The creation story reminds me of the creation story of silmarillion. Not in the relationship between entities, but in how it creates good and evil. Tolkien did an amazing job of recreating a natural religion
Tolkien was a practicing Catholic and also a linguist with a great interest in Germanic and Norse myths. The religion in Middle Earth was deliberately written so that “Eru” has the same attributes as the catholic/Jewish conception of God (and through that an Aristotelian conception). The similarity likely stems from that.
all of the stories of middle earth are tolkiens version of earths history. the Silmarillion is similar to this creation myth because that's where it was literally derived.
I'm a classicist, so I'm mostly familiar with PIE linguistics and Graeco-Roman mythology, but your comment about how ritual was more important than faith for pagan religions suddenly enlightened my understanding of Greek and Roman beliefs. I already knew from literary sources that people didn't always believe in the gods in the most literal sense, certainly not in later periods, but as long as the rituals were performed, that faith wasn't really required. Which seems to me why accusations of impiety and such only happened when it would affect the rituals and actions. It also matches with some of the discussions that happened in the early centuries of Christianity since in pagan apologetic literature, we can see that they emphasise that the traditional rites should be performed because they have allowed Rome to be safe and powerful for centuries and certainly not done harm, rather than discussing faith (which the Christians do in their apologetic literature). While some scepticism remains for some of the things you mention based on things I've learned from my professors, there is an incredible richness and depth of research in these videos and they form a very interesting supplement to knowledge I already have.
@@Crecganford I too appreciate your emphasis on the importance of practice over "faith", something I've noticed many Christian scholars overlook or ignore although Pagan writers are adamantly insistent must be performed. Religions have many similarities, yet are very different from one another. Thank you.
Wow, nice feedback when taken into the context of the video. I've noticed a massive departure in religions from older ones - older religions like those of the helenistic era are, as you said, far more secular and ritualistic. I'd often laugh at how the Greeks seemed to have as much disdain for their own gods as their gods often had for them. Zues himself was such a pompous prick... there was no reason to really like him. The Romans, in particular, were so ritualistic that it defined much of their culture to such a degree that without it? We probably wouldn't know as much about as we do now. Their penitent to record, legalize, legislate, and count EVERYTHING via a Diety ordained Standard Operating Procedure is what helped them be so organized and also so bureaucratic. However younger religions like Islam and Christianity are far more prophetic and center themselves around Doomsday styled cult memetics. Much of that has to do with an older religion (Judiasm) having its ritual heart (the Temple) being shattered by foreigners of another old ritualistic religion (Romans). To make up for the Broken Covenant, Christianity reforms the Temple and becomes a redemption / revolutionary Faith. Islam is much the same way, a reinvention of an old message, although ritualistic needs is still required more in Islam than an in Christianity. Both new 'Faiths' have holistic goals; an end game if you will - where as the old religions don't. Sure the world may end according to the old religions as well but it's perceived as an inevitable death or rebirth, not as an ascension to a higher plane of being. It's interesting how the later religions place more value on Faith. Even old Judiasm is very removed from the faith aspect. It focuses far more an actual deeds and following the law (ritualism) than it does blind faith.
This is still true of multiple modern religions. Japanese syncretic religion (a mishmash of Shinto, Buddhism, and Christianity) certainly values the *doing* of rituals above any coherent belief system.
Hecate is often represented as a three-faced or three headed goddess, and she's just one of many forms of the maiden, mother, crone triple goddess in many cultures. The interesting thing about Hecate is that, although she's considered part of the Greek pantheon, she may have pre-Greek origins in Anatolia and she is traditionally associated with snakes.
Yes, she is definitely an earlier representation, and perhaps influences the shape of the serpent in older mythology, with the three-headed six-eyed serpent of NgWhi.
The Egyptian gods and the Greek gods are the same. Origin is Anatolia. Hecate might be the Befana of Italy. She starts young early in the year and becomes old. Anna Perenna was the name of the Etruscan godess.
@@peterlokin4098I think he's saying that she was one of the early snake deities that influenced where they would eventually land as a cultural artifact
Much respect for you to even turn down sponsorships and for only doing these videos to educate people. That seems very rare to me. It is very appreciated!
Hi, good video. Purusha in Rigveda is also called Manu (Shraddhadeva Manu) and his twin brother is Yama. And get this, Manu is considered to have built a boat when warned by a fish that a great deluge is coming and thereby saved the 7 sages, so Manu is somehow associated as Noah and Gilgamesh. Yama in RigVeda is the first mortal and hence considered the lord of afterlife like hades.
@@manh9105 yeah but the similarity just doesn't seem coincidental, our creation story plausibly influenced the people who later on migrated deep into the European wetlands from eastern europe, Eastern Europe Caucuses are fairly easy to reach and have historically been places of multiethnic presence
In 4 years of almost daily youtube use, you are UNDOUBTABLY one of the greatest channels I have discovered, I feel lucky, like I've struck gold, to have found your channel. You combine multiple modes of thought into holistic, engaging, intuitive understanding. For me, the greatest part of your comprehensive explanations is that they let us all appreciate the magnificent scope of our sacred, precious humanity. Listening to you talk is like watching a tapestry get woven together, as threads of ideas become one whole, beautiful masterpiece. Thank you so much for taking the leap of faith and starting to make these videos, and thank you so much for continuing this great work, and putting so much valuable education out into the ether for us all, thank you Crecganford!!!
I would rather watch your videos than watch the news!! You speak with an honest objectivity. You are such a wonderful alternative. Simple facts. Please keep this up. You ARE doing a wonderful service in these times of ego and stupidity.
@teachers Thank you, I do teach, and therefore it would not be in my interest to make these dogmatic, or anything other than factual. So I appreciate people noticing this.
I happened to run across this channel by mistake on Monday, and have spent my lunch break this entire week watching nothing but your episodes. Many thanks for such a thorough, engaging, and cerebral series!
@@Crecganford No apologies required at all. Extremely happy I found your channel! Already subscribed, but I do have one question, if you would allow. Would you suggest watching your videos from a chronological order in how you uploaded them, or watching them based on topics? But thank you so much for taking the time to reply!
Love seeing motifs that translate into later cultures. I can't help but think of Seth and Osiris when manus is dismembering his brother. Also can't help but think of tiamat in regards to a serpent monster being the antagonist. Also tiamat again in the using of a divine body to create the heavens and the earth. Hearing these PIE myths really is like reading part of our cultures genome
Yes, the beginning myths of many cultures are very similar, and I will talk about these more in my next video. Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment.
I am a contemporary Volva, German-American and Indigenous First Person pagan. Your videos are the best out on European mythology, art, craft, and practice. Your demeanor in your presenting is tactful, respectful, and poignant. Your ideas and discussion resonate well with me, friend.
@@redwolf7929 What is your Facebook if you don't mind sharing here? Would need to vet your Facebook and decide if I can send you a friend request and use messanger from there. You can share the profile link with me then delete it from the comments.
Grateful that I found your channel The sheer amount of hardwork you put into these. And the respect you have for all cultures you discuss is staggering. However, as an Indian, I want to point out that in Vedic Culture, Manus is *Manu* and Yemos or Ymir is *Yama*
not the same manu we know, we know it through manusriti , the political book . i think here manu is more of a divine being, probably manus has directly become manav or manush is our languages
Thanks for the video. Now that I'm disabled, I watch lots of TH-cam quite a bit. I watch conservative non-fundamentalist Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Theravada Buddhist, secular History and Science, and mythology videos Your channel falls nice into my sphere of interest, so I subscribed. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
Hey man I just found your videos I think your channels great, as far as keeping in touch with the fans im not sure how to help but I just wanted to say I think the way you're presenting everything is perfect. Glad to hear you're not taking funding, I wouldn't want anything to influence the way you can present this information. Keep up the good work, man, its helping me a lot and I think you're a great story teller
I have just started a Patreon, but it won’t effect my work, but it will allow me to get a few extra books every now and then. But I won’t ever take a sponsorship or advertising, that would spoil things. Anyway, thanks for watching and your kind words.
The sumerians and Egyptians have similarities to these too, I think the creation myth is a lot more common in general points of narration elements and continuity than PIE and near east, but that's just the abrahahmic philosopher in me talking. Rituals are extremely important, in abrahahmic terms they would call that law/Torah, to keep the physical world in harmony we must have actions of the universal laws/"works", to keep the spiritual world in harmony we must have faith, that is a very old esoteric concept.
High, Just-as-High, and Third... From Gylfaginning, where Odin disguised as "Gangleri", describes three figures sitting upon thrones; 'High upon the lowest, Just-As-High on the mid-highest, and Third on the highest of the thrones.' The three-figure motif is replete across I-E culture! Love this.
hmmm this checks out Greek Zeus Poseidon and Hades Indian Vishnu Shiva and bradma roman Jupiter potoe and Neptune although I'm not sure about Celtic and Germanic.
I have to say I very much enjoy the focus on Indo-European history and comparative mythology that seems to be the mainstay of this channel. This is the second video on the channel that I've watched and it has become apparent that it is very much worth subscribing, as I love history and all of the various sciences that flow from such, be they mythological, religious, cultural, or linguistic studies.
@@Crecganford It is I that must thank you for your contributions to the breadth of historical knowledge available on this platform. I look forward to more presentations and discussions, hopefully for a long time to come. PS: As a side-note, the subtitles are appreciated and I've referred to them quite a few times for clarity (especially when there were other noises in the room - such as my fan on these hot summer days).
About the question at the end, I'm a youtube guy and I'm not used to other platforms, besides Reddit, but this is me personally. A discord could be better/more organized than the previous ones, and people probably wouldn't mind downloading it to ask questions/read a discussion about a topic they are interested on. 🤔
One of my favourite new channels. Thank you so much for making these videos and sharing your knowledge. PS. Book reviews are a GREAT idea. There is so much bad stuff out there so it would save people some money knowing if the book is worth it and plus you could put Amazon links in the description so you could make a few quid too.
I still haven’t managed to get around to do a book review, but I will, so many people are asking for them. Leave it with me, and thanks for watching, and commenting
Just found this channel. Good work. With your apparently deep understanding of linguistics, i think a video by you about the story of the tower of babel would be super interesting.
You really do a great job of presenting these fascinating things in plain and understandable language. With thanks from the other side of the world (assuming you are still in the UK). Your calm and level style of presenting is even ore attractive as I only have time to listen just before bedtime.
What’s really cool about the sacrifice of Yemo is… that’s kind of actually what happened. Shortly after the earth first formed, another smaller planet that we now call Theia crashed into it, half of Theia merging with the Earth, and half breaking off to form the moon. So if we consider Manus to be the earth and Yemo to be Theia, then it kind checks out. That’s kinda cool
That's a very interesting point. It's curious how we can correlate some of the oldest myths and still find bits and pieces that actually check out with nature, that were impossible for the peoples that first told them to knew about. There's the case of the pacific north-west people who, tell the story of a recurring flood myth that was always preceded by an earthquake. Recent geologic and archeologic excavations confirm the stories, because of activity in the Cascadia Fault Zone there were tsunamis hitting the coasts every 200-500 years and the first one (the mythical one) corresponds with a mega Earthquake that happened 1700 years ago.
