What do YOU think the correct order for MCI, Charlie, CC, and Elizabeth are? Join our growing community on discord! discord.gg/azPjrGGdBY Timestamps: 00:00 Preheating 00:28 A Brief Recap on what we know about the beginning of the timeline 07:08 What are the necessary prerequisites for the timeline events? 09:15 What does Help Wanted 2 tell us about the Missing Child Incident? 13:01 Why can't the MCI happen first? 16:11 What does the FNAF timeline look like if the MCI happens first? 21:07 How could the MCI lead to Charlotte Emily? 23:13 What does Fall Fest have to do with the FNAF timeline? 23:59 The new FNAF timeline after Help Wanted 2 26:47 Letting it cool
One thought I have for crying child, what if he was Henry’s kid, being watched by William. Would that explain the “wound first inflicted on me” line? Maybe they’re not blood brothers, but grew up like brothers since their dad’s worked together. The books often mentions Charlie had a twin (the girl’s room from fnaf4)
You know I just found interesting? Both Crying Child and Charlotte died due to a group of bullies. Neither group may have dealt the killing blows but their cruelty had a hand in their deaths. It's an interesting parallel (is that the right word??).
it's interesting that now the Bonnie Bro character (the bully wearing the blue bonnie mask in the fnaf 4 cutscene where CC gets bitten) might be brought back as a character for the franchise (and potentially the protagonist of help wanted 2). what became of the bullies who locked out charlie? did they find out that eventually their bullying led to her death? would they be treated to some kind of supernatural retaliation?
You know I just found interesting? Both crying child and Charlotte died due to a group of bullies. Neither group may have dealt the killing blows but their cruelty had a hand in their deaths. For real life.
I see nothing wrong with this theory the end is very satisfying I wish however fnaf didn’t put as many wrinkles into things we thought for the longest time to be 100% correct
With Fall Fest being brought up more and more (AND in two different years) it makes sense to me that it would represent an important even in the timeline. “Hint for carnival” seems like it’s about that. I agree that it’s early enough to either be a “kickstarter incident”, when Afton gets motive, or backstory of how the business first started. That’s not even mentioning Sun/Moon’s possible role!
I really really hope they end up doing a game on Fallfest. Or maybe even a canon novel or something. This is such a pipe dream but imagine if they released a game on William's backstory and solved the game? Like imagine a FNAF game releasing and the marketing is like ''This will solve the lore'', everyone would go crazy for that game and it'd probably be a bestselling game.
@@novustalks7525 True, it's honestly the fact that I'm kinda done with this series. Like I love FNaF But Scott is just a shit writer who can't figure his story out. I always used to sympathize with him because obviously he didn't expect it to blow up and had to rush a story but he's had time to remake it yet keeps fucking it up.
Maybe the code 1983 to get the puppet poppet (hehe) is meant to connect two events. It could be trying to tell us that Charlie's death was directly connected to Crying Child's death as an act of revenge by William, much like how MatPat suggested in his big timeline theory. It's either that, or saying she also died in 1983 the same year as the crying child, which opens tha can of worms again.
@@ruben0222I mean it's better then him doing it for no reason, I'm open to CC being in coma but technically still alive until the MCI occurs but not after because it makes his character completely pointless and makes Afton being a father some throw away plotline, I would be fine with a soulless evil Afton but after sister location I kinda think it's incredibly unsatisfying.
or...and this is probably false. That the kid having nightmares is charlie. Only evidence behind this is the image of a girl in the fnaf 4 bed in SB lol
@@ruben0222 yeah I feel as though that would be too much I really hope we get confirmation sometime soon about the specifics as the marathon death theory or whatever you wanna call it was debunked years ago with the books and not it's come right back up again
Yea, it feels weird that they'd put the Puppet Poppet behind a 1983 code if its not meant to imply something about the timeline there. Its practically begging for the connection to be made. I know its a meme to say "Scott doesn't do coincidences", but it would be very clumsy with how likely this community is to take that as a connection.
I think that "a wound first inflicted upon me" was 100% leading towards Charlie's death, especially because of how important she was to Henry's arc and FFPS. Fall Fest's connection in this timeline is interesting but not very substantial, as William committing arson and killing 5 children over his characters seems kinda wild. It was still an interesting theory, and I think that the gravestones were there intentionally but just don't make much sense in the grand scheme of things.
14:16 I would like to say that during Henry’s speech in fnaf6 he says this about his daughter “No one was there to lift you up in their arms. The way you lifted others into yours.” Which is interesting because Henry doesn’t know about the happiest day, meaning he can only be talking about give gifts, give life. So this is very well evidence that Charlie died before the MCI
I see what you mean, but remember the MCI kids couldn't give life because their bodies were never found. They themselves were lost, so that is why there was no one there to lift up Charlie. But, Charlie's body was found so she would be the one to lift up the others. If anything it seems like evidence to support this theory. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
…how does that mean charlie was first though if anything the use of past tense indicates that the mci happened first lol. ‘no one was there to lift you up into their arms (charlies death), the way you liftED others into yours (mci)’
Couldn't he... just be talking about when she was alive and even though she was being bullied, she still offered kindness to others? As victims of bullying will often do?
(Edit: finished the video now and this still works. Thanks for the comment ❤️) I think that when Henry says about the wound first inflicted on him, he is talking about knowing his child is dead. The other victims are the MISSING Childrens Incident, so their parents still had that hope that theyd see their kids again, but Henry never had that hope. He just had grief, a wound first inflicted on him.
@@SubZero-hs9xcme when I use no evidence to disprove the counter argument or elaborate on my theory and simply use a basic phrase of disagreement instead:
Great theory. I like the timeline. William is shown to be a narcissist at least, a psychopath at worst, in his book portrayals. It doesn't take losing a child to set a psychopath off and setting fires is part of their escalation quite often. So, jealousy is an excellent motive for the fire. It doesn't take losing a child to trigger a psychopath to kill just pressure/stress of some kind. Honestly, I think the insistence that William was normal before CC is just romanticised by the fandom who want to try and understand a narcissist/psychopath through the lens of normal eyes. They want attention and thrills. I've often thought maybe his wife divorcing/leaving him was the trigger that sent him over the edge since narcissists are all about public image. Imagine him then being overshadowed by Henry once they merge after that would be a little too much for him to handle. I like the idea that his first act would've been arson.
Totally agree, I feel like the fandom wants so badly for William to be a man driven mad by the grief of losing his son that they're failing to see he murdered a bunch of kids, he was always messed up, he didn't need a singular loss or moment of grief to drive him over the edge. I think people want the narrative satisfaction of "family man driven to madness" but I just don't think that's the story here.
I think his wife divorces after CC's death. In the Midnight Motorist minigame, there's a person watching tv on the couch who tells him not to bother who I presume to be Mike. William doesn't listen however and checks the window. So no wonder she divorced him, drunk father who desperately wants to get into son's room to beat him up or something isn't a relationship or a family you want to be a part of. But that also makes her a bad parent, she left her eldest son and daughter to the hands of her drunk and angry husband.
I've always felt that William's motivation was in large part, the personal part besides the mad scientist stuff, is jealousy of Henry. Henry being more "human" than he is and with more spark to him. I think he killed Charlotte to bring Henry down to his level.
his obsession with Henry in the books that goes between hating him and worshipping him as an idol is a huge hint to me. That was his ORIGINAL characterization, so I still feel it's really important.
To be honest, I follow so many FNAF creators these days that even if you were milking this game I wouldn't even notice. I can't remember the upload schedules of everyone, so your videos get lost in the sea of FNAF content and every new upload always comes as a surprise haha! Keep up the good work!
I really appreciate the considerate way you talk about contested or controversial theories. It is always easy to completely bash alternate theories, but you manage to both support your own conclusions while acknowledging other options. Theorists like you keep this community fun and collaborative! PS I like this take on the timeline and using new games to constantly examine long held beliefs :)
Considering how little we actually know about Henry in game canon, "a wound first inflicted upon me" doesn't necessarily mean his daughter's death. If anything, the fact that he built the security puppet naturally suggest that something has happened for him to be concerned about his daughter's safety, so her death couldn't be first and the line is referring to something else, possibly at this fall festival that seemingly burns down.
Well, looks like it was brought up at the end of the video. Still, with how often bears pops up in Henry's designs, would think Afton has a stronger bond with Bonnie.
Or he could just be a protective father making sure his daughter is safe while he's busy working. Charlie literally has to die first, since she gives life to the missing children through the animatronics. We see this happen in the FNAF 2 minigame "Give Gifts, Give Life". We were right the first time, let's not dwell on things we have already solved.
@@treyvonlavell7334 I think if this new theory is going to work, the MCI has to happen, then the Puppet happened, and THEN their remnant was put in the suits.
@@treyvonlavell7334 Except Chica literally says she was first while people are just assuming that about Charlie. There's also stories now that show that spirits need to find their bodies, so the MCI can still be first then Charlie comes later and help them gain "life" by leading them to their bodies in the animatronics.
Well yeah, CC being first is one of the truely confirmed things IMO; if its not none of this story even remotely adds up. But whys all of it happening in 1983 ‘wild’? Multiple locations clearly exist during that year. Theres at least one freddys but that cast of animatronics clearly arent at fredbears. so CC would die at fredbears, william would go to freddys and cause the mci there, causing henry to make security puppet & monitor bracelets, then finally william eventually returns and unalives charlie
@@echo_z319 i mean the fact that so many deaths happen in the same year is very strange in my head, especially since Fazbear Entertainment just opened up. While there is certainly some evidence of it, it's not too convinient in terms of worldbuilding (like, Steel Wool probably has many of them so they must have a motivation to change the dates all of a sudden)... As a writer myself it sounds pretty strange that a serial killer and a brand such as Fazbear Entertainment associated with the death 7 children in a short period of time can actually get away with it and then reopening many years later (even if for just some weeks). I think what we are missing is the context of all of this... Which really falls down into the "Fallfest" theme, let's just hope that Steel Wool will cook for the next game as they did for this one 🤞
Honestly, I think its very likely that Charlie's death was before CCs. That's pretty much the most likely explanation of midnight motorist. The game takes place after Charlie's death. The guy on the couch is dressed in the same gray shirt as Mike, he talks in gray like Mike and he watches TV like Mike. Mike is the couch potato. If William is mustard man and couch potato is Mike then the runaway child must be CC.
I rock with this. Like I said before, you and NotReal have a knack for coming up with alternate realities within what we know and as always, what we know can always change on the fly. That's the best and worst thing about FNAF. To me, the order of events doesn't really matter. As long as my Baby Girl Charlie still gets to help the MCI kids and Evan(and the possible DCI kids from FNAF 2) get their Happiest Day and their Rest, as long as William Afton himself stays in UCN, it's all good. There's more than one way to get the right answers.
Awesome video and theory, always appreciate Rye's ideas. Also just wanted to say how much I appreciated their discussion of the poppet dolls - it seems very well researched and I think explains them very well. I say this because seeing the dolls in HW2 being described as 'voodoo dolls' by MatPat seemed misrepresentative of the dolls in general. So yeah very much appreciate Rye's research and discussion of them which manages to avoid any stereotypes/misconceived ideas.
@@madamplatypus313 Aha chill, imagine calling people butthurt when they just say thank you & appreciate someone's research. It's called being kind, you may not be familiar with that. Maybe use some critical thinking before making a daft comment. Smh.
