MILD CAM ADDS 85 HP! JUNKYARD LS STREET CAM BATTLE-3 ELGIN STICKS DO BATTLE WITH A BTR DYNAMIC DUO!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- HOW MUCH POWER IS A CAM SWAP WORTH? HOW CAN I IMPROVE POWER ON MY LS? WILL A MILD CAM ADD POWER DOWN LOW? HOW IMPORTANT IS CAM DURATION? WITH THE HECK IS CAM BIGNESS? IS THE SLOPY STAGE 2 CAM THE BEST CAM EVER? DOES ELGINE MAKE DIFFERENT CAMS THAN THE SLOPPY STAGE 2? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I COMPARED TWO ELGIN CAMS TO THE STOCK 5.3L L33 CAM AND THE FAMOUS SLOPPY STAGE 2 CAM. I ALSO TOSSED IN A PAIR OF BTR CAMS, THE TRUCK NORRIS AND THE NEW HOT ROD CAM FOR GOOD MEASURE. SPOILER ALERT-SMALLER CAMS MAKE MORE LOW SPEED TORQUE AND BIGGER CAMS MAKE MORE TOP-END HP!
Seems like BTR is really hitting the next level in cam design. The truck Norris has super impressive torque gains down low, but doesn't fall off very bad at the top. That Hot Rod cam makes impressive power with less duration than others also
Hey Richard! Another fantastic test!
One request I have, can you report manifold vacuum at idle? That would give us some understanding for how well these cams would behave in a street car. -Thanks!
Dont think he can/wants to, he's stated before that he doesn't tune idle at all he just tunes WOT for power/Tq comparisons, theres no need to tune idle to dyno test an engine
People that want power don't care about vacuum. They either run manual brakes or get an electric vacuum pump and reservoir.
Hello Richard. I have also the summit cam of 218/227 523/524lift. Good to see you using it. Now I can see what to expect. I also have the Elgin 220/224 575lift cam. Reason I don’t have them in yet is because I’ve ran out of money buying all the other dodads to add hp. Now I’m considering porting my 862 heads and mating surface to fit the 6.0. This has been a long road for building up a motor to produce 100 more horsepower. Lol
Thanks Richard!!
I was using Elgin before sloppy stage whatever was a thing.
They make excellent cams.
BTR seem to really know their stuff. Impressive
I was on some of the chats with BTR, Ed Curtis and Jay Allen back in 1997 ish on the original 5.0 way before he got big and it was a more one on one type customer service. So he's been around and improved over time.
What about Jay Allen?
@@ThunderMonarch Jay Allen was on the chat, i typoed. Back then he was big on "big head/small cam" it didn't make sense at the time with all the propoganda that most of us got to hear.
Jay Allen ideas had me doing big heads small cam. He used the ls platform as a example
I wonder if he is still around
I cannot quit watching all these cam test 😜 I’ve always been fascinated by cams more then anything else on motor test!!!!!You are by far the best in cams and combo test.Could you please keep showing the labels on the cam boxes with all the specs and numbers?And please give us a longer look at these🙏I always try to screenshot them but sometimes it’s not easy.A big thumbs up on the blow on the dyno graphs and showing the high rpm power and the low end power 👍👍love the 6.0 test the best but the 5.3 is very good too. I’m really liking the smaller cams that are good all the up to say 6000 with no bottom loses!!!love the lower lift test proving what I always thought would work a a street car.I would like more of your input on the stock springs making more power on these cams.I’m an addict to your channel😵💫
Thanks for the video and all the time and hard work you put in for all of this.
Man, that 218 cam is a beauty.
Currently have a sloppy stage 3 cam in my 5th gen… runs real strong up top!!
"If some's good, MORE is better." Stroker McGurk
Have you reviewed David Vizards ideas on cam timing? I have tried his ideas on my desktop Dyno program and then in a SBC build and found better torque output but had HP drop off compared to a similar cam with wider lobe sep. Both cams used the same masters for lobe profiles. I did optimize the installations based on desktop Dyno results.
