Jack the Ripper Police Suspect Investigated
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2023
- Welcome to the House of Lechmere
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In this episode Edward Stow examines one of the three leading police suspects named in both existing versions of the so-called Macnaghten Memorandum. It will become clear that no reliance whatsoever can be placed on the opinions and knowledge of the senior Scotland Yard Police Officers involved in the hunt for the serial killer known to history as Jack the Ripper - particularly Melville Macnaghten and Robert Anderson.
For an interesting discussion on the origins of the Macnaghten Memorandum, see this dissertation by Stewart P. Evans:
www.casebook.org/dissertation...
With thanks to Mike Pemberton for the colourisation of the Charles Lechmere photograph and the excellent animations of Lechmere.
Mike's TH-cam channel can be found here: / @pembysgamingworld
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 68 | คู่เอก "พระจันทร์ฉาย vs โจนาธาน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/F3IM3w-XchI/mqdefault.jpg)
One of the things you and Mr. Holmgren have done so well is to explain *why* the police missed Lechmere: they had a completely erroneous idea of *who* would be the type of person to commit the murders - it was almost certainly "a crazy foreigner" in their minds. It's the same today: Lechmere's rejected as a suspect because he's not exciting enough for conspiracy theories! (Well, that and the fact that solving the murders ruins the Ripper cottage industry).
👍
The 'red flags' bunk is absolute Nonsense. He provided Zero 'conclusive proof' that Lechmere is the ripper. He is less than useless at this game & can't even answer as to where Lechmere must have had the Bloody knife & what about bloody Hands & likely blood other places that he could not have known about when he approached Paul. What fn knife killer would Ever approach someone to Identify himself? LOL.
@@bethryan9077you keep posting the same rubbish 😂
@@OoxB505 You kids Really need to stick to your TV crime shows that tell ya the beginning, the middle & the end. Clearly the True crime videos are Way over your head sweetheart & how about you Stop stalking me ya thing.
This is another excellent and absorbing delve into JTR territory. This episode in particular, demonstrates perfectly why not to just take the police word alone for any suspect.
Exactly
I subscribed as soon as you said someone was trying to get you banned. I'm sick and tired of these people who don't have a live and let live attitude. I believe in free speech and I'm beginning to get very worried about the state of affairs in the world today.
I see lots of things I don't agree with but I don't want anyone banned, unless they call for violence.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks
Really enjoy your work. Shame about the drama, I think channels likes yours are what youtube SHOULD be.
Thanks
Hi. I didn't think he could go any further with Charles' scenario but Mr. Stowe is now expanding the net to cover more rippers and alike with explanations for a broader viewing experience into this cold case.
Really enjoyable as always.
Thank you - I saw your comments on jtr forums
Hi Ed, some of my recent comments Now I have had time to reflect I laugh at Hartley.
I like that you expanding the cold case so new people will get a better understanding of the involvement and immensity of what this involves.@@thehouseoflechmere9407
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 you wont see me unsubscribing anytime soon. absolutely love your channel.
@@thedisabledwelshman9266
That's what I like to hear!
Superb content as always, Edward! Thank you!
My pleasure!
Another astounding video analysis! I have remained silent when viewing your work here to expose Lechmere for the most part, but seeing you holding up and talking about the late great Philip Sugden's Complete History brought back memories as I still own my copy of the book from the mid-nineties. I also agree on it being one of the most realistic and least nonsensical works on the subject. Keep up the great and fascinating observations!
Thank you
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 You are welcome my friend
Fascinating ! Bravo. You’ve obviously done your homework. Thank. you
Many thanks!
Given his background Melville would've recognised a tea-leaf when he saw one and had them arrested, but when it comes to a serial killer, he may as well have studied PG tips as PC tips for the good it did him. Whenever i hear the term 'homicidal maniac,' in relation to suspects in this case, im more inclined to rule them out, as it denotes a lack of control and an inability NOT to draw attention to themselves. Thanks Edward for another great video. Don't stop, no matter how the other side try to drag you down.
Yes - the idea that a serial killer like this was a homicidal maniac is one of the manufacturers idiotic preconceptions that distorted the investigation.
Excellent research! You've definitely studied other suspects as scrupulously as you've studied Lechmere.
Thank you!
U think if he studied joe barnett who abberline arrested Twice yous see real circumstantial evidence 💯 ⚖️ 🗽 but he knows that! 🤔
Thanks Ed always look forward to learning from you
They are worried, Edward. Trying to stamp you out is a sure fire admittance of being worried. Nobody worries about the ridiculous. People only worry about the serious and what they can't control. The idea that yourself and Christer may well have solved this case really troubles them.
Excellent episode once again. Your knowledge of everything JTR never ceases to amaze me.
PS) I live just up the road from the old Banstead lunatic asylum. A fifteen minute walk away 😉
I used to live in Wallington. The mum of one of my school mates worked there. Banstead was the local insult for stupid.
