#1 Boxing Weakness Of Kickboxers/Muay Thai Fighters
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 เม.ย. 2023
- I've always tried to prioritize hands in training and re-create the skills that boxers have. Today we are addressing a few issues I see many kickboxers struggle with as they attempt to work their boxing. If you can correct these small mistakes your punching skills should increase dramatically.
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Who would like a follow along bagwork training video where we work solely on boxing skills???
That would be awesome!
I'm in
Everyone!!
wow,your cool, I’ll follow along🙏🏽
I’m in🙏🏻
I have a hypothesis that the rigidity/stiffness, single punch, and the curved follow-through are due to the MT philosophy that every attack should have that finishing power in it. And then MT power is more "thudding and follow through" than "whipping and back" so that may also explain why they translate that to the hands. Finally, I think punches are scored lower in traditional MT -- so it's all about single punch to elbow/clinch/knee/kick.
Good thoughts.
Correct. A punch is only worth one point. It can go up to 2, if it is not only a very hard punch, but noticably destabilizes the opponent. Traditional Muay Thai scoring usually values the destabilizing of an opponent through hard punches, kicks, knees and sweeps especially.
I think most of the time, Muay Thai fighter only use punch to open or distract their opponent and then they follow with kick/elbow or just enter the clinch. Please correct me if im wrong
Muay Thai starts off slow and gradually builds up which imo is not bad at all, but perhaps some of these high level Thai fighters have that ingrained into them to where it messes with there defense hence the premature KOs. I dunno, I'm just speculating and have no experience in Kickboxing or Boxing in general.
I agree that MT philosophy and scoring system are very strong reasons (which I fully respect). But Superbon vs Allazov and Nong-O vs Haggerty are two recent examples were boxing-style hands won the fight (by knockout). You can generate so much momentum and power just by body rotation and fluidity in your movement that you actually do not even need a 'finishing wish' for every punch.
Spot on. Most of the all time greats to the GOATs of Muay Thai has a commendable background in boxing. Samart with the WBC super bantamweight boxing world title, Somluck with a boxing Olympic gold medal and Saenchai who clocked in some pro boxing bouts just to name a few. Maybe that explains why they are at the top of the Muay Thai mountain. Cos the exposure to boxing added a layer of elusiveness, punch defense, head movement, footwork and smooth crisp hands into their already amazing Muay Thai repertoire, which greatly provides a huge edge and competitive advantage over the rest of the Muay Thai fighters.
For real.
What about Baukaw?
@@stoopidhaters He’s got good boxing as well, he did also train boxing I forget when but he did and got better hand and head movement
They were Muay Thai fighters fighting in boxing. they learned everything in Muay thai, boxing is not their background. They started in Muay Thai. Don't disrespect Muay Thai.
@@user-cn7wy7xx5kwhen did I explicitly mentioned “they are boxers doing Muay Thai”? They are Nak Muays who happened to eventually do boxing along the way. Which adds it to their background, which is why I say they do have a background in boxing. Read my earlier comment again.
(PS. When you learn and practice new things, you can call it your background too. It doesn’t just have to be one background your whole life, unless its you(background in being a Neanderthal 😉)
I love both Kick Boxing and Muay Thai. I took boxing for a year and a half, and then Kickboxing. I had a choice between Muay Thai and Kickboxing, and the reason why I chose kickboxing is because it was eerily similar to boxing. Hear me out, I absolutely LOVE the art of the 8 limbs, but it doesn’t seem to focus on head movement or immaculate footwork the way boxing did. Kickboxing on the other hand focuses more on those aspects as opposed to Muay Thai. Correct me if I’m wrong though. One day I would like to take Muay Thai to incorporate some elbow strikes into my arsenal, as well as clinch work.
Head movement in Muay Thai is risky due to the odds of getting kicked and kneed being so high. You have to be absolutely certain no attack comes from underneath. I once got dropped in sparring because I ducked what I thought was going to be a hook but it was a kick. I was very fortunate that my partner's knee hit the top of my head, which kept me from getting KO'd. Surprisingly his knee hurt more than my head did afterwards.
@@drinfernodds thank you so much for the clarification brother. Muay Thai is dangerous and effective, I actually will be taking it this summer. How do you feel about Lethwei??
@@BoyBlaze2002 Lethwei is interesting but it is a bit more brutal since headbutts are legal. I'd hate to be on the receiving end of one of those.
@@drinfernodds I hear ya brother, 😅 they make head buds look so cool. I saw some lethwei fighters shadow boxing, and the way they incorporated various head budding techniques blew my mind.
