I've got a 2016 1500, at 87k miles, and it just started slipping today. I am so heartsick. Can't afford this, worst possible time of year. Life goes on.
Thank you for explaining the torque converter failure. I learned more from you in 5 min than the last year of watching TH-cam videos about the 6l80 transmission, thank you again.
BS, the weld is not the problem man. The heat marks are from the manufacturing process and the fluid will keep surface temps pretty even. HERE IS THE REAL PROBLEM--The programming in the TCM / ECM commands torque converter apply in early gears and allows 20-40 rpm slippage. Actual slippage is much more. The torque converter never actually locks completely. It blows my mind why GM does this shit for smooth shifts and fuel mileage. It also blows my mind that people don't realize what's actually happening and why. HP tuners will fix this. Turn of DOD, and command less or no allowed slip. The torque converter is actually pretty good and has superior clutch material compared to standard lockup clutches.
I bought a tuner and immediately after applying a tune my transmission slipped even though it hadn't slipped at all before ? I put it back to factory tune and shortly after it started shuddering around 2,000 RPM 's It's still doing it but, I manually shift it and stay out of 6th gear. I watch the transmission temperature like a hawk and it's never gotten hot. 2013 Silverado 2500 HD 4x4 170,000 miles and I've done quite a bit of towing with it. Never driven hard just long distances towing.
It's a conspiracy! Shops don't Wana replace just the torque converter they always claim the transmission got "destroyed". I can testify to this, my 6l80 shuddered for couple thousand miles than stopped moving completely, never slipped or shifted hard, me and my brother replaced the torque converter, changed the oil and filter 2 times now it drives like a dream. The oil pan and magnet had flakes and metal dust, about a cupful.
I actually worked for a torque converter tier 1 supplier as a test engineer. Your component nomenclature of the Torque Converter is wrong. The base that attaches to the flex plate is the called the cover, and the opposite side is called the impeller/pump of the TC.
I'm a retired gm tech. I worked on hundreds of these 6L80 / 6L90 trans. Most common failure is the torque converter shelling out and pumping debris through the front pump. Never saw an issue with the 12345 R drum. Another issue was with valve body issues. Some could be cleaned and repaired. Others got a replacement valve body.
Performance transmision builders have been replacing these friction welded hubs for a long time, so it is not odd that they fail, but why suddenly with a new trans design? The same applies to torque converters which are not exactly new technology. Why the class action lawsuit against GM for selling 500,000 of these transmission over a decade when they KNEW it was defective? It is pretty hush'hush, but the only info I have read is that the valve body of parts therein disintegrates over time. Apparently enough time that GM was 'playing the odds'.
@michaelclark5385 Having had the opportunity to hear from engineers (like myself) who have an understanding of strength of materials and flexure failures, I have a much better understanding of why the torque converters self destruct. I also believe that I now understand why simple observation of a failed converter leads many to an inaccurate conclusion. So, without getting too far into the weeds, I will try to simplify a description of what happens inside the coverter that makes them fail. It is well known that a 'wave plate' is used inside the clutch drums to dampen the application of the clutch in order to create a smoother shift and to protect the friction plates from experiencong shock loads at the same time. There is a very large clutch inside the torque converter that has no such 'wave plate'. In order to provide a similar function, the entire full diameter friction plate is used, but the 'cushion effect' is provided by using a progressive application by intentionally forming the plate with a mismatched angle between the cover and the friction plate. The friction material therefore does not contact all at once, but makes conract initially only at the outer diameter. As the fluid 'apply' pressure rises, it deforms the plate forcing more and more of the friction material to make contact until (hopefully) the correct maximum pressure results in full contact between the friction plate and the portion of the cover that is actually used as the 'steel' in clutch hub parlance. I believe this 'solution' to cushioning the clutch apply is driven by cost and not good and sound engineering. That would explain the class action suit. The problem is a poor design. Inspecting numerous failures would certainly reveal that. The fluid problem has a different and mostly unrelated cause. The cause of the damage to the converter (and resulting circulation of clutch debris) is complicated, but suffice to say the neither the plate, nor the cover were made from adequate materials, protection from over pressurization of the plate could have EASILY been incorporated into the valve body to preve t deformation of the friction plate which is what caused the slipping, overheating and eventual destruction of the friction material. My solution would be to use the same material but thicker to produce the cover, and widen the steel blocks used for mounting and weld only on the edges and not the ends. Second, on the friction plate, mame the plate from a high carbon steel suitable for heat treating (spring steel) and form a wave into that plate where the friction material is attached and have the friction material meet the cover at the same angle so that flexure of the intentionally weak friction plate is NOT used to match the angles where the friction material meets the cover. The wave form built into the friction plate would provide the cushioning instead of relying on the plain steel plate to flex a precise amount. Overheating the mild steel friction plate would easily cause it to permanently deform causeing hash shifts and eventual destruction of the friction material. Overhearing this part combines with over presurizing the apply pressure is practically a guaranteed failure, so a pressure relief valve in the TCC apply circuit is a MUST, especially is a 'high performance' shift kit is installed that INCREASES the pressure. These changes would result in a significant increase in the cost of the converter. I apologize that this something of an oversimplification of what causes these factory converters to disassemble themselves, but it would take many pages and drawings and diagrams to really explain it fully. My advice at this time is to buy an aftermarket converter that used a Sonnax Billet cover and install a Sonnax kit that incorporates the pressure relief valve that I mentioned.
@michaelclark5385 slippage is a normal part of the operation but can be 'tuned' out in lower gears if you wish. The design of the torque converter, and particularly the materials used, is intollerant of the heat caused by the constant slippage. Below, I have written a description of why these converters self-destruct.
2018 was not the last year for the 6L90 , my 2019 Express 3500 has a 6L90. Wikipedia lists this transmission as 2010 to present in Express 2500 and 3500.
The main failure of a transmission is overheating. Put a transmission fix on the trans oil by installing a thermostat update kit from superior solutions.
