I found evidence online that the "directionality" of USB-C cables behaviour is intended with USB tester. What I found is this: "It's due to one CC line changing roles to VCONN. If you 'flip' it in the middle with the tester, PD negotiation won't work. The device end shouldn't matter, assuming the devices implement USB-C properly." I think it makes sense, the USB-C pinout is not identical on each side, but it's designed to be plugged both ways. The protocol configures the lines according to HOW the cable is plugged. If you swap the cable AFTER the USB tester, well the cable stops working. Very interesting! I'm also reading that cables have an "e-marker" in them to tell the power supply/computer how much power they're able to sustain so the wrong cable - or worst, a passive one - will affect the max power. A passive cable in particular is limited to 3A (63W at 21V). What COULD be happen is that a cable rated - say - 100W is used between the PSU and the USB tester and a cable rated 60W is used between the tester and the device. The power supply would output 100W and the 60W cable might get damaged. I didn't smoke those cables in my tests but I should have probably be more careful. The tester has a function to "read" the e-marker and display the maximum power they're rated for. When NOT using a USB-tester, the system should be bullet-proof as it will self-limit itself based on the e-marker. Super-interesting!
@@jeremywh7 interesting, I wonder if it's just a bad implementation of USB-C as I understand the devices have to configure themselves to make sure the wires are connected as expected!
@@jeremywh7For devices that only accept 5 volts, the device is supposed to link a certain pin with a resistor. This lets the PD supply know that it should output a constant 5 volts without further communication. If it doesn't do this, the power supply won't do anything as it doesn't "know" a device is connected. Giving a device power that isn't expecting it yet could cause problems in some cases.
Strictly speaking 60 watt cables actually have no e-markers. The lack of one is what signifies the 60 watt rating. It must have a chip to allow powers above 60W.
Thanks for re-uploading this. As you explained the first go-round, folks can make mistakes - it's permitted. What's important is what you do when you find a mistake. Well done!
The voltage or charge on the tip of the iron is more than enough to damage JFETs, MOSFETs, ICs and even BJTs! I experienced this many years ago with an ungrounded tip of a Weller soldering iron, while soldering small MOSFETs. Often a resistor of 100 kOhm between tip and (ESD-)ground is enough to solve the issue.
31:23 - Fnirsi/kaiweets have screwing part for heating element, screw O ring terminal with earth wire there. T12 tips can be used also on Fnirsi, but I had to make aluminum part of 42mm to screw it on device. Now I have all range of tips. Edit: There is a video on my channel for explanation.
Well, yes, I guess it's doable. Not the best to have a wire coming out of the FRONT of the iron! :) Interesting to hear about the T12 tips :) Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 I actually just recorded video now. Check on my channel or search for "Fnirsi HS-01 modification T12 tip and battery tip". One more thing that I have done to my Fnirsi HS-01 is that I power it from 12V Bosch screwdriver battery.
Which aluminum part are you exactly referring to and how exactly did you modify it? I‘m asking as I actually bought the kaiweets one and I think that being limited to just two companies for replacement absolutely su3ks. Admittedly however, it’s the first time I have a cartridge-type soldering iron.
I have a Miniware TS-101 type iron and I found that it also had about 90v AC on the tip, however I did read the manual and it does have an earthing point and with that in use, I see maybe a few mV AC, so quite a difference, so definitely a consideration when purchasing this type of iron. Very interesting video for sure.
Absolutely! I know people using ungrounded irons with no issues. But grounded makes it safer for sure. Amazing that the TS-101 has the feature - so the Kaiweets is the black sheep here! Kaiweets actually confirmed me it's "by design". Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 By design? That seems to be a bit of a cut and run statement... I know there's no current flowing but it seems you'd want to follow what other manufacturers are doing and at least offer it as an option. I also wear an earthing strap for myself these days too just to be 100% sure I'm not going to damage anything I'm working on.
I tend to get shocked by everything particularly in winter when the heating is on so I religiously wear my earthing strap when touching electronics! Yes, Kaiweets' statement was debatable but after debating for a while about that power supply I didn't feel like insisting :)
@@tony359 Yeah, I get your point re the power supply. Incidentally it was your original video that put me on to the voltage at the tip of the iron and why I went with earthing with my TS-101, so thanks for the great content 😁
In my mind, anything that doesn't support the JBC tips is a no-go. The original JBC tips are not **that** expensive all things considered and they last a really long time. I'd be happy to learn about something better but so far I haven't found it. Also for power supplies, a lot of them support a peak power that is higher than the rating for continuous loads. Great video, thanks!
I purchased quite a few genuine HAKKO tips over time and they're all still working 100%. The JBC will outlast many other tools I have - though some seem to be a bit "tired" already, I need to look into that. Anyways, I see your point and I agree. Thanks for watching!
It seems that the Fnirsi HS-02 is also using the same tips as the JBC. @tony359 Another test with the Fnirsi HS-02? 🤣 The full kit with 100W power supply is about 85$.
These videos are fantastic! I chose my current hakko knockoff purely based on the "creepage" and "clearance" of the pictures of the power supply. (With a big thanks to Big Clive's channel for tearing down cheap DC supplies.)
Yes, I'd be scared to open those PSU's I was sent. I've seen videos where they found counterweights inside to make them feel "good quality"... |Thanks for watching!
Hi Tony, i know this is already a older video, but correct me if i am wrong here, but your Fluke 117 can't measure µA, the Fluke 116 does well. That's the reason your meter showed zero. Normally when there is a leakage voltage present due the safety capacitor(s), there is also current in the µA range present.
