You have taken that out of context. You can't do the same lift every week for max effort or 1 rep max because you will eventually regress and go backwards. You can however train the same lift continuously if using sub maximal weights.
I don't agree with all of the Westside principles (I never was interested in rotating exercises on ME day) but some are good. I had a lot of success with DE work+accommodating resistance, specifically bench with chains. However, two important things to remember 1) EVERYONE at Westside was at minimum, an advanced lifter. Most were elite. What they needed is most likely not what you need as a beginner. For example, most Westside guys were long past the point where more hypertrophy would translate into adding to their total. 2) Speed bench works, but it's not necessary all the time. I would only incorporate it starting 8-10 weeks out from a meet, and even then it would not be done every week of a 3 week wave until the very end. The remainder of the year you probably should be doing more technical practice/bodybuilding. And that's a good point to remember, your training over the course of an entire year will look different in March than June than October. No one does the exact same thing year round For reference, I raw benched 500 every year from 2018 to 2023, in training or comp. Adding speed work was one major factor that got me there.
Very valuable insights here, I do agree that the stronger/more advanced you get, the less often you can probably handle near-maximal loading, and that submax work (like speed work!) becomes more valuable
@@jondoc7525 I agree that there could be a lifter even doing conjugate that gets to the top level. The most genetically gifted lifters could do basically any kind of lifting and get to the top level.
Your comment implies, that you dont know a lot of these international athletes. Or you only focus on ipf and forget the rest of the powerlifting World. And yes, powerlifting is way more then IPf 😂
I agree with all your points. On the rotation of exercises - many people have had great success with it under the assumption that it’s limited to 3 or 4 exercises and those movements closely mimic the movement they are building. Mike Westerling has a method like this with tremendous success in strongman circles. Contrast that with the unlimited amount of variations in multiply powerlifting, no raw powerlifter has any need to be doing that sort of thing. Speed work is overrated. Every raw lifter that I know that has had success with speed work is severely out of shape. I’d imagine it’s more of a mechanism of the short rest intervals with 8-12 sets. Once these people start getting in shape the progression goes away. In regards to bands and chains, I don’t think they are worthless by any means, a raw powerlifter needs a specific reason to be using them traditionally. I do think that reverse bands and weight releasers are much better options in an off-season for a raw lifter. More so to get acclimated to heavy weight than to drive adaptation. I will always love Westside though for what they’ve done for strength training and I recommend anyone interested to read the books, articles, and listen to the podcasts from when Louie was alive. Many fantastic ideas. A lot of westside haters might have a change of heart when they take the time to understand the context and how westside was actually ran. It’s not an upper/lower split with 2 dynamic and 2 max effort days with bands, chains and box squats. That’s 20% of the program. 80% of the volume was done on assistance exercises and let’s not forget the 1 to 2 a day extra workouts that were thrown in.
It's not "conjugate periodization" it's concurrent periodization where you try to develop all physical capabilities simultaneously training in a conjugate manner where you change exercises frequently. You can in theory train in a conjugate manner using linear periodization or you can train with only a few limited exercises while using concurrent periodization.
Interestingly enough. I dont think conjugate is good if your on the upper tier of your genetic potential in terms of strength but to be honest when I worked with pro athletes it was probably the best system that is an actual strict system for explosive power with athletes like vertical leap and starts for sprinting
@@OfficialTeamOutlier Welcome. I have done an audit report for your TH-cam channel and found some issues if you want to see the audit report please give me your mail id. Thank you
I cant stand when people try to push the idea that developing your explosive ability doesnt transfer to benefiting your max effort strength because max effort lifts "arent done fast". Go ahead try doing your max lifts in a deliberately slow speed and then come back and make the video about how actually yes we do have to atleast try to do our max lifts as fast as possible otherwise they wont happen. The heavy lifts arent done slowly because speed and power have no part in the max strength equation. Theyre done slowly because they're HEAVY AS FUCK and we simply can't move heavy ass weights at a fast speed. The reason louie was the best was because he understood the relationship between the two. You on the other hand are bass ackwards brother. Good day.
You learned nothing from Louie. On a max effort day you take an exercise, or the variation exercise for 3-4x of singles over 90%. You can't use an intensity of over 90% for more than 3 weeks, bc there's too much stress on the nervous system, and your lifts will drop. This has been researched. Louie was taking lifters off the streets of Ohio and turning them into world record holders in the 80s, it has nothing to do with equipped lifting. And it also doesn't sound like you understand the true concept of bands and chains. You really need to research more.
