If you're looking to add some structure to your 2021 training I've got training plans available here: www.trainingpeaks.com/coach/dylanjohnsontraining#trainingplans
I wonder if the benefits/adaptations of the types of training alter with age? Obviously degenerative age related changes impact training methods. Personally moving from the two training regimes high & low cadence impacts me negatively as I find low cadence drill has too many physical variables when performing - for strength improvement gym environment allows for a more controlled strength training adaptations and reduces risks.
Lower cadences under load constrict blood vessels more. Higher cadences reduce load and less blood vessel constriction. 75 -90 rpm is a good zone. Over 90 and that opens up blood vessels, but that is harder to maintain without a lot of training.
I would just watch Dylan's other video on cadence a year back = your body knows what's most efficient for it in any given situation, go with what feels most comfortable and don't worry about it too much...but yeah watch that first vid he did 😁
@@chakrasurya7601 Higher cadence improves muscle coordination, improves endurance trough higher number of contractions and puts more load on the cardiovascular system vompared to muscles. On the other side low cadence (at same watts) increases number of fibers recruited and puts less load on the cardio. So whatever your bottleneck is choose one more or do both. I often do low cadence first to make muscle tired and then finish with high cadence for nervous system adaptation.
In the 80s, we rode fixed gears all thru winter. That was just how it was. They smooth out your stroke and they’re easier to clean. We didn’t get back on real bikes until mid-March.
Dylan, I want to thank you for all the content this year. It really helped me trough this COVID year. I’ll be looking out for your movies next year. For now I wish you all the best and happy holidays
Its fantastic to see that your videos are always about cycling and how to improve cycling...too many other cycling youtubers seem to vlog about themselves and have a false sense of their TH-cam influence...😎
Reading a teleprompter of scientific data vs story telling are targeting different audiences. If I want info from some Coach vs do I want to relate with the struggling cyclists and root for them to succeed.
from doing low cadence strength workout of 15 min x 4 iam able to stay in in chosen gear and respond to group pace changes without having to shift , also power exersion endurance has improved on steep sections
Hello! I believe that there is another important point, which is that training at other than your chosen cadence (both lower and higher) makes you a better cyclist, so hopefully faster. If you only pedal at your chosen cadence then you become a "one speed" who does not respond well to changes in pace as well as situations in which he can't use his optimal cadence. The ability to deal with various cadences is obviously important for racing and typical of elite cyclists who can pedal at 120rpm in sprints and 50rpm on very steep climbs. Historically, beginner racing cyclists have been taught to ride at different types of cadences by doing at least one month of pre-season training in a fixed gear.
As a mountain biker I’ve been training on a single speed and find this to be very accurate. I’ve learned more technique during the last year than I have since I was a beginner. Especially the mental part of how to sprint into a climb to ensure I reach the top without stalling. Etc.
Looks like I better get down to Home Depot and buy some buckets and a bar since all the gyms are closed. Thanks for the content, as always best online!
I came to cycling from a strong gym background, 455 parallel squat, 565 conventional deadlift etc. What low cadence work did for me was help me transition that gym leg strength to the bike. I would be spinning at ~100 RPM in zwift races and would feel like anything under 90 RPM was grinding. After implementing low cadence work 2x a week 3x5 minutes 50-60 RPM starting at sweet spot and progressively overloading watts by increasing 5 watts per interval per session my legs actually feel somewhat adapted to cycling. It helped me get over 1000W 15 second power seated. So IMO theres room for nuance here; if you are a typical cyclist who could do with developing some gym leg strength it may not help but if you have leg strength and need to transfer it into the pedals it is valuable. Great video as always appreciate your content!
Push that iron! If you absolutely hate pushing iron, then ride big gears in a structured way couple rides a week on an old steelio bike. Great content again, Dylan.
One aspect of cycling where low cadence work has really helped me was during the off/base season. In my country, training during the winter usually means mostly riding the turbo. On the turbo, I tend to always spin at a high cadence. When the season starts and I get to the first actual climb, i start grinding at a low cadence, which feels really awful after a winter of high cadence. So forcing myself to go low cadence in the winter has helped me be primed for actual outdoor riding.
Once your past the getting in shape part, interval training works great, you have to train for your race. Learned that from Cross Country Skiing. High cadence vs low cadence? I’ve learned no pain means no injury, and high cadence saves my knees. Almost all the grinders I know have had knee surgery or full replacements. You can’t ride if you blow out your knees. Running and weight training helps me improve speed without blowing out my knees. High cadence improves cardio and endurance without damaging my knees. I’ve been a life long rider, I’m 60 years old. I’ve been a high cadence rider for most of those years and still have my knees, any questions which is better?
thanks for the insight. i've been using low cadence efforts for the last few years. I use them both for threshold repeats(although i usually alternate high and low cadence during these) and for longer endurance rides. I feel like they have helped for sure, especially in the woods, where the cadence is naturally lower but the force is high.
Dylan, new subscriber here. I’ve been a club cyclist for about three years, taking a year off from laziness during Covid. You really helped me a lot today about using the large ring on the chain ring. I’ve been shifting mostly with the small ring on the chain ring and wondering why I get drop once in a while when riding with faster people. Damn. Today I rode with a group and used what she said, the large chain ring. I didn’t get dropped and I was dropping them! Thank you so much.
I have been cycling seriously since my university years and I am now 47 and still religiously cycle, and I do observe this to be true. At the height of Armstrong's era where we were all dumbstruck to see him attacking other pure climbers like Pantani, Iban Mayo, at high cadence, my friends and I started to do more high cadence training ride just to experiment ourselves and to see if we can all climb like Lance! Hahahahaa but overtime I started to feel like I am more efficient at cranking heavier gears just like Jan Ulrich! Especially so, most of my cycling for competition are for triathlon /ironman races! All my PBs for the cycling leg, are done on 65-70 rpm cadence and the time when I did try to do the Armstrong's high cadence trick, I ended up with poor timing! Thank you very much for this video, now I can scientifically argue my case with my cycling friends!
Dylan, you need to write a book. I really like the videos and learn a lot from each one, but I need a written compendium that I can use as a reference tool and guide. Tom Danielson did it. Yours would be a lot better.
1. I guess one can get stuck at freely chosen cadence if he won't do work outside of his range. 2. High cadence needs higher heart rate, low cadence offers lowering of heart rate. 3. Sometimes, low cadence is necessary to maintain grip of the rear wheel. 4. You can get out of your gear range thus you are forced to high or low cadence. In conclusion, I prefer to train at different cadence.
It's low gear/high cadence that maintains grip. Having high gear/low cadence only serves to overcome grip/static friction, which results in the wheel skidding. Of course, low gear and low cadence would maintain grip even more, but I doubt anyone would have low cadence in such a gear unless if you're riding on more than 25% gradient.
It depends on the sprint duration and how much effort you're putting in. I like to do maximal effort low cadence intervals of around 5-10 seconds around 80 rpm, giving it everything, with 2-3 minutes easy spinning between.
Chungisms never die! For those unaware of his point. I can lift 15 lb barbell or a loaded 45 lb bar at 50 or 100 reps/min. Which rate (cadence) completed more work? Which created the greatest tension or force?
Since I'm not a fan on patellar tendonitis, I keep my cadence like my speed on the freeway . . . between 70 and 80, all day long. With my 700 watt max sprint power that's barely over twice my FTP, I'm not trying to drop anybody. If I hurt my knees, I'm off the bike and that definitely hurts performance. +1 for the self-selected cadence plan.
it's improved mine for 37 years... a la Bernard Hinault. 5X TDF winner... and every Time Trial. This coupled with some high cadence intervals, works wonders. Eventually the high resistance low cadence training becomes high resistance high cadence outcomes... takes 1.5-2 years. A muscle is not going to adapt to a resistance it does not encounter.
Hey Dylan, great video as always. Would love to see a video comparing virtual cycling to outdoor cycling. Explaining the differences how virtual cycling specialists/pros seem to out perform “real world” pros in the virtual world. Especially since a world class rower just won UCI E-sports worlds versus “real world” pros and virtual cycling specialists/pros.
