I have AKG D112s built in to both of my bass drums (via the old Randall May internal miking system) and in both cases I have them in the lower center of the the drum, just barely above the dampening pillow and with the back of the mic almost touching the front (resonant) head. That mic has a reputation of being rather "clicky" and I don't really like that sound for what I do musically. But dropping the mic position down a little from where the beater strikes lessened that effect just enough while still giving me a ton of low end. Ironically the reason that I mounted them this way was because I was randomly reading the book that came with the D112 and there is an illustration that shows that exact placement. I'm glad I read the instructions for once!
After years of chasing tone I found placing the mic on the outside of the beater head facing where the kick impacts the bass drum, great tone! but thanks for the vid! they are informative and easy to interpret!
Great video - can't wait for the rest of the series! It would have been nice to see you hit the bass drum harder but, all in all, it demonstrates each microphone nicely.
One thing that wasn't mentioned that can play just as big of a role in mic choice/placement is playing with or without burying the beater. Burying the beater cuts the note short and more free of sustain (like palm muting a guitar), while not burying the beater yields a much more solid, "thunderous" low end. So definitely pay attention to how the player is using his pedals and ask yourself "is this person burying the beater? and which mic should I use to compensate for whether they are or are not". For instance, if they bury the beater, you may want the beta 52 or D6 because it'll help make up for the lack of low end. But if they don't bury the beater, you'll already have plenty of low end and the beta 91 will retain that while adding that clicky attack. Maybe pair it with something with less click like a D112 or RE20 as an out mic for a kick that sounds thick, full and has plenty of top end click with low end punch that hits your chest.
Are you keeping the front skin off during tracking or just positioning the mic through the port hole? Also, what mic stand do you find is the easiest adjust when going through the hole? Would be cool to include this in a future video. Keep up the great work.
I use 4 mics on my kick, but my mounted Beta 91 is about 70% of my kick sound. And it's so convenient for live playing because when you have it mounted in the shell, you get repeatable, great results.
That’s a smart approach for sure. The 91 pairs nice with the 52 as well -Miami
3 ปีที่แล้ว +1
Great comparison, thanks! Do you think leaving the resonant head off makes a great difference? Glad to see Josh using hearing protection during the test, it's hugely important but unfortunately overlooked most of the time.
Although I don't disagree with your suggestions, it might be helpful to demonstrate how you'd mic a bass drum with both heads intact. There's a reason that drums have two heads, and I prefer this Bonham type boom. I used to get get pretty tired of sound engineers muting the crap out of my kit. I want the clang in my snare drum and the boom in my bass drum. Just saying.
Hey abel, what's your mic setup (especially for kick)? Any particular mixing plugin you guys are using? We are witnessing and hearing one of the best drum sound without even us realizing.
Clutch. Just got my first set of mics for my drums. Oktava MK 12 for overhead and two Shure 57s, one for bass drum and one for snare. How are 57s for the bass drum? One day I’ll prob upgrade to a more kick specific mic but for now hopefully it works
great video and content. but i cant help but laugh. these videos give me the vibes of the science vids we’d watch in elementary school on vhs. educational but also very 90s. 😂
B52 was my favourite, wasn't so keen on the RE20. What do you recommend for live mic placement when the kick doesn't have a hole and the drummer wont take the skin off? Mostly work with rock/indie bands
If it's less aggressive rock/indie music where you don't NEED a ton of attack from the kick, then you'll usually be fine just putting a mic on the reso head. Making sure to roll off the low end around 50/60hz, cut out around 300 - 500 depending on need. If you want to add attack, then put a light bump in the 4-5k. Don't go too aggressive with this or you risk getting too much bleed from the rest of the kit. If you have the mics/inputs available, you can mic the batter side of the kick drum as well. You can sneak a 57 (or something similar) around the kick and point it toward the beater, then blend the 2. Make sure to check for phase alignment with that of course. If you can't add the mic to the front of the batter side of the kick, but still need more attack, try having the drummer tune the reso head up a little bit, this'll give the you more usable frequencies to work with to find one that cuts through. Again, the typical roll off of sub frequencies below 50 or 60 is helpful, and a cut around 300 - 500 to taste, but with the reso head tuned up that cut of the mids will almost feel like there's a boost to the attack by focusing out unpleasant sounds. Still need more attack, then just mic the batter side of the kick, and don't bother putting a mic on the reso side. It's uncommon, but dangit, it works. You'll need to get creative with the EQ through, because you'll have A LOT of attack to work with. haha.
