I've read your comments and it looks like I've made some mistakes trying to reuse parts from the old video. I will happily recalculate everything and amend in this pinned commented but I'm reluctant to keep remaking remakes, I feel like you deserve other videos than just crits... that being said if you really want me to remake it I will. Leave a comment if you think I the video fixing the mistakes / adding in anything people have brought up as additionals. I'm happy to discuss anything, let me know what you think! As always thanks for watching and have a wonderful day!
Oh... we should probably recommend Killer's Sweetheart ring. It doesn't increase your critical hit percentage... but it does guarantee critical hit after each kill. Guaranteed repetition...
Reading the description. Is it the stored critical that refreshes after a long rest. Meaning you need to kill once to get it going. Or is it the ability to use it that refreshes after a long rest.
good discussion. a couple of inputs from me: 1. IMO crit fishing is an inefficient strategy on any build that doesnt attack alot. most builds are just better off auto-critting like using assasinate, hold, GOWs, etc. 2. increasing crit dmg via crit specific dmg dice like brutal critical is inefficient as well. going for dmg dice that just works in general (works when you crit or dont crit) simply adds more. 3. i liked the mathematically accurate representation of savage attacker. 4. you will actually increase your chance for crits better with bloodlust (assuming not honor mode) over viciousness. depending on the build, colossus elixir may lead to more total dmg than viciousness. 5. you miss a couple of small dmg boosts in the builds/computations like fighting styles but it's fine. BONUS; i'll share in a separate comment the latest build i finished workshopping that also works with crits (auto-crits though).
Thank you very much, your comments are appreciated as always! 1. Yeh I'm starting to think the 3 levels into rogue are kinda mandatory for most builds... unfortunate as it's so meta but it's kinda too strong... 2. Yeh that's very true, I know it will become *slightly* better when taking into account hit chance but as you've mentioned before, getting 95% hit chance is pretty common, especially as you get geared, I really wish it was more competitive tho, it would feel SO good if it was! 3. Thank you, I will try make more comparisons like that! 4. Yeh that's fair, I was just trying to max the crit, I suppose it should have been a section similar to SA vs GWM, showing that you'd think it'd be more useful but it actually isn't... 5. Where do you think I missed damage with the fighting styles? If you mean GWF I did take it into account, as well as 2 weapon fighting style Ahh please do!! I love seeing your builds!
@@DwarvesAndDice your welcome! The build is posted in another comment in this vid. Its my shadowblade monk. On to the responses: 1. yup though its not only that. If not honor mode, bladelock + extra attack is better. theres also factoring in burst attacks like with action surge and dread ambusher or attacking multiple targets like with slashing flourish, hordebreaker and tigers bloodlust. 2. it would be more competitive if they increased the dmg dice. For example, i'd be more interested in brutal critical if we actually got at least quadruple the base dmg dice instead of adding one more. Its a L9 ability. The power levels should be better or comparable to a caster L5 spell. brutal critical is a whimper compared to something like cone of cold. This is why no one takes barb past L5-6. 5. yeah i meant GWFS. i couldve just missed it, my bad.
@@TheRobversion1 Yet again, TH-cam aren't sending me your comments... it's so weird when it does and doesn't send it... 1. do you have a good way of approximating aoe/multitarget things? 2. Yeh it's kind of sad multiclassing is the only way to really increase damage, I really though high level classes would have been the right way to do things but it's just not... 5. Yeh at 5:35 I mention it, I didn't go into detail to speed it up. It's not as useful because of the Savage Attacker BUT it isn't bad, and no point not taking it tbf
@@DwarvesAndDice yeah. were you able to see the shadow blade build? if yes, what did you think? its simple by my standards but i think that spell/weapon is cool. 1. if comparing aoe and multi-target skills to each other, i just assume 2 targets are hit. if comparing single-target stuff to aoe/multi-target stuff, i assume the aoe/multi-target stuff just hits 1 target which of course paints them in a bad light. 2. yeah mutlticlassing is always the optimal route, especially for martials. casters can go higher but they will end up multiclassing as well after level 9-10 in most builds. there's usually no point in going L11-12 on casters because L6 spells arent sustainable (you only get 1/day without specific gear) and some of them are even meh/weak cmopared to upcasting lower options. not alot of good L11 abilities and L12 just gives you a feat with no abilities or caster progression.
@@TheRobversion1 I found it after some searching, forgot to send reply but it's replied on the comment :) 1. Cheers for some direction! A lot of comments about hoard breaker and volley but I wasn't really sure how to deal with it...
God I love this kind of content. My biggest issue w crit builds is that overkill is rarely considered. There's something to be said for the standard deviation in effective hp removed and action economy gained from Battlemaster's consistent d8's or d10's, or gloomstalker's R1 nova. Thanks for doing the math!
When I was originally coming up with this, I was playing around with Battlemater in game, I couldn't figure out if the extra damage crit or not, I looked around on wiki too but couldn't find anything. This was about 1-2 months ago so maybe someone has updated the wiki since? I did really want to use it, although I'm not a fan of limited use things, like spell slots or the Gloomstlker 1 time per turn but it seems like a lot of other commenters really like it so I think I'm gonna do the maths and figure out of these are worth it or not and make a little follow up in case they're effective! Yeh the overkill was something I considered in my original (VERY bad) video but not here sadly... There wasn't really a build that could stop overkill here, but there was in the other video. If you'd like in the little update video (if I make it) I could do a build to max crit but also minimise overkill? I have a couple of ideas Thank you very much, I'll be making more like this in the future, I LOVED making it! 😄
This is exactly why I prefer using dual hand-crossbows on something like a Sword Bard when in a party vs something like Titan String. The former is way more consistent and can pick off lower health enemies with your bonus action instead of just getting two (later three) attacks with a two-handed bow that can be massive overkill at times with one less attack leftover. Depends on the build of course. I'd always want to use a two-handed bow with something like a Gloomstalker/Assassin, grouped or solo if abusing the Elixir of Giant Strength. They aren't about sustain and are all about overkill, making sure those first few enemies are deader than dead before the fight actually begins. Gloomstaliker/Thief on the other hand would absolutely want to use the crossbows thanks to their bonus actions.
@@Neonmirrorblack Yeh I hate overkilling things, it feels really bad. I just uploaded a videi about Gloomstalker, if you're interesting in mathematically correct crits it's a good one to watch too. I want to make a Thief dual cross bows comparison with the other classes to see what the best multiclass is
You people don’t understand the raw sexual appeal of murdering the hell out of things. That’s okay, but optimal play was never the point of a crit build.
Of note if you wear Bhaalist armor targets are vulnerable to pierce so the max crit max chance build with bloodthirst and knife of the mountain king is even more absurd
The Bloodthrist already applies vulnerable, so it'd be better to wear other armour than the Bhaalist armour, unless it stacks but I'm pretty sure it doesn't
@DwarvesAndDice It's the benefit of Bloodthirst in main hand and it has to hit so it's a point of failure in the combo and you don't get it on the first hit so that's 10.4 more damage right there. You also get the advantaged retaliatory strike from using BT offhand for a potential additional reaction sneak attack crit and +1 AC What armor would be better you think?
@@DefaultProphet I completely forgot about swapping the BT to off hand, I think you're totally right! I had a quick look at the armours and nothing is really jumping out at me at being the best replacement, I think you're right with off hand + Bhaalist's. In all honesty the best might be to have a tank with Bhaalist's and then have your main have the KotUK main / BT off hand with another armour, but like I said I couldn't really see any that were REALLY good, so maybe just better keeping it simple and having it on the main Thanks for the suggestion!
Amazing video. Also good to hear the damage ridwr comment as it seems only some of the DRSs fot nerfed in aotch 5, but I can't seem to find a full list of them All of your math seems to match up on that front.
I wonder if there is even a list or what happened, I haven't had to the time to fully look into it but this should be a lot more accurate at the very least. Thank you very much 😄
Ahh do you mean like dual 1d8 weapons using dual wielder? I did that in one of the less accurate crit videos and it wasn't as great as I would have liked. In terms of honour mode, it nerfs in hit realllllly badly, otherwise if you wanted a tactician and below on hit one I could definitely look into it, but I know a lot of people are focussed on honour mode right now
@@DwarvesAndDice for me the game is all about playing with friends and the "flavor" of created characters far more than min/max. So, things like this are empirically interesting only in my case. I feel that is part of the genius of the game - one can play it either way and both yield a top notch experience of that type.
@@klstay Oh I completely agree about the game being amazing for you being able to do what you want and how you want it, of course as you can see I love all thing min/max but I also love making more thematic builds etc
Thanks for breaking it all down, i've been trying to wrap my head around it all and this helped ALOT! Would you be willing to put together a crit build that revolves around Eldritch Blast? I'm a big warlock geek but still can't seem to get it to crit as often as i think it should... thoughts? Also, gained a new sub from this guy!! keep up the great work!
I'm really glad it helped! Yeh I could have a look into Warlock and see what I can do. I'm not as well versed in spell casters yet (hence the focus on melee) but I'm sure I could come up with something effective (perharps not the best) I also love warlock, one of the coolest classes without a doubt Thank you very much, I really appreciate it! 😄😄
So a couple of points/questions/clarifications. 1. I don't quite get the crit damage die examples that you showed and then later used at the 1:06 part. When you crit, the damage die is doubled. With the half orc passive or barbarian level 9, an extra one weapon die is added each time you crit (to my knowledge). So I don't get how you're getting the 1d8 weapon on a crit is dealing 41 damage. A 1d8 weapon on crit should be doing 2d8 normally, and then 3d8 with half orcs and 4d8 if you are a level 9 barb + 5 ability mod gets you a maximum of 37 damage (not counting any riders). Is that not how it works? Similarly with the greatsword example. A normal 2d6 greatsword would do 4d6 on a normal crit, 5d6 with savage attacks and 6d6 with brutal critical + 5 ability mod for a maximum of 41 damage. If the way I've described it is how it works, then the *4 and *6 multipliers you have for crits are incorrect when going over the numbers breakdown for the different builds, espescially when using greatswords. So for example, the 9.55 average on a greatsword in your first build would be multiplied by 2.5 and not 4 (2 because you're criting + 0.5 from savage attacks because you only get an extra d6 from it and not 2d6, and then in the examples where the multiplier is 6, it should be 3). 2. In the damage breakdown section for the first build, your DRS total has you using 1d8 for divine smites with an average damage of 5.81 with savage attacks, when it should be atleast double that for a first level divine smite, and probably more. 3. Good breakdown on DRS and Damage Riders and their interaction, but this discussion misses out on discussing the best 2H weapon for DRS damage. This weapon is the Bloodied Greataxe. Greataxe's get a special ability called prepare, which allows them to deal extra flat damage = str modifier. This damage is a DRS and will proc your riders a second time. Additionally, the Bloodied Greataxe does an extra d4 of damage when the user is under 50% health. This extra d4 is also a DRS. So if you setup with this, once per short rest, all of your attacks in the round will proc damage riders thrice by default. Using this on your first example, your number of procs jumps up from 5.32 to 12.52. 4. You should know that in honour mode, thankfully, basically all DRS interactions don't work. The only two that I've come across that still work in honour mode are the rat bat (which gets an extra piercing damage on attacks which still acts as a DRS) and the warlock 12th level eldtrich invication life drinker (extra necrotic damage = cha mod on weapon attacks which still acts as a DRS).
1. Huh now you point it out there's definitely something wrong here... I tried to adapt this section from the old video but I guess I failed. How I thought it worked is, you have 1d8, then if you have +2 you now have 3d8 then you crit dealing 6d8, which would only be 32 damage. I always work off of average damage, just for clarification, unless stated as max damage. For the 2d6 therefore: 2d6 + 2 more 1d6 = 4d6 = 8d6(crit) = 28 on average. I think the way it works is how I've stated it in this comment BUT you're right I've done it incorrectly in the damage breakdown (again due to poor adaptation from the old video where a 1d12 was used...) I think it should actually be a modifier of 3 to the 9.55 to the first 3 builds, where it's 9.55 * 2 * (1+0.5). A mod of 4 (2 * [1+0.5+0.5]) for build 4. Build 5 should be unaffected. If I'm wrong in assuming the additional damage also crits please let me know, this is quite a big difference in damage, but it will likely make the last build even more appealing 😂 2. You're totally right, it should have been 2d8, my bad! I misread it as 1d8, sorry. 3. I didn't want to mention the things like prepare because you can only use them once, personally I feel the extra damage isn't worth it, when trying to average over combats / days. It's also hard to take into account when you'll be below 50% hp but it is a fait point which adds quite a bit of damage each turn. Remember it'll only jump to 12.52 for that one turn, although how are you getting 12.52? I count, for that turn you'll get basic attack + 1d4 + prepare = 3 + the additional 1.72 from the other DRS (div smite + colossus slayer), therefore only 4.72? Then you still have 2.6 more attacks but that's not JUST the prepared turn, if that makes sense? Please elaborate, I'm very curios, I LOVE DRS / on hit kinds of things in games 4. Very interesting, I did mention DRSs not working (I think) but the fact they took out essentially ALL is quite interesting to me, I know they're strong and slightly unintuitive but a weird change for Honour mode but I don't blame them. Thank you so much for your help and paying a lot of attention to the video to spot mistakes, I really appreciate it and love that there are others out there that love damage calculations like me!
