Best teacher ever. I wish I knew half what this man forgot. Great presentation. Every one of this gentlemen's videos are in-depth, and interesting through out the duration. He takes the mumbo jumbo out of reloading. Highly recommended.
I'm glad you're sharing your knowledge. I wish my dad made videos on all his welding and motorcycle mechanics knowledge and wisdom before he passed. This is a real blessing to have men like you offering us your wisdom. Bless you sir! Subscribed
These videos are pragmatism at it's best . My time is very valuable. I want the most of my hours and minutes spent to deliver reliability and performance. From a cost aspect as well. I am so glad that you are generous with you time in these videos, instructing us and sincerely wanting the viewer to know the safe use of reloading and maximizing efficiency. You unquestionably have helped me and everything has just worked. Everything you've ever said. Thank you so much! Update 1 year later: in your guidance, I have learned to summarize everything in this statement: brass work is all about correcting an issue. So only do what needs to be done and nothing more. Why full length size your brass back to SAAMI dimensions and lose the benefits of form-fitted brass? That's not correcting a problem, that's adding another one. And there are other things that don't need to be done that people do. Why walk 2 mi when only 1 mi is required of me? Thank you for your wisdom and experience. I am shooting the most accurate groups of my lifetime.
Recently I came very close to purchasing a wet tumbler and a food dehydrator to clean and dry my brass. Seems like it's all the rage right now to make all your brass look brand new before loading and I almost bought into it. It's nice to hear from somebody with years of reloading under their belt that it just isn't needed. I do use a dry tumbler similar to yours, since the majority of my brass comes from me picking it up off the ground at an outdoor range I shoot at. Thank you for the dose of reality and saving me from buying into internet hype.
I watched an interview with Chief Ballistician of Berger Bullets, Bryan Litz. The big takeway from the the interview was the importance of testing out "common beliefs" held by reloaders. An example he used was the practice of chamfering flash holes. It's a belief that chamfering flash holes would lead to more consistent flash thus leading to consistent powder burn. They compared the SD in velocity between unaltered brass and chamfered brass. The test showed that chamfering had little affect on SD. Your discussion about testing brass cleanliness and accuracy reminded me of this interview. I'm glad I started watching your videos before seriously getting into reloading. It sure as there's a heaven and hell saved me time and money.
I really, really like your simplicity!!! So many channels want you to buy XYZ for better, faster, etc…. I recently started reloading and was going to get a tumbler. My 93 year old shooting pal and neighbor has been reloading forever and he has never owned a tumbler! I follow your advice and wipe down the cases. No problem so far! Thanks!
Again, thank you for your true, honest , and direct discussion on brass prep. You have shown that on this discussion there is no need for hyped tech info on this very important aspect od reloading.
I agree with you on the digital vs balance beam scales. I have an old but nice RCBS 10-10 scale, it replaced an inexpensive beam scale that got mashed in moving. The 10-10 settles very quickly, I was amazed how fast it was when I first used it. I'm just getting back into reloading after eight years, so, I've been watching a lot of videos. I never ever cleaned a case in my life until last night. Then I thought let's see what GunBlue thinks about cleaning cases, thank you, you just saved me a few years of fussing over something just for looks. I will get a neck brush, and I'll probably continue to clean primer pockets, just because. I'm a new subscriber, you're da man.
Excellent series. I’ve watched several times, before beginning. I also liked your advice about taking stock of ones interests. I started slowly with a good used RCBS single stage press and most importantly... reloading manuals, and tools. Thanks again
Great reloading videos. I have been reloading over 45 years and I am still learning. Great advice about following the manuals. Personally I always suggest that newbies buy a LEE or Lyman manual before any equipment or components.
May just say thank you for sharing your vast knowledge on this channel . Rcbs makes a trimmer head which also chamfers and deburs , all in one step. I have used it for all my 308 win.
Great information, I've been loading for years. I bought a tumbler , used it twice, and have never used it since. Like you said, it's not necessary. It was annoying, cleaning media particles from primer pocket holes.
While I have my preferences in tumblers, I have done small batches of brass using a few folded over paper towels, doused them with lighter fluid, placed my brass in a single layer, and rolled them on the towels with my flat palms. The fouling sticks to the towels (and strangley not my hands) and the brass comes out shiny in seconds. The extractor groove may need some attention, but for the most part this works great.
I know this is an old video, but I have to add one thing; get and use a primer flash hole deburring tool (Lyman $20) I've been reloading for 15+ years now, and have definitely seen using this make a difference in consistency/ accuracy. You only need to do each case once in it's life. New brass I trim to length then deburr, once fired, same thing, YOU MUST TRIM ALL CASES FIRST TO GET BEST RESULTS! I know you mention this in other videos (and in the comments on this one) but figured this would be good info for any "new" viewers :)
Dear Sir another awesome video and a great learning tool - I know that I will begin to enjoy my reloading again and not see it as hard work with lots of pain - all the countless hours I spent cleaning out primer pockets! A heartfelt thanks for these learning tools! I had a good laugh at my own stupidity when realizing that instead of shooting and making ammunition I was becoming a pedantic idiot! Blessings - Matthys
excellent video def gets you thinking. i really dont mind tumbling i just use a rock tumbler from harbor freight. but this makes me think is it truly needed. and i do like the clean brass. lol
Gunblue490 I have 3 ruger 44s and 2 556s and I'm building a 308 and it time to learn the craft of reloading what is step 1 a full kit with out a brass cleaner is close to 400 from what I've been seeing there has to be a cheaper way to get started. I wish we lived closer you are the best instructor on the net
I believe you when you say that the shiny clean brass has nothing to with accuracy. However I think there is something to be said for not exposing your dies and cutting tools to the bit of carbon that is on the dirty brass. Now yes it would take a long time for this carbon to play a role but if you are shooting for accuracy one should get rid of it first. I alway have used a universal depriving die and wet tumbled my brass. I towel dry it right away when it comes out of the tumbler then dry it on a cookie sheet in the 100*f oven for a few minutes. Works every time. Thanks for all your time and great reloading videos.
Bryan Betournay Please do not take my comments out of context. I always tumble my cases, and certainly recommend that folks take great pride in their hard work. My remark is intended to let folks understand that the beginner can make very accurate and perfectly functional ammunition without obsessing over cleaning harmless tarnish from their brass, or purchasing a tumbling machine. I did not suggest that anyone insert filthy brass with grit on it into their dies. I've known competitive benchrest shooters who routinely reloaded their brass that was merely wiped carefully before loading, and such handling is not at all injurious to dies.
This is so refreshing to hear. I was worried sick about how I was gonna "clean" my brass, without a tumbler. Turns out, I've got 2 packs of 0000 wool, that will work just fine. And, I won't have to worry about putting them in the oven, or taking a blow dryer to them. Would you still recommend wiping them down with a damp rag, after the wool rubbing??? I don't wanna scratch my dies.
Hi, my 2cents. I reloaded for a while without lubricating the inside of my case neck when using an expander-ball and my ES was always horrible. I suppose if you reload for an AR its fine you don't need extreme accuracy. I decided to lubricate the inside of my case necks and polish my expander_ball and that was really a game changer in accuracy when using an expander-ball, the best is using a bushing die without an expander ball. What happened was that my expander-ball became so rough(after 50 cases) that it started to scratch the inside of my case necks which causes uneven bullet seating pressure (hope that makes sense). I went from an ES of 35 to less than 10 just by lubricating the inside of my case necks before running through the polished expander-ball. Lubricating the inside also meant more work as you need to remove the lubrication before putting powder and projectile.
You'll find that Lee full length dies with their long, polished, gently tapered expander has none of those issues, and it's incredibly smooth without inside lubrication. Further, it pulls out with far less effort, and without distorting the case. My target and varmint loads are only neck sized with the Lee collet die which has no expander. You're probably aware that extruded single base powders are generally cleaner burning, and less sensitive than spherical powders to variations of any kind, including load variations. Thanks, but I have no ES issues whatsoever with any of my loads, and covered these issues in my series.
you sir are the best wish i had found yo 40 years ago it would saved me a lot trouble i ve learn a little bit you should have been a lot of help harvey i am 67 years old thank you sir
thanks for another great video lesson. I want to mention that many of the digital scales do come with AC adaptors so batteries become a non sequitur. I'm sure you know this. the same holds true to trimming tools. God bless you too.
tjmooremusic I have used digital scales, and they are fine, but there are advantages to a balance beam, and they are very fast for an experienced hand.
Steel wool and the zip trim works great for shiny cases. Or scotchbrite for more of a brushed look. I couldn't be bothered with a tumbler. My black powder .44-40s turn dark and stay that way...always go bang!
quality cases: Lapua, Nozler/Norma, Lake City. For new cases debur flash hole, fired cases primer pocket uniforming, anneal using Tempilaq for correct neck/shoulder temperature, neck turning after trimming, sort cases by weight, full length resize with shoulder bump back 0.002", bench rest primers for minimum variation in velocity.
I have been watching your videos and have bought a Mec press and Lee dies for a 300 win mag. I have never reloaded before and want to be as safe as possible. My rifle is a Ruger tang safety that I bought new in 1983 it has given me great service. I am disabled and limited on my physical ability and reloading has always been a goal of mine. I just want to make sure I fully understand reloading belted cases. I know they can develop a second belt after reloading a few times. If you can be of any help to me I would appreciate it very much. I have not seen anything about belted cases from you as far as reloading. I want to make a safe round and not have any accidents from lack of knowledge, which you are the best information I have found. Thank you for any help. God bless
I like my Forster original case trimmer for small lots of commercial brass. In that role, it's hard to beat but it's not ideal for trimming large quantities of once fired lake city 7.62 brass. It will do the job but it's a real pain in the ass. I prefer the Giraud tri-way cutter for that job. It may take you 30-60 seconds to trim each piece of brass with the Forster whereas the Tri-Way cutter will trim each piece in 3-5 seconds if you're set up right. If you don't have the the Forster three way cutter head, you'll have to chamfer and deburr each piece as well which is hell on my hands after about 30 minutes. With the Giraud tri-way cutter, your cases are chamferred and deburred after the 5-6 second trim operation which is a major time saver and hand saver plus your chamfer is consistent. With the Giraud tri-way cutter, you index the cartridge off the case shoulder after full length resizing so to have consistent case trims, you need to have consistent resizing first. It's inevitable that you'll end up with variation in the neighborhood of +- .001" with the Giraud. Theoretically, you shouldn't have that problem with the Forster original case trimmer but, in practice, I find that the Forster case trimmer can have considerably more variation than +- .001" when you're trimming large volumes of once fired Lake City 7.62 brass. If you're trimming small volumes of commercial brass, the Forster will keep everything basically right on the money. The Lee tool is OK but you still have to deburr and chamfer the cases and the Giraud is faster and easier. The Lee tool is great when you're starting out though because it's cheap and it works. I don't think most benchrest shooters use it though from what I have seen. If I were benchrest shooting, I would definitely use the Forster case trimmer/pilot system. If I was making a ton of ammo to shoot up in my semi-auto battle rifles, I would go with the Giraud triway cutter. If money were no object, I would get the Giraud power trimmer for sure. I recently acquired several thousand once fired Lake City 5.56 cases and I think I'm just going to break down and buy another tri-way trimmer for 5.56 and get it all trimmed up in an afternoon. It's hard to beat that reloading tool.
