40 years ago, a friend and I came up with the idea of riding 400 km on a racing bike in one day. After about 3 or 4 years, we repeated the tour, and in the meantime I had specifically practiced pedaling in a 360° circle (after reading a racing bike book). After this second tour, my tendons, muscles and joints were much less painful than the first time when I used a "natural" pedaling technique. I stuck with the rounded pedal stroke, but use a little more force when pedaling downwards. Especially uphill I consciously pedal in a rounded circle. I am now over 70 years old and I cycle 10,000 km a year. No back problems!
@@fritzfilter Have you considered that you might just have become fitter? 3-4 years tend to do that. If you get pain from pushing down aka not pedalling in circles, it’s likely a symptom of a different issue that you’ve “worked around” but haven’t solved.
For me, pedalling circles has never been about forcefully pulling on the upstroke, but more about being as smooth as possible without bouncing all over the saddle.
@@ofeykalakar1 About 30 years ago I rode quite a few times with a guy who was primarily a track cyclist. I always rode with a pretty high cadence (92-95 RPM) back then, but this guy schooled me on riding with a really high cadence (115-120 RPM) in a low gear for extended periods of time. It all depends on your technique, your training and if you are even physically capable of doing it. Not all riders can ride smoothly at high cadences.
@@markn4526 I can reach and even exceed 120rpm but only briefly, and am far more comfortable cycling at 80-90rpm for most of my rides, going over 100rpm now and then on the flats and descents. I think that everyone has a sweet spot rpm depending on the terrain, how they're feeling that day, their fitness level and what kind of cycling they're doing, that works best for them. But generally speaking, you don't want your cadence to be below say 60rpm, and preferably higher, unless it's a super steep and long climb. Plus, top competitive cyclists are doing a whole other kind of cycling than most people, are generally in much better shape, have much more developed skills, and are naturally more talented, than most recreational cyclists, so the same rules don't apply.
Years ago, pros such as Greg LeMond said to treat the back stroke like you were scraping mud off of the bottom of your shoes. That pro cyclist advice seems to have worked for many for quite a while.
No. It hasn't. People don't actually do what they think they do. You produce 98% power on the downstroke. Pro riders actually just push down and then relax and push down with the other leg. They just have better positions, so they don't have big deadspots in their stroke and bounce all over the place.
Agreed! I don't think anyone actually pulls up on the upstroke with much success, but you imagine that you are and/or scrapping mud off the bottom of your shoe to develop a smooth pedaling technique until it becomes muscle memory. This is what Greg LeMond advocated. You're not going make a climb up Alpe d'Huez pulling up on the upstroke.
It's confusing advice what this guy says and others. At 6 and 12 o'clock you're producing not much real power (the least). So you scrap the mud off bottom, yeh but the bit everybody is leaving is you let the foot float up (the new advice) and then follow THIS advice at 3 o'clock where maximum power can be applied.
I'm new to riding; but, a degree in Exercise Science. I have ridden fixed and now a geared bike. An important consideration is if you are riding with anaerobic effort or aerobic effort. If your quads or lungs start to burn you will fatigue quickly, you are riding anaerobic. If you have a feeling of little effort and can talk to yourself you are riding aerobically and can ride in that zone for quite a while. With the mechanics of the bike once you are at a cruising speed it's about letting the bike and gears do the work.
@@richardpowell32661) It's a joke. 2) How is it hard to understand? Motorbikes are at least 100 kilos, road bikes ~8. That person is at least 60 years old. A motorbike is too much for all cases. A simple bicycle is too much for most people, even those who are not older. Im young and fit, even i'd like uphills to be easier. These ebike motors only add 2-3 kilos, and they make cycling easier, faster (= more fun?), and more feasible for most people, which all makes more people more likely to do it more. I prefer more people on those than 2-ton cars You dont. Face the future, old man
@@richardpowell3266 I do have a couple of motorcycles. I've been riding both bicycles & motorcycles since I was a kid. Bicycles obviously first. I'm presently 75 yrs old and still do at least 90 miles a week on bicycles. both electric and acoustic. I raced road bicycles in college and rose to Cat B level. When I hit my 60's I started getting thrashed by a younger generation on the road. I know its childish but I'm like the old Bull who sees the red flag when someone passes me. Which lately I have very little chance of catching. Until I broke down and got a second had Trek Domane +. Which spec wise is really a moped disguised as a bike. I've even entertained the possibility of getting rid of the motorcycles because the Domane fulfills my needs as both a motorcycle & a bicycle. It's the speed and acceleration as a bicycle, but conversely the slow speed as compared to a motorcycle. Which makes the Domane attractive as a dual replacement for both a bike and a motorcycle...
As a disabled person riding an ebike with flat pedals, here's what I call my Cruise Control technique that I use once I'm up to speed and on flat or gently rolling terrain. But, this works on long climbs, too. I lift the back leg (not pull up) and let the weight of my front leg, not muscle force, fall down on the pedal, driving the crank naturally. This saves a lot of muscle strength for when you do need to stomp down to make it up steep inclines. Also, I try to control my breathing with 4 strokes in through the nose and 4 stokes out through pursed lips to slow does the exiting air. This calms your heart rate and lowers your blood pressure.
Found a more circular and smooth pressure is best for mountain biking, especially on a loose surface. Slam those pedals, and the tire will lose traction and spin. On the road you have more options.
Adjust your cadence, have a decent position and practice distributing your weight across the front and back wheel. You don't need to pull up on mtb either.
@@YannickOkpara-d5l That won't cut it for extreme climbs. Need a strong smooth pedal stroke and excellent balance or your walking. There is no cadence that is a substitute for smooth pedalling.
@@richardpowell3266 Yeah, you get a smooth pedalling stroke from having a good position with an appropriate weight distribution that allows you to be relaxed, powerful, and in control of the bike. Anyways, if you are grinding up a climb, then easier gears is the solution - not pulling up / pedalling in circles.
It may be anecdotal, but last week I changed from flats pedals to clipless for the first time after 17 years of biking (enduro, XC mainly) for my cardio circuits. My style of pedaling is a strong pushing downward pattern. I go to the gym 4/5 times a week, so my lower back is well trained. I was eager to accentuate this technique of 'swiping' back the leg that I heard everywhere. And for the first time in 17 years, since last week I feel my lower back during my rides. So you may be into something ... But let's not forget that scientific studies only present a model with the last knowledge, not an absolute truth. Some persons can be outsiders and actually have a better performance with this technique without problems.
I'm an old school cyclist and heard all of the "scrape the mud off your shoes" and pedal in circles talk, and I've tried them over the years. And you're absolutely right -- at best they are counter productive.
Most bad pedaling habits arise from biting off way more gear than you can chew. Most riders cannot push a 52t or bigger chainring for long distances unless they're cross chained and causing significant wear to their driveline components.
Meanwhile I'm over here pushing a 52t chainring on my single speed. It has an 18t rear cog which is equivalent to riding in the middle of the cassette. The reason why people have problems pushing a 52t chainring is because of torque production. It takes a decent amount of torque to send a 52t chainring across. I recommend to people to ride single speed or fixed gear up some climbs. Ride in a zig-zag pattern to flatten the gradient a bit and use the entire posterior chain when pedaling. Only having 1 gear teaches us how to make the most out of it.
@@rientsdijkstra4266 It's assuming you're not cross chaining and have a reasonably straight chain-line, so let's say a 52x17 or higher. My ftp cruising gear is a 53x13 at a cadence of 90 for example.
I’m mostly a runner and have focused on activating my hip flexors that helped with lower back pain. It also helps my cycling as utilizing the entire pedal stroke increases my speed considerably compared just smashing downwards. Also after riding for tens of miles I focus on one legged cycling for about 30sec to one minute each leg which makes the remaining trip feel so much easier. I’m no pro though but this is what helped for me.
Years ago I gave a try to using the smaller chainwheel only for about one Week. I used it with smaller rear sprocket so the transmission was almost equal to my comfortable using the big chainwheel. But the long lever almost nullified my downstroke so I had to apply forces differently, I think it was a more sweeping but not much pulling effort. After one week of adaptation I changed to the big chainwheel and I was much faster and it felt much more effective.😊
Agree with this, when I was younger I tried this full stroke power, had often problems with back pain and.... I noticed later, focus on relax my muscles for a large part of the stroke helps a lot in blood flow. Relaxed muscle have better blood flow. equals way less fatigue.
I injured myself on my first long term bike tour after only a week. I was pushing the pedals down only. Augmenting cadence was helpful, but didn't solve it all. I had to continue so, after a couple of rest days, I started trying to be mindful of the fact my feet were going in circle, and not pushing down. I'm not "walking" on the pedals, I'm making them turn. Thinking about my knees going up was also helpful. After a little recovery phase, and with my new technique, I went 2 months with no issue at all in my joints, even with 120km riding days on hilly terrain and 40kg of bike + gear. So yeah, circles.
Pedaling in circles IS VERY efficient. If you can't perform it doesn't mean others can't or won't. Matter of preference, muscles flexibility/endurance, body position on the bike (very important) and how much one rides. Not sustainable for beginners, for sure.
No. Pulling up literally isn't efficient. Even for professionals, 98% of the power is produced during the downstroke. There is no benefit to pulling up except during sprinting. In fact, any gains are lost by interrupting the initiation of the downstroke. As said in the video, it also leads to increased injury, because it enlists muscle that aren't meant to be primary movers for tasks they aren't built for.
Thanks great advice. My first indoor ride app had a focus on circular cadence, which I followed. As I have gotten older I have become more susceptible to back injuries and specifically the SI joint. I was recommended to change from 172.5mm crank to 165mm crank. I think the smaller crank has made things worse rather than better.
I find a benefit to using a different muscle group to produce power while the dominant muscles flush the lactic acid. I view pedaling in circles more of an exercise in not hindering the downstroke with the weight of your opposite leg than creating an equalized power band.
Increases in muscle lactate* correlate with fatigue. It is not the cause of fatigue. So 'flushing' it, which should happen fine on it's own, wouldn't really be a reason for the dominant muscle to perform better. The issue with pedaling in circles to 'not hinder the downstroke' is lifting the pedal still has a metabolic cost and an oxygen demand. The studies presented herein would imply it is better to utilize the finite amount of energy/VO2/cardiac output available in the large muscle groups of the legs as they push downward on the pedal.
When you're climbing pulling actually does give your main muscles some recovery. It's something that a pro taught me when doing really hard climbs. Especially when you're out of the saddle on very steep gradients ans you're in the red.
@@ryoukokonpaku1575 Sorry mate, when it comes to determining what is true in cycling performance, arguments from authority mean almost nothing to me🤷♂
@@TheCerebralCyclist and I don't mind that, just saying that it's not exactly a 100% black and white. Track cyclists also pull on their standing starts and sprints for example, stomping like a piston isn't likely the whole picture, even my efforts on steep climbs where you can't spin your way up actually work better with occasional pulls when standing. Even in studies this is still debated on certain scenarios since you're not always doing steady states in races. Efficiency isn't really a large factor when you just want to put down raw watts quickly when attacking or powering through steep gradients.
@@ryoukokonpaku1575 If you can't maintain at least 70-80 cadence on the steepest pitches you encounter, you need new gears. Pulling up is only useful in maximal efforts. Pulling up in submaximal work leads to overuse injuries.
Learned to pull the pedal up on the upstroke only for sprinting or steep climbing. The other important thing was angling, meaning to lower the heel to overcome the upper deadspot (12 o' clock position) and lower the toes on the bottom deadspot (6 o' clock position). Since I use Zen cleats, which have a larger angle towards the front than regular Look or SPD-SL cleats, I learned to just push down and pull straight up again as they are built to do the angling job for you, so your foot can stay in its natural position.
I personally improved massively by going clipless and smoothing out the forces by consciously concentrating on doing circles. Not quite pulling up but lifting the weight on the up stroke.
This. Is what works for me. And the technique is the same whether I use clipless or not. Climbing a tough hill with a fixed speed bike is so much easier when i can keep that feather light feel and dont task my downstroke with not just moving the whole body and bike forward but having to lift the full weight of my other leg as well. Legs have some weight. I never thought clipless was about pulling the pedal up on the upstroke.
I'll be paying more attention next time i ride but i'm pretty sure this is what i'm doing. Not pulling up at all but definitely going light or neutral with the leg that's currently recycling back to the top.
When I think of it, riding a fixed speed is probably best way to improve the technique. Unlike a freewheel, your own weight and the bike's momentum keeps the pedals spinning, and if you fail to lift your weight off the upstroke, you can actually feel the momentum push the leg and the whole body up.