@@tony359 , good question. I think every leakage current is too much, but it is quicker said then done to get rid of it. Arround 5 years ago i purchased a secondhand digital Atten 60Mhz scope, and after prior reading about doing mains measurings, that you could blow up your scope, and that lifting the ground pin could prevent this (which i don't recommend) what "old skool" technicians recommend on some forums. I was then experimenting with the ground lifted to my scope. During these tests i measured arround 80V with µA current between the negative part of the BNC connectors of the scope and the ground wire of the mains grid, this was caused by the safety capacitors on the power input of the scope which normally are connected to ground. I was testing if this 80V with µA current could do any damage, and placed a 5 mm white LED between the ground of the scope and the ground of the mains grid. This LED was glowing and worked for a few minutes and then died. In my opinion, such a LED is more sturdy then say a Mosfet or other sensitive electronic component, so even it is low current, it can damage electronic components. This leakage current can sometimes be removed by a direct connection to earth, like on a scope, but not every device is developed the same way to do this safely, like you discovered when you soldered on a grounded circuit in one of your soldering station reviews. So a low impedance connection is not always possible to get rid of this leakage current, but you can use high impedance connection like 500K or 1Mohm, is can sometimes reduce this leakage voltage and current for more then 50% to a much safer value.
I'd agree that "zero voltage and zero leakage" is the only acceptable values :) Yes, I was also told by some old-school engineers about the ground trick. In the end I bought some differential probes :)
The Aixun? Yes, I show that in the video. The sound is just the physical representation of current flowing. No current = the speaker coil does not move.
Excellent review! I hadn't even thought about tip grounding before you mentioned this topic. I had been considering the Fnirsi HS-02, and this one appears to be the same thing in a different brand name. Price is about the same as well.
Hi Tony! I didn't go through all of comments, so maybe I'm repeating the answer. Anyway, the voltage is appearing because you're measuring two different potential points but not in the same or closed circuit, that's why there is no current flowing. Current always flows in a closed same circuit.
Thank you! Yes, no current flowing makes those iron "safe". It's the use of quotation marks which annoys me! I understand some ICs can be sensitive to that scenario and I don't like the idea that my soldering iron "might" cause some damage, though in some rare situation. What do you think?
I experienced some interesting cases in that field. I have AIXUN T3B soldering station with T210 and T115 JBC handles and original JBC cartridges. AIXUN has connection to ground by default, hence the soldering tips are connected to ground as well. I was working on a device board which was connected with the PC, so I guess connected to ground through the PC. The board was ON and I wanted to solder some cold joints. When I touched the joint with the tip of the iron, the handle was turning off like when you put the iron in the holder to STANDBY. Touching the joint with the tip the loop through the ground was closing and it was affecting the work of the iron. Second case is I was replacing some broken MOSFETS on a board which was out of the device and not connected to anything. I changed the mosfet and soldered it with my AIXUN, and after I soldered it I checked it with a multimer and it was broken. Three times I resoldered the mosfet with the new one, three times the mosfet ended up dead. The problem was when soldering the gate. I figured out that some voltage is destroying the mosfets through the gate. I disconnected the ground from the soldering iron, and the problem was solved, no more dead mosfets. Since then, I use the soldering irons disconnected from ground, with the soldering station connected to ground. SORRY for such a long comment.
@@tony359 Yes, that's the same issue when soldering joint on a grounded PCB with a difference in my case T3B wasn't overshooting the temperature but going to standby, lowering the temperature to zero. As I said I solved it with disconnecting the iron from ground - no more voltage on the tip, no more issues.
Yes but a floating tip is not great either. There is a reason why there is ground there. Having the WHOLE iron disconnected from ground is in fact dangerous for you. You might get electrocuted if there is a fault. Be careful :)
Regarding the speaker noise... if for example the current was 0.0004 A (which would still read 0.000A on the meter), at 100V you have 0.04W, which jives with how quiet you indicated it was; plus the ~90V floating iron was quieter. :-) Sequre's mod recommendation and gift is commendable, but I feel like they should provide the capacitor as well, especially if they're already offering to send a free tip! But thanks for these reviews! I've been needing to get a (pseudo-)portable iron... :-)
3:10 It's very badly worded but I'm fairly confident each USB-C can deliver 65 W. If you use both at the same time, that's 45 W on the first and 20 W on the second
That's mentioned where it says USB-C1+USB-C2 = 45W +20W = 65W in between the ones I highlighted. But I see what you mean, that is probably the max ratings for then C1 is in "45W mode". Thanks for that!
Hello, my dear professor. I have a question, please. Can I print on clothes using this pen? I want to burn some lines on the shirt using the pen to form a specific drawing. Can this pen burn clothes like a machine?
Surprised you didn't use the headline feature of your Fluke 117 - the LoZ voltage option! It will tell you if the "phantom floating" 100V is capable of supplying any dangerous power or if it drops away as soon as there is a medium load.
Great video but I have to say that the problem with the high voltage on the tip has been addressed many times and we should all remember that these Irons are made to Operate From a Battery, that is a Power Bank. And in that case they are indeed "Safe" to operate. There is no high voltage on the tip whatsoever. The problem of the high AC voltage on tip is common to all USB-based solder irons indeed.
Well, they can be operated with a battery but that's not the only way. On battery the iron becomes floating - which is also not ESD safe! :) In my opinion an iron should always be grounded. BTW, I've discovered that a high quality laptop PSU won't show a voltage at the tip - or will show a much lower one, like 0.3V. Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 I agree all irons Should be grounded no doubt. The Pinecil and the Sequre S99 offer the ground point, but that is not an ideal way to operate since it would become a clutter of cables on the handle. In any case I also have seen reports that some quality PSU will not show the high voltage on the tip. Those irons do Require a good well designed PSU ...
