I normally really like healing in games but the more I play BG3 the more I realise death is the best CC.... That being said when I'm playing co-op I do really like to have a good healer as a back up, just to swap in when needed, normally I just go for the usual Life Cleric but I might try out the Oath of the Ancients a little more
I wouldnt feel too bad about it. Ancients is a very versatile class. If you're playing alongside a different high burst class like sorcerer, or just getting through early game where applying death is the hardest it'll ever be, the support healing comes in very well. You also get group bless and blade ward without a single fight (minus ship and grove fight) as soon as you're in the grove. Suddenly you're very solid burst damage, group buffer, potent healer, and frontliner tank all at once at level 2. You can also pick up the other good healing gear in mostly act 1 and hang around your casters at level 7. I like to take it as a frontliner alongside a sorcerer to free up life cleric for something else while still providing comfortable DPR and burst.
This comparison is solely reliant on the average damage output, and very specifically only between levels 1-5. Ancients is not focussed on damage, and yet is imo, the strongest paladin subclass. This is largely because paladins as a class already have very good damage output, so not being the best among them doesn't hamper the amount of dpr you are contributing to the team. While the support features of oath of the ancients are flat out the best in the game bar none. Especially if your team comp features more than one melee unit. This is because oath of the ancients gets a level 7 paladin aura which reduces all spell damage you and any nearby allies take by 50%, which is the single most busted subclass feature there is.
@DwarvesAndDice honestly the aura only being 3 meters is what kills it for me. How often is my front liner gonna be clumped with the rest of my party to get tons of use out of it? It's basically a personal buff
@@DwarvesAndDice I should clarify however, Vengeance is my favorite because of Vow of Emnity. At will advantage offsetting the negatives of GWM is extremely helpful as I'm sure you know. Ancients is powerful as well, but Damage > Healing. Especially for BG3.
@@d.b.hemlock Yeh, that's what really surprises me about the aura's is they're almost permanently up, especially on a tank that can heal. I can imagine it feels really good on honour mode, probably save some runs for some people I'd imagine 😄
@@d.b.hemlock I completely agree, it feels so good being able to get advantage at will, and like you said with the GWM it's a match made in heaven I do like the idea of ancients but I haven't tried it yet
Adding on the Aura of Hate to Oathbreaker looks like this: Oathbreaker: Enemy AC = Damage 10 = 332 11 = 323 12 = 313 13 = 302 14 = 292 15 = 281 16 = 269 17 = 257 So each proc only does +3 dmg * hit chance About +2.5 to +5 / turn 7.5 - 15 / combat
Very interesting video! The graphs in the Honor Mode chapter are a bit hard to compare because of the differing scales. Maybe it would be better to set three lines on one graph and colour code them? Also I gotta swoop in and defend my boi Oath of the Ancients. As other commentors already stated the aura ability is very good (probably the best of all!), which also insentivises your team (or at least the frontline) to stick close together which guarantees a good heal with the Radiance too. Speaking of the Healing Radiance, it's very underrated imo. Yes killing your enemies is the ultimate solution in DnD encounters but having an emergancy button so to speak is always welcome. Especially on a bonus action. Since it procs twice it also has great synergy with heal amps or buffs, like the ring that blesses healed targets or the Gloves (?) in act three that give blade ward on heal. But I think out of combat this shines even more. You can reliably restore about 10 HP on level 1 to 36 HP on level 12 per short rest to every member of the party. Depending on the total HP that's about 3 short rests worth of healing. So Oath of Ancients is not for you if you want the hardest hitting paladin you can have - but I mean you're not alone in the party, others can blast too. And so you're part healer part tank and if necessary you can still pack a punch thanks so good ol' reliable smiting. Also worth mentioning (I'm not sure if you did in the video ^^) that Sacred Weapon as well as Spiteful Suffering costs you an Action to cast, with the second one also allowing a saving throw which bumps down it's consistency (but at least it doesn't just count for your attacks). But yea overall, if vow of emnity is now against any enemy Vengeance is probably stand alone the best coice. Also good luck with your uni stuff :D
Thank you very much! I found when I changed the scaling it was somehow less clear but in future I'll try make them a little clearer! Yeh I was thinking of doing that when I was making the data and then forgot by the time I was done making it... it would have made it a lot better imo Yeh that's a very fair point, I think it's a good oath but in terms of raw damage it'll always be behind, hence why I only mentioned it. The aura is really strong when it's needed but of course some fights it's useless, maybe a good to have a as a backup healer instead of a main party member (imo) Yeh I actually really like it, especially with the delayed heal too. The fact it's AoE is just mental too, HUGE healing from this, quite impressive (+items as you said) I am starting to have my opinions changed from my tier list video, the more I look into certain subclasses / builds the more I realise how viable different options are (although some are still useless...) Yeh I tend forget to mention actions/bonus actions unless it really matters, but you're right it will lower the consistency of them quite a bit, especially an unlucky saving throw. I did think you'd likely pop a sacred weapon pre-fight tho, since it's 10 turns I think they need to change the tooltip tbh, since it was originally one target, but now all it's just SO much better Thank you, I really hope it goes smoothly and I can get back to this as fast as possible!