Iv been reloading 45-70-500s with black powder and if always chunked the brass into a jug full of soapy water, the brass is a pretty color of black, brown, red lol, but what you say Sir sure makes sense about not getting moister in the case, I will give the wipe off method a try , thank you.
Oh, black powder is about as messy as one can get, being largely charcoal. Washing may be the only practical means, but just be sure to keep your powded dry. LOL Have fun!
@@GunBlue490 I am not sure I have caught your name in any of the videos, but I have to say I really enjoy them, so much wisdom and well versed in what your saying and teaching. Plus your voice really sounds a lot like my grandpa's voice it's really soothing. That being said here is something that may make you chuckle. So I am shooting an orginal Springfield Trapdoor full size battle rifle.... made in 1886. I am 5'4 so the gun is nearly as long as I am tall. 😂 My cousin told me I sure went in a different direction, I was using a Mossburge .243 win for most of my hunting, but borrowed my uncle's. 444 Marlin handy rifle and I was hooked, later got myself a 45-70govt Handy rifle, I made friends with a gun shop owner in Oregon he had this Springfield for a nice price, I was like can I make payments? He was like sure .. took 5 months, but I got it and I love it, it's way more accurate than I thought it would be. 😄 anywho I am rambling, God bless.
I got a tumbler given to me...I'll use it for now. Considering the redundancy of tumbling as you say, it blows my mind some people use ultrasonic cleaners! Any comments and experiences on that are appreciated.
Id really like to talk to u my father was a very well known shooter he has passed when i was 16 just starting to reload with his guidance i have always been drawn to long range and with his custom built 22-250 i still due shoot offs at the local gun clubs and these fellas know the gun from my father and know it well along with me and my father he taught me how to shoot first and formost when i got my form down then he said we will move on to the mill and lathe then to reloading. I got a book and when i say a book i should say books and materials to build bullets i have gotten pretty good at custom bullet making over the years i always used his powder from 1995 was the last jug i had some that had to be from 80s they didnt loose no umph at all over the years.. my question is todays powders i have not jad nore payed attention to the change or numbers off available powders. i want to load my son some 223 loads for his journey like mine he has built his own ar15 in 556 nato with a 1/9 twist
In reading Richard Lees book, he mentions being careful with tumber media......apparently lead can concentrate in the media dust. I went for many years also not having a tumbler...seems to be a toy we gravitate to. The ones who sell range brass apparently use stainless steel media for tumbling and it produces a shiny case from the most tarnished....I don't know if that is good or bad.
George1mac I used stainless steel tumbling media when I was an electroplater in my younger days, especially to strip rejected plating. In the industry, they are called "points", as they are shaped like sharp footballs, about 1/4 inch long. They are extremely aggressive, and actually erode brass quite badly if not watched like a hawk. I have seen reclaimed brass that you speak of, and it usually shows eroded headstamps, pockmarked necks where the brass is soft, and dulled edges. It's no particular bargain. I would never recommend tumbling with points! It is so aggressive that it requires special stainless steel barrels. It would shred a plastic one in short order.
George1mac Regards to the lead dust, it is a serious concern, especially near children. I use 4 inch cut squares of used dryer softening sheets during the process that attracts the dust. Remove with gloves or tongs and toss.
I will agree with you on brass accuracy and shininess..... However... I like Shiney... Lol. I am ocd. Lol.. I honestly don't want others knowing I reload at the range.... Saves me the constant "sorry, I only reload for myself." Someone asks what my ammo. Is... I look at the headstamp "oh... These are some federal" .. Or whatever I read. You make great videos!
With confidence from watching your videos I am getting into this. I just deprimed and cleaned all my .308 Win brass and am taking a look at the cases and their length. I am noticing some cases (PPU brass) are quite a bit shorter than 2.005". However, I am noticing that these cases have a 'lip' on the outside of the neck rim. Do you chamfer and debur cases that haven't been trimmed?
thanks for another great video. please could you expand video to cover neck turning, what is acceptable difference in brass thickness around neck and measuring consentricity of case after resizing? again what is acceptable. also what is your take on full sizing versus neck sizing. thank you!
Enjoyed watching I was de-capping some brass letting the video run. Enjoyed the video, I agree with everything you shared in the video. I started shooting long range metallic silhouette with a lot of serious extreme long range guys and they got me to being anal about the aesthetics as you said but I have found that other than pretty brass no performance difference in ammo. The video was just the right length I enjoy your videos
I like shiny brass because it's cool to have a good-looking end product, but also I like to run clean brass through my dies so I don't have to clean them too often. Anyhow is there no merit to operations like neck turning and sorting brass by weight or verifying neck concentricity or whatever people do?
I like my loaded ammo to look better than new.....and it is. I don't think of it as a "reload" because it's not. A lot of time, research, pick of a certain brand and weight of bullet and powder has gone into the load for rifle, shotgun or pistol and I like the appearance to reflect this.
Another great video. I am guilty of liking shiney brass and tumble both wet and dry. I agree it doesn't make a hill of beans difference in performance. In the past I've obsessed with trim length but have recently concluded I trim to much. My 223 and 308 only requires a quick trim after around 3 cycles. I check them every time with a case length gauge.
Kip Wright There is no harm in trimming every time, if you are inclined, as long as you stay within the 10 thousandths min-max dimensions. The important thing is to never shoot brass that is beyond maximum.
Another great video thanks! I suppose the primer flash hole reamer is another OCD/accuracy pastime?I never used any cleaning for years initially. Now I collect range brass (pistol) and it usually needs cleaning, but I like the speed of the ultrasonic ones. They do need overnight drying time though so the savings are moot.
toy collector Actually, I consider primer flash hole reaming to be essential for most new brass, because the holes are punched and leave a tag or other interior burrs that will prevent even flash distribution, which will absolutely affect uniform ignition. High grade brass will sometimes use a superior manufacturing process that will prevent or eliminate burrs. I will discuss this in the preparation of new brass. It is done only once, and must be done with a tool that will limit cutting, or a case can be weakened in this critical area.
Is it useful to trim pistol brass to uniformity to get a consistent crimp? Does variation in crimping impact accuracy noticeably? The variation in crimping occurring because of inconsistent brass length due to different manufacturers of the brass.
COMB0RICO Most pistol brass is very uniform in length. I have never trimmed pistol brass in my life, because it helps nothing. Cases that headspace on the mouth. such as 380, 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, and 45 ACP must never, ever, be trimmed. Rimmed cases theoretically could be, but there is nothing to be gained, and it would ruin the nice factory drawn taper at the mouth. Pistol cartridges use relatively fast burning powders that are unaffected by the slight crimps used, except for only certain powders that demand a heavy crimp. Most rimmed cartridges should not have a heavy crimp, as it shortens brass life, and pistol cases cannot be safely annealed due to their shortness. The crimp is there mostly to facilitate smooth loading in revolvers. Heavy recoiling calibers should be crimped only enough to hold the bullets tight during recoil, and no more. A heavy crimp is required for magnums when using slow burning powders such as Win 296 and H-110 in combination with magnum or double duty primers as Winchester and Remington use, which helps insure ignition.
When preparing ammunition for competition do you prefer a single stage press as opposed to a progressive press. I have a Dillon 550 I use for 45acp and 9mm. I was looking at a Lee Breech Lock Challenger and the are only $79. Please let me know what you think. Thanks Al
Competition covers a broad spectrum of meanings. Precision shooting with a rifle can also have different meanings, whether you're a competitor in a benchrest match for thousandths of an inch, or competing on the line at a CMP or military match where winners win by scoring rings measuring feet. Progressive presses are not less precise; they don't however permit each stage to be handled individually to "feel" the procedure being performed. When I'm shooting competitive CMP rifle, I am using ammo made by my Load Master fully progressive press. Likewise for bowling pin shoots with my 45, or any other purpose for which I'm loading large quantities. My AR-15 National Match Service Rifle shoots the loads I make with it into MOA or less, which is more accuracy than necessary for that game. The Breech Lock Challenger is a sturdy press and will make very high grade ammo. I'd use the Lee dies, too, which I consider outstanding on any brand press.
Always felt I needed to clean out a primer pocket, now I don't, saving me time and fuss. What's your thoughts on using Hornady HK66 Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge Kit with Body to adjust full length sizing. I've never used this and never had any problems with my brass.
It's a silly tool. Your gun does that. There are only two ways to size brass. The most common fully sizes them and provides safe factory headspace for assured cycling. The other, which should be used only for target shooting and nonessential varmint shooting, neck sizes only, leaving the body as fired with zero headspace in the gun in which it was fired. That method requires a neck sizing die, and the only company that makes one that works correctly is Lee, which compresses the neck around a mandrel without distorting the body. Full length sizing dies should not be used for any degree of partial sizing because they will merely distort the brass and create a secondary shoulder at the neck, but you certainly don't require a tool to achieve that. The standard process has always been nothing more than backing off the die a couple of turns, then incrementally lowering it by 8ths until the case fits and the bolt closes with the desired effort. They do not set the shoulder back unless they are adjusted to full size. Customizing a full length die adjustment is an entirely bogus premise, because full length dies are not made that way. Hornady knows better.
