Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Mysteries, Myths, and Motives | Valyrians are First Men
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Mysteries, Myths, and Motives, Part 6: Valyrians are First Men.
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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I think the weirwood reflected Ned's face not because he was performing magic, as such, like using the weirwood to communicate. But rather because he was (unknowingly) performing a blood sacrifice to the weirwood. Out of tradition, Ned (and previous lords of Winterfell) always cleaned the blood off his sword in the pool next to the weirwood. This was probably always meant to be a blood sacrifice, but the meaning was forgotten through the ages and is now only followed out of tradition. Thoughts?
so I liked your videos of the show but I LOVE and missed these videos the most! keep them coming!
thank you...we will
THE best ASOIAF TH-camrs out there. Keep up the good work!
+Pedro Rivera thank you Pedro
So if I think I understand enough after watching it once to see that you believe that the Valaryians were in Westeros during the first long night or atleast had learned from the Children before then which would also make sense why Dragonglass and Valaryian Steal are the only two blades that can kill the white walkers. I'm not too sure how what you both just stated draws a parallel but I'm sure that somehow it does. What do you think?
I must not have been listening to the first 30 seconds lol
The Old Gods connection just blew my mind!
Now I feel dumb for never connecting the Old Gods of the First men. With the Gods of Valyria
This makes so much sense and explains where the children of the forest got the dragon glass to create the first white Walker on the show and why valerian steal can kill white walkers. Valerians and white walkers seem to be connected, and the connection seems to be the magic of the children of the forest. I thought that maybe the children of the forest had been in Essos by crossing the land bridge and had a hand in "creating" the Valarians. There is no reason the children of the forest were only in westeros. But the Valarians being first men also explains the connection. If the Night King is a green seer in the show, he may be watching what Bran is doing at the same time Bran is watching him. The three eyed raven and the night king both came from the children of the forest. Maybe they taught the first men how to "spy" through the weirwood trees and recruited the first three eyed raven in the first battle against the white walkers. This would explain why the night king sees the three eyed raven as an enemy, without the night king actually being Bran. He stood before Bloodraven like he knew him before he killed him even though he had just been in that tree the whole time.
:15 Bran The Builder looks like he's selling cologne in a magazine....
😂
UHH i love you videos but i really wana see the ashara stark video ive watted months for it
Mark Hayes The order of the Green hand has a great video about Ned and Ashara Dane that you may enjoy. "Ned's bastards " is the title. QOT.🌹
Although I think you could be right with the Valyrians coming to westeros before the first men and even leading them to westeros. After that it began to get a lot less believable. The ending with Ned Stark being able to use the tree to communicate with other's made no sense though. If that was truly the case why did he need ravens?
He would still use ravens because most people can't use a weirwood to communicate
Garth Greenhand is the night king.... IDK just throwing it out there lol.
This is an interesting theory and some of it seems very plausible and is definitely well researched. Your claim that the app in some way proves that the old gods of Valyria are the same as the old gods of the First Men though is fairly weak. The fact that clicking 'old gods' takes you to the "Old Gods" page, isn't proof in itself, and the very first sentence says that the old gods are nameless. If the old gods of Valyria were called Vhagar, Meraxes and Balerion (among others), and the First Men's gods were nameless then they're not the same. Do you have a theory as to why the appearance of the First Men and the Valyrians are so different as well? I think you guys have a great argument for Valyrians being there, and some of the houses (Hightower and Dayne) do have those features, but how do you account for the lack of blond hair and purple eyes in the wildlings and the north?
The app link is only part of why we think the gods are the same. They're also called the old gods and I don't see how the valyrians giving them names precludes them from being the same. We think that the first men and valyrians are descendants of the royal family of the great empire of the dawn. Garth seems much older so is likely one of the first emperors son and the valyrians were mostly from the amethyst empress. Same family. Different lines. All first men
Cool video but I have some issues:
1. The Targaryens were in exile living in Dragonstone in the years leading up to the Doom.
2. The Valyrians didn't even exist until after the Long Night. How could they have possibly colonized Westeros if they didn't exist?
3. The fact that a hyperlink for the "old gods" points to the old gods of the CotF is NOT evidence they are the same! It easily could just be a mistake in the app. There's no textual evidence that they are the same, especially in light of the fact the gods of the CotF have no names (can't name a dragon after a god with no name).
