I was waiting for someone to analyze this, and it's a good vod as always, but I think the terms here are somewhat wrong holding the numbers from where their actual potential. At this level any archery weapon on any character would have at least a +1 enchantment and dedicated archers would have at least one damage rider equipment. Also, during act 2 assassins use either of the heavy crossbows, not hand crossbows. Those are 1d10 base, and that +2 avg dmg per hit difference (vs 1d6s) accumulates very fast between the guaranteed crits involved.
Yeh that's fair, do you think I should include a +1 for act 1, +2 = act, +3 = act 3? I'm not really sure at what level/part in the game you get access to what, but that would at least keep things simple I still think heavy crossbows are behind the dual wield hand cross bows, even with the assassin buff, I could recalculate it but I was certain it was behind overall
@@DwarvesAndDice I'm not 100% what's the higher dps if you take 3+ turns, but the extra bonus action is nothing next to the auto crit, which also auto includes sneak attack of additional 4d6. I'd say take into account +1 from lvl 5, and +2 from level 10 on, much like cantrips' advancement.
@@orshefer1467 I did a quick recalculation of the heavy crossbow +1, here you go: ASI Assassin = 681 / day SS Assassin = 636 / day ASI Thief = 632 / day SS Thief = 584 / day But keep in mind you'd need to take a proficiency instead of either SS or ASI, therefore above is for level 10 and below is what it'd be with JUST the heavy crossbow proficiency feat: Heavy crossbow only = 558 / day
@@DwarvesAndDicethanks for this, basically with ASI assassinhaving the same, correct me if I'm wrong - it shows that heavy crossbow does at least the same job as hand crossbows with less hits, and so turn "0" + turn 1 are way more hardhitting.
@@orshefer1467 No problem, I think I sent you the wrong numbers, I think here's the up to date ones: ASI Assassin = 681 / day SS Assassin = 636 / day ASI Thief = 632 / day SS Thief = 584 / day So it means the ASI Assassin isn't that close to the one in the video: ASI Assassin = 729.2 ASI Thief = 682 Sharpshooter Assassin = 676.16 Sharpshooter Thief = 689.2
The problem with assassin is that its bonuses are dependent on surprise rounds, which is why it's considered weak in regular D&D. It's easier in BG3 if you shoot first and ask questions never, but there are still some combats you'll have to use a lot of invisibility to get surprise.
Yeh I know a lot of dm's really hate running assassins for this exact reason, at least in BG3 it's a lot more consistent. Some other commenter in another video said their surprise round uptime was extremely high throughout their game, so I figured most fights can be surprised
@@Rewwgh tbh I think it scales ok, I haven't tested it thoroughly but as far as I'm lead to believe it's just one of the best in the game, no matter your level. Only issue is some fights it's impossible to trigger surprise rounds but most fights are possible
The solution with assassin is to not rely on surprises, but abuse them to the max. You STILL get all actions + bonus back, you have auto advantage, and the crits are bonuses.
@@orshefer1467 Yeh I think the surprise rounds are very abusable, especially if playing Dark Urge. I think it's one of my favourite subclasses after playing around with it for a little while, although surprise can be annoying at times, still getting actions after is really really nice. TBH I think you've stumbled onto something I didn't take into account, the attack before the surprise round! Therefore an additional sneak attack could be added to each of the assassin builds which is quite nice!
In BG3 the enemy AC is known and expected damage vary a lot depending on the AC. For instance, high HP enemies with Low AC can be found in all acts. IMO, A simple chart (similar to the chart @ 3:00) comparing expected damage / hit (y axis) vs AC (x axis) instead of using fixed AC would be great for decision making and makes it easier visually to compare the damage across all the builds.
Wow thanks that's a great suggestion! I think I will end up doing that quite often going forward, I think it's good to see as additional information but I think it's always good to have an approximate AC (Act1-3) for consistency, that way I don't have to quote every damage at every AC in the comparison slide but can still show how it varies with different AC enemies I think it's also a great way to know what kinda of enemy the build should be targetting too, since it might show the build is really weak against tanks but strong against squshies Thanks again!
The thing about sharpshooter is that you actually have control over it allowing you to turn it off for higher ac bosses and just shredding weaker enemies in 1-3 hits with sharpshooter instead of 5 or more. + being reliant on surprise round is not an option for some fights making thief versions better overall
Yeh I probably should have mentioned the toggle in the video. The only things with turning it off, it them means going ASI is just flat out better because you're then not getting the use of it, so no point in having it. Yeh sure that will only be against a few enemies but it's still then overall better with the ASI at that point It is a really nice feature that you can turn it on/off tho, would be really useless if you couldn't You are right with the surprise reliance, only thing is MOST fights can be surprised but of course some are impossible
"all in" for SS and GWM can be disabled as necessary, depending on the target AC. I only enable it when chance to hit is 80 percent plus, often when I get advantage through any means, especially due to the fact that on tactician f.e. I suspect the game is fudging the dice based on the hit frequencies I observe.
Yeh I probably should have mentioned that it's toggleable. The only thing at that point, if you're toggling it off a lot then you shouldn't have taken it as a feat, it would only lower the average dmg output, although you're right about it being better used in that way, I guess I could look into when it's worth toggling on/off in another video! Are you sure you're not using Karmic dice?
@@DwarvesAndDice I think a lot of people have it on. It defaults on IIRC and it sounds like a GOOD thing. It wasn't until I kept seeing people talk about how it can actually hurt you that I finally turned mine off.
@@JohnVanderbeck Yeh I'm really surprised they have it on by default, I feel like it's definitely an opt into rather than opt out of kinda thing I saw a video that looked into it and it is mathematically equal to the normal dice rolls but it definitely feels like the rolls are fudged imo
One of the best usages of Sharpshooter is with a complementary party. Sneaky archer types (my unofficial categorisation of the builds here) hitting from high ground are a great complement for a 2-4 player party game and probably will not be a go to choice for min-maxers in my opinion.
I’d have liked to see the analysis with enchanted weapons given their abundance in game, but this does still illustrate that flat damage bonuses are less impactful on critical hits
Yeh you're right they're definitely important and probably should have been mentioned, the only thing is picking which ones to mention is always a challenge If I talked about them all it'd take too long, and talking about the best would also be long and hard to calculate, as well as likely being replaced soon after I suppose one way to think of how much the damage difference would be is it'll be similar to that of using an ASI vs no feat If you think it'll be interesting or worth it I could do a video detailing how much of a difference enchantment makes to the damage overall and how to calculate it for each type of weapon and level of enchantment?
You really are right that it’s a huge number of factors. Your video illustrates that sharp shooter isn’t a necessity for a strong build, so that’s honestly enough analysis on its own. If you wanted to look into enchanted weapons it would probably be beneficial to run tests with a +2 bow or crossbow for late game and maybe vary it up with the archery fighting style. But then again, there are also gloves and helmets that increase hit chance and coatings, so maybe it’s better to see what level of attack bonus is necessary for sharp shooter to be stronger than asi instead.
Automaton gloves and or risky ring make the hit chance drawback of sharpshooter kind of meaningless. Its also pretty easy to just go rush the spider guy in act 2 and command drop his lantern and then go to the tower to buy or steal the risky ring. You can also grab the drakethroat glaive for +1 weapon enchantment til long rest which afaik is also basically like 5-7.5%-ish more hit chance and oil of accuracy / sharpness are plentiful and dirt cheap from traders for further hit chance increases.
Just finished an honour mode run playing as a Ranger, Hunter subclass. This build was all about leveraging heavy hitting ranged attacks and the Sharpshooter feat. I went with the ASI at level 4 and added Auntie Ethel’s hair to bring Dexterity up to 20. Then I picked up Sharpshooter at level 8. I also chose the Archery fighting style, which gives Rangers +2 to all ranged attack rolls. And I also picked up the Colossus killer ability, which adds an additional 1d8 damage to any enemy that isn’t at full health. Hunter’s Mark is the one spell key to the build, and it adds an additional 1d6 to the damage. Now, some important items. In Act 2, I picked up the Hunter’s Circlet from a trader in Moonrise Tower. That item adds 1d4 to the hit chance against any enemy marked with Faerie Fire, Guiding Bolt, or Hunter’s Mark. I also equipped a ring that added 1d4 psychic damage to weapon attacks if I’m concentrating on a spell. And Hunter’s Mark requires concentration. All day long. I also used the ring that adds 2 acid damage. As an added bonus, the acid damage would lower an enemy’s AC (if a shot lands). It consistently applies 2 damage then buffs all subsequent shots by +1 (or +5%) in the change to hit. When you put it all together, this Ranger, Hunter subclass can run around Act 2 with the Sharpshooter attack toggled on and still have 90% to 95% chance to hit. And every shot that lands hits hard. In terms of gameplay, this Ranger outperforms Battlemaster Lae’zel and ranging throw barbarian Karlach.
Does this really out damage BM Fighter Lae#zel and Berserker Barbarian Karlach? I can see where you're getting HEAPS of damage but is it really as much as the other 2 builds? Also running colossus slayer limits your damage compared to hoard breaker, especially since you're going full ranger I know that going ASI into SS is good for ranger, since there isn't another good ranged feat but I still feel like SS isn't that great, espcially when using non-hand crossbows (unless you were with this build?? It would partner well with all the buffs you're getting so I'd imagine you might?) I think having that hunter's mark + items combo is really really nice, good job, I also really like the use of acid
@@DwarvesAndDice I went with the Joltybolt longbow for most of the game. That is one of the three lightning infused weapons available after rescuing Florik from Waukeem’s Rest. I headed there pretty much after getting to the Grove and saving Arabella from Kagha’s snake. And I used it right up until the middle of Act 3-replacing it with the legendary Dead Eye longbow that you can purchase from a vendor in the central lower city. And then, for the end game, going with the legendary longbow you can get from the Titan steel watcher in the foundry. I was playing around with lighting gear. The Real Sparkysparks wall shield was meh. Used its ability just twice in the campaign. Totally underwhelming. But the Jolty vest-purchased from the same Zent trader that sells the Titanbow-was pretty good. The bow charged up the vest, and then when my character took damage, sometimes that enemy gets hit with a shocking discharge that often left them stunned. Half-decent crowd control and bonus damage delivered on the enemy’s turn. As for the lightning bow, it would deal +1 lightning damage per shot while charging up and +4 lightning damage whenever it discharges, which is every fourth shot. And if you are leaning on lightning damage with other party members (Gale with lightning spells and a tempest cleric Shadowheart) the joltyshooter longbow synergies very well with that party. But the thing I liked the most about this build was being able to deal large of damage consistently-more consistently than Lae’zel and her great swords. Even more consistently than Karlach throwing javelins and hatchets. However, once Karlach got that legendary trident in Act 3, she and this Ranger built were pretty much on par with each other.
