Finger Versus Table Saw || Testing SawStop Myths
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ค. 2024
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I did set off my SawStop with my thumb. After over fifty years of operating table saws and not cutting myself, I got stupid and ran my thumb into the blade. I did get a little more than a nick, and it did bleed. It also hurt......but my thumb was saved.....but my ego was bruised. I thought to myself, "How could I be so stupid???"
Also, when you get tired and fatigued, get out of the shop.
That’s pretty scary. I get careless sometimes. Might not know your finger was in the path of the saw blade.
As a carpenter for decades and being hurt several times, never more seriously than a few stiches, the thought "how could I be so stupid" has crossed my mind on several occasions! 😣😣 It happens. Most of these accidents did not even include power tools!
My problem with a sawstop is that it can breed complacency and discourage good safety protocols, especially in new woodworkers who may rely on technology instead of self preservation. Some of the techniques I’m seeing on the video are scary with hand placement, particularly reaching for the cut-offs.
@@waynemanning3262That's nonsense.
@@waynemanning3262 Not for me! Seeing a blade spinning still has it effects, even if you do have a sawstop.
Another possibility, home depot stores their wood in the river prior to sale.
My HD is next to a river...
@@michaelballog I must rember never to lumber at B&Q then. Both my local one and next nearest are both next to rivers. Come to think of it a lot of timber merchants are next to rivers. The one that was near to my parents house when I was growing up was next to a river. Must be a hold over from when timber merchants used water powered saw mills to cut their lumber and they never changed the requierments for when thet look for a location to set up shop.
Sure they do - it keeps the wood fresh.
We know that, their construction lumber is pond cured.
In my inexperienced days of buying green lumber, then wondering "Wait, this thing is all warped!"
Thermal conductivity is how well the metal conducts heat, not electricity (more relevant in cooking pans, lol). Fortunately, sources seem to say that aluminum is much more electrically conductive than galvanized steel too
Came here to mention this as well. :)
I didn't think anything in this video could make me cringe so much as his finger approaching the spinning blade, until that failure to understand the difference between thermal and electrical conductivity. 🤦
My guess would be that it's only about the capacitance. The nail and staple are tiny pieces compared to the blade, but the fence is a chunky piece of metal that considerably changes the capacitance when coming in contact with the blade, which impacts the potential yadda yadda, causing it to trip. Which might also be why wet wood can sometimes trip it and sometimes not.
This. You can still sometimes find aluminum wiring in really old houses.
Glad this comment is here!
Craig should get employee of the month for his part in this! Such dedication!! Way to go Craig!
His look of "Things I do to get paid by Jason" is priceless.
Framed picture hanging in the shop and all that.
I feel like Craig's older brothers were the disgusted "costume" guys in the old Alton Brown shows…
To get employee of the month he would have to put his finger in the blade.
Employee of the Moth.
I feel many of the myths about material (like foam, cardboard, etc.) setting off a SawStop are caused by woodworkers doing something stupid, then telling their significant other “I don’t know what happened honey, I was just cutting cardboard.” I have stood next to the SawStop rep at a tool sale and heard a couple of these stories and after they leave he has made some interesting comments about the story’s lack of credibility.
The most interesting story I heard was about an older gentleman that set a SawStop off at Woodcraft during a class, reportedly just cutting wood. The instructor changed out the blade and cartridge and class resumed. About 15 minutes later “boom” he trigger it again. In a more detailed review of the gentleman’s technique, and the small nick on his thumb, it was found he would turn the saw off and place his thumb on the side of the blade to slow it down quicker … setting the saw off.
Great video. Note that with your Saw Stop ready but not spinning you’ll have a green LED. To see if something will drop the blade, push it against the blade while the blade is sitting still such as your finger or wood that is wet with salt water. If the red LED starts flashing then your blade will drop when it is cutting but this testing won’t drop the blade as long as the saw is still.
Good to know! This is the first time I’ve heard this. I'd bet it's in the Instructions!
It is. The bypass mode will also show you if it _would_ have triggered with the same style of light flashing.
Ahh...wood that's wet with salt water makes sense. Now he has to do the video all over again.
Yea. Would have been nice if he would have shown if the saw was signaling it would have gone off.
That's not as dramatic lol
A hidden nail was embedded in a piece of wood I was cutting and made a spark, but didn't set off the blade brake. Contacted SawStop about why it didn't and they responded with the following.
Nails and screws in and of themselves are not conductive enough to cause activation. However, if the operator or the table top is in direct contact with the other end of the nail or screw, a conductive path with be completed as if the blade contacted the person or grounded surface.