4. George has stated in interviews that no one has ever successfully crossed the Sunset Sea.
That being said, your video is on the right track. I wrote an essay about this last year...maybe you'll enjoy this: redd.it/4ti5rb
Who is Archmaester Fomas or is it just is he Sam of? I don't have TWOIAF.
they don't give any other information about him...he seems to be a maester from back in the day though
The Order of the Green Hand The show has been hunting heavily that we will be getting a storyline that is reminiscent of a jazz motif. We just had the battle for Casterly Rock which was an adaption of The Whispering Wood. Alleras is clearly Sarella so is it possible that Archmaester Fomas is a version of Sam (Sam of ) as he seems to have the same way of looking at and questioning history.
House Dayne of the far south House Stark of the far north.
Something that could be related to this theory is the fact that the Daynes of Starfall appear to share some Valyrian features but their history originates far back in Westeros.
And their purple eyes would link them to the Amethyst Emperor 👌🏼
Civilizations rose and fell on Planetos. The Maze builders, the builders of the 5 Forts, the ruins in Southros. We may never know what GRRM dreamed up as the back story. Unless he writes a Silmarillion type book.
jay446944 I wish he will write more books about the universe to introduce us to mysteries of Sothoryos and Essos
I heard since he's not finished writign the winds of winter he'll write a book about the religions of the world
It Will be the most amazing book some author Ever made
He's a genius. He draws so much from real history which makes it all too believable. Like the Assyrian cities once great are ghosts and ruins will looked at just a few hundred years after the empires downfall!
Oh, it's hidden in plain sight.
I thought the valyarians were the product of some kind of breeding program using magic, from what I understand the whole blood of the dragon thing is very literal in asofai. Something else I’ve noticed is a lot of reptile related plot devices, reptile men, greyscale and the strange cultural practices. I think they all developed as a result of magic experiments performed on slaves( possibly the first men so wargs) the Valyrian dragonlords being their most successful attempt and greyscale being a bi product. It would explain a lot about the Valyrians if they where part dragon and where part human
Biproduct
@Publicslum 。 oh come on you knew what they meant
All this history and people wonder why he takes so long to write the books....
Right? I always tell people I rather wait ten years for an amazing book than wait a year for a crappy book.
D&D rushed GOT
GRRM should NOT rush ASOIAF
But most of the background should already be established, so the next book should take _less_ time. And we are both wrong, Martin is bored with the books and cant motivate himself to finish them.
@@ChrisisisB
Idc what anyone says about how complicated it is, ten years is fkn absurd.
Sorry plans, green hand just released a video
+Brawley K hahahahaa epic!
Brawley K I totally felt the same way 😂
My husband hates when the videos are uploaded right before he goes to work. He has to wait all night knowing its there.
Be honest, you have no plans.
i never write comments, never saw a point of doing it. but your videos are so well researched, so well constructed, it is blatantly obvious that you put your hearts and souls into this, and if you ever wondered if anyone noticed it........i DO. keep it up.
Thank you so much. We will certainly try
Wish D&D had the same amount of pride in their written work....if we can even call season 8 "writing".....
it's possible that the andal "knight" is simply an updated and a more specific version of the older first men "knight"
irl knights, like housecarls, began as boy servants, then retainers/bodyguards, till the term eventually become to mean a horse riding military dude (and that they had armor on)
The first men do still exist, and they don’t seem to have knights, who are very much linked with the faith of the seven, which explains why the north and iron islands only have one or two knights, hailing from houses that worship the faith like manderly, who are andal
There are first men in the south too. Most of the reach are first men houses and trace their origins to Garth Greenhand. A lot of the storm lands too and trace their origins to Durran Godsgrief, even house Tarth who consider their house Andal have origins with Galladon of morne, who was a first man from the age of heroes, yet the he is considered the perfect knight. About half the river lands and westerlands are first men, Tully are first men, Crakehall, and even the Lannisters have questionable origins that are likely more firstman than not . Even the vale has first men houses like Royce and Redfort, and the vale is the most dominated of the seven kingdoms by Andal houses.
So it's a big hodge podge, and some evidence that knights existed in the south before the Andals, but there is also a precedent in real life for a dominant culture group to revise the history of a conquered the foreign populous to suit their own needs. Which is likely what happened with Galladon. Who was probably just a Firstman from the age of heroes who was dedicated to an actual Maid rather than the aspect of the seven called "the Maid", and was not actually a knight at all. He just upheld all the values romantically considered "knightly" and "Chivalrous", and his story got conveniently appropriated and edited. This would also Rhyme with his ancestors, Dunk and Brienne, two individuals who were not knighted whilst behaving as a knight should when actual knights were not.
