When I got saved I never heard of a rapture. I was completely shocked when I heard of the idea and NEVER came to that assumption with my personal studying
@@northtrader "Harpazo" means to be caught up in the Spirit, not bodily. This took place when Christ was revealed in 70AD. You're right. This is a more recent teaching. There is no such thing as a rapture.
It’s so funny how everyone is still trying to prove their point by wise and crafty “interpretations”. I’m so thankful for people like Heiser that just give the options and make it clear that we just don’t know and most likely aren’t supposed to know. But people love to think they’re right. Just accept that you might be right but also might be wrong. Be ready, walk with the Lord, pray without ceasing, stay in His Word… and whatever happens and however it happens if you were the one who “got it right”.. maybe Jesus will give you a nice trophy and we can all take a break mid-eternity and say “congrats we are in awe of your vast wisdom and knowledge.” … Anyway.. anyone want to take a break from the eschatology argument, concern ourselves with nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified and go make some disciples? You know.. that thing… the.. thee uhh.. oh ya!! The great commission!
If we are not suppose to know, then why would it be in the scriptures? I think it is up to us to at least search the scriptures to try to understand, with the help of the Holy Spirit. By the way, the great commission was fulfilled with the apostles.
@@Stan-l4j3ni think what he’s saying partly anyway is- while believers are busy with their heads in scripture trying to understand when the rapture happens and how all the end time stuff rolls out, the ‘great commission’ is taking a backseat, being neglected. And since there is so much debate about it, there’s not doubt that some of it is right and some of it is wrong and people get hurt , turned off altogether or discouraged- quite the opposite of what Jesus wants us to do. 😊
If we take the scripture figuratively we will be closer to the truth but if we read it literally we box ourselves in a corner. We need both in the proper amount to come closer understand .
I don't see the conflict between the rapture and the second coming. Paul said that we meet Him in the air, it doesn't say anything about Him coming down to earth.
@@linkhudson9025 if you understood Hebrew culture, you always go out to meet someone of importance than escort them back to earth we will live. A new heaven and earth. The temple was where heaven and earth met. Now we are the temple snd Christ will visibly dwell amongst us on a perfected earth. He did not create earth just to throw it away. He loves the world (cosmos). He is going to restore it.
I will add that there’s an assumption being made about ‘what the air is’….. (the unseen realm). The air isn’t literally where I lost my helium balloon.
But the earth is his footstool and the heavens his throne. So this is the understanding of in him we live and have our being. For I am persuaded that neither life nor death can separate us from the love of God in Jesus. The lord God omnipotent.
So odd that many consider "rapture" to be the "Blessed Hope". When it's so obvious that the Blessed Hope is the Appearing of Our Lord and Saviour. In other words, the blessed hope isn't only for the very last batch of saints in church-age history, but for every single saint throughout all history, starting with Abel. But how you encounter that Blessed Hope, by rising from the grave, or being changed in the twinkling of an eye, is really secondary. THE LORD is the blessed hope, NOT the fact of avoiding a few bad years of world history..
What Michael points out is that it is important to rightly divide the scriptures. Jesus, reading from the scrolls, stopped at a comma and closed it. The remainder of the sentence was reserved for 2,000 years later. Understanding prophecy is not just an intellectual endeavor. It is walking with God, submitting to The Word, and being infilled of the Spirit. We CANNOT “just figure it out”
Understanding prophecy actually is an intellectual endeavor. Dr Heiser is an Old Testament scholar, you can’t fully understand some of the New Testament and most of The Book of Revelation without knowing the Old Testament!
@@emfarfan edited my op to represent my intent … is not “just” an intellectual endeavor. My point is simple. Without complete and unconditional surrender to Creator God, any purely intellectual attempt to understand prophecy will lead to apostasy.
The never ending dispute right??. Just be ready!. Receive Jesus as savior before it's too late!. I know that when I pass I'll be raptured into the arms of Jesus!. That's all that matters. ❤❤❤❤😊
I've always said, whether it's the Rapture, natural death, or a nuclear blast, I'll be with Jesus. I'm a Pan-Tribber. It will all pan out in the end, ; )
My sole criticism on not caring which position one takes is this: belief in the preteib rapture accompanies the belief that Christians will not be subject to the revealing of antichrist and the mark of the beast. If pretrib rapture is wrong, and there are very few if no pretrib teachers to admit they might be wrong, this belief puts many pretribbers in line to take the mark and worship the beast because they've been conditioned to belief it cannot be the mark if they're still here on earth. Accordingly, we must care about their flawed position so that when times of great testing and distress come, they do not fall away and be forever lost.
