As a Fourth Succession war vet I stand by the strength of the PNT-9R. It is by far one of the more misunderstood and misused assets on the battlefield. So many young Chu-i tend to squander them. One of the nastiest tactics I learned was to use Panthers with Jenner's in slashing and smashing attacks. The Jenner's would run ahead drawing out the enemy hitting them hard then withdrawing back towards Panthers hiding with clear firing lines towards the enemies following the Jenner's... Just when they think they have our Jenner's dead to rights... The Panthers strike and they hit hard, smashing armor withe those PPCs. Then the Jenner's turn back on their pursuers and destroy them with all of the night of the dragon!
Imagine at the start of the succession wars. You realize that Davion had tons of med factories available and adequate heavy mech factories, Steiner had tons of assault mech factories. While you have mostly light mech factories. While you as Kurita had the SLDF light mech factories, you panic for a bit the come to the conclusion you need a light mech that can do what a medium mech does, the chassis you have can slug it out with a Med at the cost of speed and with some tinkering you can mount the devastating PPC if you take off its large laser. Kurita really made the most of a bad situation. While Liao was stuck pumping out urbanmechs to its front line units.
@@stevens9625 it's honestly a decent side by side comparison next to the Panther. Same speed. Similar weapons. But the Vindicator is a bit better, heavier, and more expensive overall.
@@stevens9625 I'm afraid there are plenty of disagreements. Enforcer has 2 big guns against Vindy's 1. I have seen Wolverine WVR-6M claimed to be the best medium 'Mech of the Succession Wars, and Griffin GRF-1S is remarkably similar. Vindicator isn't bad by any means, just ... close to average. Certainly better than CGR-1L.
@@mattikuokkanen Enforcer has 1 ton reload for the AC10, afterwards, it's got the damage profile of a Cicada. I'd pick the Centurion over Enforcer any day. Griffin was designed in the 2800s and it shows - 12 heat sinks doesn't allow it to shoot and JJ at the same time let alone use that LRM10 so basically an up-armoured Panther that costs 40% more (the LL version is a beast tho). WVR-6M IS the best medium mech in my book too but it's not tied to a specific faction I believe.
A Panther was actually the very 1st mech I ever piloted in the tabletop game... I got one shot off with ghe PPC sniping a mech in the head, Jumped next to a level 2 cliff to avoid return fire, And was immediately assassinated by a company of SRM infantry Hiding in the woods atop it, With the infamous leftorso critical.. Glorious KABOOM.
Speed is indeed life, but also range is life too. Panthers range and armor keep it alive often. Really only truly fearing a wolfhound or a ppc armed medium or heavy. When playing Kurita always have them and generally putting them with jenners and phoenix hawks, using them much like I'd use a griffin.
Speed is life is a common saying in all too many games but I think this is too one sided. While moving fast makes you harder to hit I believe there should be corresponding penalties for the fast moving shooter. The faster you are moving the harder it is for you to accurately target something. Penalties far more than the original simple firing penalties based on whether you walk or run. There should be more penalties if you run 12 movement points than running at 6
@John Fisher I think the idea is that lights made to move that fast have better suspensions and less momentum and g forces so they are less affected by running than youd think. Which is my retcon, hand-wavey way of saying... don't make light mechs any worse than they are haha
Range, plus maneuverability. Combining devastating firepower with the jump jets to maneuver between protected firing positions swiftly is one hell of a one-two punch.
One of my favorite things to do with the Panther in MWO and HBS' Battletech, was to pull the armor back a little bit, mount a 2nd PPC, and a shit ton of Jump Jets. It was always so much fun to get behind enemy lines, and make their lives absolute Hell.
For its weight-class The Panther is a dang BEAST. Seriously, you willing to switch the energy punch to Medium Laser/s and scrape the armor a bit, and you can do some silly, silly stuff with its missile load-out. LRM 15 on a light mech, anybody?
the panther is a light mech in the same way the orion is a heavy it is just below the 40 tons required to be a medium, and is effectively a 35 ton centurion (atleast to me) the orion is called the poor mans atlas, that is because it is basically a 75 ton atlas that runs at 64.8kph
A very under-rated mech, and one of my personal favorite light mechs. It functions better IMO as a discount / “poor man’s medium mech”, providing fire support to medium lances or as an escort for larger mechs, than it does in a scout lance. I feel like if you use it in a light lance (as the fluff suggests) it often gets left behind and picked off. Enemies won’t bother wasting shots at the fast scouts, and instead focus their fire on the slow Panther. It’s real strength only becomes apparent once you start treating it like 3025’s “lightest medium mech” … which it essentially is. Grouping it with mediums also helps with target saturation and reducing the amount of incoming enemy fire it has to contend with - because a Panther in a medium lance will often be ignored, as the least threatening mech in the lance, and can often blast away with the PPC all game. Which does real damage, hitting above its weight / BV over the course of a game.
I find it suffers immensely from combined arms. Tanks are almost always better at being the cheapest PPC money can buy, and at providing noncommittal rear gunnery support, and it can end up cornered very easily and cost effectively by infantry or things like Scorpions. I find it truly excels in non-lance, BV or C-Bill total, Mech only battles, where it's one of the best upwards punchers you can get.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 That’s true, but then again balance goes kind of completely out the window in combined arms, unless both players are exercising heaps of restraint. Otherwise somebody could just bring a ton of Savanna Masters and Shreks and probably blow whatever opposing mechs they face clean off the board. Tanks do have some downsides (e.g., motive hits), but IMO they’re much, MUCH more efficiently pointed than most mechs. Which is part of the reason I prefer not to play combined arms, personally. I think mechs are the best and most iconic/nostalgic thing about Battletech, and combined arms turns a lot of them into total pushovers. But I also recognize that lots of people like combined arms. I really only consider it for narrative campaigns. Point taken.
@@n00bfishie There are a couple of true standout Mechs in combined arms that do even better than usual, though. The Firestarter is one everyone knows about, but the Grasshopper is one of the best Mechs for combined arms, period. Mostly, mechs need to emphasize mobility and flexibility to excel in combined arms. Mechs built around single weapon systems, big slow fire support platforms, and shotgun boats are generally the mech designs that crumple in the face of combined arms.
I'm still fairly new to the Battletech franchise, so the way I think is quite... archaic. You think of the light mechs as a concept, and your brain imagines them as something meant for scouting and infantry support. Then you get stuff like Commando, Panther and Wolfhound and everything you know goes all topsy-turvy... Closest analogue I can think of are tank destroyers. Small frame, huge gun. xD
Lightmechs generally fulfil the role of scouts/recon, seek and destroy, raiding and swift response mechs; they're effectively the "light infantry" of the setting's mechs and generally considered crucial for assaulting urban environments since they can get to critical point (IE Munition dumps, generators, command centers) much faster to soften up their enemies. This isn't to say that they don't do anti-personel work as well (The firestarter and Locust are vicious in this way). In this way, you could probably think of the Panther as being a sniper; it's mobile enough that it can get into position quickly, has a hard hitting gun with good range and provides covering fire for the rest of the 4 mech lance.
Most Lights are either scouts, or strikers. Strikers are fast mechs which do a lot of damage in a single volley, but are meant to dash out, hit, and dash back to cover. The Panther is odd in that it's really a lot more like a medium "trooper" mech, but a cheaper by a half-million C-Bills or more.
Things might make more sense if you consider speeds of different 'Mechs. Panther isn't for recon because of its weight. It's for front line combat because of its speed. In front line combat Panther gets outclassed by medium and heavy 'Mechs. But because Panther is cheap, given scenario can either have other stronger 'Mechs in addition, or more Panthers to outnumber the enemy. So if Lyrans or FedRats bring a full lance of medium 'Mechs, then Drac can bring 2 Panthers, Crusader, and Thunderbolt for example. Consider Panther as an equivalent of a real world 6 ton Vickers E tank & derivatives (T-26): light, slow, and cheap to fill up the ranks in short order.
Panthers always seemed like a medium troop. Kind of like the Dragon is really a medium cavalry mech. Seems like the Combine got screwed on mech production, like they were the mochs of the universe. Always loved them, always wanted a Panther II to keep it up with new tech.
One of the best ‘mechs in its weight class. Very efficient way of fielding a PPC on a mobile chassis for cheap. The missiles can also deliver a good killing blow up close after the enemy has been softened up at range.
@@shabmaster7128 Yeah, that's the other half of the *Daisho*; the Jenner can rapidly flank whoever decides to take the fight with the Panther or the Panther can side/rear shot them if they take the fight with the jenner.
