Couldn't you argue it's the employer who has a take no give attitude if they're just talking about their wants and expectations but not pay? It's a job, I'm here for the pay, why tip toe around that?
@cyberguypr Sounds like a "taker" mentality. You need to accept whatever they will give you at the time they decide to hire you. Go into the interview all about what you can give, not what you can take.
@@costco_pizza Of course is about what value an employer will get out of me. However, it makes zero sense to invest time if they are looking to pay say $70k and I determine my rate to be $120k. To what other's said, I know my worth and don't want them or myself to waste time if we are not in the same ballpark.
An interview isn't just a company seeing if you're worth it. You are also there to judge whether or not they are worth your time as well. I wish I had known this before and maybe I would be working in a better place
The interview is just one source of information. You could also do research about the company and the position by going through news articles, social media, even contacting their HR ahead of time and seeing if that department will disclose the range. I once knew a guy who found out what food truck parks down the block from the company he was looking at. Paid the truck owner $50 to be a cashier for a day to suss out what the company is really like.
@Ryugu true,you got to know when the job is gonna benefit you or not,you have to be greedy,after all It's your life and you do what you can to make it better for you
Gosh. I remember going through such an annoying process. Their offer, after four interviews, was much less than I was already earning. I ask up front now.
@Randall Johnson exactly, I'm trying to get into IT so I don't have experience yet, and yes I wouldn't take dirt pay like 10 an hour for an IT job, but as long as it's somewhat reasonable you just take what you can get, get some experience in the industry, and then try to negotiate higher pay at your job, or start applying for similar positions at other companies with the intention of asking for more
most show you their rate on their job advertisement. Even if they don't show, you should probably do enough research to know how much other companies generally pay. The most important key is to get hired first, salary mean nothing when you don't get hired. You can always reject the offer, if you think you are underpay. You should always go to multiples interviews, not just one. From there, you can see which offer is the best for you. Sometime more money does not mean better position.
@@chrislim7976 No it means that they haven’t disclosed that information. You can research glass door, etc and still not have a true picture. In fact glass door indicates that I am over paid for my position.
This is so dumb. Employers ask for all your references before telling you what they pay. If the ad doesn’t list the salary range I won’t waste me time. Transparency is just good business.
@brandon wolf exactly, I'm studying to go into IT so once I get my certs I'm gonna apply to a bunch of places and be all professional and everything and not ask about pay until they offer the job, if they don't offer it then I won't say anything. Once they offer it I'll ask and if it seems too low I'll just ask if they can do more and if they can't then I'll just say no thanks and move on.
Exactly. Fortunately a lot of jobs listed on line show benefits and salary range. Why waste my time and their time if the salary isn't where I'm expecting it to be?
They both act like the candidate is the only one being interviewed. The candidate is absolutely interviewing you, too! I am a recruiter, and we do have people who turn down our offers (and not just solely based on compensation).
Yes, but unless you are at the pinnacle of your field, the employer doesn't need you as much as you need them. With the exception of emergent fields and some robot-proof skilled trades, there is almost always a greater supply of candidates than there is a demand for them.
@@CarlGorn True but the company is not guaranteed to hire a candidate with the same drive and dedication to their craft. Mediocracy is plentiful. Extraordinary is rare.
@@ajoyforlife1 Which is exactly why Dave's advice is good for 95% of candidates. Most people aren't extraordinary, though these days, many people have the delusion that they are. And nobody wants to hire that.
In my current position, when pay came up the CEO scoffed at what I told him I was making, and literally said “we pay better, much better than that!” And what they started me at was more than I ever made! I’ve learned to ask what you want for and the worst they say no, the best, they come close to or match to what your want! Just go for it!
That's actually a much more tactful and proactive way to go about it. Asking in the interview not only makes you look confrontational, but also lazy and stupid, and all that will register in the employer's subconscious so you won't even be thought about. Much better to do your homework on the position before you set foot in the interview.
@@saulgoodman2018 They might, however, tell you how much to ask for. Especially if you couch it as asking them for advice, or for the posterity of research. People love to be seen as an authority on something.
the real question should be why is the job not telling you the range before the first interview. this is a two way street, employers typically always look to take in many instances. salary should be known before first interview.
The opinion of the dark shirt guy is okay for entry level. - If not entry level salary should be a topic since otherwise it could be a potential waste of everyone's valuable time (salary ranges of employer and interviewer may not even be on the same page).
Yeah not asking shows youre desperate. At this point in my career I'm upfront about what I want for my salary. Sometimes they don't go forward with me, but who cares you always find someone who bites!
I've taken assignments & gone through the entire interview process not knowing the pay. Personally I can't stand not knowing how much a position pays until the end of the interview. Companies should really disclose how much a position pays in the job announcement.
@@wewhoareabouttodiesaluteyo9303 ok but the point I’m making is for these silly office jobs or “higher level” jobs. It’s never posted. Use Glassdoor and sometimes they don’t even get the salary right.
If it's not listed on the job posting , I ask when I get called for an interview. My time is my most valuable resource and I don't want to waste it on a position that is not within my range. Just put the salary range on the job posting to prevent all of this from happening.
Let's waste an hour and find out it pays $12, no thanks. It should be illegal to not list the pay. When someone asks you to do something you always say how much. Hey can you dig a hole for me? Sure, how much are you going to pay me...
The difference is when you're asked to dig a hole, you are given the job offer. So it's appropriate to ask for the pay. You don't ask for pay right out the gate.
One problem with that is pay is like Dave said, a range. Employers aren't going to pay someone with more experience the same as someone with less experience. While I agree with the sentiment that people work for money, and that should be more available information, it isn't always so cut and dry.
@@James-yi1vk if I can't ask for pay information upfront then the company shouldn't ask for my resume upfront. sounds right? actually, it sounds ridiculous. you cant complete a transaction and not know what you are getting. the company's job should be to ensure you are qualified to earn the salary, not to hide salaries and manipulate people.