@@BornAgain490 the mark of the beast can't be taken by accident. You can't trip over and accidentally not be a Christian anymore. Anyone who takes the mark takes it deliberately and knowing they are betraying Christ.
@@LastFellowship Professing Christians will apostacize and take the mark because they will be deceived. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
If anyone takes a mark on their forehead or right hand, then they weren't a believer to begin with. They would have to be deaf dumb and blind, to miss all the info about the Mark out there. And I think the Devil would insist on the worship that comes with the Mark. I mean he's not doing it just for giggles.
So the passage isn’t about “soul sleep”. It’s concerning those who are “asleep” when the thief in the night comes. So don’t be asleep spiritually. Be on guard for when the Lord comes.
he seems to be creating problems where none really exists for example seeing some sort of Need for 1st Corinthians 15's reference to death having to coincide with the destruction of death towards the end of the book of Revelation. if we raise from the dead death has no sting to us. The passage deals with the resolution of the issue of death for they that are Christ's. Also where would first century believers get this vague idea that the air means heaven or some sort of spiritual realm? It seems like he's reading in later concepts of popular theology from different eras back into the New Testament for his hypothetical interpretation.
No rapture- but what is true- & absolutely is that people want to be right! I was reassured that its OK not to know for sure- all I really care about is that Hes coming and I can be with Him. It doesnt matter if its on earth or a different realm because I cant begin to imagine either one. Trying to de code the future and end times makes me worried, confused, frustrated and obsessing on things I have no control over & He has not made clear
Les Feldick in his Bible study believes in a pre-tribulation rapture for the reason that Grace and Law need to be separate. Just as God instructed Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael away after the birth of Isaac so the children of Grace will need to be taken out before Israel again comes under Law
His view is missing some very important considerations. WHO is the passage addressing? The Jewish Christians or the Gentile Christians. The New Testament has the majority of content addressed to Jewish believers. People who were still sharing in the destiny of God's chosen nation. It's very much different outcome for Gentile believers. Most people (including Heiser) NEVER realize or address this.
I wish all other parts of this series had been presented this way: online. Anyway, I am toward being a 'Splitter,' which makes more sense and makes me more ready for his imminent coming. .
Friends.Actually where is Abel today --is he awake or asleep? is he clothed or unclothed?is he in glory or elsewhere?Same for the penitent thief, please!?EG.
There were 70 years between the first and the final coming so for the believer it is very much at home with the Lord and in our eternal clothes and dwelling.EG.There is NO extra Coming
Splitter makes the most sense to me also. The second coming will be expected (Rev 6:15-17). No one will be doubting. It will not be welcomed by all. 1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming with the only material resurrection for the saints which is on the last day, last trumpet (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6, 1 Cor 15:52). Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib rapture without a material resurrection. There is a flash of light and dead bodies (verse 37) when life seems normal (eating, drinking, etc.).
The sign on the cross should read "Jesus, the King of Israel" since the word "Jew" did not exist until ~ the 14th century when books began to be printed. Yet it is used as far back as the book of Esther, re: Mordecai. Esther 2:5. Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite; Esther 2:5. Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Judean whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite;
Looks like the rest didn't send. The only difference between Aramaic and Hebrew is the same as between British english and American english. I tutored mike on the council of 12 before his PhD. I stated some things he didn't cater to and he blocked my emails. He then expanded on my stuff on the council of 12. But he was always the skeptic and that caused him to come up with some things that are not exactly correct. So pull out the bones and eat the meat.
@@galewollenberg786 Not true. There are very noticeable spelling differences between the two languages. They are not simply dialect difference. You are displaying a very profound lack of knowledge.
@@eclipseeventsigns No lack of knowledge, I just know what to say to get the real incompetents to show their hand. Who taught you Hebrew, aramaic, greek, and latin? It does not matter as you already have shown your hand.
Post-tribbers and pre-tribbers are partially right. 1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming with the only material resurrection for the saints which is on the last day, last trumpet (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6, 1 Cor 15:52). Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib rapture without a material resurrection. There is a flash of light and dead bodies (verse 37) when life seems normal (eating, drinking, etc.). We leave our flesh on earth.
Hebrews 9:27-28 It is appointed for man once to die then judgment, Jesus came the FIRST TIME to deal with sin (taking believers sin to the cross) and He comes a SECOND TIME unto SALVATION (unto getting saved, unto being born again, unto receiving Christ as Lord and savior) The second coming is a timeless event that ALL Christians experience when they come to Christ, past present future. The only rapture that takes place is being pulled out of the consequence of your sin by Jesus.
