Thank you, Professor Habtamu for clarifying the Ethiopian accidental 1966 E.C revolution. You are very true about the hard work of respected King Haileselassie for Ethiopia.
Professor Habtamu has been reading Ethiopian History from social constructivist approach where as professor Mesai has been reading the Ethiopian history from the perspective of critical research method. The facts mentioned by both professor are absolutely right.
Hi Dr Mesay; I was your student at AAU when you came back from France. I was sent by one of military organizations at the time to attend. I started as soldier during Haileselassie and contnued as officer through Derg. Finished my college education during Derg & all through PHD till TPLF came to power & been a soldier through. Last was TPLF for my service after 2 decades. Yes, i was part of who selected some Derg members. You & Reeyot are right about history. I met you when you first came to USA. Love to discuss your correct view anytime. Great approach. Really great view
Prof Habtamu is going out of his ways to paint the past a rosy picture standing only short of a recommendation for us to go back and live in it. The intellectual honesty of Prof Messay is commendable. We need more open minded intellectuals like him if our country is ever to have any hope of moving forward by defying dishonest and reactionary elites like Prof Habtamu. The lady journalist is very professional, with interest only in bringing out the truth.
Please tell prof. Habtamu to read"ደቂቀ እስጢፋ" about our kings holiness. Never seen in Ethiopian history such hostility and barbetic action. He only want to see the good side, because he is free from pain.
Why Professor Mesay became optimistic about his country of origin?It shows me his weakness.It's better to find a solution.what the new generation can learn from him?
Professor Habtamu talks about Tsehai Enquselassie with passion, indeed he was responsible for some improvements in Gojjam notably in Debre Markos, using contribution from all over Gojjam he built what we called the ‘ሃውልት’. A prominent arc at the center of town. To me, such activities are similar to what Abiy Ahmed is doing today, building parks, palaces in Addis and tring to convince us he is making great progress for the lives of the people of Ethiopia. Of course, Tsehai is a governor of a region with less responsibility and power while Abiy, PM of a nation, who should try to solve life and death problems the people face rather than building arcs and parks. Having said that, I was shocked and saddened when Tsehai was killed by DERG.
Thank you Reiot for this debate. The story of pre-revilution Ethiopia was never told properly. I wish I could comment in Amharic fonts but I don't readily have it on my phone so I'll comment in English. Prof. Messay like some of the so called educated elites of the era is desperately trying to hide his own failure. Prof. Habtamu"s inqusitvness is admirable. As someone who lived in thst era, I share some of the points raised by Prof. Habtamu. The Emperor knew he is dealing with a well established Feudal system. That is why he was desperately trying to multiply the number of educated youth. Those who were sent abroad to study and come back were explicitly told by the Emperor to come back and change their communities socially, economically and politically. The educated elite chose to remain in Addis and abandoned their people. Most of those people try to hide their shame by blaming the Emperor. Change in Ethiopia was slow but the efucated elite did nothing to change this and never assisted the Empetor. 1
On the land issue - the Emperor knew there was suffient arable land and came up with new programs. Please read Dejazmach' s book. A dedicated ministry was created to facilitate reform while another ministry was working on land reform. To assist this process, participation in the parlamient was being actively supported by Emperor. So much so, he was encouraging teachers to join the parliament during the 1963EC elections. One can check the changes that enabled this and the composition of that parliament as well. BTW, sharecropping is a global phenomenon and one can even find such arrangements in USA. But, the Emperor was looking at an even better solution for his people by giving them their own land to farm and develop. People avoid talking about these things. 2
On centralization - the traditional regional rulers were not changing the lives of their people. Therefore, the Emperor thought having modern centralized administrative arrangements could be beneficial. Why is this wrong? 3
On Eritrea - I agree with the facts shared by Prof. Habtamu. However, the point raised by Prof. Messay regarding devolved power involving Eritreans is correct. The resumption of armed struggle may have affected the Emperor's actions in this regard. 4
On hiding the draught - the ministers did try to hide initially and when the Emperor noticed those camping outside Addis, they told him those are people affected by the Cholera outbreak (which was happening at the same time) and that they were being kept in camps outside the city. He was only informed about the devastation after several people died. He was unaware until very late. 5
On social relations - as indicated above, the Emperor really wanted social relations to improve and wanted involvement and participation of all citizens. That was why he was going to all communities and requesting local leaders to give him their children so that he can educate them and send them back to empower their communities. None of those educated elite wanted to go back to their communities. They chose to remain in cities. Prof. Messay asks where is the modernization? Who does he think can do that? Without the active participation of the educated elite, change in this area was likely to be slow and Messay seems to miss this point. That is the shame of that generation and that elite does not admit it to this day.
The feudal System of Ethiopian did alot as Professor Habtamu said , to keep itself in power and to maintain its power, but ignored the majority of the people. They did not care for the majority. The situation is as Professor Mesay Kebede explained. I do not why Professor Habtamu tried to ignore the reality.
Habtamu is an interested right wing activist. He has to sell the “failures” of the revolution to his erstwhile right wing followers who are butt hurt by ethnocentric destructive nationalists. For Habtamu even a self declared rightist like Eskinder is not acceptable.
