Very good standalone video on double-shield, thanks for this work Seibrik! As a side note, when I labbed footstool out of shield with Joker (rainstorm OoS specifically), I figured out what works best for me, and I wanted to share this out here. To rainstorm out-of-shield with Joker, here is what works for me: 1) I double shield (R + B) then hold forward 2) I wait for my shield to be attacked 3) Once the opponent hits my shield, while holding forward, I release B and tap jump (Y) to short-hop 4) Flicker L (jump) again to footstool, and release forward to footstool straight up (for gun-down) 5) Release R (shield) and double-tap B and input down to do a fast-transitioned gun-down 6) Hold forward to follow your opponent while rainstorming TLDR; I do R + B + forward, then my opponent hits my shield, and I do release B and R, tap Y, flicker L, release forward, double-tap B, input down then forward. So I basically use shield + special for double-shielding, and two jump buttons (Y and L) to do the footstool, I find it easier than double-tapping X or Y, and it's also easier to transition to double-tap B for fast rainstorm. I also release both B and R in the end, specifically as I could not rainstorm while holding a shield button for some reasons. Hope anybody finds this useful!
I know tap jump players say “IDJ is easy I’ve being doing it this whole time”. But when in reality, tournament I never see it used the way it can actually be used to change the game. Captain Falcon, Mario, WHERE IS IT? Nobody can tell me this crap shouldn’t be erasing stocks because it absolutely should. So I await “20XX” but for Footstool, IDJ meta and everything else meta
For the easier full momentum hops and footstools, you only need to double shield WHILE you're inputting the stick direction. There's no reason to continue holding it until your shield gets hit. Anyway, full momentum back hop seems really useful for Marth (Shield Breaker), ZSS (Paralyzer, Plasma Whip), Lucas (PK Fire), Hero (Zap, Zapple), and Ridley (Skewer). Byleth and Sephiroth also get sweetspot fair/bair OoS.
Not sure if this has already been posted, but for ppl using a shoulder button for jump (for attack canceled aerials and such) and use B to double shield, just move the stick in the direction you want to jump, release B, then jump. You'll have full drift since the tech is the same, just performed differently👍
Appreciate the more condensed format! I think single shield allows full drift OoS (without rolls) just fine considering you can cancel shield release anyway, but the IDJ OoS seems very interesting for stuff like Lucas snake dashing. 24:49 single shield -> full drift footstool is actually quite easy on block as you can drop it within the shield hitlag/stun frames. Even if you drop a tad too early you get the benefit of your parry frames.
The shield release to fish for parries while looking for standard OOS options is something i've tried implemented in to my game with a few characters that have easy to option select options u may want. e.g. chrom can input release shield>jab>up b and if the parry comes out he gets a jab to start a combo and if u get hit on shield without parrying u get an UP b OOS which while not the safest button has insane range to catch people trying to space aerials or abuse their frame data to attack u again as u are exitting shield. Most characters have some option to option select a tilt they may want to combo start with and then option select an aerial or jump if they whiff the parry if they have no especially useful special move for the parry option select. Notable examples are snake and megaman who may want to fish for parries to kill with up tilt but not want to commit to the button or risk reacting slowly.
Anyone else notice if you do shield + B and hold a jump, and get your shield hit it no longer lets you jump by releasing B? I have a shoulder button set to special, and when I try normally the jump comes out but NOT when my shield gets hit
I know this isn't your fault, but wow, this tech solves basically none of the problems I'd hoped it would solve. Accidental zairs? Still a thing; zair characters still eat shit. Buffered fullhop aerials? Still impossible. I also genuinely don't understand why you call them "full drift aerials"; that to me implies full CONTROL of your drift, which would include retreating fair, advancing bair, and nairing in any direction. Instead, we now have the revolutionary tech of being able to get full forward drift when holding "Forward+A"; wow, what a game-changer.
Ultimate players are really good at randomly deciding when they deem an old ass technique "new." Look at peach players with ADC combos, or Snasen with IDJ combos. Those things have existed since 64/Melee.
@@Sh1v3rIZAE in fairness, this technique hinges on the shield-tilt macro, which is one of Ultimate's few GOOD innovations. Although it would've been so much BETTER if shield-dropping were still in the game.
This is really cool, but I'm confused. 21:43 ish... (Yoshi) does this mean that the Yoshi goes immediately from shield to armour? Or are there frames Yoshi can still be put into knockback? For Pyra's segment, how many jumps are input between the first jump and the one that actually causes the footstool? Does this mean we only need to input jump and double jump? Or more than that? Sorry😅 this was a very helpful video, I came from gimr's thing-I feel this gave me a better understanding and had more applications that were relevant.✌🏻
Hey, tysm for this video ! Probably overly specific but would you know if mii brawler benefits from this regarding the footstool part ? Or do I have to be content of my OP frame 3 up b oos ?