@@kernell__ There are also multiple European and Middle Eastern flood myths that seem to reflect various historical flood events, such as the filling of the Persian Gulf, the flooding of the Black Sea, a tsunami in the Indian Ocean caused by a meteor strike, etc. Some theorise they originated in ancient stories passed down through oral tradition, while others think that it could have come from humans finding shells and fossils of sea creatures far from the sea, and therefore concluding that the land must have flooded in ancient times.
@@BambiTrout Or. As human societies settled near water, rivers, lakes the coast. And as rivers tend to have seasonal floods. And as these vary according to all sorts of weather variations with some being disastrous. Oral history wont have been needed as they experienced floods regularly.
Those people didn’t know what we know now, so it’s purely coincidence that one of the abundance of creation myths appears to have some truth in it. The best way to describe these coincidences is that saying about a broken clock.
In Gustave Flaubert's < Salammbô > novel, set in the aftermath of the first punic war, at Carthage, the priestess of Tanith narrates to the mercenaries the story of "Melkarth" (Hercules/Mythra ?), who did great deeds and adventures, such as climbing the highest mountains, fighting a great war against a rival kingdom... and slaying snake-woman (dragon/hydra ?), which is pretty much the same story, with differences, than those of Hercules, Siegfried or even Cadmos, Perseus, Jason and Gilgamesh. Could we say, judging by these elements, that Hercules's twelve tasks are a sort of "old" indo european myth about a king or a prince, that was transform, through some modifications ? And same question for the myth of Remus and Romulus. It's fascinating to see how one story is rewritten and developped, complexified, through the passing time, and to one culture from another. I think even us, little people, can see some links and resemblances, but it's always fascinating, even after years and years of study, to see how one story passed through time and became a full mythology. ^^
Thank you for watching, and yes, I quote Herakles and Hercules, and others, in other Indo-European myths such as they follow the same dragon slaying story. When you start realising that so many stories and so related to so many others, then it really opens up a whole new realm of understanding about how our ancestors interacted with each other. My next video, out on Saturday, talks more about this and the dragon myths which may interest you.
I think they are so similar because they are all based on constellations. Stories were first told to keep track of seasons, but then the personifications turned them into stories of adventure.
I love the idea of you providing book reviews in future videos! They could possibly also be delivered as curated top 5 or 10 pieces of literature that you recommend for learning more about a specific topic you cover in one of your other educational videos. The TH-cam algorithm seems to favor top # lists and I think so many more people on this platform are hungry for more knowledge and insight that can be drawn from ancestral wisdom.
Yes, I will look into this, maybe as a supplementary video… I have so many books I probably could make a years worth of videos reviewing. I guess that means I guess that also means I should start sooner rather than later
I have Anglo-Irish ancestors who obviously would have been influenced by Germanic beliefs and as such derivatives of the Proto-European mythology. You are right in saying that where there are cognates and similar motifs in creation myths you can safely say that they come from the same source. I live in Mindanao Philippines now and I have noticed the similarities in the creation myths of the Visayan and Tagalog people. The common thread is always a bird and bamboo from which the first man and woman emerge. There are variations beyond this but those key elements remain.
@@Crecganford I think that just as cows were important to the Proto-Indo-European people, so bamboo was here in the Philippines. It was, and still often is, a major building material. Traditional houses called "Bahay Kubo" in Tagalog (Filipino), and "Payag" in Binisaya (Cebuano) were almost exclusively made from bamboo with roofs made from cogon grass or coconut palm leaves. Often the houses were raised on stilts, and entry was via a ladder made of bamboo. Workers around where I live often use bamboo ladders made in the traditional style. They have a higher tensile strength than steel or aluminum yet are light to carry. Of course, young bamboo shoots are part of the cuisine too. It makes sense that the first man and woman must have come from bamboo!
@@gaufrid1956 Celtic mythology is also Indo-European, so your ancestors would have been immersed in the Indo-European creation myths in both the Germanic form through the Germanic Anglo-Saxons, and the Celtic form through the Celtic Irish and Britons. Probably some Germanic Norse in there too.
@@willmosse3684 Sure! I remember my dad telling me that his side of the family also had some German ancestors. As well, my maternal grandfather's surname was "Bone", which was derived from the Norman French "Bonne", "Good". That obviously means that I had Norman ancestors as well.
How wonderful that you love to teach. I have found that there is a lot of junk on TH-cam presenting unsupported conformation biases. Great to see well researched pieces with 😅authentic information. I have been watching your videos along with a couple of others that treat with similar time frames that support the idea you can expand your information on the topics presented with confidence that the author of the video has done real work to get the available facts. Bravo.
Thank you! I just bumped into this from the yt recommendations, and oh my did I find a treasure trove! This is exactly the stuff I want to learn more of, and your presentation hits me just right. As for questions, I am a Finn, and interested in the origins of finnic peoples and myths, and I wondering how they fit into PIE? As far as I know, finnish has some connection to sanskrit, and by my understanding the myths and peoples originated somewhere on the western Ural, but where did they come from to there? We have an old god Perkele, whose name is still on every Finn's lips when they get pissed off or frustrated, who is a storm god derived from Perkunas, but the heroes of our national epic Kalevala are mostly poem-singers, and our word for hero, sankari, comes from swedish word sjungare meaning singer.
I can't say for sure if Finnish people or culture descended from Proto-Indo-European peoples or cultures, but I can say that the Finnish language is not at all Indo-European; it's part of a small and completely different group called Finno-Uguric.
Great presentation. I have a question about the composite of the myth you presented at the beginning,; there were a couple of things that are different both from versions you have in earlier videos, and things I have read. *A)* In this version you say that the first twin _(*Manu)_ sacrifices the second twin _(*Yemo),_ - _to the chief diety/skyfather,_ who in return furnishes the materials/capabilities for constructing the cosmic order. In the original versions I have heard, and in your previous presentations it just appeared that _*Manu_ sacrifices _*Yemo,_ without dedication to any of the other deities, and constructs the cosmic order out of his body parts/essence (the actual offering the sacrifice to the sky/storm god only happening later with _*Trito_ Is there any particular reason why you went with this version? Is there good evidence for one or the other being the original / older variant? *B)* In this version you say that _*Trito_ is the first created man, who then goes on to become the first warrior. In other versions, and previous videos, it is usually said that he is actually the last of the three cosmic brothers (hence "third"). Which conception is generally considered to be more accurate? *C)* I guess kind of a corollary to the one above, but this seems to be a bit confused by the fact that _*Manu_ is also referred to as the first created man. Is there some meaningful distinction made between the "humanness "of the Divine Twins versus mwn after were typing in other words are they human progenitors, are they a distinct category, more akin to deities (and if so, is _*Trito_ considered to be "of a kind" to them, or in the "lesser" group) Sorry if this is a bit of a long and involved question for a comments section, but my curiosity is getting the better of me.
I'm not sure I can easily answer this in the space a TH-cam comment provides, and in my next video I'll release on September 4th, I'll answer this fully as I retell the story with some "tweaks". But to answer... the other versions I have told were abridged for time purposes, but I wanted to give the idea of the myth. The gods had to be created, and they could not be created by the King or Man, and so like other Indo-European myths, I felt the creation of them in the cosmos fitted. Trito, by first man, I should say first not sovereign man, but it didn't quite have the flow of the story, but I'll clarify that in next week's retelling. And part c is complicated :) So for Yemo to be sacrificed to make the world he must be divine, as no human could provide enough material to create the world. But he also appears in many myths as "human", and so we just have to put this down to the flexibility of myth telling, and the same applies to Manus. But I will try and firm up the myth in the next video and provide a lot more explanation of why. And so I hope you can watch that. Many thanks for a great question or three :)
And Manus can be thought to mean earth, so all men came from the earth as opposed to the gods in the heavens. It's a very earthly and natural story to explain things.
In ancient Sanskrit (or 'Samskrt,' as the correct name goes) literature, the first man is (Svaayam-bhuva) Manu. (Svaayam-bhuva means 'self-originated,' so it is more like a title.) 'Manu' is still a very, very common name for men in India, same as 'Adam' in Judeo-Christian societies. The term for human beings, homo sapiens, in all Indian languages (both Indo-European and Dravidian) is 'Manushya.' The literal meaning of Manushya is 'descendants of Manu.'
Manu not Mannus. The word Manush comes from it (Mannus makes it sound Greek). Manu was also the source of much of the caste bigotry you see to this day, so hardly someone to look up to.
Yes, Manu is the PIE word, and the s was added as the myth headed into Europe. But Manu also turned into Odin, Romulus, and even Purusa is a form of him…
@@ColtraneTaylor 1. The spirit in which we (this channel and the community that follows it) explore ancient myths is to consider them a treasure of cultural information. It is not to find gods or role models to look up to. This latter spirit is exclusive to zealots both religious and anti-religious (the Marxist and critical theory types). The religious, of course, sincerely draw values and role models from scripture. The anti-religious are more interesting: they have an unhealthy obsession with the most uncharitable readings of ancient thought, and seem to suffer from the delusion that anybody with a remotely positive disposition towards ancient thought must draw all their values from it, and must therefore be old-fashioned and narrow-minded. 2. You're referring to the manu smrti, which indeed contains casteist and otherwise reprehensible teachings. It is a specific moral doctrine from a specific period of ancient India. And names in the Indian tradition are commonly repeated across periods, genres and schools of thought. So, the manu of manu smrti need have nothing whatsoever to do with the mythical manu cognate with the PIE manus.
So, by mentioning that Pūrūsa means man, you unlocked for me the enigma as to why Latin has virus for man instead of a word based on m-n. Virus and Purus are close and the P changes to fricative very easily (Phurus). Greatly appreciated!
@@akalrove4834 well it seems our forefathers were pragmatic and named things according to their principal features. I keep saying that even English “woman” is made of “womb” & “man”. Which is genius and waking up to this would save many evil arguments of gender crusaders, because it kinda proves that both women and men are men (shifting the meaning of word “man” towards “human”), just one of them has a life giving womb (which was apparently much more important and precious to our predecessors).
@@rexsceleratorum1632 oh that is I guess a normal process: vira in the "man" meaning went its own way towards more specialized hero. But that is within one and the same ancestor language. Perhaps that is the reason why it changed to Purusa for just "man"? And the vira might have meant man originally in sanskrit ancestor language. But I guess the basic words like these are very well researched in the pre-IE language. So I don't want to search - for me a revelation is already the origin of Latin "virus".
@@Alarix246 Widely different forms such as purusha and vira seem unlikely to be from the same root unless one of the forms was later borrowed from a (rather distantly) related language. Both forms can't obviously obey the same set of sound laws.