Professor Habtamu disregarded the drought that occurred in Wollo in the 1970s, neglecting the anxiety and suffering of its people. Furthermore, Habtamu, driven by envy, encouraged others to destroy the property of Ledetu in Wollo-a reckless and harmful stance. Ledetu, a respected politician, is known for his courage in engaging with individuals who hold completely opposing views. Unlike Habtamu, who fixates on personal criticism rather than substantive issues, Ledetu’s focus has always been on addressing the core elements of the debate. His humility and exemplary conduct have set a high standard in Ethiopian politics. Throughout his career, Ledetu has confronted unfounded attacks and challenged aggressive, ignorant views rooted in jealousy. Despite attempts to defame him, Ledetu remains a steadfast advocate for rational discourse, freedom of conscience, individual liberty, and a free press. He has consistently championed the establishment of a legal system that upholds the people’s right to participate in choosing their government at all levels.
It's not only 50years ago I think the problem is the way creation of Ethiopia we can go back 500years ago zerayakob era the way dekike Estfanos brutally....
Professor Habtamu consistently mentions about all the laws passed by Haile Selassie regime on land reform with no sufficient presentation on the servitude life lived by ‘ጭሰኛ’ farmers. Professor Habtamu also ridiculed the students for not knowing anything about the ‘ጭሰኛ ስርአት’. Most of us students who were sent to countryside for ‘እድገት በህብረት’ have seen it first hand. In addition, some of the students came from these areas with first hand knowledge of the servitude. His insistence on the laws passed by Haile Sellasie regime rather than what is implemented on the ground for the lives of the poor farmers is akin to a young professor 50 years from now reading the EPRDF/PP constitution and claiming how much freedom the people of Ethiopia have enjoyed from 1991 to 2024!
After an assassination attempt by Eritreans in Harare on Colonel Mengistu he was interviewed by the BBC's focus on Africa and he said "There was no viable organized group to assume power other than the military " so be it the student movement or the clandestine political groups mushroomed at that time were not ripe.
The only thing that I agree with prof. Habtamu is that the king has no appetite for change b/c he has no desire to directly collide with the church’s backward outlook of the system. That is exactly why the revolution came into existence.
Prof. Mesay's way of discussing is disruptive and a bit emotional. I would have expected a more civil and orderly approach for an intellectual like him.
It was worse in Wollo. More worse than the southern part of Ethiopia. Majority Wollo farmers land was taken and given to the emperor supporters. 95% of indigenous farmers were tenants and treated inhumanly during the emperor monarch’s era.
Professor Habtamu Tegenen attempted to alter the 1966 Revelation in Ethiopia to fit his own version of events. I wish I could make you happy by moving heaven and earth. I'm sorry.
Why are we not discussing about the current situations where Amharas are suffering continuously marginalized and murdered after contributing so much to the country. Why are we not giving support and guidance to our people that’s fighting the Oromo’s fascist regime!
