I just put two washers behind the bracket that mounts the z stepper motor and it fixed it. When tightened down without washers on mine it would force the motor to be out of square.
If the lead screw being loose is a band aid, then the coupler is a band aid with a wrap around it. The correct fix would be to find and correct the cause of misalignment. Readjust the frame, shim the stepper, replace the rod etc. BTW, I belive the bearings you have at the top of the screws also have some play. Those look like creality parts or clones. The bearing within is aloud to move front to back to accommodate for alignment issues. So thats another band aid you have.
Exactly... I don't they his point. He thinks loosening the nut a band aid then admits that the spider couple is there to compensate. He's also assuming the gantry bracket is perfect, often is not.
The problem with your theory is that lead screws are rarely, if ever, perfectly straight. Especially not ones that would be on an ender 3. If you pair Oldham couplers, flexible shaft couplers, and a flexible top bearing restraint this will allow the lead screw to move freely. You then brace the frame or run linear rails to get the rigidity needed in the Z axis. This is what I did with my ender 3 and get absolutely perfectly aligned layers through the Z axis with zero binding issues. I went linear rails and Z axis and Y axis bracing and paired that with TL smoothers for all steppers as well dual Z. Granted my machine has zero stock parts on it now other than the frame itself. You can achieve a rigid, perfect printing z axis with not much effort if you focus on allowing the lead screw to move but the frame to not.
Just want to add, the bigger the red plastic spacer, the more compensation. You want to get the same ones as in this video, not the thin plastic couplers. This one 'mod' got rid of banding in my maximum quality abs prints of miniatures (0.2mm Nozzle and 0.04mm Z height).
Sage Advise!!! Sweet Dual Z Ender BTW!!! Anti Backlash and Flex Coupler Mods are a MUST!!! they're very cheap and produce great results, and i'm sure Flex Couplers reduce lead screw wear and Stepper stress!!!
What I did to center the lead screw was to: 1 unscrew both screws on the coupler 2 move the extruder all the way to the highest z axis position. 3 then retighten the coupler
Spider Couplers help preventing damage to the motor and the threaded rod, Less Vibration. It does not allow for lateral movement. Your threaded rod needs to be fairly straight with the threaded nut on the gantry plate and you should not see binding. Binding is usually caused by misalignment but can be caused by a bad or bent rod alone. You pillow block bearing really are not doing anything either but probably are not causing any issues. I have seen spider couplers come apart easily when rod is not aligned well.
loosening the nuts is equivalent to flex couplers of various kinds though as far as z height differences go. also the backlash nut on z is kinda overkill if you're nut printing upside down or something. the upper restraint on the shaft should be unnecessary and can itself cause binding if the shaft isn't straight, but that would be at the uppermost z range, but if a rod is flopping everywhere they help then, but if using them then as it constraints the movement of the rod it makes the loose nuts method just more viable without most of the downsides. usual older ways are the springy aluminium couplers and an older diy reprap way was to couple m5(or whatever) rod to the shaft with a piece of hose and clamps.
Yeah anti-backlash nuts are snake oil on these types of printers. As long as X gantry wheels are tight but not over-tight and the frame is square, everything should be moving freely therefore gravity makes anti-backlash nuts completely unnecessary. Even a quick Z-hop is not going to make the nut loose contact with the lead screw thread. Also, it adds a lot of friction to the system. People who swear by them should feel how much resistance there is to rotate the screw with an anti-backlash nut installed vs without one. The extra friction is not a good thing.
Good to know; I noticed it was binding real bad. It's actually started making a shrill ringing noise as it moves. I already have some recommended type of lubrication arriving (I also replaced the lead screw recently, so that can't have helped) and make my first new print be a spider coupler and something to add to the top of the lead screw to help hold it in place. Tried to loosen the screws as a stopgap, but.. it didn't really help. I guess noise aside it's still turning, so I think I'll just grease the lead screw and try to print a couple parts to help it out.
when you fit these couplers do you rest the motor shaft on the polyurethane and the lead screw rest on it also or do you need to make a space between the polyurethane and the motor shaft/lead screw?