No guarantees. I've serviced the fluid and filter, put in a shift solution kit and added an additional auxiliary transmission cooler. Mine still quit. They're shit converters. Made of cheap stamped steel with welded pads. They flex, warp, slip and chew themselves up and send it through the pump and the rest of the trans... mine still drives. (I'm not driving it however) so I hope it's not too late.
tell me about it dramatic failure is not the word for it. mine went so bad the entire driveline locked up almost like hitting the brakes, the dealership kept telling me it was fine its just the TCM needs a reflash lol yeah I said my transmission fluid smells burnt they said oh no its fine, I work at a shop I was well aware of what was going on, it was slipping hard shudders and super hard downshifts, this was just after purchasing the truck used from them a week and a half later, this transmission issue almost killed me I had a semi following just within a car length behind me, if I didn't react as fast as I did me and the truck would have been toast, safe to say exactly the issue you said in this video just more, since the vehicle was not covered on a warranty due to 241000 on the truck I only put 887 KM on that truck at that time, it cost $10,000 CAD for a replacement not a rebuild that came out of the US due to none available at that time in Canada they covered half cost and footed me with the rest so far 15000Km on the new transmission and well its starting to do some odd things yet again, one is a odd ticking sound in the bellhousing something I have never heard any of these 2014 to 2018 trucks make ever I have seen a few come and go still unable to diagnose or even find information on that! she has 4 years and 100k warranty on the replacement so I am not worried just mad that this is so common love the truck otherwise.
When you say ur driveline locked up, was it like as if the truck was just mashing the brakes to the floor with every downshift? Was it the torque converter causing that issue? My truck did that when i first got it tuned, it would downshift so hard, the tires would literally screech on the road. If there was a car behind me, they’d think i was brake checking them. Every downshift would push me into my steering wheel.
I have a 8L90 transmission in my 2018 Sierra 1500 and would like to know if that torque converter would work in my truck and if so, how can I get one. and also where are you located?
LOL if your transmission oil is black you know they have not serviced it as its supposed to be, they simply do the engine oil if that and run it down to the ground basically especially the trucks ,they work them very hard and always never ever make sure if towing that the transmission has a real good external trans cooler and if its in hot humid weather ,then get a trans cooler with a fan on it which is connected to a electronic switch to turn on if the trans fluid reaches more than say 85 degrees or better still make sure you have a control temp valve built in the trans cooler so it allows the oil to pass through at the spec temps and also a temp sensor as part of the cooler and pressure sensors as well, well worth it in the end, but heres the thing most owners do not care they simply run into the ground and then just upgrade and i feel sorry for those 2nd hand buyers who do not do their research on the real history of the truck they are buying?
I have a 2015 Z71 Silverado 6-speed transmission, I get the Chevy Shake on the highway, I have had the trans checked and they said there was no metal shavings on the magnet, so then I had the tires and wheels done, then the U-Joints, then the CV axles done, then the bearings and bushings in the differential. Still shakes, i keep seeing the driveshaft or torque converter failure is what people say.
Thank you, I have a 2015 Silverado 6L80 with all the vibration issues you speak about in your video, the thank you is for the detailed explanation you gave us and the actual torque converter split in half, great job & great video.
Aluminum stops the filter up. The trans is fine. Flush the trans fluid. Replace the filter then do it once more in 1000 miles. I did and now no more aluminum is getting in my filter. My trans was never rebuilt. Im also a trans specialist. Ive built too many too count.
My 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 HD 6-speed 5.3Ltr Transmission just crashed at 125,000.00 miles. New one cost 4,000.00. Damn On the bright side I have a bad ass truck with a new transmission.😮😅
I had to have my transmission rebuilt on a 2015 GMC 1500 at 136,000 miles. It still slips slightly, I removed just over a quart of fluid which improved that issue.. When I took it back, the shop told me that the fluid level was fine and that nothing was wrong. I also asked about that super solutions temperature gauge and the shop said that wouldn't make a difference. I live in Vegas and the temperature runs at an average of 189 degrees. I've got just over 7000 miles on it. It only slips slightly on slow speeds, generally in the morning. I've got a 2 year, 24,000 mile warranty and I think it's probably going to fail again, further down the road. When I jump on it, it performs just fine.
I own a 2016 Chevy Silverado. The easiest way to fix the piece of crap transmission is to not buy one in the first place, It had been serviced and still went out at 116000 miles.
GM should put them billets in all their torque Converters and illuminate the thermostat. In All there transmission That's a big joke. That's where all the heat's coming from. The money these people pay for these vehicles. Today is a no-brainer, should have good parts.
was that a "B" case 727 with a Overdrive extension housing? I have heard of such a Dodge/ Plymouth 727, but never seen one! what's this guy doing with one?
Had to replace my transmission on my 2015 Tahoe at 103K. Luckily, I purchased an extended warranty, and the new transmission was covered. I have since moved on from Chevy/GM vehicles....too many issues
2017 Chevy Tahoe LS. Have to rev it to about 2k RPM to get it to go into drive. Once it goes into drive, it will shift perfectly. Fuild is red, no leaking and no burning smell. Any advice?
Do you really think GM does not know about welding metals and making sure that when the welds are completed for the bolts holes to be set for putting the flywheel to the convertor, that the convertor is going to be straight or round as possible, also you do not show if its a genuine GM convertor, which means that almost every single GM 6L80E or 6L90E auto trans out there will have the same problems or maybe its just the luck of the draw you either got a convertor which is not round enough inside it and thus have problems or you have one which is ok ,so what your saying is replace the convertor when you get a auto serviced and thus get rid of the most common problems with these autos? Plus i think its more with trucks due to towing etc, so much heat is generated and pressure friction basically is the enemy of any mechanical engine reduce the friction as much as possible with all things being equal, then you should be ok etc? Plus have a trans pressure and temp gauge and especially a fan controlled external trans cooler and you will save so much issues later down the track?