Usually HR schedules the interview. That is who you want to ask for the salary range so you don't have to bring it up in the actual interview. HR also is usually who calls you back after the interview to offer you the job. It is there where you can do some final negotiation on salary.
i agree but there is a professional way asking about the pay and negotiate it. if u came barging into the interview office amd asking about the pay before presenting what u can bring into the table, its ur fault if u dont get the job
@@mynamejeb8743 if the pay isn’t transparent, the job is not worth having. That’s just in my personal experience. These employers need to understand we are trading our time and skills for their money. That’s it.
@@mynamejeb8743 if someone comes in asking about pay, your job should be to verify they are worth it. however pay shouldn't be on the back burner of an interview because no matter how good a job is, if you can't pay the bills then it's not worth it. a jobs needs arent more important than mine
I just had an interview Thursday, and I did ask about the pay range at the end.. I Dont want to waste their time or mine. They either appreciate that or Dont. Not my problem.
If it is a great job, you should be there for more than money. Personal and Professional growth are just as important as your salary. That can be a stepping stone to another job in your career path.
What about the time-wasting factor, on both sides? If I know that I need $X and it is within the typical range for this job...yet the job pays less than $X...isn't it better to say that upfront and save everyone time and precious resources?
@@obo2999 for some reason people think wasting an hour is the end of the world as if they had something better to do at every waking second, but I could understand if it was multiple interviews, or a really long interview just to get offered 10 an hour.
@@HearMeLearn It just doesn't make sense to me. If your objective is to hire someone then you should only talk to people who will be able to accept the wage you are offering. If your objective is to get hired (and you need a certain salary to pay your bills) then you should only talk with employers who have a job that is a potential fit. Job interviews aren't about making friends. Its about finding the right fit for both parties. I don't believe that asking about salary makes you a "taker." I think it makes you a realist.
@@obo2999 most salaried workers have to do a phone or zoom call initially and then an in-person or interview after. many times these professionals work half a day or full day to see what the job is like before accepting the position. if the job is across state lines, the applicant work has to acquire accommodations, transportation, and an airline ticket too to get do the interview. This consumes extensive resources and requires significant effort especially when you aren't sure of job benefits. if a person is applying however for a minimum wage job that interview will likely only be an hour. even then that hour could've been spent in another interview with more favorable offers
@@triple_gem_shining They throw them out at 18 and most parents have a family unit where one of the two is actually biological. They have their own problems.
Unless someone is interviewing for a volunteer position, we DO care about how much the job pays. And I am not ashamed of that. My time is valuable, as is that of the interviewer. Companies waste both by not revealing salary ranges up front. I know of many excellent candidates who won't even consider positions if the pay rate is unknown. You (company owners) are doing yourself a disservice by playing coy with this.
Exactly. Especially on a cold call from a recruiter. I’ve got a job I like. I’d rather not waste everyone’s time unless you’re potentially going to be paying a lot more than I’m already making. Completely reasonable question and if phrased correctly it shouldn’t be insulting to anyone... heck it just shows that I ALREADY value that companies resources and want to do what’s best for them.
That's not my experience. I have found the first thing an employer will ask is "What are your salary requirements ?" This is before you can even prove that they should hire you. It's nothing but a power play to lowball people on pay.
Most people low ball these days and it definitely takes more time to look for work than to hire.. saying a range of what you're budgeting for a position is just manners.. plain and simple
I can see your advice being good when talking about a company like Ramsey Solutions that is a ministry as well and that has a prestigious name, but for the average job it is crazy to expect people to pretend that they don't care about pay. I work for money, not because I think my company is so amazing I just want to give to them. Of course I care about compensation, and not just in a "will be able to survive on it?" kind of way. Being paid is why I work even if I love the work. I did ministry work for a number of years and I loved it and all I got was a small stipend, that's totally different than a BUSINESS expecting that I just want to "bless the boss" and that's why I come to work each day.
“Instantly revealed his heart “ The man needs money to survive. Tell him whether or not he’s wasting his time with you. Don’t act like he’s there to serve you first. That’s secondary to survival. Smh people in positions of power man....
Exactly! The young guy was to the point, which is generally what you want in your company. It's a given that he understands that he has to work for the compensation, especially, as Dave indicated, that the guy was promising in every way. That kid was smart. It was probably his way of filtering out bad employers, and Dave, ironically, revealed His hand.
Do people just not listen. Dave didn't say don't talk about salary. He said don't lead with it, because it leaves a bad impression. A buisness is taking an investment in you when they hire you. If your attitude is that, you are "only here for money", than why should I invest in you over the guy who wants to grow with the company. Why should the interviewer want to invest in you, when you just told them you would quit and leave for another job at the first oppurtunity? This mercenary attitude goes both ways. Don't complain when your fired at the drop of a hat when someone decides you are expendable.
If the employer is ashamed to announced their wage in the job posting, I'm not even gona bother applying. Literally every job I've seen the employer being obscure about the wage being offered, they turned out to be really shady.
In my opinion, you should never ask about pay during an interview. The employer should bring it up. Whenever negotiating, the first person to speak almost always loses out.
My first job it never came up and I found out on my paycheck what I made. So neither of us spoke and I still lost. Given it was Dairy Queen but you get what I am saying.
Exactly why you should bring it up. At the end of the interview asking for a range on what they are payong for the position is good. You get them to give you a number first.
@@charper9890 the guy getting paid is always the one to lose unless you make sure before you start working. It changes depending on the job and the company but I would definitely have said something before working if I was applying to Diary Queen.
I take the approach that an interview is seeing if I’m right for the job - and if the job is right for me. I have even responded in this during interviews when I’ve been asked what are my salary expectations as a way to decline to reply. I don’t want to miss out on being shortlisted as I have high salary expeditions. Once they make a decision and they shortlist me, that’s when I focus in on the remuneration. It also gives you a better negotiation point as you know now that they want you!
I disagree with waiting, what if you have multiple interviews? What if you get two offers? I think asking at some point is acceptable and if a company doesn't think so then I don't wanna work there anyway
This is just a millionare who wants the hardest worker with as little pay as he can give them but its a slap in the face when hes asked about the money🙄
I work very hard for my employers. I always try to go above and beyond. However, I'm solely there to work and get paid. Most people don't have the luxury of doing what they love and these bills aren't going to pay themselves.
