Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Mysteries, Myths, and Motives | Jon Snow's Twin
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Mysteries, Myths and Motives Part 4.
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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Everyone is a secret Targaryen - ASOIAF Reddit
Everyone is a secret Dayne - Order of the Green Hand
Technically Val would be a secret Stark in this scenario
The Order of the Green Hand
Very true!
Beta Targaryen
Sigma Dayne
Want to hear a good one? Haldon, as in Haldon Halfmaester, translates in Danish to "half-dane" lol.
Thoroughly enjoy yaws somewhat cuttin edge theories! It keep and peeks my interest for ASOI&F!! You guys are awesome but I must admit I tilt towards Marry E…. Bruh your a fortunate dude… appreciate yaw!!!
Just saw this old comment…
Can’t believe I didn’t realise…back then…
The Valyerians are based on a combo of Romans and one of the elven like ethnicities in Lord of the Rings…
What would Val be short for I wonder… ha ha
Also the possible female variants of Val…Valerie, Valentine etc all go back to a Latin root of Valarius which was a founding patrician family name of the fort Roman Republic.
And Griffin (young Griff) means Prince…
Hmm…
Val and Young Grif twins seems most likely
Super like! Good job!
Thank you!
It would be an big twist if it was Val that was actually born at the ToJ , and Arthur Dayne has been watching over her ever since and N+A=J is true.
Richard Horton what about Aegon then? Why send Ashara and Walys to Jon for his protection?
N+A=j not true
did she make an appearance in the show? i cant remember
Caylan Ambursley she didn't sadly :(
Thats so much fucking bullshit lol
Insightful
Good point. I've changed my mind! Thank you for convincing me!
Yes it is. They also like to censor people when they cannot disprove them in an argument. This channel needs to be dislike bombed. They base all of their argument on false narratives and hearsay. They also use sock puppet accounts to gang up on people.
yeah totally,blame them for coming up with their own theories unlike any other got related channel that just repeats every shit mainstream theory making minimal effort,just to attract viewers
Thank you Akatsuki!! Go away Jane.
And if Jon said yes?
...Stannis would say
"Psych! It was a test and you failed. Go back to your old job, you Jamie wannabe! "
that's why i don't hold this theory to be credible. It's not backed by any evidence nor does it have any logic to it.
@@HelenWA They gave plenty of evidence.
One of the funniest things about this set of theories (if true) is that Jon Snow has been moping around for book after book feeling like he has no true family--and the kid is effing surrounded!!!!!!!!
exactly! we are hoping that we are right. Jon deserves some joy in his life, he's already grim enough.
+The Order of the Green Hand Well, he does take after his father...*wink*
too true
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhandthe blue eyed women coming out of the forest to the sight of the current Lord commander. Kinda reminds me of the night King and his bride lol
Also Jon is always like:"I'm a bastard(insert sad thoughts)". But Ned is like:"He's a bastard but he's still my son". And Rob named Jon his heir. He is also Arya's favourite person in the world and she constantly thinks about him.
So assuming Jon and Val aren’t related, I think Jon and Val as couple make more sense than Daenerys and Jon, especially with only two books left.
The Night Fort will soon be available. She dresses all in white. White like the moon. Dun dun dun.
@@nononono3421 best joke ever😂😂
Probably won't happen. Jon explained a few times in his POV chapters how he *could* have had her, but gave up those chances. Likely for his love of Ygritte while also not wanting to love a girl just for her beauty or status (which are the 2 main reasons everyone else wants her)
Besides, they have a fun dynamic and parallel in the books and its refreshing just seeing 2 warriors having a platonic friendship
@@Ismail-kv3ex I could go either way. Keep in mind that Jon was going to say yes to Stannis before he saw Ghost show up and remembered what would happen to the Heart Tree. The North has fought an awful lot of wars over that, and no Northman would support a Stark who did it. It seems Bran or Bloodraven had something to do with Jon's decision there.
"Nobody expects the Stanis Inquisition!" LOL!!!!
he's so good at it...people underestimate his ability to play the game because he clearly hates it, but hating the game and being unable to play it are two different things
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand love this
Best comment this side of the Trident!
Laughed the moment 8 saw it
So.. uh... hair color? I know that is is possible to end up with blond hair with two dark haired parents, but considering the shit that happens about Roberts hair color, makes it hard for me to justify that leap in statistics. Also, why did Ned not also care for Val? why not have Val go with Ashara?
The Dayne family has a ton of blondes
There are twins that don't look the same. Therr was a case where two twins looked the opposite race.
Val... Allyria.. Valyria?
Not really consistent with the video but something that occurred to me.
Didn't Olenna Tyrell tell Sansa that nearly every family in the Reach can trace their lineage back to Greenhand?
I always got the feeling that GRRM was trying to tell us that lineage isn't as important as it appears in Westerosi culture. That's one of the main aspects of Stannis's character arc.
The fact that the Lord's right to First Night on new marriages is constantly mentioned, and was going on everywhere for thousands of years? Any noble blood sure as hell isn't unique or only existing in the official noble family. Bastards everywhere.
And even every high Lord's houses can trace themselves into some Targeryan marriage. Not even Targeryans are "pure blood" despite the incest... Yeah, blood doesn't really matter in this story, not the way the characters themselves think.
Fullbreasted.. what a perfect term hahaha
After seeing how Game of Thrones had ended, I deeply want this to happen! I do not want Jon to be a secret Targaryen.
Agreed
Why would George give D&D the job for GOT for answering the question of who was Jon Snow's mother correctly, but then write the show wrong? This theory makes no sense that Jon isn't a secret Targ just b/c we already know that from George himself.
@@ddtmstudioanimations4643 Considering how the show went and the annotated books… I doubt R+L=J… and doubt it pretty heavily. Then what I know writers rooms do… They tend to meld storylines together in bits and pieces. Especially in a rush job. So I suspect they combined Young Griff and Jon for the show.
@@Outlaw8908 jon is a targareyn though.
@@JokersVsZombies It hasn't been stated in the books yet.
Does Val know this secret or is she in the dark like Jon? Seems like a lot of major characters are in on this conspiracy but no one wants to tell Jon.
i doubt it's that complex
No wonder that Martin takes so long for his books, when even minor characters get a rich lore =D.
we've been trying to explain that to people for what seems like forever....all these idiots who think he sucks at writing and doesn't know how to end it don't understand how thoroughly researched every aspect of his story is
The other problem with this level of depth is the REAL story while ‘there’ isn’t really apparent to most readers. For all these s Crete to be revealed so late in the game seems odd. By odd I mean it has to be flushed out in 2 books while still addressing all the ‘real’ plot lines
Why would Stannis offer Jon his own twin?
As a test of Jon's character...Jon's character being tested is a very common theme throughout the series...it starts at the very beginning of the books, then Mormont tests him, Maester Aemon tests him, Qhorin Halfhand tests him (with Ygritte), Mance tests him, and Stannis tests him...he passes every test...that's why he's the hero and worthy of the title sword of the morning
The wording of the question implies Stannis knows the totality of what he's offering. Did I miss it, or is there an explanation of how Stannis knows about Jon's parentage and secret twin? Stannis offering Jon a title and a woman is a test of his vows and honor. Stannis offering Jon his own sister, when both Jon and Stannis know who she is to him, is just perverse.
