More than you know! I know a tech that used to work on CRTs on a grounded bench. While standing over the CRT he made contact with high voltage with his hand and it went through his "tip" to the bench ;)
I'm not in market of buying soldering stations but I wish other products reviewers are diligent as you are. In any case very entertaining video. Thank you! ❤
Tony. I know you are considering not continuing to make videos. I sincerely hope you dont. I know others have said this, but your channel is super underrated, as you produce absolutely fantastic content. Pacing, level of information, the content itself.. If it where a restaurant, 3 Michelin stars, for sure! What im trying to say, keep it in mind. And if you do decide to not to continue, i hope youll still post from time to time, fully on your own terms. Because, you sir, is a master of your work! And this video shows. Calling out a fatal flat that generally isn't known. Perfection!!! PS: But if you decide to stop, i support you in your decision. Only you can judge whether or not it makes sense to you. It's the only thing that matters. :D
@@RetroPC-vy3kt yeah.. The platform is over-saturated big time, on almost every genre.. Also, I know it as he stated in one of his videos in december or november i think.. I totally get why it is up for consideration.. The low numbers are criminal when the content rivals and exceeds most other retro-tech channels.
Thank you all for your nice words and concerns! Yes, it can be demotivating to see a video I worked on for so many days doing the bare minimum in terms of views and showing very few comments. More recent videos have been more active and this tremendously boosts my motivation! :) We can indeed debate whether the "retro" sector is over-saturated - considering my last two videos are not about "retro" and are doing so much better. That said, I'd like to reassure you that I don't have plans to stop making videos in the foreseeable future. Did I say that in December? Thank you so much for sending your support! It's really appreciated! Tony
The fact that the speaker made any noise at all proves that enough energy comes through the tip of this soldering iron to blow up any kind of micro electronics! Totally unacceptable, also the fact that the temperature of the tip can randomly go up to 500 degrees is also totally unacceptable! The JBC (from Spain, it is NOT from the UK!) is one of the best soldering irons I have ever worked with, the speed with which you can change to another tip, and the speed it heats the tip up is phenomenal!
I'm just a hobbyst and I didn't turn it into an investigation, but I had that Aixun station turning on the LEDs when I solder them onto a grounded board. Now, it might be enough to flow half a miliamp to get an LED lighting up, but it definitely needs more than 1V. I think white LEDs need about 2V to get about 1mA, since they're based on blue LED covered with phosphor layer - so I think it's fair to assume that, while the voltage leak is 1V constant, there are up to at least 2V spikes. I'm talking about smd power LEDs 5*5mm about 10-20W, consuming 3-5 amps at normal operation (flashlights, car headlights etc), not those 50mA straw LEDs. Anyways, 2V IS enough to light up an LED, but it also might be enough to kill a GPU, for example, if there's nothing limitting current on that 1V (except for, like 0.00 something Ohms of that GPU) Maybe it's just me and my Aixun. Who knows.
Nah, it's not just your Aixun unfortunately. This has been confirmed by others. I thought you don't need much to turn on an LED, even my Fluke multimeter in diode mode can turn them on. Oh but you're talking about power LEDs. I think the bottom line here is that the maximum acceptable voltage and current leaking from a soldering iron is 0.0V and 0.0A. Full stop. :D (* fair enough, I think JBC rates their stations for 200mV maximum - which I cannot measure anyways - but 1V and 1.4A definitely cannot be acceptable and I refuse to use such soldering iron for my boards)
@@tony359 Power LEDs require the same voltage to be turned on as every LED, they are just able to draw high current, but light up at low current just as every LED. Constant current regulated devices, but still, we do know that white led draws 3V at 1A, or maybe 3.2V at 3A, this curve starts at maybe 2V - 0.1 mA. Multimeter in diode mode pushes some voltage through the component and measures voltage drop, they should be able to light up LEDs. The thing here is - when you put voltage differential of 1V over an LED - nothing happens. You need about 2V for a white LED to be able to pull some minimal ammount of current - less than a miliamp is needed to light any LED up. In case of red LED, 2 volts would be enough for it to draw maybe 20-50 mA, in case of IR LEDs, 2V is more than operating voltage, in case of UV LEDs, probably couldn't draw anything. There's actually relationship between lightwaves and voltage, it's actually fascinating :D Physics... But, here, we're talking about white LEDs, which is basically blue LED with phosphor allowing white glow - this kind of LED works at around 3.4V 5A, this kind of LED has no chance of showing any signs of life at 1V, and it's just starting to glow at 2V. So, when I'm soldering anode side and see it intermitently glowing, I know at least 2V is jumping accross it. Intermitently, as I move the iron, with obvious spike when touching the anode first time... Sorry for my lausy English :D
I saw other reviews of this Aixun station, and nobody was mentioning about this voltage leak. For me it is a deal breaker and unacceptable as well. I must admit. I was thinking about buying this Aixun, but now? not a chance.
Glad I helped you making a decision! As an Aixun customer, I was also disappointed to see this massive design flaw of this unit... Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 I have been watching reviews of the Aixun as well and it seemed very tempting, strange nobody else picked up on this. Do you have a recommendation for someone without the JBC budget?
Very interesting that no one else has picked it up but also that you had terrible customer service. Are you going to send it back? If not, let’s think how we can remove that voltage risk…
@thomas - when you buy something from Aliexpress, there is no "sending back" :) I have involved the seller, they just directed me to Aixun. It's a common behaviour from Aliexpress sellers, they waste your time hoping you drop the case! :) @lemagreen Someone seems to suggest that older models are less affected. I don't know what to think, all I know is that I went soldering my Shuttle 591P motherboard on a pre-heating plate and the T3A started flashing "NO TOOLS" :)
you can always use an Isolating Transformer, this way, the voltage leak is not a problem anymore. i'm pretty sure, you 'll not have anymore the temp issue and i don't believe any firmware will correct this problem
So glad i just came across your videos about this issue. I was just about to purchase this station but frequently work on grounded boards when they are on an oscope.
There you go! I'm reading about other stations with voltage leakage at the tip - it seems to be a design flaw caused by the mains ground used in the secondary circuit. I have a feeling the T3A is not the only one misbehaving. Other stations might have been better at hiding this issue. If you think about it, if I had installed 1.35 straight away (which doesn't flash "NO TOOLS" anymore and hides the temp spike), I wouldn't have noticed. And not everybody has a soldering iron thermometer. In short: be careful of what you buy! I hear that a linear transformer is a better choice :) Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the videos on the subject. I for myself am fine with not working on grounded PCBs, but I hope someone figures out why that voltage leak is introduced in the first place and maybe finds a mod to fix the issue.
Opening the T3A is challenging :) I'd be more inclined to find a station which doesn't have that issue. I was told the Sugon is good - but I just didn't want to experiment more... Thanks for watching!
The 320 does - it's still SMPS power supply. I'm told the Sugon is very good - I just didn't want to spend quite some money to "test" again. I really needed something reliable and that could be trusted. But maybe the Sugon is the JBC killer!
No, I did not do much troubleshooting. I repair things, I don't have the skills to design things. I'm happy to leave that to others :) There is a very long thread about the T3A on EEVBlog, there are a few people looking into this issue.
Hello Tony, I heared about your Video arround 2 weeks ago the first time and was a bit shocked. I bought mine T3A arround 3/4 year ago and never soldered on grounded stuff in this time. Today I finally found time to test it on my station. I can't reproduce your failures on my station. I measured the tip of the soldering tip to the main ground and got about 0,X Ohm. I did the same with the ground point of the soldering station. Same results. As next step I used a Aixun DT1 Temp. measure device, set the soldering station to 150° C and measured it. I reached arround 140°C on the DT1 and station told me 150°C. Than I took a wire which was connected to the soldering station ground and pushed it against the tip of the tip. No Temp Spikes came. To be on the safe side I connected the wire directly to the main ground of the power outlet and guess what? No Temp Spikes on the DT1 or the soldering station. I dont know what is wrong with your station but mine works fine. Is maybe the tip broke you was testing with? Or maybe your whole station got a failure. That Aixun Support is not responding I can confirm too. I got once a reply before I bought the station but since than no response on questions :( I'm not sure if I can measure any voltages on the tip with my equipment but I will try it later. Hope this might helps. Regards, Pad
Hi, thanks for your comment. It's not ground per se which is causing the issue - at least in my experience. It's "some pins when the PCB is connected to ground". Don't ask me why. Bear in mind that from 1.34 onwards the software seems to be hiding the issue so you won't see those spikes on the display. What I am experiencing has been reported by others too - also other reviewers following my discovery. That said, someone doesn't seem to be able to reproduce the issue so either there are different versions of that station or... I don't know :) For the voltage and current you just need a multimeter. In the end, if it works for you then happy days :) Thanks for the comment and for sharing your experience!
Okay I just measure the tip voltages against the power outlet ground. I got with DC V Measurement a spike of 0,03V and with AC V a spike up to 0,18V with my multimeter. Its a Gossen Metrahit Pro. A pretty expensive high quality one here in Germany. I dont got a oscilloscope for more accurate measurements. Hope it helps to find the problem with your station.
@@tony359 Hey, that are all really strange behavoirs. I just connected the station to my pc and used the Aixun Software. Its telling me I got Hardware Version 1.0 and Software 1.35, when it got delivered it was 1.31 or 1.32. Newest Version it offers me at the moment is 1.36. I got the EU Version of the Station with 230V I heared that the new software version should hide the bug, that is why I worked with a seperate temp measuring device (Aixun DT1). Its for calibrating the tips. When it really goes crazy to 500°C+ the device should notice some change. But adding a grounded wire to the tip for 30-60 secs let nothing happen. I saw your videos how fast the temp. goes higher and higher. Sadly I dont got any old PC mainboard laying arround to test it there. I find it a really strange bug and have no idea why this is or should happen. All I can say at the moment is that I'm pretty happen that I dont have the same bugs. I only need this station for some soldering 1-2 times a year to repair something. Its not like I need to use it every day for work. But what I have to solder this year worked really really good. So I'm pretty happy with the station. :)
Again you're not the only one saying their stations don't exhibit the same problem. But touching ground by itself shouldn't trigger the problem. Thanks for the feedback!
@@tony359 what if you power it through an isolation transformer, that might solve the current leak, allowing it to be used as a second soldering iron (perhaps).
Yes, 1V at 1.8A is ridiculous and completely unacceptable but i want to know why. Why is is it doing that? Could it be hardware modded to fix this issue? Even if the PCB you're working on is isolated from ground, that leakage could damage ICs and FETs.. i think its something to do with the SMPS. The JBC will have separate windings on the transformer for the control circuit and the iron and uses an opto isolator and triac to switch the power to the iron. The aixun probably does not.
Glad you agree! I've read around that it could be because Aixun are using ground as a reference on the 24V DC side - might be mistaken though, don't quote me! :) The issue is that opening the T3A is not easy, the front panel is glued and often breaks when removed...
I really appreciate your time and video with a real review showing the real issues. I can't believe it is putting out that much power through the tip of the iron. Sorry you got burned (no pun intended) on this one but solid effort letting the rest of us know about the issues.
Great review/ comparison. Thanks Tony. ✅ 1.7 Amps.! 😲 Thats a welder Not a soldering iron. 😁 I only use Irons that have Ceramic Heaters, 100% isolated. Just one tip, 3mm conical chisle. For heavy jobs I use a small or large gas irons. Maintenance / Usage tip. DON'T TOUCH THE TIP OR BARREL. Hot or cold, just don't. The acid and oil from your skin eats away at the metal, this effect is amplified by the heating and cooling cycles. Gloves or recycled paper towel. I still use my first iron, bought as used from an old gentlemen who schooled me for an hour on how to care for your tools. Its 55yrs old now.
i've got an old hakko clone with a temp knob and a digital readout. lets me fine tune without having to resort to dealing with annoying button combos that a lot of these newer stations tend to use. unless i can find a more modern system that uses the same general idea, not so much. the ksger t12 units and similar come close to the point, but also really don't. because if things glitch out the rotary encoder isn't going to be of much help. i'm probably always going to want manual control of the temp, i think. and yes, the voltage/amperage output on the tip is of any unit is... beyond unacceptable. a few mili or micro volts are probably irrelevant, but half a volt and half to one and a half amps? noooooo way.
You know, I also looked at some older analogue JBC... I thought that maybe removing the electronics from the equation was a good thing! Why everything these days has to have a colour LCD and a firmware? :) Sometimes simpler is better. Thanks for watching!
Rework/hobby/home use is usually very different from industrial use. The reason the industrial soldering equipment lacks on the UI department is due to the station is set up to a single task on a production line for the vast majority off the time. And also usually, the station UI is locked down with a pin, so the operator cannot fiddle with the settings. A great UI experience is simply not on the top of the list. Great ergonomics, superb soldering performance, that is what JBC is about. And in my opinion, JBC delivers this in spades. I put up with the UI being a bit... awkward.
I've got the same issue with the Aixun T320. What I have learnt is that the tip is not actually grounded. It's low resistance, but not a direct short to main ground, and appears to be 0.15Ohms measured from tip to IEC mains ground. When measuring the the ground port on the back to IEC mains ground, its about = 0.03ohms. This is measured with a calibrated low ohms meter, not a DMM. 1v would be around 150mA, so in the ball park. Not sure if this is related to heating or thermocouple measurement tho.
Yes, that is probably what's happening as if the tip is grounded it shouldn't show a voltage on it! My DMM can only go down to 0.5 Ohm. Thanks for sharing your experience - too bad the T3A turned out to be like that!
I’m glad I watched this! I was just about to buy one! Out of interest have you tried the latest firmware updates. It wouldn’t be interesting to know if they’ve addressed any of the issues.
no, I sold it :) I doubt they can "address" anything via FW. The thermocouple gets blind. You can "mitigate" but not "address" IMHO. Thanks for watching!