I've never been a big fan of this perfect pedal circle technique. Common sense should tell you that the human body is well equipped for pushing and not pulling. But many years ago in my cycling development I was coached into this "perfect circle" mentality. Within a few a short years I began to develop hip flexor discomfort on the bike and low back/hip discomfort off the bike. I just more or less wrote it off to "getting older". But after watching this video it's got me thinking a bit more.
You don't cycle in perfect circles. You just think you do. Circular peddling is great for coming up to cadence. Once your optimal cadence is achieved your down stroke dominates but your upstroke is always there waiting to attack when necessary.
I'm like you. As I've got older I get a really sore lower back and hip flexors. Am I pedalling differently from when I was younger? I don't know. I sit more upright, and I think that makes it easier to pull up. When I use the Wattbike in the gym, with its pedal power sensors, I produce a near circular graph of power. If I concentrate on just the downstroke it's peanut shaped - apparently the ideal. So I think I have to try to adopt this style. All those years of roller training, track racing and winters on fixed wheel, wasted.
@@racyrich829 I trained on the track a bit but never race much,. I still have my fixie and just got it back together last winter but have yet to ride it. I find that walking helps my back and hips way more than riding.
Optimal Pedal Technique starts at 3:17! But I recommend to watch the entire video from the beginning to know the pros and cons of different pedalling techniques. Great video! 😀👍
I recently discovered that when using flat pedals, if I lift my leg during the upstroke it takes less pressure on the downstroke to maintain the same speed. My concentration is on lifting the leg on the upstroke enough to remove any negative force or back pressure against my downstroke.
Completely agree regarding efficiency, but I do pull occasionally to rest the pushing muscles. Helps to strengthen the hip flexors and abs. In stand up pedal pulling also helps give respite to the push muscles while the arms push on the bars rather than pull. The idea is to rest muscle groups.
You actually don't strengthen your hip flexors and abs in cycling. You just use them. I know, it's a wierd concept, but using a muscle is not the same as training it. Using them too much just leads to overuse injuries. Don't overthink the role of your muscles. They know which task they are built for. They will only do something wrong, if you have a muscle imbalance or activation issue e.g., hamstrings overriding glutes.
Great explanation. Agree completely. Switched to flat pedals and sticky rubber cycling shoes a while back and my pedaling technique is just as he describes.
clipless is still better because it locks you into the correct position (if cleats are adjusted correctly)... I hate having to readjust my feet when getting back on my flat pedal mountain bike after stops and such.
Here's a secret that 99.99% of cyclists won't even try if I told it to them. It works only with flat pedals. First, you should have the pedal spindles under the arches of your feet. By now that is no secret, but 90% of cyclists refuse to try it. The real secret is when in long, non-technical, seated climbs, move your feet even more forward on the pedals such that the power in pushed through your heels. Think about driving your heels from 12 o'clock to 5 o'clock. This engages the glutes to a greater degree. The glutes are strong and under utilized by riders. Using them makes climbing easier. Using the glutes more also means you'll be giving your quads a rest.
I seriously injured my hip flexor by doing this exact thing, pulling up forcefully on the pedals. It's still an issure after a year and 1/2, but trying to work through it
I do this thing where I put my feet on the pedals and then move the pedals in a circle, alternating power from each leg. Works great! All I've ever needed for the last 5 decades. Great video, though.
There was a coach who said that the better cyclists work less against themselves on the pedal stroke. Personally I thought of this too: the pushing down on the leg is a natural thing the body does at various power levels, all throughout the past of the human species. Running uphill, carrying weights, running, and lifting things up, it is all the same stretching of the leg. Hence it makes sense that this muscle is large and can be trained well, to acomodate different demands of life upon people in the past (and present). The lifting up of the leg however, seems to have no other use than to just pull up that leg. I cannot really see any other events which require a human to pull up their leg with more force than needed to lift its own weight ? The same is true for pushing the foot forward or back. Hence I concluded this, in line with aforementioned coach: the muscles for the upstroke can and should be trained to lift up the leg, but only and exactly to the point of unweighting the pedal, and no more. My experience is that it helps greatly with overall speed, for the same effort. It seems to me that if you come from a background of casual city riding at slow speeds, it possible that you let your leg hang on the upstroke, because that is the most lazy way to keep going (or at least for me). Hence if you try to change this (in my opinion) bad habit of letting your leg hang on the upstroke, you have to train to change it, as did I. I went at it too eagerly of course, and this caused some to be expected muscle pain. It is also a bit hard to change a long standing habit, but the reward seems to be well worth it. This seems to be a pedal method you omitted in your video: not to pull up on the pedal, but to just lift your leg to the point the force on the pedal is about zero. You then put most of the force in the down stroke, and ignore the upper and down angles of the pedal stroke. It makes sense to me, and it works for me at least. What do you think ? It makes little sense to me, to push down on the pedal in an effort to move forward, and then also have to deal with pushing up your other leg as well, even though that other leg has its own muscles to do just that. Maybe everyone already pedals like that ? I said nothing ;o. Have a good day !
Absolutely! And we don't even need clipless pedals to do that. I use exactly the same technique on flat pedals vs clipless. When I get very tired, and just trying to survive, and the muscle between the ears also is tapping out, I sometimes have to remind myself to pedal light by taking weight off the upstroke. It absolutely makes a big difference being able to get up the hill at all vs blowing up half way. Even the pros get hit by it. How often have we seen in those big races someone about to get dropped is "pedaling square". All they have left is the downstroke, and then they get dropped like a sack of potatoes.
It is the pushing down of the other leg that unweights and lifts on the upstroke, not pulling. If it doesn't unweight / lift enough, the person is riding too hard a gear for the force they are pushing through the other side.
Yep. Another reason for using flat pedals instead clipless one. Clipless setup sounds fancy with cool shoes, efficiency, and certain pulling techniques. Yet flat pedal setup is more versatile with ease of instant dismounting and changing foot position on the fly. Also might ends up with better efficiency as this video suggest.
Cadence IS important. Power output in a reduced, just biomech approach would be maximized at a quite low rate around 40. But riding a bike is more as you want to keep up power output over time, explaining the superiority of higher cadence for other reasons (metabolism and muscle fatique basically). It seems more than doubtful that by improving on originally unused segments you HAVE to reduce your downstroke. This might occur when trying a NEW technique which can unsurprisingly not be efficient without adoption of the muscles and their interaction. MIGHT lead to misleading results of studies. Also the torque graph only shows ONE leg which is second best as for the acceleration the bike likes power over time. We should be looking at the whole picture. At least in theory circling shoud add power over time. By generating more power compared to the possible loss of an inactive leg the output over time should increase. So time has to be a factor, an is dependent on the cadence. At low cadence you have to cope with long lasting phases of suboptimal power transmission (leg 2 pedal) . Beside yhe high cadency the use of shorter cranks in pro cycling might reduce the critical upoer segment . Something more is critical transmission to loose surface. High power climaxes will be extreme ineffective by loosing the rear wheel. Gaining a "small" advantage of 15-20 % according to studies mentioned by Dylan Johnson is quite a bit Go for it, if You like to maximize your power over time to the limit. If not, the whole research and discussion is for the bin anyway...
Not really. High cadence was popularised by lance Armstrong as a way to compensate AFTER his cancer recovery. Do you have a physically compromised body after a life illness? No? Then just do whatever cadence you want, even if it’s just 60, if that’s what feels most efficient when riding. Forcing a higher cadence just because it’s what the pros use, is hardly the way to go. Efficiency is the name of the game, not high cadence.
Many cyclists used the high cadency long before LA YOUR FEELINGS are nice, but many studies, also concerning the seat hights show that efficiency often lies somewhere else than feelings would suggest. Most of the people start with about 60 as it IS advantageous at first of course it does make a difference if yoy commute 5k or ride a longer tour in the mountains with maybe other people There you might feel the benefits of a cadence at least above 75. Storming up with 100, though, would need that extra oxygen, which was available because of the use of medication.
I’m an older rider (62), who has always (?) been told, “Pedal Circles.”. I am open to new ideas. But, pulling on the upstroke seems critical to seated climbing. Upstroke power is very helpful to my climbing. What’s your POV regarding climbing? (BTW, 40+ years of cycling with clipless pedals and I’ve never had back, hip or other, non-crash, injuries.)
The research just doesn’t show any actual benefit in terms of performance and shows that you are faster without an upstroke. If it’s comfortable for you and you’re going on fine then keep on going
You can definitely single leg push 100kg but unlikely to hamstring curl 50kg. Such is the muscle density of our legs. A forced upstroke is probably useful to marginally increase cadence by pulling the pedal up in the 6-8 oclock range
Exactly. I've always increased wattage in climbs by pedaling circles, with less lactic acid in the quads. Additionally I've won a bunch of TT's by trying to pedal circles and pulling back. Not to mention pedaling circles or at least focusing on that technique and breathing is a way to zone out what your doing to your body. If you focus on something other than the pain your going through, performance increases via relaxation. Don't focus on the pain, focus on the pedaling.
@@clarkebynum4623 it's my natural pedaling technique so it's likely id test poorly trying something else. I've done hundreds of power tests, I definitely know my max performance
I have been riding road bikes for decades with clipless pedals and on the flats try to clear the pedal on the backstroke rather than forcefully pulling up. It feels odd when I ride a bike with standard pedals as I am coming off the pedal on the back stroke. Regarding LeMond, the other technique he would discuss is, when climbing, to shift further back on the saddle (effectively increasing the distance from the pedals) and pull up, but at a lower cadence. The opposite is when sprinting, to move slightly forward on the saddle, maximize cadence and focus on the downstroke. The ‘shift in the saddle and change in cadence’ technique may negate the findings and conclusions of these studies.
Thank you for your attention to the subject of pedaling technique. I don’t disagree with your theory, but I’d like to see you backing theory with measurements. You describe 360° pedal stroke and graph power output of one leg; I’d find it more illustrative if you were to overlay power output of both legs and compare the effective power output of differing techniques. My experiences over 55 years of racing, touring, and general sport riding are purely subjective; my best results feel like my feet are just following the pedals around the circle, not straining or hammering. There’s a noticeable power peak as my descending foot approaches 90° and continues to 120~135°, while my ascending foot is not pulling, but lightly floating above the pedal from 210~300°, regardless of using toe clips, clipless (my favorite), or riding my flat pedal town bikes. It’s a difficult subject to explore, I’m glad you’ve made the effort to shed some light on the topic. Thanks again, looking forward to more of your content 😁
What really helps is consciously also using the calf muscle by tilting your foot downwards a few degrees during the propulsive phase (and of course upward again in the recovery phase). This takes some of the load of you thigh muscles and spreads the load more evenly.
I think a little pull between 7:30 and 9:00 helps on the hills when it coincides with the power stroke on the other side. Anything over a 5% grade. I also don't see anyone getting rid of their clipless pedals.
Been riding road bikes w/ clipless pedals since 1993....the only time I pull up on a pedal stroke is while sprinting (especially if the cadence drops a little), and I'm not consciously trying to do it. Other than that.....nope. Don't need to pull up to have a smooth pedal stroke either. "Preferred" is what I use for cadence as well, not because someone tells me that 90+ rpms is "the most efficient". For a certain power/effort level, sure....but riding along at 95 rpms in zone 2.....nope (upper 70's/low 80's is my sweet spot for that).
I have been looking to improve my pedaling I have been riding for 40 plus years and have watched lots of videos this technique is by far the best one I’ve tried I was able to get my L 43%/R 57% that’s the closest I’ve ever had I think I will be able to get it almost to a balanced 50/50 using this method
for me pulling habit is happen when muscle for down pedaling in serious condition or in fatigue. often happened when do long climbing or over sprinting the leg automatically try to find subsidiary power from up stroking.
I’m a 65-year-old male and just started cycling again after a few years of not cycling. I’ve been focusing on the upstroke, particularly on moderate grades and recently have getting some pinched nerves in both my legs, and I’m wondering if that’s what was the cause of it. Thank you for this video as I’m gonna stop concentrating on that and focus only on the downstroke and see if that solves my pinched nerve issues.
I totally agree and this is matches my personal fealing. If I try to pedal 360 I get exhausted way faster, similar to pedaling out of the saddle. I only do it when I need an extra push on steeper bits or to max out speed quicker on short efforts. My let's say 90% of the time I pedal using downstrock only which feels natural and works better for me with or without clipless pedals.
Perfect video thank you ! But I've never been able to push on one foot whilst pulling with the other 🤨 so one leg is basically resting during the upstroke and my performance is quite good, at the age of almost 60 I do 150 km per week and take almost every hill no matter how steep it is🙂
I don't use clipless, I prefer to be able to make slight adjustments on my footposition when needed. I still think my cycling is smooth and efficient compared to many other cyclists. A good bikefit is essential. At 58 yrs of age I still keep up with most cyclists half my age so I must be doing something right. I have done and still do all sorts of cycling, Road/gravel biking, mountainbiking and fully packed travelling/camping trips.
