This COMPLETELY Transformed My KICK DRUM SOUND | Recording Drums In A HOME STUDIO
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What's your go to microphone(s) and placement??
lol I use addictive drums, they know better than me
Shure 91 boundary mic inside the kick. Gotta try one!
I've always loved the Audix D6 for heavy music and the Shure Beta52 for pretty much everything else!
I use a combo of Audix D6 in the port hole with a Shure Beta 91A inside the bass mounted on a Kelly SHU. Most of my mixing is done on a Tascam Model 24. I occasionally pull the stems and mess with those in Cakewalk. BTW, Cakewalk is a free DAW.
Edit 4-27-2020 @ 10:07 AM
My other mics I use on my drums are:
4 × Audix Micro-D (I use these on my toms mostly, and side snares). These are great sounding mics.
3 × Audix D2 (recently got a 3 pack of these a couple months ago for my toms)
2 × Audix f15 (generally use these for my Hi-hats and ride cymbal/aux percussion above bass drum)
2 × Audix i5 (top and bottom mics for main snare usually)
1 × Audix D6 (port hole of bass drum)
1 × Shure Beta 91A (internally mounted on a Kelly SHU)
2 × Audix CX212 (Great overheads that can be used for amps or vocals. They are very versatile and sound good on anything nearly)
5 × Audix ADX-90 (1st set of mics ever, great mic for the price. Can use on snares/toms/aux percussion/cymbals in some situations even.)
1 × Audix f10 (Came with the ADX-90s: a decent mic for a snare/higher pitched toms/guitar amps.)
1 × Audix f12 (Came with f10: this mic is similar to the f10 except has a lower frequency range for which it picks up. It can be used on floor toms/bass drum/bass amps. Can be used for the same things as f10 too)
Hey so I got a resonant head without a hole. And I'm not really willing to cut a hole into it. I will use 2 mics though. I think I will aim a 57 to the beater and an AKG to get the reso head. But I first have to deal with my acoustics in my cabin
What really makes the kick drum sound (to me) is what comes out of it in the overheads and room mics
Top tip: make sure you replace your kick drum resonant head regularly. It's arguably the drum that gets hit the most, but a lot of drummers don't want to lose the logo head on the resonant side or feel it doesn't affect the sound that much. However it does lose its elasticity over time, and that does have an effect on the sound. I was recording a band last year whose drummer hadn't replaced it in 15+ years. It was flat and papery sounding, missing any weight and depth to the sound. Swapped out the reso, and all the low end and warmth came back.
For sure. Also, resonant heads that are included by the manufacturer tend to be cheaper and thinner. Same goes for toms. So even replacing them once will go a LONG way in getting fuller tones.
I use a shure PG 52 inside the kick, WA 47jr on the outside about 20-30cm away from the reso head and I also use a DIY sub kick mic mounted to a snare stand I made out of an old 7in monitor woofer. When I added the Sub mic it made the low end magical. I get phase and levels right and send them to a bus where i do my processing
Ended up recording drums once where the kick had an AKG D112 close to the batter side inside the kick, and a Behringer BA 19a boundary mic about 2 feet in front of the kick on the floor. Gave a serious amount of attack while also a solid punch and image of the kick. Definitely going to be utilizing it in the future. Awesome video man!
In my experience miking in the center of the kick yields a weaker sound. Inside mic I like off to the side pointed at the beater with a beta52. Outside mic about 6 inches away from the head and about 4-5 inches left of center with a large diaphragm condenser.
Same here
Very true! That’s intentional.
Pure respect. thanks again. You got a new follower
Yep. And when you space the outside mic from the inside mic just right, they'll be in phase/time aligned. I made a jig mic stand that both were mounted on. That way I kept the phase.
Subkick. Without a sub, it's hard to get that beefy fat sound of the kick. Then you compress that and add it to the front and beater mics. Altogether, you feed it to external sidechain for compression (I like to use 1176) and then blend it to the drums mix.
Best video on the subject I've found
Thanks, exactly what I needed to learn.
I use an 18" Yamaha Kick drum with Powerstroke 3 batter head with u87 clone pointed at the batter next to the beater contact point (Felt beater). Then I blend it with a Mxl R144 ribbon out front at various distances with resonant head off and a towel for dampening inside drum touching batter head. If I'm not happy with that then I'll sometimes use a Beta 52a just inside the shell for a third option to blend. Between the 3 I get fat and clear signal to blend.