I want your library! All of it! I am in the process of writing a SF/Fantasy series, and need to devise mythologies for at least two alien cultures. Understanding how such myths work will be a great help. Thank you for all your hard work.
I think there's a queue building for it so I'll leave you all to fight it out when I'm gone :) and please bear in mind that you have only seen about 10% of it! Good luck with your series, I think one of the biggest secrets to myths, is that not only are they built on truths, they are often built on the truths of other cultures before them. Which really gives some exciting plot possibilities of lost civilizations, and the civilizations their myths were based on.
@@ghostpatriot2370 LMMFAO, not even close! We don't live on the back of a turtle, we don't live under a dome on a pizza-shaped disk, and we didn't once have dragons flying around, either! Nor did we get very healthy advice from some of those sources, either - not washing one's hands before eating isn't really a great idea. 😄😄😄😄
Very interesting work! I just point out the stark departure between the stories you tell and the book of Genesis. Genesis stands alone among all world wide creation myths in that God exists outside of time and space and is not temporally created out of some type of existing matter. God creates all things from outside space time by speaking everything into existence ex nihilo. No twins, no cattle, no monsters, no raiding, no antics between created gods fighting, mating, or raping each other.
I love that the leader had to sacrifice himself to keep the people safe and abundant. This way any idiot who thinks he should be in charge must die so the rest of us can be at peace. The good ol days, the good ol days
I'm new to your channel and I'm am so impressed by the breadth of your knowledge. I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell's work. I'd love to hear longer videos if you can. Like 50+ minutes or even longer. You're amazing!!
Hi John. I really love & appreciate your videos. I would recommend creating a Discord server. It has great tools for your purpose & is easy to set up & maintain. Thanks again for sharing your vast knowledge with us!
'Manu' is also a priest in Indian Vedic stories related to a Myth about great flood. And 'Manus' is also a word in Sanskrit and some Western Indian languages which means man. But I don't know if they are related to Creation Myth or not. I was also watching to know the Indian myth, because I am an Indian. So it was a little dissatisfying that you didn't included it.
There are a number of flavours of creation myth within the Vedas and it would need at least two videos to cover them. But I'm happy to do this if there is demand.
@@Crecganford I recently watched your other video "Comparative Mythology for Indo-European creation myth", where you explained the myth related to Indian Vedas. I loved it. Although I would love to have a more detailed explanation, but I am not sure how many Indians will be interested. Also it was my first time learning that there was such creation myth in Hinduism. Since they are kind of forgotten and replaced with more believable myths.
Very Illuminating. My take is that the creation myth was not so much an Origination Myth but a story telling the history of transition from Matriarchal to Patriarchal Society, the Thrice headed serpent would be the female Ruling Council, the Virgin, the Mother the Crone. veneration of the Cow (not the Bull) was represented by the river of Milk (the Milky way) and the constellation Boötes, In Greek, & SHU.PA. in Sumerian, which could also be considered the great river that needed to be crossed in death, probably the Matriarchal society was sedentary and agricultural but as the Younger Dryas came on, the need for migration became necessary as the ice sheets spreed. and so domestication of the horse was required to move herds long distance. Also the danger involved in picking up your society and transporting it long distances probably meant that a transfer of power occurred as the men were more necessary for protection from the wild things that lived out there in the forests and plains. I think that as we moved across the landscape it was very important to understand the movement of the stars just like sailors. And a lot of these myths are also mental maps of the earth reflective of what was happening in the sky. The question is, were all Sacrifices, Blood Sacrifices, some ancient cultures may have considered Menstruation, and Birth as Sacrifice, Ma can be seen as the root word for female and so does not necessarily represent the masculine, so the first MA-n, Mother gave birth (sacrificed her singularity) to Twins. she gave a part of herself to become Two, in Matriarchal society all spiritual people in the society like priests and shaman were female, (even today the majority of Shaman these old cultures are female). Sorry, Rambling..
Interesting thoughts, I enjoy reading how others consider it. There are so many variables as we go back it is really difficult to prove what came from what, but will ponder your thoughts. Thank you
Interesting concepts, but from the linguistic point of view, "Man" in Indo-European (as in the Latin: Maniple "A handful") likely means "beings with hands" or "those with hands", since most Eurasians had never seen other primates, the only beings with hands they had seen were Humans. So "Man" literally means "Those with hands" as opposed to animals without any kind of hand. Interesting in many Indo-European languages "Man" is not sex specific. In Old English (Anglo-Saxon) for example females were known as "Wif-man": meaning "weaving person", while men were called "Weap-man" meaning an "armed person". Wif-man later became "Wife" and the term "Women" in English is also derived from similar designators.
@@simonmoorcroft1417 I lean more towards the "man means earth" approach, due its mortal inference when compared to the "sky father" deity. I think I may touch on this at the end of the PIE video I did a couple of weeks ago. But no theory has yet been proven beyond doubt, it is just my preference.
@@Crecganford Yes I agree. The ideas are not really mutually exclusive. I just followed the linguistics, after all this is how religious concepts were transmitted before the invention of writing. Man as "earthly" and distinct from the "divine" pops up a lot in Indo-European religions. The phrase "those with hands" also divides humans from mere animals of course in a similar manner. After all animals cannot speak, nor perform rituals to honour the gods. The concept of humans being more important and more "divine" than mere animals also appears, but becomes more emphasised by later religious beliefs, where people become more separated from the land. As language develops, meanings change and it is likely that "Man" has both a literal meaning and a spiritual meaning. It is possible that the word itself predates PIE itself having origins in the Palaeolithic.
Love this channel. Thank you for your knowledge and for sharing it to us. I think that if I had this information and a better appreciation for mythology. I don’t think that my time as a Christian would have been a lot shorter.
Manuš means man in Romani, an Indian-Aryan language. Perkele (I presume from Perkunas) is a word we use in Finnish for the devil. I haven’t finished watching the video so there maybe more comments coming!
Ritual is key: it‘s interesting to note that that aspect has reverberated also through Vedic (in India) and Confucian (in China) teachings that seem to have defend the ‚traditional way of adhering to (forms of) rituals‘ against other, competing views.
Yes, there is a HUGE steppe component in "ProtoIndoEuropean" culture, but do not overlook the linguistic evidence for a forest and foothill origin of the people as well: terms for trees (e.g., birch, maple, ash, pines and other conifers, the many prunus species) and for animals (e.g., beaver, fox, wolf, deer, bear) have cognates in all the PIE language daughters.
Did you write your rendition of this reconstructed tale? If so amazing job. Would love to see a book one day of all these tales in a consecutive mythology.
The word for "earth/land" is "Erets". The pictographs given is an OX HEAD, the head of a man, and a road. The ox walking with a man down a road or an ox leading a man down a road is a few ways it can be envisioned. It means also name wise symbolically a divine or heavenly thing with or leading a man down a road or making him from a trail is how Hebrews saw what it means to have earth (a mnemonic perhaps of the creation of man from earths dust and how the nature of cows, man, and trails of earthen substance interact and mimic this.
Just found this channel , I studied the Kabbalah under A Jewish Hereditary Kohain , studied the Zohar and other texts with him , There were many mystery’s revealed in our times of study together , my own teacher also studied under James Kirche who studied under Jung , dream interpretation was central to what we do, his passed 6 years ago now at 82 years old . One of the teachings that sticks out to me at this moment comes from the Zohar which said before there was a Torah in Israel , we had a Torah of Creatures . I Appreciate all teachers of the ancient ways
It would be more likely that Yemo is woman, and died giving birth to Trito. Here you would have the Priest/Druid, Mother/Queen and Warrior/Chieftain of the Celts/Gaels and holy three, Skyfather, EarthMother and Water, the underworld.
Whilst that makes sense to think that, the Yemo figure is often able to reproduce without help. But maybe before the Manu/Yemo figures, there was a Manu/Wīf combination. That would make sense in particular circumstances.
Insightful. A primal experience that affected everyone. Pain and loss mythologized and given significance. Is that your work or is there a source? Thank you.
I like your content, and I just subscribed, but the choppy audio is a little abrasive. Is there any way you can address that? I hope you continue to produce quality work like this!
As someone who is in the process of déconstruction from conservative Christianity, and learning that foundational biblical stories like creation, come from creation myth's handed down from generation to generation since the dawn if time, helps me sooooo much! I must also say that incredible to me that these myths are so old and yet people still believe them. I'm not sure if i should be horrified or impressed or maybe a bit of both.
I would like to know more about the origin and meaning of the snakes/dragons in the myths, and if there is a connection between the snakes of old norse myths et cetera and the dragon myths in Asia.
Yes, this is something I'm researching right now, and will make a video when I feel I have enough good evidence to support it. This is a really interesting topic, and goes back many thousands of years.
@@Sinsteel we also see in some of these myths that the heavenly bull/slain serpent is owned by a chief goddess or the primordial serpent itself is a female, and we also know from non IE Europeans that they worshipped chiefly a chthonic female deity, for instance the Basque people still hold this memory. It could be that this is an very old memory of two vastly distinct people groups in conflict, or in fact the IE springing forth from this original mythology and distinguishing themselves, like how the Israelites separated from the canaanites albeit far more drastically
Interesting video, though I am not fully convinced of the connection between Indo-European myth into the Bible's account (or even its supposed evolution into other mythos). It seems more like a case of correlation does not equal causation. As it is entirely possible that each developed relatively isolated from one another, unlike modern day where information is at your finger tip. I still enjoyed hear about the myth and respect what your attempting to accomplish based on your studies. :)
I will dive into Genesis more soon, to explain it's mythological roots, and will say the Mesopotamian cultures influenced Indo-European beliefs as much as the other way around.
There is very ancient creation tale in Ukraine called "Egg Heaven" (Яйце Райце). It is very similar to this PIE myth. Also there are tales about three-headed serpent, that was defeated by Hero.
discord is probably the best bet for a community , your best bet is to contact someone with an existing large server and ask what is good to know regarding moderating such a thing mind
Thanks, I think the moderation is still a problem, and so I have started a Patreon, which allows me to share additional information and have people ask me questions. I will however review this situation at the end of the year.
