Monster Mash® being one of my favorite archetypes it was fun getting to go through & rank all the Greater Daemons vs each other. While some are harder to rate than others (ie Shalaxi or Be'lakor) I think you can't go wrong with pretty much any of the GD's we have access to, even the "lesser" ones. That said I'd be interested to see how *you* guys would rank them yourselves or if you think I missed anything big with my own ratings
I have painted 6,000 points of daemons and world eaters and never played a game. I have all the major ones my local store had. Thanks to you I added 2 rendmasters to my collection. Keep up the great work!
Goddamn I hope you are as happy in your private life as you are in your videos because you deserve all the goddamn positivity you share with others to come right back at you man. Thank you for these videos. You are the most fun tier list maker on youtube by like multiple realms. Nobody makes it as fun and interesting with the visuals as you do and you have gotten me into Chaos and back into CSM and 40k in general with your videos and making it all so much easier to digest etc!!
As a newer demons player, I really appreciate all of the tier lists you’ve done for each god’s units and now their GDs. Are you going to do other videos about demons in the future? I’d love to see more!
No kidding. Especially with the Khorne stuff - it’s almost not fair for knights. I played them twice at my last RTT and honestly neither opponent really had a chance.
Helverins are pretty decent vs Daemons but it's mostly Warglaives I see & those are pretty terrible into us (as are most of the Questoris!). Being invul-less in melee certainly doesn't help! With all the terrain there is these days + the 6" deepstrike it's not always like it looks on paper - though that's just my experience, obv we all have our own takes on these kinds of things ;)
@@timeandspacemonkey I only have one fly unit (BT) and it's extremely easy for me to keep him from getting shot by the 2-3 helverins my opponent is using. He goes from being behind a wall to teleporting right in my opponent's face, and delivers a load of absolutely lethal dudes right on their doorstep. Khorne stuff is like easily AP3-AP5 so literally all successful wounds are essentially devastating. My BT and Skarbrand were doing 30-40 damage every time they activated, without saves being possible. The only durable unit in my opponents' armies were the Lancers, but if you buff bloodletters properly you can one-shot them with Dev wounds. There's not nearly enough models in a knight army to properly screen out easy-mode deepstrike charges.
On the Lord of Change, a few other YTers and tier list makers rank him low but he's super slept on. The shooting profile with enhancement is absolutely insane and is perfect for clearing screens, bodyguard units, transports, or being a core damage unit for stuff you dont want to tangle in melee with (reactive moves, fights first etc). Being able to tick flamers up to S5 is also crazy useful as you're probably taking at least one squad of them anyway and those two together give you some actual shooting in an otherwise solo melee army. Big up Big Bird
Amen!! Yeah I can't recall the last time my LoC didn't pull his weight whereas I've definitely had times my KoS bounced off a Knight or got blasted before she could do anything meaningful. Big Bird 4 Lyfe
Top tier as always man! Would love to see an ally video of what you would bring with the 500 point cap and battle line necessary units in like WE,CT,DG,CSM,and so on… Keep up the great work.
Another good thing about belakor is i find my opponent often sees him as a priority target, so they overexpose themselves to get within 18" of him, and then he takes less damage than they expect because of stealth and reroll saves of 1 against volume fire
I've been meaning to do some 'list building' videos for a good while now. Eeeventually I'll have to get around to doing it 😜 Appreciate the suggestion, I for sure was planning on mono gods but I'll need to be sure to toss in some Undivided picks too apparently
I created my own comic in middle school and I was pretty serious about it (I've always been able to draw). My new best friend that year told me the villain looked like "a Lord of Change". I didn't know what the hell that was. Later, he showed up with a metal bird dude he had painted, which was a very nice gift. And it turned out to be my very first Warhammer model. This was about 1994, and it was my entry into the hobby, full stop. I feel a bit weird not owning the current model.
Oh god I miss 90's art, especially the old-skool Heavy Metal look. I *almost* feel like that's a universal take, whenever I wear my Rogue Trader era Crimson Fists t-shirt I get comments from complete strangers on how much they dig it. 40k directly affected my drawing style though, to this day I mirror the ~gun blasts I remember seeing as a kid / almost every pistol I've ever drawn looks like a Bolt Pistol :P I never drew anything cool enough to get compared to Daemons though!
@@fatarchon keep at it and you will! the corporatization of the gaming industry destroyed the outlandish and unique styles of individual artists. The illustrators that came out of the 70's and 80's had a lot of personal flair. This was eventually stamped out by WOTC and others who attempted to homogenize the art. Now it can be difficult to recognize which individuals produced particular MTG cards because they look so similar. It's culturally criminal, what they did. The succeeding generation were discouraged from developing their own style. It's just one more unpopular move decided by large companies. That's why Gen Z love the 80s and 90s art so much. It's the same with music, movies and with perfumery, etc. People love innovation. Big companies don't want to risk investing in something new. So the pleasantly weird has all but disappeared.
