Two years ago I bought a short-nosed saddle for my son and liked how it felt on his bike, so I added the. same one on mine. Because I sit with my hips over the wide part of the saddle and am not a nose-sitter anyway, I've set mine to -3 degrees of downward tilt so it's still effectively flat up to a 6% gradient. Anything above that and I'm probably going to be taking spells standing out of the saddle an no longer riding in a purely seated position. Also, when a bike is on the turbo is really the best time to measure things like saddle tilt, assuming your floor is level to start with.
I just DONT care what other cyclists say about my saddle angle. My saddle is pointing down 4 degrees since I ride road bikes. Because it’s the best position for me. And that’s the only thing that counts.
I'm finding the trend of snub nose saddles makes it LOOK like the saddle is tilting down but the part you actually contact, is about level. The tail of the saddles have a sweep and it makes level tougher to find.
normally "flat" is measured across the middle part of the saddle where you actually sit that is supposed to be flat and not across the entire saddle the way the UCI is measuring. Many saddles have rear support going up or nose tip pointing down. If you measure across the entire saddle, it will seem to point "down" even when the middle part is actually "flat". Anyway, "flat" across the middle of the saddle is a good place to start and slightly "down" from there is fine if it works for you
The saddle rails define the saddle tilt. Horizontal rails means flat saddle position. Saddle form defines and/or describes how saddles match the riders bum.
@@antoniosegalada739way too many variables and types of saddles for this to be true. if my saddle rails were level it would be tilted forward to a ridiculous degree and unrideable. There’s no one way to define what is level bc saddles differ so much.
I'm a commuting cyclist in a very windy region. I changed to flat bars many years ago, and found that, whilst generally comfortable, cycling into the wind was awful. So, I added tri bars, which really helped on those windy days, but made setting the saddle angle really tricky. I think I have now got the worst of all worlds - compression of the nether regions when using the tri bars, and numb hands when I'm on the flat bars. A tilting saddle sounds like heaven!
I say have your saddle at the most comfortable angle for you. I tilt mine down slightly, to take pressure off the front area. Too much, and it's then uncomfortable on my butt, so it's a fine balance! I have the same saddle on my gravel and road bikes. As the geometry is different between the bikes, the tilt of the saddle needs to be different, so that the angle feels the same when I'm sitting on each bike. It took a lot of faffing about in my kitchen and then testing around the village about 100 times for me to realise this 😊
Interesting information. Thanks!! I may experiment with tilt just a bit. HOWEVER, I should pass this on. I had been having problems with a sore butt even after a 40 mile ride. I was about to start buying new saddles to find one that would give me a better ride, but then I had the idea to try moving my existing saddle back a bit (maybe 1/4 inch). I noticed a big difference. I slid it back even more, for a total of maybe 3/4 inch. I recently completed a century ride with no problems at all. Maybe you could discuss moving the saddle forward or backward with a fitter. Might not be worth a full episode, but might be good for a GCN Tech question.
When I installed aero bars (2-3 years ago), I started changing the saddle angle after looking at Mark Beaumont's saddle. I have since found the sweet spot for comfort and even when I'm not using the bars, I feel like there is less pressure on my crotch with a slight angle. Definitely worth trying!
Bryan's remote-tilt saddle idea makes more sense than setting the nose downward when, say, 10% of one's overall ride is going up, creating other potentially negative results to the rider's body due to position for that other 90% of the time. My rides routinely have 1,300-1,700 ft of gain over 25-30 miles, mostly in short, steep (up to 15%) climbs. Setting my saddle to compensate for maybe 5 of that 30 miles seems to raise concerns of comfort--my #1 goal for a successful ride; and since it would appear that a comfortable rider is a more efficient rider (see all the evidence of tire pressure-related performance gains), I think I'll take those two, related, factors, and ride a nearly flat saddle setting. Of course, riders more concerned with flat out speed will pooh pooh such frilly thinking; but as I enter my 36th year of riding (and between 250,000-300,000 total miles), I can say my desire for the highest performance is now behind me (cough cough).
More than half of my TIME is going up. My 25 mile rides are 2500-3500ft. Lots of sitting and spinning. Down is much less of my time as I'm going MUCH faster. I need a small downward tilt. Everyone is different.
I have always tried to have the "nose" of the saddle parallel to the ground. since the rear end of the saddle is usually going up a bit more putting the water spirit level from end to tip will mean the nose of the saddle is pointing up. So I'm putting the level just on the front half of the saddle and try to get that part level which means that completely back to front is slightly down.
I'm a fairly new rider and had my saddle pointed down ever so slightly and noticed that I had absolutely no discomfort riding but following advice of other riders I leveled it out. Instantly noticed a difference started having discomfort. So I think pointing a saddle down slightly is beneficial for me at least.
Does the height difference between the saddle and the handlebars have any impact on saddle tilt. Surely a slammed handlebar will require more negative tilt.