Hi @Crecganford. If the Sumerian creation myth is related to the Indoeuropean one there should/could be linguistic parallels. A Kurdish researcher, Soran Hamarash, provided compelling evidence that Sorani Kurdish is related to Sumerian (which therefore is not a died out language). As a consequence of this, the geographical origin of Proto-Indoeuropean would rather be Anatolia than the Pontic Steppe. Please look into this although it might look odd. I love your videos. Best, Andreas
I have studied Sumerian, vocabulary, grammar, phonology and the other main aspects of a language, though there isn't a single thing about the language that reminds me of Gothic, Latin, Greek or any other Indoeuropean language I familiar with in any way at all. I have read about Kurdish scholars arguing wether the Hattians, Hurrians or the Sumerians are ancestral to the Kurds. The problem is, some preserved Hattic, Hurrian and Sumerian substrate vocabulary might exist, though probably sourced via a Semitic language like Akkadian, maybe Elamite. But that doesn't make Kurdish, Hurrian and Sumerian part of a common language family, in the scientific sense of the term, at all. Akkadian, Elamite, Kurdish, Sumerian, Hattic and Hurrian, each one of those languages is from a distinct language family. Elamite is either isolated or Dravidian. Assuming Kurdish as Indoeuropean, it probably is instead distantly related to Akkadian, as Old Kurdish and Akkadian share a considerable amount of morphology AND also a numeral, but make no mistake, either attribute should be assumed as mere chance, as for example the similarities in grammar between Hattic, Sumerian and Hurrian are evident, but are almost exclusively constructional, meaning superficial and basic, so hardly any inflections, pronouns or stuff of that kind, are shared. Following this logic of EMEĞIR = KURDI, Kurdish should be classed as creole language based on a Basque substrate, with a Georgian superstrate (which obviously is bullshit, but just to demonstrate). You're not really trying to argue, Kurdish isn't Indoeuropean? If so, what is then? Sumerian is rare considered as extremely distantly related to Indoeuropean, maybe, but that's really nothing to emphasise study on - Indoeuropean and Hurrian are likely closer, the most up to date hypothesis goes as follows: Kurds are the descendants of the Hurrians, who entered Mesopotamia either together with the Aryans or the Sumerians, and the Hurrians influenced Indoeuropean even before it split into the different branches like Celtic, Germanic, Aryan etc.
@@briananderson2219 It's hard to tell for sure, my own belief at the moment is that this is a pure agricultural thought, and not linked to the heavens. So more to do with families and communities driving this.
@@briananderson2219 the only thing I can think of as being twins in the sky is the sun and moon. I don't know if ancient peoples saw them as the same but different, but unless there is missing stars or other astrological events I can't think of anything else that would be twined in the sky.
@@awesomeatronik I don't know what etymologists would say, but Mani sounds like Moon, as well as Man. And the moon would be the mortal twin, and also the bovine twin. I would guess a more ancient myth where a female sun kills her brother the moon, probably for incest. This idea is based on myths I have read over the years. Hey, I just had an idea that maybe Mithras kills that bull for some kind of sex crime, you know how bulls mate with women or carry them off in the ancient world. Well, this is getting very far from the content of the video.
Interesting. I wonder what someone like Carl Jung would say about this idea of 1 original myth slowly transmitted to and absorbed by different cultures. Jung was of the idea that these myths were spontaneous products of people independent of other cultures. Thank you for such an information packed video, though.
That is a great question, and one I am asked a lot. And my response to those who do think this is Jungian is that if it was, then why are the names of the characters in the story always the same, Manu, Yemo, and Trito? I would get if the motifs are similar, but the names show it must have diffused rather than have been made up independently. Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave a comment, it is appreciated.
As a former young-Earth creationist and current Christian I am here to remind that the Bible's Genesis 1 story is NOT meant to be taken literally and scientifically.
That is one of the major points of this video. They both come from the same language. Although if that isn't clear, watch my previous video on the Proto Indo Europeans.
I would respectfully recommend the video series by David Talbot, "Symbols of an Alien Sky" and "Discourses on an Alien Sky". Talbot theorizes that all mythology has its origin in cosmology. Working with plasma physicists Talbot purposes the sky of our ancestors was different from the one we see today when the planets were aligned in a polar configuration which featured regular plasma discharges between the heavenly bodies that go much further to explain things like 'the Twins', the 'Ship of Heaven', 'The warrior' 'the Gorgan' and any other mythological archetype you care to name. It is a fascinating journey. The similarities between world myths and religions stems from the same experience which was witnesses globally in the skies. Talbot has sadly passed on but others are continuing his work and research.
Yes yes, please..you mention you are willing to do more about pagan believes focusing on ritual and Christian beliefs focusing on faith. Would you do this video? I remember a Jewish person saying that their religion focused on practice as apposed to the Christians focused on faith. It seems an interesting division between American Christianity and other world religions.
Yes, it will be a challenging video, because it can easily attract a lot of misunderstanding, but I will start work on it in the coming weeks if I can.
At the beginning of this video, you seem to include Genesis with Indo-European myths. This seems to be a mistake, since the contexts of Genesis are Sumerian and Afro-Asiatic mythologies of Mesopotamia, Egypt, and the Levant. Later in the video, you claim that these myths too derive from the Proto-Indo-European myth. It is true that there are some similarities. A storm god contends with a serpent; a man kills his brother. However, the contexts surrounding these elements are vastly different. It is possible that there was some borrowing among cultures in western and central Asia, as you have said in several videos. It is also possible the two mythologies have a common source among the Agriculturalists or Hunter-Gatherers, but both of those predate Proto-Indo-European, and to treat such myths as if they are in the same corpus as Indo-European ones is incorrect. You further complicate matters by drawing Chinese mythology into your net, which is another animal entirely.
I can understand your view, when I first studied the PIE Creation Myth I was skeptical, but have read good evidence from respected scholars supporting this view, and so for now I am happy to go along with it. However, I am willing to be persuaded otherwise and am undertaking some deep research into the serpent myths to find their origins and influence which may help enforce my view, or put me back on the fence. I do provide my references in the video description if you're interested. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
@@Crecganford I'm glad that you put your sources in your description. I have spent the last hour or so reading up on this particular issue. I just find it hard to believe that such a foundational myth would have been developed by Indo-Europeans when there are far older societies struggling with the same universal questions. Thank you for your polite response!
@@bryanjones8079 I'm more than happy to help, we all want to learn more and be assured what we learn is accurate. So if you have any questions or want to talk about those sources then please just ask or email me :)
I would suggest that if there is anything to this idea that Tiamat was originally conceived as a cow it more probably goes back to the origins of agriculture and the domestication of cattle in Mesopotamia. As such it was an indigenous middle eastern Neolithic idea first that was either adopted or independently created by Indo Europeans, later when they themselves became agricultural.
There certainly maybe merit to that, and it is one of the pieces of mythology I am specifically studying to see if there is enough evidence to be persuasive one way or the other.
Loving these videos, I’m not sure if you have came to a community forum yet as still working through your videos, however I am aware that other TH-camrs utilise discord as a suitable forum for open discussion and vote for future videos. I know this as I’m a member of a few TH-camrs discord servers and it appears to work for them. Keep up the good work.
I haven’t a discord yet as I just don’t have the time to manage it right now. But I’ll revisit the option again in a few months. Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave the comment.
@@Crecganford of course, it's all on me. But there's some weird pull I feel from this ancient interconnected cultural origin and you make it so easy to understand it's practically imposible not to binge watch your videos.
Great question. That was me, I considered this for a while and was thinking the name of the king must live on. I could have easily changed it to Gemo, or Yama, or another cognate of the word "twin".
I'm looking to do a live stream? When would be a good day/time to do this?
Sunday service?
My schedule is very free. You're based in the UK, right? I'm in Sweden so we should be very compatible time-wise.
Hey Jon. It turned out to be a busy week. If you are up for a chat tomorrow, send me a mail.
@@ancientbuilds3764 i haven't made it hope! I will be there Monday if you can o that.
@@Crecganford Can do, but it has to remain private.
The creation story reminds me of the creation story of silmarillion. Not in the relationship between entities, but in how it creates good and evil. Tolkien did an amazing job of recreating a natural religion
He did read some of the books I used to do this research, so there may well be similarities :)
@@Crecganford He was also a linguist and would've been well versed in ancient languages and their connection to mythology/religion
Tolkien was a practicing Catholic and also a linguist with a great interest in Germanic and Norse myths. The religion in Middle Earth was deliberately written so that “Eru” has the same attributes as the catholic/Jewish conception of God (and through that an Aristotelian conception). The similarity likely stems from that.
all of the stories of middle earth are tolkiens version of earths history. the Silmarillion is similar to this creation myth because that's where it was literally derived.
Tolkien's world doesn't really have religion in it.
I'm a classicist, so I'm mostly familiar with PIE linguistics and Graeco-Roman mythology, but your comment about how ritual was more important than faith for pagan religions suddenly enlightened my understanding of Greek and Roman beliefs. I already knew from literary sources that people didn't always believe in the gods in the most literal sense, certainly not in later periods, but as long as the rituals were performed, that faith wasn't really required. Which seems to me why accusations of impiety and such only happened when it would affect the rituals and actions. It also matches with some of the discussions that happened in the early centuries of Christianity since in pagan apologetic literature, we can see that they emphasise that the traditional rites should be performed because they have allowed Rome to be safe and powerful for centuries and certainly not done harm, rather than discussing faith (which the Christians do in their apologetic literature).
While some scepticism remains for some of the things you mention based on things I've learned from my professors, there is an incredible richness and depth of research in these videos and they form a very interesting supplement to knowledge I already have.
Thank you watching, and your taking the time to share your thoughts and learning. It is very much appreciated.
@@Crecganford I too appreciate your emphasis on the importance of practice over "faith", something I've noticed many Christian scholars overlook or ignore although Pagan writers are adamantly insistent must be performed. Religions have many similarities, yet are very different from one another. Thank you.
The Romans followed the rituals to the t. If it was incorrect they’d restart.
Wow, nice feedback when taken into the context of the video.
I've noticed a massive departure in religions from older ones - older religions like those of the helenistic era are, as you said, far more secular and ritualistic. I'd often laugh at how the Greeks seemed to have as much disdain for their own gods as their gods often had for them. Zues himself was such a pompous prick... there was no reason to really like him.
The Romans, in particular, were so ritualistic that it defined much of their culture to such a degree that without it? We probably wouldn't know as much about as we do now. Their penitent to record, legalize, legislate, and count EVERYTHING via a Diety ordained Standard Operating Procedure is what helped them be so organized and also so bureaucratic.
However younger religions like Islam and Christianity are far more prophetic and center themselves around Doomsday styled cult memetics. Much of that has to do with an older religion (Judiasm) having its ritual heart (the Temple) being shattered by foreigners of another old ritualistic religion (Romans). To make up for the Broken Covenant, Christianity reforms the Temple and becomes a redemption / revolutionary Faith. Islam is much the same way, a reinvention of an old message, although ritualistic needs is still required more in Islam than an in Christianity. Both new 'Faiths' have holistic goals; an end game if you will - where as the old religions don't. Sure the world may end according to the old religions as well but it's perceived as an inevitable death or rebirth, not as an ascension to a higher plane of being.
It's interesting how the later religions place more value on Faith. Even old Judiasm is very removed from the faith aspect. It focuses far more an actual deeds and following the law (ritualism) than it does blind faith.
This is still true of multiple modern religions. Japanese syncretic religion (a mishmash of Shinto, Buddhism, and Christianity) certainly values the *doing* of rituals above any coherent belief system.
Hecate is often represented as a three-faced or three headed goddess, and she's just one of many forms of the maiden, mother, crone triple goddess in many cultures. The interesting thing about Hecate is that, although she's considered part of the Greek pantheon, she may have pre-Greek origins in Anatolia and she is traditionally associated with snakes.