I have the same couplers and bearings and backlash nuts and i still get a diagonal banding on all my walls, ive spent untold hours trying to make the lead screws as straight as possible without resistance. Im at Whits end
That is because this set up is an example of what not to do to a 3dPrinter,,, never constrain your Top Threaded Rod (you need a free floating end),,, never use a Anti-Backlash Nut (system) were it is not needed ... and i believe this type of coupler was original designed for Radial Shock load in industrial machine ,,, which is completely wrong for a 3d printer-. Sorry Dude but maybe this is why your prints are stuffed-
Mmm . . . there goes the backlash nut theories by adding possible backlash with loosened fixing nuts on the backlash nut ( which in my opinion and later tests) is upside down in the video. This way it just helps to worsen Z-hop!? However, the Ender 3 v2 (mine at least) did come with a poorly mounted Z-axis stepper. Mine was (free standing), leaning away from the frame with +/- 1°, and was pushed even further out as the gantry moved down. Needed quite some modification/adjustments to the mounting block to get the alignment right. I elongated the holes in the mounting block to get the stepper away from the frame.
Trying to completely constrain the freedom of the lead screw in translational movement only works if you have a perfectly straight lead screw. Unfortunately with 3d-printer-quality lead screws, it's a losing lottery that you actually get one with perfect alignment like that. As such it's usually not a good idea.
Probably most of the misalignment comes from the cheap stamped steel bracket that the lead screw nut rides on. I would guarantee the face of the bracket the nut sits on is not perpendicular to the axis of the lead screw. Or also misalignment can come from the machining of the lead screw nut itself. These are very cheap pieces and the threads that are cut into it are probably not exactly perpendicular to the clamping face of the nut. That will cause the nut to sit crooked once installed on the lead screw and if clamped down to the bracket will cause binding.
Spider couplers suck. I used 2 of them on my CR10 and immediately threw them away. While moving up it was okay but when you change direction, it immediately decouples as the lead screw is pulled up.
Some of them are the exact opposite where they're too hard and they don't actually provide any real benefit. The problem is a lot of people end up buying cheap ones and I don't end up doing what they're supposed to do. I don't know which ones you had, but I can vouch for 3D passion has their couplers have been fantastic for me
For whatever reason, my last Ender 3 came with a motor that mounts into screwholes in the 4040 extrusion, and actually FLOATS in air. I had to condense cardboard under the motor as I mounted it to get it to be "straight". Might buy some t-nuts and fix it for good.
Not trying to trash but both your couplers are cheap, however the longer coupler is a slightly higher grade than the short one, if you want a high precision one, get a Rotex™ coupler.
Great video as usual! Butttt..... not quite too sure about all those restraints on the z lead screw????? : / might be creating more problems than solving them. U prob just need the coupler only, not the top stabilizer... and prob not the backlash nut.... either way, to each their own if it works for ya. ; )
@@andrewesquivel that bearing block at the top is not good, the 3D printer is designed to be used without it and there’s videos on TH-cam that explain you should never put that at the top of the lead screw, anyway here’s a great video where he explains it in depth with pictures and demos th-cam.com/video/2Z7mZVvPlc8/w-d-xo.html
LOL! You've just grounded the turkey from flying! :) So, your setup is actually using anti-backlash lead-screws (to eliminate backlash!), which they have a negative contribution of increasing friction which creates more binding potential. By loosening their collar-screws, you're actually NULLIFYING their contribution. You might as well simply change out the anti-backlash lead-screws for normal ones...
@@dziggy3004I've printed and will install adjustable z motor mounts so that I can get the leadscrew as straight as I possibly can, then I'll tighten my antibacklash nuts. I've read that oldham couplers are the very best option and have seen people raving about 3d printed versions... I ordered a couple of the real thing to give a try, any insights or advice? Thanks very much friend
@Menne Talsma You forget one thing in your assumption, one of the locking nuts is stationary the other is free floating. With the spring down you subtract the force of the spring against the gantry, in which case there's more chance of increasing bounce, so you're better off not running the anti-backlash assembly at all. With the spring up you're adding the force of the spring to the gantry keeping it tighter to the lead screw.
the whole thing is unnecessary on z with gravity working as the antibacklash already unless you're making movements with faster acceleration than gravity. if you want zero lash just use a printed coupler anyway.