Se solo l'avessi visto prima questo video! Ho comprato qualche giorno fa una T3A, e incuriosito mi sono messo a ricercare in giro per il web. Devo dire che mi hai fatto un po' pentire del mio acquisto, però per i lavori che dovrò farci non dovrebbe essere un grande problema. Speriamo che in futuro si riesca a trovare una qualche soluzione. Grazie mille Tony, saluti dall'Italia 👋🏻
Mi dispiace! :) Per uso "normale" va anche bene. Ma io mi trovo sempre il ground di mezzo e avere la punta che schizza a 500C proprio non mi va. Finche' non hai la terra di mezzo diciamo che va bene - anche se qualcuno ha suggerito che il fatto di trovarsi 1V a 1.8A su un PCB potrebbe non essere gradito da taluni integrati molto sensibili. Fai delle prove comunque, ci sono diversi utenti che sostengono di non avere alcuna tensione sulla loro T3A - sembrerebbe che vi siano varie versioni HW? Io so solo che la mia e' originale Aixun, me lo ha confermato la Aixun stessa. In bocca al lupo! :)
This is due to the Y-capacitor between the pri and sec windings of SMPS. Low-frequency current flows through it, throubh the negative output bus and the ungrounded body of the tip at the moments when the state of the diodes of the input rectifier bridge is open. The chinese connect the tip body to the earth with 1MOhm resistor only to remove the static charge.
Yes that’s something I’ve read around. But I’m reading 0 Ohm continuity between the tip and mains ground, not 1MOhm. How is that possible? Thanks for watching and for commenting!
@@tony359 In that case I think the current through the Y-capacitor and tip takes a shorter path to "global" point of earth than through the ground wire in the soldering iron's power cable. This may be due to the location of the sockets in the extension cord or the thickness of the ground wires. Remember that other consumers connected in series in the extension cord create a voltage drops on the serial ground bus at the same moments when the diodes of their rectifiers are switched. Because of this, there will be different potentials at different points on the serial ground bus.
My second thought. The JBC has a separate wire in the handle cable for grounding the tip directly into the handle on the petal. Whereas Aixun grounds the negative bus on the DIN connector. Because of this, an additional potential is created on the tip, caused by a voltage drop on the negative wire of the handle during the flow of heater load current.
On the T3A, the mains earth is directly connected to the DC- on the main PCB. The issue here is the JBC cartridges share a common connection between the thermocouple and the heater, when you touch the cartridge on something earthed, you create a potential on the thermocouple input which looks like a low temperature.
There's always compromises buying cheap stuff. That's part of the fun of being a hobbyist. Professionals don't care if they spend a bit more on the tools they use for their business as that cost is neglibile in the long run anyway for them. It's very important to be aware of the caveats with the knockoffs and cheaper stuff, though, so videos like this are good to inform people about the issues. I am keeping my T3A, as I'm aware of its shortcomings and make sure I don't run into any trouble. I am staying on an older firmware version though as the "fix" they did for temperature overshoot is just ridiculous as you seem to agree with. Their algorithm must be something like this: display_temp = min(measured_temp, set_point_temp); LUDICROUS.
I wish I could downgrade - mine doesn't take anything below 1.30-something I think, the display would get unreadable. I guess they might have swapped the display driver. I tried staying away from those caveats but I really couldn't. The SMD removal was the last straw: I cannot mitigate that! I had to stop soldering for 10-15 seconds waiting for the tip to get back to the set temperature. Of course not everybody needs to de-solder hundreds of SMD caps with two irons but I like to think that my station can do that if I have to! Thanks for watching and for the nice comment!
@@tony359 I did downgrade to one that showed the actual temperature. I am on holiday right now so I can't check which version it was, but at least my unit always shows the measured temperature now.
@@tony359I finally got back to my home country, and was able to verify that I successfully had managed to downgrade my Aixun T3A to 1.27 last autumn. That's the firmware I have used most of the time anyway, so when I had a horrible experience with 1.34 I downgraded back to 1.27. I am not sure why it's not working for you. At least I wanted to share that it is possible for some people to do that. I have used two different types of Aixun PC software. The newest one requires an Aixun account and has a left menu bar with "Devices", "Current", "Detect", "Tools", "Course", "Products" and "Service" options, and if I remember correctly that's the one I used to downgrade from 1.34 to 1.27. I believe i'm going to stick with that firmware until the apocalypse comes.
Leakage current is to be expected with any line powered appliance. Offhand I don't remember the allowed current between two grounded points/appliances but I think it's in the very low milliamps for safety. Appears the Aixun T3A soldering station sacrificed isolation/safety for performance at a price point.
Yes, I think the T3A is at a different level... I wonder if it's intentional (as in: yes we know but we don't care) or if they just missed that entirely. Thanks for watching!
I think the issue may be a ground loop. Here it is a requirement to tie ground to neutral. The thought is that the other two line along with neutral take care of the load & if any hot wires touch the case then it has a path back to the transformer instead of going to ground which could be you. However, there is always power on everything. I usually use a battery pack or a very nice power supply but I just got a new iron & was having issues with it. I decided to test after watching your video & found 3.5v AC. I separated my ground with a 970K resister. I don't want to poke my iron into a live circuit & become the point of discharge. The 970K should still allow static to discharge which I think is the point. I had this thought in one of your other videos but after you tested it wilt the speaker I was pretty sure the ground loop was the issue. I do not know the correct value. I was guessing 1M & 970K was the closest I have. My handle has a through hole & a pad. They had connected to the pad. I moved the wire to the through hole & cut the trace ap the pad. This is where I soldered a SMD. However a through resister & heat shrink going up to the clip would work also.
Hello - someone else has suggested that. My T3A is in a box, I've wasted enough time with it! If that resistor is all it takes, then (more) shame on Aixun as they could issue replacement handles to the affected users. Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 I am sorry to hear that. It looks like a nice little station. I also think it would make great content for a video. Not everyone has the same power set up & most people don't understand power. I'm no scholar myself. I've just been working with electric since I could walk. Even the scholars are still learning tho. People look at power as ether on or off but the truth is energy is everywhere & in everything. It is the potential between two thing & their ability to transfer that difference that we see. Most consumers buying item think everything needs "grounded". This in itself causes most electronic issues. The tip is probably grounded because that is what consumers demand. The best solution would be to match the protentional of the iron to what you are working on (how wrist straps work). You could put a insulated plug in the device to attach to the 0 plane of the device you are working on to keep them the same but the resistor allows a slow blead back to "ground" this way both items (if grounded) can be at the same potential. If you are done with it, like fixing things & this looks like it has promise. Would you consider sending it to me at a worthwhile price?
@@mtking2196 I am definitely looking for a buyer. But only if you are in the UK :) The thing is that I like repairing things but I am not an electronic designer so I'm happy to leave these matters to those more skilled than I am :)
@@tony359 I understand. I'm not either. I just know it is bad to have more then one ground. It is beyond what I can fathom to understand why. I do understand why it is bad to stick a ground into something like mains. This is what the resister is for. However if you want to sell a product you have to give people what they want even when they don't know what they want. To bad shipping would make the transfer prohibitive. I just bought a cheap t12 that I'm tinkering with to see if I can make it more usable. That's what made me watch your video. I was looking for the one I bought. 😁
Hello Tony! Happy New Year to you and your family! Great video - as always! I completely agree with you about the voltage issue. I was so flabbergasted - I always expected that no voltage is the norm - so I decided to check my soldering irons too. Results are not surprising: all of them are at 0V (Weller, Goot and Pine). My workbench is also grounded and the power strip is protected with a sensitive Type A RCD of 30mA. If the leakage occurs what do you think - would the RCD trip?
Thank you and happy new year to you too! I think the reason why my RCD doesn't trip is that that is leakage from the 24V supply of the power supply so that's not referenced to ground.
Yes, it just works and it's very reliable. They have a special barrel bit which I very much like for though-hole soldering. The bits might be expensive, but these last a long time.
I have a Aixun T420D and it does not have any voltage on the tip. Neither AC nor DC (measure with my Keithley 2000) mode. I cannot yet test overshoot, still waiting on my soldering iron temperature tester. The JBC tips have 3 connections, in front it has the earth and TC (thermocouple), in the middle heater and at the back heater & TC. The Aixun T3A is using a DC power supply. And the TC circuit is clearly not isolated. So they have no choice but to use the earth pin at the front as the TC positive. Because the rear most pin HAS to be 0 volts or you'll inject a voltage into your TC circuit (or vice-versa). Feel free to run through this theory yourself and propose other ways in which you can heat a JBC 3 pin cartridge with DC and no isolated TC measurement circuit and not run into this issue. So JBC rightly chose to run the heater with AC so that it is not referenced to the TC and thus the earth pin can be at 0 volts AC/DC. Then the rear most pin is the TC positive pin and one of the heater pins. The alternatively IMO is to use a isolated DC-DC supply with opto-couplers for the TC/ADC chip. Then your DC supply will be floating in reference to the TC. Also there is quite a hooha going on about JBC station build quality and them silently swapping out parts. But I can link plenty of videos where they have some REALLY bad quality soldering inside the JBC station, even using cheap Chinese caps. That is the reason I bought the Aixun T420D, it is clearly very well made inside, not to mention it can drive two channels and T245, T210 and T115 at a lower cost than this equivalent single channel station.
I cannot comment on JBC quality - I've heard that too. Mine works so far but it doesn't mean much! That said, I really didn't want to buy another Aixun. Yes, reviews say it's ok but the T3A was also supposed to be ok! :) In the end I stumbled into these issues while using the T3A normally, I didn't do anything special! I didn't know JBC was using AC to power the tip. Interesting. So the Chinese badly reverse engineered it? :) Anyways, thanks for your feedback about the 420, I hope it helps viewers in making their decision!
@@tony359 > That said, I really didn't want to buy another Aixun. Yes, reviews say it's ok but the T3A was also supposed to be ok! I don't make my living on electronics, so I could gamble, but if it was my job I would not, I get 100% why you chose the way you did :) > I didn't know JBC was using AC to power the tip. Interesting. So the Chinese badly reverse engineered it? :) Probably saving cost IMO, SMPS are so much cheaper to manufacture than bulky transformer that is specific to region after all. > In the end I stumbled into these issues while using the T3A normally, I didn't do anything special! That video actually inspired me to take a harder look at T420 after I initially dismissed it. That and alternative to T245 for SMD soldering (using T115 now). Anyway thanks for the video and brining a repeatable way for testing it :)
@@tony359 > So the Chinese badly reverse engineered it? :) While that is a common theme, in this specific case they probably started from the perspective of 'how can we make this as cheaply as possible' and ran into 'oh, that's why JBC didn't use SMPS but instead used xformer/AC powered heater tip' - but ran into that too far into production and, being a Chinese company, ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT ADMIT THEY SCREWED UP because that is social suicide in Chinese culture. So instead, they shipped it and proceeded with 'lalalalala, we can't hear you, there are no problems with our design, nope'. To be somewhat fair, they also (apparently? hopefully?) corrected this by using a transformer / AC-to-tip power supply in the newer T420 series, so it's not like they can't learn, just that they can't admit being wrong.
I switched my hot air station some time ago and did a comparison with my old one. th-cam.com/video/IVXnxbliBMg/w-d-xo.html Please bear in mind this is a relatively old video! Thanks for watching!
The “in between” clone is another AiXun: The AiXun 420D has a large toroidal transformer like the JBC. I’m really curious to see if it has a voltage leak too.
Wow, that was loud, which leads me to conclusion it is capable of delivering serious current into somehow grounded circuit. It's not only about the voltage on the soldering tip, it's much more about the current it is capable of. The speaker have internal impedance about 4Ω, which is relatively low, so that station have to be capable of delivering serious current into the circuit when shorted to ground. Furthermore, it's AC with sharp edges, so it is something relatively wide in spectrum, so it is, in fact, RF source. I don't think your board needs to be grounded to run into serious issues. What if you touch the input of some very sensitive RF component? (Not only) RF boards typically have a lot of copper connected to internal grounds, which makes huge coupling area to the real ground on higher frequencies. And the soldering tip is capable of delivering power because of its low output impedance. And this is, in my opinion, the point, where the real mordor begins.
I completely agree, there are so many scenarios where this could become a problem - I don't want those scenarios to be a possibility with my soldering iron! Thanks for watching and commenting!
I have one of these Aixun soldering stations and have had zero problems with it. I thought it strange that you are measuring any voltage at the tip of the soldering iron, let alone measuring any current as this would indicate that the tip is not grounded. I have just tested mine in the same way and have not seen these problems. Checking continuity, the tip of the iron is most definitely connected to mains earth, so I can only assume that there are either different revisions of PSU/Controller boards that have this problem, or that you messed up the earthing when you took the unit apart.
Mine is also connected to ground - but only when not heating. Try while cooling down the tip with a sponge, to trigger the heater. You won't see any voltage - or very little - when idle. I didn't take the unit apart, it's still factory sealed. Other have confirmed this behaviour so either there are different revisions, or something is wrong in our test procedure. And BTW, Aixun confirmed (one of their rare replies!) that my T3A is genuine! Let me know what you find and thanks for watching!
@@tony359 Just tried it again with the wet sponge and no problems. Tried it on grounded pcbs, no problem. I must admit that when I first got the unit I did remove the back cover to check that all mains side wiring and earthing was correct, then did the equivalent of a PAT test on it as the Chinese have a nasty habit of not earthing things correctly, if at all!
There must be multiple HW versions then. Others online have confirmed the same behaviour. If I check the tip for ground continuity, I have continuity - but only when idle or switched off. SDG also confirmed the "grounded PCB" behaviour on a different Aixun model. Also if this was a fault of my very station, I'd expect Axium to reply "it shouldn't do that, we'll replace it for you" :) So something stinks here :) Thanks for sharing your tests! PS: do you have a T3A? You're not talking about the 420, are you?