Regarding the grounding issue, if you use a grounded power supply (like a laptop USB-C brick) then it the iron will be grounded. So if that's a major point you can just stop using normal USB chargers.
I'll check with my Lenovo PSU but I am not sure it's grounded? Anyways I think the Irons' tip does not connect to the USB shell. The Sequre has a dedicated grounding point (which I missed in the review) but that means having an extra wire going around. Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 Well out of curiosity I tested with my Lenovo laptop charger and the voltage of the tip between ground was almost 0, while with a normal USB charger it was 150v.
Nice review. The tips on the Kaiweets should be HS01. T85, T65 should match too. Seems that the HS01-, T85-, T65-tips from Aliexpress are always of good quality. A HS01 iron like the 'Quecco T85' can be a very good solution for 20-25€. It even takes TS100/101- tips, has a grounding-point and have a silicon cable.
ah thanks! I couldn't get that info from Kaiweets! :) Yes, that iron looks nice indeed. And it comes with a ground lead, amazing! Though it would be in the way, they need to come up with a special USB cable which has a ground clip coming out of it at the other end, IMHO. Thanks for your comment!
I also use the Aoyue Int701A++. Is yours older with the AC pump like mine? Recently got the Sequre S99 so I can finally see the difference cartridge tips make. Thanks for the videos!
Same. Mine totally clogged where the internal hose connects to the output port but you couldn’t tell. The clear internal tubing made it look 100% clean there. Ended up taking apart the motor and cleaning the diaphragms of all the yellow powder (flux residue) before finding the true cause. If pulling the trigger resets the desoldering gun’s sleep timer or wakes it to resume heating, it’s the original AC model. It’s considered weaker but more robust. I often have to pinch/kink the hose and pull the trigger to build up enough of a vacuum to clear some holes (jerk hose straight once suction peaks).
I think you commented this before - or someone did that at some point. Yes, mine wakes up when I pull the trigger. I never have to pinch the tubes to be honest. Servicing the gun can increase the suction A LOT. Chane o-rings, washers, lubricate with silicone grease. I know it's happy when I pull the trigger and I hear clear "suction noise" from the opening.
After my first job where it effortlessly removed the cartridge slot from an Atari 800 XL, mine never gave me a strong enough pull. I even bought a spare hand piece in case I just wasn’t servicing it correctly. I hear the suction just fine, it just takes a second to reach full strength since the motor has to spool up. By the time it has pulled all the air out of the hose and solder reservoir to reach peak suction it has also pulled solder off the surface, breaking my heat bridge that was keeping the other side molten and cooling it by drawing air from the surrounding. That means it does single-sided PCBs just fine but plated thru-holes on a ground pour requires technique. Looking back, I’m guessing the 800XL cartridge slot wasn’t secured through plated thru holes.
Why the don't install those USB-C power supplies into some metal box with the iron holder on the side? Sort of what schematix did DIY. Because: 1. Included holders for those small USB irons are crap 2. Buying normal holder is just another thing to carry/keep 3. USB-C PD bricks usually plug into socket that might be under your desk on the wall or floor and so the included 1m long silicone cable is not long enough 4. The PD bricks shipped with those irons often come with wrong socket type, whereas internal supply could be attached via IEC socket which everyone has plenty of at home with the right socket type on the mains input end.
It's been a while, can you point me to a time on the video? If you refer to the 20V from the PSU, that's called "power delivery". USB-C compatible with PD protocol can output up to 20V. The actual voltage is negotiated by the device itself.
Thanks! With the ground point - which is a bit cumbersome to use I have to say - the Sequre is getting a step up in my consideration. I might end up actually using it! Thanks for commenting again and my apologies again!
So have you found any usb soldering iron or similarly small soldering station which is worth recommending? I mean S99 looks nice but i already soldered some 0402 components and REALLY would like to avoid it as much as possible :)
Since these failed - I would really be interested in what you think about the Aixun T380 ‘portable’ unit?? I know you found serious faults with the T4A - what about the T380??
I have no idea I'm afraid but it's battery powered (well it can be). I feel the 380 is a different beast, it has a base, it's not something you can put in your pocket :) That said, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with a company which sticks their head in the sand when one of their customers reports an issue with one of their products.
You have Shucko, right? Yes, those are probably the best. One big advantage is that when they are on the floor they're not sitting with the prongs UP, waiting for you to step on them. British ones are PAINFUL, trust me :)
@@tony359shucko 90 degree plugs are pretty standard, the prongs can still be lying in wait for you waiting to step on them😂. Alot of the sockets in the Netherlands are still not grounded tho.
@@tony359 electrically swapping live and neutral doesn't really matter it's only when you start working on the installation it starts to matter. Personally I don't really get why people are puzzled by it, (balanced) AC is AC and if you work on it you should cut the power anyway. I am more puzzled about fuses in the UK power plug, that's what a fuse box is for in my opinion 😬 Got 30mA residual current breakers in my fuse box, my family's new house in the UK doesn't have those 🤔 My house only has grounded outlets downstairs and 1 in the attic for the central heater but the bedrooms don't have PE at all.
interesting, I thought RCD were compulsory here. My house is 2011 and I have it. Fuses in plugs are to protect the cable or the appliance. In theory, your fridge will have a 6A fuse in the plug - so if something goes wrong it won't wait the 20A breaker at the distribution box to cut power. Same if the cable is actually thin: it will have a proper fuse in the plug so it's always safe to use. It makes sense to me :)
With your speaker you have build a simple radio. Remember the coil? The solder iron is your antenna. You hear the 50/60Hz humm. And you hear the radio noise the iron makes.
But I don't hear anything with my JBC or Aoyue. I'd say the iron is an amplifier here. A speaker won't make sound with just radio frequencies, would you agree?