@@patrickfouhy9102 legend, thanks for this. I did try this once with great results then every time I've tried since it hasn't been as successful. Could have been phase cancellation or just bad mic placement but I'll definitely give it another go. Cheers
@@Furoraband Okay, so I got to thinking about this even more and I went to my studio and started messing around with exploring new ways to mic a kick. My main kick has a non ported reso head because I have a D6 mounted inside. So I did some experimenting, and I think this'll help you. For this, I didn't use the internal mic, just mics on the outside of the drum. First thing, forget about putting a mic on the head of the drum, it sounds crazy I know, instead put the mic pointing directly at the hoop. To understand what I'm saying, imagine you're standing in front of the kick drum, you point the mic directly down toward the floor, but position it so it's essentially pointing at the hoop of the drum about an inch away. Rotate the mic around the drum as needed to fit around the other drums, I found that putting it at 12:00, or 9:00 or 3:00 tended to help the most with bleed, but keep the mic facing the hoop and about an inch away. To put it another way, make the mic perpendicular to the drum, and pointed toward the hoop. Do a mid scoop around 350 - 500 hz, and bingo, you got a full kick sound with plenty of attack, no "basketball" sound of an internal mic to worry about, no papery "woof" of a reso head mic. If you need more low end, put a bump around 60hz or so. I tried this with a large diaphragm condenser (AKG 214) and Audix D6, and an SM57. All sounded great. The D6 required the least amount of EQ, for obvious reasons. Now here's the fun part, if you want more attack, mic the batter side hoop. If you want more body, mic the reso side hoop. If you have the means, mic them both, it sounds fantastic. (You will need to flip the phase of one of the them if you use 2 mics) I've got a drummer coming in for a session this weekend, I'm going to give it a try and see how it works in a "real" setting.
I actually think uncut reso heads have more punch. Hopefully the drum is dampened properly for the genre. I feel like the uncut reso is moving just like the diaphragm of a dynamic mic and translates a nice sound pressure wave directly into it.
I don't understand how he can say he uses an RE20 for country bass drum. In my 40 years of life I've never thought "wow, that sounds like a country music bass drum". Nor have I ever heard a bass drum and said, "I don't think I would use this bass drum for country music". And the same holds true with microphones. I think this guy is all lip service. I can make every one of those mics sound identical at the desk.
For making samples this is great! For a realistic application though....probably not so much. Some of these mic's don't play well with bleed or with other mics in the way that they're used. Also, let's be honest. If you're using these mics direct into an interface you're probably sample replacing anyways
I always make samples from the session. But I never replace the tracks, I only augment them. Just gate your close mics and blend with the samples. I usually use the samples to boost high end when the real one has too much bleed.
No man... I'm not into this style of mic placement. Bass drums are really difficult to mic, and conventional techniques have never done it for me. These days I get all the low end out of the overheads and room mics, a close mic is just there as insurance / a trigger gate / source of some midrange thump.
this was fantastic. thanks to Josh and the JST crew for putting this together.
You’re welcome, Robert! Really wanted to go all out with guests for this one
-Miami
This was fantastic! I am super looking forward to the rest of the series!!!
There’s a lot more in store! Thanks for being here
-Miami
Great video! Concise and efficient. Josh is excellent!
Sennheiser e602 in for the click (awesome for this) and beta 52 on the out. That’s how I do it with huge results.
Mans looks like Chester bennington and joseph gordon levitt combined 👀
Damn... you right...
-Miami’s
I have AKG D112s built in to both of my bass drums (via the old Randall May internal miking system) and in both cases I have them in the lower center of the the drum, just barely above the dampening pillow and with the back of the mic almost touching the front (resonant) head. That mic has a reputation of being rather "clicky" and I don't really like that sound for what I do musically. But dropping the mic position down a little from where the beater strikes lessened that effect just enough while still giving me a ton of low end. Ironically the reason that I mounted them this way was because I was randomly reading the book that came with the D112 and there is an illustration that shows that exact placement. I'm glad I read the instructions for once!
Beta 52 and a SM 57. Various placement combinations can get you so many tones. Throw in a good room mic and it’s great.
After years of chasing tone I found placing the mic on the outside of the beater head facing where the kick impacts the bass drum, great tone! but thanks for the vid! they are informative and easy to interpret!
Great video - can't wait for the rest of the series! It would have been nice to see you hit the bass drum harder but, all in all, it demonstrates each microphone nicely.
Thanks Louis! I’ll keep that in mind for next time!
-Miami
This is the content I've been waiting for!
Happy I could make it a reality!
-Miami
I use 5 Neumann M 149 mics on just the beater.