The whole issue is so called “prof, Drs” still get attention, please this folks need to be put in their place.they are paper tigers. They are part of the problem. The student body was mislead to raise the issue and this issues were never Ethiopian people issue. The people who mislead the society are still accountable.
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I really appreciate prof Habtamu professionalism and keen to learn from others … thank you
He couldn’t even defend his own arguments lol 😂😂
Thank you, Professor Habtamu for clarifying the Ethiopian accidental 1966 E.C revolution. You are very true about the hard work of respected King Haileselassie for Ethiopia.
ፕ/ሮ መሳይ በእውነት በስሜት እና አንዴ ከተናገርኩ አይመልሰኝ አይነት የዘመናቸው አስተሳሰብ እንጂ ምሁርነትዎን የሚመጥን ትንተና ሲሰጡ አይታዩም፣ ያሉ እውነቶችን እንኳን በቅጡ ለመዳሰስ አልፈለጉም፣ እንደ እውነቱ ከሆኑ ንጉሱ እያመጡት የነበረው ትራንፎርሜሽን በተለይ በመጨረሻዎቹ ጥቂት ዓመታ የሚያስቆጭ እና ይህ በእነ አሜሪካ ግልጽ ጣልቃ ገብነት በተለይ ወደ ቀድሞው ሶቭየት ለትብብር ማድላታቸው የዚህ ሰለባ መሆናቸው፣ አብዩቱን ብቻ ሳይሆን የሰሜኑን ችግር በማባባስ ብሎም በግልጽ በመደገፍ እድሎች እንዲበላችሱ መሆናቸውን ማረጋገጥ ይቻላል
I like professor Habtamu's calm and focused approach 😅
ፕሮፌሰር መሳይ ኢትዮጵያ ውሰጥ የኖሩ አይመስለኝም። ለምን እውነቱን ያጣምማሉ። ብዙዎች በዚያ ዘመን ነበርን። የተማሪው ቅዠት የፈጠረው ነው አሁንም ከዚያ ቅዠት አልወጣንም።
ፕሮፌስር ሃብታሙ ለኔ በፍፁም በፍፁም አልተመቸኝም ያ ትውልድን ለመተቸት ይህ ስው ብቅ ነው ብዬ አላምንም ያ ዳግም በኢትዮጵያ እስካሁን ያልተፈጠረ ትውልድ ንብረት በጣም ብዙ ያን የሚያጣቅስ ብርክት መፃፎች አሉ።
ፕሮፌሰር መሳይ እና የኔ አባቶች ችግራቸዉ የግራ ፓለቲካ የተለከፉ ፀበል ገብተዉ ቢጠመቁ ጋንንቱ እስከመጨረሻ ቢያስወግድት የተሻለ ነዉ እኔ የተወለድኩት ደቡብ ነዉ አያቶቼ ከመሬት ባለቤቶች ገዝተዉ ሜካናይዝት እርሻ ያረሱ ምስክር ኑዋሪ ነኝ ወንዱ አያቴ የቀድሞ ሰራዊት አባል ኮሪያ እና ኮንጎ በጀነራል አማን አምዶም መሪነት የዘመቱ የኦሮሞ ተወላጅ ናቸዉ በኖሩበት በቾ ርስት ያላቸዉ በአርበኝነት ወለጋ የ 1 ጋሻ መሬት በቀዳማዊ ኃይለስላሴ ተመርተዉ በሰላም አሥከባሪነት በተሠጣቸዉ ገንዘብ ሻሸመኔ አና አላባ መሬት ገዝተዉ በልጅነቴ እርሻ በመሔድ ቆንጆ እይወት ያየሁበት ትዝታ ዘመኔ ነዉ ድርቅ የሴት ዓያቴ ከጎንደር ስለሆች እርሷም በልጅነቷ ተሰደዉ ሕይወታቸዉን ላሊበላ ከእናቶ ጋር ተሠደዉ ሕይወታቸዉን በማትረፋቸዉ የነበራቸዉን ርስት ትተዉ በመሰደድ የኖሩባት ኢትዬጲያ ናት አገራችን ጦሥ ሆነባቸዉ ለንጉሡ የታሪክ ሙሁሩ ፕሮፌሰር አብታሙ እዉነታዉን በትክክል አሥቀምጦታል አኔ በተወለድኩባት ሐዋሳ ንጉሱ ትምህርት ቤቴ ድረስ በምጣት ጎብኝተዉ ያበረታቱን ትልቅ ሰዉ ናቸዉ::
ፕሮፌሰር ሀብታሙ እንደምሁር በመረጃና ጥናታዊ በሆነ መንገድ ማስረዳት ሲችል፣ መሳይ ግን ስሜታዊና ነጭናጫ የሆነ ግለሰብ ነው።
Prof Habtamu; you conducted research that strength what you thought, belief and want to be.
ይቅርታ ፕሮፌሰር መሳይ ጭልጥ ብሎ ስቷል እኛም የኖርንበትና የምናውቀውን ሁሉ የካደ ነው
ሥር ነቀል ! ሥራችንን ነው የነቀለው ሀገር ማፍረሱ የጀመረው 😢እዛ ጋ ነው ...መጥፎውን ቀይሮ ደህናውን መያዝ ይቻል ነበር
ፕ/ር መሳይ ተብዬው ከልደቱም ጋር ሲደርቅ አይቼዋለሁ....reason ብሎ ነገር አያውቅም...
Prof. Mesay is absolutely intuitive unlike what we expect him.
እኅቴ ርዕዮት በዚህ ውይይት የመንግሥት ሥልጣን አያያዝና አጠባበቅ እንዲሁም የየዕድገት ደረጃ አልተነሳም ሁሉም የየግል እምነታቸውን ነውየገለጹት ሌሎች ሰዎች ተጨማሪ ሐሳብ እንዲሰጡበት ብታደርጊ
Professor Habtamu has been reading Ethiopian History from social constructivist approach where as professor Mesai has been reading the Ethiopian history from the perspective of critical research method. The facts mentioned by both professor are absolutely right.
"የዛ ትውልድ" ሰዎች ግን ከእነሱ በላይ ሌላ አዋቂ የሌለ ፤ ምንም መስራት የማይችሉ ነገር ግን ሁሉንም የሚተቹ ፤ በጣም እራስ ወዳድ ፤ በጣም ሴረኛ፤ በጣም እልኸኛ መሆናቸው በብዙዎቹ የሚታይ ባህሪ ነው 😭😭
በደንብ ተረድተውታል ባለፈው ከልደቱ ጋ የተከራከረውን ስትሰማው ርዕዮተ ዓለሜ አይነካ ሲል ነበር
ግንኮ ይኸኛው ግን ፋራ ብጤ ነው😅
የዛትውልድበቀልተኝነትአሁንምአልጠፋም😂የሚገርመውኢህአዴግ ሲገባየኢህአፓቅሪቶችከወያኔጋርአራትኪሎሲደርሱብዙ ግፍሠርተዋል በግልምመንግሥትምሆነው😢አልፈውከሀገርወጥተውምUSA.Europe.የሀገርቤቱንሀንጎበርወሥደው ተፋጠውየኖሩናቸው😢የዛመዘዝለዚትውልድደርሶ😢መለብለብነውየሚያሣዝነው
ያኔ ካልነበርክና ስለዘመኑ ቢነግሩህና ልምዳቸውን ቢያጋሩህ እኔ እንጂ እናንተ አታውቁም የማለቱ ሞራል ከየት ይመጣልሃል?