No, we know he's applied for work in the very distant past because in one of his shows, he spoke about being fired for no apparent reason and that he still has very low-level bitterness about it. The guy who fired him is dead. So yes, he's applied for work but it was probably decades ago before many of his fellow panellists were even born.
Suspect he has an HR team recruiting and interviewing candidates. Hiring professionals do at times get out of touch with the current landscape. There are multiple generations competing in the workforce today.
No way. You can convince them all you want they may have a cap at 60k, and you’re looking for 85k it’s a waste of time. Salary should be mentioned within the screening call, latest second call.
That was a really good point they both made. You have to put water in the bucket or else there won’t be any water to take And this is an entry level job where you’re up against a lot of candidates so put your best foot forward. Coming from somebody who is always going for the next opportunity when it comes to pay this was a huge wake up call. Thank you for covering this topic!
The pay rate should be in the application and shouldn’t have to be asked about. Full stop. I don’t think it’s useful to waste ones time or the interviewer’s time by doing an interview just to find out that the pay isn’t worth the position.
If you google the company on the web it’s posted somewhere. I checked even my current job and it’s correct. Also when applying if it doesn’t have the salary or pay rate forget it!
Why do we work? To get money. That's why we wake up early in the morning and go to work. To provide for ourselves and our families. I don't understand why pay isn't disclosed on job postings or in the interview. This occurs way too often even for higher paid positions. Although most usually disclose the pay with the job offer
The U.S. is so backwards in this case. It is probably one of the few developed countries where businesses reign supreme over the common voter, consumer. Businesses should feel obliged to have someone work for them and even that, pay enough for the worker to show up at the job each day. They would still turn a profit (probably not as much had they offered lower), but ethics plays a large role in investing.
@@wewhoareabouttodiesaluteyo9303 yeah dude, America is "backward" because people ask about wage in the middle or end of a job interview, insteading of demanding stuff before the first greeting comes out? Do you hear yourself
@@obo2999 It should never be "the people" should be asking. If you are an ethical business owner, everything about your business should be told upfront. Why are you wasting someone's time, keeping information from them? Remember, you are not doing anyone favors by giving them a job. You should be thankful they are even allowing your business into their community.
Totally disagree. A wage/salary is how someone puts food on their table, so they should absolutely ask about that during an interview. If an employer isn't willing to discuss salary then they're attempting a bait and switch... If a company wants to pay the minimum possible for a position, then they better expect minimum possible talent/effort in return.
This is true but unfortunately employers generally have the leverage to dictate the salary discussion, the only time they tread different in this aspect from my experience is if they want you badly for the position. The two highest positions I secured salary was never mentioned at all, the interview was completed and 2-3 days later an offer was made in each instance.
I live in California and there is a pay transparency law. However some of the jobs will post very wide ranges for salary like a 50k range. This makes it hard. However , I completely disagree with Dave. At the end of the day companies will not think twice about laying you off if they have to. They are there to take as well. Maybe there are different ways It can be asked. But you are exchanging time for money. It’s nothing else. I used to make the mistake of getting too emotionally involved with my job and now I realize it’s just that, a job. Because they will lay me off in a heartbeat if they need to and it’s happened to me in the past. So I have a different attitude about all of this and I think Dave you are wrong.
Dave is right in that it should def come up in the first interview. And don’t just give your requirements. Make sure it’s in their range before you move on.
As an employer, I would always discuss pay on the first interview. I don’t want to waste anyone’s time. At the end of the day that’s a key point and they may like the job but if the money is not right for them they won’t take it. In the meantime they could be missing out on something that’s more appropriate for them and we could miss out on a person that matches the job we offer. This applies specially to people changing industries, I’m in tourism, not the best paid industry. In fact, if they didn’t ask for it, I would think they are not interested.I should mention I’m in Australia, maybe in US is different.
If a boss is telling me what they expect from me, they also have a responsibility to tell me what they are going to give me for working for them. It's a two way street. I agree with what Dave said, asking about money right out front is bad but after that you should.
I am trying to move up in a similar field... They NEVER match what I am making now. They always want me, but they can't start me "that high". I mean, I don't believe in my current company. Multiple interviews they offer me half or what I asked for.
Never. Unless they explicitly say what your pay will be, don't bring it up. If they ask what you expect, say you're open to negotiation. Maybe give a range that is negotiable.
Do everything possible to avoid providing a range. Many times organizations are willing to offer more than expected for a high caliber candidate but providing a range can negate your ability to secure the highest possible compensation.
With the level of work ethics in the workplace today, businesses should appreciate potential candidates with boldness and tenacity. Many timid workers do just enough and can careless about getting the job done. Knowing the amount of money and benefits you will be earning is responsible and being about your business. Unless the company is looking for mediocracy. In that case, it might not be the company for you.
I don’t get why employers always think we’re in it for some noble cause. If you didn’t pay me I wouldn’t be working, of course money is a large part of it! The culture was manipulated to make discussing salary taboo so they pay you less.
Why not be upfront about pay and benefits? I would hate to look over someone's résumé, interview them, have them check all the boxes in the interview and then find out I can't afford to pay them the salary they require.
This is such archaic advice. Any respectable employer will not waste someone's time by not disclosing at least a salary or hourly range. Ask at the end of the first interview. That's modern respectable advice.
Its shady when companies aren't up front about it. That being said, since many people don't even bother applying I always apply because there will be less competition.
I prefer employers that specify an intended compensation range. No sense in wasting my time or the prospective employer's time interviewing for a position that doesn't meet my expectations for compensation.
If they don't talk to you about pay at the beginning then you need to consider if you actually want to work with them. No need to waste your time interviewing for a job that's gonna pay you peanuts
What I am learning is this salary question can be addressed during the recruiting phone interview. The recruiters I’ve spoken to tell me what the range is for the jobs.
And your SKILLS, EXPERIENCE and ACCOMPLISHMENTS will place you within that range...and location of the actual job can be VERY relevant to compensation...CAlifornia jobs need at least 125%+ of the typical pay generating a pay range for the same exact position)e.g sales rep in Topeka, KS vs one in Manhattan, NY
You should always prepare for an answer before even the first interview. I've been on the receiving end on that question many times and I am left unsure what to say.
