00:40 We are interested in the process of canonization of the Bible as a collection of literature, and you are saying "It was God who decided what books belonged....." That's is BS.
Great video, I agree with everything especially the fact that you say that the Canon wasn't determined by the Church, but God determined it and the Church recognized it. You should probably change the title of the video because it sounds like you're going to say the exact opposite? Maybe it should say: How the Church Received the Canon of Scripture.
@@peterimade003 If God created trillions of galaxies and we have only existed on one planet for maybe 100 years, It's not possible for humans to be able to comprehend how the Holy Spirit works. Human intellect cannot figure it out.
@@peterimade003 If you're asking how the early churches determined which books were accepted, I'll just give a short summary. It wasn't that they had a meeting one day and decided that some books were good and some were not. Writings were considered of God or not of God basically when written-by those who followed God. God chose the Israelites to be His people. When Moses was alive he wrote the first 5 books(called the books of the law). He died, scribes passed down the writing through the generations. The Israelites knew that these writings were of God I mean their ancestors saw the miracles God did with their own eyes. What if the scribes made mistakes? We know how meticulous they treated their task, they had people whose sole job was to count the number of words in each transcription and if anything was off it was thrown out and recopied. They literally knew they were writing the words of God so it's not like a 9 to 5 job where they could make some mistakes, in their culture they feared God/had tremendous reverence for God and there was nothing more important in their lives than this. You can also look up the reliability of the dead sea scrolls. After Moses, the prophets of God were affirmed by miracles, their writings are included in the Old Testament. You can also look up fulfilled prophecy in the Bible to see the reliability of these prophets. The rest of the Old Testament are Historical books and Wisdom/Poetry books that the Jews accepted. We know Jesus quotes from it, the apostles also quote from it. What I'm basically saying is that when the writings were written, the Jews accepted it or not, and they weren't like us now who just 'do religion' on Sunday, they didn't treat this task casually at all, it was everything to them. Look up how many laws they had to keep back then and see how zealous they were. For the New Testament, the criteria was basically if the author was an apostle(or affirmed by the apostle), if the writing taught the orthodox faith, and if the writing/letter had been widely accepted in the earliest churches. For a little over 300 years after Jesus ascended, Christians were being hunted and killed, so they could not meet publicly or officially decide the New Testament canon amongst all the churches. Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and there was a heresy spreading(Arianism) which moved the churches to establish the official New Testament canon so people would not be led astray by false teachings. I'm pretty sure that's when the first list of New Testament books were official. I should note that Catholics, Protestants and the Eastern Orthodox Churches all agree to the same books in the New Testament. If you do the research, the Bible is by far the most reliable historical document we have. If you're asking about proof of the Holy Spirit, what I mentioned above and also how the Bible describes the Holy Spirit is that it is like a wind(the Hebrew translation for Spirit can refer to wind) it blows where it wishes but we do not know where it comes from or where it goes.
I find it funny you cite early church fathers but ignore them when they refute you on the Deuterocannonical Books. And this is coming from a protestant.
Not only does he ignore them. he fails to mention that Clement of Rome 95 ad was Bishop of Rome. The same for Hippolytus. The Roman Church gave us the Scriptures. Christianity comes from the Church. The very fact that there are not protestant christians preaching Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide anwhere in the centuries leading to the Protestant Reformation is proof enough.
@@TheMenghi1 And that is why I finally left Protestantism and am joining the Catholic Church. The dishonesty in protestant theology is mind blowing. Ignoring 1500 years of church history just to make their own crap up as they go along.
@@TheMenghi1the Roman church did not “give us the scriptures “ God did. And clement of Rome taught Sola Fide, and St Augustine taught very clearly that the writings of the church fathers is fallible . Also Jesus , taught Sola Fide and Paul and the whole gospel.
@@HollywoodBigBossyou mean like the Roman Catholic Church did for 1500 years. You went from believing the Gospel and the inerrant word of God to believing Mary worship and purgatory? I’m sorry you didn’t trust Jesus and looked to man :( he loves you and you can come back whenever you want
@@cwojtas4222 No I went from believing in a heretical doctrine of Martin Lucifer to the one true Apostlic Church. So question for you and answer VERY carefully. If your view is correct then either Jesus lied that Satan would not overcome his church or The Holy Spirit failed the Disciples and Apostles. Seeing as both above statements are blasphemy and after reading the Apostlic Father's, The Didache etc. I know Martin Lucifer and his 5 Solas are from HELL ITSELF and I have Zero doubt that is where he ended up too.
I’ll save you time guys. The Eastern and Western Churches compiled the cannons in the first centuries. Later Protestants removed some books from the OT and tried to remove even more from the NT
If memory serves the first KJV Bible had 73 Old Testament books. And if not decided by The Catholic Church, who comprised The Church exactly? And where do The Scriptures teach sola scriptura?
I’m a Christian and have been since my childhood. Read the Bible in full multiple times and I only say these things to give myself at least a little credibility for what I’m about to say. So know I’m not trying to be a contrarian. The people who compiled the books are men we don’t and cannot know of. We know through documented history, certain religious figures who quoted from this book or that, but the bible we have today (Protestant bible and even the Catholic bible) descend from what was decided in those early councils from men we do not know. We do not know those men intimately like we know of John and Peter. Or Saul who became Paul. I trust that Gods word is inspired and inerrant. I also acknowledge that, realistically speaking, we really can’t know which books the apostles would have considered scripture or not (old and new). To be fair, that early church didn’t even have all the New Testament books yet that we even read today, plus with the lack of a printing press, it must have taken some time for those epistles to really get around. That all being said, I believe in the Lord. I believe in the Bible we read. I believe when theological archeologists point to older manuscripts that lack certain passages/changed verses. And most importantly, I believe that if the Lord wanted us to read or not read certain books, He’d lay that in our hearts and make that clear. The Bible as we know it has authority until God tells us otherwise.
As I heard someone say, “If God can’t give us a book without errors in it (in the original autographs, not the copies), what makes you think He can get you out of a grave?” God has always used ordinary, flawed, weak people (like you and me) in extraordinary ways. What we have has withstood the test of time and the onslaught of those who sought to destroy this book or at least keep it out of the hands of regular folks. IMHO, if it weren’t God’s Word, it would not have survived. The fact that from Genesis to Revelation, the narrative is consistent, considering the fact it was written (I might be off on my numbers a bit) over 1,500 years, in 3 languages, by 40 different authors on 2 continents. We have thousands of manuscript copies made by “human Xerox machines” (scribes) who made it their life profession to make sure they copied it right. Yes, they made some mistakes, but they were minor. Quite a feat if you ask me. Then there were those who were killed (burned at the stake) to dare translate it into the native tongue. We hold a miracle in our hands!
Catholics believe that it was with the guidance of the Holy Spirit they were only able to compile the books of the Bible but yes, to your point- that is why we don't believe in Sola Scriptura and rely on tradition as well. And also, every priest in the Catholic church can trace his priestly lineage back to the apostles . So every priest os ordained with the blessing of a bishop ( priest) who was ordained by another all the way back to the apostles. No other religion can claim that .
When i have difficulties in understanding any biblical verse i always seek Got Questions, they are fully trust worthy and are Born Again Brothers who would NEVER mess around with Gods Words, for they are, as we are, God Fearing, and as we, they also know the price TO PAY for those who indulges in twisting Gods Words to suit their Religious Doctrines. Shalom.
@@Yoandrys23 “Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and put him to death; but there was no sword in David’s hand. Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and put him to death and cut off his head with it. Then the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, so they fled.” 1 Samuel 17:50-51
@@JackmeriusTacktheritrix-000 Oh ok, and who's this one? "And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam" 2 Samuel 21:19
@@Yoandrys23 Sorry for the delay, I’m really busy so I had to cheat. Here’s an excerpt from the Got Questions guys: “Why does 2 Samuel 21:19 say that Elhanan killed Goliath? One viable theory is that, somewhere in the chain of copying the text, a scribe made a mistake. The Hebrew word for “the brother of” was miswritten, which changed the grammar of the sentence and led to a problematic sentence structure for the next scribe. The second scribe’s attempt to solve the syntactical puzzle produced a reading that omitted the important detail of Goliath’s brother. Fortunately, we have 1 Chronicles 20:5, which contains the correct Hebrew wording and informs us, through implication, that 2 Samuel 21:19 is missing the words the brother of. We can be confident that David killed Goliath. Elhanan later killed Goliath’s brother. Further, the context of 2 Samuel 21:19 makes it clear that it is describing an entirely separate event from David’s slaying of Goliath in 1 Samuel 17:50. Second Samuel 21:11-14 puts the passage after the death of Saul, who was alive when David killed Goliath (1 Samuel 17:31-39, 55-58). Second Samuel 21:15-17 indicates that Elhanan killed “Goliath” when David was the king of Israel, not when he was a servant of King Saul.”
Funny how you completely leave out the fact that the Bible was compiled by Catholics (early Christians) working through the Holy Spirit and that it wasn’t until later that Protestants decided on their own to remove 7 books disregarding what God had originally decided should be in the Bible. Update: " The Bible is considered the inspired word of God by the faithful. So you have to wonder: where did it come from? With all the writings floating around the ancient world, who decided which of them rated as sacred enough to be scripture? This question is technically one of canonicity. “Canon” means norm or standard. The term was first applied by St. Athanasius to a collection of Jewish and Christian writings around the year 350. A fourth-century bishop of Alexandria, Egypt, Athanasius was a powerhouse. He would later be named “Doctor of Orthodoxy” for his strong defense against heresies of his time. Athanasius attended the all-important Council of Nicaea, from which we get our Nicene Creed. He was a zealous advocate for the divinity of Jesus in an age before the nature of Jesus was uniformly accepted. For all of these reasons, Athanasius was invested in settling the canon of scripture: which books might be counted as the “Word of God”-and which, at best, were just good words. It would have been helpful to him if the apostles had sat down one dull night in the first century and decided this themselves: “Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are in. Gospels of Thomas and Judas-out!” It would also have been impossible, since many New Testament texts weren’t written until after that first generation of church leaders had died. Also, strange as it may seem, even the Hebrew scriptures we call the Old Testament had yet to be defined by the Jewish community. While we may think of Jesus carrying around a volume of Genesis through Maccabees in his backpack, neither he nor anyone of his time owned such a collection. What hastened the need to settle the biblical canon was simple practicality. As the Christian community gradually separated from its Jewish roots, it was vital to determine which of the many instructive texts scattered around the Mediterranean region would be binding for each group. The rabbis of Judaism fought their own canon skirmishes around the year 100, but some books written before the time of Jesus that didn’t make their final list had already proven useful to Jewish Christians. Heavy hitters among ancient theologians, such as Origen, Athanasius, and Jerome, argued for a shorter canon than Augustine, especially when it came to these Hebrew books. The 27 books Athanasius proposed for the New Testament were not much in dispute and remain standard today. It took the Council of Trent (1545-63) to define the Old Testament canon as inclusive of books that Protestant Reformers removed, including Tobit, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom, the Maccabees, and others. Today’s Bible owes a debt to these many ancient debates" . These Bishops were Catholic. The early church was Catholic Martin Luther was Catholic There would be no protestants without Catholics. In a strange way , your roots are and always have been , Catholic. Protestants do yourself a favor , read the missing books your leaders removed after the bible had been compiled.
We took them out because they dont mention jesus and also talks about purgatory… if purgatory is real then that means not all of our sin is covered and what jesus did is not enough… that makes zero sense
@@Zerr27 ...what???? well that's convenient . So let me get this straight - the bible mentioned purgatory or referred to purgatory but they didn't like that so they said let just take those books out?? Sounds like early age liberalism. How convenient- just take out parts you don't agree with - create your own idea of what heaven is...make yourselves into your own God's. And just so you know , there a more references to purgatory that are in the New Testament .
commissioned St. Jerome, the leading biblical scholar of his day, to produce an acceptable Latin version of the Bible from the various translations then being used.
The first mention of The NT Canon (with 27 books) was in a letter from St. Athanatius (Bishop of Alexandria) in 367. It’s essential to the understanding of this most important process, that we recognize the role which The Early Church played. I would urge you to read the writings of those Church Fathers who you have listed, they were quite Catholic in their beliefs.
It worth reading a few scholarly books on this. 1.The Biblical Canon: Its Origin, Transmission, and Authority LEE MARTIN MCDONALD 2.The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine, Volume 1: The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition (100-600) (The Christian ... of the Development of Christian Doctrine) Jaroslav Pelikan 3.History of the Christian Church, Volume III: Nicene and Post-Nicene Christianity. A.D. 311-600 by Philip Schaff
Very good, but the more poignant question would be, Where are these non-Catholic Christians who gave us the Scriptures? Who were their leaders? Where can I find them today excluding 16th reformers?
The mentioned Church Fathers quoting the Deuterocanon for theology: "Who shall say unto Him, What have you done? Or, Who shall resist the power of His strength? (Wisdom 12:12)" Clement of Rome, First Epistle, Chpt. 27 "When you do good, defer it not, because 'alms delivers from death' (Tobit 4:10)" Polycarp, Epistle to the Philippians, Chpt. 10 "And Jeremiah the prophet has pointed out... saying, 'Look around Jerusalem towards the east, and behold the joy which comes to you from God Himself.' (Baruch 4:36)" Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, Chpt. 35, Section 1 "I produce the prophecy of Solomon... 'Let us lie in wait for the righteous, because he is not for our turn,' (Wisdom 2:1)" Hippolytus, Expository Treatise, Section 9
Why are you ignoring that the council of Hippo which you site regards the 27 books of the New Testament, also lists the deuterocanonical books what you refer to as the apocrypha as being cannon? The holy spirit is not schizophrenic. If he inspired the fathers of the council of Hippo to include the 27 books of the new testament in their list, he also inspired them to in include the deuterocanonical books which indeed they did.
Are you really joking right now??? Wow.. like for real... You are actually saying there was a council of HIPPOS??? Like the animal the Hippo sat down and picked the Bible... way out of line.. so not true
I don’t believe that the council of Hippo was ecumenical, but there is definitely room for investigation as to why they believed the apocrypha to be canonical. Under what basis do you believe the apocrypha to be canonical?
John 7: 37 & 38 was called the scripture by Jesus but was not recognized as part of the cannon. What book was it. And why not included? Jesus Christ pointed it out then why
Why didn't you feel the need to mention that Pope Damascus assembled the council of Rome in 382 which was comprised of the early church fathers who decided on the books to be included in the Canon? . It seems that's quite an important fact worth mentioning...
Scholars generally agree that the Old Testament, the Jewish Canon, was compiled by 70 BC, although the number of books was debated. By the time of the 380 AD there had been at least 200 ‘gospels’ considered. One thing to consider by modern standard though, textual criticism allows us to date the Gospels with reasonable accuracy. I am not qualified to discussed such matters as I am not educated in such specifics. But, certainly, our modern KJV is representative of the Protestant Bible that was finally agreed on. As to the Catholic version I am not educated in. The criteria for choosing the books by the speaker of this video was fairly accurate but had been under debate and discussion for three hundred years. But one extra point. If Jesus or the Apostles quote the Old Testament that authenticates it as reliable. I would be very curious, though, as to what Hebrews and 1’2,3 John were open to debate. 1 John seems to nicely sum up most of Christian doctrine in my opinion. God bless.