@@tony359 Definately the T3A with a T245 handle and old version of stand. The new version of stand like yours wasn't available when I bought mine in late July 2021.
I bought a JBC years ago and love it, but I don't love the price of the tips. This is good to know that Aixun is supplying lower cost tips that will fit my JBC. The tips we find on AliExpress are certainly not authentic JBC tips, but I don't care.
Well one of the tips I got with the station split in half when I pulled it out the handle. Yes, JBCs are stupidly expensive but I'm not sure Aliexpress is the answer. My Aoyue station is horrible with Aoyue tips - it's working nice with Hakko tips so I feel that the main part of a soldering iron is the tip - the station is just a heating element after all. And with the 245 it's not even that! :) But yes, they're too pricey...
@@tony359 Hoping that was a QC issue on only that tip. I just ordered three tips to check out their various sizes. $21 total for three tips. I can't even remember how much the JBC tips were, but they weren't $7 each.
they're £27-£20 each, a hold-up! But really the tip makes THE difference. Even with the Aixun I bought some JBC tips. Those will last forever and deliver the performance you need - but I am not going to argue that they're silly expensive :) Anything from Aliexpress is a "QC issue" :D
I was considering JBC for a long time , but the price skyrocketed last year into ridiculous heights so I went with the AiXun and it was worth the price even if it has a SMPS. The AiXun dual station has a toroidal transformer which I think beats the JBC any day.
The stations with the linear transformers appear to be good - though I haven't tested it myself and even the T3A was supposed to be "good" so... :) But yes, JBC prices are... too high!
No worries - I haven't tested them but I am told that those with a linear power supply inside are good. JBC definitely expensive - too expensive I shall say :)
My Aixun T420D died a little past a year of usage. I just replaced it with a JBC station. The voltage leak from the Aixun is concerning. Yes, it's only 1v, but it could potentially damage sensitive components like old MASK-ROMS or other memory modules.
Good job sir! As always ;) It's tempting to save some money buying cheaper chinese tools but many times it's better to buy branded ones... even they are still made in China. In my job I improve chinese products everyday so I know it in details :D
Oh that sounds very interesting! Good point about the Made in China tools! It must be difficult for a Western company not to have their products copied 1:1!
Hey Tony! I found your comments on the Eevblog forum and someone replied with a possible solution to the Aixun issues. They said you can stop temperature spikes and lessen tip current by grounding the station through a 10-15Ohm resistor. Would you be able to try this out and let us know if it works? The iron would be so great without these flaws!
I have a couple of questions about the JBC CD-2BHQF and CD-2BQF models: Does the JBC CD-2BHQF use a switching power supply rather than a traditional transformer? Is the CD-2BQF model equipped with a transformer for its power supply? Thank you for your time and assistance!
Thank you! I believe the T3A and T3B are more or less identical in construction but there have been reports of some T3A not showing this issue so who knows.
@@tony359How are you measuring with your multimeter to come to the conclusion that it’s grounded? The fact that the station misbehaves when the tip is connected to ground externally are a strong sign that it’s not actually grounded.
I'd agree with you but... Multimeter in resistance or continuity mode. One probe on the solder tip, the other on a ground wire coming from my mains socket. It reads 0 Ohm.
You did a great job, and the video is very useful, please reply whether Aixun replied to you? I'm considering buying a soldering station, not going to do anything fancy, just hobby stuff, but still, 1 volt is 1 volt too much), I also expect my gear to work as it should. Thanks
Since you nemtioned there is a new firmware out for the AiXun T3A, would you revisit the unit and test if they fixed any of the given issues. Or maybe seek DIY solutions to fix them, I can't shell out JBC money for the soldering station and so I have been looking at items from AiXun like model 420D (Dual handle) and a few other iterations. I want to save enough money to also get a hot air/SMD rework station.
I appreciate it would be nice to look deeper into this issue but I won't be doing a follow up on this station. I invested way too much time on it. The flaw cannot be fixed by software, it can be hidden or mitigated but not fixed. Opening the T3A is also mostly a destructive process so I'm afraid my contribution on this model won't go any further! But thanks for your comment!
As someone new to soldering, I really considered this station because of its size and capabilities. However after the review, I'm not entirely sure anymore. Would you be able to recommend any other stations like this that doesn't break the bank?
it's hard to say. I'm told the SUGON are good, the ones with a linear transformer inside, not the switching power supply. That said, the T3A was also supposed to be good so without seeing it by myself I cannot be 100% sure.
@@CanaleTH-camGeneralista I haven't gone for any yet, other priorities took over so I had to pause, and these aliexpress stations may be too overkill for my use case. Although ifixit released their own portable station which I'll look into
New 1.36 firmware is now available. Also, the only way I could get it to upgrade from my 1.35 version was to reinstall the latest software (V1.19.15) from their website. Everything looked normal after upgrading to 1.36 but I didn't do any in-depth testing.
I heard about 1.36, my T3A is in a box so I don't want to check, I wasted enough time on that! :) But I doubt this issue could be resolved via FW. It can be mitigated/hidden but not solved. THanks for your comment!
@@tony359 -- As I mentioned before, I'm not experiencing any of the problems you are seeing even on 1.35. If you ever drag your T3A out again, try grounding the device you are soldering on to the ground jack on the back of your T3A and see if that helps. Also, I wonder if this could be caused by your T3A being plugged into outlet on a different ground path than the device you are working on. If so, there might be some ground currents at work here. All of my stuff is plugged into the same power strip so no chance for ground current to flow.
@@rpsmithNo, the ground is the same. This issue has been confirmed by others so it's not just me. The voltage is also a tangible measurement. Others say their station does not show the same issue so I don't know what to think. Either there are multiple versions available or I do not know.
@@tony359 -- So does the tip of the iron always show a small amount of voltage above ground or just when you reference it to the device you are wanting to work on that is connected to ground? I'll check my tip voltage next time I'm in the shop.
Yes, many have suggested that. Wouldn't that mean the tip is not grounded though? Because - believe it or not - I do read ground when I check continuity with the tip!
@@tony359 -- I would just ground the T3A via the ground jack on the back through a 1m ohm resistor to bleed off any static. Also, I did the speaker test on my 6 month old T3A and heard nothing and the current didn't spike and the temp didn't change and I was not using an isolation transformer. I'll do a more thorough test when I get some free time.
That is so weird. Did they change the design and made it so massively worse? I'm not aware of massive differences in the design. Aixun themselves told me - one of their rare replies - that my station is an Aixun genuine.
¡Hola! No lo he intentado, pero me gustaría que mi punta de soldadura esté conectada a tierra, así que no creo que sea una solución viable. ¡Gracias por ver!
I really enjoyed the aixun since the last time we spoke but while working on a ps5 I noticed that the handle went haywire on me a few times. The temps kept on climbing and wouldn't go down even within the cradle. I had to power down. I really do like the feature of being able to switch tips on the fly but this machine has too many unacceptable problems now I wished I had saved money and went straight to the jbc. I still love my hakko but getting spoiled by that quick heat up time, quick switch and tip sizes I think I might have to upgrade again to the jbc because that 245 is nice but I also need smaller precision with the 210 & 115 alternatives. Idk if I should go the cheap route again and get the t3b or a mechanic soldering station.
You are exactly where I was a few weeks ago. I switched to the T3A even though my Hakko clone was ok. I immediately got in love with the power, the quick power up and mostly the quick change tips. When I decided the T3A was too flawed for me, I couldn't just go back to the Hakko so I wondered whether I should try another cheapo one or go straight for one which worked. What I am asking myself now is how come I started thinking "I'll get the £30 KSGER" station" and ended up spending £500?? :D Thanks for watching and let me know what you decide! Apparently if you avoid SMPS soldering stations you should be fine. But I cannot be 100% sure :)
@tony359 Haha, yes! 😄 it happens brother going 0 to 100. I got so used to it that last night before bed, I was really thinking about the hakko and noticed that it's just taking up space on my desk not being used, mind you I used to use it everyday! I would love to own a jbc, but right now, it's out of my budget, but I feel like I just might have to make that sacrifice and bite the bullet. I was also looking at the new hakko fx one even though heat up time is a little slower it is reliable but what I don't like is that the dual channel one you have to purchase separately and doesn't come with anything like the single channel one and it's already expensive but I'll give it some more thought and look around. I'll touch base back with you once I decide and with updates.
Mine does the same when I was reworking a cross over filter while it was still connected to my amp which was turned off. I could hear the pwm sound, though not as loud. Other than that I always disconnect from mains before soldering, though Indid forget it a few times but had no issues so far. I'll test that temperature overshoot thing, I hadn't noticed it before.
@@tony359 I agree with you, though I haven't had any issues with it damaging something. Most ICs in retro computers can easily take 1V. I've done an ReAmiga1200 with this soldering station and it works perfectly. I usually use a 1k ohm resistor on the ground lead of my oscilloscope to prevent short issues, this included. I'm considering getting a differential probe, that would solve that issue as well. Only thing I have to remember is to flip the switch on the power strip when soldering. It's a hobby for me. I can imagine for a business you'd pick a real JBC, no question.
Definitely not an issue for retro computers. However there should be some cheap options which don’t make a speaker sound. I’m told the ones with a linear transformers are ok. I just consider the T3A unfit for purpose. And sorry, I know you have it. But I also have it 😂 The JBC is overpriced for sure. I’ve got one as I needed a reliable one and couldn’t afford time and money to test further Chinese copycats 🙂
@@tony359 Yep I'll use what I have with issues and all until it bites me bad enough to upgrade, which sometimes happen and I do. I also have another Chinese transformer based soldering iron and it doesn't interfere with the T3A when 'duo' soldering. But it has integrated pre heater and hot air iron and isn't very portable, and doesn't heat up quickly nor has good power handling with larger copper mass targets. So if I need to move to my floor standing speakers I rather pickup the T3A and deal with the hum ;) I fully understand you picking the JBC, you've reached that point that it bothers you enough to make the splurge. I probably got already 300 euros in JBL original tips lol so who knows!
You can try to connect the negative output from the power supply to earth. This may solve the problem or it may introduce a new one. Do it at your own risk. Nice video btw. Regards
Thanks for your comment! I'd rather not disassemble the unit, which is not easy to disassemble BTW. I am not trying to "fix" it, it's not broken, it's flawed :) I'll leave that task to people more experienced than me! Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 it's more because it's way more aggressive on the tip than the other methods. I mostly use C210 and some of them have quite a short lifespan even when taking care of them.
Oh I see what you mean. "Use the wool only when necessary". Yes of course, that's what I do. I've recently bought the C210 handle for the JBC and I feel the small tip I got could be damaged by the sponge! I don't think I would ever venture it in the metal wool! :)
What about disasembling the aixun and cutting the ground line going into soldering tip. Then solder a shottky diode so that no voltage will come from the tip. The tip will still be grounded.
It's been suggested. I just would like not to disassemble it because it's mostly a destructive process - the front panel is glued and I believe the PCB is also glued to the chassis. I'm sure there might be a mitigation but there is a long thread on EEVBlog and I don't think a definite fix has come up yet. Thanks for watching and for commenting!
@@tony359 actually it is not so hard to dissasembly that station. The board is not glued. I also have this station and I opened it couple months ago. I accidentally blowed up a mosfet because I touched the iron tip with 230V AC 😁
@tony359 I have ts100 now and it's not powerful enough. Looking for a soldering station under $100, can you recommend one? I'm currently choosing between yihua 939d+, wep 927- IV and aixun t3a.
Hey Tony, just a quick question for you unrelated to this specific video. What headset and audio transmitter are you using here? Is it some kind of XLR transmitter you carry around?
@@tony359 oooh, that's clever. I want to go wire free myself so I'll definitely look into that for sure. Thanks kindly! Also, it's a shame about that soldering station with the 1V at the tip. Not ESD safe. Eek!
Glad i sww this my trusty old weller, ec1200 i think, has died and ive been looking at these cheap controlers that will drive hakko and jbc hand pieces... the problem now is do they all do this and if so is it fixable???
No, I am told other brands are ok. Look for a unit with a linear transformer. That should at least remove the "voltage injector" feature! :) Thanks for watching!
No, unfortunately this unit is not easy to open and I am not skilled to design circuits - I can repair them but this is not a fault! :) I'll leave this task to more skilled people! Thanks for watching!
Hello, the Aixun T3A station all have voltage at the tips of the soldering iron or yours was defective and that fault could be repaired. I want to buy an Aixun. I would recommend it.
There should be NO voltage at the tip and not all Aixun have that problem. My station is not faulty, others have confirmed the same behaviour. I do not recommend the T3A. Thanks for your comment!
I don’t think this behaviour can be ‘corrected’ - my understanding is that units with a linear power supply are unaffected. Cannot remember which one of the two it is.
I can't really think of anything that 1V could damage but yikes at that current spike. Unfortunately there's no way in hell I can afford a JBC so guess I'll be sticking with my cheap Aoyue.
Well the voltage is one thing. But, I see you're still running 1.33 firmware. 1.35 came out in November of 23 that claims to " optimize 245 control heating" and "optimize the automatic temperature compensation function of 245". There's even another firmware that came out after that. I would be curious to see the effects of any of the new firmware. Frankly I don't expect an 80$ knock off to perform on the level with a 350$+ machine. But, if I can get somewhere near it's performance with some kind of reliability I would take it.
There are mentions on the 1.34FW either in this video or in the other one where I review the T3A th-cam.com/video/B7jLpHgR7fI/w-d-xo.html From 1.34 onwards the station is unable to keep some tips at a stable temp and - most importantly - the ground issue is covered up, the display NEVER shows anything above the set temp. The issue is hardware, there is no SW fix that can 100% resolve it I'm afraid. I agree a cheaper station doesn't have to be perfect but that amount of current flowing from the tip is dangerous I'm afraid - The tip going +100C over the set temperature is just pretty bad :) I suppose there is a limit to when things become unacceptable. When it comes to current leak, I'd say 0V and 0A is my limit :) Thanks for watching!