Truck Norris for the win.......as usual. This cam WILL outrun the others no problem in a street application.
Awesome knowledge shared again .. Thank you Richard.
SS2 still looks great to me, non emissions road course (4800-6900rpm). Still small by most aftermarket standards
I didn't see the part numbers I believe I found them as e-1251-p and e-1250-p
I have 2 LS 5.3 engines.,..one in 07 Tahoe that I'm finishing now...and one w Elgin sloppy stage 2.in my 68 Chevy truck...did the springs in both,560s....so I will have a report soon....but it seems there all pretty close...nice to have this kind of options....thx...great info....doing my builds learning from "the man"....truck Norris in the Tahoe.......
I have 5.3 with comp cams xr265/271 54-412-11, with tbss intake and injectors. Runs very good. . Close to that. Maybe you should do the comp cams test. I've always used comp cams valve train parts
Altering LSA's via a custom grind can balance the low end versus high end differences as well.
So adding exhaust duration and wider lsa will help high rpm power. Keeping intake duration low will help bottom end torque.
Evidently. I had a 383 with a 230/244 cam and it made power everywhere. And pulled to 7800rpm. Not a typo. I have the dyno sheet, 447hp at the rear tires.
@@Turbogto_guy Yep. I run 234/244 with a blower.
The cure for the cam being to big is a stroker kit (408")😁👍
360hp on a stock cam 5.3 is very impressive……damn near big block numbers……gotta love the LS platform
Agree - 430hp with the 218 cam takes it to another level. Amazing power, considering the displacement. And 55 more horse power than the L78 BBC in my ‘68 Chevelle!
I’m a millennial with two built iron block LS running twin turbos on one and a big single on the other. The big turbo 5.3 I have is making a decent amount of Hp but it blows my mind the difference in power in comparison to the vehicles my grandpa had in his cars back in the day. He doesn’t believe me when I tell him that I’m making 700 Hp on my daily. Crazy how far motors have come from those old big blocks.
@@roelrodriguez5024 Let him drive it.
that is 55 more hp than the rated output of the l78-not the tested output
Here you go again 🤣. BBC ftw
The lesson? Tightened LSA will increase torque in the low and low midrange..while larger intake durations increase power output in the higher rpm ranges...
Spoiler?
With the same proper LSA for a specific engine, increased duration equals increased overlap, rougher idle and increased higher rpm power.
I’ve been running the Elgin 1838 (218 220) cam for a year in my turbo 5.3. It’s fine. Just add more boost lol. I have wondered how a bigger cam would feel since I have plenty of low speed power with my single s366.
I would go with the 218 cam. The top end power was less that 10hp with the biggest camshaft.
Would love to see some more cam comparisons for the idle-to-4500 rpm range. Not all of us are chasing mythical 7000 rpm numbers. LoL
WHEN ARE YOU AT WOT AT IDLE?
@@richardholdener1727 well, off idle.. towing. 5.3 LM7 swapped into Jeep. 4L60E with 4.10’s and 33’s. Powerband I seem to stay within is 1500-4500. Do a lot of pulls from 2,000-4,000 on the highway passing and hitting hills. Looking at building a new motor with a BTR Torque Cam, a TB SS intake, and maybe a few other little things. Just wondering how that would look like than whats happening at 6500 which I'll never see.
I'd love to see the Howard's 222/222 cam tested to see the difference between it and one like the Elgin 218/227. To see what the exhaust duration separation gaines or looses
a lot?
@@richardholdener1727 will you compare the comp 231-239 cam you love to use, against the btr ls2 stage 3 cam, 231-244 .. add in tsp cam 233-239 .. almost same grinds, different lifts, close to the same lsa.. What would be the best, where, why, etc..
That Truck Norris and it’s crazy numbers keeps calling my name, but I’m trying to convince myself I’ll be happy with the Best Cam. Justifying it by using a larger engine than most of these tests (L76) and a 3,000 stall converter in a 6l80 to mitigate bottom end losses. It’s just very hard to find info or reviews on the Best cam compared to the TN, even at this point almost a year later
that cam works well too-its bigger than the TN-so it makes more a little more peak power-less down low
@@richardholdener1727 thank you as always 🙏🏼 I’ll stick with the Best.