Thanks for this, I feel the only benefit of cadence training is being able to ride at a wide variety of cadences, e.g. if you run out of gears on a climb etc.
Haha good vid DJ. Ive not done any strength work since 2001 and weirdly enough havent had any training induced knee injuries. When I got a power meter in 2009 that is when things really kicked off and I understood why 90-100rpm is so important when you are trying to smash it.
I have found that in races, it is useful to be able to mash a "too tall" gear at the beginning of climbs in order to keep my heart rate and blood oxygen level under control. That way, if the group starts hammering towards the top of the climb, I still have some VO2 in reserve to not get dropped. For that reason, I do low cadence climbing work, just to train myself to be able to do it well and efficiently when needed in a race.
@@robbiddlecombe8392 Agreed! I used to think that you needed to always keep a high cadence, but experience showed me that there are different cadences and gearing for different situations.
@Erik Midtskogen, yes that makes sense. In the last year I've been working my way onto a few all-time Strava leaderboards for 20 to 30 min climbs (6 to 10% grade, 500+ riders). Initially (when I first paid attention) I found that I was close, maybe 2 min away. To improve, just "riding harder" and losing a few pounds helped but didn't close the gap. So I took a few of the climbs and created segments that broke the climbs down into maybe 10-12 sections, and then studied what leaderboard guys were doing. As you say, they had subtle variations -- they started fast with lower cadence, they attacked at the end of sections where there was a chance for a brief recovery (i.e. less grade or even a flat spot), they often varied their cadence. Now I got onto a couple of boards, and aiming for more. I realize leaderboards are not racing, but it does look like top 10 guys have greater variation and are putting thought into where they can gain an edge.
@@jeffbrower8773 So, what you're doing for Strava leaderboards are basically uphill time trials. Physics sets out some rules that affect the optimal power targets for different sections of a climb to get up that climb the fastest for the lowest average power output. At double-digit gradients, aerodynamic drag is almost negligible, while on flat or nearly flat sections it is the main force you're fighting against. Since aerodynamic drag increases with the square of velocity (meaning that power required increases with the cube of velocity) you gain or lose very little time on flat or almost flat sections in exchange for increased or reduced power on those sections. However, on double-digit gradients, the return on investment of power is linear: Twice the power nets you almost double the speed. Human physiology works in basically the opposite manner. A few minutes spent at 15% greater than FTP will put you into oxygen debt and make you blow up on the climb, killing your overall performance. So, you compromise. Do attack the steepest parts with some extra power, but use the flatter parts to recover from those efforts in your tempo power zone. And if it's just a steady climb, do the whole thing right at FTP. Different riders are different, but I find that I get my best one-hour power at lower cadences (70-80 RPM) while doing most of the riding out of the saddle. For some reason, I just can't hold the same power while time-trialing on the flats at 90 RPM or higher. BTW, Coach Dillon has a video on climbing here: th-cam.com/video/qSk_KtXU_qs/w-d-xo.html
On either an episode of Fast Labs, formerly Fast Talk, or That Triathlon Show, Sebastian Webber talked about using low cadence (60 RPM) Sweetspot work after high intensity intervals w/Tony Martin to reduce VLAMAX. Meanwhile, on the Empirical Cycling Podcast Watts Doc 24, they discuss using high cadence w/VO2 efforts to achieve a higher HR during the interval and further promote stroke volume for better gains v a lower cadence. Those together make me think: Is there a benefit to using a cadence to compliment a training intensity to further gains; high cadence with high intensity (Anything above VT2) and low cadence for low and moderate intensities (sub VT2), assuming one’s goa is to increase FTP (which... is really everyone’s goal right)? Do you know of any studies that looked at cadence manipulation with varying intensities or have any thoughts on that?
Great comment, would love an exploration by Dylan on the interaction of VO2max and VLamax. Also polarised vs sweetspot training depending on athlete needs.
Brilliant video. I have shared the weight training videos with a buddy. When he told his cycling mates what he was doing they all laughed and told him he would get “heavy legs”. He tells me that he has been beasting them on a regular basis especially on climbs. 👍💪 Love the sentence: Luckily we don’t have to assume because we have studies... #Science Rocks. Also love the critical analysis of the papers ... they are not all created equal. Keep up the great work and have BHD bring some more nutrition products to the market in 2021. 😉🚴♂️
Low and high cadence drills are beneficial in the way that they identify position issues on the bike. I also think low cadence drills are beneficial for quad heavy cyclists as their CNS will have to recruit other muscles to produce the necessary force and this will hopefully translate to better recruitment at normal cadences. My 2 cents based on personal experience.
I have an idea for next video: can rope skipping improve your cycling performance? Becouse rope skipping you can do just anywhere and it may be good part of training.
This right here. When you feel stuck in a rut, and you are either going to sit on the couch, or do low cadence intervals, the intervals are better. Not everyone has unlimited motivation.
I have done a bit of specific low cadence training purely because I wanted to improve my torque and ability to sustain a low cadence incase of a very steep climb during a race. However over the winter I've been using a shit box unaero 12 kg ribble bike and living in Yorkshire my 25 36 cassette as a small juniour has meant that when I got back onto my summer bike my cadence felt slightly uncomfortable considering the fact that in most roads I was at around 10 rpm lower than the summer before so I think low cadence has its place for training for certain specific races, you have to be careful not to over do it with shit gear ratios and little normal cadence training
You could make a comparison to a baseball player who puts a weighted donut on his bat and do some practice swings before getting up to bat Then when coming up to bat removing the donut the bat feels lighter and you may have more control over the bat for a brief moment which batting is mostly brief . I have been riding a smaller cog on my local trails lately to see if going back to my larger cogs I can go faster and I would say yes but like the donut on the bat its a brief benefit . So if your having a race or going after a strava segment there maybe a short term benefit maybe more so psychologically thinking the pedaling is easy in that higher cog . You could also ride a heavier bike or add weight to the bike your ride not unlike weight lifting to gain strength and remove that weight when your ready to race . It would be interesting having a donut type item for a bike to add weight to your bike incrementally like weight lifting
i have done an experiment on my myself, some seasons i have included low cadence and some i haven't, when i have, i have had my best tt. i feel that i can push larger gears. Also, if the pro's do it, there must be a reason. Science usually lags behind what pro's do
Well, i didnt know i needed to write a dissertation. I have already natural thick muscular legs. My sprint is already better than most of my friends. Plenty of power
Enjoyed every second. Please!!!Do not dumb down your content. Perhaps some of your subs should actually study a glossary of terms. Thoroughly appreciate your contribution to training philosophy.
For the studies indicating that only strength training improved economy, etc (not VO2 max), what strength training activities were used and what was the prescribed workout in terms of % of max lift, sets and repetitions, and how often? You mentioned squats. When I ran as a 400m sprinter. Our leg workouts were squats, deadlifts and weighted step ups twice a week. And then we did plyometrics 1-2 times a week depending upon where in the racing season we were. I have read there is also debate about the efficacy of plyometrics vs weights for improving the same factors you mentioned (along with commentary about which one mitigated injury risk [although I can't remember which actually mitigated the risk!]). Thanks.
Hi, i'm a bit late... In France, coaches say "it's useless to do low cadence grinding if you don't couple it to spinning intervals"... An interval traising I like is : 4-6 x 3' low cadence just below FTP (90-95) - 2' high cadence at a lower intensity (80-85% ftp). Don't know the real benefits, but it's fun !
The rationale behind doing some low-cadence intervals is mainly to improve neuromuscular efficiency. So the work we did in the gym is applied on the bike, what will create some new neurological connections. That is a reason why I personnally think it is useful to do a cool down on the bike at the end of a strength workout. Just to build some "free" nerves. But I doubt this last idea has been backed up by the science. Also, by doing some long low-cadence intervals (i.e. submaximal strength repetitions), that develops our endurance strength, which is another type of strength focussing directly on our Type I muscle fibers. It won't build some big and strong fibers but it will help to make them more efficient by teaching them to work for a long time.