The Panther is a model pocket medium. I see it as the Combine equivalent of the Valkyrie for the Suns, with both packing an oversized weapon on a slow light chassis that is available in huge numbers. Between the two, I prefer the Panther's PPC to the Valkyrie's LRM10, and I always appreciate a maximum-armor design. That said, I wonder if the Panther wouldn't be better off running an LRM5 with the PPC and relying on the ever-ubiquitous bug 'Mechs and Jenners for close-in defense.
Iirc, you would either need an extra sink or be limited to a walk or start to run hot. The SRM covers the minimum range of the PPC if/when things fall through and helps keep trigger happy pilots from cooking off their ammo and wasting your mech.
While I like the Panther, I think the thing I like most about them was that they forced the creation of the Wolfhound, my absolute favorite light 'mech of all time.
Something I just realized. I like the Panther a lot as a light direct fire-support unit. Always have. However I strongly dislike the 20 tons heavier Griffin, even though it is functionally the same mech and serves a similar role with a higher speed and more armor. I suppose the reason why is that for a 55 ton mech, the Griffin feels alarmingly under-gunned, whereas the 35 ton Panther feels like it punches above its weight even if it is slower and less armored.
This is one of those Mechs that when I see it I immediately switch from kill to cripple. The PPC is indeed a nasty piece of work and so instead of trying to drill through its center torso armor I immediately start aiming for that right arm almost exclusively. The hunchback is another similar mech where it's usually wiser to try and disable its weapon system then try to take it out out right.
In one of my more memorable games while fielding a Panther, I was able to bring down a Battlemaster with a headshot and blow the leg off of a Dragon. It's a great little mech that can comfortably brawl with bigger opponents. That PPC is downright dangerous! It's a bit on the slow side, but can still jump and has good armor coverage for its weight. I tend to use them as bodyguards, pairing them with bigger lancemates to watch their backs and deter light flankers. For less than 800 BV2, it can definitely give a good return on investment. Even if it's taken out, it's done its job by taking heat off of others in your list.
this mech make sense in the fact the combine use few medium so it fill the roles that a vindicator or a enforcer for the combine. its your stand on the line mech to absorb fire while your big boys get in place. It is also interesting that the dragon is the favor heavy which act more as a heavy calvery. This let the panther handle more of a defensive posture where it can guard key area and site letting jenner and dragon handle the more mobile flow of the battlefield. You have Jenner screening the dragons while the panther protect the rear.
When ever In my game of MW5 I see a light mech icon I lock on it to see if it's a panther or not and when I see a panther I would do my best to shot its arm off with the ppc but it's a good mech to use I'm just glad that their not any faster when it has the ppc which is most what I come across the game
There's not much to say on the Panther that hasn't already been said. The base design is one of the times where a mech seems to get something right straight from the initial production line. It might not have the speed of other light mechs but if I needed a single light to support the Cent/Treb combo then the direct firing PPC would make it an appreciable solution.
Hands down, one of my favourite light mechs. It looks amazing, and can punch significantly above its weight. Not fast, but those jump jets compensate, and it can be quite tough, as you say. All in all, probably one of my top three light mechs.
Even before Clan invasion, Panthers went up against Lyran Griffins and Suns Enforcers. Though in cost and game terms this would mean Panthers having a numerical superiority. Quantity over quality.
For Light Mechs, speed is definitely life--case in point, the Fire Moth, a speedster to begin with at 10MP and with MASC doubling that to 20, making it the Roadrunner to other mech's Wile E. Coyote. For mediums, speed and armor are a must, so that the mech can take one or two solid hits while dodging enemy fire. When you get into Assault class, though, speed and mobility are a moot point, as thick armor protects against a wide variety of weapons and allows the mech to simply rhinohide through a battle. Think of fast, light mechs as the irresistible force, and assaults as the immovable object.
Ah, the Panther... I've never been able to truly appreciate this mech. It's just too under-armored for its speed, or too slow for its armor; however you want to look at it. I've always opted for other lights, despite their shorter ranges. Still, I am now introducing one into a Battle Lance for my mercenary company on the tabletop. I'm pairing it with a Warhammer, a Rifleman, and an Enforcer. A lance that can move at a common pace, and deal some heavy damage at long range. I hope it will prove worthy of the praise I always see it receiving, online.
Hello Red. I started playing B-tech back in 1984, and chose the Davion faction. This meant that I did not have access to the Panther for several years due to playing it 'by the book'. Within a few more years, I had captured, bought, or otherwise obtained several Panthers for my own Mercenary Force, the Star Lions Corps. As you've said, I found the Panthers to be a flexible and reliable machine to use up until the Clan Invasion. By that time though, as I've said before in other comments, my Unit had vacated the Inner Sphere to set up their own Colony in the Periphery. Returning to the Inner Sphere with new machines and a new Unit Name, the Ghost Lions Legion. The Legions make extensive use of Panthers. Especially the PNT-12K, and the PNT-12K2. The Ghost Lions also tinkered with the PNT-12KC, making a variant they named the PNT-12KC-a. This Mech removes all weapons excepting the PPC, and the C3 Slave unit, in favor of an additional Clan heat sink, an ER Medium Laser, and a Medium Pulse Laser, both of which are moved to the Center Torso. Although the PNT-12KC-a does run a tad bit 'hot', it also removes a weakness of the Panther designs overall. That being its ammo dependency and vulnerability to ammo explosions. By making the Mech a full 'energy boat', it also frees up the unit for longer duration missions, and deep penetration raiding missions. This was felt to be more useful than relying upon a vulnerability to seek critical hits on Enemy Mechs. The 'Stock' Panther, in its day, was a powerful force on the battlefields of the 3025 Era. And though the design stumbled here and there, it's later variations prove the concept that a 'heavy-light' Mech can be a force to tip battles in one's favor.
If you were going to make an entire company of a single light mech design, this is the best candidate for it. Long range and relatively heavy armor making facing a company of Panthers the equivalent of charging into a lance of Awesomes. While speed is a form of protection, greater range is a counter for speed. A Jenner running full out vs a Panther walking forward with a range of 8 hexes between them. The Panther has a 11+ to hit (assuming 4 gunnery for both pilots). Ouch, tough shot. The Jenner has an 11+ at the same range. So the Jenner isn't any better off. If the Jenner jumped 7 instead of running, the Panther's chance to hit remains 11, but the Jenner's goes to 12. If the Jenner closes to the 4-6 range its chance to hit improves by 2, and so does the Panthers. the Jenner only gains an advantage when it closes to the 1-3 hex range, and then it has to maintain speed but stay within 3 hexes of the target and still move enough to keep its modifier which isn't really possible. Which means to keep that speed modifier the Jenner is going to move between range brackets giving the Panther more opportunities to slip in a good shot. The Jenner should fair better because it has more weapons and thus more chances to score a hit. That said, a few lucky shots and the fight can easily flip to the Panther. Especially if the Panther doesn't stick to open plains and instead chooses to head into rough terrain when the Jenner's speed will have to drop making it more vulnerable.
I've fought enough of these things as a FedSun Merc to eye them wearily even behind the cockpit of Catapult. I've lost too many PPCs and Lasers to underestimate these surprisingly tough buggers
I absolutely love the Panther, but have to say that the PNT-9ALAG has to be one of the most sensible refits of the mech. The lack of jump jets can be a bit of a pain, but the 5/8 movement profile lets it keep up in a formation with DRG-1N Dragons and DRG-1G Grand Dragons in the Succession Wars.
I don't really like this thing, but that's mostly because I almost always play combined arms, and almost any mech built around a single weapon, especially a longer ranged fire support platform, are better replaced by a vehicle. I imagine it really shines in non-lance, BV total battles, where it can really leverage its ability to operate more or less independently, and trade up in value.
I love the look. It hits very hard for a Light. It's just too damn slow. The 13K variant is rather good. ER _anything_ should not belong on any mech without double heat sinks. Open plains and tundra are the only biomes ER's aren't a detriment, since cover is a thing. In the old days, I liked the Panther. As I progressed, I determined that a large laser and a bigger engine would have made the Panther more viable.
Yep, the PPC is the panthers greatest mistake. Downgrade to a large laser and youve still got enough firepower to do its intended job but now youve eliminated heat issues and can invest the freed up weight into better mobility. All round better for what its supposed to do imo.
My first mech was a Panther. Stripped out the SRM 4 and ammo for medium lasers and a heat sink. Hunted light mech at range. Ambushed medium and heavy in groups. It isn't fast, but good luck getting out of range.
Decently cheap and mobile PPC carrier. I always loved it. If you don't need the jump jets the ALAG can crank the speed up to 86kph. I do prefer the jump jets though.