@RSBurgener dude, that's so accurate it hurts. Like you said even music, gaming, film you name it, it's all gotten so... Generic. It's funny how much an old man I feel like with ye olde "music these days ain't the same!!" but in my defense I was saying that even in highschool lol. Luckily there are lots of gems hidden out there to be found but yeah, rarely if ever will you see them on a mainstream channel or whatever. At least the blatant auto-tune era seems to be done & over with 😜 I will say though, **for the most part** 40k has done well at sticking to it's roots. Like yeah the art style has definitely changed & Primaris came 'n steamrolled everything before it yada yada but it's still like 80% of what I remember it being as a kid which is astonishing vs most of the other IPs I've followed. There's a lot to complain about for sure but regardless, 40k is *still* such a great universe to get immersed in ❤️
Kairos is my favorite model in all of warhammer... it sucks that he isn't super great at what he does. I hope he gets a good rehaul or at least a buff in the next codex
Even though I rated him low, I genuinely think Kairos can still be competitive in the right circumstances (the aura can be game winning!), buuuut, yes when you start comparing him to the others he does leave a bit to be desired.. I'm in the same boat as you though, hopefully the codex gives 'em a good rework
I only have a monster mash setup due to my models. For me shalaxi is insane to deep strike 6 inch with belakor. Be'lakor deepstrikes 3 inch and shalaxi shreds any and all vehicles or characters.
I've been waiting for your next upload lol, greater daemons are some of my favorite models in the entire game so this is right up my alley. agree that GUO belongs in a tier all his own. He's crazy good
Agree with everything in this list but i rate BT a bit higher than Skarbrand but only with enhancement. Getting him to str 18 is a big breakpoint that can pop tanks open and with a GUO he can threaten predator tanks on a 2+. Plus he can consolidate and do an extra 4 ish mw. His awkward base expands his shadow aura further and can sometimes pivot it in a way that lets him multi charge and base 2 units that a circle base couldnt. By the way way your content is really entertaining. Big fan
Thank you Richie! It's a toss up with Skarbrand vs BT for sure, I do think the oval base is a kinda big downside compared to Skar's round base but he has (arguably) better abilities so I think it sorta evens out again hah. You make great points though, tbh I think it just comes down to preference in the end. Having a Flys a big deal too tho 🤔
@@fatarchon I think you mentioned it in the video but for sure a big toss up so I just run both as well! This tier list is super on point though all around I think you nailed the ranking and hit every key point there wad to make. Thanks again for being such a valued resource to Daemon players 😀
Sometimes I think, i dont overrate the big ones. In one game i lost Skarbrand and a Bloodthister against a bunch of Ctan. Maybe some bad dice rollin. But since then i try to avoid those Ctans and use our uppy downy to change the place to an area where are no Ctan. Once i just placed a blocking unit every turn to the Ctan, so they could not leave the sidefield anymore. Worked perfectly. And i think Bloodcrusher a a very good replacement unit for the big ones as damage-dealer. And they are no monsters or vehicle. No one has anit-mounted weapons. And some missions say kill something big. Well Broodcrusher don't count here again.
Had a game against chaos knights, he brought 3 bigs abominant, lancer and desecrator. Managed to lure him to split them up with guo then deepstriked behind with belakor, used his aura for shalaxi, skarbrand and bloodthirster all to get 6" charges and wiped out all 3 on turn two 😂😂 i lile to call that move the doomsday switch hahaha
@@fatarchon yeah dude we get to take what, 6 or 7 of their statlines and still be viable? 😂 I dropped belakor since the rules update and last couple of games ive brought him back to try and his aura is still really great when you dont have shadow he just feels like a waste to use as a deep strike anchor for the points still
I think Shalaxi is good but only really shines when hunting down characters so if your opponent isn't using an army with many characters then Shalaxi definitely falls behind so I think B tier is very reasonable
Whenever i see a daemons list without Belakor, it immediately raises a red flag. The player at that point is either new to the faction or a pro, no in between.
Hello. This was a very great video. Incredibly educational. If i may ask, do you think a list of Be'lakor, lord of change and Skarbrand would work well? If so, what other units should i consider taking into this kind of list. Thanks
Hey there, thank you very much for the comment! Glad you found the vid useful 😎 As for those Greater Daemons, those 3 go together very well in my experience. You can either deploy everyone on the board & use Belakor's Lone Op bubble to keep everyone protected (maybe even deployed on the line) ~or~ I'd consider reserving both Belakor + Skarbrand to use as a drop pod for a 6" charge. Mainly depends on your opponent / playstyle. As for other units, if you want a 4th Greater Daemon than a Great Unclean One would be an excellent choice to sit on an objective & hopefully soak up some attention. A Bloodthirster might be even better as he'd pair up with Skar very good. Beyond that I always recommend cheap scoring units, so Flamers, Flesh Hounds and/or Screamers. GDs will do most of the heavy lifting so you need throwaway units to do actions etc. Nurglings are a must include as well (even if just one unit). Hope that helps!!!