No it wasn't. There were multiple Jewish sects in disagreement with each other. Sadduccees only accepted the 5 Books of Moses. Pharisees had disagreements between the schools of Shammai and Hillel (Esther, Proverbs, Song of Songs, Ecclesiastes, Ezekiel were rejected by Hillel). We also had the Essenes that had Tobit, Ben Sira & Epistle of Jeremiah with 1 Enoch (Chapters 1 - 36) and the book of Jubilees. Then you also had Hellenistic Jews that had a 24 book cannon opposed to 22 book cannon (with Tobit & Judith). Flavius Josephus in his writings in ~96 AD rejected the Books of Minor Prophets, Song of Songs & Ecclesiastes. There are no quotes from the books of Isaiah & Ezekiel calling into question of whether he accepted these books. To make it even worse is Josephus quotes from 1 Esdras and a version of Nehemiah that we no longer have in existance. It wasn't until Rabbi Akiva in 130 AD where an attempt was made to standardize the Jewish Tanak in response to the Christians. In the Babylonian Talmud they even mention they removed books from their bible but at the same time quote the Book of Ben Sira (Wisdom of Sirach) as sacred scripture 3 times. This was a very slow process as when Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate in between 390 - 407 AD in Bethlehem the Hebrew source text conflicts with what we have today in the Hebrew Masoretic Text and agrees with the Dead Sea Scroll & Septuagint text. Additionally the Samaritan Pentateuch has over 6000 differences with the Hebrew text (4000 being spelling of names etc.) but the remaining 2000 in agreement with the Septuagint text used by the early Christians and still used by the Eastern Orthodox Chruch to this day. The Catholic Church confirmed their 73 book cannon at the Council of Rome 382. In fact the earliest codexes we have Vaticanus (300), Sinaiticus (350) & Alexandrinus (400 AD) all have the Deuterocannon in them.
I just watched in the video that explained how it took over 2000 years for our Bible to become what it is today and that depends on what religion you are in
Just look at the book of Isaiah alone, that book is 66 chapters and split perfectly of God’s judgment vs His grace just like how the Bible is structured with 66 books and split just the same. I don’t believe in coincidences, God surely brought what needed to be brought, together.
No Christian ever used a 66 book Bible until much later after the Reformation. Are you saying that God took more than 1500 years “to bring together what needed to be brought together”?
What they mean is that the words were written down long before somebody divided it up into chapters by adding the numbers, in order to make it much easier to refer to certain passages.
God never cannoned any books in the NT or OT either! For if he had; there wouldn't be differences! IE: the first KJV bible in 1611 AD called the "Original"; had 80 books. And it was said, "This bible is the only one; that is inspired by God!". Yet in 1885 AD, this KJV threw 14 books out. Now it's only 66 books. They call it the "Authorized" KJV. And they said the same thing! How sad, because in... ...1973 they changed that KJV into a NKJV ("New King James Version"). And that KJV has over millions of words; that they changed. They are called the "Elizabethen" words. Where you is "ye", your is "thy", among is "amongst" and believe is "believeth", etc!. And on and on and on. In every book in the bible, no less. Plus, they corrected many translation errors that the Bible Scholars found. And they say that the NKJV was inspired by God. Yet the NIV and NASB bibles; are said; to be the most accurately translated, ever in history. Where the NASB was translated "word by word". But the NIV was translated "phrase by phrase"! So I ask any wise Christian. "did God inspire this mess? Huh? So Silly. That means; that the ONLY place one can go; to get the pure truths (voided of any errors and/or fallibilities); is to close your bible. Then get on your knees and ask Jesus to give you: "Wisdom, Understanding and the Truth". For He is the ONLY one. that is "Inerrant" and "Infallible"! Then and only then, open your bible(s). And you will see things; that you will believe now; that you never believed in the yrs back. Believe it or not. It took me 75 yrs to learn this. And the last 16 yrs; is the most joyful of my life, I have ever had. Praise Jesus' Holy Name.
It’s called “Canonization”. God never Canonized any books ( for example). A canon is a standard that is accepted to be authoritative by a group. In this case, The Church. To “Cannon”, would be to shoot a giant gun.
Also if it was God alone on who determined canon, why do you follow Luther’s take on the canon? And why do you believe the Jews take on the canon? These are but mere men.
What made those MEN more holy and directly God inspired than the Christians of today who are able to objectively comprehend the unadulterated word of God and hear HIS new instructions even today? The Holy Spirit had laid upon my heart to study the original texts and comprehend what's being transmitted. Not extra-biblically but extra-indictrinationally!
The Christians of today don't even know their history. Do you really believe that the liturgy celebrated by the early Christians was this 'glory and praise' nonsense of the modern era. Read the Didache, written in the latter part of the 1st century.
Ttwo things make them more reliable than you: 1. They met the Apostles in person. That means they are more credible in interpreting the writings of those people than you are, a random person 2000 years later. 2. The early church believed, based on what they learned in-person from the apostles, that the Holy Spirit guides gathered Christians (councils) to the right conclusions. Thus the Church agreed to follow the consensus of the councils. This extends also from point #1.
You do not have the original texts. No one does. Further, you give me no reason to think that your "comprehensions" are true. You could be in error, just like you would say everyone who disagrees with you on scripture is in error.
...not to mention that there was an established Church with very clear teachings, baptismal regeneration, Holy Eucharist, hierarchy of bishops, priest, deacons. This would be comparable to those fathers of the nation like Jefferson, Franklin, etc. They could comment and live the Constitution in the same manner that the early Christians could live the Gospels, apply them in real life and not theorize about them.
Correction please. The first canon was Marcion's Christian Bible in 144 CE. That included one gospel (known as 'The Gospel of the Lord') plus ten letters of Paul. Marcion did not recognise Matthew, Mark Luke and John nor the non-Pauline writings. He believed they were all influenced or corrupted by Jewish converts. Marcion rejected the Hebrew canon.
The canon is NOT a list of books. If that were the case then we automatically reject an epistle of Paul, if someone could authenticate its discovery. For example: In the Book of Colossians it says this: Col. 4:16 - And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea. What if we found that epistle or a first century copy? Should we keep it out of the New Testament because it's not on a list somewhere? I, for one, would be happy to read another letter from Paul to a church. Knowing Paul, it would be more of the same information with a slightly different way of saying it, perhaps. The canon is in concrete. It exists outside any magic list or ecclesiastical authority. The sky is not blue because someone said, "The sky is blue." No. The sky is blue because its blue whether anybody declares it blue or not. The canon is fixed but the delivery method is changeable. As in the above example, a new letter could be added to the New Testament without affecting the canon. Personally, I love the Book of Wisdom from the Catholic apocrypha. I would love to see it added to the bible because it is totally canonical. The canon can be determined on an individual basis when you know the whole story - the lore. Islam teaches that Abraham and Ishmael went to Mecca and destroyed all the idols there. That story breaks canon. How do I know that? Because I know the lore. D.C. released a movie that showed Wonder Woman lassoing a bad guy and when she did, he immediately started telling everything he knew without prompting. Fans of the D.C. comics knew immediately, "That's not how Wonder Woman's Golden Lasso works!" The movie BROKE CANON. We don't know what canon is but we can sense when canon is broken. If someone said that Jesus got into His Toyota and drove off, we'd suspect that that story was probably not true. We know when canon is broken. The worship of angels, Mary, and other super-holy people breaks canon. Catholicism breaks canon. We know it because we know the lore. We don't need a magician in a robe to tell us what is and what is not canon. All we need to do it read what's there in a logical way. It's as easy and as hard as that.
the bible does say that one beast rises out of the bottomless pit and goes into perdition or a state of eternal damnation much like the Catholics who left off the worship of God and choose to worship Mary and the saints instead of God
@NevetsWC1134 that's bull and you know it. For if they worshipped God they would also obey His commandments. Catholics ignore God's commands in just about everything. They wouldn't even allow you to read the Bible without a priest less God speak to you through the written word
Well Luther took out the deuterocanon so actually that’s exactly what he was saying. Luther wanted to take James and 2 Peter out as well. Thank God he didn’t butcher the New Testament
@@roshankurien203 How odd that one man wanted to be The Church and take out books from The Bible. And his German Bible added the word "alone" to the word faith in Romans. Short term gain; this dishonesty has caused people to rightfully criticize him and ask the question: Where does the Bible say faith alone?
Yeah God alone chose the books of the Bible. But not in a vacuum, he used the church as an instrument through the council, Hippo Rome and Carthage. It was the Bishops of Rome who presided it. It’s public knowledge
He didn't use any specific institution. He used early Christians, councils, the very intern evidence of the Bible, but not a specific institution that can be considered what the RCC is today. Blessings.
@@Maranatha99 Pope Damesus and Pope Galesius were publicly declared Popes.. just wiki Damasus list and Galasian decree.. it’s the same canon of scripture New and old finally declared infallibly in Trent. As I said just wiki it. It’s public knowledge
@@j.dieason7527 haha.. yeah Wikipedia. That’s how public and common knowledge it is.. or you can actually just take the references used in Wikipedia.. But if you have doubts on Wikipedia you can access any book on church history : 1. The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine, Volume 1: The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition (100-600) (The Christian ... of the Development of Christian Doctrine) Jaroslav Pelikan 2.History of the Christian Church, Volume III: Nicene and Post-Nicene Christianity. A.D. 311-600 by Philip Schaff 3.The Biblical Canon: Its Origin, Transmission, and Authority LEE MARTIN MCDONALD Pick one buy it read it buddy. Don’t trust me test me. Go ahead. All of those authors are Protestant. But to be honest Pelikan became Orthodox..
The canon of the Hebrew Scriptures was established by the end of the fifth century B.C.E. The skilled scribe and inspired Bible writer Ezra began the work, and it was completed by Nehemiah. (Ezra 7:6)The writing of the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament) was completed during the time that the gifts of the spirit were operative on Christ’s followers. (John 14:26) Some Christians had the gift of “discernment of inspired expressions.” (1 Corinthians 12:10) Thus, they could, without referring the matter to a supposed church council, determine which of the letters the congregation received were inspired of God. With the death of John, the last apostle, this reliable chain of divinely inspired men came to an end. Therefore, with the book of Revelation, John’s Gospel, and his three letter, the Bible canon was closed! The testimony of later, noninspired writers is valuable only as an acknowledgement of the Bible canon, which God’s spirit had guided authorized!
Awe how sweet not acknowledging that it was the Catholic Bishops and Orthodox Bishops who were your "early Christians" that God and the Holy Spirit inspired and aided in putting the Bible together then you probably won't mention how Martin Luther on his own when forming the protestant church over 1000 years later decided oh we don't need those seven. But it's cute how you leave that out.
Yes they were. Ignatius lived from around A.D. 35 to 107. He was the third bishop of Antioch and tradition records that he was a disciple of the apostle John (cf. The Maryrdom of Ignatius). During the reign of Emperor Trajan, he was taken to Rome and suffered martyrdom there. Along the way he wrote seven letters-one to St. Polycarp of Smyrna, and six others to various churches. See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is administered either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. -Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ch 8 early-Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, who has written, “As regards `Catholic,’ its original meaning was `universal’ or `general’ … As applied to the Church, its primary significance was to underline its universality as opposed to the local character of the individual congregations. Very quickly, however, in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations. . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church” (J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines, 5th ed. [San Francisco: Harper, 1978], 190f).
Yes.. Rylands Papyrus 470 dated 250AD, “Beneath thy compassion, we take refuge, O Mother of God: do not despise our petitions in time of trouble, but rescue us from dangers,only pure one, only blessed one..”
@@roshankurien203 so you never got in touch with God whom the bible is all about? AND BECAUSE OF YOUR REBELLION AGAINST THE MOST HIGH you will go to hell .
@roshankurien203 the scripture says that beast ie catholicism came out of the bottomless pit and went into perdition. It started out with the real gospel but went back into false religion. Catholicism is the beast of revelation 17. There is no salvation in the catholic church.
Well they weren't called Catholics just as they weren't called Presbyterians or Lutherans etc etc. But truth in fact is that the Catholic church is the ONLY church founded by Christ . All other denominations are founded by man. Every Priest in the Catholic church can trace his priestly lineage back to the Apostles who then got theirs from Christ . That's a big deal whether you understand it or not. Your church can not claim this. Christ chose these apostles and gave them authority to grow and care for the church in His name . Every day all over the world...every day...the Catholic Church has service and celebrates passover or the Eucharist . They do this because this is the new covenant Jesus initiated with us . I probably can't convince you of this BUt of you desire the Truth - go to the author of Truth and ask Him yourself.
Read about st Ignatius of Antioch and his letters. He was among the early church to compile the Canon and the first one to use the word "Catholic" in greek. You guys believe ignorantly what you want to believe.
@@mmmz811actually its not the catholic church its the orthodox that is the ONLY church and THE church, the catholics invented new ideas of papal supremacy and infallibility that is nowhere found before, they became worldly and legalistic, the devil used this tendency in the roman mentality, its no surprise the reformation came out of catholicism
So name them by century, please. How about Ignatius of Antioch, Iraeneus of Lyons, for example? How about Justin Martyr. How about Clement of Rome, 2nd century? Go ahead, please.
Saint Jerome is worthy of his title of sainthood for his work with Hebrew rabbis and Greek monks to translate the Torah, the Septuagint into the bible collection of today.❤
Saints can only be chosen by God not by men. Do you not know that only God knows the hearts of men. Jesus taught that men have evil thoughts continually and even referred to His disciples as evil in Matthew 7. The blind arrogance of the catholic church is revealed to the wise through scripture and The Holy Spirit.
In order for you to believe that one must ignore Mark 7: 20-23. Jesus knows the hearts of men and the catholic church chooses to ignore His teachings. No man is worthy to designate a saint.
Thank you for this video. But one can only say that God decided the books that belong in the Bible based on the cannon they ascribe to. If Catholics say that God decided, and if Protestants said that God decided, and Ethiopians said that God decided, then someone is wrong. We have to stick with the facts. Dogmatic statements like “God decided what books belong” only make people confused.
Some of what was said did come across as an assertion rather than a well supported logical conclusion. It seems to me the most convincing argument that God used fallible people to gather His Scriptures is He gave it to fallible people to write it down in the first place. The writing down was the more difficult deed. It does take faith to believe He is in ultimate control of His word at all times.
Faith is never blind nor without reason. Trusting in the Bible is like when we are a child with our parents. First it’s a given, we don’t have much doubt. We don’t even see a need to doubt them if our parents are good and kind. But then we need to see the world for ourselves and grow in our own understanding of what is right and truth. We put what we see to the test, (even if it is an annoyance to our good yet still fallible parents). As we mature we will know by this experience what is good and trustworthy not just because we were taught by our parents. That faith in our parents was tempered by living proof and critical thinking. The Bible speaks for itself. History unfolds to show this, it is not to be chased or trimmed to prove the Bible. It is an excellent venture to test the Bible in all ways. What is good and trustworthy will always stand when our means of testing are right and true and undertaken with integrity. Just start with what is long proven trustworthy, even if it’s with a few verses, then work outward from there. The Bible holds its integrity faithfully. It will remain under the heaviest of scrutiny as it should. This includes the cannon of the Bible.
I didn't understand what he meant by God chose the canon of scripture 🤔 didn't a church call the council by a bishop of Rome? Well if God worked through his church then the RCC is christ church right!! Of course just using good ol logic😌
Council of hippo( AD 393) canonical, Council of Carthage (AD 397) affirmed the 27 books as authoritative, God worked through his church Matthew 16:18 Jesus has only one church Ephesians 4:1-6👆 (not many denominations) christ head of the church Ephesians 1:21-23 built upon the foundation of his apostles Ephesians 2:19-22....this is how christ church ought to picture Acts 1:12-14 with Mary the new Ark.👉Acts 2:42 notice how it was tradition first, then almost 400 after the canon was completed 😉1timothy 3:14-16 church is the pillar of truth, thank you God😇
I disagree, the church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head. Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” The body of Christ is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ from the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) until Christ’s return. Biblically, we may regard the church in two ways, as the universal church or as the local church. When it comes to Salvation, the truth is a simple one, Salvation is through Grace by Faith in the work of Jesus Christ that was done in the Cross, it is not by works, so that no one can boast about it in the presence of God, read Ephesians 2:8-10 =)
@Brenoskywalker77 Jesus is head of his church, no one is discarding that fact, we agree no dispute there, you kinda veered of the topic! Jesus is the capstone, ephesians 2: 20-22 but the church is built upon the apostles which he left in charge (a hierarchy) please read Matthew 16:18 the rest of the post...in regards to ephesians 2: 8-10 Paul is talking about the (mosaic Law) which the pharisee imposed on the Hebrews, galatians 5:1-6 (👈 this is what Paul is writing about when he mentions works) -not to be confused with good deeds-😇that is why Jesus saved us from our transgressions of sin by grace, his grace is not of our working its a gift not of ourselves, but we must obey God otherwise we to might be cut of 👉 (warning to believers) Roman's 11:22...
