A few things if you're trying to make your z axis and prints as perfect as possible: - don't use the power supply relocation shown in the video. This is hanging loose off the end and will vibrate and cause oscillations which can produce ringing artifacts. There are options on thingiverse that add more structural rigidity. The one in the video can be salvaged by printing and gluing a cube to the underside to support it. - use the dual independent z motor upgrade (option 3). This is the only way to leave the lead screw loose at the top. You specifically DO NOT want to have the lead screw constrained at the top. Lead screws are not accurate parts and are not rigid. They are not meant to be constrained at the top. As seen in the video, the 2nd option introduced z banding. The flexible Z coupler did help fix it, but constraining it from the top and bottom will still reduce quality. For that reason you want 2 individual motors and lead screws without clamping at the top.
I found the mount that came with my dual z axis kit caused the second motor to be very misaligned with the vertical extrusion.. so some adjustments needed there, plus the flexible couplers helped a lot m.imgur.com/a/5mfvf7M
@@PureRushXevus That's unfortunate, it's good that the flex coupler helped. Those pictures are a great example of the rigidity of a lead screw, aka none. Despite it being bent like that, provided it has sufficient play (which you improved with the flex coupler) it shouldn't be too bad. That is because the path of the lead screw itself is what is constrained. If the lead screw bends, there will be less resistance against the path that the x gantry mount is trying to force it along. Something in the system has to give to the inaccuracy of the lead screw. If you add a solid clamping on the bottom and the top, then you are likely to force the x gantry out of line slightly and get the artifacts shown in the video. Of course, getting a straighter leadscrew could probably help in your case too. If you look at the videos by MirageC explaining the ball screw system on his printer, it helps understand the purpose of the leadscrew a bit more. Deckingman also has a good video about leadscrews.
@@lllllllllllillllllll Cool, yeah you really see the top of the leadscrew move around a fair amount when printing sometimes if it's not perfectly aligned, so I now understand why having that free is important :p
@@autogyro333 In option 2 the secondary one is fine since it's only attached at the top. However, the motorized one becomes constrained at the top and bottom. A flex coupler may or may not be able to compensate for this depending on the leadscrew. I'm guessing you're suggesting building some guard around the leadscrew that doesn't actually connect to it? It should be fine provided it doesn't constrain the leadscrew. If it does, just make sure it doesn't constrain it too much or you'll likely start to see some artifacts show up in your prints. Since it's a printed part there isn't much harm in trying it out as you could remove it later.
or you build the belted z axis mod for the ender like in the voron v2. If modified the mod a little for mor rigidity but other than that it runs very well.
Pro tip: before starting a major upgrade on your printer, make sure that you have already printed out any parts necessary first. During my last major upgrade, I had already my printer halfway torn apart before I realized "hey, uhh, didn't I need some printed parts for this mod?" Or you could use this as the perfect excuse to get another printer! "Honey, I need a printer so that I can finish upgrading my printer..." ;-)
Been running the dual-z from a single motor for years now, highly recommend it over the other options, it encourages you to understand where things bind and get everything resolved and properly settled and in-sync/parallel. Nothing can drift out of sync on it's own and I haven't had to level the bed since. Thrust bearings and a shaft clamp keep the smaller threaded rod from popping up into the air, you'll want to fully constrain that instead of relying on gravity.
I watched this whole video twice and after having my own binding issues as well as gantry sag I believe you are right. I have a question and a request: What happens if it's too much on one motor? Motor failure, or driver failure? And second can you explain what you were saying about a coupler at the end of your post? Thanks
@@15RunAway @Dan Cantrell good questions. Too much for one motor: it will skip steps and you will usually hear it, adding a second z rod adds a little bit of friction, but really you are balancing out the existing load in a much more controlled way. For the last part, when you belt the z the second lead screw basically hangs from the top of the block, the thrust bearings help with friction better than a normal bearing, and the shaft collar goes on the underside with another thrust bearing, it restrains that lead screw from ejecting itself partways up and keeps things more rigidly constrained. Ideally gravity is enough for this, but I felt the need to do this and think it helps.
@@RooboticsIt helps a lot! I really appreciate you taking time to answer my questions..I have 3 Creality printers and only two have ABL sensors. I figure the only reason I haven't really come to the point of thinking seriously about dual Z's is probably because anytime I've tampered with the X axis and got the level off all I had to do is probe out another bed mesh, but it gets old doing it manually on this one that isn't equipped with a probe.. I thought about spending my $50 monthly hobby allowance on another probe or doing the dual lead screw. I feel that the CR Touch is kinda like putting a bandaid on a splinter without first removing the splinter if that makes sense.. And I've also did a direct drive upgrade on it recently too, so that adds some weight to it as well. But I'm like you, I like the simplicity the single motor belted Z, of keeping it free of potential points of binding and such. Your thoughts?
You have those that say a dual Z should have dual steppers with their own drivers because the dual steppers split puts too much on a single driver. And some say the single stepper belted Z does what you said and puts too much on the stepper and causes skips, but I'm not one that's gotta print at 100mmps. And you said you've been doing it for years so that's what I want to do.. I've always been one that want to do things right but a lot of times it doesn't have to be the biggest and most expensive way in order to do it right..
@@15RunAway I wouldn't say putting two lead screws on a single stepper will cause skips, I think this only happens if your gantry is binding or is very heavy, at the start of my conversion I had hidden binding I had to resolve(also I am using direct drive fyi), by the time I was finished it was so frictionless I nearly had to worry about it slipping down when unpowered. If anything, a tuned dual-z is easier on the motor.. single-z is very much like trying to lift a weight from across the room on a board, and what's keeping it from falling away from you is a wheel rolling against the far wall. That friction isn't free either, and it's a very awkward way to deal with the weight vs lifting from both sides, imo!
I have just installed the creality Z axis kit on my Ender 3 V2 ( AU$51.00 from Banggood). This kit is supplied the the power supply mounting bracket for Ender 3 and Pro as well as a connection cable for the single plug on the control board. I have increased the Z stepper motor current to 700mA (I have a E3 mini V2 board and tft 35 E3 Display as I did not like the standalone stepper drivers of the original 4.2.2 board).
lol waited for this video for a long time, I already installed my dual z and linear rails on the z a month ago (I went for the belt system) and from the experience I have with the installation, I can say you covered most of the things, but for the linear rails (what you didn't covert in this video) I had problems with aligning the frame, took me 2 months to figure out that both of the aluminum extrusion of the z-axis wasn't parallel to each other and I used alignment tools for the linear rails and they should have been parallel with that tool but the problem in the end was with the frame. So my tip is if you have issues with getting it to work properly, check the frame if it aligned and parallel to each other (it can be an issue also with v rollers)
I was a huge fan of option 3 and used it for years but it's very likely that you'll get worse prints than just with a single Z because it's almost guaranteed that one of the Z steppers will skip sometime during the print and BAM now you have a crooked gantry mid-print. Then I saw a printer with option 1 installed and it ran for years without needing any adjustment. Don't overcomplicate things, the best is always the simplest.
It sound like torque problems, if the driver of the board cannot give the necessary current you can try to connect the motors in series instead of parallel.
I did the proper printing belt version a while ago. To level I just loosened the z motor coupler, put a bubble level on the x gantry, and adjusted. It worked well and was really quick and easy.
While you're at it, go ahead and ground your steppers as well. Static from the steppers shocking the drivers is one of the most common issues with the new 32bit boards. Once you start seeing shifts, the driver is already damaged and there is no downside. Creality has shared diagrams with recommended wire lengths.
I've seen somewhere where someone moved it under the bed and drilled new holes in the frame to screw it in there, and they did it so they wouldn't have to worry about that. Seems smart to me.
On the same topic, anyone who owns an Ender 3 V2 should do the same. Some people claim their frames are grounded out of the box, but mine was not. I don’t think it was causing me any issues printing, but I ran a strip of 24V LEDs through my top bar extrusion just to see if they’d fit and I was surprised to see them faintly illuminating! A simple fix that can potentially save your electronics.