In response to your question, the list of electrically conductive materials below are examples of materials which can cause an activation of the SawStop Safety System unless the Safety System is placed in Bypass Mode.
• Conductive metal sheeting such as Aluminum or Copper.
• Grounded metal (e.g., the blade guard splitter, the riving knife, a metal jig, or a metal tape measure touching blade while in contact with the table top.).
• Relatively large masses of ungrounded metal, such as a tape measure not in contact with the table or a combination square or ruler.
• Foil-backed insulation.
• Mirror-backed plastic.
• Metallic paint layers (e.g. gold paint on picture frames).
• Conductive laminate layers (some countertops have a foil layer behind the Formica).
• Materials made from, or containing carbon, such as black melamine or plastic, some black paints, carbon composite or carbon fiber materials
• Electronic circuit boards (because of the conductive layers).
• Uncured glue layers (wet glue is electrically conductive).
• Wet pressure-treated materials (the chemicals used to pressure-treat wood can be electrically conductive when the wood is wet).
• Very wet, especially wet cedar.
If you are in doubt about whether any material poses a risk of activating the cartridge, you can place the saw in Bypass Mode and make a test cut or two. If the material would have triggered the cartridge, the red LED will blink quickly (until the blade stops) to indicate that contact was detected during bypass operation. In this case, you will need to finish all cuts of this material in Bypass Mode to avoid an unintended activation of the cartridge. If the red LED does not start blinking during the test cuts, you can proceed to cut in normal mode.
Note: Every time saw is turned off it resets to normal mode and is no longer in Bypass Mode.
Nails and screws in and of themselves are not conductive enough to cause activation. However, if the operator or the table top is in direct contact with the other end of the nail or screw, a conductive path with be completed as if the blade contacted the person or grounded surface.
Thank you! Somebody dug in asked why. Any good SawStop dealer could explain all of this.
Cam from Black tail had a video where he set one off with a foil lined thing. was wild to see in actual time.
So maybe wear nitrile gloves when you might be touching something conductive. Poor man's electrician insulated gloves.
Ah HA! Maybe the wet wood needed to be the pressure treated type.
" the red LED will blink quickly (until the blade stops) to indicate that contact was detected during bypass operation." ooooooh maaan, so Jason spent how many dollars for his testing ?
Hey Jason, thermal conductivity and electrical conductivity are two different things. Thermal conductivity is how much a material can transfer heat energy. Electrical conductivity is the ability to allow electrons to move. While i haven't looked at the sawstop too closely, i'm assuming it works on another electrical property of capacitance. This is similar to how touch lamps work. Everything has capacitance but the value of it depends on the size of the materials and the dielectric involved (see wikipedia). Its likely a change in capacitance value is likely what sets the saw cartridge off. It shouldn't matter if its galvanized steel or aluminum it will have to do with the size and shape of the object. Similarly, water is actually a bad conductor until it get impurities dissolved in it like salt (its the salt ions that conduct). It could depend on local conditions like humidity and if any contaminates are present to allow it to conduct your capacitance...
I guarantee you there are plenty of dissolved ions in that river water without it being salty.
@@DarkSeraph351 of course there are, but it matters what those dissolved ions are.
@@davekennedy3985not really. Ions are just partickles with charge, react to electric field.
Came to say this. Probably won't get tripped by a nail sized bit of aluminum or a rail sized peice of steel. I would guess that bigger wet log might have too. Good video though.
also wonder if crosscutting the wet wood would matter.
It’s all about capacitance. The system senses the sudden increase in capacitance on the blade. A nail isn’t big enough to hold capacitance.
You can also do this same test way easier without tripping the brake by touching the material to the blade while looking at the lights on the interface near the switch. Anything that would trip your brake will flash a light on contact at the blade.
I'm so glad somebody said it, was about to comment myself, if you want to know why, there are loads of videos about capacitance on TH-cam that'll explain it far better than I could
I agree naturally only it wouldn't have been a very interesting video.
There is rigid foam insulation with foil backing, typically aluminum. This would explain the instance of the saw stopping when cutting foam.
It also stops when you try to cut metal plated egg crate light lens
Been there done that.
Pressure treated lumber has tripped my Saw Stop along with:
* Aluminum
*Plexi Mirror
* Some laminate ( metal or particle metal)
* Different types of flooring
*Carbon Fiber
The sound the Saw Stop makes when engaged is like a gun shot. It will scare you when it happens, but it will remind you to bypass the safety when cutting materials such as aluminum. The safety bypass would be a great thing to cover in your video. The procedure only bypasses the safety for one cut until the switch is turned OFF.