@UCAzrCu88xNhphvKn7UQZ1HQ Indeed, and I did purchase junk yard 706’s for this project- it’s the lifted Escalade on my channel. However once I got the 706’s and TBSS intake together I realized I’d have to change the entire fuel system because my vehicle uses a PWM pump while the TBSS intake and rails require a regulator and return. It wasn’t worth changing all of that over to gain 10 lbs down low- instead I put Summit pistons in it to raise the compression a little bit while reusing the original heads and intake to the vehicle to keep it simple. It’s a very heavy vehicle that does lots of slow, stressful driving off road and some towing through the Sierra Nevada’s. Like I mentioned above the converter and it being a 6L80 with short gears should negate the losses down low from not using a smaller cam like the Norris, but without going too big and making a high RPM screamer because that’s not quite what this truck does either. I’m hoping but not confident that the GT45 has enough in it to send 450 to the tires on 91, heavy as they are, but may wind up going with a 7875.. after doing tons of research I’ve convinced myself they don’t spoil THAT much slower
Richard, would you be so kind to add 3 cams the the test query? Elgin Sloppy Stage 3 and Carbed Single Plane (E-1841-P and E-1254-P) and Howards Cams Rattler Camshafts 198035-09? I've wondered how the narrow LSA would help the torque curve for 2 of them and I thought you would test the SS3 in this video. Thanks if you get a chance to test them. I'm sure others are wondering too.
That combo with gt500 blower .👌
If you gear a car accordingly you can stay in a hi tork curve at drivable street rpm. Say 2500 to 3500 rpm. Or the 5252 sweet spot.
Can you list the part numbers for the cams? 21832 is not bringing anything up
What about advancing the cam timing on bigger cams to get better low end power?
what's the part number of that 218 cam? no matter what I Google nothing comes up. thanks
I'm gonna guess the LS head flow characteristics allow them to get away with less intake duration by adding lift to make more powah everywhere. In other words the intake flow is fast enough it doesn't need so much duration.... Just more lift. (With obvious caveats)
Oh... and I can't wait to get my 6.0 with the SS2 cam and 4L80 finished and in my Crown Vic.
Is a GT45 too small a turbo for that combo? Should I be looking for a 78/75?
for 1000 hp? yes
@@hendo337 Thanks, man.
I'm probably going to stick with the 317's though.
600 to 700 horse torques is fine. I'm not trying to burn down a race track. That power level will make a more than fun street car.
Probably go with water/meth injection and flex fuel setup just to add some safety margin. I plan to daily this thing so I'll sacrifice some power for as much reliability as I can reasonably get.
Pick the right cam for your combination!!
6L next please. The one that's in escalades
Have u ever used the sloppy stage 3 I believe its a 238/242 585 lift
Test video about Elgin E-1838-P ?
Hey Richard , love the content and I have learned lots and realized what I thought I knew was just untested crap I heard from people who don’t know what they are talking about either ! Haha
Currently I am all over 8.1 l stuff because I run one in my welding truck for the torque output , and I am swapping one into my 91 suburban , are you going to do anymore videos on this motor by chance ? I am one of the other guys ! Lol
That section where camshafts is inserted looks like kylo ren's mask :D
I wish you would do tests like this on the 5.7 hemis both vvt and non vvt. there are a few cam manufacturers for these engines
The ol elbow torque wrench works great don't it .
😁
Have you done one of the new sloppy mechanics "best" cam???
that vid is up
Good thing the 5.3 is super cheap that’s the only reason I’ve used them in the past definitely needs some boost I do enjoy watching the test thank you as for the 5.3 not what I would choose unless I was on a budget then it is king
Hi aprox price for 5.3 in us ?
We need lots of them in sweden !!
@@melkerpersson3323 I've seen them for as low as $350
@@nickjurgle7131
Hi any idea were i can buy thoes ?