Yeah, to be fair, the game is still pretty new overall and many people (matpat included) are still going over the game to find more clues rather than going deep into what they already have, I guess, which is why the dolls keep getting referred to as "voodoo dolls" than what they actually are, since they look like "standard creepy little dolls". The fnaf community is always one to dig deep, so I'm sure people will start referring to them as poppet dolls soon enough. It's really cool of Rye to put out a theory that's already well researched this fast already! The praise is well deserved 👏
I personally think it’s a lot more satisfying for Charlie to be the first victim of William after the death of CC. It lines up with Henry’s speech (which is far too important to ignore imo) plus it allows her to “give gift, give live” to the MCI victims. As for why she’s the last grave we light I think it’s symbolic. Charlie has always been depicted as being separate from the MCI victims since FNaF 2. William kills her while she’s outside an establishment not wearing his iconic yellow rabbit suit. We also see her buried at the top of the hill in Pizza Sims gravestone ending, overlooking the MCI victims. She’s the first to die and the last one to rest, not till William is gone permanently. It’s why we see the Nightmarionne plushies scattered everywhere.
Henrys speech could be referring to the reason security puppet/security bracelets were made. It doesnt really make sense to make sure another bite doesnt happen by giving kids monitor bracelets. There are much more logical ways to make sure they dont get too close to springlock robots. This could be an argument for the MCI happening first; the location of every child in the building can be monitored consistently to ensure it doesnt happen again. Plus if charlie died before the main 5 it wouldnt make sense for the 5 to go missing in the first place since the bracelets would still be in use; Unless the 5 were the actual reason the bracelets were made. So its most likely bite of 83 > MCI shortly after > Charlies deaths shortly after > give gifts give life right after > location shutdown
@@echo_z319 What “wound” would have been inflicted onto Henry if MCI happened first? CC was William’s son and it doesn’t seem the MCI victims have any connection to the Afton’s or Emily’s aside from being killed by William. As we see in the Security Puppet minigame its goal is to make sure a certain “assigned child” doesn’t reach the exit the building, that being a kid wearing a green bracelet, a color we only see Charlie wearing. I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say it was made to protect Charlie first and foremost. Also at the end the Security Puppet gets destroyed when it goes into the rain and is then possessed by Charlie. Don’t see why they’d continue to use it, especially as it seems the location would shut down after two major deaths and Freddy Fazbear being way more popular than Fredbear Family Diner. Even if the Security Puppet was still somehow in use we know from the High School Chica segments in UCN (still can’t believe those are a real thing) that most of William’s victims where lured to the Pizzeria after hours, so they likely weren’t wearing bracelets as they weren’t in the Pizzeria
@@AlexDayz ‘A wound first inflicted on me, one that i let bleed out to cause all of this’-This is either referring to the MCI or charlies death. Post-MCI: Henry develops security puppet and monitor bracelets to monitor where all children are in the building to ensure it doesnt happen again. This clearly becomes irrelevant due to charlie dying, which leads to her giving life to the children, letting the rest of the story play out. Even though william and henry had a partnership it was still henrys company at the end of the day; the mci would be his wound, one that he couldnt properly take care of which leads to everuthing else charlies death: pretty much the exact same thing, just referencing charlie specifically and not the MCI. Also those cutscenes were most likely referring to the kidnapped/dead children incident in the new and improved location. The newspapers for the MCI confirmed the kids were in the building & lured to a backroom. Plus why would william just randomly decide to go running around kidapping kids around town when he can just do it at freddys at this time? He couldnt during the DCI due to the toy animatronics security, meaning it makes more sense for him to kidnap the second five mentioned in the cutscenes and lure the first 5 who were already in a pizzeria
Also of course puppet prioritizes charlie lol. Henry built it. Charlie is his daughter. Thats the most logical thing to do; but that doesnt change the fact the rest of the kids have bracelets too meaning theyre also being monitored. + it doesnt matter if puppet was ‘still being used’ after her death or not; thats irrelevant to this theory. Shes still possessing it and she still gave life to the kids, and eitherway it was still eventually reused in the 1987 location.
@@echo_z319 I’m not too caught up on the books but isn’t it heavily implied that it’s William who buys out Henry’s company? Whether you believe Tales to be 100% in the games or parallels it’s still canon, so the MCI being his “wound” wouldn’t make much sense imo. Not to mention who would it have “spread” to? The five kids killed in FNaF 2 (to my knowledge) don’t go on to posses any animatronics and the only ones around during Pizza Sim are fragments of the MCI in Ennard/Molten Freddy, Elizabeth, and Charlie. Sure he could just be referring to Charlie but it seems odd to refer to your own daughter as “others”. The High School Chica cutscenes are clearly meant for the MCI. We see in Fruity Maze that William uses the same dog tactic with Susie, the first victim in the MCI, so the other methods are for the other victims with Cassidy’s being the worst. All the FNaF 1 newspapers do is say “Two local children were reportedly lured into a back room during the late hours of operation at Freddy Fazbear’s Pizza”, it doesn’t necessarily say they where customers or in the building. It’s also good to remember Scott did not have the whole story planned out during FNaF 1 as it was meant to be his last game, so it’s better to rely on newer information. Not saying they’re not important, just that some details may have changed in more recent games. As for the DCI, he definitely could’ve done it in the building. He was using the Golden Bonnie suit and the Toy animatronics were made for facial recognition which the suit obscures. Regardless though their deaths are surprisingly unremarkable lore-wise as (again to my knowledge) they didn’t posses anything, only ruin the reputation of Freddy’s even more.
I think your explanation makes the most sense, but I do want to throw something out just to see what people think. In the books, Charlotte has a twin who she thinks got taken. Sammy. But as Afton says, he never did. It was her. While it's probable Sammy just never existed (or at least never effected anything) in the games, it's also possible that he died/was killed before anyone. Maybe at the Fall Fest, even. So he would be the first wound inflicted, then the MCI, then Charlotte, then CC, then Elizabeth.
At this point I think Scott should straight up confirm everything about the lore before Help Wanted 1 (because that’s where the new Fnaf story is starting at has barely even started yet) there are so many good timelines that contradict each other and have equally valid points.
I’ve been thinking about the timeline a lot lately and I’m in agreement with your sequence of events (although I’m pretty certain Circus Baby’s Pizza World comes between the closing of Freddy’s and the opening of the FNaF 2 location). I don’t think the Puppet has to come first, I think she’s just responsible for the possession of the animatronics. I’ve been digging into the Candy Cadet stories, and I think that two of them reference events of the Give Life minigame. The first Candy Cadet story tells about a young woman who can save one child, but ends up condemning five to their deaths. There aren’t any characters in the franchise who are ever given an opportunity to save any of the children (Henry doesn’t appear to be truly aware of the nature of events until after Sister Location, Michael and Charlotte were children and also don’t have any evidence pointing to their ability to save anyone from their actual deaths), so I believe that this is a reference to Charlotte’s potential ability to help a child pass on to the afterlife. The trouble being: Charlotte is still a child and can’t think of a way to help a child pass on without passing on herself, only ever being able to save one. I think she uses the memories of the children together, instead of individually-which would help them move on-to give “life” to the children through the animatronics, but it doesn’t work like that, and the only thing she has unlocked are five deaths, forged together for eternity. I also think the last Candy Cadet story talks about Give Life, but then goes on to talk about Follow Me. The Puppet fits the bill for someone who gives toys (gifts, prizes) to children, loves bringing joy, and who shepherds orphans that don’t have anyone else. The characterization in the story implies that after their deaths, the children are actually happy together, until that happiness is shattered by tragedy. A villain enters the scene and kills them all-like in Follow Me. Henry talks about why this is so obscene in the Insanity Ending: William is luring the children AGAIN, overpowered them AGAIN, and depriving them of the only body they have AGAIN. But the Candy Cadet story doesn’t end there. I think the story implies that Charlotte is the one responsible for either Ennard or the Tangle, possibly both. The protagonist of the story stitches the remnants of the children together (five things becoming one, plus the Puppet) before there’s a knock at the door (implying the stitched entity is still alive?) I think that not only does it make sense for Charlotte to be coming into the story later, I think it’s a better story if Charlotte enters an already tragic scene, tries to make things better only for William to strike back with more tragedy. Then the Puppet does what she knows how to do- give life to what she can. As a side note: I’m pretty sure that the remaining Candy Cadet story is about Elizabeth and Baby: a red pet project, practically just a hungry animal, set loose to choose a child at random, but picks a child that the owner regrets (Elizabeth). After some time, the regret is enough for the owner to kill and scrap the pet project for the sake of the child, putting her back together (which is how Michael describes his task in Sister Location)
I always thought it this way. C.C dies crushed by Fredbear. William blames Henry for the Springlock failures, killing Charlie out of spite. The security Puppet gets to her and the storm merges Charlie and The Puppet. William discovered how that robot was able to work even broken and realised he could find a way to get his son "back together" in a robot form. In order to to this, he starts experimenting by stuffing corpses inside of animatronics. His other goal was to ruin Fazbear's reputation because Henry left him to work with their competition. He left the Springbonnie suit in the safe room from the 85 pizzeria. The bodies were discarded but their souls merged with the metal, specially the endos. Now the animatronics hunted down any adult they come close with. Also he reprogrammed the Toy models to do the same (maybe even with some Mimic AI involved) The second Freddy's closes in 1987. In the 90's Michael Afton looking for answers gets a job in a new but abandoned Freddy's location. The robots think he's their killer, except for one soul a soul of redemption who is fighting with another who's vengeful and furious. The establishment closes shortly after, and William decides to put an end to his creations, by destroying the original band, but keeping left Puppet and Golden. He used all the Remnant infused metal to create special animatronics, not made for entertainment but made for experimentation. But this time he made sure to warn her daughter of the dangerous stuff he was doing who was his favourite kid but her mother kept the custody till she died. The Funtimes were born, and before they could start their first show, Elizabeth got closer to Baby, and her protocol activated, to catch her. Unfortunately, Baby's body malfunctioned and killed Elizabeth inside of her. Something she wasn't meant to. William once again frustrated decided to return for the last pieces for his experiment, Charlie. But he was confronted by the souls of the missing children, scared to death he put the old and moisten rabbit suit he used to wear, just right in time to have one of the worst deaths in fiction. The Funtimes are a mixture of an advanced AI made by William to work as killer machines and Remnant that made them "alive". Hand Unit was preprogrammed, nobody actually hired any of the Funtimes to perform, which is why they want to leave the bunker.
23:58 are we just going to ignore the fact that Lefty is just a reskinned Rockstar Freddy? In fact, Carnie is closer in design to Rockstar Freddy than Lefty. So it would make more sense to try to make a connection between the Rockstar Freddy and Carrie
Great theory! It also makes sense regarding the order of the games (FNAF1 - MCI, FNAF2 - Charlotte, FNAF 4 - CC, SL - Elizabeth), and link FNAF4 to SL. Like, William says "I'll put you back together" to CC, so he creates the SL animatronics and learns about remnant, thus the child kindapping and the child faces in the SL bunker. At first putting CC after the first 6 was weird to me, but you have really compelling arguments to back it up to be fair... It might be the new agreed timeline
Unless the literal main villain of the story that theyve put so much effort into is only an ‘evil just to be evil’ character, there is no reason for the mci to happen first. Its either CC > MCI > Charlie > Elizabeth or a nonsensical incoherent story
I’m okay with MCI coming before Charlotte’s death, but it still feels weird to place CC after *both* of those. CC could technically be placed anywhere in the early timeline but works best as the first event because, like you said, it’s a tragedy. Since CC isn’t represented by any of the graves, I feel like we can still place his death first in the timeline, especially since we now know Charlotte was most likely killed at a Freddy’s. EDIT: Just thought of this, but it feels weird for the Freddy’s locations to have Golden Freddy unless Fredbear’s has already closed by the time of the MCI.
