The ORIGIN for GENESiS is much OLDER than you think
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- The Origins of Genesis discusses the various mythologies the bible uses to create its own story, mythologies from other cultures and older times.
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References:
►Genesis: JPS Torah Commentary
►For other references please see the specific video I have made on these subjects below
►IE Bible
• Genesis (and its Indo ...
►Near East Creation Myth
• The Near East: The OLD...
►Paradise Video
• Your Journey after Dea...
►Death and Immortality
• Adam and Eve is a stor...
►The Creation of the King
• Understanding the Indo...
►Divine Twins
• The Divine Twins (Indo...
►Romulus and Remus
• Proto Indo European Tw...
►Flood myth video
• The Oldest Flood Myth ...
►Oldest Creation Myth
• The OLDEST Creation MY...
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You, sir, are a great storyteller. And the subjects you talk about are spot on. Thank you for your hard work!
Thank you so much for those kind words.
Check is in the mail
@@Crecganford Acho que você deveria explicar melhor a teoria do " deus ACASO" da ciência que diz que não existia nada, mas o nada criou nada e depois do nada veio uma explosão e sem explicação do nada surgiu o tudo, sendo que o fato que do nada não surge nada, mas ainda também o " deus científico ACASO" que por ser depois do nada somente o Acaso são muito detalhistas em tudo que produziram do nada por acaso, essa dupla nada e acaso decidiram criar uma estrela,em volta dela 8 planetas e até que prove o contrário em desses o terceiro planeta decidiram que do nada e por acaso surgiria algo ainda mais complexo a VIDA e do nada o acaso criaram milhões de espécies com muitíssimos detalhes, com muito esmero e até que chegaram há uma espécie que do nada e por acaso criaram com inteligência, consciência e sentimentos, decidiram do nada e por acaso que pra cada espécie, inclusive essa por nada e acaso inteligente, teriam um macho e uma fêmea pra que do nada e por acaso reproduzissem , mas antes o nada e o acaso preparam este terceiro planeta do nada e do acaso pra receber estas espécies tão detalhadamente criadas apesar de vir do nada por acaso, decidiram do nada por acaso criar estações do ano, chuva, frio, calor, cada uma com uma forma, cada uma com seu ambiente, cada uma com seu grupo, cada uma com sua língua, decidiram do nada e por acaso criar um completo sistema genético, que a água salgada é melhor pra controlar o clima, que a água doce é melhor pra beber, enfim como você também está fazendo agora como que você poderia ter surgido do nada por acaso e ao mesmo tempo está conseguindo fazer questionamentos, gostaria de saber sua explicação de como o nada te criou do nada e como o acaso o trouxe até aqui, apesar de por acaso você ser nada
@@Crecganford keep in mind that light is a form of radiation and radiation was present before stars. Yeah, 8+ minutes in and I am still very intrigued even this small error of thought came up.
@@Crecganford hello how can i contact you, i have an amazing book that i think will fascinate you
The Garden of Eden was supposed to be where the Tigris, Euphrates etc flowed out, presumably out from and into the sea, hence 'Eden' was in the Gulf. Was the Expulsion a distant memory of the rising sea level after the last ice age and people being forced to give up the hunter-gatherer lives and forced to take up agriculture to survive? i.e. having to work rather than just wander about naked with their partners in a pleasant, warm, lush environment with all food easily at hand. Sounds like paradise to me.
I have a Very similar theory. In short the garden story is a lamenting of leaving the hunter-gatherer, small tribe life for the life of cities and self.
I had a similar idea that Eden is a folktale of the end of the last goddamn glacial maximum. He could do a short video on that, really.
Archaeologist Juris Zarins suggested this theory in the 1980s. Doing a quick google I see there are a few articles discussing his arguments and evidence.
Eden is described to be in the Zagros mountains. The areas, mountains and 4 rivers of Eden are still there. David Rohl makes a great argument for this in his book legend, the genesis of civilization. Highly recommended.
I think genesis tells the story of bloodlines/tribes that came out of them mountains into Mesopotsmia and the fertile crescent at the dawn of the neolithic revolution.
Rohl shows some very convincing evidence of historical truths in the book of Genesis. Highly recomended
Nah, people always feel like the hardship of the world are somehow a punishment.
Man this channel is so underrated. Your deep understanding of your subject is fascinating. Kudos to you and your outstanding content 👏👏
Thank you so much.
That deep understanding is purely an individual belief, an opinionated understanding from one’s point of view, an overall conclusion from the bits and pieces taken which formed an idea of what the whole mighty look like.
As with anything else in life you take with a grain of salt. Information is valuable, even when misdirected or misunderstood. So gather as much as possible and find your own conclusion. Anyone can have a deep understanding of something that’s completely unique from anyone else’s.
Thanks for this. For 30 years I've been saying the first couple pages of Genesis reads like "the story so far" and we were missing an earlier tale that is then continued in The Bible.
And thank you for watching and your support.
I don't think the evidence shows that the ancient isrealites were Monotheistic, but rather Monolotrists.
They worshiped one God, while not denying the existence of other God's (and spiritual beings)
As I understand it, the claim of Christians and Isrealites being Monothiestic came much much later than the time that the records were collected...