Great video!
we have saw stops where I work, and we use foil backed insulted foam panels, and the backed does trip it
no matter what, trading a blade and or cartridge for a finger is a pretty is a darn good deal
Not sticking your finger in the blade is a good practice, even if you have a Saw Stop.
After these tests SawStop should be offering you a sponsorship. You've convinced me that when I replace my table saw I'll seriously consider a SawStop system.
Just wait. Saw stop just gave the patent away in a move to make all table saws have a similar system. So if you wait a few years grizzly ,Jet, harbor freight even dewalt job saws are likely to require them. Personally I do think it is a good Idea but it should not be required for all saw makers to have to meet. So if you got your eye on a nice non saw stop because you do not want to pay for the tech you best pick it up soon.
Not sure what shopsmith is going to do.
Thank you for this video, which cost a few bucks to make considering those brakes are $120 each, but I think this will educate a lot people on the saw stop technology.
Had a friend get into progressional woodworking. Bought a sawstop rather quickly and almost immediately posted a picture of a tiny little cut on his thumb; like he slipped with a fine rasp. Sawstop saves fingers, no question.
I guess over the decades and all the videos made nobody was willing to spend money on a box of cartridges to run all of these tests. But you stepped up to it and may have saved peoples fingers as a result. The entire world owes you a thank you at least the subset that has a tablesaw.
Now if only Sawstop technology was available everywhere... Festool has a tablesaw with this technology, but a decent carpenter saw is not available in Europe... (yet?)
@@ReinoudvanLeeuwen Festool is one of five brands in the German holding company TTS Tooltechnic Systems AG & Co. KG. These include, among others, SawStop and Shaper. Festool has had the TKS 80 EBS table saw for years. This contains SawStop technology and you can buy it everywhere.
@@needfulthings2701that is the one I was referring to. Certainly a decent saw, but not a cabinet saw
@@ReinoudvanLeeuwensawstop said if the USA passes safety laws that flesh sensing tech is required on all table saws it will give the tech patents to the commuy free of charge. Allowing ball companies to use it
i dont have one, but i had heard that the cartridges run like $800 each. dont remember where i heard that, or if they came down incredibly since then, but his links show them at around $100 each. still not cheap, by any means, but that makes buying a case of them 8 times easier.
Wet wood set off my Sawstop last spring. I was making a rain water stand for my rain catchment tote. I was ripping some pressure treated lumber that had been sitting in the Oregon winter sunshine (AKA Drizzle).
I want to be clear this wood was dry to the touch. The PT 2x4 set off my brake at about 2 inches into the rip. Your results may vary, but the new brake was a $105 mistake that I do not wish to repeat.
My day job has been in ultra-pure water and water treatment for the last 25 years. It is my guess that the toxic metal salts that PT is impregnated with (chromated-copper arsenate) --substantially increases the salinity and the conductivity of the "distilled" rainwater that we are likely to find in wet wood. The fortunate coincidence is that we all have salt-water coursing through our veins. (Harrr).
All the anecdotes I've heard for wet wood involve pressure treated. I think you've got it: the salts improve conductivity.
Cedar triggered my saw stop.
Great video. The one you didn’t test was pressure treated wood. That’s what I have heard unknowingly sets it off the most.
That could potentially make sense; I understand they oftentimes use a solution with copper to treat those, and copper is *extremely* conductive.
Most of the wet wood triggers are pressure treated boards. These are both soaking wet and treated with copper making them extra conductive.
Thermal conductivity is about heat, not electricity. Think of holding a stick by one end while the other is on fire vs holding a metal rod that's had the opposite end in a fire for some time.
I have had two drops, one that I can explain (thumb) and one that I can't. Two Forrest WWII blades were involved, so naturally, once I got the aluminum blocks off, I sent both back to Forrest for repair. One just lost a carbide tooth, easily fixed, and the other had broken an aluminum tooth support, which they couldn't fix. Still, I got one blade fixed, balanced, and sharpened for about $35 with postage, so good to know! It works perfectly again.
Second, you can send the brake controller (just the blue bit) to Saw Stop, and they will look at the data from the trigger to determine if it was a legit trip. They'll replace the cartridge if it's not. It would be interesting to see what SawStop's reports on all of Jason's cartridges said.
I’ve saw a Saw Stop Saw do that probably 5-6 years ago & I was truly impressed. I don’t have a workshop & I’ve never owned a table saw, but I felt comfort in knowing my fellow Woodworking people would be able to walk away from a “Near Debilitating” injury with all of their fingers intact. Thank you SawStop.