Nah, if the order is CC > mci > charlie then its not weird. That would mean all of these events happened within a few days or weeks of eachother in 1983. Fredbear would bite CC at the diner, then william would go to freddys and unalive cassidy who would be stuffed into that version of golden freddy theres definitely multiple different versions of fredbear and springbonnie across locations because of the fnaf 3 phone call, fredbears parts and service room, design differences between nightmare fredbear/withered golden freddy etc
To me it’ll just always make the most sense if Charlie dies before the MCI because of Henry’s speech and because if Charlie possessed the Puppet before the MCI, it gives William a motive for the MCI, to study the weird possession stuff
Exactly why I believe CC has to die first. He is William's motivation. After his death, Afton spirals, kills Charlie in his grief and drunken rage. Charlie then revives the children after Afton decided to ruin Henry's reputation via MCI. And when he became a security guard in the FNAF 2 location he saw that the animatronics move on their own. This gives him hope that his son could live. Which is why he dismantled the 4 og animatronics (I believe that when we play as the ghost child in the Follow Me minigame it takes place long after he dismantles them). It fails successfully, he created the Funtimes, but they were aggressive. He made beasts, not children. But success would later come when Elizabeth dies. Sure she died, but the fact she possessed Baby proved Afton right. So he goes back to the location to collect more remnant but not before he tells Mike to find his sister in his bunker. Then William gets springlocked and Michael is scooped soon after. See, it makes sense.
@@raphaelapolinario8111i more in the side of afton always psychopath, he beats elizabeth in the books, put mike in sl bunker to be killed, used fear gas to experiment with his little son
But think about the security puppet minigame. Why would over the top monitor bracelets and an entire robot designed for security exist (before charlies death) just to make sure another bite doesn’t happen? The bracelets monitor where every child in the building is. The mci happened due to children being lured to a place in the building they shouldn’t be. Afton doesnt need the motive of ‘studying possession’ at this point; hes deranged AND lost a child to henry’s creation. Hes going to ruin the places reputation, unexpectedly be able to murder his daughter, and start his own new company AND THEN expirement with posession after realising why henrys location shut down in the first place (puppet stuffed the bodies in the suits shortly after charlies death)
I think that Charlotte was killed the same night as the MCI. Her body was the 1st found so Henry believed he was the 1st. Also Henry does have a flare for the dramatic. Also I think William mistook Cassidy for Charlotte that’s why she was the one you should not have killed. It’s possible the other kids weren’t random and were all children of investors ala Bons Burgers but Cassidy was an innocent kid with no relation to the franchise. That’s why Charlotte death was so rushed and out in the open. William in his rage/murder filled state didn’t realise it until he was about to leave and noticed Charlotte on her own in the dark rainy evening panicked and took her as far as his car killed her and left her there since he had no suits left to stuff
Oooh Cassidy being mistaken for Charlie is super interesting! It would also add to Charlotte’s sense of responsibility/protectiveness for the kids spirits, as it could stem from both this and the fact that the victims seem to be innocent bystanders of Afton’s “revenge” on her father
Something to keep in mind Henry in that speech referencing Charlotte being the first wound is speaking about is how they kids were killed and fused to the animatronics. Charlotte was the first of Williams victims to possess and trapped inside an animatronic. Also something we don't talk about a lot. Elizabeth is completely absent in the CC minigames in FNAF4, there definitely implication that Elizabeth is already dead. I genuinely believe that William discover Remnant through his daughter possessing baby. The timeline that makes the most sense: -William kills the MCI kids, stuffs their body in animatronics -William kills Charlie in revenge against Henry -Charlie possess the puppet and shepherds the souls of MCI kids to their bodies allowing them to possess the animatronics -William builds the fun time minigames to trap and kill more kids which leads to Elizabeth's death -William realizes that his daughter is possessing Baby and begins experimenting on Remnant -Crying Child is accidently killed by Michael Afton -William promises to bring CC back using his experiments with Remnant -William realizes the FNAF animatronics are possessed and attempts to trap and dismantle them to continue his experiments on remnant -The MCI Kids corner William and William gets springlocked
12:26 I like how people have read this line in 3 different ways, and no one can agree on how many of them are true as they can all co-exist. 1. Layer 1, Chica/Susie was the first to go in the Missing Children's Incident(most people agree on this, but some people who take Pizza Party super literally insist it's Freddy/Gabriel) 2. Layer 2, the MCI came first(heavily disputed for every reason mentioned in this video 3. Layer 3, Chica was literally THE oldest animatronic of them all(Not backed by a ton of evidence, but it's a popular fan theory that Chica was originally part of thee Mediocre Melodies, and that whatever their original location was(run by Henry, not William) came first.(Probably at least 1972/73 based on Phone Guys lines in FNAF 1)
Crying child dying was an accident. As a form of revenge, William makes the fun times so that he can kill charlotte emily while having it also look like an accident. However it backfired when Elizabeth is killed instead. Seeing this, Henry creates the puppet Out of revenge and desperation William just straight up murders charlotte outside the restaurant. MCI then happens afterwards as William starts seeing the effects the previous deaths have had on the animatronics. I’d also say Cassidy’s death could fit either before or after charlotte without much changing. This works the best to me because it works with Henry’s speech about it about a wound first inflicted on him. CC and Elizabeth’s deaths were accidents, but then charlotte is the first intentional murder.
As someone who is Wiccan, thank you for research on the poppet dolls and the simple fact that they are supposed to be for positive rituals, not negative. I've seen some other fnaf youtubers and fans call them "voodoo dolls" or try to make the dolls themselves out to be a bad thing all together. It's such a small gesture to have your religion respected, but you did your research and pointed out the stereotypes in media and that made me smile. : )
Rye really is so wholesome and does their best to respect others. I’m so happy for you that you found a place your religion is respected and accurately shown! I hope that this information being shown and respected here can help teach others.
The old timeline, where it's CC first, then Charlie, then MCI, then DCI and then Elizabeth could still work. Hell even Elizabeth being before MCI or between MCI and DCI could work. It all comes down to how you read the gravestones. I think I am aligning more with Fuhnaff's reading of that sequence; it's not who died first, but who got put to rest first.
I have a bit of a theory on C.C. (Crying Child) that I've had in the back of my mind for awhile and would like some thoughts on. The horrific thing C.C. saw was a springlock failure. I always found it odd that C.C. didn't really seem to be scared of the animatronics in general, rather just the yellow springlock suits, and out of the nightmare variations of the originals, only Nightmare Fredbear had a stomach mouth, rather than all of them. I believe that C.C. saw someone putting on the Freabear springlock suit, but for one reason or another, ends up getting springlocked and dying, with C.C. misinterpreting it as Fredbear eating someone whole though his stomach. He tries to tell someone about what he saw, but no one believes him, with everyone (particularly Michael) saying he's just being irrational. William, knowing what C.C. actually saw, uses this to his advantage and creates the nightmares, manipulating his son into being more fearful of the animatronics to get him to stay away from them (which we all know how that turns out). Side note, I've always found it odd that there were nightmare versions of Freddy, Bonnie, Chica, Foxy, and even Freadbear, yet not one of Spring-Bonnie (the closest we get to that being Plushtrap). I've always wondered if that was always an intentional detail, seeming how it kind of lines up with the next bit. Assuming C.C. died before Charlie, it would make more sense as to why William even kills Charlie in the first place. It's implied (in the books I believe) that William had always been jealous of Henry, one second comparing him to the devil, and praising him like a god the next. Now angry and bitter that his youngest son died to Fredbear (Henry's creation/suit), he blamed Henry for his son's early death and would make Henry suffer the pain of losing someone they cared about.
spoiler theory Wild theory here, but just a thought. The possible order we are presented with for the kids' deaths if you take the tombstones literally when we unlock the Bonnie mask are: 0 Chica/Susie, 1 Foxy/Fritz, 2 Freddy/Gabriel, 3 Bonnie/Jeremy, 4 Golden Freddy/Cassidy, 5 Puppet/Charlotte. Hear me out. What if the puppet, with what we know now about a mimic ai program, connecting net of thinking and masks and the story as it stands now, gave these kids masks? I always thought it weird that whenever we see the foxy mask kid in the house, his eyes are just black dots. But when we see all the kids in the pizza place carrying crying child, they have white dots for eyes. That's the standard "I'm possessed" eyes, or even with the Fredbear plush it's "Im controlled by something else" eyes. As far back as I know in the first game we have always assumed the puppet was first because of the Give Gifts Give Life mini game.. but what are we really looking at there? Certainly, there are dead children, and the puppet is giving them gifts. We assumed this is the puppet stuffing them into the suits because this game is all about stuffing kids into animatronics. But what the image actually shows us is.. masks. After the masks are given out, we get the Golden Freddy jumpscare which makes sense as that's the final victim on the tombstone list. "The one you should not have killed" Why is this kid any different than any other kid William killed up till this point? Phone Guy Night 6 fnaf 2: "Uh, the place is closed down, at least for a while. Someone used one of the suits. We had a spare in the back, a yellow one, someone used it... Now none of them are acting right. Listen, j-just finish your shift. I-It’s safer than trying to leave in the middle of the night. Uh, we have one more event scheduled for tomorrow, a birthday. " In Ultimate Custom Night, we get this line Marionette: "The others are like animals, but I am very aware" What if the spirits possessing the animatronics are different than who the puppet gives the masks to? After all, it's alluded that William himself stuffed those kids into the suits. But there are also times we see more children in the games just off to the side, foxy finds them. The ones who start not acting right, those seem like what's stuffed in the suits. It was always weird to me that in the games we kept being told the animatronics were roaming, doing things they had in their programming, just not at the right times or correct ways. Not really omg they are possessed. The only clue indicated that they have something other than program quirks to tell us what's going on is the smell and ooze. Maybe they weren't active right away. Just seems like a weird detail that they function mostly normally up to a point so much so that the place doesnt know there are dead things inside. What if the puppet, to get revenge, put masks on separate kids who had died in the pizzeria, and controlled them to murder the crying child after Cassidy is murdered? What if that's the point we get the fnaf 2 puppet stare-down cut scene. Why else would William give the crying child a doll to continuously remind him "remember what you saw", "be careful", and hurry him to an exit. "you know what will happen if he catches you" "he hates you." I think at the time of the game the puppet was still meant to be a male. The only hitch I had to this theory for a while was Henry. "A wound first inflicted on myself" If the puppet dies last how does this make sense? Those are separate theories, including Michael being stolen by William, as well as all of the info we skipped in the game involving the grandfather clocks, the grandfather song, the old man looking sprite in the house infront of the tv, the fact a building is called juniors in a story where the first franchise must have started in the 30's, well before william or henry could have lived. Grandpa Afton/Emily. But again that's separate.
0:17 I absolutely LOVE this art of Cassies dad, it's so cool that he's drawn with a compression glove and hearing aids, and the artstyle looks like it would fit right in as a cardboard cutout around the pizzaplex
I really like this theory, but something that puts a wrinkle in it for me is that in the FNAF 3 tapes it is said that the spring suits are discontinued when customers are being taken in the safe room
Am I the only one that still thought that the 4 missing children was always the first death despite anything new within the last few years. Like I just don't see any narrative reason for why Henry's kid would be the first to die by William's hand.