0:29 Minor, but I don't believe that how "half of 2D10" is implemented is as a 1D10 roll. I believe they roll the 2 dice and then divide the result, which gives you a normal curve and makes it unlikely you would get a one or 10 result. 1d10 would have an equal chance of any result...
Are you assuming only a 14 CHA for Devotion and Oathbreaker? Because that's kinda low. Even if I go for STR with those I at least make sure to start with 16 CHA. There's also one notable point in favor of Devotion you didn't mention, and that is that Sacred Weapon stacks with any advantage you'd get from elsewhere. I find Vengeance's advantage redundant in a lot of cases because you already get advantage from so many other sources.
No I was assuming 16 Cha: 18, 10, 14, 8, 8, 16 was my assumption Yeh that is true, although there are some diminishing returns when you get high chance to hit and have advantage, it is definitely a good point to note tho, I guess it then really depends on party build and items / who has what items
@@MercyBlack137 Ahhh sorry, I came from making shorts originally, making dwarf-sized vids, so I guess it's still in my system 😅 I'll see what I can do for you going forward, I know some other commenters have felt the same
Aww damn I wish Oath of the Ancients was a little better, I’m definitely a healing kind of player
I normally really like healing in games but the more I play BG3 the more I realise death is the best CC.... That being said when I'm playing co-op I do really like to have a good healer as a back up, just to swap in when needed, normally I just go for the usual Life Cleric but I might try out the Oath of the Ancients a little more
Fear not, Ancients is good enough. Its level 7 aura is really good.
@@HuyNguyen-ck7hlah good to know ty 🤗
I wouldnt feel too bad about it. Ancients is a very versatile class. If you're playing alongside a different high burst class like sorcerer, or just getting through early game where applying death is the hardest it'll ever be, the support healing comes in very well. You also get group bless and blade ward without a single fight (minus ship and grove fight) as soon as you're in the grove. Suddenly you're very solid burst damage, group buffer, potent healer, and frontliner tank all at once at level 2. You can also pick up the other good healing gear in mostly act 1 and hang around your casters at level 7. I like to take it as a frontliner alongside a sorcerer to free up life cleric for something else while still providing comfortable DPR and burst.
This comparison is solely reliant on the average damage output, and very specifically only between levels 1-5. Ancients is not focussed on damage, and yet is imo, the strongest paladin subclass. This is largely because paladins as a class already have very good damage output, so not being the best among them doesn't hamper the amount of dpr you are contributing to the team. While the support features of oath of the ancients are flat out the best in the game bar none. Especially if your team comp features more than one melee unit.
This is because oath of the ancients gets a level 7 paladin aura which reduces all spell damage you and any nearby allies take by 50%, which is the single most busted subclass feature there is.
This guy sounds like he’s about to warn me about an oilbear.
lol
I love it man keep it going so fun to see the real details.
Thank you very much! I’m really glad you’re enjoying the videos!
Oath of the ancients ia very good, they also get the level 7 aura that cuts spell damage taken by half and free talking with animals at level 3
Yeh the aura does seem very very nice. I don't really care for speak with animals, normally someone else has it or I find it not that useful
@DwarvesAndDice honestly the aura only being 3 meters is what kills it for me. How often is my front liner gonna be clumped with the rest of my party to get tons of use out of it? It's basically a personal buff
@@brandondodson2954 yeh thats fair, it is really quite small
Great video, very informative thank you!
Thank you very much 😊
great work again!
Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed it
Great video, got you a sub🎉
Thank you very much! I'm really glad you enjoyed it!
So oath of vengeance or go home! Got it lol
Vengeance is my favorite honestly. Great Synergy with most builds as well. Aura of Protection is just top tier amazing.
Ahhh yeh Aura of Protection is really nice to have, great since it's AoE too
@@DwarvesAndDice AoE and Always active. And doesn't cost a thing. Just beat honor mode last night, first attempt. Saving throw buffs is fantastic.
@@DwarvesAndDice I should clarify however, Vengeance is my favorite because of Vow of Emnity. At will advantage offsetting the negatives of GWM is extremely helpful as I'm sure you know. Ancients is powerful as well, but Damage > Healing. Especially for BG3.
@@d.b.hemlock Yeh, that's what really surprises me about the aura's is they're almost permanently up, especially on a tank that can heal. I can imagine it feels really good on honour mode, probably save some runs for some people I'd imagine 😄
@@d.b.hemlock I completely agree, it feels so good being able to get advantage at will, and like you said with the GWM it's a match made in heaven
I do like the idea of ancients but I haven't tried it yet
could you do the calculatons applying aura of hate for oathbreker?