Thank you Jason - these devices are important and thanks for discussing them! In 34 years of old home restoration I've employed two carpenters. The first had a short finger, made smaller by a sliding compound miter saw. The second had a thumb that he had reattached after cutting it off on a chop saw - he often said though it functioned okay it still hurt after 5 years and wanted to get it removed permanently. Thankfully neither got injured while working at our home. I'm the only person who got badly cut up on woodworking equipment in my own home. I got a bad slice off a table saw, long before this technology was available, losing a hunk of skin off my thumb. It has healed and is doing fine, works okay, just looks a little weird. Stay safe and thanks again for the vid. If this helps one person think twice to be safe that's a big deal!
I have a CO2 laser that I used to try and cut a 3/4 piece of plywood as a test. The wood was very charred around the edges and the cut was not successful. The charring was all the way through the 3/4 piece of ply, and was quite thick. I cut the wood into scraps and when my SawStop hit the carbon burned area, it deployed the brake. I called SawStop to ask and they reminded me that carbon from burned wood is very conductive. Lesson learned.
We set our Sawstop off twice. Once on the carbon on MDF left from a CO2 laser cut. The other was very wet eucalyptus wood. I made many cuts off the wood before the safety mechanism tripped. Lessons learned. I use bypass with any wet or weird material.
I feel personally attacked.
bahahahahaha. Thanks Jono!
It was awesome, though!!!! 😂😂😂
Hopefully not like one of these sausages!
But your one expensive bottle of whiskey richer…😅
@@make-somedust but..... is he??? It didn't trip on everything metal. Only the aluminum, which kind of makes them both right. 🤔🤔🤔
Always admired the "Harbour Fright" good business man!
We had 3 Saw Stop saws in our shops and the only time we saw them trigger was for fingers or pressure treated wood. I know saw stop tools are expensive; but they are extremely cheap when compared to an emergency room visit. Not to mention any reconstructive surgery. Back in the day before we had these tools I got nibbled on and lost a good deal of the skin and pad of my left thumb. It was covered by worker's comp (thank the Lord!) and the final cost of the E-room, skin graft surgery, follow-up doctor visits and physical therapy was over $20,000. The cost of all three Saw Stop table saws was just north of $10,000. Like everyone always says, "Do the math." We worked with students at a large land grant university and figured that we couldn't afford NOT to get the Saw Stop saws.
If only insurance would pay for a SawStop lol
@@davekennedy3985 Yeah, no kidding. Unfortunately, everyone in the medical community is making money off worker's injuries with what they charge the government through worker's comp.
I disengaged my SawStop brake from my blade by placing the blade in a vice and using a brass hammer, I tapped the brake off. I thought the blade looked real good, but when I had it sharpened, the shop said it was a bit bent, but they straightened it. It works fine now.
Amazing amazing amazing amazing. THE saw stop video of all saw stop videos. Testing exactly what so many of us wonder before delving into the world of saw stop AND… how far can one machine go. The best. Thank you
After hearing a common theme "It happened so fast" or "what was I thinking". I did the math and bought a SAW Stop. Funny thing is I rarely use it since adopting mostly hand tool work. I have a friend that last week put his thumb into the saw blade. Nice video!
I think the fence of the Rockler sled was setting it off because metal was connected to the table of the saw through bolts and miter slots, etc completing the circuit. The nails and staples didn't set it off because they were floating in the wood and therefore insulated. If you'd have driven a nail deep enough, or flipped the board over, so the metal was in contact with the table, it would have set the saw off, I bet. Either way, you don't owe anyone any bourbon ;).
I am so glad I wasn't the only one to notice this.
I would be my life that the hardware is countersunk and doesn't touch the saw. If it did it would scratch your saw every time it was used. Not enough current here to jump the gap.
The runners on his crosscut sled are not metal, and the bottom face of them is not contacting the bottom of the slots on his table, so there's no electrical continuity there.
@@tjp148 is it the volume of the fence, then?
Craig, thank you and your hair for your contribution to science
Soak the board in saltwater. You need some salinity in the moisture for it to conduct electricity.
Wow, thank you so much for doing this video. I have a Sawstop and was really interested in your results.
Lol, that jump cut near the end made me laugh out loud. Very entertaining video!
I set off my 1.75 hp 110V Sawstop when the blade touched the head of a steel wood screw in 3/4" plywood.
I got a Sawstop about 6 years ago and wouldn't even consider another brand. I have also wondered about whether the mechanism works as the blade is slowing down, and I'm glad to see it does. Thanks for taking one (or 7) for the team, Jason!