I recently realized that FNAF's lore problems are because it has just too much evidence that allows for multiple possible timeline of events and no consensus can ever be reached on the actual storyline. The MCI dying first means William was a greedy lunatic, Charlie dying first means he was jealous of Henry, and C.C dying first means everything else he does is motivated by grief and vengeance. And these are all valid ways of looking at his character, but I don't see why Help Wanted 2 needed to add even more evidence instead of just confirming what we thought was the main sequence of events (C.C, Charlie, MCI, Elizabeth). The UCN voicelines hinted at many different fan theories and headcanons, so why doesn't this game do the same thing? It's probably because it just doesn't matter which incident takes place first, the simplest timeline is that some kids die, William goes crazier, Michael gets scooped, and supposedly everyone is burned in FNAF 6. But boy does this make everyone's characterization inconsistent, to the point that fans have to insert their headcanons about what each character is like in terms of personality and motivation, and everytime the games or books imply anything else, fans get mad. TL;DR: nobody who worked on Help Wanted 2 has heard of Occam's Razor
I've been saying for a while that I thought the MCI were before Charlie, but that she was the first "true" posession and that "giving life" just meant allowing them to be in control of the animatronics, instead of just being confused spirits
1:02 nah he’s the middle son, Elizabeth is the youngest, that bed in the girl’s bedroom in the fnaf 4 minigames is a cradle, it’s confirmed in a fnaf ar teaser.
I think the PQ4 graves are backwards, in terms of the placement of the incidents. The player is going through both their own and Glitchtrap’s memories to reach the Bite of 83, with the Bonnie mask. Commonly in media, and just plain logic, if you’re going through memories, the most recent events would come first. The MCI is in the correct order, since both the player and Glitchtrap wouldn’t remember it as the death of each individual kid, but the incident as a whole; neither were actually there, given mimicry and all that. Then there’s Charlie, then the Bite. But again, if it’s all backwards, then the order would actually be the Bite, then Charlie, then the MCI, which not only works better with everything else in the franchise, but also works better as a narrative. As for Fall Fest: I think it’s just showing us the start of the timeline. Henry and Afton run the Fall Fest in the 70s, it’s successful, and everything kicks off from there. I also kind of think Charlie may have died at Fall Fest 83; Henry would be busy running the festival, leaving Charlie alone at Freddy’s/Fredbear’s/WhereverTheHell. William would be able to know this, and then know he’s open to kill Charlie.
Nah thats overthinking it. Think of it like this; charlotte dies After security puppet and monitor bracelets are being used. If its CC > charlie > MCI, how would bracelets made to monitor where every kid in the building is prevent another bite of 83? Unless: they were made to prevent another incident which only happened because kids were left *unmonitored* and went to a *place* in the building which they werent supposed to be in
I think Charlie being the last to die makes sense - I think the order of events is that the Crying Child, terrified after seeing someone getting springlocked by the animatronics, or simply by seeing the animatronics without their fuzzy exteriors, was bullied and eventually accidentally killed by his brother. Afton, driven to insanity after losing his son, decided he would try to rebuild him, since he was proficient in repairing machinery. But to do this, using his own warped line of logic, he'd need children to experiment on. So Freddy's temporarily closed since a child died there, and that's when Afton used modified Henry tech to build the funtime animatronics and open Circus Baby's Pizza World, with the express purpose of capturing kids to experiment on. This, I believe, was the wound Henry was referring to, the one that went unresolved and resulted in far more tragedies down the line. Unfortunately, this also led to Elizabeth's death, and Circus Baby's was shut down and Afton was ousted one of the co-owners of Fredbear's/Freddy's for using such dangerous technology in the first place. Then, MCI happens, with Afton using the Springbonnie suit since he can't use the Funtime animatronics in a practical way besides trying to rent them to children's parties, and he gains access to the reopened Freddy locations as a security guard after using false aliases. Eventually, both fearing for his own child and business, Henry builds Security Puppet, and as one last cruel act of revenge against Henry, Afton kills Charlie when the other kids lock her outside. The puppet then uses her ability to place the lost souls into the suits, and eventually, he attempts to dismantle the suits to collect the bodies to experiment on remnant, until he's killed by the springlocks. I'm sure some smaller details need to be ironed out, but I'd say this makes sense of the timeline of the first 6 games pretty concisely.
Really good theory, but idk about that last part... I think Fallfest being the reason for the MCI is right, just not in that way. My idea is that Fallfest was William's thing. After all he is the one who makes the circus based pizzeria, Circus Baby's Pizza World, so it would make sense if he was the founder of Fallfest in 1970, which seems to have a circus/carnival theme too. Then when he met Henry and they started working together, he had the idea of adding animatronics to the Fallfest in 1983. That year tho, because of a malfunction in Henry's animatronics, the whole thing caught on fire, ruining Afton's Fallfest. That would actually be supported by the Fazerblast minigame where we see the fire being caused by a malfunction of Dredbear.
my opinion - there's no way MCI happened before Charlie's death. spirits can't just possess the animatronics by themselves, and the "Give Gifts" minigame clearly shows that. Charlie is the one who gave life to the children, and she needs to die before them. also - it would be extremely weird if William killed Charlie before MCI. also, that would be extremely weird if William did such an absurd mistake as killing a child right in front of the restaurant. it needs to be his first kill - extremely emotional, impulsive, without any plan (sorry for my english, not my first language)
Another point to support the timeline, the missing kids incident and Emily are both in black and white while the crying child and Elizabeth are in color, perhaps the timeline is following the development of technology, the first two were killed in the very early stages of video games, then once color was added the mini games got color as well. This might also explain why some video games have those lines through them, some of the cutscenes are being watched on old tvs, then as time goes on their emulated on higher quality screens when we see them (compare the first puppet mini game that you can barely make out, that we watch relatively early in the timeline at fnaf2, then the clear video game at fnaf6)
On one side the crying child’s death could have been what prompted security puppet. It was bullying that caused cc’ death, and the security puppet game slightly shows that Charlie might have been bullied (getting locked out and none of the kids caring). So maybe the puppet was made for that reason and not the missing child incident. Love the theories tho, great work!!!!
That's literally just gonna be shipping drama between team lovers and team brothers. I'm team brothers btw. Seen them as such as the main duo even during Fredbear's time.
@@boyhowdy682 You mentioned Freddy and Bonnie. Not the glamrocks. And it's still creepy shipping characters that previous iterations had dead children inside of them.
25:11 So... I have an idea based on this. Of course, no proof but kinda circunstancial evidence. What if the "a wound first inflicted on me, but one that I let bleed out to cause all of this" is even more literal? First time I saw Carnie, I was surprised he talked so much in such a "responsive" (ig?) way. He comments on specific things he sees (you look like you have kids), almost like a human is operating him. And he also starts screaming he's on fire. So... what if Henry WAS operating Carnie? Maybe William started a fire to hurt him. Or maybe he didn't first intended to harm him, but that ignited something on William. It'd be a fun story, at the very least lol
Ok, this will be a big comment and you might not even see it but i think i should do it anyway, but i just wanted to say my point of view and thoughts, and honestly i like your theory, i just don't think we can forget the old bits of lore that i think you forgot about(?), especially the ones regarding Fredbear's Family Diner, since we barely have any information about it. Anyways, i love how the order MCI, Charlotte, Crying Child and Elizabeth just makes sense, but i dont think that's what all the evidences are telling us; the right order might be Charlotte, MCI, C.C. and Elizabeth. Ok, starting at the begining, William as Henry's deal (we have most of this information based on the novels): i agree that William might have already been messing with costumes and animatronics before this whole ordeal with Henry, but i dont think he was working on Fredbear's, i think William had his own little bussines that just messed with this kind of things, and that he worked with other companies (this explains the Fall Fest and Fnaf 1 Phone Guy's speach, which both confirm that the animatronics exist, at least, sinse the 70s). Now, we know William is capable of doing his own animatronics, mainly because of SL, but also because of the trilogy (this little business may or may not be Afton Robotics, i dont think it matters anyway). Getting out of especulation, William and Henry created Fredbear's Family Diner together, there's nothing explicitly proving the opposite (and that's what the trilogy tells); now, it could be Scott being inconsistent with his desings (wouldn't be a first), but there's a chance that there might've been two different Fredbear's Family Diners, one which was where Charlie died and another which the Crying Child died. The first is where Charlie died, and in the novels, it is described as a remote, simple and smal place. In the games, one place that fits this characteristcs is fnaf 6, where it's shown in the start of the game that the Pizza Place is in the middle of nowhere, and is a smal establishment with only two tables and is totally made out of wood. The place in the fnaf 3 minigame is also brown, and even in the minigame "Take Cake to the Children" it is smal, considering that it is, indeed, Fredbears. But the Fredbears that the Crying Child dies is very different from this, its in the middle of the city, the place isn't as little as the Pizzaria Simulator one and definitely is not as simple. But the place is not the only difference, the animatronics desing also are; i know we all have in mind that Springbonnie and Fredbear are all yellow with purple accessories, but the only times we see then like that are on the fnaf 4 minigames, in UCN and in Help Wanted with Glitchtrap. Every other sprite or drawing about then they are that yellow-ish brown with black accessories, like the fnaf 3 minigames, the posters on Security Breach (especially with "Fredbear's singing show" one), and im sure we can include the 'Take Cake' minigame not only bc the books said Charlie died in Fredbears but also because the remake of that minigame in fnaf 6 (the one at the start of the game) also has a yellow-ish brown bear with black accessories. The only different one is the graphic novels, where Springbonnie and Fredbear trully are yellow, but they still have the black hat and bowtie.
Ok, but how does this works? In order, Willian and Henry created Fredbear's Family Diner together, that first place was made before Fazbear Entertainment and had the yellow-ish brown with black hat and bowtie Springlock animatronics, along with the security puppet. In the early's 1983, Willian kills Charlie and not to much later that Fredbears is closed. Some time before or after this, Fazbear Entertainment is Created along with the classic "unwithered" gang, and at some point, the Springlocks start to be used in this (or those) location. Late in the same year, they decide to open the Diner again, as a location belonging to Fazbear Entertainment (as that old fnaf 4 teaser says it does) in the fnaf 4 minigame place, but this time, probably bc Fredbear looks a lot like Freddy, they decide to give the old models a slight redesing, making them fully yellow and with purple accessories. I think what happened to them is the same think that happened to the classic gang, where they remodeled the older ones (the fixed whithereds) to the newer (the fnaf 1 models). The biggest clues for this are pretty much forgotten, but i honestly dont blame anyone (there's so much nowadays), but anyways, you know how HW just gives us the date of the Fazbear Entertainment creation? The TUG (The Ultimate Guide) also gives us what used to be the exact date of Charlies death, november 11th of 1982. The only reason i say this is not true anymore is because that Fredbear's was supposedly closed not so long after Charlies death, but since SB showed that the Diner was still open in 83 i think they changed her death to late 82 to early 83, and since MCI83 happens in june 26, Charlie has to be the first one to die. This old date for her death is also a proff itself of this "TwoDiners" theory, since Fazbear Entertaiment was created in 83, but before Security Breach, Charlie died in the late 82, so there has to be an old establishment that isnt Freddy's, since it didn't exist yet, but it also can't be fnaf 4's Fredbear's Family Diner bc that Diner is also an Fazbear Entertainment property, so it has to be something else. You can say that this date is not canon anymore so it can't be used to theorise, but as much as it can't be used it also can be, so do whatever you want, i guess.
