Some more clarification. Goku didn't just destroy Sugoroku. He destroyed the entire subspace. Sugoroku is only a part of the subspace where the board game is, which the death gods were destroying to make Goku wander in the subspace forever. This is what they meant with wandering in between dimensions forever. If Goku only destroyed Sugoroku he would still be stuck in the infinite subspace, but he destroyed the whole thing, which forced him back into the living universe (most likely the teleportation zone) The Chouzenshuu states that this subspace doesn't have the concept of time & space. This would make the subspace outerversal, but there is more to it. Sugoroku specifically also transcends life & death and even the Kai's have no power over it. This would make subspace superior to the afterlife. You could scale this feat to 3 layers into outerversal or even high outerversal.
@@SaiyanScholarpower scaling am I right 😂 Heres a summary. Limbo has no concept of time There's a subspace that encompasses this sugoroku space realm? Whatever. When a Realm encompasses a realm that lacks the "concept of time" that's according to CSAP tiering system and physics (lol) Means Outerversal. Which is strong Really frickin strong Gt Goku with such power would one shot all of anime In his base form. And you know that Dragon ball is THAT ridiculous
I like this concept better than gods, angels, and zen-oh of super. The caretakers were vague, unknowable, even eldritch. Definitely more appealing to me than having weird-looking clowns and literal children be the ultimate power in the db multiverse.
Super's writing and characterization of the cast is just horrendous in general. Plots are stupid, characters are dumbed down and one note, transformations are unearned with little meaning. GT isn't perfect but it's infinitely more worthy as a dragonball successor.
@@SaiyanScholar I wholeheartedly agree with this, people are way too black and white when it comes to GT and Super, both do certain things really well and both have great stories/sagas but it's also true that GT and Super do a lot of things wrong too, and that's okay, nothing is perfect. I appreciate both and am grateful that we got to experience them.
If one is stronger than nothing, wouldn’t that make them weaker than something? 🤔 Jokes aside, this was a pretty interesting video. I never thought about the parallels between Sugoroku Space and the River Sanzu.
When someone is stronger then Dimensionlessness they are Outerversal are beyond the concept of Dimensionality why? Because Goku interacts with an "abstract realm" what is abstract? Something that ain't physical and temporal or lacks time and space. And yo add more it was beyond the concept of life and death thus limbo.
A better way to put it might be that Goku is stronger than nothingness or non-existance. Where space is consantly expanding and coming into existance, Goku is strong enough to exist on the other side of that. I guess this might mean for example, if Zeno decided to delete the universe, Goku would still exist. So Goku is > Zeno? Shouldn't this mean Goku should resist being hakai'd?
@TengokuEXE wrong when your stronger then non existence your stronger then the concept of Dimensionality the very Concepts like distance speed time and space don't apply you i.e Outerversal
@@itousatha5359 Sorry, I don't keep up much with the powerscaling community. I clarified Goku was stronger than nothing/non existance. You stated that makes him outversal. Kool. Where was I wrong? I feel like were on the same page.
Goku: my strength is nothing Me: wow that's something else Goku: no no my power is nothing Me: don't be like that I sure you're power is something out of this world Goku:...... wait what were we talking about again? Me: nothing
So many amazing dialogues and details get lost in the dub version, this dimension felt so out of place to me because i didnt understand what was going on
@@SaiyanScholar Absolutely! You would be surprised of how many people don't know the lore that you stated in the video, especially Goku transcending into nirvana like Sun Wukong does in "Journey to the West", at least that is what I think happens to him in the EOGT.
What kind of heaven are the CHAD Sigma Squad gonna go? I mean General Rildo, Tienshinhan and Z Broly. Well, Broly probably gonna go to Super Duper Hell.
Dragon Ball Fans who only watch to powerscale either don't understand it, or just straight up dislike the show. (This is NOT a diss a Saiyan Scholar, he watches it for more than Powerscaling, he even explains the episode's deeper story in this video, so no, this is not about him.)