I have the opportunity to buy a 14 low miles with a busted transmission , is there a company or beefier transmission that other folk have used ? Not a Chevy guy myself
if you want more people to come in to your shop that watch from TH-cam, you should give a price range on what it would cost that way people have an idea. Who knows your prices could be way higher than anybody's out there.
I have a 19 GMC Sierra limited with a 6 speed transmission. It failed at 36k. They replaced torque converter and rebuilt transmission. 6 months later, same problem. Dealer puts refurbished transmission- truck is in shop for a month. 2 months later the refurbished transmission has szme problem. They say it’s a valve body issue; in the shop for 2 weeks. They replaced valve body but dealer says the transmission is still not functioning properly. No word yet on the repair or when I get the truck back. Besides telling me to get rid of the truck; has anyone managed to get the dealer/gmc to buyback their truck? Thanks
I have a 2017 Silverado with the 6L 80 transmission. 215,000 miles with probably 20,000 towing a trailer. I change the fluid every 30,000 miles with a complete flush. Should I just swap out the torque converter now while I have no issues or continue to change the fluid regularly and also put in that new lower temperature thermostat? Any helpful Guidance in this area would be extremely appreciate. Thanks!. Kerry
Hi sorry for the late reply. Also it appears im responding from my personal account but oh well. I don't recommend fixing anything that doesn't require it. I've seen plenty of these units go high mileage. When the time comes with high mileage units as yours is you want to be addressing more than just the torque converter.
could you tell me the replacement number for the billet converter for a 2017 6l80/6l90 Chevy Silverado, please? I'm from Ca.I don't know where you are at
Great video.. However, you did not discuss what the REAL failure reason is.. I can make a factory GM converter-without a billet base-just a straight up factory GM torque converter last 300,000 miles... I'm a transmission builder out of Houston, TX... You talk about the failures within the converter, and you are half right about why they are coming apart... However, your "billet base" fix is just a temporary solution and you are not addressing the real problem. I can make a factory Gm converter outlast your Precision 4645HD billet base converter.... Running the Precision billet base converters is just a band aid... Essentially you will STILL have the same failure as the factory converters suffer, but the difference is it will be much further down the line than the factory converters typically fail at. We see, on average, that the GM converters are failing between 80-120,000 miles. Obviously some go further, but these are the averages.. Your billet base converter is going to last, on average, into the 200+/-K mile range (on top of the mileage that was on the vehicle before rebuild or installation of the Precision billet base converter).. We know this because we used to run those converters with fleet customers who put that kind of mileage on vehicles in under 5 years... We learned a lot from that experience, and we learned to fix it RIGHT.. the converter is not the answer my friend... We now have factory GM converters that are into the 300+K mileage range without failure... It can be done. For those of you looking for a ROCK SOLID GM 6 Speed rebuild, here in the US, specifically Houston, TX, reach out to me... We can show your transmission the heavenly light of longevity. If you have a factory unit that has less than 80K miles on it and want to put the fix in place before converter failure-we can help you with that! Or, if you have had your trans rebuilt elsewhere and want to avoid another torque converter failure... hit me up!
@@devopstech7054 So what you are saying is.... I've done EXACTLY the same thing as this video-claim that I can fix it, and yet shared none of the pertinent details. Man, you are SHARP! Industry knowledge that came to me at a price well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and over 20 years of investment of my personal time to achieve this level.... why would I not just GIVE IT ALL UP for free! I like your idea, but I also have kids to put through college, and bills to pay, and staff to take care of... But I really like your "give it away" mentality... Tell you what, bring your GM 6 speed equipped vehicle to my shop, pay for the "fix" and I'll allow you to watch what we do, exactly as we do it... I think that is MORE than fair. Until that time, you are just a panhandler asking for something for free, with nothing to offer in exchange, and I'm not in a "give it away" mood. I'll tell you this-we machine parts in-house to address issues within the transmission. Even if you watched us work, you still would not be able to replicate what we do unless you have access to lathes, and mills, and know what parts and pieces need the work. So.. maybe that is a more helpful answer? We CAN make your factory GM torque converter last in excess of 300,000 miles and we offer a warranty to that effect! Hah! Our standard warranty on rebuilt 6 speeds is 5 year, 100,000 miles for $3250-tax included-and that includes installation, programming, fluid, labor, ALL OF IT. Our LIFETIME warranty is $4150 and essentially there is no mileage, or time, limitations... Find me another transmission shop ANYWHERE in the nation who is standing behind their work, and their word, like that... If I decide to give away our trade secrets at some point in the future, you can bet you will be the first to know! In fact, I'll make a video, and link you to it! Until then..
@@Go69 never said to “give it all up”, I specially mentioned a clue. Are people just supposed to take you for your word ? Are you a mechanic or a politician lol ? I don’t want to ascribe anything onto you what you are saying, I want to see a plausible path to the “actual fix” you allude to. I’m also not that mechanically inclined to take a “clue” reverse engineer your process and apply to my own transmission, come to think of it, who is ?
@@devopstech7054 "Taking my word for it"... People drop off their cars at my shop every single day-people that I have never met before by the way, complete strangers-to have their transmissions rebuilt, or repaired. So... Are those people "taking my word for it"? I don't know them, I have not met them before speaking to them on the phone... or sometimes they will just show up and hand me their keys and say "fix it". Yes, people trust me. Yes my reviews reflect that I can be trusted. I'm neither a "mechanic" nor a "politician", I'm a transmission engineer. If you want to see a plausible path to a fix-drop your vehicle off, or hang around and watch, and you won't need us to hold your hands and walk you through the process-you can watch, or not, and the end result will be a fixed vehicle, with a substantial warranty. It IS that simple.. If I want a steak I don't go to the butcher and ask to watch while he slaughters the cow-I just buy the steak. Unless people just WANT to make it more complicated???? I'm all about easy. I have spent considerable time making it "easy" to fix these units. It was not an easy road, and I have no shame in accepting compensation for my efforts. Since you asked for a "clue", I'll give you what you want-without the semantics-we take a 3 pronged approach that includes a boxed shift correction package, our own in-house solution to temperature regulation to include machined parts on the valve body, and elsewhere, and we edit and correct the transmission control algorithm. See how easy that is?