Seems so.
"When god Began to Create" is different from "in the beginning" a bit
@destructionindustries1987 absolutely! I was in a discussion with some young Christian missionaries (not of my faith tradition) who were talking with someone else who asked them where the Books of Moses Came from, and the missionaries were going the whole "Scripture is God breathed" route, and he turned to me ans asked me where I thought the Books of Moses came from, so I told them.
If we take into account Moses life, he was trained in the language of and records of Egypt, but also (so we are told) Abraham kept records and due to his isrealitw heritage, he would have had access to both Abraham and Joseph's records of events in addition to the Sumerian texts AND the Oral (and quite possibly) written texts and traditions of Jethro his father in law who was the High priest of Midian (who were also descendants of Abraham), and who at the time by all accounts still worshiped the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
He was also trying to unify Both the Isrealite and Non isrealite Egyptian slaves who were freed at the time of the exodus into one unified society.
So he had to craft a record that could introduce the heathens into Isrealite worship and practices, and being a smart man, would use records that they were familiar with, and direct them from Paganism into Monolotry.
It was the deuteronomists under Kkng Josiah, that changed the monolitry into Monotheistic practice when they consolidated power in Jerusalem.
@destructionindustries1987 upon rereading my old Testament, Monotheistic belief appeared to start during the King Deuteronomic reforms.
It seems to me that those reforms were a power grab by the temple priests in order to consolidate worship power at Jerusalem, rather than the former temple sites that spread through the Holy land. (Josiah was a young King after all, and would have been easily manipulated by priests wanting said power grab).
Monotheism was most likely more strongly enforced during the Babylonian Captivity as a reaction to the pantheism in Babylon as well
I feel conflicted that this was posted on Fool’s Day but I also love that connection at the same time. Cheers for this!
Perhaps releasing on April Fool's Day is a wink and a nod to the Bible being the biggest prank ever pulled?
Worthy to note that April 1st is also Assyrians New Years day.
This year, Assyrians will mark 6773 years.
@@petermaxfield7343: may I ask you a question?? Why 6773??......what particular history are they following to come to that conclusion exactly??
@@Christopher-nl2kb of course that's just the Assyrians. Other cultures started counting for other reasons and purposes.
@@petermaxfield7343i would say the years of the assyrians counts, is when the capital assyria build. Like the romans counts from the building of rome.
You should make an annotated version of Genesis, I would happily buy that
I AGREE!!!
I’m happy to do that and issue it for free. It may have to come out next year, but I’ll definitely make that a project.
I pirate (almost) everything but I would still buy that!
That would be SO interesting!
@@Crecganford There are already numerous ones.
Chapters:
1:00 Intro: The Bible a Collection of Stories
2:02 The Cosmogony
9:54 The Creation of Humans
14:55 The Garden of Eden
17:15 Immortality and Sin
22:59 Cain and Abel
26:56 The Flood
29:32 The Tower of Babel
31:58 Genesis A Greatest Hits of Mythology?
Many thanks
Bit of a missed opportunity to not call this "the genesis of the Genesis", but hey, a new video on the 1st day of the month. Hope you can have a great April
Well spotted 😂😂😂
@@AmandaJane-jw8iy maybe it was his April Fool's joke
Genemom, if you will.
nice@@BenjaminWalburn
South East Asian flood myths about 30,000 years ago, is about the time modern humans were migrating across land bridges to Malaysia, Indonesia and Australia. This would also include times people on Taiwan were building sea going boats and sailing to the Philippines, New Guinea and possibly other places. (e.g. The Aeta people have been living on the Philippines for about 40,000 years and apparently sailed there from Taiwan!)
In this context, flood myths might (also) be memories of surviving the devastation of great typhoons!
Yes, I do talk about this in my Flood Myth video, which if you haven't seen it, may help consolidate your thoughts on this.
Thoroughly enjoyed this, thank you!
In, IIRC, the first book of Enoch the 'knowledge' gained from eating the fruit is of pottery, textiles and metalworking.
I wonder if this distinction between in and out of Eden is in fact a folk recollection of the shift from hunter-gatherer nomadic lifestyles to more agricultural and settled ones.
I'm sure, just like now, people looked back on the past with rose-tinted spectacles and thought everything was better in the 'good old days.'
Enoch is worth a video in its own right, as it contains much Indo-European mythology. I will consider making that soon.
@@Crecganford Cool 😎😎😎
Yep. was also thinking along these lines. The good and evil metaphor is really an elaborate manifestation of the universal generational lament that everything: the language, the culture, the youth, the pottery, everything, is going to pot. The "generation gap" has been consistently documented for as long as scribes have been having children. And the pupils in ancient schools recorded their own complaints about the old fogeys of thousands of years ago. The old days have always been the good old days.
@@76rjackson Absolutely, just think of that quote from Socrates!!! I've often used that with students without telling them where it comes from, they always date it as a recent comment.