Yes, she is definitely an earlier representation, and perhaps influences the shape of the serpent in older mythology, with the three-headed six-eyed serpent of NgWhi.
I think there’s something to Morrigan as well, another Goddess who has the faces of multiple gods
Hey guys m trying to learn about Hecate please tell me where can I find more info on her?
The Egyptian gods and the Greek gods are the same. Origin is Anatolia. Hecate might be the Befana of Italy. She starts young early in the year and becomes old. Anna Perenna was the name of the Etruscan godess.
@@peterlokin4098I think he's saying that she was one of the early snake deities that influenced where they would eventually land as a cultural artifact
Much respect for you to even turn down sponsorships and for only doing these videos to educate people. That seems very rare to me. It is very appreciated!
Thank you for watching, and commenting, it all helps the channel :)
Hi, good video. Purusha in Rigveda is also called Manu (Shraddhadeva Manu) and his twin brother is Yama. And get this, Manu is considered to have built a boat when warned by a fish that a great deluge is coming and thereby saved the 7 sages, so Manu is somehow associated as Noah and Gilgamesh. Yama in RigVeda is the first mortal and hence considered the lord of afterlife like hades.
Hence why humans are sometimes called Manavas.
@@manh9105 yeah but the similarity just doesn't seem coincidental, our creation story plausibly influenced the people who later on migrated deep into the European wetlands from eastern europe, Eastern Europe Caucuses are fairly easy to reach and have historically been places of multiethnic presence
@@manh9105 every manavantara has a a Manu. That's why it's called Manavantara to begin with.
@frzferdinand More commonly 'manushya', which is widely used as the word for humans in a lot of Indian languages.
@@manh9105
"Our Cosmology is Humungous"
Just like every other religion ever. LMAO
In 4 years of almost daily youtube use, you are UNDOUBTABLY one of the greatest channels I have discovered, I feel lucky, like I've struck gold, to have found your channel. You combine multiple modes of thought into holistic, engaging, intuitive understanding. For me, the greatest part of your comprehensive explanations is that they let us all appreciate the magnificent scope of our sacred, precious humanity. Listening to you talk is like watching a tapestry get woven together, as threads of ideas become one whole, beautiful masterpiece.
Thank you so much for taking the leap of faith and starting to make these videos, and thank you so much for continuing this great work, and putting so much valuable education out into the ether for us all, thank you Crecganford!!!
Thank you so much for your kind words, and for watching. Please feel free to ask questions or make suggestions, they are always appreciated.
You may enjoy listening to terence mckenna he passed in 2000 sadly but he had an amazing mind and ability with language
I would rather watch your videos than watch the news!! You speak with an honest objectivity. You are such a wonderful alternative. Simple facts. Please keep this up. You ARE doing a wonderful service in these times of ego and stupidity.
Thanks for your kind words John
@teachers Thank you, I do teach, and therefore it would not be in my interest to make these dogmatic, or anything other than factual. So I appreciate people noticing this.
Yes, I really appreciate the level of objectivity.
@teachers same with the left wing Marxist nuts trying to turn everything into a class warfare.
@teachers yes, and the "white-pride" flavor of them is downright disturbing, too!
I happened to run across this channel by mistake on Monday, and have spent my lunch break this entire week watching nothing but your episodes. Many thanks for such a thorough, engaging, and cerebral series!
Wow, thank you, and sorry if I’ve messed up your week a little! I hope you subscribe and watch more in the future.
@@Crecganford No apologies required at all. Extremely happy I found your channel! Already subscribed, but I do have one question, if you would allow. Would you suggest watching your videos from a chronological order in how you uploaded them, or watching them based on topics?
But thank you so much for taking the time to reply!
There are no mistakes. Only happy accidents.
Thank you for the careful put subtitles and chapters. As someone who really wants to study all of that, it is a great help. 😊
Love seeing motifs that translate into later cultures. I can't help but think of Seth and Osiris when manus is dismembering his brother. Also can't help but think of tiamat in regards to a serpent monster being the antagonist. Also tiamat again in the using of a divine body to create the heavens and the earth. Hearing these PIE myths really is like reading part of our cultures genome
Yes, the beginning myths of many cultures are very similar, and I will talk about these more in my next video. Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment.
@@Crecganford nah thank you man. I quickly becoming a very big fan of the channel.
This has to be the best video i have seen on my life. Life takes a decisive turn after this. Thank you so much.
Thank you for your kind words.
I am a contemporary Volva, German-American and Indigenous First Person pagan. Your videos are the best out on European mythology, art, craft, and practice. Your demeanor in your presenting is tactful, respectful, and poignant. Your ideas and discussion resonate well with me, friend.
Thank you
based
I'm very interested in getting some help from a volva, as I have not found any in Australia. Can I contact you in some way? ,thanks
@@redwolf7929 What is your Facebook if you don't mind sharing here? Would need to vet your Facebook and decide if I can send you a friend request and use messanger from there. You can share the profile link with me then delete it from the comments.
Grateful that I found your channel
The sheer amount of hardwork you put into these.
And the respect you have for all cultures you discuss is staggering.
However, as an Indian, I want to point out that in Vedic Culture, Manus is *Manu* and Yemos or Ymir is *Yama*
Thank you
Latin Remus is also related to Yama and Ýmir through Yemos.
not the same manu we know, we know it through manusriti , the political book . i think here manu is more of a divine being, probably manus has directly become manav or manush is our languages
I can't believe Enma is Ymir. Insane honestly
I can't believe Enma is Ymir. Insane honestly
Don't ever stop. Yes, I have enjoyed it. Whatever you do. Keep doing it!!
You have a gift for storytelling and information sharing. Thank you so much for these videos !
And thank you for your kind words
Thanks for the video. Now that I'm disabled, I watch lots of TH-cam quite a bit. I watch conservative non-fundamentalist Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Theravada Buddhist, secular History and Science, and mythology videos
Your channel falls nice into my sphere of interest, so I subscribed. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment. I always appreciate feedback like this and hope you enjoy my other videos.
Hey man I just found your videos I think your channels great, as far as keeping in touch with the fans im not sure how to help but I just wanted to say I think the way you're presenting everything is perfect. Glad to hear you're not taking funding, I wouldn't want anything to influence the way you can present this information. Keep up the good work, man, its helping me a lot and I think you're a great story teller
I have just started a Patreon, but it won’t effect my work, but it will allow me to get a few extra books every now and then. But I won’t ever take a sponsorship or advertising, that would spoil things. Anyway, thanks for watching and your kind words.
The sumerians and Egyptians have similarities to these too, I think the creation myth is a lot more common in general points of narration elements and continuity than PIE and near east, but that's just the abrahahmic philosopher in me talking.
Rituals are extremely important, in abrahahmic terms they would call that law/Torah, to keep the physical world in harmony we must have actions of the universal laws/"works", to keep the spiritual world in harmony we must have faith, that is a very old esoteric concept.
High, Just-as-High, and Third... From Gylfaginning, where Odin disguised as "Gangleri", describes three figures sitting upon thrones; 'High upon the lowest, Just-As-High on the mid-highest, and Third on the highest of the thrones.' The three-figure motif is replete across I-E culture! Love this.
Yes, I talk about that passage in my next video, showing the analogues in the actually texts, including the Prose Edda
hmmm this checks out Greek Zeus Poseidon and Hades Indian Vishnu Shiva and bradma roman Jupiter potoe and Neptune although I'm not sure about Celtic and Germanic.
Its crazy how for like 12k years we are still doing remakes
It’s a remix!
I have to say I very much enjoy the focus on Indo-European history and comparative mythology that seems to be the mainstay of this channel.
This is the second video on the channel that I've watched and it has become apparent that it is very much worth subscribing, as I love history and all of the various sciences that flow from such, be they mythological, religious, cultural, or linguistic studies.
Thank you so much for your kinds words, and supporting the channel.
@@Crecganford It is I that must thank you for your contributions to the breadth of historical knowledge available on this platform.
I look forward to more presentations and discussions, hopefully for a long time to come.
PS: As a side-note, the subtitles are appreciated and I've referred to them quite a few times for clarity (especially when there were other noises in the room - such as my fan on these hot summer days).
Discord is great for community management. I'd definitely recommend that. I enjoy all your videos. Ty as always
About the question at the end, I'm a youtube guy and I'm not used to other platforms, besides Reddit, but this is me personally.
A discord could be better/more organized than the previous ones, and people probably wouldn't mind downloading it to ask questions/read a discussion about a topic they are interested on. 🤔
Thank you for your thoughts, and for watching
Thank you! Great academic content! ❤
Thank you.
One of my favourite new channels.
Thank you so much for making these videos and sharing your knowledge.
PS. Book reviews are a GREAT idea. There is so much bad stuff out there so it would save people some money knowing if the book is worth it and plus you could put Amazon links in the description so you could make a few quid too.
I still haven’t managed to get around to do a book review, but I will, so many people are asking for them. Leave it with me, and thanks for watching, and commenting
Just found this older video. Apparently, you've been doing excellent work for a while now.
Just found this channel. Good work. With your apparently deep understanding of linguistics, i think a video by you about the story of the tower of babel would be super interesting.
No one has suggested that before, that is an interesting idea. I shall add it to my To Do list, thank you for your suggestion.
You really do a great job of presenting these fascinating things in plain and understandable language.
With thanks from the other side of the world (assuming you are still in the UK).
Your calm and level style of presenting is even ore attractive as I only have time to listen just before bedtime.
Thank you, from the UK.
What’s really cool about the sacrifice of Yemo is… that’s kind of actually what happened. Shortly after the earth first formed, another smaller planet that we now call Theia crashed into it, half of Theia merging with the Earth, and half breaking off to form the moon. So if we consider Manus to be the earth and Yemo to be Theia, then it kind checks out. That’s kinda cool
That's a very interesting point. It's curious how we can correlate some of the oldest myths and still find bits and pieces that actually check out with nature, that were impossible for the peoples that first told them to knew about.
There's the case of the pacific north-west people who, tell the story of a recurring flood myth that was always preceded by an earthquake. Recent geologic and archeologic excavations confirm the stories, because of activity in the Cascadia Fault Zone there were tsunamis hitting the coasts every 200-500 years and the first one (the mythical one) corresponds with a mega Earthquake that happened 1700 years ago.
@@kernell__ There are also multiple European and Middle Eastern flood myths that seem to reflect various historical flood events, such as the filling of the Persian Gulf, the flooding of the Black Sea, a tsunami in the Indian Ocean caused by a meteor strike, etc. Some theorise they originated in ancient stories passed down through oral tradition, while others think that it could have come from humans finding shells and fossils of sea creatures far from the sea, and therefore concluding that the land must have flooded in ancient times.
And Just like that! Another creation myth was born.