Hello. My saddle used to be perfectly level. I tilted it down in the spring and forgot about it, but did develop intense pain on my bottom. It took a few rides before I linked the pain to the saddle position I had changed. I put it back to level and pain was gone. Few weeks later I had a bike fit with a pro, and he decided to tilt the saddle again. Pain came back immediately. I leveled the saddle again and pain is no more. So in my case, titlting the saddle is a no-no
My saddle position changes slowly over the season and of course with different saddles. As a Long Distance /Endurance rider comfort is faster for me. I basically start at level and then make small adjustments if I notice that I am sliding forward or back on the saddle (leather saddles Brooks or Berthoud). I have recently bought a 3D printed saddle and notice that I want to tilt it down slightly (you just don't slid at all on these). As always just my 2 cents
For most riders a subtle increase in power output is wastly uninteresting, compared to their saddle comfort and the avoidance of saddle sores. So your saddle should be adjusted for that and nothing else.
When I was 20 I had a 40kph wind pushing my body back and I had nose down saddle. 50 years later the upper body weight is larger and the wind is less. My saddle is flat these days or I get arm and shoulder fatigue. And the bars are higher.
I have noted this thread with astonishment.... I already dealt with this topic 35 years ago. On my mountain bike, where I ride up much steeper ramps. My saddle was and is always tilted forward. On my mountain bike a bit more than on my road bike. I have developed a sense for it over the years. Do I feel comfortable or not? The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
You can see from the responses that measuring the angle of various saddles , and what "flat" means, on different saddles remains confusing. Flat on a new Arione will be zero degrees, while it might be -6 degrees on a SMP. This was touched upon in the clip, but remains unclear.
Pretty interesting. I swapped saddle not that long ago and noticed that the shape is definitely looking more pointed down, since then I've began to experience a bit of lasting knee pain and the return of tingly hands while I'm out riding. Off to tilt it back up now, fingers crossed.
I found that I have to tilt my saddle back rather than forwards. If it's tilted forwards I get wrist pain. If it's tilted backwards I get numbness in the nether region when going uphill. The wrist pain quickly becomes unbearable and persists even after the ride, so that's a no-go. On the other hand, I have found that I can shift around a bit on the bike to afford a position to relieve the numbenss (if the saddle isn't tilted too far back and the numbness is only slight). Maybe this would decrease my power output going uphill a little bit while going uphill but tbh I couldn't care less if it improves my comfort and if it means I can ride for longer.
Most saddle are concave when you look at lateral profile. I don't know why. Slightly convex saddle work much better for me. Curvature of saddle make a huge difference.
I think you need to start with the correct sadle to support your body with you seat bones and supported first of all not sitting on soft tissue, so right width sadle. The saddle angle should related to the seat bones forward which should be level with the ground and tilting down as required. More tilt should relate to handle bar height and reach as with hip rotation forwards. Triathlons and time trials more commonly wiill require more tilt forward as with any cycling in aero positions. In my opinion.
Been doing it on my bikes.. but it depends on if I have slammed bars or what. My reasoning.. those seats without the front.. and sit bones I have them all pretty much max tilt but on a 70 post that's still pretty much a slight tilt
I live in a hilly area. Constantly up and down. I run -8% or saddle nose .5 inch lower than the rear end and sit towards the rear of the saddle while climbing. When the road flattens out i slide forward, lower my shoulders and tilt my pelvis forward. It helps keep my thighs out of my belly too😊
@@gcn what are long rides? 😂 jk. Everything is fine until the legs run out of steam. Then the upper body gets pretty heavy on the bars. Pinky fingers start to get tingly. Punishment for weak legs!
Unlike the pros, the rest of us also usually have to come *down* the very same slopes that we climb so any climb-favorable tilt should not end up causing instability on the way down.
There’s a relatively new product called a SwitchGrade that retrofits onto your seatpost. Let’s you change saddle angle down for climbing then back to flat for level ground.
People with an SMP will know. Saddle angle is everything! But its not really related to how it works on most saddles. It is all about sitting in that curved cradle. -4.2 degrees on an SMP dynamic as shown in the video. Haha yes there is a difference between 4 and 4.5 degrees nose down.
I have zero idea on my power output and don't care either. I would probably waste more power through incorrect tyre pressure. BUT i do care about comfort. And if i do not tilt my saddle down i have too much pressure in "the area" and get sore. Tilt saddle down, no pressure and the ball bearings and gearstick and surrounds are happy. 😉
10:02 I sit on about -8 to -10. This is mainly for comfort as 90 percent of the time im in the tri bars as the handle bar’s flares up my carpal tunnel. I find this pretty comfortable for even long rides. Any flatter and i end up with a little bruising. 😢. I also find it works really well going up hill as a backstop to put some seated power through the pedals.😊
The fitter recommended -3 to -6 for a saddle with a "kick" or higher rear section. Would this not result in a much steeper effective negative angle? Or by negative angle was he referring to placing the nose higher?
When there is a ‘kick’ or a curve to the saddle we just need to account for this as we know the rider is not sitting on the peak of this rear kick or curve so if we were to set one of those saddle ‘flat’ from the high points then it would likely result in quite a relative nose up position which would likely lead to more central soft tissue pressure and/or more posterior tilt of the pelvis
@@thebikethebody got it. So you are measuring with the level across the entire saddle and not just the flat section from middle to nose. I will try that recommended angle as a starting point. Thanks for the info.
Seems like you got to a sane summary in the end, but the focus on saddle angle relative to gradient rather than relative to the contact point triangle seems weird. It's a lot easier for someone with the average cyclist's upper body to hang from the bars slightly on a climb than to do a constant static push-up on the flats...