@@wfdmount Sorry TH-cam gave me no notification for this comment... Wow that build really did carry you through the whole game! I'm surprised it was able to be more consistent than Throwing Karlach, very very nice! I want to do a playthrough mainly going with the lightning gear, see how far it can go. I know there are some builds that min/max the lightning dmg, so maybe I'll do something like that
@@DwarvesAndDice I had the same desire-to play around with the lighting gear. I started another game. Same Ranger build, but this time I’m going to use the Titanstring bow and guzzle giant elixirs. I wasn’t planning on using the Jolty Vest this play through. Then I noticed that the gauntlets you can pick up from tree in the swamp after the fight with the wood woads and mud mephits could allow Karlach to earn lightning charges with every throw. I haven’t tried it out yet but will find out if it works the next time so sit down to play. The spellsparkler staff is definitely the best item of the three options available after rescuing Florick since it applies +1 lightning damage to each magic missile. Plus you get bonus lightning damage, +4, whenever the staff discharges. And it appears to apply a special double damage discharge if you can fully charge then discharge the staff in one attack, which happens every time you upcast Magic Missile at level 2. So with a level 2 magic missile, the bonus lightning damage appears to be something like +0, +1, +1, and +8 for the four missiles. I just reached level 5 and finished clearing the Goblin camp in this game. I had blade ward buff-mistress Shadowheart and battlemaster Lae’zel in the party the entire day. I used Gale with the spellsparkler until he no longer have any spells slot left and then substituted him for raging throw barbarian Karlach. Gale, Lae’zel, and Karlach were powerful characters able to deal lots of damage and takeout enemies quickly. The Ranger, however, was the MVP. Ranger Tav was a one shot, one kill longbow sniper in the goblin camp. Both Gale and Karlach were great in the fight, but they have limited spell slots and rage charges. Battle master Lae’zel has a lot of potential for massive burst damage-if she is fresh off a short rest and has her action surge and special weapons attacks available. Ranger Tav, however, is just consistent, massive damage with high hit chances all day long.
@@wfdmount let me know if you find out if those gloves work with throwing weapons, that would be a GREAT use for the gloves if you're not running a monk! Oh yeh for sure, the spellsparkler is definitely my go to choice everytime I love hearing about your in game experiences, it really puts into perspective how good the ranged builds can be, and like you said it's sooo consistent it feels great!
I feel like only looking at rogues for this skews the data in favor of ASI due to needing accuracy for their sneak attacks, when really the strength of sharpshooter comes from it being paired with the archery fighting style to offset the penalty and sheer number of attacks per round. Sharpshooter battle master fighter has long been viewed as one of the highest DPR builds in DND for this reason. Would be curious to see other classes reviewed with this in mind
I can certainly have a look into how it compares and make a follow up video, I can also include all of the other comments & suggestions into that video and compare back to the results from this one, I think that's a good idea Do you think BM Fighter, Ranger (GS & Hunter), Rogues (Assassin + Thief), CoS Bard are the best to compare between? I can't think of any one else that would make use of ranged right?
@@DwarvesAndDice Yeah, those are probably the best pure ranged martial subclasses out there. Could also look into the Gloomstalker ranger 5/assassin rogue 3+ multiclass that is out there as well in addition to the pure class builds. For gloomstalker ranger/assassin I know it's generally preferable to use a heavy crossbow for those 2d10 crits, especially since you can get proficiency without needing to use a feat
@@mithikz7608 I guess I could do the multiclasses yeh, this is all the combos right? I know some are likely to be bad but that's fine. Do you think the levels are good? I was trying to balance getting feats/passives etc: GS 5 + Assassin 4 Hunter 5 + Assassin 4 GS 5 + Thief 4 Hunter 5 + Thief 4 BM Fighter 9 BM Fighter 6 + Assassin 3 BM Fighter 6 + Thief 3 BM Fighter 6 + GS 3 BM Fighter 6 + Hunter 3 CoS Bard 6 + BM Fighter 3 CoS Bard 6 + (thief 3 & assassin 3) - Already done
My playstyle and preference is first round nova, especially now considering Honor mode. My objective becomes eliminating the boss before any of the legendary actions can occur limiting my need to interact with them. So something like an Swords 6 + Assassin 3 with Titanstring and Hill Giant club gives the most round 1 nova and can trivialize several encounters and further push the advantage to Assassin over Thief. As far as the benefit of Sharpshooter, with the skill being toggleable I can keep my rolls as high as possible for the boss then take advantage of the bonus damage on the other trash. For the burst round it outperforms the ASI build, so I think its worth having.
Yeh nova is kinda just the best way to go. The only problem is that you're disabling the sharpshooter, where if you went just an ASI, all of those shots would do more damage. Although I like that you can disable it, I don't like disabling it since it's then just a bit of a waste of a feat
I don't think that crits from assassin are actually good. Surprise rounds with ranged weapons are kinda janky, so I usually use Shovel to trigger them, making Assassin's Alacrity usless. Even ignoring that, which could very well be a player issue, I find that the fact that many difficult bosses have the alert feat destroys the purpose of Assassinate: Ambush, since the non-boss fights are piss easy anyways and when you would need the extra damage it doesnt even work.
Yeh that's a fair point about the boss mobs and needing the damage for those fights over small fights, I haven't thought about it that way before I do think the majority of fights are easy enough to trigger surprise tho, that aren't boss fights etc. BUT I do know it can be quite buggy at times... IDK if there's a good way to trigger it, without the like of Shovel, just so you can use up your action for a sneak attack etc
Oh and I forgot a cool way to offset SS downside. (I used it in my second run months ago, I hope it still works, but some testing may be required) If you go swords bard 6 for the extra attack and battlemaster you can pick up precision attack, which is utter spaghetti code. For some ungodly reason if you use it on slashing flourish you get the accuracy bonus applied to both attacks, but it also applies to damage. That ramps up your damage by a lot and almost completely offsets the -5 of SS. Everything lines up very well with bard inspiration, since if you use action surge you get 4 attacks, and have exactly 4 inspirations and 4 superiority dices. After that your damage drops substantially since you blew the whole load, but there is very little that survives it. Try it out if you havn't, it's very fun :D@@DwarvesAndDice
@@franciscofracaro3648 Ohhh wow that's spicy! I like that a lot, how do you use the precision attack with the Slashing Flourish? I thought it was something you clicked on and use? Or can you set it as a passive to ask when it's useful? If that still works/works as intended I love it, I might even feature it in a build because it's so cool
Precision attack is a free action that gives you a condition that applies the bonus on your next attack roll and then expires. Just use the precision attack action before slashing flourish and everything should work. I did some testing, and it seems that they patched the extra damage (you will only get the extra 1d8 from bardic inspiration) :C The accuracy still applies to both attacks tho :D @@DwarvesAndDice
@@franciscofracaro3648 Unfortunate about the extra damage but I wonder if that extra chance to hit is worth it, I'd assuming it'd make some difference but I'm not sure. I really like that interaction tho
It's mathematically correct, but it's wrong. Taking Sharpshooter to then shoot with 35% to hit is wrong. I can understand that someone can hear at Reddit that Sharpshooter is free damage and then blindly enable sharpshooter and then start wondering why things are so bad. It's a wrong way to play sharpshooter. I very often take sharpshooter on lvl4, but I only do so when first and foremost I have Archery fighting style. I prefer Astarion with Happy buff to be my sharpshooter if it fits. I very diligently seek to always fire from high ground and have some advantage if possible. Bless is mandatory, Falar Aluve sing is highly advised as well. Finally for real important fights I use precision oil or how do you call it, and for less important fights I use that oil that instead of +2 to hit gives +1 to hit and +1 to damage, just for to hit part of course. Having less than 60% chance to hit is an obvious cancer, even if it would be good on average, just because of non-stop gameplay frustration. So Sharpshooter is very good, but you should play around it.
I see, so when you aim to use Sharpshooter, you're always maxing your chance to hit anyways, so it feels a lot less detrimental to have the -25% The only thing is it would need to be a level 10 build to fully take advantage of having Archery FS, at 10 taking 1 level into fighter would be my suggestion I think if you're not going CoS Bard/Thief for the extra attacks it's overall never really worth going Sharpshooter, then just going the ASI is always better. The extra attacks synergise too well with Sharpshooter and hence is the only real way (that I know of) to really min/max it I try not to include things like the oils, although they're great in game and should be used, it's really complicated to try min/max all items/buffs like that. It's also less consistent since you can't always have that every single fight but I do get why you run these for the build, it makes a lot of sense
@@DwarvesAndDice year, tbh I feel sharpshooter is kinda minmaxy and for anyone who's not into optimizing fun out of game I would advice ASI. One can never go wrong with ASI.
Hey, this is unrelated but definitely relevant to your channel. Do you know if there's any way to influence wild surges? I.E halfling luck to reroll the 1s, or reducing crit threshold? Theres barely any information out there on it which is strange considering as a luck based class youd think the dice math nerds of us would have documented this.
No problem it's unrelated, it's what I'm here for! As far as I know there's no way to influence it other than influencing it coming up more by using the sorcerer Tides of Chaos. As far as I know it's all just rolled on a d20 (for sorc), if 20 then surge but it seems to be separate from crit, it's specifically looking for the "20" I agree it's strange, at least confirmation that it works like that at a minimum
@@DwarvesAndDice Yeah, I'd need to do some testing and don't have time for it for a few days, but it's a shame if there really is no way at all to effect the roll besides the feywild ring and turn tides. A wildmagic sorcerer maximizing surges would be pretty interesting and maybe even pretty strong given youve picked up the tools to mitigate the downside pool. Thanks for the feedback though
I'm really not sure why go for Rogue. Fighter dip will give you Archery FS, Armour prof, Heavy Crossbow and Action surge so you can blow all your 4 Inspirations in one turn. Yes Assassin is nice if you can start combat in surprise but other stuff seem to be lackluster.
How are you blowing all 4 inspirations in a turn? Also by that level you have 5 in total. I think assassin should have a higher damage potential than the fighter, although I'm just doing some mental maths for that, I don't have any calculations for it Getting the armour prof isn't that great tho, since you're going a dex build, it'll limit the dex buff to your AC and have bad stealth checks (although I guess that's less important since you're not going rogue) Tbh it's probably what I'd recommend for level 10 is to take a one level dip in to fighter. I still think the hand crossbows are better over the heavy crossbow, as far as I can tell
@DwarvesAndDice You are not limited to one Slashing Flourish per turn. So 8 attacks in one turn kinda kicks ass. Yes, you will be quite limited on other rounds, but who cares if the enemy is so weakened by your initial assault. Rogue does have a sneak atack, so 2d6 is nice, and I guess in DPR will be slightly better, but as said before, dead enemies don't care how much you can kick them afterwards.
@@dudovsky Yeh but surely that's then just 2 slashing flourish, then the action surge gives you plus 1, so how are you getting 4? That does mean my calculations are minus 1 slashing flourish per combat, oops!
@DwarvesAndDice action surge is a full action, unlike hasted action in Honour mode. You can attack twice again. Or cast a spell. It is a pretty powerful feature to any character. Edit: in BG3 you can cast with hasted action, so Martials got one more short end of the stick, oh well.