@@BambiTrout Or. As human societies settled near water, rivers, lakes the coast. And as rivers tend to have seasonal floods. And as these vary according to all sorts of weather variations with some being disastrous. Oral history wont have been needed as they experienced floods regularly.
Those people didn’t know what we know now, so it’s purely coincidence that one of the abundance of creation myths appears to have some truth in it. The best way to describe these coincidences is that saying about a broken clock.
In Gustave Flaubert's < Salammbô > novel, set in the aftermath of the first punic war, at Carthage, the priestess of Tanith narrates to the mercenaries the story of "Melkarth" (Hercules/Mythra ?), who did great deeds and adventures, such as climbing the highest mountains, fighting a great war against a rival kingdom... and slaying snake-woman (dragon/hydra ?), which is pretty much the same story, with differences, than those of Hercules, Siegfried or even Cadmos, Perseus, Jason and Gilgamesh. Could we say, judging by these elements, that Hercules's twelve tasks are a sort of "old" indo european myth about a king or a prince, that was transform, through some modifications ? And same question for the myth of Remus and Romulus.
It's fascinating to see how one story is rewritten and developped, complexified, through the passing time, and to one culture from another. I think even us, little people, can see some links and resemblances, but it's always fascinating, even after years and years of study, to see how one story passed through time and became a full mythology. ^^
Thank you for watching, and yes, I quote Herakles and Hercules, and others, in other Indo-European myths such as they follow the same dragon slaying story. When you start realising that so many stories and so related to so many others, then it really opens up a whole new realm of understanding about how our ancestors interacted with each other. My next video, out on Saturday, talks more about this and the dragon myths which may interest you.
Melqart is Marduk/Merodach, which was the influence to build Hercules/Heracles
I think they are so similar because they are all based on constellations. Stories were first told to keep track of seasons, but then the personifications turned them into stories of adventure.
12000 year disaster cycle keeps wiping us out.. It's been 12000 years since the last one
Thank you for these videos. I cant get enough.
It's my pleasure.
I love the idea of you providing book reviews in future videos! They could possibly also be delivered as curated top 5 or 10 pieces of literature that you recommend for learning more about a specific topic you cover in one of your other educational videos.
The TH-cam algorithm seems to favor top # lists and I think so many more people on this platform are hungry for more knowledge and insight that can be drawn from ancestral wisdom.
Yes, I will look into this, maybe as a supplementary video… I have so many books I probably could make a years worth of videos reviewing. I guess that means I guess that also means I should start sooner rather than later
This was a fantastic video. Thanks for including so much detail
And thank you for watching.
I have Anglo-Irish ancestors who obviously would have been influenced by Germanic beliefs and as such derivatives of the Proto-European mythology. You are right in saying that where there are cognates and similar motifs in creation myths you can safely say that they come from the same source. I live in Mindanao Philippines now and I have noticed the similarities in the creation myths of the Visayan and Tagalog people. The common thread is always a bird and bamboo from which the first man and woman emerge. There are variations beyond this but those key elements remain.
Now that is interesting, I love it when stories seem to link like that. Thank you for sharing.
@@Crecganford I think that just as cows were important to the Proto-Indo-European people, so bamboo was here in the Philippines. It was, and still often is, a major building material. Traditional houses called "Bahay Kubo" in Tagalog (Filipino), and "Payag" in Binisaya (Cebuano) were almost exclusively made from bamboo with roofs made from cogon grass or coconut palm leaves. Often the houses were raised on stilts, and entry was via a ladder made of bamboo. Workers around where I live often use bamboo ladders made in the traditional style. They have a higher tensile strength than steel or aluminum yet are light to carry. Of course, young bamboo shoots are part of the cuisine too. It makes sense that the first man and woman must have come from bamboo!
@@gaufrid1956 Celtic mythology is also Indo-European, so your ancestors would have been immersed in the Indo-European creation myths in both the Germanic form through the Germanic Anglo-Saxons, and the Celtic form through the Celtic Irish and Britons. Probably some Germanic Norse in there too.
@@willmosse3684 Sure! I remember my dad telling me that his side of the family also had some German ancestors. As well, my maternal grandfather's surname was "Bone", which was derived from the Norman French "Bonne", "Good". That obviously means that I had Norman ancestors as well.
@@gaufrid1956 Well, the Normans were descended from Danish Vikings, so you have the Norse Germanic branch there too…
How wonderful that you love to teach. I have found that there is a lot of junk on TH-cam presenting unsupported conformation biases. Great to see well researched pieces with 😅authentic information. I have been watching your videos along with a couple of others that treat with similar time frames that support the idea you can expand your information on the topics presented with confidence that the author of the video has done real work to get the available facts. Bravo.
Thank you! I just bumped into this from the yt recommendations, and oh my did I find a treasure trove! This is exactly the stuff I want to learn more of, and your presentation hits me just right.
As for questions, I am a Finn, and interested in the origins of finnic peoples and myths, and I wondering how they fit into PIE? As far as I know, finnish has some connection to sanskrit, and by my understanding the myths and peoples originated somewhere on the western Ural, but where did they come from to there? We have an old god Perkele, whose name is still on every Finn's lips when they get pissed off or frustrated, who is a storm god derived from Perkunas, but the heroes of our national epic Kalevala are mostly poem-singers, and our word for hero, sankari, comes from swedish word sjungare meaning singer.
Thank you for watching, and the great comment. It is very much appreciated!
I can't say for sure if Finnish people or culture descended from Proto-Indo-European peoples or cultures, but I can say that the Finnish language is not at all Indo-European; it's part of a small and completely different group called Finno-Uguric.
This is such a good video. Thank you for your time, effort, research, and sharing your knowledge. You are a great teacher.
Thank you for your kind words, they are appreciated.
Great presentation. I have a question about the composite of the myth you presented at the beginning,; there were a couple of things that are different both from versions you have in earlier videos, and things I have read.
*A)* In this version you say that the first twin _(*Manu)_ sacrifices the second twin _(*Yemo),_ - _to the chief diety/skyfather,_ who in return furnishes the materials/capabilities for constructing the cosmic order. In the original versions I have heard, and in your previous presentations it just appeared that _*Manu_ sacrifices _*Yemo,_ without dedication to any of the other deities, and constructs the cosmic order out of his body parts/essence (the actual offering the sacrifice to the sky/storm god only happening later with _*Trito_
Is there any particular reason why you went with this version? Is there good evidence for one or the other being the original / older variant?
*B)* In this version you say that _*Trito_ is the first created man, who then goes on to become the first warrior. In other versions, and previous videos, it is usually said that he is actually the last of the three cosmic brothers (hence "third"). Which conception is generally considered to be more accurate?
*C)* I guess kind of a corollary to the one above, but this seems to be a bit confused by the fact that _*Manu_ is also referred to as the first created man. Is there some meaningful distinction made between the "humanness "of the Divine Twins versus mwn after were typing in other words are they human progenitors, are they a distinct category, more akin to deities (and if so, is _*Trito_ considered to be "of a kind" to them, or in the "lesser" group)
Sorry if this is a bit of a long and involved question for a comments section, but my curiosity is getting the better of me.
I'm not sure I can easily answer this in the space a TH-cam comment provides, and in my next video I'll release on September 4th, I'll answer this fully as I retell the story with some "tweaks". But to answer... the other versions I have told were abridged for time purposes, but I wanted to give the idea of the myth. The gods had to be created, and they could not be created by the King or Man, and so like other Indo-European myths, I felt the creation of them in the cosmos fitted. Trito, by first man, I should say first not sovereign man, but it didn't quite have the flow of the story, but I'll clarify that in next week's retelling. And part c is complicated :) So for Yemo to be sacrificed to make the world he must be divine, as no human could provide enough material to create the world. But he also appears in many myths as "human", and so we just have to put this down to the flexibility of myth telling, and the same applies to Manus. But I will try and firm up the myth in the next video and provide a lot more explanation of why. And so I hope you can watch that. Many thanks for a great question or three :)
The theme of a person who is both a man and a god seems to continue or reappear in some versions of Christianity.
Diety
adjective
Good for a diet
Deity
noun
A god or goddess.
I must say Im a huge fan of the first man literally being named "Mannus" and the idea that "mankind" all descends from him
And Manus can be thought to mean earth, so all men came from the earth as opposed to the gods in the heavens. It's a very earthly and natural story to explain things.
In ancient Sanskrit (or 'Samskrt,' as the correct name goes) literature, the first man is (Svaayam-bhuva) Manu. (Svaayam-bhuva means 'self-originated,' so it is more like a title.) 'Manu' is still a very, very common name for men in India, same as 'Adam' in Judeo-Christian societies. The term for human beings, homo sapiens, in all Indian languages (both Indo-European and Dravidian) is 'Manushya.' The literal meaning of Manushya is 'descendants of Manu.'
Manu not Mannus. The word Manush comes from it (Mannus makes it sound Greek). Manu was also the source of much of the caste bigotry you see to this day, so hardly someone to look up to.
Yes, Manu is the PIE word, and the s was added as the myth headed into Europe. But Manu also turned into Odin, Romulus, and even Purusa is a form of him…
@@ColtraneTaylor 1. The spirit in which we (this channel and the community that follows it) explore ancient myths is to consider them a treasure of cultural information. It is not to find gods or role models to look up to. This latter spirit is exclusive to zealots both religious and anti-religious (the Marxist and critical theory types). The religious, of course, sincerely draw values and role models from scripture. The anti-religious are more interesting: they have an unhealthy obsession with the most uncharitable readings of ancient thought, and seem to suffer from the delusion that anybody with a remotely positive disposition towards ancient thought must draw all their values from it, and must therefore be old-fashioned and narrow-minded.
2. You're referring to the manu smrti, which indeed contains casteist and otherwise reprehensible teachings. It is a specific moral doctrine from a specific period of ancient India. And names in the Indian tradition are commonly repeated across periods, genres and schools of thought. So, the manu of manu smrti need have nothing whatsoever to do with the mythical manu cognate with the PIE manus.
So, by mentioning that Pūrūsa means man, you unlocked for me the enigma as to why Latin has virus for man instead of a word based on m-n. Virus and Purus are close and the P changes to fricative very easily (Phurus). Greatly appreciated!
In Sanskrit "Virya" literally means semen.
@@akalrove4834 well it seems our forefathers were pragmatic and named things according to their principal features. I keep saying that even English “woman” is made of “womb” & “man”. Which is genius and waking up to this would save many evil arguments of gender crusaders, because it kinda proves that both women and men are men (shifting the meaning of word “man” towards “human”), just one of them has a life giving womb (which was apparently much more important and precious to our predecessors).
In Sanksrit vira means hero, that seems like a more likely connection
@@rexsceleratorum1632 oh that is I guess a normal process: vira in the "man" meaning went its own way towards more specialized hero. But that is within one and the same ancestor language. Perhaps that is the reason why it changed to Purusa for just "man"? And the vira might have meant man originally in sanskrit ancestor language. But I guess the basic words like these are very well researched in the pre-IE language. So I don't want to search - for me a revelation is already the origin of Latin "virus".