Enoch is basically 2nd temple Judaism's fan fic on genesis anyway
I studied religious studies in uni and one of my professors brought up an interesting point in passing once, which was to say that the story also kind of follows hunter gather lifestyle to farming lifestyle. Like they just wander around in this garden with fruit and wild animals, then they sin and now they have to farm the land for food. Could be an explination for why people had to farm
There's a theory that it was in the location of the Persian gulf. The flood was the ice age ending and sea levels rising. So it could be a rationalization for why they were forced out of 'paradise' and into the hardships of the world.
Hell yeah, I wanna hear your version of the Bible.
People gotta understand. This isn’t just about religion, philosophy, and scientific research. It’s also about storytelling. I say we hear this man’s version of the story.
I honestly think it has always been about story telling. The shifts in the sky, the eclipse, the summer and winter, the evolution from hunter gather to settler to agriculture to animal domestication to survive when crisis strikes, a bad harvest, a tsunami or rainstorm, the lineage of family, when I was reading the Bible it all seemed they were documenting their lives and created storytelling to explain the natural phenomenon of the world to gods or small deities or god even. Then it became a method to make the people obedient and docile and now it’s just twisted and corrupt unfortunately
It's fascinating to see all the elements from different myths which were combined
Uhh 20:05
"We suggest that these edible fruits were gathered from parthenocarpic trees grown from intentionally planted branches. Hence, fig trees could have been the first domesticated plant of the Neolithic Revolution, which preceded cereal domestication by about a thousand years."
Sumerian stone tablets dating back to 2500 B.C. record culinary use of figs
!
There are descriptions of them in Sumerian writings, and archeological evidence of figs dates back to 5000 BCE.
~
"Edible fig is probably native to the fertile region of southern Arabia (Ferguson et al. 1990). It was probably first domesticated outside its native region, in Mesopotamia, in the valley of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, in what is today Iraq. It was among the earliest known fruits to be cultivated, with records dating back to the Sumerian era, roughly 4,900 years ago (Ferguson et al. 1990)."
~John M. Randall
The medicinal attributes of figs were mentioned in the household records of Sumerian King Urukagina. Dating from 2900 B.C., this notation establishes that figs are one of civilization's oldest valued fruits.
Your video was extremely flawed
I really enjoy your videos. You make so much sense and add so much to my interpretation of prehistory.
Have always felt Genesis was my favourite of all the books because of its wisdom and use of excellent metaphor that can be read in more ways than one.
I can’t wait for your book! I noticed the similarities between Egyptian mythology and Greek mythology when I was younger and when I read the Bible, the similarities in their made me realize it was just stories all combined together. It was until I decided to look into the oldest written mythology, Mesopotamian mythology, that I really saw the where it all came from originally with major changes obviously. I do want to look into other mythologies too but they’re too long and I don’t have as much time. Looking forward to your work?
Would be. nice to hear your take on the origin story of Kalevala. Is it related to any indo-european mythology?
That is a planned video which will be made as soon as I can.
As a Christian myself I find it endlessly fascinating to put the Bible in its initial setting.
Nothing is true, and yet you are still a Christian? Cognitive dissonance comes to mind? Wanting nonsense to be true doesn’t stop it being nonsense.
Even if you could call the bible evidence, it’s poor. If the bible is egregiously faulty then the main character’s existence is likely fantasy. If the existence of Yahweh is a fiction then the god man Jesus cannot stand. Faith based on the contents of the bible is worthless for the following reasons…
There is real historical evidence of John the Baptist, but not of the greater Jesus. There is historical evidence of Appolonious, a character similar to Jesus, but not of Jesus. There is an historical record of Jesus Ben Pandera but, no Jesus the Galilean outside of the bible. Nothing. There’s Jesus ben Ananias, a rude peasant, who went around Jerusalem in 66CE prophesying its fall in 70CE; he’s recorded in documents outside the bible, but not the biblical Jesus. His alleged disciples never wrote anything they were uneducated peasants. His enemies never recorded his miracles nor his troublesome nature. The bible account says he was widely known and a divisive figure that the Romans never recorded, and neither did the Jews.
There were a number of people with the name Jesus, exhibiting Jesus behaviours, many have been recorded; but, not the Jesus of the bible. Was he a fiction? Indeed, you don’t require any actual person to have actually existed for a “reality” to grow from nothing. King Arthur and Robin Hood, along with William Tell, and others, come to mind. Was the biblical Jesus based on a composite of these other Jesus’s with reference to the Old Testament plagiarise to elevate these people to one divine god.
The rest of the Jesus/Yahweh tale is equally murky.
There’s no evidence that all the first born were killed either in Egypt nor by Herod. I think the Egyptians would have recorded such a calamity and the calamities of the plagues, but nothing. Could the Jews have made it all up?
The first line of the bible is clearly incorrect. The Earth was formed 9.8 billion years after the heavens. How did the creator get that wrong? And, the rest of the creation is wrong. It’s as if an ancient ignorant tribe wrote it all by themselves, no god to help.
There are no waters above the firmament, for a start. Heaven isn’t up there either, we’ve been there. The tribes of the Middle East wouldn’t have known oceans could be frozen but for the heat of the sun. But, water was everywhere before the sun was “created” in the biblical account. More evidence of a fiction by an ignorant tribe with no access to a god creator.