So, the Crying Child's death was in 83? Yes, it was. I know that is really strange the way Scott just threw this date in a random spot in the game, but for this, we can't look at it with lore in mind, we have to look at it with Scott Cowthon in mind: When fnaf 4 was being made, Scott probably made this bite to be the Bite of 87, but for some reason he decided to change this, and make this another bite (probably something to do with he wanting fnaf 4 to be explaining how a kid was imagining all the fnaf lore), so he just gave us this date in a silver plate to make it clear that it is the Bite of 83, and not 87.
And about a reason for the original Fredbear's to have security puppet is pretty much like you said, just to have security. Like, in the minigame we literally have to prevent the children from going outside. I dare to say that during this time, the Puppet's gifts were those bracelets the kids were using, probably some kind of tracker to alert him when children are getting close to the exit, so he can stop them from leaving and apparently even go out to bring them back inside. It's clear to say that after the possesion and the transfer, the puppet was reporpused to be in Freddy's prize counter to give plushies or those masks or whatever to the children or the birthday kids insted of being security.
And lastly, one thing that this order gives an answer to is the Springlocks. The suits are, in some way or another, in all these important events, and interesting enought, they tell their own story. You may notice how i said earlyer that after Fredbear's Family Diner closes the Springlock suits went to be used at Freddy's, and that is true. In fnaf 3, the training tapes in nights 2 and 3, Phone Guy is explaining how to handle/climb into/climb out of the Springlocks suits, yet a lot of times he says for us to smile cuz we're the face of Freddy Fazbear's Pizza. Later, in the night 4 tape, he says that there has been a change of company policy regarding the use of the suits, and that is 'DONT use the suit', cuz there was multiple Springlock failures in some sister location and the "classic suits" were deemed "temporarily unfit for employees" and are being "retired to an appropriate location while being looked at by our technician", and "until replacements arrive, you'll be expected to wear the temporary costumes provided to you", and he also makes it very clear that the classic suits are not supposed to be touched, activated or worn. In night 5 tape, he makes a "reminder of company policy concerning the safe room", and all he says can be read as "there is someone messing around the safe room and even bringing guests in there, stop it" (interesting to say that in this part he uses 'other property not being currently used' when speaking of the Springlock suits), and he also says how "the Springbonnie animatronics has been noticeably moved" and another reminder to don't use the suit. What all this means is how there are classic Springlock suits being used at Freddy's, and when an incident happens and the suits are retired to an specific location to be fixed and/or upgraded by an specific technician (that location is definitely the first Freddy's and that tech is definitely William) and are not supposed to be used. Then, someone is using the Springbonnie suit, is messing around in the safe room and bringing guests there. Looks like some missing children incident, right? Yeah, i think this is telling the "suits pov" of the MCI, or however you wanna call it. The last tape is just Phone Guy talking about closing the safe room with a false wall in most locations duo to budget restrictions. Now, the tapes dont have to be from one day after the other, they can, and likely have, a time period between each other. I dont know if the Springlock failure in that sister location is important, likely not since it was never mentioned ever again. Im pretty sure we never, and likely never will, get a look on what those temporarily costumes looked like and how they worked, but im sure that the redesingned Springbonnie and Fredbear in fnaf 4 are the replacements that P.G. talks about. I don't know if the replacements were ever used in Freddy's, i don't think it makes a difference anyways. Sooooo, all this also kind of inplies that the first Freddy's was in the same location as the fnaf 1 one, aaaaand i.. thiiiink.. that's it? Good God i hope ALL this makes sense and i got my points proven 😭
Oh yeah Golden Freddy also has that yellow with black hat and bowtie style in fnaf 1, but in fnaf 2 he is that yellow-ish brown with black hat and bowtie
I dont believe fall fest would be able to happen before the MCI considering that the MCI is suspected to be in the summer. If MCI is summer of 83 and fall fest is in 83 it wouldnt work.
You have GREAT arguments here, but here's something I think we're all missing: Crying Child HAS to die before Charlotte, because of "Midnight Motorist." We know "Midnight Motorist" is titled "LATER THAT NIGHT," and considering the rain and the purple car, it's like a 95% chance that it's referring to the night Charlotte Emily died. And part of the evidence for William being the driver, aside from the purple car, is that the path from JR's to the driver's house is the exact same as the path as Fredbear's to Crying Child's. We're all pretty much in agreement that JR's was built over Fredbear's, meaning Fredbear's has to be CLOSED the NIGHT that Charlotte Emily died. Crying Child dies in Fredbear's, so logically it has to be open during that. Crying Child has to die before the restaurant closes, meaning he has to die BEFORE Charlotte Emily. Also one other thing but with the newspapers referencing two missing kids: I think you missed that the LAST two were the ones to get lured, not the first. It's after two are lured that a suspect is caught on camera and arrested; the next newspaper then says that five children are now LINKED, not that they're "now missing." It's most likely that the last two died at once, and then the police linked all the incidents together.
The puppet mini game isn't proof that the puppet died first. It's only proof that the puppet was possessed first while the others were just spirits without physical connections if the graves depict the order. That's my thoughts on it.
16:00 "Small souls trapped in prisons of my making, now set to new purpose, and used in ways I never thought imaginable." "Are they still, aware? I hope not. It keeps me awake at night. I could make myself…sleep. But not yet. Not until I undo what he has done, and heal this wound. A wound first inflicted on me, but then one that I let bleed out to cause, all of this." "I don’t know how those tiny breaths of life came to inhabit those machines, but they will never find rest now - not like this. I have to call them, all back. All of them. Together, in one place." From what I can gather from Henry's FNaF 6 speech, the "wound" Henry is referring to is the small souls trapped inside his creations. And to heal this "wound", aka, freeing the souls from the animatronics, he creates Paragraph 4, the plan to trap and burn the animatronics in FNaF 6. In this context of the "wound", it's simply letting us know that Charlotte was the first to possess an animatronic, not that she died first. I hope that helps :)
Charlie comes before MCI. Both CC and Charlie die in 1983. The books on now HW2 solidify this. William hated the fact that “Henry’s” animatronic killed CC so he blames Henry and kills Charlie
It’s worth pointing out that in fnaf 1 there’s a child’s drawing of Bonnie popping out of what looks like the Puppet’s box. This could imply the Puppet replaced Bonnie in the prize corner and Bonnie was moved to the main stage. Another thing I think is good to point out is that while the Funtimes are advanced,they aren’t murder machines. They’re kidnapping machines. To me,that shows character growth in William. He goes from kidnapping kids to killing them. I also maintain the argument that Spring Bonnie and Fredbear can’t be at Freddy’s until after Crying Child’s death so the MCI as we know it happened literally can’t happen until after Crying Child dies (technically,it’s not confirmed William used the Golden Spring Bonnie suit for the first MCI as fnaf 3 does tell us there are spring lock suits at Freddy’s but we know Fredbear is Golden Freddy and the Vengeful Spirit gets stuffed in Golden Freddy)
Damn, predicted the fallfest game 8 months or so before it was announced. I think these SteelWool guys know how to leave breadcrumbs for the theorizers
Maybe "first inflicted upon me" is said because no one knew where the mci kids were. But everyone knew where Charlie was. I don't hate the idea though that Henry was a foster parent. There are several Candy Cadet stories about 5 into 1. Including one about a person adopting 5 kids and losing them all. That said I'm still convinced Elizabeth was first and the kidnapping tech was retrofitted.
Short and simple alright. Henry’s newly installed hydraulics into Fredbears jaw snaps shut on Williams youngest son. William does not know his oldest son made that happen and automatically assumes Henry killed him since he installed the hydraulics. William retaliates and murders his daughter who is trapped outside by bullies. That happens in 1983 which tells us both of their youngest children died in the same year. Freddy’s opens in that same year and Henry has his suspicions but focuses on making the new location better. William checks out the new location and sees the puppet with tears on its mask which he realises that Charlie is still around. That gives him the impression he can bring back his child like he promised him and it also can potentially make him immortal so he lives forever. So for his own plans and to ruin Henry even more, he goes to the blocked off safe room and puts on his favourite rabbit suit on. He then finds Susie playing a game and tells her he can help her with her dog. So he then gains her trust leaving him to find a young Fritz watching foxy perform. He lies to him about something like getting a closer look at foxy, gaining his trust. Then on that night of June 26th 1985 when the animatronics are turned off for the day, everyone is playing some games or something before it closes which distracts them letting William not be seen with these kids. He takes them to the safe room and murders them. Unfortunately for him the cameras catch him in that hallway walking out and the parents report the kids go missing. They bring William in but no bodies were found nor any of the two kids were found alive so then pronounced dead sadly. He gets released then another night he returns and lures three more children to that safe room and murders them. The last one which we know is Cassidy, he goes berserk and messes her up badly before having to hide her in Fredbear. But again it’s like he forgot about the cameras and got caught once again. But again no bodies were found. Then the over the weeks parents smell weird odours radiating from the animatronics and report to the police about mucus around the mouth which leads to them closing down because of the mci and the sanitation problem. Then William is able to move far away for 2 years and becomes a fake identity knows as Dave Miller to not get caught if he is guilty. For 2 years Henry doesn’t know what to do since he knows his old business partner is a murderer and might do it again but since he hasn’t seen him in a while, he decides to create these toy animatronics with face recognition to identify predators. While away, William heard about Freddy’s reopening and decided to go back to once again screw Henry. He returns as Dave Miller and becomes the night time security guard to check the place out. Over the week he notices the old withered ones moving around and coming after him which scares him but he survives and gets moved to the day shift. A new guard by the name of Jeremy Fitzgerald takes the role and does a week there. In that week, William strikes again and puts on his rabbit suit and murders 5 more children in plain sight leaving their bodies slumped there on the ground for something to find them. Presumably Thursday the phone guy warns Jeremy that someone used a suit and done something bad telling him to leave. The toy animatronics become aggressive and come after him. On the Saturday he is walking around and was told to fix Mangle since kids messed her up but Mangle chomps him and kills him. So the place has only been open for a few short weeks but is already closing down and so Fritz Smith does the last two days there which he survives but he gets fired for odour and tampering with the robots which seems to be on purpose. Then the place shuts down and Henry scraps the new robots for not working and recycles the old endos from 85 to eventually reopen in a few years.