The one point that I haven’t seen mentioned in any video of these Saw Stop is after the brake has been activated and the blade has dropped , after replacing the brake and blade the next step is to turn the handle for raising and lowering the blade down to the lowest setting before the height adjustment actually works again. After witnessing the hotdog 🌭 test at the woodcraft in Springfield Oregon and everyone walked away I stayed and watched them replace everything, I asked after the blade drops how do you get it to raise back up , it obviously wasn’t attached anymore to the mechanism that raises and lowers it , this part is just as important as the technology . Thanks the video
With out a doubt, the most educational and entertaining woodworking channel on you tube, perhaps the world. Thanks for going broke running this test. Great stuff.
Indeed. 170 usd a pop and a 200 usd blade. But, all we wanted to know about sawstop. Wish we could buy those in Europe.
@@rpaasse6453 SawStop is unavailable in Europe? Curious as to why?
Festool has a portable table saw with sawstop tech, only available in the EU. As for a full size or cabinet table saw, I think Felder is the only one with finger saving tech, although I'd different from sawstop.
@@grantman1148 Yes unavailable. I guess becouse of pattents and its a Usa made saw.
@@FranciscoDuarte Festool does have it in Europe on tablesaws, no cabinet saw i think. But given the choice i would buy a sawstop. ( have a De Walt now, its great to )
That power off safety on feature is clutch
The saw will even tell you. After you turn it off via the paddle, the green indicator will blink as the saw is spinning down, indicating it's still in a state where it will trip. The real question is, will it still trip if you cut power using the switch instead of the paddle?
Jason, great video. One thing you didn't test was pressure treated wood. Shortly after getting my SawStop, I made several cuts through pressure treated 1/2 inch plywood. I couldn't turn my saw off other than to unplug it. It didn't set off the brake, however, it blew out my "Switch Box and Contactor Assembly". Replacement was expensive.
That took a LOT of effort. Thank you. Very, very informative.
I just made dados on 4 x 4 posts that were quite wet yesterday and i forgot to deactivate the system. It took 5 seconds and boom, the dado blade was stuck in the cartridge. My experience is that it does work with wet wood.
Treated wood is salty and very conductive. Regular water won't do it. It's actually about capacitance. Read up on it. It's part of conductivity, but more related to the size of the conductive piece. You holding a Weiner will set it off. A Weiner hanging from a string won't. Don't let Weiner touch the tabletop because then it becomes part of the capacitance - and it will trigger.
What we really discovered is that the future material to be used for our energy transmission is hot dogs.
Room temperature superconductor literally under our noses this whole time!
Get ready for the Matrix. Just replace Morpheus's battery with a hotdog.
Yes, 30-32% is what's called the fiber saturation point (FPS, Bruce Hoadley). Inside wood the cellulose has bonded to as many water molecules as possible which, bonus fact, also makes the wood swell which is why you space your deck boards so when they get wet they don't split and warp. Everything beyond around 30% in just about every wood is actually filling the cells and depending on those cell structures could hold onto water a long time (oaks in particular) or release it pretty quick (pines, cedars and spruces). Also to really get a lot of water in the cells you have to completely submerge the wood for several days and not just let it sit on top of the water. That being said, the amount of water you tested with is the most realistic wood saturation you'll see, no reason to waste another cartridge. I enjoyed the Mythbusters style testing for sure!
Wet wood will trigger the sawstop. I have done it, unfortunately. But I think the key is it wasn't just wet wood. It was 3/4" wet pressure treated plywood. I think the copper based fluid they put in the plywood has enough capacitance to fire the brake.
A few weeks later, I was cutting some EPS foam that was going to be used as insulation under my concrete floor. It had a foil face to it, and I didn't think about the brake with the foam. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I had the foil face down (touching the table top), and that triggered the brake.
One of the two blades lost a tooth. But that was cheap blade and I was planning to replace it anyways. The other was Woodworker II and it was absolutely fine and I'm using it still.
Very impressive video Jason, especially the participation of JKM. I still think people should be scared shitless of kickback, even if they have a Saw Stop.
"What did we learn in this video?" Well, this gal learned she was simultaneously more and less afraid of table saws. I love the idea that I'd get to keep my digits, but the sound of the blade locking on the break would probably give me a minor heart attack. Lol
The replacement cost of the cartridges hurts too..
@@msmith2961hurts less than American health care costs!
Good for you! And yes when you set it off it sounds like a gun shot! It will get your attention.