@@Alarix246 Widely different forms such as purusha and vira seem unlikely to be from the same root unless one of the forms was later borrowed from a (rather distantly) related language. Both forms can't obviously obey the same set of sound laws.
You're doing a great work!
Thank you
So are you!
I want your library! All of it! I am in the process of writing a SF/Fantasy series, and need to devise mythologies for at least two alien cultures. Understanding how such myths work will be a great help. Thank you for all your hard work.
I think there's a queue building for it so I'll leave you all to fight it out when I'm gone :) and please bear in mind that you have only seen about 10% of it! Good luck with your series, I think one of the biggest secrets to myths, is that not only are they built on truths, they are often built on the truths of other cultures before them. Which really gives some exciting plot possibilities of lost civilizations, and the civilizations their myths were based on.
Fantastiskt! Det märkas att du älskar att undervisa. Tack!
Tack Tack!
I came, I watched, I subscribed.
Keep up the great content! 👍
Thank you!
awesome. thank you
very much, i have been searching for this kind of content.
And thank you for your kind words, and for watching the video.
It's fascinating to see how our ancestors conceived of the universe!
They had a greater understanding than we do today
@@ghostpatriot2370 nope, no they did not. It's about time we stop romanticizing the past and see it factually for what it is.
@@ghostpatriot2370 LMMFAO, not even close! We don't live on the back of a turtle, we don't live under a dome on a pizza-shaped disk, and we didn't once have dragons flying around, either! Nor did we get very healthy advice from some of those sources, either - not washing one's hands before eating isn't really a great idea. 😄😄😄😄
Another wonderful video as usual
Thank you
Very interesting work! I just point out the stark departure between the stories you tell and the book of Genesis. Genesis stands alone among all world wide creation myths in that God exists outside of time and space and is not temporally created out of some type of existing matter. God creates all things from outside space time by speaking everything into existence ex nihilo. No twins, no cattle, no monsters, no raiding, no antics between created gods fighting, mating, or raping each other.
You should watch my video on the earliest creation myth, as in the beginning there was nothing, not even gods.
I love that the leader had to sacrifice himself to keep the people safe and abundant. This way any idiot who thinks he should be in charge must die so the rest of us can be at peace. The good ol days, the good ol days
Interesting stuff mate
Thank you, and thanks for watching :)
Why don't you mention the indespicable narrations mentioned in Vedas? You tactfully avoided them. Very clever chap.
Will you help me discover what you're talking about?
And why do you assume there was intent behind that? Why does everyone assume there is an agenda behind everything and HAS to be malicious?
I'm new to your channel and I'm am so impressed by the breadth of your knowledge. I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell's work. I'd love to hear longer videos if you can. Like 50+ minutes or even longer. You're amazing!!
Thank you for your kind words.
Hi John. I really love & appreciate your videos. I would recommend creating a Discord server. It has great tools for your purpose & is easy to set up & maintain. Thanks again for sharing your vast knowledge with us!
I may do this in July, I have a server setup, but I just won’t have the time to manage it until then.
'Manu' is also a priest in Indian Vedic stories related to a Myth about great flood. And 'Manus' is also a word in Sanskrit and some Western Indian languages which means man. But I don't know if they are related to Creation Myth or not.
I was also watching to know the Indian myth, because I am an Indian. So it was a little dissatisfying that you didn't included it.
There are a number of flavours of creation myth within the Vedas and it would need at least two videos to cover them. But I'm happy to do this if there is demand.
@@Crecganford I recently watched your other video "Comparative Mythology for Indo-European creation myth", where you explained the myth related to Indian Vedas. I loved it. Although I would love to have a more detailed explanation, but I am not sure how many Indians will be interested.
Also it was my first time learning that there was such creation myth in Hinduism. Since they are kind of forgotten and replaced with more believable myths.
@@Crecganford yes make them bro, 2 vids atleast
Loved watching and will definitely watch more
Thank you.
Very Illuminating.
My take is that the creation myth was not so much an Origination Myth but a story telling the history of transition from Matriarchal to Patriarchal Society, the Thrice headed serpent would be the female Ruling Council, the Virgin, the Mother the Crone. veneration of the Cow (not the Bull) was represented by the river of Milk (the Milky way) and the constellation Boötes, In Greek, & SHU.PA. in Sumerian, which could also be considered the great river that needed to be crossed in death, probably the Matriarchal society was sedentary and agricultural but as the Younger Dryas came on, the need for migration became necessary as the ice sheets spreed. and so domestication of the horse was required to move herds long distance. Also the danger involved in picking up your society and transporting it long distances probably meant that a transfer of power occurred as the men were more necessary for protection from the wild things that lived out there in the forests and plains.
I think that as we moved across the landscape it was very important to understand the movement of the stars just like sailors. And a lot of these myths are also mental maps of the earth reflective of what was happening in the sky.
The question is, were all Sacrifices, Blood Sacrifices, some ancient cultures may have considered Menstruation, and Birth as Sacrifice, Ma can be seen as the root word for female and so does not necessarily represent the masculine, so the first MA-n, Mother gave birth (sacrificed her singularity) to Twins. she gave a part of herself to become Two, in Matriarchal society all spiritual people in the society like priests and shaman were female, (even today the majority of Shaman these old cultures are female).
Sorry, Rambling..
Interesting thoughts, I enjoy reading how others consider it. There are so many variables as we go back it is really difficult to prove what came from what, but will ponder your thoughts. Thank you
Interesting concepts, but from the linguistic point of view, "Man" in Indo-European (as in the Latin: Maniple "A handful") likely means "beings with hands" or "those with hands", since most Eurasians had never seen other primates, the only beings with hands they had seen were Humans. So "Man" literally means "Those with hands" as opposed to animals without any kind of hand. Interesting in many Indo-European languages "Man" is not sex specific. In Old English (Anglo-Saxon) for example females were known as "Wif-man": meaning "weaving person", while men were called "Weap-man" meaning an "armed person". Wif-man later became "Wife" and the term "Women" in English is also derived from similar designators.
@@simonmoorcroft1417 I lean more towards the "man means earth" approach, due its mortal inference when compared to the "sky father" deity. I think I may touch on this at the end of the PIE video I did a couple of weeks ago. But no theory has yet been proven beyond doubt, it is just my preference.
@@Crecganford Yes I agree. The ideas are not really mutually exclusive. I just followed the linguistics, after all this is how religious concepts were transmitted before the invention of writing. Man as "earthly" and distinct from the "divine" pops up a lot in Indo-European religions.
The phrase "those with hands" also divides humans from mere animals of course in a similar manner. After all animals cannot speak, nor perform rituals to honour the gods.
The concept of humans being more important and more "divine" than mere animals also appears, but becomes more emphasised by later religious beliefs, where people become more separated from the land.
As language develops, meanings change and it is likely that "Man" has both a literal meaning and a spiritual meaning. It is possible that the word itself predates PIE itself having origins in the Palaeolithic.
Love this channel. Thank you for your knowledge and for sharing it to us. I think that if I had this information and a better appreciation for mythology. I don’t think that my time as a Christian would have been a lot shorter.
Manuš means man in Romani, an Indian-Aryan language. Perkele (I presume from Perkunas) is a word we use in Finnish for the devil. I haven’t finished watching the video so there maybe more comments coming!
In India, Man is called Manushya. In Assamese, branch of Indo-Aryan, man is literally just Manuh.
@@stynershiner1854 That’s the plural for manush in some Romani dialects
what a Gem on the almighty TH-cam algorithm. Love and light from Alava!
Ritual is key: it‘s interesting to note that that aspect has reverberated also through Vedic (in India) and Confucian (in China) teachings that seem to have defend the ‚traditional way of adhering to (forms of) rituals‘ against other, competing views.
Yes, I agree
This is so beautiful, thank you for sharing the stories and all the research that went into this. This feeds the soul
Yes, there is a HUGE steppe component in "ProtoIndoEuropean" culture, but do not overlook the linguistic evidence for a forest and foothill origin of the people as well: terms for trees (e.g., birch, maple, ash, pines and other conifers, the many prunus species) and for animals (e.g., beaver, fox, wolf, deer, bear) have cognates in all the PIE language daughters.
Great video very informative thank you for your work.
Most informative video I have watched in forever!
Thank you for such a massive compliment, and thank you for watching.
Thank you, this was a brilliant video! Definitely do more videos about PIE religion ❤
There will be more, I've been a bit distracted lately, but soon. Thank you for watching.
I'd not say that they come from the proto-religion in such broad terms, rather that the vocabulary and images are drawn from the proto-religion.
Did you write your rendition of this reconstructed tale? If so amazing job. Would love to see a book one day of all these tales in a consecutive mythology.
I love how the myth is basically a challange against the Enthropy, against Death and Chaos.
The word for "earth/land" is "Erets".
The pictographs given is an OX HEAD, the head of a man, and a road.
The ox walking with a man down a road or an ox leading a man down a road is a few ways it can be envisioned.
It means also name wise symbolically a divine or heavenly thing with or leading a man down a road or making him from a trail is how Hebrews saw what it means to have earth (a mnemonic perhaps of the creation of man from earths dust and how the nature of cows, man, and trails of earthen substance interact and mimic this.
Just found this channel , I studied the Kabbalah under A Jewish Hereditary Kohain , studied the Zohar and other texts with him , There were many mystery’s revealed in our times of study together , my own teacher also studied under James Kirche who studied under Jung , dream interpretation was central to what we do, his passed 6 years ago now at 82 years old . One of the teachings that sticks out to me at this moment comes from the Zohar which said before there was a Torah in Israel , we had a Torah of Creatures . I Appreciate all teachers of the ancient ways
Thank you for watching, and for taking the time to write such an interesting comment.
It would be more likely that Yemo is woman, and died giving birth to Trito. Here you would have the Priest/Druid, Mother/Queen and Warrior/Chieftain of the Celts/Gaels and holy three, Skyfather, EarthMother and Water, the underworld.
Whilst that makes sense to think that, the Yemo figure is often able to reproduce without help. But maybe before the Manu/Yemo figures, there was a Manu/Wīf combination. That would make sense in particular circumstances.
Insightful. A primal experience that affected everyone. Pain and loss mythologized and given significance.
Is that your work or is there a source?
Thank you.
I like your content, and I just subscribed, but the choppy audio is a little abrasive. Is there any way you can address that? I hope you continue to produce quality work like this!
Yes, of course, I'll always try to improve things. And thanks for watching and subscribing
Very informative indeed - keep up the good work
Thank you
Even today's word MAN comes from Manu.. since Hinduism aka Sanatan Dharma is the oldest culture in the world.. the answer is quite clear..
Gemini twins checking in, thanks for the videos mate.
And thank you for watching
In India, Manus (Manu) is light. Yemos(Yama) is darkness. Born out of time. "The Holy Cow" is the material basis of this world.