One thing that wasn't mentioned that can play just as big of a role in mic choice/placement is playing with or without burying the beater. Burying the beater cuts the note short and more free of sustain (like palm muting a guitar), while not burying the beater yields a much more solid, "thunderous" low end.
So definitely pay attention to how the player is using his pedals and ask yourself "is this person burying the beater? and which mic should I use to compensate for whether they are or are not".
For instance, if they bury the beater, you may want the beta 52 or D6 because it'll help make up for the lack of low end. But if they don't bury the beater, you'll already have plenty of low end and the beta 91 will retain that while adding that clicky attack. Maybe pair it with something with less click like a D112 or RE20 as an out mic for a kick that sounds thick, full and has plenty of top end click with low end punch that hits your chest.
Seeing him wearing hearing protection. Great vid. Thanks.
Awesome. I liked the beta52 which is good since I have two of them :D
Cool as gents, thank you! What about the Lewitt 640 REX? A pretty new and widely used kick duo mic, used extensively all over the world.
great video Miami! It would be awesome to hear them one after the other at the end of the video ;)
Ahh I’m sorry! I should have thought about that. I’ll keep them in mind for the future
-Miami
@@joeymusic no worries man! I bet that the snare video will be even better! 🔥
omg omg omg omg.....
Linkin Park fan here :)
Awesome!!! This was a dope episode! Felt good vibes from this…😁👍🏽
Glad you enjoyed it Mac! I had a lot of fun doing this one
-Miami
@@joeymusic I see Miami, I click
This is an excellent excellent video! More of this!
Amo este canal .saludos dde argentina!!
Excellent tutorial!!!! Thanks, guys!!!
Cool very informational!!
Glad you enjoyed it. I’ll try to keep the series going with as many guests as I can!
-Miami
@@joeymusic great 👍👌
Great vid would've been cool to also compared with plastic beaters though
I'm a huge fan of the D6 I always use it for kicks!
Great value all round 👌
Would have loved to see how they all worked out with the resonance head in place WITHOUT a port hole! Missed opportunity guys....
Awesome!!! Thank you!!!!!
Of course, anytime!
-Miami
Are you keeping the front skin off during tracking or just positioning the mic through the port hole? Also, what mic stand do you find is the easiest adjust when going through the hole? Would be cool to include this in a future video. Keep up the great work.
2:28
4:00
5:16
6:38
8:13
I think that the picture at 5:44 shows the Eletro Voice RE 27 N/D
thanks to you.
Thanks to you
I use 4 mics on my kick, but my mounted Beta 91 is about 70% of my kick sound. And it's so convenient for live playing because when you have it mounted in the shell, you get repeatable, great results.
That’s a smart approach for sure. The 91 pairs nice with the 52 as well
-Miami
Great comparison, thanks! Do you think leaving the resonant head off makes a great difference? Glad to see Josh using hearing protection during the test, it's hugely important but unfortunately overlooked most of the time.
Although I don't disagree with your suggestions, it might be helpful to demonstrate how you'd mic a bass drum with both heads intact. There's a reason that drums have two heads, and I prefer this Bonham type boom. I used to get get pretty tired of sound engineers muting the crap out of my kit. I want the clang in my snare drum and the boom in my bass drum. Just saying.
Hey abel, what's your mic setup (especially for kick)? Any particular mixing plugin you guys are using?
We are witnessing and hearing one of the best drum sound without even us realizing.
Why did I think that Joey turned black for a sec haha
Stranger things have happened
-Miami
Clutch. Just got my first set of mics for my drums. Oktava MK 12 for overhead and two Shure 57s, one for bass drum and one for snare. How are 57s for the bass drum? One day I’ll prob upgrade to a more kick specific mic but for now hopefully it works
What does 'basketball' mean as an adjective when referring to the AKG mic sound?
great video and content. but i cant help but laugh. these videos give me the vibes of the science vids we’d watch in elementary school on vhs. educational but also very 90s. 😂
B52 was my favourite, wasn't so keen on the RE20. What do you recommend for live mic placement when the kick doesn't have a hole and the drummer wont take the skin off? Mostly work with rock/indie bands
If it's less aggressive rock/indie music where you don't NEED a ton of attack from the kick, then you'll usually be fine just putting a mic on the reso head. Making sure to roll off the low end around 50/60hz, cut out around 300 - 500 depending on need. If you want to add attack, then put a light bump in the 4-5k. Don't go too aggressive with this or you risk getting too much bleed from the rest of the kit.
If you have the mics/inputs available, you can mic the batter side of the kick drum as well. You can sneak a 57 (or something similar) around the kick and point it toward the beater, then blend the 2. Make sure to check for phase alignment with that of course.