@@dudovsky Ahh I do normally do these based off of honour mode, since that's where people are going to struggle the most. I didn't think the action surge gave you 2 attacks but I guess I just got mixed up with honour mode
I thought they could only use 1 / turn (I was wrong) But overall they only have 5 per combat and I used up 4 of those, so technically there would be +1 baric attack +2 bardic damage dice to each of the builds Sorry for the mistake!
Isn't this overly complicated? The crit chance and crit damage can be ignored because that part is not changed with sharpshooter. The number of actions and bonus actions, etc. also doesn't change with or without sharpshooter. Really only need to look at damage x probability versus (damage + 10) x (probability - 0.25) For an average damage of d = 10 or below (which is normally the case) the cutoff point is p=50% So if your average damage is 10 or less and hit chance is 50% or more, you should enabe sharpshooter Ok, I guess the point of the video was Sharpshooter vs ASI in the early game. That makes sense. I assumed you do both in the late game.
I see what you mean, I feel like showing more working that less is always better, it's not been the first time someone has noticed a mistake from being able to see it all laid out like that. I do think the crit chance changes with sharpshooter, at least on the assassin crit round, since crit chance = hit chance there and sharpshooter reduces that chance to hit But the number of actions and bonus damage does change between the subclasses, which is important to look at too, so it needs to still be included right? I see what you mean, I like reducing it to that level, maybe I will adopt that method for some other videos going forward!
So I think I followed… had to watch a couple of times. I think most people who take SS know that you have to do something to compensate. It is not just point and click. Bless, Phalur Aluve Sing, Oil of Accuracy, High Ground, etc, all will increase those chances. Yes, it will increase for ASI as well but there appears to be some diminishing return as you are closer to the ceiling for return as you are closer to 100% to hit. Also there’s something to be said for killing something quicker to eliminate threats to you that prevent you from dealing damage. Appreciate the work though and it does make me think I want to try Assassin.
I'm sorry if it was hard to follow with, I try to make it as step by step as I can, if there's something you would suggest let me know, and if there's anything you still don't understand, just comment and I'll see if I can help you out 😄 Yeh the ceiling definitely favours SS over ASI for sure, the only thing with ASI in those situations is the -2 from low grounds is slightly compensated for by the ASI Absolutely agree about the killing faster is generally better, very very few encounters I imagine is it better to deal damage slower Thank you very much, assassin is fun, especially for a second playthrough, then you know how to trigger surprised rounds and don't care about dialogue as much
@@DwarvesAndDice Nah, you’re good. Something like this is hard to condense for TH-cam consumption and you did a good job with this. I think anyone who subscribes to you expects this.
@@HuyNguyen-ck7hl Yeh that's a fair point, and thank you I'm trying to make it as condensed but still enough context as possible, I hope it's working! And I'm glad you're enjoying
I don't know why but I just prefer Gloom Stalker 5/Assassin 7 and just use bows and starts combat from sneak and rest much less. I player Sword Bard with hand crossbows and still Gloom Stalker 5/Assassin 7 felt just more cool and more powerful with the guaranteed crits and all the items increasing crit chance.
Yeh I can understand that, the only thing is GS isn't really the strongest, although it does feel really good and fits a nice niche, also does partner beautifully with Assassin as you do
There is a big difference between optimizing for 1 round of combat vs. multiple. No reason not to run both or else swap to Sword / Rogue for boss fights.
@@DavidHarris74 Well as long as you use a bow on Gloom Stalker 5/Assassin 7 you can just hide at the end of each turn making you be great at 1st turn and good at all the other.
@@zarddin Yeh that's a fair point, having the BA hide is really nice to have, great for sneak attacks too (something the dual crossbows lack - although I suppose you could give up some BAs for a hide)
When you run the Titanstring, what stats and build do you use? When I've done a quick calculation to see how good it is, the results look like this: ASI Assassin = 676 / day SS Assassin = 607 / day ASI Thief = 594 / day SS Thief = 560 / day Compared to the video buids: ASI Assassin = 729.2 / day ASI Thief = 682 / day Sharpshooter Assassin = 676.16 / day Sharpshooter Thief = 689.2 / day
@@DwarvesAndDiceThe build I am following recommends Titanstring Bow with holding a Club of Giant Strength in the melee slot. The item from the Arcane Tower that sets STR to 19. Also the Hill Giant elixir exists. But I personally don't find it flavourable for an Assassin so I run other stuff.
@@Rewwgh I don't really like using Hill Giant Elixir for that, I'd rather keep it for someone else, and use a different elixir for this build, maybe bloodlust but idk for sure I also did the calculation for the Titanstring with having +5 strength: So I guess using the Titanstring with the club is a really good combo ASI Assassin = 856 / day SS Assassin = 715 / day ASI Thief = 773 / day SS Thief = 668 / day
@@DwarvesAndDice Nice! I was wondering if you could also take a look at using a Heavy Crossbow with the Gloves of Archery that give Rogue proficiency with said crossbow and a bit more flat damage. I run those gloves with Harold from the Zhents.
@@Rewwgh So the gloves don't give you proficiency with heavy crossbows but I did a quick recalculation of the heavy crossbow +1, here you go: ASI Assassin = 723 / day SS Assassin = 636 / day ASI Thief = 632 / day SS Thief = 584 / day Heavy crossbow (no feats) = 558 / day
Have I brought you over to the dark side then? 😂 Since you didn't like maths, can I ask what brought you're attention here? I've seen you around a few videos but I thought only maths lovers were going to watch it, so what do you like about the videos?
@@DwarvesAndDiceI don't like to math much, but i like to know stuff. So i watch your videos because you very eloquently explain stuff that i wanna know about the game, which is pretty much everything.
This analysis is really a perfect example of why math doesn't tell you everything. Sure it van provide a base level for comparison and to base decisions on, but it can never capture the "real world" or the actual application in many cases, such a this one where you have high ground/low ground changing the numbers, and how often you get surprise rounds changing the numbers.
Yeh it would just be too difficult to take everything into account but as you say, it's a good baseline to start optimising from. The only thing is the surprise rounds can be done pretty consistently, with only a few fights being forced into non-surprise
@@DwarvesAndDice I think the caveat here is "they can be done pretty consistently if you have already played through the game and really know the encounters". Even having played through Act 1 tons of times, I don't think I've ever gotten surprise rounds on the three largest fights I can think off. Maybe I'm just dumb :)
@@JohnVanderbeck Yeh ok that's a fair point, only thing is if you're searching for a video like mine you've probably played the game a good bit but I totally understand where you're coming from I mainly play co-op so my co-op players end up starting fights before I can get surprise rounds, so I don't really know the full extent of how easy they are to pull off consistently
@@DwarvesAndDice I think what's frustrating is if you choose the "Attack" option mid conversation you don't even get a surprise round. Like you are just chilling having a chat then you suddenly pull out your weapons and the other guy isn't surprised? On top of that a lot of fights trigger after a cutscene so those don't have them either. Like in Act 1, the first grove fight, any of the goblin leader fights, ethel, none of those can be surprise fights AFAIK know. Neither can the windmill in the blighted village, or the phase spider (I don't think on that last one but I might be wrong) or the Paladins since again you have to talk to them first. Honestly the only Act 1 fights I can think of that I have ever gotten surprise rounds on where easy fights anyway. Like I said maybe I'm doing something wrong. Just thinking about the Paladins now, maybe instead of talking to them to trigger the fight you need to just right click and Attack. That might do it, but then you miss out on the story that the dialog gives you. EDIT: That should have said "if you choose the attack option mid conversation... brains"
@@JohnVanderbeck That's strange, youtube didn't give me a notification for this massage I don't think you have to talk to the Paladins but I think you're right with the rest I do really feel like it's built for someone who wants to shoot first and cast speak with dead tbh 🤣 I feel like you need to have info from a previous run to make it worth it and to not skip speaking with people for plot
Thanks for making this video. I personally am not a fan of GWM and SS but I was curious on how much potential I am leaving on the table by simply taking ASI or a utility feat like Lucky.
No problem at all, I hope it helped! I get why you don't like running it that much, the -25% was what turns me away from it, it just doesn't feel that good. Of course it might depend on other builds but for the most part going ASI doesn't seem bad at all
GWM gives you an extra attack on kill even if you dont turn on the extra dmg passive. It also stacks with rage potions. Its a good feat regardless if you want to play risky or not. SS is objectively worse feat, but the only real feat for ranged characters.
@@Debilinside Yeh in when I was talking about GWM there, I just meant the +10 dmg part of it, the extra attacks part is insanely strong and worth running even if you just turn off the passive (unlike SS, having just the low ground buff) It sucks there are not other decent options for a ranged build...
Ohhh well spotted, I messed that up for some reason, I'm not really sure how I managed to make that mistake, thanks for pointing it out! Therefore it should be 38 dmg / turn, 152 / combat, 606 / day
Also I know that you're analysing this within an act 2 context but there's so many bonuses you can get for hit chance that you can easily offset sharpshooters maluses ( e.g. mask of soul perception)
I’m not really the best with items, I try to keep my builds away from items, unless its integral for the build to work. That’s mostly just because idk most of them and I dont wanna force story choices on viewers I get what you mean tho, it is likely stronger than I’m giving some credit for, but it also means there will be items that benefit ASI too
I forgot it was even a thing when making the video. I looked at the damage of Titanstring in another comment, i cant quite remember how well it did (with a quick calculation) but it wasnt insane dmg if I remember right
I would love a video running the numbers on “Charger” since it gives +5 damage and movement at the cost of both action and bonus action. So it would be compared with great weapon master and savage attacker for outputs. The main consideration for charger is the fact you don’t lose attack roll chance. Would it average more?
Ooo interesting, I haven't seen anyone mention charger yet, so I'm curious what could be done to min/max it! I'm going to assume that the +5 dmg isn't huge but it honestly might JUST eek out in front because of not reducing attack chance
@@DwarvesAndDice You don't need to have the passive on to make use of the bonus attack on crit or kill though and the bonus attack is a full attack, so unless you're doing 5 or less, it will always be better than charger. There is a mod that make charger cost only action though, so that might be worthwhile. I would use Charger for some Tank/Disrupter build and GWM on Crit/Striker builds.
@@TitoVespasianus Yeh that's a fair point, I do dislike having things disabled, since you're not making full use of it but the extra attacks are kinda too strong to say no to... I feel like charger shouldn't cost Action + Bonus, I think it's too much so maybe the mod is onto something there
When I swap in 3 levels of Gloomstalker, the damage drops to ~135 / combat (~540 / day) What do you mean by the from hit for the weapons? Enchantments or?
@@DwarvesAndDice enchantments, and the presumed elemental weapon buff. and I only saw 9 levels accounted for. 6 bard, 3 rogue. But yes, every weapon you equpi is going to provide a minimum of +1 throughout the game. the reason I mention that is it significantly increases the hit chance for the sharpshooter.