ተባረኪ ርእዮት ሁሌ የምታቀርቢው ለትውልድ በተለይ ለመጭው ትውልድ እውነትን ለማስጨበጥ ነው፣ ዶ/ር መሳይ እንደገለጸው የተጻፈ ነገር ሁሉ እውነትን የያዘ ነው ለማለት ጠለቅ ያለ ምርምርና አንዳንዴም ውስጡ መኖርንም ይጠይቃል Thx
ፕሮፌሰር ሀብታሙ በመረጃ የተደገፈ አስተያየት ነው የምትሰጠው፣ፕሬፈሰር መሳይ ግን ጨርሶ በእልህና በንጉስ ጥላቻ ላይ የተመስረተና ግትርነት ብቻ ነው፣
Pro.Habtamu ❤
ፕሮፌሰር መሳይ ተሳስተዋል
በአፄ ኃይለስልሴ የተሰራው መሰረት በዛው ቢቀጠል ኖሮ ያ ትውልድ ባያደንቅፈው ኖሮ
ታላቅ እንሆን ነበር
ወይ ታላቅ!
የፕሮፌሰሩ ግትር አቆም ውይይቱን ከመርህ የዘለለ ያደርገዎል
ምንም ሰፈራቸውን እንኳ መረደት የማይችሉ ወጣቶች በመጽሐፍና በወረ አገር ለመለወጥ የተነሡ፣ የተሠጣቸው መጽሐፍና የሐሰት ትንተና መሠረቱን እንኳ መመርመር የማይችሉ፣ አገር ማለት ምን እንደሆነ የማይረዱ የሲአይኤ የሞሳድና የኬጄቪ መሣሪያ በመሆን አገራችንን እዚህ ቅርቃር ውስጥ ከተው፣ አሁን እንኳ ስህተታቸውን አይቀበሉም።
የሚገርመውእርሱነው ዛሬም60.70ዓመታቸውምእኛየያዝነውመንገድትክክልነበር ብለውሁሉምተቸክለውቀርተዋል።ብዙየሚደንቅትግልቢያረጉም።ሚዛኑንግንአሥበልተውተበታትነዋል
በቅርቡ መ/ቃ ታደሰ ቴሌ ሳልቫኖ ያሳተመው መጽሐፍ ላይ በግል እና በፎቶ ጭምር እንዲሁም ከመከላከያ ሚኒስቴር አርካይቭ አያይዞ ይሳተመው መጽሐፍ ላይ የሲአይኤን እና የግብጽን ሚና በግልጽ ያስቀምጣል።
ዶ/ር ሀብታሙ ዕዉቀት ሳያንሰዉ በራስ መተማመን አልነበረዉም ዶ/ር መሳይ ግን አሁንም በ 60 ዎቹ አስተሳሰብ ተቸክሎ እንደቀረ ነዉ በአጠቃላይ እነዚህ ሁለት ታላላቅ ምሁራን ካደረጉት ውይይት የጠበቅኩትን አላገኘሁም
Bravo D.r Habtamu.
Hi Dr Mesay; I was your student at AAU when you came back from France. I was sent by one of military organizations at the time to attend. I started as soldier during Haileselassie and contnued as officer through Derg. Finished my college education during Derg & all through PHD till TPLF came to power & been a soldier through. Last was TPLF for my service after 2 decades. Yes, i was part of who selected some Derg members. You & Reeyot are right about history. I met you when you first came to USA. Love to discuss your correct view anytime. Great approach. Really great view
ማን ያውራ የነበረ ይባላል:: ሐብታሙ አጀንዳ ያለው "ምሑር" ነው::
Prof Habtamu is going out of his ways to paint the past a rosy picture standing only short of a recommendation for us to go back and live in it.
The intellectual honesty of Prof Messay is commendable. We need more open minded intellectuals like him if our country is ever to have any hope of moving forward by defying dishonest and reactionary elites like Prof Habtamu.
The lady journalist is very professional, with interest only in bringing out the truth.
centrilization ኃጢያት ያደረገው ማነው ?
ኢትዮጵያ አብዯት ባታደርግ ኖሮ ጃንሆይን በተቃውሞ እይተገለፀ በሂደት ቢጠበቅ ኖሮ ቢያንስ ድህነትና የሰሩትን ባለማፍረስ እርምጃ ይኖር ነበር የጃንሆይን ተራማጅነት አለመረዳታችን ነው የለውጥም የመቆምም ሳንይዝ እራቁት የቀረነው የሚል ሀሳብ ነው ያለኝ
ድሮም ፕሮፌሰር መስፍን ብልውታል የዛ ዘመን ሰዎች መፅሀፍን ከልባዱ አልፈው አያንቡም ብለዋል
ፕሮፌሰር ሃብታሙ ያን ትውልድ ማሳመን አይቻልም ፣አትድከም።
Please tell prof. Habtamu to read"ደቂቀ እስጢፋ" about our kings holiness. Never seen in Ethiopian history such hostility and barbetic action. He only want to see the good side, because he is free from pain.
ፕሮፈሰር ተብለዉ መዋቨት ነዉር ነዉ.
ጭሰኝነት በሰሜንም ነበረ.
ሳያዉቁ ከሆነም አለመናገሩ ይሻል ነበር.