@@fatarchon this was very helpful. Thank you. Taking your advice into account, my current list includes: Bel, skar, Lord change, unclean, plague barers, 2x3 flamers, and a unit of flesh hounds and screamers. To finish this off should i double up on some of these units for more score power?
That's almost exactly like some of the lists I've had great results with so I think that'd be an awesome start. I'm not sure how many points you have left but I'd definitely consider a unit of Nurglings or 2 to give you some Infiltrate play (super important, esp to block out OTHER infil units). Be sure to give GUO + LOC their enhancements if you didn't already. Beyond all that, if you want more heavy hitters a Soul Grinder is incredibly point efficient & practically the same level as a GD. Otherwise I would indeed look into doubling up some of that scoring. Another blob of Screamers could work great for moveblocking or far away actions. Don't be afraid to yeet them in front of you opponent & just sit 1.1" in front of his key unit(s), even if they'll just die. The other route is some Seekers who basically do the same + give you some Scouts
@@fatarchon i have 480 points left with that lineup including enhancements.That is enough to run a soul grinder (nurgle is my fave sg variant), nurglings and some more screamers. Would it make sense to bring in some more khorne units to value from skarbrand or is it too niche to dip into an aura with such limited range. I can always finalise the list with annother nurgling and seekers or something of equivilent points
480pt, yeah you def got some options then! I usually go with Tzeentch SG for the extra AT but I've ran Nurgle as well & that Indirect can come in handy. Skar does have a very good aura but he's just as good solo. Dude is basically a heat seeking nuclear missile hah. a really fun combo to bring w/him would be Bloodletters + Bloodmaster (or Skulltaker) out of deepstrike, though you'd really want a Rendmaster to go along with them. Tbh I'd probably save that for a more Khorne focused list but give it a shot sometime! For *this* list, IF you wanted to bring some more Khorne support I'd look at Bloodcrushers OR a Bloodthirster. BCs are very resilient, very cheap & do decent damage / speed. That said for this list I'd vote BT for sure (if you want more Khorne) as, then you could DS both him + Skar while leaving Belakor on the table. Hehe basically you have a fantastic base so tbh you could run pracrically anything with those last 500pt & be fine. But remember!!! SCORING SCORING SCORING. It's not at all abnormal to be almost tabled by the end of the game but if you managed to score enough it doesn't matter. Daemons excel at that style so don't get disheartened if/when models start dropping. Use the GDs to keep your opponent busy & maximize your score with everything else.
I agree about almost everyone but I would swap Shalaxi and Be'lakor. Shalaxi is certainly overpriced but the sheer damage output she brings is awesome. She is the best duelist in the game bar none, and if played well you can just point at any of your opponent's model and simply say "dead". I don't always get 450pts worth of kills from her but very often I do, and it tends to be the 450pts my opponent doesn't want to loose. Unfortunately you have to find a way to get her around screens which limits her effectiveness. But overall it's more about the feeling, she looks awesome and feels like playing a nuke. On the other hand Be'lakor is mostly useful for the fake lone op aura he gives but that only really works on turn 1 because as daemons you don't really want to stay 18 inches away from your opponent. You don't get a lot of damage output out of him most of the time, most of the important things you'd want to kill have an invuln, I find that AP above -2 is wasted most of the time in this game. Also he's not a greater daemon technically so F tier
I love Kairos' model but it sucks that his profile is underwhelming. I just bought the unit and was kind of let down he might not pull his weight. Never thought of just building the model and agreeing with my oponents it's a LoC tho, I'll give that a try!