Because it cannot be opened without destroying the front panel. What I’m showing here is a known issue. It’s due to the way the power supply is wired, there is no easy solution. It is grounded but still…
@@tony359 So the case is grounded? But what about the iron itself? Because if there's positive voltage on the iron that means it's not ESD safe. This is just crazy to me!
@@tony359 This is so weird! I was in the market last year to purchase a soldering station with new technology, heating element in the tip rather than in the handle, and i came across this station but i wasn't really feeling it. So i went with a T12 station from Yihua, it works well, and it is limited compared to the other T12 stations which you can set different temps for different tips.
I don't solder grounded boards and so far my Axiun has soldered 50k+ worth of product so no complaints from me. I accept that in different circumstances the concerns you have highlighted might be a deal breaker, but just remember the price point and what, for many, a real bargain it is.
It could be free but when the tip reaches 550C while the display says 360C, that's not a bargain, it's a scam! :) Imagine if I hadn't downgraded to 1.33, I might have never noticed I was frying my boards. So I'm sorry but no, I respect your opinion but I cannot call it a bargain!
@@tony359 All I can tell you is that I have soldered approximately 1500 PCBs and never burnt a track or component. I don't dwell longer than necessary to flow the joint. For me it's a bargain, but I fully appreciate your point of view. I think if you wanted a very high spec machine with no flaws you might expect to have to pay a lot more.
I have to disagree with you I'm afraid. Yes, you can solder ok with a tip at 500C, it won't necessarily mean you're damaging things 100% of the time but that's not how it should work. There are stations out there which don't show that issue and are priced similarly. A "flaw" could be 20C overshooting. Not 150C! :)
@@tony359 We are not disagreeing about what you are saying about the iron, I believe want you say. I am only sharing my experience and I have soldered a lot of boards, 45 today alone and I will probably do the same tomorrow. If I touch something with a soldering iron at 500c the thing I touch does not reach 500c instantaneously, only if I continuously keep contact. When I solder I only make contact until the joint flows and I imagine it's the same for most people. You don't just keep heating a joint for the sake of it and so an iron which overheats in certain circumstances does not unduly bother me. Your research is sound and your content is good, but I am just making the point that it is not a deal breaker for me, and I am very pleased I bought this station which has served me well and I am sure it would be a good buy for many others. Anyway, what stations do you prefer at this price point?
I appreciate your opinion, thanks for your constructive reply! I see what you mean but if we solder at (usually) 360C there is a reason! Adhesives on PCBs are designed for 300C, not 500C. Obviously your pads are not going to instantly detach from your boards if you touch them with a 500C tip but you'll be weakening the pad by doing that. Whether that has an immediate or delayed effect it depends on the quality of the PCB and many parameters. Chances are nothing will ever happen of course. But that doesn't mean it's ok to solder at 500C - or the international standards would say "set your tip to 350-500C" :) Also, the Aixun does not always go to 500C, so I appreciate it's not so common to have the tip at 500C. In my case, when de-soldering SMD caps using two irons, sometimes I have caps on ground planes and I *have* to keep the irons on the pads for 5-6 seconds before the solder under the capacitor melts. And when I see "500" on the T3A... that's not good!! I do respect your view but I stand mine - I don't want 500C on my tip, ever :) I'm told the Sugon A9 is good and apparently even the Aixun 420 is good. Both have linear transformers. I believe they are a bit more expensive though. But the T3A with those flaws is not an option I'm afraid. Thanks again for your kind words :)
@@tony359 My heartfelt thanks to you. Does this problem also occur with the latest T3A firmware? I wonder why manufacturers don't fix this issue sooner. thank you!
I purchased the T3B last week and it works completely fine for me. There is no voltage leak while grounded. Firmware 1.15 But I cannot tell anything about temp spikes because I got nothing to meassure it.
JBC use a linear power supply, I understand that this way the supply is completely separated from mains while Aixun - if not mistaken - links mains ground to the negative of the SMPS? I might be incorrect though.
@@tony359 what soldering iron around 200CAD would you recommend for someone like me? I have a pinecil v2 but for some big ground pins and lead-free solder it's not enough! I also want something with a dock that allows me to quickly change the tips to a sharp one for SMD and then a different one for say ICs Also, I thought both SMPS and Linear (big transformer) are isolated? I just thought that SMPS just uses higher frequencies vs 60hz
@@ameliabuns4058 I'm not sure what to recommend I'm afraid. I went with the JBC as I had spent enough time after these irons. It's good but definitely expensive. 245 tips are too big for SMD. The JBC can use 210 too but it's a separate handle.
@@tony359 oh the T420 is really expensive but can support all the handles and has an isolated PSU, tho the T320 can also handle both 210 and 245. I also hate the fact that they need software updates with their super sketchy software.
Good question! I think it could be possible, but at that power level you would need a pretty big brick. Maybe the size beekeepers use to affix wax boards to wire harnesses on wax frames. My father has one and that monster of the transformer is over 3 kg. And properly isolated one are bloody expensive.
I'm thinking about that too. There are 24v 200W troidal transformers and they are small enough. Will a bridge rectifier be enough to get clean DC voltage?
The speaker has one lead connected to ground. The PCB is grounded - not the pin. The PCB was not powered of course. I explained why earth can be in the way from 1:30
@@tony359 ok, gnd is gnd, but still not clear when you touch pcb groujd pins and temperature goes 500° That pcb htoundvis not connected to any other ground or solder station box. I have Weller but also china TS12 and I use only china,much better then weller,sound strange but it is for me better. I workbon car electronics,engine ecu,instrument cluster,airbags,immobiliser and never damaged any board
I'm sorry I am struggling to follow you. I am not touching a ground pin. I'm touching "a" pin of a "grounded" PCB. This is a flaw with the T3A, other stations of course are unaffected.
Does anyone know of a cheap 200W alternative, but without this problem? I was considering this station, luckily I didn't get it. 1V at that amperage is dangerous for electronics. We must repair not destroy
I'm hearing that anything with a linear transformer inside doesn't have that issue - but I cannot guarantee that, even the T3A was supposed to be good!
@@tony359I don't know the aixun operating system, but the problem is serious. In the right conditions, accidental contact with a ground electrode is enough We already have a voltage that biases a transistor. If someone works with expensive components (ex amplifier) they risk doing serious damage. It's scandalous that the producer doesn't show up. It is not a problem that can be solved via software, the project must be revised
well I buy one t3a and some time after I sell it and buy the aixun t420d and I am.inlove with it and this one use one toroidal transformer and works perfectly if you can try to compare with your jbc and probably the history will be much different and I also buy one jbc and my station broke it reboots itself time to time and I can't solve the problem with jbc because I am from brasil and they not have support here my jbc now is a backup of my aixun t420d
JBC don't have support in Brasil? Wow! Yes, I've heard the 420 is much better but after having so much headache with the Aixun - and with Aixun - I don't want to trust them anymore. Glad to hear it works well though! Thanks for watching, Tchau!
@@tony359colocar 2 diodos rectificadores en serie con el cable que alimenta a la punta del cautin, de esa forma el cautin queda aislado de la tierra y el voltaje que entrega el cautin respecto a tierra baja a cero voltios
I'd rather not disassemble the handle or the unit - chances are it's a destructive process (definitely for the main unit). I'll leave these tasks for more skilled people! I can repair things, but this is really not a fault! Thanks for the suggestion though!
@@tony359 Besides, I also solder like you, i.e. with two soldering irons at the same time, then I would need two JBC stations, and I also use a self-made soldering tip, which is not possible with JBC.
I wonder if that voltage leak has anything to do with the switching psu aixun has... I am tired of all these Chinese crap products that have flooded the market the last 20 years... Cheers from Greece, keep up the great content, happier new year! Jim
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
"You should never have voltage at the tip" Truly words to live by. 😆
More than you know! I know a tech that used to work on CRTs on a grounded bench. While standing over the CRT he made contact with high voltage with his hand and it went through his "tip" to the bench ;)
I'm not in market of buying soldering stations but I wish other products reviewers are diligent as you are. In any case very entertaining video. Thank you! ❤
Thank you for your kind words!
Tony. I know you are considering not continuing to make videos. I sincerely hope you dont.
I know others have said this, but your channel is super underrated, as you produce absolutely fantastic content. Pacing, level of information, the content itself.. If it where a restaurant, 3 Michelin stars, for sure!
What im trying to say, keep it in mind. And if you do decide to not to continue, i hope youll still post from time to time, fully on your own terms. Because, you sir, is a master of your work!
And this video shows. Calling out a fatal flat that generally isn't known. Perfection!!!
PS: But if you decide to stop, i support you in your decision. Only you can judge whether or not it makes sense to you. It's the only thing that matters. :D
@@RetroPC-vy3kt yeah.. The platform is over-saturated big time, on almost every genre..
Also, I know it as he stated in one of his videos in december or november i think.. I totally get why it is up for consideration..
The low numbers are criminal when the content rivals and exceeds most other retro-tech channels.
Thank you all for your nice words and concerns! Yes, it can be demotivating to see a video I worked on for so many days doing the bare minimum in terms of views and showing very few comments. More recent videos have been more active and this tremendously boosts my motivation! :)
We can indeed debate whether the "retro" sector is over-saturated - considering my last two videos are not about "retro" and are doing so much better.
That said, I'd like to reassure you that I don't have plans to stop making videos in the foreseeable future. Did I say that in December?
Thank you so much for sending your support! It's really appreciated!
Tony
I always appreciate practical tests like the speaker making noise when the solder iron touches the wire. Excellent review and thanks Tony!
Thank you! Sometimes it's easier than showing oscilloscope screens! :)
@@tony359 Hehe - yes. Oscilloscopes are still a bit of a mystery to me :)
the "training" video is still on my list!
@@bitsundbolts Same here :(
The fact that the speaker made any noise at all proves that enough energy comes through the tip of this soldering iron to blow up any kind of micro electronics! Totally unacceptable, also the fact that the temperature of the tip can randomly go up to 500 degrees is also totally unacceptable! The JBC (from Spain, it is NOT from the UK!) is one of the best soldering irons I have ever worked with, the speed with which you can change to another tip, and the speed it heats the tip up is phenomenal!
I'm just a hobbyst and I didn't turn it into an investigation, but I had that Aixun station turning on the LEDs when I solder them onto a grounded board. Now, it might be enough to flow half a miliamp to get an LED lighting up, but it definitely needs more than 1V. I think white LEDs need about 2V to get about 1mA, since they're based on blue LED covered with phosphor layer - so I think it's fair to assume that, while the voltage leak is 1V constant, there are up to at least 2V spikes. I'm talking about smd power LEDs 5*5mm about 10-20W, consuming 3-5 amps at normal operation (flashlights, car headlights etc), not those 50mA straw LEDs.
Anyways, 2V IS enough to light up an LED, but it also might be enough to kill a GPU, for example, if there's nothing limitting current on that 1V (except for, like 0.00 something Ohms of that GPU)
Maybe it's just me and my Aixun. Who knows.
Nah, it's not just your Aixun unfortunately. This has been confirmed by others.
I thought you don't need much to turn on an LED, even my Fluke multimeter in diode mode can turn them on. Oh but you're talking about power LEDs.
I think the bottom line here is that the maximum acceptable voltage and current leaking from a soldering iron is 0.0V and 0.0A. Full stop. :D
(* fair enough, I think JBC rates their stations for 200mV maximum - which I cannot measure anyways - but 1V and 1.4A definitely cannot be acceptable and I refuse to use such soldering iron for my boards)
@@tony359 Power LEDs require the same voltage to be turned on as every LED, they are just able to draw high current, but light up at low current just as every LED. Constant current regulated devices, but still, we do know that white led draws 3V at 1A, or maybe 3.2V at 3A, this curve starts at maybe 2V - 0.1 mA.
Multimeter in diode mode pushes some voltage through the component and measures voltage drop, they should be able to light up LEDs.
The thing here is - when you put voltage differential of 1V over an LED - nothing happens. You need about 2V for a white LED to be able to pull some minimal ammount of current - less than a miliamp is needed to light any LED up. In case of red LED, 2 volts would be enough for it to draw maybe 20-50 mA, in case of IR LEDs, 2V is more than operating voltage, in case of UV LEDs, probably couldn't draw anything. There's actually relationship between lightwaves and voltage, it's actually fascinating :D Physics...
But, here, we're talking about white LEDs, which is basically blue LED with phosphor allowing white glow - this kind of LED works at around 3.4V 5A, this kind of LED has no chance of showing any signs of life at 1V, and it's just starting to glow at 2V. So, when I'm soldering anode side and see it intermitently glowing, I know at least 2V is jumping accross it. Intermitently, as I move the iron, with obvious spike when touching the anode first time...
Sorry for my lausy English :D
I saw other reviews of this Aixun station, and nobody was mentioning about this voltage leak. For me it is a deal breaker and unacceptable as well. I must admit. I was thinking about buying this Aixun, but now? not a chance.
Glad I helped you making a decision! As an Aixun customer, I was also disappointed to see this massive design flaw of this unit... Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 I have been watching reviews of the Aixun as well and it seemed very tempting, strange nobody else picked up on this. Do you have a recommendation for someone without the JBC budget?