Why Professor Mesay became optimistic about his country of origin?It shows me his weakness.It's better to find a solution.what the new generation can learn from him?
ፕሮፌሰር መሳይ እንደ ሙህር ቢከራከሩ
ፕሮ ሀብታሙ የሚያወሩትን አያውቁም ምንም ከዚህ ሰው ጋር መነጋገር ከንቱ ነው። የሌለ የራሱን ታሪክ ነው የሚያወራው
ፕሮግራም ሀብታሙ መጀመሪያ እስቲ የ18ኛው አስተሳሰብህን ከውስጥህ አፅዳው።
መቼስ ፊደል የቆጠረ መሀይም እንደማየት የሚቀፍ ነገር የለም።
እሳቸው ምን እንደሚያናዳቸው እላቅም ... እሱ እያለው ያለ ለውጡ ያመጣው መጥፎ እንጂ ጥሩ አይደለም ... that is fact
Professor Habtamu talks about Tsehai Enquselassie with passion, indeed he was responsible for some improvements in Gojjam notably in Debre Markos, using contribution from all over Gojjam he built what we called the ‘ሃውልት’. A prominent arc at the center of town. To me, such activities are similar to what Abiy Ahmed is doing today, building parks, palaces in Addis and tring to convince us he is making great progress for the lives of the people of Ethiopia. Of course, Tsehai is a governor of a region with less responsibility and power while Abiy, PM of a nation, who should try to solve life and death problems the people face rather than building arcs and parks.
Having said that, I was shocked and saddened when Tsehai was killed by DERG.
he was a feudal and veteran of fighting Italian fascist in Shewa along with his notable brothers
ሰላም wooooow🎉🎉🎉
አገራችን ከለውጡ በፊተ አሰከፊ በሆነ የድህነት ሁኔታ ላይ ነበረች። ድህነቱ ደግሞ ዘር የለየ አልነበረም። እኔ ለምሳሌ ከሐረርጌ ክፍለ ሀገር ከድሬዳዋ ከተማ ነኝ፤ ድሬዳዋ ሁሉም የሚኖሩባት diversified የሆነች ከተማ ነች።
እውነት ለመናገር ከአማራው በሰተቀር ኦሮሞው ፣ አደሬው ፣ ሶማሌውና ሌላው በተሻለ የኢኮኖሚ ደረጃ ነበር ይኖር የነበረው። ደህና ኑሮ የሚኖረው ከመሃል መንግስት ድጋፍ ወይም አድሎ ተደርጎለት አልነበረም ፤ it was just sheer luck. ነው ቢባል ማጋነን አይሆንም።
የተማረው ክፍል የአገሩና የሕዝቡ ሗላ ቀርነት ስላስጨነቀው አማራ ኦሮሞ ትግሬ ሳይሉ ለውጥ ለማምጣት በአንድነት ተነስተው እየታገሉ እያለ የብሔር የሚል እንቅሥቃሴ የሚባል ተጀምሮ ነገሮች አላማቸውን ስተው ዛሬ የደረስንበት ደርሰናል። የኢትዮጵያ ጠላት በማያሳስት መንገድ የብሔር እንቅስቃሴ ነው።
Yeshimagilea kelal
ገለልተኛና "ከፍትወት" ነጻ አመለካከት ነው ከታሪክ ለመማር የሚጠቅመን።
Patriotism በንጉሱ ዘመን ከፍታ ላይ ነበር
እኔም ከአባቴ የራሱ ህይወት የማውቀው ሰሜን ሸዋ በሙሉ መሬት ያልነበረው (ባለርስት ያልሆነ) ጭሰኛ መሬት ያገኝ የነበረው በጭሰኝነት ለባለርስት ገብቶ መሬቱን እያረሰ አምርቶም ሲሶም ርቦም እያካፈለ ነው። ከዚያ ውጪ መሬት ሊገኝ የሚችለው አቅም ካለ ከባለ ርስት በገንዘብ በመግዛት ወይም በጋብቻ ነው። ርስት አይሸጥም ነበር የሚለው ሃሳብ ከእውነታው ጋር እንዴት ነው የሚታረቀው?
Riyot civilized modern lady waw yimachesh.
Thank you Reiot for this debate. The story of pre-revilution Ethiopia was never told properly. I wish I could comment in Amharic fonts but I don't readily have it on my phone so I'll comment in English.
Prof. Messay like some of the so called educated elites of the era is desperately trying to hide his own failure.
Prof. Habtamu"s inqusitvness is admirable. As someone who lived in thst era, I share some of the points raised by Prof. Habtamu.