Johan hit the nail on the head. Also I would add, cadence work affects stroke volume. You'll see Vo2 work done at high cadence as well. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8775571/
To somewhat echo this, low cadence work helped me engage my pedal stroke better. Before I did any I never engaged my glutes, now I do and sustained power has become much more manageable.
After reading Bernard Hinault's book... I took on the challenge. In one year, of 2 years of riding I was dropping cat 2 riders that had 5-10 years, Increased my sprint , TT, and short climbing. My low cadence big gear up hill is key. I use them for HIT workouts. I also use old indoor spin bike where you can cranks the resistance to almost impossible. I must stand to turn the pedals. It strengthens the core muscles... and of course the related CNS and PNS neural pathways. Doing the motion we use in the activity is superior to unrelated heavy weights.
Jeez, Dylan, you are a great source of scientific based information and counselling to the cycling community. Thanks so much for putting together these excellent videos. This video is in line with some sport performance science meta studies that I have recently read. Thanks and blessings!
@@carlosgomezzzzzzz Hehe Pero has visto que sale en este? Ya un cameo más serio pues imagina.. Dylan hablando de ciencia y Zugasti con el cafe aguachirriao
if you're road racer maybe do some mtb riding with some hills in the forest once a week. It's great for getting away and enjoy the outdoors plus you obviously won't go as fast but reaction time gets better in case of a crash in front of you. It's a slower cadence but a great workout and keeps your eyes sharp for looking out for ruts and roots which works your reaction time. Depending on the course you select it could be benificcaly .
I think the problem here is that not all adaptations are directly about performance improvements per se. The reason that I do low cadence drills is actually to increase core strength - this is the quoted reason that Sufferfest for example includes low-cadence workouts too. Not every workout is directly targeting a short term power increase outcome, which tends to be the only outcome that all these studies actually test for. Using the same metrics you’d have to also write off any kind of skills based or handling work as well as any yoga, flexibility or conditioning work. Additionally, low cadence work may not build as much strength as gym work, but it does so in a highly functional and sport-specific way (on the bike). When you’re crunched for time to train, that seems appealing
The justifications people come up with to suit their preconceived personal beliefs/preferences like that somehow disproves the science never ceases to amaze me! Starting out a comment on a 10min video packed with scientific literature findings with 'I think' or 'I believe' isn't a great start. By your logic, wouldn't the most sport specific form of core training be to train your core by doing your intervals at your actual comfortable/preferred cadence as that is how it has to perform during most of your cycling/racing? Wouldn't spending more time improving the quality of your intervals at that cadence paired with actual quality gym work be more beneficial? That is what all the science tells us but yet, people continually come back with 'nah, I reckon...'!
Observations: 1. Early on in the video- hgh cadence training increased the riders' preferred cadence from 93 to 101, 2. 5:49 73-82% max HR is not hard work, even at 40rpm. IIRC, FTP equates roughly to 90% max HR. 3. 9:02 80rpm is indeed fast, for "low cadence", even if the subjects were "sprinting". Conclusions: 1. None of the studies, as far as I can see, used loads/speeds which attempted to equate/compare cycling to weight lifting. I would suggest that something like 40-60rpm, at 100-120% FTP, would generate the same loads as lifting the weights in those squat exercises. Of course, one is not going to be able to do lots of it. The duration of such intervals should equate to the same duration as the squats/deadlifts/whatever sessions, for a valid comparison. 2. Power=Torque x Angular Velocity. If you can increase one or both, you win. From the above observations, it seems that polarising cadence, either side of your present preferred cadence, in separate sessions, gives you the best combination: do the sub-60rpm grinds one day then, after recovery days, do the same hill session at 120rpm.
Informative video! As a scientist I really appreciate the survey of appropriate references. That said, it always seemed easier to me to push a lot of watts at a relatively low cadence. But that also can cause some wear on the cartilage.... I know!
Great video... so you could also say that higer cadence training is the worst...? It seems like when comparing HC vs LC... some studies LC is a bit better... then LC vs confortable cadence... the LC is not good enough...
ive actually been doing some low cadence intervals wich my training plan has me doing a few times a week, the idea is to not necessarily get the exact benefits as I would from lifting, but since the force is similar it will help prepare my legs for when I do start lifting.
Loved this one Dylan. Thanks for your posts. One area you didn't get into was dealing with steep climbs (above say 10%). For me anyways, I'll be in my lowest gear and won't have the fitness to maintain a high cadence even in my lowest gear. My only options are to either stop pedaling or pedal at a low cadence (below 65 say). So, practicing that I think helps prepare me for those moments. So, maybe it doesn't make me any faster but it sure makes me acclimated to the times when I have no other option.
So, this raises the question of how low cadence intervals differ to hill-repeats? Is a 5 x 4 min session at 350 watts with a cadence of 75 rpm likely to produce the same training stimulus on the flat or on a climb? Same power, same cadence, same duration. Hill-repeats seem to find their way into many training programs, but it seems at best inconclusive whether low-cadence intervals are effective. Thoughts?
So the 75 rpm is your 'natural chosen' cadence? If so, that's not really hi or low speed cadence. Have you ever tried a couple of those at a fixed 35 - 40 rpm?
I came to buy the beast mode and all I got was good advice. Would you please give BH guy some more air time, if they keep listening to you everyone is going to get faster and where does that get us?
Great topic and invaluable info which validate my high cadence (hc) intervals curiosity. I think hc also help to on surges/sprints which usually lead to hc.
Time Trialists use long big gear intervals in their tempo -sweetspot range to recruit fast twitch fibers and force them to work more "aerobically", reduce their glycolytic capacity and therefore reduce rider's Vlamax. The purpose is to increase FTP being VO2 equal. This seems to be the main purpose pro cyclist do big gear works, rather than to increase strength. It would be nice to see a video in which you discuss the relationship between VO2max, Vlamax and FTP
Why do you think someone like Egan Bernal includes Low cadenece (45rpmat around @280W) intervals into his training before the TDF? many speculate because of strength training but this video proves that he would be much better of just picking up some weights... What is your opinion on why elite cyclist still do low CAD work at all?
I'll do 3 to 6x30" efforts at 40-50 RPM on a Spinner bike with as much resistance as I can right after a lifting session. The day after I set a new PR for Max power off a standing start (1280W). Clearly optimal adaptation did not occur in 24 hours but I chalk this up to enhancing neuromuscular recruitment and tying in the lifting efforts to the specificity of turning pedals. The rest of the time I like to spin at 90-100.
Dylan, the mass gainer in cupcake flavor is the "bomb"! I am becoming a beast, I practice my squats by getting off the couch, sometimes several times in one day!! Keep the good advice coming, I am sure it will come in handy when I get back on my bike!!
Hi Dylan! First of all, I really like your approach of evaluating "training wisdom" by looking at the science. However, sometimes it would really help if you asked a coach with a profound knowledge of exercise physiology first, before doing your research. Such a person could have told you, that low cadence training has its place in a training regime, when done in the right way. I'm talking about longer intervals (3-5x up to 20mins) with a cadence between 40-60rpm at sweet-spot intensity, preferably uphill. Because of the lower cadence, more force is needed to produce the power and therefore more type II fibers are recruited. During the longer intervals the type II fibers are especially stressed and are likely to fatigue. This forces the muscle fibers to use their oxidative abilities to produce energy and adaptation will happen. This effect can be promoted with restricted carb consumption (train low). I'm not entirely sure, if there is research in cycling about this, but definitely in other endurance sports!
@@SettleNow No, I don't think so. However I saw that I included the following link in my notes about this topic: www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Training-Fast-Twitch-Muscle-Fibers-%3A-Why-and-How-Maglischo/60cb52ee31f9b9b02f1a1e51a8974bdaa47a4128?p2df I think this explains the physiology of muscle fibers. As noted in other comments, this kind of training reduces the VLamax. Because this parameter was (and still is) hard to measure, there is not much research about the effect of training programs on VLamax. I hope I could help.
@@philipskotzke I was going to ask that question too. There has been a lot of talk about lowering the VLamax by causing a muscle fiber type shift doing low cadence work at around SweetSpot. There are studies showing that the shift is possible. People like Sebastian Weber and Dan Lorang are talking about it in the "that triathlon show" podcast.