They say Andals invented knighthood and yet the brothers of the nights watch have basically the same oaths and principles
Another interesting theory video. Although I agree with your premise that the Citadel's theories are either wrong or deliberately covering things up, I disagree with the exact point where the truth diverges from what the maesters think. For instance, the maesters think anything "advanced" must have been built by the Valyrians, because the Valyrians are the only advanced civilization that the maesters are aware of. However, the similarities with Seastone Chair, the Five Forts, and some other examples (some strange oily black stone in Qohor, etc.) make it seem unlikely that that Valyrians built all of it. Could have been some other powerful ancient civ -- the Ghis, Yiti, Quarth -- or maybe some other race -- COTF or someone else.
There are lots of other possible explanations for the similarities you mention (long distance communications, so-and-so remembers). AND you have a huge obstacle to this theory which is that the descendants of the First Men do not look Valyrian, which you did not mention or address.
Anyway, love your videos and all the thought and effort you put into, even I don't 100% buy it.
Oh Wow! The idea right there at the end of the video is great! Ned and others using the Weirwoods in similar fashion as glass candles! Makes perfect sense, and now seems so obvious... it was right there in front of us the whole time! See Order of the Green Hand ... this is why you guys really are my favorite! Y'all bring mind blowing ideas that make so much sense! Thank you for another great video!
Thank you Clint
Something that's been bugging me for a while. If the art of forging Valyrian steel is lost then how do the Maesters forge their links out of it, and where do they get the steel they use to do it? It seems that even people who can reliable reforge or work it are rare, but any Maester can learn it at the Citadel?
Could they be hiding not only the means to make it but holding huge amounts of it as well?
You can rework/reshape the material, but the art of making the actual thing is lost.
The smith who made Ice into Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail said as much.
Lone Reaper but that's the point. Where do they get the steel they use? Are they smelting down daggers? Are there just blocks of it that they have or were given to forge those links? Do they have the missing swords and are using those? And it's possible to reforge but it's hard to rework, it's a big deal how rare it is to even be able to rework it but any Maester can learn to do it?
If they have enough steel and know how to forge chain links they could have enough for spear heads, arrow heads, or daggers. To me it just doesn't add up.
We know the Maesters are hiding some knowledge such as what they know about the Long Night and magic. In the books especially.
Valyrian steel rings are given to maesters who learn the higher mysteries, I think maester Lewin(?) told Brandon only 1 out of 10 maesters bother to with it. It shouldn't be a problem if the number of total maesters is small enough
Meimou if it's one in ten, or even one in a hundred, that'd be at least sevral hundred if not a thousand+ Maesters with those links. Smelt those down and you've got a hundred or more spear heads. That's the start of an army. And Maesters aren't given links, they forge them, it's like Jedi building a saber. It's the final part of the type of training they are doing. They do the training for the area of study and then forge the link out of the metal themselves (or maybe reforge it) so they need the metal. Which begs the question of where they are getting it from even if they are just reforming it?
See it makes sense to me that they would have a ton of rings for maesters already forged. they already said you can't reforge from small to large but rather large to small. That's why the made 2 swords from neds sword.
17:50 I believe the title simply refers to the Taergaeryan's time between the destruction of Valyria and the completion of their conquest, and Thomax just got a little pretentious with his title. The fact that they fled Valyria and were unable to ever return definitely fits the definition of 'exile'. They weren't exiled by their people, but rather by the disaster that made their home uninhabitable. Their apotheosis, then, is their ascension to the Iron Throne. After all, it was said that the Taergaryans answered to no gods, which would put them on the level of gods themselves, at least in the eyes of men.
Also, a problem you didn't address is that the Valyrians were pretty much all white haired and violet-eyed, yet I don't believe even a single one of the free folk is described as such. And we know that those traits can carry on through the generations and despite interbreeding thanks to the Volantenes who still bear those features.
we don't think every line from the Great Empire of the Dawn look exactly alike...the ones who ended up becoming Valyrians were largely descendants from the Amythest Empress's line, but Garth seems to be much older...maybe the Pearl Emperor or maybe even one of the 5000 kids the God-on-Earth probably had...that would make sense...like father like son...anyways, Garth and the Amethyst Empress would be related, but distantly...like distant cousins...but all First Men
The Order of the Green Hand
Could silver hair and violet eyes become gold hair with blue eyes? It made me think of some kind of interbreeding between the COTF and valeryia
@Monique Gebeline What, or I guess who, is / are COTF?
bailando74
Children of the Forest
There are first men who are described with valyrian features, the daynes are famous for them
Aenar the Exile, father of Daenys the Dreamer
Excellent as always! Intelligent and informative. I love the fact that you guys are talking TO us, unlike some other channels who seem like they are talking DOWN TO us.