I think the math gets way harder when starting to account for items but yeah, part of the reason why sharpshooter can be good is from the items and spells to boost to hit like bless. Also it is toggleable which is really nice, if an enemy has a high ac dont use it but if they have a low ac it is free damage
@@DellikkilleD Yeh that's fair, I'm thinking I might do something like Act 1 = +1 enchant, act 2 =+2, act 3 = +3 but I'm not sure if that's all that accurate / representative, but I suppose it's better than not including it
I would rather alpha strike, kill 1 or more baddies, then use my bonus to stealth and dash away. Much safer on honour mode. Gloom / Ass with Sharp, Titan, and potion with +hit and +dmg gear is working quite well.
You'd need to take a feat to get proficiency, other wise at level 10 I guess you could dip a level into a martial class to grab the proficiency, which might be the way forward for the build but I only calculate for level 9
@@DwarvesAndDice that makes a lot of sense! My only reason for asking is I got wrapped up doing similar ranger and ranger/rogue damage calcs for sharpshooter and hunter's mark with heavy vs hand crossbows. I think the reapplication of hunter's mark plus, for example, a beastmaster's companion's damage and redux of hunter's mark damage is an interesting variable below level 9. I'd love if you did a video on how it math's out
@@Voremaster420 Ahhaaa I see, that's a good point about hunter's mark (one of my fav spells btw, LOVE IT) I kind of always assume you'll have your spell on someone, I forget that you'll need a BA to cast it, I think that's an interesting thing to look into, and see if there's a certain number of bonus actions that it's still worth it to go one weapon over the other, when running a hunter's mark build
Ayo, Maths nerd! A little help please. Its possible to add 17 extra damage to an eldritch blast from combining potent robe, empowered evocation and agonizing blast. Though, to do it you have to play as dark urge and give alfira a concussion as to not kill her. Like the levels of bs and hoops you need to do for this to work is just silly: You use two asi's on intelligence, and you also use both hags hair, patriahs memory, mirror of loss, and birth right on charisma. You have to start with both 16 in intelligence and charisma. I believe you have to have a dex and wisdom score of 12. And then a con score of 10. I think evocation warlock is something you relcass into at the end of the game, I couldn't imagine playing as 2/10 warlock/wizard from the beginning to end with awful ability score distribution. I think the standard warlock min-max items for EB would work fine with this build. Just from the items I already mentioned, a single eldritch blast is going to do a minimum of 18 damage if one projectile hits and a minimum of 54 if all three projectiles hit. And a maximum of 27 if one hits, and maximum of 87 if all three hit. Again, thats without proper itemization and crits. If you are hasted and with a bloodlust elixir, thats a minimum of 54 if all three actions only have one projectile hit and maximum of 261 if all three actions have all projectiles hit. How would you improve this? Because I've played the game like heck and cannot think what would improve this.
I like the idea of the build, albeit it is a little hard to get going! Honestly I'm not 100% sure how I would take that to the next level, it's already quite well flushed out, I'm better with early game min/max than late game, as I know much less of late game in depth but I can give it a go: One issue is you need to drop both feats as ASI improvement, it might be better to go spell sniper, the extra crit chance is going to feel really good with this build I think, although most of the things added aren't dice so wont benefit from the crit One way to make use of that crit could be running some spells like hex, where every beam will apply an instance of hex or whatever else spell's damage, which will also crit. This might take the build up a few notches but I'm not really sure what else is good and how you would take it. I get you're going 10 levels into wizard for the empowered evocation passive, is it actually worth it tho? You're putting 10 levels into the class and also a lot of points into int, if you switch out the wizard for something like level 3 assassin rogue, it might increase the damage over all (I haven't done calculations) The Rogue method would partner well with additional crit btw, and also might be better going sorcerer as the finial levels you need. This allows you to use your meta magic to have an even stronger burst round during the surprise round, e.g. having a spell as a bonus action then that's another spell that will crit that round If you have any other suggestions or questions let me know!
@@DwarvesAndDice Another thing I have found out is that barbarian has synergy with abjuration wizard. If you rage and have run out of arcane ward stacks, your arcane ward stacks reset. A 5/5/2 Barbarian/Wizard/Paladin might be best to make use of that.
What do you mean? Do you think my builds are bad? I think the -25% chance to hit is quite a downside, as shown in the video, I don't think there's a way to further min/max it to bring Sharpshooter up to par, maybe one or two niche builds tho? If you have a suggestion I can always give it a quick calculation and see where it lies?
@@DwarvesAndDice I’m sure your builds are ok but any archery based build should have 20-22 dex. And there’s plenty of items to offset the -5 to attack roll(legacy of masters,mask of soul perception, etc) and also the +2 to attack rolls for the archery fighting style
@@DwarvesAndDice I’ve used sharpshooter on all my archery builds and never had too much of a problem hitting. Same thing with heavy weapon master. I do wish that sharpshooter got the bonus action attack like great weapon master so that longbows and short bows and crossbows were more on par with hand crossbows
@@triplethreatgaming8583 Only thing is you wouldn't have access to the archery fighting style since it's 6 Bard / 3 Rogue, of course upon leveling you could grab it. I get what you mean about having more chance to hit but through most of my time playing, the chance to hit is normally quite low (although that's mostly early game I'm thinking of) but that is when you first get the Sharpshooter
@@triplethreatgaming8583 I think it would be a little OP if it also gave the extra attack bonus action, but you're right they do need something to bring them in line with the hand crossbows
How’d you make the like button glow when you mentioned hitting it? Lol The math alone made me hit it, but that effect on top made me Sharpshooter: All in!
Ahh the like button / sub button lighting up is a new feature from youtube, it released a few month ago and it hears when I say either subscribe or like and it'll light up! Pretty cool feature imo I'm really glad you enjoyed it! I've been busy lately but I'm coming to the end of that soon so many more videos to come!
@@DwarvesAndDice I don't remember the name but it was a magic ring that gives advantage on all attacks but disadvantage on all saving throws. Since he was always at pretty good range and had a ton of movement, the saving throw thing didn't matter too much
@@donniejefferson9554 Ahhh yeh Risky Ring, that is a fair point since you should always be at ranged, you're relatively safe (except weak to spells I guess)
@@DwarvesAndDice It wasn't an issue until the final battle when I was using him to take out the mind flayers on the elder brain. He got his fair share of getting stunned. Still worked out though
I was going to say (and forgot to) was that at level 10 I'd likely dip a level into fighter just for action surge etc. Imo the heavy armour isn't that good because you can't add your dex to the AC that way, all the other stuff is nice tho. I do think the +2 to attack rolls is really nice, for any of the builds but for the sharpshooter especially
I mean if you compare Medium Adamantine Armor with the Heavy one you still get the same AC no matter your dex and the Splint Mail gets more damage reduction so it's objectively better in that instance. You have to specifically get the Armor of Agility in act 3 before you're outclassing the passives on the adamantine splint mail or the dwarven splint.
@DwarvesAndDice@@Chonusi lean toward dex-heavy build for my party so they have to compete for good medium or light armor so having one can use heavy armor early for me quite nice. in act2 there is an armor piece that can add fun dex to AC but only one. one another reason is i can use heavy crossbow(u get 3 martial crossbow/longbow in early act2), they do so much damage than regular one and not just chest piece. heavy prof just basically allows you to wear any good helm or gauntlet you come across
Some but not all is 1:1 The extra attacks from GWM (killing & critting) also need to be factored in which raises GWM above by a little bit But the -25% to hit and AC calculations will be pretty similar, yeh
@@DwarvesAndDice good to know, ty. Are you planning to do a similar video with GWM and the builds that take it? I mean I usually take it for the crits first and foremost but it would be nice to know exact numbers on the effectiveness of All-In.
@@tanktope5453 Yep I'm planning on doing something very similar to this with GWM, I just need to find a way to taken into account the extra attack on kill, once I do that it'll be basically ready. Of course taking into account the crit isn't too bad, just the kills really
That would be nice. My thinking is, ranged damage is more valueable than melee. getting ranged attacks to hit is easier than melee. But what do I know?@@DwarvesAndDice
@@matthawkins123 Although I think you're right about the ranged attacks being easier to hit, I think the extra attacks from GWM is very very powerful, especially when using certain builds... that being said the ranged might sitll come out in front, who knows until the calculations have been done 🤔
I have so many instances where my melee character cant reach the target, so he does zero damage on the first turn. But the ranged character can pretty always attack and his attacks are more likely to hit. So by the time the melee character reaches the target, the ranged character has already shot twice ( and probably killed the target). i always give my primary melee character the boots of speed to overcome this problem.@@DwarvesAndDice
@@matthawkins123 Yeh that's a very good point, I think it happens quite often too... I'm not sure if it's worth taking that into account in my videos but I think it does make quite a big difference over the course of the game, a very good point raised tho
I was waiting for someone to analyze this, and it's a good vod as always, but I think the terms here are somewhat wrong holding the numbers from where their actual potential. At this level any archery weapon on any character would have at least a +1 enchantment and dedicated archers would have at least one damage rider equipment.
Also, during act 2 assassins use either of the heavy crossbows, not hand crossbows. Those are 1d10 base, and that +2 avg dmg per hit difference (vs 1d6s) accumulates very fast between the guaranteed crits involved.
Yeh that's fair, do you think I should include a +1 for act 1, +2 = act, +3 = act 3? I'm not really sure at what level/part in the game you get access to what, but that would at least keep things simple
I still think heavy crossbows are behind the dual wield hand cross bows, even with the assassin buff, I could recalculate it but I was certain it was behind overall
@@DwarvesAndDice I'm not 100% what's the higher dps if you take 3+ turns, but the extra bonus action is nothing next to the auto crit, which also auto includes sneak attack of additional 4d6.
I'd say take into account +1 from lvl 5, and +2 from level 10 on, much like cantrips' advancement.
@@orshefer1467 I did a quick recalculation of the heavy crossbow +1, here you go:
ASI Assassin = 681 / day
SS Assassin = 636 / day
ASI Thief = 632 / day
SS Thief = 584 / day
But keep in mind you'd need to take a proficiency instead of either SS or ASI, therefore above is for level 10 and below is what it'd be with JUST the heavy crossbow proficiency feat:
Heavy crossbow only = 558 / day
@@DwarvesAndDicethanks for this, basically with ASI assassinhaving the same, correct me if I'm wrong - it shows that heavy crossbow does at least the same job as hand crossbows with less hits, and so turn "0" + turn 1 are way more hardhitting.
@@orshefer1467 No problem, I think I sent you the wrong numbers, I think here's the up to date ones:
ASI Assassin = 681 / day
SS Assassin = 636 / day
ASI Thief = 632 / day
SS Thief = 584 / day
So it means the ASI Assassin isn't that close to the one in the video:
ASI Assassin = 729.2
ASI Thief = 682
Sharpshooter Assassin = 676.16
Sharpshooter Thief = 689.2
The problem with assassin is that its bonuses are dependent on surprise rounds, which is why it's considered weak in regular D&D. It's easier in BG3 if you shoot first and ask questions never, but there are still some combats you'll have to use a lot of invisibility to get surprise.
