Improve Your Commander Decks By Cutting THIS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ม.ค. 2024
- There's a certain type of card that we tend to avoid in Commander, and we dive deeper into why that is in this video!
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A counterpart video showing cards where the ‘developing’ and ‘losing’ squares r green would be very interesting as well.
This is what I was thinking as well. A follow up of staples that are great for losing and developing would be interesting.
Counterspells, card draw, targeted removal, one-sided boardwipes come to mind. But I think the individual card makes more of a difference here. E.g. Dauthi Voidwalker has different stuff that makes it work in each situation - it's not one effect it's a combination.
@@japplek to be fair one sided wipes are always good to an extend so they are not realy worth talking about
Developing and Losing cards are fairly self evident, eg. Sol Ring and Angel's Grace.
Using what you've learned about applying quadrant theory to these specific cards, try evaluating some other cards to see what you learn.
Those squares dont mean anything other than theory. I challenge them to show a gameplay video that goes this way...... and Is this channel dedicated to cedh only...? whats wrong with “old magic” or just playing decks and cards for fun? Basically every card shown here can be powerful in the right deck or just add more fun and laughs to a game
It's worth pointing out that, by quadrant theory, cards like Craterhoof Behemoth, Thassa's Oracle, and other widely-played win conditions are also bad because they at most are good when Winning or at Parity. Not that people shouldn't run them, of course, it's just that sometimes the quadrants can't tell the entire story.
Facts. I do think that you can use quadrant theory well enough to choose between win cons for your deck
I think that’s what makes these cards bad. There are way better options in the winning category.
@@financecarter In any given deck, this is true. Some of these (Craterhoof particularly) are not notorious because they are the best wincons in the deck, but because they are the wincons that work in almost any deck.
Was about to say the same. In a Rakdos deck I don’t have a Craterhoof to drop. But Fiery Emancipation does the job nicely with my flying trampling demons who need to close out the game with raw damage. 20 damage becoming 60 makes the difference. Also paired with things like Archfiend, I can kill everyone out of nowhere. I can live with not being able to cast it early game just as I would Craterhoof or Overwhelming Stampede in a green deck!
I think the moral of the video is to not run too many "win more" cards in your deck
Well we know it can't be grave titan that card is a must 😂
Don't leave home without it!
@@NitpickingNerds yeah he dices and slices xd
First off: Congratulations on the engagement!
While your ranking videos, funny shorts and other stuff are entertaining, videos like these are what I value most about your channel. When I started playing, these are what helped me understand the format, evaluate cards properly and build better decks. I like that you rate new cards honestly instead of hyping up all the useless Planeswalkers we get each set, like others do just for the views. Thank you for being a reliable source of information, staying in contact with your viewers and regularly producing entertaining content!
Hunter's insight is so good in stompy decks. The fact that it's an instant is what makes it good. There are alot of people who will just take 4- 5 damage if your attacking creature has trample because what's the point in losing a creature and still taking damage. That's when it shines because you can flash this in after they declare no blockers. So I think it's good in the parity and winning.
Utvara Hellkite: the way I play this, it closes the game the turn it comes down because Terror of the Peaks, Dragon Tempest, and Scourge of Valkas exist.
In a vacuum though I would agree.
As foretold has one additional home, being flash/instantspeed decks due to its wording. If you have instants(like counterspells ir cantrips) in hand you can tap out and still use it on another turn for free.
"You gotta eat your veggies too" man what a great way to look at deck building. I definitely fall short of that a lot and often dont run enough lands or card draw and just too much ramp.. trying to get better at it and this channel is definitely helping to shed some light on the subject and help me out. Been watching for a while now but havent been lately.. now I'm kinda glad I didnt so I can go binge watch haha. Anyways great video guys, congrats on the new engagement, keep up the great work nerds! ❤
Appreciate the kind words, we're glad this video was helpful to you! We're always striving to get better at Commander and to find new ways to communicate our ideas :)
My friend and I recently got back into commander and your videos have been extremely helpful for me! I don’t win a lot against my friends but I’m having fun 😂❤😊
That's what it's all about! So glad you are enjoying yourself!
having fun is an important part of magic
Hunter's insight has drawn me more cards than I can count. The dies to removal argument you make for it could be said for anything...
They talk about flashing in creatures like you can't wait to move to damage before casting it...
I play it in Kalamax and it regularly draws me tons of cards. But I guess he's sorta tailor made for it other than evasion. Just slap something on him, it's not like you should be attacking in before that anyway.
Exactly and saying it doesn't help with parody after a board wipe Makes no sense play a creature with haste or play multiple creatures. And the next turn use hunter's insight and hit Whoever you can get it by with.
Exacery! Everything is bad except removal cards apparently.