@@yty-p9kas far as i remember they mostly criticised it for being more universal for the group than personal for themselves, kenny patterson and chuck vogelpohl talked about being trained raw until the last few weeks before competition and being "forced" to gain weight even when it did little to them, matt wenning talked about volume not fitting him and louie being mad about his modifications
I appreciate the respectful way you went about this but you really don’t have a clue about proper Conjugate training and to be fair almost none who run the system apply/applied it’s principles correctly and that includes Louie himself. Too much overload, too high of intensity for max and dynamic effort work, way too much volume in accessories and poor choices for gpp. When applied from a mindset of maximizing training efficiency instead of trying to hit everything with a sledgehammer and applying each area of performance with the only necessary volumes and intensities to create desired adaptations with minimal fatigue a properly Conjugate is by far the most optimal training system for not only field sport athletes but powerlifters as well. As far as max effort training goes the rotation of lifts is what allows you to train at 90% or more intensities year round with minimal fatigue and wear and tear on the body. What many lifters don’t understand is that all the reps they perform with comp lift at submaximal intensities actually carry over far less to a 1rm than a less specific but still similar movement performed at 90% or more. All this volume with the comp lifts is essentially inefficient hypertrophy work that beats most people to hell over time. The only thing this is good for is getting to practice your set up over and over again but this can also be accomplished with dynamic effort training in a way that is much more efficient and actually has more carry over to your 1rm. Also most conjugate lifter fall in love with overload exercises for max effort which is absolutely pointless for raw lifters and does nothing but boost their egos and generate unnecessary fatigue. As for the dynamic effort, it’s really just the icing on the cake that maximizes neural efficiency, allows for more practice of setting up the movement, gives the body time to recover from previous max effort training days as well as possibly providing a some hypertrophy with a very good stimulus to fatigue ratio. To get these adaptations from dynamic effort work though you have to really give it your all and lift as explosively as possible which again many conjugate trainees slack off when performing their DE work. Dynamic Effort training also has to be performed at the proper intensities which changes from athlete to athlete depending on their genetic pre-deposition to display power. Bands and chains are also crucial to maximizing rate of force development which absolutely will vary over to a 1rm. You can only apply maximal force force for a certain amount of time so if you can decrease the amount of time it takes to perform a heavy rep at a given weight then your 1rm will be slightly higher. Again, just icing on the cake but when lifters cut out the dynamic effort work they more often than not do not progress at the same rates and notice a slight decrease in performance. Hopefully one day someone will put PROPERLY applied Conjugate training on the map but unfortunately the system tends to attract mostly dumb meatheads who just want to look and feel tough like their westside heros and or take the go hard or go home mindset and completely miss the point of the program.
Always open to having my mind changed by someone who, as you put it, hopefully comes along and properly applies the principles in a way we haven't seen before
@@OfficialTeamOutlierAppreciate the open mindedness. I do understand the reasons why most people think poorly of the system. The dumb training and the cringe over the top try hard personalities of most of its followers drive most people away and rightfully so. A big pitfall of Conjugate is it is a complex system that requires a tremendous amount of training knowledge to self-program. All these variables make the program very easy to screw up and just one area of performance being trained improperly can wreck the entire system. I myself originally fell in love with conjugate but myself did not initially get the best results because I was doing many things incorrectly. I held the same positions you did for many years until I actually saw the rapid increases in both size and strength from athletes who switched from more traditional strength / powerlifting training to an intelligently put together Conjugate system. They also accomplished these things all while getting less beat up, reducing their fatigue levels and improving their athleticism significantly. Training is also more fun which inevitably will become more and more important the longer you train in order to reduce staleness and keep you from burning out mentally. I still believe traditional methods do work and may even be more optimal for lifters just starting out but the stronger you get the more important efficiency, recovery and variation will become in order to minimize fatigue and continue progressing to higher levels of strength while keeping your body injury free and staying motivated to keep training hard.
you deserve way more subscribers and views. this is an excellently put together video
Thanks so much!
You have taken that out of context. You can't do the same lift every week for max effort or 1 rep max because you will eventually regress and go backwards. You can however train the same lift continuously if using sub maximal weights.
I don't agree with all of the Westside principles (I never was interested in rotating exercises on ME day) but some are good. I had a lot of success with DE work+accommodating resistance, specifically bench with chains. However, two important things to remember 1) EVERYONE at Westside was at minimum, an advanced lifter. Most were elite. What they needed is most likely not what you need as a beginner. For example, most Westside guys were long past the point where more hypertrophy would translate into adding to their total. 2) Speed bench works, but it's not necessary all the time. I would only incorporate it starting 8-10 weeks out from a meet, and even then it would not be done every week of a 3 week wave until the very end. The remainder of the year you probably should be doing more technical practice/bodybuilding. And that's a good point to remember, your training over the course of an entire year will look different in March than June than October. No one does the exact same thing year round
For reference, I raw benched 500 every year from 2018 to 2023, in training or comp. Adding speed work was one major factor that got me there.