The Emperor knew he is dealing with a well established Feudal system. That is why he was desperately trying to multiply the number of educated youth. Those who were sent abroad to study and come back were explicitly told by the Emperor to come back and change their communities socially, economically and politically. The educated elite chose to remain in Addis and abandoned their people. Most of those people try to hide their shame by blaming the Emperor. Change in Ethiopia was slow but the efucated elite did nothing to change this and never assisted the Empetor. 1
On the land issue - the Emperor knew there was suffient arable land and came up with new programs. Please read Dejazmach' s book. A dedicated ministry was created to facilitate reform while another ministry was working on land reform. To assist this process, participation in the parlamient was being actively supported by Emperor. So much so, he was encouraging teachers to join the parliament during the 1963EC elections. One can check the changes that enabled this and the composition of that parliament as well. BTW, sharecropping is a global phenomenon and one can even find such arrangements in USA. But, the Emperor was looking at an even better solution for his people by giving them their own land to farm and develop. People avoid talking about these things. 2
On centralization - the traditional regional rulers were not changing the lives of their people. Therefore, the Emperor thought having modern centralized administrative arrangements could be beneficial. Why is this wrong? 3
On Eritrea - I agree with the facts shared by Prof. Habtamu. However, the point raised by Prof. Messay regarding devolved power involving Eritreans is correct. The resumption of armed struggle may have affected the Emperor's actions in this regard. 4
On hiding the draught - the ministers did try to hide initially and when the Emperor noticed those camping outside Addis, they told him those are people affected by the Cholera outbreak (which was happening at the same time) and that they were being kept in camps outside the city. He was only informed about the devastation after several people died. He was unaware until very late. 5
On social relations - as indicated above, the Emperor really wanted social relations to improve and wanted involvement and participation of all citizens. That was why he was going to all communities and requesting local leaders to give him their children so that he can educate them and send them back to empower their communities. None of those educated elite wanted to go back to their communities. They chose to remain in cities.
Prof. Messay asks where is the modernization? Who does he think can do that? Without the active participation of the educated elite, change in this area was likely to be slow and Messay seems to miss this point. That is the shame of that generation and that elite does not admit it to this day.
He Pro Habbtamu has preapare and spit the fact .
ማን ይመስክር የነበረ ማን ያርዳ የቀበረ ነበር ግን አዲስ የተጀመረው ኃይሌሥላሤን ቅዱስ ለማድረግ የተጀመረ ዘመቻ አለ ። እኔ ልጅ ሆኜ ሰሜንንም ደቡብንም አይችያለሁ እና እውነትን ማዛባት ጥሩ አይደለም
The feudal System of Ethiopian did alot as Professor Habtamu said , to keep itself in power and to maintain its power, but ignored the majority of the people. They did not care for the majority. The situation is as Professor Mesay Kebede explained. I do not why Professor Habtamu tried to ignore the reality.
Habtamu is an interested right wing activist. He has to sell the “failures” of the revolution to his erstwhile right wing followers who are butt hurt by ethnocentric destructive nationalists. For Habtamu even a self declared rightist like Eskinder is not acceptable.
ርዮት አንድ ጥያቄ አለኝ ለፕሮፌሰር መሳይ: እሳቸው የሚመኙት Democracy በሚኖሪበት አሜሪካ failed አድርጓል። እሺ አብዮቱ እንደማይቀር ተናግረው ነበር ታድያ ከአብዮቱ ምን ተገኘ? የታገላቹበት ዓላማ የት ደረሰ? ጥያቄዎቹስ ተመልሰዋል ወይ?
ለሌላ ጊዜ አቻምየለህ አቅርቢልን ከፕሮፌሰር መሳይ ጋር Prof.Habt humble ነው።
በተረፈ ያ ትውልድ በውሸት ታሪክ ታግሎ ራሱ ያጠፋ ሀገሪቷን መቀመቅ ውስጥ የከተተ ትውልድ ነው።
Prof Mesay been tooo angry for every discussion
Yesss
ፕሮፌሰር መሳይ አላናግር አልክሳ ?
habtamu Shewanii Ayaqim washeraa Naber.
Professor Habtamu disregarded the drought that occurred in Wollo in the 1970s, neglecting the anxiety and suffering of its people. Furthermore, Habtamu, driven by envy, encouraged others to destroy the property of Ledetu in Wollo-a reckless and harmful stance.
Ledetu, a respected politician, is known for his courage in engaging with individuals who hold completely opposing views. Unlike Habtamu, who fixates on personal criticism rather than substantive issues, Ledetu’s focus has always been on addressing the core elements of the debate. His humility and exemplary conduct have set a high standard in Ethiopian politics.
Throughout his career, Ledetu has confronted unfounded attacks and challenged aggressive, ignorant views rooted in jealousy. Despite attempts to defame him, Ledetu remains a steadfast advocate for rational discourse, freedom of conscience, individual liberty, and a free press. He has consistently championed the establishment of a legal system that upholds the people’s right to participate in choosing their government at all levels.
It's not only 50years ago I think the problem is the way creation of Ethiopia we can go back 500years ago zerayakob era the way dekike Estfanos brutally....
የወደብ ባለቤት ያደረረገንን መሪ መተቸት አይከብድም? pro.mesay
አቶ ሀብታሙ የዞረበት የአማርኛ አሰተማሪ ነው የሚመሰለው። በይመሰለኛል በግምት ነው የሚያወራው ያሳዝናል
Professor Habtamu consistently mentions about all the laws passed by Haile Selassie regime on land reform with no sufficient presentation on the servitude life lived by ‘ጭሰኛ’ farmers. Professor Habtamu also ridiculed the students for not knowing anything about the ‘ጭሰኛ ስርአት’. Most of us students who were sent to countryside for ‘እድገት በህብረት’ have seen it first hand. In addition, some of the students came from these areas with first hand knowledge of the servitude.