Ok. When he talked about air. Then made the assumption where does the the devil live? I thought hold on. Where in the world does the devil live half to do with this scripture....it doesnt. The devil could live in old mother hubbard cupboard it DOESNT MATTER..this scripture is not about that.. This really makes me angry. Its great to ask questions. But questions must stick to topic on hand... Now i now why he is this way. Its not the 1st time he brought up questions not relevant to at hand. Thats why he causes confusion... We have a saying today. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China.
I dont care for teachers like this. If you are noncomitted. With a attitude of Meh. What shall be shall be.. u are not a teacher whatsoever..u so discord.... Either stand on something or shutup. If u believe in the tribulation....u have to ask yourself this. Tribulation is Gods punishment of the wicked on earth. Why do he punish the belivers with them? That makes no sense... he didnt punish noah... No my God punishes the wicked. Not believers
"We meet the Lord in the air...air may be in the realm of the Spirit.... NO because CLOUDS are in the air we breath! Do we take it literally? WHY NOT? If you take it symbolically, it can mean ANYTHING. "how would we meet the disembodied dead..." WE WON'T! We will meet RESURRECTED saints. The Dead in Christ will rise first! So they are in their resurrection bodies when we meet them in the air.
Listen to chuck missler’s videos on the rapture. He nails down that the bible is talking about two different events, and if they are they contradict themselves
@@jon-michaelsmith8187 Do you mean "two different" comings? I firmly believe there will be a separate coming for the rapture, pre-trib, FOR His saints, and then about seven years later, a coming for Armageddon WITH His saints. If this is what you mean, please show who they are contradictory.
@@LyleCooper It’s very popular nowadays for people to say that the pretrib rapture is a new idea, but it’s definitely not. He even shows other ancient writings from the early church that believed in the pre trib. It’s the best breakdown on it I have ever heard
@@LastFellowship well, I feel like the pretrib folk get very dogmatic when it comes to this…they act like you’re not a Christian because you don’t follow the pretrib doctrine. I’ve searched everywhere, and I can’t find a single passage or verse that would suggest of some secret rapture and Christ having 2 returns…I don’t see it anywhere.
@@davidhammond10 everybody gets dogmatic about their own views. The trick is to remember we're all probably wrong,.and we should get busy making disciples.
@@davidhammond10 so ever real scientist is worshipping him even if they are an atheist? I can make loads of verses say whatever I want by taking them out of context. Spirit and truth means sincerity and a pure heart, not being a religious jerk to people.
I like how he presents thjngs in such a manner that makes one question why they believe what they do. But, something that Mr Heiser tended to negate, is that the immenince was consistently and emphatically repeated throughout the NT 👉"101 (ONE HUNDRED AND ONE) TIMES"👈!!! There is no way, anyone in there right mind would say "theres more than one way to interpret something God said A HUNDRED AND ONE TIMES! ...🤨 🤨 🤨 🤦♂️
@@ShadowofTheAlmighty I wish you would go to university and study this because you really think you have it down, but you don't know what you don't know. Please stop spamming your view. Nobody is here to find your opinions, they are here to listen to heiser's lectures.
@@LastFellowship then do that yourself and just ignore me. But for those who wish to actually find truth no matter the source, I offer information that Heiser didn't address either because he did not want to or because he was unaware of the vast array of connections himself. Some times people CAN actually be "too smart for their own good" and wind up with "paralysis of analysis!"...
@@LastFellowship which is wiser: to judge things by "what view they are" and immediately dismiss them , or to hear something out to it's full extent and test it against the scriptures to see if it lines up, like a true Berean would?🤔
@@LastFellowshipthat's OK, keep deleting. Just remember "in whatever measure you judge YOU yourself will be judged"! I'd bet you didn't even look at the article! 🙄
"I ought to separate....or I ought to join..." NO, this is how false doctrines come into existence. The proper way is to study the texts and see of the various passages can be aligned by events and by TIME. As it turns out with 1 Thes 4 & 5 versus Matthew 24, when one discovers from the text the TIMING of each passage, one is then forced to separate. Paul's rapture is just before the wrath of God. In Revelation we find that God begins to get angry so begins the DAY of His wrath in Revelation chapter 6, which, on John's time-line, is over seven years BEFORE "after the tribulation of those days." The 70th week, a period of seven years, goes from 8:1 to the 7th bowl in chapter 16. ALL of the seals are opened before any of the 70th week will occur. It is impossible then to join the two. It is the same with the celestial signs in the sun and moon. The EVENTS or FACTS prove two different events. First the sign for the Day of His Wrath or the Day of the Lord (two titles for the same period of time) will be total eclipses (or something that will appear as two eclipses) that must be visible to recognize it is the biblical sign. This sign is written in Rev. 6. The other sign, the Matthew 24 sign, is a totally different sign-the sign of total darkness with the sun and moon being invisible. So when one understands the text, and the events, it is impossible that they are the same event. The timing also proves they cannot be the same. If John had seen the signs Jesus spoke of for His coming to Armageddon, John would have written in in Chapter 19, before HIs coming. John did not see it, so did not write it, so we don't have that proof. However, the sign will be after the tribulation of those days, which then would be late in Rev. 16, or Chapter 17, or 18, which again is a time over seven years after the sign for the Day of the Lord.