Adam was made from dirt by magic and he, this god, forgot about Eve, an afterthought. so not an all knowing and wise god then?
Snakes and donkeys talk, nonsense fiction, right up there with Harry Potter, though JK Rowling was clearly a better writer with fewer continuity errors.
This god set up Eve by placing this magic apple within her reach. Then punished humanity thereafter. What a vicious god, if not a fictional one.
Nonsense fiction, by an ignorant ancient people writing about their mythology, their nation’s origins, steeped in the mists of the past, just the same as the Greek, Persian and Babylonian cultures write about their make believe gods who were equally fervently worshipped. Inanna, the dying and rising goddess was such an example. But many more dying and rising gods in the lexicon of ancient myths. Virgin births were pretty common too.
Adam and Eve’s children (as Eve was a clone of Adam) and grandchildren (as Cain, Able and Seth only had Eve to produce offspring or with their unknown sisters) could only have been produced by incest, then double incest, according to the biblical account. Clearly god didn’t know that the inbreeding of the biblical account would lead to genetic problems. None of it true, nothing a creator god would have penned. It was a fiction by a Jewish ancient people.
The Exodus apparently didn’t happen according to all evidence, acknowledged by the Jewish archaeologists who have tried to find it. The Egyptians never wrote of their army being swallowed by the sea. Mosses may never existed.
There is a massive amount of genocide in the bible by a god who failed to get the locals to behave. Genocide because the Israelites needed a land to make home. If a creator of the universe and humans could have just thought a new land, a new island, south of Cyprus, it would have appeared. Easy for a god, not so for an ancient tribe to pull off? Then, this god could have told these others how to behave and punished individuals, if that’s what was needed. But no, he went straight to mass murder. What?
And, the greatest god in the universe was defeated by iron chariots: Judges1:19. That is so ridiculous, such a puny god. Or, is it because the story was a creation of a tribe that had no concept of future technologies or tactics to defeat these new Iron Age chariots? I’m sure that a human Napoleon type tactician could have done better than the all wise, all powerful fictitious god of the universe.
Genesis 19 tells us of Lot being raped by this daughters. And yet this god is moral? He could have changed the course of their predicament, found him a younger wife or servant to sleep with, if a god. More incest.
The Jewish religion was at its heart, a blood sacrifice barbaric religion.
The books that were supposedly written by Mosses consist of a linguistic style that didn’t exist at the time of his “life”. It’s a fictitious narrative, written by the Jews to give their new nation an historical legitimacy, and unify them, in the midst of other powerful cultures in the Middle East. Didn’t help much though, they were constantly being invaded and subjugated by more powerful “gods” of other warring nations.
Even Yahweh acknowledged there were other gods. Remember the Ten Commandments tablets that were conveniently broken and then without fuss, lost. An all powerful creator of the universe who missed the opportunity to create the tablets out of an advanced technology, such as, I don’t know, Titanium? Is that because the Jews didn’t know about such a thing and so had no understanding of the future? The forging of such a technology would have cemented the truth of their god. Broken disappeared stone tablets: clearly, no god involved. Convenient.
Noah and his flood occurred when the Egyptians where going about their cultural and religious practices that continued afterwards; and, their religion was not replaced by the flood family’s immediate ancestors, fanning out from the ark. The Pharaohs and their gods continued unabated. No Yahweh? More incest?
The Chinese culture and writing developed along a continuum and they too were never taken the religion of Yahweh from the Middle East, by Noah’s relatives.
And, the ancient Britons and Australians failed to notice they were meant to be dead.
The New Testament, if it is read, critically, is inconsistent and evolves over time.
Indeed, the gospels were not written for decades after the death of this Jesus, whose birth and death are still questionable and no date can be asserted with clarity.
There was no census when Herod was alive, that story was made up after the event. Nazareth was not a town in the first century and was only “discovered“ when Constantine’s mother, Helena, went looking for it. The gospel writers mistook the word Nazarene for a town. And there are many problems with the census and the way it is told. Because it was written as fact over one hundred years after the supposed birth of this Jesus. More fiction?
The whole point of a census is to count the number of people in an area. The census of the bible is an artificial device to get Mary to give birth in the town of David where the biblical messiah was to be born.
And, boulders weren’t placed in front of tombs until later, about 50 years, one of the reasons that the gospels are thought to have been written many years after the myth of Jesus.
And, the crucified where left to rot on the cross/pole on which they were hung as a warning to insurrectionists? No empty tomb, it’s a fiction to turn a myth into a “fact”. To turn man into god.
Pilate was, in real history, recorded history, a truly nasty contemptuous man, he would never have allowed the process of crucifixion as a warning to have been undermined. And, the alleged trial is a tale of the blood cult of scapegoating. Even Barabbus was a literary device representing scapegoating, suggesting it never occurred. Barabbus means, son of the teacher, or son of the father. The gospel writers where representing the two characters as essentially the same, one became the goat sacrifice. And, the twist was that the Jews shouted to let the murderer go, allowing the blame for Jesus’s death to be placed on the Jews and not the imperial Romans. It was very much a political narrative because the Jews and Romans where essentially at war, the destruction of the Temple in 70AD/CE, and this new sect/cult needed to distinguish themselves from the Jewish troublemakers, and the ongoing violence of the time.