Will need 5 pce for a start
Melker
@@melkerpersson3323 we have salvage yards here called LKQ. They have a website. We also have Pick'n'Pull. That's where you can get them really cheap, but you have to pull them yourself.
Ok seems to be easy to buy 4.8l .ill check the market for that size in sweden.
Melker
When can we see some straight six engines? I’d love to see you do some work with the 300 ford
Would like to see some Howard’s grinds
Great videos Richard.. there very informative. I wonder what the outcome of all these cam tests would be if they were on a LS416 stroker engine. Would the torque and horsepower trade off start much higher RPM range. Would you need a much bigger cam before bottom end power starts trading off for top end power on a 416. You would think it’s relative. I guess I’m trying to say would there be a bigger hp increase using the same cam on a 416 after establishing the base numbers using a stock LS3 cam, then moving up to a bigger stick.
bigger gains on bigger motor compared to stock cam (but cam needs to be bigger too)
Hey Richard, how about a 2pc timing cover? I used one on my C5 because of the balancer not clearing the steering rack for cam swaps, was under $100 Jegs house brand. Worked well. Would be nice not to have to yank and crank that balancer over and over, no?
I was thinking the same thing, hopefully someone could donate one in the name of performance and hp research!
we have discussed that many times
@@richardholdener1727 discussed that you don't like it? Or discussed you wished someone would send one?
I run sloppy stg 2 cam in my carbed nitrous 5.3 I like it .but let's be honest here any decent cam from any company is a win im not picky they all work but I have watched every single video you have keep it up
Richard I’m gonna need to see a 5.3/6.0 with AFR heads and the BTR stage 1-4 NA LS1 cams (not the truck cams)
why that specific
@@richardholdener1727 just curious how much torque loss there is considering the specs on the stage 3 and 4 cams compared to milder set of cams that is, if there is even any torque loss in the middle of the rev range.
I really understood everything till the very end...mister BT how did he do it?
Hey Richard can you do a test putting solid lifters on a hydraulic cam? Or vise versa?
I surprised you don’t use the 2 piece front cover during these tests. Wouldn’t have to pull the balancer each time.
I have been waiting 3 years to see this. U were testing the SS2 and i recall asking if you’d tried the compared to summit 217/228. Today is that day just the Elgin version.
look closely at these specs and the GM lsx376
Actually the old cam robed the LS of 85hp.
Hi richard im new here is there such thing as putting a cam for more power on a stock motor and still be able to pass the california smog 🤔
you have to check with the manufacturers to see if they offer smog-legal cams
It's like motor shop class, great information as usual...love it. In the day we always did lifters with cam at the same time,? Seems like just cam you get excellent results? Also do you use a brake in lube, or do the cams come pre lubed?....always appreciate elaboraterations
ROLLERS LAST A LONG TIME-WE ALWAYS CHANGED LIFTERS TOO ON FLAT TAPPET STUFF
Waiting on testing on the truck norris in the ly6
Would love to see a tsp vvt1 cam vs truck norris
I know the tests are done at WOT.
What is the relationship if using part throttle at lower rpm’s?
I have rocks to crawl out here in Arizona…
Love the Squirrel guy. Btw.
😎
He did a test on this a few months ago
217* intake lobe on the 5.3 Hot Rod.
MY BAD-WAS THINKING 221 RED HOT
I'd be intrested to see a test including the howards rattler cam.
Yes would love to see the rattler also the thumper cams would be nice to see as well
@@hendo337 I must be another Jake with a rattler cam in a silverado lol
@@hendo337 no sir I have a 02 extended cab in silver birch. I'm 99% done putting it together.
@@hendo337 but I am also in Texas lol
The bat cave could use a floor repaint!