YEP! I love our Sawstop. It is so damned complex sometimes, but it's got almost no vibration, & so much protection against American health nightmares.
Watched this Saturday. Sunday my brake activated with wet, pressure treated wood. Give that a shot. It ran one plank, then tripped on the second.
Love the addition of the fast forward sound effects lol. Very JD-esque 😂
I always enjoy your videos and always find humor in them, but I actually laughed out loud when I heard “so that means a tortilla will set it off”. Thanks Jason.
What you’re likely to trigger the most….is that AvE dude😂
ROFLMAO I used to follow him then he started attacking some of my favorite youtubers with total lies.
@@pctatc66I think he got ahold of a bad batch of Kool-Aid!
Craig plays the "comedic straight man" so well! 😂
I did set mine off with wet cedar. I had made multiple cuts through this lumber and for some reason a random board set it off.
Gentlemen, keep the magic hotdogs off of the table saw.
Don’t touch the hot dog!!!
I rather like my hotdog.
Never use your magic hotdog as a push stick.
@@brianreddeman951 yeah... Magic...
@@brianreddeman951 lol
Your crosscut sled has hardware through the aluminum down through the base. That completes the circuit. The nail in board just never happened to touch the table and blade at same time
I'd bet my life that the hardware is countersunk so that it doesn't touch and scratch the surface of your table saw.
@@carlstrohm3785 It appears as if there is a conductivity path between the fence and the rail. This would have completed the circuit.
@@wellwornpast the crosscut sled is not touching the fence at all. There's a couple plus inches between the two.
The sawstop doesn't work by detecting a completed circuit. It works by detecting something with human-body-like capacitance (which is also how the touch screen on your phone works).
I was going to comment the exact same thing, I don’t think it has anything to do with aluminum vs steel, it is that the fence completed the circuit somehow through the bolts that are connected to the runners and the table top, connecting it to ground and tripping the wire.
It makes more sense to me than any “aluminum is more conductive “ reasoning
Might be wrong though 🤷
Electrician here. For metal, it's mostly based on resistance and conductivity. Aluminum is a much better conductor, but there are a lot of other factors also. The amount of material (the fence being much larger), being painted, galvanized coating, etc. As far as water setting it off, water is actually not very conductive by itself; it's the minerals in the water that can conduct electricity. If you used salt water, it would most likely have tripped. So for wet wood, it's based on what chemicals are in the wood that may trigger it.
EXACTLY!
You just sent chills down my spine!! I had to close my eyes when your finger was the test subject 😮
If you really closed your eyes and didn't see, go watch again for a good laugh.😅
We need a crossover with ElectroBOOM to explain the electrical properties of the SawStop break.
It uses a micro amp 3v sensor on the blade.
When it detects a significant amplitude drop, it triggers a gated capacitor that sends enough electricity through the trigger wire to vaporize it similar to burning an old bulb filament.
With the trigger wire gone the action spring engages causing the break to clamp and the articulate arm to pull down mechanical.
It essentially works like the dastardly child of a snare trap and a circuit breaker.
All this takes 6x less time than an airbag deployment
love that you went and soaked a board in a river for two days instead of doing it in a tub
Found you.
yaas king, I've hit tons of staples and nails and never set it off. I've had people argue with me on reddit over it.
Thanks for showing all this in regards to the Sawstop as I am considering getting one
Thermal conductivity? That's not electrical conductivity, mate. Short the blade out to the table via the metal, see what happens then.
Current is not measured in volts - He got the point across though. Aluminum is likely the most common metal cut on a table saw, so for some folks that's an issue. If you rub a couple pieces of that foam together a bit you'll definitely get a static charge. Thus, if you grab a sheet off of a stack of foam panels you would have a higher potential for tripping the saw stop. You spent a lot of money to make this video, and I thank you!
I hope Sawstop hooks you up! As always, great video.
Not gonna lie, when i saw you put your finger there at the end my heart rate spiked... then the cut in with the sausage was pure genius. Agree with the other comments, you did an awesome job with this review and I will buy a sawstop next time around
Using a Forrest blade to test this is pretty heartless to us have-nots!
Amen!! Should have sacrificed a garage sale blade
Not to mention that he tested the "Will it stop for metal?" on a $200 Rocker crosscut sled. He clearly knew it would be okay but I almost gasped in dismay. Lol
That Forrest Woodworker II blade at the start is $160 new
Water is not conductive. But salt water is. Soak the wood in salt water and the brake will go off. Treated wood will also set it off because copper is extremely conductive.
I was hoping for a copper nail, betcha that would set it off!
wow, there is more wrong than right here....