I love the science/strategy/rationale behind this kind of segment. It helps give a framework for newbie players to go by. Best video I've seen from this channel thus far.
Zur the enchanter + as Foretold is fantastic. Also it says “once EACH turn…” not once on your turn. Meaning it can turn counter spell into Better Force of will. In 2 turns, free cast a one cost spell like. Esper Sentinel, Land Tax, Mystic remora, sol ring, etc. then boom turn 2+ your looking at free counter spells and better from then on. But after the first counter spell they will remove that shit.
My worst deck, but the one that I can't make myself give up on, is a Trostani deck that's all about pushing out BIG tokens. The key to improving it was making more things that got the deck going (i.e. creating tokens) and less payoffs. Well of Lost Dreams and Second Harvest were both among the cuts.
I used to have Well of Lost Dreams in my Darien deck but ended up taking it out a while ago. Any time I try to put it in a deck i still end up taking it out. Honestly its just... a bad card. Theres more efficient ways to draw cards.
This is such an interesting way of looking at the value of a card not in a vacuum, not in a specific situation, but in the 4 states a game can be based on flow
Love As Foretold in my Doctor Who deck
Even when it first comes out, it can at least help me cheat out suspend cards with no mana value
Plus even 1-2 counters is super clutch for fueling my interaction and counterspells, since it lets you use its ability once per turn
Or even using it to cast your commander once you have enough
Then time traveling helps you build up those counters stupid quick. Last time I had it out, I had like 12 counters on it. Was awesome casting my biggest stuff.
you said counterspells, so i immediately disregarded the rest of the paragraph
Basicly what you guys are telling us.
Every card fits into it's own category, make sure you know where every card goes. This helps balancing your deck over time.
I run Fiery Emancipation in my mono red burn decks such as torbran or Neheb
There are decks you can run in it , but most times its win more
Second harvest goes in my Volo deck because even if I only have 1 or 2 copy tokens, the token copies are usually very valuable and at least 4 mana. Getting an extra 1 or 2 copies of something like acidic slime or peregrine drake, let alone craterhoof, is pretty huge.
Yea its clearly a card that needs to be put into specific decks that create a lot of token copies, not treasures/clues/foods.
Second harvest in my omnath and lathril deck, it’s a great card there
Why not just play a clone at that point?
Higher ceiling to get 3+ tokens that lead to a win/immense value with an acceptable floor of functionally clone
Thanks for the free egdar upgrade guide. I was looking at cards to cut and you just listed 3 that I had in the list
I have Second Harvest in my Rin & Siri deck. It makes a ton of tokens and since it’s an Instant I can play it on an opponents End Step. It has been dead in my hand, but not usually.😊
It's funny with crucible of fire because your thoughts on this card echo my initial reaction to it... except every time I've used it in my ur dragon app it felt amazing and any time it was used against me it sucked a lot. It works really well as a way to help the dragons survive to get more, and its amazing as long as you have creatures. It's a strong finisher, which should be its purpose. It's basically a permanent overrun (given dragons have flying). On top of that it makes dragons more intimidating, so it can turn a losing board with a single dragon into a near-parity. Way better than I think you give it credit for.
It's just that you can play so many other dragons that do basically the same but... are dragons themselves.
Thrakkus the Butcher = when it attacks, double each dragon's power
Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury = Whenever a dragon you control attacks, creatures you control get +1/+0 until end of turn (attacking with three dragons = +3/+0
Lozhan, Dragons' Legacy = Whenever you cast an Adventure or Dragon spell, Lozhan, Dragons’ Legacy deals damage equal to that spell’s mana value to any target that isn’t a commander
Wrathful Red Dragon = Whenever a Dragon you control is dealt damage, it deals that much damage to any target that isn’t a Dragon
Dromoka, the Eternal = Whenever a Dragon you control attacks, bolster 2
Like... instead of playing enchantments that make your dragons stronger, just play DRAGONS that make your Dragons stronger. Not only does that mean you'll generally have more stuff on the board that actually needs to get answered, it also means you have more synnergies. A Kolaghan, the Storms Fury doesn't just make your other dragons better, it also gets better from other dragons. Crucible of Fire doesn't do that. It makes other dragons stronger, but never gets stronger itself... because it' just an enchantment that sits there. Dragons are basically slivers now.
What also compounds this is if you play The Ur-Dragon, that every Dragon will be cheaper by one mana. It's actually incredible how much of a difference that makes. If you play any acceleation at all turn 1/2, you'll have 4 mana available on turn 3. With Ur-Dragon's emminence ability I can now cast any 5-mana dragon on turn 3. Then follow up up with a second dragon turn 4 and most of the time that's already a huge issue for your opponents. I'd rather have two dragons than one dragon and a crucible.