I agree that he's disappointing but it's only compared to the other GDs, he's still *fine* on his own + will really shine in those match ups where people go wild with strats. But yeah, could be better after he got double whammied by the nerfs (Indirect / his CP ability). For the model, yup I've ran mine as LoC prolly 95% of the time hah. Admittedly I did magnetize his loadouts so they match but tbh even with his default I doubt anyone would care or even notice. I actually recommend doing that with *all* of your GDs, give them the characters head & then magnetize the loadouts if you can. Either way, hopefully when the codex comes around he'll get some love
When it comes to bring allies they need to be self sufficient, so basically any of the ones that don't need Enhancements or to work off the Shadow. I'd prolly rank them in this order though: Rotigus, Skarbrand, Bloodthirster/KoS (tied) All the others need their enhancements to truly shine & Shalaxi costs too much to even bring. Rotigus is a pimp as an ally though, dude is cheap as chips, has a great statline & his abilities help the rest of the army win. The others are just great / resilient damage output
I'm waiting for it to get my hands on Fulgrim! 😜 Oh man & if we get sonic dreadnoughts back they're going to become one of my favorite armies hah I'm assuming we'll get a Daemons codex before EC so I'm especially curious what new kits we'll be getting. I'm not sure it'll be a refresh for some of the named options or just a random new character (we've lost a lot from the webstore.. Epidemius, Blue Scribes, Spoilpox, Changecaster etc etc)
@@fatarchonHave you heard these rumours that daemons are getting shoved into their respective chaos marine codexes and won't get a codex of their own? Or reckon it's just bs? Love your videos
I think it's BS. Feels like one of those "rumors" that started from a reddit comment hah. Belakor would've been put into the CSM Codex otherwise but he's still here. I really don't see it happening
She is indeed! A lot of tournament players still use her all the time, I might think she's a little overcosted but that doesn't means she's bad at all! Running her along with other big threats can be a good way to use her too
Personally id put shalaxi at A tier. Beutiful model and she is the first model to go in every list and id love her to be top tier but shes just to expensive. She will never leave my list because of the first game vs world eaters i played. My oppent went first tried to alpha her turn 1 with angrond which she tanked to the face going down to 8 wounds then 1 shot him back then in my turn 1 took out a deamon prince. Turn 2 angrond came back to life and wiffed so died again then she 1 shot a lord of skulls in my turn. My point is When shalaxi pops and has good targets she may a quarter of your list but she will just straight up single handily win you games esspecially vs knights.
I feel like that rumor is from a random comment on reddit that people started repeating for no reason 😜 not a single person has been able to show me a source so yeah, I don't buy it!
I believe I've seen a list that was along the lines of ~5 Greater Daemons & 2 Soul Grinders that did really well before. A list of entirely GD's could probably win an RTT with a few lucky match ups but I think you're going to really struggle with scoring (as you'd have to keep your GD's back on objectives or doing actions). You can most definitely make up the majority of your list w/them though & come out just fine. Heck that's practically the norm!
Heh I used to get confused by it too but tbh once you know his lore it makes sense! Basically Tzeentch tricked him into thinking he could overthrow Khorne of all things, so out of the blue he sucker punched him while he wasn't looking..... Khorne choked the shit out of him & drained him of pretty much everything but rage, then he smacked him so hard he flew across the Warp for a solid week & had his wings destroyed by the impact Whats funny is Khorne didn't even mind Skarbrand challenging him, in fact he almost admired it, but the fact he did it with a sneak attack / sucker punch pissed him off to no end lol. Now Skar is just a ball of rage who's desperately trying to get back into Khorne good graces with enough murder 😜 F'real I freaking LOVE Daemon lore. Sometimes I just read about random profiles in the 1d6chan wiki when I'm bored, so many fun stories. But yeah, Skar got his wings destroyed by messing with the big man himself
Monster Mash® being one of my favorite archetypes it was fun getting to go through & rank all the Greater Daemons vs each other. While some are harder to rate than others (ie Shalaxi or Be'lakor) I think you can't go wrong with pretty much any of the GD's we have access to, even the "lesser" ones. That said I'd be interested to see how *you* guys would rank them yourselves or if you think I missed anything big with my own ratings
I have painted 6,000 points of daemons and world eaters and never played a game. I have all the major ones my local store had. Thanks to you I added 2 rendmasters to my collection. Keep up the great work!
Goddamn I hope you are as happy in your private life as you are in your videos because you deserve all the goddamn positivity you share with others to come right back at you man. Thank you for these videos. You are the most fun tier list maker on youtube by like multiple realms. Nobody makes it as fun and interesting with the visuals as you do and you have gotten me into Chaos and back into CSM and 40k in general with your videos and making it all so much easier to digest etc!!
Another great video. Really appreciating your channel, especially the daemon love. Thank you.
P.S Helbane goes brrrrrrr
Appreciate the appreciation friend!! Hoping to get some more vids out soon
As a newer demons player, I really appreciate all of the tier lists you’ve done for each god’s units and now their GDs. Are you going to do other videos about demons in the future? I’d love to see more!
Most definitely! I need to cover list creation at some point, go over using them as allies etc - so there's more to come 😎
Daemons lowkey dance on knights
No kidding. Especially with the Khorne stuff - it’s almost not fair for knights. I played them twice at my last RTT and honestly neither opponent really had a chance.