The Bible tells us at Romans 3:2 that God entrusted the Jews with God’s sacred pronouncements. Jesus also alluded to the Jews’ being entrusted with God’s word of salvation and TRUE WORSHIP when he said: “Salvation begins with the Jews.” (John 4:22) Paul was confirming that ONLY the Jews were entrusted with writing the Hebrew-Aramaic portion of the Scriptures, as well as the Christian Greek Scriptures which were composed by the Jewish disciples of Jesus. So, the Jews were custodians of Scriptural knowledge, and they were the ones responsible for composing the books of the ENTIRE BIBLE CANON! Also, 1 Corinthians 12:10 tells us that God gave some Christians the gift of “discernment of inspired expressions.” That gift included the ability to discern whether an expression was inspired of God or if it originated from some other source. This also helped to discern which letters and writings should be circulated among the congregations and to discern which would become part of the Bible canon. We can be sure that the process of selecting which books to include in the Bible canon was guided by God’s HOLY SPIRIT! No supposed church council was ever needed to determine which letters were inspired of God. With the death of John, the last apostle, this reliable chain of divinely inspired men came to an end. With the book of Revelation, John’s Gospel, and his three letters, the Bible canon was closed!
450 BC - Tanach (Tanahk). 24 books, 3 sections 300-100BC - Septuagint (contains WoS, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, 1,2 Maccabees, Ecclesiasticus) 85 - Marcion of Sinope attempts a canon. much hearesy in his ideology, ex-commed from early church. forced church to respond with a canon. 155 - Polycarp’s letter (to the Philippians) indicates that the early church already considered the Gospels, Acts, and the Epistles as inspired Scripture. 180 - Muratorian Canon. 22 of 27 books. did not include Hebrews, James, Peter 1 & 2, 2 John 3 John, it did include Apocalypse of Peter and Wisdom of Solomon. 313 - Christianity Decriminalized by Constantine. 313 - Eusebius disputes James. 2 Peter, 2&3 John, Jude, Revelation. 336 - Council of Laodicea affirmed 26 NT books. Rejected Revelation 367 - Athanasius makes list of accepted 27 books 384/382 - (Council of Rome ) St. Jerome did not want to include additional books, compelled by church to include them anyway 393 - Synod of Hippo (Hippo Canon) 27 book NT, Recognized by early church. New 33 book + OT canon. 1st "Official" church canon. Regional canons exist. 397 - Counsel of Carthage - Hippo canon confirmed and binding by the church 1054 - Great schism 1522 - Martin Luther canon moved OT (WoS, Ecclesiasticus, Judith, Tobit, Baruch, Maccabees) books to Apocrypha. Considered Hebrews, James, Jude, Revelation as disputed 1545 - Council of Trent. Added back books Luther removed and gave them new title "Deuterocanonical" 1820s - Paper cost increases lead to publishers removing Deuterocanonical books. 73 to 66 books.
I believe it was actually the emperor that called the councils. As far as I am aware, none of the first 7 ecumenical councils were called by the pope of Rome.
@@johngermain3076 Apologies, I was trying to avoid a more pointed tone. All of the first 7 ecumenical councils were emphatically, without question or qualification called by the emperors of the time. That's not in any way an attempt to diminish or downgrade their importance. I fully acknowledge and submit to their authority as binding upon the Church.
@@feeble_stirrings You mean that the non-born again emperors called the councils that gave authentication and approval to the canons that God inspired? Am choking here. Does this not suggests that the emperors had something to do with collating the books, determining them or influencing how they were determined? May we know the names of the emperors of 7 councils spanning hundreds of years, and other players that worked with God, please? Again, So who, I want names, decided on the pillars: Authority, Ecclesiastical usage, inspiration, and Apostolicity? Please, don't close your heart to the truth. God loves
It’s because it leaves out all actual history and just makes you go, okay I guess that makes sense. He leaves you with half truths and then says trust God.
i would call that a "presupposition": we know gd chose the canon because it is what we ended up with. by this reasoning, then, hasn't gd also allowed the choosing of the writings of the koran, the book of mormon, the vedas, the tripitaka, etc., afterall, if they exists, they too, are his will. and since there is only one gd then everything is chosen by him because it now exists?? i'm not sure i'm comfortable with where this necessarily goes. because you will reject these "other" writings because you believe they are wrong, when they exist no differently than the existence of the bible.
Hello, many are committing terrifying things right now, specially when they think no one sees them. Psalms 52(DRB) 52:4. All have gone aside, they are become unprofitable toegther, there is none that doth good, no not one.
The canon of the Bible was closed by the early universal (catholic) Church between AD 325 and AD451. The canon include the 27 NT books and 73 OT books. This canon continues to serve today, except that in early 1500’s , some Church protesters opted to remove 7 books from the OT. The Council of Trent reaffirmed the canon following the heresy of the protesters. Protestants refer to these books as apocrypha while Catholics refer to these as Deuterocanonical. Strange how one canon served the Church for around 1100 years as God inspired, yet Protestant men became uninspired by 7 books? And don’t confuse the argument with the Jewish Bible settled in around AD 100, as the 7 books were translated from the existing Hebrew scrolls as the Septuigent around 100BC.
What were the books GOD inspired? Considering a number of book were REMOVED from the bible by men who decided they didn't fit. Was it God who inspired that action also. Keeping in mind that Prominent Figures in the Bible made REFERENCE to scriptures that are not in the bible but can be found in the banned books. Who banned the books and why?
God alone picked the canon version? Please tell me how he did that? Was it through sinful, mistake driven men? Remember, all of these accounts were stories. Then written down with many years passing in between. Then different authors wrote these accounts down all at different times and places. Fast forward, then they were selected by the “church” based off which one aligned the best and stayed with the narrative. My biggest question, if god wanted us to have an accurate account, he could have made it himself? Like he did scribed in stone for the 10 commandments. Boom, absolute facts with no discrepancies. Or, why didn’t Jesus make a book? He turn water into wine. He brought people back from the dead. He walked on water. He died and came back alive and stated teleporting through walls and stuff. Why not snap his fingers and go “here’s a book of all accounts that truly comes from me.” Let me guess, god works in mysterious ways.
That was a ridiculous statement but true to RCC form that the RCC is the only authority & GOD the only true HOLY FATHER & our "only" mediator Jesus Christ not Mary take backseat. If you have not come to the faith in the Word & that it says it is GOD inspired, GOD breathed & alive then you couldn't & wouldn't believe a GOD that created all things would not have anything to do with the Word we have today. Imagine bring at the judgement seat & being condemned because you didn't do all your homework trying to figure out what was true & what was not, you didn't Google it enough. Nope, if you can't put your faith in GOD alone & HIS Word but only the RCC & it's evil dark history up to this very moment of pedifilia then you can't be helped
You make the assumption that it was God who determined what books were to be in the bible and God "imparting to His followers" but that statement is pretty much meaningless since there is no empirical evidence to prove that statement.
I have asked this question several times. In Leviticus 16, on the day of atonement 2 activities are conducted sin offering and sending goat in the desert. On the cross Jesus became our sin offering as we know and celebrate. But where did he became our goat of departure? The New Testament is silent about that. So where did he?
Thank you so much for this. I get tired of daily, if not more frequent, comments from certain group(s) within Christianity about who decided the contents of the Bible. Now I'll will add this video to any discussions, or actually just point to this video without discussing, to highlight that it was not humans or meetings that decided but GOD alone. Again, thank you.
Good video. However, the Catholic Church has always maintained that it was God who inspired the Canon, but that he used men to do so. These men cannot be ignored when the facts are presented, just as Moses as a prophet and other great prophets cannot be ignored when the prophecy of scripture are presented. It is conspiratorial to conclude that the church had nothing to do with it. God's actions on earth in the crimson thread of salvation came through the messages of different prophets and in many ways (Hebrews1:1). Those prophets are known in scripture, just as those who were part of selecting and determining the canons, inspired by the Holy Spirit, are known. I encourage us to read the facts of history. To not recognise them because we do not agree with the Catholic Church, is prejudicial and presentation of incomplete truth. I have read about the church fathers, and know their roles in the formulation of the canons. Please, read without presuppositions.
@@bodenore With one post you have taken this beyond the remit of this video so I am going to keep this short and sweet. Please don't presuppose that RC theology, tradition, and what the RCC "maintains" as truth, is actually reality.
@@ST-ov8cm because you tell everyone else to "Please, read without presuppositions." so I am telling you to follow your own advice. The evidence against Roman (Latin Rite) Catholicism is beyond circumstantial. People who tell others how to think but are unwilling to follow their own advice are not worth more than a few minutes of anyone else's time. Your time with me is up.
so what about the FAMINE of the WORD in Amos, or the fact GOD tells people to look and see that the SCRIBE worked FALSE BOOKS in Jer 8:8. Or what about when Messiah said the PHARISEES THOUGHT they found eternal life in the recordings but were FUSING to come to him>> John 5:39-43. Or what about when Messiah said the ones that had the law, were REFUSING It and HIDING it - Luke 11:52. What about all the contradictions?? No man was ALLOWED to publish a corruption b/c GOD wants us to DIG FOR HIM and SEEK HIS WORD like a HIDDEN BURIED TREASURE - mat 13:44. But FEW will FIND it - May 7:14.. this why we must ASK SEEK KNOCK - Mat 7:7
The Catholic Church collected, compiled, canonized,named, and declared that the bible is an inspired word of God 😎 The canon of the bible is 73 books not 66 😎👈
Wasn't it the knights templar the ones who went around and did this destruction of all natives and any one that went against their orders? Maybe how all got there? Just saying. Much Love Brother!! Catching up on Videos! Love to you and shamus! ❤
Funny how you give credit to St Ignatius of Antioch, while your site has viewpoints on the Eucharist that he'd consider to be absolutely heretical. Do you know more than someone who directly helped compile the Bible?
The speaker danced around the councils at Rome, Hippo and Carthage. The was finally validated at the Council of Carthage in 397. It was the Catholic Church that gave the world the bible. He also didn’t mention that the Geneva and King James when first published in 1565 and 1611 respectively contained 80 books each. In 1881the Geneva bible deleted 14 books. In 1885 the King James bible deleted the same 14 books. These actions contradict Revelation 22:18-19 which states that no books will be added or deleted. The Catholic bible had 73 books in its bible in 397 and today it has the same 73 books, no additions or deletions!!!!
The bitter enemies of the Catholic Church will tie themselves in intricate knots rather than admit that their churches were created by men whose names we know.
Why would we continue to follow the Jews who rejected Christ when they decided to pare down the Old Testament 200+ years after the resurrection and descent of the Holy Spirit, which the Lord promised would guide the CHURCH into all truth?
Secular and RC History both concur, that the Bible was canonized by a counsel of churches that convened in 3-400 AD. It was at this counsel that the Roman Catholic Church was established as well.
Is the Catholic Church Jesus’ original church❓ The quotes provided below are historical facts in reference to our early church which existed prior to Romes adoption of Christianity in 313 A.D. Church: 📖"Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” [St. Ignatius of Antioch - Letter to the Smyrneans 8 (c. A.D. 110)] Bishop, Priest & Deacon: 📖“Since, then, I have had the privilege of seeing you, through Damas your most worthy bishop, and through your worthy presbyters Bassus and Apollonius, and through my fellow-servant the deacon Sotio, whose friendship may I ever enjoy, because he is subject to the bishop as to the grace of God, and to the presbytery as to the law of Jesus Christ [St. Ignatius of Antioch- Letter to the Magnesians 2 (c. A.D. 110)]. Eucharist: 📖“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ, which have come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God... They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, Ash that suffered for our sins and that the Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.” [St. Ignatius of Antioch - Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6-7 (c. A.D. 110)]. Scripture: 📖“[W]hoever perverts the sayings of the Lord for his own desires, and says that there is neither resurrection nor judgment, is the firstborn of Satan. Let us leave the foolishness and the false teaching of the crowd and turn back to the word that was delivered to us in the beginning.” [St. Polycrap of Smyrna - Letter to the Philippians 7 (c. A.D. 135)]. Sunday: 📖“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead.” [St. Justin Martyr - First Apology 67 (c. A.D. 151)]. Actions/Works: 📖“We have learned from the prophets, and we believe it is true, that punishments, and chastisements, and good rewards, are rendered according to the merit of each man's actions. If it is not so, then all things happen by fate, and nothing is in our own power. If it is fated that this man be good, and this other evil, the former is not meritorious nor the latter blameworthy [St. Justin Martyr - First Apology 43 (c. A.D. 151)]. Apostolic Succession: 📖“It is within the power of all, in every church, who may wish to see the truth, to contemplate clearly the Tradition of the apostles manifested throughout the whole world; and we are in a position to reckon up those who were instituted bishops in the churches by the apostles, and [to demonstrate] the succession of these men to our own times; those who neither taught nor knew anything these [heretics] rave about.” [St. Irenaeus of Lyons - Against Heresies 3:3:1 (c. A.D. 189)] Baptism: 📖“The children shall be baptized first. All the children who can answer for themselves, let them answer. If there are any children who cannot answer for themselves, let their parents answer for them, or someone else from their family.” [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 21 (c. A.D. 215)]. Confession: 📖“After this, one of the bishops present, at the request of all, laying his hand on him who is ordained bishop, shall pray this way: O God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. pour forth the power that is from you, of "the princely Spirit' that you delivered to your beloved Child, Jesus Christ, and that he bestowed on your holy apostles, who established the Church that hallows you everywhere, for the endless glory and praise of your name. Father, "who knows the hearts [of all]” grant this servant, who you have chosen for the episcopate, to feed your holy flock and serve as your high priest blamelessly night and day, and unceasingly turn away wrath from your face and offer to you the gifts of the holy Church. And that by the high priestly Spirit he may have authority "to forgive sins" according to your command.” [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 2-3 (c. A.D. 215)]. Confirmation: 📖“The bishop will then lay his hand upon them, invoking, "Lord God, you who have made these worthy of the removal of sins through the bath of regeneration, make them worthy to be filled with your Holy Spirit, grant to them your grace, that they might serve you according to your will, for to you is the glory, Father and Son with the Holy Spirit, in the holy Church, now and throughout the ages of the ages. Amen." After this he pours the oil into his hand, and laying his hand on each of their heads, says, "I anoint you with holy oil in God the Father Almighty, and Christ Jesus, and the Holy Spirit." Then, after sealing each of them on the forehead, he shall give them the kiss of peace and say, "The Lord be with you." And the one who has been baptized shall say, "And with your spirit." So shall he do to each one [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 21-22 (c. A.D. 215). Peter’s Authority: 📖“The Lord says to Peter: "I say to you,' he says, “that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven. [Mt 16:18-19]. On him he builds the Church, and commands him to feed the sheep [Jn 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed the others were also what Peter was [apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, by which it is made clear that there is one Church and one chair.... If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he think that he holds the faith? If he deserts the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he be confident that he is in the Church?.” [St. Cyprian of Carthage - Unity of the Catholic Church 4; first edition (Treatise 1:4) (A.D. 251)]. These few topics (but a glimpse) were not only discussed but settled BEFORE Rome adopted Christianity (The Catholic Church) and eventually became The Roman Catholic Church as it also adopted its name after 313 A.D. Is the Catholic Church Jesus’ original church❓Yes❗️ Does this excuse all its mistakes and sins from the record❓Of course not❗️As Christians, we are called to hold the church accountable, not leave it and let evil flourish within it. This refusal of accountability within every Christian has led to over 40,000 diferente Christian denominations and the ignorance which has flourished from it. 🕊️“This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ. Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church.” Ephesians 4:13-15 We are called by God to unite! What better church to do it under than the one he started.
Yes Jesus started the catholic (meaning universal) church of which He Himself is the head and the true born again Spirit filled believers is the body. Later the Romans hijacked true Christianity, mixed it with their pagan beliefs and still pretend to be the original... Don't confuse the original catholic church with the Roman Catholic church.