And finally: Giving your dragons +3/+3 doesn't really prevent them from getting killed. Like sure, they're a bit tougher but they will STILL die basically to any boardwipe and occasionally survive a red sweeper (even then there are exceptions with Star of Extinction and Blasphemous Act which deal so much damage that even high toughness doesn't save your dragons). Targeted removal most of the time exiles or destroys or bounces.
So I'd much rather play something like Steely Resolve (As Steely Resolve enters the battlefield, choose a creature type. Creatures of the chosen type have shroud.) to protect my dragons from single target removal. It's much cheaper at 2 mana and is way better at protecting my dragons than a +3/+3 buff ever could.
@@PaulSzkibikHere's the thing though- most field wipes kill creatures, but its a rare field wipe that destroys enchantments. If your whole focus is on summoning dragons, any deck with a solid and reliable creature counter can put it out. Having a few enchantments and artifacts can make important effects harder to remove. And when I say theyre more survivable, Im talking about combat- people will think a lot harder about attacking you if you have an 8/8 or 9/9 than they will about a 5/5 or 6/6, as there are far fewer things that can survive that. On top of all that, if someone brings out targeted enchantment removal, this one looks bad enough on the surface that people won't destroy it over others like kindred discovery or damage engines. Literally you're expressing my starting viewpoint on that card, but the more I've used it, the more I realized its a surprisingly strong card that goes well beyond first impressions. Its easy to sleep on. (Ill also add that it makes Ur dragon 2-shot someone)
The argument of a spell being "bad" because the creture it targets can be killed and the spell fizzles is way too generic. The One Ring, Dockside, Craterhoof, all these cards can be countered, so that makes them bad right? Smothering Tithe and Rhystic Studies are bad when losing because people who are winning will pay the 2/1 right?
Hunter's Insight has a higher setup cost than the other spells you mentioned; you need a creature with 3+ power and you also need to attack and it also needs to deal at least 3 damage. I think Mia compared it to Harmonize, which isn't a great card, but it has zero setup cost. Everything does die to counterspells/removal, but in the case of cards like Hunter's Insight, you are also exposing another card to removal as your opponents are offered a much more tempting trade of a 2-for-1
Well of lost dreams....anything (other than skull clamp) that requires me to pay additional mana to draw, I avoid. I want my draws to come free with a trigger, or directly from the spell I cast. I rarely have extra mana for these triggers. My turns are planned out so I'm completely out, or I'm holding up mana for responses
There’s a reason I only play fiery emancipation in my gishath deck, mostly cause it’s cool and also because gishath has 7 power and trample
I have it in my Atarka deck. Makes her an immediate kill and the rest of my dragons damn near unstoppable.
Same reason I play it in Etali, big dumb dino doing big dumb things 😂
@@r.a.w.780 Exactly. Besides mana dorks I don't know if I have a dragon that deals less than 4 damage (I've got probably 1 that does 4) So i'll take it.
@@jedbex7070 I really enjoy Fiery eman, I think i've won every game I played it 😂
I play it with Kaervek the merciless and love it lol
Fiery Emancipation: “If you don’t have a board” Then you should be recasting your commander. Especially if it has Flying or Trample.
The takeaway is that if you feel disapointment drawing a card you should probably take it out.
Well of Lost Dreams is goated in a lifegain deck. My Lyra Dawnbringer deck uses it heavily, but its definitely only brcause there's heavy lifegain synergy.
I used to use Well of Lost Dreams in my Darien deck but never got it to work because I almost always had a better card in hand. The commitment to using it was too much mana.
"I can't imagine a way to have this make more than 4 tokens with this in the first five turns" - no one who has ever played against a chatterfang deck
I run crucible of fire in my Goro-Goro and Satoru deck, because im flooding the board with dragons already, and it just means I can swing for lethal on at least one or two people at my table. It definitely is a winmore card, but in that deck it really does win more really good
I use fiery emancipation in burn....or to turn my 6 mana banefire into a kill spell. I dunno I would never slot it into a creature deck with the idea that my 1/1 is going to suddenly accomplish something. In something like hinata where I am controlling the board, this thing let's you output damage while holding up mana. Something like Immodane for example.
Methinks they don't fully understand how to use Fiery Emancipation
It's 2 days after I watched the video, but I came back to say that this quadrant thing really helps me to assess cards! Many thanks for the introduction! (Just passed on an Arcane Bombardment since it would only help me win.)
You could build a Naya token and counter doubler or proliferate deck around Assemble the Legion where you accellerate the Muster counters, token output, or both. It wouldn't be a top tier deck, but you can tutor for the pieces that get it started easily enough.