Very interesting that no one else has picked it up but also that you had terrible customer service. Are you going to send it back? If not, let’s think how we can remove that voltage risk…
@thomas - when you buy something from Aliexpress, there is no "sending back" :) I have involved the seller, they just directed me to Aixun. It's a common behaviour from Aliexpress sellers, they waste your time hoping you drop the case! :)
@lemagreen Someone seems to suggest that older models are less affected. I don't know what to think, all I know is that I went soldering my Shuttle 591P motherboard on a pre-heating plate and the T3A started flashing "NO TOOLS" :)
you can always use an Isolating Transformer, this way, the voltage leak is not a problem anymore.
i'm pretty sure, you 'll not have anymore the temp issue and i don't believe any firmware will correct this problem
So glad i just came across your videos about this issue. I was just about to purchase this station but frequently work on grounded boards when they are on an oscope.
There you go!
I'm reading about other stations with voltage leakage at the tip - it seems to be a design flaw caused by the mains ground used in the secondary circuit. I have a feeling the T3A is not the only one misbehaving. Other stations might have been better at hiding this issue. If you think about it, if I had installed 1.35 straight away (which doesn't flash "NO TOOLS" anymore and hides the temp spike), I wouldn't have noticed. And not everybody has a soldering iron thermometer.
In short: be careful of what you buy! I hear that a linear transformer is a better choice :)
Thanks for watching!
Many thousand thanks for your honest and interesting video of Aixun T3A, wich I will not buy because of its leaking voltage and other severe flaws.
You are very welcome and I am very happy to hear that my video has helped you making an educated decision! :)
Thanks for the review Tony. Very useful for someone like me looking for a good soldering station. Sincerely appreciate it !!!
You’re very welcome!
Thanks for the videos on the subject. I for myself am fine with not working on grounded PCBs, but I hope someone figures out why that voltage leak is introduced in the first place and maybe finds a mod to fix the issue.
Opening the T3A is challenging :) I'd be more inclined to find a station which doesn't have that issue. I was told the Sugon is good - but I just didn't want to experiment more... Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 I guess the Sugon/Aifen A9Pro and the AiXun T320 would be the closest contenders, I wonder if they have the same problems.
The 320 does - it's still SMPS power supply. I'm told the Sugon is very good - I just didn't want to spend quite some money to "test" again. I really needed something reliable and that could be trusted. But maybe the Sugon is the JBC killer!
Have you tried probing the pinout of the connector to see which pins connect to the tip vs. heater, and which ones have voltage on them?
No, I did not do much troubleshooting. I repair things, I don't have the skills to design things. I'm happy to leave that to others :) There is a very long thread about the T3A on EEVBlog, there are a few people looking into this issue.
Very intresting comparison it shows how much important ground connection is when working properly
Indeed - though you'd be surprised to hear that the tip is grounded - at least when the heater is off.
Phew, thanks for the diligent testing and reporting.
You're very welcome!
Hello Tony,
I heared about your Video arround 2 weeks ago the first time and was a bit shocked. I bought mine T3A arround 3/4 year ago and never soldered on grounded stuff in this time. Today I finally found time to test it on my station.
I can't reproduce your failures on my station. I measured the tip of the soldering tip to the main ground and got about 0,X Ohm. I did the same with the ground point of the soldering station. Same results. As next step I used a Aixun DT1 Temp. measure device, set the soldering station to 150° C and measured it. I reached arround 140°C on the DT1 and station told me 150°C. Than I took a wire which was connected to the soldering station ground and pushed it against the tip of the tip. No Temp Spikes came. To be on the safe side I connected the wire directly to the main ground of the power outlet and guess what? No Temp Spikes on the DT1 or the soldering station.
I dont know what is wrong with your station but mine works fine. Is maybe the tip broke you was testing with? Or maybe your whole station got a failure.
That Aixun Support is not responding I can confirm too.
I got once a reply before I bought the station but since than no response on questions :(
I'm not sure if I can measure any voltages on the tip with my equipment but I will try it later. Hope this might helps.
Regards, Pad
Hi, thanks for your comment. It's not ground per se which is causing the issue - at least in my experience. It's "some pins when the PCB is connected to ground". Don't ask me why. Bear in mind that from 1.34 onwards the software seems to be hiding the issue so you won't see those spikes on the display. What I am experiencing has been reported by others too - also other reviewers following my discovery. That said, someone doesn't seem to be able to reproduce the issue so either there are different versions of that station or... I don't know :)
For the voltage and current you just need a multimeter.
In the end, if it works for you then happy days :) Thanks for the comment and for sharing your experience!
Okay I just measure the tip voltages against the power outlet ground. I got with DC V Measurement a spike of 0,03V and with AC V a spike up to 0,18V with my multimeter. Its a Gossen Metrahit Pro. A pretty expensive high quality one here in Germany. I dont got a oscilloscope for more accurate measurements. Hope it helps to find the problem with your station.
@@tony359 Hey, that are all really strange behavoirs.
I just connected the station to my pc and used the Aixun Software. Its telling me I got Hardware Version 1.0 and Software 1.35, when it got delivered it was 1.31 or 1.32.
Newest Version it offers me at the moment is 1.36.
I got the EU Version of the Station with 230V
I heared that the new software version should hide the bug, that is why I worked with a seperate temp measuring device (Aixun DT1). Its for calibrating the tips.
When it really goes crazy to 500°C+ the device should notice some change. But adding a grounded wire to the tip for 30-60 secs let nothing happen. I saw your videos how fast the temp. goes higher and higher.
Sadly I dont got any old PC mainboard laying arround to test it there.
I find it a really strange bug and have no idea why this is or should happen.
All I can say at the moment is that I'm pretty happen that I dont have the same bugs.
I only need this station for some soldering 1-2 times a year to repair something. Its not like I need to use it every day for work.
But what I have to solder this year worked really really good. So I'm pretty happy with the station. :)
Again you're not the only one saying their stations don't exhibit the same problem. But touching ground by itself shouldn't trigger the problem. Thanks for the feedback!
Thank you for the review Tony, I was expecting is to be low ish quality but the voltage leak and temperature overshoot are crazy
You're very welcome - I was also disappointed, I bought it for myself and I cannot use it anymore...
@@tony359 what if you power it through an isolation transformer, that might solve the current leak, allowing it to be used as a second soldering iron (perhaps).
@@martindejong3974 Maybe but a 200W isolation transformer is expensive! :) Also, it would make your tip floating which is also not great.
@@tony359觉得贵 自己动手制作一个😂
Yes, 1V at 1.8A is ridiculous and completely unacceptable but i want to know why. Why is is it doing that? Could it be hardware modded to fix this issue? Even if the PCB you're working on is isolated from ground, that leakage could damage ICs and FETs.. i think its something to do with the SMPS. The JBC will have separate windings on the transformer for the control circuit and the iron and uses an opto isolator and triac to switch the power to the iron. The aixun probably does not.
Glad you agree! I've read around that it could be because Aixun are using ground as a reference on the 24V DC side - might be mistaken though, don't quote me! :)
The issue is that opening the T3A is not easy, the front panel is glued and often breaks when removed...
1V at 1.8A : this is definitively a power supply and not a soldering station 😁
I really appreciate your time and video with a real review showing the real issues. I can't believe it is putting out that much power through the tip of the iron. Sorry you got burned (no pun intended) on this one but solid effort letting the rest of us know about the issues.
My pleasure. I really dislike then manufacturers don’t step forward and do the right thing. Thanks for watching!
Great review/ comparison. Thanks Tony. ✅
1.7 Amps.! 😲 Thats a welder Not a soldering iron. 😁
I only use Irons that have Ceramic Heaters, 100% isolated. Just one tip, 3mm conical chisle.
For heavy jobs I use a small or large gas irons.
Maintenance / Usage tip. DON'T TOUCH THE TIP OR BARREL.
Hot or cold, just don't. The acid and oil from your skin eats away at the metal, this effect is amplified by the heating and cooling cycles. Gloves or recycled paper towel.
I still use my first iron, bought as used from an old gentlemen who schooled me for an hour on how to care for your tools.
Its 55yrs old now.
it's a soldering iron with integrated voltage injector :D
I see what you mean, my Hakko tips have been going strong for 10 years now.
i've got an old hakko clone with a temp knob and a digital readout. lets me fine tune without having to resort to dealing with annoying button combos that a lot of these newer stations tend to use.
unless i can find a more modern system that uses the same general idea, not so much. the ksger t12 units and similar come close to the point, but also really don't. because if things glitch out the rotary encoder isn't going to be of much help.
i'm probably always going to want manual control of the temp, i think.
and yes, the voltage/amperage output on the tip is of any unit is... beyond unacceptable. a few mili or micro volts are probably irrelevant, but half a volt and half to one and a half amps? noooooo way.
You know, I also looked at some older analogue JBC... I thought that maybe removing the electronics from the equation was a good thing! Why everything these days has to have a colour LCD and a firmware? :) Sometimes simpler is better. Thanks for watching!
Rework/hobby/home use is usually very different from industrial use. The reason the industrial soldering equipment lacks on the UI department is due to the station is set up to a single task on a production line for the vast majority off the time. And also usually, the station UI is locked down with a pin, so the operator cannot fiddle with the settings. A great UI experience is simply not on the top of the list. Great ergonomics, superb soldering performance, that is what JBC is about. And in my opinion, JBC delivers this in spades. I put up with the UI being a bit... awkward.
I've got the same issue with the Aixun T320. What I have learnt is that the tip is not actually grounded. It's low resistance, but not a direct short to main ground, and appears to be 0.15Ohms measured from tip to IEC mains ground. When measuring the the ground port on the back to IEC mains ground, its about = 0.03ohms. This is measured with a calibrated low ohms meter, not a DMM. 1v would be around 150mA, so in the ball park. Not sure if this is related to heating or thermocouple measurement tho.
Yes, that is probably what's happening as if the tip is grounded it shouldn't show a voltage on it! My DMM can only go down to 0.5 Ohm. Thanks for sharing your experience - too bad the T3A turned out to be like that!
I’m glad I watched this! I was just about to buy one! Out of interest have you tried the latest firmware updates. It wouldn’t be interesting to know if they’ve addressed any of the issues.
no, I sold it :)
I doubt they can "address" anything via FW. The thermocouple gets blind. You can "mitigate" but not "address" IMHO. Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 Thanks Tony. I feel like I've dodged a bullet with that one. The 500 degree overshoot was scary!!!
I wished I'd known before purchasing! :) Happy to hear you've decided to look elsewhere! :)
i got myself a jbc CDEB recently and i love it
Amazing, thanks for watching!
Se solo l'avessi visto prima questo video! Ho comprato qualche giorno fa una T3A, e incuriosito mi sono messo a ricercare in giro per il web. Devo dire che mi hai fatto un po' pentire del mio acquisto, però per i lavori che dovrò farci non dovrebbe essere un grande problema. Speriamo che in futuro si riesca a trovare una qualche soluzione. Grazie mille Tony, saluti dall'Italia 👋🏻
Mi dispiace! :)
Per uso "normale" va anche bene. Ma io mi trovo sempre il ground di mezzo e avere la punta che schizza a 500C proprio non mi va. Finche' non hai la terra di mezzo diciamo che va bene - anche se qualcuno ha suggerito che il fatto di trovarsi 1V a 1.8A su un PCB potrebbe non essere gradito da taluni integrati molto sensibili.
Fai delle prove comunque, ci sono diversi utenti che sostengono di non avere alcuna tensione sulla loro T3A - sembrerebbe che vi siano varie versioni HW? Io so solo che la mia e' originale Aixun, me lo ha confermato la Aixun stessa.
In bocca al lupo! :)
per caso hai fatto le stesse prove viste nel video..?
This is due to the Y-capacitor between the pri and sec windings of SMPS. Low-frequency current flows through it, throubh the negative output bus and the ungrounded body of the tip at the moments when the state of the diodes of the input rectifier bridge is open. The chinese connect the tip body to the earth with 1MOhm resistor only to remove the static charge.
Yes that’s something I’ve read around. But I’m reading 0 Ohm continuity between the tip and mains ground, not 1MOhm. How is that possible?
Thanks for watching and for commenting!
@@tony359 In that case I think the current through the Y-capacitor and tip takes a shorter path to "global" point of earth than through the ground wire in the soldering iron's power cable. This may be due to the location of the sockets in the extension cord or the thickness of the ground wires.
Remember that other consumers connected in series in the extension cord create a voltage drops on the serial ground bus at the same moments when the diodes of their rectifiers are switched. Because of this, there will be different potentials at different points on the serial ground bus.
My second thought. The JBC has a separate wire in the handle cable for grounding the tip directly into the handle on the petal. Whereas Aixun grounds the negative bus on the DIN connector. Because of this, an additional potential is created on the tip, caused by a voltage drop on the negative wire of the handle during the flow of heater load current.
I didn't consider that a small resistance to ground might cause a potential. Thanks for your comments!
On the T3A, the mains earth is directly connected to the DC- on the main PCB. The issue here is the JBC cartridges share a common connection between the thermocouple and the heater, when you touch the cartridge on something earthed, you create a potential on the thermocouple input which looks like a low temperature.
There's always compromises buying cheap stuff. That's part of the fun of being a hobbyist. Professionals don't care if they spend a bit more on the tools they use for their business as that cost is neglibile in the long run anyway for them. It's very important to be aware of the caveats with the knockoffs and cheaper stuff, though, so videos like this are good to inform people about the issues. I am keeping my T3A, as I'm aware of its shortcomings and make sure I don't run into any trouble. I am staying on an older firmware version though as the "fix" they did for temperature overshoot is just ridiculous as you seem to agree with. Their algorithm must be something like this: display_temp = min(measured_temp, set_point_temp); LUDICROUS.
I wish I could downgrade - mine doesn't take anything below 1.30-something I think, the display would get unreadable. I guess they might have swapped the display driver.
I tried staying away from those caveats but I really couldn't. The SMD removal was the last straw: I cannot mitigate that! I had to stop soldering for 10-15 seconds waiting for the tip to get back to the set temperature. Of course not everybody needs to de-solder hundreds of SMD caps with two irons but I like to think that my station can do that if I have to!