As you’re literally doing the one thing Heiser said people do😂 taking a position based on what you think the text says not what the text says… because it doesn’t say that! comments like this should be the example to all of what Heiser is pointing out. Thank you for settling the 2000+ year debate with your omniscient knowledge in these 5 short paragraphs on TH-cam.
@@BecauseGrace Let's take, for example, those that believe the gathering in Matthew 24 is the same gathering as Paul's gathering in 1 Thes. 4:17. Let's examine each passage and determine WHERE each would fit on John's Revelation timeline. Paul shows us that his gathering is before the Day of the Lord. In Revelation that would be before the 6th seal in Chapter 6. Where then is the gathering in Matthew 24 going to fit on Revelation's timeline? "The tribulation" or the 70th week goes from Revelation chapter 8 to chapter 16 in Revelation, so "after the tribulation of those days" from Matthew 24 would have to be after the 16th chapter of Revelation. How then can anyone imagine "joining" these two passages when one will come before the 70th week in Revelation and the other after the 70th week? So we allow the TEXT to tell us whether we separate or join. Question: Which did Paul mention first: the rapture/gathering or the Day of the Lord? Verse 17 of chapter 4 is the rapture, and the DAY is mentioned three verses later in chapter5. As confirmation, if we examine the 5th seal, the martyrs of the church age, and understand what they were told, it is another hint for the time of the rapture. They understand they are in the age of grace, so they cry out wondering WHEN God will judge their murders - or when God will begin judgment. God answers them: they must wait for the FINAL martyr to be killed as they all were and will be killed: as church-age martyrs. In other words, they have to wait for the END of the church age-that new dispensation given to Paul for the Gentile church of today. Paul's dispensation for the Gentiles must end before the 70th week for the Jew's begins. His dispensation will end at the rapture and "time" will go back to the Jews for their 70th week. Therefore the rapture must come after the 5th seal and before the 6th seal. The text proves this gathering cannot be the Matthew 24 gathering, for there will be seven years between them.
You have a bad habit that many preachers unfortunately also have. Which is that when you start reciting verses in the Bible, you tend to mumble it and say it really fast because you know it probably off the top of your head and you think that there’s no need to articulate it. What ends up happening is that because you go through the verse so quickly and mumble it, that what happens is that the only part that we understand based on what you’re saying is your explanation or your interpretation. So this is not something that I can listen to in the car. I have to do it, where I can start and stop so that I can read the Bible verses because I can’t catch what you’re saying when you’re reading them.
But it was put out on TH-cam so that it would be available in a variety of venues. Maybe riding in a car isn't the best, but it wasn't the primary intended audience. If you don't get it the first time, I suggest that you find a quiet space and listen to it again.
When I got saved I never heard of a rapture. I was completely shocked when I heard of the idea and NEVER came to that assumption with my personal studying
Bingo. Neither did 'the church' - the body of Christ for the first 1800 years of its existence ..... Hmmm
@@northtrader "Harpazo" means to be caught up in the Spirit, not bodily. This took place when Christ was revealed in 70AD. You're right. This is a more recent teaching. There is no such thing as a rapture.
I get ‘caught up’ in housework all the time. 🫠🤓
It’s so funny how everyone is still trying to prove their point by wise and crafty “interpretations”. I’m so thankful for people like Heiser that just give the options and make it clear that we just don’t know and most likely aren’t supposed to know. But people love to think they’re right. Just accept that you might be right but also might be wrong. Be ready, walk with the Lord, pray without ceasing, stay in His Word… and whatever happens and however it happens if you were the one who “got it right”.. maybe Jesus will give you a nice trophy and we can all take a break mid-eternity and say “congrats we are in awe of your vast wisdom and knowledge.” …
Anyway.. anyone want to take a break from the eschatology argument, concern ourselves with nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified and go make some disciples? You know.. that thing… the.. thee uhh.. oh ya!! The great commission!
If we are not suppose to know, then why would it be in the scriptures? I think it is up to us to at least search the scriptures to try to understand, with the help of the Holy Spirit. By the way, the great commission was fulfilled with the apostles.
@@Stan-l4j3ni think what he’s saying partly anyway is- while believers are busy with their heads in scripture trying to understand when the rapture happens and how all the end time stuff rolls out, the ‘great commission’ is taking a backseat, being neglected. And since there is so much debate about it, there’s not doubt that some of it is right and some of it is wrong and people get hurt , turned off altogether or discouraged- quite the opposite of what Jesus wants us to do. 😊
I’m a joiner!
