3 BIG Standing Mistakes You Need to Avoid
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
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Don't let these 3 common mistakes rob you of energy and efficiency when riding out of the saddle! Whether you’re an older cyclist, have knee issues or it’s not your natural style, there are times when it’s worth the effort.
Discover how to avoid wasted effort and increase your power on the pedals. We're tackling myths and revealing truths about intensity, aerodynamics, and gradient that could revolutionise your ride. - กีฬา
that statement at 5'25" is mot correct; aero drag (and rolling resistance) at a given speed (for example the 16 kph you mentioned) is the same no matter what gradient you ride but the slope downforce changes significant. Therefore it's false to say aero drag becomes the dominant force over 16 kph - that is the case on flat terrain, but on a 10% climb at the same speed 90% (or so...) of your power is needed to overcome gravitation
If you move at 16 kph on 10% gradients or above, you are a beast, and likely out of the saddle anyway
@@pierremaggi8661 at 16 kph on 3% aero drag is also not the dominant force; but anyways - the point was that the statement is false, not wether I'm a beast...
@fiddleonthebike Mate you are spot on, this guy is talking absolute BS about aero gains at 10 mph and under. The margin is so small that a kick of power and standing up completely outperforms a tuck and wind up approach.. Honestly from the way he was blowing on what looked no more that 6% road, this guy is full of it😂😂
@@Tarmaccyclocross Woooooooo🤣😭
It's all about pace when climbing.. Beat tempo like in music, if the gradient is not jumping all.over the place and you find rhythm you can make huge gains
You make three mistakes:
#1 already mentioned, the wind resistance at 16kph misses the fact that you climb. If you can only ride 16kph on the flat, I don't think you need to bother...
#2 The increased energy. Yes, it uses more in total, but less in the legs, and that is what you want to conserve. Therefore the total isn't the focus but reducing the burden on the leg is.
#3 core training is a good idea. I did 20min climbs standing up to build core strength. You can definitely notice the difference.
Shifting down is needed, unless you have a big change in gradient. But if the gradient stays the same I absolutely agree.
Best out of the saddle advice yet! Thank you!
beautiful video
first "fact" is already crap
when your quads are tired going out of the saddle is a no go, gluts and calves works sat down, not up
Very cool and very, very good.
I knew it! The ridiculous bike swaying is a waste of energy. Sway it just enough to maximize mechanical advantage.
Since getting a bike with a power meter I have noticed that I constantly produce more power at the same perceived effort when I go from sitting to standing , and, when I go from standing to sitting …… it makes some sense as you are recruiting and engaging new muscle groups when transitioning from one to the other. For me the same. Holds true when going from high cadence to low cadence pedalling. Just something I’ve noticed
all need proper training and need somebody recording you while you do the ride. because without video we cannot review our own body and cannot know where do we make a wrong posture and then make adjustment.
As with all biological machines, the level of training and skill will increase your efficiency and may not increase your HR or fatigue. If you train in the mountains on long climbs and work on the skill of out-of-saddle (OOSR) riding where the motion of the body is smooth and contained, weight shift is perfected, and tracking is a straight line, no extra effort is required. In the flats OOSR will be at higher speeds and a sprint body position is needed. Hands on the drops, a back parallel to the road, bent elbows, and aero-dynamic loss won't be a factor.
There are four OOSR positions:
Three for climbing and one for the flats:
1) Forward leaning position. For the very tired, forward position, body weight relieved by arms.
2) Centered position. Relaxed upper body, using full advantage of body weight, no acceleration, holding speed.
3) Back position. Rigid upper body, pulling on bars, maximum power for short period, cresting hill, accelerating, 20%+ grades.
4) Flat terrain OOSR. Used as a relief to overworked seated muscle groups. Position as stated above.