@@GunBlue490 You are very misinformed. The Hornady headspace comparison tool allows you to _control_ the amount of shoulder setback when you’re full length resizing the case. Setting back the shoulder to about .002” from whatever it comes out of your chamber as is a simple way to get more brass life before the case head splits and to get a better chamber fit for increased accuracy. If you think resizing the way is a “gimmick” then maybe you need to spend less time flapping your gums and more time getting reloading and shooting experience. You seem to be a real “expert” at saying stupid things and parroting misinformation. Maybe you should stay in your lane?
Excellent videos, your's are my first choice for reloading info. Question, I watched your video on COAL by using scotch tape. I am a newbie reloader, ...why can't I take a fire formed cartridge, knock the primer out, tighten the neck a bit and place whatever bullet I am going to use in the mouth (barely snug), chamber the round, close the bolt,and then extract. Won't the lands push the bullet back to OAL, leave "land marks" on the bullet, and I can just back off 0.020 from that COAL to improve accuracy?
Christopher M That's one of several methods I have used. Don't expect to read land marks, as they are usually difficult to discern from other chambering scrapes. With many rifles, it is possible to just seat a bullet partially into a fully sized or neck sized empty case and just chamber it. Unless the rifling is very grabby, the bullet will not stick on retrieval, and you can make your measurements accordingly. If you think it's sticking and giving a false reading, apply magic marker to the bullet first, which will leave a telltale where the case reached its full engagement. There are many ways to accomplish this; I provided this one because it's good universally with guns that don't have strong chambering leverage, such as autos, pumps, and levers.
I do the deprime and soak method to clean them. Then I warm them on the plate warming setting in the oven to dry them in the winter. I inspect the case & primer pockets after they are clean and dry. Handling clean brass and removing any primer lead residue from my reloading area is worth the time and peace of mind. What about uniform primer pocket depth ? Is this a concern ? How important is that primers seating depth ? Maybe this will be in a future set of videos.
LIVIN CINCY It is not the seating depth, but only that each primer be seated firmly, so that the anvil is set. There is no science to this procedure. The best primer seating tools have good feedback to the operator, so it can be felt. Never over exert or seat lightly.
Thank you. I was looking at SAAMI data on the 9mm and you can have components, primers & cases, that all meet specifications that will seat at different depths. They have ranges that the manufacturers must meet. This perplexed me as it did not correlate. I was thinking that I would have to measure my primers and case then sort them to get everything to work out... There are so many voices saying how important below flush to some number is. You can buy so many products manufactured to help get your primer pockets & seating depth uniform these days that I was confused. It seems that precision loading is confused with OCD. Thanks again for saving me money !
LIVIN CINCY The variations in primers are extremely slight, and are made within industry tolerances. When using automated priming systems, seating force should be checked whenever primer brands are changed, to be sure they are fully set, or conversely, not being flattened.
So performance of the round is not influenced by how clean the brass might be. Good. I could never argue with that especially with my shooting skill level :) ). But, would debris (carbon fouling etc.) cause any problems with the loading process or loading equipment. Do you use your tumbler?
Patent Arms As I said, a simple cleaning wipedown is the only necessary degree of cleanliness. Interior loose carbon is virtually nonexistent, as it is expelled during firing. The only part of a two piece rifle die that contacts the inside is the hardened decapping pin and hardened expander ball that are totally unaffected by whatever debris they encounter. Pistol dies have an expander that is equally hard. They are made for that, and cannot be harmed, even under the most extreme circumstances. Of course, I am speaking of fired cases; not sandy ones picked up under foot, which require sensible cleaning. I do use my tumbler, simply for esthetic purposes, but very often leave the procedure out. Pickup brass should be cleaned to eliminate sand and dirt, which is easily done with a tumbler, but I did it for years with nothing more than a nylon brush and a rag. I love clean and bright brass, but tarnished work just as well, and are no issue for dies.
Thanks again for your helpful videos. If I missed this in one of your videos, I apologize in advance. I am trying to get my ruger 308 Hawkeye hunting rifle to shoot a tight group. The best that I can get is about 1.25 MOA. I have gotten my 7mm mag and 300 win mag both to shoot about 3/4 MOA. (Both are also Ruger Hawkeye rifles except that they have 24 inch barrels, the 308 has a 22 inch barrel.) I use Hornady SST bullets for all these rifles. Would you expect bullet seating depth changes to help this accuracy? I could not remember if you had ever said much about this in your videos. Thanks again and please keep your videos coming.
I always wet tumble to remove lube after depriming, FL resizing (when not using fire formed) and trimming if needed. I then place in oven on cookie sheet at 170 degrees for 20 min to dry out prior to setting primer, powder and bullets. My question: Is this temp ok for short time? I don't want to damage the brass in any way or create an unsafe situation. 20 mins seems to always get them bone dry.
Christopher Paul Do you mean uniforming of the pockets or flash holes? The flash hole is the only portion that is involved with uniform ignition. As long as they have no internal burs or irregular diameters, the flash will be as consistent as the primers. The pocket is only a receptacle for the primer, and has nothing to do whatsoever with ignition, whether they are new and very tight, or loosened from several firings. Some brands are a bit more snug than others, but it makes no difference, except to the life of the case, where tight pockets can withstand more loadings before loosening. A Go-No go plug gauge can be used I like to make sure they are safely snug to specifications. folks are thinking critically, and not responding to fads and trends.
I insert the flash hole tool into the case until it comes through the flash hole and the stop is against the case mouth. If this is the first time the case is reloaded, there will be a burr on the inside of the case. A twist of the uniforming tool removes the burr. There is another tool that I use to remove carbon from the primer pocket. Cleaning the pocket is supposed to ensure the primers are seated to the same depth so as not to cause a variance in lock time.
Christopher Paul It was your terminology. You are uniforming the flash holes, which I recommend, but not primer pockets. I discuss this matter fully in my primer video, which I encourage you to watch. Lock time has absolutely nothing to do with pocket cleaning. I did extensive testing 30 years ago with primer pockets, and no amount of scrubbing makes a bit of difference. The reason is quite simple: Boxer primers are self contained ignition systems. When you seat the primer cup until it bottoms on the pocket floor, it has pre-loaded the anvil and depressed it uniformly, regardless of the pocket depth. The ignition gap is set between the anvil and cup, period, and has nothing to do with the primer cup to pocket relationship. You could not seat the anvil unless the cup bottoms, and it makes no difference if it bottoms on ash or brass, because it will cut through and bottom very nicely. When the anvil is seated, it's seated. This is another one of the little ways that pockets are picked for our hard earned cash. It's a little thing, yes, but it's still a sham that has been going around for years, and is an entire waste of time and effort that could be used for other more meaningful achievements.
GunBlue490 I like your videos! I like the way you explain things as simple as they are. I like your calm and unexcited talking. Great work! Best wishes and God bless from Austria/Europe! How important is it, to get your brass all to the same length, to gain maximus accuarcy? For example. I shoot a lot of .222 remington with RWS brass. My cases are between 1.693''-1.697''. Is this too much deviation?
Hello Sir, I hope you are well and winter is being kind to you and your family. As always, excellent information and thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences. Hello to Benny. God bless you Sir Sincerely, Rick Mansberger
GunBlue, I have an advanced reloading case preparation question. Background: I acquired a .30 Newton a while back. As you know, cases for the .30 Newton are difficult to come by. I have some from Jamison's Cartridges. Recently a friend gave me some Speer cases (which were probably made in the 50s). But these .30 Newton cases were necked to .270. In order to get them back to the correct neck size, should I load the case with a moderate to stiff load, cap it with wax and fire in the rifle or just run the case in the .30 Newton FL sizing die? I suspect annealing would be required after either procedure. Thank you.
I have often necked up by one caliber increment, and down by two. Your situation calls for an up increase of two, which may be strenuous, or may even be too much for a standard sizing ball to fit without crushing. My preference is Lee dies, which use a long tapered neck expander that I believe would easily handle the task. A second consideration would be to use a 7mm ball first in your 30 die to progressively expand them. Yes, I would anneal them first, but be careful, or you will crush your necks. I'm not a fan of fire forming undersized case necks, as there is too much rearward leakage.
Gunblue490, Thank you for the video, and I am just getting started into reloading. If I disregard case tumbling to clean brass, will my resizing dies get overly dirty or grimy over time? Will I need to clean them or does it not even matter?
I noticed that your Forster turning tool has the screw type case holder. I found that the one I had did not always hold the cases at the same depth depending on how hard I turned the handle. How do you assure the case length when you use that tool? Mine would vary a great deal depending on several factors.
I'm new to reloading and use a tumbler to clean the inside of the brass. It's nice to know that I don't need to clean the primer pocket any more but do you need to clean the carbon inside of the casing?
Cap, I'm not sure if I saw this in this particular video or another but the question remains. You said you only trim your case once??? I probably, almost certainly mistook what you said or meant because I like you have a Forester case trimmer and I trim my cases usually every 2nd or 3rd shooting and resizing. I guess what I'm asking is what you meant by "You only do this once?" What, during the process of cases for loading do you only do once?
Patrick Slevin I trim as required, whenever cases exceed specified length, which varies depending on caliber, pressure, resizing method, or whatever. A top end 22-250 case being full length resizing may get one or two firings, while a top end 222 Remington case resized with a Lee collet die may go a dozen or more. Let the length decide.
My two tumblers haven't been used for years. I blow out the inside of my cases with almost 60,000 psi, every time I pull the trigger. That seems to be enough.
I've recently learned about an annealer called the "AMP" Annealing Made Perfect. It is done by induction. Have you heard of this type of annealing? It seems to have antiquated all other types of annealing with a flame. I'd love to get your feedback.
Jeffrey M. Green Yes, I'm aware of the machine, made in New Zealand. The cost runs $1,100 without each individual pilot that is required for each case that is of different neck diameter. Due to thermal protection, the unit will shut down after as few as 40 rounds while it must cool down and reset. Pretty pricey for my taste, for a machine that does the same thing as a precisely controled flame that can run uninterrupted. Induction is old as the hills, and should not be thought of as a new invention. Back in the day when house pipes were threaded instead of sweated solder (from the turn of the century until the 80s or so), welders in my part of the country went around to houses with frozen pipes and hooked up their big rectifiers to boiler and water systems, and passed current through them, which melted ice through induction. Induction stovetops have been around for 30 years. Edison used conduction to light the filament in his bulb, and the heated glass is inducted. Every ammo company in the world uses flame for the annealing process, and that's how military brass is annealed. There's nothing inferior about it, nor is there anything superior about AMP, except its silly price tag for what amounts to a tiny inefficient rectifier with heat control, which is a miniature welder in disguise. Do you know how big a professional welder you can buy for eleven hundred dollars?