Yeh I know a lot of dm's really hate running assassins for this exact reason, at least in BG3 it's a lot more consistent. Some other commenter in another video said their surprise round uptime was extremely high throughout their game, so I figured most fights can be surprised
I've been having a blast with my Assassin in Act 1. But I do wonder how good it will be in later acts. That's what worries me. 🤔
@@Rewwgh tbh I think it scales ok, I haven't tested it thoroughly but as far as I'm lead to believe it's just one of the best in the game, no matter your level. Only issue is some fights it's impossible to trigger surprise rounds but most fights are possible
The solution with assassin is to not rely on surprises, but abuse them to the max.
You STILL get all actions + bonus back, you have auto advantage, and the crits are bonuses.
@@orshefer1467 Yeh I think the surprise rounds are very abusable, especially if playing Dark Urge. I think it's one of my favourite subclasses after playing around with it for a little while, although surprise can be annoying at times, still getting actions after is really really nice.
TBH I think you've stumbled onto something I didn't take into account, the attack before the surprise round! Therefore an additional sneak attack could be added to each of the assassin builds which is quite nice!
In BG3 the enemy AC is known and expected damage vary a lot depending on the AC. For instance, high HP enemies with Low AC can be found in all acts.
IMO, A simple chart (similar to the chart @ 3:00) comparing expected damage / hit (y axis) vs AC (x axis) instead of using fixed AC would be great for decision making and makes it easier visually to compare the damage across all the builds.
Wow thanks that's a great suggestion! I think I will end up doing that quite often going forward, I think it's good to see as additional information but I think it's always good to have an approximate AC (Act1-3) for consistency, that way I don't have to quote every damage at every AC in the comparison slide but can still show how it varies with different AC enemies
I think it's also a great way to know what kinda of enemy the build should be targetting too, since it might show the build is really weak against tanks but strong against squshies
Thanks again!
The thing about sharpshooter is that you actually have control over it allowing you to turn it off for higher ac bosses and just shredding weaker enemies in 1-3 hits with sharpshooter instead of 5 or more. + being reliant on surprise round is not an option for some fights making thief versions better overall
Yeh I probably should have mentioned the toggle in the video. The only things with turning it off, it them means going ASI is just flat out better because you're then not getting the use of it, so no point in having it. Yeh sure that will only be against a few enemies but it's still then overall better with the ASI at that point
It is a really nice feature that you can turn it on/off tho, would be really useless if you couldn't
You are right with the surprise reliance, only thing is MOST fights can be surprised but of course some are impossible
"all in" for SS and GWM can be disabled as necessary, depending on the target AC. I only enable it when chance to hit is 80 percent plus, often when I get advantage through any means, especially due to the fact that on tactician f.e. I suspect the game is fudging the dice based on the hit frequencies I observe.
Yeh I probably should have mentioned that it's toggleable. The only thing at that point, if you're toggling it off a lot then you shouldn't have taken it as a feat, it would only lower the average dmg output, although you're right about it being better used in that way, I guess I could look into when it's worth toggling on/off in another video!
Are you sure you're not using Karmic dice?
You can turn off karmic dice, no? Is there still a shadow karma?
@@jeremygardner5987 Yeh that's what I'm thinking... I really really hope they don't have a shadow karmic dice, that would be really horrible...
@@DwarvesAndDice I think a lot of people have it on. It defaults on IIRC and it sounds like a GOOD thing. It wasn't until I kept seeing people talk about how it can actually hurt you that I finally turned mine off.
@@JohnVanderbeck Yeh I'm really surprised they have it on by default, I feel like it's definitely an opt into rather than opt out of kinda thing
I saw a video that looked into it and it is mathematically equal to the normal dice rolls but it definitely feels like the rolls are fudged imo
One of the best usages of Sharpshooter is with a complementary party. Sneaky archer types (my unofficial categorisation of the builds here) hitting from high ground are a great complement for a 2-4 player party game and probably will not be a go to choice for min-maxers in my opinion.
Yeh I think it definitely fits into a full party well, at least in terms of being able to take high ground etc
I’d have liked to see the analysis with enchanted weapons given their abundance in game, but this does still illustrate that flat damage bonuses are less impactful on critical hits
Yeh you're right they're definitely important and probably should have been mentioned, the only thing is picking which ones to mention is always a challenge
If I talked about them all it'd take too long, and talking about the best would also be long and hard to calculate, as well as likely being replaced soon after
I suppose one way to think of how much the damage difference would be is it'll be similar to that of using an ASI vs no feat
If you think it'll be interesting or worth it I could do a video detailing how much of a difference enchantment makes to the damage overall and how to calculate it for each type of weapon and level of enchantment?
You really are right that it’s a huge number of factors. Your video illustrates that sharp shooter isn’t a necessity for a strong build, so that’s honestly enough analysis on its own. If you wanted to look into enchanted weapons it would probably be beneficial to run tests with a +2 bow or crossbow for late game and maybe vary it up with the archery fighting style. But then again, there are also gloves and helmets that increase hit chance and coatings, so maybe it’s better to see what level of attack bonus is necessary for sharp shooter to be stronger than asi instead.
@@blazingazong Yeh that's a good point, try to find the cross over point for where the additional damage/hit chance over takes the other options
Automaton gloves and or risky ring make the hit chance drawback of sharpshooter kind of meaningless. Its also pretty easy to just go rush the spider guy in act 2 and command drop his lantern and then go to the tower to buy or steal the risky ring. You can also grab the drakethroat glaive for +1 weapon enchantment til long rest which afaik is also basically like 5-7.5%-ish more hit chance and oil of accuracy / sharpness are plentiful and dirt cheap from traders for further hit chance increases.
Yeh I think the risky ring is definitely a must have if you're not already using it on another party member
Just finished an honour mode run playing as a Ranger, Hunter subclass.
This build was all about leveraging heavy hitting ranged attacks and the Sharpshooter feat.
I went with the ASI at level 4 and added Auntie Ethel’s hair to bring Dexterity up to 20. Then I picked up Sharpshooter at level 8.
I also chose the Archery fighting style, which gives Rangers +2 to all ranged attack rolls. And I also picked up the Colossus killer ability, which adds an additional 1d8 damage to any enemy that isn’t at full health.
Hunter’s Mark is the one spell key to the build, and it adds an additional 1d6 to the damage.
Now, some important items.
In Act 2, I picked up the Hunter’s Circlet from a trader in Moonrise Tower. That item adds 1d4 to the hit chance against any enemy marked with Faerie Fire, Guiding Bolt, or Hunter’s Mark.
I also equipped a ring that added 1d4 psychic damage to weapon attacks if I’m concentrating on a spell. And Hunter’s Mark requires concentration. All day long.
I also used the ring that adds 2 acid damage. As an added bonus, the acid damage would lower an enemy’s AC (if a shot lands). It consistently applies 2 damage then buffs all subsequent shots by +1 (or +5%) in the change to hit.
When you put it all together, this Ranger, Hunter subclass can run around Act 2 with the Sharpshooter attack toggled on and still have 90% to 95% chance to hit. And every shot that lands hits hard.
In terms of gameplay, this Ranger outperforms Battlemaster Lae’zel and ranging throw barbarian Karlach.
Does this really out damage BM Fighter Lae#zel and Berserker Barbarian Karlach? I can see where you're getting HEAPS of damage but is it really as much as the other 2 builds?
Also running colossus slayer limits your damage compared to hoard breaker, especially since you're going full ranger
I know that going ASI into SS is good for ranger, since there isn't another good ranged feat but I still feel like SS isn't that great, espcially when using non-hand crossbows (unless you were with this build?? It would partner well with all the buffs you're getting so I'd imagine you might?)
I think having that hunter's mark + items combo is really really nice, good job, I also really like the use of acid
@@DwarvesAndDice I went with the Joltybolt longbow for most of the game. That is one of the three lightning infused weapons available after rescuing Florik from Waukeem’s Rest. I headed there pretty much after getting to the Grove and saving Arabella from Kagha’s snake. And I used it right up until the middle of Act 3-replacing it with the legendary Dead Eye longbow that you can purchase from a vendor in the central lower city. And then, for the end game, going with the legendary longbow you can get from the Titan steel watcher in the foundry.
I was playing around with lighting gear. The Real Sparkysparks wall shield was meh. Used its ability just twice in the campaign. Totally underwhelming.
But the Jolty vest-purchased from the same Zent trader that sells the Titanbow-was pretty good. The bow charged up the vest, and then when my character took damage, sometimes that enemy gets hit with a shocking discharge that often left them stunned. Half-decent crowd control and bonus damage delivered on the enemy’s turn.
As for the lightning bow, it would deal +1 lightning damage per shot while charging up and +4 lightning damage whenever it discharges, which is every fourth shot. And if you are leaning on lightning damage with other party members (Gale with lightning spells and a tempest cleric Shadowheart) the joltyshooter longbow synergies very well with that party.
But the thing I liked the most about this build was being able to deal large of damage consistently-more consistently than Lae’zel and her great swords. Even more consistently than Karlach throwing javelins and hatchets. However, once Karlach got that legendary trident in Act 3, she and this Ranger built were pretty much on par with each other.
@@wfdmount Sorry TH-cam gave me no notification for this comment...
Wow that build really did carry you through the whole game! I'm surprised it was able to be more consistent than Throwing Karlach, very very nice!
I want to do a playthrough mainly going with the lightning gear, see how far it can go. I know there are some builds that min/max the lightning dmg, so maybe I'll do something like that
@@DwarvesAndDice I had the same desire-to play around with the lighting gear.
I started another game. Same Ranger build, but this time I’m going to use the Titanstring bow and guzzle giant elixirs.
I wasn’t planning on using the Jolty Vest this play through. Then I noticed that the gauntlets you can pick up from tree in the swamp after the fight with the wood woads and mud mephits could allow Karlach to earn lightning charges with every throw. I haven’t tried it out yet but will find out if it works the next time so sit down to play.
The spellsparkler staff is definitely the best item of the three options available after rescuing Florick since it applies +1 lightning damage to each magic missile. Plus you get bonus lightning damage, +4, whenever the staff discharges. And it appears to apply a special double damage discharge if you can fully charge then discharge the staff in one attack, which happens every time you upcast Magic Missile at level 2.
So with a level 2 magic missile, the bonus lightning damage appears to be something like +0, +1, +1, and +8 for the four missiles.
I just reached level 5 and finished clearing the Goblin camp in this game. I had blade ward buff-mistress Shadowheart and battlemaster Lae’zel in the party the entire day. I used Gale with the spellsparkler until he no longer have any spells slot left and then substituted him for raging throw barbarian Karlach.
Gale, Lae’zel, and Karlach were powerful characters able to deal lots of damage and takeout enemies quickly. The Ranger, however, was the MVP.
Ranger Tav was a one shot, one kill longbow sniper in the goblin camp.
Both Gale and Karlach were great in the fight, but they have limited spell slots and rage charges. Battle master Lae’zel has a lot of potential for massive burst damage-if she is fresh off a short rest and has her action surge and special weapons attacks available. Ranger Tav, however, is just consistent, massive damage with high hit chances all day long.