As someone who is in the process of déconstruction from conservative Christianity, and learning that foundational biblical stories like creation, come from creation myth's handed down from generation to generation since the dawn if time, helps me sooooo much! I must also say that incredible to me that these myths are so old and yet people still believe them. I'm not sure if i should be horrified or impressed or maybe a bit of both.
Brilliant channel. No meme nonsense and slow educational style
I would like to know more about the origin and meaning of the snakes/dragons in the myths, and if there is a connection between the snakes of old norse myths et cetera and the dragon myths in Asia.
Yes, this is something I'm researching right now, and will make a video when I feel I have enough good evidence to support it. This is a really interesting topic, and goes back many thousands of years.
Snakes and serpents are associated with the earth, in the "war" between earth and sky.
@@Sinsteel we also see in some of these myths that the heavenly bull/slain serpent is owned by a chief goddess or the primordial serpent itself is a female, and we also know from non IE Europeans that they worshipped chiefly a chthonic female deity, for instance the Basque people still hold this memory.
It could be that this is an very old memory of two vastly distinct people groups in conflict, or in fact the IE springing forth from this original mythology and distinguishing themselves, like how the Israelites separated from the canaanites albeit far more drastically
Dragons in Eastern Asian mythologies are more generally spirits of the Earth
Look in Mesopotamia and India. Between Abraham and Brahma, thats where they all connect.
Another excellent video.many thanks
Thanks Hengist!
Interesting video, though I am not fully convinced of the connection between Indo-European myth into the Bible's account (or even its supposed evolution into other mythos). It seems more like a case of correlation does not equal causation. As it is entirely possible that each developed relatively isolated from one another, unlike modern day where information is at your finger tip. I still enjoyed hear about the myth and respect what your attempting to accomplish based on your studies. :)
I will dive into Genesis more soon, to explain it's mythological roots, and will say the Mesopotamian cultures influenced Indo-European beliefs as much as the other way around.
There is very ancient creation tale in Ukraine called "Egg Heaven" (Яйце Райце). It is very similar to this PIE myth. Also there are tales about three-headed serpent, that was defeated by Hero.
discord is probably the best bet for a community , your best bet is to contact someone with an existing large server and ask what is good to know regarding moderating such a thing mind
Thanks, I think the moderation is still a problem, and so I have started a Patreon, which allows me to share additional information and have people ask me questions. I will however review this situation at the end of the year.
Hi @Crecganford. If the Sumerian creation myth is related to the Indoeuropean one there should/could be linguistic parallels. A Kurdish researcher, Soran Hamarash, provided compelling evidence that Sorani Kurdish is related to Sumerian (which therefore is not a died out language). As a consequence of this, the geographical origin of Proto-Indoeuropean would rather be Anatolia than the Pontic Steppe. Please look into this although it might look odd. I love your videos. Best, Andreas
I have studied Sumerian, vocabulary, grammar, phonology and the other main aspects of a language, though there isn't a single thing about the language that reminds me of Gothic, Latin, Greek or any other Indoeuropean language I familiar with in any way at all.
I have read about Kurdish scholars arguing wether the Hattians, Hurrians or the Sumerians are ancestral to the Kurds.
The problem is, some preserved Hattic, Hurrian and Sumerian substrate vocabulary might exist, though probably sourced via a Semitic language like Akkadian, maybe Elamite.
But that doesn't make Kurdish, Hurrian and Sumerian part of a common language family, in the scientific sense of the term, at all.
Akkadian, Elamite, Kurdish, Sumerian, Hattic and Hurrian, each one of those languages is from a distinct language family. Elamite is either isolated or Dravidian.
Assuming Kurdish as Indoeuropean, it probably is instead distantly related to Akkadian, as Old Kurdish and Akkadian share a considerable amount of morphology AND also a numeral, but make no mistake, either attribute should be assumed as mere chance,
as for example the similarities in grammar between Hattic, Sumerian and Hurrian are evident, but are almost exclusively constructional, meaning superficial and basic, so hardly any inflections, pronouns or stuff of that kind, are shared.
Following this logic of EMEĞIR = KURDI, Kurdish should be classed as creole language based on a Basque substrate, with a Georgian superstrate (which obviously is bullshit, but just to demonstrate).
You're not really trying to argue, Kurdish isn't Indoeuropean? If so, what is then?
Sumerian is rare considered as extremely distantly related to Indoeuropean, maybe, but that's really nothing to emphasise study on - Indoeuropean and Hurrian are likely closer, the most up to date hypothesis goes as follows:
Kurds are the descendants of the Hurrians, who entered Mesopotamia either together with the Aryans or the Sumerians, and the Hurrians influenced Indoeuropean even before it split into the different branches like Celtic, Germanic, Aryan etc.
Any chance the twins are a description of Something in the night sky like the hunter story?
And if so best estimation on when pls
@@briananderson2219 It's hard to tell for sure, my own belief at the moment is that this is a pure agricultural thought, and not linked to the heavens. So more to do with families and communities driving this.
@@briananderson2219 the only thing I can think of as being twins in the sky is the sun and moon. I don't know if ancient peoples saw them as the same but different, but unless there is missing stars or other astrological events I can't think of anything else that would be twined in the sky.
@@awesomeatronik I don't know what etymologists would say, but Mani sounds like Moon, as well as Man. And the moon would be the mortal twin, and also the bovine twin. I would guess a more ancient myth where a female sun kills her brother the moon, probably for incest. This idea is based on myths I have read over the years. Hey, I just had an idea that maybe Mithras kills that bull for some kind of sex crime, you know how bulls mate with women or carry them off in the ancient world. Well, this is getting very far from the content of the video.
@@watermelonlalala interestingly solar duties and divinity are tied to horses, so maybe horse vs cow cults.
Great show, thanks, and greetings from Skandinavia Denmark 🇩🇰..
Interesting. I wonder what someone like Carl Jung would say about this idea of 1 original myth slowly transmitted to and absorbed by different cultures. Jung was of the idea that these myths were spontaneous products of people independent of other cultures.
Thank you for such an information packed video, though.
That is a great question, and one I am asked a lot. And my response to those who do think this is Jungian is that if it was, then why are the names of the characters in the story always the same, Manu, Yemo, and Trito? I would get if the motifs are similar, but the names show it must have diffused rather than have been made up independently. Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave a comment, it is appreciated.
As a former young-Earth creationist and current Christian I am here to remind that the Bible's Genesis 1 story is NOT meant to be taken literally and scientifically.
How do you explain that the Indian language shares so many words with almost all European languages.
That is one of the major points of this video. They both come from the same language. Although if that isn't clear, watch my previous video on the Proto Indo Europeans.
I would respectfully recommend the video series by David Talbot, "Symbols of an Alien Sky" and "Discourses on an Alien Sky". Talbot theorizes that all mythology has its origin in cosmology. Working with plasma physicists Talbot purposes the sky of our ancestors was different from the one we see today when the planets were aligned in a polar configuration which featured regular plasma discharges between the heavenly bodies that go much further to explain things like 'the Twins', the 'Ship of Heaven', 'The warrior' 'the Gorgan' and any other mythological archetype you care to name. It is a fascinating journey. The similarities between world myths and religions stems from the same experience which was witnesses globally in the skies. Talbot has sadly passed on but others are continuing his work and research.
Yes yes, please..you mention you are willing to do more about pagan believes focusing on ritual and Christian beliefs focusing on faith. Would you do this video? I remember a Jewish person saying that their religion focused on practice as apposed to the Christians focused on faith. It seems an interesting division between American Christianity and other world religions.
Yes, it will be a challenging video, because it can easily attract a lot of misunderstanding, but I will start work on it in the coming weeks if I can.
Oh wow, the twins are Romulus and Remus and the cow is Audumbla. And they’re also Cain and Abel.
Cain and Abel are more aligned to the divine twins. I will make a video about this one day.
At the beginning of this video, you seem to include Genesis with Indo-European myths. This seems to be a mistake, since the contexts of Genesis are Sumerian and Afro-Asiatic mythologies of Mesopotamia, Egypt, and the Levant. Later in the video, you claim that these myths too derive from the Proto-Indo-European myth. It is true that there are some similarities. A storm god contends with a serpent; a man kills his brother. However, the contexts surrounding these elements are vastly different. It is possible that there was some borrowing among cultures in western and central Asia, as you have said in several videos. It is also possible the two mythologies have a common source among the Agriculturalists or Hunter-Gatherers, but both of those predate Proto-Indo-European, and to treat such myths as if they are in the same corpus as Indo-European ones is incorrect. You further complicate matters by drawing Chinese mythology into your net, which is another animal entirely.
I can understand your view, when I first studied the PIE Creation Myth I was skeptical, but have read good evidence from respected scholars supporting this view, and so for now I am happy to go along with it. However, I am willing to be persuaded otherwise and am undertaking some deep research into the serpent myths to find their origins and influence which may help enforce my view, or put me back on the fence. I do provide my references in the video description if you're interested. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
@@Crecganford I'm glad that you put your sources in your description. I have spent the last hour or so reading up on this particular issue. I just find it hard to believe that such a foundational myth would have been developed by Indo-Europeans when there are far older societies struggling with the same universal questions. Thank you for your polite response!
@@bryanjones8079 I'm more than happy to help, we all want to learn more and be assured what we learn is accurate. So if you have any questions or want to talk about those sources then please just ask or email me :)
The cow mythology makes me think of Mithras and the bull. Does the bill have anything to do with zodiac Taurus and perhaps the entering into Aries?
@@Crecganford What are your thoughts on Survive the Jive’s video?
That was frickin awesome!
BRARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
I would suggest that if there is anything to this idea that Tiamat was originally conceived as a cow it more probably goes back to the origins of agriculture and the domestication of cattle in Mesopotamia. As such it was an indigenous middle eastern Neolithic idea first that was either adopted or independently created by Indo Europeans, later when they themselves became agricultural.
There certainly maybe merit to that, and it is one of the pieces of mythology I am specifically studying to see if there is enough evidence to be persuasive one way or the other.
Loving these videos, I’m not sure if you have came to a community forum yet as still working through your videos, however I am aware that other TH-camrs utilise discord as a suitable forum for open discussion and vote for future videos. I know this as I’m a member of a few TH-camrs discord servers and it appears to work for them. Keep up the good work.
I haven’t a discord yet as I just don’t have the time to manage it right now. But I’ll revisit the option again in a few months. Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave the comment.
Oh noooo... I've fallen down the ancient history rabbit hole.
Tell my wife I love her.
Providing you don't blame me!
@@Crecganford of course, it's all on me.
But there's some weird pull I feel from this ancient interconnected cultural origin and you make it so easy to understand it's practically imposible not to binge watch your videos.
Any significance to the brother at the beginning having the same name as the king in the end?
Great question. That was me, I considered this for a while and was thinking the name of the king must live on. I could have easily changed it to Gemo, or Yama, or another cognate of the word "twin".
@@Crecganford Is that allowed? :)