I have an intermittent shudders and vibrations when drive 50 mph+ in D mode only . When I select 5 or 6 shift everything becomes normal. Could HP tuners fix this problem ? 2011 chevrolet camaro ss.
All transmissions its about friction reduce friction and servicing at regular intervals and depending on how the truck or car is driven as well, temperature and friction is the emery of all mechanical items engines, transmissions differentials etc? Unless there's a factory fault not known at the time when the each items were made for the engine, transmission o diff, just a faction out of spec in one of the parts and before you know it you have a failure issues?
I have a question my transmission already fail but i dont know if to take it to the dealer and fix it or just to regular guy they fix transmission is it the quality that they put in i need advise
These were not the best transmissions nor were they the worst. The guy mentions at the beginning of the video about the smell of the fluid. Never changing the fluid is the demise of any automatic transmission. Same with never changing power steering fluid. Rack and pinion steering units are sensitive to dirty fluid.
I’m looking at an 08 2500hd guy says transmission is stuck in 5th gear what’s the cause an fix to this problem does the transmission need to be rebuilt
My 2017 chevy silverado transmission failed at 100,660 miles. I don't pull anything. It is my daily driver. Won't go into drive at all. Aamco transmission shop said it needs a total rebuild at the cost of $4200. GM hotline gave me the runaround so decided to take it to Aamco Trans specialists instead of the dealership. Dealership was more. My 2000 chevy silverado reverse went out at 260,000 mile. $2000 total rebuild. Been a chevy guy for 47 years but I am Not happy with their quality anymore.
I have a 2015 2500hd and the transmission overheats. I don’t have a cooler bypass like a lot of these transmissions have. Is there still an upgrade I can do to get it to run cooler? When it is hot I touch the exterior cooler and it is ice cold. Please help. Thanks
The description of the drum failure could be based on fact. However, most of what was said about the torque converter is inaccurate. 1) 'metal' does not automatically harden from being heated. 'Steel', which is what torque converter s are made from, does not harden unless it has a high carbon content. Steel with a high carbon content is not suitable for deep stamping. In fact, only high quality sheet stock is suitable for stamping 2) Using vague terms like 'failure rate' with no actual facts is equivalent to marketing, which is another word for propaganda. Failure rate of 5 in 1,000 may be 'improved' to 4.7 in 1,000 but that is still an unacceptable rate. So, what is the failure rate of the factory torque converters? What is the rate of your soultion? To just say 'improved' is pathetic, frankly. Explain why suddenly a specific torque converter has a mysterious failure when these parts have been mass produced by US car makers since 1952. Using welded steel blocks as mounting points is used on huge diesel engines, so your claim that this is the 'failure point' lacks any credibility at all, particularly since the blocks are not tearing loose and leaving cracks or holes, and the entire torque converter body is a weldment with a 360 degree radial weld on the diameter of the stamping. You will need to do a lot better than this to make your case, especially since the only 'boogie man' the manufacturer has come up with is improperly formulated fluid.
I noticed that you're ñocated in Canada, it's a stretch to get out there, I live in Texas, any shops in the US, you gave me hope, I have experienced a shudder when I start going over a slight hill and at times on level surface, we put the computer on and nothing shows up other then a coil pack that was misfiring, corrected that and replaced all the spark plugs and wires, new struts, rear shocks, not what else it could be but in the transmission and possibly the Torque Converter like you broke down, how can I get my hands on one the Billet Torque Converter to have installed in the transmission, do you sell them to individuals or shop, Thank you, Awesome JOB breaking it down
I've got a 2016 1500, at 87k miles, and it just started slipping today. I am so heartsick. Can't afford this, worst possible time of year. Life goes on.
Hows it holding up
Bro,I have a 17 sierra,& same shi happening..Im just gonna grab a new updated tranny..
Add fluid
I feel ya man, just bought a 15' with 87k. Private seller, paid cash. Two days later lost the trans 😢
Same thing 2015 Chevy Silverado lt. just hit 80 k maintenance on point.
Thank you for explaining the torque converter failure. I learned more from you in 5 min than the last year of watching TH-cam videos about the 6l80 transmission, thank you again.
Yes, he had a very clear method of explaining the problem. It was very effective.
There was nothing to learn from this video. The 'explanation' given was marketing, nothing more.
BS, the weld is not the problem man. The heat marks are from the manufacturing process and the fluid will keep surface temps pretty even. HERE IS THE REAL PROBLEM--The programming in the TCM / ECM commands torque converter apply in early gears and allows 20-40 rpm slippage. Actual slippage is much more. The torque converter never actually locks completely. It blows my mind why GM does this shit for smooth shifts and fuel mileage. It also blows my mind that people don't realize what's actually happening and why. HP tuners will fix this. Turn of DOD, and command less or no allowed slip. The torque converter is actually pretty good and has superior clutch material compared to standard lockup clutches.
They're shit converters. They warp and flex.
I bought a tuner and immediately after applying a tune my transmission slipped even though it hadn't slipped at all before ?
I put it back to factory tune and shortly after it started shuddering around 2,000 RPM 's
It's still doing it but, I manually shift it and stay out of 6th gear. I watch the transmission temperature like a hawk and it's never gotten hot.
2013 Silverado 2500 HD 4x4 170,000 miles and I've done quite a bit of towing with it. Never driven hard just long distances towing.
I am the senate on here
how is this not a recall? crazy thanks for the info.
It's a conspiracy! Shops don't Wana replace just the torque converter they always claim the transmission got "destroyed". I can testify to this, my 6l80 shuddered for couple thousand miles than stopped moving completely, never slipped or shifted hard, me and my brother replaced the torque converter, changed the oil and filter 2 times now it drives like a dream. The oil pan and magnet had flakes and metal dust, about a cupful.