If it’s not covered by the employer it shouldn’t be off putting they ask but that’s the issue when you go work for someone else. If you don’t like that you should go to work for yourself.
Agreed reading through the comments I'm pretty confused. I mean I work in biotechnology so maybe it's different but don't most employers ask for a salary range on the application? That's your opportunity to provide your salary requirements so you don't waste their time or your own. A) do the research and know what you are worth B) state your requirements up front otherwise the only person wasting your time is you
Times have changed, especially now. Candidates expect things from employers outside of just employment itself. They ask and setting those expectations on the outset
If you are starting out and have a wide salary range that you're willing to accept, then I would discuss it after you get the offer. If you have a job and are just looking for an upward transition, I would mention it at the end of the first interview. Usually, their HR will mention it on the first interview because it saves everybody time.
I always ask at the end of an interview when they ask if I have any questions. That lets me know what to expect if hired for the job and signing up for before I sign the hiring paperwork. I had one company right in the beginning ask me what me expectant salary was and I wanted more than they was paying. It ended right after that because it was a waste of each other’s time.
I had a job but was looking for another one and during the interview I asked right off the bat to see if it was worth my time however if I didn't have a job currently I might have let it play out a little longer
There's more to compensation than just the job seeker being greedy. I currently have a flexible schedule with weekends off, but my pay is just average. So if I interviewed for something that required working nights and weekends, but I would need a significant salary increase to be able to do that. If I didn't know the pay rate in advance, even applying would be a waste of time.
If you don't know what a specific job is worth, before you apply, you're wasting your own time. Because you might accept a wage that meets your expectations, but is less than what you could get elsewhere, doing the same or similar work.
Being ghosted is a common practice "these days". That's why employers want only on-line applications. Employers who do that are pompous, arrogant, self-important dictators.
Actually, I did go through three interviews and the salary was never brought up until the offer, and it was too low, so a lot of wasted time for both of us. I will be asking their range at the end of the first interview going forward. Thanks
The coffee shop seems like it is definitely acceptable to ask about salary. If you’re going for a CAREER, you focus should be selling yourself and the value you can add. You should be passionate about your job, and if you’re not and just want the money, why should they want you and why on earth would you want the job?
I got into my field solely for the money. All the interviews I did I brought up the pay and benefits it how I decided what company to go with. Now given I have enough self respect that because I chose this line of work I will do the best job I possibly can in a given situation.
@@devenmurray3580 those work, believe it or not...but the exchange rate to dollars is garbage. Sympathy is slightly better tho, if you've got any of that sockpiled somewhere 😝
![ไลฟ์สุ่ม iPhone 295 บาท... โกงมั้ย?[ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.97 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gdstHEE4UUE/mqdefault.jpg)
Couldn't you argue it's the employer who has a take no give attitude if they're just talking about their wants and expectations but not pay? It's a job, I'm here for the pay, why tip toe around that?
Do you think you are the only one interviewing?
@@obo2999 exactly
Agree!!!
Facts!!!!!
100%
Potential employers don't get any of my precious time if they don't disclose at least a range upfront. It's not 1960.
Yes. If it’s gonna be salaried then have to be careful as is..could end up working 60 hours for 40 hour pay.
I totally agree!!!
@cyberguypr Sounds like a "taker" mentality. You need to accept whatever they will give you at the time they decide to hire you. Go into the interview all about what you can give, not what you can take.
@@costco_pizza I know my worth!!
@@costco_pizza Of course is about what value an employer will get out of me. However, it makes zero sense to invest time if they are looking to pay say $70k and I determine my rate to be $120k. To what other's said, I know my worth and don't want them or myself to waste time if we are not in the same ballpark.
An interview isn't just a company seeing if you're worth it. You are also there to judge whether or not they are worth your time as well. I wish I had known this before and maybe I would be working in a better place
The interview is just one source of information. You could also do research about the company and the position by going through news articles, social media, even contacting their HR ahead of time and seeing if that department will disclose the range. I once knew a guy who found out what food truck parks down the block from the company he was looking at. Paid the truck owner $50 to be a cashier for a day to suss out what the company is really like.
@Ryugu true,you got to know when the job is gonna benefit you or not,you have to be greedy,after all It's your life and you do what you can to make it better for you
Gosh. I remember going through such an annoying process. Their offer, after four interviews, was much less than I was already earning. I ask up front now.
@Randall Johnson exactly, I'm trying to get into IT so I don't have experience yet, and yes I wouldn't take dirt pay like 10 an hour for an IT job, but as long as it's somewhat reasonable you just take what you can get, get some experience in the industry, and then try to negotiate higher pay at your job, or start applying for similar positions at other companies with the intention of asking for more
Nicee
I wish they would advertise pay upfront so I wouldn’t waste my time and their time by applying. Every company doesn’t play fair.
most show you their rate on their job advertisement. Even if they don't show, you should probably do enough research to know how much other companies generally pay. The most important key is to get hired first, salary mean nothing when you don't get hired. You can always reject the offer, if you think you are underpay. You should always go to multiples interviews, not just one. From there, you can see which offer is the best for you. Sometime more money does not mean better position.
If you're an applicant to any job and have no clue what it pays that tells me you don't know much about the position your applying for.
@@chrislim7976 No it means that they haven’t disclosed that information. You can research glass door, etc and still not have a true picture. In fact glass door indicates that I am over paid for my position.
@@lgray1967
I don't know what you're arguing about.
The comments aren't related.
I wouldn't hire you based on what you're writing.
@@chrislim7976 Great! I’m not asking you to hire me. You commented on my post. Good night
This is so dumb. Employers ask for all your references before telling you what they pay. If the ad doesn’t list the salary range I won’t waste me time. Transparency is just good business.
@brandon wolf exactly, I'm studying to go into IT so once I get my certs I'm gonna apply to a bunch of places and be all professional and everything and not ask about pay until they offer the job, if they don't offer it then I won't say anything. Once they offer it I'll ask and if it seems too low I'll just ask if they can do more and if they can't then I'll just say no thanks and move on.