Thank you so much
I would say that the Dothraki also remember, in their way. “It is known”
And just when I thought my Sunday couldn't get any better...
+Johnathan Kinne aww! So glad you're having a good day and we could make it better!
Okay, ending it with two examples of the hart trees looking like Ned and Manderly...
Dang you're good.
We do what we can
I been waiting for a new video that wasn't a review. No offense to the reviews I just seen way to many from others and I like these video better
+James Maddox I've been dying to make this! Brans coming this week!
James Maddox
review vidz = quick $
The Order of the Green Hand Bran definitely has a big overall role to play & to me, it's the most mysterious.
+James Maddox -- hahah! I said pretty much the same thing!!! Anyone wanna join me in the live chats to protest this madness???
+James Maddox - maybe you'd like In Deep Geek, though he's doing reviews right now as well, which, at this point, are moot. But he's got his own way, a singular one never repeated by any other Got/Song channel. The video about what the hell IS in the Winterfell crypts that everyone is fussing about, or "the real theon greyjoy" are really worth your time, even if you don't care for the thoughtful reviews...
Thought provoking. If true, then both Dany and Jon are both "Fire & Ice", which makes more sense than Dany being fire but Jon being both fire and ice. (I know you disagree with R + L = J, which would flip it and make Dany fire & ice [Targaryen + first men] and Jon just ice [Stark]). Your videos are definitely most interesting.
thank you so much...we actually think Aegon is the combo of Ice and Fire
Bran is ice, dany is fire, Jon is ice and fire.
The Ice and Fire motif goes far beyond simply two people being Ice and Fire. Lyanna and Rhaegar are Ice and Fire, among many others. They came before Dany and Jon in the timeline. It's a story of balance, and how it perpetually shifts, and is in conflict. Good vs evil, logic vs magic, north vs south, dragon glass vs the icy weapons of the Others, the contrast between Others and Targaryens, etc... It goes very deep.
ice are others not Starks and fire are dragons both keep the balance. Jon is not ice nor fire
i love your videos. thank you guys for all the time and effort put in. easily my favorite asoiaf channel
thank you for watching...how's Wally doing?
"That's not a knife..." Nice one.
So on point as always. Can we start talking about the Daynes being the first tamers of dragons in the west yet? Maybe ever? Regardless, beautiful work and analysis. Keep on keeping on. Yada yada. PEACE😃
I heard this theory that Daynes are from Valyria before it was called that or form and once they were dragons all over the world.
Maybe I missed it, but I would add that members of Houses Hightower and Dayne often have Valyrian features such as silvery hair or purple eyes, and I think the Hightowers at least (maybe both?) claim to be descendants of the First Men. This would seem to support your theory, perhaps?
both the Hightowers and the Daynes claim First Men descent...not sure about Hightower eyes, but the Daynes definitely have purple eyed members of their family
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand I Wonder if the Hightowers sometimes show signs of Valyria simply came from them having a child on Saera Targaryen(the one that became Alicent Hightower) before she moved to Essos?
The Fortress of oldtown was built by the deep ones. Its a different design from the buildings of Yi ti
possible...it seems like a rudimentary/early form of Valyrian construction too though
It will be massively disappointing if GRRM fails to connect these fabulous dots in his forthcoming books!!
hahaha aw! thank you.
Interesting, but how would we reconcile the Valyrians looking uber-Aryan in stark contrast to the rest of the people in Westeros?
they are like distant cousins...it seems to me that Garth Greenhand is much older than them, so he would likely be descended from one of the first emperors, and the Valyrians the Amethyst Empress...I know we haven't fully explained why we think that yet but it's coming...so they're related, but from different lines, but all First Men
The theory does mesh well with House Dayne looking Valyrian, and Lynesse Hightower apparently looked just like Dany.
the guy in this video,he sounds like Richard Dreyfuss. Is that you Richard? Would love him to read out a few lines out of stand by me.
Unfortunately I'm not Richard. I wish I was
Oh could you fit in one of the lines from stand by me that relates to G.O.T. in one of you videos?
I'll see what I can do
The Order of the Green Hand Good man.