@@DwarvesAndDice 1. Yes, I noticed that you were using average damage, which is what led me to pause and start looking at the numbers closely, because I was doing napkin math to follow along and my maximum numbers were sometimes lower than the ones presented, so I was like either I don't understand something fundamental, or there's some error somewhere. The way I described brutal critical and the half orc passive working in my first point are how they've been used in every tabletop session I've been in since I started playing DnD. I will double check to make sure it's the same in game. But, yes, I don't think the extra crit die that they're adding are also doubled for the crits. To be fair, the way the half orc passive is written in game is straight up misleading. 3. For sure. It also feels a bit jarring to play if you have a very high max dpr but then struggle to kill things normally. I only mentioned it because I feel like this game incentivizes maximizing burst DPR as much as possible, since killing things in a nova round is the best form of crowd control. The 50% HP is actually fairly easy to manage on the initial rounds of combat, since you can always set it up using the illithid ability transfuse health. As to how I got 12.52 for the first example build you were showing, it's simply because prepare doesn't last for 1 attack, but for 1 turn, and the extra d4 damage is unconditional from a turn/round/action economy perspective. So every attack will proc your riders 3 times. At 3.6 attacks on average + colossus slayer + divine smite on crit you're getting a total number of procs = 3*3.6 + 1.72 = 12.52. On every other round when you don't have prepare, you'll still be getting 2*3.6 + 1.72 = 8.92 number of procs. 4. I'm honestly super relieved that they took them out for honour mode, there was no possible way that they could have left those in and had a worthwhile experience, since if you know what you're doing with DRS and DR mechanics, you can make builds that can when bursting for max damage do over 6000 damage in a turn. They'd have to make almost all bosses have multiple 1000s of HP for it to even try to make it a reasonable challenge for the knowledgeable DRS abusing folks out there (as was the case for many modded nightmare/ tactician+ difficulties). Like I've done a modded run where my lockadin could do 1400 damage/turn when abusing DRS/DR interactions, and so I had the bosses like Orin cranked up to have enough HP to survive that. I only hope that most of the DRS changes that are made in honor mode make their way to regular difficulties, because while they're a cool unintended effect likely because of some quirks in the game's code, they make any discussion of the tactics or gear selection completely meaningless when it comes to optimizing a build, since everyone resorts to using things which can stack as many damage riders onto as many drs as possible, and the game is meaninglessly trivial with those interactions. Meanwhile, for folks that do not know what's happening, they would be confused and maybe frustrated looking at the combat log trying to make sense of it all, since pre patch 5, it was extremely easy to end up with a build that was using DRS mechanics without trying to or knowing about it. If you want a deep dive into DRS mechanics specifically as they pertain to the regular difficulties of the game, I'd highly recommend reading through bg3.wiki/wiki/Damage_mechanics on the community wiki, and watching these great deep dives by Ethan: 1. th-cam.com/video/yQEQPrWLB8M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Cx7znwwHPuI-05pf 2. th-cam.com/video/J-4KUyANKPU/w-d-xo.html 3. th-cam.com/video/1UnaW-U7dU0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Rw9BeTtxEeIEo8nP
@@common_undead I love a bit of napkin maths 😂 Interesting, the way it's worded is VERY poor, are you certain they don't get doubled? Tbh it's kinda disappointing if they don't since that feels like the point in increasing crit damage... I don't overly like going from TTRPG to BG3 just because there are some discrepancies between them, so I just don't fully trust RAW for 5e etc going to BG3 fully, but I can understand that most are pretty similar. 3. Ahhhh that's one BIG thing I never consider is the Illithid powers, I've only just started getting them in my playthrough but I haven't had time to play in about a month (Been really busy so I'm only in ACT1! 😅😅) I'm assuming there are some pretty nutty powers to be used for builds, probably even this build but like I've said I know nothing about it. I seeee, that lasting 1 turn does make a nova round pretty effective tbf, that makes a lot of sense for the 12.52 now, thanks! Adding on just that 1d4 really increases those DR doesn't it! I do feel like I've done the crit builds an injustice with my videos then, given how inaccurate they are, what do you think I should do going forward? 4. Yeh that's a fair point, they are a bit too busted, I just LOVE on hit builds (thanks to league of legends...) Yeh I do agree it's not really fair for those who don't really know what's going on and BUSTED for those who do... I think it's best they removed it in Honour but I think they should leave it in normal for people to have an easier option when they want to. I've tried to stay away from other content creator's work, I wanted to create unique/authentic stuff rather than just doing what everyone else was doing, if you think the videos are really worth the watch tho I'll give them a go, and try my best not to just take their info. I've given that wiki page a GOOD FEW reads already, it does show the majority of things really well Again thanks so much for your effort! I do really appreciate it and value your input
I wonder if Great Weapons might be better. Because while your crit threshold will be 1 higher (assuming you have the master feat), you can also reroll attack rolls that land on 1 or 2.
What part is this in relation to? I did do the calculations for using GWM and GWF in this video too, since bigger dice crit even bigger than small ones
@@DwarvesAndDice I made a mistake. It’s not the GWM feat, it’s the fighting style. The threshold would be one higher due to swapping out the 2 weapons that decrease the threshold for just 1. I misremembered GWM as reducing the crit threshold for heavy weapons, that was a mixup.
@@purpledevilr7463 Ahh yeh the fighting style was taking into account, that's why it's 9.55 (with SA included too) This being said, it has since been calculated to be more than 9.55 on the wiki since the video was made, but not by much more As far as I know there's nothing that reduces crit threshold for great weapons specifically but there are of course a few that are general crit threshold reducers
@@DwarvesAndDice Cool. I can imagine something like that can be a pain to calculate (well at least for someone at my maths level). I just remember it being a thing somewhere in a paladin/warlock build video I saw once. I tried to find it but can’t. So it probably was a misremember.
@@purpledevilr7463 Ahh ok, not sure what it could have been The maths behind it wasn't too bad, if done Rules As Written, however, it is implemented in a really really strange way, where certain times it gets rerolled, and others it doesn't.... there was a really good reddit post that broke it down with some really lovely examples of how it counts everything, sadly it wasn't as straight forward as I thought, so it's like ~9.8 instead of 9.55 (just fyi 😄)
Deva mace best and offhand one of the crit swords or daggers My crit design is usually 4 levels of champion fighter, dual wielder, 6 levels college of swords bard, savage attacker, 2 levels of paladin vengeance The amount of smite slots is amazing, plus utility and can be party face:heavy armor high charisma, I used hag hair, everlasting vigor, and mirror of loss to have str at 22 Also use psychic damage rwhile concentrating ring, helldusk gloves, broodmother necklace, elemental weapon from drake glaive for additional damage sources
Oooo thats a different idea for the crit build than most others, I like it. The use of bard is interesting, is that just for flourish? How do you get the mace? From what Im reading someone has it equipped, I haven’t used the spell before so don’t know how that works
@@DwarvesAndDice bard bc you get extra attack at lvl 6, waaaaay more slots to smite with, plus several utility spells and yes flourishes which dice double on crit To obtain the mace, loot the donation chests below the god temple near basilisk gate, you will be cursed for doing so, cast remove curse and a hostile deva will appear, kill the deva, loot the mace, drop is random, the above process can be repeated by placing any item into the donation chest and removing again, to reduce randomness one can take the devas corpse back to camp and drop it, long rest, and the corpse should disappear and a pouch will be sitting in its place with mace in it
@@zcjonesy Aha that's quite a bit of work but BOI is that mace worth it, thanks a lot! Yeh that's pretty good for giving lots of spell slots, I like it very nice! Does that mean you could dual wield 2 maces??
@@DwarvesAndDice certainly could, I prefer to still lower the crit number by wielding undermountain king until I can get bloodthirst, but ya I’m sure there’s numbers to be run for dual wielding it as a thief rogue, but bonus action economy is more limited than base action, more ways to give you more actions (haste, action surge, elixir of bloodlust)-only helmet of grit and hat of pyro quickness give you more bonus actions
Also forgot one of the most important pieces of equipment, the risky ring! no need for 2 levels of barbarian for wreckless, you advantage all the time!
Savage Attacker only cares about melee weapon damage, so that doesn't make Half-Orc the best race unless they are actually playing a class that uses weapons in melee. While they're usually the best Smiters by far, and possibly some silly melee Rogue, the same can't be said for them being the best caster or much of anything else. They do get what is essentially a free Death Ward though, so there's that.
Yeh that's a fair point to raise, none of the other races are really that good tho, for melee certainly the best and ranged you are right there will be better, I just feel like their passive isn't even comparable to most of the other classes
@@DwarvesAndDice If you are playing on Honor Mode, there's an extremely strong argument for Halfling being the best race for basically anything but a dedicated smiter, but even then if they are going to be your face (10 Bard/2 Pal) they are still likely the best smiter in that mode too. It's critical hit extra damage vs having a chance about as low as winning the lottery to land a critical miss. If you don't like the way they look, Disguise-Self got your back. Those fortunate enough to have purchased the Deluxe Edition on PC at launch got a helm that gives infinite uses of it without any cooldown.
@@Neonmirrorblack You think Halflings are the best smiters for the 10 Bard / 2 Pal? Or am I misunderstanding? I did the maths for halflings and how much they increase damage in my original mathematically correct crits (it wasn't a very good video but that section highlights the differences and how useless they actually are) Aww that's quite a cool helmet, I never knew they gave that out with the deluxe edition
@@DwarvesAndDice I believe a Halfling with the 10/2 SSB is at the very least extremely competitive with the Half-Orc just for smiting. Where they pull ahead is at everything else, especially if you want to use them as your face or even face + lockpicker/pickpocket. Strictly talking about Honor Mode here. I saw your math video, but while it might be correct on a technical level, it's more of a spreadsheet and doesn't actually account for the situation. Your calculations seem to really only care about over time properties and not awful Critical Miss streaks which can, and do happen. Avoiding those streaks is what makes the Halfling so good.
@@Neonmirrorblack They are definitely useful characters e.g. I use the halfling hireling as my potion crafter in camp Are you running Karmic dice? I mean sometimes it's just the way the dice roll, although they do technically help with it, any time you have advantage it's just a waste of a race but I do understand where you're coming from. I do think they are the top 2 races
You're talking about crits and crit builds but you haven't mentioned the dolor amerus weapons. I'm guessing you haven't tested them yet since it falsely says "when this weapon crits" in the tooltip but the extra damage on crit from those weapons are added to the calculations from all weapons used. They are not extra damage dice like other bonuses in the game but are actual extra damage. 7 damage for each weapon (2x dolor amerus daggers, 1x vicious shortbow) so that's 21 flat damage boost to your normal damage, sneak attack damage AND the craterfish gloves bonus damage if you're wearing them. The damage becomes RIDICILOUS if you crit, almost one shotting any endgame trash enemy. The downside is that you cannot really stack crit chance with this build because the weapon slots are taken so you lose on those but if you can master the art of surprising the enemy then I believe this is the ultimate build.