I actually worked for a torque converter tier 1 supplier as a test engineer. Your component nomenclature of the Torque Converter is wrong. The base that attaches to the flex plate is the called the cover, and the opposite side is called the impeller/pump of the TC.
I'm a retired gm tech. I worked on hundreds of these 6L80 / 6L90 trans. Most common failure is the torque converter shelling out and pumping debris through the front pump. Never saw an issue with the 12345 R drum.
Another issue was with valve body issues.
Some could be cleaned and repaired. Others got a replacement valve body.
Performance transmision builders have been replacing these friction welded hubs for a long time, so it is not odd that they fail, but why suddenly with a new trans design? The same applies to torque converters which are not exactly new technology.
Why the class action lawsuit against GM for selling 500,000 of these transmission over a decade when they KNEW it was defective?
It is pretty hush'hush, but the only info I have read is that the valve body of parts therein disintegrates over time. Apparently enough time that GM was 'playing the odds'.
What about tune the tcm to lock up in lower gears
Or is constant slippage till 5th gear okay?
@michaelclark5385 Having had the opportunity to hear from engineers (like myself) who have an understanding of strength of materials and flexure failures, I have a much better understanding of why the torque converters self destruct. I also believe that I now understand why simple observation of a failed converter leads many to an inaccurate conclusion.
So, without getting too far into the weeds, I will try to simplify a description of what happens inside the coverter that makes them fail.
It is well known that a 'wave plate' is used inside the clutch drums to dampen the application of the clutch in order to create a smoother shift and to protect the friction plates from experiencong shock loads at the same time.
There is a very large clutch inside the torque converter that has no such 'wave plate'. In order to provide a similar function, the entire full diameter friction plate is used, but the 'cushion effect' is provided by using a progressive application by intentionally forming the plate with a mismatched angle between the cover and the friction plate.
The friction material therefore does not contact all at once, but makes conract initially only at the outer diameter. As the fluid 'apply' pressure rises, it deforms the plate forcing more and more of the friction material to make contact until (hopefully) the correct maximum pressure results in full contact between the friction plate and the portion of the cover that is actually used as the 'steel' in clutch hub parlance.
I believe this 'solution' to cushioning the clutch apply is driven by cost and not good and sound engineering. That would explain the class action suit. The problem is a poor design. Inspecting numerous failures would certainly reveal that.
The fluid problem has a different and mostly unrelated cause.
The cause of the damage to the converter (and resulting circulation of clutch debris) is complicated, but suffice to say the neither the plate, nor the cover were made from adequate materials, protection from over pressurization of the plate could have EASILY been incorporated into the valve body to preve t deformation of the friction plate which is what caused the slipping, overheating and eventual destruction of the friction material.
My solution would be to use the same material but thicker to produce the cover, and widen the steel blocks used for mounting and weld only on the edges and not the ends.
Second, on the friction plate, mame the plate from a high carbon steel suitable for heat treating (spring steel) and form a wave into that plate where the friction material is attached and have the friction material meet the cover at the same angle so that flexure of the intentionally weak friction plate is NOT used to match the angles where the friction material meets the cover.
The wave form built into the friction plate would provide the cushioning instead of relying on the plain steel plate to flex a precise amount.
Overheating the mild steel friction plate would easily cause it to permanently deform causeing hash shifts and eventual destruction of the friction material.
Overhearing this part combines with over presurizing the apply pressure is practically a guaranteed failure, so a pressure relief valve in the TCC apply circuit is a MUST, especially is a 'high performance' shift kit is installed that INCREASES the pressure.
These changes would result in a significant increase in the cost of the converter.
I apologize that this something of an oversimplification of what causes these factory converters to disassemble themselves, but it would take many pages and drawings and diagrams to really explain it fully.
My advice at this time is to buy an aftermarket converter that used a Sonnax Billet cover and install a Sonnax kit that incorporates the pressure relief valve that I mentioned.
@michaelclark5385 slippage is a normal part of the operation but can be 'tuned' out in lower gears if you wish.
The design of the torque converter, and particularly the materials used, is intollerant of the heat caused by the constant slippage.
Below, I have written a description of why these converters self-destruct.
GM has become a crap company, engine failure, transmission failure...In fact, all usa made car/truck are now crap
2018 was not the last year for the 6L90 , my 2019 Express 3500 has a 6L90. Wikipedia lists this transmission as 2010 to present in Express 2500 and 3500.
The main failure of a transmission is overheating. Put a transmission fix on the trans oil by installing a thermostat update kit from superior solutions.
Thanks! Kerry
No guarantees. I've serviced the fluid and filter, put in a shift solution kit and added an additional auxiliary transmission cooler. Mine still quit. They're shit converters. Made of cheap stamped steel with welded pads. They flex, warp, slip and chew themselves up and send it through the pump and the rest of the trans... mine still drives. (I'm not driving it however) so I hope it's not too late.
tell me about it dramatic failure is not the word for it. mine went so bad the entire driveline locked up almost like hitting the brakes, the dealership kept telling me it was fine its just the TCM needs a reflash lol yeah I said my transmission fluid smells burnt they said oh no its fine, I work at a shop I was well aware of what was going on, it was slipping hard shudders and super hard downshifts, this was just after purchasing the truck used from them a week and a half later, this transmission issue almost killed me I had a semi following just within a car length behind me, if I didn't react as fast as I did me and the truck would have been toast, safe to say exactly the issue you said in this video just more, since the vehicle was not covered on a warranty due to 241000 on the truck I only put 887 KM on that truck at that time, it cost $10,000 CAD for a replacement not a rebuild that came out of the US due to none available at that time in Canada they covered half cost and footed me with the rest so far 15000Km on the new transmission and well its starting to do some odd things yet again, one is a odd ticking sound in the bellhousing something I have never heard any of these 2014 to 2018 trucks make ever I have seen a few come and go still unable to diagnose or even find information on that! she has 4 years and 100k warranty on the replacement so I am not worried just mad that this is so common love the truck otherwise.