Stop ball licking , Lyndon 🤣 ffs wise up! Edwards 10 red flags !¿ have no one worried ! I grew up in wally land should be , Edward have them worried my balls ! Grew up shankill Belfast 🔪 knife killers don't linger about and if u do catch up with them your next 😉 🏳🏳🏳🏳🏳🏳🏳🏳🏳🏳 ffs Robert paul was a scared off his own shadow! First statement ✍️ 📰 🗞 compared to following weeks we're he's on the payroll 💸 💰 🤑 💲 💵 alone would collapse any case actually called ⚖️ 🗽 perjury but anyway ! How's you Chris u absolute 💯 👀 impertinent unethical ignorant ass 🕳 Matthew Lawtown indeed ! 😂 no don't think so 🤔
@@thehouseoflechmere9407
Haha I've never heard that one before. I know Wallington well too. My aunt lives there. I'm in the clever side of Banstead not the Belmont stupid side. 😉 😁
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Certain Ripperologists seem almost jealous that the case is basically solved by other people, and not them. That’s why they keep pushing their own suspects who cannot be placed at any of the JTR crime scenes.
Well narrated and lovely backdrops👍
Thanks
I'm surprised that you say someone has tried to get your channel banned. What's the matter with these people? If I come across something on You Tube that I don't like or can't agree with, guess what? I don't watch it! You obviously do your research well and you always present an interesting case. I'm all for you. Keep up the good work!
There are some very weird people involved in 'Ripperology'.
Excellently researched and put together sir ( as per usual ). Keep up the good work !
Thanks, will do!
Based on the points referred to in your video there’s little wonder that the culprit was never caught is there ?
Another highly entertaining film.
Ha - yes!
What an ending! I didn’t expect that
I really enjoyed this video. Fascinating stuff!
Brilliant Edward, excellent video,you have convinced me however of lechmère ,thank you look forward to more x
Another excellent video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Yet another excellent and informative upload by Edward Stow.
Superbly presented by the researcher who cracked and solved the Jack the Ripper mystery!!!
Thank you!
Keep up the good work mate from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺 👍
Thanks, will do!
I love this channel I can't believe someone wanted to get you banned 🇮🇪
Thank you you are so interesting, I watch all your videos, always look forward to your next one.
So nice of you
Love your Channel.
I appreciate the time,effort, and research you put in to your videos.
Thank you
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 Yes. Thank you very much for all your hard work.
Well done .Clear and concise.
Thank you
Love the content still Ed, at least you willing to explore all avenues.
Thank you!
The Macnaghten initial draft or Macnaghen memorandum is a key document in Ripperology. The 3 men on the list were the best suspects he could come up, he got key details wrong ie Druitt was said to be a Dr, he was in fact a Barrister and none of them are convincing. Furthermore, Macnaghten remarked that there was no proof against Druitt, Ostrog or Kosminski and I think this shows that the police had no real suspects and had no idea who Jack the Ripper was.
Yes exactly
The Whitechapel murderer was also the Thames Torso killer. So, Mike roams around the countryside, committing a crime spree of petty theft in his 20s and 30s. Then in his 40s start dismembering women? Nope.
In a nutshell. Well said. 👍
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Nonesense killed by persons or persons unknown Fact 💯 ⚖️ 🗽
Super will watch tonight 👍
Hope you enjoy
Great series I am hooked My original thesis was that Kominski was the Ripper but your work is having e take a fresh look at Lechmere Well done
Well done! Love the details and Scotland Yard backdrop. I'm fully convinced Lechmere is our man.
Good choice!
Brilliant, as ever! Full disclosure: I am 100% in the ‘Lechmere done it’ camp and am convinced that at least four of the canonical Whitechapel murders occurred in part *because* the perpetrator was never a police suspect! Lechmere was, to my mind, one of the luckiest serial killers in history - and also one of the canniest. The man was seen standing over the very recently deceased, if not dying, body of Polly Nichols in a long, narrow and otherwise empty street. After the events of that morning, I imagine that Lechmere spent an anxious few days waiting for a knock on the door. When that knock didn’t come, I can again imagine his dawning sense of relief, elation and - ultimately perhaps - invulnerability. Cleverly, when it was apparent to him that he was not a suspect, he announced himself to the police with the intention of exonerating himself further. From a psychological perspective, I conjecture that the feeling of power and invincibility he derived from this close call contributed to the relatively quick succession in which he carried out the ensuing ‘canonical’ murders - culminating in the blood bath in the lodgings of Mary Kelly. Again, I imagine that he couldn’t believe his luck when it transpired that his chosen victim had her own room, where he could ‘get to work’ realising his horrible fantasies in a way that he never could in the open street (but maybe had on previous occasions, when he’d had access to a suitable bolt-hole where he’d carried out the torso dismemberments). The focus of the Victorian-era police on foreigners and ‘lunatics’, rather than actual evidence, was in my opinion their downfall. At that time, the largely unquestioned assumption was that only someone ‘other’ - i.e. a ‘savage’ or ‘madman’ could carry out the Whitechapel crimes. History has now taught us that most serial killers are able to execute their crimes because they are perfectly unremarkable - I’ve seen it termed “the banality of evil”, which is a great way to describe it. Anyway, there are just my thoughts. By the way, Edward, you are not just a ‘ripperologist’, but a meticulous historian. Thanks for another tremendous video. 🙏
Excellent comment. I agree completely with your reasoning as to why Lechmere got away with it & the thought process of the police at that time.