@@wfdmount let me know if you find out if those gloves work with throwing weapons, that would be a GREAT use for the gloves if you're not running a monk!
Oh yeh for sure, the spellsparkler is definitely my go to choice everytime
I love hearing about your in game experiences, it really puts into perspective how good the ranged builds can be, and like you said it's sooo consistent it feels great!
Do an extra 10 damage for absolutely no drawback since it is almost too easy in this game to get advantage which completely negates the -5 yes lol
Yeh that's fair, but then you're likely taking the advantage away from someone else in the party
I feel like only looking at rogues for this skews the data in favor of ASI due to needing accuracy for their sneak attacks, when really the strength of sharpshooter comes from it being paired with the archery fighting style to offset the penalty and sheer number of attacks per round. Sharpshooter battle master fighter has long been viewed as one of the highest DPR builds in DND for this reason. Would be curious to see other classes reviewed with this in mind
I can certainly have a look into how it compares and make a follow up video, I can also include all of the other comments & suggestions into that video and compare back to the results from this one, I think that's a good idea
Do you think BM Fighter, Ranger (GS & Hunter), Rogues (Assassin + Thief), CoS Bard are the best to compare between? I can't think of any one else that would make use of ranged right?
@@DwarvesAndDice Yeah, those are probably the best pure ranged martial subclasses out there. Could also look into the Gloomstalker ranger 5/assassin rogue 3+ multiclass that is out there as well in addition to the pure class builds. For gloomstalker ranger/assassin I know it's generally preferable to use a heavy crossbow for those 2d10 crits, especially since you can get proficiency without needing to use a feat
@@mithikz7608 I guess I could do the multiclasses yeh, this is all the combos right? I know some are likely to be bad but that's fine. Do you think the levels are good? I was trying to balance getting feats/passives etc:
GS 5 + Assassin 4
Hunter 5 + Assassin 4
GS 5 + Thief 4
Hunter 5 + Thief 4
BM Fighter 9
BM Fighter 6 + Assassin 3
BM Fighter 6 + Thief 3
BM Fighter 6 + GS 3
BM Fighter 6 + Hunter 3
CoS Bard 6 + BM Fighter 3
CoS Bard 6 + (thief 3 & assassin 3) - Already done
My playstyle and preference is first round nova, especially now considering Honor mode. My objective becomes eliminating the boss before any of the legendary actions can occur limiting my need to interact with them. So something like an Swords 6 + Assassin 3 with Titanstring and Hill Giant club gives the most round 1 nova and can trivialize several encounters and further push the advantage to Assassin over Thief. As far as the benefit of Sharpshooter, with the skill being toggleable I can keep my rolls as high as possible for the boss then take advantage of the bonus damage on the other trash. For the burst round it outperforms the ASI build, so I think its worth having.
Yeh nova is kinda just the best way to go. The only problem is that you're disabling the sharpshooter, where if you went just an ASI, all of those shots would do more damage. Although I like that you can disable it, I don't like disabling it since it's then just a bit of a waste of a feat
I don't think that crits from assassin are actually good. Surprise rounds with ranged weapons are kinda janky, so I usually use Shovel to trigger them, making Assassin's Alacrity usless.
Even ignoring that, which could very well be a player issue, I find that the fact that many difficult bosses have the alert feat destroys the purpose of Assassinate: Ambush, since the non-boss fights are piss easy anyways and when you would need the extra damage it doesnt even work.
Yeh that's a fair point about the boss mobs and needing the damage for those fights over small fights, I haven't thought about it that way before
I do think the majority of fights are easy enough to trigger surprise tho, that aren't boss fights etc. BUT I do know it can be quite buggy at times... IDK if there's a good way to trigger it, without the like of Shovel, just so you can use up your action for a sneak attack etc
Oh and I forgot a cool way to offset SS downside. (I used it in my second run months ago, I hope it still works, but some testing may be required)
If you go swords bard 6 for the extra attack and battlemaster you can pick up precision attack, which is utter spaghetti code. For some ungodly reason if you use it on slashing flourish you get the accuracy bonus applied to both attacks, but it also applies to damage. That ramps up your damage by a lot and almost completely offsets the -5 of SS. Everything lines up very well with bard inspiration, since if you use action surge you get 4 attacks, and have exactly 4 inspirations and 4 superiority dices. After that your damage drops substantially since you blew the whole load, but there is very little that survives it. Try it out if you havn't, it's very fun :D@@DwarvesAndDice
@@franciscofracaro3648 Ohhh wow that's spicy! I like that a lot, how do you use the precision attack with the Slashing Flourish? I thought it was something you clicked on and use? Or can you set it as a passive to ask when it's useful?
If that still works/works as intended I love it, I might even feature it in a build because it's so cool
Precision attack is a free action that gives you a condition that applies the bonus on your next attack roll and then expires. Just use the precision attack action before slashing flourish and everything should work.
I did some testing, and it seems that they patched the extra damage (you will only get the extra 1d8 from bardic inspiration) :C The accuracy still applies to both attacks tho :D
@@DwarvesAndDice
@@franciscofracaro3648 Unfortunate about the extra damage but I wonder if that extra chance to hit is worth it, I'd assuming it'd make some difference but I'm not sure. I really like that interaction tho
Love this series!
Thank you very much! I'm very glad you're enjoying it! There will definitely be more to come but I'm a little overwhelmed with uni work atm!
It's mathematically correct, but it's wrong. Taking Sharpshooter to then shoot with 35% to hit is wrong. I can understand that someone can hear at Reddit that Sharpshooter is free damage and then blindly enable sharpshooter and then start wondering why things are so bad. It's a wrong way to play sharpshooter.
I very often take sharpshooter on lvl4, but I only do so when first and foremost I have Archery fighting style. I prefer Astarion with Happy buff to be my sharpshooter if it fits. I very diligently seek to always fire from high ground and have some advantage if possible. Bless is mandatory, Falar Aluve sing is highly advised as well. Finally for real important fights I use precision oil or how do you call it, and for less important fights I use that oil that instead of +2 to hit gives +1 to hit and +1 to damage, just for to hit part of course.
Having less than 60% chance to hit is an obvious cancer, even if it would be good on average, just because of non-stop gameplay frustration. So Sharpshooter is very good, but you should play around it.
I see, so when you aim to use Sharpshooter, you're always maxing your chance to hit anyways, so it feels a lot less detrimental to have the -25%
The only thing is it would need to be a level 10 build to fully take advantage of having Archery FS, at 10 taking 1 level into fighter would be my suggestion
I think if you're not going CoS Bard/Thief for the extra attacks it's overall never really worth going Sharpshooter, then just going the ASI is always better. The extra attacks synergise too well with Sharpshooter and hence is the only real way (that I know of) to really min/max it
I try not to include things like the oils, although they're great in game and should be used, it's really complicated to try min/max all items/buffs like that. It's also less consistent since you can't always have that every single fight but I do get why you run these for the build, it makes a lot of sense
@@DwarvesAndDice year, tbh I feel sharpshooter is kinda minmaxy and for anyone who's not into optimizing fun out of game I would advice ASI. One can never go wrong with ASI.
@@dimKiriyenko Yeh ASI is just the kind of back up option for everyone at anytime, it's always good, very rarely bad
Hey, this is unrelated but definitely relevant to your channel. Do you know if there's any way to influence wild surges? I.E halfling luck to reroll the 1s, or reducing crit threshold? Theres barely any information out there on it which is strange considering as a luck based class youd think the dice math nerds of us would have documented this.
No problem it's unrelated, it's what I'm here for! As far as I know there's no way to influence it other than influencing it coming up more by using the sorcerer Tides of Chaos.
As far as I know it's all just rolled on a d20 (for sorc), if 20 then surge but it seems to be separate from crit, it's specifically looking for the "20"
I agree it's strange, at least confirmation that it works like that at a minimum
@@DwarvesAndDice Yeah, I'd need to do some testing and don't have time for it for a few days, but it's a shame if there really is no way at all to effect the roll besides the feywild ring and turn tides. A wildmagic sorcerer maximizing surges would be pretty interesting and maybe even pretty strong given youve picked up the tools to mitigate the downside pool. Thanks for the feedback though
@@celestialowl8865 let me know what you find, but I have a sneaking suspicion there wont be a way to effect it sadly
I'm really not sure why go for Rogue. Fighter dip will give you Archery FS, Armour prof, Heavy Crossbow and Action surge so you can blow all your 4 Inspirations in one turn. Yes Assassin is nice if you can start combat in surprise but other stuff seem to be lackluster.
How are you blowing all 4 inspirations in a turn? Also by that level you have 5 in total. I think assassin should have a higher damage potential than the fighter, although I'm just doing some mental maths for that, I don't have any calculations for it
Getting the armour prof isn't that great tho, since you're going a dex build, it'll limit the dex buff to your AC and have bad stealth checks (although I guess that's less important since you're not going rogue)
Tbh it's probably what I'd recommend for level 10 is to take a one level dip in to fighter. I still think the hand crossbows are better over the heavy crossbow, as far as I can tell
@DwarvesAndDice You are not limited to one Slashing Flourish per turn. So 8 attacks in one turn kinda kicks ass. Yes, you will be quite limited on other rounds, but who cares if the enemy is so weakened by your initial assault.
Rogue does have a sneak atack, so 2d6 is nice, and I guess in DPR will be slightly better, but as said before, dead enemies don't care how much you can kick them afterwards.
@@dudovsky Yeh but surely that's then just 2 slashing flourish, then the action surge gives you plus 1, so how are you getting 4? That does mean my calculations are minus 1 slashing flourish per combat, oops!
@DwarvesAndDice action surge is a full action, unlike hasted action in Honour mode. You can attack twice again. Or cast a spell. It is a pretty powerful feature to any character.
Edit: in BG3 you can cast with hasted action, so Martials got one more short end of the stick, oh well.
@@dudovsky Ahh I do normally do these based off of honour mode, since that's where people are going to struggle the most. I didn't think the action surge gave you 2 attacks but I guess I just got mixed up with honour mode
Bard level 6 gets 2 slashing flourish’s per turn, not 1
I thought they could only use 1 / turn (I was wrong)
But overall they only have 5 per combat and I used up 4 of those, so technically there would be +1 baric attack +2 bardic damage dice to each of the builds
Sorry for the mistake!
Isn't this overly complicated?
The crit chance and crit damage can be ignored because that part is not changed with sharpshooter.
The number of actions and bonus actions, etc. also doesn't change with or without sharpshooter.
Really only need to look at damage x probability versus (damage + 10) x (probability - 0.25)
For an average damage of d = 10 or below (which is normally the case) the cutoff point is p=50%
So if your average damage is 10 or less and hit chance is 50% or more, you should enabe sharpshooter
Ok, I guess the point of the video was Sharpshooter vs ASI in the early game. That makes sense. I assumed you do both in the late game.