And also...one important thing about cadence for me is...You can train to be better at a higher cadence, for example, equally efficient on 95rpm, as on 85 rpm before. And if power stays the same, you are using less power, less strain, less push on each revolution. Ergo, saving your knees, ligamets and have faster recovery.
My workout: - I do this in the spring, coming off the winter weight session. - I have a moderately steep hill that takes about 3 minutes to climb. - I start in the small ring up front (road bike), and the 4th-ish easiest gear in back. I go up once in this gear. - Hop back down, shift up one gear, go up again. - Will do 5-6 trips up the hill, shifting up one gear each time. - I do this 1-2 times a week, for 4-6 weeks in the spring. - By the time I get to the last week, I am pushing the 53x25 for all 5-6 trips up the hill. - It really does convert strength built in the gym onto the bike. But as I get further into spring, and the miles build up, I stop doing this workout as it takes it's toll. But as the workout only takes 45 minutes-ish, it's a really efficient way to get strength early season.
There is nothing strange that low cadence work does not gives benefits of the gym. Simple math (metric, but you can do it for lb-ft). 300W at 50rpm is ~57Nm. 57Nm at 175mm crank gives 327N, so around 33kg of force. So it is similar, for 70kg rider, to squats with 20-25kg additional weight (assuming during squat you are lifting ~65-70% of your weight). So it is rather similar to warmup for serious lifting routine, than the proper gym work.
Did 70-75 rpm training in the base period in Z2 Z3 every other day for 1.5 to 3 hrs plus gym work. Made me a better cyclist and actually won a race or two. With the new gear ratios seems to be no need to ride at lower cadence to simulate climbing which I did since I lived in the flats. Strength training has another benefit people don't think about which is weight loss or maintance for the working athlete who might otherwise just do boring spin work on a trainer in the winter.
Great information. To look further at the point of finding your ideal cadence then one must take gear selection into account. Simply changing chainring size can drastically alter natural cadence... but how to you find your optimal gearing? Hmmm...
An anecdotal story that might be worth looking up. I race ocean kayaks competitively and there was an article a number of years ago in SA Paddler about how the South African Olympic team destroyed their own results in (I think) the Beijing olympics by doing a ton of resistance training. (Essentially dragging objects. Much like bigger gears lower cadence) They attributed their abysmal results directly to that training. Instead my other buddy who was an Olympic kayaker and now trains his wife a Hungarian team paddler (multiple Olympic medalist) use weight in the boat so as not to disturb the motion of the paddle stroke. Maybe that would be better for cycling as well.
Can you answer this question though: If an athlete has a superior vo2 max, does this person benefit with high cadence? Able to use more oxygen to the muscles and less waste? You see the elite's spin the fastests...aka chris froome, and others.
Hey I am going in (hopefully not too rude) and say I think he / the research answered that - it depends on what feels best for you (i.e. what you train for). Froome and others (L.A.) with really high cadence train that way.
Dylan, great vid as always. Science-centric, well presented, and moments of levity. But- I feel you left out discussing the most obvious scenario on whether MTIs/low cadence high power intervals could be useful: in conjunction with a strength training phase, NOT in lieu of it, ie as an added source of adaptations. Reason that wasn’t covered?
As always, a great video! It might be too specific for a video, but I would be curious to see a video on handlebar width! In terms of aerodynamics, control (MTB/Road), and cardiovascular impingement. Basically, I want to hear if backwards-cap Dylan recommends 35cm track bars for my gravel bike.
Brett Sutton, arguably the most successful triathlon coach, recommends low cadence 'strength' training for the bike... He has some good blog posts about it... although you may describe the samples as too small, or cycling 180km in the tt position, saving yourself for the run as not being 'representative of cycling' ;-)
Love the videos! I would love to ask what the difference is between Threshold training and Sweetspot training and if the research regarding Threshold training is actually referring to Sweetspot or something else?
I think that low cadence training is beneficial to train all the different fibers as opposed to just the high cadence ones. On a fast group ride where someone is barely able to hang on because of aerobic limitations, being able to drop down to low 80's cadence and get the heart rate down a bit is very beneficial... One is also able to go faster with less effort when the proper muscle fibers are properly trained. Obviously, if the person I described on the group ride has not trained low cadence, it will not be as beneficial... Personally, in time trials, I increased my average speed by 1.5 MPH after working on the 70-80 cadence range instead of just doing 95-105 all the time. When a person can switch between both cadences, they can vary which fibers are being used and stretch their potential kind of like having clipless pedals that allow a person to vary which muscle groups they use instead of continuously mashing with flat pedals.. One other helpful thing to know would be exactly what weight training exercises would be considered the correct ones in terms of muscle loading in relation to pedaling... To just say "weight training" doesn't help the average rider that much IMO.
It certainly worked for me. I did ride a mtb that had a 38x32 lowest gear for about a month, just doing 1 hour lunch rides. Which previously I did for months on a bike that went all the way to 28x42. After that one month, I got into spectacular form, riding KOMs that were just impossible before. Is it just that I went harder mashing that big gear? Probably yes. But would I go that deep if I could just bail out on an easy gear? Probably not.
If you're looking to add some structure to your 2021 training I've got training plans available here: www.trainingpeaks.com/coach/dylanjohnsontraining#trainingplans
I wonder if the benefits/adaptations of the types of training alter with age? Obviously degenerative age related changes impact training methods. Personally moving from the two training regimes high & low cadence impacts me negatively as I find low cadence drill has too many physical variables when performing - for strength improvement gym environment allows for a more controlled strength training adaptations and reduces risks.
Where are the BH Dylan training plans??
@@riktye8800 vbbiph
I do low cadence training because I hate my knees.
I'm on my third set of titanium knees, love them 30% hills at 17.4 RPM
@@poochie8208 they don't make carbon knees yet?
At some point in time I am counting on getting new knees anyhow.
@@fkhan98 They do, but they are not covered by insurance yet.
@@poochie8208 awesome, hopefully the carbon knees come with a carbon fibre tattoo so we can show them off too 🤣
The speed and direction of the wind pretty much determines my cadence.
same HAHAHa
Very pleased to see this subject posted. Currently trying to get my head around cadence. So much opposing advice. Cheers...
Lower cadences under load constrict blood vessels more. Higher cadences reduce load and less blood vessel constriction. 75 -90 rpm is a good zone. Over 90 and that opens up blood vessels, but that is harder to maintain without a lot of training.
@@markconnelly1806 thanks Mark, really appreciate the physiological reasoning to keeping in a higher cadence. Cheers!
I would just watch Dylan's other video on cadence a year back = your body knows what's most efficient for it in any given situation, go with what feels most comfortable and don't worry about it too much...but yeah watch that first vid he did 😁
Is there any benefit doing zone 2 ride on low cadence? I'm cycling on turbo and sweat more on climbing zone 2 ride
@@chakrasurya7601 Higher cadence improves muscle coordination, improves endurance trough higher number of contractions and puts more load on the cardiovascular system vompared to muscles. On the other side low cadence (at same watts) increases number of fibers recruited and puts less load on the cardio. So whatever your bottleneck is choose one more or do both. I often do low cadence first to make muscle tired and then finish with high cadence for nervous system adaptation.
Simple solution: Ride fixed gear. Then you ride the full spectrum of cadences
This
Any good program should include strength training and riding at a variety of intensities and cadences
YES
In the 80s, we rode fixed gears all thru winter. That was just how it was. They smooth out your stroke and they’re easier to clean. We didn’t get back on real bikes until mid-March.
Fixed gear hill repeats get the best of both worlds low cadence strength training going up and very high cadence spinning coming back down.
I notice that when I climb on the big chainring for the past 2 months, may top speed on flats improved.
Dylan, I want to thank you for all the content this year. It really helped me trough this COVID year. I’ll be looking out for your movies next year. For now I wish you all the best and happy holidays
Its fantastic to see that your videos are always about cycling and how to improve cycling...too many other cycling youtubers seem to vlog about themselves and have a false sense of their TH-cam influence...😎
Even when Dylan talks about himself it's in reference to a race and how his training and prep affected the race.