3:05 exactly. I don't understand the lack of combos. Mostly when I saw fights where European fighters beat Thai legends is mostly through superior boxing (combos)
5:51 yes you mentioned it.
The squared stance, relative to a typical boxing stance, is also less conducive to popping the jab with the lead hand and then ripping the two while recoiling the jab, or recoiling the two while ripping the three. The elbows out guard to protect against high kicks also has the unfortunate side effect of flared elbows while throwing straight punches.
Trained simultaneously in MT and boxing under two different coaches (Thai and American), and the boxing coach openly expressed frustration at having to "correct" some of the habits reinforced by MT.
there is a video by yokkao of superlek (muay thai) sparring sangarthit (boxing) with just hands, really fun to watch the difference in the way they throw punches.
This latest series of videos reminded me of that too! I should watch it again.
I feel like we all need to work on how to add our elbows into combos
I box now but did mma when I was a kid. More grappling, pad work and drills but did drill knees and elbows alot.
Now when I'm on heavy bag I really enjoy ending a 4 punch combo with an elbow.
Like a jab, cross, hook, elbow 👌
Thank you for the tips like always
You hit the nail on the head! Good stuff!
Incredible content as always.
And we appreciate you too!! Thanks for all the work you put into these videos and breaking things down.
Such a great video champ. Thank you.
Appreciate you bro! Found your channel about a month ago. I must have seen half of your videos by now. Been training Muay Thai for over 15 years and I'm learning a lot! You articulate things really well.
Spot on as usual. Makes me glad that my muay thai kru was also a professional boxer and teaches that art as well 🙂
I don't even practice martial arts but I love these videos
Come back to this comment after you've started training for a few years. You're gonna smile thinking back
@@markmessi9020 Nah I have other priorities right now. Wouldn't want to get distracted with other stuff. The only exercise I do is walking outside for a while every day.
Mr Varga is a great presenter and his explanations are solid. Also helps to have those belts behind him, backing him up. Proof he's not another pudgy gym slummer talking shop about places he's never been is why I care what he says.
gabriel the grand master varga giving us all these free martial arts lesson, thanks for another great video of teaching
Great points, thanks Gabriel! I've noticed how some Muay Thai fighters kick faster than they punch and I think you've hit the nail on the head. Regarding the downward movement with crosses, perhaps the same effect can be achieved without sacrificing defence (and might even improve it) by lowering the whole body, which can also prep for a follow-up kick out uppercut? I'm thinking Jeff Chan's (@mmashredded) style particularly with his double-step low kick.
You’re the first TH-camr to mention the stiffness punches of Muay Thai fighters, something that has bothered me a long time.
Great video! What about a video on what you learn through studying boxing? (And how you applied it to kickboxing)!
The Thailand training is true. The emphasis on the pad holding is always hard single shots. Not really on combos, or setting up a hard shot with other punches.
Not all Muay Thai gyms have instructors that really get those boxing fundamentals, or employ people to run classes that can teach these fundamentals, and then effectively blend the two together. I really enjoyed the Firas Zahabi How to Throw a Punch instructional. As someone who has spent my time in the gym, and done ok, landed plenty of punches, and took plenty too, but have gone thru those times where ive fallen out the gym drive training, i have recently discovered another rebirth in my journey. I think Firas, Tom Yankello on The World Class Boxing channel, Gabriel Varga to blend it all together with high level kickboxing. These are my 3 go-to's for technical training. wisdom as i dabble again. doing my own thing. Would have been nice to have that type coaching when actually training, but its never too late.
Single shots are emphasized cause of the rules set and light lead leg. There’s no retreating like in boxing. Hit and drag to get around the guard. I agree it’s not defensively sound, pornsanae sitmonchai is a good example. Combos really aren’t realistic, the teep and clinch kill the combos
100% "the teep and clinch kill the combos" true
And thats why I love that we have great boxing coaches at my muay thai gym, thai and boxing the perfect mix
Relax, practice combinations, focus on technical details that facilitate combinations… sounds like good advice to me
Awesome, thanks for the video Gabriel.
Yes. My coach told me to throw punches very loose and to throw combos.
One of the unfortunate parts of this era of Muay Thai was the degradation of the boxing level. The golden era of Muay Thai had so many boxing world champs
Idk if we watch same muay thai :D cause this statement is 100%not true
@@krystofcisar469 i'm not sure how many world champs they had, but one person whose names escapes me has a video. in it they talk about how no one would face him in muay thai because of his skill, and so he started boxing internationally and had great success
@@krystofcisar469There is a comment under the video in which the names are indicated:
- Somlak Kamsing is an Olympic Games champion and also Muay Thai fighter,
- Samart Payakaroon is a WBC boxing champion and also a legendary Muai Thai fighter.