Since when aren’t power supply cases already grounded to the plug they’re connected to? Or are you saying in order to ground the frame, not the PSU case? Considering the frame is painted, what exactly are you accomplishing outside of the screws that go into the metal?
@@radicalxedward8047 ground the frame of the printer to the power supply case or better yet to the ground terminal. If the steppers and the bed are not metal mounted to the frame with a continuous ground then they should be grounded also. Basically anything that consumes power should have a good ground 😎
Thanks for this video. I purchased and installed the TH3D kit, which I didn't even know existed until I watched your video. I only needed the TH3D install guide on their website, but your video was a very good overview of what was involved. The OctoPrint Bed Visualizer now shows my Ender 3 V2 bed more level than ever before and test prints are better than before. Thanks for all the great videos!
Concerning Option 3. It looks nice but this option has some issue with the following bed leveling in case, that bed ins’t fixed and especialy at Ender3 is aluminum bed thin and “soft”. I suppose that this solution is better for Voron, Vcore and so on. Therefore I redefined G34 command to the #define Mechanical_gantry_calibration and check linearity of the X gantry via top mechanical (printed) limiters. After that X gantry is parallel with the top frame and then I can run G35 for Assisted tramming for bed level.
10:08 In my experience it does need to match exactly if you are chaining the motors together in series. I used a slightly thinner motor (old extruder) for a second Z axis motor and it got very hot and started skipping steps. I think parallel works better, but might cause overheating of the driver (if I remember correctly)
This video helped me with another issue I’ve been trying to figure out all day thank you 😭 I have a Neptune 4 pro and got the z axis misaligned the part where you showed how to align the axis helped so much
I've gone with option 2. I didn't use belt tensioner and I've just moved the brackets a few mms outer to give timing belt tension. Your video was so useful. Indeed I've stucked that right side of the gantry was about 1cm higher whatever I do. After I tried your solution to unscrew gantry and screw again finally fixed it. Simple solution but I never thought about it. I really appreciate your advise! I also changed to flex couplers after your video.
I love your videos and have watched almost all of them! I'm well versed in the field of programming, but I've only been involved with 3D printers for a year. Thanks to your videos, I quickly found my way around and have no problems upgrading/setting up/creating a firmware or building any 3D printer. Thank you for all your videos, they are really great!
Fantastic write up of this on your website. Thank you for taking the time to build the manual for this. Definitely adding this to my list of future mods.
Great video as always! Though I would like to add one additional method of adding dual Z, which I really only know as it's how my anycubic i3 mega s came stock. Essentially same as the third method, but rather than using an abl sensor, just using a second endstop microswitch. Thus, equipping the printer to have an endstop on connected for both stepper motors. Has the advantage of being cheaper, but admittedly is a lot more limited than the abl method
I have a two Prusa clones that I built myself. On both I use independent Z steppers, and dual Z-endstops to align the Z axis every time it homes. Levelling the bed to a tilted x-axis will result in a skewed X-Z plane.
Doing the first method on my ender 3 v2 for about a month now, and it seems to work well. I also added anti backlash nuts on each gantry mount. Two things though: 1) basically impossible to move the gantry by hand now. I can only do it by twisting the rods or pulling the belt. Just pushing the gantry does not work anymore 2) motor runs a lot hotter at the same vref. So basically the strain on the motor is much higher with all the added friction and weight. As a result, while my machine is now precise enough for z hopping on retraction, I can't really do it, as it will usually have one or two errors, where it skips a step while hopping and ends up to high. Thinking about adding the second stepper (as my rods have equal length its very easy to add), although your advice on how to level the gantry was much better than what I used before and I discovered an offset of maybe 1mm, so I'll test first if that changed something (by adding even more friction) Nonetheless, this massively improved height accuracy. Before my prints would always be 1-2% too short, now they are perfect.
Would you still recommend the belted Z option or go dual motors? I've taken my gantry apart and tried to align everything but just can't seem to get it right and am getting crushed layers for the first 3-4 layers and it's ruining dimensional accuracy.
Thank you for the video. I was using option 1 for the last year. Your excellent instruction will be used as I purchased an extra stepper motor to "migrate" to option 3.
I'm new to this stuff and it'll show, I went option 1 but I have E3MAX so belt isn't long enough. Going 2 or maybe 3 in the future I'm just glad I didn't start pulling it apart before I checked all dimensions. E3MAX prints pretty solidly as is so no real hurry. Top work Michael, keep it up.
Hold the phone. Lets talk about that Spiral flexible coupler you were showing us for a minute. Simply adding that coupler may not fix the issues alone and it may introduce new issues. If you butt both shafts together and coupled them, you have just created a solid column! IF it does flex, it will be pivoting on the face of the shafts and apply a tension to the spiral cut coupler. As the coupler rotates, this tension will act differently. Next- If you leave a gap between the shafts- That is not a real cure either. If the gap is not large enough, the weight of the gantry will compress the slits in the coupler and the shafts will touch. If the gap is to larger the coupler will jsut compress on itself. The solution here is to mount the stepper side so the shaft is fush. Then insert a 1/4" or 6mm ball bearing. This will create the solid column to support the weight of the gantry and also allow flex.
I’m using 5x TMC2209s with an MKS Robin Nano v3 and a dual-motor dual-lead screw setup, after having used a parallel motor arrangement for a little while before that. Option #3 wins, hands down. I even took my top bar mounts offs just to see how the lead screws fared on their own with a precisely leveled gantry. With full torque at either motor and a gantry aligned to within 0.005 of my bed, I can whip the gantry up the full length of the z-axis and back as fast as it will go and only need minor adjustments on the next G34. What’s even better is this z-axis setup combined with GCR’s three-point leveling bed, a glass plate and a BLTouch. I just have to fine-tune my Y-axis tilt manually and get my X-axis tilt reasonably level, and the fine adjustments are accounted for automatically through the gantry level procedure. I get to be lazy *and* have 0.005 tolerance precision from left to right in < 30 seconds. Also, the GCR bed heats up from 24°C to 50°C in less than 60 seconds!
If you are going to do this mount the PS under the Y axis extrusion bar and avoid all of the problems you will create by leaving it to wobble on the back of the base. I will leave my ender as it is, printing perfectly. Your greatest gift to me Micheal has been your calibration tools on GIT HUB. God bless you for those as they have made even my problem machines more usable. Marlin is still a MICROSOFT for me though, forever changing and always confusing and NEVER easy. Happy printing buddy, watch out for those silly ROO's Still waiting to see the RAT RIG go.
I enjoyed the video, I learned a few new things, but alas there is a 4th option. Maybe more of a 3b, if you will. At least, I hope there is. I've got an Eryone Thinker SE, and it came with 2 Z stepper motors and lead screws. It uses 1 driver for both motors. BUT I have upgraded to a board with 5 drivers (was planning on dual extruder but have decided against it for now). So I'll be looking in to doing 2 independent motors but no ABL tech. Rather, adding a 2nd Z end stop. I was hoping your video would cover this, since you really do have a great presentation manner, you are clear and easy to understand. Well, I guess it's off to look up info on how to get each Z motor to auto-home using endstops and not a BL Touch or whatever.
I took my Ender 5 Dual-Z last year as the cantilever bed sags something chronic out of the box. Started with a belt driven second leadscrew with the motor driving the belt, my thinking being that I'd get more even power transmission between the two screws. Turned out I just got very uneven layer movements. Went to a second stepper on the fifth output of the SKR v1.3 in it and the prints are almost perfect.
Some insight though - if you don't have a solid / fixed bed, go with the belt driven setup. If you have an adjustable bed, then you'll end up fighting between levelling the bed and the G34 command - which is an annoying battle. You can get the complete belt with with two new lead screws for ~$20USD. If your printer has a fixed bed, certainly go the path of dual Z motors with independent control - as this is the better option for that scenario.