Great video
Hey richard can you please compare the new Comp HV cam to the other newer cams like Truck norris on the gen 4 4.8, 5.3 & 6.0's??? Part # 54-273-11 thx bud
Richard, I love your cam videos, they helped me choose the cam for my engine, (ss2) but have you ever tried using a program like desktop dyno to play with a camshaft profile before building an engine?
no sir-that info (informed specualtion) is not the same as actual dyno data
Elgin doesn't make camshafts. They are made by a company in Michigan, that makes mass produced cams for a bunch of different companies.vthe company even puts them in the Elgin boxes and ships them to the warehouses.
What company
@@DWBmotorsports Camshaft Machine Company in Michigan
@@MikeJones-zj5lj interesting. Elgin used to make their own cams for a very long time.
Right on
Thanks for your content!
Elgin power stoke is it good ?
I’d be curious to see the TN vs the new TSP chopacabra. Both .550/.550 lift but chop is a little bit more aggressive duration with same LSA. I’m between those two for my lq9 in an Escalade. Would be cool to see tn dethroned for converter “friendly” cams
YOU WILL BE HAPPY WITH EITHER ONE
Some cams can add about 150 hp to a fairly stock 350 sbc
You should compare a relatively mild sbc 350 to a mild 6liter ls just to see where in the power band they land. I just recently debated on putting an ls in an old Squarebody but did a sbc because I had all that junk laying around. I would like to see what I left on the table
A MILD 350 MAKES 300 HP, A MILD 6.0L MAKES 400 HP
Great info thanks for sharing
wish these tested on 6.0
my cam wont come out it looks like the third journal is not getting past the coller or baring at the front. any thoughts?
Can you do a cam motion junkyard dog cam on 5.3 ls cathedral port heads
Can you test the summit 8702 cam on a stock 6.0 I want to see how much power it’ll make
I think Ss3 is perfect on a 5.3
I would like to see a Data on the Howard rattler cam
How about howards rattler cam 525/525 with 275/282 duration?
Hey Richard, maybe I missed it but what was the part number for this Elgin "218 cam", is it 1251-p? One of their "black ice" camshafts?
i don't think it had a part number on it
@@richardholdener1727 Ah shucks, well thx for the quick reply. May your fridge never be empty of a cold one.
You have done it I’m sure
Lol,I just missed it
Would advancing the cam truly ring on the power band sooner ?
not always
Does hotrod cam sell more after this video???
So it comes down to price between SS2 and Elgin 218/228 cams
What about a l92 with sloppy stage 3
question is would it still pass emissions test
Some cams require more compression.
Now do the hotrod cam with boost
I didn't see the LSA on the HR cam. If it was wider wouldn't that explain the higher RPM HP?
113, I think?
so... which one makes the most average power?
I'm patiently waiting for a truck Norris for the gen V 5.3s.
THEY ALREADY HAVE A GREAT GEN V L83 CAM
@@richardholdener1727 I must have missed it, I'll have to look again.
Personally I blame squirrel.s
I blame squirrels that are personal friends with chipmunks and we know all about those guys
Damn dirty apes... squirrel apes.
This dude Is a nut 😄
What’s the part number for that 218 cam
Mas efficiency is max tork at the lowest rpm.
How would that small 218 cam work in a late model 6.0l in my van 🤔
Wondering if you had a chance to help me spec out an ebay turbo for my 3 cylinder Kubota 1.6L diesel 35 hp tractor. I would like to get to 40-45 hp. The power range is from 1500 to 2500 rpms. Thank you for the help.
Not sure why you can't graph with multiple colors anymore, but it would be nice if you could bring that back.
SINCE I MARK EACH GRAPH-IT'S PRETTY EASY TO DETERMINE WHICH IS WHICH-I CAN'T CONTROL THE PEOPLE WHO DESIGNED THE SOFTWARE PROGRAM
I'm so sorry. I can't keep up with is video. So you're saying that I should use a smaller cam, to get low power? This is a daily driver. I actually need out of the hole; or low end power. Can you please help me choose the proper cam? GMC Sierra, 4.8 daily driver. But I just want some more torque.
Replace valvesprings? 150000+miles. Thanks!
BTR TORQUE CAM
I am curious to try the same experience with nitrous witch one will make more power