Just ignore those roadies snobs that judge others on how you setup your bike. Especially those that are not trying to help newbies and are condescending. Everyone’s physique is different and why copy the pros especially when the tilt angle is restricted by UCI rules? Just stop caring and set it up what feels most comfortable to you and the terrain you ride in most often.
so... instead of a dropper post, we should have a "tilter" saddle? really I guess what we need is a saddle rail that stays level to gravity, rather than the bike. This way, you would adjust your "base saddle level" matched to your body position, but then the saddle would automatically tilt to compensate for the gradient.
They touched on this but it's the most important thing to remember. 99% of riders should not copy the pros. They are freaks of nature and can handle more extreme positions. They produce much more power than the rest of us and this power takes considerably more weight off of the hands, arms, and shoulders. For the rest of us, tilting your saddle forward will just put undo stress on those area and cause problems. We have to stop comparing ourselves with the pros.
We're not sure about freaks of nature but they certainly shouldn't be the bench mark of bike fits 👀 They ride lots more than most of us so will be extremely well adjusted to those long and low fits.
I would like to see this video content discussed by Manon for a woman’s input. Obviously men and women are different in the bottom region. Does this have to be considered when looking at saddle angle?
Great idea and really important - there are lots of unique and specific considerations that need to be made between male and female anatomy - @globalcyclingnetwork lets do it!!
Absolutely ! Showing the raised part at the back being included in the spirit level is not helpful. Also Pogacar's bike was shown on a rear wheel raised bike stand.
Good video, it’s nice that the bike fitter addressed the angle of different saddle shapes, in particular the SMP. I’ve use SMP’s for a long time and through trial and error came to the same conclusions as the bike fitter.
well to earth horizontal - the ground is also tipped up on a hill :). But I agree this makes no sense. But when riding up steep climbs there is a tendency to shift your position on the bike forward and lower toward the bars. This puts you right on the front of the saddle, and it could be better to have your saddle tipped down a little to accommodate.
Most riders lean forward when going up an hill. So it does. Maybe not in the same way as to the ground but I think that most riders do not sit in the same way as on flat ground. Could be similar to walking up a hill. No one walks with a 90° Angle to the ground up a 20% slope. But thats just my opinion and experience, guess each one rides different.
I'm at around 1.5 degrees down myself. Even minute changes of 0.1-0.2 degrees I notice a difference. As of right now this seems to be a happy medium for me. If I tilt lower I slide towards the nose causing perennial pressure, more hand pressure, pain in the traps, knees. Tilt back I sit further back on the saddle. I do get a bit less hand pressure but can't rotate hips so I get lower back pain, chafing from the wider part of the saddle and also more perennial pressure. In either direction I'm slower as well. Though since the tilt changes where I sit on the saddle then maybe changes in saddle height and fore/after to compensate might be worth experimenting more with. Less hand pressure with similar power and no lower back pain would be ideal.
Not in general. Lots of saddles have tilted rails so that with a flat saddle any forward/back adjustment of the saddle gives roughly the correct amount of up/down adjustment too. For example Fizik saddle rails are tilted 3 degrees or so. Of course the rails are good for relative adjustments (e.g tilt down one more degree) but not for general purpose recommendations.
I use a downward angle of 2-3 degrees. A steeper angle seems appropriate for people who spend a lot of time in the drops. I'm not doing that so a slight tilt is better for me.
I've had my saddles tilted 6° downwards for many years (short nose saddles, measured by placing a piece of wood on top of the saddle so it rested front and back), as a result of explicit testing in bikefits on multiple bikes.
My rule of thumb is with modern kick-up saddle shape, the tail of the saddle - the nose of the saddle - the handle bar of the bike should be inline. Or simply the saddle should point to your handle bar. That gives me an overall best.
Why do you always have to say it like it is weird to Talk about soft tissue? In every Video you emphasize it by a different pronunciation, a special facial expression… damn it’s just genitalia.. we’re not in church anymore 😂 when are we going to be able to talk about it like it is a body part like any other one.. in my opinion this behavior is keeping the discussion weird instead of making it more casual. Don’t emphasize it; just make it part of the video/ discussion like any other topic
I've been playing around with saddle angle for a while now. My saddle has a very slight "valley" in the middle where it feels comfortable for me. I had it nose down by about 3-ish degrees and didn't really slide forward, but I did notice some "pressure" in that direction. Just a sort of tugging that was trying to pull my chamois toward the rear. I moved it more toward flat and that issue seems to have gotten less pronounced. This seems like one of those personal preference adjustments for sure. What feels comfortable for one person won't work another. Just my experience...
Most people don't have Pogacar's upper body weight coupled with his power! The more power you put out, the less weight on your hands. If most people tilted their saddle like Pogacars they would quickly have hand/arm/neck/shoulder aches and would be riding round with arms locked out!
This thing with tilting the saddle down, when riding uphill. It doesn't make sense to me. After all, even though the bike will be going up a gradient, your body with respect to the bike does not really change position does it? Or does it? If so, surely not as much as the gradient of the hill?
As someone with lower back pain I can confirm that a small negative tilted saddle helps reduce (my) back pain. We don't sit in an "L" shape on a bike, so there's little need for a horizontally flat saddle. Of course it's all a personal preference, so experiment.