If Val is Jon's twin, he's blissfully unaware of the fact, so how would accepting/refusing her hand in marriage be indicative of his character in any way, shape or form?
It will show his dedication to his vows, which forbids him to take a wife.
Probably because it's in targaeryan nature to keep the blood lines pure by mating with ur family, plus he wouldn't know she was his twin so...
And with this video you have swayed me. R+L is starting to sound like a red herring. Since hearing your theory I have wished that Aurthur Dayne outlived ttoj scene, and all of the evidence presented seems 100% in fitting with Grrm's writing style, every description is thoughtfully crafted to show not tell the reader his truths. Always loved your videos but this is the one that convinced me that this holds water.
Another piece to your puzzle might be her name. As we all know, GRRM loves to twist them and Allyria looks a lot like Valeria. It's a quite common name in Europe, one of it's nicknames is Val and the latin meaning is "Strong, Capable".
ShtyepaanCZ Val + Allyria = Valyria and Valeria are similar. Val + Jon = Von? Von is a name that means Dawn.
I read the books so long ago and viewed the HBO show in a relatively short period last year. I knew the show took liberties with the story. I see all the little foreshadowing when I read the books. Love that you only base your theories on the novels. Thank you for being novel purists.
the books and the show are two completely separate entities, and should be treated accordingly
I agree. I've enjoyed this so much. Thank you.
Thank you for watching
Just got into watching your vids with the ending of Game of Thrones. I love theories and seeing the research. Considering the "MAJOR plot point" that was revealed in GoT meant nothing in the end, along with other things, these theories keep my interest in A Song of Ice and Fire. The important point and endgame may end up being the same but the journey will be so different with all the side characters and plots that were left out. Keep up the good work
It might be nothing..... but then again, it could be everything. fantastic video.
that should be one of our slogans. haha
I spotted a small point on a reread, which I wanted to share
"You know nothing, Jon Snow" (Val, ADWD)
OBSERVATION
Stannis refers to Val as the Wildling Princess.Jon repeatedly points out that Wildling titles are not hereditary like Westerosi titles; Stannis pays no heed. At face value, Val is a princess because she is the sister of Dalla, who was the Queen-Beyond-The-Wall because she married Mance. No Westerosi siblings-of-consorts take the title Prince/Princess. Queen Cersei's siblings are not called Prince Jaime and Prince Tyrion. More even than that, some siblings-of-monarchs don't take the title Prince/Princess. King Robert's siblings are not called Prince Stannis and Prince Renly; King Robb's are Prince Bran etc.Therefore, to be a Prince or Princess, you need to be a direct descendant of a monarch, or maybe a sibling of a monarch (but not the sibling of a monarch's consort).Therefore, under Westerosi succession laws, Val is not a Princess.
Stannis is a pedant, whose entire plot arc is based on a stubborn reading of correct succession.
I therefore do not find it plausible that Stannis would make this mistake, and continue to make this mistake even after it was pointed out. I therefore reject the face-value reading. Therefore, he knows something that we don't, and that Jon Snow doesn't, and this something explains the title Princess Val.
Mance had the opportunity to communicate this to Stannis and Melisandre without Jon hearing.If Stannis is correctly referring to her as a princess, then it is because she is one in her own right, not by association with Mance.
Vikram Patel because she is THE Princess. Born at the Tower of Joy. Daughter of Rhaeger and Lyanna. Still being protected by the three Kingsguards. She is badass like Lyanna.
Now this, I like much better than the theory in the video. As in Val being the fruit of R+L and Jon being a red herring, while actually being thh fruit of N+A relationship. Val and Jon as twins? Mehh. Val actually being Rhaegar's daughter? Stannis insisting on addressing her as Princess would make much more sense.
Bottom line: George, we need that book! We need answers, George. I don't mind waiting, but I need that book.
@@pipitameruje Im with you bro, regarding needing the book... and also that R+L=Val, is much more interesting... also that would make sense to the three dragon heads, maybe Aegon is not a fake construct of Varys but the real Aegon after all. All this theories are making my head spin...
I'd be more onboard but for hair color, unless she dyes it. Her hair is honey blonde, not silver blonde. It's a color that's not in either family. Other than that, it makes a lot more sense than any other theory, and if true it ties a lot of OotGH's theories together quite nicely without forcing us to believe Varys and Illyrio are good guys. Ned being forced to work with men he despises, I think, applies to Hoster Tully for forcing the marriages or Tywin for being Tywin. Ned/Cat never visited Riverrun, and Hoster never came North. There would need to be a pretty good reason for that. Rhaegar was also convinced he'd have a daughter for the three heads of the dragon thing (that could just have been Targaryen narcicism though)
It does beg the question of why they never brought Jon into their conspiracy when he is so obviously a good fit.
After watching your videos I definitely think there's more to Mance, but I have a hard time believing he's Arthur Dayne. I really just cannot get behind Val being Jon's twin sister, though.
Very interesting theories, however, I'm definitely interested in hearing more.
thank you...we always appreciate people who watch with an open mind
Grey eyes just like john
what if val is the child of rhaegar and lyana? it makes sense because then she stayed with arthur dane, so he could protect her, and it explains why she looks so regal, why she has both stark and valyrian features.
I’m convinced Val is Griff’s twin & Meera is Jon’s. This might be one of the only OOTGH takes I disagree with, but I don’t see many others out there positing this, that I’ve found
This was the comment I was looking for... this makes the most sense to me. Val & Aegon are twins, and Jon is their cousin. Or at least I hope. The whole r+l= j never made sense to me. It's too simple.
Her hair is the color of honey, which is something found in none of the families. Ash or dark brown yes, gold no.
@@jacobenke7936 Good catch, but if memory serves me right, one of the Targ's had golden hair and mismatched eyes. (Rhaena Targaryen, Baelor the Blessed's sister, had golden hair. Alyssa Targaryen had mismatched eyes). The mismatched eyes is what makes me believe Tyrion could be a Targ.
Nope, I don't believe it
1. All the evidence presented is flimsy at best, Stannis offers Val because he believes whoever marries the 'princess of the wildlings' will replace Mance as their King, and either is throwing in Winterfell to sweeten the deal or isn't offering it to anyone other than Jon and Axell Florent misunderstood what was being offered. The strongest evidence was the Val/Ghost moment, but that is most likely explained by Val having some understanding of Warging and realizing that Ghost would reflect his master's feelings of infatuation with her.
2. Ned had no reason to separate twins, and even if he had he would surely have chosen to instead take the daughter who would be less threatening to his 'trueborn' children.
3. If Val was Jon's sister, who was Dalla? Were they secret triplets, making Mance incestuous? If Val and Dalla were not sisters, why would they lie about it?