The Panther is an solid machine, but it never really gained favor in my eyes after I used it. It was always too slow to support an advance with its usual lancemates, the Jenner or a bug mech, required a decent gunner to make full use of the PPC. I found the best lance use for a Panther in 3025 was two Panthers and two Jenners. The abject failure of almost every Kurita design upgrade in 3050, with the notable exceptions of the Archer 5R, the Grand Dragon 5DRG, the Charger 3K, the Hatamoto-Chi and the Wolf Trap, made the 10R even worse. However, the PTB at FanPro and eventually Catalyst realized this, and now there are something like 15 Panther variants to help make up for FASA's typical downgrades.
I turn these things into snipes when I have them. Take out the ppc and srm and replace them with a large laser and lrms. Served me just fine and I kept it in cold storage when it was time to retire it.
The Panther is a mech I personally have a lot of respect for. I consider it a "pocket heavy" and tend to use it as such. 2 Panthers are basically have the armour and armament of a single Warhammer with better cooling. but I want to compare it to some of the signature mechs of their neighbours: The Valkyrie and the Wolfhound. The Valkyrie is faster, and has comparable firepower and range, but has massively lower endurance. It has only 12 volleys for it's LRM and slightly less armour than the Panther. The different in how LRMs and a PPC deal damage also massively affects their performance, with the Valkyrie's main damage source being inconsistent in both the amount of damage dealt, and how that damage spreads across a mech, whereas the Panther's PPC digs deep wholes into the armour and can even rip off other light mech's limbs in a single hit. The Panther's SRM is well suited to finding the holes that it's PPC makes. I'd argue that in a lot of cases, the Panther does the job of fire support better than the Valkyrie. The (WLF-1) Wolfhound is faster than both the Panther or Valkyrie, but lacks the jump jets. It has heavier armour as well, but it has shorter range weapons. It used a bracketed build approach and as long as it follows that approach it's well cooled. There is a big a difference between a PPC and a LL, and the Panther can out gun a Wolfhound at all ranges as long as it respects it's brackets. The Wolfhound can push itself when it needs too, but then it has to deal with crippling heat issues. In my books, it's a toss up between them, though the Wolfhound is a better scout mech due to it's speed. Man, TRO3050 has a lot of crappy "upgrades". The Panther is another mech done dirty by it.
The valkyrie has one critical advantage imho that you generally don't get to take advantage of with light mechs; indirect fire. Like if you have a lance of 4 of these bastards working together you can just torture the crap out of someone in an urban environment.
A great little mech I managed to kill an Atlas with one by sniping at it at range and jumping in and out of woods as it tried to close in to use it's ac and lasers
Not great in light scout lances because inadeqate speed, but really good add on to medium or heavy ones. It's perfect to snipe it there is someone to tank damage. Only thing I like to change is srm to lrm. Let's be honest, if you have Panther and someone closes to the range of srm you are already pretty screwed anyway.
I always debate to myself how to assemble a lance around a Panther. I feel that maybe a Dragon, Archer, and Phoenix Hawk could help bring out its ambusher/support qualities without it having to overextend and risk being cut off when in withdrawal. I recall the Panther being nicknamed "alleycat" by those who've encountered it in an urban setting, which I feel the Panther could really shine in.
The skirmisher 'Mech of the Draconis Combine. Someone had their act together when they designed this one and production has been pretty consistent ever sense.
Speed is key for some mechs that have light armor. But the panther has armor and a heavy gun yo nock off light mechs. I use the panther when I need to scout when I don't have a wolfhound. I do rather like the light mechs that can take out medium mechs. But it matters on your tactics.
Panther works best as a Sniper, staying at range near some cover to avoid return fire from anything big. It's not really good at dealing with other light mechs because they can often outrun it and move into the rear where the PPC is at a huge disadvantage and the SRM is useless. Some are tempted to use is as a trooper mech, but it's going to suffer when you're up against major firepower. It's a decent mech, but a bit niche.
The Panther has a lot of punch for its size and I generally like the mech overall, though I struggle to find much use for it personally. It's basically a small Griffin, so I generally would prefer to go with an actual Griffin for 500 more BV2 or just 250-ish more for a Vindicator.
I'm so confused that so many people are calling this an underrated mech. When I started playing we always rolled on tables for our forces and the panther was the consensus best light mech to roll, with only the Jenner being considered competition.
@@BigRed40TECH There was one guy in my playgroup who had that opinion too, but in my experience it gets shot to pieces before it's in range 3/4 times. But it is for sure a must kill.
I found that the Panther works well in support of heavier units. You have enough firepower to hurt any weight class, the armor to tank a bit, and the mobility to cover your bigger brothers.
The Panther is often under-used by many Lance Commanders. In the 2018 Battletech game I drop the SRM 4 and P. P. C. in favor of a Large Laser, Additional Armor, more Heat Sinks, and maxed Jump Jets. Using this version I have successfully taken out even a lance of Assault Mechs by bouncing the 4 Panthers around it like a quartet of vicious little mayflies. They will take a few hits, sure, but their armor ensures they can keep fighting. They have other viable uses too. As a skirmisher you can remove the P. P. C. and SRM 4 and instead put in an SRM 6 and a Medium Laser or 2 and though the damage is only comparable to that of the Commando, the Panther's armor will keep it in the fight MUCH longer. It really is difficult to go wrong with a Panther unless you try to use it in ridiculous ways. Any reasonable modifications will generally work well and some will show themselves to be borderline profound in their effectiveness.
I find the Panther makes more sense with LRM5 than SRM4 in conjunction with the PPC. I also like 1ML and LRM15 although this ignores the idea of a reasonable tube limit in the CT. Battletech has no “tubes” like in MWO
I can't say I've used it before, but I like the design more or less. That said, a light sniper has a lot of utility; fire support for heavier units with closer range weapons. Something to respect when you see it across from you.
...Always found the Panther a solid Mech: good armor & enough firepower that even heavier units can't simply ignore it. ...My old variant replaced the SRM-4 & ammo with a pair of Medium Lasers (center torso) & mounts a flamer in the left arm. Despite risk of overheating if all the weapons are fired, it allows the same amount of damage within ranges of 90 meters or less, when the PPC is less accurate, & the flamer gives it anti-personnel capacity that had been lacking. The lack of munitions also lets this variant to operate for long periods without resupply. Once Double Heat Sinks became available this variant really came into its own.
One of my favorite mechs, I've liked the design since Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries. I currently regularly use a heavily modified 10K in MWO. I've maxed out the armour, the jump jets, and put in the biggest XL engine it can fit. For weapons it has an ERPPC and an SRM6. My goal is to be the biggest pain in the ass that I can be in a match, it fits this role pretty well and it's great fun!
Full Clan Tech 3050 Rebuild of the PNT-11A Panther 5/8/5 movement, endo-steel, 6 tons of clan Fero-Fiberous, XL and DHS leaves 18.75 tons of pod space. PRIME: Clan ERPPC RA, 2 SSRM-4's R/LT with one ton of ammo each, clan MG and 0.5 tons of ammo LA, TAG, ECM, and Active Probe CT/H, 3 extra DHS Alt-Config: 2 ERLL R/LA, 2 SSRM-4's with one ton of ammo each R/LT, TAG, ECM, Active Probe CT/H, 3 extra DHS.
Great little mech in its time :-) much prefer the hollander personally as the speed of the panther let's it down a little and although the armour is good for its size it isn't good for its speed :-) great range and a nice punch for a light but I'd go for jenners over it and use mediums to get the punch of the panther :-) great overview of a mech that can be useful but is flawed :-)
I had a good friend I used to play Battletech with that had a beautifully painted Panther mini it's name I won't even try to pronounce translated to "Heartseeker" in Aztec and the way he played it in matches gave credence to that name
The 10K is insane. Even if they stripped out the extra three heat sinks and double-heat sinked the stock ten it would have been much better if crit space didn't allow doubling all thirteen.
If used as a fire support mech, the speed is less of an issue. But it becomes critical once the machine is used in literally any other mission usually given to light mechs. So better keep it as the heavy and assault class mechs to add firepower cheaply.
For a while I kept trying to use the Panther as sniper and was baffled by its categorization as a Brawler. But was generally disappointed. But it is a little brawler. I got much better results moving it into Short range in support of bigger mechs, where it's often de-prioritized as a target. Or using it to persecute other 3025 lights that try to flank my lance, but can't withstand PPC hits.
Man every one of these Mech breakdowns I watch makes me wanna go try it in MW5 lol. Tho I usually don't go smaller than medium mechs the Panther seems it could be a viable option for certain missions requiring speed. Im just not great at very mobile combat yet so I rely on more tankier Mechs like my personal Black Knight. But I also have realized I should have some lights in case the max tonnage limit is on the lighter side.