@@andrevisser7542 If you can, please read your Bible or take some college courses in reference to Christianity but I’ll try to help as well: Jesus’ followers within the early 2nd century known as “followers of the way” became known as Christians in the city of Antioch. These early Christians who administered the first structured church established by the Apostles came to be known as the Early Church Fathers, a church that Ignatius of Antioch (early church father) referred to as the Catholic Church 300 years prior to Rome’s adoption of Christianity & it’s name Catholic. All Gnostic sects which differed from the early church fathers teachings began to rise in popularity in the late 2nd century among Jewish and early “christians”, these sects did not become official until the 3rd century, after the Apostles had already established a structured church administered by the early church fathers and due to their contradictions to who Jesus was, were rejected by the majority of Christians long before Rome’s adoption of Christianity. Rome adopted not only Christianity but its church name Catholic in 313 A.D. and became the Roman Catholic Church which was accepted by both the east & west and paved the way for Christianity’s expansion. The Holy Spirit picked the Catholic Church to decide which books it deemed inspired. The Bible many quote and read was compiled by the Catholic Church and accepted by All Christians for centuries. The schism of 1054 created by Catholics at the time led to the formation of the Orthodox Church. Then, in the 16th century, the Protestant reformation happen which was created by Catholics at the time. This reformation began with a single Catholic priest named Martin Luther who didn’t have anyone’s support at the time and it was only later after he had established a large following and began to generate revenue to start his own churches that he gained support from others Catholic priests. These ex Catholics then decided to remove 7 books from the original Bible that had already been accepted by all Christians, a removal prohibited by scripture. The Historical & Biblical illiteracy many freely demonstrate is the reason why this type of ignorance continues to devour Jesus’ church and the main reason why we now have over 40,000 different Christians denominations.
@@markcornelius8802 Did Jesus ask the Apostles to create a new church separate from the Jewish community❓ 🕊️“Now I say to you that you are Peter (which means ‘rock’), and upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it. And I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you forbid on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven.” Matthew 16:18-19 Why did Jesus ask the Apostles to create a new church❓ 🕊️“The people in Jerusalem and their leaders did not recognize Jesus as the one the prophets had spoken about. Instead, they condemned him, and in doing this they fulfilled the prophets’ words that are read every Sabbath.” Acts of the Apostles 13:27
@@andrevisser7542 Separate from the historical facts I’ve provided, quotes from the early church fathers along with scripture also prove that the Catholic Church is the true church of our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ. ---Church--- 📖“Then Barnabas went on to Tarsus to look for Saul. When he found him, he brought him back to Antioch. Both of them stayed there with the church for a full year, teaching large crowds of people. (It was at Antioch that the believers were first called Christians).” Acts of the Apostles 11:25-26 📖“In fact, James, Peter, and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews.” Galatians 2:9 ---Peter--- 📖“Now I say to you that you are Peter (which means ‘rock’), and upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it. And I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you forbid on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven.” Matthew 16:18-19 📖“After breakfast Jesus asked Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?” “Yes, Lord,” Peter replied, “you know I love you.” “Then feed my lambs,” Jesus told him. Jesus repeated the question: “Simon son of John, do you love me?” “Yes, Lord,” Peter said, “you know I love you.” “Then take care of my sheep,” Jesus said. A third time he asked him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt that Jesus asked the question a third time. He said, “Lord, you know everything. You know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Then feed my sheep.” John 21:15-17 ---Eucharist--- - Jesus 📖“Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” John 6:49-58 - Apostles 📖“You are reasonable people. Decide for yourselves if what I am saying is true. When we bless the cup at the Lord’s Table, aren’t we sharing in the blood of Christ? And when we break the bread, aren’t we sharing in the body of Christ? And though we are many, we all eat from one loaf of bread, showing that we are one body.” 1 Corinthians 10:15-17 ---Scripture--- 📖“And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.” Revelation 22:18-19 ---Sunday--- 📖“On the first day of the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord’s Supper. Paul was preaching to them, and since he was leaving the next day, he kept talking until midnight.” Acts of the Apostles 20:7 ---Works--- Jesus: 📖“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’ “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’ “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’ “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’ “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.” Matthew 25:34-46 📖“Wake up! Strengthen what little remains, for even what is left is almost dead. I find that your actions do not meet the requirements of my God.”Revelation 3:2 ---Succession--- - Jesus 📖“I have given you an example to follow. Do as I have done to you. I tell you the truth, slaves are not greater than their master. Nor is the messenger more important than the one who sends the message. Now that you know these things, God will bless you for doing them.” John 13:15-17 - Apostles 📖“Dear brothers and sisters, pattern your lives after mine, and learn from those who follow our example.” Philippians 3:17 📖“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” 2 Thessalonians 2:15 📖“And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us.” 2 Thessalonians 3:6 --Baptism & Confirmation-- 📖“Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.” John 3:5 📖“Let us go forward, then, to mature teaching and leave behind us the first lessons of the Christian message. We should not lay again the foundation of turning away from useless works and believing in God; of the teaching about baptisms and the laying on of hands; of the resurrection of the dead and the eternal judgement.” Hebrews 6:1-2 📖“For the Holy Spirit had not yet come down on any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.” Acts 8:16-17 ---Confession--- - Jesus 📖“Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” John 20:21-23 - Apostles 📖“When you forgive this man, I forgive him, too. And when I forgive whatever needs to be forgiven, I do so with Christ’s authority for your benefit, so that Satan will not outsmart us. For we are familiar with his evil schemes.” 2 Corinthians 2:10-11 ---Antioch--- Followers of Jesus were first called Christians in Antioch and it was in Antioch that the word Catholic was first used to described Jesus’ earliest church, 300 years before Rome adopted Christianity! A church that was already established prior to both of those taking place, a church that Paul himself preached from, often visiting it and it was even there were he corrected Peter. Antioch was of such importance within early Christianity that Prophets and teachers were among its members as well. Paul Corrects Peter: 📖“But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong.” Galatians 2:11 Prophets & Teachers: 📖“Among the prophets and teachers of the church at Antioch of Syria were Barnabas, Simeon (called “the black man”), Lucius (from Cyrene), Manaen (the childhood companion of King Herod Antipas), and Saul.”Acts of the Apostles 13:1 Church already established: 📖“Finally, they returned by ship to Antioch of Syria, where their journey had begun. The believers there had entrusted them to the grace of God to do the work they had now completed. Upon arriving in Antioch, they called the church together and reported everything God had done through them and how he had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles, too. And they stayed there with the believers for a long time.” Acts of the Apostles 14:26-28 Antioch is a prime example of why the Catholic Church is in fact Jesus’ original church.
a couple of historical points that need to be considered. 1) the fact that through the 4th century the church fathers never were in 1005 agreement of the 27 books of the canon. 2) not only were they not in agreement but their would-be canons were GROWING during this time. 3) This did in fact creat confusion in the church - enter the 3 councils of Hippo, Rome and Carthage. What other reason for their existence is there but to clear up the confusion and shortly after we see the canon throughout the church solidified. You are correct God ultimately did this wonderful and mighty task, just as He ultimately did when the writers put pin to papyri yet we all say it was Paul who actually wrote the book of Romans. If there was no council that determined the canon based on your paradigm, then Paul did not write the book of Romans either. 🤷🏽♂
I don’t know enough of history to argue that specific point, but I know the Catholic Church in the 3-5th century is vastly different than it is today or was 500 years ago. So the claim doesn’t mean much Also, if the Catholic Church ratified the canon, why did it wait another 1200 years to ratify to Deutero-canonical books?
I don't follow your logic. You say that the councils decided on the canon but then you also say that it was God's decision. Do you mean the council represents God? Makes no sense to me. God never made any revelation to any prophet or apostle regarding the canon. It was men who made the canon.
“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]). “Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).
God didn't write the Bible man did. Claiming God inspired man to write the Bible is ridiculous. It took men centuries to even compile and then decide on the canon. It's a claim nobody can refute. Just ask the Muslims.
The truth will never be acknowledged as that highlights that Prots are using a Bible codified by the CC in 382. Who gave Luther authority to remove 7 books? Deut 4:2.
That's a pretty decent summary but it is incomplete. The Codex Vaticanus (325 AD) and Codex Sinaiticus (350 AD) are the oldest full bible manuscripts scholars have found. They both include most of the new testament and the Deuterocanonicals. Next, at the Synod of Rome under Pope Damases (383), the cannon was declared. Yes, it was a regional council, but any regional council overseen by the Pope is universally binding. Please note the councils of Hippo (393), which you mentioned, and Carthage (393) and again in 413, both affirmed the 73 book cannon. It was at the Ecumenical council of Florence int 1492 that the canon was affirmed once again, and then finally at the council of Trent in 1546 in response to the reformation. As you can see, for most of Christian history, the bible included the Deuterocanonicals (Apocrypha). It was only when Martin Luther tried to remove them, along with 4 books of the New Testament (James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation) that the Church felt the need to address the issue.
Jesus recognized the books of Moses, the historical books, the Psalms & the prophers. He never mentioned or quoted any of the Apocryphal. Neither the other human authors of the NT
Jesus and the Apostles used and quoted from the Septuagint which included the deuterocanonical books. If the standard you use to determine which books are canonical is Jesus or the Apostles must have quoted them, you would have to exclude Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Zephaniah, Nahum, Ezra, Nehamiah, Obadiah and Ester. I don't think any Protestant sect would do that. Never the less, there are plenty of allusions to the Deuterocanonical books. (Matthew 6:14-15: “If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you.” Sirach 28:2: “Forgive your neighbor’s injustice, then when you pray your own sins will be forgiven.”) ( Romans 11:34: “For who has known the mind of the Lord or who has been his counselor?” Wisdom 9:13: “For what man knows God’s counsel, or who can conceive what the Lord intends?” ). There are others, of course, these are just a couple of examples.
same can be said about the canon by marcion in the first century how did they know what they had was divine word of God we need to nderstand that tge reason the true church rejected it was because they already knew what was inspired word and knew that canon rejected much of it
The Jews inherited the Old Testament Scriptures about 200 years before Christ. The Scriptures were already compiled by then and the New testament was compiled by the late 200's ad. The RCC didn't come on the scene until late 300 ad and an evil pope wasn't in place until around 590 ad. So, if you are referring to the Roman Catholic Church it is an apostate church if it were ever in the body of Christ to begin with and it worked overtime in keeping the Scriptures from the people because it is of the Adversary not God Almighty.
“It was God and God alone who determined the books of the Bible.” This is the kind of statement that is made by people who close their minds to the pesky history that dispels their dogmatic narrative. In the end, humans made decisions about which books to include based on their best judgment. As the video suggests, selection criteria were used, meaning the process wasn’t random. Some say insight about screening standards was provided by the Holy Spirit. That’s fine, but the Bible is still a product of human minds that led earthly institutions. The historical record of the actual events is beyond a reasonable doubt.
The Apocrypha are considered as canon , in the Eastern Orthodox Church. The Church assembled the Bible. If you believe in the Bible, you need to believe in the Councils that assembled it. Faith is not based on the Bible but on the Church that vouches for the Bible.
@@indigofenrir7236 God is the Head of the Church. The rest of the body, is comprised by the people. In that Context the Church is devine union that existed before the creation of man. The first Church was not created in Pentecost. The first Ecclesia was the Holy Trinity. Besides that, there were Christian around, long before Bible was fully assembled.
@@indigofenrir7236 I am Orthodox Christian. We do not believe in purgatory, we do not have a pope, we do not believe in the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary. What you call Apocrypha, we call normal Bible , we included them from the very start of the assembly of the Bible....
@@indigofenrir7236 Councils are made up of humans. The Bible was written and assembled by humans too. Over the course of centuries. During that time Christians did not have a Bible, only a Church. And the people trusted that Church to give them the Bible .
@@indigofenrir7236 Christ and Church are one body. : For we were all baptized by ONE Spirit so as to form ONE body-whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free-and we were all given the ONE Spirit to drink. (1 Corinthians 12:13)
@@indigofenrir7236 Christ is infallible, humans are not (only the Pope thinks he is), but the Church/Ecclesia as a whole, Is Infallible guide to Salvation. The Church that assembled the Bible, was filled with humans with sins, but that Church, Vouches for the Bible. So if you don't follow the same Church, you can't prove that the Bible is a guide to the Truth. The people in the Synods (there were several, over the course of centuries) that assembled the Bible, practiced infant baptism. If you take one (Bible) and not the other (Infant baptism) it just does not make any sense...The same (inperfect) vouched for both. Having said that, there are cases that Baptism is not needed eg Martyrs of Christ. They were Baptised in Blood of their Sacrifice. Jesus never said anything about the so-called "apocrypha"
On the Apocrypha or Deuterocanonical books. These are additional books of the Greek Septuagint Old Testament Bible and they should be in our Bible today because it is the Bible Jesus and the Apostles had. Jesus doesn’t quote from these books but the Apostles do so if they found value in them perhaps we should give them a place or at least not disregard them entirely or consider them heretic in any manner.
Canon Selected by catholic priests. Old Testament is not necessary for a new believer. Only few books in the old Testament is enough.The canon is not at all by the Holy Spirit. You are wrong.
00:40 We are interested in the process of canonization of the Bible as a collection of literature, and you are saying "It was God who decided what books belonged....." That's is BS.
Great video, I agree with everything especially the fact that you say that the Canon wasn't determined by the Church, but God determined it and the Church recognized it.
You should probably change the title of the video because it sounds like you're going to say the exact opposite?
Maybe it should say: How the Church Received the Canon of Scripture.
The counsels did not CONFER inspiration to those books, they RECOGNIZED their inspiration through God’s Holy Spirit.
How though?
😂😂😂😂How was that determined
@@peterimade003 If God created trillions of galaxies and we have only existed on one planet for maybe 100 years, It's not possible for humans to be able to comprehend how the Holy Spirit works. Human intellect cannot figure it out.
@@icecoolguita but you haven't answered the question, how was that determined
@@peterimade003 If you're asking how the early churches determined which books were accepted, I'll just give a short summary. It wasn't that they had a meeting one day and decided that some books were good and some were not.
Writings were considered of God or not of God basically when written-by those who followed God. God chose the Israelites to be His people. When Moses was alive he wrote the first 5 books(called the books of the law). He died, scribes passed down the writing through the generations. The Israelites knew that these writings were of God I mean their ancestors saw the miracles God did with their own eyes.
What if the scribes made mistakes? We know how meticulous they treated their task, they had people whose sole job was to count the number of words in each transcription and if anything was off it was thrown out and recopied. They literally knew they were writing the words of God so it's not like a 9 to 5 job where they could make some mistakes, in their culture they feared God/had tremendous reverence for God and there was nothing more important in their lives than this. You can also look up the reliability of the dead sea scrolls.
After Moses, the prophets of God were affirmed by miracles, their writings are included in the Old Testament. You can also look up fulfilled prophecy in the Bible to see the reliability of these prophets. The rest of the Old Testament are Historical books and Wisdom/Poetry books that the Jews accepted. We know Jesus quotes from it, the apostles also quote from it. What I'm basically saying is that when the writings were written, the Jews accepted it or not, and they weren't like us now who just 'do religion' on Sunday, they didn't treat this task casually at all, it was everything to them. Look up how many laws they had to keep back then and see how zealous they were.
For the New Testament, the criteria was basically if the author was an apostle(or affirmed by the apostle), if the writing taught the orthodox faith, and if the writing/letter had been widely accepted in the earliest churches. For a little over 300 years after Jesus ascended, Christians were being hunted and killed, so they could not meet publicly or officially decide the New Testament canon amongst all the churches. Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and there was a heresy spreading(Arianism) which moved the churches to establish the official New Testament canon so people would not be led astray by false teachings. I'm pretty sure that's when the first list of New Testament books were official. I should note that Catholics, Protestants and the Eastern Orthodox Churches all agree to the same books in the New Testament.
If you do the research, the Bible is by far the most reliable historical document we have.
If you're asking about proof of the Holy Spirit, what I mentioned above and also how the Bible describes the Holy Spirit is that it is like a wind(the Hebrew translation for Spirit can refer to wind) it blows where it wishes but we do not know where it comes from or where it goes.
I find it funny you cite early church fathers but ignore them when they refute you on the Deuterocannonical Books. And this is coming from a protestant.
Not only does he ignore them. he fails to mention that Clement of Rome 95 ad was Bishop of Rome. The same for Hippolytus. The Roman Church gave us the Scriptures. Christianity comes from the Church. The very fact that there are not protestant christians preaching Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide anwhere in the centuries leading to the Protestant Reformation is proof enough.