Thanks for watching and for the nice comment!
@@tony359 I did downgrade to one that showed the actual temperature. I am on holiday right now so I can't check which version it was, but at least my unit always shows the measured temperature now.
the 1.33 I was using is showing the actual temperature so it's an improvement on the display_temp = min(measured_temp, set_point_temp); ;)
@@tony359I finally got back to my home country, and was able to verify that I successfully had managed to downgrade my Aixun T3A to 1.27 last autumn. That's the firmware I have used most of the time anyway, so when I had a horrible experience with 1.34 I downgraded back to 1.27. I am not sure why it's not working for you. At least I wanted to share that it is possible for some people to do that. I have used two different types of Aixun PC software. The newest one requires an Aixun account and has a left menu bar with "Devices", "Current", "Detect", "Tools", "Course", "Products" and "Service" options, and if I remember correctly that's the one I used to downgrade from 1.34 to 1.27. I believe i'm going to stick with that firmware until the apocalypse comes.
This is a deal breaker.
Thank you for the video.
Do you recommend an alternative?
I don't have personal experience so I'm reluctant to recommend other units. It seems that those with a linear transformer inside work ok.
Leakage current is to be expected with any line powered appliance. Offhand I don't remember the allowed current between two grounded points/appliances but I think it's in the very low milliamps for safety.
Appears the Aixun T3A soldering station sacrificed isolation/safety for performance at a price point.
Yes, I think the T3A is at a different level... I wonder if it's intentional (as in: yes we know but we don't care) or if they just missed that entirely. Thanks for watching!
I think the issue may be a ground loop. Here it is a requirement to tie ground to neutral. The thought is that the other two line along with neutral take care of the load & if any hot wires touch the case then it has a path back to the transformer instead of going to ground which could be you. However, there is always power on everything. I usually use a battery pack or a very nice power supply but I just got a new iron & was having issues with it. I decided to test after watching your video & found 3.5v AC. I separated my ground with a 970K resister. I don't want to poke my iron into a live circuit & become the point of discharge.
The 970K should still allow static to discharge which I think is the point.
I had this thought in one of your other videos but after you tested it wilt the speaker I was pretty sure the ground loop was the issue.
I do not know the correct value. I was guessing 1M & 970K was the closest I have. My handle has a through hole & a pad. They had connected to the pad. I moved the wire to the through hole & cut the trace ap the pad. This is where I soldered a SMD. However a through resister & heat shrink going up to the clip would work also.
Hello - someone else has suggested that. My T3A is in a box, I've wasted enough time with it! If that resistor is all it takes, then (more) shame on Aixun as they could issue replacement handles to the affected users.
Thanks for watching!
@@tony359
I am sorry to hear that. It looks like a nice little station. I also think it would make great content for a video.
Not everyone has the same power set up & most people don't understand power. I'm no scholar myself. I've just been working with electric since I could walk.
Even the scholars are still learning tho.
People look at power as ether on or off but the truth is energy is everywhere & in everything. It is the potential between two thing & their ability to transfer that difference that we see.
Most consumers buying item think everything needs "grounded". This in itself causes most electronic issues.
The tip is probably grounded because that is what consumers demand.
The best solution would be to match the protentional of the iron to what you are working on (how wrist straps work).
You could put a insulated plug in the device to attach to the 0 plane of the device you are working on to keep them the same but the resistor allows a slow blead back to "ground" this way both items (if grounded) can be at the same potential.
If you are done with it, like fixing things & this looks like it has promise. Would you consider sending it to me at a worthwhile price?
@@mtking2196 I am definitely looking for a buyer. But only if you are in the UK :)
The thing is that I like repairing things but I am not an electronic designer so I'm happy to leave these matters to those more skilled than I am :)
@@tony359
I understand. I'm not either. I just know it is bad to have more then one ground. It is beyond what I can fathom to understand why.
I do understand why it is bad to stick a ground into something like mains. This is what the resister is for.
However if you want to sell a product you have to give people what they want even when they don't know what they want.
To bad shipping would make the transfer prohibitive. I just bought a cheap t12 that I'm tinkering with to see if I can make it more usable. That's what made me watch your video. I was looking for the one I bought. 😁
Hello Tony! Happy New Year to you and your family!
Great video - as always!
I completely agree with you about the voltage issue. I was so flabbergasted - I always expected that no voltage is the norm - so I decided to check my soldering irons too. Results are not surprising: all of them are at 0V (Weller, Goot and Pine). My workbench is also grounded and the power strip is protected with a sensitive Type A RCD of 30mA. If the leakage occurs what do you think - would the RCD trip?
Thank you and happy new year to you too! I think the reason why my RCD doesn't trip is that that is leakage from the 24V supply of the power supply so that's not referenced to ground.
I use the same JBC as you have professionally and I don't want anything else.
When I got it I was like "this is boring, it just works"! :D
Yes, it just works and it's very reliable. They have a special barrel bit which I very much like for though-hole soldering. The bits might be expensive, but these last a long time.
I have a Aixun T420D and it does not have any voltage on the tip. Neither AC nor DC (measure with my Keithley 2000) mode. I cannot yet test overshoot, still waiting on my soldering iron temperature tester.
The JBC tips have 3 connections, in front it has the earth and TC (thermocouple), in the middle heater and at the back heater & TC. The Aixun T3A is using a DC power supply. And the TC circuit is clearly not isolated. So they have no choice but to use the earth pin at the front as the TC positive. Because the rear most pin HAS to be 0 volts or you'll inject a voltage into your TC circuit (or vice-versa). Feel free to run through this theory yourself and propose other ways in which you can heat a JBC 3 pin cartridge with DC and no isolated TC measurement circuit and not run into this issue.
So JBC rightly chose to run the heater with AC so that it is not referenced to the TC and thus the earth pin can be at 0 volts AC/DC. Then the rear most pin is the TC positive pin and one of the heater pins. The alternatively IMO is to use a isolated DC-DC supply with opto-couplers for the TC/ADC chip. Then your DC supply will be floating in reference to the TC.
Also there is quite a hooha going on about JBC station build quality and them silently swapping out parts. But I can link plenty of videos where they have some REALLY bad quality soldering inside the JBC station, even using cheap Chinese caps. That is the reason I bought the Aixun T420D, it is clearly very well made inside, not to mention it can drive two channels and T245, T210 and T115 at a lower cost than this equivalent single channel station.
I cannot comment on JBC quality - I've heard that too. Mine works so far but it doesn't mean much! That said, I really didn't want to buy another Aixun. Yes, reviews say it's ok but the T3A was also supposed to be ok! :) In the end I stumbled into these issues while using the T3A normally, I didn't do anything special!
I didn't know JBC was using AC to power the tip. Interesting. So the Chinese badly reverse engineered it? :)
Anyways, thanks for your feedback about the 420, I hope it helps viewers in making their decision!
@@tony359
> That said, I really didn't want to buy another Aixun. Yes, reviews say it's ok but the T3A was also supposed to be ok!
I don't make my living on electronics, so I could gamble, but if it was my job I would not, I get 100% why you chose the way you did :)
> I didn't know JBC was using AC to power the tip. Interesting. So the Chinese badly reverse engineered it? :)
Probably saving cost IMO, SMPS are so much cheaper to manufacture than bulky transformer that is specific to region after all.
> In the end I stumbled into these issues while using the T3A normally, I didn't do anything special!
That video actually inspired me to take a harder look at T420 after I initially dismissed it. That and alternative to T245 for SMD soldering (using T115 now).
Anyway thanks for the video and brining a repeatable way for testing it :)
You're very welcome and please do let me/us know how the 420 goes :)
@@tony359 > So the Chinese badly reverse engineered it? :)
While that is a common theme, in this specific case they probably started from the perspective of 'how can we make this as cheaply as possible' and ran into 'oh, that's why JBC didn't use SMPS but instead used xformer/AC powered heater tip' - but ran into that too far into production and, being a Chinese company, ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT ADMIT THEY SCREWED UP because that is social suicide in Chinese culture. So instead, they shipped it and proceeded with 'lalalalala, we can't hear you, there are no problems with our design, nope'.
To be somewhat fair, they also (apparently? hopefully?) corrected this by using a transformer / AC-to-tip power supply in the newer T420 series, so it's not like they can't learn, just that they can't admit being wrong.
Thanks for the review! I'd like to see a hot air station comparison too, if that could be possible
I switched my hot air station some time ago and did a comparison with my old one. th-cam.com/video/IVXnxbliBMg/w-d-xo.html Please bear in mind this is a relatively old video! Thanks for watching!
AiXun - funky 8-bit era sound generator! :D:D:D
ahhah the 8-bit soldering iron! Suitable for soldering on 8-bit machines! :)
The “in between” clone is another AiXun: The AiXun 420D has a large toroidal transformer like the JBC. I’m really curious to see if it has a voltage leak too.
Yes I heard it's ok - but the T3A was my last Aixun ever. They wasted my time.
(Also, the T3A was also supposed to be "good" but...) :)
Wow, that was loud, which leads me to conclusion it is capable of delivering serious current into somehow grounded circuit. It's not only about the voltage on the soldering tip, it's much more about the current it is capable of. The speaker have internal impedance about 4Ω, which is relatively low, so that station have to be capable of delivering serious current into the circuit when shorted to ground. Furthermore, it's AC with sharp edges, so it is something relatively wide in spectrum, so it is, in fact, RF source. I don't think your board needs to be grounded to run into serious issues. What if you touch the input of some very sensitive RF component? (Not only) RF boards typically have a lot of copper connected to internal grounds, which makes huge coupling area to the real ground on higher frequencies. And the soldering tip is capable of delivering power because of its low output impedance. And this is, in my opinion, the point, where the real mordor begins.
I completely agree, there are so many scenarios where this could become a problem - I don't want those scenarios to be a possibility with my soldering iron! Thanks for watching and commenting!
I have one of these Aixun soldering stations and have had zero problems with it. I thought it strange that you are measuring any voltage at the tip of the soldering iron, let alone measuring any current as this would indicate that the tip is not grounded. I have just tested mine in the same way and have not seen these problems.
Checking continuity, the tip of the iron is most definitely connected to mains earth, so I can only assume that there are either different revisions of PSU/Controller boards that have this problem, or that you messed up the earthing when you took the unit apart.
Mine is also connected to ground - but only when not heating. Try while cooling down the tip with a sponge, to trigger the heater. You won't see any voltage - or very little - when idle.
I didn't take the unit apart, it's still factory sealed.
Other have confirmed this behaviour so either there are different revisions, or something is wrong in our test procedure.
And BTW, Aixun confirmed (one of their rare replies!) that my T3A is genuine!
Let me know what you find and thanks for watching!
@@tony359 Just tried it again with the wet sponge and no problems. Tried it on grounded pcbs, no problem. I must admit that when I first got the unit I did remove the back cover to check that all mains side wiring and earthing was correct, then did the equivalent of a PAT test on it as the Chinese have a nasty habit of not earthing things correctly, if at all!
There must be multiple HW versions then. Others online have confirmed the same behaviour. If I check the tip for ground continuity, I have continuity - but only when idle or switched off. SDG also confirmed the "grounded PCB" behaviour on a different Aixun model.
Also if this was a fault of my very station, I'd expect Axium to reply "it shouldn't do that, we'll replace it for you" :)
So something stinks here :) Thanks for sharing your tests!
PS: do you have a T3A? You're not talking about the 420, are you?
@@tony359 Definately the T3A with a T245 handle and old version of stand. The new version of stand like yours wasn't available when I bought mine in late July 2021.
Weird. I do believe you of course. They must have done something to it.
Good to know. I don't have a station, just a pinecil. Gets me by currently.
The Pinecil is great AFAIK!
I bought a JBC years ago and love it, but I don't love the price of the tips. This is good to know that Aixun is supplying lower cost tips that will fit my JBC. The tips we find on AliExpress are certainly not authentic JBC tips, but I don't care.
Well one of the tips I got with the station split in half when I pulled it out the handle. Yes, JBCs are stupidly expensive but I'm not sure Aliexpress is the answer. My Aoyue station is horrible with Aoyue tips - it's working nice with Hakko tips so I feel that the main part of a soldering iron is the tip - the station is just a heating element after all. And with the 245 it's not even that! :)
But yes, they're too pricey...
@@tony359 Hoping that was a QC issue on only that tip. I just ordered three tips to check out their various sizes. $21 total for three tips. I can't even remember how much the JBC tips were, but they weren't $7 each.
they're £27-£20 each, a hold-up! But really the tip makes THE difference. Even with the Aixun I bought some JBC tips. Those will last forever and deliver the performance you need - but I am not going to argue that they're silly expensive :)
Anything from Aliexpress is a "QC issue" :D
I was considering JBC for a long time , but the price skyrocketed last year into ridiculous heights so I went with the AiXun and it was worth the price even if it has a SMPS. The AiXun dual station has a toroidal transformer which I think beats the JBC any day.
The stations with the linear transformers appear to be good - though I haven't tested it myself and even the T3A was supposed to be "good" so... :)
But yes, JBC prices are... too high!
Thanks for your tests and review, was going to buy an Aixun T3B! I'll look for something in between, as the JBC is expensive for hobbyist
No worries - I haven't tested them but I am told that those with a linear power supply inside are good. JBC definitely expensive - too expensive I shall say :)
try to find a used jbc. here they cost the same as a new aixun
@@olDirdey Yes, an used JBC is definitely a great idea!
You can buy JBC clones that have transformer and they are fine
@@M.E63 Apparently yes. Though the T3A was also supposed to be "fine" and now it's a paperweight on my shelf...
My Aixun T420D died a little past a year of usage. I just replaced it with a JBC station.