I love that sound of 18" kick, thank you for that tips
Thanks!
one of the best kick sounds I ever got was a 57 inside (highpassed at 80HZ) and a Oktava 012 about a foot in front of the kick. Sounded exactly like the kick drum. No idea why I never see people use SDC on kick... it rules.
If you ever get the time it would be cool to hear the differences in a mix.
That SJC kick sounds massive!
D112 in, about 6'' off the beater (try a couple '' above the beater also to differentiate the kick's signature from floor toms and negate snare bounce-back off the floor) then a E/V ND46 on the beater side same distance with phase flipped pointed dead-on to the beater/head contact point. Then bring in a condenser from in front (I go a little farther than most, around 1' out and at least 4'' away from the port!!! play with these distances to get them in-phase with the beater-side ND46). The beater side mic is crucial for the Bonham slap thing. Listen back to any Zep album and it's super clear there's a beater side mic because he always used the same squeaky kick pedal that would only come through beater side. It's there in LZ 1 all the way to In Through The Out Door. Without that and the right amount of fast compression (~8ms attack / ~ 40ms release) on it you get no SCHWACK! A head is a head is a head is a head is a head, don't go thinking the kick head is some different beast just because it's bigger, its surface hits are just as important as any other drum when it comes to the perception of punch/slap. Play with that setup for a while (couple hours until you zero in on it) and you will be rewarded. Try it live at your own risk, I advise against it unless you KNOW about stage monitor phase issues and multi-mic'ing for foh. In studio, it's a must.
Note: You'll almost definitely want to cut lows beater-side, say, start with a 6db shelf -10db at 300hz (sloping up to around 1k) and play around from there. That mic isn't really there for body or beef but the transients and impulses 1.4k and up. You could get lucky with the room and phase and gain something 250hz-750hz but if you don't it's no biggie. You're likely cutting that range with the D112 anyway. Scoop to taste but learn from that 1.4k to 2.8k range where the slap is, you might even dig it higher than that, depends on the mix, if the kick is dark or some hollow/woody old Slingerland, etc.
That 18 sounds beast bro hope you didn't get rid of that one! Nice vid 👍👍
Micing the batter head near the rim is a good way to utilise 1 mic.
Gets a good full sound, and adjusting the angle gives you a different ratio of tone to attack, just gotta tune the kick well. Very versatile sound imo.
Yep, I have to use 2 mics on my bass drum. I use a Shure Beta 52a inside and a Shure SM7b outside. It sounds awesome!.!
Nice
Funny AND informative, thanks again
I like doing something similar to what you mention here. If you use a figure 8 condenser instead of a cardioid (and maybe place it a little further), you will get a killer kick drum sound. This will also depend on how the room sounds, but if the room is fine, you will get a much deeper sound.
Definitely! Cheers!
The explanation behind this is because figure 8 has the most proximity effect out of all polar patterns. Something to try too is a small diaphragm omnidirectional mic like a Schoeps MK 2h or a DPA 4090. You'll need to place this mic a bit further from the kick drum but it will capture the low-end really well since actual omnidirectional microphones (not dual-diaphragm cardioids) Can capture sound smoothly to 20hz and most even bellow that. The reason you need to place it further is that the Omni doesn't have a proximity effect and will need the waveform to develop fully. Also, Omnidirectional mics sound the most natural over the whole frequency spectrum since there is only one part in the frequency range where the capsule needs to be compensated. While a cardioid mic needs multiple bands of compensation to get a flat response. (Oops, I got carried away a bit.)
@@BoboButYouCanCallMeTom I'd agree with almost everything you wrote, except one pesky myth that I thought had disappeared - the need for waveforms to "develop". If you think about it carefully, it has no meaning - the frequencies can be heard at any point along the axis of the wavefront. It's the same reasoning used to posit that bass sounds boomier at a certain distance from the driver - except it doesn't. Most likely the effect is hearing a higher proportion of reflected sound v the original, which might make it sound fuller.
Pretty sure earbuds with good bass can go down to at least 30Hz, and they're certainly not 11 meters long last time I checked ;)
I finally smashed the like button. I only did that cause you said the most important thing. THE INSTRUMENT HAS TO SOUND GOOD FROM THE START!
Makes it a lot easier on the engineer!
@@AndrewMasters A lot easier! I enjoy your channel a lot. Keep up the good work!