# Vegan Cyclist 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Reading a teleprompter of scientific data vs story telling are targeting different audiences. If I want info from some Coach vs do I want to relate with the struggling cyclists and root for them to succeed.
Oh, man. This is a total problem nowadays, thank you for formulating it
There is no substitute for resistance training and is a must. Lift weights, climb hill, feel the burn.
from doing low cadence strength workout of 15 min x 4 iam able to stay in in chosen gear and respond to group pace changes without having to shift , also power exersion endurance has improved on steep sections
ya i think the big one is being able to react to changing situations regardless of gearing if you become comfortable with a range of cadences
Yeah i agree, also getting used to different cadences is very typical for track cyclists
Hello! I believe that there is another important point, which is that training at other than your chosen cadence (both lower and higher) makes you a better cyclist, so hopefully faster. If you only pedal at your chosen cadence then you become a "one speed" who does not respond well to changes in pace as well as situations in which he can't use his optimal cadence. The ability to deal with various cadences is obviously important for racing and typical of elite cyclists who can pedal at 120rpm in sprints and 50rpm on very steep climbs. Historically, beginner racing cyclists have been taught to ride at different types of cadences by doing at least one month of pre-season training in a fixed gear.
As a mountain biker I’ve been training on a single speed and find this to be very accurate. I’ve learned more technique during the last year than I have since I was a beginner. Especially the mental part of how to sprint into a climb to ensure I reach the top without stalling. Etc.
yep,having a wider range of cadences to work with makes a well-rounded rider.
except that your chosen cadence probably changes based on the situation...
Looks like I better get down to Home Depot and buy some buckets and a bar since all the gyms are closed. Thanks for the content, as always best online!
I came to cycling from a strong gym background, 455 parallel squat, 565 conventional deadlift etc. What low cadence work did for me was help me transition that gym leg strength to the bike. I would be spinning at ~100 RPM in zwift races and would feel like anything under 90 RPM was grinding. After implementing low cadence work 2x a week 3x5 minutes 50-60 RPM starting at sweet spot and progressively overloading watts by increasing 5 watts per interval per session my legs actually feel somewhat adapted to cycling. It helped me get over 1000W 15 second power seated. So IMO theres room for nuance here; if you are a typical cyclist who could do with developing some gym leg strength it may not help but if you have leg strength and need to transfer it into the pedals it is valuable. Great video as always appreciate your content!
I’m still here for the mass gainer beast mode cupcake flavor!
The beast mode rocks!
Zestronen!
Mmmm cupcake flavor 🧁
Me too. 3% ers unite! & lift some real weights
Every time i thought of a question you answered it in the next segment. Great channel. Subbed.
I really appreciate your scientific approach! No anecdotal evidence allowed here!
That’s all well and good when you’re taking about a subject with a massive literature. Cycling doesn’t have that.
Push that iron! If you absolutely hate pushing iron, then ride big gears in a structured way couple rides a week on an old steelio bike. Great content again, Dylan.
One aspect of cycling where low cadence work has really helped me was during the off/base season. In my country, training during the winter usually means mostly riding the turbo. On the turbo, I tend to always spin at a high cadence. When the season starts and I get to the first actual climb, i start grinding at a low cadence, which feels really awful after a winter of high cadence. So forcing myself to go low cadence in the winter has helped me be primed for actual outdoor riding.
Low cadence worse for your knees.
Once your past the getting in shape part, interval training works great, you have to train for your race. Learned that from Cross Country Skiing. High cadence vs low cadence? I’ve learned no pain means no injury, and high cadence saves my knees. Almost all the grinders I know have had knee surgery or full replacements. You can’t ride if you blow out your knees. Running and weight training helps me improve speed without blowing out my knees. High cadence improves cardio and endurance without damaging my knees. I’ve been a life long rider, I’m 60 years old. I’ve been a high cadence rider for most of those years and still have my knees, any questions which is better?
Totally agree. High cadence seems to lead to much less knee trouble.
thanks for the insight. i've been using low cadence efforts for the last few years. I use them both for threshold repeats(although i usually alternate high and low cadence during these) and for longer endurance rides. I feel like they have helped for sure, especially in the woods, where the cadence is naturally lower but the force is high.
Dude I’m 56 ... you do a lot of work and provide good direction. Thank you Dylan.
I should’ve subbed to this channel a long time ago. I’ve watched a dozen or so of your videos and you crush every time
Dylan, new subscriber here. I’ve been a club cyclist for about three years, taking a year off from laziness during Covid. You really helped me a lot today about using the large ring on the chain ring. I’ve been shifting mostly with the small ring on the chain ring and wondering why I get drop once in a while when riding with faster people. Damn. Today I rode with a group and used what she said, the large chain ring. I didn’t get dropped and I was dropping them! Thank you so much.
I have been cycling seriously since my university years and I am now 47 and still religiously cycle, and I do observe this to be true. At the height of Armstrong's era where we were all dumbstruck to see him attacking other pure climbers like Pantani, Iban Mayo, at high cadence, my friends and I started to do more high cadence training ride just to experiment ourselves and to see if we can all climb like Lance! Hahahahaa but overtime I started to feel like I am more efficient at cranking heavier gears just like Jan Ulrich! Especially so, most of my cycling for competition are for triathlon /ironman races! All my PBs for the cycling leg, are done on 65-70 rpm cadence and the time when I did try to do the Armstrong's high cadence trick, I ended up with poor timing! Thank you very much for this video, now I can scientifically argue my case with my cycling friends!
Dylan, you need to write a book. I really like the videos and learn a lot from each one, but I need a written compendium that I can use as a reference tool and guide. Tom Danielson did it. Yours would be a lot better.
Great idea.
1. I guess one can get stuck at freely chosen cadence if he won't do work outside of his range.
2. High cadence needs higher heart rate, low cadence offers lowering of heart rate.
3. Sometimes, low cadence is necessary to maintain grip of the rear wheel.
4. You can get out of your gear range thus you are forced to high or low cadence.
In conclusion, I prefer to train at different cadence.
It's low gear/high cadence that maintains grip. Having high gear/low cadence only serves to overcome grip/static friction, which results in the wheel skidding.
Of course, low gear and low cadence would maintain grip even more, but I doubt anyone would have low cadence in such a gear unless if you're riding on more than 25% gradient.
Loving the Francis cade b roll, quality footage
Francis shooting the best footage, Dylan doing the best science. Great combination.
No idea why I am in the background of your video in the back and red top with the allez sprint, but high cadence is the way 😂✌️🙌
It depends on the sprint duration and how much effort you're putting in. I like to do maximal effort low cadence intervals of around 5-10 seconds around 80 rpm, giving it everything, with 2-3 minutes easy spinning between.
Can you do a video on breathing cadence exercises?
Yes and overbreathing, and breathing through your nose.
“Cadence is a red herring” - Robert Chung, from the Topica Wattage forum ~15 (or more?) years ago
"You must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with a herring." - The Knights who till recently said nee
Chungisms never die! For those unaware of his point. I can lift 15 lb barbell or a loaded 45 lb bar at 50 or 100 reps/min. Which rate (cadence) completed more work? Which created the greatest tension or force?
I'm so glad I found your channel; I'm learning so much!
Since I'm not a fan on patellar tendonitis, I keep my cadence like my speed on the freeway . . . between 70 and 80, all day long. With my 700 watt max sprint power that's barely over twice my FTP, I'm not trying to drop anybody. If I hurt my knees, I'm off the bike and that definitely hurts performance. +1 for the self-selected cadence plan.
DJ is like my entertaining Meta Analyst in bike performance 😅
it's improved mine for 37 years... a la Bernard Hinault. 5X TDF winner... and every Time Trial. This coupled with some high cadence intervals, works wonders.
Eventually the high resistance low cadence training becomes high resistance high cadence outcomes... takes 1.5-2 years. A muscle is not going to adapt to a resistance it does not encounter.
Hey Dylan, great video as always. Would love to see a video comparing virtual cycling to outdoor cycling. Explaining the differences how virtual cycling specialists/pros seem to out perform “real world” pros in the virtual world. Especially since a world class rower just won UCI E-sports worlds versus “real world” pros and virtual cycling specialists/pros.