Recently I developed pain in my left hip flexor. I was wondering why this was happening. At the same time in recent weeks I was intentionally trying to pull pedals up. Now this video probably explained why this happened 🙂 I'll drop that and see how it goes. Thanks ✌️🙂
nice video, on sprints on my racing bike i focus 100% on getting my knees to my chin, so not stomping on the pedals but in sprints just getting knees up and pulling on the pedals, at least that feeling. It completely boosted my sprints to absurd speeds. For regular mtb I hardly noticed any speed differences between clipless or with clips on a technical course of 1 hour. GCN also did a surprising video about flatpedals vs spd. They were surprised about the result. But something on a video technical note. please please ditch the horrible background music. it's terrible and distracts ;-)
Sprinting is different :) There, you want to pull up to minimize the time between each downstroke. When you pull up in a sprint / surge, you get to push down more often.
I generally agree with this. Of course, you’ll want to vary your pedal stroke based on circumstances, especially if you race. I find some variation makes sense for: 1) times when your fatigued and want to change it up for a short while; 2) steep climbs at low cadence; 3) standing starts (on the track); 4) max efforts at different durations have different requirements - 10 second sprint vs 30 second anaerobic vs 3 minutes VO2 vs 30 minutes at threshold. I recommend experimenting when doing intervals and seeing how technique and cadence relate to power output.
Pulling up counter torque other leg pressing down, I focused not waisting energy with waisted body movement that big gear pushers tend to do.. I used to do strength exercises high resistance on the bike" Used core and arm strength to hold still. My friend Magnus Backstedt used this technique along with low resistance high ram exercises! I would say biggest mistake cyclists will make is ride wrong crank lengths !! Specially when they switch to 175 mtb from road 172 or 170. 170 was my choice on all my bikes ! Track road mtb.. My legs didn't grow over night to ride 175 mtb.
You mentioned some research (at 2:26)... but there is no source mentioned in description, even there is no name of this research or anything. Just strange number as a name of document opened in Safari brouwser at path /user/ ... weird. Could you please let us know some link to this research? Thanks a lot.
Also, subject of article: Effect of Pedaling Technique on Mechanical Effectiveness and Efficiency in Cyclists THOMAS KORFF, LEE M. ROMER, IAN MAYHEW, and JAMES C. MARTIN
I always like to hear about old ideas getting debunked, but a lot depends on your bike's gearing and the terrain. As a serial single speeder, I often hit steep climbs that force me to use every muscle fiber in my body to make it to the top. I have to push down hard with one leg while simultaneously pulling up hard with the other. And the argument that pulling up can cause undue stress on the your lower back muscles and hip flexors, well...isn't stress on muscles what ultimately makes them stronger? Just as strong quads strengthen your knees, don't strong glutes and lower back muscles help support your back?
It unfortunately doesn't work this way. Doing an activity that uses a muscle actually doesn't strengthen the muscle the same as training the muscle. For example, core stability is a key component to cycling, but cycling is a really bad exercise form to improve core stability and strength. So no, you should not view these things as strengthening your lower back and hip flexors. It leads to overuse injuries. The hip flexors and lower back need to be strengthened with specific exercise. Even football players have to do specific exercises for their hip flexor to prevent injury and to improve sprint power.
Claiming that pulling while pedaling is inefficient if the intent is to equalize the pulling and pushing forces during a pedal stroke is a straw man argument, because the intent of pulling isn't to equalize these forces but rather to supplement the obviously much greater pushing force with a much lesser but still helpful pulling force with a leg that otherwise would just be dead weight along for the ride during that part of the stroke. Even if it only adds 10% force then that's still 10% more than would otherwise be contributing to the net force applied to the cranks, and that's a good thing. The real argument against pulling, if it can be proven, is that whatever additional force it adds to the overall stroke, it takes even more away from the pushing force, resulting in a net lower overall force. Or, that it fatigues both legs such that over the course of a given ride less net power has been put out than would be put out by only pushing and not pulling. Has this been shown to be the case in proper testing, and if so is it independent of pedaling technique or dependent on it?
Coincidentally, I've recently encountered some uncomfortable clicking on my left knee. It usually presents at or close to 30 miles. And I notice that , if I redirect my focus from naturally pedaling harder on down strokes to switching emphasis to pedaling harder on the up stroke, it usually clears the discomfort. I do have heavily conditioned hip flexors from doing classic sit-ups over 45 years so affecting them is seemingly a non-issue. (I think)...Anyway, if it persists I'll go see a sports specialist/ortho. Cheers!
There's a very simple way to improve your pedal stroke. Find a climb that's 5 - 10 miles in length and averages 6% - 7% gradient. Then once a week put your bike in the biggest gear you have, say 53/12, and ride up it while remaining seated at all times. I guarantee you that this will force you to pedal in a circle. After that, you can just use your 'preferred' pedal stroke 95% of the time, but you'll be amazed at how much more power you'll be able to generate when you need to close those gaps, or lead out a sprint. It'll be as if you suddenly discovered a whole new source of power. But it's not meant to be used all the time. I've used this technique on climbs that were 12% - 13%, it's very effective when it comes to learning to pedal a complete circle. Oh, and once a week you should do the exact same climb in your smallest gear, say 43/23, with two goals... maintain 80+ rpm throughout the climb, and do it faster in your smallest gear than you did it in your biggest gear... which may sound easy, but I guarantee you it's not. There are a lot of different ways to learn to be a better climber, but doing these two exercises is by far the best.
What a load of bollocks. There's no reason at all to do any of those two exercises. In fact, the first one is incredibly likely to lead to injury. Mate... strength training happens off the bike. Just ride your bike, eh... this is not sound advice much less realistic... who on earth has a 5-10 mile climb in their back yard with a 6-7% gradient? I don't know if you've heard, but Vingegaard won the Tour de France without even training on mountains apart from training camps.
I can't find any comments below regarding slow vs. fast twitch muscle fibers. Most cyclists and runners are likely to have more red, slow-twitch muscle fibers in their lower back and leg biceps, probably including myself. On a long climb my quads quickly go dead and I rely on pulling back and up, with the feeling of my heels pushing against the backs of my shoes on the recovery lower quarter turn. Similarly, in running a famous coach preached that when running competitively your feet should be swiping the ground, exactly the way horses, cats, etc., do. So, style strongly depends on your body mechanics and muscle makeup.
This is really interesting, i will try to concentrate more on the preferred technique. The only thing i have noticed though is that when sprinting i can produce higher more consistent power when actively pulling up. Maybe this sacrifices efficiency for raw power?
The problem with preferred technique as a concept is that it is contradictory. let's say you work on a new technique and you are inefficient while it is new. Let's say it becomes your new technique. So that becomes the new most efficient because it is preferred . But which one of the preferred techniques most efficient? Okay there is a bike fitter in TH-cam land who figures most people who visit him (so the population he witnesses is the serious rider) come in with seat set too high. So if this is the case people are pedalling with a preferred technique, which is many of them, and likely most efficient because it is the preferred. If they lower the saddle.they would likely have to change the pedalling technique and have an even more efficient stroke. So lesson is your current pedalling technique may not be the most efficient.
Followed the concept that the seat is too high and slowly moved I’d down and after a day or two to adapt my power increased. I always worked to be smooth and not rocking in the saddle but it still was a bit too high. I think if you can afford a bike fit you would save a lot of trial and error.
Consistency is important....but so is changing your style on different terrain....in between efforts you can settle into a rhythm that benefits from and maintains your momentum with minimal exertion
I believe you would be extremely interested in the TRISKELION concept invented by Panos Zaraphonitis which mechanically maximizes the propulsive phase. All the best.
Pedal stroke will NEVER be circular! At 12 o’clock, the foot is outside the crank arm length. At 6 o’clock, the foot is “within” the crank arm length. Not a circle!
I still use toe clips and set them loose, so I can't really pull up on the pedals; I only use enough energy on the upstroke to keep that foot from being dead weight. I emphasize the downstroke, while making it a point to use my ankle to point my toes down as I near BDC. I do this to help transition the opposite pedal for the downstroke; the opposite pedal is at about 30 degrees before TDC as I do this, so I can then put my energy into the new downstroke. I repeat this as I pedal, and I strive for smoothness.
I feel this video is misleading: good pedaling technique is not about pulling up, but about not pushing too far down so you basically deliver force against a fixed point (where the pedal is lowest). I feel beginning cyclist push too far down which is why their pedaling doesn’t look smooth.
Pedaling too much down is also why some bounce off their saddle which can lead to saddle sores and quicker fatigue. At least training that smooth stroke using the circle as a guide actually can make you more efficient than stomping since there's no wasted watts on the downstroke.
Most cyclists have too high saddle heights amongst other things. When your saddle is too high, you bottom out your pedal stroke before the back half of the stroke (other leg's downstroke) begins. It's easy to spot, because people either have too agressive of an angle at their ankle, too extended knee or their private parts hurt / go numb - or they bounce all over the place, especially at high cadence, and they prefer low cadence, since they can't pedal a full pedal stroke.
Spot on. You've gotta pound the crap out of the pedals through the downstroke. Hip and knee flexion (pulling back/up) is SO FEEBLE compared to hip and knee extension (pushing) that pulling up is, at best, pointless and, at worst, a waste of energy. Anyone who thinks they get benefit from pedaling in "circles" aren't pushing the pedals properly in the first place. A lot of coaches try to complicate the issue to sell services: no one's gunna pay a "pedaling technique expert" if they simply say "just push the pedals down", so they make up other useless crap to get your money. Having said all that, contrary to the opinion of many, the hammies are involved in the downstroke, because their primary function is hip flexion (touch the hammies to feel them contract when you push down). However, the range of hip flexion when pedaling is limited, so the hamstrings aren't as involved as they are when doing movements such as squatting or deadlifting
I recommend everyone to have a go on a watt bike and look at the graph that it produces as you pedal. Once you’re creating a sausage shape instead of a peanut you’ll truly know you have an efficient pedal stroke!
Good video. My thoughts...you can find studies that prove or disprove anything. You can find studies which prove that the planet Earth is flat! As far as pedaling technique, 30-35 years ago there were numerous studies proving that scaping at the bottom of the pedal stroke and/or pulling up was the secret sauce to pedaling power and efficiency. Just ask Greg LeMond! I think you have to adopt a technique that works for you as an individual as everyone is different. The key is efficiency and smoothness which is often more important than power. Years ago, back when I was learning how to ride competitively, the first thing you had to learn is developing smoothness (soupleese, Fr.) in your pedal stroke. Power comes later.
Souplesse comes from a good bike position not pedalling technique. A good position allows you to just push down with an appropriate cadence, and there will be no deadspots in your stroke, so it doesn't look choppy to those watching you. They will think "Oh, wow, such a round stroke", but in reality it's not round.
@@YannickOkpara-d5l A good position on the bike goes without saying as it's the basis of everything. But you can have the absolutely best position possible on the bike and still not develop souplesse or smoothness which comes from developing a good pedaling technique which involves a proper cadence. Souplesse comes from developing a good pedaling technique and a good pedaling technique comes from having a good position on the bike. Looking at the top old-school professionals, Laurent Fignon and Stephan Roche were well known for their fluid pedaling styles. In contrast, most would agree that Sean Kelly did not have the best position on the bike, nor the smoothest pedaling technique, but it didn't seem to hold him back much. It's like contrasting the pedaling styles of Alejandro Valverde and Chris Froome.
@@markn4526 Still, there is no backing for pulling up. There is just evidence to the contrary, and even that the people we think of as having supple strokes are not doing what we think they are doing
@@YannickOkpara-d5l There is no pulling up! It's just a mental mindset imagining pulling up or scraping the mud off the bottom of your shoe to help you develop a smooth pedaling technique. I believe Greg LeMond even used to word IMAGINE when he described the technique in his book and numerous magazine articles at the time.
@@markn4526 You don't need to imagine anything, though. You just need to push down and then relax the leg. If your position is good, you will have minimal deadspots and a smooth pedalstroke. That there is a technique to pedalling is a myth.
I was an athlete ( tripe jumper ) I use the sweeping method at the bottom of the stroke, only to 7 o clock positon. To me this makes sense as I'm pushing the pedal away ( behind ) at the same time the down stroke is engaging. If you watch an efficient sprinter, they don't stamp down on the track they circle the feet propelling themselves forward.