4. If Val was at Starfall all this time, how did she end up North of the Wall with Mance by the time Jon encounters them in ACoK? This would presumably have required Mance to travel from Winterfell all the way to Dorne to meet her and Dalla, before returning back north and gathering the Free Folk in the Frostfangs all before Jon encounters them 9 months later.
5. You have claimed that Mance being one of the first characters mentioned in the series indicates that he is more important than he seems. If so, and if Val is a secret Stark & Dayne, why is she not mentioned until Jon meets her in ACoK? She could have been a perfect PoV characters to show us what Mance was doing. Indeed, when we first meet her she doesn't do or say much, although Jarl is used to remind us of her occasionally.
6. Unlike Tyrion's companions the reader is not encouraged to ask questions about Val, and unlike Mance the reader is not told a backstory for Val that may hint at contradictions or mysteries. Val's apparent nobility seems to set her apart from the Free Folk, but the Thenns establish that the Wildlings are not uniform in lacking nobles, and it's possible she was just playing the part of princes as requested and/or instructed by Stannis.
7. Whether or not Mance is Arthur Dayne, Osha's comments establish that the Free Folk don't see Mance as truly one of them. If Dalla and Val weren't Wildlings, Mance's marriage would only worsen the Free Folk's opinion of him. I think it more likely that Mance tried to solidify his claim by marrying a Wildling, and was extremely careful to choose the best available option, hence Val & Dalla seeming more intelligent than the average wildling.
I'm glad I found your page. So far all your theories make way more sense than any other. Especially R+L=J. I've always thought that was too simple for GRRM and really didn't make sense.
DocHoliday it REALLY doesn’t seem likely to be true in the show, if its not also true in the books.
I’m fairly certain R+L=J is just as true to Martin’s vision as Jon being resurrected is.
And honestly; if not for the internet, there aren’t many who would have ever guessed R+L=J. I mean, the evidence is there, but you have to actually think outside the box to see it.
It’s also not exactly really simple; R taking L is literally what threw the realm into warfare and chaos.
That doesn’t make sense, if it wasn’t for a purpose.
You're theories are completely unfounded. The real question that should be asked is.... Who is HotPie REALLY?
when it turns out that we're right, maybe you will look into getting a new hat, cause that one is obviously squeezing your head a bit tight
That's racist.
hahahaha...I think I like you
Unlikely; its probably just the hat.
Joseph Barton ...or in spite of the hat.
OH MY GOD!!!!! WTF i actually hope this is true, seems very likely to be true
agh this is frustrating, its thin and getting thinner. I feel like your giving us an alternative and I like it that your theories aren't propped up by others in the community which is refreshing but agh I just can't make these leaps with the evidence provided here. Like Mance being a good fighter is not sufficient evidence for being Arthur Dayne and so on...
I wish you would do more to disprove the prevaliant reasoning. Like why would the three kingsgaurd flee at the tower of joy, what about the well chronicled allegiance those men had to Rhaegar, and so on (why Mel thinks she was a slave)
I like it but there is no smoking gun yet. Like the crow saying blood here, you can only take that as evidence if you assume your theory is true as oppose to it being evidence of your theory. And I get it thats how these things work but come on this is something that is frequent with these kind of videos (preston can be guilty of this as well) avoiding the context in which the text is read and written and providing your own context, that which would support your theories.
But you have also added a lot to the conversation, giving cause to the Varys's coin is a big one. Love the idea of the order of the green hand and you have sufficiently made me consider that Mance, Val and Thormund are not who they say they are. How Mance made it to winterfell is another one, and adds to my own theories on the matter (of course we all have our own theories)
So Thank you for the good work, I'm not completely on board but I'll certainly keep watching and stay subbed.
One question I believe you have not covered. Do you believe Mance sent the Catspaw and paid him with the silver he brought with him? I do...
Mance being a good fighter was one of about 12 things we cited as our reason for believing this...the white tent, his knees not bending easily, which is a statement used only 2 times, both pertaining to Arthur if we're correct...I don't see how the kingsguard's allegiance to Rhaegar is pertinent to this situation...he's dead...Robert said he was dead (and he would likely know since he killed him), Ned saw his dead body, and GRRM said he was cremated (which I think we can agree makes him pretty dead)...we're not entirely sure that "Melony & Lot 7" actually means she was a slave...I've read those two passages about 50 times each and get a different feeling from it half the time...it almost seems like she wants to rectify something that happened there...we've also considered the idea that Varys (her son in our opinion) was sold to the mummers troop there, and she used the name Melony then...there are a lot of possible meanings of those thoughts...and just about everything the raven says is pertinent...unless its saying "corn" just about every other thing it says is spot on...we don't expect everyone to believe us or agree with us...in fact, a lot of our favorite regular commenters almost never agree with us...we know that we're definitely swimming against the current. Why would Mance want to kill Bran? Did the Catspaw have silver?
Sorry for the delayed response as I was in the middle of a re-ead when I posted this and wanted to actually get to the points of contention in the book before I commented again.
I also wanted to see more of your videos too. (I've seen almost all of them now)
R+L+A genuinely blew my mind, agh, I have to think about it more I've yet to come up with any kind of legit skepticism but as far as the story goes it fits. Which is what I like so much about it, I think that is a key component of an asoiaf theory, it has to be first and foremost supporting good storytelling and to have Lemore caring for one baby on the other side of the world from where Jon was cared for by Ned makes for good storytelling... My only question is how does it fit the lie? A better claim? Is that still the case (great council of 101)? Are the backfyre's attempting a sort of coup with the false prince? I imagine you have a different idea of Varys and Illyrio (not backyres) haven't seen all your vid's yet... And most of all do you see his true lineage being revealed in our story and in the same way people think of Jon unifying fire and Ice the same will happen with aegon? I know this is a different topic from my op but I'd appreciate any response as it is my favorite of your theories... thanks (:
as for my original response
There all similar though, (imo) white tent, knees not easily bent, just not strong enough evidence for me, that is enough to have me say Mance is Arthur Dayne.
Now that I've re-read the fight seems to stand out. (is mance really that good) well he did face off against like three magnar of Thenn's (or something like it ) and went around proving himself again and again for the free folk to call him king so he maybe but of course so is Dayne
(watching your tower of hoy vids atm...)
I agree about Mormont's raven (I assume you think it is Bloodraven haven't re-read that part yet or maybe I missed it...) I think the Raven isn't bloodraven but the force behind the lord of light
Yep they found some silver he left behind in the stables. I would assume Joffrey would pay with gold not silver. The dagger is another question. My believing this has to do with what I think about the ww and the nw... Really not sure though I would have to assume that Mance is aware of bloodraven's plans. Really Idk its my best guess. Another guess would be a Bolton plot. I won't post it all here but a short summary.
WW need first men blood to procreate. Ancient Starks descend from WW. Nights Fort was a place of sacrifice for this cause. Alysane put an end to a lot of this. Prologue of AGOT highlights this as Royce has ties to first men. Mance found out and left to fight for a side of the living. In ACOK it seems that the leadership of NW is still doing this in secret. It is why only Sam is with Jon in front of heartree during vows (where are the northmen in general) and so on... (as this is what was going on in ACOK with Jon's plot) I'm not so hot on this anymore, thought of it my last re-read of ACOK with the ironborn also playing a big part...