Thanks for this, I feel the only benefit of cadence training is being able to ride at a wide variety of cadences, e.g. if you run out of gears on a climb etc.
Haha good vid DJ.
Ive not done any strength work since 2001 and weirdly enough havent had any training induced knee injuries.
When I got a power meter in 2009 that is when things really kicked off and I understood why 90-100rpm is so important when you are trying to smash it.
I love your channel bro! I learn so much about cycling & training. Keep putting out that knowledge kid!🤙🏾
I have found that in races, it is useful to be able to mash a "too tall" gear at the beginning of climbs in order to keep my heart rate and blood oxygen level under control. That way, if the group starts hammering towards the top of the climb, I still have some VO2 in reserve to not get dropped. For that reason, I do low cadence climbing work, just to train myself to be able to do it well and efficiently when needed in a race.
@@robbiddlecombe8392 Agreed! I used to think that you needed to always keep a high cadence, but experience showed me that there are different cadences and gearing for different situations.
@Erik Midtskogen, yes that makes sense. In the last year I've been working my way onto a few all-time Strava leaderboards for 20 to 30 min climbs (6 to 10% grade, 500+ riders). Initially (when I first paid attention) I found that I was close, maybe 2 min away. To improve, just "riding harder" and losing a few pounds helped but didn't close the gap. So I took a few of the climbs and created segments that broke the climbs down into maybe 10-12 sections, and then studied what leaderboard guys were doing. As you say, they had subtle variations -- they started fast with lower cadence, they attacked at the end of sections where there was a chance for a brief recovery (i.e. less grade or even a flat spot), they often varied their cadence. Now I got onto a couple of boards, and aiming for more. I realize leaderboards are not racing, but it does look like top 10 guys have greater variation and are putting thought into where they can gain an edge.
@@jeffbrower8773 So, what you're doing for Strava leaderboards are basically uphill time trials. Physics sets out some rules that affect the optimal power targets for different sections of a climb to get up that climb the fastest for the lowest average power output. At double-digit gradients, aerodynamic drag is almost negligible, while on flat or nearly flat sections it is the main force you're fighting against. Since aerodynamic drag increases with the square of velocity (meaning that power required increases with the cube of velocity) you gain or lose very little time on flat or almost flat sections in exchange for increased or reduced power on those sections. However, on double-digit gradients, the return on investment of power is linear: Twice the power nets you almost double the speed. Human physiology works in basically the opposite manner. A few minutes spent at 15% greater than FTP will put you into oxygen debt and make you blow up on the climb, killing your overall performance. So, you compromise. Do attack the steepest parts with some extra power, but use the flatter parts to recover from those efforts in your tempo power zone. And if it's just a steady climb, do the whole thing right at FTP. Different riders are different, but I find that I get my best one-hour power at lower cadences (70-80 RPM) while doing most of the riding out of the saddle. For some reason, I just can't hold the same power while time-trialing on the flats at 90 RPM or higher.
BTW, Coach Dillon has a video on climbing here: th-cam.com/video/qSk_KtXU_qs/w-d-xo.html
Dylan, your ability to compare studies is top notch!
I appreciate the way you science up your video’s. Quite different, very interesting. I can see a lot of work goes into them 👍
On either an episode of Fast Labs, formerly Fast Talk, or That Triathlon Show, Sebastian Webber talked about using low cadence (60 RPM) Sweetspot work after high intensity intervals w/Tony Martin to reduce VLAMAX. Meanwhile, on the Empirical Cycling Podcast Watts Doc 24, they discuss using high cadence w/VO2 efforts to achieve a higher HR during the interval and further promote stroke volume for better gains v a lower cadence. Those together make me think: Is there a benefit to using a cadence to compliment a training intensity to further gains; high cadence with high intensity (Anything above VT2) and low cadence for low and moderate intensities (sub VT2), assuming one’s goa is to increase FTP (which... is really everyone’s goal right)? Do you know of any studies that looked at cadence manipulation with varying intensities or have any thoughts on that?
Great comment, would love an exploration by Dylan on the interaction of VO2max and VLamax. Also polarised vs sweetspot training depending on athlete needs.
Brilliant video. I have shared the weight training videos with a buddy. When he told his cycling mates what he was doing they all laughed and told him he would get “heavy legs”. He tells me that he has been beasting them on a regular basis especially on climbs. 👍💪
Love the sentence: Luckily we don’t have to assume because we have studies... #Science Rocks.
Also love the critical analysis of the papers ... they are not all created equal.
Keep up the great work and have BHD bring some more nutrition products to the market in 2021.
😉🚴♂️
Man your channel is so valuable, thank you for all the work you put in
So glad to have found your channel. New to programming my own workouts and found this video very helpful!
Low and high cadence drills are beneficial in the way that they identify position issues on the bike. I also think low cadence drills are beneficial for quad heavy cyclists as their CNS will have to recruit other muscles to produce the necessary force and this will hopefully translate to better recruitment at normal cadences. My 2 cents based on personal experience.
I have an idea for next video: can rope skipping improve your cycling performance? Becouse rope skipping you can do just anywhere and it may be good part of training.
30-60 sec interval low cadence work, 40-50rpm got me out of a rut and boosted my cycling strength significantly.
This right here. When you feel stuck in a rut, and you are either going to sit on the couch, or do low cadence intervals, the intervals are better. Not everyone has unlimited motivation.
@King Of Crunk i feel that im my fastest at 60 RPM bug gear high cadence like 100 RPM im spinning and no way i cant do 20 mph do you agree with me...
@King Of Crunk try a fixed gear
I have done a bit of specific low cadence training purely because I wanted to improve my torque and ability to sustain a low cadence incase of a very steep climb during a race. However over the winter I've been using a shit box unaero 12 kg ribble bike and living in Yorkshire my 25 36 cassette as a small juniour has meant that when I got back onto my summer bike my cadence felt slightly uncomfortable considering the fact that in most roads I was at around 10 rpm lower than the summer before so I think low cadence has its place for training for certain specific races, you have to be careful not to over do it with shit gear ratios and little normal cadence training
You could make a comparison to a baseball player who puts a weighted donut on his bat and do some practice swings before getting up to bat Then when coming up to bat removing the donut the bat feels lighter and you may have more control over the bat for a brief moment which batting is mostly brief . I have been riding a smaller cog on my local trails lately to see if going back to my larger cogs I can go faster and I would say yes but like the donut on the bat its a brief benefit . So if your having a race or going after a strava segment there maybe a short term benefit maybe more so psychologically thinking the pedaling is easy in that higher cog . You could also ride a heavier bike or add weight to the bike your ride not unlike weight lifting to gain strength and remove that weight when your ready to race . It would be interesting having a donut type item for a bike to add weight to your bike incrementally like weight lifting
i have done an experiment on my myself, some seasons i have included low cadence and some i haven't, when i have, i have had my best tt. i feel that i can push larger gears. Also, if the pro's do it, there must be a reason. Science usually lags behind what pro's do
Which pros? There are also pros that espouse high cadence lol
The fallacy in what you are saying is that your "experiment" did not include gym work.
Well, i didnt know i needed to write a dissertation. I have already natural thick muscular legs. My sprint is already better than most of my friends. Plenty of power
@@MrBJPitt that’s a false dichotomy; you can do low cadence training intervals and use high cadence regularly.
@@HkFinn83 but my question is still valid - which pros?
Enjoyed every second.
Please!!!Do not dumb down your content.
Perhaps some of your subs should actually study a glossary of terms.
Thoroughly appreciate your contribution to training philosophy.
For the studies indicating that only strength training improved economy, etc (not VO2 max), what strength training activities were used and what was the prescribed workout in terms of % of max lift, sets and repetitions, and how often? You mentioned squats. When I ran as a 400m sprinter. Our leg workouts were squats, deadlifts and weighted step ups twice a week. And then we did plyometrics 1-2 times a week depending upon where in the racing season we were. I have read there is also debate about the efficacy of plyometrics vs weights for improving the same factors you mentioned (along with commentary about which one mitigated injury risk [although I can't remember which actually mitigated the risk!]). Thanks.