Ahhh I haven't actually seen these weapons, they seem very interesting! Mixing that with the Baahlist armour might be really spicy! I think there's defo a really OP build there somewhere but it has a few things needing sorted out, I'm assuming assassin would be the way to go but then you miss out on the extra bonus action attack from thief. I also think there's room to move with the crit chance being lowered, it's not great but on the whole I think you could still be critting enough especially with advantage. I think having the 3 guaranteed crits with assassin with Bhaalist's would be great tho, for the 3 attacks in crit round: 72 dmg (weapon) 42 dmg (dolor) Sneak attack depends on # of levels into it but it could be about 28 dmg 21 force (gloves) 135 total (rough maths) on that first nova round of assassin
You are correct in that the extra 21dmg from dolor weps do indeed also gets doubled from the vulnerability. You are also correct that these weapons can only really be utilised by an assassin build. Thief extra bonus is really just redundant and not required in this case. Besides you need two weapon fighting to make use of your off hand attacks. Bhaalist armor definitely helps but doesn't help you at all if you're aiming for a ranged build. If you're going for a melee crit build than you are better of swapping out one of the dolor daggers for the crimson mischief in your mainhand which adds further damage if you attack with advantage. I tested it, for melee crimson is better in main hand, for ranged you're better off with 3x dolor weapons.@@DwarvesAndDice
@@tetefather baahlist's can help a ranged if you get someone in the frontline to wear it while you shoot from afar. Ahhh yeh the Chrimson Mischief does look like a better option on the whole tbh (melee) having that with the Baalists has to be really good, since the
@@DwarvesAndDice I hit for 256dmg total today while testing this build, in one main hand hit! And I'm not joking. It was the last hit to the brain in the last ever fight and had to just skip thru all the cut scenes until the epilogue just to go through all the dmg meter data lol
Ohhh wow now that's a lot of dmg! That's definitely one thing I don't take into account much is the possible HIGHS you can get with builds, I always think of averages but I can only imagine it feels SO good when you roll good @@tetefather
This is really great. Have you considered what kind of crit build you could do if you didn't have to worry about the crit chance? I've been running a control bard using hold person, and it's incredibly strong. But, I'm wondering how far you could push your crits if all you cared about was the crit damage.
I'm pretty sure I'd be maxing all the DRS I could, I don't have a build in mind for it but it would be really cool, will have a think about it and see what I can do. I don't really like spells/things that are SR/LR gated, since you can't apply that very many times, the inconsistency is a pain for the maths too I'm sure you've seen some of the comments about it not being 100% right, I'll likely make a follow up video about it just to tidy everything up, sorry about that
@@DwarvesAndDice Yeah, spells can be really limited. The good thing about hold person is that it's only a level 2 spell, so you can stretch it a long way and upcasting it gets you an additional person per spell level. So, you can stretch you spell slots a long way. There aren't a lot of Spell DC increasing items in Act 1 though, so it can be less reliable early on. By act 3 it can be practically guaranteed to land though. Another option I tested with it was using Shocking Grasp. It benefits from the auto crit, and you can combine it for wet to apply vulnerable. I was getting over 100 lightning damage per attack.
@@corranhorn85 I do like the upcasting, that would stretch it quite a bit further. The vulnerability on lightning/cold spells makes them so busted..... honestly anything with vulnerability is busted
I've been trying to make a crit build using spell Sniper. It works great with shocking grasp, but doesn't have an effect on Way of the Elements Ki spells ☹️
@@DwarvesAndDice I saw an interesting build recently that was an GOO warlock that just wanted to inflict fear on all enemies at all time. It can be good for some Illithid RP.
@@purpledevilr7463 Ahhh yeh I was planning on min maxing a build for that, as much crit as possible and just see how much crowd control I can get out of it, I think it would be really fun and like you said great for RP!
@@DwarvesAndDice if you do, warlock-rogue-fighter would be the way to go. It gets you that ability to disengage/hide to retrigger the shadeslayer cloak, and the expertise of Rogue can be quite nice for RP too by putting it in Arcana.
@@purpledevilr7463 Yeh that sounds about the way I'd go about it, at least my first combo to test, I would definitely be taking assassin for those guaranteed crits too, then you are definitely going to fear some enemies straight away at the start of combat which would be very nice, and since Eldritch Blast can target so many at once (plus action surge) I think it would be really fun and pretty cool
I went thief7/champion5 with bhaalist armor. The piercing vulnerability led to disgusting damage when critting. 4 attacks per turn plus big sneak attack damage made everything just melt
@@DwarvesAndDice Orin's daggers. Had risky ring to always have advantage. I used astarion for this cause my main was a sorc but even without the half orc boost I managed to deal over 200 damage per turn regularly
@SSSmokeStyle damn thats crazy damage, makes sense just using astarion, I dont even think theres a hireling thats half orc but I haven’t checked in ages
@@SSSmokeStyle Another way to use the Bhaalist armor is to take the sharpshooter and crossbow expert feats, dual wield hand crossbows, and attack with the crossbows in melee range.
You should check a Champion 3 pala 5 sorcerer 4 with unseen menace melee (crit on 19+always* advantage) deadshot bow sarevok helmet and elixir of viciousness.crit on a 15 with advantage. Plus half orc as race and i think level 4 smite amounts for biggest damage. Tho bloodthirst + kotuk with bhaalist armour still deals more damage but i it feels anticlimatic to deal so much damage with 2 tiny knifes
Yeh I could look into that, if its really effective I might make it into its own little video too! I completely understand the underwhelming feeling with the daggers, I’m thinking you could replace Bloodthirst with a rapier and the piercing vulnerability armour, or maybe double rapier (Im assuming KotUK is too strong to drop too) My only problem with it is the spell slots, it feels kind bad if you don’t have the slots when you need them, but maybe thats just a me problem… I’ll need to look into sorcerer more, I’ve seen it mentioned before but I didnt think it would be that useful for a melee build but I guess i might be wrong
@@DwarvesAndDiceyeah. Sorcerer just gives you more spell slots. And as a crit fishing paladin i prefer to reserve all spell slots for crit smites for max efficiency. Shars spear dual wielded with kotuk would also be quite nice and kinda thematic. But youd have to take savage attacker and dual wielder as feats
Thanks for the video! Numbers are fun. Im wondering if you run the numbers but remove crit elixer and use Str 27 potion or bloodlust potion instead. If not in honor mode the later would do more dmg, but im curious about the numbers for honor mode.
You're very welcome! I enjoyed making it and calculating it. I'll give it a go and see what I come out with, if it's effective I might throw it in a little follow up video, along with some other comment's suggestions! I haven't used the Str 27 potion, do you know if it's easy to attain?
@@DwarvesAndDice easy to obtain? If you can find a trader who sells its, or sells the components, you can buy off them every long rest and every time a party member levels up.
@@lostsoulman Yeh I know some potions/elixirs are harder to get, I haven't seen it before (at least don't remember) but that sounds like it's easy enough so worth having a look at
@@DwarvesAndDiceYou can get the 27 str elixir in act1 once you're level 6 I think, by buying the fingers in the myconid colony. So if you're willing to reset the vendors a bunch then you can get as many as you need for the game. The elixirs are readily available (if you're willing to farm vendors) in act3, but I didn't see much at all in act2. I held off using them till near the end of act2, using the 21str elixirs (I bought a huge supply off of Ethel in act1.)
@@CodeKujo got you makes sense to stack up on some for act 2 then since they’re less common there. I haven’t yet gotten to the myconid colony, i stopped just as I reached the under dark
Have been doing alot of in game testing with crits. Mostly on ranger/fighter/rogue combo Assasin+gloomstalker+champion gives a load of dmg for sure Bard is also cool if u are ranged the split shot ability goes hard
Ahh yeh I did think about making a build around Assasin+gloomstalker+champion, it seemed like a really cool thematic build. I do know a lot of people run the bard for the flourish, someone said it might be THE best build in the game but I haven't looked into it yet
@@DwarvesAndDice got me thinking on some builds for real, the risky ring could be a cool option tbh. Just make sure to get 1st go in a round and then drop it after. with the high crit builds it could do alot of dmg(the ones that dont run assasin) for advantage.
I've been trying to figure out how you got to these numbers, and i only did the barbarian/champion so far, because i knew it couldn't be right, and here's what i got. 9 berserker, 3 champion Half orc Great weapon fighting style Great weapon master 1 asi hags hair and abuse Astarion for 22 strength Greataxe +2, 1d12, 7.33 average with fighting style (standard one for this math, pretty easy to buy, there's also one that gives spells and one that adds fire damage, but they are harder to get) Elixir+helmet+champion+dead shot+ enraging heart garb 21 AC for shits and giggles .36 to crit, .48 to hit .16 to miss Opening round, rage, reckless attack, attack surge attack 2 more times 1d12+6 strength +2 for weapon +10 for gwm +2 for rage +2 for rath .36(7.33×4+22)+.48(7.33+22) 32.5536 for 4 attacks 130.2144 total damage first round With standard greatsword, 20 strength, just rage, no wrath .36 to crit, can't hit without crit .36×(4.16×6+10+5+2+2) 15.8256 4 times for 63.3024 As you did it with Greatsword, but using Balduran's Giantslayer with giant form 21.49 damage(2d6+3+1d6+⁶ with fighting style) .36(4.16×10+29)+.48(4.16×3+29) 45.3264 4 times 181.3056 Ok one more, same build 22 strength/dualing fighting style, Savage Attacker, Dualists Prerogative 1d8 +3 weapon +6 strength +2 dualing fighting style +2 rath +2 rage +4 withering cut .4375 to crit .44 to hit .1225 to miss .4375(5.8125×4+19)+.44(5.8125+19) 29.401875 4 times for 117.6075
Wow thanks for taking the time to calculate all this out! I want to point out that I didn't include things like hags hair therefore I will have lower numbers anyways. I also took Savage attacks on it too which I don't think I see you accounting for, until the las one I guess You're doing the crit dmg wrong, the things like +2 from rage, GWM +10 and from weapons don't crit, they should be taken into account separate with total hit chance = crit chance + normal hit chance. You also don't have the 2x (for the fact your crit) but I'm assuming when you did the calculation you did actually make the damage crit? I was keeping things as item agnostic as possible, at least when this was released. Unless the build specifically called for an item, so an enchanted +2 weapon will increase your numbers a bit. tbf going forward I think enchantments are common enough I'll likely include them readily, but as for specific weapons, I likely won't be doing that any time soon. I didn't actually take into account GWM +10 dmg for -25% to hit, I only used it for the extra attack rolls. Back when I made this I also wasn't consistent with my number of SR/LR & combats, otherwise I would have taken into account the action surge too, so that is missing. I also wasn't consistent with the AC of the enemy back then, so that's something that's changed since. I was also running Berserker, why are you running beast heart? Do you think you get more damage out of it overall? I quite liked the berserker for the guaranteed use of the bonus action if GWM didn't pro It's also important to look at the sustained damage and not just the burst round damage, which you looked at with all using AS I know the video was not by any means perfect, I know there are plenty of mistakes (sadly) Let me know what you think and if you have any further comments or questions! Edit: Also did you take into account the extra crit dice?
@@DwarvesAndDice I do my equations to show everything. Here's an example .4375(5.8125×4+19)+.44(5.8125+19) Chance to crit × (average damage roll × number of dice + add-ons)+chance to hit × (average damage roll × number of dice+add-ons) That way it's all spelled out in one problem. Savage Attacks is the half orc ability of adding one extra crit die, Savage Attacker is the advantage on damage rolls thing, which I used the appropriate average roll in the calculation to account for. If I take GWM, I generally don't mess about with berserker, because I hate missing and -1 stacking with -5 is a pain to account for in the math. These builds are mostly unable to take Savage attacker and great weapon master because they are two feat builds, and feats are ALWAYS less valuable than taking an ASI until you hit 20.
@@DwarvesAndDice I didn't do bestial heart, but the bonus action is consumed by raging. You can't have both great weapon master and savage attacker without hags hair or elixir, unless you want 16 strength, but let's say we did savage attacker and 18 strength, with an off the shelf regular greataxe(although a greataxe is infinitely better than a 2d6 weapon with barbarian 9 or savage attacks[orc extra die]) .36 to crit, .28 to hit, .36 to miss 0.36×(4.47×6+4)+.28×(4.47×2+4) 14.7184 per attack, 4 attacks with surge, but no bonus action attack because it was consumed by raging 58.8736 total first round. Second round does 44.1552, 3rd round hit chance decreases to 0.2175, due to strain so 13.90965×3 for 41.72895. 4th round is 13.0362×3 for 39.1086. either way a non-enchanted greataxe would be 8.49×4=33.96 rather than 4.47×6=26.82
@@DwarvesAndDice one more response, I did it wrong. I forgot that savage attacker stacks with great weapon fighting style, so that means a d6 averages to 4.66 and a d12 averages to 8.53.
@@singincowboy You're including the add-ons in the crit section but most of them don't crit so that boosts your damage a bit higher I don't think feats are always less valuable than ASI always, there are definitely cases where ASI is less impactful, although it is generally strong of course
So in terms of the last build with barbarian and rogue i understand taking KotUK in your offhand as opposed to using it in the main hand because of the Bloodthirst passive, but what about Two-Weapon Fighting? The wiki states that dual wielder does not give you two weapon fighting so im not sure why you have to take it to begin with since both KotUK and Bloodthirst are already considered light weapons. So is the damage listed in the final Barbarian(9) and Rogue (3) taking into account that you dont apply your damage modifier to your off hand or are you applying your damage modifier to the offhand with something else? I would also like to add that I agree to making another update video just to make it perfect, because this content is great but it would be cool if a final draft of the video was made with all the polishing after making all the necessary corrections and updating information with the correct stuff just to make it less confusing.