If someone is outerversal they cannot die from the vacuum of space and while goku is out here can’t survive in the vacuum of space so he isn’t outer Outerversal means transcending the literal concepts space and time if I’m not wrong
When it says “no one is alive/around anymore” in the gt special I don’t think it means everyone as all character but all main characters. King yema, king Kai, supreme Kai should still be “alive”
@@TFF_Onida I'd argue it doesn't matter more than it not making sense. Goku can't survive the destruction of a universe he is in so we will never see him use that much power in a single attack.
@@Babylauncher3000 Goku always protects his universe that's why he survive against people trying to destroy his universe "Goku doesn't need to use that much power in his attack it's called being master and ki usage
@@Babylauncher3000 Buuhan was going to destroy the universe. This was stated in the guides of dragon ball z and Gerenal Rilldo stated to be stronger then buu. So yes gt Goku can destroy the universe but doesn't because he would died without oxygen.
10:35 Let me correct you 😅 there When you move beyond linear time thats Immeasurable speed. But when you move in a realm where the time and soace doesn't Exist You moving beyond movement its a long story but to cut it short. Thats "Irrelevent speed" even though calling it a speed is contradictory to what it actually is. 10:55 You have understand what you just said😂 What your saying here To Trancend time and soace where there is lack of said time and soace is Outerversal 😂
@SaiyanScholar it's usually hard to accept or even comprehend how freaking strong some fo this characters can get. Like I can tell you never would have thought in your wildest dreams Goku Was THIS strong
You have proof Goku is outer if he's only still 3D dimensional being where time still flows for him. He would've literally been obliterated by his clashing with Beerus while spacetime in universe with nothingness will be intact, give out sources and proof that hyperbolic time is outer? Writers like Koyama don't even enjoy power scaling at all he writes it for fun
It makes no sense because its antithetical to Goku's character, if was that powerful just end Dragon ball he wouldn't have anything to work towards if he was outerversal
@@SaiyanScholarThis is a big problem in DBS in my opinion, where characters seem a hell of a lot stronger than they actually are because they're doing better than they should against really strong characters. I like Super Saiyan Blue but it can't really get anything.
I gotta disagree with this whole argument. Moving around in a dimension with no space and no time doesn't make you beyond the concept of speed because there very clearly is a relative amount of it for a 3D being to operate normally inside it. There's no time but it's clearly been 600 years for the space tanuki. Time has no effect on them but they still experience time. Same thing with space. A good example to wrap your head around this is a treadmill. You can experience running on a treadmill but you aren't exactly going anywhere. Same concept for this weird space-time. It's a prison that allows for a 3rd dimensional being to exist but only in the barest sense of the concept. Destroying this dimension is equivalent to destroying infinite nothingness. If you really want to get into it, he didn't really destroy the dimension. If you think of space/time and the physical universe as an ocean then this pocket dimension is like a ship. What Goku essentially did is poke a hole in the ship allowing for space and time to flood the dimension which explains why he pops up in the living world as the pocket dimension was between the fabric of reality of the living world. It's still very impressive to break the walls between reality. Don't get me wrong. He's just not "beyond" the concept of speed. Space and time is how we measure dimensions. A 3D being is above a 2D being and so on. A dimension with no space or time is equivalent to 0D or a singularity. It's essentially a black hole in concept but there's clearly been some modifications to accommodate a 3rd dimensional being as there are limited aspects of time and space within the dimension. Like a 3 dimensional pocket within a singularity within a 3 dimensional universe.
@@AstroRayGun I don’t think you’re understanding the “600 years” point. Since it’s already contextualized that the place has no time or space, it wouldn’t be in reference to time passing within that dimension but rather in reference to time passing in the living world like how the grand priest measured time in the tournament of power using “ticks” since the world of void lacks time and space which explains why he had to use an alternate measurement AS IF time were passing there.