Pay attention if there is a direct galvanic connection from the outside of the case to the tip (a screw to connect ESD). Sh*t happens. That is an unnecessary risk to get an electrical chock. In my long repair practice I managed more than once to solder a real hot point...(tubes). My fault, but as I am still a live as I am a trained professional...(now). If there are such metal screws isolate them! My Weller is completely isolated(but has an ESD connector in the power supply. These device are dangerous toys.
I have found some good c245 tips from china if anyone wants to know which ones I can recommend them, the resistance is fine so you will get good power from them, I do prefer the Alientek t80p soldering iron, very similar to S99 but has better grip and better build quality
A solder iron that can't be ESD grounded is crap. The problem with ESD is, that it doesn't kill immediately but might degree the ICs protection a bit. There must be a way to connect the solder tip to earth with a high voltage 1 Megohm resistor. Using a power bank doesn't help.
I agree. In fact, I tried earthing the Sequre with 1MOhm resistor and I would still read 80V-ish at the tip. To read 0V I had to wire it directly to earth.
It reminds me of some AMD CPUs which would require a BIOS update on the motherboard before they could work. But to perform the BIOS update... you need a CPU! Back then AMD used to send compatible CPUs for free, just to perform the update :)
Yo the direction of the cable only matters for your usb tester. Some of them cheap out and only have the one set of critical contacts inside of the usb c connector instead of all of them to save money.
I've found the explanation! It's "expected". The USB-C cable can be reversed, the connected device will configure themselves so that all pins match. If the pinout is swapped "on the route" (at the USB tester), this configuration cannot work so the cable stops working. It makes sense. This is what I found: "It's due to one CC line changing roles to VCONN. If you 'flip' it in the middle with the tester, PD negotiation won't work. The device end shouldn't matter, assuming the devices implement USB-C properly."
No, I disagree with you about Sequre's way of addressing this. Not only do they not give you the component you need, but they don't even give you the "free" tip unless you order something else from them! Crap!. I can only assume the the money sent to them works as it should right from the beginning. No. This is on them and is their responsibility to fix. All you should have to do is send them a photo of a valid order with the number clearly shown (to prevent fraud) and they should send you a new unit. Optionally they could also send a return mailer to get their faulty ones back.
Those "type G" UK cord ends are over engineered in my opinion. They are massive and look like busbars you are plugging into the socket for the actual amount of current being drawn. Not saying the north American Type A and B are perfect either ( trust me I'd rather be using 240V over here too)
I have the Fnrisi (or whatever the name is) version. I have tried running it on power banks that dont output 20v and it will not work for some reason. Mine didnt come with an adapter either. However, I really do like it! Work great off my 40k Anker bank. That rebooting issue (from my experience) is caused by the iron pulling more current from the power supply than it can handle and the voltage drop causes the microcontroller to reboot. Had that issue with every adapter I own, save one.
I cannot have my 100W PSU working with the S99 anymore after I applied the capacitor mod, it just negotiate 5V now and nothing more. All my JBC tips also reboot the smaller USB PSUs no matter how much I limit the power or the protocol I choose. Sequre are trying to help though, But yes, once it's grounded is not a bad thing! :)
You need to go into the menu ad adjust the running voltage of the iron to what your power bank can produce. The power bank needs to be able to supply at least 9V. 12V -20V is preferred.
I found evidence online that the "directionality" of USB-C cables behaviour is intended with USB tester. What I found is this:
"It's due to one CC line changing roles to VCONN. If you 'flip' it in the middle with the tester, PD negotiation won't work. The device end shouldn't matter, assuming the devices implement USB-C properly."
I think it makes sense, the USB-C pinout is not identical on each side, but it's designed to be plugged both ways. The protocol configures the lines according to HOW the cable is plugged. If you swap the cable AFTER the USB tester, well the cable stops working. Very interesting!
I'm also reading that cables have an "e-marker" in them to tell the power supply/computer how much power they're able to sustain so the wrong cable - or worst, a passive one - will affect the max power. A passive cable in particular is limited to 3A (63W at 21V).
What COULD be happen is that a cable rated - say - 100W is used between the PSU and the USB tester and a cable rated 60W is used between the tester and the device. The power supply would output 100W and the 60W cable might get damaged. I didn't smoke those cables in my tests but I should have probably be more careful. The tester has a function to "read" the e-marker and display the maximum power they're rated for.
When NOT using a USB-tester, the system should be bullet-proof as it will self-limit itself based on the e-marker.
Super-interesting!
My wife's Aukey bluetooth earbuds' charging case exhibit this behavior too. :-) I think I've come across another device as well (maybe a BT speaker).
@@jeremywh7 interesting, I wonder if it's just a bad implementation of USB-C as I understand the devices have to configure themselves to make sure the wires are connected as expected!
@@jeremywh7For devices that only accept 5 volts, the device is supposed to link a certain pin with a resistor. This lets the PD supply know that it should output a constant 5 volts without further communication. If it doesn't do this, the power supply won't do anything as it doesn't "know" a device is connected. Giving a device power that isn't expecting it yet could cause problems in some cases.
Strictly speaking 60 watt cables actually have no e-markers. The lack of one is what signifies the 60 watt rating. It must have a chip to allow powers above 60W.
Thanks for re-uploading this. As you explained the first go-round, folks can make mistakes - it's permitted. What's important is what you do when you find a mistake. Well done!
Ah yes thankfully I did mention I make mistakes later on in the video, I jinxed it 😂. Thanks for your kind words!
The voltage or charge on the tip of the iron is more than enough to damage JFETs, MOSFETs, ICs and even BJTs!