Paul never knew Jesus and only depicted him as a spiritual vision. He knew nothing of the man and nothing of his life or his teachings. More evidence that the Chrestos (anointed) was mythical?
The first time the gospels were mentioned was in 180AD/CE by Irenaeus. Indeed, a very prominent Christian, Theophilus, said that he came to believe in Jesus from reading the Jewish Scriptures or, Torah. No mention of the gospels, no quoting of anything Jesus allegedly said. That was circa, 170-182AD/CE. The myth of the god man Jesus was created over many years. But, Mark was first written, not until at least 70AD/CE but, as above, could have been much later.
No record of the star of Bethlehem, of the graves emptying, or the sky darkening. It’s fiction.
Christians may need to believe in this lie. Still, it’s a lie.
So you admit it’s taken from older myths and thus the belief of 95% of you that it’s the word of some bearded monotheistic God with his dumb ass son is wrong? (Marduk > jesus)
You renew my faith in Christians...too many are allergic to looking at the foundations of their faith.
I feel that if one doesn't get to know the history of their faith, they do themselves a disservice.
🤓❤👋
You should check out myth vision, and the gnostic informant. There are a lot of good history channels, but the interview people with all sorts of views, mostly scholars, but sometimes TH-cam's such as this channel for example.
We also see the _wind = spirit_ motif reflected in other traditions, such as the Mongolian Khiimori. I suspect this is related to the fact that, for humans at least, wind (breath) is so intimately associated with the activity of life, with the directed motion of the soul being what distinguishes it from the stillness of death, and turbulent chaos the horizon between the two. (LOL as I was writing this a windstorm temporarily knocked out our power. Touché, sky daddy, touché.)
If it’s worth anything, wind usually represents life or spirits as well in anime, such as Yuno and his Wind Spirit from Black Clover
You are the first source I go to when I need guidance. Thank you so very much for all your dedication!
Thank you so much for your kind words and support. It really is appreciated.
25:03 my man got rhymes. Great video. I always find it so fascinating how all these mythologies are related and how they change and continue to change even today.
Great work! I'm new to the channel and will spend the next few weeks watching all your content. Absolutely fantastic storytelling and ability to weave multiple narratives together into a cohesive video. Cheers 🥂
Thank you.
This was excellent. Yes please to an explanation of the Abraham story! Also, would love to have a better look at the titles on your bookshelf.
Crecganford on most ancient myths: here is the story and here's the cultural context, it's really rather interesting and you can see the connections with the myths we're familiar with today
Crecganford on the Old Testament: shits all over it in the most polite, light-handed, most British way possible
I for one would love to read your version of Genesis.
The common King James Bible may be hilarious,but plenty of us suffered from educators when we pointed this out.Thanks.
Awesome! I have been waiting for someone to make this, thanks Crecganford! Love it.
I'll never get tired of listening to your brilliant breakdowns.
Thank you so much.
Amun to that! Great vid. I seem to see you become more relaxed and having more fun as a video presenter. You present it all so well!
Great video !
I was waiting for this topic to be addressed for a while.
Thank you very much again for this ! (Not an english speaker here).
As much as for the others videos linked in this one.
And for the humorous highlight discreetly everywhere in your videos. :)
That's some kind of "relief" to listen/see the origins of monotheims being explained, or at least the origins of its mixes being given to thought.
Thank you.
When you said that upon eating the forbidden fruit and gaining the knowledge of sex, they lost immortality I instantly thought of Enkidu. Once he gained knowledge of sex, he could no longer exist in peace among the animals.
I'd read your version of the old testament! Sounds interesting! Thx again for sharing your mind.
This is great and you are a genius of mytho-history. I appreciate you.
Thank you.
Thank you for making a streamlined video that covers a lot of information that you'd only get by reading tons of different books and putting together the puzzle pieces.
As a fun note, Joseph Campbell covers how the Garden of Eden fable is a bit of a jab at the old pre-agricultural goddess cultures, because it takes Eve (the goddess) and her consort, the snake (the dying and rebirthing god) and transforms them into evil/flawed figures who cause the downfall of humanity.
It also subverts the natural order of life (women coming from men rather than the other way around) to more firmly establish the patriarchal order that followed.
The Abrahamic faiths are very anti-life, so it follows that anything, or anyone, representing life would be villanized and punished.
I would not agree with this vision. In the sense of how Christ both inverts and in doing so completes the story of genesis. As Woman came from man, Christ came from Mary. (1 Corinthians 11:11-2). Furthermore, It is said Christ became sin for us, that is, Christ became the serpent on the cross. Moreover, the idea that the snake is bad is fine. As snakes representing cycles is exactly what the fall entails, a movement away from paradise (a place of eternal life) to a world of thorns (cycles of death and birth). Snakes also seem to exhibit opposite traits to humans (snakes move curved / humans straight, snakes lie on their belly / human upright, snakes have fangs like thorns, poison, forked tongue, etc).