On my latest re-read of ADWD it seems something else is going on. I used to assume that Ghost motivating Jon's decisions was Bloodravens work but we've got nothing from Bloodraven to suggest this. He's trying to get to Bran not Jon. In JonVI This is shown. As Mel appears to him as Ygrette. Jon cast a shadow as tall as the wall. And Ghost cosy's up to Mel as he often does. Long story short Jon has been influenced by the lord of light in opposition to Bran and BR. Mel's chapter also shows this especially, the beg. of the ch.
One of if not the most important chapters in the book for me so far is Jon taking the recruits to the heart tree and encountering Wun Wun and some free folk. Violence is avoided as one of the men speaks the old tongue and they are able to communicate. Avoiding an unnecessary slaughter, in-front of the heart tree, in-front of the children, all can be avoided in the world of men by simply communicating learning the others language and reasoning with empathy. The world of men isn't simply meant for destruction they can communicate and the children don't have to stop them to save the world... All the ideas in direct opposition to this (the powers that manipulate men to kill men are the stories antagonist, no right side, no good vs evil)
Hi David, I saw this last night, but was too tired to give you a good response, and I just remembered it right now. I will send you a reply tomorrow. Thank you for the really well thought out comment.
Creations, have a look at this:
thenextweb.com/insider/2016/06/29/got-rlj-omg-wtf-yay/#.tnw_Q5fjFBPs
Hi James- new alias? Here's what I have to say in response to the info graphic put out by HBO. m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58e41084e4b0f4a923b319d0
‘Why would a man marry the uglier sister?’ Geez man, I hope if you have sisters in law they don’t see this lol
Like, that puts every single relationship into question. Except for anyone with Cersei, Margarey, Sansa, and Dany.
i know this is late but if Stannis is aware that Jon and Val are siblings then why would he offer to have Jon marry her? The Mannis is definitely not the kinda man that would tolerate incest. I mean look at his reaction with the Lannister twins. Ive loved all your theories but this one i just cant get behind
Yeah even i thought the same
While I agree that most of your arguments for this theory seem pretty solid, I've got a pair of different ones. What if instead of Jon, Val is actually the twin sister to either Aegon (Lyanna's son, not Elia's) or Dany? While Preston Jacobs may have been mistaken about his Tower of Joy theory, he did raise a lot of good points about the inconsistencies in Dany's past. What if she had been born with a twin sister, raised in Dorne during his early childhood, then separated from her sister for their protection? Same basic concept could also work with Aegon. Plus, given that twins would likely be twice as hard on a birthing mother's body, it would also explain why/if/how their mother died in childbirth.
What'cha think?
Tellemicus Daenerys is who says she is. Val.lyria may learn the truth from his uncle before he died, we know Edric is Lord now. And travel to North to meet his brother/other supposed to be dead uncle after Ned went to Stormlands to Dondarrions. Val also has a paramour which is a Dornish thing.
As interesting as the Jon's twin theory is, I just don't buy it.
Her being the younger sister of Ashara and Arthur does make sense to me though.
There must be always a Stark in Winterfell... I think, because of the crypts. Theon (Reek) goes down with Lady Dustin to the crypts for a chit-chat and... Some swords are missing from Brandon Stark's, Rickard Stark's and I don't know, from whom else's statues hands. The iron swords are there according to the legends to bind the vengeful spirits. Bran and Rickon has taken three or four swords with them (probably the missing ones), when they were hiding in the crypts and then fleeing from Winterfell. And Theon had an uncomfortable feeling seeing those statues without there swords. And then there were mysterious murders, no one knows, who committed them. The Freys suspected the Manderlys, Theon suspected Abel the Bard (aka Mance), but it was not the Manderlys and Mance and his spearwomen denied the murders either. I think, the ghosts of Winterfell rise if they don't feel Stark presence in Winterfell (which was the case, because Arya was a fake Arya, not a Stark) and those ghosts are seeking for vengeance on whom seized Winterfell from the Starks. I am wondering, if will they kill Lady Dustin or Roose Bolton in the books... Maybe not Roose Bolton, but I can definately see, that Brandon Stark's ghost will kill LAdy Dustin, who has ordered to stop and destroy Ned's remains before it could reach Winterfell...
So, it is not a wonder, that during 8000 years always the Starks have ruled Winterfell. I think, the Stark blood is needed ti keep Winterfell or the ghosts from the crypts will attack the intruders.
Anyway, those Starks (Motto: Winter is coming) are not waiting there down in the crypts without reason. They will have their role. I think, they will fight in the end against Winter, against the Night king.
We have a theory about the crypts but we're going to do a video on it...and we're about 99% sure Mance and his spearwives killed those people so sow unrest in the Bolton ranks before the battle
Do you have a theory as to why Ned decided to make a grave statue for Lyanna and put it in the crypts? There's obviously something fishy going on here.
yes...it's part of our theory on the crypts
When is this coming out? Same with where is Benjin Stark? George might need three more books to wrap this up!
@@mdarragh6805 only 2 more books are gonna come
Right or wrong, a fascinating breakdown. Tnx
Thank you so much
When I first watched this, I was like, "Yeah, there is some evidence, but it still seems like a bit of a stretch." But, like all your theories, it had a way of sneaking into my thoughts constantly, even at work or when I was going to bed, until I couldn't stop thinking through everything I know about the books and matching it up to your explanations. Now, I am at least 80% convinced on N+A=Jon and Val (though it's likely to go up since I'm finally 100% on N+A=J and have resigned myself to the fact that R+L=J makes no sense in the books).
Ok... I've been an R + L = J fan for years but I'll admit this is very interesting and rational (especially combined with your R+L = Aegon theory)
Why the hell would every lord in westoros know that Ned has a bastard daughter then some how know that she is living beyond the wall? This goes beyond conspiracy, you guys are just making fan fiction at this point.
what are you talking about? if that's your understanding of the theory, I'd suggest you watch it again because you're not even relatively close to understanding what we said...if you've never seen any of our videos that preceded this one it might be the issue
Why would no one question Ned coming home to Winterfell with a baby no one saw before he went off looking for his sister? #QueenVal #FuckJonSnow #YouKnowNothing
@@camrn_brian He was gone for years, they just saw him coming home from war with a baby that he said was his son. He was the Lord of Winterfell, best friends with the new King, and Warden of the North-- plus he is known as being highly honorable... not likely that anyone is going to call him a liar. The books reveal that several characters have inklings of Jon's parentage though, namely Tywin Lannister. I suggest that you watch/listen to these videos in the suggested order. The Order of the Green Hand has really done their due diligence on connecting the dots. I'm not sure all of their theories will end up panning out in the end but a lot of them are super believable and supported with tons of evidence from the text. I know I'm a Green Hand truther!