@zetasolos1 no I get that. It's about relativity. Obviously 600 years haven't passed in the real world but, relative to them, it has been roughly 600 years. This isn't a new concept. The hyperbolic time chamber has a similar function in that a year can pass in it while only a day passes in the real world. Time is slowed significantly in that dimension as opposed to not existing at all but the concept is the same in which time is different between two dimensions. Time is just a reference point and without it, you simply can't progress to the future. That's what they're getting at and simply existing in this dimension doesn't make you "beyond time" and therefore you have "infinite speed". It just means you're in a dimension where you can't move forward temporally. Just like a treadmill but in a time based sense. These kinds of things aren't uncommon in fiction. The Heavenly City of Kun Lun in Marvel also has no time but it doesn't mean that Danny Rand/Iron Fist has infinite speed to be able to train there. It's just a bit of a reach to try and argue that and is a fundamental misunderstanding of speed. Speed is a measurement that uses distance and time. Two things that don't even exist in said dimension so there's no measurement. You can only get a 0. Not infinite. At the same time, they do exist in the dimension relative to Goku and the other beings in there. They just don't age relative to living world and there's nothing to move to outside of the little pocket realm made for them where they were allotted some physical space until it started to collapse.
*please ditch this poser for my real classroom of content. I’m cheap I don’t run ads but I keep it actually 💯 and I’m the only Dragonball fan in the world that will. On yo mama*
@ are you hard of reading or something I keep it real you’re way too on the fence to not seem like you don’t have an NDA bro. You know good and well supers trash but you continue to milk it for content which I understand bro but be truthful and keep your dignity’s
@@SaiyanScholar GT has so many amazing concepts and it's a shame they didn't get executed well I mean Dragon Ball super recycles a lot of concepts from Z and GT only they make it worse however that is only my opinion as both super and GT are flawed but I prefer GT
Pick up your Video Games with up to 90% OFF!
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Where is "what if death were permanent" part 3?!
I told you, im invensted man !!
The perfect ending for Son Goku, in my opinion.
🐉🥹
Some more clarification. Goku didn't just destroy Sugoroku. He destroyed the entire subspace. Sugoroku is only a part of the subspace where the board game is, which the death gods were destroying to make Goku wander in the subspace forever. This is what they meant with wandering in between dimensions forever. If Goku only destroyed Sugoroku he would still be stuck in the infinite subspace, but he destroyed the whole thing, which forced him back into the living universe (most likely the teleportation zone)
The Chouzenshuu states that this subspace doesn't have the concept of time & space. This would make the subspace outerversal, but there is more to it. Sugoroku specifically also transcends life & death and even the Kai's have no power over it. This would make subspace superior to the afterlife. You could scale this feat to 3 layers into outerversal or even high outerversal.
🫡
@@SaiyanScholarpower scaling am I right 😂
Heres a summary.
Limbo has no concept of time
There's a subspace that encompasses this sugoroku space realm? Whatever.
When a Realm encompasses a realm that lacks the "concept of time" that's according to CSAP tiering system and physics (lol)
Means Outerversal.
Which is strong Really frickin strong
Gt Goku with such power would one shot all of anime In his base form.
And you know that Dragon ball is THAT ridiculous
@@itousatha5359that’s true though no one off the top of my head beats changed state goku. He is the TOAA of anime
@@OrangeStarHighSchool changed state Goku is GT Goku that I'm talking about
I like this concept better than gods, angels, and zen-oh of super. The caretakers were vague, unknowable, even eldritch. Definitely more appealing to me than having weird-looking clowns and literal children be the ultimate power in the db multiverse.
Super's writing and characterization of the cast is just horrendous in general. Plots are stupid, characters are dumbed down and one note, transformations are unearned with little meaning. GT isn't perfect but it's infinitely more worthy as a dragonball successor.
@@toottootsonicwarrior5777 i agree. based pfp and name also, btw.
I'm Subbing to all 3 of you 🎉
They were deffo mysterious and spooky. We all like different things for different reasons, I like some stuff from GT and Super in different ways
@@SaiyanScholar I wholeheartedly agree with this, people are way too black and white when it comes to GT and Super, both do certain things really well and both have great stories/sagas but it's also true that GT and Super do a lot of things wrong too, and that's okay, nothing is perfect.