By mistake/accident, my saddle got set up about 3 degrees negative on my roadbike before a 100 mile fondo. Had to do with travelling and bike packaging for shipping. Anyway, I can vouch for me, and I won't be tilting my saddle forward. I couldn't understand how come I kept sitting on the nose with a ton of pressure on the lower region, and this also made the bike feel "short". So for me at least, I'll leave mine 0-degrees level. I ride with a Selle Italia SLR Gel Flow which does have quite a bit of padding and sort of flat, so I slid forward all the time. In disclosure, halfway through we did a roadside hack and got it somewhere about 1 degree b/c by then I knew I had some issue, I just didn't understand it. Ahh what we learn by trial and ERROR.
Last year I was experiencing a lot of pain developing in my right knee, thought it might be a bike fit issue, took the bike in,, as soon as I sat on it the bike fitter saw the problem, my saddle was angle too far down, hence all my weight was moving forward resulting in too much pressure on my knees as I was subconsciously trying to push my weight back up the saddle. So in short, yeas, very important to get yer saddle sorted.
Good data here that makes perfect sense, but it can't be looked at in isolation - everything interacts. I think the saddle angle should be paired with the stem drop. Pros slam their stems giving you better aerodynamics, and the saddle tilting down would relive the strain on the lumbar and sacrum. My lower back is fused from L4 through S1 and I have to tilt my saddle down even on a more upright gravel bike.
HOW does the HAND-pressure vary, with a downward saddle slope?? It matters, yes?! AND...how does Seat Angle for we old-dudes with BIG-bellies! :-))) don' lie...it matters, too!!
only part of a saddle that should be (approximately) flat is the front half (in profile). that usually means the rear has a nice little kick-up which is more supportive and helps with power production 'cause you can sort of push off it. so there.
Not sure we should be angling our saddles JUST because the pros are doing it. They are a different breed with far more flexibility and core strength, as well as a more aggressive position, than most of us regular cyclists who are only pretending to be pro. If it's needed for a proper fit sure but because the pros do it doesn't mean it's right for us mortals.
Excellent piece Conor. You’re a natural broadcaster. Are you going to do similar ‘cause and effect’ for the rest of the bike setup? Bars, cranks, stems? Etc.
Have you tried changing your saddle angle? 📐
nope, if not right angle it feels like im falling off my saddle and ill keep moving my but further back :O
Two years ago I bought a short-nosed saddle for my son and liked how it felt on his bike, so I added the. same one on mine. Because I sit with my hips over the wide part of the saddle and am not a nose-sitter anyway, I've set mine to -3 degrees of downward tilt so it's still effectively flat up to a 6% gradient. Anything above that and I'm probably going to be taking spells standing out of the saddle an no longer riding in a purely seated position. Also, when a bike is on the turbo is really the best time to measure things like saddle tilt, assuming your floor is level to start with.
I’ve been running a -2.5 degree angle for close to 10 years now, it works so I have no desire to change.
Balance of Numbness in the crotch vs. pain in the hands = "some" down tilt of the saddle nose.
Very Scientific😂
I haven't but I will try from now on, thanks.
I just DONT care what other cyclists say about my saddle angle. My saddle is pointing down 4 degrees since I ride road bikes. Because it’s the best position for me. And that’s the only thing that counts.
Hallelujah
I adjust mine for comfort only.
I heard someone say cycling is 80% trend and 20% practicality and performance, they had a point!
I'm finding the trend of snub nose saddles makes it LOOK like the saddle is tilting down but the part you actually contact, is about level. The tail of the saddles have a sweep and it makes level tougher to find.
normally "flat" is measured across the middle part of the saddle where you actually sit that is supposed to be flat and not across the entire saddle the way the UCI is measuring. Many saddles have rear support going up or nose tip pointing down. If you measure across the entire saddle, it will seem to point "down" even when the middle part is actually "flat". Anyway, "flat" across the middle of the saddle is a good place to start and slightly "down" from there is fine if it works for you
The saddle rails define the saddle tilt. Horizontal rails means flat saddle position. Saddle form defines and/or describes how saddles match the riders bum.
@@antoniosegalada739way too many variables and types of saddles for this to be true. if my saddle rails were level it would be tilted forward to a ridiculous degree and unrideable. There’s no one way to define what is level bc saddles differ so much.
I'm a commuting cyclist in a very windy region. I changed to flat bars many years ago, and found that, whilst generally comfortable, cycling into the wind was awful.
So, I added tri bars, which really helped on those windy days, but made setting the saddle angle really tricky. I think I have now got the worst of all worlds - compression of the nether regions when using the tri bars, and numb hands when I'm on the flat bars.
A tilting saddle sounds like heaven!
I say have your saddle at the most comfortable angle for you. I tilt mine down slightly, to take pressure off the front area. Too much, and it's then uncomfortable on my butt, so it's a fine balance! I have the same saddle on my gravel and road bikes. As the geometry is different between the bikes, the tilt of the saddle needs to be different, so that the angle feels the same when I'm sitting on each bike. It took a lot of faffing about in my kitchen and then testing around the village about 100 times for me to realise this 😊
You could solve that faster with a bike fit 😊
@@PhiyackYuh I've had a bike fit.