I see what you mean, I feel like showing more working that less is always better, it's not been the first time someone has noticed a mistake from being able to see it all laid out like that.
I do think the crit chance changes with sharpshooter, at least on the assassin crit round, since crit chance = hit chance there and sharpshooter reduces that chance to hit
But the number of actions and bonus damage does change between the subclasses, which is important to look at too, so it needs to still be included right?
I see what you mean, I like reducing it to that level, maybe I will adopt that method for some other videos going forward!
So I think I followed… had to watch a couple of times.
I think most people who take SS know that you have to do something to compensate. It is not just point and click.
Bless, Phalur Aluve Sing, Oil of Accuracy, High Ground, etc, all will increase those chances.
Yes, it will increase for ASI as well but there appears to be some diminishing return as you are closer to the ceiling for return as you are closer to 100% to hit.
Also there’s something to be said for killing something quicker to eliminate threats to you that prevent you from dealing damage.
Appreciate the work though and it does make me think I want to try Assassin.
I'm sorry if it was hard to follow with, I try to make it as step by step as I can, if there's something you would suggest let me know, and if there's anything you still don't understand, just comment and I'll see if I can help you out 😄
Yeh the ceiling definitely favours SS over ASI for sure, the only thing with ASI in those situations is the -2 from low grounds is slightly compensated for by the ASI
Absolutely agree about the killing faster is generally better, very very few encounters I imagine is it better to deal damage slower
Thank you very much, assassin is fun, especially for a second playthrough, then you know how to trigger surprised rounds and don't care about dialogue as much
@@DwarvesAndDice Nah, you’re good. Something like this is hard to condense for TH-cam consumption and you did a good job with this. I think anyone who subscribes to you expects this.
@@HuyNguyen-ck7hl Yeh that's a fair point, and thank you I'm trying to make it as condensed but still enough context as possible, I hope it's working! And I'm glad you're enjoying
Someone told me it was op, so i use it all the time 🙈
Yeh I was told it was really really OP too, that's why I had to find out HOW OP it actually was
I don't know why but I just prefer Gloom Stalker 5/Assassin 7 and just use bows and starts combat from sneak and rest much less.
I player Sword Bard with hand crossbows and still Gloom Stalker 5/Assassin 7 felt just more cool and more powerful with the guaranteed crits and all the items increasing crit chance.
Yeh I can understand that, the only thing is GS isn't really the strongest, although it does feel really good and fits a nice niche, also does partner beautifully with Assassin as you do
There is a big difference between optimizing for 1 round of combat vs. multiple.
No reason not to run both or else swap to Sword / Rogue for boss fights.
@@DavidHarris74 Well as long as you use a bow on Gloom Stalker 5/Assassin 7 you can just hide at the end of each turn making you be great at 1st turn and good at all the other.
@@zarddin Yeh that's a fair point, having the BA hide is really nice to have, great for sneak attacks too (something the dual crossbows lack - although I suppose you could give up some BAs for a hide)
@@DavidHarris74 I do try to have a back up plan, just in case, I think it's always better just in case things go south
Crossbows are nice and all but.. Titanstring bow exists.
When you run the Titanstring, what stats and build do you use?
When I've done a quick calculation to see how good it is, the results look like this:
ASI Assassin = 676 / day
SS Assassin = 607 / day
ASI Thief = 594 / day
SS Thief = 560 / day
Compared to the video buids:
ASI Assassin = 729.2 / day
ASI Thief = 682 / day
Sharpshooter Assassin = 676.16 / day
Sharpshooter Thief = 689.2 / day
@@DwarvesAndDiceThe build I am following recommends Titanstring Bow with holding a Club of Giant Strength in the melee slot. The item from the Arcane Tower that sets STR to 19. Also the Hill Giant elixir exists. But I personally don't find it flavourable for an Assassin so I run other stuff.
@@Rewwgh I don't really like using Hill Giant Elixir for that, I'd rather keep it for someone else, and use a different elixir for this build, maybe bloodlust but idk for sure
I also did the calculation for the Titanstring with having +5 strength:
So I guess using the Titanstring with the club is a really good combo
ASI Assassin = 856 / day
SS Assassin = 715 / day
ASI Thief = 773 / day
SS Thief = 668 / day
@@DwarvesAndDice Nice! I was wondering if you could also take a look at using a Heavy Crossbow with the Gloves of Archery that give Rogue proficiency with said crossbow and a bit more flat damage. I run those gloves with Harold from the Zhents.
@@Rewwgh So the gloves don't give you proficiency with heavy crossbows but I did a quick recalculation of the heavy crossbow +1, here you go:
ASI Assassin = 723 / day
SS Assassin = 636 / day
ASI Thief = 632 / day
SS Thief = 584 / day
Heavy crossbow (no feats) = 558 / day
I didn't use to like math
Have I brought you over to the dark side then? 😂
Since you didn't like maths, can I ask what brought you're attention here? I've seen you around a few videos but I thought only maths lovers were going to watch it, so what do you like about the videos?
@@DwarvesAndDiceI don't like to math much, but i like to know stuff.
So i watch your videos because you very eloquently explain stuff that i wanna know about the game, which is pretty much everything.
@@TitoVespasianus Ahh ok, well I'm glad I can be of use for you!
This analysis is really a perfect example of why math doesn't tell you everything. Sure it van provide a base level for comparison and to base decisions on, but it can never capture the "real world" or the actual application in many cases, such a this one where you have high ground/low ground changing the numbers, and how often you get surprise rounds changing the numbers.
Yeh it would just be too difficult to take everything into account but as you say, it's a good baseline to start optimising from. The only thing is the surprise rounds can be done pretty consistently, with only a few fights being forced into non-surprise
@@DwarvesAndDice I think the caveat here is "they can be done pretty consistently if you have already played through the game and really know the encounters". Even having played through Act 1 tons of times, I don't think I've ever gotten surprise rounds on the three largest fights I can think off. Maybe I'm just dumb :)
@@JohnVanderbeck Yeh ok that's a fair point, only thing is if you're searching for a video like mine you've probably played the game a good bit but I totally understand where you're coming from
I mainly play co-op so my co-op players end up starting fights before I can get surprise rounds, so I don't really know the full extent of how easy they are to pull off consistently
@@DwarvesAndDice I think what's frustrating is if you choose the "Attack" option mid conversation you don't even get a surprise round. Like you are just chilling having a chat then you suddenly pull out your weapons and the other guy isn't surprised? On top of that a lot of fights trigger after a cutscene so those don't have them either.
Like in Act 1, the first grove fight, any of the goblin leader fights, ethel, none of those can be surprise fights AFAIK know. Neither can the windmill in the blighted village, or the phase spider (I don't think on that last one but I might be wrong) or the Paladins since again you have to talk to them first. Honestly the only Act 1 fights I can think of that I have ever gotten surprise rounds on where easy fights anyway.
Like I said maybe I'm doing something wrong. Just thinking about the Paladins now, maybe instead of talking to them to trigger the fight you need to just right click and Attack. That might do it, but then you miss out on the story that the dialog gives you.
EDIT: That should have said "if you choose the attack option mid conversation... brains"
@@JohnVanderbeck That's strange, youtube didn't give me a notification for this massage
I don't think you have to talk to the Paladins but I think you're right with the rest
I do really feel like it's built for someone who wants to shoot first and cast speak with dead tbh 🤣
I feel like you need to have info from a previous run to make it worth it and to not skip speaking with people for plot
Where does the fourth attack for the assassin come from? I only can think of 2*main hand and 1*off hand
The fourth attack is from 1 extra attack from the slashing flourish per turn
Thanks for making this video. I personally am not a fan of GWM and SS but I was curious on how much potential I am leaving on the table by simply taking ASI or a utility feat like Lucky.
No problem at all, I hope it helped! I get why you don't like running it that much, the -25% was what turns me away from it, it just doesn't feel that good. Of course it might depend on other builds but for the most part going ASI doesn't seem bad at all
GWM gives you an extra attack on kill even if you dont turn on the extra dmg passive. It also stacks with rage potions. Its a good feat regardless if you want to play risky or not. SS is objectively worse feat, but the only real feat for ranged characters.
@@Debilinside Yeh in when I was talking about GWM there, I just meant the +10 dmg part of it, the extra attacks part is insanely strong and worth running even if you just turn off the passive (unlike SS, having just the low ground buff)
It sucks there are not other decent options for a ranged build...
@@DwarvesAndDice Agreed. I hope they will address it in the future or if they release a DLC/Expansion.
@@Debilinside I’d love an expansion!
Why has Sharpshooter Assassin 35% hit chance but Thief 40%?
Ohhh well spotted, I messed that up for some reason, I'm not really sure how I managed to make that mistake, thanks for pointing it out!
Therefore it should be 38 dmg / turn, 152 / combat, 606 / day
What about Titanstring Bow with Elixir of Hill/Cloud Giant Strength ? You're probably not using ASI Dex on that build
Also I know that you're analysing this within an act 2 context but there's so many bonuses you can get for hit chance that you can easily offset sharpshooters maluses ( e.g. mask of soul perception)
I’m not really the best with items, I try to keep my builds away from items, unless its integral for the build to work. That’s mostly just because idk most of them and I dont wanna force story choices on viewers
I get what you mean tho, it is likely stronger than I’m giving some credit for, but it also means there will be items that benefit ASI too
I forgot it was even a thing when making the video. I looked at the damage of Titanstring in another comment, i cant quite remember how well it did (with a quick calculation) but it wasnt insane dmg if I remember right
Would the light crossbow build be better for Minthara because she wants to use her bonus action on soul branding?
For her you could go the Titanstring bow, it might work better with her stats
I would love a video running the numbers on “Charger” since it gives +5 damage and movement at the cost of both action and bonus action. So it would be compared with great weapon master and savage attacker for outputs. The main consideration for charger is the fact you don’t lose attack roll chance. Would it average more?
Ooo interesting, I haven't seen anyone mention charger yet, so I'm curious what could be done to min/max it!
I'm going to assume that the +5 dmg isn't huge but it honestly might JUST eek out in front because of not reducing attack chance
@@DwarvesAndDice You don't need to have the passive on to make use of the bonus attack on crit or kill though and the bonus attack is a full attack, so unless you're doing 5 or less, it will always be better than charger. There is a mod that make charger cost only action though, so that might be worthwhile. I would use Charger for some Tank/Disrupter build and GWM on Crit/Striker builds.
@@TitoVespasianus Yeh that's a fair point, I do dislike having things disabled, since you're not making full use of it but the extra attacks are kinda too strong to say no to...
I feel like charger shouldn't cost Action + Bonus, I think it's too much so maybe the mod is onto something there
swap con and wis, and last 3 levels into gloomstalker. also, why do you not factor in the to hit from your weapons, at least, 2-4 depending.
When I swap in 3 levels of Gloomstalker, the damage drops to ~135 / combat (~540 / day)
What do you mean by the from hit for the weapons? Enchantments or?