Thanks for your input about the final video! Yeh you’re totally right about the 2 weapon fighting, it should be that and not Dual Wielding for that build, mb. As a side note, there has been a comment about taking Dual Wielder and getting 2 Diva Maces, then run an armour that gives enemies vulnerability to piercing, this might be the best but I haven’t run the numbers
I might look into the deva mace thing but I think it deals bludgeoning and radiant damage only so I'm not sure what the piercing vulnerability armor is for. I was honestly just excited to finally see someone making videos on build optimization for crits. With this I feel like you've already done loads for the min maxing side of the bg3 community since I personally haven't found any videos like this with so much in depth explanation. It's probably gonna be really hard to not miss something even in the final video because there are so many game mechanics that need to be taken into account when theory crafting for the different kinds of builds you provided so some mistakes here and there might be unavoidable. Maybe you could turn this into some sort of revision series on your channel with future updates to crit builds if more information is discovered or just quick updates for future patches? Idk tho its a lot of work and it might be too much to ask so even if it is just one more video to clean up the concept you deserve a big thanks and you get my respect for all the hard work you put into making these regardless.👍
@@sussyballs-w2g Ahhh damn I read it as a morning star (for some unknown reason...) It wouldn't work then... Thanks for the huge compliment! It really means a lot!! I love going in-depth, even if I'm wrong, then you guys in the comments always notice one thing or come up with another idea, I LOVE IT! Of course I will try get everything I can but like you said, it's really hard to take EVERYTHING into account. I would love to turn it into a revision series, I just hope you guys would enjoy watching the process (rather than just getting the be all end all, if that makes sense) I think it would be really cool to just keep iterating on it and see where the comments can take it, I might shorten them down, cut out some of the maths into it's own video, then go into each video just talking about the maths for each build until we can finally reach the best one, there are so many combinations I'm sure comments will always keep coming up with something so squeeze out just a little more damage each time, it also gives a good overview of all the kinds of builds out there, so I'm all for it!
I've been running the "bladesinger" subclass mod for honour mode. With unoptimized slots, but still good gear at Wiz lvl6, Fighter lvl4 ( infernal rapier, caustic band, callous glow ring, potent robe, necklace of elemental augmentation, helldusk gloves ), I get around 200 damage per turn with multiples booming blades or green flame blades, especially with Spirit Shroud active ( 5e spells mod ) that acts as a DRS. I've been trying adding "holy weapon" on top too lately, it helps, but it was a bit underwhelming, doesn't act as a DRS. Just saying this because non-crit oriented build can also be stupidly powerful, in fact, this bladesinger build is relatively weak, I saw a build in patch 3 or 4 dish out 6000 ( you read that right ) in 1 turn. Probably been nerfed in P5, but still OP AF. There are also other many more 1k+ dmg per turn builds out there, or were, if they've been nerfed.
I haven't tried any sort of modding yet, I was told it's a pain if you want to unmod after modding (to be able to play with friends, apparently) I wasn't including any spells in this one, trying to keep it simpler, when you start adding spells things can get kinda crazy but I will end up doing that down the line. How is the DRS working in honour mode? is that because it's modded? I will also be going for min/maxing normal builds too, I'm planning on making a full on hit DRS/DR build at some point which I'm looking forward to (I have a soft spot for on hit builds) Over 6000 dmg is INSANE! is that just modded builds or normal ones too? I've tried to stay away from looking at BG3 builds to keep mine my own, if that makes sense
@@DwarvesAndDice I've been looking, but not copying. Would make the game way too easy ( unless you use mods that increase difficulty, then it's fair game, act 1 enemies with 200 HP and 26 AC that have minions, ghouls, the crielta crags encounter to be precise, that cast hold person and can basically wipe out your party in 1 turn ). So I try to come up with my own stuff. DRS sometimes work, I know it works with Spirit Shroud for example, don't know if it's because it comes from the 5e spells mod or not, but watching other people play unmodded Bg5 P5, I can see some other DRS still working, BG3 hasn't nerfed all of them. As for modding, if you bought the game from GoG and use the BG3 mod manager, it's not really an issue. You do 2 installs, you keep one copy unmodded for online play ( the GoG launcher one ) in a different folder than the one set in preferences in BG3 Mod manager ( that you install manually elsewhere after having downloaded the full install files ). You launch the modded copy from the BG3 Mod manager and the online one from windows explorer or GoG launcher, works for me.
@@seamon9732 Wow the modding community have added some good stuff, I still haven't looked into any mods yet, I'm on steam. That's really strange, I wonder why they're picking and choosing what to keep and what not to 🤔
Yeh it does but I left out all the "when hiding" kind of things as they're less consistent that the ones mentioned, which are guaranteed. You can always take it on top of everything else but at that point the gain isn't actually that much (because advantage skews rolls upwards), there therefore might be better options than to just reduce another 1 on the crit, but I haven't looked at all the equipment pieces
@@DwarvesAndDice ...I'm guess I'm trying to plan a multiclass stealth archer. The Dead Shot bow makes me want to stealth sneak attack. Especially with pass without trace and extended greater invisibility. I'm trying to plan Shadowheart as a cleric / sorcerer for all the necessary buffs.
@@BosskV2 Aha, then yeh if you max out all the stealth crits you can actually get down to about 13, you can also replace the Sarevok's helmet with Dark Justiciar helmet or covert cowl as I think they're easier to get but only work with stealthy/obscured builds
You know that's a very fair point 😅 I left it in after the original videos but you're totally right, you don't really need it... that being said I'm now looking at some comments that might suggest taking Dual Wielder and running the armour that makes enemies vulnerable to piercing, then you can dual wield rapiers or get the diva mace as main and off hands but you're totally right!
@@DwarvesAndDice Thank you for the clarification, I was confused myself. So in the case of dual wielding two light finesse weapons,is it better to take asi as the first feat or savage attacker?
@@wally8619 Savage attacker is as follows: Weapon deals 1d4 damage: average bonus damage is 0.625 Weapon deals 1d6 damage: average bonus damage is 0.972 Weapon deals 1d8 damage: average bonus damage is 1.3125 ASI gives +1 damage per attack (and additional chance to hit) So assuming a 1d4 or 1d6 go ASI first If going Dual Wielder with 1d8's then go Savage Attacker first (note this is base weapons, if going with DRS then I think savage attacks will be better and if going with KotUK, because it rerolls on 1 or 2, the savage attacks is better first, by about 0.2 dmg per attack)
@@DwarvesAndDice Savage attacker rerolls all dice not just base weapon dice. Any amount of extra dice will invariably outstrip an asi, including dipping in fire. This is especially true for crits (which double all dice) and for half-orcs (they add a base damage die on melee crits for each damage source, eg a 1st level half-orc rogue sneak attack critting with a shortsword deals 3d6+3d6 (1d6 doubled +1 die for base weapon and 1d6 sneak doubled +1 die)). A Phalar aluve proc on a crit would become 3d4 + other bonuses for each base damage source (sneak attack, smites, base weapon damage) on a half-orc in melee).
@@johnparker8648 I had a look on the wiki and savage attacks (half-orcs) does not apply on sneak attack. It is ONLY on weapon and certain other things, like divine smite, I can't find a definitive list tho... The savage attacks (adv on dmg dice feat) does not apply on sneak attack, it does seem to apply on other things, idk why sneak attacks are weird. It doesn't say anything about fire etc. The half-orc passive is also only going to be 4d6, it doesn't crit the additional dice sadly. So it's 1d6 weapon + 1d6 crit + 1d6 savage attacker + 1d6 sneak attack + 1d6 sneak attack crit
Great weapon fighting is less impactful when using savage attacks (due to advantage rolling higher on average so less 1/2 to reroll) The damage increase (2d6 with savage + GWF) is 7 -> 9.55 (GWF = +0.6, savage attacks giving the +1.95) without the savage attacks its 7 -> 8.333 (+1.333) So its up to you, per turn from GWF you’re defo getting some increased damage but with savage attacks it might be better going a bit tankier I hope that helps answer your question ☺️
@@DwarvesAndDice i appreciate that and the whole video. Not a min maxer and just finished my first honor run starting second. I love the arcane acuity sword bard to hold everything so trying to get a cri build going. I used to use a 2pal 10 bard for banish smite burst, dmg is ok but utility is not. So 9barb 3thief sounds a lot more mobile. Thanks again for your work!
@@fanfan9748 No problem at all, I'm glad you found it helpful! The Barb/Thief is my favourite so far but I'm sure some other commenters will end up suggesting some really spicy combinations
so if the class ability and race ability for crit damage increase are to merely add +1 dice, why are we using a greatsword here? wouldn't a greataxe be a better option? doesn't 4d12 do more damage on average than 6d6? 26 v 21. an argument can be made about how with great weapon master allowing you to reroll 1s and 2s, this would be modified, but then the fact that more dice trend towards the median would need to be considered as well. whatever, I am sure even those thoughts wouldn't make up for the fact that those two daggers seem to just vastly outperform.
That's what I thought at first too, turns out with GWF rerolling it's MUCH more effective when rerolling on the 2/6 than the 2/12, it ends up outweighing 1d12 quite a bit (if memory serves) I think 1d12 only JUST outperforms when at +2 crit dice but I can't remember exactly, but yeh, the daggers are a bit too op 😂 On top of that the savage attacks actually works better with the 2d6 than the 1d12 (with rerolls included) the damage was about 0.88 per attack (in favour of 2d6)
Really interesting and awesome video. For the 9 barb 3 champion the best weapon is greataxe though, specifically the hellfire greataxe due to the additional d6 fire damage. This would edge out the slight increase you get from gwf style on a 2d6 weapon. Also, for the last section, did you take into account that the 9 barb/3 thief would not have access to two weapon fighting style, and so would lose ability bonus to offhand weapon? Could get that fighting style with gloves, but then you lose out on 1d6 damage from helldusk gloves (which would be doubled on crit). Or is that offset by the sneak attack once per round?
Thank you very much! Ahhh I didn't really consider specific weapons like that, I guess I'll have to have a look into hellfire greataxe. Yeh I did, you're right, well spotted! I would say that having the fighting style gloves will be better at lower crit chance and worse with higher, I haven't done the maths for that, just off the top of my head 😊(that would change in Honour mode, as DRS are not counted as DRS but instead DR)
The way I understand it, regardless of DR Vs DRS, if it's a dice rather than a flat bonus (helldusk gloves Vs the 2 acid damage ring for example) it will get doubled on a crit. For max crit damage you'd want hellfire greataxe, the shadow ring, and helldusk gloves. That would give 4d12 + 2d6 (axe) + 2d6 (helldusk gloves) + 2d4 (shadow ring), so 10 - 80, all rolled with advantage from savage attacker, before any other bonuses. All of which should still double in honour mode. Edit: forgot that the dice from brutal critical and half orc racial don't get rerolled by SA
With SA, that gear set up would give an average of about 46 per crit, before extras from strength, rage, weapon enchant etc. wouldn't outpace dual wielding, but best for 2h
@@jaxlewis85 I was under the impression only DRS were getting effected by crit, I could be wrong of course but I haven't seen anyone saying about DR getting crit. Therefore if it's like that it wouldn't get doubled if it was honour mode since DRS doesn't exist there Of course for normal mode (which is probably the majority of players?) it's great!
@@jaxlewis85 Yeh I still think it's important to look for the best for each kind of weapon, I know a lot of people wouldn't really wanna run a dual wield dagger for a crit build, I know I'd prefer using 2H'er so to have the best build for each weapon would be really nice, thanks for the tips!!
I've read your comments and it looks like I've made some mistakes
trying to reuse parts from the old video. I will happily recalculate everything and amend in this pinned commented but I'm reluctant to keep remaking remakes, I feel like you deserve other videos than just crits... that being said if you really want me to remake it I will. Leave a comment if you think I the video fixing the mistakes / adding in anything people have brought up as additionals.
I'm happy to discuss anything, let me know what you think!
As always thanks for watching and have a wonderful day!
Oh... we should probably recommend Killer's Sweetheart ring. It doesn't increase your critical hit percentage... but it does guarantee critical hit after each kill. Guaranteed repetition...
Looks really cool but it’s only once per long rest, of course unequipping is an option tho 🤔
Reading the description.
Is it the stored critical that refreshes after a long rest. Meaning you need to kill once to get it going.
Or is it the ability to use it that refreshes after a long rest.
@@purpledevilr7463ability to use it
good discussion. a couple of inputs from me:
1. IMO crit fishing is an inefficient strategy on any build that doesnt attack alot. most builds are just better off auto-critting like using assasinate, hold, GOWs, etc.