Yet informed opinion of the day didn't consider him a suspect in the slightest. This despite knowing of him from the very beginning. No smoke at all. Hmm. 🤔
@CharlieVane21
"Yet informed opinion of the day didn't consider him a suspect"
Because they weren't well informed and were clueless about the type of person who is a serial killer. They know differently today. Although not always still.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Exactly.
@@katesleuth1156. Cheers 🥂
Your work is excellent sir best ripperologist well done for your hard work
Thanks
Excellent research as usual Ed, can't wait for the next one ,love it
Thanks
Brilliant, as usual. Although Your heading 'Jack the Ripper Police suspect investigated'. astonished me, I thought you were claiming that , a ( high ranking )Policeman, was now the center of your Ripper suspects. However, that was a very detailed account of Ostrog's 'Career' so much so, that I had to stifle my laughter, as I imagined the Carry-on crowd making a film of him. What a life he led
Yes remarkable
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 I've just been watching a BBC TV one hour Documentary, about Jack the Ripper, and their conclusion was--He was Aaron Kosminski. It's based mostly on a computer gadget that studied the places of the murder's, and that he, lived within the center of the circle it created. In other words, he knew the area and lived close to all victims. WELL, that sounds familiar, and no doubt you watched it, BUT, I'm not impressed at all, But would like to hear your assessment.
@@MrDaiseymay
It will be in a future film!
I'm glad to hear that. @@thehouseoflechmere9407
Subscribed
I find it incredible how incompetent these high-ranking officers were not to have known or attempted to learn the actual whereabouts of Ostrog at the time the Ripper murders occurred. I'm so happy you are doing these films and, one by one, ticking off the usual suspects from that long list. One down, many more to go, eh? If anyone can do it, you can! BTW--just for the record...I'm with you...firmly on Team Lechmere being the man behind the mask. Great film...keep 'em coming!!
Thanks
👍
I'm afraid that you're either being fed false information or have drawn an unwarranted conclusion, Dorienne. Macnaghten states right in his memo that Ostrog's whereabouts at the time of the murders could not be ascertained. He admits it. The police were actively searching for Ostrong, because he had fled and failed to report as legally required, but they failed to find him. In later years, when Scotland Yard discovered that Ostrog had been in France in 1888 (this was learned after Macnaghten's 1894 memo) he was dropped as a suspect. How is that incompetence? These were the days before Interpol, etc. If the Lechmerians want to portray this as incompetence they have drawn a false conclusion; it's merely a reflection of the limitations of the police in an age before computer data bases, etc. They need to portray the police as incompetent in order to explain away the preposterous notion that Lechmere gave a supposed 'alias' at the inquest and yet neither the police nor any of Lechmere's fellow workers at Pickford's picked up on this fact even though he identified his place of employment and even his address.
@rogerpalmer3522
So many inaccuracies in one post!
Lechmerians don't have to prove anything such as you suggest. That Ostrog exposes the severe limitations of the police investigation is not a specifically Lechmerian proposition, and is hardly a novel suggestion - but as ever, as it is highlighted in a Lechmerian context, as a knee jerk reaction it must be resisted.
The police knew before 1888 that Ostrog crossed borders, so an enquiry in France, from whence he had been expelled before, would have been sensible... no? Even in pre-internet days. Don't you think? They hardly left a stone unturned, did they?
When arrested in 1891, after various appeals in the Police Gazette, but before he was sectioned off, if he was such an important suspect, one of the top three, why not ask him? Weren't they capable of that?
And after February 1894, when he was up in court and stated he had been in France in 1889 and so couldn't have committed the crime in Eton... they didn't believe him.
And did they drop him as a suspect? Macnaghten and Anderson's buddy Griffiths wrote his slightly amended and almost word perfect version of the Macnaghten Memorandum in 1898!
Police incompetence is shown by the totally inaccurate descriptions they ascribed to Ostrog - eg homicidal maniac.
There incompetence is also shown by having a top three suspect who cannot have even so much as set foot in Whitechapel when any of the Whitechapel Murders took place. They plucked him pretty much out of thin air and named him as a top three suspect.
That is pathetic police work.
At least, that is how any normal person would regard it...
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 What inaccuracies, Ed? What I said is fact, and you've made a rebuttal based on speculation and questionable analysis. Hindsight is 20/20. You're claiming Ostrog should have been easily traced but he was in a foreign asylum UNDER AN ASSUMED NAME, making him extremely dificult to trace. When Scotland Yard checked out his story, and confirmed he was the lunatic incarcerated abroad, he was released from suspicion.
Good episode Ed, lechmere not off the hook yet!
One thing that still baffles me Ed is the fact that the Victorian policing was very basic with too many mistakes, and 100 years later it was a repeat with Peter Sutcliffe! Where is the confidence in the police to keep the public safe?