1. Water is conductive
2. Wood treatment is done with copper SALTS that are non-conductive after drying. It's orders of magnitude less conductivity than tap water. There is not metallic copper in treated wood.
3. The way the detection works does not rely on _good_ conductivity.
4. Wet wood can, but does not have to trip the system. That's what the test function is for.
Really? So your saying the radio in a bathtub thing isn’t real?
Pure water isn't conductive, but you're never going to encounter truely pure water outside of very specific industrial or lab settings. For all practical purposes, water is conductive.
I remember being taught distilled water is not conductive (I'm too lazy to go test some with a meter) but it's all the dissolved minerals and other salts in "normal, fresh" water that makes it conductive. Salt water is even more conductive with the higher concentration of NaCl.
Thank you for the experiments. Great video. We all sweat differently and in my case with damp boots or sneakers from walking in the yard, sweaty feet and a damp or wet board, if one hand was resting on the table and the other hand pushing the damp board into the saw I would be cautious about setting off the safety switch. Again well worth watching.
Yup. I have my personal, triggered cartridge that I caused by barely touching a blade. It had spun down, almost to nothing, after I had turned the the machine off. I didn't think I had even touched the blade, and, eventually, decided that a tiny abrasion on my finger must have been the point of contact. It didn't even bleed.
The thing works.
Safety glasses,ear protection,tucked in shirts, and no unbuttoned long sleeve shirts and the proper handling of table saws. My jr high school wood shop teacher taught me well and as an incentive he would deploy the paddle of correction. Half inch thick and holes in it to suck up the meat as he would say plus good wrist action, guaranteed to lift you off the ground. My dad didn't use hearing protection for all those years he worked making cabinets and stuff. I felt sad for him one morning as it was sleeting outside and he couldn't hear the sleet bouncing off the window AC unit. I did get him a personal headphone amp that hangs around the neck so that he could enjoy hearing as well as watching his favorite tv shows. One day my dad accidentally cut off the end of his thumb while using a table saw at work. Insurance helped pay for heating fuel oil that winter. Us kids stayed warm. 😊
The answer has and always will be.......keep your hands away from the blade.
The wood can drag your finger into the blade too
@@lechatbotte. not if they are not close enough to the blade. Use a jig
@@lechatbotte.not if you have a guard and use 2 birds mouth push sticks as is common practice in Europe
I've retired from 25 years of doing anesthesia. What I've learned is that even meticulously careful people will make a mistake, usually due to a moment of lapsed concentration. That's why I embrace technology which enhances a patient's safety. I've also spent my life riding motorcycles. I know that very experienced and careful riders will sometimes crash. That's why I always wear safety gear while riding. It's a fallacy to think that "because it hasn't happened to me, it won't". We're human, we make mistakes, and THAT's why I use a SawStop.
Great Video. I have never commented on a video before but the comments on this one got to me. I have lost a finger and damaged another in a kick back incident on an older Craftsman table saw with no riving knife. I will never operate a table saw again without this technology. And by the way the sawstop I purchased is a huge upgrade in quality from my old Craftsman.The cost of the Sawstop was far less than the cost of the multiple surgeries I underwent.
Impressive pile of “money” in that pile of expended stopper doodles. Thank you, thank you, thank you for this video! You da man!!!
Dude please don’t become a caricature of TH-cam thumbnails. Sick of seeing every channels thumbnails slowly turn into dramatic open faced “everything is horrible” just for attention and clicks.
I don't like it either but it pays their bills so I don't blame them. Give them a little grace if you know the channel produces quality videos.
Helps the algorithm and it’s not your channel. If you don’t like it, change the channel.
I suspected this and will not watch the video. It is dishonest and flippant about a very important topic.
@@joshhuggins”It pays the bills” can be used to defend nearly every abhorrent behavior on the planet, and kind of proves the OP’s point. I already don’t click on “I Ruined This $24,000 Table” videos, not because I’m not interested in the content, but because I feel it’s dishonest and tacky and I don’t want to reward them with my attention. These guys want views and they also want to know when potential viewers don’t like what they are doing.
Thumbnails are there to catch the attention of random people. Not fans or subscribers. We were gonna watch his newest video regardless.
I get so sick of seeing entitled babies complaining about such unimportant stuff. It's your one-sided parasocial relationship thinking that he should be above that or it's some Karen instinct inside of you. It's ridiculous to complain about something so unimportant unless it's actual clickbait that wasted your time.
I'm glad I have a SawStop.............well worth the peace of mind.
Thanks! I suspected the blade would trip while still spinning when the power was off. Happy to know the safety is there.