After those events, William knows a lot about robotics now thanks to Henry and wants to continue creating robots and murdering children so he decides to build an underground bunker under his house to create his own Funtime animatronics to kidnap and kill children so he can experiment. His daughter Elizabeth finds about the main attraction Circus Baby and wants to play with her but obviously his robots will harm her so he tells her to stay away from it. William then opens up Circus Baby’s Pizza World to make money and again be a horrible person but Elizabeth decides to disobey her fathers words and finds Baby’s room where she is meant to be so she goes up close to her and William installed a claw inside her stomach that grabs children so unfortunately Baby pulls her in and kills her in an instant. For that reason the newly opened restaurant closes down and William puts it down to gas leaks. He is enraged that she didn’t listen but has hope she is alive so he sends Mike down there to try and find her while he works on his experiments. Since a lot of people believe Henry reopens Freddy’s one last time in 1992 Mike goes looking for his sister while William goes to Freddy’s to gain more remnant. William knows his victims are possessing the suits so he puts on a purple Freddy suit to gain their trust once again and lure them to the exact same room they died in 8 years ago and uses an axe to destroy them. He thinks his job is done there but he can’t leave as his victims spirits can access the safe room trapping him in there and presumably Cassidy chases him scaring him while he swings his knife in fear leading him to hide in his infamous rabbit suit. He taunts them and laughs thinking he escaped them. We know the location is a low budget one so the roof leaks and a drop of water goes into the endo joints and he is moving inside of the suit so it then triggers the spring locks and crushes his bones and his insides. He screams for someone to get it off but the spirits watch him fall to his knees and against the wall struggling they disappear leaving him there. Mike in the underground bunker finds his sister but she turns on him basically and his insides get scooped out allowing the newly formed Ennard to escape through his body. Ok I could keep going but fuck me it’s long
I had a thought that Cassie’s dad is Jeremy from help wanted 1, who sliced his own face off. I have a lot of reasons but it something to maybe think about
As the plushies fade in FNAF 4 we HEAR AN ACTUAL FLAT - LINE sound… if you ask me, it’s cut and dry that he’s dead! What if the order of the graves isn’t the order of DEATHS but the order of when the spirits move on after Happiest Day
One way to make "a wound first inflicted on me" work with MCI being first is just making Susie a relative of Henry It is an overly simplistic theory with no good evidence to back it but it works
One thing to add to your evidence of the Bonnie mask referring to the Bite of 83 (and therefore being between Charlie and elizabeth's death) is that the entryway to the Bonnie mask chest has 6 dots surrounding it. Which, the Puppet's grave has 5, placing the Bite of 83 as the next major event after Charlie
I always though Charlotte died first just it kinda makes sense for willian to kill Henry's child to get revenge in some sick way of losing the crying child and could also show how william discover remnemt
omg your explanation at the end made so much sense! I really hope your timeline is right because it would really tie all these events together nicely and with reason.
Hey I noticed something. So, we play as Bonnie bro from FNAF 4 right. Well, you get an achievement when you get the bonnie doll which says, "remember Jeremy?" Why would it bring up Jeremy out of all people. At first, I thought maybe the crying child but I'm not sure yet. The only issue about this theory is that phrase has also been used for the Help Wanted character Jeremy. I have more proof that Jeremy is the name of the crying child, but I don't know for certain.
Another issue I didn't realize is that there is also tombstone that has Jeremy's name on it. Which could go both ways but it's just an idea. In FNAF 1 the phone was talking about the bite of 87 which when putting that into the custom night we get jump scared by golden Freddy. In FNAF 2 it IS 1987 and oddly enough we play as a person name Jeremy. Not only that but we have characters jump scare biting the characters head. Though In FNAF 4 we see yet another point in time the chomp of 1983. This is odd because if there was yet another bite with a yeah nearly unknown of. Not only that but Fred bear is the one who does it and when we type in 1987 in the custom night like I said Golden Freddy comes up. I think that the year 1987 was reckoned. And instead, he went with 1983 instead. I also have something else. In FNAF Help Wanted 2 in the secret sister location room when you have to get the bonnie memory. You have to type in 1983 in that to get it to work. And sure, enough that's the same memory that you get the achievement "remember Jeremy." I really hope you read this cause if not then I just said all this for nothing.
@@isabelortiz1230 Yes I explained that why would remember Jeremy come up as an achievement when the comp of 83 happened before the missing kids' incident.
I like how this Theory actually simplifies a lot of things. It also makes a lot of sense considering the order the original games came out in: the MCI (FNAF 1), then Charlie (introduced in FNAF 2), then the crying child (FNAF 4), and then Elizabeth (FNAF 5). I'm not necessarily sold on Afton being the one to burn Fall Fest down, but I think the theory still holds water without him being the culprit of that particular incident. MatPat putting the crying child's death first, in order to give Afton motive to kill Charlie, does make for a good story, but I think that train of thought is what has made the timeline so convoluted. This seems simpler and closer to the evidence actually presented in the games.
This is fairly unrelated, but I just noticed it. In the fnaf 4 cutscene where the crying child gets bitten, that's a Henry anamatronic. The bonny is William's spring lock suit. (Because of the jaw hinge. Can also be seen in leftie and in the fnaf 6 anamatronics.) Has anyone covered that? Or is it even lore relevant?
If you think about it we actually get two instances of a burning fall festival, one in fazerblast 4 and in the cinder carousel. You could probably also include Grim Foxy, Jack-o-Bonnie, and Jack-o-Chica as they are also on fire. They could have been at the fall fest when the fire happened. (But that’s only speculation on my part anyway.)
16:05 My issue is - why would that specifically refer to Charlie and not maybe a previous event that lead to it all? Especially as Henry directly talks to Charlie in that monologue, there could have been more allusions to her death being source of it all. For all we know - this could be any tragedy. Henry made a lot of those animatronics, he could blame himself for Fredbear or Circus Baby (if those were his designs) - that lead to William's madness. Or like Mr. Hippo said right in the next game after - It could have meant nothing at all. Just Henry doing a cool monologue for sake of a monologue. On the other hand - the second part of that phrase - for it to bleed to others, he could also talk about events that happened after Charlie's death. Maybe her giving the life back to the children (the wound being Henry recognising Charlie within the Puppet) or it could refer to all the other tragedies that happened because of Charlie reviving the animatronics. For all he knew - missing children, just were missing. All the bites, were just tragedies. Robotic zombie apocalypse? That spread, because he made the Puppet. He calls animatronics monsters in that same monologue and he makes Lefty to bring and end his own daughter. He found a way for immortality and it scared him. 16:30 Other detail for me that supports Charlie being 6th - is that Puppet giving life mini-game doesn't happen every time one of the kid gets missing. We see four ghosts/bodies in that mini-game, there is no reason for Charlie to wait until another victim comes - she would revive them immediately like Puppet revived her. And then Golden Freddy would be special in it, either because it's already alive (either Cassidy's anger already keeping her going or Afton Jr. doing Puppets's job) or it's just an artistic choice, because Golden Freddy was type of Easter Egg in earlier games. 18:00 But also there was a lot of bad events before Missing Children incident and if Charlie was playing in that restaurant - Puppet could have been added solely to keep her safe. Something an inventor father would do. It could also explain Puppets's design - quite different from all the other deadly machines Henry (and William?) have made before. Or it was made because of the Missing Children incident - to make sure it didn't happen again. Especially as those children were meant to dissappear inside the establishment. 21:10 Or one could lead to the other. Remember that one of the leading theories right now is that after Missing Children incident William was the main suspect, but couldn't be fully prosecuted due to lack of evidence. Who he would blame for it? Probably Henry, his co-owner and person who had access to the cameras and other stuff. Henry who probably didn't even try to defend him. And then William after leaving jail - potentially drunk, mad and wet from the rain, very likely would be very bitter. To the point where he would just push all that anger on Charlie (either randomly or as revenge). 21:40 One detail to notice though - Puppet doesn't have a specific number assigned, it's more than 4 - after Golden Freddy. Nothing says that Crying Child couldn't get bitten before Charlie's death. It would make even more sense to happen right after Missing Children Incident, if Cassidy was already tweaking (we don't actively see Puppet give life to her and Happy Days mini-game is confusing enough that it could imply either Cassidy or Crying Child) - and it could also be the main reason the suit since then has been always in the costume mode, to not lead to more tragedies. On the other hand - aside 6 graves. That part of Princess Quest 4 has the secret location to the Bonnie mask. The stones around the stairs also have lights - 6 for every kid with a grave. But it could also be done to show us that Bite of 83 happened after both Missing Children and Charlie Emily incidents. Crying Child having 6 gems. In that interpretation Bonnie mask would represent Bite of 83. Especially, if we are playing as the Bonnie-bro, that would be his link to the event. 22:40 Oh nice you actually are talking about it, as well. 26:40 Welp.
Super awesome video. I really enjoyed seeing your take on the timeline when it comes to the order of the tragedies of the 8 children. And the way you integrated Fallfest is really cool too. Man, I am pumped to see what Fallfest is all about if FNaF decides to fully explore it in the next mainline game.
I think the security puppet was made to keep kids safe from animatronic accidents, not because of the MCI. So the order is something like: 1. 1983- CC gets bit at Fredbear's, dies and the restaurant closes. 2. 1983-1985(?)- Security Puppet is built to keep kids safe from the dangerous animatronics, Charlie is killed outside of Freddy's. 3. 1985(?)- MCI happens, Freddy's closes. 4. 1987- New Freddy's opens, William kills more kids and the restaurant closes after only a few weeks. 5. 1987(?)- Circus Baby's opens, with William intending to perform tests on kids, but Elizabeth dies and the restaurant closes and Circus Baby's rentals opens.
A bit off topic sorry, but I love coming to watch you specifically because of how loving your cats are. They must trust and love you a lot and always makes my day. On topic: i love watching how this kind of things shifts and grows, and I'm hoping we'll learn more about the fun fest soon! The mimic has costumes you could reasonably have at a local fair, so maybe we'll get more info when we see Cassy again?
Rye toast:this is not a disproving comment, this is simply my observation in a way to promote discussion The wound Henry got first was his kid being murdered so the order has always been pretty cut and dry to me, has to be Crying child, Charlie, MCI at least, and from there is when things become up for debate
notice that in the VR section of Princess Quest 4, you have to "climb down a hole", and it feels oddly familiar to the hole in the main lobby/FNaF 6 pizzeria sim that leads to Burntrap, the Mimic and M.X.E.S
long time viewer, first time commenter (lol) i think a less narratively satisfying possible answer to the whole "wound inflicted on me first" vs. the missing children incident could be that the missing children are just that---missing. they wouldn't technically be considered dead/murdered, especially at the time that charlie is killed. pretty flimsy, i know, but still. all that aside, great video as always! love your channel, keep up the fantastic work!!
Isn't this also ignoring the fact that golden freddy, golden bonnie, and the puppet are all at Fazbear's family diner, not Freddie's pizzeria? More specifically that one of the MCI children (Cassidy) winds up stuffed into the golden freddy outfit which would have to be present at Fazbear's at the same time to cause the bite of '83? I understand where you're coming from, but without reconciling that I think that the bite of '83 HAS to come before the MCI. On another side note, have we ever established how the puppet winds up at Freddie's Pizzeria to "give gifts give life"? Is it simply moved with the golden animatronics?
I just can’t see the Crying Child being killed anywhere but first. It just makes too much sense that that incident sparks William’s murder spree. Especially since Fredbear’s is open first and it wouldn’t make much business sense to have Fredbear’s and Freddy’s competing for revenue with characters that confuse the branding. In the particular theory speculated in the video the crying child could be killed just about anywhere. Heck he could have seen things at fall fest that made home scared of the animatronics and then later that year his birthday takes place and that is when the bite happens.
"A wound first inflicted on me" could be more personal. Rather than Henry saying he is the first victim, he's saying Afton threw the first blow between two of them, and that was when Henry first realized for a fact Afton was the villain. Then, rather than stopping the now identified villain, Henry left, allowing Afton's evil to 'bleed out' and continue to hurt others.
I was skeptical at first when you talked about the order of events on that last theory but as you explained it i do see how it works with the Fall Fest being the kickoff of Williams insanity then MCI, Charlie, Crying Child and Elisabeth. Its so convoluted in the story placements you really have to look into all the possibilites for the story to work especially the MCI being Missing and animatronics being soulless and Charlie killed after but before the give the souls/presents to the animatronics and for crying child to be scared for that very reason does make sense. Im just casually trying to understand the order of things watching MatPats videos this in my mind gives a very overarching understanding, thank you for that!
What do YOU think the correct order for MCI, Charlie, CC, and Elizabeth are?