What? How? The little armigers have antifly 2+ 3d shooting... knights absolutely demolish deamons, and i wish i was kidding
Helverins are pretty decent vs Daemons but it's mostly Warglaives I see & those are pretty terrible into us (as are most of the Questoris!). Being invul-less in melee certainly doesn't help! With all the terrain there is these days + the 6" deepstrike it's not always like it looks on paper - though that's just my experience, obv we all have our own takes on these kinds of things ;)
@@timeandspacemonkey I only have one fly unit (BT) and it's extremely easy for me to keep him from getting shot by the 2-3 helverins my opponent is using. He goes from being behind a wall to teleporting right in my opponent's face, and delivers a load of absolutely lethal dudes right on their doorstep.
Khorne stuff is like easily AP3-AP5 so literally all successful wounds are essentially devastating. My BT and Skarbrand were doing 30-40 damage every time they activated, without saves being possible.
The only durable unit in my opponents' armies were the Lancers, but if you buff bloodletters properly you can one-shot them with Dev wounds.
There's not nearly enough models in a knight army to properly screen out easy-mode deepstrike charges.
On the Lord of Change, a few other YTers and tier list makers rank him low but he's super slept on. The shooting profile with enhancement is absolutely insane and is perfect for clearing screens, bodyguard units, transports, or being a core damage unit for stuff you dont want to tangle in melee with (reactive moves, fights first etc). Being able to tick flamers up to S5 is also crazy useful as you're probably taking at least one squad of them anyway and those two together give you some actual shooting in an otherwise solo melee army. Big up Big Bird
Amen!! Yeah I can't recall the last time my LoC didn't pull his weight whereas I've definitely had times my KoS bounced off a Knight or got blasted before she could do anything meaningful. Big Bird 4 Lyfe
Perfect timing again dude. I’m doing the monster mash on Friday against Imperial Knights. Always hyped to see your take on the best faction in 40k 🤟🏻
Ohoo, best of luck brother!! I steamrolled my last IK opponent so I'll try to channel some of that dark energy your way 😈
Future content? Whatever you post I’ll watch it man. I love these videos so much 😂
Top tier as always man! Would love to see an ally video of what you would bring with the 500 point cap and battle line necessary units in like WE,CT,DG,CSM,and so on… Keep up the great work.
Another good thing about belakor is i find my opponent often sees him as a priority target, so they overexpose themselves to get within 18" of him, and then he takes less damage than they expect because of stealth and reroll saves of 1 against volume fire
Just started daemons and these videos are great :)
Thank you Vulkan, there's not nearly enough Daemons content out there so I'm happy to help!
You should make a video theory crafting your perfect undivided chaos deamons list.
I've been meaning to do some 'list building' videos for a good while now. Eeeventually I'll have to get around to doing it 😜 Appreciate the suggestion, I for sure was planning on mono gods but I'll need to be sure to toss in some Undivided picks too apparently
@@fatarchonplease do!! I really want some undevided advice, cuz I have no interest in monogod, but all the lists and videos are for that
@fatarchon I love to see a list, I haven't played since 7th, and I ran Tau back then. I'm trying to get into demons in 10th
@@birdganginc you should, it’s a thinking man’s army
@zacharyrosmanitz7547 they seem really fun. But my friend plays greyknights. Do they hard counter daemons in 10th?
I created my own comic in middle school and I was pretty serious about it (I've always been able to draw). My new best friend that year told me the villain looked like "a Lord of Change". I didn't know what the hell that was. Later, he showed up with a metal bird dude he had painted, which was a very nice gift. And it turned out to be my very first Warhammer model. This was about 1994, and it was my entry into the hobby, full stop. I feel a bit weird not owning the current model.
Oh god I miss 90's art, especially the old-skool Heavy Metal look. I *almost* feel like that's a universal take, whenever I wear my Rogue Trader era Crimson Fists t-shirt I get comments from complete strangers on how much they dig it. 40k directly affected my drawing style though, to this day I mirror the ~gun blasts I remember seeing as a kid / almost every pistol I've ever drawn looks like a Bolt Pistol :P I never drew anything cool enough to get compared to Daemons though!
@@fatarchon keep at it and you will!
the corporatization of the gaming industry destroyed the outlandish and unique styles of individual artists. The illustrators that came out of the 70's and 80's had a lot of personal flair. This was eventually stamped out by WOTC and others who attempted to homogenize the art. Now it can be difficult to recognize which individuals produced particular MTG cards because they look so similar. It's culturally criminal, what they did. The succeeding generation were discouraged from developing their own style. It's just one more unpopular move decided by large companies. That's why Gen Z love the 80s and 90s art so much. It's the same with music, movies and with perfumery, etc. People love innovation. Big companies don't want to risk investing in something new. So the pleasantly weird has all but disappeared.