When you say ur driveline locked up, was it like as if the truck was just mashing the brakes to the floor with every downshift? Was it the torque converter causing that issue?
My truck did that when i first got it tuned, it would downshift so hard, the tires would literally screech on the road. If there was a car behind me, they’d think i was brake checking them. Every downshift would push me into my steering wheel.
My 2015 Silverado has been parked for almost a year because of the faulty transmission. Waiting for the courts to order GM to fix.
I have a 8L90 transmission in my 2018 Sierra 1500 and would like to know if that torque converter would work in my truck and if so,
how can I get one. and also where are you located?
LOL if your transmission oil is black you know they have not serviced it as its supposed to be, they simply do the engine oil if that and run it down to the ground basically especially the trucks ,they work them very hard and always never ever make sure if towing that the transmission has a real good external trans cooler and if its in hot humid weather ,then get a trans cooler with a fan on it which is connected to a electronic switch to turn on if the trans fluid reaches more than say 85 degrees or better still make sure you have a control temp valve built in the trans cooler so it allows the oil to pass through at the spec temps and also a temp sensor as part of the cooler and pressure sensors as well, well worth it in the end, but heres the thing most owners do not care they simply run into the ground and then just upgrade and i feel sorry for those 2nd hand buyers who do not do their research on the real history of the truck they are buying?
2019 8L90e is the same problem, mine started under 80k miles, dealer can’t even get a replacement transmission and it’s been nearly 2 months!
Sooo.. what youre saying is... we're fucked and need a lot of money to fix it..😂😂😂😂. I rather get that thing running just enough to trade it in.
This is the best explanation of this I have seen. I live in northeast BC and I’ll be talking to you guys when it’s time to do my Transmission!
I have a 2015 Z71 Silverado 6-speed transmission, I get the Chevy Shake on the highway, I have had the trans checked and they said there was no metal shavings on the magnet, so then I had the tires and wheels done, then the U-Joints, then the CV axles done, then the bearings and bushings in the differential. Still shakes, i keep seeing the driveshaft or torque converter failure is what people say.
Thank you, I have a 2015 Silverado 6L80 with all the vibration issues you speak about in your video, the thank you is for the detailed explanation you gave us and the actual torque converter split in half, great job & great video.
Aluminum stops the filter up. The trans is fine. Flush the trans fluid. Replace the filter then do it once more in 1000 miles. I did and now no more aluminum is getting in my filter. My trans was never rebuilt. Im also a trans specialist. Ive built too many too count.
Sorry, that’s 115,000 miles not 215,000! Thanks again, Kerry.
My 2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 HD
6-speed 5.3Ltr Transmission just crashed at 125,000.00 miles. New one cost 4,000.00. Damn
On the bright side I have a bad ass truck with a new transmission.😮😅
I had to have my transmission rebuilt on a 2015 GMC 1500 at 136,000 miles. It still slips slightly, I removed just over a quart of fluid which improved that issue.. When I took it back, the shop told me that the fluid level was fine and that nothing was wrong. I also asked about that super solutions temperature gauge and the shop said that wouldn't make a difference. I live in Vegas and the temperature runs at an average of 189 degrees. I've got just over 7000 miles on it. It only slips slightly on slow speeds, generally in the morning. I've got a 2 year, 24,000 mile warranty and I think it's probably going to fail again, further down the road. When I jump on it, it performs just fine.
Find a person who can change the program in the TCM
@@drloch6174 I'll give it a shot, thanks
I own a 2016 Chevy Silverado. The easiest way to fix the piece of crap transmission is to not buy one in the first place, It had been serviced and still went out at 116000 miles.
Bought a truck with 110k miles, would a zl1 converter and the thermostat keep her alive for another 60k or so?
You literally didn't state one "symptom." Just some flaws with the transmission.
Do you have a solution for the GM 8 speeds ?
My 2017 Chevy won’t go into drive any recommendations???
Mechanic wants 4600
Go get your oem rebuilt and they will install as well and put a 40k cooler
GM should put them billets in all their torque Converters and illuminate the thermostat. In All there transmission That's a big joke. That's where all the heat's coming from. The money these people pay for these vehicles. Today is a no-brainer, should have good parts.
was that a "B" case 727 with a Overdrive extension housing? I have heard of such a Dodge/ Plymouth 727, but never seen one! what's this guy doing with one?
What would cause a 6l90 to completely locked up . Even in neutral the truck won’t go forward or backward
Had to replace my transmission on my 2015 Tahoe at 103K. Luckily, I purchased an extended warranty, and the new transmission was covered. I have since moved on from Chevy/GM vehicles....too many issues
2017 Chevy Tahoe LS. Have to rev it to about 2k RPM to get it to go into drive. Once it goes into drive, it will shift perfectly. Fuild is red, no leaking and no burning smell. Any advice?
Do you really think GM does not know about welding metals and making sure that when the welds are completed for the bolts holes to be set for putting the flywheel to the convertor, that the convertor is going to be straight or round as possible, also you do not show if its a genuine GM convertor, which means that almost every single GM 6L80E or 6L90E auto trans out there will have the same problems or maybe its just the luck of the draw you either got a convertor which is not round enough inside it and thus have problems or you have one which is ok ,so what your saying is replace the convertor when you get a auto serviced and thus get rid of the most common problems with these autos?
Plus i think its more with trucks due to towing etc, so much heat is generated and pressure friction basically is the enemy of any mechanical engine reduce the friction as much as possible with all things being equal, then you should be ok etc?
Plus have a trans pressure and temp gauge and especially a fan controlled external trans cooler and you will save so much issues later down the track?
I have the opportunity to buy a 14 low miles with a busted transmission , is there a company or beefier transmission that other folk have used ? Not a Chevy guy myself
The exhaust running under the transmission makes it hot also
if you want more people to come in to your shop that watch from TH-cam, you should give a price range on what it would cost that way people have an idea. Who knows your prices could be way higher than anybody's out there.