I am loving this series! I am new to the channel after listening to your podcast with Carmine and Preston. But you can count me as a new subscriber, keep up the great work.
thank you so much
I think Berric (7:02) may have taken an arrow to the knee after the hound took his sweet roll.
food for my brain, ty. what I appreciate the most, you don't speak down to people, you don't insult anyone for having different thoughts and ideas. as for your off the wall crazy theories from beyond left field, they are all backed by text and quotes. this college level compared to the many others out there. I am not knocking the others for doing what I can not, I'm just stating how much the both of you are more better. happy new years to you and everyone in the realm
Thank you so much...Happy New Year
Mormont's Raven is being controlled by Brynden Rivers. What is the Dragon Queens purpose? Slayer of lies? 3 mounts and treasons?
These theories are cool and entertaining but, in the long run, are a bit of a stretch.
I don't know, Dalla probably is also quite good looking and why wouldn't it be possible that Mance just had more chemistry with her based on personality.
You guys are blowing my mind with the theories. They're good and I am onboard with the whole scenario presented so far.
Thank you
thank you...that is exactly how we create our theories...we include every available piece of information on a topic and make sure none of it refutes what we are saying before we include any topic in one of our videos
You two should seriously consider writing something yourselves. With the ability ot peel apart the potential hidden stories in the background of ASOIAF shouldn't be too hard to bang out a few books of your own.
bulbafett5001 if they wrote their own stories every character would be people everyone believed dead long ago 😂
Dan N... I find your taking offense to my response humorous. You came on my channel and commented 4 times and insulted us all 4 times. All I did was fire back once. Then you come back and call us names. This isn't a safe space for little snowflakes such as yourself to lob insults at us where we aren't going to say anything back. We have put a lot of effort into making our comment section a place where the depths of the series are discussed. When someone comes into my comment section intent on trolling me or our fans they are treated accordingly and as you hopefully just learned, I'm not some little fantasy nerd who is going to shrink back into my shell because someone is picking on me. I'm going to hit them back even harder than they hit me and your feigning outrage has exactly zero effect on me. I don't give a crap about your feelings. Grow up and by the way, no one is ever going to take you seriously when the face you present to the world includes a sideways hat. Just a little tip for the future
What if Lyana gave birth to twins and Ned gave Jon's twin brother/sister to Ashara Dane for safe keeping which lead to her faking her death to raise the child in secret? That would make Jon, Jon's Twin and Daenerys the 3 heads of the dragon.
Close, but Val is Lyanna's daughter. The three heads are Dany, Aegon and Val.
@@J..P.. lmfao you slow
I have been saying that he has a twin sister since I first read the books!!!
hahaha us too. Its like a Luke Skywalker situation.
why would stannis want jon to marry his sister? so he knows val is neds daughter? but not jon? or he is down for incest?
Brilliant! Wow, you guys continue to astound me with ideas and presentation that leave me thinking, "how did I not see this before? " ... Please keep this coming!
Thank you so much...we're not stopping any time soon
And how would Stannis know?
You guys are amazing. Just binge watched all your videos. I am a big GOT/ASOIF fan, read everything at least twice but I find it truly amazing how you have constructed an alternate reality that is fully consistent with the books. It is actually more consistent with the books than the superficial understanding of the story I formerly had. Could GRRM be that devious, to have a story that works on three or more levels? 1) on the surface, a fantasy with dragons, 2) one level deeper with some secrets that can be uncovered by a normal level fan, like R+L=J, fake Aegon, Jamie is the Valonquar, or Clegane Bowl, Littlefinger is behind it all, and 3) on the deeper level that you have uncovered where all the characters past and present are important, in the present story, and best of all, some of the problems with the main story all go away.
HBO is operating on level 1) and 2) while GRRM is operating on level 3). The one thing that has always bothered me about R+L=J is "Why are they fighting at the Tower of Joy?" Ned Stark is probably the most trusted person to take care of Lyanna's baby. Robert's Rebellion is over, what are they fighting about? That the Tower of Joy never happened in the literal way portrayed by the books is something I never considered. It was only in Ned's dream?
The other theory I could never believe in is fake Aegon. The story is already way to complicated, it seems odd that GRRM would introduce a red herring so late in the story. But R+L=Aegon, I never dreamed of that. But it fits.
I think HBO is going to do a level 2) story, and the GRRM could do the same, but I am hoping he will pull off what you are suggesting in a level 3) story. I remember watching interviews where D&D told the story of GRRM testing them by asking who John Snow's mother was. I don't recall GRRM every said they were right. More like he smiled, they allowed them to produce his books into a series for HBO and D&D took that as they were right. I think GRRM was merely testing them to make sure they actually read his books. To come up with R+L=J on your own, you need to be really immersed in the story.
Looking forward to future videos.
Thank you so much...GRRM loves the intrigue...he always has a Littlefingeresque grin on his face when he coyly answers questions about the mysteries in his story...the time and attention he places into discretely weaving clues necessary to figuring out the story right into such natural sounding dialogue or thoughts POV characters have is unbelievable...but once you figure out the ways he hides pertinent information in plain sight, it gets easier to spot as you go through the books a second and third time, but on the first read, anyone would be lucky to pick up on even 1/3 of the stuff he put there to figure it out...it's like the world's biggest word puzzle...We have thought the same thing about the conversation with D&D. I read something recently where DB Weiss indicated that when they were asked the question of "who is jon's mother" that they gave a "shocking answer." Now if I remember correctly, GRRM said the first fan forums/theories sprang up in the late 90's, so by the time D&D were asked this question, a response of "Lyanna"would not be considered "shocking." Thanks so much for watching all of our videos and for taking the time to leave your comment. Making these videos is a LOT of work, and its so nice when we get positive feedback. It makes it all worth it. We try to respond to everyone's comments/questions, so please keep in touch, and thanks for subscribing. We really enjoy having dialogue with other ASOIAF fans.
jefftrike I agree with everything you said. Order of the greenhand is. more thoughtful than most with their conspiracy videos! just binge watched all of them twice.
Thank you Kc Cody
jefftrike You're right, they are great videos! I just binge watched all of them three times.
jefftrike I was wondering about the D&D interview as well. I think it could be possible that because of how they had to stream line the books into a TV show, that they decided to instead of introducing a crew of character's in season 5 and doing the young Griff story line, they decided to give Aegon's role in the story to Jon. (Hence the reveal that Lyanna named him Aegon in 7.7 rather than Aemon or Jaeharys like most fanfiction). It would be a way to simplify things down to fewer characters, and also please fans of R+L=J.That or you are right and GRRM didn't really care if they got everything right.
Hi I'm a big fan firstly of the books (1996) and then the series I'm loving your take on what is going on under the storyline of the books GRRM is such a indepth writer ie: history,back story, religion,that it would not surprise me that what you are saying is true. Regardless of whether that is true or not I'm hooked on your take on my favourite fantasy story of all time keep it coming as I'm hungry for more xxx
Thank you so much...we're working on a big collaborative video with Toni Teflon from TeflonTV on the children of the forest...it should be out later this week
Awesome video! You keep blowing my mind, re reading the books with your point of view in mind! Keep em coming, Great work!