You can extend this to three Z stepper motors/drivers and make a railcore, I believe just by increasing the number of Z steppers in the firmware to 3 (or more if you have them) and "#define Z_STEPPER_ALIGN_KNOWN_STEPPER_POSITIONS" to tell the firmware the position of the three Z axis rails in the printers XY coordinates so it can move the axis correctly to compensate, then send G34 to auto level the bed (also set all the other changes like defining the correct Z motor drivers and outputs in the firmware etc.). I am planning on breaking down my old Anet A6 which has served me well but is showing its limitations, and making a custom Hypercube/Railcore/Voron/thing printer. Looking at the FYSETC SPIDER mainboard since its reasonably priced and has all the motor driver outputs needed for a railcore (plus two extra driver slots for multi extrusion if you wanted it).
Damn, the timming of this video is scary. I *just* installed a dual Z on my Ender 3, but I got the kit that has two stepper drivers because it's was simpler and cheaper. The whole kit with stepper, Y cable, the lead screw and all the accessories was just $20. :D
I have a dual Z axis stepper motor and I was still having misalignment issues. I fixed this by having my extruder to the right to balance out the weight. I have used a custom G-code that would move my extruder to the right when finished.
What about setting the ounoits for the seconds axis motor? How does the board know where the second z axis motor is? lil confused. Still, an amazing video. Thank you!!
I believe something that is generally not mentioned in these dual Z-axis implementations is that if the three wheels on each side are kept adjusted as they were before installation, it ends up being a redundant mechanical system, resulting in less smooth movement, increasing wear, and friction
I'm going to test this on my chiron and then upgrade my ender to it and my big big printer in the garage definitely needs it as the gantry is 1m wide and tends to go out a little bit every now and again
In my Klipper config. since i got auto bed leveling on all of my printers i use G28 for homing. and G29 for Z tilt/align then ABL. my ender and ET5 already run with dual lead screws. so its just a drop in with a driver and cable, driver for the printers respectivly.
Great video. Thank you for the help. I did the second method. It worked OK but the motors get out of sync all the time. I'm going to add option 1 as soon as I get new screw rods. My work around until then is to put a ruler between the two connecting blocks, and mark a line on them. When I start a new print I merely check their alignment, correct, and proceed. Does anyone know the thread designation of the screw rods? Thank you. Roland
Cool! I am new to 3d printing, and I purchased a Tronxy X5SA-PRO. I am upgrading the mother-board to a, 'FYSETC SPIDER' 446 V2.2, coupled to a 7" touch-screen with a Raspberry Pi 3B+. Right now I am having an issue: My prints start off fine, but part way through the nozzle begins to scrap on the previous layers due to, what I believe, are the axes (x2) are out of sync. At the moment I have her taken apart so that I can start from scratch in an effort to get everything aligned, as well as building a more stable base. I have some holes to drill and tap, while trying to incorporate some less vibration resistant material, (aluminum versus cast iron or steel. I have seen some videos where sand is poured into the recesses of extruded aluminum. I am open to suggestions.) Also, I want to create a 'better' way of mounting the mother-board and touch-screen. Back to the z-axes... I would prefer a closed-loop set-up versus some of the belt style set-ups that I have seen. However... Here is the kicker... I am new to 3d printing. I have some experience with CNC, milling, and I was a kid when DOS was the operating system, giving me a bit of a leg up regarding coding for a beginner. . I have a TON to learn!!! I appreciate any and all constructive criticism. I realize that I am putting a lot out there in a short response, but I am looking for advise while offering my strengths and weaknesses, so I am asking for patience and hoping that the teacher will appear when the student is ready. I don't know anyone locally to turn to for help, but my daughter's high-school is starting a STEM program next year and I am encouraging her to get involved. This way my child can teach me, and I could possibly become involved on some level. the nozzle starts to 'grind' into previous layers. It doesn't simply 'crash into' it, but it starts one layer at a time and it is noticeable due to the sound that it makes. I level it the z-axes several times due to wanting to get it as close as possible, while making sure that I take my time to notice any errors that I may have made. I am going to have to take out the dial indicator and magnetic base, and since I replaced the original bed it will stick in place. I truly love this stuff!!! I would gratefully appreciate any suggestions in regards to my issue with why the nozzle is grinding into my prints.
12:23 i dont understund this. When turn it on dont come back at last leveling? I must rotate leadscrew until reach the other side but not conected to the coupler and motor right? My left side is 1mm up than right. i know i can level the bed but i want to learn to have default X stright and after that if need i do the bed leveling.
LOL Michael, who is that little kid we see for a split second at 18:28?? LOL Anyways, great video and I'm happy you used the Ender 3 Pro for this test. I was looking into getting a dual Z kit that has everything you need. Would you recommend a complete kit or what you showed in the video? Thanks again for the great info! I always look forward to your video wisdom! Happy 3D printing!
Nice feature to have that I will add to my old and hyper-modified Tevo Tarantula. Just one suggestion: You could have done the gantry alignment using the dial gauge and magnetic base, that you showcased in a previous video.
For the dual z-axis motors with dual drivers: Is there not a possibility to have a home switch on each z-axis? That would eliminate a lot of problems. With the G34 code it is assumed that the bed is level. When homing both z-axes one assures that the gantry is alway referenced with respect to the frame, and not the bed.
With reference to time stamp 14:45. Using Marlin 2.1.1 and can not find line 593 (number of Stepper Drivers) anywhere in Config H nor Config Adv H? I checked everywhere. Any help would be appreciated.
I realize this video is old but 'why' unplug the stepper motor to 'protect' the mainboard (from what?) as suggested at 9:05 if the printer is unplugged?
If I mount a second indipendent z motor with linear rails, do i stil need to software calibrate 'em? Or would it be more harm than good? Given the higher stiffness of the structure, that removes asimmetry by itself, I wonder if letting the motors move indipendently could led in breaking somenthing and just "good assembling"/"phisical calibration" would be enough
Getting ready to do method 2 (Kit are sold for this on Amazon for like $40-$50). My only concern is with the board being over driven trying to drive two stepper motors. Any comments on this topic and or how to adjust if possible? Or do the newer boards have enough power to drive two steppers? I just upgraded to Creality's 4.2.7 board, with the LCD w/knob display. I( also have the new CR Touch and Jyler's Marlin firmware so there is that load on the board as well.
Your driver's are good for just under 3A peak 2A continuous. Most 3D printer steppers take under 1A, so you're fine. You will have to adjust the pot on the board to give it more power but otherwise you should be fine.
Impressive so much from TH3D was used in this video. They're in the USA and shipping to another country right now is expensive and slow. Props to you for utilizing them
Please Produce a Video that demonstrates how to properly setup & configure "G34" (Dual Z-Axis Alignment For Marlin), But instead of showing the process with Marlin, show us the process for those of us who use Klipper. From my understanding, Klipper does have something called "Z_Tilt" Which is the "G34" For Klipper. Thank you for all of the time and effort you have put into teaching the world about 3D printing; Or should I say Teaching Tech 😅
Hey, I am making my own extender kit and just wondering if it would work to just solder on another wire to the existing wire for each stepper motor or if that would in any way neagtively effect the printer?
It then makes it more level wrt to the two measuring points, in several iterations, until it's satisfied or it can't improve anymore. Once that's achieved it runs another auto bed leveling to find the other uneven-ness in the board. When leveling the z-Axis, once the two sides are at the same height, all z-Input will be forwarded to both motors at the same time. These motors are super precise, so it's basically as if there was only one motor, but now that motor is even on both sides. The only reason to have two motors is to give them a chance to "automatically" adjust each side so it's parallel to the board. In general, the "leveling" part is just to synchronize the motors while disregarding deformation from the frame of the printer, which can change / vary from assembly / temperature / touch while the printer is turned off.
I ordered the dual motor z axis kit and also the belt drive kit. Is there any reason I can't run both motors with the timing belt so they stay in sync?