Thank you for your quick reply and thank you because you just saved me $1100+! When you put up your video on "flame" annealing, I'll be the guy in the front row seat taking notes! When you do your video can you discuss the pros and cons of the different designs of the flame style annealers? I'm a bit overwhelmed with which one to invest into. The "Annealez" seems affordable. The whole idea behind the torch annealing seems very subjective and that's why I wrote in to you. Again thank you for taking the time to respond.
I've done lots of annealing over the years, and it can range from very frustrating to simple, using the old seat of pants methods. Standing cases in water up to about 2/3rds and heating them with a torch was the old stand by. The water was there simply as a heat sink to prevent over heating. Many of the hand made automated units work beautifully, which is essentially the Annealeeze type, which is a very good, though noisy one. Though admittedly expensive, I personally prefer the Bench-Source machine, because of several features; it allows the use of two flames that more uniformly distribute heat during the very short heating interval, it has more precise timing, which is very helpful in maintaining critical temperatures, and its base is heavy aluminum, which conducts excess heat away. Probably the biggest reason that I like it is its quietness. It is semi automated, requiring human interaction to feed cases, so it is not quite as convenient as bulk processing machines. I don't think it would take much to adapt a Lee Loadmaster case feeder to it. Yes, I will hopefully do a video on this process, including the old water pan method, when time permits.
When we reload sooner, not annealing, sooner or later we have to replace the piece of brass we use. I calculate the cost of my brass (as a depreciating asset) into the cost of my reloads (bullet cost, primer cost, powder cost) and my calculation is 8 cents. I buy a box of factory ammunition to get my brass for reloading. I subtract the cost of that bullet, powder and primer from the price per round to derive my cost of the brass. I then divide that cost by the number of expected firings I will get before I discard that brass. Dividing that cost into the cost of the AMP machine; per my calculations, I would have to reload 14,375 rounds to break-even on the cost of the AMP machine. At the rate of rounds I fire per year, it would take me years to break even and in the meantime, I would have gone through several barrel replacements. There is no way I can make cents (sense) out of paying that much money for the machine. Finally, sooner or later I am going to have to replace my brass even when annealing. Each to their own, it does not pencil out well for me.
How do you treat unfired brass, if you do at all? I bought some Hornady brass for my 270 and before I load it, I was wondering if theres any preparation for new brass that you recommend?
Andrei Fedorov That depends on the brand. Expensive brands such as Nosler and Lapua brass comes carefully prepped by the factory and are carefully packaged, while less expensive brass are bagged loosely and have not been prepped for loading. Inspect the condition and factory preparation, and proceed accordingly. Bagged brass may easily be dented or distorted due to rough handling, and should be run through a sizing die to iron them out. If the case mouths are not factory chamfered, which is typical with less expensive brass, they must be chamfered and deburred before a bullet is seated. I always use a properly adjusted inside primer hole prep tool to clean off any burs inside the case, which is entirely optional, performed only once. High grade brass is more than just pretty; it generally has better weight uniformity, meaning internal volume uniformity, cleaner flash holes, and are ready to load.
How critical is it to de-burr the flash hole of handgun cartridges? If so, what de-burring tool do you recommend? It seems all the high end de-burring tools such as the 21st Century brand are for rifle cartridges only. The low end low priced models such as the Lyman have a beveled cutting surface and I feel that leaves too much room for error? Are these tools only for rifle cartridges and should never be considered to be used on handgun cartridges?
Harry Callahan I would not bother with handgun cartridges. The difference with rifle cartridges can only be measured in sub parts of MOA, at best, and would never be of consequence in handguns, except with such rounds as the 221 Fireball, which is actually a rifle cartridge. The Lyman is inexpensive, easy to set up, and foolproof, if used as I described, and will not bevel the hole if set to simply remove the burr, also as I described. It's not a matter to make a big deal with, and certainly not one to spend undue money or attention to. All it does is uniform the cases, which eliminates flyers with cases that sometimes have large burrs.
Harry Callahan Burrs are removed as I described, not from firing. I spent considerable time detailing this information on the video. I left nothing out, and made it clear that this isn't done for MOA factory ammo and rifles. I recommend what I recommend, and if you follow my instructions, you will have extremely accurate ammo. Harry, I regret that I have too many other folks to answer, so I cannot respond to any more of yours, unless you have something of serious interest beyond curiosity.
I have watched this video 3 times and you never once mentioned de-burring of flash holes. I have watched most of your videos and you stress highly the safety and performance aspects of re-loading. I am just being thorough which I have assumed you would appreciate? I have a serious interest and therefore my questions. Thank you sir.
Harry Callahan I covered de-burring of primer flash holes extensively and in great detail in the primer video, which is consistent with the topic of primers, ignition, and flash holes.
Brent Gates Consistent accuracy is a consistency issue. Carbon inside case necks have nothing to do with consistency. Bullets do not slide from case necks; the case neck releases them before the bullet moves, and the release is identical whether black or shiny. The accuracy of my old cases with blackened case neck is absolutely the same as brand new cases, and they shoot into precisely the same group, and chronographed rounds of both kinds measure the same velocity. No, it makes no difference whatsoever. I do suggest a single pass of a soft nylon case neck brush with a very small trace of case lube to ease expander ball friction, which reduces case stretch and longer case life, but whether dirty inside or not, well made loads with properly developed components produce fine results. Aggressive cleaning methods I have seen detailed amount to only satisfaction for busy work, but avail nothing except abraded brass and reduced case life. Though unsightly, cases may be reloaded multiple times without cleaning, and without one iota of change in accuracy.
I wont assemble a round with a dirty case. Stainless pins and detergent. Dried in oven. It's kinda like never cleaning your gun. You wouldn't do that right? I really like it. OCD it is.
Using dirty brass is like eating with a dirty fork or spoon. Yeah, they work.....but what would you rather have? Just like a car....you can never wash it.....but a clean car is just nicer......bird crap on a windshield is not good. I did see a study a while back about military ball rounds.....that a clean shiny brass on a cartridge often times will attract less dirt and allows for a smoother operation of semi auto weaponry. It also helps keep the chamber of bolt action rifles cleaner. For reloaders, dirty brass is a bit tougher on reloading dies. Oily carbon is not good to have on a reloading die and dirty brass is full of it. Burned powder residue clogging the primer hole is not conductive to powder ignition.
I never once suggested using filthy brass, which of course must be clean of any debris, carbon, or abrasive corrosion. If you watch all my loading videos, you will in fact see Immaculate brass. I'm addressing the issue of SHINING brass with a tumbler, which is entirely optional, and an expense that a new loader may certainly put on the back burner until he gets his feet wet. Please be respectful of my efforts to help folks, and don't look for ways to take me out of context. Not appreciated.
My Tavor severely dents the case mouth of its 5.56 cartridge. The best info I can find on the forums out there is that the sizing dye will fix this, while one person suggested using the flaring dye. Before I run the cases through any dyes, and possibly scratch and damage the dye, I thought it best to call Lee dyes up (but its a Sunday) or ask you. What are your thoughts on this?
The dent is not so severe as to protrude into the case mouth area, but it merely flattens a part of the circle of the case mouth. One quarter of the circle of the case mouth is flattened.
COMB0RICO If the sizing stem will pass through without catching, you are fine. If more than that, you can use a long tapered macinists centering pin until you can get a Lee mouth expanding die. Do only what is required to allow the regular sizing stem to pass.
In point of fact, you are correct, but in my experience, from the questions I receive from those who consider themselves experienced loaders, and from what I have seen presented by others, much confusion and nonsense is prevalent about such "basics". There are few endeavors where a wise person won't benefit from listening to advice from a teacher.
Frankfort Arsenal Case Prep Center. Best reloading device I ever bought.
Best teacher ever. I wish I knew half what this man forgot. Great presentation. Every one of this gentlemen's videos are in-depth, and interesting through out the duration. He takes the mumbo jumbo out of reloading. Highly recommended.
He's the man to follow.
I'm glad you're sharing your knowledge. I wish my dad made videos on all his welding and motorcycle mechanics knowledge and wisdom before he passed. This is a real blessing to have men like you offering us your wisdom. Bless you sir! Subscribed
These videos are pragmatism at it's best . My time is very valuable. I want the most of my hours and minutes spent to deliver reliability and performance. From a cost aspect as well. I am so glad that you are generous with you time in these videos, instructing us and sincerely wanting the viewer to know the safe use of reloading and maximizing efficiency. You unquestionably have helped me and everything has just worked. Everything you've ever said. Thank you so much!
Update 1 year later: in your guidance, I have learned to summarize everything in this statement: brass work is all about correcting an issue. So only do what needs to be done and nothing more. Why full length size your brass back to SAAMI dimensions and lose the benefits of form-fitted brass? That's not correcting a problem, that's adding another one. And there are other things that don't need to be done that people do. Why walk 2 mi when only 1 mi is required of me? Thank you for your wisdom and experience. I am shooting the most accurate groups of my lifetime.
You Sir, are the oracle of all things pertaining to Firearms. Thank you. Cheers from Bonnie Scotland. 🇬🇧
I've watched countless hours of TH-cam firearms videos and you sir is my new go to expert. thx for the videos. changed my outlook.
The Captain is quite a resource.
Recently I came very close to purchasing a wet tumbler and a food dehydrator to clean and dry my brass. Seems like it's all the rage right now to make all your brass look brand new before loading and I almost bought into it. It's nice to hear from somebody with years of reloading under their belt that it just isn't needed. I do use a dry tumbler similar to yours, since the majority of my brass comes from me picking it up off the ground at an outdoor range I shoot at. Thank you for the dose of reality and saving me from buying into internet hype.
I watched an interview with Chief Ballistician of Berger Bullets, Bryan Litz. The big takeway from the the interview was the importance of testing out "common beliefs" held by reloaders. An example he used was the practice of chamfering flash holes. It's a belief that chamfering flash holes would lead to more consistent flash thus leading to consistent powder burn. They compared the SD in velocity between unaltered brass and chamfered brass. The test showed that chamfering had little affect on SD. Your discussion about testing brass cleanliness and accuracy reminded me of this interview. I'm glad I started watching your videos before seriously getting into reloading. It sure as there's a heaven and hell saved me time and money.