Fiery emancipation is a finisher. You dont just play it and leave it sitting on the board, you play it once you have a decent board state and can just get though with a ton of dmg to win.
They covered this.
yeah... that's what they said
I play this in my Ovika deck. I cast it after my commander is on the board and then lights out. Of course I already have things on the board like Cavalcade of Calamity, Raid Bombardment, Impact Tremors, Goblin Bombardment etc. . .
@@dandonaldson9149 according to edhrec only 4% of red deck are running it so really i dont think it belongs on this list of things you need to cut from your deck. there are a couple other cards i dont agree with on this list ether.
Hunter's Insight works well in my [[Skullbriar]]. It only gets better further into the game when card draw is needed more. You can almost always swing at someone for 8+ damage with the commander, and if it 's removed, recast later and try next turn
I think you're right in most cases about as fortold. Its awesome in my oloro upkeep tribal deck...one of my favorite cards there, and its crazy good in mono blue control, not having to leave up all the mana for counterspells, i can use as foretold to get free value. Its dope, my kess grixis control deck adores it, and my sen triplets deck does well with it. But in other decs that really only focus on doing things on my turn....yeah, not great. Parity breaker for sure, developing 100%, and its saved me a few times....casting narsets reversal on expropriate is a rude thing to do. They forget you can cast a free spell with it, and you slam a clutch card on them.
I have never understood why Nitpicking Nerds look at these issues so flatly as a "winning position".
This is a 4 person game where between your next turn, you have 3 opponents who will try to stop you. I actually played HUNDREDS of games where drawing extra cards when I was "winning" at the table saved my ass because everyone else was focusing on me...
Likewise, playing cards that look like Win-More is not always stupid in a 4-player game... After all, the difference between killing even 1 player and 2 players (not to mention the full win) is worth playing with such cards - Of course, the deck needs to be HEAVY balanced and only play with a few of these cards. A very good example here is Utvara Hellkite - it is a card that even plays in cEDH as a finisher, and you here claim that it is a pure "win-more"... it is one of the best finishers in red, you don't even need to have another dragon so that it becomes a threat by itself - and playing it in a "late" game, after Board-Wipe, is the perfect moment... Judging this card as "weak" because it doesn't work in "development" is simply contrary to even the basic rules for building a Commander deck. Additionally - there are a lot of effects in dragons that give Haste to dragons - which often survive Board Wips, and then Utvara actually wins the game ;)
Second Harvest is good because it's Instant - so you play it with the end of the player in front of you in order to "Surprise" everyone by having a "mid" or even "light ahead" position in a "winning" position. And there are so many decks that can use it... And the fact that it is instant gives a huge advantage here - because you will NOT play it after a board wipe, but you haven't lost a card at all... you would if you played it. I don't understand this logic at all... Yes, of course, you no longer have your tokens - but your deck is designed to create them quickly - so you will soon be able to play to get ahead again. This card won me so many games in Lathril, Blade Of The Elves - as a surprise, these 4-5 tokens, suddenly I have 10 of them and I can use Ltarhil's ability (and ther is practically the same card in green, which also costs 4 mana but it's " elf-tribal" but sorcery - I dropped it from the deck very quickly in the testing phase - precisely for the reasons you described for Second Harvest).
At the end, however, I appreciate the effort put into creating this - it's nice that there is a rating system, and it's nice that it shows how you look at the game. I may not agree with it, but I appreciate the contribution - and the fact that I can argue (even here in the post) why I disagree with it. So, good job - even though I don't support the opinion on most of the cards shown here (not as generally as I should specify ;P).
Of course, my opinion is mine - and it can be just as wrong/imperfect/stupid - and that's why we love Commander, every player has an opinion :D
I am planning out my Aurelia rebuild, Fiery Emancipation and Kyren Negotiations are part of the plan. I'm going with a tokens theme and I think these 2 cards will work out well.
I’m a little confused. You guys preach that fun comes before winning, however you make the most in depth edh breakdowns and say don’t spend 6 mana on fiery emancipation or grave titan cause it’s not powerful enough. I’m getting mixed messages.
I feel like this channel has gotten way more spike-y since Joe left.
I feel like they are trying to appeal to a more serious audience. You can’t run a business appealing to just one singular demographic. To draw attention to your channel, you need to speak to more people rather than just one type of person.
I agree with both harris and carter. But I will say this: There is one flaw with this quadrant theory. It's assuming that you're hard casting all of these spells. Yes, most of the time you are, but there are some decks where it doesn't apply. Either way, for the most part, this quadrant theory makes a lot of sense. Casting higher cost spells early in the game will slow you down a lot or screw you unless they have a very powerful upside.
Hunter’s Insight is great in voltron decks where you’re running evasion anyway.