The PNT-10k SHOULD have taken off the SRM 4, CASE and the Artemis 4 FCS for two medium lasers in the center torso, and use the rest of the weight savings for heat sinks to make use of the ER PPC better. On that note, I always try to use Panthers whenever possible, after all when the Lyran's created the Wolfhound to deal with the Panther (and the Jennier as well), you KNOW it's a good mech!
I've heard that designs like the Panther and Dragon make considerably more sense when you consider the House Kurita thinks medium 'Mechs are redundant, there should only be the quick punch or recon of light 'Mechs followed by the heavy guns and armor of heavy and assault 'Mechs. Thus, the Panther and Dragon both fill the same niche. . . a medium 'Mech that isn't, technically, a medium 'Mech.
Panthers rock. Period. Want to shake things up in your local group? Show up to a game running a mass panther formation. For a different look toss in some infantry. Just to give you an idea why this mech is so nuts..... compare it to similar tech level mediums. In 3025 for every 3 wolverines you can bring 4 panthers. For every 4 centurions... 5 panthers. That extra mech may not seem like a great exchange until you consider that you have comparable armor and usually you have more hole punching weapons for the bv. How do you use them? Get on a hill or in some woods in a mass formation. Pour out those ppc shots at the outside edge of medium range. Be a jerk and rotate your forces. A panther takes hits... fall back with that one and move up with a different one. Take turns cooling off. Where you will shine is psr checks and the fact that you are a bit more resilient vs through armor crits. Your individual risk is the same, but that low bv means you get more mechs on the field. I cant emphasize this enough. Pack in some infantry to your force if possible just to pack your initiative. Want to be a further jerk? Take a battlemaster with the command console as your lone heavier mech. That initiative bonus plus your numbers will turn your force into a mean mean thing to deal with. This means you get to move last with the critical moves far more. That means your forcing your opponent into wasted moves a lot more and you can then focus your fire onto his mistakes. If you have a mech fall its not the end of the work since its really just 1 ppc lost. Your opponent though.... he is probably sweating any mech falling over because if he doesnt get back up quickly you are going to stomp him. Alternative to the battlemaster... make a modified panther. Strip the srm4s off the mech and put a command console on it. That will let you run 5 panthers on a 4k bv list, 1 of them being the command console version and have 198 points left over for infantry. You can easily get up to 7 units on the field in a 4k bv game where your opponent will likely be running 3-4 mechs. 5 ppcs in a 4k game and 5 mechs that all have the potential to take a few hits before they need to fall back behind the line is really effective.
My favorite IS light mech! This thing is a MONSTER! Pair 'em with Urbies and they can really clear a room! My preference is a Large Laser and an SRM6, giving this thing a serious close-range punch. And yes, it can truly punch above its weight: it can trade blows with mechs twice its size! 😳 And the 10K sucks. It's shit.
in 3025 4/6/4 is actually a pretty average speed; Like it's not until the 3050 era that you see speed become so much more viable due to the presence of XL engines and Endosteel. Further, the loss of speed while unfortunate isn't crippling like it would be for the urbanmech; it can't keep up with a wasp or a commando, but the PPC gives it so much reach that it doesn't really matter since pretty much everything has to come to it. Further, the jump jets give it enough maneuverability that it can straight up deny enemies shots by just jumping deep into a forest or behind a hill or a building.
Lightest trooper in the Sphere. It's too slow for it's original purpose, but in this configuration, it's a lot like an Urbie only faster. The Alleycat is a ninjawannabe mothermugger. But given that the DCMS' other trooper is the faster Dragon explains a lot about the DCMS. And I see the Bears rebuilding the Panthers they got as Isorla from the FRR would be decent- I've always figured Clan LPLs but possibly the PPC, and DHS. SSRM4 w/ clan ammo bins. Slow, but for solhoma and dezgra it frees up Clan second lines to go to the front lines to fill in for lost omnis.
My rebuild of the 10K resolves the speed problem to 6/8/4 by replacing the 13HS with 10DHS n replacing the engine with the weight saved. I've also upgraded the SRM4(with Artemis) with SSRM4; then with 1ton to spare, I install x1 ML in the left arm. Now I have a better preforming Panther, thou a bit pricier perhaps. But why are there so few suggestions here about increasing its speed as well?
The Panther is one of those mechs showcasing the sillyness of design system. I mean, 7 tons of a 35 ton mech located in one arm? How is that thing able to move without toppling over due to its imbalance?
In my experience this thing pretty universally ends up fighting medium mechs and gets outmatched. In a very lightweight match it matters, but it’s tactical value diminishes with the concentration of fighting power.
I have used this mech alot and you can do a lot of..."interesting" things with this mech. I do prefer removing the ammo, srm so no chance of ammo explosions and fittings two meduim lasers as the ppc can't really hit at short range.
query, in game, can you make upgrades and changed to mechs all your own? wether it be MW5 or the tabletop? Say i wanted to run a panther, could i change it's armor to stealth armor, given the right era? or would i need to use an "available" variant?
You can upgrade mechs with ease in HBS Battletech (2018) and MW5, or MW4, or MW3, or MW2 even. The community often obsesses with making variants in order to "fix" them even. I will say though, it doesn't line up well in universe. Customizing mechs is extraordinarily expensive. Often the fixes are very gamification based, and don't match up with how companies or governments would want to 'fix' the mechs either, or don't take certain limitations into account. You're of course, free to customize as you choose, there are rules for doing so and a lot of people get a lot of joy out of it. I myself find the game is balanced on stock designs, and breaks with rampant customization, so the only time we really allow for that with the folks I play with, tends to be if we're running campaigns / RPGs.
PNT-10K model would have made a lot more sense as easy to do field upgrade without Endo Steel. Endo Steel upgrade practically requires a factory, and with such resources involved, there should be no reason not to use double heat sinks. Unless Combine has shortage of them but more plentiful supply of Endo Steel.
I'm not a fan of the stock Panther, but by replacing the PPC with 2x M-Lasers & the 4SRM with a 6SMR it becomes a more heat neutral mech that can fight at close range.
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As a Fourth Succession war vet I stand by the strength of the PNT-9R. It is by far one of the more misunderstood and misused assets on the battlefield. So many young Chu-i tend to squander them. One of the nastiest tactics I learned was to use Panthers with Jenner's in slashing and smashing attacks. The Jenner's would run ahead drawing out the enemy hitting them hard then withdrawing back towards Panthers hiding with clear firing lines towards the enemies following the Jenner's... Just when they think they have our Jenner's dead to rights... The Panthers strike and they hit hard, smashing armor withe those PPCs. Then the Jenner's turn back on their pursuers and destroy them with all of the night of the dragon!
Imagine at the start of the succession wars. You realize that Davion had tons of med factories available and adequate heavy mech factories, Steiner had tons of assault mech factories. While you have mostly light mech factories.
While you as Kurita had the SLDF light mech factories, you panic for a bit the come to the conclusion you need a light mech that can do what a medium mech does, the chassis you have can slug it out with a Med at the cost of speed and with some tinkering you can mount the devastating PPC if you take off its large laser. Kurita really made the most of a bad situation.
While Liao was stuck pumping out urbanmechs to its front line units.
At least Liao got the Vindicator which is arguably the best trooper medium out of all the Houses.
@@stevens9625 it's honestly a decent side by side comparison next to the Panther. Same speed. Similar weapons. But the Vindicator is a bit better, heavier, and more expensive overall.
@@stevens9625 I'm afraid there are plenty of disagreements. Enforcer has 2 big guns against Vindy's 1. I have seen Wolverine WVR-6M claimed to be the best medium 'Mech of the Succession Wars, and Griffin GRF-1S is remarkably similar. Vindicator isn't bad by any means, just ... close to average. Certainly better than CGR-1L.
@@mattikuokkanen Enforcer has 1 ton reload for the AC10, afterwards, it's got the damage profile of a Cicada. I'd pick the Centurion over Enforcer any day. Griffin was designed in the 2800s and it shows - 12 heat sinks doesn't allow it to shoot and JJ at the same time let alone use that LRM10 so basically an up-armoured Panther that costs 40% more (the LL version is a beast tho).
WVR-6M IS the best medium mech in my book too but it's not tied to a specific faction I believe.
@@stevens9625 GRF-1S has large laser, 2 mediums, and lrm 5. Made in Lyran Commonwealth. WVR-6M is made in Free Worlds League.
A Panther was actually the very 1st mech I ever piloted in the tabletop game...