I appreciate both and am grateful that we got to experience them.
Goku had transcended like Gouken in Street Fighter. The power of nothingness.
Haha 😄
"Goku one shots nothing"
Recoome:
LMAO
To be fair Recoome let his guard down.
Drum, Chichi, Medamatcha, Angila
Chichi?!? No bro, she cooks goku.@@Babylauncher3000
I love that this made an otherwise nonsensical subplot make total sense and increase my enjoyment of Sugoroku space
If one is stronger than nothing, wouldn’t that make them weaker than something? 🤔
Jokes aside, this was a pretty interesting video. I never thought about the parallels between Sugoroku Space and the River Sanzu.
Unfathomable logic yes haha
When someone is stronger then Dimensionlessness they are Outerversal are beyond the concept of Dimensionality why?
Because Goku interacts with an "abstract realm" what is abstract? Something that ain't physical and temporal or lacks time and space.
And yo add more it was beyond the concept of life and death thus limbo.
A better way to put it might be that Goku is stronger than nothingness or non-existance. Where space is consantly expanding and coming into existance, Goku is strong enough to exist on the other side of that.
I guess this might mean for example, if Zeno decided to delete the universe, Goku would still exist. So Goku is > Zeno? Shouldn't this mean Goku should resist being hakai'd?
@TengokuEXE wrong when your stronger then non existence your stronger then the concept of Dimensionality the very Concepts like distance speed time and space don't apply you i.e Outerversal
@@itousatha5359 Sorry, I don't keep up much with the powerscaling community. I clarified Goku was stronger than nothing/non existance. You stated that makes him outversal. Kool. Where was I wrong? I feel like were on the same page.
Goku: my strength is nothing
Me: wow that's something else
Goku: no no my power is nothing
Me: don't be like that I sure you're power is something out of this world
Goku:...... wait what were we talking about again?
Me: nothing
LMAO
Outerversal Goku in general makes no sense
So many amazing dialogues and details get lost in the dub version, this dimension felt so out of place to me because i didnt understand what was going on
🫡
Hearing you talk about Shinigami is so cool. I hope we can hear you talk about Bleach one day Scholar.
I'd love to watch more of Bleach. I need a Hyperbolic Time Chamber
@@SaiyanScholar Hell yeah!
Epic lore drop video
Love a lore drop!
@@SaiyanScholar
Absolutely! You would be surprised of how many people don't know the lore that you stated in the video, especially Goku transcending into nirvana like Sun Wukong does in "Journey to the West", at least that is what I think happens to him in the EOGT.
What kind of heaven are the CHAD Sigma Squad gonna go? I mean General Rildo, Tienshinhan and Z Broly. Well, Broly probably gonna go to Super Duper Hell.
LMAO
HFIL: “Am I a joke for you?”
Dragon Ball Fans who only watch to powerscale either don't understand it, or just straight up dislike the show. (This is NOT a diss a Saiyan Scholar, he watches it for more than Powerscaling, he even explains the episode's deeper story in this video, so no, this is not about him.)
i understood what the title mean only at 2/3 of it lol nice one
And people hype up cabba.
Cabba is OK
@SaiyanScholar yes he is serviceable but they think anime cabba could beat something beyond outerversal. (Aka GT Gogeta.
@@SansINess53 It is a meme. Do you know what a meme is?
@@Knk_Nugis ik but some people actually take it seriously.
@SansINess53 don't tell me you take these people seriously?
1:53 Bro, if I show up to the river and the shinigami looks like that, I’m offering “alternative methods of payment”.
If someone is outerversal they cannot die from the vacuum of space and while goku is out here can’t survive in the vacuum of space so he isn’t outer Outerversal means transcending the literal concepts space and time if I’m not wrong
He literally survived in space breathing and was not affected by space when he popped back in it after that Dimension was destroyed lol
@ oh my bad lol I guess he can survive in the vacuum of space
w video Scholar as usual
Thanks man!