Did you say Yargle and Multani? Because that’s what I heard ;)
Well of lost dreams is actually fairly decent in a Saheeli deck if you are generating treasure tokens. Otherwise, it's pretty inefficient. On a side note, I can't remember if I've tried The Magic Mirror in my Locust God deck, but maximum hand size is always fun in that deck, so I might give it a whirl since I am casting draw spells the first few turns anyways, and with a lot of wheel effects, it's an easy pitch if you don't need it.
Why would a Saheeli deck play this over artifact draw synergies? Life gain isnt the decks MO. Youre better off with Jhoira, Sai, or skull clamp
@@phoenixgemini42 I might have been on drugs when I wrote this....not sure.
as foretold is in my ezuri proliferate deck. generally if i can get it out by or before turn 3 it'll have 5 counters the turn after if i have the right hand, otherwise it's discard fodder for other cards.
black market is in my sheoldred deck that runs 13 board wipes. i never play it unless i can cast it and a board wipe the same turn, which my deck can do easily with all the mana doubler's and cheap rocks it has
i play utvara in my miirym deck, with all the haste enablers like dragon tempest or temur ascendancy i can usually cast it and get a copy or 2 from it. then full swing and have like 10 6/6's in the back. and usually after playing a big dragon like that i'm either getting a bunch of cards, etb damage, or just kill everyone
Great video, thats why i support your channel. You always bring fresh ideas and new spins. Real commander theorists
Thanks, that's our goal :D Always looking for new and fun ways to share our ideas!
I definitely agree with these cards, even though they are still fine, it's just hard to justify a lot of the investments required to make them worth keeping in a deck. Of course there are always exceptions, like Well of Lost Dreams is actually just busted in Sheoldred, the Apocalypse, but you're always going to have those synergies that pop up.
StA is one of two commanders I have found Well to be playable in. The other is Queza. I've cut it from Sheoldred, even, but despite my Queza deck being mono wheels, Well still works really well there.
what kind of metas do you guys play in. its not like every card in your opponents hands are farewell and swords to ploughshares. if a card is good but bad cause of removal than every card fits under that category. hunters insight is so good, early or late regardless of removal. its hardly a mana investment in green. just my opinion
also if removal makes it bad than something like old mawbone is bad which we all know isn't true
I have sheoldred in two decks, one is sauron lord of the rings, I loaded it with cycle cards, for archfiend of ifner, and if I loot her and reanimate her early usually there are a couple creatures already in the yard, not necessarily good creatures, but i also have the 1st urabrask, and jin gataxiios, for looting I have likeness looter, the orc that came with it, and Rhona, chainer and anger also for haste
The other deck is negan, with tergrid, but she's probably the next 1 or 2 cards I may cut
Utvara Hellkite is so amazing in my Miirym Sentinel Wyrm deck tho. 8 mana (90% of the time 1 or 2 mana (from sneak attack or other cheat effects)) for 2+ 6/6 that make double or more the 6/6 dragons
And my miirym deck is getting close to optimal that I can cast my 6 mana command on turn 2 so followed by multiple 6+ drops on turn 4 or 5
As I've been building and testing more decks recently I've realized more and more that doubling season, parallel lives, and anointed procession are win more type cards. It makes me sad but they do not make the cut as often... mondrak,, adrix and nev, and ojer taq have been making the cut more often strictly because they are creatures so they have much better synergy.
Don’t you play hunters insight prior to damage after attackers and blockers are declared? If so then I think it’s great
I feel the only one of these that's "wrong" is Well of Lost Dreams, solely because it's not really meant to do almost anything y'all graded it on. It's incidental card draw, meant for you to dump some excess mana into occasionally. Is it being overplayed? Yeah, probably, because by itself it's not gonna do much. It should only go in decks where nearly every spell/effect has a random "gain 1 life" tacked on, but that's part of the fun of EDH. Finding those janky cards that your deck can exploit (such as in UG with Horizon Chimera out or in a Queza, Augur of Agonies deck).
Everything else, spot on (though I'd offer a small counterpoint and say Reya really only goes in reanimator decks anyway, where you're probably cheating her into play for way less than 9-mana).
it's one of my favorite cards in my Dina deck. i could sneeze and i'd gain life with that deck, and card draw is a little lacking. if it's a deck that's only going to draw 3-4 cards it's trash, but if it draws you +15?
If you’re running a Themberchaud deck, Fiery Emancipation usually signals death. Usually a Lightning Bolt for 60-90 damage is following it. That card gives me Thumberchuds (The sour belches)
Assemble the legion works with Ceasar, Legions Emperor because each turns it gives you tokens to sac. So if you get wiped, you can still cast Caesar next turn and have some tokens thanks to Assemble. That´s why I still play it in that deck, however, I have considered taking it our for something faster.
