What they don't want you to know about Electric Cars
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มิ.ย. 2024
- Following on from his internet-breaking Dacia Spring video, Rich delves into another cheap and cheerful EV - and in doing so, unearths a (potential) global EV conspiracy. Sort of.
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By the time I can afford an electric car the goverment will have changed it's fuel tax model to make it unaffordable again!
Yep. And tax this and that on recharge stations whether it be at home or at service station. They'll find a way
As usual there are more questions than answers particularly around batteries cost and range, not to mention whether charging sources are fossil or renewable, oh ..... and taxation of course. Maybe we are all destined to stay in one locale and be unable to travel.
Lol me here in Victoria 🇦🇺
Within a few years an ev will be cheaper to purchase than an internal combustion car.
Exactly, I don't need self driving, I don't need robotic chef making me sushi while I drive, I dont need 9001 cameras to monitor my car, I need a steering wheel, bunch of wheels and a roof over my head and maybe 500km range because I love range, but 300km would probably do as well.
You seem to be like me in the fact that you "enjoy" driving.
However, your life situation does not seem to be like me.
I would love my car to be have FSD capabilities so that it can take the kids to school in the morning, come back and take me to work, come back and take my wife to her shopping and other chores, then go pick up the kids from school and finally come to pick me up from work in the evening.
That would mean I need just one car for the entire family routine that works throughout the day instead of two cars that just stand and occupy parking space for 20 to 23 hours a day.
Most important, I would not have to just drive around in circles 6times a day to find a parking space.
I agree. I would gladly trade in all those distracting features and connectivity for a bigger battery!
I agree. I don’t live in NYC or LA.
in Eu you need 50000 euro for that
Freezing cold Rainy / Snowy Night with Heater Lights and Wipers on really digs into Range too. Fast Charging Also dramatically reduces the Lifespan of Batteries, just like it does with Smartphones and Tablets. They are not Cheap, and are Heavily Polluting to mine and manufacture the Battery components, so much so, that they are almost twice as bad for the Envirinment as Diesel Powered Vehivles. What happens to recharging Ability, when the Wind isn't Blowing and the Sun isn't Shining. Where is the Power Generating Capacity going to come from ? Living Off Grid, I had a period between September and the following April, with heavy overcast, and too low windspeeds to get any useful Power Generation, and my Batteries hit the limit of non damaging discharge in just over 7 days. I could have gone another 3 days in an emergency, but to have seriously damaged Batteries. Thankfully I had a backup Diesel generator to run things plus recharge the Batteries. That's why I was headed to the Caribbean on my Liveaboard Sailing boat for outsidenof Hurricane season. reliable sunshine, steady 25 knot Winds, and a Towed Generator for when under Sail. It also had a 22 hp inboard Diesel Engine. Our Latitude and Longitude isn't really suitable for Reliable Wind or Solar Power Sadly.
"That work 4 or 5 times a season" I have to admit that made chuckle. 😁
A brand new EV with a decent range (150mi) under 10k would revolutionize the entire auto market - would also spur on the infrastructure needed for EV adoption
I get that for most commuters 150 miles of range is sufficient, but there is a huge difference between what customers NEED and WANT. Realistically the range needs to be closer to that of ICE (350-450 miles) for most people to switch to an EV
Build in China almost made me puke. Why could they not build the car in Europe or India. I don't want to support China if I can avoid it so thank you for inform us about that. Guess I could look closer on Renault Zoe
@@Noah_E Tastes and Opinions change with the winds.
@ Not sure having something built in India makes it any better... But then what the hell does an Indian know about the country :D
Where do we get all the electricity though?
No excuse for overpriced EV's other than money grabbing.
Why do pharmaceuticals cost so much more in the US than everywhere else? What kind of a stronghold does the oil industry have in these countries?
Start and EV company then
Isn’t it a supply issue? Keep the price high until supply matches potential demand. There simple isn’t enough lithium produced to meet the potential demand yet!
@@philipcourtenay3638 Unlike the baffoon jason crandall states, it's not a question of "Start and (lol) EV company then". Other countries have unions/organisations that keep pharma companies at check and can leverage pharma for drugs that are not outlandishly priced. If you're alone or have no leverage, these companies can nickel and dime you.
"I can just cut through the Suez Canal."
Not right now you can't!
Yes he can ;)
In România, we have from the State 10000€ for electric cars and if you have an old car there is still 1500€... and at the end we pay 8000€ for a Spring. Tomorrow I will go and preorder a Spring and I will receive it in September.