I really, really like your simplicity!!! So many channels want you to buy XYZ for better, faster, etc…. I recently started reloading and was going to get a tumbler. My 93 year old shooting pal and neighbor has been reloading forever and he has never owned a tumbler! I follow your advice and wipe down the cases. No problem so far! Thanks!
Again, thank you for your true, honest , and direct discussion on brass prep. You have shown that on this discussion there is no need for hyped tech info on this very important aspect od reloading.
Once again great video sir. Thanks for taking your time to share your knowledge with the gun community
I agree with you on the digital vs balance beam scales. I have an old but nice RCBS 10-10 scale, it replaced an inexpensive beam scale that got mashed in moving. The 10-10 settles very quickly, I was amazed how fast it was when I first used it. I'm just getting back into reloading after eight years, so, I've been watching a lot of videos. I never ever cleaned a case in my life until last night. Then I thought let's see what GunBlue thinks about cleaning cases, thank you, you just saved me a few years of fussing over something just for looks. I will get a neck brush, and I'll probably continue to clean primer pockets, just because. I'm a new subscriber, you're da man.
Excellent series. I’ve watched several times, before beginning. I also liked your advice about taking stock of ones interests. I started slowly with a good used RCBS single stage press and most importantly... reloading manuals, and tools. Thanks again
I thoroughly enjoyed this informative, sound seasoned advice. God bless
Great reloading videos. I have been reloading over 45 years and I am still learning. Great advice about following the manuals. Personally I always suggest that newbies buy a LEE or Lyman manual before any equipment or components.
Belated thank you for your videos Gun Blue..
May just say thank you for sharing your vast knowledge on this channel . Rcbs makes a trimmer head which also chamfers and deburs , all in one step. I have used it for all my 308 win.
johnny d - will this 3 in 1 Rcbs head fit on a Hornady Cam Lok trimmer?
Great information, I've been loading for years. I bought a tumbler , used it twice, and have never used it since. Like you said, it's not necessary. It was annoying, cleaning media particles from primer pocket holes.
While I have my preferences in tumblers, I have done small batches of brass using a few folded over paper towels, doused them with lighter fluid, placed my brass in a single layer, and rolled them on the towels with my flat palms. The fouling sticks to the towels (and strangley not my hands) and the brass comes out shiny in seconds. The extractor groove may need some attention, but for the most part this works great.
I know this is an old video, but I have to add one thing; get and use a primer flash hole deburring tool (Lyman $20) I've been reloading for 15+ years now, and have definitely seen using this make a difference in consistency/ accuracy. You only need to do each case once in it's life. New brass I trim to length then deburr, once fired, same thing, YOU MUST TRIM ALL CASES FIRST TO GET BEST RESULTS! I know you mention this in other videos (and in the comments on this one) but figured this would be good info for any "new" viewers :)
I got my Lyman tool this week. He recommended it in his "Super Accurate Ammo" series.
Dear Sir another awesome video and a great learning tool - I know that I will begin to enjoy my reloading again and not see it as hard work with lots of pain - all the countless hours I spent cleaning out primer pockets! A heartfelt thanks for these learning tools! I had a good laugh at my own stupidity when realizing that instead of shooting and making ammunition I was becoming a pedantic idiot! Blessings - Matthys
excellent video def gets you thinking. i really dont mind tumbling i just use a rock tumbler from harbor freight. but this makes me think is it truly needed. and i do like the clean brass. lol
Gunblue490 I have 3 ruger 44s and 2 556s and I'm building a 308 and it time to learn the craft of reloading what is step 1 a full kit with out a brass cleaner is close to 400 from what I've been seeing there has to be a cheaper way to get started. I wish we lived closer you are the best instructor on the net
I believe you when you say that the shiny clean brass has nothing to with accuracy. However I think there is something to be said for not exposing your dies and cutting tools to the bit of carbon that is on the dirty brass. Now yes it would take a long time for this carbon to play a role but if you are shooting for accuracy one should get rid of it first. I alway have used a universal depriving die and wet tumbled my brass. I towel dry it right away when it comes out of the tumbler then dry it on a cookie sheet in the 100*f oven for a few minutes. Works every time. Thanks for all your time and great reloading videos.
Bryan Betournay
Please do not take my comments out of context. I always tumble my cases, and certainly recommend that folks take great pride in their hard work. My remark is intended to let folks understand that the beginner can make very accurate and perfectly functional ammunition without obsessing over cleaning harmless tarnish from their brass, or purchasing a tumbling machine. I did not suggest that anyone insert filthy brass with grit on it into their dies. I've known competitive benchrest shooters who routinely reloaded their brass that was merely wiped carefully before loading, and such handling is not at all injurious to dies.
This is so refreshing to hear. I was worried sick about how I was gonna "clean" my brass, without a tumbler. Turns out, I've got 2 packs of 0000 wool, that will work just fine. And, I won't have to worry about putting them in the oven, or taking a blow dryer to them. Would you still recommend wiping them down with a damp rag, after the wool rubbing??? I don't wanna scratch my dies.
Great Video, I really like Your Loading Room. God Bless You too Sir
Hi, my 2cents. I reloaded for a while without lubricating the inside of my case neck when using an expander-ball and my ES was always horrible. I suppose if you reload for an AR its fine you don't need extreme accuracy. I decided to lubricate the inside of my case necks and polish my expander_ball and that was really a game changer in accuracy when using an expander-ball, the best is using a bushing die without an expander ball.
What happened was that my expander-ball became so rough(after 50 cases) that it started to scratch the inside of my case necks which causes uneven bullet seating pressure (hope that makes sense). I went from an ES of 35 to less than 10 just by lubricating the inside of my case necks before running through the polished expander-ball. Lubricating the inside also meant more work as you need to remove the lubrication before putting powder and projectile.
You'll find that Lee full length dies with their long, polished, gently tapered expander has none of those issues, and it's incredibly smooth without inside lubrication. Further, it pulls out with far less effort, and without distorting the case. My target and varmint loads are only neck sized with the Lee collet die which has no expander. You're probably aware that extruded single base powders are generally cleaner burning, and less sensitive than spherical powders to variations of any kind, including load variations. Thanks, but I have no ES issues whatsoever with any of my loads, and covered these issues in my series.
you sir are the best wish i had found yo 40 years ago it would saved me a lot trouble i ve learn a little bit you should have been a lot of help harvey i am 67 years old thank you sir
thanks for another great video lesson.
I want to mention that many of the digital scales do come with AC adaptors so batteries become a non sequitur. I'm sure you know this.
the same holds true to trimming tools.
God bless you too.
tjmooremusic
I have used digital scales, and they are fine, but there are advantages to a balance beam, and they are very fast for an experienced hand.
Steel wool and the zip trim works great for shiny cases. Or scotchbrite for more of a brushed look. I couldn't be bothered with a tumbler. My black powder .44-40s turn dark and stay that way...always go bang!
quality cases: Lapua, Nozler/Norma, Lake City.
For new cases debur flash hole, fired cases primer pocket uniforming, anneal using Tempilaq for correct neck/shoulder temperature, neck turning after trimming, sort cases by weight, full length resize with shoulder bump back 0.002", bench rest primers for minimum variation in velocity.
I have been watching your videos and have bought a Mec press and Lee dies for a 300 win mag. I have never reloaded before and want to be as safe as possible. My rifle is a Ruger tang safety that I bought new in 1983 it has given me great service. I am disabled and limited on my physical ability and reloading has always been a goal of mine. I just want to make sure I fully understand reloading belted cases. I know they can develop a second belt after reloading a few times. If you can be of any help to me I would appreciate it very much. I have not seen anything about belted cases from you as far as reloading. I want to make a safe round and not have any accidents from lack of knowledge, which you are the best information I have found. Thank you for any help. God bless
Another great no nonsense video, thanks Gunblue490.
Thank you for the information. Take care!
I like my Forster original case trimmer for small lots of commercial brass. In that role, it's hard to beat but it's not ideal for trimming large quantities of once fired lake city 7.62 brass. It will do the job but it's a real pain in the ass. I prefer the Giraud tri-way cutter for that job. It may take you 30-60 seconds to trim each piece of brass with the Forster whereas the Tri-Way cutter will trim each piece in 3-5 seconds if you're set up right. If you don't have the the Forster three way cutter head, you'll have to chamfer and deburr each piece as well which is hell on my hands after about 30 minutes. With the Giraud tri-way cutter, your cases are chamferred and deburred after the 5-6 second trim operation which is a major time saver and hand saver plus your chamfer is consistent. With the Giraud tri-way cutter, you index the cartridge off the case shoulder after full length resizing so to have consistent case trims, you need to have consistent resizing first. It's inevitable that you'll end up with variation in the neighborhood of +- .001" with the Giraud. Theoretically, you shouldn't have that problem with the Forster original case trimmer but, in practice, I find that the Forster case trimmer can have considerably more variation than +- .001" when you're trimming large volumes of once fired Lake City 7.62 brass. If you're trimming small volumes of commercial brass, the Forster will keep everything basically right on the money. The Lee tool is OK but you still have to deburr and chamfer the cases and the Giraud is faster and easier. The Lee tool is great when you're starting out though because it's cheap and it works. I don't think most benchrest shooters use it though from what I have seen. If I were benchrest shooting, I would definitely use the Forster case trimmer/pilot system. If I was making a ton of ammo to shoot up in my semi-auto battle rifles, I would go with the Giraud triway cutter. If money were no object, I would get the Giraud power trimmer for sure. I recently acquired several thousand once fired Lake City 5.56 cases and I think I'm just going to break down and buy another tri-way trimmer for 5.56 and get it all trimmed up in an afternoon. It's hard to beat that reloading tool.
ben dover
Thank you. I am demonstrating a process and what it accomplishes, not advocating a brand.
Iv been reloading 45-70-500s with black powder and if always chunked the brass into a jug full of soapy water, the brass is a pretty color of black, brown, red lol, but what you say Sir sure makes sense about not getting moister in the case, I will give the wipe off method a try , thank you.