@@TheMenghi1 And that is why I finally left Protestantism and am joining the Catholic Church. The dishonesty in protestant theology is mind blowing. Ignoring 1500 years of church history just to make their own crap up as they go along.
@@TheMenghi1the Roman church did not “give us the scriptures “ God did. And clement of Rome taught Sola Fide, and St Augustine taught very clearly that the writings of the church fathers is fallible . Also Jesus , taught Sola Fide and Paul and the whole gospel.
@@HollywoodBigBossyou mean like the Roman Catholic Church did for 1500 years. You went from believing the Gospel and the inerrant word of God to believing Mary worship and purgatory? I’m sorry you didn’t trust Jesus and looked to man :( he loves you and you can come back whenever you want
@@cwojtas4222 No I went from believing in a heretical doctrine of Martin Lucifer to the one true Apostlic Church. So question for you and answer VERY carefully. If your view is correct then either Jesus lied that Satan would not overcome his church or The Holy Spirit failed the Disciples and Apostles. Seeing as both above statements are blasphemy and after reading the Apostlic Father's, The Didache etc. I know Martin Lucifer and his 5 Solas are from HELL ITSELF and I have Zero doubt that is where he ended up too.
I’ll save you time guys. The Eastern and Western Churches compiled the cannons in the first centuries. Later Protestants removed some books from the OT and tried to remove even more from the NT
If memory serves the first KJV Bible had 73 Old Testament books. And if not decided by The Catholic Church, who comprised The Church exactly? And where do The Scriptures teach sola scriptura?
100%
That's laughably false from a historical perspective.
@@cerealbowl7038 I take it you aren’t properly versed in history.
So are you implying that the holy spirit got it wrong the first time?
I’m a Christian and have been since my childhood. Read the Bible in full multiple times and I only say these things to give myself at least a little credibility for what I’m about to say. So know I’m not trying to be a contrarian.
The people who compiled the books are men we don’t and cannot know of. We know through documented history, certain religious figures who quoted from this book or that, but the bible we have today (Protestant bible and even the Catholic bible) descend from what was decided in those early councils from men we do not know. We do not know those men intimately like we know of John and Peter. Or Saul who became Paul. I trust that Gods word is inspired and inerrant. I also acknowledge that, realistically speaking, we really can’t know which books the apostles would have considered scripture or not (old and new). To be fair, that early church didn’t even have all the New Testament books yet that we even read today, plus with the lack of a printing press, it must have taken some time for those epistles to really get around.
That all being said, I believe in the Lord. I believe in the Bible we read. I believe when theological archeologists point to older manuscripts that lack certain passages/changed verses. And most importantly, I believe that if the Lord wanted us to read or not read certain books, He’d lay that in our hearts and make that clear. The Bible as we know it has authority until God tells us otherwise.
As I heard someone say, “If God can’t give us a book without errors in it (in the original autographs, not the copies), what makes you think He can get you out of a grave?” God has always used ordinary, flawed, weak people (like you and me) in extraordinary ways. What we have has withstood the test of time and the onslaught of those who sought to destroy this book or at least keep it out of the hands of regular folks. IMHO, if it weren’t God’s Word, it would not have survived. The fact that from Genesis to Revelation, the narrative is consistent, considering the fact it was written (I might be off on my numbers a bit) over 1,500 years, in 3 languages, by 40 different authors on 2 continents. We have thousands of manuscript copies made by “human Xerox machines” (scribes) who made it their life profession to make sure they copied it right. Yes, they made some mistakes, but they were minor. Quite a feat if you ask me. Then there were those who were killed (burned at the stake) to dare translate it into the native tongue. We hold a miracle in our hands!
@@ecuador9911Well said...
But the Qu’ran is also considered to be a book from God. If God didn’t want us reading the Qu’ran why does it exist?
Catholics believe that it was with the guidance of the Holy Spirit they were only able to compile the books of the Bible but yes, to your point- that is why we don't believe in Sola Scriptura and rely on tradition as well.
And also, every priest in the Catholic church can trace his priestly lineage back to the apostles . So every priest os ordained with the blessing of a bishop ( priest) who was ordained by another all the way back to the apostles. No other religion can claim that .
@@dreamsaresharedhere_ ...free will
When i have difficulties in understanding any biblical verse i always seek Got Questions, they are fully trust worthy and are Born Again Brothers who would NEVER mess around with Gods Words, for they are, as we are, God Fearing, and as we, they also know the price TO PAY for those who indulges in twisting Gods Words to suit their Religious Doctrines. Shalom.
According to GOD who killed Goliath and how he died?
@@Yoandrys23 “Thus David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and he struck the Philistine and put him to death; but there was no sword in David’s hand. Then David ran and stood over the Philistine and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath and put him to death and cut off his head with it. Then the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, so they fled.”
1 Samuel 17:50-51
@@JackmeriusTacktheritrix-000 Oh ok, and who's this one?
"And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam" 2 Samuel 21:19
@@Yoandrys23 Sorry for the delay, I’m really busy so I had to cheat. Here’s an excerpt from the Got Questions guys:
“Why does 2 Samuel 21:19 say that Elhanan killed Goliath? One viable theory is that, somewhere in the chain of copying the text, a scribe made a mistake. The Hebrew word for “the brother of” was miswritten, which changed the grammar of the sentence and led to a problematic sentence structure for the next scribe. The second scribe’s attempt to solve the syntactical puzzle produced a reading that omitted the important detail of Goliath’s brother.
Fortunately, we have 1 Chronicles 20:5, which contains the correct Hebrew wording and informs us, through implication, that 2 Samuel 21:19 is missing the words the brother of. We can be confident that David killed Goliath. Elhanan later killed Goliath’s brother.
Further, the context of 2 Samuel 21:19 makes it clear that it is describing an entirely separate event from David’s slaying of Goliath in 1 Samuel 17:50. Second Samuel 21:11-14 puts the passage after the death of Saul, who was alive when David killed Goliath (1 Samuel 17:31-39, 55-58). Second Samuel 21:15-17 indicates that Elhanan killed “Goliath” when David was the king of Israel, not when he was a servant of King Saul.”
This dude isn’t all that knowledgeable.:/
Funny how you completely leave out the fact that the Bible was compiled by Catholics (early Christians) working through the Holy Spirit and that it wasn’t until later that Protestants decided on their own to remove 7 books disregarding what God had originally decided should be in the Bible. Update:
" The Bible is considered the inspired word of God by the faithful. So you have to wonder: where did it come from?
With all the writings floating around the ancient world, who decided which of them rated as sacred enough to be scripture?
This question is technically one of canonicity. “Canon” means norm or standard. The term was first applied by St. Athanasius to a collection of Jewish and Christian writings around the year 350. A fourth-century bishop of Alexandria, Egypt, Athanasius was a powerhouse.
He would later be named “Doctor of Orthodoxy” for his strong defense against heresies of his time. Athanasius attended the all-important Council of Nicaea, from which we get our Nicene Creed. He was a zealous advocate for the divinity of Jesus in an age before the nature of Jesus was uniformly accepted. For all of these reasons, Athanasius was invested in settling the canon of scripture: which books might be counted as the “Word of God”-and which, at best, were just good words.
It would have been helpful to him if the apostles had sat down one dull night in the first century and decided this themselves: “Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are in. Gospels of Thomas and Judas-out!” It would also have been impossible, since many New Testament texts weren’t written until after that first generation of church leaders had died. Also, strange as it may seem, even the Hebrew scriptures we call the Old Testament had yet to be defined by the Jewish community. While we may think of Jesus carrying around a volume of Genesis through Maccabees in his backpack, neither he nor anyone of his time owned such a collection.
What hastened the need to settle the biblical canon was simple practicality. As the Christian community gradually separated from its Jewish roots, it was vital to determine which of the many instructive texts scattered around the Mediterranean region would be binding for each group. The rabbis of Judaism fought their own canon skirmishes around the year 100, but some books written before the time of Jesus that didn’t make their final list had already proven useful to Jewish Christians.
Heavy hitters among ancient theologians, such as Origen, Athanasius, and Jerome, argued for a shorter canon than Augustine, especially when it came to these Hebrew books. The 27 books Athanasius proposed for the New Testament were not much in dispute and remain standard today.
It took the Council of Trent (1545-63) to define the Old Testament canon as inclusive of books that Protestant Reformers removed, including Tobit, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom, the Maccabees, and others. Today’s Bible owes a debt to these many ancient debates" . These Bishops were Catholic. The early church was Catholic Martin Luther was Catholic There would be no protestants without Catholics. In a strange way , your roots are and always have been , Catholic. Protestants do yourself a favor , read the missing books your leaders removed after the bible had been compiled.
We took them out because they dont mention jesus and also talks about purgatory… if purgatory is real then that means not all of our sin is covered and what jesus did is not enough… that makes zero sense
@@Zerr27 ...what???? well that's convenient . So let me get this straight - the bible mentioned purgatory or referred to purgatory but they didn't like that so they said let just take those books out?? Sounds like early age liberalism. How convenient- just take out parts you don't agree with - create your own idea of what heaven is...make yourselves into your own God's. And just so you know , there a more references to purgatory that are in the New Testament .
Catholicism is false
Note the catholic church did not compile the books. In fact the RCC even changed the closed cannon of the old Testament.
commissioned St. Jerome, the leading biblical scholar of his day, to produce an acceptable Latin version of the Bible from the various translations then being used.
The first mention of The NT Canon (with 27 books) was in a letter from St. Athanatius (Bishop of Alexandria) in 367. It’s essential to the understanding of this most important process, that we recognize the role which The Early Church played. I would urge you to read the writings of those Church Fathers who you have listed, they were quite Catholic in their beliefs.
It worth reading a few scholarly books on this.
1.The Biblical Canon: Its Origin, Transmission, and Authority
LEE MARTIN MCDONALD
2.The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine, Volume 1: The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition (100-600) (The Christian ... of the Development of Christian Doctrine) Jaroslav Pelikan
3.History of the Christian Church, Volume III: Nicene and Post-Nicene Christianity. A.D. 311-600
by Philip Schaff
Thank you❤
Very good, but the more poignant question would be, Where are these non-Catholic Christians who gave us the Scriptures? Who were their leaders? Where can I find them today excluding 16th reformers?
The mentioned Church Fathers quoting the Deuterocanon for theology:
"Who shall say unto Him, What have you done? Or, Who shall resist the power of His strength? (Wisdom 12:12)"
Clement of Rome, First Epistle, Chpt. 27
"When you do good, defer it not, because 'alms delivers from death' (Tobit 4:10)"
Polycarp, Epistle to the Philippians, Chpt. 10
"And Jeremiah the prophet has pointed out... saying, 'Look around Jerusalem towards the east, and behold the joy which comes to you from God Himself.' (Baruch 4:36)"
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, Chpt. 35, Section 1
"I produce the prophecy of Solomon... 'Let us lie in wait for the righteous, because he is not for our turn,' (Wisdom 2:1)"
Hippolytus, Expository Treatise, Section 9
Why are you ignoring that the council of Hippo which you site regards the 27 books of the New Testament, also lists the deuterocanonical books what you refer to as the apocrypha as being cannon? The holy spirit is not schizophrenic. If he inspired the fathers of the council of Hippo to include the 27 books of the new testament in their list, he also inspired them to in include the deuterocanonical books which indeed they did.
Are you really joking right now??? Wow.. like for real... You are actually saying there was a council of HIPPOS??? Like the animal the Hippo sat down and picked the Bible... way out of line.. so not true
I don’t believe that the council of Hippo was ecumenical, but there is definitely room for investigation as to why they believed the apocrypha to be canonical. Under what basis do you believe the apocrypha to be canonical?
@@Bobthebuilder71160it was used by all christians up until 16th century...plus is was canonized
@@Bobthebuilder71160 --You should be asking yourself why 16 centuries later the Protestants tried to cut books and actually threw books out of the OT.
Thanks I learn something new, never knew this.
Pastor Bob called these councils
Thank you brother for explaining how the canon of bible came to be. God bless you
He actually lies
Except it's mostly bad logic and poor representation of the historical facts. This is obvious to anyone interested in doing any honest research.
How can I read other works of scripture that were excluded from the current Bible?
John 7: 37 & 38 was called the scripture by Jesus but was not recognized as part of the cannon.
What book was it. And why not included?
Jesus Christ pointed it out then why
Why didn't you feel the need to mention that Pope Damascus assembled the council of Rome in 382 which was comprised of the early church fathers who decided on the books to be included in the Canon? . It seems that's quite an important fact worth mentioning...
B 4. THE CANON, THE DIDCHE. AKA
THE TEACHING OF THE APOSTLES WAS
THE RULE. 🌹 A. M. D. G. 🌹
How was the content of this video decided?
Scholars generally agree that the Old Testament, the Jewish Canon, was compiled by 70 BC, although the number of books was debated. By the time of the 380 AD there had been at least 200 ‘gospels’ considered. One thing to consider by modern standard though, textual criticism allows us to date the Gospels with reasonable accuracy. I am not qualified to discussed such matters as I am not educated in such specifics. But, certainly, our modern KJV is representative of the Protestant Bible that was finally agreed on. As to the Catholic version I am not educated in. The criteria for choosing the books by the speaker of this video was fairly accurate but had been under debate and discussion for three hundred years. But one extra point. If Jesus or the Apostles quote the Old Testament that authenticates it as reliable. I would be very curious, though, as to what Hebrews and 1’2,3 John were open to debate. 1 John seems to nicely sum up most of Christian doctrine in my opinion. God bless.
No it wasn't. There were multiple Jewish sects in disagreement with each other. Sadduccees only accepted the 5 Books of Moses. Pharisees had disagreements between the schools of Shammai and Hillel (Esther, Proverbs, Song of Songs, Ecclesiastes, Ezekiel were rejected by Hillel). We also had the Essenes that had Tobit, Ben Sira & Epistle of Jeremiah with 1 Enoch (Chapters 1 - 36) and the book of Jubilees. Then you also had Hellenistic Jews that had a 24 book cannon opposed to 22 book cannon (with Tobit & Judith). Flavius Josephus in his writings in ~96 AD rejected the Books of Minor Prophets, Song of Songs & Ecclesiastes. There are no quotes from the books of Isaiah & Ezekiel calling into question of whether he accepted these books. To make it even worse is Josephus quotes from 1 Esdras and a version of Nehemiah that we no longer have in existance.
It wasn't until Rabbi Akiva in 130 AD where an attempt was made to standardize the Jewish Tanak in response to the Christians. In the Babylonian Talmud they even mention they removed books from their bible but at the same time quote the Book of Ben Sira (Wisdom of Sirach) as sacred scripture 3 times. This was a very slow process as when Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate in between 390 - 407 AD in Bethlehem the Hebrew source text conflicts with what we have today in the Hebrew Masoretic Text and agrees with the Dead Sea Scroll & Septuagint text. Additionally the Samaritan Pentateuch has over 6000 differences with the Hebrew text (4000 being spelling of names etc.) but the remaining 2000 in agreement with the Septuagint text used by the early Christians and still used by the Eastern Orthodox Chruch to this day. The Catholic Church confirmed their 73 book cannon at the Council of Rome 382. In fact the earliest codexes we have Vaticanus (300), Sinaiticus (350) & Alexandrinus (400 AD) all have the Deuterocannon in them.
Good Job!!! ... Thank you.
Well said.
Thank you!
The canon bible was all about the Catholic Mass. Church councils determined which books can be read at Mass.
I don’t know about that.
I just watched in the video that explained how it took over 2000 years for our Bible to become what it is today and that depends on what religion you are in
Just look at the book of Isaiah alone, that book is 66 chapters and split perfectly of God’s judgment vs His grace just like how the Bible is structured with 66 books and split just the same.
I don’t believe in coincidences, God surely brought what needed to be brought, together.
No Christian ever used a 66 book Bible until much later after the Reformation. Are you saying that God took more than 1500 years “to bring together what needed to be brought together”?
Chapters are a man made edition to the Bible.
Chapters were added by the Catholic Church as well.
@@NevetsWC1134 which chapters?