Nope, I did exactly that. Except I wouldn't recommend the kit where the belt goes on top of the gantry and the screws are fixed on the top (want no rigidity here) but instead the z-axis kit with the movable axle hole, two 20t pulleys and a 610mm belt, maybe stretch it a tiny bit beforehand so it's not super tight: it's not meant to transmit torque just keep the screws in-sync. It's a lot of work to get everything lined up perfectly so the timing belt is somehow both tensioned and not putting any tension on the screws so they can wiggle around a bit and the gantry is both square to the frame and not binding anywhere. Just have to keep moving the gantry up and down while you tighten and loosen parts to get everything settled in just the right places. I have it running for a while now with zero desyncs and no z-banding or other artifacts anywhere. Make sure you disconnect the steppers while moving the gantry up and down so you don't damage your control board. Even so if you messed it up you will probably cause a lot of current draw from the motors which can tip current limiting, maybe damage the board or overheat the motors.
How many RPM is that blower? I did the dual Z motorized but I reverted to the dual Z single motor because I did direct drive and I had a spare 42-40 from the extrusor. The new Ender 3 V3 SE uses dual Z one bigger motor. I did vertical and rigid coupling but put Oldham because when you tighten top belt, tends to bend the lead screws. The single stepper needs to raise to near 1.38v the Z onto the mainboard.
Good stuff, I just installed a new stepper version of dual Z. Like a dope I didn't even think of sticking a couple of pieces of wood in to align it! So next on the list is G34 which feels a little distant right now as have new SKR e3 v3 boards to configure. The last time I compiled Marlin was years ago, so looks like I will be reliving that again and watching old videos of yours (can still remember frantically scribbling notes, pausing, and rewinding). I could have probably just brought a new printer over my Enders, but am sentimental about them now. Am looking forwards to seeing your music career take off any day now! Did you use just one flexy joiner or two (one for each side).
with Option 2, when you lower the gantry down to the blocks (i'm using 123 blocks), what is the best method to align the gantry to the blocks? Loosen the screws on the gantry mounts?
The accuracy of the Ender-3 series with a single Z drive screw shouldn't be any worse than many of the smaller printers with cantilevered X axis support, such as the Prusa mini, Ender-2 series, and the old PrinterBot mini series. In fact, it should be a bit better because there IS some extra support provided by the guide rollers on the un-driven side, especially if the rollers are correctly adjusted and tensioned. If you are driving two stepper motors off of one driver there are two options: Wire the stepper motors in parallel, or wire them in series. Depending on the motor ratings the series connection may be a better choice as you won't have to re-adjust the drive current on the board. However, when wired in series both motors MUST be IDENTICAL. If you wire them in parallel, the motors can be different (but should match somewhat in voltage and current) , but you will have to adjust the drive current to provide some more current to power the additional motor.
GREAT video! Thank you so much!! I have one question. Option 3 (Ender 3 Pro): This is the only place I've found so far which says to plug the 2nd Z stepper into the E1 slot on the SKR E3 Turbo board. Is there an issue with plugging it into the Z2 slot? I'm working on syncing my 2 Z steppers, as one is either moving more quickly or binding and skipping steps. Just wondering if moving the 2nd Z stepper from Z2 => E1 would help or not.
When adding a second stepper motor with a Y adapter the current from the driver board is now shared with both motors. I am seeing some random stalling of the motors. What would be the current or Ref voltage set to when using two motors?
I love this but having difficulties with Klipper I followed you klipper config now I don't use marlin could you do a tutorial how to configure on klipper I have a e3 turbo and I been following you would be great or even a tip 😀
are there any possible problems with power supplied to the second motor in the second scenario? Could f/e the mainboard not be able to supply enough current for both motors?
is it possible to do Z-axis calibration with the BIGTREETECH SKR Mini E3 V3.0 because in the description it says "Add parallel double Z-axis interfaces"
thank you for this precious info. for the TMC2208 v3.0 can we configure them in UART for method 3 of synchronization of the two Z axes? Thank you for your time
Hello, thanks again for this very informative video. I wonder where you got your Xaxis linear rail along with its hotend mount. . It'll be very convenient for my old tevo tarantula that I try to upgrade with the dual color hotend that you presented in your previous video. Thanks
The second item is the lead screws, and the printers don't use the proper coupling, bearings, and support. Supporting the lead screw with the coupler and the stepper is wrong. The steppers bearings are not intended for this. Also, the stepper and the flex type couple will add compliance to the system. The way to do it is to capture the lead screw and use thrust bearing for the axial load. ball bears for the radial load. For anti-backlash I used a wave spring on the lead screw. For the lead nut I use the traditional anti backlash lead nut. Everything is stable and I can even remove the steppers and leadscrews stay in place.
Thanks for the great video. Could you consider including printed object reloaction as this potentially reduce the need for the above. I have had an alfawise u20 sat around for ages and there has been quite a large learning curve and it is easy to spend a lot of money if struggling to get your first print as thee is always something better. I am not interested in models and was mainly wanting 3d printing for practical things such as for tool batteries, and fixing items that have broken such as flymo hinge pins and plastic parts of an electric item that have dropped damaging its charging port seating, cogs for electric tools etc. These are all small items and relocation to the motor side would minimise discrepancies in height across the z axis. I was thinking about the swiss knife hotend clone from dragonlabs, or their volcano +- there nickel clad copper heat block or the supervolcano because I think teh print times are too long. Then the issues of whether it is worth getting a direct drive extruder and whether this would mean it would benefit from another z axis which is how I started looking at this. I managed to print a flymo hinge pin but it just broke and I will try again with greater infill. My point really was that there must be lots of people like me and it is easy to get into buying a lot of things you don't need out of frustration. Comparison of hotends are not available with physical measurments. It is interesting of getting a good printflow requires on adequate heating which depends on the material of the block e.g. copper versus aluminium (3x conductiv brass) with adequate coating eg nickel , longer hotend such as volcano, or multi inlet nozzle to allow increased surface area for heating (which may not need volcano to achieve the same thing in terms of cubic volume of melted filament that can be extruded.) This is another potential video.
A few things if you're trying to make your z axis and prints as perfect as possible:
- don't use the power supply relocation shown in the video. This is hanging loose off the end and will vibrate and cause oscillations which can produce ringing artifacts. There are options on thingiverse that add more structural rigidity. The one in the video can be salvaged by printing and gluing a cube to the underside to support it.
- use the dual independent z motor upgrade (option 3). This is the only way to leave the lead screw loose at the top. You specifically DO NOT want to have the lead screw constrained at the top.
Lead screws are not accurate parts and are not rigid. They are not meant to be constrained at the top. As seen in the video, the 2nd option introduced z banding. The flexible Z coupler did help fix it, but constraining it from the top and bottom will still reduce quality. For that reason you want 2 individual motors and lead screws without clamping at the top.
I found the mount that came with my dual z axis kit caused the second motor to be very misaligned with the vertical extrusion.. so some adjustments needed there, plus the flexible couplers helped a lot m.imgur.com/a/5mfvf7M
@@PureRushXevus That's unfortunate, it's good that the flex coupler helped. Those pictures are a great example of the rigidity of a lead screw, aka none. Despite it being bent like that, provided it has sufficient play (which you improved with the flex coupler) it shouldn't be too bad.
That is because the path of the lead screw itself is what is constrained. If the lead screw bends, there will be less resistance against the path that the x gantry mount is trying to force it along.
Something in the system has to give to the inaccuracy of the lead screw. If you add a solid clamping on the bottom and the top, then you are likely to force the x gantry out of line slightly and get the artifacts shown in the video. Of course, getting a straighter leadscrew could probably help in your case too.
If you look at the videos by MirageC explaining the ball screw system on his printer, it helps understand the purpose of the leadscrew a bit more. Deckingman also has a good video about leadscrews.