2. increasing crit dmg via crit specific dmg dice like brutal critical is inefficient as well. going for dmg dice that just works in general (works when you crit or dont crit) simply adds more.
3. i liked the mathematically accurate representation of savage attacker.
4. you will actually increase your chance for crits better with bloodlust (assuming not honor mode) over viciousness. depending on the build, colossus elixir may lead to more total dmg than viciousness.
5. you miss a couple of small dmg boosts in the builds/computations like fighting styles but it's fine.
BONUS; i'll share in a separate comment the latest build i finished workshopping that also works with crits (auto-crits though).
Thank you very much, your comments are appreciated as always!
1. Yeh I'm starting to think the 3 levels into rogue are kinda mandatory for most builds... unfortunate as it's so meta but it's kinda too strong...
2. Yeh that's very true, I know it will become *slightly* better when taking into account hit chance but as you've mentioned before, getting 95% hit chance is pretty common, especially as you get geared, I really wish it was more competitive tho, it would feel SO good if it was!
3. Thank you, I will try make more comparisons like that!
4. Yeh that's fair, I was just trying to max the crit, I suppose it should have been a section similar to SA vs GWM, showing that you'd think it'd be more useful but it actually isn't...
5. Where do you think I missed damage with the fighting styles? If you mean GWF I did take it into account, as well as 2 weapon fighting style
Ahh please do!! I love seeing your builds!
@@DwarvesAndDice your welcome! The build is posted in another comment in this vid. Its my shadowblade monk. On to the responses:
1. yup though its not only that. If not honor mode, bladelock + extra attack is better. theres also factoring in burst attacks like with action surge and dread ambusher or attacking multiple targets like with slashing flourish, hordebreaker and tigers bloodlust.
2. it would be more competitive if they increased the dmg dice. For example, i'd be more interested in brutal critical if we actually got at least quadruple the base dmg dice instead of adding one more. Its a L9 ability. The power levels should be better or comparable to a caster L5 spell. brutal critical is a whimper compared to something like cone of cold. This is why no one takes barb past L5-6.
5. yeah i meant GWFS. i couldve just missed it, my bad.
@@TheRobversion1 Yet again, TH-cam aren't sending me your comments... it's so weird when it does and doesn't send it...
1. do you have a good way of approximating aoe/multitarget things?
2. Yeh it's kind of sad multiclassing is the only way to really increase damage, I really though high level classes would have been the right way to do things but it's just not...
5. Yeh at 5:35 I mention it, I didn't go into detail to speed it up. It's not as useful because of the Savage Attacker BUT it isn't bad, and no point not taking it tbf
@@DwarvesAndDice yeah. were you able to see the shadow blade build? if yes, what did you think? its simple by my standards but i think that spell/weapon is cool.
1. if comparing aoe and multi-target skills to each other, i just assume 2 targets are hit. if comparing single-target stuff to aoe/multi-target stuff, i assume the aoe/multi-target stuff just hits 1 target which of course paints them in a bad light.
2. yeah mutlticlassing is always the optimal route, especially for martials. casters can go higher but they will end up multiclassing as well after level 9-10 in most builds. there's usually no point in going L11-12 on casters because L6 spells arent sustainable (you only get 1/day without specific gear) and some of them are even meh/weak cmopared to upcasting lower options. not alot of good L11 abilities and L12 just gives you a feat with no abilities or caster progression.
@@TheRobversion1 I found it after some searching, forgot to send reply but it's replied on the comment :)
1. Cheers for some direction! A lot of comments about hoard breaker and volley but I wasn't really sure how to deal with it...
God I love this kind of content.
My biggest issue w crit builds is that overkill is rarely considered. There's something to be said for the standard deviation in effective hp removed and action economy gained from Battlemaster's consistent d8's or d10's, or gloomstalker's R1 nova.
Thanks for doing the math!
When I was originally coming up with this, I was playing around with Battlemater in game, I couldn't figure out if the extra damage crit or not, I looked around on wiki too but couldn't find anything. This was about 1-2 months ago so maybe someone has updated the wiki since? I did really want to use it, although I'm not a fan of limited use things, like spell slots or the Gloomstlker 1 time per turn but it seems like a lot of other commenters really like it so I think I'm gonna do the maths and figure out of these are worth it or not and make a little follow up in case they're effective!
Yeh the overkill was something I considered in my original (VERY bad) video but not here sadly... There wasn't really a build that could stop overkill here, but there was in the other video. If you'd like in the little update video (if I make it) I could do a build to max crit but also minimise overkill? I have a couple of ideas
Thank you very much, I'll be making more like this in the future, I LOVED making it! 😄
This is exactly why I prefer using dual hand-crossbows on something like a Sword Bard when in a party vs something like Titan String. The former is way more consistent and can pick off lower health enemies with your bonus action instead of just getting two (later three) attacks with a two-handed bow that can be massive overkill at times with one less attack leftover.
Depends on the build of course. I'd always want to use a two-handed bow with something like a Gloomstalker/Assassin, grouped or solo if abusing the Elixir of Giant Strength. They aren't about sustain and are all about overkill, making sure those first few enemies are deader than dead before the fight actually begins. Gloomstaliker/Thief on the other hand would absolutely want to use the crossbows thanks to their bonus actions.
@@Neonmirrorblack Yeh I hate overkilling things, it feels really bad. I just uploaded a videi about Gloomstalker, if you're interesting in mathematically correct crits it's a good one to watch too.
I want to make a Thief dual cross bows comparison with the other classes to see what the best multiclass is
You people don’t understand the raw sexual appeal of murdering the hell out of things.
That’s okay, but optimal play was never the point of a crit build.
I was waiting for this! Great video!
No problem at all, sorry for the wait but it's here finally! Thank you very much!
Love it! I just listened to the entire previous video today while driving. Glad to see the updated version 🙏
Thank you so much, makes my day reading this! I'm really glad you were able to find this one although you had already watched the other one! 😄😄
Great video! Very informative
Thank you very much!
Of note if you wear Bhaalist armor targets are vulnerable to pierce so the max crit max chance build with bloodthirst and knife of the mountain king is even more absurd
The Bloodthrist already applies vulnerable, so it'd be better to wear other armour than the Bhaalist armour, unless it stacks but I'm pretty sure it doesn't
@DwarvesAndDice
It's the benefit of Bloodthirst in main hand and it has to hit so it's a point of failure in the combo and you don't get it on the first hit so that's 10.4 more damage right there.
You also get the advantaged retaliatory strike from using BT offhand for a potential additional reaction sneak attack crit and +1 AC
What armor would be better you think?
@@DefaultProphet I completely forgot about swapping the BT to off hand, I think you're totally right! I had a quick look at the armours and nothing is really jumping out at me at being the best replacement, I think you're right with off hand + Bhaalist's.
In all honesty the best might be to have a tank with Bhaalist's and then have your main have the KotUK main / BT off hand with another armour, but like I said I couldn't really see any that were REALLY good, so maybe just better keeping it simple and having it on the main
Thanks for the suggestion!
@@DwarvesAndDice Cheers
So great to have it all broken down like this, super useful!
You're very welcome, I'm glad you found it useful!
Amazing video.
Also good to hear the damage ridwr comment as it seems only some of the DRSs fot nerfed in aotch 5, but I can't seem to find a full list of them
All of your math seems to match up on that front.
I wonder if there is even a list or what happened, I haven't had to the time to fully look into it but this should be a lot more accurate at the very least.
Thank you very much 😄
It would be interesting to see a comparison of the max damage build with a dual wield "on hit effect" build with heavier (NOT heavy) weapons.
Ahh do you mean like dual 1d8 weapons using dual wielder? I did that in one of the less accurate crit videos and it wasn't as great as I would have liked. In terms of honour mode, it nerfs in hit realllllly badly, otherwise if you wanted a tactician and below on hit one I could definitely look into it, but I know a lot of people are focussed on honour mode right now
@@DwarvesAndDice for me the game is all about playing with friends and the "flavor" of created characters far more than min/max. So, things like this are empirically interesting only in my case. I feel that is part of the genius of the game - one can play it either way and both yield a top notch experience of that type.
@@klstay Oh I completely agree about the game being amazing for you being able to do what you want and how you want it, of course as you can see I love all thing min/max but I also love making more thematic builds etc
Thanks for breaking it all down, i've been trying to wrap my head around it all and this helped ALOT! Would you be willing to put together a crit build that revolves around Eldritch Blast? I'm a big warlock geek but still can't seem to get it to crit as often as i think it should... thoughts? Also, gained a new sub from this guy!! keep up the great work!
I'm really glad it helped! Yeh I could have a look into Warlock and see what I can do. I'm not as well versed in spell casters yet (hence the focus on melee) but I'm sure I could come up with something effective (perharps not the best) I also love warlock, one of the coolest classes without a doubt
Thank you very much, I really appreciate it! 😄😄
So a couple of points/questions/clarifications.
1. I don't quite get the crit damage die examples that you showed and then later used at the 1:06 part. When you crit, the damage die is doubled. With the half orc passive or barbarian level 9, an extra one weapon die is added each time you crit (to my knowledge). So I don't get how you're getting the 1d8 weapon on a crit is dealing 41 damage. A 1d8 weapon on crit should be doing 2d8 normally, and then 3d8 with half orcs and 4d8 if you are a level 9 barb + 5 ability mod gets you a maximum of 37 damage (not counting any riders). Is that not how it works? Similarly with the greatsword example. A normal 2d6 greatsword would do 4d6 on a normal crit, 5d6 with savage attacks and 6d6 with brutal critical + 5 ability mod for a maximum of 41 damage. If the way I've described it is how it works, then the *4 and *6 multipliers you have for crits are incorrect when going over the numbers breakdown for the different builds, espescially when using greatswords. So for example, the 9.55 average on a greatsword in your first build would be multiplied by 2.5 and not 4 (2 because you're criting + 0.5 from savage attacks because you only get an extra d6 from it and not 2d6, and then in the examples where the multiplier is 6, it should be 3).
2. In the damage breakdown section for the first build, your DRS total has you using 1d8 for divine smites with an average damage of 5.81 with savage attacks, when it should be atleast double that for a first level divine smite, and probably more.
3. Good breakdown on DRS and Damage Riders and their interaction, but this discussion misses out on discussing the best 2H weapon for DRS damage. This weapon is the Bloodied Greataxe. Greataxe's get a special ability called prepare, which allows them to deal extra flat damage = str modifier. This damage is a DRS and will proc your riders a second time. Additionally, the Bloodied Greataxe does an extra d4 of damage when the user is under 50% health. This extra d4 is also a DRS. So if you setup with this, once per short rest, all of your attacks in the round will proc damage riders thrice by default. Using this on your first example, your number of procs jumps up from 5.32 to 12.52.
4. You should know that in honour mode, thankfully, basically all DRS interactions don't work. The only two that I've come across that still work in honour mode are the rat bat (which gets an extra piercing damage on attacks which still acts as a DRS) and the warlock 12th level eldtrich invication life drinker (extra necrotic damage = cha mod on weapon attacks which still acts as a DRS).
1. Huh now you point it out there's definitely something wrong here... I tried to adapt this section from the old video but I guess I failed. How I thought it worked is, you have 1d8, then if you have +2 you now have 3d8 then you crit dealing 6d8, which would only be 32 damage. I always work off of average damage, just for clarification, unless stated as max damage.
For the 2d6 therefore: 2d6 + 2 more 1d6 = 4d6 = 8d6(crit) = 28 on average.
I think the way it works is how I've stated it in this comment BUT you're right I've done it incorrectly in the damage breakdown (again due to poor adaptation from the old video where a 1d12 was used...)
I think it should actually be a modifier of 3 to the 9.55 to the first 3 builds, where it's 9.55 * 2 * (1+0.5). A mod of 4 (2 * [1+0.5+0.5]) for build 4. Build 5 should be unaffected.
If I'm wrong in assuming the additional damage also crits please let me know, this is quite a big difference in damage, but it will likely make the last build even more appealing 😂
2. You're totally right, it should have been 2d8, my bad! I misread it as 1d8, sorry.
3. I didn't want to mention the things like prepare because you can only use them once, personally I feel the extra damage isn't worth it, when trying to average over combats / days. It's also hard to take into account when you'll be below 50% hp but it is a fait point which adds quite a bit of damage each turn. Remember it'll only jump to 12.52 for that one turn, although how are you getting 12.52? I count, for that turn you'll get basic attack + 1d4 + prepare = 3 + the additional 1.72 from the other DRS (div smite + colossus slayer), therefore only 4.72? Then you still have 2.6 more attacks but that's not JUST the prepared turn, if that makes sense? Please elaborate, I'm very curios, I LOVE DRS / on hit kinds of things in games
4. Very interesting, I did mention DRSs not working (I think) but the fact they took out essentially ALL is quite interesting to me, I know they're strong and slightly unintuitive but a weird change for Honour mode but I don't blame them.