If you can't add the mic to the front of the batter side of the kick, but still need more attack, try having the drummer tune the reso head up a little bit, this'll give the you more usable frequencies to work with to find one that cuts through. Again, the typical roll off of sub frequencies below 50 or 60 is helpful, and a cut around 300 - 500 to taste, but with the reso head tuned up that cut of the mids will almost feel like there's a boost to the attack by focusing out unpleasant sounds.
Still need more attack, then just mic the batter side of the kick, and don't bother putting a mic on the reso side. It's uncommon, but dangit, it works. You'll need to get creative with the EQ through, because you'll have A LOT of attack to work with. haha.
@@patrickfouhy9102 legend, thanks for this. I did try this once with great results then every time I've tried since it hasn't been as successful. Could have been phase cancellation or just bad mic placement but I'll definitely give it another go. Cheers
@@Furoraband Okay, so I got to thinking about this even more and I went to my studio and started messing around with exploring new ways to mic a kick. My main kick has a non ported reso head because I have a D6 mounted inside. So I did some experimenting, and I think this'll help you. For this, I didn't use the internal mic, just mics on the outside of the drum.
First thing, forget about putting a mic on the head of the drum, it sounds crazy I know, instead put the mic pointing directly at the hoop. To understand what I'm saying, imagine you're standing in front of the kick drum, you point the mic directly down toward the floor, but position it so it's essentially pointing at the hoop of the drum about an inch away. Rotate the mic around the drum as needed to fit around the other drums, I found that putting it at 12:00, or 9:00 or 3:00 tended to help the most with bleed, but keep the mic facing the hoop and about an inch away. To put it another way, make the mic perpendicular to the drum, and pointed toward the hoop.
Do a mid scoop around 350 - 500 hz, and bingo, you got a full kick sound with plenty of attack, no "basketball" sound of an internal mic to worry about, no papery "woof" of a reso head mic. If you need more low end, put a bump around 60hz or so.
I tried this with a large diaphragm condenser (AKG 214) and Audix D6, and an SM57. All sounded great. The D6 required the least amount of EQ, for obvious reasons. Now here's the fun part, if you want more attack, mic the batter side hoop. If you want more body, mic the reso side hoop. If you have the means, mic them both, it sounds fantastic. (You will need to flip the phase of one of the them if you use 2 mics)
I've got a drummer coming in for a session this weekend, I'm going to give it a try and see how it works in a "real" setting.
I actually think uncut reso heads have more punch. Hopefully the drum is dampened properly for the genre. I feel like the uncut reso is moving just like the diaphragm of a dynamic mic and translates a nice sound pressure wave directly into it.
@@TimMilliken absolutely. I mounted a D6 in my kick so I can keep a non ported reso head. Much better sounding IMO.
tres cool celle la
I'm an Audix man, myself.
The d6 does wonders for simplicity
-Miami
Man it looks like John Cena and Chester had a son.
How about not burying the beater? Why tune?
🐐🐐
D6 is great
Everytime!
-Miami
It does so well in these comparisons. It's why I picked it as my first kick-drum mic back in the day
AE2500
So basically this guy is Andy Wallace's technician?
Identified a small booboo at 5:44. That is the RE27 in the picture.
D6 + Beta91… Instant Metal kick…
I don't understand how he can say he uses an RE20 for country bass drum. In my 40 years of life I've never thought "wow, that sounds like a country music bass drum". Nor have I ever heard a bass drum and said, "I don't think I would use this bass drum for country music". And the same holds true with microphones. I think this guy is all lip service. I can make every one of those mics sound identical at the desk.
You showed a Re27 when you said re20 lol
How to mic a kick: Use a trigger and a sample.
For making samples this is great! For a realistic application though....probably not so much. Some of these mic's don't play well with bleed or with other mics in the way that they're used. Also, let's be honest. If you're using these mics direct into an interface you're probably sample replacing anyways
I always make samples from the session. But I never replace the tracks, I only augment them.
Just gate your close mics and blend with the samples.
I usually use the samples to boost high end when the real one has too much bleed.
I'm not sure what it is but all those mics sounded the same. At least on my end they did.
Ead10
No man... I'm not into this style of mic placement. Bass drums are really difficult to mic, and conventional techniques have never done it for me. These days I get all the low end out of the overheads and room mics, a close mic is just there as insurance / a trigger gate / source of some midrange thump.
Hyping af
the d112 is such an awful mic
Kris Crummett and Josh Newell use it. Enough of a reason for me to trust it has a purpose
-Miami
Its great on the floor tom.