@@lllllllllllillllllll Cool, yeah you really see the top of the leadscrew move around a fair amount when printing sometimes if it's not perfectly aligned, so I now understand why having that free is important :p
@@autogyro333 In option 2 the secondary one is fine since it's only attached at the top. However, the motorized one becomes constrained at the top and bottom. A flex coupler may or may not be able to compensate for this depending on the leadscrew.
I'm guessing you're suggesting building some guard around the leadscrew that doesn't actually connect to it? It should be fine provided it doesn't constrain the leadscrew. If it does, just make sure it doesn't constrain it too much or you'll likely start to see some artifacts show up in your prints. Since it's a printed part there isn't much harm in trying it out as you could remove it later.
or you build the belted z axis mod for the ender like in the voron v2.
If modified the mod a little for mor rigidity but other than that it runs very well.
Michael, thanks for using my design for the power supply relocation; I'm honored!
That ending was totally unexpected 😂. Brilliant.
I added the g34 command to my startup script a few months ago and since then I get a perfect first layer every time, well worth implementing
If you have abl do you need to replace the board? I have sv03 that already had 2 rods and abl
Pro tip: before starting a major upgrade on your printer, make sure that you have already printed out any parts necessary first.
During my last major upgrade, I had already my printer halfway torn apart before I realized "hey, uhh, didn't I need some printed parts for this mod?"
Or you could use this as the perfect excuse to get another printer! "Honey, I need a printer so that I can finish upgrading my printer..." ;-)
Been running the dual-z from a single motor for years now, highly recommend it over the other options, it encourages you to understand where things bind and get everything resolved and properly settled and in-sync/parallel. Nothing can drift out of sync on it's own and I haven't had to level the bed since. Thrust bearings and a shaft clamp keep the smaller threaded rod from popping up into the air, you'll want to fully constrain that instead of relying on gravity.
I watched this whole video twice and after having my own binding issues as well as gantry sag I believe you are right. I have a question and a request: What happens if it's too much on one motor? Motor failure, or driver failure? And second can you explain what you were saying about a coupler at the end of your post? Thanks
@@15RunAway @Dan Cantrell good questions. Too much for one motor: it will skip steps and you will usually hear it, adding a second z rod adds a little bit of friction, but really you are balancing out the existing load in a much more controlled way.
For the last part, when you belt the z the second lead screw basically hangs from the top of the block, the thrust bearings help with friction better than a normal bearing, and the shaft collar goes on the underside with another thrust bearing, it restrains that lead screw from ejecting itself partways up and keeps things more rigidly constrained. Ideally gravity is enough for this, but I felt the need to do this and think it helps.
@@RooboticsIt helps a lot! I really appreciate you taking time to answer my questions..I have 3 Creality printers and only two have ABL sensors. I figure the only reason I haven't really come to the point of thinking seriously about dual Z's is probably because anytime I've tampered with the X axis and got the level off all I had to do is probe out another bed mesh, but it gets old doing it manually on this one that isn't equipped with a probe.. I thought about spending my $50 monthly hobby allowance on another probe or doing the dual lead screw. I feel that the CR Touch is kinda like putting a bandaid on a splinter without first removing the splinter if that makes sense.. And I've also did a direct drive upgrade on it recently too, so that adds some weight to it as well. But I'm like you, I like the simplicity the single motor belted Z, of keeping it free of potential points of binding and such. Your thoughts?
You have those that say a dual Z should have dual steppers with their own drivers because the dual steppers split puts too much on a single driver. And some say the single stepper belted Z does what you said and puts too much on the stepper and causes skips, but I'm not one that's gotta print at 100mmps. And you said you've been doing it for years so that's what I want to do.. I've always been one that want to do things right but a lot of times it doesn't have to be the biggest and most expensive way in order to do it right..
@@15RunAway I wouldn't say putting two lead screws on a single stepper will cause skips, I think this only happens if your gantry is binding or is very heavy, at the start of my conversion I had hidden binding I had to resolve(also I am using direct drive fyi), by the time I was finished it was so frictionless I nearly had to worry about it slipping down when unpowered. If anything, a tuned dual-z is easier on the motor.. single-z is very much like trying to lift a weight from across the room on a board, and what's keeping it from falling away from you is a wheel rolling against the far wall. That friction isn't free either, and it's a very awkward way to deal with the weight vs lifting from both sides, imo!
Hehe that was a fantastic ending. Was very unexpected.
As always, excellent video !!
That should be the new intro music as well!
I have just installed the creality Z axis kit on my Ender 3 V2 ( AU$51.00 from Banggood). This kit is supplied the the power supply mounting bracket for Ender 3 and Pro as well as a connection cable for the single plug on the control board. I have increased the Z stepper motor current to 700mA (I have a E3 mini V2 board and tft 35 E3 Display as I did not like the standalone stepper drivers of the original 4.2.2 board).
of all the channels on here you win the prize for the best and most instructive information you are the best.
That kazoo ending
*chef's kiss*
lol waited for this video for a long time, I already installed my dual z and linear rails on the z a month ago (I went for the belt system) and from the experience I have with the installation, I can say you covered most of the things, but for the linear rails (what you didn't covert in this video) I had problems with aligning the frame, took me 2 months to figure out that both of the aluminum extrusion of the z-axis wasn't parallel to each other and I used alignment tools for the linear rails and they should have been parallel with that tool but the problem in the end was with the frame.
So my tip is if you have issues with getting it to work properly, check the frame if it aligned and parallel to each other (it can be an issue also with v rollers)
I was a huge fan of option 3 and used it for years but it's very likely that you'll get worse prints than just with a single Z because it's almost guaranteed that one of the Z steppers will skip sometime during the print and BAM now you have a crooked gantry mid-print. Then I saw a printer with option 1 installed and it ran for years without needing any adjustment. Don't overcomplicate things, the best is always the simplest.
It sound like torque problems, if the driver of the board cannot give the necessary current you can try to connect the motors in series instead of parallel.
I did the proper printing belt version a while ago. To level I just loosened the z motor coupler, put a bubble level on the x gantry, and adjusted. It worked well and was really quick and easy.
hi, i want to do the proper printing method too, u recomened it? any suggestion?
Everyone who moves the power supply should be adding a ground wire from the power supply case back to a secure solid mount point on the frame.
While you're at it, go ahead and ground your steppers as well. Static from the steppers shocking the drivers is one of the most common issues with the new 32bit boards. Once you start seeing shifts, the driver is already damaged and there is no downside. Creality has shared diagrams with recommended wire lengths.
I've seen somewhere where someone moved it under the bed and drilled new holes in the frame to screw it in there, and they did it so they wouldn't have to worry about that. Seems smart to me.
On the same topic, anyone who owns an Ender 3 V2 should do the same. Some people claim their frames are grounded out of the box, but mine was not. I don’t think it was causing me any issues printing, but I ran a strip of 24V LEDs through my top bar extrusion just to see if they’d fit and I was surprised to see them faintly illuminating!
A simple fix that can potentially save your electronics.
Since when aren’t power supply cases already grounded to the plug they’re connected to? Or are you saying in order to ground the frame, not the PSU case?
Considering the frame is painted, what exactly are you accomplishing outside of the screws that go into the metal?
@@radicalxedward8047 ground the frame of the printer to the power supply case or better yet to the ground terminal. If the steppers and the bed are not metal mounted to the frame with a continuous ground then they should be grounded also. Basically anything that consumes power should have a good ground 😎
YESSSSS!!! Double Thumbs Up and a share for that shout out to ProperPrinting!!! Way to throw it back to the community, my friend!
Thanks for this video. I purchased and installed the TH3D kit, which I didn't even know existed until I watched your video. I only needed the TH3D install guide on their website, but your video was a very good overview of what was involved. The OctoPrint Bed Visualizer now shows my Ender 3 V2 bed more level than ever before and test prints are better than before. Thanks for all the great videos!