Good for you 👍 but Yeah, we have 7k in Germany but in the end I can buy an up/citygo/mii, a twingo or an Zoe ze40(with the battery lease) for about the same. And the fiat 500e is not far of either (all in basemodel trim) so I don't get the pricing of the spring, it's not a specifically good price point to be in.
@@arnejungclaus7957 Fiat 500e is 3 times more expensive, u talk nonsense 🤦♂️
@@arnejungclaus7957 curious what "about the same" means for a CitiGo. Here there's almost a €5000 difference from a Spring to CitiGo which is more than 50% over the price of Spring (Romania).
It is actually 7700 euros if you trade in an old car.
@@arnejungclaus7957 Zoe and fiat are smaller and more expensive.
I suspect there are some important reasons for those price differences (safety requirements, tariffs, government subsidies, etc.), but your point is very well taken. Most of the EV channels on YT are busy falling over themselves to praise the Lucid or the latest toy for the rich. We need innovation in EVs for the masses.
Agree. I also assume many countries tax credits are keeping the prices high since people will be subtracting that from the listed price.
This channel is so underrated!
Maybe, but still... 1 in 5 deaths aren't from CO2 emissions, it's from other fossil fuel pollutions. The amount of CO2 is wayyy higher than 420 ppm in a normal office. 5000 ppm for a workspace where you spend 8 hours per day is the normal limit.
The Suez Channel? Yeah it's pretty good.
Fyi , I own a Nexon EV in India , the lowest variant costs 16,000 Euros in India , and the top variant about 18,000. Also the mileage is not 312km , as advertised , but about 200km . It has the specs of a Mini , and costs as much . Regarding the Kwid EV , it's not available yet .
Closer to 20,000 Euros ,
Do you know if the Kwid EV will be produced in India ? As far as I know the Dacia Spring is only LHD. An Indian Kwid EV would allow the Spring to be sold in UK/Ireland, like the Duster was in 2013 (before the RHD production started in Europe)
It's because of safety. Airbags, moose test suspension, impact protection, glass quality, etc.
Also, there are two sides of the road. The right side, which we drive on, and the wrong side.
"Make the electrical cars cheaper." ...
Thank you :-).
"This is a Renault, a company who makes Formula 1 cars which work...4 or 5 times a season"
Yes a choked on my coffee listening to that! Thank you Rich
I have long maintained that EVs are £8-10k more expensive than the equivalent ICE model. Sure some of the price differential is down to manufacturing costs, but I believe most of the price difference is car manufacturers increasing profit margins, they know that the total cost of ownership is less for an EV by (a completely coincidental £8-10k) and they want to capture some of it
The cost of ownership can be as a low as 2p mile. Public charge points can end up as expensive as fossil.
200+% of UK fuel cost is tax. That lost revenue will be recovered hy the HMRC through road pricing. At some point electric suppliers will premium price supply to ration demand. Both of those consequences will be regressive hitting those least able to pay.
Yes, but also off buying anything from the EU!
I feel in the developed world car manufacturers are protecting sales of their ICE cars by forcing pricing of EV's higher. The impact of factory lines and the supply chain would be huge if suddenly overnight EV's were the same price as ICE vehicles.
I just wanted to say ... and it will come with big shifts in their manufacturing that will like decrease the necessity for workers or at least shift some as the plants are remodelled for EVs. I guess the public outcry would be horrendous
100%
You are right and manufacturers like Tesla needs to again heat up the game by making an affordable car, this will push other manufacturers to catch up.
Manufacturers respond to market demands. It's as simple as that. The majority of people don't yet want, can afford or have the charging facilities for EVs. Millions of people live in apartments or houses with no off street parking. They still make no financial sense if you do low mileages because they'll never pay for themselves and they're out of the question for people like me who tow a caravan with an SUV . EVs simply aren't suitable for carrying heavy oayloads. Some people seem to live in some kind of ideological fantasy world where everything is so simplistic. I've done the sums for a second vehicle but it's a no brsiner. Simply not viable. Also people conveniently overlook the huge environmental damage caused by rare earth minerals in third world countries where lives are cheap but it's ok because it's far away and we don't see it. so much cognitive dissonance at play with this stuff.
@@paul756uk2 agree 100%
As you know the Dacia spring is produced by the Dongfeng/ Nissan/Renault consortium in China. In Romania the Dacia Spring Comfort + is priced at around 18.500,= Euro. However subsidized in the Rabla + program with 10.00,0= Euro, Nett cost will be around 9000, Euro.