The gate that glows green where Goku and Sugoroku were running towards, what was the name?
I've got a mind blank today sorry lol
When it says “no one is alive/around anymore” in the gt special I don’t think it means everyone as all character but all main characters. King yema, king Kai, supreme Kai should still be “alive”
Cool video
🥷
Super Thankful for Pride/respect
✌🏻🫡💯
W video!
Thanks man!
you didnt explain "Why Goku Outerversal Makes No Sense" though
@@TFF_Onida I'd argue it doesn't matter more than it not making sense.
Goku can't survive the destruction of a universe he is in so we will never see him use that much power in a single attack.
@@Babylauncher3000 Goku always protects his universe that's why he survive against people trying to destroy his universe "Goku doesn't need to use that much power in his attack it's called being master and ki usage
No he’s being soft and catering to super because his subscribers are literally children.
@@OrangeStarHighSchoolwhat are you yapping abt 😭
@@Babylauncher3000 Buuhan was going to destroy the universe. This was stated in the guides of dragon ball z and Gerenal Rilldo stated to be stronger then buu. So yes gt Goku can destroy the universe but doesn't because he would died without oxygen.
You can argue the hyperbolic time chamber is a outerversal feat
The HBTC has time. 1 year in there is 1 day on earth. Because of this it can't be outerversal. Its still a subspace but not on the level of Sugoroku.
10:35
Let me correct you 😅 there
When you move beyond linear time thats Immeasurable speed.
But when you move in a realm where the time and soace doesn't Exist
You moving beyond movement its a long story but to cut it short.
Thats "Irrelevent speed" even though calling it a speed is contradictory to what it actually is.
10:55
You have understand what you just said😂
What your saying here
To Trancend time and soace where there is lack of said time and soace is Outerversal 😂
Haha appreciate it! It's been a while since I made this one
@SaiyanScholar it's usually hard to accept or even comprehend how freaking strong some fo this characters can get.
Like I can tell you never would have thought in your wildest dreams Goku Was THIS strong
Btw, you should play dragon ball shin budokai or I'll kick you in the shins.
Haha. Was that PSP?
@@SaiyanScholar or it might be a PS2!
@@SaiyanScholar also yes, it is in the PSP, you can go and play it in a emulator, as no sales are being made, it is just used market.
personally goku isnt outerversal being but does has the ap strength and destructibility of it
I love the supernatural empty. Supernatural my most favorite franchise. DragonBall my 2nd. I really like that you showed that
W vid
😊 thank you
Like nothing the primordial abyss being???
0% Nothing
@@SaiyanScholarahh 😂
🥷🙏d't touch please
🥷
@SaiyanScholar thé best of the best
This feat is nothing goku at age 12 in early dragonball broke the manga panel
Goku always been outer space despite what the writers says he took the boss rabbit to the moon as a kid
You have proof Goku is outer if he's only still 3D dimensional being where time still flows for him. He would've literally been obliterated by his clashing with Beerus while spacetime in universe with nothingness will be intact, give out sources and proof that hyperbolic time is outer? Writers like Koyama don't even enjoy power scaling at all he writes it for fun
@BackroomsDogeScp173 when did it state that Goku would've been obliterated do you know how ki works ?
@@BackroomsDogeScp173 the super broly movie shows Goku animated in 3d
@@BackroomsDogeScp173okay he can still have outer ap lol 😂 this debunks nothing
@@TheRefslovesMichaelJordan someone didn't watched BoG movie or ep 13 of Super 😭
It makes no sense because its antithetical to Goku's character, if was that powerful just end Dragon ball he wouldn't have anything to work towards if he was outerversal
Sometimes feats are just for plot. Sometimes for fun. Sometimes they forget they can do things for a plot. But yeah haha
@@SaiyanScholarThis is a big problem in DBS in my opinion, where characters seem a hell of a lot stronger than they actually are because they're doing better than they should against really strong characters. I like Super Saiyan Blue but it can't really get anything.