Oh, black powder is about as messy as one can get, being largely charcoal. Washing may be the only practical means, but just be sure to keep your powded dry. LOL Have fun!
@@GunBlue490 I am not sure I have caught your name in any of the videos, but I have to say I really enjoy them, so much wisdom and well versed in what your saying and teaching. Plus your voice really sounds a lot like my grandpa's voice it's really soothing.
That being said here is something that may make you chuckle. So I am shooting an orginal Springfield Trapdoor full size battle rifle.... made in 1886. I am 5'4 so the gun is nearly as long as I am tall. 😂
My cousin told me I sure went in a different direction, I was using a Mossburge .243 win for most of my hunting, but borrowed my uncle's. 444 Marlin handy rifle and I was hooked, later got myself a 45-70govt Handy rifle, I made friends with a gun shop owner in Oregon he had this Springfield for a nice price, I was like can I make payments? He was like sure
.. took 5 months, but I got it and I love it, it's way more accurate than I thought it would be. 😄 anywho I am rambling, God bless.
Great info. Thank you.
I got a tumbler given to me...I'll use it for now. Considering the redundancy of tumbling as you say, it blows my mind some people use ultrasonic cleaners! Any comments and experiences on that are appreciated.
Great advice thank you.
It would be nice if you would do a video on the set up of the New Lee's Auto-Drum Powder Measure on the Lee's Classic Turret Press.
Id really like to talk to u my father was a very well known shooter he has passed when i was 16 just starting to reload with his guidance i have always been drawn to long range and with his custom built 22-250 i still due shoot offs at the local gun clubs and these fellas know the gun from my father and know it well along with me and my father he taught me how to shoot first and formost when i got my form down then he said we will move on to the mill and lathe then to reloading. I got a book and when i say a book i should say books and materials to build bullets i have gotten pretty good at custom bullet making over the years i always used his powder from 1995 was the last jug i had some that had to be from 80s they didnt loose no umph at all over the years.. my question is todays powders i have not jad nore payed attention to the change or numbers off available powders. i want to load my son some 223 loads for his journey like mine he has built his own ar15 in 556 nato with a 1/9 twist
In reading Richard Lees book, he mentions being careful with tumber media......apparently lead can concentrate in the media dust. I went for many years also not having a tumbler...seems to be a toy we gravitate to. The ones who sell range brass apparently use stainless steel media for tumbling and it produces a shiny case from the most tarnished....I don't know if that is good or bad.
George1mac
I used stainless steel tumbling media when I was an electroplater in my younger days, especially to strip rejected plating. In the industry, they are called "points", as they are shaped like sharp footballs, about 1/4 inch long. They are extremely aggressive, and actually erode brass quite badly if not watched like a hawk. I have seen reclaimed brass that you speak of, and it usually shows eroded headstamps, pockmarked necks where the brass is soft, and dulled edges. It's no particular bargain. I would never recommend tumbling with points! It is so aggressive that it requires special stainless steel barrels. It would shred a plastic one in short order.
George1mac
Regards to the lead dust, it is a serious concern, especially near children. I use 4 inch cut squares of used dryer softening sheets during the process that attracts the dust. Remove with gloves or tongs and toss.
I will agree with you on brass accuracy and shininess..... However... I like Shiney... Lol. I am ocd. Lol.. I honestly don't want others knowing I reload at the range.... Saves me the constant "sorry, I only reload for myself."
Someone asks what my ammo. Is... I look at the headstamp "oh... These are some federal" .. Or whatever I read.
You make great videos!
With confidence from watching your videos I am getting into this. I just deprimed and cleaned all my .308 Win brass and am taking a look at the cases and their length. I am noticing some cases (PPU brass) are quite a bit shorter than 2.005". However, I am noticing that these cases have a 'lip' on the outside of the neck rim. Do you chamfer and debur cases that haven't been trimmed?
thanks for another great video. please could you expand video to cover neck turning, what is acceptable difference in brass thickness around neck and measuring consentricity of case after resizing? again what is acceptable. also what is your take on full sizing versus neck sizing. thank you!
Peet JOUBERT
I will cover those issues separately in another video. However, I did speak of that in some detail in my Accuracy Rifle, the Ammo video.
Enjoyed watching I was de-capping some brass letting the video run. Enjoyed the video, I agree with everything you shared in the video. I started shooting long range metallic silhouette with a lot of serious extreme long range guys and they got me to being anal about the aesthetics as you said but I have found that other than pretty brass no performance difference in ammo. The video was just the right length I enjoy your videos
I like shiny brass because it's cool to have a good-looking end product, but also I like to run clean brass through my dies so I don't have to clean them too often.
Anyhow is there no merit to operations like neck turning and sorting brass by weight or verifying neck concentricity or whatever people do?
Carl M
Yes, there is merit in case sorting and segregation, which I will cover in another segment.
I like my loaded ammo to look better than new.....and it is. I don't think of it as a "reload" because it's not. A lot of time, research, pick of a certain brand and weight of bullet and powder has gone into the load for rifle, shotgun or pistol and I like the appearance to reflect this.
@@patrickslevin6424 I like your reasoning even though I don't clean brass.
Another great video. I am guilty of liking shiney brass and tumble both wet and dry. I agree it doesn't make a hill of beans difference in performance. In the past I've obsessed with trim length but have recently concluded I trim to much. My 223 and 308 only requires a quick trim after around 3 cycles. I check them every time with a case length gauge.
Kip Wright
There is no harm in trimming every time, if you are inclined, as long as you stay within the 10 thousandths min-max dimensions. The important thing is to never shoot brass that is beyond maximum.
thanks for the great videos lots of info what is your take on primer pocket uniforming
As always Sir, Thank you.
Gun blue is the absolute last word on firearms he knows more about guns then anybody on the planet!!!
Another great video thanks! I suppose the primer flash hole reamer is another OCD/accuracy pastime?I never used any cleaning for years initially. Now I collect range brass (pistol) and it usually needs cleaning, but I like the speed of the ultrasonic ones. They do need overnight drying time though so the savings are moot.
toy collector
Actually, I consider primer flash hole reaming to be essential for most new brass, because the holes are punched and leave a tag or other interior burrs that will prevent even flash distribution, which will absolutely affect uniform ignition. High grade brass will sometimes use a superior manufacturing process that will prevent or eliminate burrs. I will discuss this in the preparation of new brass. It is done only once, and must be done with a tool that will limit cutting, or a case can be weakened in this critical area.
Is it useful to trim pistol brass to uniformity to get a consistent crimp? Does variation in crimping impact accuracy noticeably? The variation in crimping occurring because of inconsistent brass length due to different manufacturers of the brass.
COMB0RICO
Most pistol brass is very uniform in length. I have never trimmed pistol brass in my life, because it helps nothing. Cases that headspace on the mouth. such as 380, 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, and 45 ACP must never, ever, be trimmed. Rimmed cases theoretically could be, but there is nothing to be gained, and it would ruin the nice factory drawn taper at the mouth. Pistol cartridges use relatively fast burning powders that are unaffected by the slight crimps used, except for only certain powders that demand a heavy crimp. Most rimmed cartridges should not have a heavy crimp, as it shortens brass life, and pistol cases cannot be safely annealed due to their shortness. The crimp is there mostly to facilitate smooth loading in revolvers. Heavy recoiling calibers should be crimped only enough to hold the bullets tight during recoil, and no more. A heavy crimp is required for magnums when using slow burning powders such as Win 296 and H-110 in combination with magnum or double duty primers as Winchester and Remington use, which helps insure ignition.
Just pulled a 22-250 case with a split neck after its first firing. It definitely pays to check all the cases.
Do you have a video on de-crimping 9mm military brass?
superb as usual
When preparing ammunition for competition do you prefer a single stage press as opposed to a progressive press. I have a Dillon 550 I use for 45acp and 9mm. I was looking at a Lee Breech Lock Challenger and the are only $79. Please let me know what you think. Thanks Al
Competition covers a broad spectrum of meanings. Precision shooting with a rifle can also have different meanings, whether you're a competitor in a benchrest match for thousandths of an inch, or competing on the line at a CMP or military match where winners win by scoring rings measuring feet. Progressive presses are not less precise; they don't however permit each stage to be handled individually to "feel" the procedure being performed. When I'm shooting competitive CMP rifle, I am using ammo made by my Load Master fully progressive press. Likewise for bowling pin shoots with my 45, or any other purpose for which I'm loading large quantities. My AR-15 National Match Service Rifle shoots the loads I make with it into MOA or less, which is more accuracy than necessary for that game. The Breech Lock Challenger is a sturdy press and will make very high grade ammo. I'd use the Lee dies, too, which I consider outstanding on any brand press.
Always felt I needed to clean out a primer pocket, now I don't, saving me time and fuss. What's your thoughts on using Hornady HK66 Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge Kit with Body to adjust full length sizing. I've never used this and never had any problems with my brass.
It's a silly tool. Your gun does that. There are only two ways to size brass. The most common fully sizes them and provides safe factory headspace for assured cycling. The other, which should be used only for target shooting and nonessential varmint shooting, neck sizes only, leaving the body as fired with zero headspace in the gun in which it was fired. That method requires a neck sizing die, and the only company that makes one that works correctly is Lee, which compresses the neck around a mandrel without distorting the body. Full length sizing dies should not be used for any degree of partial sizing because they will merely distort the brass and create a secondary shoulder at the neck, but you certainly don't require a tool to achieve that. The standard process has always been nothing more than backing off the die a couple of turns, then incrementally lowering it by 8ths until the case fits and the bolt closes with the desired effort. They do not set the shoulder back unless they are adjusted to full size. Customizing a full length die adjustment is an entirely bogus premise, because full length dies are not made that way. Hornady knows better.
@@GunBlue490 You are very misinformed.
The Hornady headspace comparison tool allows you to _control_ the amount of shoulder setback when you’re full length resizing the case.
Setting back the shoulder to about .002” from whatever it comes out of your chamber as is a simple way to get more brass life before the case head splits and to get a better chamber fit for increased accuracy.
If you think resizing the way is a “gimmick” then maybe you need to spend less time flapping your gums and more time getting reloading and shooting experience.
You seem to be a real “expert” at saying stupid things and parroting misinformation.
Maybe you should stay in your lane?
Excellent videos, your's are my first choice for reloading info.