But only on one of my bikes 🤪
Ive always rode with a 2-4% negative saddle drop never had any issues great content Content Conor.
Interesting information. Thanks!! I may experiment with tilt just a bit. HOWEVER, I should pass this on. I had been having problems with a sore butt even after a 40 mile ride. I was about to start buying new saddles to find one that would give me a better ride, but then I had the idea to try moving my existing saddle back a bit (maybe 1/4 inch). I noticed a big difference. I slid it back even more, for a total of maybe 3/4 inch. I recently completed a century ride with no problems at all.
Maybe you could discuss moving the saddle forward or backward with a fitter. Might not be worth a full episode, but might be good for a GCN Tech question.
When I installed aero bars (2-3 years ago), I started changing the saddle angle after looking at Mark Beaumont's saddle. I have since found the sweet spot for comfort and even when I'm not using the bars, I feel like there is less pressure on my crotch with a slight angle. Definitely worth trying!
Bryan's remote-tilt saddle idea makes more sense than setting the nose downward when, say, 10% of one's overall ride is going up, creating other potentially negative results to the rider's body due to position for that other 90% of the time. My rides routinely have 1,300-1,700 ft of gain over 25-30 miles, mostly in short, steep (up to 15%) climbs. Setting my saddle to compensate for maybe 5 of that 30 miles seems to raise concerns of comfort--my #1 goal for a successful ride; and since it would appear that a comfortable rider is a more efficient rider (see all the evidence of tire pressure-related performance gains), I think I'll take those two, related, factors, and ride a nearly flat saddle setting. Of course, riders more concerned with flat out speed will pooh pooh such frilly thinking; but as I enter my 36th year of riding (and between 250,000-300,000 total miles), I can say my desire for the highest performance is now behind me (cough cough).
More than half of my TIME is going up. My 25 mile rides are 2500-3500ft. Lots of sitting and spinning. Down is much less of my time as I'm going MUCH faster. I need a small downward tilt. Everyone is different.
Was just adjusting my saddle tilt and as if GCN heard my plea for help this video came up 30 mins later 😂
I have always tried to have the "nose" of the saddle parallel to the ground. since the rear end of the saddle is usually going up a bit more putting the water spirit level from end to tip will mean the nose of the saddle is pointing up. So I'm putting the level just on the front half of the saddle and try to get that part level which means that completely back to front is slightly down.
I'm a fairly new rider and had my saddle pointed down ever so slightly and noticed that I had absolutely no discomfort riding but following advice of other riders I leveled it out. Instantly noticed a difference started having discomfort. So I think pointing a saddle down slightly is beneficial for me at least.
Does the height difference between the saddle and the handlebars have any impact on saddle tilt. Surely a slammed handlebar will require more negative tilt.
Hello. My saddle used to be perfectly level. I tilted it down in the spring and forgot about it, but did develop intense pain on my bottom. It took a few rides before I linked the pain to the saddle position I had changed. I put it back to level and pain was gone. Few weeks later I had a bike fit with a pro, and he decided to tilt the saddle again. Pain came back immediately. I leveled the saddle again and pain is no more. So in my case, titlting the saddle is a no-no
Very informative video excellent analysis.
My saddle position changes slowly over the season and of course with different saddles. As a Long Distance /Endurance rider comfort is faster for me. I basically start at level and then make small adjustments if I notice that I am sliding forward or back on the saddle (leather saddles Brooks or Berthoud). I have recently bought a 3D printed saddle and notice that I want to tilt it down slightly (you just don't slid at all on these). As always just my 2 cents
For most riders a subtle increase in power output is wastly uninteresting, compared to their saddle comfort and the avoidance of saddle sores. So your saddle should be adjusted for that and nothing else.
Also, a comfortable saddle (and being comfortable in general) is going to allow you to put our way more power for longer anyway.
but that 1% increase of performance tho👀👀
When I was 20 I had a 40kph wind pushing my body back and I had nose down saddle. 50 years later the upper body weight is larger and the wind is less. My saddle is flat these days or I get arm and shoulder fatigue. And the bars are higher.
I have noted this thread with astonishment....
I already dealt with this topic 35 years ago.
On my mountain bike, where I ride up much steeper ramps.
My saddle was and is always tilted forward.
On my mountain bike a bit more than on my road bike.
I have developed a sense for it over the years.
Do I feel comfortable or not? The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
My bit fit for saddle is -6 degree and short nose saddle. So comfy
Change in small increments only if at all! That was good advice.
You can see from the responses that measuring the angle of various saddles , and what "flat" means, on different saddles remains confusing. Flat on a new Arione will be zero degrees, while it might be -6 degrees on a SMP. This was touched upon in the clip, but remains unclear.
I've always found tilting the saddle more comfy and I've gotten used to it. Now the 0 tilt angle feels weird for me.
Pretty interesting. I swapped saddle not that long ago and noticed that the shape is definitely looking more pointed down, since then I've began to experience a bit of lasting knee pain and the return of tingly hands while I'm out riding. Off to tilt it back up now, fingers crossed.