W
✌🏻✌🏻
I gotta disagree with this whole argument. Moving around in a dimension with no space and no time doesn't make you beyond the concept of speed because there very clearly is a relative amount of it for a 3D being to operate normally inside it. There's no time but it's clearly been 600 years for the space tanuki. Time has no effect on them but they still experience time. Same thing with space. A good example to wrap your head around this is a treadmill. You can experience running on a treadmill but you aren't exactly going anywhere. Same concept for this weird space-time. It's a prison that allows for a 3rd dimensional being to exist but only in the barest sense of the concept.
Destroying this dimension is equivalent to destroying infinite nothingness. If you really want to get into it, he didn't really destroy the dimension. If you think of space/time and the physical universe as an ocean then this pocket dimension is like a ship. What Goku essentially did is poke a hole in the ship allowing for space and time to flood the dimension which explains why he pops up in the living world as the pocket dimension was between the fabric of reality of the living world.
It's still very impressive to break the walls between reality. Don't get me wrong. He's just not "beyond" the concept of speed. Space and time is how we measure dimensions. A 3D being is above a 2D being and so on. A dimension with no space or time is equivalent to 0D or a singularity. It's essentially a black hole in concept but there's clearly been some modifications to accommodate a 3rd dimensional being as there are limited aspects of time and space within the dimension. Like a 3 dimensional pocket within a singularity within a 3 dimensional universe.
@@AstroRayGun I don’t think you’re understanding the “600 years” point. Since it’s already contextualized that the place has no time or space, it wouldn’t be in reference to time passing within that dimension but rather in reference to time passing in the living world like how the grand priest measured time in the tournament of power using “ticks” since the world of void lacks time and space which explains why he had to use an alternate measurement AS IF time were passing there.
@zetasolos1 no I get that. It's about relativity. Obviously 600 years haven't passed in the real world but, relative to them, it has been roughly 600 years. This isn't a new concept. The hyperbolic time chamber has a similar function in that a year can pass in it while only a day passes in the real world. Time is slowed significantly in that dimension as opposed to not existing at all but the concept is the same in which time is different between two dimensions.
Time is just a reference point and without it, you simply can't progress to the future. That's what they're getting at and simply existing in this dimension doesn't make you "beyond time" and therefore you have "infinite speed". It just means you're in a dimension where you can't move forward temporally. Just like a treadmill but in a time based sense. These kinds of things aren't uncommon in fiction. The Heavenly City of Kun Lun in Marvel also has no time but it doesn't mean that Danny Rand/Iron Fist has infinite speed to be able to train there. It's just a bit of a reach to try and argue that and is a fundamental misunderstanding of speed. Speed is a measurement that uses distance and time. Two things that don't even exist in said dimension so there's no measurement. You can only get a 0. Not infinite. At the same time, they do exist in the dimension relative to Goku and the other beings in there. They just don't age relative to living world and there's nothing to move to outside of the little pocket realm made for them where they were allotted some physical space until it started to collapse.
Shut up scholar baby was outerversal and you know it.
Why would he lower his power level he likes Goku Bru. If anything he could've js skipped over this subject
First
Welcome!
2nd
Maybe 3rd?! Haha
*please ditch this poser for my real classroom of content. I’m cheap I don’t run ads but I keep it actually 💯 and I’m the only Dragonball fan in the world that will. On yo mama*
What's this about lol
@ are you hard of reading or something I keep it real you’re way too on the fence to not seem like you don’t have an NDA bro. You know good and well supers trash but you continue to milk it for content which I understand bro but be truthful and keep your dignity’s
I think you need to stop getting personal , the way you're wording your replies are honestly something I don't respect
First
Yo!
@@SaiyanScholar GT has so many amazing concepts and it's a shame they didn't get executed well I mean Dragon Ball super recycles a lot of concepts from Z and GT only they make it worse however that is only my opinion as both super and GT are flawed but I prefer GT