Drummers doesen't take care of their drum afination very often and is a must... Keep the good work! Thanks for the vid!
Do you find much difference in sound for having the 18 on the floor rather than a riser? Does the short beater length not bother you for feel?
Andy its so hard these days with the slate triggers SD3 etc but I love the content bro ... Please keep making vids they are rad and so are you my man ..
haha Thanks! Don't need to track live drums in all circumstances. But I make these for people I know who are getting started and confused on these specific topics.
@@AndrewMasters I love it Andy :P
For those of us who can't throw $500 at a secondary kick mic, could you get a similar increase in detail using a generic budget LDC (say, a T.Bone SC400)? We're not capturing a piano here, after all; a kick is just a short transient.
Increase in detail yes. Increased low end? Maybe, it really depends on the eq curve of the microphone, if it rolls off at 80hz for instance then not that much.
try an e602II, the response curve is basically what you would EQ a typical kickdrum to anyway, without the freq-dependent phase-shift. (or, a considered phase response across bandwidth)
I found the Beta52's response curve to not align with many usable results (and with an extreme notch in the "wrong" place, lots of corrective EQ required).
I found the D112 to have too much midrange and require a lot of scooping, and, of course the SM57 lacked bass and had a honking midrange that was very un-kick-drum-like.
Obviously this is subjective, but considered across various styles of kick drums and their setups, and various genres, I feel that the Sennheiser e602II is the best kick drum mic from the common industry choices on offer. When in front of the sound hole, I had to cut bass, whereas in the INSIDE position aimed at the batter head, it "just works". I've used this with a PDP 22", a Tama Swingstar 22", and despite their physical differences, the mic captures the essential kick part of the sound. If anything, it's a bit the sound of the mic, rather than the drum, which could be consistent, and yet it sits so nicely in the mix everytime. I guess they have some notion of what they are building, although it is also used on horns and guitar cabinets,FWIW...
Great video, in addition to this I would say the key to a great recording starts with the musician, no matter what the instrument. Even on the same drums, someone like Vinnie will sound a million times better playing the same simple pattern than your average player because of how they hit each drum with confidence and an even touch.
Then as you say, start with the instrument sounding good to your ears before even thinking of mic choice etc
Thanks for the video, really enjoyed it 👍🏻
Using a ribbon helps; it can be done with the aid of a pop filter. This is how they mic'd the kick at Motown, according to Bob Ohlsson. The modern philosophy seems to align with a very "pingy" kick drum sound, but IMHO this comes at the expense of the listener's ability to perceive the sub-bass frequencies--a big problem when you consider the kick is the only instrument in a typical mix that can truly reproduce these frequencies within its normal register. It will require EQ to bring out the attack and subdue the 100hz mud but it is well worth the effort because it captures the true sub-bass frequencies much cleaner than a condenser--the type of transformer used in the WA87 and most 87 type fet mics has small cores that saturate at bass frequencies when hit with high level (like that of a close-miked kick), producing distortion, poor phase coherence, and severely curtailed response. Ribbons are simple to make if you're the DIY type, cheap to buy, and if you are using it as a kick mic the shitty transformers used in low end ribbons are not a big deal because you're not using the top end.
Great comparison. I am liking D112 more and more. Maybe I'm just tired with my b52a
It’s nice to have options! I think with some kick drums the b52 works great!
Would be cool to see a video where you craft different kick tones suitable for different styles, tempos
Man how is possible you don't have tons of subs?!
Great videos!
Hi From Italy!
Haha thanks! Stay safe over there!
@@AndrewMasters yeah ahahah some really boring/stressfull time here
At least i'm plenty of time in experimenting new sounds for my "studio" just using what I have at home, they asked me to close my studio so I'm buried at home just with a macbook and a pair of headphones ahahah
Btw keep going!
Thank you
Def thought that was a 20” x14” slingerland kick, but I’ve def used my 18” for a punchy traditional kick sound
Yeah it sounds pretty good for its size. I would love to get a 20 x 14 as well!
Bone Mic is where it's at. With a ribbon. God bless Tchad Blake
This SJC Kick drum sounds weird regardless of the mic. It has like two sounds in it. The click which is totally separated and artificial sounding + low end mud tail which comes second after the click sound.
Is that slingerland actually 18"? Sounds awesome.
How low are you tuning your kick drum heads? How much dampening inside? Thanks!