Everyone trying to make generalizations when there are different types of jobs and industries. That is what is so dumb.
@@HearMeLearn Sounds like like good way to waste time imo. Posting a salary range just makes sense.
In my area if they dont advertise the pay it is because it only pays minimum wage
Exactly. Fortunately a lot of jobs listed on line show benefits and salary range. Why waste my time and their time if the salary isn't where I'm expecting it to be?
They both act like the candidate is the only one being interviewed. The candidate is absolutely interviewing you, too! I am a recruiter, and we do have people who turn down our offers (and not just solely based on compensation).
Yes, but unless you are at the pinnacle of your field, the employer doesn't need you as much as you need them. With the exception of emergent fields and some robot-proof skilled trades, there is almost always a greater supply of candidates than there is a demand for them.
@@CarlGorn True but the company is not guaranteed to hire a candidate with the same drive and dedication to their craft. Mediocracy is plentiful. Extraordinary is rare.
@@ajoyforlife1 Which is exactly why Dave's advice is good for 95% of candidates. Most people aren't extraordinary, though these days, many people have the delusion that they are. And nobody wants to hire that.
@rylixav - Which doesn't at all mean that the same can't be said of candidates.
In my current position, when pay came up the CEO scoffed at what I told him I was making, and literally said “we pay better, much better than that!” And what they started me at was more than I ever made! I’ve learned to ask what you want for and the worst they say no, the best, they come close to or match to what your want! Just go for it!
I’d want to know before I even apply... I wouldn’t be wasting my time if pay wasn’t right for me
That's actually a much more tactful and proactive way to go about it. Asking in the interview not only makes you look confrontational, but also lazy and stupid, and all that will register in the employer's subconscious so you won't even be thought about. Much better to do your homework on the position before you set foot in the interview.
@@saulgoodman2018 They might, however, tell you how much to ask for. Especially if you couch it as asking them for advice, or for the posterity of research. People love to be seen as an authority on something.
the real question should be why is the job not telling you the range before the first interview. this is a two way street, employers typically always look to take in many instances. salary should be known before first interview.
The opinion of the dark shirt guy is okay for entry level.
- If not entry level salary should be a topic since otherwise it could be a potential waste of everyone's valuable time (salary ranges of employer and interviewer may not even be on the same page).
For a professional position, sure. For a freaking coffee shop job? Nope.
Yeah not asking shows youre desperate. At this point in my career I'm upfront about what I want for my salary. Sometimes they don't go forward with me, but who cares you always find someone who bites!
Theres always Glassdoor.
@@hannahcarney2250 👍
I disagree with Ken. Why waste your time and energy with a job position that won't meet your needs? Ask upfront and don't waste either party's time!
☝️ I agree
I've taken assignments & gone through the entire interview process not knowing the pay. Personally I can't stand not knowing how much a position pays until the end of the interview. Companies should really disclose how much a position pays in the job announcement.
That’s how they get people to come in. Always a secret. Wow this sounds like a great job. Come in to be disappointed/satisfied.
@@AshleeTuck But one would think a business like Costco states "We pay$16/hr. now!" Why would that not bring people in?
@@wewhoareabouttodiesaluteyo9303 ok but the point I’m making is for these silly office jobs or “higher level” jobs. It’s never posted. Use Glassdoor and sometimes they don’t even get the salary right.
@@AshleeTuck I think we are both in agreement about transparency.
I've been in many interviews in my life the salary question always comes up and I would be very weary of a company that does not bring it up
If it's not listed on the job posting , I ask when I get called for an interview. My time is my most valuable resource and I don't want to waste it on a position that is not within my range.
Just put the salary range on the job posting to prevent all of this from happening.
It's a rarity these days that pay doesn't come all the way till the end. Usually in the filtration phase they ask you what your expectations are.
Let's waste an hour and find out it pays $12, no thanks. It should be illegal to not list the pay. When someone asks you to do something you always say how much. Hey can you dig a hole for me? Sure, how much are you going to pay me...
The difference is when you're asked to dig a hole, you are given the job offer. So it's appropriate to ask for the pay. You don't ask for pay right out the gate.
I have never had a job interview where the the interviewer brought up pay.
They have a range so their goal is the minimize the pay on the low end.
One problem with that is pay is like Dave said, a range. Employers aren't going to pay someone with more experience the same as someone with less experience. While I agree with the sentiment that people work for money, and that should be more available information, it isn't always so cut and dry.
@@James-yi1vk if I can't ask for pay information upfront then the company shouldn't ask for my resume upfront. sounds right? actually, it sounds ridiculous. you cant complete a transaction and not know what you are getting. the company's job should be to ensure you are qualified to earn the salary, not to hide salaries and manipulate people.
Usually HR schedules the interview. That is who you want to ask for the salary range so you don't have to bring it up in the actual interview. HR also is usually who calls you back after the interview to offer you the job. It is there where you can do some final negotiation on salary.
Nope. If pay isn’t transparent, get out. Do not “go through the process”, we exchange our work for money. Nothing else.
i agree but there is a professional way asking about the pay and negotiate it. if u came barging into the interview office amd asking about the pay before presenting what u can bring into the table, its ur fault if u dont get the job
@@mynamejeb8743 if the pay isn’t transparent, the job is not worth having. That’s just in my personal experience. These employers need to understand we are trading our time and skills for their money. That’s it.
@@mynamejeb8743 if someone comes in asking about pay, your job should be to verify they are worth it. however pay shouldn't be on the back burner of an interview because no matter how good a job is, if you can't pay the bills then it's not worth it. a jobs needs arent more important than mine
if an employer doesn't like that you put yourself first then find another employer. Dave is dead wrong.
I just had an interview Thursday, and I did ask about the pay range at the end.. I Dont want to waste their time or mine. They either appreciate that or Dont. Not my problem.
I have to disagree. I'm there for the money, you're pay dictates how much is sold to you.
Your
I agree
If it is a great job, you should be there for more than money.
Personal and Professional growth are just as important as your salary.