The voltage leak from the Aixun is concerning. Yes, it's only 1v, but it could potentially damage sensitive components like old MASK-ROMS or other memory modules.
exactly. I don't want that chance on my iron!
Great video thank you
thank you!
Thank you very much, for that video, it saved me a lot of disappointment with T3A
You're very welcome!
Good job sir! As always ;) It's tempting to save some money buying cheaper chinese tools but many times it's better to buy branded ones... even they are still made in China. In my job I improve chinese products everyday so I know it in details :D
Oh that sounds very interesting!
Good point about the Made in China tools! It must be difficult for a Western company not to have their products copied 1:1!
Interesting, im going to try the speaker test on my station.
Hopefully you get "The sound of silence" :)
How'd it go?
Do you think that the AxxSolder system could be something in between these two?
I’m not familiar with that I’m afraid!
Well done!
Thank you!
Hey Tony! I found your comments on the Eevblog forum and someone replied with a possible solution to the Aixun issues. They said you can stop temperature spikes and lessen tip current by grounding the station through a 10-15Ohm resistor. Would you be able to try this out and let us know if it works? The iron would be so great without these flaws!
Hi - I sold the T3A, sorry!
Hi Tony! What solder station do you recommend? Thank you!
I'm afraid I don't know. I'm hearing that those with a linear transformer are ok but I was also told the T3A was ok :)
I moved to a JBC, sorry :)
Thank you for your reply! I want to buy a solder station, but I don't have a jbc budget unfortunately...
I have a couple of questions about the JBC CD-2BHQF and CD-2BQF models:
Does the JBC CD-2BHQF use a switching power supply rather than a traditional transformer?
Is the CD-2BQF model equipped with a transformer for its power supply?
Thank you for your time and assistance!
The one you see in this video has a traditional linear power supply. I do not know if the 2BHQF uses a switching one.
Very interesting video. It would be nice to know if the new T3B has solved the problem of currents on the tip.
Thank you! I believe the T3A and T3B are more or less identical in construction but there have been reports of some T3A not showing this issue so who knows.
Can you show some links to those new reports please? Thank you
@@ariestar20 some viewers reported that
@Tony359 Any thoughts on the AiXun T420D? Does it have the same issues as the T3A (temperature overshoot and voltage and the tip)?
it's got a linear supply inside so it might not be affected but I do not know.
The noise is switchmode power supply noise.
I am guessing the tip is not earthed.
It would be interesting to see if you could cure the problem.
Believe it or not, the tip is grounded. At least this is what my Fluke is telling me. Thanks for watching!
@@tony359How are you measuring with your multimeter to come to the conclusion that it’s grounded? The fact that the station misbehaves when the tip is connected to ground externally are a strong sign that it’s not actually grounded.
I'd agree with you but...
Multimeter in resistance or continuity mode. One probe on the solder tip, the other on a ground wire coming from my mains socket. It reads 0 Ohm.
You did a great job, and the video is very useful, please reply whether Aixun replied to you? I'm considering buying a soldering station, not going to do anything fancy, just hobby stuff, but still, 1 volt is 1 volt too much), I also expect my gear to work as it should. Thanks
No, never got a reply from Aixun. I sold my station and never ever Aixun again. :)
Since you nemtioned there is a new firmware out for the AiXun T3A, would you revisit the unit and test if they fixed any of the given issues. Or maybe seek DIY solutions to fix them, I can't shell out JBC money for the soldering station and so I have been looking at items from AiXun like model 420D (Dual handle) and a few other iterations. I want to save enough money to also get a hot air/SMD rework station.
I appreciate it would be nice to look deeper into this issue but I won't be doing a follow up on this station. I invested way too much time on it. The flaw cannot be fixed by software, it can be hidden or mitigated but not fixed. Opening the T3A is also mostly a destructive process so I'm afraid my contribution on this model won't go any further! But thanks for your comment!
As someone new to soldering, I really considered this station because of its size and capabilities. However after the review, I'm not entirely sure anymore. Would you be able to recommend any other stations like this that doesn't break the bank?
it's hard to say. I'm told the SUGON are good, the ones with a linear transformer inside, not the switching power supply. That said, the T3A was also supposed to be good so without seeing it by myself I cannot be 100% sure.
@@tony359 Thank you for your input! I'll check 'em out and keep researching I suppose
@@Gemmmmmmmmmmmmmy Hi, which soldering station did you choose ?
@@CanaleTH-camGeneralista I haven't gone for any yet, other priorities took over so I had to pause, and these aliexpress stations may be too overkill for my use case. Although ifixit released their own portable station which I'll look into
New 1.36 firmware is now available. Also, the only way I could get it to upgrade from my 1.35 version was to reinstall the latest software (V1.19.15) from their website. Everything looked normal after upgrading to 1.36 but I didn't do any in-depth testing.
I heard about 1.36, my T3A is in a box so I don't want to check, I wasted enough time on that! :)
But I doubt this issue could be resolved via FW. It can be mitigated/hidden but not solved.
THanks for your comment!
@@tony359 -- As I mentioned before, I'm not experiencing any of the problems you are seeing even on 1.35. If you ever drag your T3A out again, try grounding the device you are soldering on to the ground jack on the back of your T3A and see if that helps. Also, I wonder if this could be caused by your T3A being plugged into outlet on a different ground path than the device you are working on. If so, there might be some ground currents at work here. All of my stuff is plugged into the same power strip so no chance for ground current to flow.
@@rpsmithNo, the ground is the same. This issue has been confirmed by others so it's not just me. The voltage is also a tangible measurement. Others say their station does not show the same issue so I don't know what to think. Either there are multiple versions available or I do not know.
@@tony359 -- So does the tip of the iron always show a small amount of voltage above ground or just when you reference it to the device you are wanting to work on that is connected to ground? I'll check my tip voltage next time I'm in the shop.
@@rpsmith Only when the tip is heating - check while the tip is on the sponge or immediately after it's being powered up.
Aixun T420D works great and doesn't have that grounding issue
the 420 has a linear transformer inside so that makes it unaffected, yes.
I dont understand why this video has so little views, but heres a comment to possibly boost interaction
ahah thank you so much, I appreciate your time!!
I wonder if plugging the station into an isolation transformer would help the ground problem. 🤷♂️
I had that same thought.
Yes, many have suggested that. Wouldn't that mean the tip is not grounded though? Because - believe it or not - I do read ground when I check continuity with the tip!
@@tony359 -- I would just ground the T3A via the ground jack on the back through a 1m ohm resistor to bleed off any static. Also, I did the speaker test on my 6 month old T3A and heard nothing and the current didn't spike and the temp didn't change and I was not using an isolation transformer. I'll do a more thorough test when I get some free time.
That is so weird. Did they change the design and made it so massively worse? I'm not aware of massive differences in the design. Aixun themselves told me - one of their rare replies - that my station is an Aixun genuine.
@@rpsmith With 1m ohm resistor the "speaker test " passed, theres also no temperature spikes on grounded pcb. But there is still some voltage on tip.
saludos ingeniero, si la estacion Aixun T3A se conecta con un transformador de aislamiento, no generaría ese nivel de voltaje a su salida ?
¡Hola! No lo he intentado, pero me gustaría que mi punta de soldadura esté conectada a tierra, así que no creo que sea una solución viable. ¡Gracias por ver!
You can choose a medical grade switch power supply for greater safety
You can choose a medical grade switch power supply for greater safety
None of my soldering stations doing what Aixun is doing.. 😬
Open it up for next video! Wondering, what other hazards this station have inside..
ahah! We already have a free voltage injection tool! Thanks for watching!
I really enjoyed the aixun since the last time we spoke but while working on a ps5 I noticed that the handle went haywire on me a few times. The temps kept on climbing and wouldn't go down even within the cradle. I had to power down. I really do like the feature of being able to switch tips on the fly but this machine has too many unacceptable problems now I wished I had saved money and went straight to the jbc. I still love my hakko but getting spoiled by that quick heat up time, quick switch and tip sizes I think I might have to upgrade again to the jbc because that 245 is nice but I also need smaller precision with the 210 & 115 alternatives. Idk if I should go the cheap route again and get the t3b or a mechanic soldering station.
You are exactly where I was a few weeks ago. I switched to the T3A even though my Hakko clone was ok. I immediately got in love with the power, the quick power up and mostly the quick change tips.
When I decided the T3A was too flawed for me, I couldn't just go back to the Hakko so I wondered whether I should try another cheapo one or go straight for one which worked.
What I am asking myself now is how come I started thinking "I'll get the £30 KSGER" station" and ended up spending £500?? :D
Thanks for watching and let me know what you decide! Apparently if you avoid SMPS soldering stations you should be fine. But I cannot be 100% sure :)
@tony359 Haha, yes! 😄 it happens brother going 0 to 100. I got so used to it that last night before bed, I was really thinking about the hakko and noticed that it's just taking up space on my desk not being used, mind you I used to use it everyday! I would love to own a jbc, but right now, it's out of my budget, but I feel like I just might have to make that sacrifice and bite the bullet. I was also looking at the new hakko fx one even though heat up time is a little slower it is reliable but what I don't like is that the dual channel one you have to purchase separately and doesn't come with anything like the single channel one and it's already expensive but I'll give it some more thought and look around. I'll touch base back with you once I decide and with updates.
Mine does the same when I was reworking a cross over filter while it was still connected to my amp which was turned off. I could hear the pwm sound, though not as loud. Other than that I always disconnect from mains before soldering, though Indid forget it a few times but had no issues so far.
I'll test that temperature overshoot thing, I hadn't noticed it before.
A soldering iron should not leak enough current to make a speaker sound..... A speaker won't mind. But electronics might be a bit more fussy!!
@@tony359 I agree with you, though I haven't had any issues with it damaging something. Most ICs in retro computers can easily take 1V. I've done an ReAmiga1200 with this soldering station and it works perfectly. I usually use a 1k ohm resistor on the ground lead of my oscilloscope to prevent short issues, this included. I'm considering getting a differential probe, that would solve that issue as well. Only thing I have to remember is to flip the switch on the power strip when soldering. It's a hobby for me. I can imagine for a business you'd pick a real JBC, no question.
Definitely not an issue for retro computers. However there should be some cheap options which don’t make a speaker sound. I’m told the ones with a linear transformers are ok. I just consider the T3A unfit for purpose. And sorry, I know you have it. But I also have it 😂
The JBC is overpriced for sure. I’ve got one as I needed a reliable one and couldn’t afford time and money to test further Chinese copycats 🙂
@@tony359 Yep I'll use what I have with issues and all until it bites me bad enough to upgrade, which sometimes happen and I do.
I also have another Chinese transformer based soldering iron and it doesn't interfere with the T3A when 'duo' soldering. But it has integrated pre heater and hot air iron and isn't very portable, and doesn't heat up quickly nor has good power handling with larger copper mass targets. So if I need to move to my floor standing speakers I rather pickup the T3A and deal with the hum ;)
I fully understand you picking the JBC, you've reached that point that it bothers you enough to make the splurge. I probably got already 300 euros in JBL original tips lol so who knows!
You can try to connect the negative output from the power supply to earth. This may solve the problem or it may introduce a new one. Do it at your own risk. Nice video btw. Regards
Thanks for your comment! I'd rather not disassemble the unit, which is not easy to disassemble BTW. I am not trying to "fix" it, it's not broken, it's flawed :) I'll leave that task to people more experienced than me! Thanks for watching!
The JBC has the sponge, wool but also the rubber/sillicone for cleaning the tip.
Good point, I found it quite useful - the solder gets stuck to it nicely! Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 for tip longevity JBC recommends the rubber thing, sponge and wool, in this order.
Thanks for making these videos :)
Very interesting, thank you! I don't tend to use the wool to be fair. I see why you want to use it last, so you don't saturate it with solder.
@@tony359 it's more because it's way more aggressive on the tip than the other methods. I mostly use C210 and some of them have quite a short lifespan even when taking care of them.
Oh I see what you mean. "Use the wool only when necessary". Yes of course, that's what I do.
I've recently bought the C210 handle for the JBC and I feel the small tip I got could be damaged by the sponge! I don't think I would ever venture it in the metal wool! :)
What about disasembling the aixun and cutting the ground line going into soldering tip. Then solder a shottky diode so that no voltage will come from the tip. The tip will still be grounded.
It's been suggested. I just would like not to disassemble it because it's mostly a destructive process - the front panel is glued and I believe the PCB is also glued to the chassis. I'm sure there might be a mitigation but there is a long thread on EEVBlog and I don't think a definite fix has come up yet.
Thanks for watching and for commenting!
@@tony359 actually it is not so hard to dissasembly that station. The board is not glued. I also have this station and I opened it couple months ago. I accidentally blowed up a mosfet because I touched the iron tip with 230V AC 😁
@@tony359 What type of shottky diode will be ok?
I don't know, that's a question for @lgolebio :)
What type of shottky diode will be ok?
Can you tell me, this soldering station has an oled, ips, or tft screen?
I do not know I'm afraid!
@tony359 I have ts100 now and it's not powerful enough. Looking for a soldering station under $100, can you recommend one? I'm currently choosing between yihua 939d+, wep 927- IV and aixun t3a.
I do not know I'm afraid. I went for a JBC because I had already wasted enough time on the Aixun :)
Hey Tony, just a quick question for you unrelated to this specific video. What headset and audio transmitter are you using here? Is it some kind of XLR transmitter you carry around?
It's the Røde Wireless Go. It outputs on a jack which I then feed into my iPhone via various adaptors :)
@@tony359 oooh, that's clever. I want to go wire free myself so I'll definitely look into that for sure. Thanks kindly! Also, it's a shame about that soldering station with the 1V at the tip. Not ESD safe. Eek!
Free voltage injector! :)
Glad i sww this my trusty old weller, ec1200 i think, has died and ive been looking at these cheap controlers that will drive hakko and jbc hand pieces... the problem now is do they all do this and if so is it fixable???