Question, I watched your video on COAL by using scotch tape. I am a newbie reloader, ...why can't I take a fire formed cartridge, knock the primer out, tighten the neck a bit and place whatever bullet I am going to use in the mouth (barely snug), chamber the round, close the bolt,and then extract. Won't the lands push the bullet back to OAL, leave "land marks" on the bullet, and I can just back off 0.020 from that COAL to improve accuracy?
Christopher M
That's one of several methods I have used. Don't expect to read land marks, as they are usually difficult to discern from other chambering scrapes. With many rifles, it is possible to just seat a bullet partially into a fully sized or neck sized empty case and just chamber it. Unless the rifling is very grabby, the bullet will not stick on retrieval, and you can make your measurements accordingly. If you think it's sticking and giving a false reading, apply magic marker to the bullet first, which will leave a telltale where the case reached its full engagement. There are many ways to accomplish this; I provided this one because it's good universally with guns that don't have strong chambering leverage, such as autos, pumps, and levers.
GunBlue490 thank you for your speedy response.
...and your excellent videos!
I do the deprime and soak method to clean them. Then I warm them on the plate warming setting in the oven to dry them in the winter. I inspect the case & primer pockets after they are clean and dry. Handling clean brass and removing any primer lead residue from my reloading area is worth the time and peace of mind.
What about uniform primer pocket depth ? Is this a concern ? How important is that primers seating depth ? Maybe this will be in a future set of videos.
LIVIN CINCY
It is not the seating depth, but only that each primer be seated firmly, so that the anvil is set. There is no science to this procedure. The best primer seating tools have good feedback to the operator, so it can be felt. Never over exert or seat lightly.
Thank you.
I was looking at SAAMI data on the 9mm and you can have components, primers & cases, that all meet specifications that will seat at different depths. They have ranges that the manufacturers must meet. This perplexed me as it did not correlate. I was thinking that I would have to measure my primers and case then sort them to get everything to work out...
There are so many voices saying how important below flush to some number is. You can buy so many products manufactured to help get your primer pockets & seating depth uniform these days that I was confused. It seems that precision loading is confused with OCD.
Thanks again for saving me money !
LIVIN CINCY
The variations in primers are extremely slight, and are made within industry tolerances. When using automated priming systems, seating force should be checked whenever primer brands are changed, to be sure they are fully set, or conversely, not being flattened.
Shiny brass easier to find in grass and separate from range trash of same caliber . Gas guns can throw em . I don't mind tumbling .
So performance of the round is not influenced by how clean the brass might be. Good. I could never argue with that especially with my shooting skill level :) ). But, would debris (carbon fouling etc.) cause any problems with the loading process or loading equipment. Do you use your tumbler?
Patent Arms
As I said, a simple cleaning wipedown is the only necessary degree of cleanliness. Interior loose carbon is virtually nonexistent, as it is expelled during firing. The only part of a two piece rifle die that contacts the inside is the hardened decapping pin and hardened expander ball that are totally unaffected by whatever debris they encounter. Pistol dies have an expander that is equally hard. They are made for that, and cannot be harmed, even under the most extreme circumstances. Of course, I am speaking of fired cases; not sandy ones picked up under foot, which require sensible cleaning. I do use my tumbler, simply for esthetic purposes, but very often leave the procedure out. Pickup brass should be cleaned to eliminate sand and dirt, which is easily done with a tumbler, but I did it for years with nothing more than a nylon brush and a rag. I love clean and bright brass, but tarnished work just as well, and are no issue for dies.
Thanks. Your advice means a lot to me.
Thanks again for your helpful videos. If I missed this in one of your videos, I apologize in advance. I am trying to get my ruger 308 Hawkeye hunting rifle to shoot a tight group. The best that I can get is about 1.25 MOA. I have gotten my 7mm mag and 300 win mag both to shoot about 3/4 MOA. (Both are also Ruger Hawkeye rifles except that they have 24 inch barrels, the 308 has a 22 inch barrel.) I use Hornady SST bullets for all these rifles. Would you expect bullet seating depth changes to help this accuracy? I could not remember if you had ever said much about this in your videos. Thanks again and please keep your videos coming.
Playing with bullet seating depth can for sure help to shrink groups. Some bullets like a tiny jump to the lands, others can shoot with a larger jump.
I always wet tumble to remove lube after depriming, FL resizing (when not using fire formed) and trimming if needed. I then place in oven on cookie sheet at 170 degrees for 20 min to dry out prior to setting primer, powder and bullets. My question: Is this temp ok for short time? I don't want to damage the brass in any way or create an unsafe situation. 20 mins seems to always get them bone dry.
The temp is fine I do the same thing never had a problem.
I don't clean my cases either. But I do uniform the primer pockets.
Christopher Paul
Do you mean uniforming of the pockets or flash holes? The flash hole is the only portion that is involved with uniform ignition. As long as they have no internal burs or irregular diameters, the flash will be as consistent as the primers. The pocket is only a receptacle for the primer, and has nothing to do whatsoever with ignition, whether they are new and very tight, or loosened from several firings. Some brands are a bit more snug than others, but it makes no difference, except to the life of the case, where tight pockets can withstand more loadings before loosening. A Go-No go plug gauge can be used I like to make sure they are safely snug to specifications. folks are thinking critically, and not responding to fads and trends.
I insert the flash hole tool into the case until it comes through the flash hole and the stop is against the case mouth. If this is the first time the case is reloaded, there will be a burr on the inside of the case. A twist of the uniforming tool removes the burr. There is another tool that I use to remove carbon from the primer pocket. Cleaning the pocket is supposed to ensure the primers are seated to the same depth so as not to cause a variance in lock time.
Christopher Paul
It was your terminology. You are uniforming the flash holes, which I recommend, but not primer pockets. I discuss this matter fully in my primer video, which I encourage you to watch. Lock time has absolutely nothing to do with pocket cleaning. I did extensive testing 30 years ago with primer pockets, and no amount of scrubbing makes a bit of difference. The reason is quite simple: Boxer primers are self contained ignition systems. When you seat the primer cup until it bottoms on the pocket floor, it has pre-loaded the anvil and depressed it uniformly, regardless of the pocket depth. The ignition gap is set between the anvil and cup, period, and has nothing to do with the primer cup to pocket relationship. You could not seat the anvil unless the cup bottoms, and it makes no difference if it bottoms on ash or brass, because it will cut through and bottom very nicely. When the anvil is seated, it's seated. This is another one of the little ways that pockets are picked for our hard earned cash. It's a little thing, yes, but it's still a sham that has been going around for years, and is an entire waste of time and effort that could be used for other more meaningful achievements.
GunBlue490 I like your videos! I like the way you explain things as simple as they are. I like your calm and unexcited talking. Great work! Best wishes and God bless from Austria/Europe!
How important is it, to get your brass all to the same length, to gain maximus accuarcy? For example. I shoot a lot of .222 remington with RWS brass. My cases are between 1.693''-1.697''. Is this too much deviation?
Hello Sir,
I hope you are well and winter is being kind to you and your family.
As always, excellent information and thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
Hello to Benny.
God bless you Sir
Sincerely,
Rick Mansberger
GunBlue, I have an advanced reloading case preparation question. Background: I acquired a .30 Newton a while back. As you know, cases for the .30 Newton are difficult to come by. I have some from Jamison's Cartridges. Recently a friend gave me some Speer cases (which were probably made in the 50s). But these .30 Newton cases were necked to .270. In order to get them back to the correct neck size, should I load the case with a moderate to stiff load, cap it with wax and fire in the rifle or just run the case in the .30 Newton FL sizing die? I suspect annealing would be required after either procedure. Thank you.
I have often necked up by one caliber increment, and down by two. Your situation calls for an up increase of two, which may be strenuous, or may even be too much for a standard sizing ball to fit without crushing. My preference is Lee dies, which use a long tapered neck expander that I believe would easily handle the task. A second consideration would be to use a 7mm ball first in your 30 die to progressively expand them. Yes, I would anneal them first, but be careful, or you will crush your necks. I'm not a fan of fire forming undersized case necks, as there is too much rearward leakage.
@@GunBlue490 Thank you, Sir. Much appreciated. GBU and GBA!
Gunblue490, Thank you for the video, and I am just getting started into reloading. If I disregard case tumbling to clean brass, will my resizing dies get overly dirty or grimy over time? Will I need to clean them or does it not even matter?
Are the nickel plated cartridges safe to reload? I recently shot some Sig Sauer Elite 30-06 rounds and Hornady GMX. Any caveats?
I noticed that your Forster turning tool has the screw type case holder. I found that the one I had did not always hold the cases at the same depth depending on how hard I turned the handle. How do you assure the case length when you use that tool? Mine would vary a great deal depending on several factors.
Mine seldom varies more than .001", more than acceptable for case trimming.
Terrific.
What is the largest deviation in thousandths among trimmed cases in their newly trimmed lengths that would not affect accuracy.
I'm new to reloading and use a tumbler to clean the inside of the brass. It's nice to know that I don't need to clean the primer pocket any more but do you need to clean the carbon inside of the casing?
338 MRAD
Nope. Powder burns exactly the same, and the carbon is nothing more than a glaze. My woodstove burns wood, regardless of the soot inside.
How about an annealing video?
Siesta Time
I plan on doing one in a separate video.
Cap, I'm not sure if I saw this in this particular video or another but the question remains. You said you only trim your case once??? I probably, almost certainly mistook what you said or meant because I like you have a Forester case trimmer and I trim my cases usually every 2nd or 3rd shooting and resizing. I guess what I'm asking is what you meant by "You only do this once?" What, during the process of cases for loading do you only do once?
Patrick Slevin
I trim as required, whenever cases exceed specified length, which varies depending on caliber, pressure, resizing method, or whatever. A top end 22-250 case being full length resizing may get one or two firings, while a top end 222 Remington case resized with a Lee collet die may go a dozen or more. Let the length decide.
Thank You
My two tumblers haven't been used for years. I blow out the inside of my cases with almost 60,000 psi, every time I pull the trigger. That seems to be enough.
Thanks.
I've recently learned about an annealer called the "AMP" Annealing Made Perfect. It is done by induction. Have you heard of this type of annealing? It seems to have antiquated all other types of annealing with a flame. I'd love to get your feedback.