His insistence on the laws passed by Haile Sellasie regime rather than what is implemented on the ground for the lives of the poor farmers is akin to a young professor 50 years from now reading the EPRDF/PP constitution and claiming how much freedom the people of Ethiopia have enjoyed from 1991 to 2024!
ከዛሬ በኋላ ዲያቆን ሀብታሙ ተገኝ ብዬዎታለሁ።
ወይ መዘባረቅ😋
ወይ መንበዛበዝ
Since Professor Mesai follows critical approach he does not show willingness to recognize new ideas.
I appreciate Professor Messay'd patience to debate with politically motivated and Amhara nationalist Prof. Habtamu.
LeHabte Ethiopia Gonderna Gojam new.
ንጉሱ ወጣቱን ባያስተምሩ ኑሮ አብዮት ውስጥ አገረቱ አትገባም ነበር ከተባለ በፕ/ር መሳይ አስተያየት ንጉሱ ምክንያት ናቸው ማለት ይቻላል
After an assassination attempt by Eritreans in Harare on Colonel Mengistu he was interviewed by the BBC's focus on Africa and he said "There was no viable organized group to assume power other than the military " so be it the student movement or the clandestine political groups mushroomed at that time were not ripe.
የ1953ቱ የመፈንቅለ መንግሥቱ ዋንኛ ምክንያት በእዚያ አመት የኤርትራ ፓርላማ ፈርሶ በዘውዱ ሥርዓት የሚቀላቀልበት ጊዜ ስለነበር ያን ለመቀልበስ ታስቦ ነው::
ነብሳቸውን ይማረውና ፕሮፌስርሰር መስፍን ከላይ ሆነው ቢያዳምጡት እረጅም አርጩሜያቸው ( ብዕራቸው) እንዴት አድርጎ ይህን የውሸት ክምር ደህና አድርገው ያደባዩልን ነበር !! ጉድ ነው ( ገርማሜ ና መንግስቱ የግብፅ ) ተቀጣሪ ብሎ ሲል እለማፈሩ)
ግንፍንጮችአሉ 1953ኩል መዘዝየሚለውንመፅሐፍመመርመርነው
ዜጋ በክስታንኛ አሁንም ደሀ ማለት ነው።
Ewnit new p rs
The only thing that I agree with prof. Habtamu is that the king has no appetite for change b/c he has no desire to directly collide with the church’s backward outlook of the system. That is exactly why the revolution came into existence.
Prof. Mesay's way of discussing is disruptive and a bit emotional. I would have expected a more civil and orderly approach for an intellectual like him.
A military navigational trip during the day of cue from Egypt without awareness of Ethiopian government’s.Very suspicious!
እንዲህ አይነት ጭፍን ከዘመኑ አንፃር ከመፈረጅ እንዲሁ ጥላቻን መሰረት ያደረገ ነገር ነዉ እሚቀባጥሩት እንዲህ አይነቶቹ ተማርን ተብዬ አሁን መፍቴ ከመቀየስ የቀድሞዉን መኮነን ፕሮፌሰር ሐብታሙ ከነዚጋር ግዜህን አታጥፋ ባለፈዉ ግን እስክንድር ላይ የተነሳዉ ቅር አሰኝቶኛል
በራራ
ሁለቱ የተለያየ የእሳቤ ደረጃ ላይ ያሉ ሰዎች ናቸው። ስለ አብዮት ምንም አይነት ንባብና ግንዛቤ የሌለውን ሃብታሙ ስለ ጎጃምና እርባና ቢስ በሆኑ ሰነዶች ጊዜውን ባይጨርሰው ጥሩ ነበር :: ፕ/ር መሳይ በእንዲህ አይነት የእሳቤ ልዩነት ውስጥ ለውይይት መቀመጦት ራሱ ይገርማል ! የታሪክ ሙህር ተብዮዎች ተባለን ብቻ ውሰደው ለመሟገት ያላቸው ፍላጎት እና ድፍርት ብቻ ናቸው ያላቸው።
ፕ/ር መሳይ አብዮት ላይ እጅግ ውጤታማ ስራ የሰሩ ታላቅ ምሁር ናቸው። የፃፏቸውን መፅሃፎች ላይ ፕ/ር ሃብታሙ ሃሳብ መስጠት ይቅርና ስለመኖራቸው የሚያውቁ አይመስለኝም ::
ኘሮፌሰር ሀብታሙ በዚያ ትውልድ ግልብ አብዮትና የሀሰት ትርክት ትክክል እንዳልነበረ በመረጃ እና በማስረጃ በቂ ክርክር አቅርቧል ይበል የሚያሰኝ ነው
Uuuu Habte komchew.Shewan ....
ሸባው እንደባይደን እያንቀላፋ ነው!ይዘባርቃል!ፕሮ.ሀብታሙ በጣም በሳል ሰው ነህ
👋
It was worse in Wollo. More worse than the southern part of Ethiopia. Majority Wollo farmers land was taken and given to the emperor supporters. 95% of indigenous farmers were tenants and treated inhumanly during the emperor monarch’s era.