I am really enjoying your videos, you present the information incredibly well. A question for your next Q&A - are there any surviving records from Lechmere's employer - Pickerings? Has this ever been looked into? I am thinking specifically about clocking in/time sheets (if this was even done by the company)... it would be fascinating to see what time he got to work on the work days on which some of murders took place.
Pickfords don't have any records from that period
It’s Pickfords
Much the best 'Jack the Ripper' channel on YT.
Thanks
I have an interest in both JTR and Horse racing and it's the same in both. When discussing who he was or who will win the Derby people get very irate and defensive if you disagree with them. Human nature. Well done again Edward, more more more.
Actually it's the same with most hobbies!
I think all the accumulated lore and drama about JTR over time makes it impossible for some people at this point to accept the very logical and simple solution to the mystery that Charles Lechmere is… They need this sad and gruesome story to be ‘unexplainable’ and the perpetrator to be some kind of supernatural genius, the bleak reality is too much for them.
Very true
Excellent. People often point to Druitt and Kosminski based on nothing more than Macnaughten's suspisions. They tend to forget we also included Ostrog among his prime suspects. Bizarre and ridiculous. The idea that a man who was not even directly involved in the case would have better idea, the idea that the police would have some idea, when we see how many cases where the person ultimately caught wasn't even on police radar. And Macnaughten, just as Anderson, may have had other agendas, aside from having no actual investigative qualifications. Well investigated and well presented as always.
The Kosminski theory was NOT based on "nothing more than Macnaughten's suspicions." Macnaghten "tended to exonerate him." The suspicions against him were voiced by the administrative heads of the Ripper investigation, Sir Robert Anderson and Donald Swanson.
@@rogerpalmer3522 Rubbish
Well Kosminskis DNA was on Eddowes shawl. That alone doesn't look all too good for old Aaron. Not to mention according to what is claimed Schwartz identified Kosminski as the man he saw attack Liz Stride. I mean that alone is more that sticks than against Lechmere.
Well, I'm going to answer this, though others probably want to as well. The dubious, very dubious shawl, was said to be taken by a policeman from Catherine Eddowes body. The high quality of the shawl itself makes us question how or why someone like Eddowes would even have it. As to Kosminki's DNA the actual test results simply do not rule out Kosminski. Or hundreds of thousands of other people. And Aaron Kosminski lived many years afterwards, while Anderson said the Polish Jew died shortly after being admitted to the asylum. And we don't know whether it was Shwartz or Lawende who is supposed to have identified the suspect, but Lawende clearly says he only got a brief glance, and Shwartz describes a short stocky man attacking Elizabeth Stride. Aaron Kosminski was very thin. He refused to eat food due to a paranoia about being poisoned, instead eating scraps from gutters. And, while Swanson writes the name Kosminski in the margins of Anderson's memoir, which only mentions a Polish Jew. This person is said to have been committed shortly after Mary Kelly's murder. Aaron Kosminski was not committed until two years after that murder. And he is the only Kosminski found in the asylum records. It could easily have been two Anglo policemen, neither of who, by the way, were boots on the ground for any of the murders, confusing a name or an identity. Which leaves us with an unknown Jewish suspect. Aaron Kosminski is no more likely than any of the Royal Conspiracy suspects.
This subject attracts untold numbers of extreme opinions. Don’t let it get you down and probably you should not get bogged down in reading the extreme views. Your analysis is impressive.
They better not ban your channel! Lechmere is the Ripper.
The 'red flags' bunk is absolute Nonsense. He provided Zero 'conclusive proof' that Lechmere is the ripper. He is less than useless at this game & can't even answer as to where Lechmere must have had the Bloody knife & what about bloody Hands & likely blood other places that he could not have known about when he approached Paul. What fn knife killer would Ever approach someone to Identify himself? LOL.
Congratulations Edward on keeping a straight face when naming the aliases at 17:50.
I skipper a few
Great episode and very insightful. It makes you wonder if the Police just had a list of suspects and they would check against that to see who 'fits'. For a particular crime.
They were without a clue
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 I wonder if because the possible killer was suggested to be some sort of strange lunatic, maybe foreign so more easily identifiable, the women in the area felt more confident about picking up men because someone seeming ordinary seemed safe to be with. Probably, nothing would have stopped the women from carrying on with what they were doing but I wonder if there’s any possibility that particularly due to press coverage, the killer was expected to be weird enough to be easily avoided. Might that have resulted in some of the further murders ? The police seem to have made a huge mistake. I don’t think I’m right - am just speculating.
@genny9026
I certainly think that if you seemed 'normal' then both the women on the street, and the police would not be on their guard and discount the person as a threat. The trouble is serial killers very often seem totally normal, even charming.
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 Thank you for replying and for making the great videos. Yes, the unawareness of the police at the time that serial killers can seem normal and even charming, didn’t help at all. I wonder if any of Charles Lechmere’s relatives etc mentioned the murders to him and if they suspected him. I doubt if the police spoke to any of them or, to people he worked with. Thanks again - and bye. 🙂
@@genny9026
It's pretty certain that the police barely spoke to Lechmere let alone anyone he knew.
It's ludicrous that anyone would try to ban you for having views different to them. I am not as convinced as you it was Lechmere but I really enjoy the videos on this channel, and the arguments you put forward. I think your views on the other suspects will be intriguing. Look forward to seeing them!