Cool visualization, although I think an unwritten benefit of some cards appearing "bad" in the early game is the whole "under the radar" side of edh which I think is powerful as well.
As Foretold is amazing in decks that play a lot of cheap instants. It says, "once each turn," so that includes your opponents' turns. Of course it's best if As Foretold comes out early so you can cast bigger spells for free, but even if it comes down late in a deck with a lot of cheap instants you can cast plenty of 1-2 cost spells for free each turn cycle. I really love using As Foretold to hold up interaction. I might be tapped out but have a Miscast, Pongify, or Counterspell in hand ready to go
I have an Oloro deck that gets a lot of mileage out of well of lost dreams since it runs a fair bit of mana rocks and has garanteed life gain
City on FIre is just better than Fiery Emancipation anyway
Crucible of fire is a must in my dragons build. Mine is Blue/Red with Ganax, Astral Hunter/Feywild Visitor background pair(Dragons and their treasures). The Feywild Visitor shits out 1/1 faerie dragons all game long basically. Making the meh 1/1's into 4/4's. Gets especially nuts when you have one of the cards out that makes dragons or creatures etb'ing deal damage equal to their power to something. Crucible puts a ton of pressure on the board in this deck and pretty much always has a constant stream of 1/1's to buff and not relying on only full cost dragons. But yes do agree in any standard "Pay full cost for 1 fat dragon at a time" type deck it's really not going to pull it's weight as much.
As a fan of mono black it saddens me just how not good Black Market is... it seems good at first and it rewards me for doing what I want to do, things dying, but I've never had it pay off in any meaningful way and I ended up cutting it from all my mono-black decks. In my experience by the time I got it down I was essentially at the point where I didn't need the benefit any longer.
It definitely can't deliver on some of the awesome promises it makes when you first read the card 😂
I've used it with some success when trying to ramp into a huge torment of hailfire. It's not great but has some fun moments.
It should be noted that As Foretold says "each turn". Any sort of deck that runs a ton of low cost instants can get a TON of value from this. 1 turn makes all your cantrips free. 2 turns gives you a free counterspell every turn. If it stopped there it would be fine.
I have hunters insight in my Sarulf, Realm Eater deck. It’s great because the board is always empty and my commander is always huge. Plus I have a bunch of cards that can give Sarulf trample or just double his power
Long time viewer and I just want to say I loved this video! Would love to see the best all rounders in a video.
really well thought out! love these types of vids
I like As Foretold in the precon it reprinted in. The time travel mechanic does make this a threat, since you're usually getting other time counter manipulation as well as this. But I agree it requires a deck that already works with its counters very well to be useful. Also, it goes great with flash and instants. A lot of people assume it's just a free spell on your turn but it's a free spell each turn.
The main problem I have with this Quadrant Theory is that some of these cards can still be good in certsin decks, sometimes even regardless of some of the quadrants. The quadrant theory seems to be more of a generalization. It is a good way of understanding Magic and cards as a whole though and when to play or not play cards.
I don't know how helpful this graph is... most cards won't score well when you stop and evaluate them like this.
It took me awhile but As Foretold has given me the most bang for my buck in my Ninth Doctor deck with the extra upkeeps :P
Utvara Hellkite I only keep in m Uruh deck. Because at a certain point either I've given my dragons haste or there is another dragon on the field doing the damage to trigger its ability. I've had games where my board state was destroyed and then I get 1 dragon + Utvara and my board state is back up.
Black Market I keep in decks that are enchantment-heavy decks (aka Yawgmoth and Davros). Sure you might take out Black Market but do you want to take out just one or a cheaper enchantment that's causing you more harm or fueling my engine of card draw? Usually, the opponent takes out the other enchantment. My only problem is not usually drawing into Black Market. I could tutor for it in Yawgmoth (I have like four tutors in the deck), but it's just a part of many in the black mana engine I run with it. I usually tutor either fielding what is the quicker option in winning or gauging.
So I'm content with keeping both within my ninety-nine.
Though Well of Lost Dreams and Door of Destinies were in my Edgar deck and I DID cut them from my deck. Focusing more on making the vampires mostly cheaper in coming onto the field. To get the maximum amount of vamps out.
I agree with black market 100%! I used to play it until one game I drew it right after a board wipe happened. Learned my lesson!