I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts on the Abrahamic faiths being ant-life. I was raised very Christian and, after moving out into the world (traveling for several years) I was obviously confronted by many new ideas and beliefs. Thus challenged, I first developed what felt like quite an intense Christian philosophy, only to see it waver and eventually crumble before convictions of certain things--usually beneath a more philosophical, physics, or rationalistic approach, and less through a process of actually learning about the history/evolution of human myths and symbols and whatnot.
All that to say I became a sort of agnostic atheist, but I still retain an immense love and respect of our mythologies and religions, Christianity very much among them. Even after rejecting the idea that it's true in some absolute or superordinate sense, I can't help but continually recognize layers upon layers of meaning. I've also been writing a lot on other stuff these years, and have come to enjoy exploring Hindu and Buddhist motifs as well--but I still see a lot of value in the Abrahamic faiths. They seem to take risks the others don't, admittedly have dangers the others don't, and have admittedly taken on a rigidity or dogma which does cause harm. It also seems though that they do things the others don't, they suggest transcendent ideas the others don't, which have given us many useful instruments in constructing this human civilization.
Still, they seem to follow a very natural and human progression, as does the evolution of most such things in retrospect. I feel as with any myth they teach us quite a lot about ourselves.
Anyway I'm rambling. Your mentioning of 'anti-life' brought Nietzsche obviously to mind, and so plunged me into the realm of philosophy, with which I'm much more familiar. I think Nietzsche was a brilliant guy but came with some fundamental biases which blind him to certain things. There just seems to be a curious trend of certain 'central' faiths or ideas--ideas that have gained much traction and defined so much of our past--being oversimplified or dismissed with less nuance, less appreciation, and less scholarly integrity than others.
It could be because these 'central faiths' still dominate certain demographics quite dogmatically or dangerously. It could be because they are so fresh and immediate that we DO need to deconstruct them before appreciating their own process of formation. It could be that there's simply something which diminishes a religion's value, as it merges with others and tends towards this more monotheistic, overarching, abstract, moralizing, dogmatic structure.
I suppose there are a lot of arguments to make about this--and I'm not even saying you're dismissing or simpilifying these religions. It's just a trend I've noticed and I'm curious as to your choosing of the 'anti-life' description.
It's very obvious for example that these religions are formed by the same humanity as formed all the other gods and myths. So what changed? The circumstances? (Agriculture, industry, multiculturalism etc?) Or is it the idea itself? Was 'anti-life' located causally in the idea or the people, and where therein and why?
I very much enjoyed your long comment - it was filled with knowledge and I totally understand you're searching for answers. I'm 72 and I'll be searching for answers until I die!
What did you mean when you said that the Abrahamic faiths are anti-life? Can you explain that for me please?
I am sooooo glad that i came across this channel. This is such fascinating subject. I have been getting more into reading about religions and mythology., etc. So this is exactly the channel I needed. And you seem like a very humble man, so it's a pleasure to listen to you. Thank you
Thank you.
@@Crecganfordi second this comment. Will be watching and rewatching for ages to come, thank you! I have only checked out a few videos because I do rewatch/listen a few times. I wondered in this one how the massive sea level rise ~10000 years ago plays into the (flood) myths. As I understand it (which is from some random info I haven’t revisited in a few years), there was an impact driven jump in sea level of hundreds of feet due to rapid ice cap melting. I figure this must affect our more recent core mythologies as well as physically burying/submerging almost every single significant center of civilization at the time since they would be largely distributed on waterfronts.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video, and look forward to a deeper dive into the biblical mythology. Fascinating subject. ❤
The bible is great for carrying on many of these stories but because the faiths deem it as much more than it is, so many have been confused. So much of genesis contains multiple creation myths which I think proves it is exactly as you say. A remixing and retelling of the stories of other cultures.
I literally just caught myself telling you on my screen to wait a moment please while I go put the kettle on...
This is my first time coming across your channel. I'm impressed! I was listening while playing computer solitaire (distracted), but I intend to listen again with my full intention. You make some interesting points that I haven't heard elsewhere. Thanks!
Thank you, I hope you enjoy my other videos as well.
Matt Baker from Useful Charts has mentioned an idea in some of his videos an idea that the northern tribes of Israel had Egyptian-influence while the southern tribes had Mesopotamian influence and that they had to try to combine these ideas when the northerners moved south in flight from invasion of the north.
Thank you, very interesting because I've been wondering about this for a loooooong time.❤
Once more a great video to watch on a rainy afternoon. The thought that came up in me was: And what about the Zoroastrian Creation Myth? Is that myth too young to possibly have been playing a role ?
Yes, that is an interesting topic… let me ponder what I can do in this space.
Your inteligent examinations are really interesting. Thanks for your work.
And thank you for watching and your support.
Bless you! This is massively interesting and so timely for my divine purpose work.🌹
Brilliant work ,Mate. Love your channel!!
Thank you so much!
This is great insight into the collection of myths in the book of Genesis. I knew there was a connection to other creation-myths, but you explain it in a way that i still feel the taste of the fruit of knowledge..
Again you produce a riveting and fascinating analysis. So.glad I found your channel.
Thank you so much.
Your channel rocks, and the content is so well researched and presented. Thank you. I hope you write that book.
This made my day. Thanks!