I found that I have to tilt my saddle back rather than forwards. If it's tilted forwards I get wrist pain. If it's tilted backwards I get numbness in the nether region when going uphill. The wrist pain quickly becomes unbearable and persists even after the ride, so that's a no-go. On the other hand, I have found that I can shift around a bit on the bike to afford a position to relieve the numbenss (if the saddle isn't tilted too far back and the numbness is only slight). Maybe this would decrease my power output going uphill a little bit while going uphill but tbh I couldn't care less if it improves my comfort and if it means I can ride for longer.
Most saddle are concave when you look at lateral profile. I don't know why. Slightly convex saddle work much better for me. Curvature of saddle make a huge difference.
I think you need to start with the correct sadle to support your body with you seat bones and supported first of all not sitting on soft tissue, so right width sadle. The saddle angle should related to the seat bones forward which should be level with the ground and tilting down as required. More tilt should relate to handle bar height and reach as with hip rotation forwards. Triathlons and time trials more commonly wiill require more tilt forward as with any cycling in aero positions. In my opinion.
With a short saddle, the tilt must be done on the first part of the saddle or the entire one ?
Been doing it on my bikes.. but it depends on if I have slammed bars or what.
My reasoning.. those seats without the front.. and sit bones
I have them all pretty much max tilt but on a 70 post that's still pretty much a slight tilt
I noticed pain in my knees when my sattle had an angle of about -0,7 degrees. Need to adjust that now
I live in a hilly area. Constantly up and down. I run -8% or saddle nose .5 inch lower than the rear end and sit towards the rear of the saddle while climbing. When the road flattens out i slide forward, lower my shoulders and tilt my pelvis forward. It helps keep my thighs out of my belly too😊
Sounds like you've found a great system that works for you! How do you get along with long rides?
@@gcn what are long rides? 😂 jk. Everything is fine until the legs run out of steam. Then the upper body gets pretty heavy on the bars. Pinky fingers start to get tingly. Punishment for weak legs!
Good news.... The Aenomaly Switchgrade saddle tilt device is available now.
Unlike the pros, the rest of us also usually have to come *down* the very same slopes that we climb so any climb-favorable tilt should not end up causing instability on the way down.
What saddle is Connor using? Looks like some heavily padded Selle Italia saddle.
There’s a relatively new product called a SwitchGrade that retrofits onto your seatpost. Let’s you change saddle angle down for climbing then back to flat for level ground.
People with an SMP will know. Saddle angle is everything! But its not really related to how it works on most saddles. It is all about sitting in that curved cradle. -4.2 degrees on an SMP dynamic as shown in the video. Haha yes there is a difference between 4 and 4.5 degrees nose down.
How long before we have dynamic saddle tilt adjustment based on climb steepness?
My trek seat post is weird. I can’t even adjust saddle angle much so never thought about it.
I have mine tipped down a bit, wayyyy more comfortable on the crotch and the rear end, it just feels better, especially on long rides.
I have zero idea on my power output and don't care either. I would probably waste more power through incorrect tyre pressure. BUT i do care about comfort. And if i do not tilt my saddle down i have too much pressure in "the area" and get sore. Tilt saddle down, no pressure and the ball bearings and gearstick and surrounds are happy. 😉
10:02 I sit on about -8 to -10. This is mainly for comfort as 90 percent of the time im in the tri bars as the handle bar’s flares up my carpal tunnel. I find this pretty comfortable for even long rides. Any flatter and i end up with a little bruising. 😢. I also find it works really well going up hill as a backstop to put some seated power through the pedals.😊
The fitter recommended -3 to -6 for a saddle with a "kick" or higher rear section. Would this not result in a much steeper effective negative angle? Or by negative angle was he referring to placing the nose higher?
When there is a ‘kick’ or a curve to the saddle we just need to account for this as we know the rider is not sitting on the peak of this rear kick or curve so if we were to set one of those saddle ‘flat’ from the high points then it would likely result in quite a relative nose up position which would likely lead to more central soft tissue pressure and/or more posterior tilt of the pelvis
@@thebikethebody got it. So you are measuring with the level across the entire saddle and not just the flat section from middle to nose. I will try that recommended angle as a starting point. Thanks for the info.
@@matthew.tamasco correct, let me know how you go and give me a shout if you need any further guidance 👍
I prefer a slight upward angle
Well interesting. There are already dropper seat posts, why not trigger controlled saddle tilt? Dropper posts. Dipper saddles?
Well done Connor, it's a goodun. 👍
Thanks a lot!
TP saddle tilted downward? Could it be caused by the bike rack lifting the rear wheel up???
I always put mine a little bit up on my hardtail mtb because of fork sag.
No! That broke my heart! Cool kid club😪
The perfect angle is the one that doesn’t hurt.
Hasnt somebody thought of a saddle (or rather post) that can be easily tilt adjusted during the ride for uphill and level riding?!
-7 to -9 degrees for me as i have long legs and large drop to bars and try to ride aero as much as possible
Seems like you got to a sane summary in the end, but the focus on saddle angle relative to gradient rather than relative to the contact point triangle seems weird. It's a lot easier for someone with the average cyclist's upper body to hang from the bars slightly on a climb than to do a constant static push-up on the flats...
I... usually ride with manufacturer default.