My favorite 3d printer teacher here again with another video
Concerning Option 3. It looks nice but this option has some issue with the following bed leveling in case, that bed ins’t fixed and especialy at Ender3 is aluminum bed thin and “soft”. I suppose that this solution is better for Voron, Vcore and so on. Therefore I redefined G34 command to the #define Mechanical_gantry_calibration and check linearity of the X gantry via top mechanical (printed) limiters. After that X gantry is parallel with the top frame and then I can run G35 for Assisted tramming for bed level.
10:08 In my experience it does need to match exactly if you are chaining the motors together in series. I used a slightly thinner motor (old extruder) for a second Z axis motor and it got very hot and started skipping steps. I think parallel works better, but might cause overheating of the driver (if I remember correctly)
In series, the one that has the lowest equivalent series resistant will effectively be doing most of the work for both motors.
This video helped me with another issue I’ve been trying to figure out all day thank you 😭 I have a Neptune 4 pro and got the z axis misaligned the part where you showed how to align the axis helped so much
I've gone with option 2.
I didn't use belt tensioner and I've just moved the brackets a few mms outer to give timing belt tension. Your video was so useful. Indeed I've stucked that right side of the gantry was about 1cm higher whatever I do. After I tried your solution to unscrew gantry and screw again finally fixed it. Simple solution but I never thought about it. I really appreciate your advise! I also changed to flex couplers after your video.
I love your videos and have watched almost all of them!
I'm well versed in the field of programming, but I've only been involved with 3D printers for a year. Thanks to your videos, I quickly found my way around and have no problems upgrading/setting up/creating a firmware or building any 3D printer.
Thank you for all your videos, they are really great!
Fantastic write up of this on your website. Thank you for taking the time to build the manual for this. Definitely adding this to my list of future mods.
Don't. There's a better belted mod out there.
@@alejandroperez5368 Can you post a link to the one you are talking about? Thanks...
Fantastic ending and Loved this video. Glad this one made it.
i did that one guys belt driven z mod for ender 3, layers are so beautiful and consistent now
I got a dual stepper motor upgrade from banggood for my ender 3 v2 for about 45 usd
Works great.
I loved the kazoo to end it off. Well done!
This is a great video , very helpful. Very good and detailed explained 🙂Thanks a lot.
Great video as always! Though I would like to add one additional method of adding dual Z, which I really only know as it's how my anycubic i3 mega s came stock. Essentially same as the third method, but rather than using an abl sensor, just using a second endstop microswitch. Thus, equipping the printer to have an endstop on connected for both stepper motors. Has the advantage of being cheaper, but admittedly is a lot more limited than the abl method
you know its getting cold down under when Michael starts wearing a hoodie
I have had the TH3D single motor kit sitting to install for almost a year. I guess this means I will have to pull it out and install it now.
I have a two Prusa clones that I built myself. On both I use independent Z steppers, and dual Z-endstops to align the Z axis every time it homes. Levelling the bed to a tilted x-axis will result in a skewed X-Z plane.
Doing the first method on my ender 3 v2 for about a month now, and it seems to work well. I also added anti backlash nuts on each gantry mount.
Two things though:
1) basically impossible to move the gantry by hand now. I can only do it by twisting the rods or pulling the belt. Just pushing the gantry does not work anymore
2) motor runs a lot hotter at the same vref.
So basically the strain on the motor is much higher with all the added friction and weight. As a result, while my machine is now precise enough for z hopping on retraction, I can't really do it, as it will usually have one or two errors, where it skips a step while hopping and ends up to high.
Thinking about adding the second stepper (as my rods have equal length its very easy to add), although your advice on how to level the gantry was much better than what I used before and I discovered an offset of maybe 1mm, so I'll test first if that changed something (by adding even more friction)
Nonetheless, this massively improved height accuracy. Before my prints would always be 1-2% too short, now they are perfect.
Would you still recommend the belted Z option or go dual motors? I've taken my gantry apart and tried to align everything but just can't seem to get it right and am getting crushed layers for the first 3-4 layers and it's ruining dimensional accuracy.
Thank you for the video. I was using option 1 for the last year. Your excellent instruction will be used as I purchased an extra stepper motor to "migrate" to option 3.
I'm new to this stuff and it'll show, I went option 1 but I have E3MAX so belt isn't long enough. Going 2 or maybe 3 in the future I'm just glad I didn't start pulling it apart before I checked all dimensions. E3MAX prints pretty solidly as is so no real hurry. Top work Michael, keep it up.
ive got a 3max and gone with option 2
Hold the phone. Lets talk about that Spiral flexible coupler you were showing us for a minute. Simply adding that coupler may not fix the issues alone and it may introduce new issues. If you butt both shafts together and coupled them, you have just created a solid column! IF it does flex, it will be pivoting on the face of the shafts and apply a tension to the spiral cut coupler. As the coupler rotates, this tension will act differently. Next- If you leave a gap between the shafts- That is not a real cure either. If the gap is not large enough, the weight of the gantry will compress the slits in the coupler and the shafts will touch. If the gap is to larger the coupler will jsut compress on itself. The solution here is to mount the stepper side so the shaft is fush. Then insert a 1/4" or 6mm ball bearing. This will create the solid column to support the weight of the gantry and also allow flex.
Thank you for taking your time to create a very in depth and informative video.
I’m using 5x TMC2209s with an MKS Robin Nano v3 and a dual-motor dual-lead screw setup, after having used a parallel motor arrangement for a little while before that.
Option #3 wins, hands down. I even took my top bar mounts offs just to see how the lead screws fared on their own with a precisely leveled gantry. With full torque at either motor and a gantry aligned to within 0.005 of my bed, I can whip the gantry up the full length of the z-axis and back as fast as it will go and only need minor adjustments on the next G34.
What’s even better is this z-axis setup combined with GCR’s three-point leveling bed, a glass plate and a BLTouch. I just have to fine-tune my Y-axis tilt manually and get my X-axis tilt reasonably level, and the fine adjustments are accounted for automatically through the gantry level procedure. I get to be lazy *and* have 0.005 tolerance precision from left to right in < 30 seconds. Also, the GCR bed heats up from 24°C to 50°C in less than 60 seconds!
If you are going to do this mount the PS under the Y axis extrusion bar and avoid all of the problems you will create by leaving it to wobble on the back of the base. I will leave my ender as it is, printing perfectly. Your greatest gift to me Micheal has been your calibration tools on GIT HUB. God bless you for those as they have made even my problem machines more usable. Marlin is still a MICROSOFT for me though, forever changing and always confusing and NEVER easy. Happy printing buddy, watch out for those silly ROO's Still waiting to see the RAT RIG go.
You can relocate the pulleys under the bearing block to keep the z steppers synchronized and prevent having to relevel
Great Videos!
Please do a video on Y-axis (or any axis) tuning with closed loop stepper drivers from BTT.
I enjoyed the video, I learned a few new things, but alas there is a 4th option. Maybe more of a 3b, if you will. At least, I hope there is.
I've got an Eryone Thinker SE, and it came with 2 Z stepper motors and lead screws. It uses 1 driver for both motors. BUT I have upgraded to a board with 5 drivers (was planning on dual extruder but have decided against it for now). So I'll be looking in to doing 2 independent motors but no ABL tech. Rather, adding a 2nd Z end stop. I was hoping your video would cover this, since you really do have a great presentation manner, you are clear and easy to understand.
Well, I guess it's off to look up info on how to get each Z motor to auto-home using endstops and not a BL Touch or whatever.
I took my Ender 5 Dual-Z last year as the cantilever bed sags something chronic out of the box. Started with a belt driven second leadscrew with the motor driving the belt, my thinking being that I'd get more even power transmission between the two screws. Turned out I just got very uneven layer movements. Went to a second stepper on the fifth output of the SKR v1.3 in it and the prints are almost perfect.
Some insight though - if you don't have a solid / fixed bed, go with the belt driven setup. If you have an adjustable bed, then you'll end up fighting between levelling the bed and the G34 command - which is an annoying battle. You can get the complete belt with with two new lead screws for ~$20USD.