Since the carmakers must reduce their emissions for their total program with a large percentage or will be fined by the EU the subsidy is misused to avoid this fine to Dacia ... In general subsidy is another word for "too high a price". In Europe we are used to paying lots of money for a car and to my opinion the carmakers do their best to preserve this price level and are helped by governments to achieve this. I'm in the market for a reasonable priced EV at a fair price but don't like the idea the subsidy on my purchase will go directly into the pockets of the supplier acting as a sales company in stead of a fabricator...
The Duster is built in Europe.
The i assume safety regulations are different in China. The Spring in Europe probably has more airbags and other pasive and active safety systems.
This has been my assumption too, airbags, driver assistance, increased crash protection all add cost to the car. Also, i has understand the cost in France will be 12000 after subsidies (17000 before) not quite the 20,000 price tag stated in video.
Yes, adding safety features add up.
Also, the battery chemistry and charger might be different in these cars even if the cars all look alike.
In Europe the car may have a heat pump but in India it may not..
And don't forget about optional fast charging and maybe the regenerative breaking.
@@art322 the price in romania with subsidise and old car trade in will be 7300 euro for the cheapest model
People are more expendable in China and they can sell organs at a really good price.
Back in the 90's I also felt the urgency to drive an electric car . At the time there was conversion kits for gas cars and one could easily build something that would get 30 miles per charge . This was good enough for me to use everyday and I soon got rid of my second backup gas car . Over the last 25 years I watch the cars get better and better but still the excuse is never good enough . They either cost too much or they don't go far enough no matter how cheap they are or how far they can go . My u tube channel is a how to convert your gas car to electric.
"I want my.... I want my.... I want my cheap EV...."
I have just picked myself up off the floor from hysterics...
Just brilliant... :-)
Haha - I thought it was too silly (even by my standards!) to put in there, but talked myself out of cutting it. So I'm glad you enjoyed it!
"This is a proper bit of kit. This is a Renault. This is the company that makes formula one cars work four or five times a season." = You are a Master of subtle sublime humor. I am going to be smiling for a long time Thank you.
One of the reasons why Renault changed its F1 name to Alpine.
An electric car may cost 2p/mile at present but, once there are many more on the road, the government will just put the high tax that is presently on petrol/diesel onto our electricity bills.
Enjoy our cheap electricity while we can.
Yup. Though they will start by jacking up carbon price.
Their cost per mile figures need looking into though...
I live in Iceland and here the electricity costs about 10 pence for a kWh but petrol is close to 1,50 £
I do own a calculator and therefore I bought a Tesla model 3. The payments are less than the cost of ownership for my old car. Even with an 80% loan on the tesla and no debt on the old car whatsoever.
👍👍👍
UK electric is around 15p Kwh, petrol, £ 1.30 litre (about $8 US per gallon)
for the UK viewers - this is nice timing..
Brillient film matey. Incredibly clear and entertaining. Will be watching all your films. Keep going and i hope the manufacturers are taking note. Thank you.
Very interesting recaps , keep up your efforts good work to the point and well presented 👍👍👏👏👍👏👍👍👏
It is simple to understand why the prices are different. The cars look the same, have the same engine interiro etc.,but they are different. Spring has a reinforced body, airbags, automatic brake sistem. The kze model does not have this safety features.
The problem is not the car companies, the problem is the high taxes on cars in Europe. Have a look at how heavely cars are taxed in Denmark for example.
The costs of homolugation and bringing the car up to international safety and NCAP standards will be substantial, but probably only 1/2 the difference. Happy with my MG ZS EV, £22k for the top spec.
The best value-for-money car on the market right now for my money!
This video has a good point. Keep an eye on India for right hand drive EV's. The MG ZS EV in India gets a bigger range. The MG 5 for Europe is getting a better range. We need to keep an eye on EV's globally to make sure we don't get short changed. I hope your MG is great and than its future replacement is even better. The car industry has a history of spoon feeding improvement. Advances in technology should mean change should come in spades.
Great video and I really important point you have made. Unfortunately this equation has just got worse given current prices - as of today the plug-in grant drops to £2.5k and only for cars that are less than £35k. There are some good cars that start below that but once you add 'extras' that would be standard on a similar ICE car, you are over £35k. I have been looking at Skoda Enyaq - take the base model, change to metallic colour and add basic assisted drive pack (blind spot detection and adaptive cruise) and you are over the £35k (and missing rear camera, heated seats, keyless entry). We are being taken for fools. I do by the way, do the math and work our long term return of lower running costs. To replace my two year old 3 series BMW with the Enyaq at current fuel prices would mean it would be seven years before I paid back the capital to buy the car and thus start to make a saving. I am actually happy to pay for the environmental benefit but not that much!