It’s about time someone spoke on this ,just think about how boxers can go 12 rounds, it’s because of the relaxation and flow of the techniques, hence why we see MMA fighters Gas out when they box , too rigid
I think the Muay Thai style cross is popular because of how often the Long Guard is utilized. The Thai Cross can act like an overhand to bypass the Long Guard.
Gunna Start boxing this weekend after a little less than a year of muy tai training feelings very awkward with the hands
💯 again from Gabriel 👌
I trained at Tiger Muay Thai in Phuket recently, and the Thai-style is *definitely not* combo strings. They’re absolutely cardio-heavy though...felt like I was gonna die out there! 🤣🤷♂️
PS. Those looping shots aren’t *all bad* . They drill it because it comes up *over* a lot of Thai guards and down onto the opponent’s chin/jaw. They’re very focused on the single knockout cross out there. That loop rattles the brain more if it connects. *IF* 🙏
Haha, I love your name
@@stoopidhaters 🤓🙏
First!! This is so true!
the "Brazilian Style of Muay Thai" Chute Boxe is like Muay Thai with improved boxing combinations ( For me more effective than traditional )
Edit:Spinning kicks are also more practiced because the creator of chute boxe He is black belt in Taekwondo
I personally believe boxing plus TkD is stronger than MT .
You can't really kick Mt style from a European Boxing Stance.
But it's perfect for TkD style point and flick kicking.
If you want to retain a boxing stance it's super important to work on lead leg low kick to inside leg. Proper lead leg not a switch kick.
Because you can't check from a boxing stance. So don't kick there support leg with the leg they trying to kick . Then hands to head while they all off balance. 🥊
@@avancalledrupert5130 lmfao
@@avancalledrupert5130 Yair vs Max Holloway and an example of Boxing+Taekwondo vs Boxing+Muay Thai, it was a close fight
@@avancalledrupert5130 MT 100% beats TKD + Boxing because the boxing stance doesn't allow for properly checking kicks and you very quickly find your back against an opponent with a square stance if they rush you down, not to mention the lack of knees, clench and a good front kick. You also have to remember that if you practice a mix of TKD and boxing, you are going to get less time to make your boxing as good as it should be, as well as making your TKD kicks flexible and quick enough.
I agree that you could theoretically create a martial art that is a mix of TKD and boxing, but it would have to be extremely simplified, sacrificing a lot of the kicks that make TKD competitive in the first place, as well as practice time in developing amazing hands that makes boxing good.
What is the rules of chute boxe?As same as muay thai?
So true!
Gabriel can you think of reasons for these boxing mistakes? Why do thais prefer single shots instead of combos? Is it the rule set? Culture?
Gab umm friendly reminder to stay humble when your training to fight . comment from Calgary
It's all about a stance! Boxing stand on 2 leg which give you mobility and you can swinging your body center to give more power to the punch but leg kick is this style weakness while Muaythai stance stand on 1 leg and you drag your back foot along so it give less mobility and you cant swing your body so punching power come from shoulder only so it's not as powerful
The engagement/rotation of the hip is much more important - hence the power - in Boxing than in May Thaï. It could have been an another point.
Very true good striking needs good boxing period...Whether it's muay thai, kick boxing, sanda or mma, everybody hires a boxing coach at the end of the day...and that's a fact.!
As someone who trains both Karate and Muay Thai, it's amazing how differently my Kru wants me to throw compared to my Sensei. I do appreciate that Muay Thai encourages me to keep my hands up. 😅
Only good reason I can think of for angling a cross down is if they lower their head.
The way the Thai's that taught you that cross isn't wrong. That's called the chopping right hand which has more power than a straight right stone muay thai is mostly about throwing power shots
No lol it’s incorrect. Thais can’t box for shit. They teach boxing incorrectly. I’ve been there twice trained for over a month each time even fought there As well. Thais don’t know shit about boxing.
That's not what a good chopping right hand looks like, though. And a boxer would snap it back just like the other punches.
trevor wittman has critiqued justin gaethje’s chopping right hand over the years. justin has one of the best chopping rights of all time. they have a video together going through the technique of it. check it out to see all the ins and outs of the punch
3:45 Punching downward is more of a cross to increase power.
Boxing is boxing. Thai is Thai. As their own styles I feel it's up to the fighter what they want to combine. I fight Thai, I'm not rigid but I follow up. I follow up with kicks. Not punches. Effectiveness depends on what the fighter can do in their own way.