@@lasskinn474 Right on. Anti-backlash nuts are snake oil on this style of printer unless you need to print with it in the back of a bouncing vehicle. Under normal circumstances, even the fastest Z-hop is not going to make the threads of the nut lift off the threads of the lead screw. Gravity is pulling the whole X-gantry down keeping the threads always in contact (as long as your wheels and frame are adjusted correctly).
Actually there are self centering couplers you can print yourself available at thingiverse. These are even better than the spider couplers. Also you should not fix a Leadscrew at the top. If the leadscrew is straight, it should not be neccesary. If it is not, you increse the wobble. There is a reason Prusa has no bearings at the top for holding the leadscrews but holes to watch If they turn centered (and maybe adjust or change the motor with integrated leadscrew. Anyway, as for z-hopping and/or DirectExtruder you need to support both z axis anyway , the best and cheapest upgrade would be a belt driven z anyway. There is a great design out there. With belts on z you will never have any wobble. There is a reason Voron Design do not use leadscrews at all, even on the Switchwire...
You still don't address the real problem. If the motor shaft, lead screw AND frame aren't square no amount of fancy couplers or nuts work correctly. Binding is only a symptom. Stop addressing symptoms.
Informative, plain and simple explanation. Thanks a lot!
I just put two washers behind the bracket that mounts the z stepper motor and it fixed it. When tightened down without washers on mine it would force the motor to be out of square.
If the lead screw being loose is a band aid, then the coupler is a band aid with a wrap around it. The correct fix would be to find and correct the cause of misalignment. Readjust the frame, shim the stepper, replace the rod etc. BTW, I belive the bearings you have at the top of the screws also have some play. Those look like creality parts or clones. The bearing within is aloud to move front to back to accommodate for alignment issues. So thats another band aid you have.
Could one install ball screws for the lead?
Exactly... I don't they his point. He thinks loosening the nut a band aid then admits that the spider couple is there to compensate. He's also assuming the gantry bracket is perfect, often is not.
The problem with your theory is that lead screws are rarely, if ever, perfectly straight. Especially not ones that would be on an ender 3. If you pair Oldham couplers, flexible shaft couplers, and a flexible top bearing restraint this will allow the lead screw to move freely. You then brace the frame or run linear rails to get the rigidity needed in the Z axis. This is what I did with my ender 3 and get absolutely perfectly aligned layers through the Z axis with zero binding issues. I went linear rails and Z axis and Y axis bracing and paired that with TL smoothers for all steppers as well dual Z. Granted my machine has zero stock parts on it now other than the frame itself. You can achieve a rigid, perfect printing z axis with not much effort if you focus on allowing the lead screw to move but the frame to not.
Just want to add, the bigger the red plastic spacer, the more compensation. You want to get the same ones as in this video, not the thin plastic couplers.
This one 'mod' got rid of banding in my maximum quality abs prints of miniatures (0.2mm Nozzle and 0.04mm Z height).
Brother can u pls tell me what type of screws are used to hold the t8 lead nut at place. My 3d printer didn't come with one ?
Sage Advise!!! Sweet Dual Z Ender BTW!!! Anti Backlash and Flex Coupler Mods are a MUST!!! they're very cheap and produce great results, and i'm sure Flex Couplers reduce lead screw wear and Stepper stress!!!
What I did to center the lead screw was to:
1 unscrew both screws on the coupler
2 move the extruder all the way to the highest z axis position.
3 then retighten the coupler
what specific model/size spider coupler should we be purchasing?
How about the spring couplers?
Very well presented.
Spider Couplers help preventing damage to the motor and the threaded rod, Less Vibration. It does not allow for lateral movement. Your threaded rod needs to be fairly straight with the threaded nut on the gantry plate and you should not see binding. Binding is usually caused by misalignment but can be caused by a bad or bent rod alone. You pillow block bearing really are not doing anything either but probably are not causing any issues. I have seen spider couplers come apart easily when rod is not aligned well.
loosening the nuts is equivalent to flex couplers of various kinds though as far as z height differences go.
also the backlash nut on z is kinda overkill if you're nut printing upside down or something. the upper restraint on the shaft should be unnecessary and can itself cause binding if the shaft isn't straight, but that would be at the uppermost z range, but if a rod is flopping everywhere they help then, but if using them then as it constraints the movement of the rod it makes the loose nuts method just more viable without most of the downsides.
usual older ways are the springy aluminium couplers and an older diy reprap way was to couple m5(or whatever) rod to the shaft with a piece of hose and clamps.