Where are you located?
This is another reason folks are buying Toyota trucks.
I have a 19 GMC Sierra limited with a 6 speed transmission. It failed at 36k. They replaced torque converter and rebuilt transmission. 6 months later, same problem. Dealer puts refurbished transmission- truck is in shop for a month. 2 months later the refurbished transmission has szme problem. They say it’s a valve body issue; in the shop for 2 weeks. They replaced valve body but dealer says the transmission is still not functioning properly. No word yet on the repair or when I get the truck back.
Besides telling me to get rid of the truck; has anyone managed to get the dealer/gmc to buyback their truck? Thanks
the problems are the computers and solenoids, go back to basics....problems solved..keep it simple !!
I have a 2017 Silverado with the 6L 80 transmission. 215,000 miles with probably 20,000 towing a trailer. I change the fluid every 30,000 miles with a complete flush. Should I just swap out the torque converter now while I have no issues or continue to change the fluid regularly and also put in that new lower temperature thermostat? Any helpful Guidance in this area would be extremely appreciate. Thanks!. Kerry
ff
Hi sorry for the late reply. Also it appears im responding from my personal account but oh well. I don't recommend fixing anything that doesn't require it. I've seen plenty of these units go high mileage. When the time comes with high mileage units as yours is you want to be addressing more than just the torque converter.
@@arashahmar9073 damn took u so long to reply hahaha
Changing fluid every 30,000 miles is why it still works at 215,000 miles.
Sure Cool part #STL010. highly recommended. Factory 180 degree TOO HIGH
I see for 2023 all the HD trucks even gassers are getting Allisons now. I think GM has given up on the failure prone 6L90's.
could you tell me the replacement number for the billet converter for a 2017 6l80/6l90 Chevy Silverado, please? I'm from Ca.I don't know where you are at
Everything billet that’s what’s in mine now
Gonna need your list now my guy🤌
GMC 2016 5.3 L 93,000 miles just started shuddering this week…
would you advise to get that mod thermostate that everyone is talking about, i have escalade 2017
Strongly recommend.... part #STL010
Do you have any shop you can recommend in South Florida
3/10/24
Great video.. However, you did not discuss what the REAL failure reason is.. I can make a factory GM converter-without a billet base-just a straight up factory GM torque converter last 300,000 miles... I'm a transmission builder out of Houston, TX... You talk about the failures within the converter, and you are half right about why they are coming apart... However, your "billet base" fix is just a temporary solution and you are not addressing the real problem. I can make a factory Gm converter outlast your Precision 4645HD billet base converter.... Running the Precision billet base converters is just a band aid... Essentially you will STILL have the same failure as the factory converters suffer, but the difference is it will be much further down the line than the factory converters typically fail at. We see, on average, that the GM converters are failing between 80-120,000 miles. Obviously some go further, but these are the averages.. Your billet base converter is going to last, on average, into the 200+/-K mile range (on top of the mileage that was on the vehicle before rebuild or installation of the Precision billet base converter).. We know this because we used to run those converters with fleet customers who put that kind of mileage on vehicles in under 5 years... We learned a lot from that experience, and we learned to fix it RIGHT.. the converter is not the answer my friend... We now have factory GM converters that are into the 300+K mileage range without failure... It can be done. For those of you looking for a ROCK SOLID GM 6 Speed rebuild, here in the US, specifically Houston, TX, reach out to me... We can show your transmission the heavenly light of longevity. If you have a factory unit that has less than 80K miles on it and want to put the fix in place before converter failure-we can help you with that! Or, if you have had your trans rebuilt elsewhere and want to avoid another torque converter failure... hit me up!
You are just advertising without even giving a clue to why it fails.
@@devopstech7054 So what you are saying is.... I've done EXACTLY the same thing as this video-claim that I can fix it, and yet shared none of the pertinent details. Man, you are SHARP! Industry knowledge that came to me at a price well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and over 20 years of investment of my personal time to achieve this level.... why would I not just GIVE IT ALL UP for free! I like your idea, but I also have kids to put through college, and bills to pay, and staff to take care of... But I really like your "give it away" mentality... Tell you what, bring your GM 6 speed equipped vehicle to my shop, pay for the "fix" and I'll allow you to watch what we do, exactly as we do it... I think that is MORE than fair. Until that time, you are just a panhandler asking for something for free, with nothing to offer in exchange, and I'm not in a "give it away" mood. I'll tell you this-we machine parts in-house to address issues within the transmission. Even if you watched us work, you still would not be able to replicate what we do unless you have access to lathes, and mills, and know what parts and pieces need the work. So.. maybe that is a more helpful answer? We CAN make your factory GM torque converter last in excess of 300,000 miles and we offer a warranty to that effect! Hah! Our standard warranty on rebuilt 6 speeds is 5 year, 100,000 miles for $3250-tax included-and that includes installation, programming, fluid, labor, ALL OF IT. Our LIFETIME warranty is $4150 and essentially there is no mileage, or time, limitations... Find me another transmission shop ANYWHERE in the nation who is standing behind their work, and their word, like that... If I decide to give away our trade secrets at some point in the future, you can bet you will be the first to know! In fact, I'll make a video, and link you to it! Until then..
Contact info?
Houston is closer than Canada.
@@Go69 never said to “give it all up”, I specially mentioned a clue. Are people just supposed to take you for your word ? Are you a mechanic or a politician lol ? I don’t want to ascribe anything onto you what you are saying, I want to see a plausible path to the “actual fix” you allude to. I’m also not that mechanically inclined to take a “clue” reverse engineer your process and apply to my own transmission, come to think of it, who is ?