You will need the correct gear for each of these four OOSR techniques. #1 uses the same in saddle gear. #2 shift up 15 gear inches. #3 same gear or downshift (if there is a low gear left :) #4 shift up 15 gear inches. All OOSR requires lower than seat cadence, for example: if your seated climbing cadence is 90, then your OOSR cadence will be 60 to 70 when maintaining speed.
avoid swaying the bike too excessively when climbing . . shows Fabio Aru's 'shake the coconut tree' climbing style, gawd bless him!
Does those study compared body weight or watts/kg difference? My intuition is that climbing off the saddle at steeper gradient is more efficient for lighter rider, where heavier rider fares better with seated position
Assuming you talk about long climbs: I used to be a light rider (58kg) and always stayed seated as much as possible because it's always more effective. Especially on a longer steep climb, I think, the nr one most important thing is to conserve energy and you always use more muscles and thus more oxygen when standing. The amount of oxygen you use extra will cost time at the end of the climb. To me, efficiency is key, going as far to use relaxing techniques into training while going up hill so the legs have more oxygen to burn. Just use standing for making a difference, like dropping an other rider.
If the "penalty" for standing for a lighter rider is less? I think it is, the bigger the weight, the more muscle used for any motion..... including cadence... but let's not get into that hehe.
I've never felt comfortable getting out of the saddle on climbs, just felt like more and wasted effort and a false economy. But then I don't generally ride long hard climbs. Every now and then I do get out of the saddle, but more to mix things up, stretch and use different muscles and techniques. I actually do it more often on a trainer, for this reason. I will admit that a big part of this is because when I was younger much of the cycling advice was to pedal at a high cadence at a lower gear, which lent itself to riding in the saddle, so that's the advice that I followed and it seemed to work for me, and I tend to prefer higher cadence. The two times that I will get out of the saddle are during brief sprints (no reason, not racing, just feeling good and feel like it), and when encountering a particularly tough but brief climb that I hadn't expected or prepared myself for, and there may not be time to downshift.
Same exactly
What do you consider high cadence?
The point in terms of power and/or steepness where it becomes better to stand is different for different riders....
Pedaling and gearing techniques are most essential.
In my case, having easy enough gears 😅
But what about strategy relative to terrain? Particularly for long climbs of varying gradient, I try to somewhat minimize getting out of the saddle until I'm relatively near the summit so I can ensure cresting at maximum speed. Cresting at higher speed pays interest on downhill segments!
I think you said we get more power output by standing (don’t know what percentage) while at the same time increasing our drag coefficient by 25% or so. What is the net power difference?
Very clear and interesting. Thank you.
It also depends if it is MTB or road bike. MTB usually involves >15% slopes and loose terrains in wich you must be seated to avoid losing grip. And you must consider to stand up when your nuts are snoring due to the lack of blood by the compression against the saddle. Not only power or aerodynamics.
I bike exclusively on old-school single-track mountain trails. I can aver that being seating to avoid losing rear tire grip is a myth. In fact, staying seated in technical uphill terrain puts the rider at a major disadvantage. To avoid rear wheel spin, the ride must have good core strength/mobility and must be able to maintain a good hip hinge while moving aft/forward relative the bike in response to the needs imposed by the terrain and surface conditions. One more thing: use your dropper.
i'd say when your incline takes the power out of you sitting having difficulty doing 55rpm then you need to stand. Don't even change gear just stay in the rpm55 but off the saddle.
Most cyclists have horribly inefficient pedal strokes and get out of the saddle any time a tiny boost of torque is needed. And they also don’t use their core for climbing.
This notion of ideal or perfect pedal strokes has been thoroughly debunked now. Very old school bro science
Excessive bike sway... here you showed a video clip of pros sprinting. Yes it looks messy but they almost all do it. I have to wonder if you can really define what's excessive. I think being overly rigid is a mistake that will rob more power than swaying the bike. Also note that many top sprinters will steer side to side aggressively as they sprint. This is a separate motion from the tilting action of the bike, but there's been no explanation of why they do it.
As for training your core for standup riding, this is more than muscle fitness, it also includes the balance, positioning and leverage required to ride efficiently out of the saddle. You need all that if you want to be efficient outdoors. Exhibit A are the thousands of indoor trainer jockeys who can generate massive wattage but have zero form climbing and sprinting.