I think characters with Z-airs deserved a special mention here, because stuff like the macros or the wavedash quite simply won't work. The results is a quite laughable z-air out of shield. But even then, those "perfect" wavedashes still need perfect timing when releasing shield and then jumping, or they won't work, making the tech... Not really a tech, that's just how it works. You got to let go of shield, then press it again while jumping. The only thing is that you can hold down back/forward preemptively, but that also means tilting your shield down, which isn't something you usually want unless you are on a platform above somebody. Another thing that got me confused was this 4:57, are you tapping just once while getting rapid-jabbed, or repeatedly?
I have a question. It is known that when you shield and then press (Up on analog + Z at the same time) you get a F1 upSmash. Does it work being double lock on shield, or you just cannot do it and instead just grab given that you press Z??? Cool tech and great video.
@@Seibrik no, you can't get a frame 1 up smash OOS with a double shield. You'll only grab if you press up and Z in a double shield Given this it limits it to only to FOS/aerial or grab for a reversal on shield. Instead of having all the options at once.
Very good standalone video on double-shield, thanks for this work Seibrik!
As a side note, when I labbed footstool out of shield with Joker (rainstorm OoS specifically), I figured out what works best for me, and I wanted to share this out here.
To rainstorm out-of-shield with Joker, here is what works for me:
1) I double shield (R + B) then hold forward
2) I wait for my shield to be attacked
3) Once the opponent hits my shield, while holding forward, I release B and tap jump (Y) to short-hop
4) Flicker L (jump) again to footstool, and release forward to footstool straight up (for gun-down)
5) Release R (shield) and double-tap B and input down to do a fast-transitioned gun-down
6) Hold forward to follow your opponent while rainstorming
TLDR; I do R + B + forward, then my opponent hits my shield, and I do release B and R, tap Y, flicker L, release forward, double-tap B, input down then forward.
So I basically use shield + special for double-shielding, and two jump buttons (Y and L) to do the footstool, I find it easier than double-tapping X or Y, and it's also easier to transition to double-tap B for fast rainstorm.
I also release both B and R in the end, specifically as I could not rainstorm while holding a shield button for some reasons.
Hope anybody finds this useful!
Today I learned there’s a fat way to gun down. This is crazy to me thanks!!
I know tap jump players say “IDJ is easy I’ve being doing it this whole time”. But when in reality, tournament I never see it used the way it can actually be used to change the game. Captain Falcon, Mario, WHERE IS IT? Nobody can tell me this crap shouldn’t be erasing stocks because it absolutely should. So I await “20XX” but for Footstool, IDJ meta and everything else meta
There's a decent amount of IDJ usage, it's hard to see with all the particles sometimes.
I agree with @Moose7701. Plus, watching Kurama, Tilde, and Sean can help to name a few. They're HUGE on IDJ 👍
That buffer system is so bad, it's not happening man. Game would be insane with proper controls but hey onto smash 6
For the easier full momentum hops and footstools, you only need to double shield WHILE you're inputting the stick direction. There's no reason to continue holding it until your shield gets hit.
Anyway, full momentum back hop seems really useful for Marth (Shield Breaker), ZSS (Paralyzer, Plasma Whip), Lucas (PK Fire), Hero (Zap, Zapple), and Ridley (Skewer). Byleth and Sephiroth also get sweetspot fair/bair OoS.
Not sure if this has already been posted, but for ppl using a shoulder button for jump (for attack canceled aerials and such) and use B to double shield, just move the stick in the direction you want to jump, release B, then jump. You'll have full drift since the tech is the same, just performed differently👍
Appreciate the more condensed format! I think single shield allows full drift OoS (without rolls) just fine considering you can cancel shield release anyway, but the IDJ OoS seems very interesting for stuff like Lucas snake dashing.
24:49 single shield -> full drift footstool is actually quite easy on block as you can drop it within the shield hitlag/stun frames. Even if you drop a tad too early you get the benefit of your parry frames.
The shield release to fish for parries while looking for standard OOS options is something i've tried implemented in to my game with a few characters that have easy to option select options u may want.
e.g. chrom can input release shield>jab>up b and if the parry comes out he gets a jab to start a combo and if u get hit on shield without parrying u get an UP b OOS which while not the safest button has insane range to catch people trying to space aerials or abuse their frame data to attack u again as u are exitting shield.