I experienced this many years ago with an ungrounded tip of a Weller soldering iron, while soldering small MOSFETs.
Often a resistor of 100 kOhm between tip and (ESD-)ground is enough to solve the issue.
Indeed. The Sequre has a grounding screw - it's quite inconvenient to use but it's usable. The Kaiweets does not.
The screw between the display and the charging port? @@tony359
correct. It's mentioned in the manual.
31:23 - Fnirsi/kaiweets have screwing part for heating element, screw O ring terminal with earth wire there. T12 tips can be used also on Fnirsi, but I had to make aluminum part of 42mm to screw it on device. Now I have all range of tips.
Edit: There is a video on my channel for explanation.
Well, yes, I guess it's doable. Not the best to have a wire coming out of the FRONT of the iron! :)
Interesting to hear about the T12 tips :) Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 I actually just recorded video now. Check on my channel or search for "Fnirsi HS-01 modification T12 tip and battery tip". One more thing that I have done to my Fnirsi HS-01 is that I power it from 12V Bosch screwdriver battery.
Which aluminum part are you exactly referring to and how exactly did you modify it?
I‘m asking as I actually bought the kaiweets one and I think that being limited to just two companies for replacement absolutely su3ks.
Admittedly however, it’s the first time I have a cartridge-type soldering iron.
I have a Miniware TS-101 type iron and I found that it also had about 90v AC on the tip, however I did read the manual and it does have an earthing point and with that in use, I see maybe a few mV AC, so quite a difference, so definitely a consideration when purchasing this type of iron. Very interesting video for sure.
Absolutely! I know people using ungrounded irons with no issues. But grounded makes it safer for sure. Amazing that the TS-101 has the feature - so the Kaiweets is the black sheep here! Kaiweets actually confirmed me it's "by design". Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 By design? That seems to be a bit of a cut and run statement... I know there's no current flowing but it seems you'd want to follow what other manufacturers are doing and at least offer it as an option. I also wear an earthing strap for myself these days too just to be 100% sure I'm not going to damage anything I'm working on.
I tend to get shocked by everything particularly in winter when the heating is on so I religiously wear my earthing strap when touching electronics!
Yes, Kaiweets' statement was debatable but after debating for a while about that power supply I didn't feel like insisting :)
@@tony359 Yeah, I get your point re the power supply. Incidentally it was your original video that put me on to the voltage at the tip of the iron and why I went with earthing with my TS-101, so thanks for the great content 😁
you're very welcome!
In my mind, anything that doesn't support the JBC tips is a no-go. The original JBC tips are not **that** expensive all things considered and they last a really long time. I'd be happy to learn about something better but so far I haven't found it. Also for power supplies, a lot of them support a peak power that is higher than the rating for continuous loads. Great video, thanks!
I purchased quite a few genuine HAKKO tips over time and they're all still working 100%. The JBC will outlast many other tools I have - though some seem to be a bit "tired" already, I need to look into that. Anyways, I see your point and I agree.
Thanks for watching!
It seems that the Fnirsi HS-02 is also using the same tips as the JBC. @tony359 Another test with the Fnirsi HS-02? 🤣 The full kit with 100W power supply is about 85$.
The FNIRSI HS-02 is your answer. Or the sequre s99, alientek
Damn, these days even a soldering Iron needs to get updated.....!!!! Good video.
Yes, the "firmware update" thing is getting out of hands! :D
Interesting comparison! Perfect timing for me because I am looking to replace my setup!
These videos are fantastic! I chose my current hakko knockoff purely based on the "creepage" and "clearance" of the pictures of the power supply. (With a big thanks to Big Clive's channel for tearing down cheap DC supplies.)
Yes, I'd be scared to open those PSU's I was sent. I've seen videos where they found counterweights inside to make them feel "good quality"... |Thanks for watching!
Hi Tony,
i know this is already a older video, but correct me if i am wrong here, but your Fluke 117 can't measure µA, the Fluke 116 does well. That's the reason your meter showed zero. Normally when there is a leakage voltage present due the safety capacitor(s), there is also current in the µA range present.
Ah, I'd expect that indeed. How much is "too much" when it comes to current leakage?
@@tony359 , good question. I think every leakage current is too much, but it is quicker said then done to get rid of it.
Arround 5 years ago i purchased a secondhand digital Atten 60Mhz scope, and after prior reading about doing mains measurings, that you could blow up your scope, and that lifting the ground pin could prevent this (which i don't recommend) what "old skool" technicians recommend on some forums. I was then experimenting with the ground lifted to my scope. During these tests i measured arround 80V with µA current between the negative part of the BNC connectors of the scope and the ground wire of the mains grid, this was caused by the safety capacitors on the power input of the scope which normally are connected to ground. I was testing if this 80V with µA current could do any damage, and placed a 5 mm white LED between the ground of the scope and the ground of the mains grid. This LED was glowing and worked for a few minutes and then died.
In my opinion, such a LED is more sturdy then say a Mosfet or other sensitive electronic component, so even it is low current, it can damage electronic components. This leakage current can sometimes be removed by a direct connection to earth, like on a scope, but not every device is developed the same way to do this safely, like you discovered when you soldered on a grounded circuit in one of your soldering station reviews.
So a low impedance connection is not always possible to get rid of this leakage current, but you can use high impedance connection like 500K or 1Mohm, is can sometimes reduce this leakage voltage and current for more then 50% to a much safer value.
I'd agree that "zero voltage and zero leakage" is the only acceptable values :)
Yes, I was also told by some old-school engineers about the ground trick. In the end I bought some differential probes :)
Would the multimeter measure current if it was placed between the soldering iron tip and the speaker wire when making the speaker buzz?