That can be a stepping stone to another job in your career path.
@@TommyRibs "Personal and Professional growth" don't put food on the table or, as Dave loves to say, keep you out of debt, income does. Please
Value your time people!
Every interaction is a two way street.
If the employer is playing games they can waste someone else's time, not yours.
What about the time-wasting factor, on both sides? If I know that I need $X and it is within the typical range for this job...yet the job pays less than $X...isn't it better to say that upfront and save everyone time and precious resources?
@Pamela, See my comments about a page up that I posted before I saw your question.
How much time are you wasting doing an interview?
@@obo2999 for some reason people think wasting an hour is the end of the world as if they had something better to do at every waking second, but I could understand if it was multiple interviews, or a really long interview just to get offered 10 an hour.
@@HearMeLearn It just doesn't make sense to me. If your objective is to hire someone then you should only talk to people who will be able to accept the wage you are offering. If your objective is to get hired (and you need a certain salary to pay your bills) then you should only talk with employers who have a job that is a potential fit. Job interviews aren't about making friends. Its about finding the right fit for both parties. I don't believe that asking about salary makes you a "taker." I think it makes you a realist.
@@obo2999 most salaried workers have to do a phone or zoom call initially and then an in-person or interview after. many times these professionals work half a day or full day to see what the job is like before accepting the position. if the job is across state lines, the applicant work has to acquire accommodations, transportation, and an airline ticket too to get do the interview. This consumes extensive resources and requires significant effort especially when you aren't sure of job benefits. if a person is applying however for a minimum wage job that interview will likely only be an hour. even then that hour could've been spent in another interview with more favorable offers
Completely disagree. I'm gainfully employed. I'm not going to even interview for a new position if I dont know that the pay is comparable or better.
If asking about pay in the latter part first interview kills the deal, they would not be a very good company to work for.
Exactly
This is a great topic to cover.
Too bad parents dont talk to their kids about this.
@@triple_gem_shining yeah I’m surprised too I feel like it’s a parent job to prepare them for life
@@triple_gem_shining They throw them out at 18 and most parents have a family unit where one of the two is actually biological. They have their own problems.
When the employer asks if you have any questions.. "what kind of compensation package do u offer?"
Ask for the pay range BEFORE the interview. Then discuss when offered.
"competitive" Could be $1 million/hr or $7.24/hr.
Exactly
Unless someone is interviewing for a volunteer position, we DO care about how much the job pays. And I am not ashamed of that. My time is valuable, as is that of the interviewer. Companies waste both by not revealing salary ranges up front. I know of many excellent candidates who won't even consider positions if the pay rate is unknown. You (company owners) are doing yourself a disservice by playing coy with this.
It's owners that are detached. They get a few "best place to work awards" and it goes to their heads.
Exactly. Especially on a cold call from a recruiter. I’ve got a job I like. I’d rather not waste everyone’s time unless you’re potentially going to be paying a lot more than I’m already making. Completely reasonable question and if phrased correctly it shouldn’t be insulting to anyone... heck it just shows that I ALREADY value that companies resources and want to do what’s best for them.
That's not my experience. I have found the first thing an employer will ask is "What are your salary requirements ?" This is before you can even prove that they should hire you. It's nothing but a power play to lowball people on pay.
Most people low ball these days and it definitely takes more time to look for work than to hire.. saying a range of what you're budgeting for a position is just manners.. plain and simple
Weird advice from the "what's your household income?" guy.
I don't think he's ever applied for a job lol
I can see your advice being good when talking about a company like Ramsey Solutions that is a ministry as well and that has a prestigious name, but for the average job it is crazy to expect people to pretend that they don't care about pay. I work for money, not because I think my company is so amazing I just want to give to them. Of course I care about compensation, and not just in a "will be able to survive on it?" kind of way. Being paid is why I work even if I love the work. I did ministry work for a number of years and I loved it and all I got was a small stipend, that's totally different than a BUSINESS expecting that I just want to "bless the boss" and that's why I come to work each day.
What if they are offering too low? Then i wasted my entire time and theirs by not asking earlier.
“Instantly revealed his heart “
The man needs money to survive. Tell him whether or not he’s wasting his time with you. Don’t act like he’s there to serve you first. That’s secondary to survival. Smh people in positions of power man....
I said the same thing, these bills got to get paid, if they pay isn’t adequate why waste both our time
Exactly! The young guy was to the point, which is generally what you want in your company. It's a given that he understands that he has to work for the compensation, especially, as Dave indicated, that the guy was promising in every way. That kid was smart. It was probably his way of filtering out bad employers, and Dave, ironically, revealed His hand.
Do people just not listen. Dave didn't say don't talk about salary. He said don't lead with it, because it leaves a bad impression.
A buisness is taking an investment in you when they hire you. If your attitude is that, you are "only here for money", than why should I invest in you over the guy who wants to grow with the company. Why should the interviewer want to invest in you, when you just told them you would quit and leave for another job at the first oppurtunity?
This mercenary attitude goes both ways. Don't complain when your fired at the drop of a hat when someone decides you are expendable.
If the employer is ashamed to announced their wage in the job posting, I'm not even gona bother applying.
Literally every job I've seen the employer being obscure about the wage being offered, they turned out to be really shady.
employer*
@@wewhoareabouttodiesaluteyo9303 thanks I fixed it
Exactly
In my opinion, you should never ask about pay during an interview. The employer should bring it up. Whenever negotiating, the first person to speak almost always loses out.
That's what I have always been told too.
My first job it never came up and I found out on my paycheck what I made. So neither of us spoke and I still lost. Given it was Dairy Queen but you get what I am saying.
Exactly why you should bring it up. At the end of the interview asking for a range on what they are payong for the position is good. You get them to give you a number first.
@@charper9890 the guy getting paid is always the one to lose unless you make sure before you start working. It changes depending on the job and the company but I would definitely have said something before working if I was applying to Diary Queen.
Oh I agree. I messed up on that one.
I take the approach that an interview is seeing if I’m right for the job - and if the job is right for me.