Thank you so much...when you know what you're looking for the second time through, so many things practically jump off the page when you're reading it...plus, because you already know what's going to happen, you notice so many of the ways he cleverly places important information in the most boring chapters...it's like he deliberately puts you to sleep right before he drops a bomb on you
I just thought of something as I was re listening your videos. Could the white walkers be able to pass the wall because there is no Stark in Winterfell? The winged snake/dragon beast that Summer sees has always intrigued me and I could never settle strongly what is actually is. It is, however, evidently something magical. Could this winged beast that was kept locked in Winterfell, possibly by the Starks' presence, be somehow tied to the Others. They seem to have had giant ice spiders, big as hounds. Could this be connected somehow to the Starks not being at Winterfell. Just some food for thought.
Also as a side thought, could this dragon-like beast be the thing that was warming the waters beneath Winterfell's walls
You guys have once again blown me away. What I appreciate the most about you guys is how you let the text speak for itself; no preconceived notions, no stubborn dogma forcing you to go one way when all evidence laid out in the text points to something obviously different.
I just finished re-reading AGOT and just started ACOK (for the second time as well); they are LITTERED with hints that Jon is indeed Ned's son and the heir to Winterfell. I thank you guys for opening my eyes.
I'm now on the lookout for more hints of Jon and Val being twins ;-).
Thank you...we didn't set out to disprove R+L=J...the books did it for us...the more you re-read it the more obvious it is...especially when you get to a Storm of Swords...in a matter of chapters, you hear the Knight of the Laughing Tree story from Meera, and get to meet NED Dayne, who tells you about Ned and Ashara meeting and falling in love at Harrenhal...GRRM is a master of hiding clues in plain sight, so on the first read you don't even notice
I've long thought that R+L=J was wrong. Though there's a lot of evidence that says it's close, just the wrong R. If R was Robert, As supported in book one where Ned gets the book defining Robert's kids and the descriptions of dark hair (which shoots the J and Val twins theory) But if R was J's father, and Ned's sister made him promise to keep J safe, (as technically the Lanisters would be out to kill him if they knew, as heir to kings landing, as they did most of Roberts bastards since they're before Cercei's kids). There's nothing saying J's not Robert's kid. Even what we've seen of the tower of joy does not disprove this. J would have a better claim than Gendry. I like your Theories about Val though, and this is all still in play, as Ned was in Harranhal, but he was already married to Caitlyn by that point and honor above all was Ned. Question though, how would Val have gotten north of the wall?
So Val is NOT Dala's sister.... who was DALA then? They must have been together when Mance met Dala.... but obviously she can't be Val's ACTUAL sister.... still too many questions.
Good to hear my deepest suspicions spoken out loud.
Why can't Val be Val. WHYY does EVERYONE have to be someone else to you two???
there are a select few characters, all connected to each other, that we think are operating under aliases...that is a far cry from everyone is someone else
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand Haha I know I know. Heck, just bantering to banter. Even though I don't agree with most, I have been opened up to a few, and regardless if I agree or not, I still click on the next video and the next.
The one thing I can say is you two definitely do your research and back up your theories and each video is as entertaining as the last. Hope when the final 2 books come out I can be proven wrong, because even on the ones I disagree with, I'd be lying if I said it wouldn't be awesome if true. Look forward to future videos!!
You two are the most exciting ASOIAF theorists on TH-cam. Thanks for all you do and all the work you put in.
Thank you so much
If you're interested by this channel, you should take a look at Preston Jacobs
So somehow you all completely missed the whole plot and are making random ass shit up for views. They said she was part of the price to tie the wildlings to the north. Bot cause anyone concocted some crazy idea that she was a lost stark... tf?
Ok I love the theory I just have one question. If Mance/Arthur, Val/Allyria, and Jon are all blood, and Mance and Stannis and presumably Val know this, why on earth has no one told Jon? Giving family back to a man who thinks he's lost it all would seem to be what the Greenhand would be all about especially because if a man thinks he has something to come home to then he will fight all the harder for it. And besides should they be victorious is this "war to come" then the purpose of the Watch is done and it's men presumably released thus freeing Jon to take his rightful place in Winterfell. So it boils down to what I've already asked. Why has NO ONE told Jon?!?!
mtverv maybe just my answer i hear stories of men who go to war who cut ties with loved ones and don't speak to them until they return. Because they think knowing someone is at home takes there minds off the fight before.
Could that be your answers
mtverv....i hear you but think about what happens anyway.... jon makes rash decisions based on family and his brothers kill him.... Stannis and Mance are men grown twice Jons age. jon is still very much a boy. Think about the way stannis talks to jon in dance. He respects his position and leadership but still is super dismissive of him.. if they tell jon about his "true family" the chance of causing problems is massive. They are still in he preparing stages of the real war anyway and jon got himself killed regardless over "family vs duty".
thanks ruckle, that pretty much sums it up. :)
ruckle The Order of the Greenhand Yeah but it's difficult not to think that if he had the knowledge that others are keeping from him if he would make the same decisions. This is the man who had to learn you have to do things you'd rather not do (i.e. Killing Halfhand in order to be accepted into the wildlings to be a spy) in order not only to do what's right, but to stay alive. Arthur, Val, and whoever else also have to be very upset that their direct actions in the Pink Letter led to the death of a family member whether the person affected knew they were family or not. Yes telling Jon presents serious risk however not telling him resulted in his death. In the choice of risk of death versus certain death I'll choose risk any day...
We think it was likely a letter written to get him out of there before he died...the writing was on the wall...Alliser Thorne was going to kill Jon...Jon saw it in his eyes when Tyrion was still at the wall...Thorne looked at him with the eyes of an enemy...he was just waiting for an excuse/ opportunity and he took it when Jon correctly decided to bring the wildlings through the wall, but Alliser played on the other officers emotions and got them to follow him in finally killing the kid that he hated from the moment he saw him...likely because he looks exactly like Ned and if it weren't for Ned being so successful in the rebellion, he would have never been sent to the wall in the first place
This channel does have some really cool theories but didn’t Martin tell the runners of the show that Jon’s mother was Lyanna to get permission to do the show
The show is fan fiction.
Simply Amazing! Well Done. Truly new information and new analyses and not just rehashed face value information. I'm hooked. I can't wait to watch more videos. (Truly Impressed!!!)
Thank you ! ☺️ More coming soon
All I ask, is no incest be made a couple 😭 NO CLOSE RELATIONS
Wow you guys channel has grown really quickly. Good job!
thank you so much
"Val is Stark because eye color"
Is this video trying to say that;
A - Jon Snow is actually Ned's child, and not Rhaegar's?
B - That Allyria and Ashara are not sisters?
Because neither of those make sense.... I agree with aspects of this though....
+Carter Jamison yes to both, and without the context provided in our previous videos I completely understand why you think it doesn't make sense. Our videos, especially the first 15 or so build on one another
The Order of the Green Hand oh okay! Well I'll have to go check them out then!