What they mean is that the words were written down long before somebody divided it up into chapters by adding the numbers, in order to make it much easier to refer to certain passages.
God never cannoned any books in the NT or OT either! For if he had; there wouldn't be differences! IE: the first KJV bible in 1611 AD called the "Original"; had 80 books. And it was said, "This bible is the only one; that is inspired by God!". Yet in 1885 AD, this KJV threw 14 books out. Now it's only 66 books. They call it the "Authorized" KJV. And they said the same thing! How sad, because in...
...1973 they changed that KJV into a NKJV ("New King James Version"). And that KJV has over millions of words; that they changed. They are called the "Elizabethen" words. Where you is "ye", your is "thy", among is "amongst" and believe is "believeth", etc!. And on and on and on. In every book in the bible, no less. Plus, they corrected many translation errors that the Bible Scholars found.
And they say that the NKJV was inspired by God. Yet the NIV and NASB bibles; are said; to be the most accurately translated, ever in history. Where the NASB was translated "word by word". But the NIV was translated "phrase by phrase"!
So I ask any wise Christian. "did God inspire this mess? Huh? So Silly. That means; that the ONLY place one can go; to get the pure truths (voided of any errors and/or fallibilities); is to close your bible. Then get on your knees and ask Jesus to give you: "Wisdom, Understanding and the Truth". For He is the ONLY one. that is "Inerrant" and "Infallible"!
Then and only then, open your bible(s). And you will see things; that you will believe now; that you never believed in the yrs back. Believe it or not. It took me 75 yrs to learn this. And the last 16 yrs; is the most joyful of my life, I have ever had. Praise Jesus' Holy Name.
It’s called “Canonization”. God never Canonized any books ( for example).
A canon is a standard that is accepted to be authoritative by a group. In this case, The Church.
To “Cannon”, would be to shoot a giant gun.
This idea of self-authentication is Calvinist at the core. It deals with feelings, not logic based on historical facts.
When was the Canon considered formally closed?
Well, I guess that God has kept out of touch with the Church on the OT canon until Martin Luther came😂
Also if it was God alone on who determined canon, why do you follow Luther’s take on the canon? And why do you believe the Jews take on the canon? These are but mere men.
What made those MEN more holy and directly God inspired than the Christians of today who are able to objectively comprehend the unadulterated word of God and hear HIS new instructions even today?
The Holy Spirit had laid upon my heart to study the original texts and comprehend what's being transmitted. Not extra-biblically but extra-indictrinationally!
The Christians of today don't even know their history. Do you really believe that the liturgy celebrated by the early Christians was this 'glory and praise' nonsense of the modern era. Read the Didache, written in the latter part of the 1st century.
Ttwo things make them more reliable than you:
1. They met the Apostles in person. That means they are more credible in interpreting the writings of those people than you are, a random person 2000 years later.
2. The early church believed, based on what they learned in-person from the apostles, that the Holy Spirit guides gathered Christians (councils) to the right conclusions. Thus the Church agreed to follow the consensus of the councils. This extends also from point #1.
You do not have the original texts. No one does. Further, you give me no reason to think that your "comprehensions" are true. You could be in error, just like you would say everyone who disagrees with you on scripture is in error.
...not to mention that there was an established Church with very clear teachings, baptismal regeneration, Holy Eucharist, hierarchy of bishops, priest, deacons. This would be comparable to those fathers of the nation like Jefferson, Franklin, etc. They could comment and live the Constitution in the same manner that the early Christians could live the Gospels, apply them in real life and not theorize about them.
Its interesting to know that Peter recognized Pauls writing as Scripture.
Yes, it was inspired, but the actual Canon took centuries to compile.
Correction please. The first canon was Marcion's Christian Bible in 144 CE. That included one gospel (known as 'The Gospel of the Lord') plus ten letters of Paul. Marcion did not recognise Matthew, Mark Luke and John nor the non-Pauline writings. He believed they were all influenced or corrupted by Jewish converts. Marcion rejected the Hebrew canon.
>Uses the term “CE”
Opinion discarded
Dude jumped from 26 to 27 authoritative books.
The canon is NOT a list of books. If that were the case then we automatically reject an epistle of Paul, if someone could authenticate its discovery.
For example: In the Book of Colossians it says this:
Col. 4:16 - And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
What if we found that epistle or a first century copy? Should we keep it out of the New Testament because it's not on a list somewhere? I, for one, would be happy to read another letter from Paul to a church. Knowing Paul, it would be more of the same information with a slightly different way of saying it, perhaps.
The canon is in concrete. It exists outside any magic list or ecclesiastical authority. The sky is not blue because someone said, "The sky is blue." No. The sky is blue because its blue whether anybody declares it blue or not.
The canon is fixed but the delivery method is changeable. As in the above example, a new letter could be added to the New Testament without affecting the canon. Personally, I love the Book of Wisdom from the Catholic apocrypha. I would love to see it added to the bible because it is totally canonical.
The canon can be determined on an individual basis when you know the whole story - the lore. Islam teaches that Abraham and Ishmael went to Mecca and destroyed all the idols there. That story breaks canon. How do I know that? Because I know the lore.
D.C. released a movie that showed Wonder Woman lassoing a bad guy and when she did, he immediately started telling everything he knew without prompting. Fans of the D.C. comics knew immediately, "That's not how Wonder Woman's Golden Lasso works!" The movie BROKE CANON.
We don't know what canon is but we can sense when canon is broken. If someone said that Jesus got into His Toyota and drove off, we'd suspect that that story was probably not true. We know when canon is broken. The worship of angels, Mary, and other super-holy people breaks canon.
Catholicism breaks canon. We know it because we know the lore. We don't need a magician in a robe to tell us what is and what is not canon. All we need to do it read what's there in a logical way. It's as easy and as hard as that.
the bible does say that one beast rises out of the bottomless pit and goes into perdition or a state of eternal damnation much like the Catholics who left off the worship of God and choose to worship Mary and the saints instead of God
Catholics literally don’t worship anyone but God. Worship is to sacrifice. That is left to God alone.
@NevetsWC1134 that's bull and you know it. For if they worshipped God they would also obey His commandments. Catholics ignore God's commands in just about everything. They wouldn't even allow you to read the Bible without a priest less God speak to you through the written word
@@NevetsWC1134 when you say God you must not mean the God of Israel FOR THERE IS NO OTHER GOD BESIDES HIM
You are completely clueless, please keep quiet.
@@edwardhill7045 You need to read early Christian history.
Are you saying God prevented the early Church to make any mistake when declaring which books were inspired?
He is saying that the early church was wrong and God corrected them in the year 1519.
@@NevetsWC1134 well no. He is saying exactly the opposite. Not sure where you got that 1519 from. He never mentioned that.
Well Luther took out the deuterocanon so actually that’s exactly what he was saying. Luther wanted to take James and 2 Peter out as well. Thank God he didn’t butcher the New Testament
@@roshankurien203 How odd that one man wanted to be The Church and take out books from The Bible. And his German Bible added the word "alone" to the word faith in Romans. Short term gain; this dishonesty has caused people to rightfully criticize him and ask the question: Where does the Bible say faith alone?
Yeah God alone chose the books of the Bible. But not in a vacuum, he used the church as an instrument through the council, Hippo Rome and Carthage. It was the Bishops of Rome who presided it. It’s public knowledge
He didn't use any specific institution. He used early Christians, councils, the very intern evidence of the Bible, but not a specific institution that can be considered what the RCC is today. Blessings.
@@Maranatha99 Pope Damesus and Pope Galesius were publicly declared Popes.. just wiki Damasus list and Galasian decree.. it’s the same canon of scripture New and old finally declared infallibly in Trent. As I said just wiki it. It’s public knowledge
@@roshankurien203lol are u talking about Wikipedia my man?
@@roshankurien203I can write 50 pages in wiki. Doesn’t mean it’s true. Cmon now
@@j.dieason7527 haha.. yeah Wikipedia. That’s how public and common knowledge it is.. or you can actually just take the references used in Wikipedia.. But if you have doubts on Wikipedia you can access any book on church history :
1. The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine, Volume 1: The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition (100-600) (The Christian ... of the Development of Christian Doctrine) Jaroslav Pelikan
2.History of the Christian Church, Volume III: Nicene and Post-Nicene Christianity. A.D. 311-600
by Philip Schaff
3.The Biblical Canon: Its Origin, Transmission, and Authority
LEE MARTIN MCDONALD
Pick one buy it read it buddy. Don’t trust me test me. Go ahead.
All of those authors are Protestant. But to be honest Pelikan became Orthodox..
I read the Bible, all the books that were chucked out, I have a quaran.
Sifting through man's lies in side of God's word.
The canon of the Hebrew Scriptures was established by the end of the fifth century B.C.E. The skilled scribe and inspired Bible writer Ezra began the work, and it was completed by Nehemiah. (Ezra 7:6)The writing of the Christian Greek Scriptures (New Testament) was completed during the time that the gifts of the spirit were operative on Christ’s followers. (John 14:26) Some Christians had the gift of “discernment of inspired expressions.” (1 Corinthians 12:10)
Thus, they could, without referring the matter to a supposed church council, determine which of the letters the congregation received were inspired of God. With the death of John, the last apostle, this reliable chain of divinely inspired men came to an end. Therefore, with the book of Revelation, John’s Gospel, and his three letter, the Bible canon was closed! The testimony of later, noninspired writers is valuable only as an acknowledgement of the Bible canon, which God’s spirit had guided authorized!
>uses the term “BCE”
Opinion discarded
Awe how sweet not acknowledging that it was the Catholic Bishops and Orthodox Bishops who were your "early Christians" that God and the Holy Spirit inspired and aided in putting the Bible together then you probably won't mention how Martin Luther on his own when forming the protestant church over 1000 years later decided oh we don't need those seven. But it's cute how you leave that out.
he didn't mention who's responsible because they are hypocrite protestants
May I ask if those early fathers that he mentioned are Catholics???
Yes they were.
Ignatius lived from around A.D. 35 to 107. He was the third bishop of Antioch and tradition records that he was a disciple of the apostle John (cf. The Maryrdom of Ignatius). During the reign of Emperor Trajan, he was taken to Rome and suffered martyrdom there. Along the way he wrote seven letters-one to St. Polycarp of Smyrna, and six others to various churches.
See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is administered either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. -Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ch 8
early-Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, who has written, “As regards `Catholic,’ its original meaning was `universal’ or `general’ … As applied to the Church, its primary significance was to underline its universality as opposed to the local character of the individual congregations. Very quickly, however, in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations. . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church” (J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines, 5th ed. [San Francisco: Harper, 1978], 190f).
why those 5 books?
WHEN those books were canonized was the adoration and worship of Mary being done in the churches as it is among the Catholics?
Well Catholics don’t worship Mary and yes they did hold Mary to a very high place of veneration
Yes.. Rylands Papyrus 470 dated 250AD,
“Beneath thy compassion, we take refuge, O Mother of God: do not despise our petitions in time of trouble, but rescue us from dangers,only pure one, only blessed one..”
@@roshankurien203 so you never got in touch with God whom the bible is all about? AND BECAUSE OF YOUR REBELLION AGAINST THE MOST HIGH you will go to hell .
@roshankurien203 that is another religion and not the one that Jesus established. Catholicism is another religion entirely and not of Christian origin
@roshankurien203 the scripture says that beast ie catholicism came out of the bottomless pit and went into perdition. It started out with the real gospel but went back into false religion. Catholicism is the beast of revelation 17. There is no salvation in the catholic church.
There was no Catholic church first. It was a group of believers. Those who acknowledge God as their priority, who believe in Him. 🙏🏼
Well they weren't called Catholics just as they weren't called Presbyterians or Lutherans etc etc. But truth in fact is that the Catholic church is the ONLY church founded by Christ . All other denominations are founded by man. Every Priest in the Catholic church can trace his priestly lineage back to the Apostles who then got theirs from Christ . That's a big deal whether you understand it or not. Your church can not claim this. Christ chose these apostles and gave them authority to grow and care for the church in His name . Every day all over the world...every day...the Catholic Church has service and celebrates passover or the Eucharist . They do this because this is the new covenant Jesus initiated with us . I probably can't convince you of this BUt of you desire the Truth - go to the author of Truth and ask Him yourself.
Read about st Ignatius of Antioch and his letters. He was among the early church to compile the Canon and the first one to use the word "Catholic" in greek. You guys believe ignorantly what you want to believe.
@@mmmz811actually its not the catholic church its the orthodox that is the ONLY church and THE church, the catholics invented new ideas of papal supremacy and infallibility that is nowhere found before, they became worldly and legalistic, the devil used this tendency in the roman mentality, its no surprise the reformation came out of catholicism
So name them by century, please. How about Ignatius of Antioch, Iraeneus of Lyons, for example? How about Justin Martyr. How about Clement of Rome, 2nd century? Go ahead, please.
Peter did not recognize Paul in the way you are stating
Saint Jerome is worthy of his title of sainthood for his work with Hebrew rabbis and Greek monks to translate the Torah, the Septuagint into the bible collection of today.❤
Saints can only be chosen by God not by men. Do you not know that only God knows the hearts of men. Jesus taught that men have evil thoughts continually and even referred to His disciples as evil in Matthew 7. The blind arrogance of the catholic church is revealed to the wise through scripture and The Holy Spirit.
In order for you to believe that one must ignore Mark 7: 20-23. Jesus knows the hearts of men and the catholic church chooses to ignore His teachings. No man is worthy to designate a saint.
@@francissweeney7318 THANK YOU!
@@wesleysimelane3423Thank God. It is His Word that reveals the Truth.
And why don't you just list the books that Carthage accepted...
Thank you for this video. But one can only say that God decided the books that belong in the Bible based on the cannon they ascribe to. If Catholics say that God decided, and if Protestants said that God decided, and Ethiopians said that God decided, then someone is wrong. We have to stick with the facts. Dogmatic statements like “God decided what books belong” only make people confused.
This honestly was not convincing whatsoever and I’m a believer 😅. So basically have faith that it’s accurate is what I gathered lol.
Some of what was said did come across as an assertion rather than a well supported logical conclusion.
It seems to me the most convincing argument that God used fallible people to gather His Scriptures is He gave it to fallible people to write it down in the first place. The writing down was the more difficult deed. It does take faith to believe He is in ultimate control of His word at all times.
@@deanfry879 absolutely. Well said 💯
Ehhh trust that since it’s God breathed and God inspired, and non contradictory, that everything that needs to be there is there
So do you homework . Read the early church fathers who mention the books. Read Josephus who mentions the books that were laid up in the Temple.
Faith is never blind nor without reason. Trusting in the Bible is like when we are a child with our parents. First it’s a given, we don’t have much doubt. We don’t even see a need to doubt them if our parents are good and kind. But then we need to see the world for ourselves and grow in our own understanding of what is right and truth. We put what we see to the test, (even if it is an annoyance to our good yet still fallible parents). As we mature we will know by this experience what is good and trustworthy not just because we were taught by our parents. That faith in our parents was tempered by living proof and critical thinking. The Bible speaks for itself. History unfolds to show this, it is not to be chased or trimmed to prove the Bible.
It is an excellent venture to test the Bible in all ways. What is good and trustworthy will always stand when our means of testing are right and true and undertaken with integrity. Just start with what is long proven trustworthy, even if it’s with a few verses, then work outward from there. The Bible holds its integrity faithfully. It will remain under the heaviest of scrutiny as it should. This includes the cannon of the Bible.
I didn't understand what he meant by God chose the canon of scripture 🤔 didn't a church call the council by a bishop of Rome? Well if God worked through his church then the RCC is christ church right!! Of course just using good ol logic😌
Council of hippo( AD 393) canonical, Council of Carthage (AD 397) affirmed the 27 books as authoritative, God worked through his church Matthew 16:18 Jesus has only one church Ephesians 4:1-6👆 (not many denominations) christ head of the church Ephesians 1:21-23 built upon the foundation of his apostles Ephesians 2:19-22....this is how christ church ought to picture Acts 1:12-14 with Mary the new Ark.👉Acts 2:42 notice how it was tradition first, then almost 400 after the canon was completed 😉1timothy 3:14-16 church is the pillar of truth, thank you God😇
I disagree, the church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head. Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” The body of Christ is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ from the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) until Christ’s return. Biblically, we may regard the church in two ways, as the universal church or as the local church.