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Timestamps:
00:00 Preheating
00:28 A Brief Recap on what we know about the beginning of the timeline
07:08 What are the necessary prerequisites for the timeline events?
09:15 What does Help Wanted 2 tell us about the Missing Child Incident?
13:01 Why can't the MCI happen first?
16:11 What does the FNAF timeline look like if the MCI happens first?
21:07 How could the MCI lead to Charlotte Emily?
23:13 What does Fall Fest have to do with the FNAF timeline?
23:59 The new FNAF timeline after Help Wanted 2
26:47 Letting it cool
I love you and your videos!!
CC, Charlie, Elizabeth, MCI
CC, Charlie, MCI, Elizabeth
One thought I have for crying child, what if he was Henry’s kid, being watched by William. Would that explain the “wound first inflicted on me” line? Maybe they’re not blood brothers, but grew up like brothers since their dad’s worked together. The books often mentions Charlie had a twin (the girl’s room from fnaf4)
Mike isn’t Henry’s child in the movie too. Idk, I can’t help but think Mrs Afton left William for Henry and started all of this
You know I just found interesting? Both Crying Child and Charlotte died due to a group of bullies. Neither group may have dealt the killing blows but their cruelty had a hand in their deaths. It's an interesting parallel (is that the right word??).
Yup, parallel is the right word, you are correct! Also, that's a very interesting detail!
@@DAVINNIA314 Much appreciated 👍
@@Takejiro24 You're welcome! 😁
it's interesting that now the Bonnie Bro character (the bully wearing the blue bonnie mask in the fnaf 4 cutscene where CC gets bitten) might be brought back as a character for the franchise (and potentially the protagonist of help wanted 2). what became of the bullies who locked out charlie? did they find out that eventually their bullying led to her death? would they be treated to some kind of supernatural retaliation?
You know I just found interesting? Both crying child and Charlotte died due to a group of bullies. Neither group may have dealt the killing blows but their cruelty had a hand in their deaths. For real life.
I see nothing wrong with this theory the end is very satisfying I wish however fnaf didn’t put as many wrinkles into things we thought for the longest time to be 100% correct
Fair, but I would also argue it's not technically a retcon. More of a clarification. If this is true anyway
@RyeToast that's like the textbook definition of a retcon tho lol
@@dolfuny it's really not, it would mean the ASSUMED timeline was a misconception that they now wanted to finally clarify
@@dolfuny
No, a retcon means they changed something.
But the community being wrong about something, and them Clarifying the details, is Not a retcon.
Nah i still think Charlie is the first
How on Earth does BarBADroid's art keep getting better and better
Right!!?!
ozone? Damn it's been a while since I've seen one of your videos
first Shunks doesn't have the check, now Ozone?!
I believe it’s called practice and experience but I could be wrong
@@yeah_definitely It's been a while since I've made a video! Good stuff coming soon tho... :)
This could also explain dreadbear being a mockery of fredbear. Henry was pulling his "friends" leg with that design but William didn't take it well
Huh, I never thought about that, but he did build Nedd Near probably, so I could see that totally
With Fall Fest being brought up more and more (AND in two different years) it makes sense to me that it would represent an important even in the timeline. “Hint for carnival” seems like it’s about that. I agree that it’s early enough to either be a “kickstarter incident”, when Afton gets motive, or backstory of how the business first started. That’s not even mentioning Sun/Moon’s possible role!
Also we got Carnie who is literally named after the common name for a carnival worker (also a carny or carn depending on where you live).
I really really hope they end up doing a game on Fallfest. Or maybe even a canon novel or something. This is such a pipe dream but imagine if they released a game on William's backstory and solved the game? Like imagine a FNAF game releasing and the marketing is like ''This will solve the lore'', everyone would go crazy for that game and it'd probably be a bestselling game.
@@NobodyUndefined they've openly said before that they want to make a game about the earliest days of the entire series
Thats been done already. Fnaf 3, 4, and 6 were all marketed as the games that would resolve everything @@NobodyUndefined
@@novustalks7525 True, it's honestly the fact that I'm kinda done with this series. Like I love FNaF But Scott is just a shit writer who can't figure his story out. I always used to sympathize with him because obviously he didn't expect it to blow up and had to rush a story but he's had time to remake it yet keeps fucking it up.
Maybe the code 1983 to get the puppet poppet (hehe) is meant to connect two events. It could be trying to tell us that Charlie's death was directly connected to Crying Child's death as an act of revenge by William, much like how MatPat suggested in his big timeline theory. It's either that, or saying she also died in 1983 the same year as the crying child, which opens tha can of worms again.
Which would be insane to think about. That would mean Bite of 83, MCI, and Charlotte’s death would all happen in one year.
@@ruben0222I mean it's better then him doing it for no reason, I'm open to CC being in coma but technically still alive until the MCI occurs but not after because it makes his character completely pointless and makes Afton being a father some throw away plotline, I would be fine with a soulless evil Afton but after sister location I kinda think it's incredibly unsatisfying.
or...and this is probably false. That the kid having nightmares is charlie. Only evidence behind this is the image of a girl in the fnaf 4 bed in SB lol
@@ruben0222 yeah I feel as though that would be too much I really hope we get confirmation sometime soon about the specifics as the marathon death theory or whatever you wanna call it was debunked years ago with the books and not it's come right back up again
Yea, it feels weird that they'd put the Puppet Poppet behind a 1983 code if its not meant to imply something about the timeline there. Its practically begging for the connection to be made. I know its a meme to say "Scott doesn't do coincidences", but it would be very clumsy with how likely this community is to take that as a connection.
I think that "a wound first inflicted upon me" was 100% leading towards Charlie's death, especially because of how important she was to Henry's arc and FFPS. Fall Fest's connection in this timeline is interesting but not very substantial, as William committing arson and killing 5 children over his characters seems kinda wild. It was still an interesting theory, and I think that the gravestones were there intentionally but just don't make much sense in the grand scheme of things.
Right!! I’ve been looking for this comment
Suzie was the first. Scott is the one who wrote the first 7 games so that statement comes from his own intention for the story
@@novustalks7525 I always interpreted that as her being the first victim of the MCI
William is mentally unstable in either version, so it tracks.
14:16 I would like to say that during Henry’s speech in fnaf6 he says this about his daughter “No one was there to lift you up in their arms.
The way you lifted others into yours.” Which is interesting because Henry doesn’t know about the happiest day, meaning he can only be talking about give gifts, give life.
So this is very well evidence that Charlie died before the MCI
Not really though, HW2 is clearly telling us the order, that is much bigger evidence and an "In your face" statement.
I see what you mean, but remember the MCI kids couldn't give life because their bodies were never found. They themselves were lost, so that is why there was no one there to lift up Charlie. But, Charlie's body was found so she would be the one to lift up the others. If anything it seems like evidence to support this theory. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
…how does that mean charlie was first though
if anything the use of past tense indicates that the mci happened first lol.
‘no one was there to lift you up into their arms (charlies death), the way you liftED others into yours (mci)’
@@RealJoJoDragon k
Couldn't he... just be talking about when she was alive and even though she was being bullied, she still offered kindness to others? As victims of bullying will often do?
(Edit: finished the video now and this still works. Thanks for the comment ❤️) I think that when Henry says about the wound first inflicted on him, he is talking about knowing his child is dead. The other victims are the MISSING Childrens Incident, so their parents still had that hope that theyd see their kids again, but Henry never had that hope. He just had grief, a wound first inflicted on him.
That's a fair point!
That’s a great point
Nah Charlie is the first
@@SubZero-hs9xcme when I use no evidence to disprove the counter argument or elaborate on my theory and simply use a basic phrase of disagreement instead:
@@normal_stars5768 always Show to be the first in any continuity,
Great theory. I like the timeline. William is shown to be a narcissist at least, a psychopath at worst, in his book portrayals. It doesn't take losing a child to set a psychopath off and setting fires is part of their escalation quite often. So, jealousy is an excellent motive for the fire. It doesn't take losing a child to trigger a psychopath to kill just pressure/stress of some kind. Honestly, I think the insistence that William was normal before CC is just romanticised by the fandom who want to try and understand a narcissist/psychopath through the lens of normal eyes. They want attention and thrills. I've often thought maybe his wife divorcing/leaving him was the trigger that sent him over the edge since narcissists are all about public image. Imagine him then being overshadowed by Henry once they merge after that would be a little too much for him to handle. I like the idea that his first act would've been arson.
I was really hoping someone was going to make this point. The Silver Eyes trilogy is pretty solid evidence that William Afton isn't exactly sane...
Totally agree, I feel like the fandom wants so badly for William to be a man driven mad by the grief of losing his son that they're failing to see he murdered a bunch of kids, he was always messed up, he didn't need a singular loss or moment of grief to drive him over the edge. I think people want the narrative satisfaction of "family man driven to madness" but I just don't think that's the story here.
I think his wife divorces after CC's death. In the Midnight Motorist minigame, there's a person watching tv on the couch who tells him not to bother who I presume to be Mike. William doesn't listen however and checks the window. So no wonder she divorced him, drunk father who desperately wants to get into son's room to beat him up or something isn't a relationship or a family you want to be a part of. But that also makes her a bad parent, she left her eldest son and daughter to the hands of her drunk and angry husband.
I've always felt that William's motivation was in large part, the personal part besides the mad scientist stuff, is jealousy of Henry. Henry being more "human" than he is and with more spark to him. I think he killed Charlotte to bring Henry down to his level.
his obsession with Henry in the books that goes between hating him and worshipping him as an idol is a huge hint to me. That was his ORIGINAL characterization, so I still feel it's really important.
To be honest, I follow so many FNAF creators these days that even if you were milking this game I wouldn't even notice. I can't remember the upload schedules of everyone, so your videos get lost in the sea of FNAF content and every new upload always comes as a surprise haha! Keep up the good work!
I really appreciate the considerate way you talk about contested or controversial theories. It is always easy to completely bash alternate theories, but you manage to both support your own conclusions while acknowledging other options. Theorists like you keep this community fun and collaborative!
PS I like this take on the timeline and using new games to constantly examine long held beliefs :)
Considering how little we actually know about Henry in game canon, "a wound first inflicted upon me" doesn't necessarily mean his daughter's death. If anything, the fact that he built the security puppet naturally suggest that something has happened for him to be concerned about his daughter's safety, so her death couldn't be first and the line is referring to something else, possibly at this fall festival that seemingly burns down.
Well, looks like it was brought up at the end of the video. Still, with how often bears pops up in Henry's designs, would think Afton has a stronger bond with Bonnie.
WAIT YEAH, Fall fest burning down, which we know Carnie, an animatronic probably made by Henry, was located, might be the thing that saves that line!
Or he could just be a protective father making sure his daughter is safe while he's busy working. Charlie literally has to die first, since she gives life to the missing children through the animatronics. We see this happen in the FNAF 2 minigame "Give Gifts, Give Life". We were right the first time, let's not dwell on things we have already solved.
@@treyvonlavell7334 I think if this new theory is going to work, the MCI has to happen, then the Puppet happened, and THEN their remnant was put in the suits.
@@treyvonlavell7334 Except Chica literally says she was first while people are just assuming that about Charlie. There's also stories now that show that spirits need to find their bodies, so the MCI can still be first then Charlie comes later and help them gain "life" by leading them to their bodies in the animatronics.
I think MCI being before Charlie it's a possibility, but crying child not being the first and all of this happening in 1983 is WILD
Well yeah, CC being first is one of the truely confirmed things IMO; if its not none of this story even remotely adds up. But whys all of it happening in 1983 ‘wild’?