If your printer has a fixed bed, certainly go the path of dual Z motors with independent control - as this is the better option for that scenario.
You can extend this to three Z stepper motors/drivers and make a railcore, I believe just by increasing the number of Z steppers in the firmware to 3 (or more if you have them) and "#define Z_STEPPER_ALIGN_KNOWN_STEPPER_POSITIONS" to tell the firmware the position of the three Z axis rails in the printers XY coordinates so it can move the axis correctly to compensate, then send G34 to auto level the bed (also set all the other changes like defining the correct Z motor drivers and outputs in the firmware etc.).
I am planning on breaking down my old Anet A6 which has served me well but is showing its limitations, and making a custom Hypercube/Railcore/Voron/thing printer. Looking at the FYSETC SPIDER mainboard since its reasonably priced and has all the motor driver outputs needed for a railcore (plus two extra driver slots for multi extrusion if you wanted it).
This just saved my day! Thanks for these vids
Damn, the timming of this video is scary. I *just* installed a dual Z on my Ender 3, but I got the kit that has two stepper drivers because it's was simpler and cheaper. The whole kit with stepper, Y cable, the lead screw and all the accessories was just $20. :D
Where did you get the kit from?
I have a dual Z axis stepper motor and I was still having misalignment issues. I fixed this by having my extruder to the right to balance out the weight. I have used a custom G-code that would move my extruder to the right when finished.
The end was quite funny!
Very nice and timely! Thank you!
What about setting the ounoits for the seconds axis motor? How does the board know where the second z axis motor is? lil confused. Still, an amazing video. Thank you!!
Was thinking of doing this with an ender extender kit for my ender 3 v2 just because of the distance between the uprights.
Go for the belted z mod. Its even better
9:06 oh a PS vita i see, a man of culture 👍
Good coverage. I guess I'll be embedding this video on the G34 page now!
Do you recommend two flexible couplers or just on one side? Great video, keep up the good work!
I believe something that is generally not mentioned in these dual Z-axis implementations is that if the three wheels on each side are kept adjusted as they were before installation, it ends up being a redundant mechanical system, resulting in less smooth movement, increasing wear, and friction
I'm going to test this on my chiron and then upgrade my ender to it and my big big printer in the garage definitely needs it as the gantry is 1m wide and tends to go out a little bit every now and again
In my Klipper config. since i got auto bed leveling on all of my printers i use G28 for homing. and G29 for Z tilt/align then ABL. my ender and ET5 already run with dual lead screws. so its just a drop in with a driver and cable, driver for the printers respectivly.
Great video. Thank you for the help. I did the second method. It worked OK but the motors get out of sync all the time. I'm going to add option 1 as soon as I get new screw rods. My work around until then is to put a ruler between the two connecting blocks, and mark a line on them. When I start a new print I merely check their alignment, correct, and proceed. Does anyone know the thread designation of the screw rods? Thank you. Roland
nice video
Been thinking about this for ages lol
Cool!
I am new to 3d printing, and I purchased a Tronxy X5SA-PRO. I am upgrading the mother-board to a,
'FYSETC SPIDER' 446 V2.2, coupled to a 7" touch-screen with a Raspberry Pi 3B+.
Right now I am having an issue: My prints start off fine, but part way through the nozzle begins to scrap
on the previous layers due to, what I believe, are the axes (x2) are out of sync. At the moment I have her taken apart
so that I can start from scratch in an effort to get everything aligned, as well as building a more stable base. I have some holes to drill and tap, while trying to incorporate some less vibration resistant material, (aluminum versus cast iron or steel. I have seen some videos where sand is poured into the recesses of extruded aluminum. I am open to suggestions.) Also, I want to create a 'better' way of mounting the mother-board and touch-screen.
Back to the z-axes... I would prefer a closed-loop set-up versus some of the belt style set-ups that I have seen. However... Here is the kicker... I am new to 3d printing. I have some experience with CNC, milling, and I was a kid when DOS was the operating system, giving me a bit of a leg up regarding coding for a beginner. . I have a TON to learn!!! I appreciate any and all
constructive criticism. I realize that I am putting a lot out there in a short response, but I am looking for advise while offering my strengths and weaknesses, so I am asking for patience and hoping that the teacher will appear when the student is ready.
I don't know anyone locally to turn to for help, but my daughter's high-school is starting a STEM program next year and I am encouraging her to get involved. This way my child can teach me, and I could possibly become involved on some level. the nozzle starts to 'grind' into previous layers. It doesn't simply 'crash into' it, but it starts one layer at a time and it is noticeable due to the sound that it makes. I level it the z-axes several times due to wanting to get it as close as possible, while making sure that I take my time to notice any errors that I may have made. I am going to have to take out the dial indicator and magnetic base, and since I replaced the original bed it will stick in place. I truly love this stuff!!!
I would gratefully appreciate any suggestions in regards to my issue with why the nozzle is grinding
into my prints.
12:23 i dont understund this. When turn it on dont come back at last leveling?
I must rotate leadscrew until reach the other side but not conected to the coupler and motor right?
My left side is 1mm up than right. i know i can level the bed but i want to learn to have default X stright and after that if need i do the bed leveling.
LOL Michael, who is that little kid we see for a split second at 18:28?? LOL
Anyways, great video and I'm happy you used the Ender 3 Pro for this test. I was looking into getting a dual Z kit that has everything you need. Would you recommend a complete kit or what you showed in the video? Thanks again for the great info! I always look forward to your video wisdom! Happy 3D printing!
Great timing. I just bought a z kit!
Nice feature to have that I will add to my old and hyper-modified Tevo Tarantula.
Just one suggestion:
You could have done the gantry alignment using the dial gauge and magnetic base, that you showcased in a previous video.
For the dual z-axis motors with dual drivers: Is there not a possibility to have a home switch on each z-axis? That would eliminate a lot of problems. With the G34 code it is assumed that the bed is level. When homing both z-axes one assures that the gantry is alway referenced with respect to the frame, and not the bed.
With reference to time stamp 14:45. Using Marlin 2.1.1 and can not find line 593 (number of Stepper Drivers) anywhere in Config H nor Config Adv H? I checked everywhere. Any help would be appreciated.
I realize this video is old but 'why' unplug the stepper motor to 'protect' the mainboard (from what?) as suggested at 9:05 if the printer is unplugged?
If I mount a second indipendent z motor with linear rails, do i stil need to software calibrate 'em? Or would it be more harm than good?
Given the higher stiffness of the structure, that removes asimmetry by itself, I wonder if letting the motors move indipendently could led in breaking somenthing and just "good assembling"/"phisical calibration" would be enough
And suddenly I have an extra stepper motor and parts on the way in the mail :)
Getting ready to do method 2 (Kit are sold for this on Amazon for like $40-$50). My only concern is with the board being over driven trying to drive two stepper motors. Any comments on this topic and or how to adjust if possible? Or do the newer boards have enough power to drive two steppers? I just upgraded to Creality's 4.2.7 board, with the LCD w/knob display. I( also have the new CR Touch and Jyler's Marlin firmware so there is that load on the board as well.
Your driver's are good for just under 3A peak 2A continuous. Most 3D printer steppers take under 1A, so you're fine. You will have to adjust the pot on the board to give it more power but otherwise you should be fine.
Impressive so much from TH3D was used in this video. They're in the USA and shipping to another country right now is expensive and slow. Props to you for utilizing them
Please Produce a Video that demonstrates how to properly setup & configure "G34" (Dual Z-Axis Alignment For Marlin), But instead of showing the process with Marlin, show us the process for those of us who use Klipper.
From my understanding, Klipper does have something called "Z_Tilt" Which is the "G34" For Klipper.
Thank you for all of the time and effort you have put into teaching the world about 3D printing;
Or should I say Teaching Tech 😅
Hey, I am making my own extender kit and just wondering if it would work to just solder on another wire to the existing wire for each stepper motor or if that would in any way neagtively effect the printer?