So lyanna is not Jon’s mom I’ve only watched the shows
How can Allyria be the daughter of Ashara, when she is the younger sister of Ashara and Arthur? Clarification please.
she is way younger than Ashara and Arthur and whatever their older brother's name is...like 20+ years younger than Ashara (the youngest of the three)...she's Jon's age...we think they told everyone she was their little sister to bring as little attention to her as possible when she was young because they had just faked Arthur and Ashara's death and wouldn't want the added attention that Ashara having a daughter could bring...there's no intrigue in a younger sister being born, but the most beautiful woman in westeros killing herself and leaving behind a newborn daughter is the type of thing people remember longer
Gosh, you guys need to make some OtGH reads hate comments videos lol. So much vitriol. Love you guys, really. I'm reading again for the hundredth time and thanks to you guys my eyes are much more open to a great deal of things that I previously missed. I always thought, well, GRRM isn't really that intelligent, that every word is pretty much important. A lot of this stuff doesn't hold any important significance, he's just throwing in so much to enlarge his books and to keep his readers on a constant Easter egg hunt, and basically, he's not that good. My opinion has changed completely. He is better than the best. I am amazed at how many times I read the books and each time I came away viewing catelyn stark as a sympathetic character. After watching your catelyn SUCKS vids and reading again, I'm blown away by how horrible she is. Her witchcraft on Ned at the beginning, with maester luwins assistance, is a perfect example of how grrm implies the truth of what's happening instead of spelling it out. You must read so closely, and only then can you infer the truth of the events, if you're lucky. I never gave George enough credit as a writer to accept the depth and genius of this masterpiece. Until I stumbled onto you guys. Also, I would like to challenge you to a duel good ser, ala Littlefinger. That's the world's most enticing wench you've been graced with, and she just happens to be as fair as a Dayne of Starfall, which pales in comparison to her wonderful mind. I name you camel cunt, ser. Dammit, I can't help but like you too, for all this great insight. But I get so jealous it ain't right everytime I watch you. Isn't it just perfect that the woman that Littlefinger was madly obsessed with was Catelyn. It couldn't have been anyone else. Fair lady, I name you Queen of Love and Beauty. Be rid of this baseborn chull, he's neither landed nor wealthy, and shall never attain a lordship. He will betray you faster than a whore betrays Tyrion Lannister. Give me your hand and I shall pay your father your weight in yellow gold and rubies. In cinnamon, cloves, saffron, and spices rarer still. Bolts of silk and Myrish lace. I kid, I kid. But seriously.
Compelling ideas and arguments-my major hang-up is that the show has departed so far from these possible revelations. That is with no more Mance, no Val, no Ashara, and so on... I wonder if you would consider making a video with your predictions/speculation in how these theories could be reconciled with the direction the show has gone. Obviously I know that the show has taken a great many liberties-but-they also know the endgame and must keep that in mind as they decide who to keep, who to cut, and who to combine-right? What are your thoughts?
Thank you for taking the time to comment....we think the show can go in one of two directions from here...Option A) they continue to diverge into their own version of the story, and have likely been given license to do so by George, because they have no source material to go off of except who is still alive at the end and who wins...we also think it is incredibly likely that HBO and D&D have signed non-disclosure agreements forbidding them from revealing George's secrets, because GRRM and his publisher would have been crazy not to do so, given that they have one of the most highly anticipated books in my lifetime, probably as close to Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows as any book I can remember. Last season seemed to be a place-holder to me...they didn't really do anything except kill half of the cast...which gets us to Option B) they introduce Aegon's story-line first thing next season, following the WOW release, which I anticipate will be announced in the next few months...since the book will be out before the show, they would be able to seamlessly introduce him because everyone in fandom would have been talking about it for months previous to the season coming out...they did cast a few yet to be named characters that fit the description of Aegon's story-line (Connington, Lemore, Aegon) and it would almost be like we were being introduced to him through one of Cersei's POV chapters...we didn't really need his character for the story two seasons ago when Tyrion ends up with Jorah, so they skipped it until they could kill off half the cast to make room for such an epic surprise. We're hoping for option B
If she's Shiera why does she say she was essentially born into Asshai slavery and why doesn't she recognize Bloodraven when she sees him in a vision?
Good Bloodraven point! I personally subscribe to Gray Area's idea that she is Melanie, a child (possibly with the Green Sight) captured by slavers beyond the Wall - possibly at Hardhome - several hundred years ago. I also think Shiera Seastar's hidden identity is much likelier to be Quaithe (or Quaithe's secret identity is much likelier to be Shiera).
love you guys, hope you had a great holiday!
thank you for bringing new ideas to the series during the long night while we wait for WoW.
thanks Hailey! :)
I wonder if Jon and I will ever even meet in the books?
If Jon is brought back?
He still owes me perpetuity.
Hi
@@jonsnow6589 Be with me Jon, build a new world with me, it is our reason , ever since I was a little girl who couldn't count to twenty and you were a little boy born with a bastards name, we do it together, we break the wheel together.
🔥🔥🔥🐉🐲🐉🔥🔥🔥
Great info, thanks for all the time & effort you all put into this!
Thank you so much
really like this series. Always thought R+L =V+A(Fake) and N+A=Jon though. Val doesn't look like Jon and seems so Targaryen like in personality....
She looks like a blonde ashara in our opinion and I think she acts like a dornishwoman
But we considered what you suggested as a possibility too
Very sound cohesive theory, I like it! And Val is a very interesting character, indeed.
Thank you Sir Maurice of House Bey
I really love the speculation and it was a fun listen, but Ned (and judging by y’all’s other videos I’m sure you would agree)is a super awesome and honorable and NEVER thinks of a daughter of his not one time? If Stannis is knows this, how come not tell Jon all he knows as this would be easier in uniting wildlings
If Stannis is all about following the letter of the law, and he knows that Mance is Arthur Dayne, and Mance is married to and has a child with Dalla, wouldn't Stannis have to execute Arthur/Mance for breaking his Kingsguard vows?
Good point. In light of their theory, I don't think that Dalla is Mance's wife, and her child probably isn't Mance"s either. I could see her being Stannis' lover while on Dragonstone (after all, Stannis is only a man, who might have had a moment of weakness for whatever reason), with Mance doing Stannis a favor by spiriting this cumbersome pregnant woman away.
Marc Martial but now we have Mance being Arthur Dayne (with no direct textual reference), covering for Stannis' lover (for whom we have no direct textual evidence), shielding Stannis from having to take account of his illegitimate child (for which, once again, we have no direct textual evidence, not to mention the fact that Robert fathered a bastard on his marriage bed and Stannis never forgave him for that), all of which goes to point that it does not seem that Stannis follows the letter of the law all the time. On the other hand, even if all that were the case, Mance/Arthur would nonetheless have broken his vows a long time ago. Whatever he's been allegedly doing for Stannis, he did absolutely nothing related to the Kingsguard in the nearly 30 years that Robert was king. Are we to suppose that Stannis let that slip for the greater good, but was willing to risk Jon marrying his twin to ensure that Jon would always follow the letter of the law, even if Stannis himself (apparently) realized that sometimes you shouldn't? You see the inconsistency, right?