I am a splitoiner
If we take the scripture figuratively we will be closer to the truth but if we read it literally we box ourselves in a corner. We need both in the proper amount to come closer understand .
I don't see the conflict between the rapture and the second coming. Paul said that we meet Him in the air, it doesn't say anything about Him coming down to earth.
You don’t.. but many do. That’s the point of this message.
We meet him in the air at His coming. (I Thessalonians 4:13-18 c.f. ) and the man of sin is destroyed at His coming (II Thessalonians 2:1, 2;8.)
@@linkhudson9025 if you understood Hebrew culture, you always go out to meet someone of importance than escort them back to earth we will live. A new heaven and earth. The temple was where heaven and earth met. Now we are the temple snd Christ will visibly dwell amongst us on a perfected earth. He did not create earth just to throw it away. He loves the world (cosmos). He is going to restore it.
I will add that there’s an assumption being made about ‘what the air is’….. (the unseen realm). The air isn’t literally where I lost my helium balloon.
But the earth is his footstool and the heavens his throne.
So this is the understanding of in him we live and have our being. For I am persuaded that neither life nor death can separate us from the love of God in Jesus. The lord God omnipotent.
So odd that many consider "rapture" to be the "Blessed Hope". When it's so obvious that the Blessed Hope is the Appearing of Our Lord and Saviour. In other words, the blessed hope isn't only for the very last batch of saints in church-age history, but for every single saint throughout all history, starting with Abel. But how you encounter that Blessed Hope, by rising from the grave, or being changed in the twinkling of an eye, is really secondary. THE LORD is the blessed hope, NOT the fact of avoiding a few bad years of world history..
What Michael points out is that it is important to rightly divide the scriptures. Jesus, reading from the scrolls, stopped at a comma and closed it. The remainder of the sentence was reserved for 2,000 years later. Understanding prophecy is not just an intellectual endeavor. It is walking with God, submitting to The Word, and being infilled of the Spirit. We CANNOT “just figure it out”
Understanding prophecy actually is an intellectual endeavor. Dr Heiser is an Old Testament scholar, you can’t fully understand some of the New Testament and most of The Book of Revelation without knowing the Old Testament!
@@emfarfan edited my op to represent my intent … is not “just” an intellectual endeavor. My point is simple. Without complete and unconditional surrender to Creator God, any purely intellectual attempt to understand prophecy will lead to apostasy.
The never ending dispute right??. Just be ready!. Receive Jesus as savior before it's too late!. I know that when I pass I'll be raptured into the arms of Jesus!. That's all that matters. ❤❤❤❤😊
If everyone could just get this simple truth can you imagine what the world would look like?
I've always said, whether it's the Rapture, natural death, or a nuclear blast, I'll be with Jesus. I'm a Pan-Tribber. It will all pan out in the end, ; )
You are so correct
My sole criticism on not caring which position one takes is this: belief in the preteib rapture accompanies the belief that Christians will not be subject to the revealing of antichrist and the mark of the beast. If pretrib rapture is wrong, and there are very few if no pretrib teachers to admit they might be wrong, this belief puts many pretribbers in line to take the mark and worship the beast because they've been conditioned to belief it cannot be the mark if they're still here on earth. Accordingly, we must care about their flawed position so that when times of great testing and distress come, they do not fall away and be forever lost.
@@BornAgain490 the mark of the beast can't be taken by accident. You can't trip over and accidentally not be a Christian anymore. Anyone who takes the mark takes it deliberately and knowing they are betraying Christ.
@@LastFellowship
Professing Christians will apostacize and take the mark because they will be deceived.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
If anyone takes a mark on their forehead or right hand, then they weren't a believer to begin with. They would have to be deaf dumb and blind, to miss all the info about the Mark out there. And I think the Devil would insist on the worship that comes with the Mark. I mean he's not doing it just for giggles.
@@markjohnson9402 that's called the no true Scotsman fallacy.
@@LastFellowship I am a Scotsman, and what I said wasn't false, ; )
So the passage isn’t about “soul sleep”. It’s concerning those who are “asleep” when the thief in the night comes. So don’t be asleep spiritually. Be on guard for when the Lord comes.
Ok, I didn't listen long enough to see that he got that. Most don't. 🙏✝️🙏
Splitter or a Joiner.. interesting
Mainline Churches of Christ in the house.
he seems to be creating problems where none really exists for example seeing some sort of Need for 1st Corinthians 15's reference to death having to coincide with the destruction of death towards the end of the book of Revelation. if we raise from the dead death has no sting to us. The passage deals with the resolution of the issue of death for they that are Christ's.