The Aixun? Yes, I show that in the video. The sound is just the physical representation of current flowing. No current = the speaker coil does not move.
Those tips for the KETS02 look an awful lot like the tips usedby the TS100/TS101. I wonder if they are interchangeable.
TS100 tips seem to have a metal bit where the Kaiweets' have the screwing collar. I'm not sure...
Excellent review! I hadn't even thought about tip grounding before you mentioned this topic. I had been considering the Fnirsi HS-02, and this one appears to be the same thing in a different brand name. Price is about the same as well.
Yes I think it's the same tool. At least the Sequre has a ground point...
Thank you!
the best channel I know
You're too kind, thanks!
Hi Tony! I didn't go through all of comments, so maybe I'm repeating the answer. Anyway, the voltage is appearing because you're measuring two different potential points but not in the same or closed circuit, that's why there is no current flowing. Current always flows in a closed same circuit.
Thank you! Yes, no current flowing makes those iron "safe". It's the use of quotation marks which annoys me! I understand some ICs can be sensitive to that scenario and I don't like the idea that my soldering iron "might" cause some damage, though in some rare situation. What do you think?
I experienced some interesting cases in that field. I have AIXUN T3B soldering station with T210 and T115 JBC handles and original JBC cartridges. AIXUN has connection to ground by default, hence the soldering tips are connected to ground as well. I was working on a device board which was connected with the PC, so I guess connected to ground through the PC. The board was ON and I wanted to solder some cold joints. When I touched the joint with the tip of the iron, the handle was turning off like when you put the iron in the holder to STANDBY. Touching the joint with the tip the loop through the ground was closing and it was affecting the work of the iron. Second case is I was replacing some broken MOSFETS on a board which was out of the device and not connected to anything. I changed the mosfet and soldered it with my AIXUN, and after I soldered it I checked it with a multimer and it was broken. Three times I resoldered the mosfet with the new one, three times the mosfet ended up dead. The problem was when soldering the gate. I figured out that some voltage is destroying the mosfets through the gate. I disconnected the ground from the soldering iron, and the problem was solved, no more dead mosfets. Since then, I use the soldering irons disconnected from ground, with the soldering station connected to ground. SORRY for such a long comment.
@@kelavpp You mean what I discovered here? :) th-cam.com/video/hGK7s-9tXs4/w-d-xo.html
The T3A/T3B is good as a paperweight :)
@@tony359 Yes, that's the same issue when soldering joint on a grounded PCB with a difference in my case T3B wasn't overshooting the temperature but going to standby, lowering the temperature to zero. As I said I solved it with disconnecting the iron from ground - no more voltage on the tip, no more issues.
Yes but a floating tip is not great either. There is a reason why there is ground there. Having the WHOLE iron disconnected from ground is in fact dangerous for you. You might get electrocuted if there is a fault. Be careful :)
Nice video, very informative thanks
Thank you for watching!
Regarding the speaker noise... if for example the current was 0.0004 A (which would still read 0.000A on the meter), at 100V you have 0.04W, which jives with how quiet you indicated it was; plus the ~90V floating iron was quieter. :-) Sequre's mod recommendation and gift is commendable, but I feel like they should provide the capacitor as well, especially if they're already offering to send a free tip! But thanks for these reviews! I've been needing to get a (pseudo-)portable iron... :-)
Ideally they should provide a replacement PCB :)
But between what they did and what Aixun didn't do, I feel like commending their behaviour.
3:10 It's very badly worded but I'm fairly confident each USB-C can deliver 65 W. If you use both at the same time, that's 45 W on the first and 20 W on the second
That's mentioned where it says USB-C1+USB-C2 = 45W +20W = 65W in between the ones I highlighted. But I see what you mean, that is probably the max ratings for then C1 is in "45W mode". Thanks for that!
@@tony359 Yes, so the circled line gives you more details and shows for instance you're limited only on the 20 V mode for C1
Hello, my dear professor. I have a question, please. Can I print on clothes using this pen? I want to burn some lines on the shirt using the pen to form a specific drawing. Can this pen burn clothes like a machine?
Hello my dear pupil -
It's a soldering iron, it's a hot rod. Whether that could be used to burn clothing, I do not know.
Would using these soldering irons on a PD powerbank solve the need for grounding or the ESD issues?
It would make it floating which is also not great. It could get charged by static and zap an IC. Unlikely but still...
does the voltage on the tip issue disappear when powering using a battery powered power bank?
I don't have such a powerful power bank but I'd assume so. Though if you do so, your tip is going to be floating which is also not great.
Surprised you didn't use the headline feature of your Fluke 117 - the LoZ voltage option! It will tell you if the "phantom floating" 100V is capable of supplying any dangerous power or if it drops away as soon as there is a medium load.
Well, I checked the current. That is a more precise measurement than a Fluke beeping I guess :)
Great video but I have to say that the problem with the high voltage on the tip has been addressed many times and we should all remember that these Irons are made to Operate From a Battery, that is a Power Bank. And in that case they are indeed "Safe" to operate. There is no high voltage on the tip whatsoever. The problem of the high AC voltage on tip is common to all USB-based solder irons indeed.
Well, they can be operated with a battery but that's not the only way. On battery the iron becomes floating - which is also not ESD safe! :)
In my opinion an iron should always be grounded.
BTW, I've discovered that a high quality laptop PSU won't show a voltage at the tip - or will show a much lower one, like 0.3V. Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 I agree all irons Should be grounded no doubt. The Pinecil and the Sequre S99 offer the ground point, but that is not an ideal way to operate since it would become a clutter of cables on the handle. In any case I also have seen reports that some quality PSU will not show the high voltage on the tip. Those irons do Require a good well designed PSU ...