Hi, i'm a bit late... In France, coaches say "it's useless to do low cadence grinding if you don't couple it to spinning intervals"... An interval traising I like is : 4-6 x 3' low cadence just below FTP (90-95) - 2' high cadence at a lower intensity (80-85% ftp). Don't know the real benefits, but it's fun !
So glad about the conclusion! I really don't like spinning outside my preferred cadence.
I normally do both, because I wasn't sure which was best Thanks for the info!
Fantastic video. Thanks for this Dylan.
BWHD had me rolling!!! Great job as always to both of you👊👊👊
The rationale behind doing some low-cadence intervals is mainly to improve neuromuscular efficiency. So the work we did in the gym is applied on the bike, what will create some new neurological connections. That is a reason why I personnally think it is useful to do a cool down on the bike at the end of a strength workout. Just to build some "free" nerves. But I doubt this last idea has been backed up by the science.
Also, by doing some long low-cadence intervals (i.e. submaximal strength repetitions), that develops our endurance strength, which is another type of strength focussing directly on our Type I muscle fibers. It won't build some big and strong fibers but it will help to make them more efficient by teaching them to work for a long time.
Johan hit the nail on the head. Also I would add, cadence work affects stroke volume. You'll see Vo2 work done at high cadence as well. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8775571/
To somewhat echo this, low cadence work helped me engage my pedal stroke better. Before I did any I never engaged my glutes, now I do and sustained power has become much more manageable.
After reading Bernard Hinault's book... I took on the challenge. In one year, of 2 years of riding I was dropping cat 2 riders that had 5-10 years, Increased my sprint , TT, and short climbing. My low cadence big gear up hill is key. I use them for HIT workouts. I also use old indoor spin bike where you can cranks the resistance to almost impossible. I must stand to turn the pedals. It strengthens the core muscles... and of course the related CNS and PNS neural pathways. Doing the motion we use in the activity is superior to unrelated heavy weights.
Jeez, Dylan, you are a great source of scientific based information and counselling to the cycling community. Thanks so much for putting together these excellent videos. This video is in line with some sport performance science meta studies that I have recently read. Thanks and blessings!
You earned a subscriber.
As a newbie in cycling, this is helpful.
Zugasti appearing in one of Dylan's videos (3:56) ! My day is complete, I shall not want. PD: nice content as always.
Sería flipante!
Con bicharacos y todo
@@carlosgomezzzzzzz Hehe Pero has visto que sale en este? Ya un cameo más serio pues imagina.. Dylan hablando de ciencia y Zugasti con el cafe aguachirriao
@@joseluisredondogarcia5244 en donde?? En que segundo, es que puse el video pa escucharlo mientras me hacia un café
@@carlosgomezzzzzzz 3:56 creo que son las imagenes de Colina Triste
That was a very interesting video! Thanks Dylan :)
if you're road racer maybe do some mtb riding with some hills in the forest once a week. It's great for getting away and enjoy the outdoors plus you obviously won't go as fast but reaction time gets better in case of a crash in front of you. It's a slower cadence but a great workout and keeps your eyes sharp for looking out for ruts and roots which works your reaction time. Depending on the course you select it could be benificcaly .
Bruh the amount of science in these new youtube fitness videos are amazing
I think the problem here is that not all adaptations are directly about performance improvements per se. The reason that I do low cadence drills is actually to increase core strength - this is the quoted reason that Sufferfest for example includes low-cadence workouts too. Not every workout is directly targeting a short term power increase outcome, which tends to be the only outcome that all these studies actually test for. Using the same metrics you’d have to also write off any kind of skills based or handling work as well as any yoga, flexibility or conditioning work. Additionally, low cadence work may not build as much strength as gym work, but it does so in a highly functional and sport-specific way (on the bike). When you’re crunched for time to train, that seems appealing
The justifications people come up with to suit their preconceived personal beliefs/preferences like that somehow disproves the science never ceases to amaze me! Starting out a comment on a 10min video packed with scientific literature findings with 'I think' or 'I believe' isn't a great start. By your logic, wouldn't the most sport specific form of core training be to train your core by doing your intervals at your actual comfortable/preferred cadence as that is how it has to perform during most of your cycling/racing? Wouldn't spending more time improving the quality of your intervals at that cadence paired with actual quality gym work be more beneficial? That is what all the science tells us but yet, people continually come back with 'nah, I reckon...'!
Exactly. A super low cadence ride on TT bike can easily drain off all my core strength stamina in an hour compare to the higher one.
Observations:
1. Early on in the video- hgh cadence training increased the riders' preferred cadence from 93 to 101,
2. 5:49 73-82% max HR is not hard work, even at 40rpm. IIRC, FTP equates roughly to 90% max HR.
3. 9:02 80rpm is indeed fast, for "low cadence", even if the subjects were "sprinting".
Conclusions:
1. None of the studies, as far as I can see, used loads/speeds which attempted to equate/compare cycling to weight lifting. I would suggest that something like 40-60rpm, at 100-120% FTP, would generate the same loads as lifting the weights in those squat exercises. Of course, one is not going to be able to do lots of it. The duration of such intervals should equate to the same duration as the squats/deadlifts/whatever sessions, for a valid comparison.
2. Power=Torque x Angular Velocity. If you can increase one or both, you win. From the above observations, it seems that polarising cadence, either side of your present preferred cadence, in separate sessions, gives you the best combination: do the sub-60rpm grinds one day then, after recovery days, do the same hill session at 120rpm.
I think I got it. Lunging my singlespeed up a hill is better than actually riding it. :) As always, good video DJ!
Informative video! As a scientist I really appreciate the survey of appropriate references. That said, it always seemed easier to me to push a lot of watts at a relatively low cadence. But that also can cause some wear on the cartilage.... I know!
Great video... so you could also say that higer cadence training is the worst...? It seems like when comparing HC vs LC... some studies LC is a bit better... then LC vs confortable cadence... the LC is not good enough...
I would go to the gym but they're closed because of Covid... Not to mention i dont want to
Exactly my excuse haha
Gyms are closed so I bought some weights.
Its been a week and I still havent used them
ive actually been doing some low cadence intervals wich my training plan has me doing a few times a week, the idea is to not necessarily get the exact benefits as I would from lifting, but since the force is similar it will help prepare my legs for when I do start lifting.
Loved this one Dylan. Thanks for your posts. One area you didn't get into was dealing with steep climbs (above say 10%). For me anyways, I'll be in my lowest gear and won't have the fitness to maintain a high cadence even in my lowest gear. My only options are to either stop pedaling or pedal at a low cadence (below 65 say). So, practicing that I think helps prepare me for those moments. So, maybe it doesn't make me any faster but it sure makes me acclimated to the times when I have no other option.
So, this raises the question of how low cadence intervals differ to hill-repeats? Is a 5 x 4 min session at 350 watts with a cadence of 75 rpm likely to produce the same training stimulus on the flat or on a climb? Same power, same cadence, same duration. Hill-repeats seem to find their way into many training programs, but it seems at best inconclusive whether low-cadence intervals are effective. Thoughts?
So the 75 rpm is your 'natural chosen' cadence? If so, that's not really hi or low speed cadence. Have you ever tried a couple of those at a fixed 35 - 40 rpm?
I came to buy the beast mode and all I got was good advice. Would you please give BH guy some more air time, if they keep listening to you everyone is going to get faster and where does that get us?
So, what you have done was a review paper about low cadence... You should publish that! great job
Great topic and invaluable info which validate my high cadence (hc) intervals curiosity. I think hc also help to on surges/sprints which usually lead to hc.
Totally.
Time Trialists use long big gear intervals in their tempo -sweetspot range to recruit fast twitch fibers and force them to work more "aerobically", reduce their glycolytic capacity and therefore reduce rider's Vlamax. The purpose is to increase FTP being VO2 equal. This seems to be the main purpose pro cyclist do big gear works, rather than to increase strength.