I'm not familiar with how you are using the term "critical power". The use I'm familiar with is referring to a given peak average wattage over a given interval of time. In other words you will have a different critical power for 8 seconds for 30 minutes vs 60 minutes. Would it be more useful to use FTP in the context of this video?
4.2% more power needed out of sadlle... Now I know why need 20W more for out of sadlle COMs.. Thought it was power meter fault.
Biggest benefit of getting out of the saddle is giving a rest to your seat and letting blood flow properly.
自転車特有のハンドリングの揺れに合わせて踏む脚の回復に弱者は必要です．
I rarely get out of the saddle unless I am on my 20 inch BMX! Then 95% of riding is out of the saddle!
Disagree with the intensity thing. During lower intensity, you are nowhere at your threshold of any kind, so it doesn't matter if you use a little bit more o2 or not. It won't affect anything. Science also say 60 or even 50 RPM is the most efficient cadence in terms of oxygen consumption and energy expenditure. But should you ride most of your ride at that cadence? Here is the correct science applied to the wrong place.
So if my knees are bad, I should get out of the saddle as much as possible ?
Nah the idea is to know when it’s absolutely worth it. So saving your knees as much as possible.
I enjoy riding my mountain bike off the saddle way more than I enjoy sitting so much freer and sportier. A year ago, my knee and hip got so painful that I could barely stand to walk from my bed to the bathroom. I did use crutches for a few weeks. I'll spare the details, but the pain was caused by an imbalance between quads and hips. When I finally recovered well enough to start riding again, I prioritized balancing seated and standing pedaling. Since I run flat pedals, I even move my feet forward so that all my leg force into the pedals goes through my heels (while sitting). Hip and knee pain are gone.
Are you a cycling champion?
My hypothesis... tri-athletes ride out of the saddle more easily than pure cyclists. I think their running skills strengthen a different muscle group that benefits standing when on the bike.
Wrong... Not even the best triathlete is able to get close to an average pro cyclist in regard of that and similar type of riding.
@@oli4572 The best triathlete versus an average cyclist, in any sort of riding? You realize that sounds like triggered non-sense. Why such vitriol? There are actual things in the world worth hating. a person who likes to swim and run is not one.
@@user-cx2bk6pm2f I do not care about how it sounds for you and your emotions, I care about facts and your assumption is simply wrong.
@@oli4572 May I suggest you broaden your life? 🤣 I guess a tri-athlete embarrassed you on the road, thus evoking your hatred. If you "do not care" then my work is done, we can only stamp out idiocy in those who recognize it.
@@oli4572 While you're at it, please learn what a "fact" is.
If they did all these studies on 60kg whippets, then it won't apply strictly to us 85kg normal humans. Standing up on your pedals is harder if you are heavier/lower watts per kg
"don't need to train your core"... have you seen the core of some people? 🤣I kid but agree. It seems riding is all the core training you need.
Obvious who doesn’t do core training huh?😅⬆️
Don't know it feels like being out of the saddle is the wrong way to be. Everyone gets out of the saddle to climb but its so uncomfortable and feels horrifically strange. I don't feel like I get more power. I do prefer flat bar bikes with higher seating position though. Can pedal centuries in the mountains that way it feels better than the drops that lean you too far forward to make serious power especially with flat pedals which I prefer. I think the reason I hate standing and drops is because I prefer flat pedals. But while its not the fastest setup honestly its less fatiguing and more secure. Flat bars and flat pedals for life. For me anyway.
You hate standing because you don't train for it. When I discovered how much more fun mountain biking is while standing, I had to consciously train myself to pedal standing more. After a few weeks, standing became my default posture. Now I can ride for more than 20 mountain trail miles without sitting. I don't use click-in pedals, and I don't ride roads, so my experience may not match yours, but if you want to gain comfort/fitness for standing pedaling, you'll need to train for it.