Most characters have some option to option select a tilt they may want to combo start with and then option select an aerial or jump if they whiff the parry if they have no especially useful special move for the parry option select. Notable examples are snake and megaman who may want to fish for parries to kill with up tilt but not want to commit to the button or risk reacting slowly.
Hi why should we use the grab button for the wavedash instead of the shield button we just released ?
15:08 can't you buffer the z drop OOS with full drift? Because here it's not a zdrop OOS at all, it is supposed to be frame 4
So I'm practicing Wavedashing and most of the time I'm Bair or Fairing every time I try to do Jump + Grab
Came from GimR, good Stuff!
this is sick
be me hearing "perfect wavedash oos" and then hearing "jump + grab" and remembering i play luigi
I recommend trying it out anyway maybe it still reads the air Dodge. I can test later to confirm
Anyone else notice if you do shield + B and hold a jump, and get your shield hit it no longer lets you jump by releasing B?
I have a shoulder button set to special, and when I try normally the jump comes out but NOT when my shield gets hit
NVM it was addressed :0
so that's how they turn-around grab out of shield
Well I guess this is better than dropping a whole ass 1 hour podcast over a tech in a childrens party game, now it's only around half of that! 😄
with time stamps! :D
I know this isn't your fault, but wow, this tech solves basically none of the problems I'd hoped it would solve. Accidental zairs? Still a thing; zair characters still eat shit. Buffered fullhop aerials? Still impossible. I also genuinely don't understand why you call them "full drift aerials"; that to me implies full CONTROL of your drift, which would include retreating fair, advancing bair, and nairing in any direction. Instead, we now have the revolutionary tech of being able to get full forward drift when holding "Forward+A"; wow, what a game-changer.
Karen
@@2Kaleb Why I NEVER! I demand to see your manager.
Ultimate players are really good at randomly deciding when they deem an old ass technique "new." Look at peach players with ADC combos, or Snasen with IDJ combos. Those things have existed since 64/Melee.
@@Sh1v3rIZAE in fairness, this technique hinges on the shield-tilt macro, which is one of Ultimate's few GOOD innovations. Although it would've been so much BETTER if shield-dropping were still in the game.
This is really cool, but I'm confused. 21:43 ish... (Yoshi) does this mean that the Yoshi goes immediately from shield to armour? Or are there frames Yoshi can still be put into knockback? For Pyra's segment, how many jumps are input between the first jump and the one that actually causes the footstool? Does this mean we only need to input jump and double jump? Or more than that? Sorry😅 this was a very helpful video, I came from gimr's thing-I feel this gave me a better understanding and had more applications that were relevant.✌🏻
You still have to go through jumpsquat, so 3 frame window between shield and armor
Hey, tysm for this video ! Probably overly specific but would you know if mii brawler benefits from this regarding the footstool part ? Or do I have to be content of my OP frame 3 up b oos ?
Only thing might be fs fmp on some characters but it doesn’t feel real. I want to experiment with fs fortnight flash instead
@@SeibrikTangentially related
if fs up b happens to work, would i be better off trying to hit confirm with fs or should i just raw up b
I think characters with Z-airs deserved a special mention here, because stuff like the macros or the wavedash quite simply won't work. The results is a quite laughable z-air out of shield. But even then, those "perfect" wavedashes still need perfect timing when releasing shield and then jumping, or they won't work, making the tech... Not really a tech, that's just how it works. You got to let go of shield, then press it again while jumping. The only thing is that you can hold down back/forward preemptively, but that also means tilting your shield down, which isn't something you usually want unless you are on a platform above somebody. Another thing that got me confused was this 4:57, are you tapping just once while getting rapid-jabbed, or repeatedly?
Did gimr steal this?
Yesh
:3c (idk)
In Gimr's video he gave credit to Sebrik.
I have a question. It is known that when you shield and then press (Up on analog + Z at the same time) you get a F1 upSmash. Does it work being double lock on shield, or you just cannot do it and instead just grab given that you press Z???
Cool tech and great video.
Im not sure! Try it out and report back!
@@Seibrik no, you can't get a frame 1 up smash OOS with a double shield.
You'll only grab if you press up and Z in a double shield
Given this it limits it to only to FOS/aerial or grab for a reversal on shield. Instead of having all the options at once.
fwiw I get the fs better as sh macro x2 from fshielding
T
Absolutely amazing video, will revolutionise how I use shield in every game. Thank you so much. Especially for the better footstool. Joker for life :)