Great video. I've understood the first 11 chapters of Genesis as the Hebrew version of Mesopotamian stories and events, more allusive than giving full stories. You didn't mention some fragments like the Song of Lamech, the Nephilim and the origin of "heroes of old, warriors of renown" (Gen 6:4), Nimrod, the "mighty hunter before the Lord (10:8-9), the tower of Babel as a "storming of heaven" with an interesting parallel in Ovid's Metamorphosis, the confusion of languages and dispersal of peoples, but there is so much there. I recall that Theodore Gaster wrote a book on myths and legends in the Old Testament, as well as Canaanite Myth in Thespis. Any thoughts on his work?
There is scientific evidence of a great flood. Look at ancient buildings, most of them, their doors are down under. Easter Island statues, the bodies are buried under. Look it up.
Yes, some of the stories in the bible are fictional, but it does contain some historical stories.
Difficult topic to discuss due to the many irregular translations of the original text, ie, serpent in the garden of Eden translating more accurately as adversery, etc. Due to so many " uncertainties" it's hard to extract much unless you consider all the suspect interpretations in the more common translations.
This is an incredible video! Thank you, this helps so much. I'm GREATLY interested in your interpretation of the story of Abraham.
perhaps the reason it is unusual is because the waters and the earth don't necessarily mean the waters and the earth in the context of our planet but in the context of the cosmos. it is confusing if read plainly but from the perspective of it being written to be a timeless narrative that could be reinterpreted throughout the ages it makes sense.
Another cracking video, please publish sooner rather than later :)
Looking good in this one Mr. Crecg Anford, great video!
Thank you.
One of your most interesting videos yet! Love this topic.
Thank you so much.
Another great video, very interesting to explore the origins of these myths. Please publish your version of the old testament, I would definitely buy that
Thank you for your kind words.
The reason why god often refers to himself in Plural is purely linguistical. In semitic languages, there exist 2 types of plural: the plural of number, and the plural of respect. By saying "we" and "our" is because he is referring to himself in a respectful way.
Make of that what you will, just wanted to point it out.
Marvelous! Wonderful. Thank you again for this great video!
Thank you very much for all your hard work!
Thank you so much for your support, it is very much appreciated.
Thank you so much for all those informations
A follow up video about abraham and the old testament will be great, can't wait!
I look at everything with an open eye and view. Thank you for this information. Also yes i would be interested.
The bit about Babel reminded, me somewhat tangentially maybe, that when the great medieval cathedrals were built they were very much the product of economic success in the town where they were built.
And so it became not uncommon for towns/abbots to compete in size and height and, in the absence of formal architectural knowledge, this often led to collapse of part of the structure.
Even the town halls of the Great Northern industrial towns, Manchester, Bradford etc. Were built somewhat in competition with each other.
Babel is real I'm afraid
It was probably in the late ice age
The next line" and you could see for fu**ing miles" was taken out for some reason. Allegedly.
Thank you so much for the subtitles, now i can share your videos to my spanish speaking friends!
Definitely looking forward to your OT rewrite. ❤
I hope you find it entertaining.
@@Crecganford I'm hoping for informative as well.
A theologian colleague of mine, Jim Perkinson, treats the early parts of Genesis as remembering humans' connection to the earth prior to agriculture. It's intriguing. (His general project is hard to categorize, but it's deeply concerned with retrieving ancient wisdom and ancestral traditions, particularly as they relate to living in harmony with the earth. Biblical scholar Pete Enns thinks the Eden story is about the Exile, that Adam represents Israel. Another common interpretation (held by some Church Fathers (I want to say Irenaeus in particular) as well as contemporary theologians) is that it's a coming-of-age story.
I think there are a lot of possibilities. AIUI, the editors of Genesis were Israelite scribes in Babylon during the Exile, & they'd learned that craft by copying Babylonian myths - esp. Enuma Elish. I think they were revising the Babylonian and Egyptian myths quite deliberately to reflect their developing theology, intentionally contrasting with those myths.
Also worth noting - "adam," or "earth creature," is related to the words "dam" (blood) and "adamah" (humus). As I understand it, anyway - admittedly, I don't read Hebrew.
I just recently discovered this amazing channel. Please keep up the great work! Could you cover Japanese myths, too? Especially izanami and izanagi stirring the waters with a spear to create land, is it connected to the bird diving?
Thank you. They’re not my area of expertise, but I am happy to read about them in the coming months.
Thanking God for making so many errors in creation was an awesome way to make your point! Thanks for all your hard work, research, and the time you spent making this fantabulous video.
Thank you!
Yes please...I would love to read your version of Genesis!
Good stuff. As always. Was pleasantly surprised to see you on MythVision. Was that your first YT collaboration? Or have you made appearances on other channels as well?
I’ve been on many channels, although usually with regard to Indo-European mythology. But yes, Mythvision was my first interview as a TH-camr.
I'll look for that. Another great channel.
Cup of tea at ready.
Jon, please publish. I’m very interested.
FYI, I’ve applied to study Anthropology - going to uni for the first time at 66.
Congratulations, and I wish you great success. And I’m always here if you have any questions.