But the Manderlys came to the North only 1000 years ago, they go with the Seven instead of the Old Gods, and even you guys will have a problem to trace their line back to wargs etc. like you managed with the Starks. So while Wyman Manderly has a "Weirwood phone" in his Godswood, he's not able to use it. :-D
+Doktor Cool they're a very old first men family
Most families have some influx from the First Men. Btw. that's something I'm wondering about anyway: after 10 generations, "Stark blood" will be thinned to 1/1000th due to marriage with non-Starks. Maybe less thinned since the non-Stark wife has some Stark ancestor 3 or 4 generations ago, so let's say it's just 1/100th after 20 generations. Even the relatively new (to the North) Manderlys are around for more than 30 generations. What could be special in the Stark genes that isn't also in the gene pool of about every house in the North which ever married a Stark (or a descendant of a Stark)? Is this something in the Y chromosome so female Starks marrying somebody don't transfer it to their kids? But then Jon shouldn't have it...
This would explain how first men houses have Valerian steel
Guys, the Targaryen exile obviously refers to their self-chosen exile on Dragonstone a few years before the Doom. Compared to the Freehold, a rock in the sea is definitely a downstep.
exile is defined as being forced to leave and barred from returning...I don't really know if one can exile themselves from someplace...I feel like that is just called moving, but I can't deny it is possible that the Maester who wrote that book took some poetic license with the title
Danaerys the Dreamer’s father is the one that chose to move the family from Valaeria to dragonstone. He is known as Aenar the exile. Exile can be defined as self imposed....
What about house Royce? Their house words are "We remember"? 15:23. And we started hearing about them right in the prologue of the first book. A house with too many heirs?
Interesting theory...like the parallels of "..... Remembers" and the stones made with dragon fire. Love your videos. They make fans think.
Great video! I've always thought it was interesting too that the free folk call people with redhair 'special' because they're kissed by fire. The only people I know who are associated with fire are valyrians. So it always made me wonder why would people in the far north say it's special to be kissed by fire?
I liked this video before I even watched it! You guys are great!
+Dana Densmore thank you!
The Order of the Green Hand every one of your videos are so insightful and y'all definitely do your homework! Thank you! Keep the amazing work up!
I feel like that may have sped up the entire thing by a matter of 9-10 days...the only part of it I can think of where using the weirwoods to communicate might have saved time would have been the Karstark's arrival in Winterfell...the rest of it was just a matter of taking the distances traveled and how fast George said people can travel in his world, and extrapolating out how long it would take to go from point A to point B over and over and over again
The physical appearance of house Dayne could be evidence of this
I just started reading Dying of the Light. You are spot on correct about this theory. You really ought to read that book and prepare to have your minds blown. Wolfheim, Ironjade, Banshees. Planetos's name is Worlorn. You are so very, very correct.
Always happy to see new videos from you as you provide interesting thought provoking concepts. And endings never disappoint in casually dropping yet another amazing idea.
well we were really disappointed that this video grew so much that we had to cut Bran the Builder completely out of it because we got to twenty three minutes and still hadn't mentioned him, so we decided to leave everyone with a little bonus nugget that was originally going to be in the next video to try to make it up to people who have been waiting
Nah. The thing about skinchanging and warging is that it's clear-cut telepathy, while the Valyrian connection to dragons is clearly much more elemental and primal, and if its not, you need special magical objects to force dragons to obey you. So why aren't these objects used by regular people to warg regular animals.
And also I highly doubt that Westeros and Yi Ti are connected via the Sunset Sea. The Long Night invasion of both continents is compelling evidence, but George modeled this world after the real one. Westeros is clearly analogous of Europe, the Narrow Sea is the Mediterranean, and Essos is Asia, meanwhile Sothoryos is Africa. It stands to reason that if GRRM modeled this after the real world, then it only makes sense that beyond the Sunset sea, which is analogous of the Atlantic ocean there at least two other continents that represent North and South America. If Westeros and Essos are connected, I believe that the answer is northeast instead of northwest. Just keep going north along the Shivering sea and stay just off the coast of Westeros and you might end up in Essos. After all, along the east coast of Westeros is where Mance Rayder said that ship from Asshai was found.
And I also disagree with your statement of the Valyrians being the First Men, while I do believe it's possible for some of the First men to be predecessors of the Valyrians, I don't believe they were the Valyrians as we know them now. And after thousands of years of genetic isolation, the two groups have become completely different.
Also I disagree that the fortress on Battle Isle was built by the Valyrians, it could have been, but not necessarily. There are examples of strange black stone all over the world, some pre-dating the valyrians by thousands of years. It's just as possible that the Children built the fortress as part of their elemental magic to fight the First Men. I mean, you did say that their gods were that of wind and water, and STONE, so yeah.