@RSBurgener dude, that's so accurate it hurts. Like you said even music, gaming, film you name it, it's all gotten so... Generic. It's funny how much an old man I feel like with ye olde "music these days ain't the same!!" but in my defense I was saying that even in highschool lol. Luckily there are lots of gems hidden out there to be found but yeah, rarely if ever will you see them on a mainstream channel or whatever. At least the blatant auto-tune era seems to be done & over with 😜
I will say though, **for the most part** 40k has done well at sticking to it's roots. Like yeah the art style has definitely changed & Primaris came 'n steamrolled everything before it yada yada but it's still like 80% of what I remember it being as a kid which is astonishing vs most of the other IPs I've followed. There's a lot to complain about for sure but regardless, 40k is *still* such a great universe to get immersed in ❤️
Kairos is my favorite model in all of warhammer... it sucks that he isn't super great at what he does. I hope he gets a good rehaul or at least a buff in the next codex
Even though I rated him low, I genuinely think Kairos can still be competitive in the right circumstances (the aura can be game winning!), buuuut, yes when you start comparing him to the others he does leave a bit to be desired.. I'm in the same boat as you though, hopefully the codex gives 'em a good rework
@@fatarchon I mean honestly, I just play him as a LOD. His model is toooo good to NOT take him imo
That's exactly what I do haha, shoot of give my LoC 4 heads if I could!
Our favorite overweight archon delivers again.
Cheers, your channel is a godsend from the chaos gods themselves!
I only have a monster mash setup due to my models. For me shalaxi is insane to deep strike 6 inch with belakor. Be'lakor deepstrikes 3 inch and shalaxi shreds any and all vehicles or characters.
I've been waiting for your next upload lol, greater daemons are some of my favorite models in the entire game so this is right up my alley.
agree that GUO belongs in a tier all his own. He's crazy good
Yeah I took a mini-vacation / had some busy weekends the last few weeks but I should be back to our regular schedule :P
Agree with everything in this list but i rate BT a bit higher than Skarbrand but only with enhancement. Getting him to str 18 is a big breakpoint that can pop tanks open and with a GUO he can threaten predator tanks on a 2+. Plus he can consolidate and do an extra 4 ish mw. His awkward base expands his shadow aura further and can sometimes pivot it in a way that lets him multi charge and base 2 units that a circle base couldnt.
By the way way your content is really entertaining. Big fan
Thank you Richie! It's a toss up with Skarbrand vs BT for sure, I do think the oval base is a kinda big downside compared to Skar's round base but he has (arguably) better abilities so I think it sorta evens out again hah. You make great points though, tbh I think it just comes down to preference in the end. Having a Flys a big deal too tho 🤔
@@fatarchon I think you mentioned it in the video but for sure a big toss up so I just run both as well! This tier list is super on point though all around I think you nailed the ranking and hit every key point there wad to make. Thanks again for being such a valued resource to Daemon players 😀
Shalaxi is great but you're required to build your list around them or they falter. B tier is perfect for that reason.
Lord of Change has been my MVP all edition, his bolt does incredible work against any sort 10ish toughness unit, like dreadnaughts or wardogs
Sometimes I think, i dont overrate the big ones.
In one game i lost Skarbrand and a Bloodthister against a bunch of Ctan. Maybe some bad dice rollin. But since then i try to avoid those Ctans and use our uppy downy to change the place to an area where are no Ctan.
Once i just placed a blocking unit every turn to the Ctan, so they could not leave the sidefield anymore. Worked perfectly.
And i think Bloodcrusher a a very good replacement unit for the big ones as damage-dealer. And they are no monsters or vehicle. No one has anit-mounted weapons. And some missions say kill something big. Well Broodcrusher don't count here again.
Had a game against chaos knights, he brought 3 bigs abominant, lancer and desecrator. Managed to lure him to split them up with guo then deepstriked behind with belakor, used his aura for shalaxi, skarbrand and bloodthirster all to get 6" charges and wiped out all 3 on turn two 😂😂 i lile to call that move the doomsday switch hahaha
Ah yes, ye olde "nothing personnel, kid" deepstrike method hah. I almost feel bad for Knight players when I bring my Daemons 😜
@@fatarchon yeah dude we get to take what, 6 or 7 of their statlines and still be viable? 😂
I dropped belakor since the rules update and last couple of games ive brought him back to try and his aura is still really great when you dont have shadow he just feels like a waste to use as a deep strike anchor for the points still
I think Shalaxi is good but only really shines when hunting down characters so if your opponent isn't using an army with many characters then Shalaxi definitely falls behind so I think B tier is very reasonable
Whenever i see a daemons list without Belakor, it immediately raises a red flag. The player at that point is either new to the faction or a pro, no in between.