@@DwarvesAndDice enchantments, and the presumed elemental weapon buff. and I only saw 9 levels accounted for. 6 bard, 3 rogue. But yes, every weapon you equpi is going to provide a minimum of +1 throughout the game. the reason I mention that is it significantly increases the hit chance for the sharpshooter.
I think the math gets way harder when starting to account for items but yeah, part of the reason why sharpshooter can be good is from the items and spells to boost to hit like bless. Also it is toggleable which is really nice, if an enemy has a high ac dont use it but if they have a low ac it is free damage
@@programmernerd3803 also seems weird he didnt include the best easy to get bow, (titanstring) which has an even higher damage rate
@@DellikkilleD Yeh that's fair, I'm thinking I might do something like Act 1 = +1 enchant, act 2 =+2, act 3 = +3 but I'm not sure if that's all that accurate / representative, but I suppose it's better than not including it
I would rather alpha strike, kill 1 or more baddies, then use my bonus to stealth and dash away. Much safer on honour mode.
Gloom / Ass with Sharp, Titan, and potion with +hit and +dmg gear is working quite well.
What do you mean alpha strike?
That's definitely a viable build, I think there's room for min/maxing and making it personalised too
Why disregard heavy crossbows?
Rogues arent proficient in heavy crossbows, just light(simple weapons) and hand
You'd need to take a feat to get proficiency, other wise at level 10 I guess you could dip a level into a martial class to grab the proficiency, which might be the way forward for the build but I only calculate for level 9
@@nature337 Exactly, plus the off hand attacks add up more than the single hand attacks, especially for a thief
@@DwarvesAndDice that makes a lot of sense! My only reason for asking is I got wrapped up doing similar ranger and ranger/rogue damage calcs for sharpshooter and hunter's mark with heavy vs hand crossbows. I think the reapplication of hunter's mark plus, for example, a beastmaster's companion's damage and redux of hunter's mark damage is an interesting variable below level 9. I'd love if you did a video on how it math's out
@@Voremaster420 Ahhaaa I see, that's a good point about hunter's mark (one of my fav spells btw, LOVE IT)
I kind of always assume you'll have your spell on someone, I forget that you'll need a BA to cast it, I think that's an interesting thing to look into, and see if there's a certain number of bonus actions that it's still worth it to go one weapon over the other, when running a hunter's mark build
Ayo, Maths nerd! A little help please.
Its possible to add 17 extra damage to an eldritch blast from combining potent robe, empowered evocation and agonizing blast. Though, to do it you have to play as dark urge and give alfira a concussion as to not kill her.
Like the levels of bs and hoops you need to do for this to work is just silly:
You use two asi's on intelligence, and you also use both hags hair, patriahs memory, mirror of loss, and birth right on charisma.
You have to start with both 16 in intelligence and charisma.
I believe you have to have a dex and wisdom score of 12.
And then a con score of 10.
I think evocation warlock is something you relcass into at the end of the game, I couldn't imagine playing as 2/10 warlock/wizard from the beginning to end with awful ability score distribution.
I think the standard warlock min-max items for EB would work fine with this build. Just from the items I already mentioned, a single eldritch blast is going to do a minimum of 18 damage if one projectile hits and a minimum of 54 if all three projectiles hit. And a maximum of 27 if one hits, and maximum of 87 if all three hit.
Again, thats without proper itemization and crits.
If you are hasted and with a bloodlust elixir, thats a minimum of 54 if all three actions only have one projectile hit and maximum of 261 if all three actions have all projectiles hit. How would you improve this? Because I've played the game like heck and cannot think what would improve this.
I like the idea of the build, albeit it is a little hard to get going!
Honestly I'm not 100% sure how I would take that to the next level, it's already quite well flushed out, I'm better with early game min/max than late game, as I know much less of late game in depth but I can give it a go:
One issue is you need to drop both feats as ASI improvement, it might be better to go spell sniper, the extra crit chance is going to feel really good with this build I think, although most of the things added aren't dice so wont benefit from the crit
One way to make use of that crit could be running some spells like hex, where every beam will apply an instance of hex or whatever else spell's damage, which will also crit. This might take the build up a few notches but I'm not really sure what else is good and how you would take it.
I get you're going 10 levels into wizard for the empowered evocation passive, is it actually worth it tho? You're putting 10 levels into the class and also a lot of points into int, if you switch out the wizard for something like level 3 assassin rogue, it might increase the damage over all (I haven't done calculations)
The Rogue method would partner well with additional crit btw, and also might be better going sorcerer as the finial levels you need. This allows you to use your meta magic to have an even stronger burst round during the surprise round, e.g. having a spell as a bonus action then that's another spell that will crit that round
If you have any other suggestions or questions let me know!
@@DwarvesAndDice Another thing I have found out is that barbarian has synergy with abjuration wizard. If you rage and have run out of arcane ward stacks, your arcane ward stacks reset.
A 5/5/2 Barbarian/Wizard/Paladin might be best to make use of that.
@@jakeparkinson8929 WAIT WHAT? So if you rage WHILE at 0 stacks, you go back to normal starting stacks???
@@DwarvesAndDice Yes, as of patch 6.
@@jakeparkinson8929 NO WAY! Do you mind if I make a video about that? That's awesome!
If you actually know how to make a build it’s a free 10 damage so it is definitely good lol
What do you mean? Do you think my builds are bad? I think the -25% chance to hit is quite a downside, as shown in the video, I don't think there's a way to further min/max it to bring Sharpshooter up to par, maybe one or two niche builds tho?
If you have a suggestion I can always give it a quick calculation and see where it lies?
@@DwarvesAndDice I’m sure your builds are ok but any archery based build should have 20-22 dex. And there’s plenty of items to offset the -5 to attack roll(legacy of masters,mask of soul perception, etc) and also the +2 to attack rolls for the archery fighting style
@@DwarvesAndDice I’ve used sharpshooter on all my archery builds and never had too much of a problem hitting. Same thing with heavy weapon master. I do wish that sharpshooter got the bonus action attack like great weapon master so that longbows and short bows and crossbows were more on par with hand crossbows
@@triplethreatgaming8583 Only thing is you wouldn't have access to the archery fighting style since it's 6 Bard / 3 Rogue, of course upon leveling you could grab it. I get what you mean about having more chance to hit but through most of my time playing, the chance to hit is normally quite low (although that's mostly early game I'm thinking of) but that is when you first get the Sharpshooter
@@triplethreatgaming8583 I think it would be a little OP if it also gave the extra attack bonus action, but you're right they do need something to bring them in line with the hand crossbows
How’d you make the like button glow when you mentioned hitting it? Lol The math alone made me hit it, but that effect on top made me Sharpshooter: All in!
Ahh the like button / sub button lighting up is a new feature from youtube, it released a few month ago and it hears when I say either subscribe or like and it'll light up! Pretty cool feature imo
I'm really glad you enjoyed it! I've been busy lately but I'm coming to the end of that soon so many more videos to come!
I had sharpshooter on my rogue fighter who had advantave on all 5 of his crossbow attacks every turn. I'd say sharpshooter was worth it there
How do you manage to always have advantage?
@@DwarvesAndDice I don't remember the name but it was a magic ring that gives advantage on all attacks but disadvantage on all saving throws. Since he was always at pretty good range and had a ton of movement, the saving throw thing didn't matter too much
@@donniejefferson9554 Ahhh yeh Risky Ring, that is a fair point since you should always be at ranged, you're relatively safe (except weak to spells I guess)
@@DwarvesAndDice It wasn't an issue until the final battle when I was using him to take out the mind flayers on the elder brain. He got his fair share of getting stunned. Still worked out though
@@donniejefferson9554 Fair enough, glad it worked overall. I think Risky Ring is so strong, only issue is who to put it on every run 😅
i alway get 1lv of fighter for achery fighting style so sharpshooter only -3 to attackrolls, con prof for control spell, heavy armor, right at level 1
I was going to say (and forgot to) was that at level 10 I'd likely dip a level into fighter just for action surge etc.
Imo the heavy armour isn't that good because you can't add your dex to the AC that way, all the other stuff is nice tho. I do think the +2 to attack rolls is really nice, for any of the builds but for the sharpshooter especially
I mean if you compare Medium Adamantine Armor with the Heavy one you still get the same AC no matter your dex and the Splint Mail gets more damage reduction so it's objectively better in that instance. You have to specifically get the Armor of Agility in act 3 before you're outclassing the passives on the adamantine splint mail or the dwarven splint.
@DwarvesAndDice@@Chonusi lean toward dex-heavy build for my party so they have to compete for good medium or light armor so having one can use heavy armor early for me quite nice. in act2 there is an armor piece that can add fun dex to AC but only one. one another reason is i can use heavy crossbow(u get 3 martial crossbow/longbow in early act2), they do so much damage than regular one and not just chest piece. heavy prof just basically allows you to wear any good helm or gauntlet you come across
@@Chonus fair enough, only thing is who to put the armour on when its so strong, I’d almost rather it on someone who isnt backlining
@@trungngo9169 yeh thats fair, its good its saving you a medium armour in that case
What is ASI assasin?
Ability Score Improvement, it's the feat to compare the sharpshooter against. I explained it around 1:04
@@DwarvesAndDice Oh ok thanks
This translates 1:1 to GWM All-In right?
Some but not all is 1:1
The extra attacks from GWM (killing & critting) also need to be factored in which raises GWM above by a little bit
But the -25% to hit and AC calculations will be pretty similar, yeh
@@DwarvesAndDice good to know, ty. Are you planning to do a similar video with GWM and the builds that take it? I mean I usually take it for the crits first and foremost but it would be nice to know exact numbers on the effectiveness of All-In.
@@tanktope5453 Yep I'm planning on doing something very similar to this with GWM, I just need to find a way to taken into account the extra attack on kill, once I do that it'll be basically ready. Of course taking into account the crit isn't too bad, just the kills really
@@DwarvesAndDice Looking forward to it!
@@tanktope5453 Thank you! I hope the wait is shorter than between the last 2 videos!
yes it is very good, no need to watch the video
Well it looks like you never watched the video 🤔
thank you
You're very welcome!
I think Sharpshooter is S tier and Great weapon master is trash(unless its a Barbarian). Prove me wrong.
Do you want a video to compare them?
That would be nice. My thinking is, ranged damage is more valueable than melee. getting ranged attacks to hit is easier than melee. But what do I know?@@DwarvesAndDice
@@matthawkins123 Although I think you're right about the ranged attacks being easier to hit, I think the extra attacks from GWM is very very powerful, especially when using certain builds... that being said the ranged might sitll come out in front, who knows until the calculations have been done 🤔
I have so many instances where my melee character cant reach the target, so he does zero damage on the first turn. But the ranged character can pretty always attack and his attacks are more likely to hit. So by the time the melee character reaches the target, the ranged character has already shot twice ( and probably killed the target). i always give my primary melee character the boots of speed to overcome this problem.@@DwarvesAndDice
@@matthawkins123 Yeh that's a very good point, I think it happens quite often too...
I'm not sure if it's worth taking that into account in my videos but I think it does make quite a big difference over the course of the game, a very good point raised tho