But your BMW 3 series will depreciate faster than the EV. I just (regretfully) sold my 2 year old Kona EV and it had lost 10%. Had I spent the same money on a BMW 3 series, I reckon the depreciation would be at least double that. I do think that manufactures will respond to the change in government rules, maybe including a batter spec to keep the car within the £35k threshold. In any event, I’d rather have a £35k EV, than a £35k (pretty much base model?) 3 Series.
@@matpat2636 I would rather have anything other than a BMW.
@@matpat2636 but the BMW looks nicer. Depreciation gives us a chance to finally be able to afford these cars
@@johndoyle4723 what's wrong with the i3?
I totally agree with you soon as you can buy a reasonable priced small family EV then I could afford one
I totally agree with you, as soon as I can afford a reasonably priced small family EV I will buy one.
I agree. I want an affordable EV. Give me max. 15.000 Euro and min. 300 km of range, and I'm in.
You're in luck, because that's exactly what the Spring will be. And what the CITIgo-e already is.
The elephant in the room… preventing the wholesale switch to EV ownership… in a nutshell! Well said!
I agree with you. In the UK we also need to increase the amount of charging points and make the cost of charging electric cars at these points a lot more transparent.
In early 2022 Nissan Australia are going to release the all new 62 kWh LEAF. I nearly bought a second hand one from Japan last year. They haven't even heard of the Nissan Ariya. Add another $10,000 to European prices and that is what we get in Australia 5 years latter. No government subsides and they are talking about adding a special EV tax.
Correct - Left hand drive means you pass your adversary on the right hand side, allowing you to draw your musket, sword, pistol, joust, knife etc with you right hand, which is the majority of folks best hand
Price is important, but charging infrastructure for 32 million cars is a major barrier too.
I know that it's an old video, but since the video was published the price of shipping a container from China to Europe increased about 300-400%, yet car prices grew 15-30% that pretty much answers the question where the extra price goes (the shipping market is too volatile). P.S. I also know that most cars are usually shipped on car transporters not in containers, but the costs would be pretty much the same if not more.
In Oz its worse. Cheap is the MG SUV at $42k (Australian). I wonder about battery supply - how many of these EVs are being delivered and sold in India?? I imagine that if there ever is a reasonably priced RV, one will put it on order and wait, wait.
That's because Scott Morrison love oil taxes.
The Tata Nexon EV is built in India. The Kwid- EV hasnt been launched yet in the Indian market. The price is speculation at this point.
Its starting price in France is €16,990 (approx. £14,550 at current exchange rate). That's before any grants so with the 3k UK grant it would be £11,550. Cheap enough?
£12 050. Govt is decreasing the grant to £2.5k as of today
I think I just might stick with my 21 year old VW diesel.
Keep it tuned and running for 3 more years and you'll be able to buy a great used EV.
@@crhu319 Indeed, but I hope for a few more years than 3!
I can't afford a new car of any description, so I will have to keep driving my diesel until it costs too much in repairs to keep going.
25 years ago 1000's of Brits imported UK-spec cars from Europe because we were being ripped off by huge differences in pricing for exactly the same car. I even ordered a Peugeot made in Coventry and collected it from a Belgium dealership and saved £1000's. I kid you not, it was hilarious. Today's disparity is with Indian and Chinese pricing, but it's not exactly a pleasant day out across the Channel to collect a new car. Too bad, so the unfairness is unlikely to change for the next 20+ years.
We get sandbagged in Australia for everything.. iTunes cost 1.69 per song compared to the US $0.69
Australians get ripped-off by the government on taxes. We also get robbed on the costs of products too. They are inflated.
There are many many more dumb humans than smart ones, hence the screwed up governments we elect.
Really enjoyed your comments. I wanted an EV, but as you say it's expensive. But I worked out that if spend £160 on petrol alone per month (not including servicing tax and repairs) then it's only a bit more to lease a car. So I bit the bullet and leased one.
The Dacia Spring costs in Germany 2000€ more than in France. Thats probably because the Federal EV bonus in Germany is higher than that of France. So it seems Renault/Dacia cashes in on the expense of the German tax payers.
The mechanism Germany puts in place is a bit odd as it asks the manufacturer to participate to the discount. If there was not this, a German buyer would go to France and buy the Spring ex-vat, and then pay german Vat + get their incentive back.