Hello. This was a very great video. Incredibly educational. If i may ask, do you think a list of Be'lakor, lord of change and Skarbrand would work well? If so, what other units should i consider taking into this kind of list. Thanks
Hey there, thank you very much for the comment! Glad you found the vid useful 😎 As for those Greater Daemons, those 3 go together very well in my experience. You can either deploy everyone on the board & use Belakor's Lone Op bubble to keep everyone protected (maybe even deployed on the line) ~or~ I'd consider reserving both Belakor + Skarbrand to use as a drop pod for a 6" charge. Mainly depends on your opponent / playstyle. As for other units, if you want a 4th Greater Daemon than a Great Unclean One would be an excellent choice to sit on an objective & hopefully soak up some attention. A Bloodthirster might be even better as he'd pair up with Skar very good. Beyond that I always recommend cheap scoring units, so Flamers, Flesh Hounds and/or Screamers. GDs will do most of the heavy lifting so you need throwaway units to do actions etc. Nurglings are a must include as well (even if just one unit). Hope that helps!!!
@@fatarchon this was very helpful. Thank you. Taking your advice into account, my current list includes: Bel, skar, Lord change, unclean, plague barers, 2x3 flamers, and a unit of flesh hounds and screamers. To finish this off should i double up on some of these units for more score power?
That's almost exactly like some of the lists I've had great results with so I think that'd be an awesome start. I'm not sure how many points you have left but I'd definitely consider a unit of Nurglings or 2 to give you some Infiltrate play (super important, esp to block out OTHER infil units). Be sure to give GUO + LOC their enhancements if you didn't already. Beyond all that, if you want more heavy hitters a Soul Grinder is incredibly point efficient & practically the same level as a GD. Otherwise I would indeed look into doubling up some of that scoring. Another blob of Screamers could work great for moveblocking or far away actions. Don't be afraid to yeet them in front of you opponent & just sit 1.1" in front of his key unit(s), even if they'll just die. The other route is some Seekers who basically do the same + give you some Scouts
@@fatarchon i have 480 points left with that lineup including enhancements.That is enough to run a soul grinder (nurgle is my fave sg variant), nurglings and some more screamers. Would it make sense to bring in some more khorne units to value from skarbrand or is it too niche to dip into an aura with such limited range. I can always finalise the list with annother nurgling and seekers or something of equivilent points
480pt, yeah you def got some options then! I usually go with Tzeentch SG for the extra AT but I've ran Nurgle as well & that Indirect can come in handy. Skar does have a very good aura but he's just as good solo. Dude is basically a heat seeking nuclear missile hah. a really fun combo to bring w/him would be Bloodletters + Bloodmaster (or Skulltaker) out of deepstrike, though you'd really want a Rendmaster to go along with them. Tbh I'd probably save that for a more Khorne focused list but give it a shot sometime! For *this* list, IF you wanted to bring some more Khorne support I'd look at Bloodcrushers OR a Bloodthirster. BCs are very resilient, very cheap & do decent damage / speed. That said for this list I'd vote BT for sure (if you want more Khorne) as, then you could DS both him + Skar while leaving Belakor on the table. Hehe basically you have a fantastic base so tbh you could run pracrically anything with those last 500pt & be fine. But remember!!! SCORING SCORING SCORING. It's not at all abnormal to be almost tabled by the end of the game but if you managed to score enough it doesn't matter. Daemons excel at that style so don't get disheartened if/when models start dropping. Use the GDs to keep your opponent busy & maximize your score with everything else.
totally agree on the Great unclean one :)
I agree about almost everyone but I would swap Shalaxi and Be'lakor. Shalaxi is certainly overpriced but the sheer damage output she brings is awesome. She is the best duelist in the game bar none, and if played well you can just point at any of your opponent's model and simply say "dead". I don't always get 450pts worth of kills from her but very often I do, and it tends to be the 450pts my opponent doesn't want to loose. Unfortunately you have to find a way to get her around screens which limits her effectiveness. But overall it's more about the feeling, she looks awesome and feels like playing a nuke.
On the other hand Be'lakor is mostly useful for the fake lone op aura he gives but that only really works on turn 1 because as daemons you don't really want to stay 18 inches away from your opponent. You don't get a lot of damage output out of him most of the time, most of the important things you'd want to kill have an invuln, I find that AP above -2 is wasted most of the time in this game. Also he's not a greater daemon technically so F tier
I love Kairos' model but it sucks that his profile is underwhelming. I just bought the unit and was kind of let down he might not pull his weight.
Never thought of just building the model and agreeing with my oponents it's a LoC tho, I'll give that a try!