Some people loose their heads in Jack the Ripper debate - and Lechmere disorders these people's minds more than any other suspect!
I was called a "Cultist" for favoring Lechmere as a suspect. They are calling all of us that. I don't care. Their vehemence against Lechmere as a suspect is very bizarre to me.
I agree it's ridiculous that someone wants the channel banned because they hold different views. I hold an open mind as to who the Ripper was, I agree Letchmere is a plausible suspect though several others are as well.
Interesting stuff as usual! In your diggings with Christer Holmgren, I was wondering if you've turned up any other new clues that point to Lechmere. Going by modern day serial killers M.O.'s, have you scanned British newspapers from the 1860's to 1880's for articles on animal mutilations in the area where Charles grew up? Or possibly archived records from schools he attended for something similar?
Lechmere's mom sold catsmeat for who knows how long and lechmere could have been slaughtering poor old animals of any variety, day and night without anyone even thinking that what he was doing was odd and sadistic.
Wow, so he probably was doing that as part of the family business...that's one more red flag isn't it?@@johngarcia1340
Sound like he definitely had a split personality given the kind of names he went by when trying to throw the police off. Excellent video once again 👍🏼
Thanks
I LOVE HOW DETAILED THE RESEARCH IS IN YOUR VIDEOS ED, I'M CONVINCED IT WAS LECHMERE. EVEN HIS PHOTO SAYS IT ALL IN THE EYES.
Excellent as always ed . Any idea why the mills and Wilson programme last night neglected to put lechmere forward ? Twas from 2019 so after the missing evidence , but, first time I've seen it .
It was just a superficial piece of BBC tosh
At 16:57, is that the famous JtR era PUB behind you on the corner? And the iron fence on the right, is that the church that some of the working ladies would hang out at night?
This guy knows his stiluff. 👍
Pertaining to the three suspects it's nothing more then theory and conjecture. Coming from a man who's appointment to his position was not based on skill or qualifications as a lew enforcement offical. Lechmere is the only viable suspect who can be placed at most if not all the scenes of the crime.
Wow,, good old Police work got it wrong again. Thanks for Post it was great 👍
Glad you enjoyed it
This guy was a menace to society but he didn't seem dangerous. Not JTR I think.
Great.
It's crazy there were so many murderers at that time.
And very unusual
Has it ever been mentioned that Paul saw Charles carrying a black bag for the 🔪?🤔
I am absolutely satisfied in my own opinion, letchmere was jack the ripper, 🏴✌️
Good... but Lechmere!
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 bishop Stortford, is north of Essex not west!
@JamesDickson-vs5of
Its on the western border - the northern part of the western border!
I am writing 8 montys after this video was put on TH-cam. I am convinced by Edward's many arguments. However, I have a slight, tiny, 'but' that I would like to be considered - it may have already been dealt with. When Letchmere stopped Paul and asked him to take a look, what had he done with his knife?
Hidden in in his apron?
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 I take it that you have dealt with this question in one of your videos and I've simply missed it? For a mass killer and, sort of, posthumous sadist Lechmere (I've spelt his name correctly this time!) seemed to show incredible presence of mind at critical moments of possible detection. (Then again, so did Sutcliffe when he was stopped in Sheffield.)
Low hanging fruit indeed Ed. Stereotypical sticky finger pointing lack of competence and fact checking by the police in 1888. Another great factual and detailed presentation video here. Terrific Ed again.
Thanks
Isn't that Police Commissioner James Munro? (1:44) I remember him from your video on the Pinchin Street Torso.
Aaaaaah, yes - I'm going to have nightmares about that stupid error!
Don't worry. Shit happens!@@thehouseoflechmere9407
Don’t give up, you’re on to something
I am a firm believer that you have identified the correct culprit in Lechmere. What puzzles me is, why did he stop the murders? Could you let me know. I have heard that there are other serial killers that do stop their killing sprees for lengths of time. Also, I am intrigued about other murders that occurred shortly before and after the White Chapel murders possibly being Lechmere's work as well. Great videos and information. We love you here in the U.S.
Because he went on to become the Thames torso murderer. Evisceration was his thing.
I think he carried on for another ten years
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 It seems to me that similar murders were committed for some time after. I believe Both yourself and Christer mentioned them. That would make a good episode would it not? unless you already have and I missed it? Great content as always Edward. Thank you from the USA
BTK; Di Angelo being two that stopped.
He may have stopped because in his final murder he had literally taken things as far as he could
charles lechmere/cross gang
I don't think that it is by any means certain that the police did not make discrete enquiries about Lechmere. They seems to have eliminated Robert Paul as a suspect, and that immediately begs two questions. Firstly why would they look into the second man to come into contact with the body but not the first? Secondly why would Paul be a suspect, if both he and Lechmere agreed that he was the second man on the scene? Presumably they didn't think that Robert Paul murdered Polly Nichols, then walked round the block and and encountered a very puzzled Lechmere. My best guess is that they didn't trust either mans account, and considered the possibility that they might have acted together.