So many things out there don't make sense, if this was true everyone would be riding oval chainrings yet they don't. I do the sweeping technique with oval chainrings and to me this allows me to climb better because there's no dead zone during the pedal stroke. Doing it well out of the saddle is a whole different ordeal though, I struggle to be efficient at it and that's precisely because I'm predominantly using a downward movement with the weight of my body on the pedals
Unfortunately I didn't hear the option of mixing in some circular pedaling at various times on your ride depending on terrain, muscle fatigue and ride goals. I have one 12% hill in particular where circular pedaling helps me to climb with less fatigue and 1mph faster which when you're 72 is important. So while I agree with many of the main topics the right answer can vary. I also find pulling thru and up helps if I'm trying to focus on strengthening my hamstring. Not every ride of course but the video is too quick to discount any benefit from pulling thru or pulling up. "It depends" is the right answer for me and I suspect others. Another method I use from time to time is pull up every few pedal strokes for a minute or two. I also didn't see any discussion of the advantages/disadvantages of your pedaling technique when out of the saddle.
I like your answer, it depends. Traction is always a concern as well and you must adapt your power stroke and roundness of your pedaling to the terrain. Closing a gap or sprinting will 'depend' as well, lol. Mix up your spin and lower rpm's depending on the situation. There is huge difference between a 1km sprint and a 100km TTT and a 6 hour ride.
I was a spinning instructor in 2008 and there was heavy emphasis on pedaling in circles. It’s a little embarrassing to think about barking the scrapping your shoe command. In the years since I’ve spent some time each season thinking about should refining my stroke but then fall back into regular habits.
I've worked really hard on doing circular pedaling, and the wiping my feet technique. I've been having hip flexor pain and really tight painful hamstrings. I've been getting help from Physical therapy. But this video might have something to it 🤔
Does anyone genuinely pull up... Like really? Maybe when it max acceleration, or on super steep hills, but other than that, pedaling circles is a out looking to engage the down stroke as early as possible, and extend the power phase as long into the down stroke as is practical. The upstroke is ideally running neutral so you are not lifting one leg with your other legs down stroke.
Go to mostly pull up on long hills to give other muscles a break. Also when trying to do a quick acceleration. Mostly short term stuff. Majority is just pedaling that feels smooth and comfortable do not focus on a specific range in the pedal stroke
Pour prolonger la vidéo, il y a une tendance chez certains à recommander le pédalage avec le milieu du pied sur la pédale, plutôt qu'avec l'avant du pied. L'idée est qu'on peut ainsi appliquer une force plus grande dans le prolongement direct de la jambe , sans forcer sur l'articulation de la cheville. C'est un peu comme quand on monte un escalier en posant tout le pied sur la marche. Que pensez vous de cette idée?
I personally don't think this is idea will improve efficiency. The position of force transfer on the foot influences heavily the degree to which the muscles in the lower leg are engaged in the stroke. In an extreme example - if you contact with only your heel, your calf and shin muscles would not be contributing. You want to be engaging a wide range of muscles in your pedal stoke, proportionate to their capacity. This is an oversimplification since cleat position also influences the overall flexibility of the leg-to-pedal linkage system and degree to which power can be applied and effectively unloaded in the bottom and top of the stroke. Try walking on your heels and you'll see what I mean. Cleat position also influences the trajectory of the force vector through the knee joint and as such can lead to injury. I would avoid messing about with extreme cleat positions for this reason.
I've won lots of races elite level and coached many pro teams and GB on track cycling.. Try ride in trainers with without clip in and just press down ! You will need to press higher resistance for pedal traction.. At age 40 I still hit 237rpm ! Have won national medals.. I rearly had any ankle flex .. Riders with with poor shoe set up gets this and it makes their stroke further!
This technique can be proven easily with physics, I mean kinematics and dynamics. When you try to draw a figure about circular motion, the force vector is ALWAYS perpendicular to the radius of the drawn circle. So when you try to exert force to the circle (which is in this case the gear), the direction where you originally pushed, closes an angle with the previously named force vector. The effective force is the force you exerted multiplied by the cosines of the angle, so in the best case it is 0 (cos0°=1), which can be reached at 3 o'clock; and that's why it is useless to push the pedal when it is at 6 o'clock where (cos 90°=0).
@@erlyx3207 How can you have a vector perpendicular to a scalar? The radius is no vector, you can draw it at any angle through a circle, there's no defined direction.
Maybe safer for a rank beginner. Takes a while to get used to clipless and automatically clip out where needed. But to me clipless pedals are an essential safety device. You will never end up crushing the family jewels on the top tube because of your feet losing contact with the pedals. Clipless lets you pedal through pretty sharp turns without scraping the ground. Clipless lets you bunny jump over obstacles with ease.
I think that the one argument from this view is that the pros still use clip less pedals. If only pushing down is the most efficient way there is no reason to be clipped in. I recall when moving from flat pedals to those cages I had more power. Even more when I moved to clipless. I know that when I combine pushing with pulling my watts increases. I do agree that most of a ride the majority of pedaling is pushing down. But for short spurts of acceleration I do both and will change what part of the pedal stroke I focus on when I am cooked on a hill. That short break gives muscles a chance to recover.
Safer only to people who can't master using clipless pedals. It's like saying that trainer wheels are safer on bikes since there's less chance of falling off--if you can't figure out how to cycle! The only people calling clipless pedals unsafe are people who've never used them, and likely the same people who ride in unnecessarily high gears on climbs, because they're "macho".
@@tonyp4536 The main purpose of clipless pedals is to prevent shoes from slipping on the pedals during hard pedaling and is about safety, not power or efficiency.
Also, if you shy away from clipless due to "safety concerns", you better get a step in frame, or socalled lady bike. They are kind of floppy so not great at climbing or descending at great speed, but excellent for riding in town, easy to get on and off, and zero chance of damaging your genitals.
I find this is so dependent on physiology that its difficult to generalise.. I have a huge amount of power in my calves and hamstrings from years of training (cycling, weights, rowing), so my natural stroke is to balance between quads and hams, if i try to disengage my hams then i lose a huge amount of power and efficiency and seated climbs become much, much tougher, the stats from my performance (power, heart rate, speed over the same climbs) and pedal data are proof of this. This may be quite different for people with different physiology but thats exactly my point, not utilising two of my biggest physiological assets makes absolutely zero sense. Never had an injury or back pain related to this either after 35 years of cycling.
If you can actively disengage your hamstrings by not pulling up, then you likely have too high a saddle. The role of your hamstring in cycling is primarily hip extension i.e., pushing down.
The way i think of clips is if you put some into pulling pushing (the main power of my ruding style) is easier some can push for longer! 50/50 your not really gaining except a quick burst of speed
Question for the Preferred technique proponents: I guess you guys never stand then, eh? Here's what a former pro taught me when I was a junior. Say you're racing a long climb and you realize you're going into the red. If you can use different muscle groups -- standing, obviously, but pulling up also works because it involves a different group of muscles -- you can give yourself some recovery. That is, if you've practiced how to do it. Or, just keep pushing down because it's "the most mechanically efficient" and bonk.
Definitely do this on long climbs. I do all the things he said you should not do. I push through the bottom, pull up push over the top etc. When one muscle is cooked I need to give it a break so it can recover. Don't we all stand and sit during a climb for the same reason. Seems to me I can put the most pressure on the pedals at the top half of the downward stroke not the bottom half. I think that is true when standing but sitting I just do not feel the pressure on the pedal at the bottom quarter of the the down cycle.
Pushing down is not the most mechanically efficient, pulling up is. But guess what, you are not a machine. That is also why long cranks are inefficient for a human. You are biomechanical, and it is inefficient for the hip flexor muscle group to perform this action... it's a bit like using only the hamstrings for a hip thrust when it's supposed to work together with the glutes. You don't bonk from just pushing down, you bonk from riding over your effort and using too hard a gear. It's easy to misjudge your effort when out of the saddle, especially without a power meter.
@@tonyp4536 If you want your muscle to have a break, the best thing is to not think about it. Just let it relax in the part of the pedal stroke where it needs to. If it's not enough, you are in too hard a gear, sorry to say. It doesn't matter if you're riding at 150 or 200 or 350 watts. Everyone needs to pick the right gear for the effort, and if they don't have it, they need to go out and buy that gear.
@@YannickOkpara-d5l Two things if I am struggling to make progress up a hill and decided to just relax the muscle that is fatigued I am making half the power I was making when using both legs. If you are on a long hill where you are struggling and you are out of gears that would move you forward that is not going to work. I do everything based on my cadence and bought into keeping cadence high. So on the flats that might work but on a long hill I have never had an issue by pulling back on the pedals or for a few rotations or just alternating what muscle group I use that includes standing for a short time then sitting then pulling back etc. resting a tired muscle for a stroke or 2 is usually enough to go back to a typical pedal style. Not sure where you are from but there are long steep hills in some parts of the country where you just run out of gears.
@@YannickOkpara-d5l I would like to know where you found that pulling up is the most efficient way to pedal. I am no expert on how a human body works but I know that I can push a lot more weight down on those machines you see at a gym and not nearly that much pulling up. I am not a pro cyclist and weight probably close to twice what they weigh so if the hill is short enough or not so steep I try to maintaining as easy and effort as I can by using a lower gear. But at some point my fitness is pushed to the limit. You see pros in the tour that just cannot go with any pace up a long hill. Some have to weave back and forth. On group rides I have been on I see people get off and walk. I have a power reading when riding virtual and will test your statements out when I get on there again. I will also be getting a power meter for my bike and can see how that goes. Out of the saddle is really a last resort because it will tire me out very quickly but I can use more of my weight on the pedals and it is a different motion that again gives other muscles a break if only for a little while. I do see many riders cranking at a very low cadence that I believe is way to hard for me to do. I perfer a faster cadence with less power put on the pedals. I do not need a power meter to tell me when I am pushing to hard for my level of fitness. I think looking at my heart rate confirms what I already know.
It's the downstroke that engages back muscles. The upsteoke actually engages the abs. Want great abs? I speak of experience - former racer and trainer here.
It's new to me that people think about all of these stuff. I just cycle to get from A to B, and hardly think about how I'm pedalling! I just enjoy the views on the road while cycling my way to work. I guess these are usefull stuff for racers.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
40 years ago, a friend and I came up with the idea of riding 400 km on a racing bike in one day. After about 3 or 4 years, we repeated the tour, and in the meantime I had specifically practiced pedaling in a 360° circle (after reading a racing bike book). After this second tour, my tendons, muscles and joints were much less painful than the first time when I used a "natural" pedaling technique. I stuck with the rounded pedal stroke, but use a little more force when pedaling downwards. Especially uphill I consciously pedal in a rounded circle. I am now over 70 years old and I cycle 10,000 km a year. No back problems!
@@fritzfilter Have you considered that you might just have become fitter? 3-4 years tend to do that. If you get pain from pushing down aka not pedalling in circles, it’s likely a symptom of a different issue that you’ve “worked around” but haven’t solved.
For me, pedalling circles has never been about forcefully pulling on the upstroke, but more about being as smooth as possible without bouncing all over the saddle.
Yep!
Bouncing can sometimes mean that your saddle is too low.
@@markn4526in one gear too low
@@ofeykalakar1 About 30 years ago I rode quite a few times with a guy who was primarily a track cyclist. I always rode with a pretty high cadence (92-95 RPM) back then, but this guy schooled me on riding with a really high cadence (115-120 RPM) in a low gear for extended periods of time. It all depends on your technique, your training and if you are even physically capable of doing it. Not all riders can ride smoothly at high cadences.
@@markn4526 I can reach and even exceed 120rpm but only briefly, and am far more comfortable cycling at 80-90rpm for most of my rides, going over 100rpm now and then on the flats and descents. I think that everyone has a sweet spot rpm depending on the terrain, how they're feeling that day, their fitness level and what kind of cycling they're doing, that works best for them. But generally speaking, you don't want your cadence to be below say 60rpm, and preferably higher, unless it's a super steep and long climb.
Plus, top competitive cyclists are doing a whole other kind of cycling than most people, are generally in much better shape, have much more developed skills, and are naturally more talented, than most recreational cyclists, so the same rules don't apply.
Years ago, pros such as Greg LeMond said to treat the back stroke like you were scraping mud off of the bottom of your shoes. That pro cyclist advice seems to have worked for many for quite a while.
No. It hasn't. People don't actually do what they think they do. You produce 98% power on the downstroke. Pro riders actually just push down and then relax and push down with the other leg. They just have better positions, so they don't have big deadspots in their stroke and bounce all over the place.