Wow! What a brilliant video!!! You have voiced what thousands have been thinking for a long time. There must be an opportunity for an entrepreneur to start shipping the Tata and Renault into the UK? They could easily make a few thousand pounds on each vehicle and still sell them cheaply.
If only I had two or three million to set up the business........!
Anyway, thanks for another thought-provoking video.
They don't want us to know, that we know that they know 😉
I noticed that in France the Spring Comfort Plus with CCS is 19k Euro. After rebates dacia.fr says that you can get one for about €2500 + €109/month on 48 month rental. It’s about €160/month rental. I think that is pretty good until purchase prices come down. Wish we could get it in 🇬🇧
Rich, genuinely interested in seeing your ‘Where can I charge my Kwid in Kabul?’ episode... I’m happy to buy you a one-way ticket to India. You can sort the rest!
They have electricity in Afghanistan you know. I'm guessing they leave it plugged into the wall or only really use the car for longer journeys.
Very interesting video. One other thing that gets overlooked regarding electric vehicles is that they're fine if you have a driveway where you can get the car off road to charge it Not easy at all if you don't. Mass EV ownership can't happen with a few charging points at Sainsbury's (other supermarket charging points are available) and motorway service areas. I've yet to see any plans for the massive new infrastructure for on-street charging points, let alone the commencement of its creation.. I won't say anything here about the resources for materials for all the new batteries and extra fuel for power stations that mass EV ownership will require.
When are we going to hear your take on the Kia e Niro ? I've asked before but there seems to be Radio Silence on your part regarding the Kia .
That isn't intentional radio silence! We're just a small team and there are so many new electric cars to get through. But we'll get there.
Left hand side of the road driving. The ones you didn't mention. South Africa, Namibia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Malaysia, Laos, Indonesia, Singapore, Borneo, Sarawak, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Mozambique (all south eastern African nations up to about Ethiopia), Pakistan. There are also a few in South America, Antigua and Belize I believe as well as Caribbean countries.
Malta in the E.U. drives like japan and the UK too....
I wanted an EV but went for a Vauxhall ampera /chevy volt due to price. Managed to get 40 miles electric out of it the other day. Owned it for about 18 months, 99% of the time I never use petrol. As a range extended ev the maintenance is almost as good as a full ev, the petrol engine is hardly used. It is disappointing on the odd long journey when the petrol engine kicks in.
I think the Dacia has been improved in crash protection and other factors, same as you explained with the small asian EV in the end. A second factor are the government subsidies which are about 9000€ in a lot of europe.
So I would say the price is pretty ok.
You missed a big point in this video regarding the Dacia Spring's price point. It currently is selling for 9000 euros after government subsidies in Romania. The sticker price is 18000 euros and the maximum government rebate is 50% up to a max of 9000. The reason for its high price in Europe is because it is maximizing how much money it can squeeze from rebates and consumers. The cost for consumers isn't very different from what it is in India.
But, Quid EV hasn't even began selling here in India yet. But, Tata Nexon EV is a good one. It's there for only a year and has Euro Cap 5 star rating. And we get it at a price beginning at 140000 Laks INR or 13500 GBP. I think the better route is for Tata to start building the Nexon at their JLR factory in the UK.
New to this channel. Hi all. Model T Ford but electric is what we need. You hit the nail on the head. 👍
So if Ford just built the Fiesta carriagework with the interior, safety bags, etc... And just installed a Westinghouse motor, battery pack, cooling pack, electric climate module.... Then you have the Model T of BEVs. Should cost the same as a UK Fiesta since Ford buys the ICE motor and transmission anyway. The Fiesta/Rio/Elantra/Corolla/Civic or Focus/Kia/Hyundai/Camry/Accord of the 2013 to 2019 are the same bodies anyway. Different taillights and grills, but basically all the same.
@@STho205 fantastic reply. I was more thinking of a low cost reliable, easy to fix, all round do anything car.
Just one correction. The rates of Kwid in India is less as its manufactured within India. If a car is imported in India, the duty imposed is 100% of the value of the car. Maybe that's the reason it's a bit reasonable here. The tesla model 3 for instance is around 30000 Euros in the US, however since it's imported in India the price goes up to 60000 euros.
So in Germany you can actually get about 9000€ back, when you buy an electric car. Dacia is really calculating with that, because the price in Germany an France are differing almost exactly the amount that the bonus by the government differs. In the end they both cost about 12.000€ but the price on paper is just way higher in Germany
Ever thought about the fact that there are security tests, certifications and regional variants of the before mentioned? All need to be passed for a company to sell one unit at all.