Thank you so much for your help and paying a lot of attention to the video to spot mistakes, I really appreciate it and love that there are others out there that love damage calculations like me!
@@DwarvesAndDice 1. Yes, I noticed that you were using average damage, which is what led me to pause and start looking at the numbers closely, because I was doing napkin math to follow along and my maximum numbers were sometimes lower than the ones presented, so I was like either I don't understand something fundamental, or there's some error somewhere.
The way I described brutal critical and the half orc passive working in my first point are how they've been used in every tabletop session I've been in since I started playing DnD. I will double check to make sure it's the same in game. But, yes, I don't think the extra crit die that they're adding are also doubled for the crits. To be fair, the way the half orc passive is written in game is straight up misleading.
3. For sure. It also feels a bit jarring to play if you have a very high max dpr but then struggle to kill things normally. I only mentioned it because I feel like this game incentivizes maximizing burst DPR as much as possible, since killing things in a nova round is the best form of crowd control. The 50% HP is actually fairly easy to manage on the initial rounds of combat, since you can always set it up using the illithid ability transfuse health. As to how I got 12.52 for the first example build you were showing, it's simply because prepare doesn't last for 1 attack, but for 1 turn, and the extra d4 damage is unconditional from a turn/round/action economy perspective. So every attack will proc your riders 3 times. At 3.6 attacks on average + colossus slayer + divine smite on crit you're getting a total number of procs = 3*3.6 + 1.72 = 12.52. On every other round when you don't have prepare, you'll still be getting 2*3.6 + 1.72 = 8.92 number of procs.
4. I'm honestly super relieved that they took them out for honour mode, there was no possible way that they could have left those in and had a worthwhile experience, since if you know what you're doing with DRS and DR mechanics, you can make builds that can when bursting for max damage do over 6000 damage in a turn. They'd have to make almost all bosses have multiple 1000s of HP for it to even try to make it a reasonable challenge for the knowledgeable DRS abusing folks out there (as was the case for many modded nightmare/ tactician+ difficulties). Like I've done a modded run where my lockadin could do 1400 damage/turn when abusing DRS/DR interactions, and so I had the bosses like Orin cranked up to have enough HP to survive that. I only hope that most of the DRS changes that are made in honor mode make their way to regular difficulties, because while they're a cool unintended effect likely because of some quirks in the game's code, they make any discussion of the tactics or gear selection completely meaningless when it comes to optimizing a build, since everyone resorts to using things which can stack as many damage riders onto as many drs as possible, and the game is meaninglessly trivial with those interactions. Meanwhile, for folks that do not know what's happening, they would be confused and maybe frustrated looking at the combat log trying to make sense of it all, since pre patch 5, it was extremely easy to end up with a build that was using DRS mechanics without trying to or knowing about it.
If you want a deep dive into DRS mechanics specifically as they pertain to the regular difficulties of the game, I'd highly recommend reading through bg3.wiki/wiki/Damage_mechanics on the community wiki, and watching these great deep dives by Ethan:
1. th-cam.com/video/yQEQPrWLB8M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Cx7znwwHPuI-05pf
2. th-cam.com/video/J-4KUyANKPU/w-d-xo.html
3. th-cam.com/video/1UnaW-U7dU0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Rw9BeTtxEeIEo8nP
@@common_undead I love a bit of napkin maths 😂 Interesting, the way it's worded is VERY poor, are you certain they don't get doubled? Tbh it's kinda disappointing if they don't since that feels like the point in increasing crit damage... I don't overly like going from TTRPG to BG3 just because there are some discrepancies between them, so I just don't fully trust RAW for 5e etc going to BG3 fully, but I can understand that most are pretty similar.
3. Ahhhh that's one BIG thing I never consider is the Illithid powers, I've only just started getting them in my playthrough but I haven't had time to play in about a month (Been really busy so I'm only in ACT1! 😅😅) I'm assuming there are some pretty nutty powers to be used for builds, probably even this build but like I've said I know nothing about it. I seeee, that lasting 1 turn does make a nova round pretty effective tbf, that makes a lot of sense for the 12.52 now, thanks! Adding on just that 1d4 really increases those DR doesn't it!
I do feel like I've done the crit builds an injustice with my videos then, given how inaccurate they are, what do you think I should do going forward?
4. Yeh that's a fair point, they are a bit too busted, I just LOVE on hit builds (thanks to league of legends...) Yeh I do agree it's not really fair for those who don't really know what's going on and BUSTED for those who do... I think it's best they removed it in Honour but I think they should leave it in normal for people to have an easier option when they want to.
I've tried to stay away from other content creator's work, I wanted to create unique/authentic stuff rather than just doing what everyone else was doing, if you think the videos are really worth the watch tho I'll give them a go, and try my best not to just take their info.
I've given that wiki page a GOOD FEW reads already, it does show the majority of things really well
Again thanks so much for your effort! I do really appreciate it and value your input
I wonder if Great Weapons might be better. Because while your crit threshold will be 1 higher (assuming you have the master feat), you can also reroll attack rolls that land on 1 or 2.
What part is this in relation to? I did do the calculations for using GWM and GWF in this video too, since bigger dice crit even bigger than small ones
@@DwarvesAndDice I made a mistake. It’s not the GWM feat, it’s the fighting style.
The threshold would be one higher due to swapping out the 2 weapons that decrease the threshold for just 1. I misremembered GWM as reducing the crit threshold for heavy weapons, that was a mixup.
@@purpledevilr7463 Ahh yeh the fighting style was taking into account, that's why it's 9.55 (with SA included too)
This being said, it has since been calculated to be more than 9.55 on the wiki since the video was made, but not by much more
As far as I know there's nothing that reduces crit threshold for great weapons specifically but there are of course a few that are general crit threshold reducers
@@DwarvesAndDice Cool. I can imagine something like that can be a pain to calculate (well at least for someone at my maths level).
I just remember it being a thing somewhere in a paladin/warlock build video I saw once. I tried to find it but can’t. So it probably was a misremember.
@@purpledevilr7463 Ahh ok, not sure what it could have been
The maths behind it wasn't too bad, if done Rules As Written, however, it is implemented in a really really strange way, where certain times it gets rerolled, and others it doesn't.... there was a really good reddit post that broke it down with some really lovely examples of how it counts everything, sadly it wasn't as straight forward as I thought, so it's like ~9.8 instead of 9.55 (just fyi 😄)
Deva mace best and offhand one of the crit swords or daggers
My crit design is usually 4 levels of champion fighter, dual wielder, 6 levels college of swords bard, savage attacker, 2 levels of paladin vengeance
The amount of smite slots is amazing, plus utility and can be party face:heavy armor high charisma, I used hag hair, everlasting vigor, and mirror of loss to have str at 22
Also use psychic damage rwhile concentrating ring, helldusk gloves, broodmother necklace, elemental weapon from drake glaive for additional damage sources
Oooo thats a different idea for the crit build than most others, I like it. The use of bard is interesting, is that just for flourish? How do you get the mace? From what Im reading someone has it equipped, I haven’t used the spell before so don’t know how that works
@@DwarvesAndDice bard bc you get extra attack at lvl 6, waaaaay more slots to smite with, plus several utility spells and yes flourishes which dice double on crit
To obtain the mace, loot the donation chests below the god temple near basilisk gate, you will be cursed for doing so, cast remove curse and a hostile deva will appear, kill the deva, loot the mace, drop is random, the above process can be repeated by placing any item into the donation chest and removing again, to reduce randomness one can take the devas corpse back to camp and drop it, long rest, and the corpse should disappear and a pouch will be sitting in its place with mace in it
@@zcjonesy Aha that's quite a bit of work but BOI is that mace worth it, thanks a lot!
Yeh that's pretty good for giving lots of spell slots, I like it very nice!
Does that mean you could dual wield 2 maces??
@@DwarvesAndDice certainly could, I prefer to still lower the crit number by wielding undermountain king until
I can get bloodthirst, but ya I’m sure there’s numbers to be run for dual wielding it as a thief rogue, but bonus action economy is more limited than base action, more ways to give you more actions (haste, action surge, elixir of bloodlust)-only helmet of grit and hat of pyro quickness give you more bonus actions
Also forgot one of the most important pieces of equipment, the risky ring! no need for 2 levels of barbarian for wreckless, you advantage all the time!
Savage Attacker only cares about melee weapon damage, so that doesn't make Half-Orc the best race unless they are actually playing a class that uses weapons in melee. While they're usually the best Smiters by far, and possibly some silly melee Rogue, the same can't be said for them being the best caster or much of anything else. They do get what is essentially a free Death Ward though, so there's that.
Yeh that's a fair point to raise, none of the other races are really that good tho, for melee certainly the best and ranged you are right there will be better, I just feel like their passive isn't even comparable to most of the other classes
@@DwarvesAndDice If you are playing on Honor Mode, there's an extremely strong argument for Halfling being the best race for basically anything but a dedicated smiter, but even then if they are going to be your face (10 Bard/2 Pal) they are still likely the best smiter in that mode too.
It's critical hit extra damage vs having a chance about as low as winning the lottery to land a critical miss.
If you don't like the way they look, Disguise-Self got your back. Those fortunate enough to have purchased the Deluxe Edition on PC at launch got a helm that gives infinite uses of it without any cooldown.
@@Neonmirrorblack You think Halflings are the best smiters for the 10 Bard / 2 Pal? Or am I misunderstanding?
I did the maths for halflings and how much they increase damage in my original mathematically correct crits (it wasn't a very good video but that section highlights the differences and how useless they actually are)
Aww that's quite a cool helmet, I never knew they gave that out with the deluxe edition
@@DwarvesAndDice I believe a Halfling with the 10/2 SSB is at the very least extremely competitive with the Half-Orc just for smiting. Where they pull ahead is at everything else, especially if you want to use them as your face or even face + lockpicker/pickpocket.
Strictly talking about Honor Mode here.
I saw your math video, but while it might be correct on a technical level, it's more of a spreadsheet and doesn't actually account for the situation. Your calculations seem to really only care about over time properties and not awful Critical Miss streaks which can, and do happen.
Avoiding those streaks is what makes the Halfling so good.
@@Neonmirrorblack They are definitely useful characters e.g. I use the halfling hireling as my potion crafter in camp
Are you running Karmic dice? I mean sometimes it's just the way the dice roll, although they do technically help with it, any time you have advantage it's just a waste of a race but I do understand where you're coming from.
I do think they are the top 2 races
You're talking about crits and crit builds but you haven't mentioned the dolor amerus weapons. I'm guessing you haven't tested them yet since it falsely says "when this weapon crits" in the tooltip but the extra damage on crit from those weapons are added to the calculations from all weapons used. They are not extra damage dice like other bonuses in the game but are actual extra damage. 7 damage for each weapon (2x dolor amerus daggers, 1x vicious shortbow) so that's 21 flat damage boost to your normal damage, sneak attack damage AND the craterfish gloves bonus damage if you're wearing them. The damage becomes RIDICILOUS if you crit, almost one shotting any endgame trash enemy. The downside is that you cannot really stack crit chance with this build because the weapon slots are taken so you lose on those but if you can master the art of surprising the enemy then I believe this is the ultimate build.
Ahhh I haven't actually seen these weapons, they seem very interesting!
Mixing that with the Baahlist armour might be really spicy!
I think there's defo a really OP build there somewhere but it has a few things needing sorted out, I'm assuming assassin would be the way to go but then you miss out on the extra bonus action attack from thief. I also think there's room to move with the crit chance being lowered, it's not great but on the whole I think you could still be critting enough especially with advantage.
I think having the 3 guaranteed crits with assassin with Bhaalist's would be great tho, for the 3 attacks in crit round:
72 dmg (weapon)
42 dmg (dolor)
Sneak attack depends on # of levels into it but it could be about 28 dmg
21 force (gloves)
135 total (rough maths) on that first nova round of assassin
You are correct in that the extra 21dmg from dolor weps do indeed also gets doubled from the vulnerability. You are also correct that these weapons can only really be utilised by an assassin build. Thief extra bonus is really just redundant and not required in this case. Besides you need two weapon fighting to make use of your off hand attacks.