When it comes to Salvation, the truth is a simple one, Salvation is through Grace by Faith in the work of Jesus Christ that was done in the Cross, it is not by works, so that no one can boast about it in the presence of God, read Ephesians 2:8-10 =)
@Brenoskywalker77 Jesus is head of his church, no one is discarding that fact, we agree no dispute there, you kinda veered of the topic! Jesus is the capstone, ephesians 2: 20-22 but the church is built upon the apostles which he left in charge (a hierarchy) please read Matthew 16:18 the rest of the post...in regards to ephesians 2: 8-10 Paul is talking about the (mosaic Law) which the pharisee imposed on the Hebrews, galatians 5:1-6 (👈 this is what Paul is writing about when he mentions works) -not to be confused with good deeds-😇that is why Jesus saved us from our transgressions of sin by grace, his grace is not of our working its a gift not of ourselves, but we must obey God otherwise we to might be cut of 👉 (warning to believers) Roman's 11:22...
The Bible tells us at Romans 3:2 that God entrusted the Jews with God’s sacred pronouncements. Jesus also alluded to the Jews’ being entrusted with God’s word of salvation and TRUE WORSHIP when he said: “Salvation begins with the Jews.” (John 4:22) Paul was confirming that ONLY the Jews were entrusted with writing the Hebrew-Aramaic portion of the Scriptures, as well as the Christian Greek Scriptures which were composed by the Jewish disciples of Jesus. So, the Jews were custodians of Scriptural knowledge, and they were the ones responsible for composing the books of the ENTIRE BIBLE CANON!
Also, 1 Corinthians 12:10 tells us that God gave some Christians the gift of “discernment of inspired expressions.” That gift included the ability to discern whether an expression was inspired of God or if it originated from some other source. This also helped to discern which letters and writings should be circulated among the congregations and to discern which would become part of the Bible canon. We can be sure that the process of selecting which books to include in the Bible canon was guided by God’s HOLY SPIRIT! No supposed church council was ever needed to determine which letters were inspired of God.
With the death of John, the last apostle, this reliable chain of divinely inspired men came to an end. With the book of Revelation, John’s Gospel, and his three letters, the Bible canon was closed!
Are you guys associated with liberty university?
450 BC - Tanach (Tanahk). 24 books, 3 sections
300-100BC - Septuagint (contains WoS, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, 1,2 Maccabees, Ecclesiasticus)
85 - Marcion of Sinope attempts a canon. much hearesy in his ideology, ex-commed from early church. forced church to respond with a canon.
155 - Polycarp’s letter (to the Philippians) indicates that the early church already considered the Gospels, Acts, and the Epistles as inspired Scripture.
180 - Muratorian Canon. 22 of 27 books. did not include Hebrews, James, Peter 1 & 2, 2 John 3 John, it did include Apocalypse of Peter and Wisdom of Solomon.
313 - Christianity Decriminalized by Constantine.
313 - Eusebius disputes James. 2 Peter, 2&3 John, Jude, Revelation.
336 - Council of Laodicea affirmed 26 NT books. Rejected Revelation
367 - Athanasius makes list of accepted 27 books
384/382 - (Council of Rome ) St. Jerome did not want to include additional books, compelled by church to include them anyway
393 - Synod of Hippo (Hippo Canon) 27 book NT, Recognized by early church. New 33 book + OT canon. 1st "Official" church canon. Regional canons exist.
397 - Counsel of Carthage - Hippo canon confirmed and binding by the church
1054 - Great schism
1522 - Martin Luther canon moved OT (WoS, Ecclesiasticus, Judith, Tobit, Baruch, Maccabees) books to Apocrypha. Considered Hebrews, James, Jude, Revelation as disputed
1545 - Council of Trent. Added back books Luther removed and gave them new title "Deuterocanonical"
1820s - Paper cost increases lead to publishers removing Deuterocanonical books. 73 to 66 books.
The two councils mentioned were councils of the Catholic Church. Who called the councils? It was the pope.
I believe it was actually the emperor that called the councils. As far as I am aware, none of the first 7 ecumenical councils were called by the pope of Rome.
@@feeble_stirrings you believe? Did you research it ? The internet is a powerful tool, look it up.
Remember back then, the pope was human and still human; meaning he wasn’t God
@@johngermain3076 Apologies, I was trying to avoid a more pointed tone. All of the first 7 ecumenical councils were emphatically, without question or qualification called by the emperors of the time. That's not in any way an attempt to diminish or downgrade their importance. I fully acknowledge and submit to their authority as binding upon the Church.
@@feeble_stirrings You mean that the non-born again emperors called the councils that gave authentication and approval to the canons that God inspired? Am choking here. Does this not suggests that the emperors had something to do with collating the books, determining them or influencing how they were determined? May we know the names of the emperors of 7 councils spanning hundreds of years, and other players that worked with God, please? Again, So who, I want names, decided on the pillars: Authority, Ecclesiastical usage, inspiration, and Apostolicity? Please, don't close your heart to the truth. God loves
This video is completely not convincing as how the Bible canon was determined.
It’s because it leaves out all actual history and just makes you go, okay I guess that makes sense. He leaves you with half truths and then says trust God.
He’s vague because the Catholic Church compiled the Bible and declared it the infallible Word of God. He doesn’t want to say that.
how can there be debate when god is the one who said what belongs? interesting
i would call that a "presupposition": we know gd chose the canon because it is what we ended up with.
by this reasoning, then, hasn't gd also allowed the choosing of the writings of the koran, the book of mormon, the vedas, the tripitaka, etc., afterall, if they exists, they too, are his will. and since there is only one gd then everything is chosen by him because it now exists?? i'm not sure i'm comfortable with where this necessarily goes. because you will reject these "other" writings because you believe they are wrong, when they exist no differently than the existence of the bible.
The Church didn't decide which books were canon. lol
Daniel 7 vs 25
Hello, many are committing terrifying
things right now, specially when they
think no one sees them.
Psalms 52(DRB)
52:4. All have gone aside, they
are become unprofitable toegther, there is
none that doth good, no not one.
The canon of the Bible was closed by the early universal (catholic) Church between AD 325 and AD451. The canon include the 27 NT books and 73 OT books. This canon continues to serve today, except that in early 1500’s , some Church protesters opted to remove 7 books from the OT. The Council of Trent reaffirmed the canon following the heresy of the protesters. Protestants refer to these books as apocrypha while Catholics refer to these as Deuterocanonical. Strange how one canon served the Church for around 1100 years as God inspired, yet Protestant men became uninspired by 7 books? And don’t confuse the argument with the Jewish Bible settled in around AD 100, as the 7 books were translated from the existing Hebrew scrolls as the Septuigent around 100BC.
I love how these experts often refer to “Jewish Rabbis.”
Helllloooo??
When did God authorize the protestant church and removing the 7 Apocrypha books? Originally Luther included The Apocrypha.
What were the books GOD inspired? Considering a number of book were REMOVED from the bible by men who decided they didn't fit. Was it God who inspired that action also.
Keeping in mind that Prominent Figures in the Bible made REFERENCE to scriptures that are not in the bible but can be found in the banned books. Who banned the books and why?
Sounds like a cop out.
Why are there references and quotes to read other Scriptures?
That wasn’t a good explanation
God alone picked the canon version? Please tell me how he did that? Was it through sinful, mistake driven men? Remember, all of these accounts were stories. Then written down with many years passing in between. Then different authors wrote these accounts down all at different times and places. Fast forward, then they were selected by the “church” based off which one aligned the best and stayed with the narrative.
My biggest question, if god wanted us to have an accurate account, he could have made it himself? Like he did scribed in stone for the 10 commandments. Boom, absolute facts with no discrepancies. Or, why didn’t Jesus make a book? He turn water into wine. He brought people back from the dead. He walked on water. He died and came back alive and stated teleporting through walls and stuff. Why not snap his fingers and go “here’s a book of all accounts that truly comes from me.”
Let me guess, god works in mysterious ways.
😂 you basically said the Catholic Church Fathers and Councils decided the Canon but then backpeddled
It’s absolutely ridiculous to claim that God and not The Church, determined The NT Canon.
Please provide your evidence…
Lol, what? Are you a believer in Christ or the pope?
That was a ridiculous statement but true to RCC form that the RCC is the only authority & GOD the only true HOLY FATHER & our "only" mediator Jesus Christ not Mary take backseat.
If you have not come to the faith in the Word & that it says it is GOD inspired, GOD breathed & alive then you couldn't & wouldn't believe a GOD that created all things would not have anything to do with the Word we have today. Imagine bring at the judgement seat & being condemned because you didn't do all your homework trying to figure out what was true & what was not, you didn't Google it enough. Nope, if you can't put your faith in GOD alone & HIS Word but only the RCC & it's evil dark history up to this very moment of pedifilia then you can't be helped
You make the assumption that it was God who determined what books were to be in the bible and God "imparting to His followers" but that statement is pretty much meaningless since there is no empirical evidence to prove that statement.
I have asked this question several times. In Leviticus 16, on the day of atonement 2 activities are conducted sin offering and sending goat in the desert. On the cross Jesus became our sin offering as we know and celebrate. But where did he became our goat of departure? The New Testament is silent about that. So where did he?
Thank you so much for this. I get tired of daily, if not more frequent, comments from certain group(s) within Christianity about who decided the contents of the Bible. Now I'll will add this video to any discussions, or actually just point to this video without discussing, to highlight that it was not humans or meetings that decided but GOD alone. Again, thank you.
Did God present the canon to us or did He use men he appointed to tell us what that canon is?
Good video. However, the Catholic Church has always maintained that it was God who inspired the Canon, but that he used men to do so. These men cannot be ignored when the facts are presented, just as Moses as a prophet and other great prophets cannot be ignored when the prophecy of scripture are presented. It is conspiratorial to conclude that the church had nothing to do with it. God's actions on earth in the crimson thread of salvation came through the messages of different prophets and in many ways (Hebrews1:1). Those prophets are known in scripture, just as those who were part of selecting and determining the canons, inspired by the Holy Spirit, are known. I encourage us to read the facts of history. To not recognise them because we do not agree with the Catholic Church, is prejudicial and presentation of incomplete truth. I have read about the church fathers, and know their roles in the formulation of the canons. Please, read without presuppositions.
@@bodenore With one post you have taken this beyond the remit of this video so I am going to keep this short and sweet. Please don't presuppose that RC theology, tradition, and what the RCC "maintains" as truth, is actually reality.
@@michaelau5159 Why?
@@ST-ov8cm because you tell everyone else to "Please, read without presuppositions." so I am telling you to follow your own advice. The evidence against Roman (Latin Rite) Catholicism is beyond circumstantial. People who tell others how to think but are unwilling to follow their own advice are not worth more than a few minutes of anyone else's time. Your time with me is up.
so what about the FAMINE of the WORD in Amos, or the fact GOD tells people to look and see that the SCRIBE worked FALSE BOOKS in Jer 8:8. Or what about when Messiah said the PHARISEES THOUGHT they found eternal life in the recordings but were FUSING to come to him>> John 5:39-43. Or what about when Messiah said the ones that had the law, were REFUSING It and HIDING it - Luke 11:52. What about all the contradictions?? No man was ALLOWED to publish a corruption b/c GOD wants us to DIG FOR HIM and SEEK HIS WORD like a HIDDEN BURIED TREASURE - mat 13:44. But FEW will FIND it - May 7:14.. this why we must ASK SEEK KNOCK - Mat 7:7
The Catholic Church collected, compiled, canonized,named, and declared that the bible is an inspired word of God 😎
The canon of the bible is 73 books not 66 😎👈
OK... you lied already... It was not God who decided which book that should cannanized
Wasn't it the knights templar the ones who went around and did this destruction of all natives and any one that went against their orders? Maybe how all got there? Just saying. Much Love Brother!! Catching up on Videos! Love to you and shamus! ❤
Funny how you give credit to St Ignatius of Antioch, while your site has viewpoints on the Eucharist that he'd consider to be absolutely heretical. Do you know more than someone who directly helped compile the Bible?
Heretics are never consistent.
Thanks!
I keep getting atheists in my video feed who do things like assign man and groups of men various attributes and actions of God.
The speaker danced around the councils at Rome, Hippo and Carthage. The was finally validated at the Council of Carthage in 397. It was the Catholic Church that gave the world the bible. He also didn’t mention that the Geneva and King James when first published in 1565 and 1611 respectively contained 80 books each. In 1881the Geneva bible deleted 14 books. In 1885 the King James bible deleted the same 14 books. These actions contradict Revelation 22:18-19 which states that no books will be added or deleted. The Catholic bible had 73 books in its bible in 397 and today it has the same 73 books, no additions or deletions!!!!
The bitter enemies of the Catholic Church will tie themselves in intricate knots rather than admit that their churches were created by men whose names we know.
Why would we continue to follow the Jews who rejected Christ when they decided to pare down the Old Testament 200+ years after the resurrection and descent of the Holy Spirit, which the Lord promised would guide the CHURCH into all truth?
Yeah, so that's completely misleading and you left so much out.
Secular and RC History both concur, that the Bible was canonized by a counsel of churches that convened in 3-400 AD. It was at this counsel that the Roman Catholic Church was established as well.
FYI, you have mispronounced almost every name of the Church Fathers who you have listed.:/
Is the Catholic Church Jesus’ original church❓
The quotes provided below are historical facts in reference to our early church which existed prior to Romes adoption of Christianity in 313 A.D.
Church:
📖"Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” [St. Ignatius of Antioch - Letter to the Smyrneans 8 (c. A.D. 110)]
Bishop, Priest & Deacon:
📖“Since, then, I have had the privilege of seeing you, through Damas your most worthy bishop, and through your worthy presbyters Bassus and Apollonius, and through my fellow-servant the deacon Sotio, whose friendship may I ever enjoy, because he is subject to the bishop as to the grace of God, and to the presbytery as to the law of Jesus Christ [St. Ignatius of Antioch- Letter to the Magnesians 2 (c. A.D. 110)].
Eucharist:
📖“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ, which have come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God... They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, Ash that suffered for our sins and that the Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes.” [St. Ignatius of Antioch - Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6-7 (c. A.D. 110)].
Scripture:
📖“[W]hoever perverts the sayings of the Lord for his own desires, and says that there is neither resurrection nor judgment, is the firstborn of Satan. Let us leave the foolishness and the false teaching of the crowd and turn back to the word that was delivered to us in the beginning.” [St. Polycrap of Smyrna - Letter to the Philippians 7 (c. A.D. 135)].
Sunday:
📖“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead.” [St. Justin Martyr - First Apology 67 (c. A.D. 151)].
Actions/Works:
📖“We have learned from the prophets, and we believe it is true, that punishments, and chastisements, and good rewards, are rendered according to the merit of each man's actions. If it is not so, then all things happen by fate, and nothing is in our own power. If it is fated that this man be good, and this other evil, the former is not meritorious nor the latter blameworthy [St. Justin Martyr - First Apology 43 (c. A.D. 151)].
Apostolic Succession:
📖“It is within the power of all, in every church, who may wish to see the truth, to contemplate clearly the Tradition of the apostles manifested throughout the whole world; and we are in a position to reckon up those who were instituted bishops in the churches by the apostles, and [to demonstrate] the succession of these men to our own times; those who neither taught nor knew anything these [heretics] rave about.” [St. Irenaeus of Lyons - Against Heresies 3:3:1 (c. A.D. 189)]
Baptism:
📖“The children shall be baptized first. All the children who can answer for themselves, let them answer. If there are any children who cannot answer for themselves, let their parents answer for them, or someone else from their family.” [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 21 (c. A.D. 215)].
Confession:
📖“After this, one of the bishops present, at the request of all, laying his hand on him who is ordained bishop, shall pray this way: O God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. pour forth the power that is from you, of "the princely Spirit' that you delivered to your beloved Child, Jesus Christ, and that he bestowed on your holy apostles, who established the Church that hallows you everywhere, for the endless glory and praise of your name. Father, "who knows the hearts [of all]” grant this servant, who you have chosen for the episcopate, to feed your holy flock and serve as your high priest blamelessly night and day, and unceasingly turn away wrath from your face and offer to you the gifts of the holy Church. And that by the high priestly Spirit he may have authority "to forgive sins" according to your command.” [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 2-3 (c. A.D. 215)].