We believe Arthur/ Mance is living up to his vow as the Sword of the Morning...it is very similar to what Jaime says to Catelyn, about how knights swear so many vows that no matter what they do they are always forsaking one vow in order to fulfill another...each man needs to decide what is the right thing to do and choose to uphold that vow...Arthur decided that the fate of mankind was more important than his vow to be a ranger in the Night's Watch, and acted accordingly...and he didn't break any Kingsguard vows that I'm aware of
That is certainly interesting, but I find it hard to believe that Stannis would burn his own son, which Jon was convinced he was considering doing, which is why Jon pulled the baby swap with Gilly
The Order of the Green Hand Well, he'd have to have broken the vow to protect the king, since, you know, he wasn't there and stuff.
I mean, I think this theory is completely wrong and dumbfounded but it made for an interesting video nontheless
that's half of the fun...exploring the possibilities
I am really starting to believe that it is the children of the forest that are the true enemies.
David Coleman why think that
JungleJuice 4 They have no lost love for humanity, by all account, humans invaded Westeros
So when Ghost protects Sansa in the show (prediction), she has taken Val's arc?
hmm. interesting thought. I have only watched the show a handful of times. When does he protect her again?
The Order of the Green Hand I was offering a prediction. The leaks say Sansa and Ghost stay at Winterfell as Jon meets Dany at Dragonstone.
It could be...the show creators seem to enjoy giving plotlines to characters they do not belong to so it fits...every single thing Jon did last season, Stannis is doing or will do in the books
+Charles Bruce that very well could be!
Euron is Val.
But her hair doesn't match either of her supposed parents. Black + black =/= honey.
we meet two other Daynes that are blondes (Ned and Gerold)
Which means that at least one of their parents was a blond(e). Ashara, on the other hand, was a brunette. That alone disproves your theory. She can't be related to Jon through the Lyanna/Rhaegar pairing either because again, no honey coloured hair.
She could still be Allyria though. Assuming that Allyria is actually Ashara's sister as she was said to be.
first of all, two dark haired parents can have a blonde child if one of them is a carrier...this is also a fantasy book, and as such, George flat out said that he felt no need to adhere to genetics, which is why every single Baratheon has had black hair for hundreds of years with zero exceptions...there's even an authors annotation on that very passage in AGOT to tell people that
Good point, I always thought the "All Baratheon children will ALWAYS have black hair" was a little amusing. Ned was pulling a "medieval CSI genetics" research- it's clever, but it's absurd to think that ALL people in a family line will have black hair. There would almost certainly be a few with brown, red, even dirty blonde hair at some point. But GRRM set the rules for ASOIAF, and I can happily suspend disbelief so long as the story remains true to the established rules.
"Children are the true enemy" funny line.
😂😂😂
The more I watch these videos, and given current show events, the more I hope you're right. Considering what the show has done...House Stark is dead in the show. Arya = Faceless man, no longer a Stark. Bran = 3ER, No longer a Stark. Rickon = dead. Robb = dead. Sansa = Bolton widow. Jon = Targaryen. No more Starks who can legally carry on the Stark name and legacy. :(
so true
However there can be a matrilineal marriage for Sansa. The child would keep the Stark name.
a bit too far... you should love conspiracy theories like base 51...
Why would Stannis, a man who believes the law is made of iron not pudding, attach marrying her to a lordship of Winterfell if she wasn't a Stark? His entire claim to the throne is based on the laws of inheritance and succession
I think it's because Stannis thinks she's a wildling "princess" which maybe somehow presents his ignorance of wildling customs. He wanted to marry her to Jon to gain the trust of wildlings by marrying Jon into "royalty". That's just how I interpreted it. I don't support this theory much too, I think it's too wild but I believe some of it could be correct. Great analysis though! And also, her hair is blonde and in the asoiaf world, the kids only take after the parents. That's one great roadblock from this theory, I believe. Anyways, keep up the good work! Nice videos.✌️😁
i randomly found this video,, very nicely done.
+That Guy Thank you
Thank you so much
I love you so much Baby. Do you still love me? I need to know this is really real.
First off. I love it. All of it. You guys are doing real work here and also taking on some "cemented" theories which, sadly requires bravery in this fandom.
I have watched all your a stuff and I don't recall you addressing a few things so I will ask them here. If you have them planned for future episodes and can't answer yet, I understand.
Who do you think wrote the pink letter?
If Stannis understands that the real war is against The Children, then why would he risk so much to free Winterfell? (I say this knowing an answer that works for me but I am interested I your thoughts)
If stannis doesn't thing he is AA does he recognize that jon/Dany/ageon or some other combo might be?
Is The Giantsbabne shagging Mormonts?
Stay good,
Evan
1) Stannis.
2) He wants to unite the North, which will never happen under the Boltons who played a roll in the Red Wedding where all of the Houses of the North suffered losses, and he knows that there must be a Stark in Winterfell. We'll expand on that in one of our next few videos
3) it seems likely...more to come
You folks can get a bit tin foily sometimes but I always enjoy your videos. Ive seen almost all of them now.
Sorry but I have to disagree with most of your theories.
You're allowed to do that. Is there a particular reason for this disagreement?
melisandre ≠ Shiera Seastar
Allyria being Jon's twin was always my guess been chirping it for years
Could you sense it when you met her?
The Order of the Green Hand I'll be honest at first Allyria being his twin came to me based on GRRM comparing Jon to a Star Wars event plus her ageneral matches up and like you guys mentioned Belicheck being chosen. The Val thing I am torn on it was the way the 2 names came together that made me think of it. ValAllyria just seemed like a hint of some kind.
thought it sort of matched up with Luke's initial attraction to Laya for the same reason...the Val part is largely due to her eye color (and the fact that they change seemingly based on her mood like Ned's) and the fact that Winterfell was attached to marrying her, and Stannis is a man who believes strongly in the laws of succession
The Order of the Green Hand the only part I disagree on is Stannis unless Mance has let him in on the secret. I felt Val was Princess by succession sort of like Cersei after all the kids die. Stannis is trying to forget the alliance with this marriage his wife is also trying to do this. I love the Kings Guard stuff it is a great read I love it. my only concern is that a lot of loyalist who would know them were sent to the wall but maybe this is why they are at the Shadow Tower who knows.
I don't think many people would know their faces...if any of them had ever seen them before it was most likely at a distance and they would have been armored and wearing helms...and check out part 3 of the Wars to Come if you are interested in the possible connection we found between Mance and Stannis...it's too complex to put it in the comment section
Val having blonde hair is the biggest red flag on this theory. The books really emphasize the importance of hair color in determining someone’s true parentage. If Val is really Ned & Ashara’s daughter and Jon’s twin, she should have the same or similar hair color as Jon.
blonde hair is prevalent in House Dayne
I just have one question. If Stannis knows Jon&Val are siblings.. Why would he allow them to Wed?? We know how Stannis feels about incest!! That’s his whole premise on him being the rightful King
@@christophergibson9337 because their theory is "mind f*cking" loyalty tests.