I have even responded in this during interviews when I’ve been asked what are my salary expectations as a way to decline to reply. I don’t want to miss out on being shortlisted as I have high salary expeditions.
Once they make a decision and they shortlist me, that’s when I focus in on the remuneration. It also gives you a better negotiation point as you know now that they want you!
I disagree with waiting, what if you have multiple interviews? What if you get two offers? I think asking at some point is acceptable and if a company doesn't think so then I don't wanna work there anyway
This is just a millionare who wants the hardest worker with as little pay as he can give them but its a slap in the face when hes asked about the money🙄
Welcome to Capitalism.
I work very hard for my employers. I always try to go above and beyond. However, I'm solely there to work and get paid. Most people don't have the luxury of doing what they love and these bills aren't going to pay themselves.
12-15 an hour at a coffee shop??? Try more like 9.50 an hour plus tips.
Companies are lowering pay.
Depends on the location.
Dave Ramsey hasn’t applied for a job in a long time, maybe not ever.
No, we know he's applied for work in the very distant past because in one of his shows, he spoke about being fired for no apparent reason and that he still has very low-level bitterness about it. The guy who fired him is dead. So yes, he's applied for work but it was probably decades ago before many of his fellow panellists were even born.
But he's hired a heck of a lot of people.
But he interviews people to hire. So he is VERY aware of the process.
Suspect he has an HR team recruiting and interviewing candidates. Hiring professionals do at times get out of touch with the current landscape. There are multiple generations competing in the workforce today.
He's out of touch on a lot of things.
No way. You can convince them all you want they may have a cap at 60k, and you’re looking for 85k it’s a waste of time. Salary should be mentioned within the screening call, latest second call.
Really Dave. People should know how much they can get paid before they waste their time.
That was a really good point they both made. You have to put water in the bucket or else there won’t be any water to take And this is an entry level job where you’re up against a lot of candidates so put your best foot forward.
Coming from somebody who is always going for the next opportunity when it comes to pay this was a huge wake up call.
Thank you for covering this topic!
The pay rate should be in the application and shouldn’t have to be asked about. Full stop. I don’t think it’s useful to waste ones time or the interviewer’s time by doing an interview just to find out that the pay isn’t worth the position.
If you google the company on the web it’s posted somewhere. I checked even my current job and it’s correct. Also when applying if it doesn’t have the salary or pay rate forget it!
Why do we work? To get money. That's why we wake up early in the morning and go to work. To provide for ourselves and our families. I don't understand why pay isn't disclosed on job postings or in the interview. This occurs way too often even for higher paid positions. Although most usually disclose the pay with the job offer
The U.S. is so backwards in this case. It is probably one of the few developed countries where businesses reign supreme over the common voter, consumer. Businesses should feel obliged to have someone work for them and even that, pay enough for the worker to show up at the job each day. They would still turn a profit (probably not as much had they offered lower), but ethics plays a large role in investing.
@@wewhoareabouttodiesaluteyo9303 yeah dude, America is "backward" because people ask about wage in the middle or end of a job interview, insteading of demanding stuff before the first greeting comes out?
Do you hear yourself
@@obo2999 It should never be "the people" should be asking. If you are an ethical business owner, everything about your business should be told upfront. Why are you wasting someone's time, keeping information from them? Remember, you are not doing anyone favors by giving them a job. You should be thankful they are even allowing your business into their community.
I’ve been to interviews where I felt like I was begging for the job
We always put the pay in our employment ad
I disagree . I got played on my first job and learned my lesson. Now I always ask upfront and plan my next move . So far it has worked for the best .
Totally disagree. A wage/salary is how someone puts food on their table, so they should absolutely ask about that during an interview. If an employer isn't willing to discuss salary then they're attempting a bait and switch... If a company wants to pay the minimum possible for a position, then they better expect minimum possible talent/effort in return.
This is true but unfortunately employers generally have the leverage to dictate the salary discussion, the only time they tread different in this aspect from my experience is if they want you badly for the position. The two highest positions I secured salary was never mentioned at all, the interview was completed and 2-3 days later an offer was made in each instance.
Neither of them said don't ask. They said don't lead with that.
I live in California and there is a pay transparency law. However some of the jobs will post very wide ranges for salary like a 50k range. This makes it hard. However , I completely disagree with Dave. At the end of the day companies will not think twice about laying you off if they have to. They are there to take as well. Maybe there are different ways It can be asked. But you are exchanging time for money. It’s nothing else. I used to make the mistake of getting too emotionally involved with my job and now I realize it’s just that, a job. Because they will lay me off in a heartbeat if they need to and it’s happened to me in the past. So I have a different attitude about all of this and I think Dave you are wrong.
I'm with Dave because the ones that don't tell you usually are paying low or minimum wage.
Employers should always disclose wages in adverts, no questions asked.
Put your expectations up front. You have nothing to lose.
Dave is right in that it should def come up in the first interview. And don’t just give your requirements. Make sure it’s in their range before you move on.
As an employer, I would always discuss pay on the first interview. I don’t want to waste anyone’s time. At the end of the day that’s a key point and they may like the job but if the money is not right for them they won’t take it. In the meantime they could be missing out on something that’s more appropriate for them and we could miss out on a person that matches the job we offer. This applies specially to people changing industries, I’m in tourism, not the best paid industry. In fact, if they didn’t ask for it, I would think they are not interested.I should mention I’m in Australia, maybe in US is different.
If a boss is telling me what they expect from me, they also have a responsibility to tell me what they are going to give me for working for them. It's a two way street. I agree with what Dave said, asking about money right out front is bad but after that you should.
I am trying to move up in a similar field... They NEVER match what I am making now. They always want me, but they can't start me "that high". I mean, I don't believe in my current company. Multiple interviews they offer me half or what I asked for.
Never. Unless they explicitly say what your pay will be, don't bring it up. If they ask what you expect, say you're open to negotiation. Maybe give a range that is negotiable.
Do everything possible to avoid providing a range. Many times organizations are willing to offer more than expected for a high caliber candidate but providing a range can negate your ability to secure the highest possible compensation.
I am a job seeker and I am salaried but Dave and Ken Coleman are right.