Regarding the grounding issue, if you use a grounded power supply (like a laptop USB-C brick) then it the iron will be grounded. So if that's a major point you can just stop using normal USB chargers.
I'll check with my Lenovo PSU but I am not sure it's grounded? Anyways I think the Irons' tip does not connect to the USB shell. The Sequre has a dedicated grounding point (which I missed in the review) but that means having an extra wire going around. Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 Well out of curiosity I tested with my Lenovo laptop charger and the voltage of the tip between ground was almost 0, while with a normal USB charger it was 150v.
I'll check that out, thanks!
Nice review. The tips on the Kaiweets should be HS01. T85, T65 should match too. Seems that the HS01-, T85-, T65-tips from Aliexpress are always of good quality. A HS01 iron like the 'Quecco T85' can be a very good solution for 20-25€. It even takes TS100/101- tips, has a grounding-point and have a silicon cable.
ah thanks! I couldn't get that info from Kaiweets! :)
Yes, that iron looks nice indeed. And it comes with a ground lead, amazing! Though it would be in the way, they need to come up with a special USB cable which has a ground clip coming out of it at the other end, IMHO. Thanks for your comment!
I also use the Aoyue Int701A++. Is yours older with the AC pump like mine?
Recently got the Sequre S99 so I can finally see the difference cartridge tips make. Thanks for the videos!
I don't remember, I disassembled that pump some time ago to clean it but I don't remember if it was AC or DC. Thanks for watching!
Same. Mine totally clogged where the internal hose connects to the output port but you couldn’t tell. The clear internal tubing made it look 100% clean there. Ended up taking apart the motor and cleaning the diaphragms of all the yellow powder (flux residue) before finding the true cause.
If pulling the trigger resets the desoldering gun’s sleep timer or wakes it to resume heating, it’s the original AC model. It’s considered weaker but more robust. I often have to pinch/kink the hose and pull the trigger to build up enough of a vacuum to clear some holes (jerk hose straight once suction peaks).
I think you commented this before - or someone did that at some point. Yes, mine wakes up when I pull the trigger. I never have to pinch the tubes to be honest. Servicing the gun can increase the suction A LOT. Chane o-rings, washers, lubricate with silicone grease. I know it's happy when I pull the trigger and I hear clear "suction noise" from the opening.
After my first job where it effortlessly removed the cartridge slot from an Atari 800 XL, mine never gave me a strong enough pull. I even bought a spare hand piece in case I just wasn’t servicing it correctly. I hear the suction just fine, it just takes a second to reach full strength since the motor has to spool up. By the time it has pulled all the air out of the hose and solder reservoir to reach peak suction it has also pulled solder off the surface, breaking my heat bridge that was keeping the other side molten and cooling it by drawing air from the surrounding. That means it does single-sided PCBs just fine but plated thru-holes on a ground pour requires technique. Looking back, I’m guessing the 800XL cartridge slot wasn’t secured through plated thru holes.
For what its worth, my weller can also light up LEDs while I'm soldering them.😅
Yes, the Aixun is more of a "light" welding gun I shall say :)
Why the don't install those USB-C power supplies into some metal box with the iron holder on the side?
Sort of what schematix did DIY.
Because:
1. Included holders for those small USB irons are crap
2. Buying normal holder is just another thing to carry/keep
3. USB-C PD bricks usually plug into socket that might be under your desk on the wall or floor and so the included 1m long silicone cable is not long enough
4. The PD bricks shipped with those irons often come with wrong socket type, whereas internal supply could be attached via IEC socket which everyone has plenty of at home with the right socket type on the mains input end.
I must be missing some understanding... sorry for asking. But USB is 5Volt as far as I know... Where does the 20 volt come from ?
It's been a while, can you point me to a time on the video?
If you refer to the 20V from the PSU, that's called "power delivery". USB-C compatible with PD protocol can output up to 20V. The actual voltage is negotiated by the device itself.
I was just watching the original upload. This should be interesting youre excellent at testing irons.
Thanks! With the ground point - which is a bit cumbersome to use I have to say - the Sequre is getting a step up in my consideration. I might end up actually using it! Thanks for commenting again and my apologies again!
So have you found any usb soldering iron or similarly small soldering station which is worth recommending? I mean S99 looks nice but i already soldered some 0402 components and REALLY would like to avoid it as much as possible :)
No but really I haven't looked, sorry! :)
Thank You very much for Your interesting review
Thank you for watching!
what happens to either iron if you forget to install the tip
you get an error on the display
Since these failed - I would really be interested in what you think about the Aixun T380 ‘portable’ unit??
I know you found serious faults with the T4A - what about the T380??
I have no idea I'm afraid but it's battery powered (well it can be). I feel the 380 is a different beast, it has a base, it's not something you can put in your pocket :)
That said, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with a company which sticks their head in the sand when one of their customers reports an issue with one of their products.
NL socket is the best !
You have Shucko, right? Yes, those are probably the best. One big advantage is that when they are on the floor they're not sitting with the prongs UP, waiting for you to step on them. British ones are PAINFUL, trust me :)
@@tony359shucko 90 degree plugs are pretty standard, the prongs can still be lying in wait for you waiting to step on them😂.
Alot of the sockets in the Netherlands are still not grounded tho.
not grounded! I've also been puzzled by European/Italian plugs which allow Neutral and Live to be swapped...
@@tony359 electrically swapping live and neutral doesn't really matter it's only when you start working on the installation it starts to matter.
Personally I don't really get why people are puzzled by it, (balanced) AC is AC and if you work on it you should cut the power anyway.