@@devopstech7054 "Taking my word for it"... People drop off their cars at my shop every single day-people that I have never met before by the way, complete strangers-to have their transmissions rebuilt, or repaired. So... Are those people "taking my word for it"? I don't know them, I have not met them before speaking to them on the phone... or sometimes they will just show up and hand me their keys and say "fix it". Yes, people trust me. Yes my reviews reflect that I can be trusted. I'm neither a "mechanic" nor a "politician", I'm a transmission engineer. If you want to see a plausible path to a fix-drop your vehicle off, or hang around and watch, and you won't need us to hold your hands and walk you through the process-you can watch, or not, and the end result will be a fixed vehicle, with a substantial warranty. It IS that simple.. If I want a steak I don't go to the butcher and ask to watch while he slaughters the cow-I just buy the steak. Unless people just WANT to make it more complicated???? I'm all about easy. I have spent considerable time making it "easy" to fix these units. It was not an easy road, and I have no shame in accepting compensation for my efforts. Since you asked for a "clue", I'll give you what you want-without the semantics-we take a 3 pronged approach that includes a boxed shift correction package, our own in-house solution to temperature regulation to include machined parts on the valve body, and elsewhere, and we edit and correct the transmission control algorithm. See how easy that is?
Gm transmissions fail as if on a timer - actually a warning timer that make their models show up at the used car lot.
I have an intermittent shudders and vibrations when drive 50 mph+ in D mode only . When I select 5 or 6 shift everything becomes normal. Could HP tuners fix this problem ? 2011 chevrolet camaro ss.
yes, a good programmer can fix the shutter
All transmissions its about friction reduce friction and servicing at regular intervals and depending on how the truck or car is driven as well, temperature and friction is the emery of all mechanical items engines, transmissions differentials etc?
Unless there's a factory fault not known at the time when the each items were made for the engine, transmission o diff, just a faction out of spec in one of the parts and before you know it you have a failure issues?
Hello I can order a converter for a 6L80.
I live in New Caledonia
Mine is reverse my husbands was worse
Dont buy one
It’s all junk!
So if mine is currently operating fine would it be worth it to take it in and having a new/upgraded TC installed? I’ve got a 17 suburban.
I have a question my transmission already fail but i dont know if to take it to the dealer and fix it or just to regular guy they fix transmission is it the quality that they put in i need advise
These were not the best transmissions nor were they the worst. The guy mentions at the beginning of the video about the smell of the fluid. Never changing the fluid is the demise of any automatic transmission. Same with never changing power steering fluid. Rack and pinion steering units are sensitive to dirty fluid.
I’m looking at an 08 2500hd guy says transmission is stuck in 5th gear what’s the cause an fix to this problem does the transmission need to be rebuilt
You definitely don’t know torque converters. There’s a turbine inside of them, not friction pads that contact the front face.. 🤡
Lol. Looks like you're the clown... go look up a cut open converter. They absolutely do have a clutch with friction material.
My 2017 chevy silverado transmission failed at 100,660 miles. I don't pull anything. It is my daily driver. Won't go into drive at all. Aamco transmission shop said it needs a total rebuild at the cost of $4200. GM hotline gave me the runaround so decided to take it to Aamco Trans specialists instead of the dealership. Dealership was more. My 2000 chevy silverado reverse went out at 260,000 mile. $2000 total rebuild. Been a chevy guy for 47 years but I am Not happy with their quality anymore.
I’m out with GM after this. Second rebuild on 14 Sierra coming up. 107k miles. Toyota here I come.
Very informative
The idiots who designed this transmission need to watch this video....
My 2024 8L90 is gust as bad
Thanks this explains a lot about these 8 sp transmissions .Great video .
I have a 2018 Silverado trans just started shifting hard what the fix,?
It's has a6L80
Kind of think y'all are a little far away from Alabama.
Vans thru 2020*
great detail
👍
I have a 2015 2500hd and the transmission overheats. I don’t have a cooler bypass like a lot of these transmissions have. Is there still an upgrade I can do to get it to run cooler? When it is hot I touch the exterior cooler and it is ice cold. Please help. Thanks
I purchaes an upgraded thermostat from my GM dealer it lowered temp to around 140.cost about $120.
Aahm.
Where are you located?
Calgary Alberta Canada
The description of the drum failure could be based on fact.
However, most of what was said about the torque converter is inaccurate.
1) 'metal' does not automatically harden from being heated. 'Steel', which is what torque converter s are made from, does not harden unless it has a high carbon content. Steel with a high carbon content is not suitable for deep stamping. In fact, only high quality sheet stock is suitable for stamping
2) Using vague terms like 'failure rate' with no actual facts is equivalent to marketing, which is another word for propaganda.
Failure rate of 5 in 1,000 may be 'improved' to 4.7 in 1,000 but that is still an unacceptable rate.
So, what is the failure rate of the factory torque converters? What is the rate of your soultion? To just say 'improved' is pathetic, frankly.
Explain why suddenly a specific torque converter has a mysterious failure when these parts have been mass produced by US car makers since 1952.
Using welded steel blocks as mounting points is used on huge diesel engines, so your claim that this is the 'failure point' lacks any credibility at all, particularly since the blocks are not tearing loose and leaving cracks or holes, and the entire torque converter body is a weldment with a 360 degree radial weld on the diameter of the stamping.
You will need to do a lot better than this to make your case, especially since the only 'boogie man' the manufacturer has come up with is improperly formulated fluid.
The man or machine welding those converters could be tuned way down and probably stop virtually all this..other than shotty material
BS, they machine the clutch area after weld. Its the programming allowing slip of the clutch all the time.
I noticed that you're ñocated in Canada, it's a stretch to get out there, I live in Texas, any shops in the US, you gave me hope, I have experienced a shudder when I start going over a slight hill and at times on level surface, we put the computer on and nothing shows up other then a coil pack that was misfiring, corrected that and replaced all the spark plugs and wires, new struts, rear shocks, not what else it could be but in the transmission and possibly the Torque Converter like you broke down, how can I get my hands on one the Billet Torque Converter to have installed in the transmission, do you sell them to individuals or shop, Thank you, Awesome JOB breaking it down
What is the repair for a bad pump?