I got one shot off with ghe PPC sniping a mech in the head, Jumped next to a level 2 cliff to avoid return fire, And was immediately assassinated by a company of SRM infantry Hiding in the woods atop it, With the infamous leftorso critical..
Glorious KABOOM.
Speed is indeed life, but also range is life too. Panthers range and armor keep it alive often. Really only truly fearing a wolfhound or a ppc armed medium or heavy. When playing Kurita always have them and generally putting them with jenners and phoenix hawks, using them much like I'd use a griffin.
Speed is life is a common saying in all too many games but I think this is too one sided.
While moving fast makes you harder to hit I believe there should be corresponding penalties for the fast moving shooter. The faster you are moving the harder it is for you to accurately target something. Penalties far more than the original simple firing penalties based on whether you walk or run. There should be more penalties if you run 12 movement points than running at 6
@@johnfisher9692 the point of mechs was move and fire while pointing armor and weapons at the enemy
@@johnfisher9692 I always thought that the defenders movement modifier should be used for the attackers.
@John Fisher I think the idea is that lights made to move that fast have better suspensions and less momentum and g forces so they are less affected by running than youd think. Which is my retcon, hand-wavey way of saying... don't make light mechs any worse than they are haha
Range, plus maneuverability. Combining devastating firepower with the jump jets to maneuver between protected firing positions swiftly is one hell of a one-two punch.
One of my favorite things to do with the Panther in MWO and HBS' Battletech, was to pull the armor back a little bit, mount a 2nd PPC, and a shit ton of Jump Jets.
It was always so much fun to get behind enemy lines, and make their lives absolute Hell.
For its weight-class The Panther is a dang BEAST.
Seriously, you willing to switch the energy punch to Medium Laser/s and scrape the armor a bit, and you can do some silly, silly stuff with its missile load-out. LRM 15 on a light mech, anybody?
So a slower Valkyrie with less armor?
@@PopeMetallicus this is why I believe PGI could've done more with the mech pool
@@PopeMetallicus To be fair, the Valkyrie was Unseen for literally decades while the Panther remained common through the Inner Sphere.
the panther is a light mech in the same way the orion is a heavy
it is just below the 40 tons required to be a medium, and is effectively a 35 ton centurion (atleast to me)
the orion is called the poor mans atlas, that is because it is basically a 75 ton atlas that runs at 64.8kph
A very under-rated mech, and one of my personal favorite light mechs. It functions better IMO as a discount / “poor man’s medium mech”, providing fire support to medium lances or as an escort for larger mechs, than it does in a scout lance.
I feel like if you use it in a light lance (as the fluff suggests) it often gets left behind and picked off. Enemies won’t bother wasting shots at the fast scouts, and instead focus their fire on the slow Panther. It’s real strength only becomes apparent once you start treating it like 3025’s “lightest medium mech” … which it essentially is. Grouping it with mediums also helps with target saturation and reducing the amount of incoming enemy fire it has to contend with - because a Panther in a medium lance will often be ignored, as the least threatening mech in the lance, and can often blast away with the PPC all game. Which does real damage, hitting above its weight / BV over the course of a game.
I find it suffers immensely from combined arms. Tanks are almost always better at being the cheapest PPC money can buy, and at providing noncommittal rear gunnery support, and it can end up cornered very easily and cost effectively by infantry or things like Scorpions.
I find it truly excels in non-lance, BV or C-Bill total, Mech only battles, where it's one of the best upwards punchers you can get.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 That’s true, but then again balance goes kind of completely out the window in combined arms, unless both players are exercising heaps of restraint. Otherwise somebody could just bring a ton of Savanna Masters and Shreks and probably blow whatever opposing mechs they face clean off the board.
Tanks do have some downsides (e.g., motive hits), but IMO they’re much, MUCH more efficiently pointed than most mechs. Which is part of the reason I prefer not to play combined arms, personally. I think mechs are the best and most iconic/nostalgic thing about Battletech, and combined arms turns a lot of them into total pushovers. But I also recognize that lots of people like combined arms. I really only consider it for narrative campaigns.
Point taken.
@@n00bfishie
There are a couple of true standout Mechs in combined arms that do even better than usual, though. The Firestarter is one everyone knows about, but the Grasshopper is one of the best Mechs for combined arms, period.
Mostly, mechs need to emphasize mobility and flexibility to excel in combined arms. Mechs built around single weapon systems, big slow fire support platforms, and shotgun boats are generally the mech designs that crumple in the face of combined arms.
I'm still fairly new to the Battletech franchise, so the way I think is quite... archaic.
You think of the light mechs as a concept, and your brain imagines them as something meant for scouting and infantry support.
Then you get stuff like Commando, Panther and Wolfhound and everything you know goes all topsy-turvy...
Closest analogue I can think of are tank destroyers. Small frame, huge gun. xD
It's a good way to think of 'em, I'd say.
Lightmechs generally fulfil the role of scouts/recon, seek and destroy, raiding and swift response mechs; they're effectively the "light infantry" of the setting's mechs and generally considered crucial for assaulting urban environments since they can get to critical point (IE Munition dumps, generators, command centers) much faster to soften up their enemies. This isn't to say that they don't do anti-personel work as well (The firestarter and Locust are vicious in this way).
In this way, you could probably think of the Panther as being a sniper; it's mobile enough that it can get into position quickly, has a hard hitting gun with good range and provides covering fire for the rest of the 4 mech lance.
Most Lights are either scouts, or strikers. Strikers are fast mechs which do a lot of damage in a single volley, but are meant to dash out, hit, and dash back to cover.
The Panther is odd in that it's really a lot more like a medium "trooper" mech, but a cheaper by a half-million C-Bills or more.
That is pretty much what they should be thought of as.
Things might make more sense if you consider speeds of different 'Mechs. Panther isn't for recon because of its weight. It's for front line combat because of its speed. In front line combat Panther gets outclassed by medium and heavy 'Mechs. But because Panther is cheap, given scenario can either have other stronger 'Mechs in addition, or more Panthers to outnumber the enemy. So if Lyrans or FedRats bring a full lance of medium 'Mechs, then Drac can bring 2 Panthers, Crusader, and Thunderbolt for example. Consider Panther as an equivalent of a real world 6 ton Vickers E tank & derivatives (T-26): light, slow, and cheap to fill up the ranks in short order.
Panthers always seemed like a medium troop. Kind of like the Dragon is really a medium cavalry mech. Seems like the Combine got screwed on mech production, like they were the mochs of the universe.
Always loved them, always wanted a Panther II to keep it up with new tech.
The Panther's low speed often results in it having to engage units it shouldn't
One of the best ‘mechs in its weight class. Very efficient way of fielding a PPC on a mobile chassis for cheap. The missiles can also deliver a good killing blow up close after the enemy has been softened up at range.
Everyone underestimates the Panther until they're ammo cooks off. lol
@@BigRed40TECH Everyone underestimates the Panther until they realize there's a fucking Jenner behind them.
@@shabmaster7128 Yeah, that's the other half of the *Daisho*; the Jenner can rapidly flank whoever decides to take the fight with the Panther or the Panther can side/rear shot them if they take the fight with the jenner.
The Panther is a model pocket medium. I see it as the Combine equivalent of the Valkyrie for the Suns, with both packing an oversized weapon on a slow light chassis that is available in huge numbers. Between the two, I prefer the Panther's PPC to the Valkyrie's LRM10, and I always appreciate a maximum-armor design. That said, I wonder if the Panther wouldn't be better off running an LRM5 with the PPC and relying on the ever-ubiquitous bug 'Mechs and Jenners for close-in defense.
Iirc, you would either need an extra sink or be limited to a walk or start to run hot. The SRM covers the minimum range of the PPC if/when things fall through and helps keep trigger happy pilots from cooking off their ammo and wasting your mech.
While I like the Panther, I think the thing I like most about them was that they forced the creation of the Wolfhound, my absolute favorite light 'mech of all time.
Something I just realized. I like the Panther a lot as a light direct fire-support unit. Always have.
However I strongly dislike the 20 tons heavier Griffin, even though it is functionally the same mech and serves a similar role with a higher speed and more armor.
I suppose the reason why is that for a 55 ton mech, the Griffin feels alarmingly under-gunned, whereas the 35 ton Panther feels like it punches above its weight even if it is slower and less armored.
This is one of those Mechs that when I see it I immediately switch from kill to cripple. The PPC is indeed a nasty piece of work and so instead of trying to drill through its center torso armor I immediately start aiming for that right arm almost exclusively. The hunchback is another similar mech where it's usually wiser to try and disable its weapon system then try to take it out out right.