Also where would first century believers get this vague idea that the air means heaven or some sort of spiritual realm? It seems like he's reading in later concepts of popular theology from different eras back into the New Testament for his hypothetical interpretation.
You need to read into the context of 2nd temple Jewish literature.
No rapture- but what is true- & absolutely is that people want to be right! I was reassured that its OK not to know for sure- all I really care about is that Hes coming and I can be with Him. It doesnt matter if its on earth or a different realm because I cant begin to imagine either one. Trying to de code the future and end times makes me worried, confused, frustrated and obsessing on things I have no control over & He has not made clear
Are you a Preterist? Scholars have thoroughly debunked that position, study more!
Friends.There is total confusion about eschatology.I spent a lot of time in thm
Amen.
Les Feldick in his Bible study believes in a pre-tribulation rapture for the reason that Grace and Law need to be separate. Just as God instructed Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael away after the birth of Isaac so the children of Grace will need to be taken out before Israel again comes under Law
@@jamespittsfordiii7632 that kinda ignores NT theology and draws conclusions from analogy rather than actual explicit teaching.
His view is missing some very important considerations. WHO is the passage addressing? The Jewish Christians or the Gentile Christians. The New Testament has the majority of content addressed to Jewish believers. People who were still sharing in the destiny of God's chosen nation. It's very much different outcome for Gentile believers. Most people (including Heiser) NEVER realize or address this.
Galatians says there is only one people of God. The chosen people are any who have believing loyalty to the Lord.
@@peterandjoycevanbreemen600 Read the actual text. Not what your preacher thinks it is.
I wish all other parts of this series had been presented this way: online.
Anyway, I am toward being a 'Splitter,' which makes more sense and makes me more ready for his imminent coming.
.
Friends.Actually where is Abel today --is he awake or asleep? is he clothed or unclothed?is he in glory or elsewhere?Same for the penitent thief, please!?EG.
There were 70 years between the first and the final coming so for the believer it is very much at home with the Lord and in our eternal clothes and dwelling.EG.There is NO extra Coming
@@grahamwilson9442 Abel is heaven (spirit realm) today. He gets an immortal flesh and bones body at the second coming (1 Thes 4) to live on earth.
Splitter makes the most sense to me also. The second coming will be expected (Rev 6:15-17). No one will be doubting. It will not be welcomed by all.
1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming with the only material resurrection for the saints which is on the last day, last trumpet (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6, 1 Cor 15:52).
Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib rapture without a material resurrection. There is a flash of light and dead bodies (verse 37) when life seems normal (eating, drinking, etc.).
Mathew and John were apostles with 1st hand accounts . Luke and Mark were disciples with 2nd hand accounts.
The sign on the cross should read "Jesus, the King of Israel" since the word "Jew" did not exist until ~ the 14th century when books began to be printed. Yet it is used as far back as the book of Esther, re: Mordecai.
Esther 2:5. Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite;
Esther 2:5. Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Judean whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite;
The inscription was written in Hebrew so it would form an acrostic (intended to irritate the Jews), and then Greek and Latin.
No, it was written in Aramaic not Hebrew.
@@eclipseeventsigns Sorry, but you do not know what you are talking about.
Looks like the rest didn't send. The only difference between Aramaic and Hebrew is the same as between British english and American english. I tutored mike on the council of 12 before his PhD. I stated some things he didn't cater to and he blocked my emails. He then expanded on my stuff on the council of 12. But he was always the skeptic and that caused him to come up with some things that are not exactly correct. So pull out the bones and eat the meat.
@@galewollenberg786 Not true. There are very noticeable spelling differences between the two languages. They are not simply dialect difference. You are displaying a very profound lack of knowledge.
@@eclipseeventsigns No lack of knowledge, I just know what to say to get the real incompetents to show their hand. Who taught you Hebrew, aramaic, greek, and latin? It does not matter as you already have shown your hand.
Post-tribbers and pre-tribbers are partially right.
1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming with the only material resurrection for the saints which is on the last day, last trumpet (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6, 1 Cor 15:52).
Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib rapture without a material resurrection. There is a flash of light and dead bodies (verse 37) when life seems normal (eating, drinking, etc.).
We leave our flesh on earth.
@23:40 i guess that would make me a minority in a minority😊
Hebrews 9:27-28 It is appointed for man once to die then judgment, Jesus came the FIRST TIME to deal with sin (taking believers sin to the cross) and He comes a SECOND TIME unto SALVATION (unto getting saved, unto being born again, unto receiving Christ as Lord and savior) The second coming is a timeless event that ALL Christians experience when they come to Christ, past present future.