Agreed! I don't think anyone actually pulls up on the upstroke with much success, but you imagine that you are and/or scrapping mud off the bottom of your shoe to develop a smooth pedaling technique until it becomes muscle memory. This is what Greg LeMond advocated. You're not going make a climb up Alpe d'Huez pulling up on the upstroke.
It's confusing advice what this guy says and others. At 6 and 12 o'clock you're producing not much real power (the least). So you scrap the mud off bottom, yeh but the bit everybody is leaving is you let the foot float up (the new advice) and then follow THIS advice at 3 o'clock where maximum power can be applied.
「泥を地面で拭う」これしかないですね．
股関節屈曲運動を促進して回転に関与しない踏力を軽減させる．
踏み込み時および引き上げ時にハムストリングスマッスルズを巧みに使う．
この走行技術で飽きるほどサイクリングしている74歳の老体より．
I'm new to riding; but, a degree in Exercise Science. I have ridden fixed and now a geared bike. An important consideration is if you are riding with anaerobic effort or aerobic effort. If your quads or lungs start to burn you will fatigue quickly, you are riding anaerobic. If you have a feeling of little effort and can talk to yourself you are riding aerobically and can ride in that zone for quite a while. With the mechanics of the bike once you are at a cruising speed it's about letting the bike and gears do the work.
Pedalling in circles is an essential skill for mountain biking and any time you need to put down a lot of power on a slippery surface.
After 50 yrs. of road riding I've found the ultimate solution for efficient, fast and effortless pedaling. It's a Bosch 350 Watt motor....lol
I don't understand this. Why don't you buy a motorbike? I have bicycles and a motorbike, but don't feel the need to have a hybrid of the two.
@@richardpowell32661) It's a joke. 2) How is it hard to understand? Motorbikes are at least 100 kilos, road bikes ~8. That person is at least 60 years old. A motorbike is too much for all cases. A simple bicycle is too much for most people, even those who are not older.
Im young and fit, even i'd like uphills to be easier.
These ebike motors only add 2-3 kilos, and they make cycling easier, faster (= more fun?), and more feasible for most people, which all makes more people more likely to do it more. I prefer more people on those than 2-ton cars
You dont.
Face the future, old man
@@richardpowell3266
I do have a couple of motorcycles. I've been riding both bicycles & motorcycles since I was a kid. Bicycles obviously first. I'm presently 75 yrs old and still do at least 90 miles a week on bicycles. both electric and acoustic. I raced road bicycles in college and rose to Cat B level.
When I hit my 60's I started getting thrashed by a younger generation on the road. I know its childish but I'm like the old Bull who sees the red flag when someone passes me. Which lately I have very little chance of catching. Until I broke down and got a second had Trek Domane +. Which spec wise is really a moped disguised as a bike. I've even entertained the possibility of getting rid of the motorcycles because the Domane fulfills my needs as both a motorcycle & a bicycle. It's the speed and acceleration as a bicycle, but conversely the slow speed as compared to a motorcycle. Which makes the Domane attractive as a dual replacement for both a bike and a motorcycle...
😭😭
hahaahha🤣
As a disabled person riding an ebike with flat pedals, here's what I call my Cruise Control technique that I use once I'm up to speed and on flat or gently rolling terrain. But, this works on long climbs, too.
I lift the back leg (not pull up) and let the weight of my front leg, not muscle force, fall down on the pedal, driving the crank naturally. This saves a lot of muscle strength for when you do need to stomp down to make it up steep inclines.
Also, I try to control my breathing with 4 strokes in through the nose and 4 stokes out through pursed lips to slow does the exiting air. This calms your heart rate and lowers your blood pressure.
Found a more circular and smooth pressure is best for mountain biking, especially on a loose surface. Slam those pedals, and the tire will lose traction and spin. On the road you have more options.
Adjust your cadence, have a decent position and practice distributing your weight across the front and back wheel. You don't need to pull up on mtb either.
@@YannickOkpara-d5l Especially on MTB, I'd add.
@@YannickOkpara-d5l That won't cut it for extreme climbs. Need a strong smooth pedal stroke and excellent balance or your walking. There is no cadence that is a substitute for smooth pedalling.
@@richardpowell3266 Yeah, you get a smooth pedalling stroke from having a good position with an appropriate weight distribution that allows you to be relaxed, powerful, and in control of the bike.
Anyways, if you are grinding up a climb, then easier gears is the solution - not pulling up / pedalling in circles.
All I have to say about this is for a winter I trained on a fixed gear and it transformed my pedaling technique.
It may be anecdotal, but last week I changed from flats pedals to clipless for the first time after 17 years of biking (enduro, XC mainly) for my cardio circuits. My style of pedaling is a strong pushing downward pattern. I go to the gym 4/5 times a week, so my lower back is well trained.
I was eager to accentuate this technique of 'swiping' back the leg that I heard everywhere.
And for the first time in 17 years, since last week I feel my lower back during my rides.
So you may be into something ...
But let's not forget that scientific studies only present a model with the last knowledge, not an absolute truth. Some persons can be outsiders and actually have a better performance with this technique without problems.
I'm an old school cyclist and heard all of the "scrape the mud off your shoes" and pedal in circles talk, and I've tried them over the years. And you're absolutely right -- at best they are counter productive.
Most bad pedaling habits arise from biting off way more gear than you can chew. Most riders cannot push a 52t or bigger chainring for long distances unless they're cross chained and causing significant wear to their driveline components.
Meanwhile I'm over here pushing a 52t chainring on my single speed.
It has an 18t rear cog which is equivalent to riding in the middle of the cassette.
The reason why people have problems pushing a 52t chainring is because of torque production. It takes a decent amount of torque to send a 52t chainring across.
I recommend to people to ride single speed or fixed gear up some climbs. Ride in a zig-zag pattern to flatten the gradient a bit and use the entire posterior chain when pedaling. Only having 1 gear teaches us how to make the most out of it.
That is a meaningless statement when you are not mentioning the number of teeth on the back.
@@rientsdijkstra4266 It's assuming you're not cross chaining and have a reasonably straight chain-line, so let's say a 52x17 or higher. My ftp cruising gear is a 53x13 at a cadence of 90 for example.
i have front 53/39 and 26/13, 8 speed , and i normally use 53-23 ratio for speeds 20-23km/h, it is 3. gear and chain is almost straight
@@zensenpai6669Thanks which is the best set up for single speed training?
I’m mostly a runner and have focused on activating my hip flexors that helped with lower back pain. It also helps my cycling as utilizing the entire pedal stroke increases my speed considerably compared just smashing downwards. Also after riding for tens of miles I focus on one legged cycling for about 30sec to one minute each leg which makes the remaining trip feel so much easier. I’m no pro though but this is what helped for me.
Years ago I gave a try to using the smaller chainwheel only for about one Week.
I used it with smaller rear sprocket so the transmission was almost equal to my comfortable using the big chainwheel.
But the long lever almost nullified my downstroke so I had to apply forces differently, I think it was a more sweeping but not much pulling effort.
After one week of adaptation I changed to the big chainwheel and I was much faster and it felt much more effective.😊
Agree with this, when I was younger I tried this full stroke power, had often problems with back pain and.... I noticed later, focus on relax my muscles for a large part of the stroke helps a lot in blood flow. Relaxed muscle have better blood flow. equals way less fatigue.
I injured myself on my first long term bike tour after only a week. I was pushing the pedals down only. Augmenting cadence was helpful, but didn't solve it all. I had to continue so, after a couple of rest days, I started trying to be mindful of the fact my feet were going in circle, and not pushing down. I'm not "walking" on the pedals, I'm making them turn. Thinking about my knees going up was also helpful. After a little recovery phase, and with my new technique, I went 2 months with no issue at all in my joints, even with 120km riding days on hilly terrain and 40kg of bike + gear. So yeah, circles.
Pedaling in circles IS VERY efficient. If you can't perform it doesn't mean others can't or won't. Matter of preference, muscles flexibility/endurance, body position on the bike (very important) and how much one rides. Not sustainable for beginners, for sure.
No. Pulling up literally isn't efficient. Even for professionals, 98% of the power is produced during the downstroke. There is no benefit to pulling up except during sprinting. In fact, any gains are lost by interrupting the initiation of the downstroke.
As said in the video, it also leads to increased injury, because it enlists muscle that aren't meant to be primary movers for tasks they aren't built for.
Yeaaah, fuck studies, those are done by idiots, I apologise, beginners, for sure.
Thanks great advice. My first indoor ride app had a focus on circular cadence, which I followed. As I have gotten older I have become more susceptible to back injuries and specifically the SI joint. I was recommended to change from 172.5mm crank to 165mm crank. I think the smaller crank has made things worse rather than better.
I find a benefit to using a different muscle group to produce power while the dominant muscles flush the lactic acid.
I view pedaling in circles more of an exercise in not hindering the downstroke with the weight of your opposite leg than creating an equalized power band.
Increases in muscle lactate* correlate with fatigue. It is not the cause of fatigue. So 'flushing' it, which should happen fine on it's own, wouldn't really be a reason for the dominant muscle to perform better.
The issue with pedaling in circles to 'not hinder the downstroke' is lifting the pedal still has a metabolic cost and an oxygen demand. The studies presented herein would imply it is better to utilize the finite amount of energy/VO2/cardiac output available in the large muscle groups of the legs as they push downward on the pedal.
When you're climbing pulling actually does give your main muscles some recovery. It's something that a pro taught me when doing really hard climbs. Especially when you're out of the saddle on very steep gradients ans you're in the red.
@@ryoukokonpaku1575 Sorry mate, when it comes to determining what is true in cycling performance, arguments from authority mean almost nothing to me🤷♂
@@TheCerebralCyclist and I don't mind that, just saying that it's not exactly a 100% black and white. Track cyclists also pull on their standing starts and sprints for example, stomping like a piston isn't likely the whole picture, even my efforts on steep climbs where you can't spin your way up actually work better with occasional pulls when standing. Even in studies this is still debated on certain scenarios since you're not always doing steady states in races. Efficiency isn't really a large factor when you just want to put down raw watts quickly when attacking or powering through steep gradients.
@@ryoukokonpaku1575 If you can't maintain at least 70-80 cadence on the steepest pitches you encounter, you need new gears. Pulling up is only useful in maximal efforts. Pulling up in submaximal work leads to overuse injuries.
Learned to pull the pedal up on the upstroke only for sprinting or steep climbing. The other important thing was angling, meaning to lower the heel to overcome the upper deadspot (12 o' clock position) and lower the toes on the bottom deadspot (6 o' clock position). Since I use Zen cleats, which have a larger angle towards the front than regular Look or SPD-SL cleats, I learned to just push down and pull straight up again as they are built to do the angling job for you, so your foot can stay in its natural position.
I personally improved massively by going clipless and smoothing out the forces by consciously concentrating on doing circles. Not quite pulling up but lifting the weight on the up stroke.
This. Is what works for me. And the technique is the same whether I use clipless or not. Climbing a tough hill with a fixed speed bike is so much easier when i can keep that feather light feel and dont task my downstroke with not just moving the whole body and bike forward but having to lift the full weight of my other leg as well. Legs have some weight. I never thought clipless was about pulling the pedal up on the upstroke.
I'll be paying more attention next time i ride but i'm pretty sure this is what i'm doing.
Not pulling up at all but definitely going light or neutral with the leg that's currently recycling back to the top.
Just smoothing out into equilibrium
When I think of it, riding a fixed speed is probably best way to improve the technique. Unlike a freewheel, your own weight and the bike's momentum keeps the pedals spinning, and if you fail to lift your weight off the upstroke, you can actually feel the momentum push the leg and the whole body up.
Agree- it's not about pulling as eliminating internal parasitic wastage in the dead leg. Especially when fatigued.
I've never been a big fan of this perfect pedal circle technique. Common sense should tell you that the human body is well equipped for pushing and not pulling. But many years ago in my cycling development I was coached into this "perfect circle" mentality. Within a few a short years I began to develop hip flexor discomfort on the bike and low back/hip discomfort off the bike. I just more or less wrote it off to "getting older". But after watching this video it's got me thinking a bit more.
You don't cycle in perfect circles. You just think you do. Circular peddling is great for coming up to cadence. Once your optimal cadence is achieved your down stroke dominates but your upstroke is always there waiting to attack when necessary.
@@billskolnik4908 Yup - I definitely pull up hard when sprinting on an incline.
Your physical issues could also be due to poor bike fit or some improper technique. Correlation is not causation. Oldest logical fallacy.
I'm like you. As I've got older I get a really sore lower back and hip flexors. Am I pedalling differently from when I was younger? I don't know. I sit more upright, and I think that makes it easier to pull up. When I use the Wattbike in the gym, with its pedal power sensors, I produce a near circular graph of power. If I concentrate on just the downstroke it's peanut shaped - apparently the ideal. So I think I have to try to adopt this style. All those years of roller training, track racing and winters on fixed wheel, wasted.