If the police made discrete enquiries, then they were pitifully inadequate as they didn't discover his name was Lechmere.
We know for a fact that the police went to a degree of trouble to find Paul.
Paul didn't come forward. He was evidently anti-police by his words. The second murder was very close to his workplace.
Maybe the police thought he somehow evaded Lechmere walking up Bucks Row to appear behind Lechmere.
Paul was certainly looked at and eliminated.
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 I find it surprising, perhaps even implausible, they they went to all this effort to investigate Paul, but had no interest in Lechmere. Absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence, ,when the evidence has been rained on for more than a century. I think that Robert Paul, while not being the murderer, might be an important clue.
@bendavies8881
There isn't absence of evidence. We know the police didn't discover his name after Paul had been found. That tells us he wasn't investigated.
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 Do we know if Lechmere had any friends among the police constables at the time?
@@janetpendlebury6808
No idea
I believed it was lechmere aswell, but only because another English youtuber explained why he believed it, and the fact that he didn't want to sit the woman up. That was it, well pretty much only because he didn't want to touch her, but the other channel tour of...I forgot already, 🤦♀️🤷♀️ just had an interview with someone else, and it never occurred to me, the story could have been wrong and he wasn't described by other witnesses for the other women, and the worst part is, it's not like there's anyone left to actually punish 🥺 you done a really good job, everyone, even the police that were there obviously only had theories, and we all have a version of that. These internet trolls need to calm down under their bridges and realise this isn't their real life, if anything it should teach them how short life can be, and knowing what this creature done, the last thing I would want to do is become cruel or angry with someone else. I'm so ashamed to be human sometimes, all youtubers have to deal with them 🤍😒🙂🦘🇦🇺🦘✌️.
ive never set any store by the police suspects if the police knew so much why dident they catch in the first place
Mrs Richards: "I paid for a room with a view!"
Basil: (pointing to the lovely view) "That is Torquay, Madam."
Mrs Richards: "It's not good enough!"
Basil: "May I ask what you were expecting to see out of a Torquay hotel bedroom window? Sydney Opera House, perhaps? the Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Herds of wildebeest sweeping majestically past?..."
Mrs Richards: "Don't be silly! I expect to be able to see the sea!"
Basil: "You can see the sea, it's over there between the land and the sky."
Mrs Richards: "I'm not satisfied. But I shall stay. But I expect a reduction."
Basil: "Why?! Because Krakatoa's not erupting at the moment ?"
Lechmere even wiped his bloody hand clean on Robert Paul`s shoulder when he approached Paul in Bucks Row.
Did he? Interesting!
Yes I presume he wiped the knife on the dress and concealed it in his apron. Any blood - which wouldn't be seen at the time would be accounted for by blood transfers from the touching.
He'd have been too old to be JtR all the witness never mentioned the man was over 40. They all said 28 as the youngest and 35 as the oldest i believe. And people looked alot older in those days 40 was middle aged and 60 was like you'd need a stick to hobble around
We have no idea whether or not the witnesses saw the killer, do we? Plus of course, there were people back then, who - just like today - looked younger than their years. Take, for example, Polly Nichols, who was 43 but reportedly looked ten years younger. An alcoholic and a prostitute! So no, those points are not in any way viable.
Hello edward do you think whoever jtr was would have confessed on their deathbed unless their death was unexpected
I doubt it
Wow, there be some drama heating up in the Ripper fandom...
Just wanted to ask somthing about the Polly Nicholas murder?
When Letchmere and Robert Paul go and find a police officer, I know Letchmere was the one who spoke with the police officer and said there's a policeman down at Buxs road who wants your help, but why didn't Robert Paul say anything to the officer when he would have known that there was no police officer?
Either he didn't hear or Lechmere told him before hand he would say something to get them past and on to work... in my opinion
I'm quite surprised that they didn't include Joseph Merrick 'The Elephant-Man' in their suspect list .Though i am sure in the future some fantasist will write a book that does . It could be intersting to time the walk from Pickfords to both 29 Hanbury St & Miller's Court as they both occured on work days. Lechmere for me is well & truly under the micrscope ,where as the vast majority of other suspects are just plainly ludicrous , The entire J.T.R. field of study is subjective ,so surly anything or one that precipitates debate has to be a bonus.
Pretty sure someone would have remembered seeing Joseph Merrick walking around the streets!
He would certainly have cut a dash .@@janetpendlebury6808
He wasn't working on the night of the Kelly murder
@@kevinkenny6975 9th Nov 1888 was a Friday .I'm guessing he worked 6 days a week.
Inspector Lestrade wouldn't have made such an elementary mistake.
An isane asylum? OSTROG was just a plain old career criminal. He was a busy guy, can't see him ripping women up though. Between you and Helgrum my vote is for Lechmere.
Got your grain of salt?...
Let's cut to the chase.
Firstly. let me congratulate you on being arguably the best Ripperologist on the net. Bravo!
Recently I said I thought Ostrog was Jack the Ripper. I half retracted the opinion due to the way Mr Stow seemed convinced that it was Lechmere. I mentioned retinal science as pointing to Ostrog as the last person the canonical five saw. Actually I thought that there were six victims (and still do), the first one being earlier that year.