Yeah anti-backlash nuts are snake oil on these types of printers. As long as X gantry wheels are tight but not over-tight and the frame is square, everything should be moving freely therefore gravity makes anti-backlash nuts completely unnecessary. Even a quick Z-hop is not going to make the nut loose contact with the lead screw thread. Also, it adds a lot of friction to the system. People who swear by them should feel how much resistance there is to rotate the screw with an anti-backlash nut installed vs without one. The extra friction is not a good thing.
Good to know; I noticed it was binding real bad. It's actually started making a shrill ringing noise as it moves. I already have some recommended type of lubrication arriving (I also replaced the lead screw recently, so that can't have helped) and make my first new print be a spider coupler and something to add to the top of the lead screw to help hold it in place. Tried to loosen the screws as a stopgap, but.. it didn't really help. I guess noise aside it's still turning, so I think I'll just grease the lead screw and try to print a couple parts to help it out.
the stepper just needs a small 1 or 2 mm shim between it and the frame the lead screw will the be parallel
Can you share which one you bought some on Amazon have terrible reviews
when you fit these couplers do you rest the motor shaft on the polyurethane and the lead screw rest on it also or do you need to make a space between the polyurethane and the motor shaft/lead screw?
I have the same question. Did you ever find an answer?
@@Lili-Keno doesn't seem to make a difference either way
@@TotoGuy-Original Ok, thanks
I have the same couplers and bearings and backlash nuts and i still get a diagonal banding on all my walls,
ive spent untold hours trying to make the lead screws as straight as possible without resistance.
Im at Whits end
That is because this set up is an example of what not to do to a 3dPrinter,,, never constrain your Top Threaded Rod (you need a free floating end),,, never use a Anti-Backlash Nut (system) were it is not needed ... and i believe this type of coupler was original designed for Radial Shock load in industrial machine ,,, which is completely wrong for a 3d printer-. Sorry Dude but maybe this is why your prints are stuffed-
Thx 💪
Nice video 🇨🇾👍🏻
Mmm . . . there goes the backlash nut theories by adding possible backlash with loosened fixing nuts on the backlash nut ( which in my opinion and later tests) is upside down in the video. This way it just helps to worsen Z-hop!? However, the Ender 3 v2 (mine at least) did come with a poorly mounted Z-axis stepper. Mine was (free standing), leaning away from the frame with +/- 1°, and was pushed even further out as the gantry moved down. Needed quite some modification/adjustments to the mounting block to get the alignment right. I elongated the holes in the mounting block to get the stepper away from the frame.
Ok thanks that some new insight
Trying to completely constrain the freedom of the lead screw in translational movement only works if you have a perfectly straight lead screw. Unfortunately with 3d-printer-quality lead screws, it's a losing lottery that you actually get one with perfect alignment like that. As such it's usually not a good idea.
Probably most of the misalignment comes from the cheap stamped steel bracket that the lead screw nut rides on. I would guarantee the face of the bracket the nut sits on is not perpendicular to the axis of the lead screw. Or also misalignment can come from the machining of the lead screw nut itself. These are very cheap pieces and the threads that are cut into it are probably not exactly perpendicular to the clamping face of the nut. That will cause the nut to sit crooked once installed on the lead screw and if clamped down to the bracket will cause binding.
Spider couplers suck. I used 2 of them on my CR10 and immediately threw them away. While moving up it was okay but when you change direction, it immediately decouples as the lead screw is pulled up.
Some of them are the exact opposite where they're too hard and they don't actually provide any real benefit. The problem is a lot of people end up buying cheap ones and I don't end up doing what they're supposed to do. I don't know which ones you had, but I can vouch for 3D passion has their couplers have been fantastic for me
@@andrewesquivel okay thanks, might try them out
It's still a work around not a fix.