The children don't really build anything. And how would you explain the fact that targaryens can control their dragons without spells or magic horns? The only other option is skinchanging
True, it probably wasn't the Children. But that doesn't mean it was the Valyrians, in fact, it was probably members of the Great Empire of the Dawn. And just like the Weirwood net and the glass candles are two different sorts of magic that allow you to see through time and space, warging and Valyrian blood bonding are two different sorts of controlling animals. After all, the Valyrians or Targaryens never give point of view references whenever they flew their dragons. They never acted like they were seeing through their dragon's eyes, or living in their skins. Instead they talked about riding their dragons like a regular person rides a horse.
And I'm of the view that the Valyrians and the First Men were two completely different groups. Only people descended from the First Men are wargs. Because humans simply do not have the natural ability on their own to warg, all their warging powers comes from Children. The First Men intermingled with the Children for several thousand years. And those humans carried Children warging genes down through their descendents all the way to the modern day. And since the Valyrians and First Men have little to no connection, there's no reason the Valyrians would ever have warging powers.
StarWarFan
The members of the great empire would become valyrians after leaving westeros, they state that theory with evidence in another video of theirs.
Why would they leave Westeros? Why would they leave their gods?
The Order of the Green Hand
Valyrians gave me a Viking vibe
15:20 you guys missed another group that remembers. The words of House Royce literally say "We remember".
+Justin Time we thought about including that but they're First Men so we decided it would be redundant
I wanted to say that
This is like Warhammer 40k Inquisition level of searchong for heresy.
Exile to Apotheosis. Leaving the Freehold and exiling themselves to Dragonstone, to becoming emperors of an entire continent (Westeros).
You guys and Preston Jacobs do the best ASOIF videos, love your theories!
Thank you!
lee Roberts why don’t you like Preston?
I've often wondered where the first men originate from. I've also wondered why the information wasn't readily available...
+Nexishadow I feel like he purposely withholds information about things he's going to build mysteries around
Good vid, the only thing I don't fully buy is at the end:
Wyman Manderly does NOT follows the Old Gods. He has "The Shield of the Faith" as one of his hereditary titles.
It is good to remember that the Manderlys are not native northerners but rather people from the Reach who had to go into exile and were accepted by the Kings of Winter as vassals.
Besides, there is not a single mention of Wyman Manderly actually visiting the godswood.
the Manderlys are an ancient first men family
Wolf's Den has a Weirwood tree with Wyman's face on it which means he does pray there.
Doesn't Wyman manderly, whos house is originally from the Reach, still pray to the Seven though? Aren't they the only house in the North who does?
house royce's words (a notably first men house ) we remember
If you can safely assume that Valerian records of their history was better kept than that of Westeros you can guess that King Aegon and his sisters probably knew that history. The fact that they left Westeros also makes sense with the odd seasons and The Battle for the Dawn you can understand if they found a place to live with better weather conditions they may, or some may, have gone there to establish their Empire. The location is much more desirable as well for trade. So 2 separate kingdoms are born. That of Valeria and that that became the 7 Kingdoms of Westeros. Aegon might also have known about the eventual return of The Long Night. Their family did have seers in it. One at least is named but who can say there weren't others. In knowing this but not when exactly, Aegon would know of the necessity of combining The 7 Kingdoms into 1 and their need of dragons. He really couldn't tell anyone why he did what he did because who would believe him? He'd have been the 1st Mad King if he had. So they had to bide their time and wait. Not knowing that future generations might screw up his carefully laid plans.
I agree unlike rhagar he understood how you had to do things
One issue I have is that the Targaryen exile is clearly referring to Aenar the Exile, father of Danaerys the Dreamer, who moved from the Freehold to Dragonstone. Thus the title of the book would mean the history from Aenar to Aegon.
This video has done the impossible. It made me a fan of the Valyrians again. I was always put off by their harsh history of domination and brutal slavery. But the way they are connected to the children and first men really makes me see them in a whole new way
the FREEhold do not enslave
This is not Valyria, it's the Empire of the Dawn. Valyrians and First Men have the same ancestors.
Maybe the way you were thinking of them before was how the Maestar of the citdal and faith want you to think
Intresting..I found ur channel a couple month ago..uz are the best ive found. .totally agree with ur jon snow parents video. .but the kingsgaurd theory was awsome..the best
thanks so much!