I think there is an argument for some of these that makes them good early game when you think about the politics. A few of the 4/5 mana cards mentions come down and do nothing initially which on the face of it aren’t great, however they also signal ‘I am not the threat’. In many decks that aren’t designed to take the game head on early, and equally a lot of newer players to magic might find it in their favour, playing these cards while someone else puts down a big problem can buy you almost 2/3 turns to build advantage from the shadows. I definitely agree with cutting the ‘win more’ cards though (or finding holes in a deck where you have nothing good to play when loosing)- they are hard to part with, and sometimes hard to spot, and this quadrant idea certainly helps to identify them.
Fiery emancipation has helped me quite a few times. My wife's merfolk deck has a tendency to be explosive. This let me wipe her board with blazing volley and burn my opponents out with burn spells. I'll never cut fiery emancipation.
I play decks that aim to win on turn 7, it's never been a dead draw for me
I do still run Utvara, but in my Ur Dragon deck so he's cheaper. That deck relies hard on Dragon ETBs, so the ability to basically double my Dragons is usually a finishing move. It triggers stuff like Terror of the Peaks, Dragon Tempest, and Scourge of Valkas like crazy.
It turns my deck from single-player removal to winning. I am aware most combat-focused Dragon decks don't need this, but Dragon ETB effects are the name of my game. That deck has no intention of waiting for next turn to get value off any Dragon
Well of lost dreams is medium to great in my Atraxa deck to refill my hand the turn after I cast Atraxa and after I’ve board wiped. Now that I think about it it’s terrible…. You’re right.😂
I just picked that card up today (out of a pile) and was like “I can’t remember why I don’t run this?” And set it back with my bulk.
What do you think about Legion Loyalty (in specifically Ratadrabik of Urborg)
With Marisi out and hunters insight, it's possibly green on everything but losing. Maybe developing it's still yellow
By the way, your bottom template thing where you put your current topic looks amazing ❤
Agreed with most except for second harvest. If it was sorcery I would agree but the fact it’s an instant turns it from just wait to my next turn into good game. Let’s shuffle up the next one. A lot of people are quick to call potential enders like this “win more”. This is a I win card in the right decks. Takes you sneakily from parity or even behind to I win
Fiery emancipation is an overrun effect, either for combat based decks or burn. It is a wincon. Win cons aren't useful except to win. It's not a "win more" card.
Fiery Emancipation is actually a really funny case because I'm (probably) putting one into my budget Imodane, the Pyrohammer deck because it triples twice. That's pretty much the only case. Might swap it with Isengard Unleashed though.
so crazy how Emancipation is budget now. WOT was awesome
you don't even have to attack with Utvara to get tokens. i run it it Myriim, it's almost never an 8 drop, and if it is, it's worth it when you're getting 2, 3, or 4+ of them. obviously everything depends on your meta, but that card has won me a ton of games.
Second Harvest in my Faldorn deck has overperformed almost everytime. I know it’s a specific scenario but that’s where some of these cards truly shine.
I think these kinds of analysis are super helpful. Second Harvest seems like a no-brainer in a token deck, but it's often not worth it except in more niche decks.
And I think that's the best way to think about it, the cards look generically good but in truth are more niche than they first appear. For example I built a Jacob deck that is mono-blue, plays lots of instants/sorceries, taps out frequently, and can stall out games. As Foretold is great in giving me that safety net of not needing to keep mana open for counterspells every turn cycle, and The Magic Mirror is much better when you cast for free/cheap and/or are bouncing creatures after everyone rebuilds. In other decks I'd play more ramp instead of Foretold, or something like Phyrexian Arena for card draw, but being locked to a single color changes how you evaluate cards.
Winning more is one of my main goals in Commander lol.
why even play commander if you can't win more or overkill your opponents? lol
@@Fausto_4841 Exactly. The game should be goofy and over the top. Not legacy singleton. Just play cEDH or Highlander if optimized builds are the only priority.
I have an Etali(gr) and a Maelstrom wanderer deck and neither wants to have Fiery Emancipation. Some games you just draw it and never want to cast it because there are better things to cast (usually your commander for the 6th time). The deck info play FE in is my Kyranos and Tiro enchantress deck, where I usually am looting Emancipation to the grave anyway so a drawn brick isn't as big of a deal, andmy win con is replenish anyway.
You just listed 3 decks, where i'd never ever would even consider playing FE because it doesnt fit at all
As foretold is still great in a Suspend-themed and cascade themed decks for those 0cmc cards that you cannot cast in from the hand.
Utvara is fun to cheat out with Magda especially if you have a haste enabler but at times I can't believe I ever used to hard cast it .