@@racyrich829 I trained on the track a bit but never race much,. I still have my fixie and just got it back together last winter but have yet to ride it. I find that walking helps my back and hips way more than riding.
Optimal Pedal Technique starts at 3:17! But I recommend to watch the entire video from the beginning to know the pros and cons of different pedalling techniques. Great video! 😀👍
I recently discovered that when using flat pedals, if I lift my leg during the upstroke it takes less pressure on the downstroke to maintain the same speed. My concentration is on lifting the leg on the upstroke enough to remove any negative force or back pressure against my downstroke.
Completely agree regarding efficiency, but I do pull occasionally to rest the pushing muscles. Helps to strengthen the hip flexors and abs. In stand up pedal pulling also helps give respite to the push muscles while the arms push on the bars rather than pull. The idea is to rest muscle groups.
You actually don't strengthen your hip flexors and abs in cycling. You just use them. I know, it's a wierd concept, but using a muscle is not the same as training it. Using them too much just leads to overuse injuries. Don't overthink the role of your muscles. They know which task they are built for. They will only do something wrong, if you have a muscle imbalance or activation issue e.g., hamstrings overriding glutes.
Dang, I been working hard on circles since I had a knee replacement. I’m excited to work on leg drive now! Never too old to learn something new!
Great explanation. Agree completely. Switched to flat pedals and sticky rubber cycling shoes a while back and my pedaling technique is just as he describes.
only if you are not doing competitive cycling.
clipless is still better because it locks you into the correct position (if cleats are adjusted correctly)... I hate having to readjust my feet when getting back on my flat pedal mountain bike after stops and such.
Here's a secret that 99.99% of cyclists won't even try if I told it to them. It works only with flat pedals. First, you should have the pedal spindles under the arches of your feet. By now that is no secret, but 90% of cyclists refuse to try it. The real secret is when in long, non-technical, seated climbs, move your feet even more forward on the pedals such that the power in pushed through your heels. Think about driving your heels from 12 o'clock to 5 o'clock. This engages the glutes to a greater degree. The glutes are strong and under utilized by riders. Using them makes climbing easier. Using the glutes more also means you'll be giving your quads a rest.
I seriously injured my hip flexor by doing this exact thing, pulling up forcefully on the pedals. It's still an issure after a year and 1/2, but trying to work through it
I do this thing where I put my feet on the pedals and then move the pedals in a circle, alternating power from each leg. Works great! All I've ever needed for the last 5 decades. Great video, though.
There was a coach who said that the better cyclists work less against themselves on the pedal stroke. Personally I thought of this too: the pushing down on the leg is a natural thing the body does at various power levels, all throughout the past of the human species. Running uphill, carrying weights, running, and lifting things up, it is all the same stretching of the leg. Hence it makes sense that this muscle is large and can be trained well, to acomodate different demands of life upon people in the past (and present). The lifting up of the leg however, seems to have no other use than to just pull up that leg. I cannot really see any other events which require a human to pull up their leg with more force than needed to lift its own weight ? The same is true for pushing the foot forward or back. Hence I concluded this, in line with aforementioned coach: the muscles for the upstroke can and should be trained to lift up the leg, but only and exactly to the point of unweighting the pedal, and no more.
My experience is that it helps greatly with overall speed, for the same effort. It seems to me that if you come from a background of casual city riding at slow speeds, it possible that you let your leg hang on the upstroke, because that is the most lazy way to keep going (or at least for me). Hence if you try to change this (in my opinion) bad habit of letting your leg hang on the upstroke, you have to train to change it, as did I. I went at it too eagerly of course, and this caused some to be expected muscle pain. It is also a bit hard to change a long standing habit, but the reward seems to be well worth it.
This seems to be a pedal method you omitted in your video: not to pull up on the pedal, but to just lift your leg to the point the force on the pedal is about zero. You then put most of the force in the down stroke, and ignore the upper and down angles of the pedal stroke. It makes sense to me, and it works for me at least. What do you think ? It makes little sense to me, to push down on the pedal in an effort to move forward, and then also have to deal with pushing up your other leg as well, even though that other leg has its own muscles to do just that. Maybe everyone already pedals like that ? I said nothing ;o. Have a good day !
Absolutely! And we don't even need clipless pedals to do that. I use exactly the same technique on flat pedals vs clipless. When I get very tired, and just trying to survive, and the muscle between the ears also is tapping out, I sometimes have to remind myself to pedal light by taking weight off the upstroke. It absolutely makes a big difference being able to get up the hill at all vs blowing up half way. Even the pros get hit by it. How often have we seen in those big races someone about to get dropped is "pedaling square". All they have left is the downstroke, and then they get dropped like a sack of potatoes.
It is the pushing down of the other leg that unweights and lifts on the upstroke, not pulling. If it doesn't unweight / lift enough, the person is riding too hard a gear for the force they are pushing through the other side.
Yep. Another reason for using flat pedals instead clipless one.
Clipless setup sounds fancy with cool shoes, efficiency, and certain pulling techniques. Yet flat pedal setup is more versatile with ease of instant dismounting and changing foot position on the fly. Also might ends up with better efficiency as this video suggest.
Cadence IS important.
Power output in a reduced, just biomech approach would be maximized at a quite low rate around 40.
But riding a bike is more as you want to keep up power output over time, explaining the superiority of higher cadence for other reasons (metabolism and muscle fatique basically).
It seems more than doubtful that by improving on originally unused segments you HAVE to reduce your downstroke.
This might occur when trying a NEW technique which can unsurprisingly not be efficient without adoption of the muscles and their interaction.
MIGHT lead to misleading results of studies.
Also the torque graph only shows ONE leg which is second best as for the acceleration the bike likes power over time. We should be looking at the whole picture.
At least in theory circling shoud add power over time. By generating more power compared to the possible loss of an inactive leg the output over time should increase.
So time has to be a factor, an is dependent on the cadence. At low cadence you have to cope with long lasting phases of suboptimal power transmission (leg 2 pedal) .
Beside yhe high cadency
the use of shorter cranks in pro cycling might reduce the critical upoer segment .
Something more is critical transmission to loose surface. High power climaxes will be extreme ineffective by loosing the rear wheel.
Gaining a "small" advantage of 15-20 % according to studies mentioned by Dylan Johnson is quite a bit
Go for it, if You like to maximize your power over time to the limit.
If not, the whole research and discussion is for the bin anyway...
Not really. High cadence was popularised by lance Armstrong as a way to compensate AFTER his cancer recovery.
Do you have a physically compromised body after a life illness? No? Then just do whatever cadence you want, even if it’s just 60, if that’s what feels most efficient when riding. Forcing a higher cadence just because it’s what the pros use, is hardly the way to go.
Efficiency is the name of the game, not high cadence.
Many cyclists used the high cadency long before LA
YOUR FEELINGS are nice, but many studies, also concerning the seat hights show that efficiency often lies somewhere else than feelings would suggest.
Most of the people start with about 60 as it IS advantageous at first of course it does make a difference if yoy commute 5k or ride a longer tour in the mountains with maybe other people There you might feel the benefits of a cadence at least above 75.
Storming up with 100, though, would need that extra oxygen, which was available because of the use of medication.
I’m an older rider (62), who has always (?) been told, “Pedal Circles.”. I am open to new ideas. But, pulling on the upstroke seems critical to seated climbing. Upstroke power is very helpful to my climbing. What’s your POV regarding climbing? (BTW, 40+ years of cycling with clipless pedals and I’ve never had back, hip or other, non-crash, injuries.)
The research just doesn’t show any actual benefit in terms of performance and shows that you are faster without an upstroke. If it’s comfortable for you and you’re going on fine then keep on going
You can definitely single leg push 100kg but unlikely to hamstring curl 50kg. Such is the muscle density of our legs. A forced upstroke is probably useful to marginally increase cadence by pulling the pedal up in the 6-8 oclock range
Exactly. I've always increased wattage in climbs by pedaling circles, with less lactic acid in the quads. Additionally I've won a bunch of TT's by trying to pedal circles and pulling back. Not to mention pedaling circles or at least focusing on that technique and breathing is a way to zone out what your doing to your body. If you focus on something other than the pain your going through, performance increases via relaxation. Don't focus on the pain, focus on the pedaling.
@@jasongibson3574 that’s great and really impressive. This is a situation where you would have won by more had you actually not pedaled in circles.
@@clarkebynum4623 it's my natural pedaling technique so it's likely id test poorly trying something else. I've done hundreds of power tests, I definitely know my max performance
I have been riding road bikes for decades with clipless pedals and on the flats try to clear the pedal on the backstroke rather than forcefully pulling up. It feels odd when I ride a bike with standard pedals as I am coming off the pedal on the back stroke. Regarding LeMond, the other technique he would discuss is, when climbing, to shift further back on the saddle (effectively increasing the distance from the pedals) and pull up, but at a lower cadence. The opposite is when sprinting, to move slightly forward on the saddle, maximize cadence and focus on the downstroke. The ‘shift in the saddle and change in cadence’ technique may negate the findings and conclusions of these studies.
Thank you for your attention to the subject of pedaling technique. I don’t disagree with your theory, but I’d like to see you backing theory with measurements. You describe 360° pedal stroke and graph power output of one leg; I’d find it more illustrative if you were to overlay power output of both legs and compare the effective power output of differing techniques. My experiences over 55 years of racing, touring, and general sport riding are purely subjective; my best results feel like my feet are just following the pedals around the circle, not straining or hammering. There’s a noticeable power peak as my descending foot approaches 90° and continues to 120~135°, while my ascending foot is not pulling, but lightly floating above the pedal from 210~300°, regardless of using toe clips, clipless (my favorite), or riding my flat pedal town bikes. It’s a difficult subject to explore, I’m glad you’ve made the effort to shed some light on the topic. Thanks again, looking forward to more of your content 😁
What really helps is consciously also using the calf muscle by tilting your foot downwards a few degrees during the propulsive phase (and of course upward again in the recovery phase). This takes some of the load of you thigh muscles and spreads the load more evenly.
Tore my cartilage pulling over the 12 o' Clock position, too much.
I'm a broken man. New knee needed.
Pulling up on the pedals is huge benefit on climbs, dunno what this guy is talking about
I think a little pull between 7:30 and 9:00 helps on the hills when it coincides with the power stroke on the other side. Anything over a 5% grade. I also don't see anyone getting rid of their clipless pedals.
Pulling up may provide benefit but it is very injury prone for psoas muscle an other injuries.
So in simple terms, use your preferred technique ie just ride and if youre feeling good push down harder.
Been riding road bikes w/ clipless pedals since 1993....the only time I pull up on a pedal stroke is while sprinting (especially if the cadence drops a little), and I'm not consciously trying to do it. Other than that.....nope. Don't need to pull up to have a smooth pedal stroke either. "Preferred" is what I use for cadence as well, not because someone tells me that 90+ rpms is "the most efficient". For a certain power/effort level, sure....but riding along at 95 rpms in zone 2.....nope (upper 70's/low 80's is my sweet spot for that).
I have been looking to improve my pedaling I have been riding for 40 plus years and have watched lots of videos this technique is by far the best one I’ve tried I was able to get my L 43%/R 57% that’s the closest I’ve ever had I think I will be able to get it almost to a balanced 50/50 using this method
for me pulling habit is happen when muscle for down pedaling in serious condition or in fatigue. often happened when do long climbing or over sprinting the leg automatically try to find subsidiary power from up stroking.
I’m a 65-year-old male and just started cycling again after a few years of not cycling. I’ve been focusing on the upstroke, particularly on moderate grades and recently have getting some pinched nerves in both my legs, and I’m wondering if that’s what was the cause of it. Thank you for this video as I’m gonna stop concentrating on that and focus only on the downstroke and see if that solves my pinched nerve issues.
I totally agree and this is matches my personal fealing.
If I try to pedal 360 I get exhausted way faster, similar to pedaling out of the saddle.
I only do it when I need an extra push on steeper bits or to max out speed quicker on short efforts. My let's say 90% of the time I pedal using downstrock only which feels natural and works better for me with or without clipless pedals.
Watching the pros on the tour, stage 12 in particular, those guys are rockin' toward the finish line!
Perfect video thank you ! But I've never been able to push on one foot whilst pulling with the other 🤨 so one leg is basically resting during the upstroke and my performance is quite good, at the age of almost 60 I do 150 km per week and take almost every hill no matter how steep it is🙂
You really made me think. I recently did a MTB race and the last couple of miles my lower back was killing me.
I have a lot of trouble with foot pain. I find unloading pressure on the upstroke helps.