Bhaalist armor definitely helps but doesn't help you at all if you're aiming for a ranged build. If you're going for a melee crit build than you are better of swapping out one of the dolor daggers for the crimson mischief in your mainhand which adds further damage if you attack with advantage. I tested it, for melee crimson is better in main hand, for ranged you're better off with 3x dolor weapons.@@DwarvesAndDice
@@tetefather baahlist's can help a ranged if you get someone in the frontline to wear it while you shoot from afar. Ahhh yeh the Chrimson Mischief does look like a better option on the whole tbh (melee) having that with the Baalists has to be really good, since the
@@DwarvesAndDice I hit for 256dmg total today while testing this build, in one main hand hit! And I'm not joking. It was the last hit to the brain in the last ever fight and had to just skip thru all the cut scenes until the epilogue just to go through all the dmg meter data lol
Ohhh wow now that's a lot of dmg! That's definitely one thing I don't take into account much is the possible HIGHS you can get with builds, I always think of averages but I can only imagine it feels SO good when you roll good @@tetefather
This is really great. Have you considered what kind of crit build you could do if you didn't have to worry about the crit chance? I've been running a control bard using hold person, and it's incredibly strong. But, I'm wondering how far you could push your crits if all you cared about was the crit damage.
I'm pretty sure I'd be maxing all the DRS I could, I don't have a build in mind for it but it would be really cool, will have a think about it and see what I can do. I don't really like spells/things that are SR/LR gated, since you can't apply that very many times, the inconsistency is a pain for the maths too
I'm sure you've seen some of the comments about it not being 100% right, I'll likely make a follow up video about it just to tidy everything up, sorry about that
@@DwarvesAndDice Yeah, spells can be really limited. The good thing about hold person is that it's only a level 2 spell, so you can stretch it a long way and upcasting it gets you an additional person per spell level. So, you can stretch you spell slots a long way. There aren't a lot of Spell DC increasing items in Act 1 though, so it can be less reliable early on. By act 3 it can be practically guaranteed to land though.
Another option I tested with it was using Shocking Grasp. It benefits from the auto crit, and you can combine it for wet to apply vulnerable. I was getting over 100 lightning damage per attack.
@@corranhorn85 I do like the upcasting, that would stretch it quite a bit further.
The vulnerability on lightning/cold spells makes them so busted..... honestly anything with vulnerability is busted
I've been trying to make a crit build using spell Sniper. It works great with shocking grasp, but doesn't have an effect on Way of the Elements Ki spells ☹️
Awww man really? That sucks... I'm assuming normal crit threshold reduction still works with them tho right?
@@DwarvesAndDice It does, but that pretty much limits the build to Acts 2 & 3.
@@Cleptomancer Yeh that's fair
Spellsniper lets you reduce the crit threshold by 1 for spells.
Though it’s probably not worth it damage wise.
It is a nice to have but I'm assuming either ASI or maybe war caster will end up being more worth, just depends on the specific build tbf
@@DwarvesAndDice I saw an interesting build recently that was an GOO warlock that just wanted to inflict fear on all enemies at all time.
It can be good for some Illithid RP.
@@purpledevilr7463 Ahhh yeh I was planning on min maxing a build for that, as much crit as possible and just see how much crowd control I can get out of it, I think it would be really fun and like you said great for RP!
@@DwarvesAndDice if you do, warlock-rogue-fighter would be the way to go. It gets you that ability to disengage/hide to retrigger the shadeslayer cloak, and the expertise of Rogue can be quite nice for RP too by putting it in Arcana.
@@purpledevilr7463 Yeh that sounds about the way I'd go about it, at least my first combo to test, I would definitely be taking assassin for those guaranteed crits too, then you are definitely going to fear some enemies straight away at the start of combat which would be very nice, and since Eldritch Blast can target so many at once (plus action surge) I think it would be really fun and pretty cool
I went thief7/champion5 with bhaalist armor. The piercing vulnerability led to disgusting damage when critting. 4 attacks per turn plus big sneak attack damage made everything just melt
Ohhhhh yeh that sounds like you come out of the shadows and just annihilate anything you see! Love it! What weapons were you running?
@@DwarvesAndDice Orin's daggers. Had risky ring to always have advantage. I used astarion for this cause my main was a sorc but even without the half orc boost I managed to deal over 200 damage per turn regularly
@SSSmokeStyle damn thats crazy damage, makes sense just using astarion, I dont even think theres a hireling thats half orc but I haven’t checked in ages
@@SSSmokeStyle Another way to use the Bhaalist armor is to take the sharpshooter and crossbow expert feats, dual wield hand crossbows, and attack with the crossbows in melee range.
You should check a Champion 3 pala 5 sorcerer 4 with unseen menace melee (crit on 19+always* advantage) deadshot bow sarevok helmet and elixir of viciousness.crit on a 15 with advantage. Plus half orc as race and i think level 4 smite amounts for biggest damage. Tho bloodthirst + kotuk with bhaalist armour still deals more damage but i it feels anticlimatic to deal so much damage with 2 tiny knifes
Yeh I could look into that, if its really effective I might make it into its own little video too!
I completely understand the underwhelming feeling with the daggers, I’m thinking you could replace Bloodthirst with a rapier and the piercing vulnerability armour, or maybe double rapier (Im assuming KotUK is too strong to drop too)
My only problem with it is the spell slots, it feels kind bad if you don’t have the slots when you need them, but maybe thats just a me problem…
I’ll need to look into sorcerer more, I’ve seen it mentioned before but I didnt think it would be that useful for a melee build but I guess i might be wrong
@@DwarvesAndDiceyeah. Sorcerer just gives you more spell slots. And as a crit fishing paladin i prefer to reserve all spell slots for crit smites for max efficiency. Shars spear dual wielded with kotuk would also be quite nice and kinda thematic. But youd have to take savage attacker and dual wielder as feats
@@Ranstail Ahhh ok that makes sense, I love it that they put in the "ask only on crit" reaction thing, just a great quality of life thing
Thanks for the video! Numbers are fun. Im wondering if you run the numbers but remove crit elixer and use Str 27 potion or bloodlust potion instead. If not in honor mode the later would do more dmg, but im curious about the numbers for honor mode.
You're very welcome! I enjoyed making it and calculating it.
I'll give it a go and see what I come out with, if it's effective I might throw it in a little follow up video, along with some other comment's suggestions!
I haven't used the Str 27 potion, do you know if it's easy to attain?
@@DwarvesAndDice easy to obtain? If you can find a trader who sells its, or sells the components, you can buy off them every long rest and every time a party member levels up.
@@lostsoulman Yeh I know some potions/elixirs are harder to get, I haven't seen it before (at least don't remember) but that sounds like it's easy enough so worth having a look at
@@DwarvesAndDiceYou can get the 27 str elixir in act1 once you're level 6 I think, by buying the fingers in the myconid colony. So if you're willing to reset the vendors a bunch then you can get as many as you need for the game. The elixirs are readily available (if you're willing to farm vendors) in act3, but I didn't see much at all in act2. I held off using them till near the end of act2, using the 21str elixirs (I bought a huge supply off of Ethel in act1.)
@@CodeKujo got you makes sense to stack up on some for act 2 then since they’re less common there. I haven’t yet gotten to the myconid colony, i stopped just as I reached the under dark
very helpful thanks
You’re very welcome 😊
Have been doing alot of in game testing with crits.
Mostly on ranger/fighter/rogue combo
Assasin+gloomstalker+champion gives a load of dmg for sure
Bard is also cool if u are ranged the split shot ability goes hard
Ahh yeh I did think about making a build around Assasin+gloomstalker+champion, it seemed like a really cool thematic build.
I do know a lot of people run the bard for the flourish, someone said it might be THE best build in the game but I haven't looked into it yet
@@DwarvesAndDice got me thinking on some builds for real, the risky ring could be a cool option tbh. Just make sure to get 1st go in a round and then drop it after. with the high crit builds it could do alot of dmg(the ones that dont run assasin) for advantage.
@@sizze3998 Yeh that's what I'm thinking, could be some SPICY damage / burst rounds
I've been trying to figure out how you got to these numbers, and i only did the barbarian/champion so far, because i knew it couldn't be right, and here's what i got.
9 berserker, 3 champion
Half orc
Great weapon fighting style
Great weapon master
1 asi hags hair and abuse Astarion for 22 strength
Greataxe +2, 1d12, 7.33 average with fighting style (standard one for this math, pretty easy to buy, there's also one that gives spells and one that adds fire damage, but they are harder to get)
Elixir+helmet+champion+dead shot+ enraging heart garb
21 AC for shits and giggles
.36 to crit, .48 to hit .16 to miss
Opening round, rage, reckless attack, attack surge attack 2 more times
1d12+6 strength +2 for weapon +10 for gwm +2 for rage +2 for rath
.36(7.33×4+22)+.48(7.33+22)
32.5536 for 4 attacks 130.2144 total damage first round
With standard greatsword, 20 strength, just rage, no wrath
.36 to crit, can't hit without crit
.36×(4.16×6+10+5+2+2)
15.8256 4 times for 63.3024
As you did it with Greatsword, but using Balduran's Giantslayer with giant form
21.49 damage(2d6+3+1d6+⁶ with fighting style)
.36(4.16×10+29)+.48(4.16×3+29)
45.3264 4 times 181.3056
Ok one more, same build 22 strength/dualing fighting style, Savage Attacker, Dualists Prerogative 1d8 +3 weapon +6 strength +2 dualing fighting style +2 rath +2 rage +4 withering cut
.4375 to crit .44 to hit .1225 to miss
.4375(5.8125×4+19)+.44(5.8125+19)
29.401875 4 times for 117.6075
Wow thanks for taking the time to calculate all this out!
I want to point out that I didn't include things like hags hair therefore I will have lower numbers anyways. I also took Savage attacks on it too which I don't think I see you accounting for, until the las one I guess
You're doing the crit dmg wrong, the things like +2 from rage, GWM +10 and from weapons don't crit, they should be taken into account separate with total hit chance = crit chance + normal hit chance. You also don't have the 2x (for the fact your crit) but I'm assuming when you did the calculation you did actually make the damage crit?
I was keeping things as item agnostic as possible, at least when this was released. Unless the build specifically called for an item, so an enchanted +2 weapon will increase your numbers a bit. tbf going forward I think enchantments are common enough I'll likely include them readily, but as for specific weapons, I likely won't be doing that any time soon.
I didn't actually take into account GWM +10 dmg for -25% to hit, I only used it for the extra attack rolls.
Back when I made this I also wasn't consistent with my number of SR/LR & combats, otherwise I would have taken into account the action surge too, so that is missing. I also wasn't consistent with the AC of the enemy back then, so that's something that's changed since.
I was also running Berserker, why are you running beast heart? Do you think you get more damage out of it overall? I quite liked the berserker for the guaranteed use of the bonus action if GWM didn't pro
It's also important to look at the sustained damage and not just the burst round damage, which you looked at with all using AS
I know the video was not by any means perfect, I know there are plenty of mistakes (sadly)
Let me know what you think and if you have any further comments or questions!
Edit: Also did you take into account the extra crit dice?
@@DwarvesAndDice I do my equations to show everything.
Here's an example
.4375(5.8125×4+19)+.44(5.8125+19)
Chance to crit × (average damage roll × number of dice + add-ons)+chance to hit × (average damage roll × number of dice+add-ons)
That way it's all spelled out in one problem. Savage Attacks is the half orc ability of adding one extra crit die, Savage Attacker is the advantage on damage rolls thing, which I used the appropriate average roll in the calculation to account for. If I take GWM, I generally don't mess about with berserker, because I hate missing and -1 stacking with -5 is a pain to account for in the math. These builds are mostly unable to take Savage attacker and great weapon master because they are two feat builds, and feats are ALWAYS less valuable than taking an ASI until you hit 20.
@@DwarvesAndDice I didn't do bestial heart, but the bonus action is consumed by raging. You can't have both great weapon master and savage attacker without hags hair or elixir, unless you want 16 strength, but let's say we did savage attacker and 18 strength, with an off the shelf regular greataxe(although a greataxe is infinitely better than a 2d6 weapon with barbarian 9 or savage attacks[orc extra die])
.36 to crit, .28 to hit, .36 to miss
0.36×(4.47×6+4)+.28×(4.47×2+4)
14.7184 per attack, 4 attacks with surge, but no bonus action attack because it was consumed by raging 58.8736 total first round. Second round does 44.1552, 3rd round hit chance decreases to 0.2175, due to strain so 13.90965×3 for 41.72895. 4th round is 13.0362×3 for 39.1086. either way a non-enchanted greataxe would be 8.49×4=33.96 rather than 4.47×6=26.82
@@DwarvesAndDice one more response, I did it wrong. I forgot that savage attacker stacks with great weapon fighting style, so that means a d6 averages to 4.66 and a d12 averages to 8.53.