The only rapture that takes place is being pulled out of the consequence of your sin by Jesus.
@@2drsdan do you know what the Greek word "kairos" means?...
It would do good to research that term and where it's used in scripture.
Ok. When he talked about air. Then made the assumption where does the the devil live?
I thought hold on. Where in the world does the devil live half to do with this scripture....it doesnt. The devil could live in old mother hubbard cupboard it DOESNT MATTER..this scripture is not about that..
This really makes me angry. Its great to ask questions. But questions must stick to topic on hand...
Now i now why he is this way. Its not the 1st time he brought up questions not relevant to at hand. Thats why he causes confusion...
We have a saying today. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China.
@@uptownlife42 sounds like you need to have a coke and a smile and sit down. I think you're understanding very little of what he's saying.
As usual with most responses a off handed Insult but never addressed what I said... being the case with most people
@@uptownlife42 you'll get over it. Maybe read a book rather than troll TH-cam.
I dont care for teachers like this. If you are noncomitted. With a attitude of Meh. What shall be shall be.. u are not a teacher whatsoever..u so discord....
Either stand on something or shutup.
If u believe in the tribulation....u have to ask yourself this. Tribulation is Gods punishment of the wicked on earth. Why do he punish the belivers with them? That makes no sense... he didnt punish noah...
No my God punishes the wicked. Not believers
@@uptownlife42 I think you've completely mischaracterised him
"We meet the Lord in the air...air may be in the realm of the Spirit.... NO because CLOUDS are in the air we breath! Do we take it literally? WHY NOT? If you take it symbolically, it can mean ANYTHING.
"how would we meet the disembodied dead..." WE WON'T! We will meet RESURRECTED saints. The Dead in Christ will rise first! So they are in their resurrection bodies when we meet them in the air.
Listen to chuck missler’s videos on the rapture. He nails down that the bible is talking about two different events, and if they are they contradict themselves
@@jon-michaelsmith8187
Do you mean "two different" comings?
I firmly believe there will be a separate coming for the rapture, pre-trib, FOR His saints, and then about seven years later, a coming for Armageddon WITH His saints.
If this is what you mean, please show who they are contradictory.
@@LyleCooper I agree with you 100 percent. If you have never done this on TH-cam, search “Chuck Missler Rapture”.
@@LyleCooper It’s very popular nowadays for people to say that the pretrib rapture is a new idea, but it’s definitely not. He even shows other ancient writings from the early church that believed in the pre trib. It’s the best breakdown on it I have ever heard
@@jon-michaelsmith8187
I agree. Paul taught a pre-wrath rapture, and a pre-70th week rapture.
Folks, there is no pretrib rapture. There’s not a single scripture that points to it.
@@davidhammond10 that will mean nothing to people who believe in a pretrib rapture. People aren't convinced by repeated denials.
@@LastFellowship well, I feel like the pretrib folk get very dogmatic when it comes to this…they act like you’re not a Christian because you don’t follow the pretrib doctrine. I’ve searched everywhere, and I can’t find a single passage or verse that would suggest of some secret rapture and Christ having 2 returns…I don’t see it anywhere.
@@davidhammond10 everybody gets dogmatic about their own views. The trick is to remember we're all probably wrong,.and we should get busy making disciples.
@@LastFellowship He says to worship Him in spirit and truth…we should be seeking out the truth.
@@davidhammond10 so ever real scientist is worshipping him even if they are an atheist?
I can make loads of verses say whatever I want by taking them out of context.
Spirit and truth means sincerity and a pure heart, not being a religious jerk to people.
I like how he presents thjngs in such a manner that makes one question why they believe what they do. But, something that Mr Heiser tended to negate, is that the immenince was consistently and emphatically repeated throughout the NT 👉"101 (ONE HUNDRED AND ONE) TIMES"👈!!!
There is no way, anyone in there right mind would say "theres more than one way to interpret something God said A HUNDRED AND ONE TIMES! ...🤨 🤨 🤨
🤦♂️
@@ShadowofTheAlmighty I wish you would go to university and study this because you really think you have it down, but you don't know what you don't know.
Please stop spamming your view. Nobody is here to find your opinions, they are here to listen to heiser's lectures.
@@LastFellowship then do that yourself and just ignore me. But for those who wish to actually find truth no matter the source, I offer information that Heiser didn't address either because he did not want to or because he was unaware of the vast array of connections himself. Some times people CAN actually be "too smart for their own good" and wind up with "paralysis of analysis!"...
@@LastFellowship which is wiser: to judge things by "what view they are" and immediately dismiss them , or to hear something out to it's full extent and test it against the scriptures to see if it lines up, like a true Berean would?🤔
@@LastFellowshipomg...