Braavos was a freehold city too, the faceless men now make some more sense
Maybe the Targarians' "Exile" is them leaving the freehold, and "apotheosis" is them conquering Westeros?
i thought the kingsguard/knighthood was an andal thing
also, targaryens weren't necessarily exiled by valyria, but they were living 'in exile' on dragonstone for a few years before the doom. they were the laughing stock of the dragonlords who didn't believe the visions of the doom
There are examples of knights and kingsguard members from long before the Andals arrival. Mostly coming from the legends of the Reach
Once again another brilliantly constructed video with great information. The idea seems very plausible and I for one am a believer that the First men and the Valyrians do share some kind of connection or ancestry. Brilliant once again!
What about the fact that the Hightower resembles a Aircraft tower with light perhaps this was to guide the Dragonlords on their Dragons as they were nearing Oldtown
we tend to view the Hightower as the worlds largest lighthouse for their port, but I can't say your view of what it might have originally been thousands of years ago is any less likely than ours
The old gods link linking to the northern old gods is most likely due to the links not being placed by hand.
So, theory: There's an age factor to when people in the North are taught the secrets of weirwoods, and how to see through them. I'd say it makes sense that people are taught at 16, the age of adulthood. It'd explain how Ned was able to do it, and how it seems Robb didn't know how to do it.
Even I was wondering that. Why on earth would Robb send ravens if his father could talk using Weirwoods? Your theory might be right.
However, time of Long Night, arrival of First Men in Westeros and genealogy of House Stark and others contradict each other. Everyone agrees that First Men invaded Westeros 12000 years ago and battled Children for 2000 years straight, before eventually having a pact and thus ending Dawn Age and beginning the Age of Heroes. 2000 years into the Age of Heroes, Long Night occurs, which is 8000 years before the main story. Further 2000 years into the future and 6000 years before main story, Andals come and displace culture of First Men while Valyrians are overrunning the western Essos.
Question is that who are the people who settled 12000 years ago. If Garth Greenhand is the grandfather of Brandon the Builder, he should have arrived on Westeros 8000 years ago as there is a 4000 year gap between Garth and First Men invasion.
There is one more group (westerosi of first man descent) House Royce: We Remember.
True but it seemed like it would have been a little redundant because they’re an ancient First Men House
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand I'm kind of obsessed 'round house Royce. They must be important to the story as by Royce's eyes we see the first Other, they are blood related with Starks, had bronze armour covered in runes(magical?) and lost their Valyrian steel sword defending dragons.
Love your videos. They're always so much more fun than the show.
thank you!
Been re watching everything you guys. But not in order just by pick and
choose. Well the last one I watched was about Bran and His dreams. What
if that dream or vision or whatever it was, where he flew North and
North and North and saw the dragons of old, way up there. Was NOT in our
book time period BUT THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of year in the past when
Westoros was covered in dragons and the Valerians DID rule over the
NORTH in Union with the children. If Valirions are being placed in the
SAME sentence as Giants. IT HAS to mean something. Which would come
right back to. Those damn ANDELS lied again and changed history so it
would be unknown how advanced the "First men" were and how much "At
Peace" They were with the children. Which again would come down
to................ The long night happened BECAUSE of the Andels NOT the
first men. Okay you know me. Hope that all made sense and was not just
a jumble of words.
Don't get it 'twisted' I appreciate your video, it's informative. But you keep referring to the 'HEBREW' children as "Jews". Jews are comprised of the two(2) (remaining) TRIBES of Benjamin & Judah. Moses did not lead the "JEWS" ANYWHERE. He lead the 12 tribes of the "HEBREW children" out of Egypt.
Been rewatching everything you guys. But not in order just by pick and choose. Well the last one I watched was about Bran and His dreams. What if that dream or vision or whatever it was, where he flew North and North and North and saw the dragons of old, way up there. Was NOT in our book time period BUT THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of year in the past when Westoros was covered in dragons and the Valerians DID rule over the NORTH in Union with the children. If Valirions are being placed in the SAME sentence as Giants. IT HAS to mean something. Which would come right back to. Those damn ANDELS lied again and changed history so it would be unknow how advanced the "First men" were and how much "At Peace" They were with the children. Which again would come down to................ The long night happened BECAUSE of the Andels NOT the first men. Okay you know me. Hope that all made sense and was not just a jumble of words.
As usual, fantastically mind blown! I missed this! Thank you guys! 💓
I always thought the valyrian's were basically the elves of this world. They are kind of similar to say the Blood Elves (or High Elves before their fall) of the Warcraft franchise.