And yes 10k is not a lot with a Tesla Plaid+, but for 8k car it makes it suddenly cost double as much.
It is not just CO2 in fact in the UK the Nitrogen pollution from diesel vehicles is our biggest issue and there is no Trees and bushes offset with diesel like with petrol.
My family ordered the new dacia spring. After goverment aid for EVbuyers which will be a staggering 9.4 k and the additional price reduction we get from scrapping our oldest car (1.3k), the final price is a total of......(drumroll) 7.9 k euros. Which funnilly enough matches the indian price. Ofc we have 2 other normal cars that will complement it but oh well its a start.
Need loads more charging stations as well. Wonder how long the battery will last and how much will it cost for a new one. Cheap mileage will be significantly increased by the cost of replacement.
In the UK there are already more charging stations than petrol stations with more built every day. What does need to happen is building them in places where people can only park on the street so more can make the switch.
Part of the reason they are selling them at a higher price is that they will not be profitable to the dealership in the long term from maintenance visits. Now maintenance intervals are already a lot larger in Europe than they are in the US. I live in the US but I remember my dad telling me quite a few years ago about the 20,000 mile maintenance intervals on his new skoda. In the US they still sell oil that needs changing every 3000 miles.
It is notable that the pole star 2 is relatively cheap in the US. It is barely priced above the Ford mustang Mach e. Volvo have for a long time offered free service on their cars for at least three years. They have always been kind of expensive but I guess they were not trying to make their money on return service visits. now we have a Ford priced at a Volvo level because they won't be making any money on servicing it.
when a vehicle is not powered on the basis of the controlled detonation of highly explosive materials, it just isn't going to go wrong that much. The complexity of fixing it when it does go wrong is also greatly reduced. From a labor perspective a battery swap or an inverter swap isn't going to justify thousands of dollars in mechanics labor bills.
They are protecting their dealerships with mandated checkups every year. People want to keep their 8 year battery warranty, so they have to go to those check ups. They aren't as expensive as ice maintenance, but it's still some money for them. The work is also much less, so they need less mechanics and can cut cost on wages. Selling cars is much better earnings per hour than maintenance.
Tata car is an Indian made car and not Chinese, just to correct:) Btw regarding the video, you are completely right. I am an Indian living in Canada and seeing this video just made me surprised. I think manufacturers should start making "affordable electric cars" and not BEVs that cost 40,000 or 30,000 which is seriously not affordable, I would rather buy a gas-powered one that is so much cheaper, this applies to used and new gas-powered cars. India and China is doing a great job at that and manufacturers should start making affordable cars. We have enough expensive electric cars already, hope Tesla does this if other legacy manufacturers don't.
I'm not sure if India or China have any government schemes to trade in their old poluting cars but in EU there are loads of countries that have such schemes. In Romania, where Dacia is based in Mioveni, the Gov is offering a 10k voucher+ 1500€ extra towords a new full electric car if you trade in a 8 years old car or older. It brings the price of the Spring at about 8k all together in Romania and the waiting list is huge now, with deliveries planed fir September. Thjs is a money making schemes for Renault . Same car as in chine that cost 10k, but in EU si almost double.
THANKS FOR POSTING! SMART ANALYSES! you hit the nail on the had mate! the front-up price IS the reason why most of us can't change to EVs. throw the gadgets out of the cars (although that's where the premium pricing is justified with and the profits are made for the manufacturers...) and give us normal range usable evs. to all those who need the self driving gadgets: if you can't park your own car or keep it in the lane how did you get your drivers licence..? and one last thing... today there's an almost total lack of interest to deliver electric utility vehicles like cars with box, pickup etc on the back. as a. architect tradesman can say: i won't drive a kia or tesla sedan to work with a boot full of tools... car companies! if you are sooo very sustainable, BETTER YOURSELVES!!!
Nice video, btw the Tata Nexon EV is made in India, not China. We still don’t have the Renault Kwid electric here, just the ICE, again made in India.
Totally true, superb video
Think the reason of higher cost is compensation. I remember when before my country introduced 4000€ with every new e car the VW eUP cost 21k € and after compensation was introduced - starting price for the same car - 24k €.