Just ignore those roadies snobs that judge others on how you setup your bike. Especially those that are not trying to help newbies and are condescending. Everyone’s physique is different and why copy the pros especially when the tilt angle is restricted by UCI rules? Just stop caring and set it up what feels most comfortable to you and the terrain you ride in most often.
so... instead of a dropper post, we should have a "tilter" saddle?
really I guess what we need is a saddle rail that stays level to gravity, rather than the bike. This way, you would adjust your "base saddle level" matched to your body position, but then the saddle would automatically tilt to compensate for the gradient.
The slightly positive angle is the most ascetically pleasing, so just ride the uphills out of the saddle ; -)
Adjust 2 mm each time. Ride few times and adjust as needed.
is the saddle expert reporting from the international space station?
The proriders have higher saddle tha handlebar, maybe that is a reason why it makes sense? I too have the seat higher, but not much.
This idea certainly only works for those extreme angles.
👌
Your reviewers need to move to the new 750D wheels -- these bikes are REALLY out of proportion for riders that tall.
I just don't see how only your pelvis moves when the whole bike is at the same angle when going up hill
Exactly what I was thinking. I guess you do lean into the climb?
Perhaps, but not for long periods@@b2theb
Some people do a lot of climbing.
Don t forget Newton third law action reaction
That saddle angle, is NOT flat.
Why is this being hosted by a guy that doesn’t ride a flat saddle and is showing it on uneven ground?
The idea of detecting a 1 percent effect size with an n of 19 is absurd. Exercise science is completely broken. Please, a stats course, anyone.
Bla bla bla, look at the older riders, all have saddles tilted up, look at Pantani 1995 tour,and still the fastest time ever
How small is this bike? It looks like a circus bike in comparison to the presenter!
Just know that setting it vertical is quite uncomfortable.
If you feel discomfort, try applying more chamois cream or switch to a narrower saddle.
If it's vertical, you have to slot it in.
You mean +90°?
@@b2thebyes 90° is vertical
@@adamc.2341 that's very steep, it might cause bot bot troubles
They touched on this but it's the most important thing to remember. 99% of riders should not copy the pros. They are freaks of nature and can handle more extreme positions. They produce much more power than the rest of us and this power takes considerably more weight off of the hands, arms, and shoulders. For the rest of us, tilting your saddle forward will just put undo stress on those area and cause problems. We have to stop comparing ourselves with the pros.
We're not sure about freaks of nature but they certainly shouldn't be the bench mark of bike fits 👀 They ride lots more than most of us so will be extremely well adjusted to those long and low fits.
As someone who has a 10° angle saddle, I'm definitely not a freak of nature.
It's not that bad if you're short tho
@@gcn "Freaks of nature" was said lovingly and jealously.
@@2ball434 I'm glad it's working for you but I'm willing to bet you're also an outlier. But I'm happy to be wrong as well.
100%
I would like to see this video content discussed by Manon for a woman’s input.
Obviously men and women are different in the bottom region. Does this have to be considered when looking at saddle angle?
Great idea and really important - there are lots of unique and specific considerations that need to be made between male and female anatomy - @globalcyclingnetwork lets do it!!
Don’t measure the back of the saddle! Measure only the part that you are sitting on and forward.
measure for reference, but adjust your fit by feel
Absolutely ! Showing the raised part at the back being included in the spirit level is not helpful. Also Pogacar's bike was shown on a rear wheel raised bike stand.
Good video, it’s nice that the bike fitter addressed the angle of different saddle shapes, in particular the SMP.
I’ve use SMP’s for a long time and through trial and error came to the same conclusions as the bike fitter.
Cats or dogs? Who win?
Riding up hill changes the saddle angle. To the ground yes. But to your position on the bike? No.
well to earth horizontal - the ground is also tipped up on a hill :). But I agree this makes no sense. But when riding up steep climbs there is a tendency to shift your position on the bike forward and lower toward the bars. This puts you right on the front of the saddle, and it could be better to have your saddle tipped down a little to accommodate.
Most riders lean forward when going up an hill. So it does. Maybe not in the same way as to the ground but I think that most riders do not sit in the same way as on flat ground.
Could be similar to walking up a hill. No one walks with a 90° Angle to the ground up a 20% slope.
But thats just my opinion and experience, guess each one rides different.
But remember, gravity is always straight down. So the angle of force on the saddle will change slightly...
I'm at around 1.5 degrees down myself. Even minute changes of 0.1-0.2 degrees I notice a difference. As of right now this seems to be a happy medium for me. If I tilt lower I slide towards the nose causing perennial pressure, more hand pressure, pain in the traps, knees. Tilt back I sit further back on the saddle. I do get a bit less hand pressure but can't rotate hips so I get lower back pain, chafing from the wider part of the saddle and also more perennial pressure. In either direction I'm slower as well. Though since the tilt changes where I sit on the saddle then maybe changes in saddle height and fore/after to compensate might be worth experimenting more with. Less hand pressure with similar power and no lower back pain would be ideal.
The saddle settings don't matter that much.. as long as they are UCI illegal 😁
What if you operate outside the UCI 👀 The UCI has no jurisdiction here
@@gcn 👍
Would it make sense to use the saddle rails as a point or reference to determine the angle, especially with saddles like the SMP?
Not in general. Lots of saddles have tilted rails so that with a flat saddle any forward/back adjustment of the saddle gives roughly the correct amount of up/down adjustment too. For example Fizik saddle rails are tilted 3 degrees or so. Of course the rails are good for relative adjustments (e.g tilt down one more degree) but not for general purpose recommendations.