Zack Hames yes sir, 18”x14” I have a small throw pillow inside the drum. It just barely touches both heads. Bothe heads are about one turn past finger tight (if that makes sense) the heads are not loose but they are not super tight by any means.
@@AndrewMasters Try measuring that kick. Really looks like a 20x14" when looking at your other videos. But great video man!!
SM57 inside (close to the beater) and D112 looking into the hole.
Your kick sounds great! Do you phase allign the inside and outside kick? Any favorite mixing moves on kick?
I get the kick sound with the mic placement, and double check by flipping the polarity. I made a video about it if you want to check it out. Nothing special for mixing, little eq and compression. I show how I do it in my latest uploads.
Those '70s 14in deep kicks were awesome. I used to play in a band with a drummer that have a 14x22in Slingerland kick. It sounded so good.
Is that a clear power stroke you're using on both batter sides?
18" Kick has Power Stroke remo head. 24" has EMAD 2 head. Yeah I dig it!
Shure 91A inside, AKG D112 at the port, U47 or AKG4047 or your favorite LDC outside. Never fails.
What's your thoughts on micing the batter head on the beater side
Could someone help explain the kick drum sound and low end balance with the bass on Khruangbin’s album Con Todo El Mundo?
The bass occupies the sub-low frequencies while the kick drum sits around the 2nd harmonic of its note, somewhere between 100/160hz.
I think it sounds too plinky if the kick mic is centered in the drum. Too many resonance waves colliding. I like my Beta52 about halfway between the centerpoint and the rim and 6" away from the skin for most styles. Maybe a little closer to the beaters and 4" away if it is heavy on blast beats. I also built a subkick mic for the resonant head. They sound awesome blended. Otherwise I would use an omni or ldc on the reso head maybe 6-12" away. Gotta play with the field. The sound wave doesn't really develop until it is about a foot away from the drum.
What about the style or type of beater?
what about the expensive preamp for that expensive mic api 1073 avalon etc
Best way to mic a kick is like the other elements of the drum.. from the batter side. Have you ever tried it Andrew?
Yes! I like it for very specific styles of music, but not for everything. Especially if I don't want much of the beater sound in the song.
awesome video, thanks. do you know how to use Digital Performer by MOTU?
Thanks, I have not used it.
What are your tips to get so little bleed on the outside mic?
Proximity is a factor, and then isolation. Check out this video I sort of walk through how I do that using a blanket. th-cam.com/video/-dsK8p8lpqI/w-d-xo.html
I agree with the guy who has a white t-shirt.
When you use 2 mics on the kick do you usually have to flip the phase on one of the mics? If so, which mic?
I do if the mics are out of phase, I try to make sure the position of the mics are so that they are as close to being in phase or perfectly out of phase as possible. I usually solo the over heads with the kick mics and will see which sounds better to flip.
If you solo the kick mics and flip the polarity on one, the kick will either fatten up or sound really weak. If it fattens up, they were out of phase.
@@Mikhail72051 Right on. Without accurate monitoring sometimes its hard to tell. I started using different sources to compensate for the acoustics in my mixing room which helped me out greatly. Thanks.
@@AndrewMasters Last question: Do you tend to keep the two mics on any given source, a certain amount of feet apart from eachother to avoid phase issues? I'm also wondering about room mics. Is there a certain distance to put between the kit mics and the room mics? I've heard at least 6 feet away from the kit for room mics. I've been doing only 3 feet and I always seem to run into some phase issues.
Do you check phase on your 2 kick mics? How and when?
Yes of course. I’ll check at the kit at first. Solo the two mics, and flip polarity. I always am looking for the most drastic change in sound when I flip it. I’ll adjust mics until I feel better, then record a bit and go double check the phase at the computer. Not ideal, but for a one man show it’s pretty simple.
@@AndrewMasters ok so the greater the sound change the greater phase cancellation I suppose.
Yes. Exactly, the goal for me, is that if I hit the polarity button and most of the frequencies disappear then I'm good so when I disengage it I'm getting nearly perfect phase.
Had to pause to put on headphones
That 87 looks backwards, what polar pattern is that?
It's in cardioid. The back of the 87 is where the pad and the hpf switches are. The polar pattern switch is on the front.
tbh I'm surprised how "thin" that 24" kick sounds with the different mic placements
It's tuned way too low as well. My 24 has almost the same punch as the 18 because you have to tune them higher than you would a 22.