Certainly, I will reply with an answer shortly!
Adding on the Aura of Hate to Oathbreaker looks like this:
Oathbreaker:
Enemy AC = Damage
10 = 332
11 = 323
12 = 313
13 = 302
14 = 292
15 = 281
16 = 269
17 = 257
So each proc only does +3 dmg * hit chance
About +2.5 to +5 / turn
7.5 - 15 / combat
Very interesting video!
The graphs in the Honor Mode chapter are a bit hard to compare because of the differing scales. Maybe it would be better to set three lines on one graph and colour code them?
Also I gotta swoop in and defend my boi Oath of the Ancients. As other commentors already stated the aura ability is very good (probably the best of all!), which also insentivises your team (or at least the frontline) to stick close together which guarantees a good heal with the Radiance too.
Speaking of the Healing Radiance, it's very underrated imo. Yes killing your enemies is the ultimate solution in DnD encounters but having an emergancy button so to speak is always welcome. Especially on a bonus action. Since it procs twice it also has great synergy with heal amps or buffs, like the ring that blesses healed targets or the Gloves (?) in act three that give blade ward on heal. But I think out of combat this shines even more. You can reliably restore about 10 HP on level 1 to 36 HP on level 12 per short rest to every member of the party. Depending on the total HP that's about 3 short rests worth of healing. So Oath of Ancients is not for you if you want the hardest hitting paladin you can have - but I mean you're not alone in the party, others can blast too. And so you're part healer part tank and if necessary you can still pack a punch thanks so good ol' reliable smiting.
Also worth mentioning (I'm not sure if you did in the video ^^) that Sacred Weapon as well as Spiteful Suffering costs you an Action to cast, with the second one also allowing a saving throw which bumps down it's consistency (but at least it doesn't just count for your attacks).
But yea overall, if vow of emnity is now against any enemy Vengeance is probably stand alone the best coice.
Also good luck with your uni stuff :D
Thank you very much!
I found when I changed the scaling it was somehow less clear but in future I'll try make them a little clearer! Yeh I was thinking of doing that when I was making the data and then forgot by the time I was done making it... it would have made it a lot better imo
Yeh that's a very fair point, I think it's a good oath but in terms of raw damage it'll always be behind, hence why I only mentioned it. The aura is really strong when it's needed but of course some fights it's useless, maybe a good to have a as a backup healer instead of a main party member (imo)
Yeh I actually really like it, especially with the delayed heal too. The fact it's AoE is just mental too, HUGE healing from this, quite impressive (+items as you said)
I am starting to have my opinions changed from my tier list video, the more I look into certain subclasses / builds the more I realise how viable different options are (although some are still useless...)
Yeh I tend forget to mention actions/bonus actions unless it really matters, but you're right it will lower the consistency of them quite a bit, especially an unlucky saving throw. I did think you'd likely pop a sacred weapon pre-fight tho, since it's 10 turns
I think they need to change the tooltip tbh, since it was originally one target, but now all it's just SO much better
Thank you, I really hope it goes smoothly and I can get back to this as fast as possible!
0:29 Minor, but I don't believe that how "half of 2D10" is implemented is as a 1D10 roll. I believe they roll the 2 dice and then divide the result, which gives you a normal curve and makes it unlikely you would get a one or 10 result. 1d10 would have an equal chance of any result...
Ohh really? I didn't know that's how it works! I always thought it was they just roll half the dice, thanks for letting me know
Are you assuming only a 14 CHA for Devotion and Oathbreaker? Because that's kinda low. Even if I go for STR with those I at least make sure to start with 16 CHA. There's also one notable point in favor of Devotion you didn't mention, and that is that Sacred Weapon stacks with any advantage you'd get from elsewhere. I find Vengeance's advantage redundant in a lot of cases because you already get advantage from so many other sources.
No I was assuming 16 Cha: 18, 10, 14, 8, 8, 16 was my assumption
Yeh that is true, although there are some diminishing returns when you get high chance to hit and have advantage, it is definitely a good point to note tho, I guess it then really depends on party build and items / who has what items
All you need for perfection is to talk 25% slower
I guess I'll try slow down a little in future, sorry!
@@DwarvesAndDice np:) it was so quick I thought it was AI/computer at first hehe:)
@@MercyBlack137 Ahhh sorry, I came from making shorts originally, making dwarf-sized vids, so I guess it's still in my system 😅
I'll see what I can do for you going forward, I know some other commenters have felt the same
@@DwarvesAndDice you're good you're doing godly bro
@@MercyBlack137 Thank you so much! It really means a lot to read that!
Oath breaker is interesting cause you have to play to unlock it
Yeh that's true, I really love how they implemented that, it really makes your actions have consequences!