I am more puzzled about fuses in the UK power plug, that's what a fuse box is for in my opinion 😬
Got 30mA residual current breakers in my fuse box, my family's new house in the UK doesn't have those 🤔
My house only has grounded outlets downstairs and 1 in the attic for the central heater but the bedrooms don't have PE at all.
interesting, I thought RCD were compulsory here. My house is 2011 and I have it. Fuses in plugs are to protect the cable or the appliance. In theory, your fridge will have a 6A fuse in the plug - so if something goes wrong it won't wait the 20A breaker at the distribution box to cut power.
Same if the cable is actually thin: it will have a proper fuse in the plug so it's always safe to use. It makes sense to me :)
Is the only difference to the original upload the text shown on the screen saying it can be grounded?
There is a little addendum at 28:49 to explain things a bit better. Also the text you saw towards the end, in case someone skips to that part :)
I skipped to that part, having already seen the first upload ;)
Of course! 40 minutes of Tony in one day are enough! :D
Personally I would just use an American Beauty fifty watt iron with their 724 tip
With your speaker you have build a simple radio.
Remember the coil?
The solder iron is your antenna.
You hear the 50/60Hz humm.
And you hear the radio noise the iron makes.
But I don't hear anything with my JBC or Aoyue. I'd say the iron is an amplifier here. A speaker won't make sound with just radio frequencies, would you agree?
Pay attention if there is a direct galvanic connection from the outside of the case to the tip (a screw to connect ESD). Sh*t happens.
That is an unnecessary risk to get an electrical chock. In my long repair practice I managed more than once to solder a real hot point...(tubes).
My fault, but as I am still a live as I am a trained professional...(now).
If there are such metal screws isolate them!
My Weller is completely isolated(but has an ESD connector in the power supply.
These device are dangerous toys.
AHH excellent point! Super excellent!
I'm more happy to have purchased the JBC now... :)
I have found some good c245 tips from china if anyone wants to know which ones I can recommend them, the resistance is fine so you will get good power from them, I do prefer the Alientek t80p soldering iron, very similar to S99 but has better grip and better build quality
Oh yes, I like the rubber bit of the Alientek! How many of those irons are around?? :)
A solder iron that can't be ESD grounded is crap.
The problem with ESD is, that it doesn't kill immediately but might degree the ICs protection a bit.
There must be a way to connect the solder tip to earth with a high voltage 1 Megohm resistor.
Using a power bank doesn't help.
I agree. In fact, I tried earthing the Sequre with 1MOhm resistor and I would still read 80V-ish at the tip. To read 0V I had to wire it directly to earth.
Leaving a comment, great support!🎉
Thank you!
Having to solder a soldering iron seems ironic!
It reminds me of some AMD CPUs which would require a BIOS update on the motherboard before they could work. But to perform the BIOS update... you need a CPU! Back then AMD used to send compatible CPUs for free, just to perform the update :)
@@tony359 I do remember that AMD issue. 😎
Great information!
Thanks for watching!
Yo the direction of the cable only matters for your usb tester. Some of them cheap out and only have the one set of critical contacts inside of the usb c connector instead of all of them to save money.
That’s awful! Are you saying it’s not a fault? Unbelievable! Thank you!
@@tony359 yeah it's cost savings. You can also find it on cheap usb c laptop chargers.
I've found the explanation! It's "expected". The USB-C cable can be reversed, the connected device will configure themselves so that all pins match. If the pinout is swapped "on the route" (at the USB tester), this configuration cannot work so the cable stops working. It makes sense.
This is what I found: "It's due to one CC line changing roles to VCONN. If you 'flip' it in the middle with the tester, PD negotiation won't work. The device end shouldn't matter, assuming the devices implement USB-C properly."
No, I disagree with you about Sequre's way of addressing this. Not only do they not give you the component you need, but they don't even give you the "free" tip unless you order something else from them! Crap!. I can only assume the the money sent to them works as it should right from the beginning. No. This is on them and is their responsibility to fix. All you should have to do is send them a photo of a valid order with the number clearly shown (to prevent fraud) and they should send you a new unit. Optionally they could also send a return mailer to get their faulty ones back.
I think we share the same opinion, I just mentioned that in a more diplomatic way!
For a while, i thought Sean Connery came back!
uhm, that's interesting! :)
At least UK uses metric system!
Oh boy!
Yes
Those "type G" UK cord ends are over engineered in my opinion. They are massive and look like busbars you are plugging into the socket for the actual amount of current being drawn. Not saying the north American Type A and B are perfect either ( trust me I'd rather be using 240V over here too)
They probably are but coming from Italy I think they're much better than the "three cylindrical prongs" we have there. But yes, super chunky! :)
35:10 if you don't have 40 minutes....
You're amazing :)
@@tony359 He really is, isn't he? I wonder if he understands the YT algorithm?
Not being able to get the tips from other suppliers is very bad as they can demand any price for replacements, so I would not purchase.
I have the Fnrisi (or whatever the name is) version. I have tried running it on power banks that dont output 20v and it will not work for some reason. Mine didnt come with an adapter either. However, I really do like it! Work great off my 40k Anker bank.
That rebooting issue (from my experience) is caused by the iron pulling more current from the power supply than it can handle and the voltage drop causes the microcontroller to reboot. Had that issue with every adapter I own, save one.
I cannot have my 100W PSU working with the S99 anymore after I applied the capacitor mod, it just negotiate 5V now and nothing more. All my JBC tips also reboot the smaller USB PSUs no matter how much I limit the power or the protocol I choose. Sequre are trying to help though,
But yes, once it's grounded is not a bad thing! :)
You need to go into the menu ad adjust the running voltage of the iron to what your power bank can produce. The power bank needs to be able to supply at least 9V. 12V -20V is preferred.
blah blah blah... respect digital resources and your dignity
Shall do, thanks!