No, I am told other brands are ok. Look for a unit with a linear transformer. That should at least remove the "voltage injector" feature! :) Thanks for watching!
Did you find where the problem is on the board to let voltage to the tip. Is there anyway to fix it?
No, unfortunately this unit is not easy to open and I am not skilled to design circuits - I can repair them but this is not a fault! :) I'll leave this task to more skilled people! Thanks for watching!
The ground at the back of the Aixun soldering station doesn’t ground the tip?
It does. When not heating. When heating, I measure voltage. Not sure how that is possible but that is what my Fluke is telling me!
@@tony359 It must be a fluke ;-). Please test again. Just kidding...
Hello, the Aixun T3A station all have voltage at the tips of the soldering iron or yours was defective and that fault could be repaired. I want to buy an Aixun. I would recommend it.
There should be NO voltage at the tip and not all Aixun have that problem. My station is not faulty, others have confirmed the same behaviour. I do not recommend the T3A. Thanks for your comment!
Tony, please tell what mean "chisel 1"? Is it 774, 806 or 906? Thanks.
907. I meant Chisel 2mm. The 907 is 2.2mm. Thanks for watching!
Since when was it a good idea to use a speaker to measure voltage?
Since when not everybody understands electricity 🙂
To the owners of the aixun T320 and aixun T420D, do you know if this problem has been corrected on these new solder stations?
I don’t think this behaviour can be ‘corrected’ - my understanding is that units with a linear power supply are unaffected. Cannot remember which one of the two it is.
Is there something the user can add to the pcb to resolve this voltage leak issue?
There is a long thread on EEVBlog but last time I checked there was no simple solution I'm afraid. Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 I enjoy your videos, keep them coming! also did you see a few sellers now list a 'new version' of the t3a?
Thanks! No, I haven't - where can I see that? YT might prevent a link, if you just mention a seller name I might be able to find it online. Thank you!
🤯👍
I am an actual T3B worker. This video is facts. It's actually a scary 500 degrees heat. This is a very bad thing and happens often.
Thanks for your feedback!
11:40 Making Speccy music! 😂
FEATURES
- Integrated Voltage Injector
- '80s computer integrated sound generator
I can't really think of anything that 1V could damage but yikes at that current spike. Unfortunately there's no way in hell I can afford a JBC so guess I'll be sticking with my cheap Aoyue.
Well the voltage is one thing. But, I see you're still running 1.33 firmware. 1.35 came out in November of 23 that claims to " optimize 245 control heating" and "optimize the automatic temperature compensation function of 245". There's even another firmware that came out after that. I would be curious to see the effects of any of the new firmware.
Frankly I don't expect an 80$ knock off to perform on the level with a 350$+ machine. But, if I can get somewhere near it's performance with some kind of reliability I would take it.
There are mentions on the 1.34FW either in this video or in the other one where I review the T3A th-cam.com/video/B7jLpHgR7fI/w-d-xo.html
From 1.34 onwards the station is unable to keep some tips at a stable temp and - most importantly - the ground issue is covered up, the display NEVER shows anything above the set temp.
The issue is hardware, there is no SW fix that can 100% resolve it I'm afraid.
I agree a cheaper station doesn't have to be perfect but that amount of current flowing from the tip is dangerous I'm afraid - The tip going +100C over the set temperature is just pretty bad :)
I suppose there is a limit to when things become unacceptable. When it comes to current leak, I'd say 0V and 0A is my limit :)
Thanks for watching!
Pls is the Aixun T320 better than Aixun T3A?
Apparently not.
Shouldn't the tip be grounded? By the way, is the case grounded? Why not take it apart and see what's going on?
Because it cannot be opened without destroying the front panel. What I’m showing here is a known issue. It’s due to the way the power supply is wired, there is no easy solution. It is grounded but still…
@@tony359 So the case is grounded? But what about the iron itself? Because if there's positive voltage on the iron that means it's not ESD safe.
This is just crazy to me!
the tip is also grounded - yes I know "so how is it possible that you measure a voltage" - I do not know :)
@@tony359 This is so weird! I was in the market last year to purchase a soldering station with new technology, heating element in the tip rather than in the handle, and i came across this station but i wasn't really feeling it.
So i went with a T12 station from Yihua, it works well, and it is limited compared to the other T12 stations which you can set different temps for different tips.
I don't solder grounded boards and so far my Axiun has soldered 50k+ worth of product so no complaints from me. I accept that in different circumstances the concerns you have highlighted might be a deal breaker, but just remember the price point and what, for many, a real bargain it is.
It could be free but when the tip reaches 550C while the display says 360C, that's not a bargain, it's a scam! :)
Imagine if I hadn't downgraded to 1.33, I might have never noticed I was frying my boards. So I'm sorry but no, I respect your opinion but I cannot call it a bargain!
@@tony359 All I can tell you is that I have soldered approximately 1500 PCBs and never burnt a track or component. I don't dwell longer than necessary to flow the joint. For me it's a bargain, but I fully appreciate your point of view. I think if you wanted a very high spec machine with no flaws you might expect to have to pay a lot more.
I have to disagree with you I'm afraid. Yes, you can solder ok with a tip at 500C, it won't necessarily mean you're damaging things 100% of the time but that's not how it should work.
There are stations out there which don't show that issue and are priced similarly. A "flaw" could be 20C overshooting. Not 150C! :)
@@tony359 We are not disagreeing about what you are saying about the iron, I believe want you say. I am only sharing my experience and I have soldered a lot of boards, 45 today alone and I will probably do the same tomorrow. If I touch something with a soldering iron at 500c the thing I touch does not reach 500c instantaneously, only if I continuously keep contact. When I solder I only make contact until the joint flows and I imagine it's the same for most people. You don't just keep heating a joint for the sake of it and so an iron which overheats in certain circumstances does not unduly bother me. Your research is sound and your content is good, but I am just making the point that it is not a deal breaker for me, and I am very pleased I bought this station which has served me well and I am sure it would be a good buy for many others.
Anyway, what stations do you prefer at this price point?
I appreciate your opinion, thanks for your constructive reply!
I see what you mean but if we solder at (usually) 360C there is a reason! Adhesives on PCBs are designed for 300C, not 500C. Obviously your pads are not going to instantly detach from your boards if you touch them with a 500C tip but you'll be weakening the pad by doing that. Whether that has an immediate or delayed effect it depends on the quality of the PCB and many parameters. Chances are nothing will ever happen of course. But that doesn't mean it's ok to solder at 500C - or the international standards would say "set your tip to 350-500C" :)
Also, the Aixun does not always go to 500C, so I appreciate it's not so common to have the tip at 500C.
In my case, when de-soldering SMD caps using two irons, sometimes I have caps on ground planes and I *have* to keep the irons on the pads for 5-6 seconds before the solder under the capacitor melts. And when I see "500" on the T3A... that's not good!!
I do respect your view but I stand mine - I don't want 500C on my tip, ever :)
I'm told the Sugon A9 is good and apparently even the Aixun 420 is good. Both have linear transformers. I believe they are a bit more expensive though. But the T3A with those flaws is not an option I'm afraid.
Thanks again for your kind words :)
Hello. Do you think this problem has been resolved in T3B?
Hi - I think it's the same HW, I might have read it around. The T3B is less powerful if I remember right, it's not an upgraded version of the T3A.
@@tony359 My heartfelt thanks to you. Does this problem also occur with the latest T3A firmware? I wonder why manufacturers don't fix this issue sooner. thank you!
the latest FW I tested is "hiding" the issue. It cannot be fixed, only hidden and/or mitigated I'm afraid.
I purchased the T3B last week and it works completely fine for me. There is no voltage leak while grounded. Firmware 1.15
But I cannot tell anything about temp spikes because I got nothing to meassure it.
How does JBC avoid this? grounding the outer shell? I now want to design my own PCB for the JBC handles/tips, in theory it's very easy! Reality tho..
JBC use a linear power supply, I understand that this way the supply is completely separated from mains while Aixun - if not mistaken - links mains ground to the negative of the SMPS? I might be incorrect though.
@@tony359 what soldering iron around 200CAD would you recommend for someone like me? I have a pinecil v2 but for some big ground pins and lead-free solder it's not enough! I also want something with a dock that allows me to quickly change the tips to a sharp one for SMD and then a different one for say ICs
Also, I thought both SMPS and Linear (big transformer) are isolated? I just thought that SMPS just uses higher frequencies vs 60hz
@@ameliabuns4058 I'm not sure what to recommend I'm afraid. I went with the JBC as I had spent enough time after these irons. It's good but definitely expensive. 245 tips are too big for SMD. The JBC can use 210 too but it's a separate handle.
@@tony359 oh the T420 is really expensive but can support all the handles and has an isolated PSU, tho the T320 can also handle both 210 and 245. I also hate the fact that they need software updates with their super sketchy software.
What if you would replace the switch-mode PSU in the T3A with a normal transformer?
Good question! I think it could be possible, but at that power level you would need a pretty big brick. Maybe the size beekeepers use to affix wax boards to wire harnesses on wax frames. My father has one and that monster of the transformer is over 3 kg. And properly isolated one are bloody expensive.
I think there are stations with a linear transformers around, that might be better than modding the T3A :)
I'm thinking about that too. There are 24v 200W troidal transformers and they are small enough. Will a bridge rectifier be enough to get clean DC voltage?
Oh come on Tony, were is your sens of curiosity! 🙂@@tony359
You're right, I gave up this time! :D
I not understand, is ground at speaker connected toaims earth? Also grounded pin on pcb,is that soldering pcb connected to mains power?
The speaker has one lead connected to ground. The PCB is grounded - not the pin. The PCB was not powered of course. I explained why earth can be in the way from 1:30
@@tony359 Speaker to ground on soldering station I guess
Ground is ground :)
@@tony359 ok, gnd is gnd, but still not clear when you touch pcb groujd pins and temperature goes 500° That pcb htoundvis not connected to any other ground or solder station box. I have Weller but also china TS12 and I use only china,much better then weller,sound strange but it is for me better. I workbon car electronics,engine ecu,instrument cluster,airbags,immobiliser and never damaged any board
I'm sorry I am struggling to follow you.
I am not touching a ground pin. I'm touching "a" pin of a "grounded" PCB.
This is a flaw with the T3A, other stations of course are unaffected.
Hello.
Why not use the Aixun holder with the JBC station?
The "sleep" sensor would not work unfortunately. JBC sells one but it's another £100+ :) Thanks for watching!
@@tony359 If you connect the cable of the Aixun holder to the JBC holder, it should work. I use it that way too.
thank for that, I'll give that a go!
Does anyone know of a cheap 200W alternative, but without this problem?
I was considering this station, luckily I didn't get it.
1V at that amperage is dangerous for electronics. We must repair not destroy
I'm hearing that anything with a linear transformer inside doesn't have that issue - but I cannot guarantee that, even the T3A was supposed to be good!
@@tony359I don't know the aixun operating system, but the problem is serious. In the right conditions, accidental contact with a ground electrode is enough
We already have a voltage that biases a transistor. If someone works with expensive components (ex amplifier) they risk doing serious damage.
It's scandalous that the producer doesn't show up. It is not a problem that can be solved via software, the project must be revised
Absolutely. Mistakes can happen but then you own it and fix it. Sticking your head in the sand won’t work.
well I buy one t3a and some time after I sell it and buy the aixun t420d and I am.inlove with it and this one use one toroidal transformer and works perfectly if you can try to compare with your jbc and probably the history will be much different and I also buy one jbc and my station broke it reboots itself time to time and I can't solve the problem with jbc because I am from brasil and they not have support here my jbc now is a backup of my aixun t420d
JBC don't have support in Brasil? Wow!
Yes, I've heard the 420 is much better but after having so much headache with the Aixun - and with Aixun - I don't want to trust them anymore. Glad to hear it works well though! Thanks for watching, Tchau!
Any solution for this ?
Not that I am aware at the moment! Thanks for watching!
Can you fix it?
Not that I know!
Ingeniero una prueba que se puede realizar, es aislar el terminal con diodos rectificadores
Hi - what do you mean with "terminal"?
@@tony359colocar 2 diodos rectificadores en serie con el cable que alimenta a la punta del cautin, de esa forma el cautin queda aislado de la tierra y el voltaje que entrega el cautin respecto a tierra baja a cero voltios
I'd rather not disassemble the handle or the unit - chances are it's a destructive process (definitely for the main unit). I'll leave these tasks for more skilled people! I can repair things, but this is really not a fault! Thanks for the suggestion though!
Excellent soldering station
Thanks 👍
@@tony359 I have t3a and now I'm gonna buy t3b💪
I was considering the aixun thanks for the big red flag.
You're very welcome!
Would an isolation transformer completely solve the voltage issue for a cheap price?
Won't solve the horrible behavior by the company though.
I haven’t tried but it would make your tip floating which I understand it’s not a great thing either. Maybe the lessen of the two evils?
@@tony359 good point, but it's probably still better than burning the board.
Ahahah you’re right!
Alla fine, chi piu' spende meno spende. You get what you pay for.
Ci sono delle eccezioni ma non e' sicuramente questo il caso! Thanks for watching! :)
I would love to have a JBC station, but it's too expensive.
I can very much understand. I'm sure there is something "in between" that doesn't try hard to fry our PCBs...
@@tony359 Besides, I also solder like you, i.e. with two soldering irons at the same time, then I would need two JBC stations, and I also use a self-made soldering tip, which is not possible with JBC.
I wonder if that voltage leak has anything to do with the switching psu aixun has... I am tired of all these Chinese crap products that have flooded the market the last 20 years...
Cheers from Greece, keep up the great content, happier new year! Jim
It might be, I'll leave more experienced people to ascertain! Thanks for watching and happy new year too!