Was planning on keeping my Powermatic 66 forever until the findings at 28:15 of this video. Definitely upgrading to a Sawstop now. Who knew? Thanks for the video!
I was cutting melamine that had been sitting outside for a long time with my saw stop and it set it off. I wasn't expecting anything like this although I had my saw set off before when I hit the blade with my aluminum crosscut sled. I was holding the fence when it went off. Since it costs about $200 to replace the brake and the blade, I now always turn off the stop feature when I'm cutting repurposed wood just in case there are any hidden pieces of metal.
This is a great video to see what will set the SawStop off since you never know what will and what is safe. Thank you for spending all that money for replacement brakes so I don't have to. 😁
Love how Jason just burns through $1,000 worth of Saw Stop brakes just for this video. I'm here for it buddy!
Thumbs-up for Craig for his contribution to science! ❤
Amazing!!
once again sir, the sound effects really do something for me when watching your videos, great touch!🤓
A capacitor is constructed with, basically, two conductive plates separated by an insulator. The aluminum plate is capacitively coupling to the tablesaw top, with enough surface area to make a "good" coupling that trips the detection threshold. A nail is too small to make a good sized plate that couples to the system. The whole thing works on a capacitive detection scheme, they note that in the patent.
I design capacitive touch panels for a living, all of this is central to my work so it's really easy to piece this together :)
Thank you for the details
Great video Jason....answered lot of questions
The one "wet wood" thing you missed was pressure treated wood. My dad set his off a couple times while ripping a bunch of pressure treated lumber … but in that case, SawStop told him it wasn't the moisture, but that the pressure treatment contains copper. The damp wood just made it more likely for clumps of wet coppery saw dust to build up inside the saw near the blade to the point that it activated the mechanism.
I've also set mine off by getting the blade pinched in the kerf on my crosscut sled (cutting a thin sliver off of some punky wood), though I have no idea how you would replicate that scenario (and talk about risk bending the arbor trying to dislodge the blade from the crosscut sled in order to even get access to remove the blade).
Isn’t it a great feeling to be able to do an honest and open review of a product when it’s not free from
A sponsor? 😊
Our son worked in a shop with a SawStop. He said that cutting pressure treated wood would set it off.
the balloon on the stick got me. Your jolt when it popped made me laugh
Fantastic video. I love my sawstop and this is great info for the hobby woodworker like me. Thanks!
The wood that set mine off was treated wood. I set mine off a couple of weeks ago while it was off and winding down. It didn't "pop" so I thought it was fine. It felt as subtle as touching a cat whisker. Then when next I went to use it, I discovered it had been set off. I just couldn't hear it and it didn't drop but was firmly entrenched in the aluminum. Amazing technology. Also, reading all these comments, I think we can get a degree in electrical engineering. 😋
The rotational energy of the blade and motor pushes the blade down when the brake stops the blade. If the blade is not rotating very quickly, there is not enough energy to push the blade&motor down, and probably not much energy to make noise. The wire vaporizing is probably not the source of the pop noise
@@johnhaller5851 Thank you for explaining that!
@johnhaller5851 yhea I'd imagine the pop is either the rapid clamping or the mechanical action of the spring.
Great information. Thanks for the demo.
The authenticity is impeccable. Love your videos brother
i just want to point out (i'm just after you did the nail and confirming on the pc) copper is used for electrical feeders/conductors. aluminum is a second option for electrical feeders for cost saving measures in construction. So aluminum being more conductive makes sense. You have to size it a little larger than copper but that tracks. if you cut copper, it would trigger the same as aluminum.
Ah good memories. My woodshop course in college had one of these. The rule was, if you triggered the saw stop, the ruined blade stopped by someone then got signed by them, and hung on the The Wall Of Shame as a warning to others.
I set mine off with an aluminum angle gauge for tapering table legs. I was touching the aluminum. On another note, I tried to rip a soaking wet treated 2 x 6 from the big box store. Instead of tripping it sort of bogged down and quit turning as if it were under powered. Did it twice. I called SawStop and the Tech guy said, "you were warned". If my hand had been on the wood closer to the blade it probably would have tripped. It was cheaper than a fired cartridge and much cheaper than the emergency room. I liked it.
I’ve had two of them for around 10 years now, I’ve had a variety of different materials set mine off.
I have no clue how it works and honestly don’t care. All I need to know is I don’t ever have to anyone including myself lose a digit.
I lost the tip of my index finger 20 years ago on a table saw so as soon as heard about it I bought one. Two weeks later I bought another.