It's a difficult time for car companies. No other industry has ever invested so much money, not knowing the future and whether it's sustainable. Apart from Tesla, they all make big profits selling cars running on oil which is becoming ever-cheaper to get out of the ground. Until we have long-term vision on a fixed battery technology, it's difficult to get investment in large-scale mines to produce the chosen raw materials long-term. With so many companies focussing their market on SUVs it's amazing to see this happen, around a sector of the market, which is I'm afraid, extremely unexciting.
You've stumbled across capitalism. Sellers don't just tally up what they've spent and then tack on X percent. They charge as much as the traffic will bear. And people will pay more for the same item in some markets than in others. In some cases, in some markets, they DO sell at a loss, for example if they figure it will pay off long-term because their costs will eventually come down or the market will eventually tolerate higher prices once they get a taste of the item or what have you.
Manufacturers don't generally just drop prices because they should. Not even for the good of mankind. Occasionally they do, like with vaccines and things like that, but generally speaking, it's: squeeze every drop out of em we can. That's Capitalism 101. And it's one of the reasons I'm a socialist.
You're doing a good service by spreading this information. Knowledge, among many other things, can definitely affect prices.
Regarding the Dacia/Kwid: are you sure the cars sold in India and Europe are really identical? I would assume there are differences in required safety equipment, for example. There might also be winter-gear and that sort of thing on the European cars. I'm not saying that EV's aren't too expensive, but if you make a direct price comparison the cars must be identical and frankly, I doubt Indian safety regulations are as stringent as the EU's.
They are not indentical. Author missed the fact that the Indian Kwid is petrol, way less equipped (comfort and safety). Add the EV powertrain, battery and shipping and to me the final price is pretty normal.
The American Highway system adopted in the 1960s is the largest highway system and road project in the world. And all of the electric vehicles are currently made over seas (non US) but Rivian has adopted old mitsubishi locations near Chicago. And Tesla is the closest to affordable american mid size sedan. In less then 10 years an EV sedan will cost 2,000$ used. Some of us are waiting for the 2,000$ price range.
Great call out ✊
Driving on the left hand side in Thailand too...
Are oil company’s doing something in the back room
The state government in Victoria, Australia, is suggesting a road tax of 2.5 cents per kilometre for EVs 😱 they obviously don't want them on the road.
That car is the same DONGFENG EX1. At this moment the price range for that car is between 8700 and 16500 USD, FOB Chinese Port.
Taking delivery on a Mini Cooper SE in May - can’t wait!
An excellent car, by the way! I hope you don't think I was besmirching it.
@@Electroheads Not at all! I like that it’s the “entry level” EV in GB & USA - although, it would be nice to have more entry level EV’s available… in due time!
I’ve actually worked on that car’s development! Great pick! 👌
In France the government grant for EVs is 7000 euros. So they just sell cars for 7000 euros more, making a bigger margin.
Man this makes me SO mad
are you sure? - I thought they have loads of Zoe's as so much cheaper than in the UK?
@@Electroheads I have read somewhere that Spring initially will be sold only in countries where are government incentives available.
@@electricwhirl5175 I saw a TH-cam video that said the Spring was initially only going to be sold to car sharing groups, like Zipcar.
@@triviabuff5682 yes, so far I have read that this will be first step, the next step to countries where is government incentives. Afterwards they maybe will sell it all over EU to everyone.
I was so shocked to hear about the the price of 20k. I'm locking right now and between an used Zoe and several new cars in just that price range i hoped the spring would be a top contender but with that price its just another car I'd have to heavely finance like all the other new options.
MG5 looks good, you can get one for £19995.
@@doggylover1958 sorry I wasn't specific about the currency, I calc in euro, and the rate is about 1£ to 1,5€ so it's a 30k car cheap for the size as fiat 500, zoe50 and mini are in a similar price range
Renault who helped the F1 cars work for 4 or 5 times a season LOL
The companies build parts/cars in advance, we've all seen the docks in the south with massive car parks full of brand new cars waiting to be bought and registered, the companies need to sell that dead stock so by keeping the EV prices high they can at least get rid of some of that stock.
Some of the engines made were used in the useless Hybrids, Fiesta uses the same engine in their ICE and Hybrid and stuck a crappy battery on, just to sell the over stock of engines.
As for Dacia pricing in UK, you're definitely right, but then the UK has always had to pay more for most things, the favorite thing I see is something e.g. $499 in US which should be £360 here, but instead they charge the same number £499, cannot tell me it costs £140 more per item which would be bulk shipped to sell here, like I said UK has always been shafted, and I bet it's similar in Australia as well.