I don't use clipless, I prefer to be able to make slight adjustments on my footposition when needed. I still think my cycling is smooth and efficient compared to many other cyclists. A good bikefit is essential.
At 58 yrs of age I still keep up with most cyclists half my age so I must be doing something right. I have done and still do all sorts of cycling, Road/gravel biking, mountainbiking and fully packed travelling/camping trips.
Recently I developed pain in my left hip flexor. I was wondering why this was happening. At the same time in recent weeks I was intentionally trying to pull pedals up. Now this video probably explained why this happened 🙂 I'll drop that and see how it goes. Thanks ✌️🙂
nice video, on sprints on my racing bike i focus 100% on getting my knees to my chin, so not stomping on the pedals but in sprints just getting knees up and pulling on the pedals, at least that feeling. It completely boosted my sprints to absurd speeds. For regular mtb I hardly noticed any speed differences between clipless or with clips on a technical course of 1 hour. GCN also did a surprising video about flatpedals vs spd. They were surprised about the result. But something on a video technical note. please please ditch the horrible background music. it's terrible and distracts ;-)
Sprinting is different :) There, you want to pull up to minimize the time between each downstroke. When you pull up in a sprint / surge, you get to push down more often.
I generally agree with this. Of course, you’ll want to vary your pedal stroke based on circumstances, especially if you race. I find some variation makes sense for: 1) times when your fatigued and want to change it up for a short while; 2) steep climbs at low cadence; 3) standing starts (on the track); 4) max efforts at different durations have different requirements - 10 second sprint vs 30 second anaerobic vs 3 minutes VO2 vs 30 minutes at threshold. I recommend experimenting when doing intervals and seeing how technique and cadence relate to power output.
Pulling up counter torque other leg pressing down, I focused not waisting energy with waisted body movement that big gear pushers tend to do..
I used to do strength exercises high resistance on the bike"
Used core and arm strength to hold still.
My friend Magnus Backstedt used this technique along with low resistance high ram exercises!
I would say biggest mistake cyclists will make is ride wrong crank lengths !!
Specially when they switch to 175 mtb from road 172 or 170.
170 was my choice on all my bikes ! Track road mtb..
My legs didn't grow over night to ride 175 mtb.
You mentioned some research (at 2:26)... but there is no source mentioned in description, even there is no name of this research or anything. Just strange number as a name of document opened in Safari brouwser at path /user/ ... weird. Could you please let us know some link to this research? Thanks a lot.
A quick google scholar search shows it is Korff et al, 2007 Medicine and Science...
Also, subject of article:
Effect of Pedaling Technique on Mechanical
Effectiveness and Efficiency in Cyclists
THOMAS KORFF, LEE M. ROMER, IAN MAYHEW, and JAMES C. MARTIN
I always like to hear about old ideas getting debunked, but a lot depends on your bike's gearing and the terrain. As a serial single speeder, I often hit steep climbs that force me to use every muscle fiber in my body to make it to the top. I have to push down hard with one leg while simultaneously pulling up hard with the other. And the argument that pulling up can cause undue stress on the your lower back muscles and hip flexors, well...isn't stress on muscles what ultimately makes them stronger? Just as strong quads strengthen your knees, don't strong glutes and lower back muscles help support your back?
It unfortunately doesn't work this way. Doing an activity that uses a muscle actually doesn't strengthen the muscle the same as training the muscle. For example, core stability is a key component to cycling, but cycling is a really bad exercise form to improve core stability and strength. So no, you should not view these things as strengthening your lower back and hip flexors. It leads to overuse injuries. The hip flexors and lower back need to be strengthened with specific exercise. Even football players have to do specific exercises for their hip flexor to prevent injury and to improve sprint power.
Thanks for debunking the idea of "pedaling in circles"
Claiming that pulling while pedaling is inefficient if the intent is to equalize the pulling and pushing forces during a pedal stroke is a straw man argument, because the intent of pulling isn't to equalize these forces but rather to supplement the obviously much greater pushing force with a much lesser but still helpful pulling force with a leg that otherwise would just be dead weight along for the ride during that part of the stroke. Even if it only adds 10% force then that's still 10% more than would otherwise be contributing to the net force applied to the cranks, and that's a good thing.
The real argument against pulling, if it can be proven, is that whatever additional force it adds to the overall stroke, it takes even more away from the pushing force, resulting in a net lower overall force. Or, that it fatigues both legs such that over the course of a given ride less net power has been put out than would be put out by only pushing and not pulling. Has this been shown to be the case in proper testing, and if so is it independent of pedaling technique or dependent on it?
Coincidentally, I've recently encountered some uncomfortable clicking on my left knee. It usually presents at or close to 30 miles. And I notice that , if I redirect my focus from naturally pedaling harder on down strokes to switching emphasis to pedaling harder on the up stroke, it usually clears the discomfort. I do have heavily conditioned hip flexors from doing classic sit-ups over 45 years so affecting them is seemingly a non-issue. (I think)...Anyway, if it persists I'll go see a sports specialist/ortho. Cheers!
There's a very simple way to improve your pedal stroke. Find a climb that's 5 - 10 miles in length and averages 6% - 7% gradient. Then once a week put your bike in the biggest gear you have, say 53/12, and ride up it while remaining seated at all times. I guarantee you that this will force you to pedal in a circle. After that, you can just use your 'preferred' pedal stroke 95% of the time, but you'll be amazed at how much more power you'll be able to generate when you need to close those gaps, or lead out a sprint. It'll be as if you suddenly discovered a whole new source of power. But it's not meant to be used all the time. I've used this technique on climbs that were 12% - 13%, it's very effective when it comes to learning to pedal a complete circle.
Oh, and once a week you should do the exact same climb in your smallest gear, say 43/23, with two goals... maintain 80+ rpm throughout the climb, and do it faster in your smallest gear than you did it in your biggest gear... which may sound easy, but I guarantee you it's not. There are a lot of different ways to learn to be a better climber, but doing these two exercises is by far the best.
What a load of bollocks. There's no reason at all to do any of those two exercises. In fact, the first one is incredibly likely to lead to injury. Mate... strength training happens off the bike. Just ride your bike, eh... this is not sound advice much less realistic... who on earth has a 5-10 mile climb in their back yard with a 6-7% gradient? I don't know if you've heard, but Vingegaard won the Tour de France without even training on mountains apart from training camps.
Omg...
i increased my avg speed +10% (and boosted FTP) by concentrating on the up-pedal (focussing on the up-stroke).
I can't find any comments below regarding slow vs. fast twitch muscle fibers. Most cyclists and runners are likely to have more red, slow-twitch muscle fibers in their lower back and leg biceps, probably including myself. On a long climb my quads quickly go dead and I rely on pulling back and up, with the feeling of my heels pushing against the backs of my shoes on the recovery lower quarter turn. Similarly, in running a famous coach preached that when running competitively your feet should be swiping the ground, exactly the way horses, cats, etc., do. So, style strongly depends on your body mechanics and muscle makeup.
Thx for that. I’m a circular pedalist…pedaler? Whatever…you get my drift. So, now i guess I’ve gotta unlearn that habit.
This is really interesting, i will try to concentrate more on the preferred technique. The only thing i have noticed though is that when sprinting i can produce higher more consistent power when actively pulling up. Maybe this sacrifices efficiency for raw power?
The problem with preferred technique as a concept is that it is contradictory. let's say you work on a new technique and you are inefficient while it is new. Let's say it becomes your new technique. So that becomes the new most efficient because it is preferred . But which one of the preferred techniques most efficient? Okay there is a bike fitter in TH-cam land who figures most people who visit him (so the population he witnesses is the serious rider) come in with seat set too high. So if this is the case people are pedalling with a preferred technique, which is many of them, and likely most efficient because it is the preferred. If they lower the saddle.they would likely have to change the pedalling technique and have an even more efficient stroke. So lesson is your current pedalling technique may not be the most efficient.
Followed the concept that the seat is too high and slowly moved I’d down and after a day or two to adapt my power increased. I always worked to be smooth and not rocking in the saddle but it still was a bit too high. I think if you can afford a bike fit you would save a lot of trial and error.
Consistency is important....but so is changing your style on different terrain....in between efforts you can settle into a rhythm that benefits from and maintains your momentum with minimal exertion
I believe you would be extremely interested in the TRISKELION concept invented by Panos Zaraphonitis which mechanically maximizes the propulsive phase. All the best.
Pedal stroke will NEVER be circular! At 12 o’clock, the foot is outside the crank arm length. At 6 o’clock, the foot is “within” the crank arm length. Not a circle!
Pedal stroke is always circular.
@@Mjm614You should look at the crank arm and foot placement at 12 and 6 o’clock. Measure it. Not circular!
I still use toe clips and set them loose, so I can't really pull up on the pedals; I only use enough energy on the upstroke to keep that foot from being dead weight. I emphasize the downstroke, while making it a point to use my ankle to point my toes down as I near BDC. I do this to help transition the opposite pedal for the downstroke; the opposite pedal is at about 30 degrees before TDC as I do this, so I can then put my energy into the new downstroke. I repeat this as I pedal, and I strive for smoothness.
"Daddy what are toe clips?"
@@2wheelsr2wheels39 🤣🤣🤣🤣
And now the differences of pedaling seated vs non-seated. In my mind, I'm using my weight to push the pedal down.
I feel this video is misleading: good pedaling technique is not about pulling up, but about not pushing too far down so you basically deliver force against a fixed point (where the pedal is lowest). I feel beginning cyclist push too far down which is why their pedaling doesn’t look smooth.
Pedaling too much down is also why some bounce off their saddle which can lead to saddle sores and quicker fatigue. At least training that smooth stroke using the circle as a guide actually can make you more efficient than stomping since there's no wasted watts on the downstroke.
Most cyclists have too high saddle heights amongst other things. When your saddle is too high, you bottom out your pedal stroke before the back half of the stroke (other leg's downstroke) begins. It's easy to spot, because people either have too agressive of an angle at their ankle, too extended knee or their private parts hurt / go numb - or they bounce all over the place, especially at high cadence, and they prefer low cadence, since they can't pedal a full pedal stroke.
I JUST STOPED and to think i just had my lumbar region frozen with rods , went back to flat pedals om I love them lol thank yu sir
Spot on. You've gotta pound the crap out of the pedals through the downstroke. Hip and knee flexion (pulling back/up) is SO FEEBLE compared to hip and knee extension (pushing) that pulling up is, at best, pointless and, at worst, a waste of energy. Anyone who thinks they get benefit from pedaling in "circles" aren't pushing the pedals properly in the first place.
A lot of coaches try to complicate the issue to sell services: no one's gunna pay a "pedaling technique expert" if they simply say "just push the pedals down", so they make up other useless crap to get your money.
Having said all that, contrary to the opinion of many, the hammies are involved in the downstroke, because their primary function is hip flexion (touch the hammies to feel them contract when you push down). However, the range of hip flexion when pedaling is limited, so the hamstrings aren't as involved as they are when doing movements such as squatting or deadlifting
I recommend everyone to have a go on a watt bike and look at the graph that it produces as you pedal. Once you’re creating a sausage shape instead of a peanut you’ll truly know you have an efficient pedal stroke!
Great video but that music is rough. It's hard to hear you over it when it's loud.
Good video. My thoughts...you can find studies that prove or disprove anything. You can find studies which prove that the planet Earth is flat! As far as pedaling technique, 30-35 years ago there were numerous studies proving that scaping at the bottom of the pedal stroke and/or pulling up was the secret sauce to pedaling power and efficiency. Just ask Greg LeMond! I think you have to adopt a technique that works for you as an individual as everyone is different. The key is efficiency and smoothness which is often more important than power. Years ago, back when I was learning how to ride competitively, the first thing you had to learn is developing smoothness (soupleese, Fr.) in your pedal stroke. Power comes later.
Souplesse comes from a good bike position not pedalling technique. A good position allows you to just push down with an appropriate cadence, and there will be no deadspots in your stroke, so it doesn't look choppy to those watching you. They will think "Oh, wow, such a round stroke", but in reality it's not round.
@@YannickOkpara-d5l A good position on the bike goes without saying as it's the basis of everything. But you can have the absolutely best position possible on the bike and still not develop souplesse or smoothness which comes from developing a good pedaling technique which involves a proper cadence. Souplesse comes from developing a good pedaling technique and a good pedaling technique comes from having a good position on the bike. Looking at the top old-school professionals, Laurent Fignon and Stephan Roche were well known for their fluid pedaling styles. In contrast, most would agree that Sean Kelly did not have the best position on the bike, nor the smoothest pedaling technique, but it didn't seem to hold him back much. It's like contrasting the pedaling styles of Alejandro Valverde and Chris Froome.