I use a downward angle of 2-3 degrees. A steeper angle seems appropriate for people who spend a lot of time in the drops. I'm not doing that so a slight tilt is better for me.
just an idea, if there are downhill dropper posts in mtb, why not a climbing dropper angle saddle?
edit (ok pro talked about it)
I've had my saddles tilted 6° downwards for many years (short nose saddles, measured by placing a piece of wood on top of the saddle so it rested front and back), as a result of explicit testing in bikefits on multiple bikes.
My rule of thumb is with modern kick-up saddle shape, the tail of the saddle - the nose of the saddle - the handle bar of the bike should be inline. Or simply the saddle should point to your handle bar. That gives me an overall best.
That has always worked for me well. Too high and the taint hurts+goes numb. Too low and you just fight it by pushing against the bars.
It is an old misinformation to just keep it level. Depends on the saddle always and your body.
Why do you always have to say it like it is weird to Talk about soft tissue? In every Video you emphasize it by a different pronunciation, a special facial expression… damn it’s just genitalia.. we’re not in church anymore 😂
when are we going to be able to talk about it like it is a body part like any other one..
in my opinion this behavior is keeping the discussion weird instead of making it more casual. Don’t emphasize it; just make it part of the video/ discussion like any other topic
I've been playing around with saddle angle for a while now. My saddle has a very slight "valley" in the middle where it feels comfortable for me. I had it nose down by about 3-ish degrees and didn't really slide forward, but I did notice some "pressure" in that direction. Just a sort of tugging that was trying to pull my chamois toward the rear. I moved it more toward flat and that issue seems to have gotten less pronounced. This seems like one of those personal preference adjustments for sure. What feels comfortable for one person won't work another. Just my experience...
Absolutely right, in each case it needs to be specific to each rider, their anatomy, their riding posture, and the type of riding they are taking on
Most people don't have Pogacar's upper body weight coupled with his power! The more power you put out, the less weight on your hands. If most people tilted their saddle like Pogacars they would quickly have hand/arm/neck/shoulder aches and would be riding round with arms locked out!
I tilted my mt bike saddle down after I felt I kept moving forward out of the saddle on steep trail climbs. My road bike is flat though.
(OT: Love the Irish colours on your sleeves :-)
This thing with tilting the saddle down, when riding uphill. It doesn't make sense to me. After all, even though the bike will be going up a gradient, your body with respect to the bike does not really change position does it? Or does it? If so, surely not as much as the gradient of the hill?
As someone with lower back pain I can confirm that a small negative tilted saddle helps reduce (my) back pain. We don't sit in an "L" shape on a bike, so there's little need for a horizontally flat saddle. Of course it's all a personal preference, so experiment.
By mistake/accident, my saddle got set up about 3 degrees negative on my roadbike before a 100 mile fondo. Had to do with travelling and bike packaging for shipping. Anyway, I can vouch for me, and I won't be tilting my saddle forward. I couldn't understand how come I kept sitting on the nose with a ton of pressure on the lower region, and this also made the bike feel "short". So for me at least, I'll leave mine 0-degrees level. I ride with a Selle Italia SLR Gel Flow which does have quite a bit of padding and sort of flat, so I slid forward all the time. In disclosure, halfway through we did a roadside hack and got it somewhere about 1 degree b/c by then I knew I had some issue, I just didn't understand it. Ahh what we learn by trial and ERROR.
Last year I was experiencing a lot of pain developing in my right knee, thought it might be a bike fit issue, took the bike in,, as soon as I sat on it the bike fitter saw the problem, my saddle was angle too far down, hence all my weight was moving forward resulting in too much pressure on my knees as I was subconsciously trying to push my weight back up the saddle. So in short, yeas, very important to get yer saddle sorted.
Good data here that makes perfect sense, but it can't be looked at in isolation - everything interacts. I think the saddle angle should be paired with the stem drop. Pros slam their stems giving you better aerodynamics, and the saddle tilting down would relive the strain on the lumbar and sacrum. My lower back is fused from L4 through S1 and I have to tilt my saddle down even on a more upright gravel bike.
HOW does the HAND-pressure vary, with a downward saddle slope?? It matters, yes?! AND...how does Seat Angle for we old-dudes with BIG-bellies! :-))) don' lie...it matters, too!!
only part of a saddle that should be (approximately) flat is the front half (in profile). that usually means the rear has a nice little kick-up which is more supportive and helps with power production 'cause you can sort of push off it.
so there.
Not sure we should be angling our saddles JUST because the pros are doing it. They are a different breed with far more flexibility and core strength, as well as a more aggressive position, than most of us regular cyclists who are only pretending to be pro. If it's needed for a proper fit sure but because the pros do it doesn't mean it's right for us mortals.
Welp, how many delusional weekend worriers do copy the pros? A lot right 😂🤷♂️
Excellent piece Conor. You’re a natural broadcaster. Are you going to do similar ‘cause and effect’ for the rest of the bike setup? Bars, cranks, stems? Etc.
-8 works great for me. Love being able to roll forward, hunker up a bit and use the whole torso to drive through the glutes.
Yea, it should be vertical so it would lock you in.