Jeffrey M. Green
Yes, I'm aware of the machine, made in New Zealand. The cost runs $1,100 without each individual pilot that is required for each case that is of different neck diameter. Due to thermal protection, the unit will shut down after as few as 40 rounds while it must cool down and reset. Pretty pricey for my taste, for a machine that does the same thing as a precisely controled flame that can run uninterrupted. Induction is old as the hills, and should not be thought of as a new invention. Back in the day when house pipes were threaded instead of sweated solder (from the turn of the century until the 80s or so), welders in my part of the country went around to houses with frozen pipes and hooked up their big rectifiers to boiler and water systems, and passed current through them, which melted ice through induction. Induction stovetops have been around for 30 years. Edison used conduction to light the filament in his bulb, and the heated glass is inducted.
Every ammo company in the world uses flame for the annealing process, and that's how military brass is annealed. There's nothing inferior about it, nor is there anything superior about AMP, except its silly price tag for what amounts to a tiny inefficient rectifier with heat control, which is a miniature welder in disguise. Do you know how big a professional welder you can buy for eleven hundred dollars?
Thank you for your quick reply and thank you because you just saved me $1100+! When you put up your video on "flame" annealing, I'll be the guy in the front row seat taking notes! When you do your video can you discuss the pros and cons of the different designs of the flame style annealers? I'm a bit overwhelmed with which one to invest into. The "Annealez" seems affordable. The whole idea behind the torch annealing seems very subjective and that's why I wrote in to you. Again thank you for taking the time to respond.
I've done lots of annealing over the years, and it can range from very frustrating to simple, using the old seat of pants methods. Standing cases in water up to about 2/3rds and heating them with a torch was the old stand by. The water was there simply as a heat sink to prevent over heating. Many of the hand made automated units work beautifully, which is essentially the Annealeeze type, which is a very good, though noisy one. Though admittedly expensive, I personally prefer the Bench-Source machine, because of several features; it allows the use of two flames that more uniformly distribute heat during the very short heating interval, it has more precise timing, which is very helpful in maintaining critical temperatures, and its base is heavy aluminum, which conducts excess heat away. Probably the biggest reason that I like it is its quietness. It is semi automated, requiring human interaction to feed cases, so it is not quite as convenient as bulk processing machines. I don't think it would take much to adapt a Lee Loadmaster case feeder to it.
Yes, I will hopefully do a video on this process, including the old water pan method, when time permits.
When we reload sooner, not annealing, sooner or later we have to replace the piece of brass we use. I calculate the cost of my brass (as a depreciating asset) into the cost of my reloads (bullet cost, primer cost, powder cost) and my calculation is 8 cents. I buy a box of factory ammunition to get my brass for reloading. I subtract the cost of that bullet, powder and primer from the price per round to derive my cost of the brass. I then divide that cost by the number of expected firings I will get before I discard that brass. Dividing that cost into the cost of the AMP machine; per my calculations, I would have to reload 14,375 rounds to break-even on the cost of the AMP machine.
At the rate of rounds I fire per year, it would take me years to break even and in the meantime, I would have gone through several barrel replacements. There is no way I can make cents (sense) out of paying that much money for the machine. Finally, sooner or later I am going to have to replace my brass even when annealing. Each to their own, it does not pencil out well for me.
Good video. 👍 Are you from Mass? NH?
How do you treat unfired brass, if you do at all? I bought some Hornady brass for my 270 and before I load it, I was wondering if theres any preparation for new brass that you recommend?
Andrei Fedorov
That depends on the brand. Expensive brands such as Nosler and Lapua brass comes carefully prepped by the factory and are carefully packaged, while less expensive brass are bagged loosely and have not been prepped for loading. Inspect the condition and factory preparation, and proceed accordingly. Bagged brass may easily be dented or distorted due to rough handling, and should be run through a sizing die to iron them out. If the case mouths are not factory chamfered, which is typical with less expensive brass, they must be chamfered and deburred before a bullet is seated. I always use a properly adjusted inside primer hole prep tool to clean off any burs inside the case, which is entirely optional, performed only once. High grade brass is more than just pretty; it generally has better weight uniformity, meaning internal volume uniformity, cleaner flash holes, and are ready to load.
How critical is it to de-burr the flash hole of handgun cartridges? If so, what de-burring tool do you recommend? It seems all the high end de-burring tools such as the 21st Century brand are for rifle cartridges only. The low end low priced models such as the Lyman have a beveled cutting surface and I feel that leaves too much room for error? Are these tools only for rifle cartridges and should never be considered to be used on handgun cartridges?
Harry Callahan
I would not bother with handgun cartridges. The difference with rifle cartridges can only be measured in sub parts of MOA, at best, and would never be of consequence in handguns, except with such rounds as the 221 Fireball, which is actually a rifle cartridge. The Lyman is inexpensive, easy to set up, and foolproof, if used as I described, and will not bevel the hole if set to simply remove the burr, also as I described. It's not a matter to make a big deal with, and certainly not one to spend undue money or attention to. All it does is uniform the cases, which eliminates flyers with cases that sometimes have large burrs.
The flyers as you described will the large burrs get removed once that round has been fired?
Harry Callahan
Burrs are removed as I described, not from firing. I spent considerable time detailing this information on the video. I left nothing out, and made it clear that this isn't done for MOA factory ammo and rifles. I recommend what I recommend, and if you follow my instructions, you will have extremely accurate ammo. Harry, I regret that I have too many other folks to answer, so I cannot respond to any more of yours, unless you have something of serious interest beyond curiosity.
I have watched this video 3 times and you never once mentioned de-burring of flash holes. I have watched most of your videos and you stress highly the safety and performance aspects of re-loading. I am just being thorough which I have assumed you would appreciate? I have a serious interest and therefore my questions. Thank you sir.
Harry Callahan
I covered de-burring of primer flash holes extensively and in great detail in the primer video, which is consistent with the topic of primers, ignition, and flash holes.
What if the brass is short?
Is it a good idea to champher brand new brass to prevent the inside edge of the case mouth from scraping bullets during seating?
COMB0RICO
Yes, I always do a light chamfering with new cases, or any time I trim.
what about carbon inside the case neck? some target shooters are obsessing of getting that out. difference at all ?
Brent Gates
Consistent accuracy is a consistency issue. Carbon inside case necks have nothing to do with consistency. Bullets do not slide from case necks; the case neck releases them before the bullet moves, and the release is identical whether black or shiny. The accuracy of my old cases with blackened case neck is absolutely the same as brand new cases, and they shoot into precisely the same group, and chronographed rounds of both kinds measure the same velocity. No, it makes no difference whatsoever. I do suggest a single pass of a soft nylon case neck brush with a very small trace of case lube to ease expander ball friction, which reduces case stretch and longer case life, but whether dirty inside or not, well made loads with properly developed components produce fine results. Aggressive cleaning methods I have seen detailed amount to only satisfaction for busy work, but avail nothing except abraded brass and reduced case life. Though unsightly, cases may be reloaded multiple times without cleaning, and without one iota of change in accuracy.
Some reloaders will put their brass in the oven to dry them out after rinsing.
I wont assemble a round with a dirty case. Stainless pins and detergent. Dried in oven. It's kinda like never cleaning your gun. You wouldn't do that right? I really like it. OCD it is.
Using dirty brass is like eating with a dirty fork or spoon. Yeah, they work.....but what would you rather have? Just like a car....you can never wash it.....but a clean car is just nicer......bird crap on a windshield is not good. I did see a study a while back about military ball rounds.....that a clean shiny brass on a cartridge often times will attract less dirt and allows for a smoother operation of semi auto weaponry. It also helps keep the chamber of bolt action rifles cleaner.
For reloaders, dirty brass is a bit tougher on reloading dies. Oily carbon is not good to have on a reloading die and dirty brass is full of it. Burned powder residue clogging the primer hole is not conductive to powder ignition.
I never once suggested using filthy brass, which of course must be clean of any debris, carbon, or abrasive corrosion. If you watch all my loading videos, you will in fact see Immaculate brass. I'm addressing the issue of SHINING brass with a tumbler, which is entirely optional, and an expense that a new loader may certainly put on the back burner until he gets his feet wet. Please be respectful of my efforts to help folks, and don't look for ways to take me out of context. Not appreciated.
My Tavor severely dents the case mouth of its 5.56 cartridge. The best info I can find on the forums out there is that the sizing dye will fix this, while one person suggested using the flaring dye. Before I run the cases through any dyes, and possibly scratch and damage the dye, I thought it best to call Lee dyes up (but its a Sunday) or ask you. What are your thoughts on this?
The dent is not so severe as to protrude into the case mouth area, but it merely flattens a part of the circle of the case mouth. One quarter of the circle of the case mouth is flattened.
COMB0RICO
If the sizing stem will pass through without catching, you are fine. If more than that, you can use a long tapered macinists centering pin until you can get a Lee mouth expanding die. Do only what is required to allow the regular sizing stem to pass.
I'll try it now! Thanks!
The sizing dye straightened it right out. Thanks again!
With all due respect Sir, this is not “Advanced Reloading.” I believe this would be a basic step in reloading.
In point of fact, you are correct, but in my experience, from the questions I receive from those who consider themselves experienced loaders, and from what I have seen presented by others, much confusion and nonsense is prevalent about such "basics". There are few endeavors where a wise person won't benefit from listening to advice from a teacher.
You. Mention. Dents. In. The. Case.. I. Once. Found. 30 06 spr... hunting. Round. With. Some. Dents. In. The. Powder. Chamber. And The. Neck and. Shoulder.... where. They. Come. Together.... I. Used. This. Round. On. A. Target..and. I. Realize. Now. This. Was. My. First. Example. Of. Fire. Forming. Because. The. Case. Looked. Perfect. After. The. Shot.. we. Always. Picked. Up all. Our. Empty. Cases. my. Dad. Said....It. Was. From. The. Pressure. In. The. Rifle. Chamber. From. The. Burning. Powder... I. Knew. Almost. Nothing. At. That. Time. About. Reloading. Or. Wild cating.... and. Dad. Said. Do. You. Know. How. Much. Heat. and. Pressure.. is. Generated...when. you. Fire. A. Hunting Round.. or. Any. Rifle. Round. For. That. Matter... here. Feel. This. The. Barrel. Is. Warm. Is.nt. it... and. That. is. From. One. Shot.. have. A. Nice. Day.....