Now on further research I believe that Jack the Ripper was Lechmere as Mr Stow maintains.
This is due to the discovery that the last person they saw was not Ostrog but Lechmere, who told them he was Ostrog. In other words the final memory they had referred to the residual name Ostrog not the physical resonance frequency of his body shape etc.
Lechmere may have been reported to the London Police as having surgical knives and being cruel to women but having used the name Ostrog, McNaughten may have worked on the women's reports referring to Ostrog.
There is evidence that Lechmere used the name Cross. He had changed his name once. It may have not been the last time he gave another name. He may have been Ostrog to the victims.
Perhaps he did carry 30 surgical knives and was a homicidal maniac according to the women who denounced him thinking he was Michael Ostrog.
Motive for the crimes? Maybe he had a childhood memory problem from slaughtering cats for his mother's cat food business. She was successful which leads one to imagine she was strict . This may have given him a type of PTSD which emerged later in life. It's possible he had a thing about syphilis, perhaps even being a sufferer. This is why he made off with uteruses etc. He studied the life of cats which gave him a rare look into the habits of cats and their promiscuity which he didn't like that much. He also probably knew how to determine syphilis in women as well as cats. Perhaps he saw himself as a white knight, being the father of nine children. But this is digression.
There appears to have been a strong bond between Lechmere and his mother since after a disagreement he left his mother's home, just before the Jack the Ripper crimes began.
Lechmere would have had plenty of opportunity to falsely tell his victims he was Michael Ostrog being in the area every night for 21 years. Ostrog was imprisoned in France during the crimes not to mention that most of the time he was in prisons and asylums for sneak thief activities etc. The women would not have known Ostrog long enough to know he was not Lechmere.
I thought at first it was Pizer since he ticked the boxes. I imagined he told the women he was Ostrog. The cast iron alibi I thought was due to his friendship with a local police officer. However this would have been discredited over 135 years. Lechmere however was under the radar all those years.
In short Lechmere appears the most likely candidate for the title Jack the Ripper. Retinal evidence asserts this to be the case. The problem being that they recalled who he said he was...Ostrog...though they saw Lechmere's body shape last. This holds up according to the retinal evidence. The name Ostrog was the last thing they perceived.
Ostrog...when I lived in Tunbridge Wells ...he was about their in 1880's which was interesting ...stealing stuff..as I always follow the case.
Yes he was!
I think he proposed to a lady in Tunbridge Wells, from memory.
yeh ..he nicked stuff too.. ..petty thief ..school trophies ..but with worth ..I remember ..got nicked!!
i think its still who you know these days
Freemasons
Yes true
Ain’t that the truth - it works that way even in Australia’s supposedly “classless” society - don’t make me laugh! 😂
Hello, i was wondering about lechmeres mother and wife, is there any info on the reason for he and his wife's separation, i think that would be worth delving into,i have my own thoughts on it but would like to know facts if there is any out there. Kind regards.
He didn't seperate from his wife - his mother seperated from his father
At 23:11 in the film a newspaper clipping is shown detailing Ostrog’s theft of jewellery from a Mr. George William Betjemann who was, I believe, a predecessor of Sir John Betjemann the famous Poet Laureate.
Just saying.
I didn't know that
Well Betjemann is such an unusual name that I thought I’d look it up.
I found a George William Betjemann, who was a relative of Sir John Betjemann, who was in London at that time and was a jeweller, so it appears to fit.
I’m curious, what is the one clue that convinces you beyond a shadow of doubt , it was lechmere?
The case against Lechmere isn't based on one piece of evidence. It is the accumulation.
When I first looked at him, I was trying to disprove it was him. The thing that made me almost shudder was when I worked out the multiple connections to Pinchin Street where the torso was found in 1889.
He was found with a body and then lied every chance he got.
House Lechmere what accumulation 🤣🤣🤣🤣 go head give is the to we get a laugh 🤔 💭 coroner Baxter s verdict killed by persons or persons unknown 💯 FACT ⚖️ 🗽
Most actors done crime never time.
Very Comprehensive, never considered Ostrog a serious suspect. It would be good if you could look at suspects such as Jacob Levy or William Henry Bury, although personally I doubt we truly know who Jack the Ripper was. Lechmere is a possible but not conclusive for me.
I have many more videos to come !
Hes most famous criminal. I know q few criminals they never get anything. Timothy walker a criminal Gary hopkins a criminal
19th century version of box ticking old boys club not very bright here's the top job in police work old boy remember eton, and oxford
Yes none of them were very bright.
Wasn't he in prison in France during the Ripper murders???
Watch till the end
Surely it's blatant masonry is all over Jack...
I have to be honest and say many years ago I thought the ripper was James Kelly and now I think it's Lechmere. George Chapman was left handed and we all know the ripper was right handed. In that photo of Lechmere he's holding his hat with his right hand. Just saying. Cheers!
he is more of confidence trickster of course he used false names he was obviously a man of certain intelligence did not want exposing himself
Do you think lechmere was trying to frighten his mother into allowing him back into the house?