Interestingly lease costs are pretty good if you manage to find a pre-reg deal. I went for an e-208 which, for 2 years, is working out at the same price as an ICE 208 for me - basically because it was registered in November. This needs to be the norm. Citroen need to bring the Ami to the UK, we need the Spring to be competitively priced, would be good to see the ORA Good Cat over here (look at it, it's mega). You can increasingly pick up second hand Leafs very cheaply but I worry how long they'll be supported on public charge networks with their older connection cables.
Great vid. Keep up the good work. Dont piss about....Go get one.
Haha, ok FINE I'll do it
Just what you said and I’d love to have one too
I totally agree a car like the Kwid Electric with a range of 150 miles for around $15K in the US would be nice. It's about the same size as my 2016 Chevy Spark EV that I bought used. I like the car so much my only disappointment is a realistic range of 70-80 miles before needing a charge but that's because I love driving it so much. I don't think too many Americans get the EVs just yet even though they make perfect sense for the typical commute or for us retired folks but maybe in a few years after the cost cone down and charging infrastructure improves.
Totally agree with you. I have a Smart ForFour EQ, which is also a Renault Twingo in France and where the Smart ForTwo /Four have a miserly 17kw batteries, the Twingo has over 20kw ( I'm not sure of the exact wattage) so why can't I have a Twingo? well the French don't sell them in the UK.
There is a challenge for you; go to India, buy a Renault Kwid, put it in shipping container and ship back to UK. Register the car and then sell it, hopefully for a good profit. I will look forward to seeing the video. Cheers!
You look fine....your hair is nice......I agree with you about price but we need more range
It's not available in the uk?
Good video and funny, so right about the price, I also think EV is the way we should be going but exactly as you say price is the barrier and then range as a possible other concern.
Dear T Mac please read the following pass it on to every one in UK if you live there. By reducing gross available base load power in pretending to save the climate they are making sure EVs are not cheap other wise there would not be enough power to charge them all up especially in evening in winter, Boy has every one being so had. It is more about investment in Lithium that poisons prestine wilderness in extraction and indeed mind control of the masses than any thing else. where is the power coming from to charge 40 million cars and trucks run industry homes sewer light lift trains hospitals schools.. Look here go buy a really good E bike for all shorter journeys leave the car at home and you achieve the same thing without the cost. I have had Ebikes for 20 years would not live without one. By time EVs become mass transport power prices will equal Petrol prices to reduce usage you will not win.Smaller lighter cars with greater range must be the goal if they added pedals which they could range would be doubled using fly wheel to recharge or more or less power once coasting. In other words the Model T of EVs is not yet arrived. Britain must solve this problem itself. But Learn from Chinese, Nationalise the trains in UK run more smaller trains more often, slide cost of fares according to income using multi function transaction cards. is fastest cheapest way to reduce trsffic and smog. You can become a MP with that as policy. When it stops being about politics lies and corporate profits and about principles and values only then can any thing worth while be done for society. Start the people's revolution now. I have written a small book on how to develop fiscal economic system according to every thing going on now.
Besides (if not even before) the cost of ownership of an EV we have the mindset problem: a lot of people do want to own a car even if owning a car doesn't really makes sense in the first place. Usually cars are parking 90% of the time idle, waiting for the owner to use them. Of course, there are already many car sharing and car pooling solutions, not to speak of the abundance of leasing opportunities (which doesn't necessary enhance the usage of the car) but I still see that the European and UK market definitely needs many more car sharing and micro-term leasing options especially with EVs, so that people (mostly in urban locations) are not tempted by the ownership mentality.
well i had a suzuki alto in 2014 , here cost £6k and built in india its made by meruti suzuki , their called a star was £4k so its maybe no kit inside like airbags? aircon? and the like , what you think?
It is NOT a fixed cost between markets. Cars in Europe require a LOT more safety features than cars in China or India. Air Bags are not mandatory nor a host of other design elements required to meet crash safety in EU and North America. Comforts such as delux audio and navigation are also deleted in Indian versions.
Very funny Video (:
I Like your Humor
Car in Europe needs to meet tighter regulations and therefore would be under the hood different than the ones sold in India. Also take into account that the distribution cost are higher in Europe.
Have you checked the citroen ami?
that Citroen is NOT a real car it is a toy for kids try to go on a motor way whit it and you will understand hahaha.
Isn't the renault kwid petrol only at the moment ?
we are going to test drive a renault zoe today... even after 3k gov incentives, 1k renault discounts....they want over 27k for a tiny e car ... it's madness.
When you said "that doesn't look ugly as sin" and then showed that amazing looking old car, WTF? :-)