I agree that he's disappointing but it's only compared to the other GDs, he's still *fine* on his own + will really shine in those match ups where people go wild with strats. But yeah, could be better after he got double whammied by the nerfs (Indirect / his CP ability). For the model, yup I've ran mine as LoC prolly 95% of the time hah. Admittedly I did magnetize his loadouts so they match but tbh even with his default I doubt anyone would care or even notice. I actually recommend doing that with *all* of your GDs, give them the characters head & then magnetize the loadouts if you can. Either way, hopefully when the codex comes around he'll get some love
Just curious, if you were to rank them based on their ability ally with CSM, TA, DG, etc. which would be a+ or s tier?
When it comes to bring allies they need to be self sufficient, so basically any of the ones that don't need Enhancements or to work off the Shadow. I'd prolly rank them in this order though:
Rotigus, Skarbrand, Bloodthirster/KoS (tied)
All the others need their enhancements to truly shine & Shalaxi costs too much to even bring. Rotigus is a pimp as an ally though, dude is cheap as chips, has a great statline & his abilities help the rest of the army win. The others are just great / resilient damage output
I'm waiting for emperor children to get a codex so I can build slaneesh
I'm waiting for it to get my hands on Fulgrim! 😜 Oh man & if we get sonic dreadnoughts back they're going to become one of my favorite armies hah
I'm assuming we'll get a Daemons codex before EC so I'm especially curious what new kits we'll be getting. I'm not sure it'll be a refresh for some of the named options or just a random new character (we've lost a lot from the webstore.. Epidemius, Blue Scribes, Spoilpox, Changecaster etc etc)
@@fatarchon we need snake daddy
@@fatarchonHave you heard these rumours that daemons are getting shoved into their respective chaos marine codexes and won't get a codex of their own? Or reckon it's just bs? Love your videos
I think it's BS. Feels like one of those "rumors" that started from a reddit comment hah. Belakor would've been put into the CSM Codex otherwise but he's still here. I really don't see it happening
Is shalaxi helbane compatible with a chaos daemon army? I have soul grinder , prince on foot and belakor and skarbrand so far plus a cp
She is indeed! A lot of tournament players still use her all the time, I might think she's a little overcosted but that doesn't means she's bad at all! Running her along with other big threats can be a good way to use her too
Personally id put shalaxi at A tier. Beutiful model and she is the first model to go in every list and id love her to be top tier but shes just to expensive.
She will never leave my list because of the first game vs world eaters i played. My oppent went first tried to alpha her turn 1 with angrond which she tanked to the face going down to 8 wounds then 1 shot him back then in my turn 1 took out a deamon prince. Turn 2 angrond came back to life and wiffed so died again then she 1 shot a lord of skulls in my turn.
My point is When shalaxi pops and has good targets she may a quarter of your list but she will just straight up single handily win you games esspecially vs knights.
ITS BE’LEKORE!!!! idk what anyone thinks. He is the coolest looking. Nah he’d win
Its a bummer you cant ally shalaxi into CSM because the battline rule. Her and deamonettes are over 500 points.
Love your vids as a new daemons collector… but what do you make of the rumours about daemons codex being axed this edition? 😢
I feel like that rumor is from a random comment on reddit that people started repeating for no reason 😜 not a single person has been able to show me a source so yeah, I don't buy it!
It's been around since 6th edition. Don't believe it until GW says otherwise
@@fatarchon really hope you are both right!!
There is any competitive list of 2000 points with greater deamons or is not viable for pariah nexus?
I believe I've seen a list that was along the lines of ~5 Greater Daemons & 2 Soul Grinders that did really well before. A list of entirely GD's could probably win an RTT with a few lucky match ups but I think you're going to really struggle with scoring (as you'd have to keep your GD's back on objectives or doing actions). You can most definitely make up the majority of your list w/them though & come out just fine. Heck that's practically the norm!
It makes Zero sense that Skarbrand does not have fly… the model literally has wings 😂
Gotta love GW 😂
Heh I used to get confused by it too but tbh once you know his lore it makes sense! Basically Tzeentch tricked him into thinking he could overthrow Khorne of all things, so out of the blue he sucker punched him while he wasn't looking..... Khorne choked the shit out of him & drained him of pretty much everything but rage, then he smacked him so hard he flew across the Warp for a solid week & had his wings destroyed by the impact
Whats funny is Khorne didn't even mind Skarbrand challenging him, in fact he almost admired it, but the fact he did it with a sneak attack / sucker punch pissed him off to no end lol. Now Skar is just a ball of rage who's desperately trying to get back into Khorne good graces with enough murder 😜
F'real I freaking LOVE Daemon lore. Sometimes I just read about random profiles in the 1d6chan wiki when I'm bored, so many fun stories. But yeah, Skar got his wings destroyed by messing with the big man himself