Ha no!
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 I'd like to know if he moved back to his mother's, after the Mary Jane Kelly murder🏴✌️
@@JamesDickson-vs5of
I don't think so
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 ther was a horrific murder near to where I live in Scotland about 20 yes ago , the jodi Jones murder , Jodi's boyfriend Luke Mitchell who carried out the murder, tried unsuccessfully to pass himself of as a witness and nearly got away with it , except for one tiny detail which nailed , a red hair band, 🏴✌️
@@JamesDickson-vs5of
I vaguely remember that case. I will read up on it
Hi ed,i agree ostrog should never have been a suspect,this post though is about harriet lilley.its true her statement a week later is hardly ideal however theres some specific details she says that interest me. She hears a painfull moan and 2 or 3 faint gasps which passed away..also she says she heard whispers and voices but couldnt make out what was said. Now,if we look at agonal breathing,healthline says agonal breathing may sound like gasping,it may sound like snorting labored breathing it may sound like the person is moaning.it can last a few breaths or could go for hours.wikipedia add this..strange vocalizations.so,i doubt if mrs lilley heard of these peculiar details from gossip or newspapers.she seems to have got these details correct,and i also doubt she ever heard of agonal breathing or knew what it meant.thank u.
Your saying its agonal breathing.
I think it's far more likely she heard nothing at all. The police, the coroner and the rest of the press seem to have agreed with me!
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 well,all im saying is its a possibility,if lilley heard a moan ,faint gasps,whispering and voices(which may account for strange vocalizations) and this is in line with medical sources im relictant to dismiss her testimony,sometimes the press and police arentvalways thourough,in particular the police.thats all im saying.possible.
@leslierock5005
Yes I agree they aren't always thorough and as I pointed out they weren't thorough at Bucks Row - but it remains that a week old witness, I'm and out of sleep is a very poor witness.
And she didn't even specify the 3.07 train! The newspaper did!
@@thehouseoflechmere9407 harriet liley says ' i dont know what posseses me but i cannot sleep tonight'. Seems she was awake. But its those little details that she gives theyre very distinct,a moan not one gasp but two or three,that faded away ,very unusal details. With a violent murder and horrible injuries one might expect the murder to carry more sound than it actually did,but it was swift and relatively quiet,and i think lilleys comments mirror this,there was no scream she gives something different,which may point to agonal breathing.
@@leslierock5005
Buy all her neighbours said they didn't hear anything so she could hardly claim she heard a scream.
Well we can go anywhere ..the guy who heard victim over fence ...and heard cries of 'no' ..he was French ...after terming, by witnesses, was a Foreigner ..he was on the scene ... and done nothing to look over fence, closer more than anybody else and a known place for street girls to come and go in through that ally way of the building to back yard ..again reports of Foreigner ..could mean not local! ...to just push him away as suspect again ..no one looked to him further .. we are all in theory' ...who said that .....but good stuff ..
Tidy up your grammar
It was he who did it guvner! Cor Blimey ...
@@andrewjohnson388 That's better
Sorted ..nice one.
I suspect george Hutchinson. He was the witness outside mary kellys room on the night of her murder and did not go to the poloce for some days after her murder. What isnt mentioned is that he was mary kellys jealous ex-boyfriend and theyd broken up 2 weeks before her murder after a jealous argument. After tabrams murder mary stopped working for a while and this is what gave him the idea and motivation for the rest of the murders. he used to read her newspaper reports of the murders to scare her into stopping her working. We know of his murderous inclination as he was convicted of a poisoning years after the ripper murders and this is used to discount him as jack as the MO is different,but the later murders were copycats of the original tabram murder. Also,marys door was locked and police had to break into the property,the key had gone missing 2 weeks earlier when Hutchinson amd kelly had split.
You are mixing up Joseph Barnett, George Hutchinson and George Chapman.
Ostrog, Druit and Kosminski have never been serious suspects. None of them have anything that links them to the crimes, nothing more than finger pointing. Kosminski, however, is a muddled character. Records indicate there were two Kosminski familes living in the same area. The details of which have become mixed up to produce a whole new person. Ostrog is easily dismissed for the reasons you point out, but some Ripperologist still fall for him. Lastly, Druit as the Ripper rests on a few family members having nothing more against him other than Druit being melancholy. As always your videos Eddie are outstanding, but when is your book published? That i would love to read.
Patience!
Kosminski _was_ a serious suspect; we just don't know the factual reasons why he was of such interest to the investigators, and evidently their main suspect.
I guess that the question to ask, is who would you investigate, if you were put in charge of the investigation with the benefit of hindsight? You can only intervene after the murders. Personally I wouldn't invest a lot of effort in investigating Ostrog. I would probably take an interest in Druit, even if I expected it to be a dead end. If there were six Kosminski's in the area at the time, then I would investigate all of them.
@Stroheim333
He wasn't Macnaghten's main suspect and as we will see in a future film the information they had on him was similarly garbled nonsense - which tells us what his real status was.
@bendavies8881
Six overt lunatics?
When are serial killers ever overt lunatics... but we will revisit this.