@@markn4526 Still, there is no backing for pulling up. There is just evidence to the contrary, and even that the people we think of as having supple strokes are not doing what we think they are doing
@@YannickOkpara-d5l There is no pulling up! It's just a mental mindset imagining pulling up or scraping the mud off the bottom of your shoe to help you develop a smooth pedaling technique. I believe Greg LeMond even used to word IMAGINE when he described the technique in his book and numerous magazine articles at the time.
@@markn4526 You don't need to imagine anything, though. You just need to push down and then relax the leg. If your position is good, you will have minimal deadspots and a smooth pedalstroke. That there is a technique to pedalling is a myth.
I was an athlete ( tripe jumper ) I use the sweeping method at the bottom of the stroke, only to 7 o clock positon. To me this makes sense as I'm pushing the pedal away ( behind ) at the same time the down stroke is engaging. If you watch an efficient sprinter, they don't stamp down on the track they circle the feet propelling themselves forward.
So many things out there don't make sense, if this was true everyone would be riding oval chainrings yet they don't. I do the sweeping technique with oval chainrings and to me this allows me to climb better because there's no dead zone during the pedal stroke. Doing it well out of the saddle is a whole different ordeal though, I struggle to be efficient at it and that's precisely because I'm predominantly using a downward movement with the weight of my body on the pedals
Unfortunately I didn't hear the option of mixing in some circular pedaling at various times on your ride depending on terrain, muscle fatigue and ride goals. I have one 12% hill in particular where circular pedaling helps me to climb with less fatigue and 1mph faster which when you're 72 is important. So while I agree with many of the main topics the right answer can vary. I also find pulling thru and up helps if I'm trying to focus on strengthening my hamstring. Not every ride of course but the video is too quick to discount any benefit from pulling thru or pulling up. "It depends" is the right answer for me and I suspect others. Another method I use from time to time is pull up every few pedal strokes for a minute or two. I also didn't see any discussion of the advantages/disadvantages of your pedaling technique when out of the saddle.
I like your answer, it depends. Traction is always a concern as well and you must adapt your power stroke and roundness of your pedaling to the terrain. Closing a gap or sprinting will 'depend' as well, lol. Mix up your spin and lower rpm's depending on the situation. There is huge difference between a 1km sprint and a 100km TTT and a 6 hour ride.
I was a spinning instructor in 2008 and there was heavy emphasis on pedaling in circles. It’s a little embarrassing to think about barking the scrapping your shoe command. In the years since I’ve spent some time each season thinking about should refining my stroke but then fall back into regular habits.
I've worked really hard on doing circular pedaling, and the wiping my feet technique. I've been having hip flexor pain and really tight painful hamstrings. I've been getting help from Physical therapy. But this video might have something to it 🤔
Does anyone genuinely pull up... Like really? Maybe when it max acceleration, or on super steep hills, but other than that, pedaling circles is a out looking to engage the down stroke as early as possible, and extend the power phase as long into the down stroke as is practical. The upstroke is ideally running neutral so you are not lifting one leg with your other legs down stroke.
Go to mostly pull up on long hills to give other muscles a break. Also when trying to do a quick acceleration. Mostly short term stuff. Majority is just pedaling that feels smooth and comfortable do not focus on a specific range in the pedal stroke
Hey, do you have any videos about riding out of the saddle, in the same way you break down sprinting and other aspects?
Pour prolonger la vidéo, il y a une tendance chez certains à recommander le pédalage avec le milieu du pied sur la pédale, plutôt qu'avec l'avant du pied.
L'idée est qu'on peut ainsi appliquer une force plus grande dans le prolongement direct de la jambe , sans forcer sur l'articulation de la cheville.
C'est un peu comme quand on monte un escalier en posant tout le pied sur la marche.
Que pensez vous de cette idée?
I personally don't think this is idea will improve efficiency. The position of force transfer on the foot influences heavily the degree to which the muscles in the lower leg are engaged in the stroke. In an extreme example - if you contact with only your heel, your calf and shin muscles would not be contributing. You want to be engaging a wide range of muscles in your pedal stoke, proportionate to their capacity. This is an oversimplification since cleat position also influences the overall flexibility of the leg-to-pedal linkage system and degree to which power can be applied and effectively unloaded in the bottom and top of the stroke. Try walking on your heels and you'll see what I mean. Cleat position also influences the trajectory of the force vector through the knee joint and as such can lead to injury. I would avoid messing about with extreme cleat positions for this reason.
oh man, pulling up is deff the way to go when riding over 80* of max hr level efforts
I've won lots of races elite level and coached many pro teams and GB on track cycling..
Try ride in trainers with without clip in and just press down ! You will need to press higher resistance for pedal traction..
At age 40 I still hit 237rpm !
Have won national medals..
I rearly had any ankle flex ..
Riders with with poor shoe set up gets this and it makes their stroke further!
This technique can be proven easily with physics, I mean kinematics and dynamics. When you try to draw a figure about circular motion, the force vector is ALWAYS perpendicular to the radius of the drawn circle.
So when you try to exert force to the circle (which is in this case the gear), the direction where you originally pushed, closes an angle with the previously named force vector. The effective force is the force you exerted multiplied by the cosines of the angle, so in the best case it is 0 (cos0°=1), which can be reached at 3 o'clock; and that's why it is useless to push the pedal when it is at 6 o'clock where (cos 90°=0).
Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense whatsovever. The radius of a circle is not a vector, it's a scalar and therefore doesn't have a direction.
@@francescosaturnino113 "the force vector is always perpendicular to the radius of the drawn circle" just read the whole comment again
@@erlyx3207 How can you have a vector perpendicular to a scalar? The radius is no vector, you can draw it at any angle through a circle, there's no defined direction.
You only look at a small piece of the picture, neglecting metabolism and the factor time.
So should we just use flat pedals and get away from the clipless pedal. It would definitely be safer
Maybe safer for a rank beginner. Takes a while to get used to clipless and automatically clip out where needed. But to me clipless pedals are an essential safety device. You will never end up crushing the family jewels on the top tube because of your feet losing contact with the pedals. Clipless lets you pedal through pretty sharp turns without scraping the ground. Clipless lets you bunny jump over obstacles with ease.
I think that the one argument from this view is that the pros still use clip less pedals. If only pushing down is the most efficient way there is no reason to be clipped in. I recall when moving from flat pedals to those cages I had more power. Even more when I moved to clipless. I know that when I combine pushing with pulling my watts increases. I do agree that most of a ride the majority of pedaling is pushing down. But for short spurts of acceleration I do both and will change what part of the pedal stroke I focus on when I am cooked on a hill. That short break gives muscles a chance to recover.
Safer only to people who can't master using clipless pedals. It's like saying that trainer wheels are safer on bikes since there's less chance of falling off--if you can't figure out how to cycle! The only people calling clipless pedals unsafe are people who've never used them, and likely the same people who ride in unnecessarily high gears on climbs, because they're "macho".
@@tonyp4536 The main purpose of clipless pedals is to prevent shoes from slipping on the pedals during hard pedaling and is about safety, not power or efficiency.
Also, if you shy away from clipless due to "safety concerns", you better get a step in frame, or socalled lady bike. They are kind of floppy so not great at climbing or descending at great speed, but excellent for riding in town, easy to get on and off, and zero chance of damaging your genitals.
I have tested several times to pedal the whole 360. Every time i get a ca 5 bpm higher Hr for the same watt. My natural stroke is more down and up.
After years of cycling without computers and apps, I can tell you that learning your own body and where you are energy wise, is the best way to start.
I find this is so dependent on physiology that its difficult to generalise..
I have a huge amount of power in my calves and hamstrings from years of training (cycling, weights, rowing), so my natural stroke is to balance between quads and hams, if i try to disengage my hams then i lose a huge amount of power and efficiency and seated climbs become much, much tougher, the stats from my performance (power, heart rate, speed over the same climbs) and pedal data are proof of this.
This may be quite different for people with different physiology but thats exactly my point, not utilising two of my biggest physiological assets makes absolutely zero sense. Never had an injury or back pain related to this either after 35 years of cycling.
If you can actively disengage your hamstrings by not pulling up, then you likely have too high a saddle. The role of your hamstring in cycling is primarily hip extension i.e., pushing down.
what about in sprinting. I don't typically upstoke on long rides or climbs but when I am sprinting I typically upstroke
Preach brother! upstroke is a myth - flat pedals 4 lyfe
The way i think of clips is if you put some into pulling pushing (the main power of my ruding style) is easier some can push for longer! 50/50 your not really gaining except a quick burst of speed
Develop an even circular stroke, practice on rollers
Question for the Preferred technique proponents: I guess you guys never stand then, eh? Here's what a former pro taught me when I was a junior. Say you're racing a long climb and you realize you're going into the red. If you can use different muscle groups -- standing, obviously, but pulling up also works because it involves a different group of muscles -- you can give yourself some recovery. That is, if you've practiced how to do it. Or, just keep pushing down because it's "the most mechanically efficient" and bonk.
Definitely do this on long climbs. I do all the things he said you should not do. I push through the bottom, pull up push over the top etc. When one muscle is cooked I need to give it a break so it can recover. Don't we all stand and sit during a climb for the same reason. Seems to me I can put the most pressure on the pedals at the top half of the downward stroke not the bottom half. I think that is true when standing but sitting I just do not feel the pressure on the pedal at the bottom quarter of the the down cycle.
Pushing down is not the most mechanically efficient, pulling up is. But guess what, you are not a machine. That is also why long cranks are inefficient for a human. You are biomechanical, and it is inefficient for the hip flexor muscle group to perform this action... it's a bit like using only the hamstrings for a hip thrust when it's supposed to work together with the glutes. You don't bonk from just pushing down, you bonk from riding over your effort and using too hard a gear. It's easy to misjudge your effort when out of the saddle, especially without a power meter.
@@tonyp4536 If you want your muscle to have a break, the best thing is to not think about it. Just let it relax in the part of the pedal stroke where it needs to. If it's not enough, you are in too hard a gear, sorry to say. It doesn't matter if you're riding at 150 or 200 or 350 watts. Everyone needs to pick the right gear for the effort, and if they don't have it, they need to go out and buy that gear.
@@YannickOkpara-d5l Two things if I am struggling to make progress up a hill and decided to just relax the muscle that is fatigued I am making half the power I was making when using both legs. If you are on a long hill where you are struggling and you are out of gears that would move you forward that is not going to work. I do everything based on my cadence and bought into keeping cadence high. So on the flats that might work but on a long hill I have never had an issue by pulling back on the pedals or for a few rotations or just alternating what muscle group I use that includes standing for a short time then sitting then pulling back etc. resting a tired muscle for a stroke or 2 is usually enough to go back to a typical pedal style. Not sure where you are from but there are long steep hills in some parts of the country where you just run out of gears.
@@YannickOkpara-d5l I would like to know where you found that pulling up is the most efficient way to pedal. I am no expert on how a human body works but I know that I can push a lot more weight down on those machines you see at a gym and not nearly that much pulling up. I am not a pro cyclist and weight probably close to twice what they weigh so if the hill is short enough or not so steep I try to maintaining as easy and effort as I can by using a lower gear. But at some point my fitness is pushed to the limit. You see pros in the tour that just cannot go with any pace up a long hill. Some have to weave back and forth. On group rides I have been on I see people get off and walk. I have a power reading when riding virtual and will test your statements out when I get on there again. I will also be getting a power meter for my bike and can see how that goes. Out of the saddle is really a last resort because it will tire me out very quickly but I can use more of my weight on the pedals and it is a different motion that again gives other muscles a break if only for a little while. I do see many riders cranking at a very low cadence that I believe is way to hard for me to do. I perfer a faster cadence with less power put on the pedals. I do not need a power meter to tell me when I am pushing to hard for my level of fitness. I think looking at my heart rate confirms what I already know.
Why can't I do both? Push with one leg, and at the same time pull up on the other? On the push the weight of the leg also helps.
It's the downstroke that engages back muscles. The upsteoke actually engages the abs. Want great abs? I speak of experience - former racer and trainer here.
Which abs are involved in pulling the flexing the hips (AKA the upstroke)?
It's new to me that people think about all of these stuff. I just cycle to get from A to B, and hardly think about how I'm pedalling! I just enjoy the views on the road while cycling my way to work. I guess these are usefull stuff for racers.
I only do 360 pedaling when my primary muscles are about to cramp up. Otherwise I use power with gravity.
when my quads are sore and my speed goes down, i start to pull up and it works fine for me
If there is no reason to pull up on the pedals, then there is absolutely no reason to clip in! Period!