In one of my more memorable games while fielding a Panther, I was able to bring down a Battlemaster with a headshot and blow the leg off of a Dragon. It's a great little mech that can comfortably brawl with bigger opponents. That PPC is downright dangerous! It's a bit on the slow side, but can still jump and has good armor coverage for its weight. I tend to use them as bodyguards, pairing them with bigger lancemates to watch their backs and deter light flankers. For less than 800 BV2, it can definitely give a good return on investment. Even if it's taken out, it's done its job by taking heat off of others in your list.
this mech make sense in the fact the combine use few medium so it fill the roles that a vindicator or a enforcer for the combine. its your stand on the line mech to absorb fire while your big boys get in place. It is also interesting that the dragon is the favor heavy which act more as a heavy calvery. This let the panther handle more of a defensive posture where it can guard key area and site letting jenner and dragon handle the more mobile flow of the battlefield. You have Jenner screening the dragons while the panther protect the rear.
When ever In my game of MW5 I see a light mech icon I lock on it to see if it's a panther or not and when I see a panther I would do my best to shot its arm off with the ppc but it's a good mech to use I'm just glad that their not any faster when it has the ppc which is most what I come across the game
Proud kurita warrior. Love Panthers. Thanks.
There's not much to say on the Panther that hasn't already been said.
The base design is one of the times where a mech seems to get something right straight from the initial production line. It might not have the speed of other light mechs but if I needed a single light to support the Cent/Treb combo then the direct firing PPC would make it an appreciable solution.
The designers of the 10K wouldn't stand trial. They would be ordered to commit suicide by the coordinator.(king)
Hands down, one of my favourite light mechs. It looks amazing, and can punch significantly above its weight. Not fast, but those jump jets compensate, and it can be quite tough, as you say.
All in all, probably one of my top three light mechs.
Even before Clan invasion, Panthers went up against Lyran Griffins and Suns Enforcers. Though in cost and game terms this would mean Panthers having a numerical superiority. Quantity over quality.
It was always one of my favorite light mechs. The lightest mech hauling that PPC. It was fantastic surprise for an unprepared enemy.
My favorite DCMS mech period. Loved killing them, hated facing them. Great unit.
For Light Mechs, speed is definitely life--case in point, the Fire Moth, a speedster to begin with at 10MP and with MASC doubling that to 20, making it the Roadrunner to other mech's Wile E. Coyote. For mediums, speed and armor are a must, so that the mech can take one or two solid hits while dodging enemy fire. When you get into Assault class, though, speed and mobility are a moot point, as thick armor protects against a wide variety of weapons and allows the mech to simply rhinohide through a battle. Think of fast, light mechs as the irresistible force, and assaults as the immovable object.
Ah, the Panther... I've never been able to truly appreciate this mech. It's just too under-armored for its speed, or too slow for its armor; however you want to look at it.
I've always opted for other lights, despite their shorter ranges.
Still, I am now introducing one into a Battle Lance for my mercenary company on the tabletop. I'm pairing it with a Warhammer, a Rifleman, and an Enforcer. A lance that can move at a common pace, and deal some heavy damage at long range.
I hope it will prove worthy of the praise I always see it receiving, online.
Hello Red.
I started playing B-tech back in 1984, and chose the Davion faction. This meant that I did not have access to the Panther for several years due to playing it 'by the book'. Within a few more years, I had captured, bought, or otherwise obtained several Panthers for my own Mercenary Force, the Star Lions Corps.
As you've said, I found the Panthers to be a flexible and reliable machine to use up until the Clan Invasion. By that time though, as I've said before in other comments, my Unit had vacated the Inner Sphere to set up their own Colony in the Periphery. Returning to the Inner Sphere with new machines and a new Unit Name, the Ghost Lions Legion.
The Legions make extensive use of Panthers. Especially the PNT-12K, and the PNT-12K2. The Ghost Lions also tinkered with the PNT-12KC, making a variant they named the PNT-12KC-a. This Mech removes all weapons excepting the PPC, and the C3 Slave unit, in favor of an additional Clan heat sink, an ER Medium Laser, and a Medium Pulse Laser, both of which are moved to the Center Torso.
Although the PNT-12KC-a does run a tad bit 'hot', it also removes a weakness of the Panther designs overall. That being its ammo dependency and vulnerability to ammo explosions. By making the Mech a full 'energy boat', it also frees up the unit for longer duration missions, and deep penetration raiding missions.
This was felt to be more useful than relying upon a vulnerability to seek critical hits on Enemy Mechs.
The 'Stock' Panther, in its day, was a powerful force on the battlefields of the 3025 Era. And though the design stumbled here and there, it's later variations prove the concept that a 'heavy-light' Mech can be a force to tip battles in one's favor.
If you were going to make an entire company of a single light mech design, this is the best candidate for it. Long range and relatively heavy armor making facing a company of Panthers the equivalent of charging into a lance of Awesomes. While speed is a form of protection, greater range is a counter for speed. A Jenner running full out vs a Panther walking forward with a range of 8 hexes between them. The Panther has a 11+ to hit (assuming 4 gunnery for both pilots). Ouch, tough shot. The Jenner has an 11+ at the same range. So the Jenner isn't any better off. If the Jenner jumped 7 instead of running, the Panther's chance to hit remains 11, but the Jenner's goes to 12. If the Jenner closes to the 4-6 range its chance to hit improves by 2, and so does the Panthers. the Jenner only gains an advantage when it closes to the 1-3 hex range, and then it has to maintain speed but stay within 3 hexes of the target and still move enough to keep its modifier which isn't really possible. Which means to keep that speed modifier the Jenner is going to move between range brackets giving the Panther more opportunities to slip in a good shot.
The Jenner should fair better because it has more weapons and thus more chances to score a hit. That said, a few lucky shots and the fight can easily flip to the Panther. Especially if the Panther doesn't stick to open plains and instead chooses to head into rough terrain when the Jenner's speed will have to drop making it more vulnerable.
I've fought enough of these things as a FedSun Merc to eye them wearily even behind the cockpit of Catapult. I've lost too many PPCs and Lasers to underestimate these surprisingly tough buggers
8:18 I want to see a story where the Panther 10K and atlas 7K designers are forced to commit Seppuku for their atrocious designs.
First game I played against this thing it just would. Not. Die! Truly a plucky underdog with the equipment to pay for its light cost.
I absolutely love the Panther, but have to say that the PNT-9ALAG has to be one of the most sensible refits of the mech.
The lack of jump jets can be a bit of a pain, but the 5/8 movement profile lets it keep up in a formation with DRG-1N Dragons and DRG-1G Grand Dragons in the Succession Wars.
I don't really like this thing, but that's mostly because I almost always play combined arms, and almost any mech built around a single weapon, especially a longer ranged fire support platform, are better replaced by a vehicle.
I imagine it really shines in non-lance, BV total battles, where it can really leverage its ability to operate more or less independently, and trade up in value.
I love the look. It hits very hard for a Light. It's just too damn slow.
The 13K variant is rather good. ER _anything_ should not belong on any mech without double heat sinks. Open plains and tundra are the only biomes ER's aren't a detriment, since cover is a thing.
In the old days, I liked the Panther. As I progressed, I determined that a large laser and a bigger engine would have made the Panther more viable.
Yep, the PPC is the panthers greatest mistake. Downgrade to a large laser and youve still got enough firepower to do its intended job but now youve eliminated heat issues and can invest the freed up weight into better mobility. All round better for what its supposed to do imo.
Probably my favorite light mech, I swap the ppc and srm for twin L lasers and Twin M lasers in HBS battletech.
Always loved the Panther, but I always played Kurita so have a thing for their mechs...
Big panther fan. It's a light with the weapons and armour to tango. Not the fastest, but fast and long ranged enough for most situations.
My first mech was a Panther. Stripped out the SRM 4 and ammo for medium lasers and a heat sink. Hunted light mech at range. Ambushed medium and heavy in groups.
It isn't fast, but good luck getting out of range.
Decently cheap and mobile PPC carrier.
I always loved it.
If you don't need the jump jets the ALAG can crank the speed up to 86kph. I do prefer the jump jets though.
Its a light trooper mech. And for that, it's pretty Kuritan.
The Panther is an solid machine, but it never really gained favor in my eyes after I used it. It was always too slow to support an advance with its usual lancemates, the Jenner or a bug mech, required a decent gunner to make full use of the PPC. I found the best lance use for a Panther in 3025 was two Panthers and two Jenners. The abject failure of almost every Kurita design upgrade in 3050, with the notable exceptions of the Archer 5R, the Grand Dragon 5DRG, the Charger 3K, the Hatamoto-Chi and the Wolf Trap, made the 10R even worse. However, the PTB at FanPro and eventually Catalyst realized this, and now there are something like 15 Panther variants to help make up for FASA's typical downgrades.