Very valuable insights here, I do agree that the stronger/more advanced you get, the less often you can probably handle near-maximal loading, and that submax work (like speed work!) becomes more valuable
@@OfficialTeamOutlier The big lesson is that most people try to train like an elite lifter far too early.
Not a single lifter on international stage lifting conjugate. Speaks for itself.
Eh someone will come . Still depends if you juice or not and genetics for these type of records probably five feet tall too
@@jondoc7525 I agree that there could be a lifter even doing conjugate that gets to the top level. The most genetically gifted lifters could do basically any kind of lifting and get to the top level.
@@osweldshonestly any program is useful for a cycle or two . Try it for a few months and go back .
Your comment implies, that you dont know a lot of these international athletes. Or you only focus on ipf and forget the rest of the powerlifting World. And yes, powerlifting is way more then IPf 😂
@@FelixKg09 I do not give much attention to the other ones where they lift less weight with worse form and more gear.
I agree with all your points.
On the rotation of exercises - many people have had great success with it under the assumption that it’s limited to 3 or 4 exercises and those movements closely mimic the movement they are building. Mike Westerling has a method like this with tremendous success in strongman circles. Contrast that with the unlimited amount of variations in multiply powerlifting, no raw powerlifter has any need to be doing that sort of thing.
Speed work is overrated. Every raw lifter that I know that has had success with speed work is severely out of shape. I’d imagine it’s more of a mechanism of the short rest intervals with 8-12 sets. Once these people start getting in shape the progression goes away.
In regards to bands and chains, I don’t think they are worthless by any means, a raw powerlifter needs a specific reason to be using them traditionally. I do think that reverse bands and weight releasers are much better options in an off-season for a raw lifter. More so to get acclimated to heavy weight than to drive adaptation.
I will always love Westside though for what they’ve done for strength training and I recommend anyone interested to read the books, articles, and listen to the podcasts from when Louie was alive. Many fantastic ideas.
A lot of westside haters might have a change of heart when they take the time to understand the context and how westside was actually ran. It’s not an upper/lower split with 2 dynamic and 2 max effort days with bands, chains and box squats. That’s 20% of the program. 80% of the volume was done on assistance exercises and let’s not forget the 1 to 2 a day extra workouts that were thrown in.
Thanks for your thoughts! You make some solid points
This was a good video thanks.
It's not "conjugate periodization" it's concurrent periodization where you try to develop all physical capabilities simultaneously training in a conjugate manner where you change exercises frequently. You can in theory train in a conjugate manner using linear periodization or you can train with only a few limited exercises while using concurrent periodization.
Interestingly enough. I dont think conjugate is good if your on the upper tier of your genetic potential in terms of strength but to be honest when I worked with pro athletes it was probably the best system that is an actual strict system for explosive power with athletes like vertical leap and starts for sprinting
Conjugate may not be the best for powerlifting* but for sports, athletics, and general strength, health, and fitness. It is the best.
Wow great. I think there is a lot to learn from your TH-cam channel. Thank you
Thank you!
@@OfficialTeamOutlier Welcome.
I have done an audit report for your TH-cam channel and found some issues if you want to see the audit report please give me your mail id. Thank you
3 is my biggest gripe. You’re working on the easiest part of the lift.
Did you know that the Soviet's invented Dynamic Effort for throwers, not weightlifters. My source was Soviet lifter and coach Naum Kelmsnsky.
I cant stand when people try to push the idea that developing your explosive ability doesnt transfer to benefiting your max effort strength because max effort lifts "arent done fast". Go ahead try doing your max lifts in a deliberately slow speed and then come back and make the video about how actually yes we do have to atleast try to do our max lifts as fast as possible otherwise they wont happen.
The heavy lifts arent done slowly because speed and power have no part in the max strength equation. Theyre done slowly because they're HEAVY AS FUCK and we simply can't move heavy ass weights at a fast speed.
The reason louie was the best was because he understood the relationship between the two. You on the other hand are bass ackwards brother. Good day.
Training should always be advancing and improving.