It would be nice to see a video in which you discuss the relationship between VO2max, Vlamax and FTP
Why do you think someone like Egan Bernal includes Low cadenece (45rpmat around @280W) intervals into his training before the TDF? many speculate because of strength training but this video proves that he would be much better of just picking up some weights... What is your opinion on why elite cyclist still do low CAD work at all?
I'll do 3 to 6x30" efforts at 40-50 RPM on a Spinner bike with as much resistance as I can right after a lifting session. The day after I set a new PR for Max power off a standing start (1280W). Clearly optimal adaptation did not occur in 24 hours but I chalk this up to enhancing neuromuscular recruitment and tying in the lifting efforts to the specificity of turning pedals. The rest of the time I like to spin at 90-100.
Dylan, the mass gainer in cupcake flavor is the "bomb"! I am becoming a beast, I practice my squats by getting off the couch, sometimes several times in one day!! Keep the good advice coming, I am sure it will come in handy when I get back on my bike!!
Hi Dylan!
First of all, I really like your approach of evaluating "training wisdom" by looking at the science. However, sometimes it would really help if you asked a coach with a profound knowledge of exercise physiology first, before doing your research. Such a person could have told you, that low cadence training has its place in a training regime, when done in the right way.
I'm talking about longer intervals (3-5x up to 20mins) with a cadence between 40-60rpm at sweet-spot intensity, preferably uphill.
Because of the lower cadence, more force is needed to produce the power and therefore more type II fibers are recruited. During the longer intervals the type II fibers are especially stressed and are likely to fatigue. This forces the muscle fibers to use their oxidative abilities to produce energy and adaptation will happen. This effect can be promoted with restricted carb consumption (train low).
I'm not entirely sure, if there is research in cycling about this, but definitely in other endurance sports!
Do you have links to that research? TIA
@@SettleNow No, I don't think so. However I saw that I included the following link in my notes about this topic:
www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Training-Fast-Twitch-Muscle-Fibers-%3A-Why-and-How-Maglischo/60cb52ee31f9b9b02f1a1e51a8974bdaa47a4128?p2df
I think this explains the physiology of muscle fibers.
As noted in other comments, this kind of training reduces the VLamax. Because this parameter was (and still is) hard to measure, there is not much research about the effect of training programs on VLamax.
I hope I could help.
@@philipskotzke I was going to ask that question too. There has been a lot of talk about lowering the VLamax by causing a muscle fiber type shift doing low cadence work at around SweetSpot. There are studies showing that the shift is possible. People like Sebastian Weber and Dan Lorang are talking about it in the "that triathlon show" podcast.
And also...one important thing about cadence for me is...You can train to be better at a higher cadence, for example, equally efficient on 95rpm, as on 85 rpm before. And if power stays the same, you are using less power, less strain, less push on each revolution. Ergo, saving your knees, ligamets and have faster recovery.
My workout:
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I do this in the spring, coming off the winter weight session.
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I have a moderately steep hill that takes about 3 minutes to climb.
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I start in the small ring up front (road bike), and the 4th-ish easiest gear in back. I go up once in this gear.
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Hop back down, shift up one gear, go up again.
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Will do 5-6 trips up the hill, shifting up one gear each time.
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I do this 1-2 times a week, for 4-6 weeks in the spring.
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By the time I get to the last week, I am pushing the 53x25 for all 5-6 trips up the hill.
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It really does convert strength built in the gym onto the bike. But as I get further into spring, and the miles build up, I stop doing this workout as it takes it's toll. But as the workout only takes 45 minutes-ish, it's a really efficient way to get strength early season.
There is nothing strange that low cadence work does not gives benefits of the gym. Simple math (metric, but you can do it for lb-ft). 300W at 50rpm is ~57Nm. 57Nm at 175mm crank gives 327N, so around 33kg of force. So it is similar, for 70kg rider, to squats with 20-25kg additional weight (assuming during squat you are lifting ~65-70% of your weight). So it is rather similar to warmup for serious lifting routine, than the proper gym work.
Simple math FTW!
Did 70-75 rpm training in the base period in Z2 Z3 every other day for 1.5 to 3 hrs plus gym work. Made me a better cyclist and actually won a race or two. With the new gear ratios seems to be no need to ride at lower cadence to simulate climbing which I did since I lived in the flats. Strength training has another benefit people don't think about which is weight loss or maintance for the working athlete who might otherwise just do boring spin work on a trainer in the winter.
Great information. To look further at the point of finding your ideal cadence then one must take gear selection into account. Simply changing chainring size can drastically alter natural cadence... but how to you find your optimal gearing? Hmmm...
An anecdotal story that might be worth looking up. I race ocean kayaks competitively and there was an article a number of years ago in SA Paddler about how the South African Olympic team destroyed their own results in (I think) the Beijing olympics by doing a ton of resistance training. (Essentially dragging objects. Much like bigger gears lower cadence) They attributed their abysmal results directly to that training. Instead my other buddy who was an Olympic kayaker and now trains his wife a Hungarian team paddler (multiple Olympic medalist) use weight in the boat so as not to disturb the motion of the paddle stroke. Maybe that would be better for cycling as well.
Can you answer this question though: If an athlete has a superior vo2 max, does this person benefit with high cadence? Able to use more oxygen to the muscles and less waste? You see the elite's spin the fastests...aka chris froome, and others.
Hey I am going in (hopefully not too rude) and say I think he / the research answered that - it depends on what feels best for you (i.e. what you train for). Froome and others (L.A.) with really high cadence train that way.
Essentially...yes. Spinning stresses the cardio system relatively more, grinding the muscles.
@@thomasprehn no offence to you or the uploader but if you look at these studies and you have any experience in academia, they’re obvs of limited use
What about slalom cone drills and figure eights and bottle pick up shoulder bumping and bunny hop drills? Do those improve my…… something?
Dylan, great vid as always. Science-centric, well presented, and moments of levity. But- I feel you left out discussing the most obvious scenario on whether MTIs/low cadence high power intervals could be useful: in conjunction with a strength training phase, NOT in lieu of it, ie as an added source of adaptations. Reason that wasn’t covered?
Was waiting for that promo code. Thought I wouldn't get my training substitute this week
Doing squats completely changed my cycling performance.
As always, a great video!
It might be too specific for a video, but I would be curious to see a video on handlebar width! In terms of aerodynamics, control (MTB/Road), and cardiovascular impingement.
Basically, I want to hear if backwards-cap Dylan recommends 35cm track bars for my gravel bike.
Brett Sutton, arguably the most successful triathlon coach, recommends low cadence 'strength' training for the bike... He has some good blog posts about it... although you may describe the samples as too small, or cycling 180km in the tt position, saving yourself for the run as not being 'representative of cycling' ;-)
Love the videos! I would love to ask what the difference is between Threshold training and Sweetspot training and if the research regarding Threshold training is actually referring to Sweetspot or something else?
I think that low cadence training is beneficial to train all the different fibers as opposed to just the high cadence ones. On a fast group ride where someone is barely able to hang on because of aerobic limitations, being able to drop down to low 80's cadence and get the heart rate down a bit is very beneficial... One is also able to go faster with less effort when the proper muscle fibers are properly trained. Obviously, if the person I described on the group ride has not trained low cadence, it will not be as beneficial... Personally, in time trials, I increased my average speed by 1.5 MPH after working on the 70-80 cadence range instead of just doing 95-105 all the time. When a person can switch between both cadences, they can vary which fibers are being used and stretch their potential kind of like having clipless pedals that allow a person to vary which muscle groups they use instead of continuously mashing with flat pedals.. One other helpful thing to know would be exactly what weight training exercises would be considered the correct ones in terms of muscle loading in relation to pedaling... To just say "weight training" doesn't help the average rider that much IMO.
It certainly worked for me. I did ride a mtb that had a 38x32 lowest gear for about a month, just doing 1 hour lunch rides. Which previously I did for months on a bike that went all the way to 28x42. After that one month, I got into spectacular form, riding KOMs that were just impossible before. Is it just that I went harder mashing that big gear? Probably yes. But would I go that deep if I could just bail out on an easy gear? Probably not.
Hey. If you are looking for video ideas maybe explore low fodmap dieting. It’s really interesting and can be beneficial to a lot of people