Did u just delete the whole thread?🤨
Wow...
@@LastFellowshipthat's OK, keep deleting. Just remember "in whatever measure you judge YOU yourself will be judged"!
I'd bet you didn't even look at the article! 🙄
"I ought to separate....or I ought to join..." NO, this is how false doctrines come into existence. The proper way is to study the texts and see of the various passages can be aligned by events and by TIME. As it turns out with 1 Thes 4 & 5 versus Matthew 24, when one discovers from the text the TIMING of each passage, one is then forced to separate. Paul's rapture is just before the wrath of God.
In Revelation we find that God begins to get angry so begins the DAY of His wrath in Revelation chapter 6, which, on John's time-line, is over seven years BEFORE "after the tribulation of those days."
The 70th week, a period of seven years, goes from 8:1 to the 7th bowl in chapter 16. ALL of the seals are opened before any of the 70th week will occur. It is impossible then to join the two.
It is the same with the celestial signs in the sun and moon. The EVENTS or FACTS prove two different events. First the sign for the Day of His Wrath or the Day of the Lord (two titles for the same period of time) will be total eclipses (or something that will appear as two eclipses) that must be visible to recognize it is the biblical sign. This sign is written in Rev. 6. The other sign, the Matthew 24 sign, is a totally different sign-the sign of total darkness with the sun and moon being invisible. So when one understands the text, and the events, it is impossible that they are the same event.
The timing also proves they cannot be the same. If John had seen the signs Jesus spoke of for His coming to Armageddon, John would have written in in Chapter 19, before HIs coming. John did not see it, so did not write it, so we don't have that proof. However, the sign will be after the tribulation of those days, which then would be late in Rev. 16, or Chapter 17, or 18, which again is a time over seven years after the sign for the Day of the Lord.
As you’re literally doing the one thing Heiser said people do😂 taking a position based on what you think the text says not what the text says… because it doesn’t say that! comments like this should be the example to all of what Heiser is pointing out. Thank you for settling the 2000+ year debate with your omniscient knowledge in these 5 short paragraphs on TH-cam.
@@BecauseGrace
Let's take, for example, those that believe the gathering in Matthew 24 is the same gathering as Paul's gathering in 1 Thes. 4:17. Let's examine each passage and determine WHERE each would fit on John's Revelation timeline.
Paul shows us that his gathering is before the Day of the Lord. In Revelation that would be before the 6th seal in Chapter 6. Where then is the gathering in Matthew 24 going to fit on Revelation's timeline? "The tribulation" or the 70th week goes from Revelation chapter 8 to chapter 16 in Revelation, so "after the tribulation of those days" from Matthew 24 would have to be after the 16th chapter of Revelation. How then can anyone imagine "joining" these two passages when one will come before the 70th week in Revelation and the other after the 70th week?
So we allow the TEXT to tell us whether we separate or join.
Question: Which did Paul mention first: the rapture/gathering or the Day of the Lord? Verse 17 of chapter 4 is the rapture, and the DAY is mentioned three verses later in chapter5.
As confirmation, if we examine the 5th seal, the martyrs of the church age, and understand what they were told, it is another hint for the time of the rapture. They understand they are in the age of grace, so they cry out wondering WHEN God will judge their murders - or when God will begin judgment.
God answers them: they must wait for the FINAL martyr to be killed as they all were and will be killed: as church-age martyrs. In other words, they have to wait for the END of the church age-that new dispensation given to Paul for the Gentile church of today.
Paul's dispensation for the Gentiles must end before the 70th week for the Jew's begins. His dispensation will end at the rapture and "time" will go back to the Jews for their 70th week.
Therefore the rapture must come after the 5th seal and before the 6th seal. The text proves this gathering cannot be the Matthew 24 gathering, for there will be seven years between them.
Ridiculous
You have a bad habit that many preachers unfortunately also have. Which is that when you start reciting verses in the Bible, you tend to mumble it and say it really fast because you know it probably off the top of your head and you think that there’s no need to articulate it. What ends up happening is that because you go through the verse so quickly and mumble it, that what happens is that the only part that we understand based on what you’re saying is your explanation or your interpretation. So this is not something that I can listen to in the car. I have to do it, where I can start and stop so that I can read the Bible verses because I can’t catch what you’re saying when you’re reading them.
It was a conference session. Never made to listen too in the car.
But it was put out on TH-cam so that it would be available in a variety of venues. Maybe riding in a car isn't the best, but it wasn't the primary intended audience. If you don't get it the first time, I suggest that you find a quiet space and listen to it again.
He passed away a year and half ago. He isn’t going to read your comments 😢. He was a great Bible scholar
He's no longer with us, so he can't see your complaint.😞