@@singincowboy You're including the add-ons in the crit section but most of them don't crit so that boosts your damage a bit higher
I don't think feats are always less valuable than ASI always, there are definitely cases where ASI is less impactful, although it is generally strong of course
So in terms of the last build with barbarian and rogue i understand taking KotUK in your offhand as opposed to using it in the main hand because of the Bloodthirst passive, but what about Two-Weapon Fighting? The wiki states that dual wielder does not give you two weapon fighting so im not sure why you have to take it to begin with since both KotUK and Bloodthirst are already considered light weapons. So is the damage listed in the final Barbarian(9) and Rogue (3) taking into account that you dont apply your damage modifier to your off hand or are you applying your damage modifier to the offhand with something else? I would also like to add that I agree to making another update video just to make it perfect, because this content is great but it would be cool if a final draft of the video was made with all the polishing after making all the necessary corrections and updating information with the correct stuff just to make it less confusing.
Thanks for your input about the final video!
Yeh you’re totally right about the 2 weapon fighting, it should be that and not Dual Wielding for that build, mb.
As a side note, there has been a comment about taking Dual Wielder and getting 2 Diva Maces, then run an armour that gives enemies vulnerability to piercing, this might be the best but I haven’t run the numbers
Do you have any other comments about the final video?
I might look into the deva mace thing but I think it deals bludgeoning and radiant damage only so I'm not sure what the piercing vulnerability armor is for.
I was honestly just excited to finally see someone making videos on build optimization for crits. With this I feel like you've already done loads for the min maxing side of the bg3 community since I personally haven't found any videos like this with so much in depth explanation.
It's probably gonna be really hard to not miss something even in the final video because there are so many game mechanics that need to be taken into account when theory crafting for the different kinds of builds you provided so some mistakes here and there might be unavoidable.
Maybe you could turn this into some sort of revision series on your channel with future updates to crit builds if more information is discovered or just quick updates for future patches? Idk tho its a lot of work and it might be too much to ask so even if it is just one more video to clean up the concept you deserve a big thanks and you get my respect for all the hard work you put into making these regardless.👍
@@sussyballs-w2g Ahhh damn I read it as a morning star (for some unknown reason...) It wouldn't work then...
Thanks for the huge compliment! It really means a lot!!
I love going in-depth, even if I'm wrong, then you guys in the comments always notice one thing or come up with another idea, I LOVE IT!
Of course I will try get everything I can but like you said, it's really hard to take EVERYTHING into account.
I would love to turn it into a revision series, I just hope you guys would enjoy watching the process (rather than just getting the be all end all, if that makes sense)
I think it would be really cool to just keep iterating on it and see where the comments can take it, I might shorten them down, cut out some of the maths into it's own video, then go into each video just talking about the maths for each build until we can finally reach the best one, there are so many combinations I'm sure comments will always keep coming up with something so squeeze out just a little more damage each time, it also gives a good overview of all the kinds of builds out there, so I'm all for it!
I've been running the "bladesinger" subclass mod for honour mode. With unoptimized slots, but still good gear at Wiz lvl6, Fighter lvl4 ( infernal rapier, caustic band, callous glow ring, potent robe, necklace of elemental augmentation, helldusk gloves ), I get around 200 damage per turn with multiples booming blades or green flame blades, especially with Spirit Shroud active ( 5e spells mod ) that acts as a DRS. I've been trying adding "holy weapon" on top too lately, it helps, but it was a bit underwhelming, doesn't act as a DRS. Just saying this because non-crit oriented build can also be stupidly powerful, in fact, this bladesinger build is relatively weak, I saw a build in patch 3 or 4 dish out 6000 ( you read that right ) in 1 turn. Probably been nerfed in P5, but still OP AF. There are also other many more 1k+ dmg per turn builds out there, or were, if they've been nerfed.
I haven't tried any sort of modding yet, I was told it's a pain if you want to unmod after modding (to be able to play with friends, apparently) I wasn't including any spells in this one, trying to keep it simpler, when you start adding spells things can get kinda crazy but I will end up doing that down the line.
How is the DRS working in honour mode? is that because it's modded?
I will also be going for min/maxing normal builds too, I'm planning on making a full on hit DRS/DR build at some point which I'm looking forward to (I have a soft spot for on hit builds)
Over 6000 dmg is INSANE! is that just modded builds or normal ones too? I've tried to stay away from looking at BG3 builds to keep mine my own, if that makes sense
@@DwarvesAndDice I've been looking, but not copying. Would make the game way too easy ( unless you use mods that increase difficulty, then it's fair game, act 1 enemies with 200 HP and 26 AC that have minions, ghouls, the crielta crags encounter to be precise, that cast hold person and can basically wipe out your party in 1 turn ).
So I try to come up with my own stuff.
DRS sometimes work, I know it works with Spirit Shroud for example, don't know if it's because it comes from the 5e spells mod or not, but watching other people play unmodded Bg5 P5, I can see some other DRS still working, BG3 hasn't nerfed all of them.
As for modding, if you bought the game from GoG and use the BG3 mod manager, it's not really an issue. You do 2 installs, you keep one copy unmodded for online play ( the GoG launcher one ) in a different folder than the one set in preferences in BG3 Mod manager ( that you install manually elsewhere after having downloaded the full install files ). You launch the modded copy from the BG3 Mod manager and the online one from windows explorer or GoG launcher, works for me.
@@seamon9732 Wow the modding community have added some good stuff, I still haven't looked into any mods yet, I'm on steam.
That's really strange, I wonder why they're picking and choosing what to keep and what not to 🤔
What about Shadow Slayer Cloak??
Doesn't that reduce crit roll too? -1 to roll.
Wouldn't that improve your crit chance percentage too??
Yeh it does but I left out all the "when hiding" kind of things as they're less consistent that the ones mentioned, which are guaranteed. You can always take it on top of everything else but at that point the gain isn't actually that much (because advantage skews rolls upwards), there therefore might be better options than to just reduce another 1 on the crit, but I haven't looked at all the equipment pieces
@@DwarvesAndDice ...I'm guess I'm trying to plan a multiclass stealth archer. The Dead Shot bow makes me want to stealth sneak attack. Especially with pass without trace and extended greater invisibility. I'm trying to plan Shadowheart as a cleric / sorcerer for all the necessary buffs.
@@BosskV2 Aha, then yeh if you max out all the stealth crits you can actually get down to about 13, you can also replace the Sarevok's helmet with Dark Justiciar helmet or covert cowl as I think they're easier to get but only work with stealthy/obscured builds
@@DwarvesAndDice ...brilliant. Thanks for the tip.
Do you need to take dual wielder feat when you already took two weapon fighting as a fighting style?if you will only dual wield daggers?
You know that's a very fair point 😅 I left it in after the original videos but you're totally right, you don't really need it... that being said I'm now looking at some comments that might suggest taking Dual Wielder and running the armour that makes enemies vulnerable to piercing, then you can dual wield rapiers or get the diva mace as main and off hands but you're totally right!
@@DwarvesAndDice Thank you for the clarification, I was confused myself. So in the case of dual wielding two light finesse weapons,is it better to take asi as the first feat or savage attacker?
@@wally8619 Savage attacker is as follows:
Weapon deals 1d4 damage: average bonus damage is 0.625
Weapon deals 1d6 damage: average bonus damage is 0.972
Weapon deals 1d8 damage: average bonus damage is 1.3125
ASI gives +1 damage per attack (and additional chance to hit)
So assuming a 1d4 or 1d6 go ASI first
If going Dual Wielder with 1d8's then go Savage Attacker first
(note this is base weapons, if going with DRS then I think savage attacks will be better and if going with KotUK, because it rerolls on 1 or 2, the savage attacks is better first, by about 0.2 dmg per attack)
@@DwarvesAndDice Savage attacker rerolls all dice not just base weapon dice. Any amount of extra dice will invariably outstrip an asi, including dipping in fire. This is especially true for crits (which double all dice) and for half-orcs (they add a base damage die on melee crits for each damage source, eg a 1st level half-orc rogue sneak attack critting with a shortsword deals 3d6+3d6 (1d6 doubled +1 die for base weapon and 1d6 sneak doubled +1 die)). A Phalar aluve proc on a crit would become 3d4 + other bonuses for each base damage source (sneak attack, smites, base weapon damage) on a half-orc in melee).
@@johnparker8648 I had a look on the wiki and savage attacks (half-orcs) does not apply on sneak attack. It is ONLY on weapon and certain other things, like divine smite, I can't find a definitive list tho... The savage attacks (adv on dmg dice feat) does not apply on sneak attack, it does seem to apply on other things, idk why sneak attacks are weird. It doesn't say anything about fire etc.
The half-orc passive is also only going to be 4d6, it doesn't crit the additional dice sadly. So it's 1d6 weapon + 1d6 crit + 1d6 savage attacker + 1d6 sneak attack + 1d6 sneak attack crit
Question: does great weapon fighting actually matter? or defense fighting style is still superior?
Great weapon fighting is less impactful when using savage attacks (due to advantage rolling higher on average so less 1/2 to reroll)
The damage increase (2d6 with savage + GWF) is 7 -> 9.55 (GWF = +0.6, savage attacks giving the +1.95)
without the savage attacks its 7 -> 8.333 (+1.333)
So its up to you, per turn from GWF you’re defo getting some increased damage but with savage attacks it might be better going a bit tankier
I hope that helps answer your question ☺️
@@DwarvesAndDice i appreciate that and the whole video. Not a min maxer and just finished my first honor run starting second. I love the arcane acuity sword bard to hold everything so trying to get a cri build going. I used to use a 2pal 10 bard for banish smite burst, dmg is ok but utility is not. So 9barb 3thief sounds a lot more mobile. Thanks again for your work!
@@fanfan9748 No problem at all, I'm glad you found it helpful! The Barb/Thief is my favourite so far but I'm sure some other commenters will end up suggesting some really spicy combinations
so if the class ability and race ability for crit damage increase are to merely add +1 dice, why are we using a greatsword here? wouldn't a greataxe be a better option? doesn't 4d12 do more damage on average than 6d6? 26 v 21. an argument can be made about how with great weapon master allowing you to reroll 1s and 2s, this would be modified, but then the fact that more dice trend towards the median would need to be considered as well. whatever, I am sure even those thoughts wouldn't make up for the fact that those two daggers seem to just vastly outperform.
That's what I thought at first too, turns out with GWF rerolling it's MUCH more effective when rerolling on the 2/6 than the 2/12, it ends up outweighing 1d12 quite a bit (if memory serves) I think 1d12 only JUST outperforms when at +2 crit dice but I can't remember exactly, but yeh, the daggers are a bit too op 😂
On top of that the savage attacks actually works better with the 2d6 than the 1d12 (with rerolls included) the damage was about 0.88 per attack (in favour of 2d6)
Really interesting and awesome video. For the 9 barb 3 champion the best weapon is greataxe though, specifically the hellfire greataxe due to the additional d6 fire damage. This would edge out the slight increase you get from gwf style on a 2d6 weapon.
Also, for the last section, did you take into account that the 9 barb/3 thief would not have access to two weapon fighting style, and so would lose ability bonus to offhand weapon? Could get that fighting style with gloves, but then you lose out on 1d6 damage from helldusk gloves (which would be doubled on crit). Or is that offset by the sneak attack once per round?
Thank you very much! Ahhh I didn't really consider specific weapons like that, I guess I'll have to have a look into hellfire greataxe.
Yeh I did, you're right, well spotted! I would say that having the fighting style gloves will be better at lower crit chance and worse with higher, I haven't done the maths for that, just off the top of my head 😊(that would change in Honour mode, as DRS are not counted as DRS but instead DR)
The way I understand it, regardless of DR Vs DRS, if it's a dice rather than a flat bonus (helldusk gloves Vs the 2 acid damage ring for example) it will get doubled on a crit. For max crit damage you'd want hellfire greataxe, the shadow ring, and helldusk gloves. That would give 4d12 + 2d6 (axe) + 2d6 (helldusk gloves) + 2d4 (shadow ring), so 10 - 80, all rolled with advantage from savage attacker, before any other bonuses. All of which should still double in honour mode.
Edit: forgot that the dice from brutal critical and half orc racial don't get rerolled by SA
With SA, that gear set up would give an average of about 46 per crit, before extras from strength, rage, weapon enchant etc. wouldn't outpace dual wielding, but best for 2h
@@jaxlewis85 I was under the impression only DRS were getting effected by crit, I could be wrong of course but I haven't seen anyone saying about DR getting crit.
Therefore if it's like that it wouldn't get doubled if it was honour mode since DRS doesn't exist there
Of course for normal mode (which is probably the majority of players?) it's great!
@@jaxlewis85 Yeh I still think it's important to look for the best for each kind of weapon, I know a lot of people wouldn't really wanna run a dual wield dagger for a crit build, I know I'd prefer using 2H'er so to have the best build for each weapon would be really nice, thanks for the tips!!