I turn these things into snipes when I have them. Take out the ppc and srm and replace them with a large laser and lrms. Served me just fine and I kept it in cold storage when it was time to retire it.
The Panther is a mech I personally have a lot of respect for. I consider it a "pocket heavy" and tend to use it as such. 2 Panthers are basically have the armour and armament of a single Warhammer with better cooling. but I want to compare it to some of the signature mechs of their neighbours: The Valkyrie and the Wolfhound.
The Valkyrie is faster, and has comparable firepower and range, but has massively lower endurance. It has only 12 volleys for it's LRM and slightly less armour than the Panther. The different in how LRMs and a PPC deal damage also massively affects their performance, with the Valkyrie's main damage source being inconsistent in both the amount of damage dealt, and how that damage spreads across a mech, whereas the Panther's PPC digs deep wholes into the armour and can even rip off other light mech's limbs in a single hit. The Panther's SRM is well suited to finding the holes that it's PPC makes. I'd argue that in a lot of cases, the Panther does the job of fire support better than the Valkyrie.
The (WLF-1) Wolfhound is faster than both the Panther or Valkyrie, but lacks the jump jets. It has heavier armour as well, but it has shorter range weapons. It used a bracketed build approach and as long as it follows that approach it's well cooled. There is a big a difference between a PPC and a LL, and the Panther can out gun a Wolfhound at all ranges as long as it respects it's brackets. The Wolfhound can push itself when it needs too, but then it has to deal with crippling heat issues. In my books, it's a toss up between them, though the Wolfhound is a better scout mech due to it's speed.
Man, TRO3050 has a lot of crappy "upgrades". The Panther is another mech done dirty by it.
The valkyrie has one critical advantage imho that you generally don't get to take advantage of with light mechs; indirect fire. Like if you have a lance of 4 of these bastards working together you can just torture the crap out of someone in an urban environment.
@@guitarhausdoesntknowwhatac3285
Completely true. That is why I said that the Panther is a better fire support mech in a lot of cases, not all.
A great little mech I managed to kill an Atlas with one by sniping at it at range and jumping in and out of woods as it tried to close in to use it's ac and lasers
Not great in light scout lances because inadeqate speed, but really good add on to medium or heavy ones. It's perfect to snipe it there is someone to tank damage. Only thing I like to change is srm to lrm. Let's be honest, if you have Panther and someone closes to the range of srm you are already pretty screwed anyway.
I always debate to myself how to assemble a lance around a Panther. I feel that maybe a Dragon, Archer, and Phoenix Hawk could help bring out its ambusher/support qualities without it having to overextend and risk being cut off when in withdrawal. I recall the Panther being nicknamed "alleycat" by those who've encountered it in an urban setting, which I feel the Panther could really shine in.
The skirmisher 'Mech of the Draconis Combine. Someone had their act together when they designed this one and production has been pretty consistent ever sense.
Always thought the SRM4 was an odd choice. I usually swap it out for an LRM5 or LRM10.
Speed is key for some mechs that have light armor. But the panther has armor and a heavy gun yo nock off light mechs. I use the panther when I need to scout when I don't have a wolfhound. I do rather like the light mechs that can take out medium mechs. But it matters on your tactics.
Panther works best as a Sniper, staying at range near some cover to avoid return fire from anything big. It's not really good at dealing with other light mechs because they can often outrun it and move into the rear where the PPC is at a huge disadvantage and the SRM is useless. Some are tempted to use is as a trooper mech, but it's going to suffer when you're up against major firepower. It's a decent mech, but a bit niche.
The Panther has a lot of punch for its size and I generally like the mech overall, though I struggle to find much use for it personally. It's basically a small Griffin, so I generally would prefer to go with an actual Griffin for 500 more BV2 or just 250-ish more for a Vindicator.
I'm so confused that so many people are calling this an underrated mech. When I started playing we always rolled on tables for our forces and the panther was the consensus best light mech to roll, with only the Jenner being considered competition.
I think the FS9 is another better fighter, but overall I think the PNT series being considered "bad" is just a misunderstanding of how to use it.
@@BigRed40TECH There was one guy in my playgroup who had that opinion too, but in my experience it gets shot to pieces before it's in range 3/4 times. But it is for sure a must kill.
@@AdairCorbin There is a solution to that. Bring all Firestarters. :D
@@BigRed40TECH That's so terrifying in a small battle of lights and mediums!
Such a cool Mech to look at.
I found that the Panther works well in support of heavier units. You have enough firepower to hurt any weight class, the armor to tank a bit, and the mobility to cover your bigger brothers.
Pretty alright mech. A Medium Mech in all but name and for any aspiring Mechwarrior, it’s Baby’s First PPC.
The Panther is often under-used by many Lance Commanders. In the 2018 Battletech game I drop the SRM 4 and P. P. C. in favor of a Large Laser, Additional Armor, more Heat Sinks, and maxed Jump Jets. Using this version I have successfully taken out even a lance of Assault Mechs by bouncing the 4 Panthers around it like a quartet of vicious little mayflies. They will take a few hits, sure, but their armor ensures they can keep fighting. They have other viable uses too. As a skirmisher you can remove the P. P. C. and SRM 4 and instead put in an SRM 6 and a Medium Laser or 2 and though the damage is only comparable to that of the Commando, the Panther's armor will keep it in the fight MUCH longer.
It really is difficult to go wrong with a Panther unless you try to use it in ridiculous ways. Any reasonable modifications will generally work well and some will show themselves to be borderline profound in their effectiveness.
I find the Panther makes more sense with LRM5 than SRM4 in conjunction with the PPC. I also like 1ML and LRM15 although this ignores the idea of a reasonable tube limit in the CT. Battletech has no “tubes” like in MWO
I can't say I've used it before, but I like the design more or less. That said, a light sniper has a lot of utility; fire support for heavier units with closer range weapons.
Something to respect when you see it across from you.
...Always found the Panther a solid Mech: good armor & enough firepower that even heavier units can't simply ignore it.
...My old variant replaced the SRM-4 & ammo with a pair of Medium Lasers (center torso) & mounts a flamer in the left arm. Despite risk of overheating if all the weapons are fired, it allows the same amount of damage within ranges of 90 meters or less, when the PPC is less accurate, & the flamer gives it anti-personnel capacity that had been lacking. The lack of munitions also lets this variant to operate for long periods without resupply. Once Double Heat Sinks became available this variant really came into its own.
One of my favorite mechs, I've liked the design since Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries. I currently regularly use a heavily modified 10K in MWO. I've maxed out the armour, the jump jets, and put in the biggest XL engine it can fit. For weapons it has an ERPPC and an SRM6. My goal is to be the biggest pain in the ass that I can be in a match, it fits this role pretty well and it's great fun!
I'll still take my little Firebee any day of the week and twice on Sunday, weak legs and all.
Full Clan Tech 3050 Rebuild of the PNT-11A Panther
5/8/5 movement, endo-steel, 6 tons of clan Fero-Fiberous, XL and DHS leaves 18.75 tons of pod space.
PRIME: Clan ERPPC RA, 2 SSRM-4's R/LT with one ton of ammo each, clan MG and 0.5 tons of ammo LA, TAG, ECM, and Active Probe CT/H, 3 extra DHS
Alt-Config: 2 ERLL R/LA, 2 SSRM-4's with one ton of ammo each R/LT, TAG, ECM, Active Probe CT/H, 3 extra DHS.
Speaking of the Panther, I'd love to see the Wolfhound get a video! My favorite light mech
It will be covered when I get passed the TRO: 3025 revised mechs.
Wolfhound's an interesting one/ Designed to hunt panthers and scare off Jenners.
@@BigRed40TECH That's what I hoped, looking forward to it!
any interest in a full clan tech 3050 rebuild of the wolfhound?
@@TheStraycat74 That's just Grinner after Phelan joined the wolves.
I thought oly the Large Laser had the accidental high heat issue and the 9R fixed it entirely (before the 10K ruined it). Interesting!
Ur delivery, as always is impeccable. Keep up the great work
Much appreciated!
Great little mech in its time :-) much prefer the hollander personally as the speed of the panther let's it down a little and although the armour is good for its size it isn't good for its speed :-) great range and a nice punch for a light but I'd go for jenners over it and use mediums to get the punch of the panther :-) great overview of a mech that can be useful but is flawed :-)
I had a good friend I used to play Battletech with that had a beautifully painted Panther mini it's name I won't even try to pronounce translated to "Heartseeker" in Aztec and the way he played it in matches gave credence to that name
Its a light, low cost replacement for heavy and medium mechs in an engagement you know you will win.