Jared Robinson and other pro boxers will tell ya... Boxer strikes start from the ground, not the shoulder. Great video!
How do I kick like you…. You mak it look so very easy
Lots of practice I guess.
Maybe I'll do a "how to kick like me episode"
Hi gabriel, I've been training for 3yrs now and about to fight for a regional title, I've fought boxing too, for me it's with the feet, I don't plant my feet the same way as I do in boxing, I almost never plant my feet down and stay on my toes. I've been told to not plant my feet and stay loose, although I've found nobody has reactions fast enough to counter when I'm planted. Would be interested in hearing the opinion from someone at the top and whether in those fast striking moments if taking a boxing stance and style approach is ok, i honesty dont think people are fast enough to counter, thanks
I have a similar point. The main weakness for me are in feet and legs. Many times punches in mt and kb involves only the upperbody and not the lower, where real power lies .
@@matteovac yeah I do wonder if u do plant your feet and get the lower body involved is really that detrimental, even if ur conditioned
I would say you have to know when to plant your feet and when to stay on the toes. You have to know when to stiffen your jab and when to whip it. Making these choices on the fly will make you a champion
But the muay thai arsenal is soo massive why would anyone just stick to boxing when you can bombard your enemy with shit ton of elbows knees high kicks and punches as well
Hey coach Gabriel what’s your opinion on a gym not letting me use gloves that aren’t a certain gloves at the gym? They say it for insurance purposes although I did see one older lad with different brand of gloves on. Is that legit? I would never press nothing legal to my gym no matter because I love the gym but I want to be able to try different equipment to see what works for me best? What do you think coach?
Is it the brand or the size of the glove or both? If it's for sparring then 16oz or sometimes more is standard. Always check your opponent's gloves before you spar btw.
@@undeadpresident it’s the brand apparently it’s for insurance purposes. I’ve never heard this before though from anyone and in other gyms videos lots of people have different gear.
@@StoneTheFighter yeah that seems odd to me
I've trained in Thailand repeatedly but not run into this drag down on your punches thing... where did that come from??
I understand what Gabriel is saying but I do think you could say that about ALL ARTS punching is the most easy way to put someone out. Asia focus on kicks western Hands Muay Thai in Thailand along with other arts have always been more about kicks Decker is a good example of this in the 90's he came with western boxing with strong kiks to beat the Thai's example Coban vs Decker where he takes the title this is what the Dutch style worked on over many decades. Now Haggerty had to box to get this win he lost a while ago 2 Rodtang and how did this happen because Rodtang is a Thai puncher and caught haggerty with a body shot if that aint boxing.
Boxer’s integrate more whole body (&head) movement into all their technique. When kicks and knees are involved this needs to be abbreviated. That being said, most kickboxers $ MT fighters are much too abbreviated. Most have no head movement or spinal flexion.
P.s. I still hate your hook. I know you’re Canadian but you should use the American hook. 🙃
"Most have no head movement or spinal flexion" its called KARATE
Wanna see you fighting in BKFC
Not too much money in there and too risky for his health
@@lolsypussy one and done for 500k
@@angeljimenez9909 not too bad ig
But Gabriel is a high level kickboxer who defeated legends
Retired MMA fighters go there and probably get the same amount or even more
Gabriel should be getting more for that 😂
Would love to see Gabriel fought in ONE though, especially in MMA
There's not a lot of elite boxers in ONE so he will be facing MMA strikers
@@remyhavoc4463 I wonder how much they are paying Rockhold. That guy is not cheap. Would love to see Dat Nguyen vs Gabriel Varga.
I like to think that everytime Gabriel gets punched in the head during sparring, a new idea for a video pops up. 😂
Hi
ผมอยากเห็นคุณใน one championship จังเลย😅
Pool noodles!
A big part of it is having to be light on your lead foot. If you’re heavy you are going to get leg kicked constantly
I thought Muay Thai + stronger boxing was the strength of Dutch Kickboxing?
Dutch style is a bit different than the straight up Muay Thai + Boxing that people Samart and Petrosyan use.
Dutch style was developed from Japanese kickboxing which is a combination of Boxing, Kyokushin and Muay Thai. Dutch kickboxing is more aggressive compared to Japanese style developed by Kenji Kurosaki.
“Wealth is not about having a lot of money; it's about having a lot of options.” - Chris Rock
-grappling
(Im just joking)
I definitely noticed this training in Phuket, but my gym in Samui was spot on with these bad habits and made sure I wasnt doing them. Checkout Superpro if anyone ever needs a technical Thai gym in their travels!