ፕሮፌሰር ቅጽል ስም ነው ወይስ ሌላ ነገር ነው
ይህ አሳፋሪ ሰዉየ ሰዉ በፖለቲካ አመለካከቱ ይገደል ይላል አ። አይ ፕሮፊሰር
ሶቪየቶቹ በኢትዮጽያ ሶማልያ ጦርነት ግዜ ሲመጡ የታዘቡት ፕሮፌሰር መሳይ እንዳስቀመጡት ነው። በበቁ ሁኔታ አገር ለማስጠበቅ የሚችል በመሳርያም ሆነ በሰራዊት ደረጃ እንዳልነበረን ገምግመዋል።
Pro Habtamu Evidenced documents ላይ ብንነጋገር ጥሩ ነው በእድገት በሕብረት ዘምተናል ያን ጊዜ ኖረናል Pro Messay የሚለው ሜክ ሴንስ
የሶቪየቶቹ መረጃ እንደማናገረው ኃይለሥላሴ ሲወርዱ 90%የኢትዮጵያ ህዝብ ማንበብ እና መፃፍ አይችልም ነበር። ኮሎ መንግስቱ ሥልጣን ሲለቁ 90%የሚሆነው ህዝብ መፃፍ እና ማንበብ ይችል ነበር
Professor Habtamu Tegenen attempted to alter the 1966 Revelation in Ethiopia to fit his own version of events. I wish I could make you happy by moving heaven and earth. I'm sorry.
ፕሮፌሰሩ የማያውቀውን ሲቀባር ....
Which one both are Professors
ፕሮፌሰር ሀብታሙ ዶ/ር አስፋው ወሰን እስራት ካሳ የጻፉትን "King of Kings: The Triumph & Tragedy of Emperor Hails Selassie I of Ethiopia የሚለውን መጽሐፍ ቢመለከተው መልካም ነው። ዶ/ር አስፋው ወሰን እስራት ካሳ ለንጉሠ ነገሥቱ አጎት ልጅ ቀዳማዊ ኃይለ ሥላሴ ፍፁም የሆነ ሥልጣናቸውን ለልጅ ልጆቻቸውም ትንሽም እንኳን ለማካፈልም ሆነ ህገመንግስታዊ ሞናርክ ለመሆን ፈቃደኛ እንዳልነበሩ ከአባታቸው ልዑል አሥራተ ካሣን ምስክርነት በመጥቀስ ጽፎታል። ሌላም በርካታ መረጃዎች ማቅረብ ይችላል። ለአብዮቱ አይቀሬነት የንጉሠ ነገሥቱ ሥርዓት በራሱ የፈረደ ሥርዓት ነበር።
ነገሩን አሁንም2010ደግመነዋል ጥቂትወጣቶችበብሔርተመርተው ሀገሩንአመሡትፒሪታዎችመንግሥትምግራገብቶትተሽመድምዶ😢መጨረሻላይብልጦችለውጥብለውሥልጣኑንተቆጣጠሩት
Why are we not discussing about the current situations where Amharas are suffering continuously marginalized and murdered after contributing so much to the country. Why are we not giving support and guidance to our people that’s fighting the Oromo’s fascist regime!
መሳይ ድሮ እና ዘንድሮ አታመሳስሉ
ፕሮፌሰር ነው ወይስ ዳቆን ሀብታሙ እያወራ ያለው ታሪክ ሳይሆን ትርክት ነው ሀብታሙ ተብዬው እያወራ ያለው አጀንዳ ይዞ ነው የሚያወራው ።
Professor Mesi, this is not your place. Habtemu you are doomed
With respect it is not correct to compare The North land system to the South prof Habetamu
እንዴ ፕሮፌሰር መሳይ በስልክ ያሉት ያኔ የፓርላማ አባላት ሞባይል ነበራቸው እያሉን ነው ውይስ በጣት የሚቆጠር ስልኮችን በአንዳንድ ተቋማት ያሉትን ነው የሚሉት ... በምን ጊዜ የደነቆረ ... እንዳይሆን
ሃብት ያለው በቤቱ ይኖረዋል::
Edeya, ahun tewagu tebale enje tarik awru altebalem. It's time to fighting, not talking about history. History is not victory
The whole issue is so called “prof, Drs” still get attention, please this folks need to be put in their place.they are paper tigers. They are part of the problem. The student body was mislead to raise the issue and this issues were never Ethiopian people issue. The people who mislead the society are still accountable.
እነደንቆሮ ናቸው ያሉት?
7 bate tekotro yeguedelou Yaletown dedeb learned makereb kehbrete sebou marke
በመሠረቱ ከዚህ የሁለት ምሑሮች ውይይት ያስተዋልሁት ምሑርን ለማመን ከንቱ እንደሆነ ነው ምክንያቱም የፕሮፌሰር ሐብታሙ ንግግርና ምልከታ ከገሐድ ዕውነት ያፈነገጠ ተራ መንቻካ አቋም ነው። ሲጀመር ያልኖረበትን አወድሶ ወይም አራክሶ ማውራት አሳኝ ነው። በእኝህን ሰውዬ ተጻፉና ወደፊት የሚጻፉ መጽሐፎች ማንበብ ጊዜ ማባክን ይመስለኛል። ፕሮፌሰር መሳይ ክብር ይስጥልን። ከሁሉም በላይ ታግሰው ለመወያየት በመፍቀድዎ።