The 10K is insane. Even if they stripped out the extra three heat sinks and double-heat sinked the stock ten it would have been much better if crit space didn't allow doubling all thirteen.
One of my favorite small Mech :) Hey may be small but mount a 'BIG "BUMM" !^^
"You guys just wait. When I get there, I'm going to snipe the shit out of ya with this PPC. ...Guys? Guys, where did the fight go?"
"The Panther is too slow, how are we supposed to retreat?"
* Kurita pilot strapping on Banzai headband * "Thats the neat part, we don't"
Ah yes, the Combine's Wolfhound fodder. I love the little gato bueno.
If used as a fire support mech, the speed is less of an issue.
But it becomes critical once the machine is used in literally any other mission usually given to light mechs.
So better keep it as the heavy and assault class mechs to add firepower cheaply.
After watching your videos, you deserve way more views and subs!
The Panther is just an Urbi that has hit the gym
I am the panther. Hear me roar!
surprised that Panthers weren't given C3 computers as they could really benefit from it's usage as the fire support for a light mech lance or unit.
For a while I kept trying to use the Panther as sniper and was baffled by its categorization as a Brawler. But was generally disappointed. But it is a little brawler. I got much better results moving it into Short range in support of bigger mechs, where it's often de-prioritized as a target. Or using it to persecute other 3025 lights that try to flank my lance, but can't withstand PPC hits.
I just started reading the books. A bit over half way done with the Grey Death Legion series.
Man every one of these Mech breakdowns I watch makes me wanna go try it in MW5 lol. Tho I usually don't go smaller than medium mechs the Panther seems it could be a viable option for certain missions requiring speed. Im just not great at very mobile combat yet so I rely on more tankier Mechs like my personal Black Knight. But I also have realized I should have some lights in case the max tonnage limit is on the lighter side.
The PNT-10k SHOULD have taken off the SRM 4, CASE and the Artemis 4 FCS for two medium lasers in the center torso, and use the rest of the weight savings for heat sinks to make use of the ER PPC better. On that note, I always try to use Panthers whenever possible, after all when the Lyran's created the Wolfhound to deal with the Panther (and the Jennier as well), you KNOW it's a good mech!
I've heard that designs like the Panther and Dragon make considerably more sense when you consider the House Kurita thinks medium 'Mechs are redundant, there should only be the quick punch or recon of light 'Mechs followed by the heavy guns and armor of heavy and assault 'Mechs.
Thus, the Panther and Dragon both fill the same niche. . . a medium 'Mech that isn't, technically, a medium 'Mech.
Panthers rock. Period. Want to shake things up in your local group? Show up to a game running a mass panther formation. For a different look toss in some infantry.
Just to give you an idea why this mech is so nuts..... compare it to similar tech level mediums. In 3025 for every 3 wolverines you can bring 4 panthers. For every 4 centurions... 5 panthers. That extra mech may not seem like a great exchange until you consider that you have comparable armor and usually you have more hole punching weapons for the bv.
How do you use them? Get on a hill or in some woods in a mass formation. Pour out those ppc shots at the outside edge of medium range. Be a jerk and rotate your forces. A panther takes hits... fall back with that one and move up with a different one. Take turns cooling off. Where you will shine is psr checks and the fact that you are a bit more resilient vs through armor crits. Your individual risk is the same, but that low bv means you get more mechs on the field.
I cant emphasize this enough. Pack in some infantry to your force if possible just to pack your initiative. Want to be a further jerk? Take a battlemaster with the command console as your lone heavier mech. That initiative bonus plus your numbers will turn your force into a mean mean thing to deal with. This means you get to move last with the critical moves far more. That means your forcing your opponent into wasted moves a lot more and you can then focus your fire onto his mistakes. If you have a mech fall its not the end of the work since its really just 1 ppc lost. Your opponent though.... he is probably sweating any mech falling over because if he doesnt get back up quickly you are going to stomp him. Alternative to the battlemaster... make a modified panther. Strip the srm4s off the mech and put a command console on it. That will let you run 5 panthers on a 4k bv list, 1 of them being the command console version and have 198 points left over for infantry. You can easily get up to 7 units on the field in a 4k bv game where your opponent will likely be running 3-4 mechs. 5 ppcs in a 4k game and 5 mechs that all have the potential to take a few hits before they need to fall back behind the line is really effective.
My favorite IS light mech! This thing is a MONSTER! Pair 'em with Urbies and they can really clear a room! My preference is a Large Laser and an SRM6, giving this thing a serious close-range punch.
And yes, it can truly punch above its weight: it can trade blows with mechs twice its size! 😳
And the 10K sucks. It's shit.
You'd think with4/6/4 movement it would be shite, but in 3025 it's an excellent 'Mech in most situations.
in 3025 4/6/4 is actually a pretty average speed; Like it's not until the 3050 era that you see speed become so much more viable due to the presence of XL engines and Endosteel.
Further, the loss of speed while unfortunate isn't crippling like it would be for the urbanmech; it can't keep up with a wasp or a commando, but the PPC gives it so much reach that it doesn't really matter since pretty much everything has to come to it. Further, the jump jets give it enough maneuverability that it can straight up deny enemies shots by just jumping deep into a forest or behind a hill or a building.
Lightest trooper in the Sphere. It's too slow for it's original purpose, but in this configuration, it's a lot like an Urbie only faster. The Alleycat is a ninjawannabe mothermugger. But given that the DCMS' other trooper is the faster Dragon explains a lot about the DCMS.
And I see the Bears rebuilding the Panthers they got as Isorla from the FRR would be decent- I've always figured Clan LPLs but possibly the PPC, and DHS. SSRM4 w/ clan ammo bins. Slow, but for solhoma and dezgra it frees up Clan second lines to go to the front lines to fill in for lost omnis.
My rebuild of the 10K resolves the speed problem to 6/8/4 by replacing the 13HS with 10DHS n replacing the engine with the weight saved. I've also upgraded the SRM4(with Artemis) with SSRM4; then with 1ton to spare, I install x1 ML in the left arm. Now I have a better preforming Panther, thou a bit pricier perhaps.
But why are there so few suggestions here about increasing its speed as well?
The PNT-10K designers did not face criminal charges. The coordinator simply informed them that they could use the garden.
The Panther might be just a PPC on legs but it's a very *good* PPC on legs. As a long range harasser, for it's weight category it has few equals.
I prefer the 10P myself. Utilizing the RAC 5 allows me to provide good suppression for the scouts
The Panther is one of those mechs showcasing the sillyness of design system. I mean, 7 tons of a 35 ton mech located in one arm? How is that thing able to move without toppling over due to its imbalance?
I got one on Mechwarrior Online specifically to paint it pink and name it Clouseau as a joke.
Its basically just a walking PPC. A fast repositioning PPC that can take a punch. Rare is the battle you want less of those on your side.
In my experience this thing pretty universally ends up fighting medium mechs and gets outmatched. In a very lightweight match it matters, but it’s tactical value diminishes with the concentration of fighting power.
I have used this mech alot and you can do a lot of..."interesting" things with this mech. I do prefer removing the ammo, srm so no chance of ammo explosions and fittings two meduim lasers as the ppc can't really hit at short range.
query, in game, can you make upgrades and changed to mechs all your own? wether it be MW5 or the tabletop? Say i wanted to run a panther, could i change it's armor to stealth armor, given the right era? or would i need to use an "available" variant?
You can upgrade mechs with ease in HBS Battletech (2018) and MW5, or MW4, or MW3, or MW2 even. The community often obsesses with making variants in order to "fix" them even. I will say though, it doesn't line up well in universe. Customizing mechs is extraordinarily expensive. Often the fixes are very gamification based, and don't match up with how companies or governments would want to 'fix' the mechs either, or don't take certain limitations into account.
You're of course, free to customize as you choose, there are rules for doing so and a lot of people get a lot of joy out of it. I myself find the game is balanced on stock designs, and breaks with rampant customization, so the only time we really allow for that with the folks I play with, tends to be if we're running campaigns / RPGs.
PNT-10K model would have made a lot more sense as easy to do field upgrade without Endo Steel. Endo Steel upgrade practically requires a factory, and with such resources involved, there should be no reason not to use double heat sinks. Unless Combine has shortage of them but more plentiful supply of Endo Steel.
Can we have a video on the medium mech , crab?
I'm not a fan of the stock Panther, but by replacing the PPC with 2x M-Lasers & the 4SRM with a 6SMR it becomes a more heat neutral mech that can fight at close range.