Loved it. I don't think I heard it, but it would be good context to explain when the earliest historical evidence of when Genesis was being canonized, to explain why these myths were selected. I was talking to my partner, that stories are interesting facets of humanity, as they are always by nature of time and space, written by a future narrator, justifying a present system of culture, by giving origins that justify said system.
Another great video Jon. I would also buy your version of Genesis. We look forward to seeing what you have up coming after every video you share, keep up the great work and have a great weekend.
Thank you so much.
Interesting as always. You mention 'adam' as possible earlier designation for people/mankind - do you have any thoughts on the word's relation to Hebrew 'adem' (earth, soil)? Is it a modern reinterpretation in your opinion?
In Dutch adem means breath. I have always liked that.
Would really like to hear your account of old testament, please do more like this.
Yet another very interesting lecture, Mr. White.
The Genesis creation myth does indeed appear as a construct of a multicultural synthesis between Canaanite, Memphite, Babylonian and Sumerian mythologies. Perhaps even a possible Zoroastrian dimension to it, first seen in the description of Eden with the four rivers parting out from it and thus reminiscent of the Persian paradisiacal gardens of ancient fame which also had a central fountain parting into four heads.
At any rate, your skill at comparative mythology is of academic calibre. Thankyou, and please continue on with it all. And you "want to thank god for making so many errors in creation..." LOL that was a great ending 👏 😂
This reduction of “Adam” to a single man is an example of a mistake in classical/modern hermeneutics of almost all ancient myth. These mythical figures are often considered amalgamations of real people, just as Shakespeare was considered a mixture of real people, but the figures are still interpreted as referring to a single person. I believe that myth was a concoction of stories blended together to achieve a kind of virality to ensure their retellings would be self-sustaining in a pre-literary world. Thus, figures like Odysseus would represent the post-bronze age collapse Greek peoples, Jason/hercules would represent the Greek peoples at earlier periods. Zeus would represent the pre-Minoan flight to Crete. Enkidu would represent tribal peoples with which Gilgamesh sought alliance.
Imagining how pre-literate peoples adapted to the integration of the written myth into their theology is very interesting. The priest class would be well aware that they could no longer adlib their myths in summarized retellings and thus theology was born.
I just found your excellent channel - I'm now a subscriber. 😉❣️
Thank you.
I'd love to read/hear your Old Testament takes!
Try the channel Dragons in Genesis.
32:00 I would LOVE to have either a video on this or a published work that is your version of the old testimant!
The Levant was always a hotly contested area, it sits at the entrance of Europe, Asia, and Africa. The people of Israel and Judah had their own unique native culture but it was also supplemented by other cultures such as the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Hittites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Philistines, Greeks, Romans, and Arabs. Therefore, it is no accident that the stories from these regions represent some of the best mythology we have.
Please understand that I did not say that this was in ANY way derogative of the Bible. I said that I 'detected" a "few" remarks which hinted that biblical passages needed more critique than other myths. It was NOT a big thing at all. I thoroughly enjoyed this video on Genesis and shout out for MORE!!! This was excellent!!!
I did always connect creation by divine fiat (and in the beginning was the word) with the Greek logos concept but the Ptah timeline makes more sense. Somewhat under-exposed. My personal synopsis so far: the Tiamat/Tehom slaying dates back to a time before Walmart when the shelters of hunter-gatherers were still made out of Leviathan bones (with sea monsters pinch-hitting for mastodons). The divine geek (but that would be Thoth) came later.
Thankyou I resonated with your narrative .
Yes I would love to read you're commentary on the Bible.
I've been fascinated by the document for a long time now and it has encouraged a fascination with antiquity and its spirituality.
All fun until you realize that God had a wife. Ashera. Fun fact. The last temple dedicated to her is on the Algaida by Sanlucar in Spain. Want to know is name? "Templum Luciferi" looks like someone beat you to it on the story play.
He did, and I have made a video about that.
I'm noticing a major improvement in the audio on this channel. I hadn't been here in a while, but I like what I'm hearing a lot!
First off, I am not a Christian. I like studying different cultures and belief systems. Many years ago I had an interesting discussion with a Jesuit priest, he admitted that the stories in Genesis are myths or parables. We both agreed there is nothing wrong with mythology, it serves to instruct the young as well as assimilating them into their culture. Mythology also explains phenomena to a populace. I suspect the story of Adam and Eve was to explain climate change, when the Mideast changed to a more arid and less lush fertile land.
Thank you for the work you do, good stuff
And thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. It is appreciated.
Bravo! Definitely want to see your version of Genesis!😅
please do publish this book, it sounds so interesting
I’m here again. Watched yesterday but it’s soo interesting and perfect for Sunday watching.
Are you Scottish by chance? The font and name…..
Excellent as always
Thank you.
From what I understand the word used for 'rib' could also mean the baculum, i.e. penile bone, and that perhaps the creation of Eve from the baculum was an explanation for why humans, unlike most mammals, lack the baculum?
Thanks for a great and informative video. I don't know if it's feasible, but would it be possible to do an episode on the origin of the Messianic figure?
I received this nearly a week ago - l only decided to listen to some of it today.
So the April 1st theory is a bit spurious 😄