You learned nothing from Louie. On a max effort day you take an exercise, or the variation exercise for 3-4x of singles over 90%. You can't use an intensity of over 90% for more than 3 weeks, bc there's too much stress on the nervous system, and your lifts will drop. This has been researched. Louie was taking lifters off the streets of Ohio and turning them into world record holders in the 80s, it has nothing to do with equipped lifting. And it also doesn't sound like you understand the true concept of bands and chains. You really need to research more.
Bro, great content, BUT WTF is this background "music" like we are in some kind of a cult? Please stop that 🙂
Hahahaha fair. I need to expand my royalty-free library for sure
@@OfficialTeamOutlier legend!
Just realized this is my trainers style 🤷🏾♂️
The records speak for themselves. Talk is cheap
@@yty-p9kas far as i remember they mostly criticised it for being more universal for the group than personal for themselves, kenny patterson and chuck vogelpohl talked about being trained raw until the last few weeks before competition and being "forced" to gain weight even when it did little to them, matt wenning talked about volume not fitting him and louie being mad about his modifications
@@yty-p9k yea i forgot about JM, he took the path of boris sheiko with those fast reps which i dont really understand
I appreciate the respectful way you went about this but you really don’t have a clue about proper Conjugate training and to be fair almost none who run the system apply/applied it’s principles correctly and that includes Louie himself. Too much overload, too high of intensity for max and dynamic effort work, way too much volume in accessories and poor choices for gpp. When applied from a mindset of maximizing training efficiency instead of trying to hit everything with a sledgehammer and applying each area of performance with the only necessary volumes and intensities to create desired adaptations with minimal fatigue a properly Conjugate is by far the most optimal training system for not only field sport athletes but powerlifters as well. As far as max effort training goes the rotation of lifts is what allows you to train at 90% or more intensities year round with minimal fatigue and wear and tear on the body. What many lifters don’t understand is that all the reps they perform with comp lift at submaximal intensities actually carry over far less to a 1rm than a less specific but still similar movement performed at 90% or more. All this volume with the comp lifts is essentially inefficient hypertrophy work that beats most people to hell over time. The only thing this is good for is getting to practice your set up over and over again but this can also be accomplished with dynamic effort training in a way that is much more efficient and actually has more carry over to your 1rm. Also most conjugate lifter fall in love with overload exercises for max effort which is absolutely pointless for raw lifters and does nothing but boost their egos and generate unnecessary fatigue. As for the dynamic effort, it’s really just the icing on the cake that maximizes neural efficiency, allows for more practice of setting up the movement, gives the body time to recover from previous max effort training days as well as possibly providing a some hypertrophy with a very good stimulus to fatigue ratio. To get these adaptations from dynamic effort work though you have to really give it your all and lift as explosively as possible which again many conjugate trainees slack off when performing their DE work. Dynamic Effort training also has to be performed at the proper intensities which changes from athlete to athlete depending on their genetic pre-deposition to display power. Bands and chains are also crucial to maximizing rate of force development which absolutely will vary over to a 1rm. You can only apply maximal force force for a certain amount of time so if you can decrease the amount of time it takes to perform a heavy rep at a given weight then your 1rm will be slightly higher. Again, just icing on the cake but when lifters cut out the dynamic effort work they more often than not do not progress at the same rates and notice a slight decrease in performance. Hopefully one day someone will put PROPERLY applied Conjugate training on the map but unfortunately the system tends to attract mostly dumb meatheads who just want to look and feel tough like their westside heros and or take the go hard or go home mindset and completely miss the point of the program.
Always open to having my mind changed by someone who, as you put it, hopefully comes along and properly applies the principles in a way we haven't seen before
@@OfficialTeamOutlierAppreciate the open mindedness. I do understand the reasons why most people think poorly of the system. The dumb training and the cringe over the top try hard personalities of most of its followers drive most people away and rightfully so. A big pitfall of Conjugate is it is a complex system that requires a tremendous amount of training knowledge to self-program. All these variables make the program very easy to screw up and just one area of performance being trained improperly can wreck the entire system. I myself originally fell in love with conjugate but myself did not initially get the best results because I was doing many things incorrectly. I held the same positions you did for many years until I actually saw the rapid increases in both size and strength from athletes who switched from more traditional strength / powerlifting training to an intelligently put together Conjugate system. They also accomplished these things all while getting less beat up, reducing their fatigue levels and improving their athleticism significantly. Training is also more fun which inevitably will become more and more important the longer you train in order to reduce staleness and keep you from burning out mentally. I still believe traditional methods do work and may even be more optimal for lifters just starting out but the stronger you get the more important efficiency, recovery and variation will become in order to minimize fatigue and continue progressing to higher levels of strength while keeping your body injury free and staying motivated to keep training hard.