So my question is: what does the g34 command do when the bed is unlevel? Does it just make it crooked according to the parallel-ness of the bed?
It then makes it more level wrt to the two measuring points, in several iterations, until it's satisfied or it can't improve anymore. Once that's achieved it runs another auto bed leveling to find the other uneven-ness in the board.
When leveling the z-Axis, once the two sides are at the same height, all z-Input will be forwarded to both motors at the same time. These motors are super precise, so it's basically as if there was only one motor, but now that motor is even on both sides. The only reason to have two motors is to give them a chance to "automatically" adjust each side so it's parallel to the board.
In general, the "leveling" part is just to synchronize the motors while disregarding deformation from the frame of the printer, which can change / vary from assembly / temperature / touch while the printer is turned off.
With more than a year of these possibilities, it would be nice to see a comparison of results.
Does that video already exist?
Does the Ender 3 V2 board have the ability to do G34 or is an upgraded board like the BTT SKR E3 Turbo required?
I ordered the dual motor z axis kit and also the belt drive kit. Is there any reason I can't run both motors with the timing belt so they stay in sync?
Nope, I did exactly that.
Except I wouldn't recommend the kit where the belt goes on top of the gantry and the screws are fixed on the top (want no rigidity here) but instead the z-axis kit with the movable axle hole, two 20t pulleys and a 610mm belt, maybe stretch it a tiny bit beforehand so it's not super tight: it's not meant to transmit torque just keep the screws in-sync.
It's a lot of work to get everything lined up perfectly so the timing belt is somehow both tensioned and not putting any tension on the screws so they can wiggle around a bit and the gantry is both square to the frame and not binding anywhere. Just have to keep moving the gantry up and down while you tighten and loosen parts to get everything settled in just the right places. I have it running for a while now with zero desyncs and no z-banding or other artifacts anywhere.
Make sure you disconnect the steppers while moving the gantry up and down so you don't damage your control board. Even so if you messed it up you will probably cause a lot of current draw from the motors which can tip current limiting, maybe damage the board or overheat the motors.
Any chance you could share links to all of the upgrades that you have on the Ender 3?
How many RPM is that blower?
I did the dual Z motorized but I reverted to the dual Z single motor because I did direct drive and I had a spare 42-40 from the extrusor. The new Ender 3 V3 SE uses dual Z one bigger motor.
I did vertical and rigid coupling but put Oldham because when you tighten top belt, tends to bend the lead screws. The single stepper needs to raise to near 1.38v the Z onto the mainboard.
Is the SKR E3 Turbo mainboard no longer available?
None of the links have any stock and I can't find it on the suppliers website...
Good stuff, I just installed a new stepper version of dual Z. Like a dope I didn't even think of sticking a couple of pieces of wood in to align it! So next on the list is G34 which feels a little distant right now as have new SKR e3 v3 boards to configure. The last time I compiled Marlin was years ago, so looks like I will be reliving that again and watching old videos of yours (can still remember frantically scribbling notes, pausing, and rewinding). I could have probably just brought a new printer over my Enders, but am sentimental about them now. Am looking forwards to seeing your music career take off any day now! Did you use just one flexy joiner or two (one for each side).
with Option 2, when you lower the gantry down to the blocks (i'm using 123 blocks), what is the best method to align the gantry to the blocks? Loosen the screws on the gantry mounts?
The accuracy of the Ender-3 series with a single Z drive screw shouldn't be any worse than many of the smaller printers with cantilevered X axis support, such as the Prusa mini, Ender-2 series, and the old PrinterBot mini series. In fact, it should be a bit better because there IS some extra support provided by the guide rollers on the un-driven side, especially if the rollers are correctly adjusted and tensioned.
If you are driving two stepper motors off of one driver there are two options: Wire the stepper motors in parallel, or wire them in series. Depending on the motor ratings the series connection may be a better choice as you won't have to re-adjust the drive current on the board. However, when wired in series both motors MUST be IDENTICAL. If you wire them in parallel, the motors can be different (but should match somewhat in voltage and current) , but you will have to adjust the drive current to provide some more current to power the additional motor.
GREAT video! Thank you so much!! I have one question.
Option 3 (Ender 3 Pro): This is the only place I've found so far which says to plug the 2nd Z stepper into the E1 slot on the SKR E3 Turbo board. Is there an issue with plugging it into the Z2 slot? I'm working on syncing my 2 Z steppers, as one is either moving more quickly or binding and skipping steps. Just wondering if moving the 2nd Z stepper from Z2 => E1 would help or not.
When adding a second stepper motor with a Y adapter the current from the driver board is now shared with both motors. I am seeing some random stalling of the motors. What would be the current or Ref voltage set to when using two motors?
I love this but having difficulties with Klipper I followed you klipper config now I don't use marlin could you do a tutorial how to configure on klipper I have a e3 turbo and I been following you would be great or even a tip 😀
are there any possible problems with power supplied to the second motor in the second scenario? Could f/e the mainboard not be able to supply enough current for both motors?
i have done the mechanical 2nd lead screw. sometimes it drifts up slightly. but it works better than not havinging
is it possible to do Z-axis calibration with the BIGTREETECH SKR Mini E3 V3.0 because in the description it says "Add parallel double Z-axis interfaces"
Would you recommend two flexible couplers on both sides for method 2?
Is there any way of just enabling the G28 command through the cli tab? by connecting to you printer via USB?
thank you for the guides!
they don't make the SKR E3 Turbo anymore, what would be another SKR board that can do G34 leveling?
Any board with enough stepper motor drivers (typically at least five). It's more about the firmware changes.
thank you for this precious info. for the TMC2208 v3.0 can we configure them in UART for method 3 of synchronization of the two Z axes? Thank you for your time
Hello, thanks again for this very informative video. I wonder where you got your Xaxis linear rail along with its hotend mount. . It'll be very convenient for my old tevo tarantula that I try to upgrade with the dual color hotend that you presented in your previous video. Thanks
The second item is the lead screws, and the printers don't use the proper coupling, bearings, and support. Supporting the lead screw with the coupler and the stepper is wrong. The steppers bearings are not intended for this. Also, the stepper and the flex type couple will add compliance to the system. The way to do it is to capture the lead screw and use thrust bearing for the axial load. ball bears for the radial load. For anti-backlash I used a wave spring on the lead screw. For the lead nut I use the traditional anti backlash lead nut. Everything is stable and I can even remove the steppers and leadscrews stay in place.
Thanks for the great video. Could you consider including printed object reloaction as this potentially reduce the need for the above. I have had an alfawise u20 sat around for ages and there has been quite a large learning curve and it is easy to spend a lot of money if struggling to get your first print as thee is always something better. I am not interested in models and was mainly wanting 3d printing for practical things such as for tool batteries, and fixing items that have broken such as flymo hinge pins and plastic parts of an electric item that have dropped damaging its charging port seating, cogs for electric tools etc. These are all small items and relocation to the motor side would minimise discrepancies in height across the z axis. I was thinking about the swiss knife hotend clone from dragonlabs, or their volcano +- there nickel clad copper heat block or the supervolcano because I think teh print times are too long. Then the issues of whether it is worth getting a direct drive extruder and whether this would mean it would benefit from another z axis which is how I started looking at this. I managed to print a flymo hinge pin but it just broke and I will try again with greater infill. My point really was that there must be lots of people like me and it is easy to get into buying a lot of things you don't need out of frustration. Comparison of hotends are not available with physical measurments. It is interesting of getting a good printflow requires on adequate heating which depends on the material of the block e.g. copper versus aluminium (3x conductiv brass) with adequate coating eg nickel , longer hotend such as volcano, or multi inlet nozzle to allow increased surface area for heating (which may not need volcano to achieve the same thing in terms of cubic volume of melted filament that can be extruded.) This is another potential video.
Should the Z stepper motors be placed on the 3d printer base or a few mm higher?
Hi, just noticed that at 9:45 your stepper motor is wobbling badly....bent leadscrew?.