Got it all muffled sounding to me, slappy and thin and dead. Might as well just remove the bass drum and it is that a bass drum not a kick drum 🙄. Sounds like a cardboard box full of pillows
I used 3 mic to record my kick
Andrew, in all your examples of the mic placement you show a kick drum with a port hole. Does that mean you don't even consider a kick drum without a port hole?' Am asking because we recently git a Behringer X32 and want our drummer to make a port hole in his kick drum but he refuses because he says he has seen many yt video's by sound techs stating that port holes cause a horrible click sound and only are used by sound techs who don't know how to EQ / Filter a kick drum properly. But there are also plenty other yt video's that are pro kick port. Confusing....
Need put a pop filter on the kick drum
Inside, Sennheiser e602- Outside, AKG P420....for now.
Jesus, everyone on the internet is Ryan George these days.
Never heard of him, what’s the deal?
@@AndrewMasters What, me bro?
Get on that sub kick game
haha soon enough young skywalker.
You could always make your own
Max Dickenson true, are you asking for a sub kick vs kick out mic comparison?
Andrew Masters you know me too well
Sub-kick - yummy!
Don't believe the hype. You don't need a port hole in a resonant head. You can get way meatier and fuller bass drum sounds with an intact reso head. If you want more attack, stick a mic (any mic) by the beater too. Try it out.
Why don’t we fill the toms with moving quilts too !
And duct tape the strings on the bass and guitars…. We could get rid of ALL of the tone!
Yes my comments are a little exaggerated…. But ( in my opinion) we are chasing each other done the path of less and less tone.
A properly tuned kick, a mic inside and one outside... dude what does COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED YOUR KICK SOUND exactly? You described an every day kick mic placement that every studio in the world does...
When I started I had no idea what I was doing with miking a kick, or how dampening and tuning affected the kick sound. For people who are trying to understand some basic moves to improve their process, it can and does completely transform the results you get.
NO….. recording sounds like a real live bass drum… and frankly the world is getting away that crap…
1) I’ve been both a classical / orchestral percussionist which includes playing 48” bass drums with huge bass drum beaters…. And almost NEVER did we mute, muffle or dampen the drum… the natural big round open dark floor…. Is…the…sound….
And just like we claim that the sound of a 1960s guitar amp is Hi Fi….. ITS NOT….. it’s not a lovable sound because the amp is so clean… the sound is lovable because it’s the sound we remember…. Like moms meatloaf that SUCKED…. but you love it because it is MOMS meatloaf….
Now…. We are buying into a dryer and more and more deadened bass drum tone…. THEN WHY BOTHER PAYING 600 damn dollars for a solid oak gold plated toilet that the first thing you do is stuff full of toilet paper and moving quilts. Just get a damn cardboard box out of a dumpster , mic the hell out of it and then layer on effects like McDonalds hides their crap under a pile of ketchup.
There is a middle ground…
And like politics most drummers and recording techs…. Are WAAAYYYYYYYY beyond middle.
In the 60s ( was it the Z Philly sound or mo-town) the P bass added foam under the Crome cover to mute the strings…. That sound is LONNNNG GONE.
ARTICULATION…? Ok… sure…. Cardboard box with a mic in it….? Actually I DID do that for rehearsing with a disco band in the 80s… no thank you
Every time I see a D12 I want to post how crappy that mic is. That mic SUCKS! etc.. I look and sound like a stupid troll. I just can't stand it.
A Shure SM 57 has better results and control than that crazy, all-over the pace, hot output AKG D112. 2:44 Sound like an ordinary dynamic mic inside.
So you can just put a SM57 inside for the attack and a nice Large condenser on the outside.
Heck a simple DIY Sub-Mic and a simple SM57 will get you way better result than that D112. And leave your nice WA 87 Condenser mic for vocals.
My 2 cents from an old fart.
But, shitty sounding kick drums can come from good sounding kick drums.
Amen.
@@AndrewMasters - Glad you knew where I was coming from.
That WA-87 sounds so poor, like lacking finesse
When you have a sick bass drum and a shit mic.....it sounds shit
Worst intro music possibly ever
That’s my thing
sontronics dm-1b is a way better bass drum mic than dpa 4055. sontronics dm-1b is tighter , more open sound and realistic than dpa 4055.sontronics dm-1b captures the whole sound of the bass drum! check this comparison th-cam.com/video/DT6uWos9clY/w-d-xo.html
just get a akg d12 and thank me later.. that 112 sounds awful