For whatever reason, my last Ender 3 came with a motor that mounts into screwholes in the 4040 extrusion, and actually FLOATS in air. I had to condense cardboard under the motor as I mounted it to get it to be "straight". Might buy some t-nuts and fix it for good.
Not trying to trash but both your couplers are cheap, however the longer coupler is a slightly higher grade than the short one, if you want a high precision one, get a Rotex™ coupler.
Great video as usual! Butttt..... not quite too sure about all those restraints on the z lead screw????? : / might be creating more problems than solving them. U prob just need the coupler only, not the top stabilizer... and prob not the backlash nut.... either way, to each their own if it works for ya. ; )
I'll be making videos going into the various details as to why each of those restraints are useful when applied properly.
@@andrewesquivel that bearing block at the top is not good, the 3D printer is designed to be used without it and there’s videos on TH-cam that explain you should never put that at the top of the lead screw, anyway here’s a great video where he explains it in depth with pictures and demos
th-cam.com/video/2Z7mZVvPlc8/w-d-xo.html
Uhhh my Z axis motor basicallyy floats so this wont solve my issue lol.
LOL! You've just grounded the turkey from flying! :) So, your setup is actually using anti-backlash lead-screws (to eliminate backlash!), which they have a negative contribution of increasing friction which creates more binding potential. By loosening their collar-screws, you're actually NULLIFYING their contribution. You might as well simply change out the anti-backlash lead-screws for normal ones...
so keep those two screws tight if you have antibacklash nuts?
@@keebsnstuff3400 Fix/compensate for the alignment issue... which he sorta does by the end.
@@dziggy3004 that doesn't answer my question...
@@keebsnstuff3400 yes, tighten -- but it also requires correcting the alignment and/or mitigating it (eg. with the spiders)
@@dziggy3004I've printed and will install adjustable z motor mounts so that I can get the leadscrew as straight as I possibly can, then I'll tighten my antibacklash nuts.
I've read that oldham couplers are the very best option and have seen people raving about 3d printed versions... I ordered a couple of the real thing to give a try, any insights or advice?
Thanks very much friend
Flip your antibacklash nuts, the spring is unloading the gantry, you want it working with gravity, not fighting it.
@Menne Talsma You forget one thing in your assumption, one of the locking nuts is stationary the other is free floating. With the spring down you subtract the force of the spring against the gantry, in which case there's more chance of increasing bounce, so you're better off not running the anti-backlash assembly at all. With the spring up you're adding the force of the spring to the gantry keeping it tighter to the lead screw.
@Menne Talsma You have no clue how anti-backlash nuts function.....
@@BruceTheSniper @Menne Talsma You both are just talking gibberish.
the whole thing is unnecessary on z with gravity working as the antibacklash already unless you're making movements with faster acceleration than gravity. if you want zero lash just use a printed coupler anyway.
@@lasskinn474 Right on. Anti-backlash nuts are snake oil on this style of printer unless you need to print with it in the back of a bouncing vehicle. Under normal circumstances, even the fastest Z-hop is not going to make the threads of the nut lift off the threads of the lead screw. Gravity is pulling the whole X-gantry down keeping the threads always in contact (as long as your wheels and frame are adjusted correctly).
Actually there are self centering couplers you can print yourself available at thingiverse. These are even better than the spider couplers.
Also you should not fix a Leadscrew at the top. If the leadscrew is straight, it should not be neccesary. If it is not, you increse the wobble. There is a reason Prusa has no bearings at the top for holding the leadscrews but holes to watch If they turn centered (and maybe adjust or change the motor with integrated leadscrew.
Anyway, as for z-hopping and/or DirectExtruder you need to support both z axis anyway , the best and cheapest upgrade would be a belt driven z anyway. There is a great design out there. With belts on z you will never have any wobble. There is a reason Voron Design do not use leadscrews at all, even on the Switchwire...
You still don't address the real problem. If the motor shaft, lead screw AND frame aren't square no amount of fancy couplers or nuts work correctly.
Binding is only a symptom. Stop addressing symptoms.