Fiery Emancipation is fantastic in an Imodane Burn deck because Imodane The Pyrohammer benefits exponentially from damage multipliers and deals that damage to the entire board. If you cast Fiery Emancipation, each point of damage Imodane does to your opponents is multiplied by 9, and now it pushes you to the point where you could cast a one mana lightning bolt on someone's random soldier token, that spell does 9 damage to that soldier, and now Imodane deals 27 damage to all of your opponents. You might instantly win the game off just that. You could even tap out to cast Fiery Emancipation and then Mine Collapse for free by sacking a mountain, and then deal 45 damage to everybody. Fiery Emancipation is your win button in Imodane Burn. :3c
Crucible of fire is scary when it comes out against me....but it doesn't feel like it can help turn the tables the same way fiery emancipation can....but it doesn't seem like a "win more" just a boost. It's great in parity and winning.
Hunter's Insight is busted in Treebeard, especially when you want to keep your cmc low.
I use a lot of these cards and get plenty of value out of them. You really just need to know how to use them. Like As fortold is in my Alela, Cunning Conqueror deck and since I’m primarily trying to cast flash spells on opponents turns I get 3 free flash/instant spells per rotation! Fiery Emancipation in my Lathliss deck allows me to swing for 21 commander damage on the turn it comes out which is pretty cool. I also run Utvara and Crucible of Fire in that deck and I feel very called out by your video lol
Same, They've called out a few cards in the past that actually lead to wins in the past and its become a bit of a meme at the shop because one kid watches these guys religiously keeps saying NN said this card is good or bad and he loses. i don't like videos like this because with new players they treat it like gospel. the cards the mentioned can all be bad, great, or game breaking its just a matter of how you build the deck.
It’s so worrying seeing that I’m picking not picking bad cards can’t tell if I’m back at building or if this is starting to be a skill issue lol
Assemble the Legion is a superfriends card. It is rather good for protecting your walkers and plays super well with proliferate, and eventually wins the game by itself. r/w agro type decks can do better for certain, but in commodore guff/ other superfriends decks with red mana....one hell of a roleplayer!
Hunter's Insight is....awesome? Do you play it in a deck that can't reliably expect to be getting through with a 4-5 power creature, likely one with hexproof....no...you dont. In a deck that expects to be able to do that...draw 5 for 3 is pretty good I hear.
I agree that crucible, fiery emancipation, reya and magic mirror area all pretty bad, and second harvest and utrvara are pretty win-more. All the other cards are great card in the decks that they can fill a vital role in
I've never personally seen anyone use assemble the legion but without help it seems absolutely horrendous 5 mana to get a single 1/1 on your next turn seems so bad off the bat. Also b/c its slow it feels like it just gives your opponents time to find answers for when it gets to be actually good.
Okay, but counter point: one time an opponent played fiery emancipation and then proceeded to loose every mana crypt flip and died to it. And that was really funny.
I could see playing Assemble the Legion in a Naya deck that is ramping to get it out early and running counter and token doublers, but I feel like there are better options.
You could say the higher the mana cost and the longer the delay in getting the pay off, the worse the card gets, which is why everybody loves playing 1 drop instants.
I'm pretty sure Black Market is most wanted in an aristocrats shell. When you're saccing your own stuff anyway it's pretty nice. And you'll benefit from chump blocking anyone trying to break through your cheap creatures. Have had to use multiple D20s for the amount of counters Black Market has accrued in some games.
Shirei jizzes with this card.
I love Second harvest in my Stangg Echo Warrior deck. Most fun voltron ever imo
crucible of fire would be an absolute bomb in a changeling deck tho
Something I think is a little underrated which corner cards like these is: "How Immediate of a Response is Needed?"
I feel there are a lot of cards in MTG that don't exactly do anything the turn (or first couple turns) they hit the field but WILL get out of control if left alone. So I think there is something to be said for running /certain/ cards as a sort of "Removal Bait" that if unanswered will aid you in winning the game.
Also you should never run these cards unless you deck can capitalize off them and also enable them. Black Market shouldn't be in anything that doesn't sac its own creatures- Well of Lost Dreams probably only belongs in decks that already capitalize off lifegain like Trelasarra or Oloro.
10/10 video as always. 😎👌
What's your favorite CMC?
(Overall, not in a specific deck.)
I love ramping on 2, so 4 seems like the correct answer. But then again double spelling is awesome. So my answer is 2. What's your answer and why?
Talion loves 2
All the fun spells are 4 mana imo. Clones, etc.
I think from a power level perspective, you're right, but the whole point of a casual format like commander is that we get to play these huge spells with big payoffs even if they're technically not the best. Everyone loves playing big win buttons like Akroma's will or Craterhoof even though from a power standpoint we should all be playing more wraths instead
Any card that says counters can be proliferated into oblivion, especially durring the opening stages, as foretold and assemble the legion are both cards that only feel slow cause ur not taking advantage of speeding up the timers
As soon as I saw Hunter's Insight I thought "Hey, that looks like a less good version of Family's Favor"