With the level of work ethics in the workplace today, businesses should appreciate potential candidates with boldness and tenacity. Many timid workers do just enough and can careless about getting the job done. Knowing the amount of money and benefits you will be earning is responsible and being about your business. Unless the company is looking for mediocracy. In that case, it might not be the company for you.
I don’t get why employers always think we’re in it for some noble cause. If you didn’t pay me I wouldn’t be working, of course money is a large part of it! The culture was manipulated to make discussing salary taboo so they pay you less.
Why not be upfront about pay and benefits? I would hate to look over someone's résumé, interview them, have them check all the boxes in the interview and then find out I can't afford to pay them the salary they require.
I just don’t get the appeal with Ken Coleman. 😑
This is such archaic advice. Any respectable employer will not waste someone's time by not disclosing at least a salary or hourly range. Ask at the end of the first interview. That's modern respectable advice.
Its shady when companies aren't up front about it.
That being said, since many people don't even bother applying I always apply because there will be less competition.
I prefer employers that specify an intended compensation range. No sense in wasting my time or the prospective employer's time interviewing for a position that doesn't meet my expectations for compensation.
I have a mortgage rate of 5.65%. Should i refinance my home loan for a lower interest rate or just focus on paying the mortgage off faster?
I’m on Dave’s side in this one.
Remind me not to work for you. You're probably a horrible employer.
Definitely a "yes man"
If they don't talk to you about pay at the beginning then you need to consider if you actually want to work with them. No need to waste your time interviewing for a job that's gonna pay you peanuts
If they never talk about the salary, its probably minimum wage. And if it's minimum wage then they probably won't talk about salary.
What I am learning is this salary question can be addressed during the recruiting phone interview.
The recruiters I’ve spoken to tell me what the range is for the jobs.
And your SKILLS, EXPERIENCE and ACCOMPLISHMENTS will place you within that range...and location of the actual job can be VERY relevant to compensation...CAlifornia jobs need at least 125%+ of the typical pay generating a pay range for the same exact position)e.g sales rep in Topeka, KS vs one in Manhattan, NY
You should always prepare for an answer before even the first interview. I've been on the receiving end on that question many times and I am left unsure what to say.
When I got hired for my entry-level job with the automotive industry. Did not find out until until I found out on my paycheque
It goes both ways if they don't tell u what u get then they r there to take and not to give
If it’s not covered by the employer it shouldn’t be off putting they ask but that’s the issue when you go work for someone else. If you don’t like that you should go to work for yourself.
I always knew my starting salary and current maximum before an interview in my career field.
Due diligence will do that.
Agreed. Due Diligence is a skill most people never learn to acquire.
Agreed reading through the comments I'm pretty confused. I mean I work in biotechnology so maybe it's different but don't most employers ask for a salary range on the application? That's your opportunity to provide your salary requirements so you don't waste their time or your own. A) do the research and know what you are worth B) state your requirements up front otherwise the only person wasting your time is you
@@JessyJess04 no that isn’t always the case.
I disagree with Dave’s as employer, especially with the example he gave about the guy who ask about the salary and benefits package.
Times have changed, especially now. Candidates expect things from employers outside of just employment itself. They ask and setting those expectations on the outset
You don’t until they give you an offer. Then you negotiate.
If you are starting out and have a wide salary range that you're willing to accept, then I would discuss it after you get the offer. If you have a job and are just looking for an upward transition, I would mention it at the end of the first interview. Usually, their HR will mention it on the first interview because it saves everybody time.
Love watching you guys
Touchy subject.......for this particular job..NO....but for a professional job.....it needs to be approached differently.....
Who goes to a job interview not knowing what the pay is?
Absolutely ask about pay, but on the 2nd interview or before signing offer. Know exactly what you are making, to the dollar, before signing.
I always ask at the end of an interview when they ask if I have any questions. That lets me know what to expect if hired for the job and signing up for before I sign the hiring paperwork. I had one company right in the beginning ask me what me expectant salary was and I wanted more than they was paying. It ended right after that because it was a waste of each other’s time.
I had a job but was looking for another one and during the interview I asked right off the bat to see if it was worth my time however if I didn't have a job currently I might have let it play out a little longer
There's more to compensation than just the job seeker being greedy.
I currently have a flexible schedule with weekends off, but my pay is just average. So if I interviewed for something that required working nights and weekends, but I would need a significant salary increase to be able to do that. If I didn't know the pay rate in advance, even applying would be a waste of time.
If they make you work nights and weekends, you have a right to ask for a wage that covers a 15% differential and double time pay on weekends.
If you don't know what a specific job is worth, before you apply, you're wasting your own time.
Because you might accept a wage that meets your expectations, but is less than what you could get elsewhere, doing the same or similar work.
Good advice Dave. Good topic
Even employers who do post their salaries aren't required to stick to it.
I recently interviewed and asked about it in the end. Never got a call back, just got ghosted
Being ghosted is a common practice "these days".
That's why employers want only on-line applications.
Employers who do that are pompous, arrogant, self-important dictators.
I need to know during the phone interview!!! im not gonna waste my time going through the process if im not going to make what im comfortable with
Actually, I did go through three interviews and the salary was never brought up until the offer, and it was too low, so a lot of wasted time for both of us. I will be asking their range at the end of the first interview going forward. Thanks
The employer or recruiter should disclose this early on. Even before a phone screening.
The coffee shop seems like it is definitely acceptable to ask about salary. If you’re going for a CAREER, you focus should be selling yourself and the value you can add. You should be passionate about your job, and if you’re not and just want the money, why should they want you and why on earth would you want the job?
For the money.
I got into my field solely for the money. All the interviews I did I brought up the pay and benefits it how I decided what company to go with. Now given I have enough self respect that because I chose this line of work I will do the best job I possibly can in a given situation.
I cant pay my bills with passion and enthusiasm
@@newchrisontheblok "thoughts and prayers" LOL
@@devenmurray3580 those work, believe it or not...but the exchange rate to dollars is garbage. Sympathy is slightly better tho, if you've got any of that sockpiled somewhere 😝
I don't agree. You should ask what the pay is in the interview.