Confirmation:
📖“The bishop will then lay his hand upon them, invoking, "Lord God, you who have made these worthy of the removal of sins through the bath of regeneration, make them worthy to be filled with your Holy Spirit, grant to them your grace, that they might serve you according to your will, for to you is the glory, Father and Son with the Holy Spirit, in the holy Church, now and throughout the ages of the ages. Amen." After this he pours the oil into his hand, and laying his hand on each of their heads, says, "I anoint you with holy oil in God the Father Almighty, and Christ Jesus, and the Holy Spirit." Then, after sealing each of them on the forehead, he shall give them the kiss of peace and say, "The Lord be with you." And the one who has been baptized shall say, "And with your spirit." So shall he do to each one [St. Hippolytus of Rome - Apostolic Tradition 21-22 (c. A.D. 215).
Peter’s Authority:
📖“The Lord says to Peter: "I say to you,' he says, “that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven. [Mt 16:18-19]. On him he builds the Church, and commands him to feed the sheep [Jn 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed the others were also what Peter was [apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, by which it is made clear that there is one Church and one chair.... If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he think that he holds the faith? If he deserts the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he be confident that he is in the Church?.” [St. Cyprian of Carthage - Unity of the Catholic Church 4; first edition (Treatise 1:4) (A.D. 251)].
These few topics (but a glimpse) were not only discussed but settled BEFORE Rome adopted Christianity (The Catholic Church) and eventually became The Roman Catholic Church as it also adopted its name after 313 A.D.
Is the Catholic Church Jesus’ original church❓Yes❗️
Does this excuse all its mistakes and sins from the record❓Of course not❗️As Christians, we are called to hold the church accountable, not leave it and let evil flourish within it.
This refusal of accountability within every Christian has led to over 40,000 diferente Christian denominations and the ignorance which has flourished from it.
🕊️“This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ. Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church.” Ephesians 4:13-15
We are called by God to unite! What better church to do it under than the one he started.
Regarding your original question, Jesus was a Jew.
Yes Jesus started the catholic (meaning universal) church of which He Himself is the head and the true born again Spirit filled believers is the body.
Later the Romans hijacked true Christianity, mixed it with their pagan beliefs and still pretend to be the original...
Don't confuse the original catholic church with the Roman Catholic church.
@@andrevisser7542 If you can, please read your Bible or take some college courses in reference to Christianity but I’ll try to help as well:
Jesus’ followers within the early 2nd century known as “followers of the way” became known as Christians in the city of Antioch. These early Christians who administered the first structured church established by the Apostles came to be known as the Early Church Fathers, a church that Ignatius of Antioch (early church father) referred to as the Catholic Church 300 years prior to Rome’s adoption of Christianity & it’s name Catholic.
All Gnostic sects which differed from the early church fathers teachings began to rise in popularity in the late 2nd century among Jewish and early “christians”, these sects did not become official until the 3rd century, after the Apostles had already established a structured church administered by the early church fathers and due to their contradictions to who Jesus was, were rejected by the majority of Christians long before Rome’s adoption of Christianity.
Rome adopted not only Christianity but its church name Catholic in 313 A.D. and became the Roman Catholic Church which was accepted by both the east & west and paved the way for Christianity’s expansion.
The Holy Spirit picked the Catholic Church to decide which books it deemed inspired. The Bible many quote and read was compiled by the Catholic Church and accepted by All Christians for centuries.
The schism of 1054 created by Catholics at the time led to the formation of the Orthodox Church.
Then, in the 16th century, the Protestant reformation happen which was created by Catholics at the time. This reformation began with a single Catholic priest named Martin Luther who didn’t have anyone’s support at the time and it was only later after he had established a large following and began to generate revenue to start his own churches that he gained support from others Catholic priests. These ex Catholics then decided to remove 7 books from the original Bible that had already been accepted by all Christians, a removal prohibited by scripture.
The Historical & Biblical illiteracy many freely demonstrate is the reason why this type of ignorance continues to devour Jesus’ church and the main reason why we now have over 40,000 different Christians denominations.
@@markcornelius8802 Did Jesus ask the Apostles to create a new church separate from the Jewish community❓
🕊️“Now I say to you that you are Peter (which means ‘rock’), and upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it. And I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you forbid on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven.” Matthew 16:18-19
Why did Jesus ask the Apostles to create a new church❓
🕊️“The people in Jerusalem and their leaders did not recognize Jesus as the one the prophets had spoken about. Instead, they condemned him, and in doing this they fulfilled the prophets’ words that are read every Sabbath.” Acts of the Apostles 13:27
@@andrevisser7542 Separate from the historical facts I’ve provided, quotes from the early church fathers along with scripture also prove that the Catholic Church is the true church of our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ.
---Church---
📖“Then Barnabas went on to Tarsus to look for Saul. When he found him, he brought him back to Antioch. Both of them stayed there with the church for a full year, teaching large crowds of people. (It was at Antioch that the believers were first called Christians).” Acts of the Apostles 11:25-26
📖“In fact, James, Peter, and John, who were known as pillars of the church, recognized the gift God had given me, and they accepted Barnabas and me as their co-workers. They encouraged us to keep preaching to the Gentiles, while they continued their work with the Jews.” Galatians 2:9
---Peter---
📖“Now I say to you that you are Peter (which means ‘rock’), and upon this rock I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it. And I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you forbid on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven.” Matthew 16:18-19
📖“After breakfast Jesus asked Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?” “Yes, Lord,” Peter replied, “you know I love you.” “Then feed my lambs,” Jesus told him. Jesus repeated the question: “Simon son of John, do you love me?” “Yes, Lord,” Peter said, “you know I love you.” “Then take care of my sheep,” Jesus said. A third time he asked him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt that Jesus asked the question a third time. He said, “Lord, you know everything. You know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Then feed my sheep.” John 21:15-17
---Eucharist---
- Jesus
📖“Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” John 6:49-58
- Apostles
📖“You are reasonable people. Decide for yourselves if what I am saying is true. When we bless the cup at the Lord’s Table, aren’t we sharing in the blood of Christ? And when we break the bread, aren’t we sharing in the body of Christ? And though we are many, we all eat from one loaf of bread, showing that we are one body.” 1 Corinthians 10:15-17
---Scripture---
📖“And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.” Revelation 22:18-19
---Sunday---
📖“On the first day of the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord’s Supper. Paul was preaching to them, and since he was leaving the next day, he kept talking until midnight.” Acts of the Apostles 20:7
---Works---
Jesus:
📖“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’ “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’ “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’ “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’ “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.” Matthew 25:34-46
📖“Wake up! Strengthen what little remains, for even what is left is almost dead. I find that your actions do not meet the requirements of my God.”Revelation 3:2
---Succession---
- Jesus
📖“I have given you an example to follow. Do as I have done to you. I tell you the truth, slaves are not greater than their master. Nor is the messenger more important than the one who sends the message. Now that you know these things, God will bless you for doing them.” John 13:15-17
- Apostles
📖“Dear brothers and sisters, pattern your lives after mine, and learn from those who follow our example.” Philippians 3:17
📖“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” 2 Thessalonians 2:15
📖“And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us.” 2 Thessalonians 3:6
--Baptism & Confirmation--
📖“Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.” John 3:5
📖“Let us go forward, then, to mature teaching and leave behind us the first lessons of the Christian message. We should not lay again the foundation of turning away from useless works and believing in God; of the teaching about baptisms and the laying on of hands; of the resurrection of the dead and the eternal judgement.” Hebrews 6:1-2
📖“For the Holy Spirit had not yet come down on any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.” Acts 8:16-17
---Confession---
- Jesus
📖“Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” John 20:21-23
- Apostles
📖“When you forgive this man, I forgive him, too. And when I forgive whatever needs to be forgiven, I do so with Christ’s authority for your benefit, so that Satan will not outsmart us. For we are familiar with his evil schemes.” 2 Corinthians 2:10-11
---Antioch---
Followers of Jesus were first called Christians in Antioch and it was in Antioch that the word Catholic was first used to described Jesus’ earliest church, 300 years before Rome adopted Christianity! A church that was already established prior to both of those taking place, a church that Paul himself preached from, often visiting it and it was even there were he corrected Peter. Antioch was of such importance within early Christianity that Prophets and teachers were among its members as well.
Paul Corrects Peter:
📖“But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong.” Galatians 2:11
Prophets & Teachers:
📖“Among the prophets and teachers of the church at Antioch of Syria were Barnabas, Simeon (called “the black man”), Lucius (from Cyrene), Manaen (the childhood companion of King Herod Antipas), and Saul.”Acts of the Apostles 13:1
Church already established:
📖“Finally, they returned by ship to Antioch of Syria, where their journey had begun. The believers there had entrusted them to the grace of God to do the work they had now completed. Upon arriving in Antioch, they called the church together and reported everything God had done through them and how he had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles, too. And they stayed there with the believers for a long time.” Acts of the Apostles 14:26-28
Antioch is a prime example of why the Catholic Church is in fact Jesus’ original church.
a couple of historical points that need to be considered. 1) the fact that through the 4th century the church fathers never were in 1005 agreement of the 27 books of the canon. 2) not only were they not in agreement but their would-be canons were GROWING during this time. 3) This did in fact creat confusion in the church - enter the 3 councils of Hippo, Rome and Carthage. What other reason for their existence is there but to clear up the confusion and shortly after we see the canon throughout the church solidified.
You are correct God ultimately did this wonderful and mighty task, just as He ultimately did when the writers put pin to papyri yet we all say it was Paul who actually wrote the book of Romans. If there was no council that determined the canon based on your paradigm, then Paul did not write the book of Romans either. 🤷🏽♂
The Catholic Church ratified the canon of scripture. This is a historical fact.
I don’t know enough of history to argue that specific point, but I know the Catholic Church in the 3-5th century is vastly different than it is today or was 500 years ago. So the claim doesn’t mean much
Also, if the Catholic Church ratified the canon, why did it wait another 1200 years to ratify to Deutero-canonical books?
I don't follow your logic. You say that the councils decided on the canon but then you also say that it was God's decision. Do you mean the council represents God? Makes no sense to me. God never made any revelation to any prophet or apostle regarding the canon. It was men who made the canon.
I believe ever words of it.
“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).
“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).
Technically, no, it didn’t. It wasn’t meant to be a book. It was meant to be passed on verbally everything changed when the printing press came to be.
God didn't write the Bible man did. Claiming God inspired man to write the Bible is ridiculous. It took men centuries to even compile and then decide on the canon. It's a claim nobody can refute. Just ask the Muslims.
Great insight
False insight
What would you say about accordingly the it was the Roman catholics who compiled the the bible?
The truth will never be acknowledged as that highlights that Prots are using a Bible codified by the CC in 382. Who gave Luther authority to remove 7 books? Deut 4:2.
That's a pretty decent summary but it is incomplete. The Codex Vaticanus (325 AD) and Codex Sinaiticus (350 AD) are the oldest full bible manuscripts scholars have found. They both include most of the new testament and the Deuterocanonicals. Next, at the Synod of Rome under Pope Damases (383), the cannon was declared. Yes, it was a regional council, but any regional council overseen by the Pope is universally binding. Please note the councils of Hippo (393), which you mentioned, and Carthage (393) and again in 413, both affirmed the 73 book cannon. It was at the Ecumenical council of Florence int 1492 that the canon was affirmed once again, and then finally at the council of Trent in 1546 in response to the reformation. As you can see, for most of Christian history, the bible included the Deuterocanonicals (Apocrypha). It was only when Martin Luther tried to remove them, along with 4 books of the New Testament (James, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation) that the Church felt the need to address the issue.
Jesus recognized the books of Moses, the historical books, the Psalms & the prophers. He never mentioned or quoted any of the Apocryphal. Neither the other human authors of the NT
Jesus and the Apostles used and quoted from the Septuagint which included the deuterocanonical books. If the standard you use to determine which books are canonical is Jesus or the Apostles must have quoted them, you would have to exclude Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Zephaniah, Nahum, Ezra, Nehamiah, Obadiah and Ester. I don't think any Protestant sect would do that. Never the less, there are plenty of allusions to the Deuterocanonical books. (Matthew 6:14-15: “If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you.” Sirach 28:2: “Forgive your neighbor’s injustice, then when you pray your own sins will be forgiven.”) ( Romans 11:34: “For who has known the mind of the Lord or who has been his counselor?” Wisdom 9:13: “For what man knows God’s counsel, or who can conceive what the Lord intends?” ). There are others, of course, these are just a couple of examples.
Who told you what the bible is? Catholic church did in 4th century.
same can be said about the canon by marcion in the first century how did they know what they had was divine word of God we need to nderstand that tge reason the true church rejected it was because they already knew what was inspired word and knew that canon rejected much of it
The Jews inherited the Old Testament Scriptures about 200 years before Christ. The Scriptures were already compiled by then and the New testament was compiled by the late 200's ad. The RCC didn't come on the scene until late 300 ad and an evil pope wasn't in place until around 590 ad. So, if you are referring to the Roman Catholic Church it is an apostate church if it were ever in the body of Christ to begin with and it worked overtime in keeping the Scriptures from the people because it is of the Adversary not God Almighty.
“It was God and God alone who determined the books of the Bible.” This is the kind of statement that is made by people who close their minds to the pesky history that dispels their dogmatic narrative. In the end, humans made decisions about which books to include based on their best judgment. As the video suggests, selection criteria were used, meaning the process wasn’t random. Some say insight about screening standards was provided by the Holy Spirit. That’s fine, but the Bible is still a product of human minds that led earthly institutions. The historical record of the actual events is beyond a reasonable doubt.
Half truths are also lies.
The Apocrypha are considered as canon , in the Eastern Orthodox Church. The Church assembled the Bible. If you believe in the Bible, you need to believe in the Councils that assembled it.
Faith is not based on the Bible but on the Church that vouches for the Bible.
@@indigofenrir7236 God is the Head of the Church. The rest of the body, is comprised by the people. In that Context the Church is devine union that existed before the creation of man. The first Church was not created in Pentecost. The first Ecclesia was the Holy Trinity.
Besides that, there were Christian around, long before Bible was fully assembled.
@@indigofenrir7236 I am Orthodox Christian. We do not believe in purgatory, we do not have a pope, we do not believe in the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary. What you call Apocrypha, we call normal Bible , we included them from the very start of the assembly of the Bible....
@@indigofenrir7236 Councils are made up of humans. The Bible was written and assembled by humans too. Over the course of centuries. During that time Christians did not have a Bible, only a Church. And the people trusted that Church to give them the Bible .
@@indigofenrir7236 Christ and Church are one body. :
For we were all baptized by ONE Spirit so as to form ONE body-whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free-and we were all given the ONE Spirit to drink.
(1 Corinthians 12:13)
@@indigofenrir7236 Christ is infallible, humans are not (only the Pope thinks he is), but the Church/Ecclesia as a whole, Is Infallible guide to Salvation. The Church that assembled the Bible, was filled with humans with sins, but that Church, Vouches for the Bible. So if you don't follow the same Church, you can't prove that the Bible is a guide to the Truth. The people in the Synods (there were several, over the course of centuries) that assembled the Bible, practiced infant baptism. If you take one (Bible) and not the other (Infant baptism) it just does not make any sense...The same (inperfect) vouched for both.
Having said that, there are cases that Baptism is not needed eg Martyrs of Christ. They were Baptised in Blood of their Sacrifice.
Jesus never said anything about the so-called "apocrypha"
On the Apocrypha or Deuterocanonical books. These are additional books of the Greek Septuagint Old Testament Bible and they should be in our Bible today because it is the Bible Jesus and the Apostles had. Jesus doesn’t quote from these books but the Apostles do so if they found value in them perhaps we should give them a place or at least not disregard them entirely or consider them heretic in any manner.
Show me when the apostles quote them
Canon Selected by catholic priests. Old Testament is not necessary for a new believer. Only few books in the old Testament is enough.The canon is not at all by the Holy Spirit. You are wrong.