I like this.
I've theorized that the reason for the Valyrian's expansion into Westeros, but not beyond Dragonstone, was because their main goal/purpose was to mine obsidian in preparation for the wars to come. This better explains Tyrion's statement on the matter when he questions why the Valyrians never ventured West knowing that is where the wealth was.
Although I agree with them being First Men I must announce my skepticism about using the "Old Gods" hyperlink in the App as a source of evidence. The reason I am skeptical is because this hyperlink could have been assigned by the app software from recognizing a common word or title and just did it automatically. Thats just really flimsy evidence to me.
But youre whole point I do agree with. What Im curious about is who these Andals are. I just always assumed all men came from Esos originally much like the commonly held belief about our own history.
Love your intelligent analysis and theorizing. Well scripted and narrated as always. You both rock!
+Lucid Horizon thank you!
lucid horizon - what exactly IS a nerd these days and why are there people here, on a Song/GoT channel who use it as an insult *Granny admits to confusion*
This video is definitely my new favorite video of yours. The extensive research and fantastic delivery is damn great! Keep em coming!
Thank you so much
The Targaryens were exiles, because they fled Valyria, 8 years before the Doom.
SWEET!!!! I have been waiting for another in this set of videos. Man I love you guys. Been with you from pretty much day one. Today you knocked another one out of the park. Thanks again you guys.
+thebovineavenger I know! You're the best! So honored to have you here!
Also and I'm sorry to keep commenting. You guys are great. Keep up your awesome work. And the man's voice is like listening to a real documentary's.
Thank you. It comes from years of talking entirely too much
Holy shit! Mind BLOWN! I would love to see this be true, but IDK, seems like you guys and IdeasOfIceAndFire come up w/some pretty in depth theories, that I wonder if GRRM was really that detailed and cognitive of all of these hidden ideas for what's in this story to have done all this! No one else talks about these things.
thank you...we think the books take this long to write because of the depth
After watching a ton of GOT videos, yours bring depth and easy insight. smooth delivery! Thanks a million!!!!
Unbelievably cool!
+Artur Fonseca thank you
Very pleased by the quality of the content. Kudos to you.
Do you guys think you might make a timeline of events from the Dawn Age all the way to A Game of Thrones ?
we might...its difficult because there are aspects of the timeline that get all backwards when you try to put it together
There’s some serious Jon snow/Aragorn, first men/numenorian vibes in asoif
4:15 George Martin confirmed NOT in tune with the truth. The earth is FLAT. SOOO Done with these books. They're just based off of skyrim anyway. #FLATEARTHFANTASYWEEBS #sweatyflatearthneckbeards #M'Lady #Fedora
You’re done with the ASOIAF yet you’re on TH-cam watching ASOIAF theory videos?
Tom Bombadil + Johnny Appleseed = Garth Greenhand
YESSSSSSSSS!!!! Ive been waiting for these!!!!! Woo HOO!!!
Also I have been saying for some time now that Emperor Bloodstone is extremely important in ASOIAF. Also not clear that he was killed and the fact that he was incredibly powerful with magic makes me question if he ever died
The arm of Dorne could also represent the Siberian land bridge, washed away by the massive flood coming in from the melting of the ice cap at the younger dryas impact event.
I always saw a connection between the blood sacrifices to weirwoods and Ned cleaning Ice under the tree before the black pool
Just discovered your channel and I have to say I'm super impressed by this video
Thank you
i was under the impression that the shoadowbinders of asshai taught the valyrians. can someone tell me if im crazy or not??
Are you seriously using a wikia linking error as evidence that the Old Gods of the First men and the Old Gods of Valyria are the same?
No. We mentioned George’s official app among other things
Well done OotGH!! Just spoke to a friend earlier today about what some of the big reveals coming toward end of story may be, and this was among the ideas/theories I spoke about to her. The question of what the words of House Dayne may be when Martin reveals them is also a topic that came up online yesterday-- so to me that's related as well to Valyrian-First Men idea. I love all the real world ancient lore/myths and hidden/alternative history Martin references-- my favorite aspect of ASOIAF. :)
Amazing theory, very logical as well when you think about it, something similar to Vikings visiting America long before anyone else, just because it was ther. Now add that to the world of ASOIAF and this is what you get. Greag work!
The Manderly's are originally from the Reach and are followers of the 7 so no.
The Manderlys are an ancient First Men family. Yes they were originally from the Reach but they were run out of the Reach within a few generations of the Seven taking root