Multiple locations clearly exist during that year. Theres at least one freddys but that cast of animatronics clearly arent at fredbears.
so CC would die at fredbears, william would go to freddys and cause the mci there, causing henry to make security puppet & monitor bracelets, then finally william eventually returns and unalives charlie
@@echo_z319 i mean the fact that so many deaths happen in the same year is very strange in my head, especially since Fazbear Entertainment just opened up.
While there is certainly some evidence of it, it's not too convinient in terms of worldbuilding (like, Steel Wool probably has many of them so they must have a motivation to change the dates all of a sudden)... As a writer myself it sounds pretty strange that a serial killer and a brand such as Fazbear Entertainment associated with the death 7 children in a short period of time can actually get away with it and then reopening many years later (even if for just some weeks).
I think what we are missing is the context of all of this... Which really falls down into the "Fallfest" theme, let's just hope that Steel Wool will cook for the next game as they did for this one 🤞
Well, FNAF 4 implies that BV saw the MCI, specifically Golden Freddy’s kid. So probably the MCI happened before.
Honestly, I think its very likely that Charlie's death was before CCs. That's pretty much the most likely explanation of midnight motorist. The game takes place after Charlie's death. The guy on the couch is dressed in the same gray shirt as Mike, he talks in gray like Mike and he watches TV like Mike. Mike is the couch potato. If William is mustard man and couch potato is Mike then the runaway child must be CC.
I rock with this. Like I said before, you and NotReal have a knack for coming up with alternate realities within what we know and as always, what we know can always change on the fly. That's the best and worst thing about FNAF. To me, the order of events doesn't really matter. As long as my Baby Girl Charlie still gets to help the MCI kids and Evan(and the possible DCI kids from FNAF 2) get their Happiest Day and their Rest, as long as William Afton himself stays in UCN, it's all good. There's more than one way to get the right answers.
Awesome video and theory, always appreciate Rye's ideas. Also just wanted to say how much I appreciated their discussion of the poppet dolls - it seems very well researched and I think explains them very well.
I say this because seeing the dolls in HW2 being described as 'voodoo dolls' by MatPat seemed misrepresentative of the dolls in general. So yeah very much appreciate Rye's research and discussion of them which manages to avoid any stereotypes/misconceived ideas.
I wanted to comment about this too! I'm very glad Rye added that clarification.
Y’all are now butthurt about the names people call a serial killer’s trophies? Only in the FNAF fandom, folks! 😂😂😂
@@madamplatypus313 Aha chill, imagine calling people butthurt when they just say thank you & appreciate someone's research. It's called being kind, you may not be familiar with that.
Maybe use some critical thinking before making a daft comment. Smh.
You mean "his" discussion on the dolls?
Yeah, to be fair, the game is still pretty new overall and many people (matpat included) are still going over the game to find more clues rather than going deep into what they already have, I guess, which is why the dolls keep getting referred to as "voodoo dolls" than what they actually are, since they look like "standard creepy little dolls". The fnaf community is always one to dig deep, so I'm sure people will start referring to them as poppet dolls soon enough.
It's really cool of Rye to put out a theory that's already well researched this fast already! The praise is well deserved 👏
I personally think it’s a lot more satisfying for Charlie to be the first victim of William after the death of CC. It lines up with Henry’s speech (which is far too important to ignore imo) plus it allows her to “give gift, give live” to the MCI victims. As for why she’s the last grave we light I think it’s symbolic. Charlie has always been depicted as being separate from the MCI victims since FNaF 2. William kills her while she’s outside an establishment not wearing his iconic yellow rabbit suit. We also see her buried at the top of the hill in Pizza Sims gravestone ending, overlooking the MCI victims. She’s the first to die and the last one to rest, not till William is gone permanently. It’s why we see the Nightmarionne plushies scattered everywhere.
Henrys speech could be referring to the reason security puppet/security bracelets were made.
It doesnt really make sense to make sure another bite doesnt happen by giving kids monitor bracelets. There are much more logical ways to make sure they dont get too close to springlock robots. This could be an argument for the MCI happening first; the location of every child in the building can be monitored consistently to ensure it doesnt happen again.
Plus if charlie died before the main 5 it wouldnt make sense for the 5 to go missing in the first place since the bracelets would still be in use; Unless the 5 were the actual reason the bracelets were made.
So its most likely bite of 83 > MCI shortly after > Charlies deaths shortly after > give gifts give life right after > location shutdown
@@echo_z319 What “wound” would have been inflicted onto Henry if MCI happened first? CC was William’s son and it doesn’t seem the MCI victims have any connection to the Afton’s or Emily’s aside from being killed by William.
As we see in the Security Puppet minigame its goal is to make sure a certain “assigned child” doesn’t reach the exit the building, that being a kid wearing a green bracelet, a color we only see Charlie wearing. I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say it was made to protect Charlie first and foremost. Also at the end the Security Puppet gets destroyed when it goes into the rain and is then possessed by Charlie. Don’t see why they’d continue to use it, especially as it seems the location would shut down after two major deaths and Freddy Fazbear being way more popular than Fredbear Family Diner.
Even if the Security Puppet was still somehow in use we know from the High School Chica segments in UCN (still can’t believe those are a real thing) that most of William’s victims where lured to the Pizzeria after hours, so they likely weren’t wearing bracelets as they weren’t in the Pizzeria
@@AlexDayz ‘A wound first inflicted on me, one that i let bleed out to cause all of this’-This is either referring to the MCI or charlies death.
Post-MCI: Henry develops security puppet and monitor bracelets to monitor where all children are in the building to ensure it doesnt happen again. This clearly becomes irrelevant due to charlie dying, which leads to her giving life to the children, letting the rest of the story play out. Even though william and henry had a partnership it was still henrys company at the end of the day; the mci would be his wound, one that he couldnt properly take care of which leads to everuthing else
charlies death: pretty much the exact same thing, just referencing charlie specifically and not the MCI.
Also those cutscenes were most likely referring to the kidnapped/dead children incident in the new and improved location.
The newspapers for the MCI confirmed the kids were in the building & lured to a backroom. Plus why would william just randomly decide to go running around kidapping kids around town when he can just do it at freddys at this time? He couldnt during the DCI due to the toy animatronics security, meaning it makes more sense for him to kidnap the second five mentioned in the cutscenes and lure the first 5 who were already in a pizzeria
Also of course puppet prioritizes charlie lol. Henry built it. Charlie is his daughter. Thats the most logical thing to do; but that doesnt change the fact the rest of the kids have bracelets too meaning theyre also being monitored.
+ it doesnt matter if puppet was ‘still being used’ after her death or not; thats irrelevant to this theory. Shes still possessing it and she still gave life to the kids, and eitherway it was still eventually reused in the 1987 location.
@@echo_z319 I’m not too caught up on the books but isn’t it heavily implied that it’s William who buys out Henry’s company? Whether you believe Tales to be 100% in the games or parallels it’s still canon, so the MCI being his “wound” wouldn’t make much sense imo. Not to mention who would it have “spread” to? The five kids killed in FNaF 2 (to my knowledge) don’t go on to posses any animatronics and the only ones around during Pizza Sim are fragments of the MCI in Ennard/Molten Freddy, Elizabeth, and Charlie. Sure he could just be referring to Charlie but it seems odd to refer to your own daughter as “others”.
The High School Chica cutscenes are clearly meant for the MCI. We see in Fruity Maze that William uses the same dog tactic with Susie, the first victim in the MCI, so the other methods are for the other victims with Cassidy’s being the worst. All the FNaF 1 newspapers do is say “Two local children were reportedly lured into a back room during the late hours of operation at Freddy Fazbear’s Pizza”, it doesn’t necessarily say they where customers or in the building. It’s also good to remember Scott did not have the whole story planned out during FNaF 1 as it was meant to be his last game, so it’s better to rely on newer information. Not saying they’re not important, just that some details may have changed in more recent games.
As for the DCI, he definitely could’ve done it in the building. He was using the Golden Bonnie suit and the Toy animatronics were made for facial recognition which the suit obscures. Regardless though their deaths are surprisingly unremarkable lore-wise as (again to my knowledge) they didn’t posses anything, only ruin the reputation of Freddy’s even more.
I think your explanation makes the most sense, but I do want to throw something out just to see what people think. In the books, Charlotte has a twin who she thinks got taken. Sammy. But as Afton says, he never did. It was her. While it's probable Sammy just never existed (or at least never effected anything) in the games, it's also possible that he died/was killed before anyone. Maybe at the Fall Fest, even. So he would be the first wound inflicted, then the MCI, then Charlotte, then CC, then Elizabeth.
Oh man, introducing Sammy would make a lot of fans angry lol. I like it though
I weirdly vibe with it ngl. to me it explains why they keep bringing up fallfest but maybe thats just me
Thats what I was thinking!
Sammy Emily is likely the one doing all of the deranged stuff in the Springtrap suit, since fnaf3 implies it was possessed before William’s death.
If Charlotte is lefty does that mean Sammy is righty?
At this point I think Scott should straight up confirm everything about the lore before Help Wanted 1 (because that’s where the new Fnaf story is starting at has barely even started yet) there are so many good timelines that contradict each other and have equally valid points.
I’ve been thinking about the timeline a lot lately and I’m in agreement with your sequence of events (although I’m pretty certain Circus Baby’s Pizza World comes between the closing of Freddy’s and the opening of the FNaF 2 location).
I don’t think the Puppet has to come first, I think she’s just responsible for the possession of the animatronics. I’ve been digging into the Candy Cadet stories, and I think that two of them reference events of the Give Life minigame.
The first Candy Cadet story tells about a young woman who can save one child, but ends up condemning five to their deaths. There aren’t any characters in the franchise who are ever given an opportunity to save any of the children (Henry doesn’t appear to be truly aware of the nature of events until after Sister Location, Michael and Charlotte were children and also don’t have any evidence pointing to their ability to save anyone from their actual deaths), so I believe that this is a reference to Charlotte’s potential ability to help a child pass on to the afterlife. The trouble being: Charlotte is still a child and can’t think of a way to help a child pass on without passing on herself, only ever being able to save one. I think she uses the memories of the children together, instead of individually-which would help them move on-to give “life” to the children through the animatronics, but it doesn’t work like that, and the only thing she has unlocked are five deaths, forged together for eternity.
I also think the last Candy Cadet story talks about Give Life, but then goes on to talk about Follow Me. The Puppet fits the bill for someone who gives toys (gifts, prizes) to children, loves bringing joy, and who shepherds orphans that don’t have anyone else. The characterization in the story implies that after their deaths, the children are actually happy together, until that happiness is shattered by tragedy. A villain enters the scene and kills them all-like in Follow Me. Henry talks about why this is so obscene in the Insanity Ending: William is luring the children AGAIN, overpowered them AGAIN, and depriving them of the only body they have AGAIN. But the Candy Cadet story doesn’t end there. I think the story implies that Charlotte is the one responsible for either Ennard or the Tangle, possibly both. The protagonist of the story stitches the remnants of the children together (five things becoming one, plus the Puppet) before there’s a knock at the door (implying the stitched entity is still alive?)
I think that not only does it make sense for Charlotte to be coming into the story later, I think it’s a better story if Charlotte enters an already tragic scene, tries to make things better only for William to strike back with more tragedy. Then the Puppet does what she knows how to do- give life to what she can.
As a side note: I’m pretty sure that the remaining Candy Cadet story is about Elizabeth and Baby: a red pet project, practically just a hungry animal, set loose to choose a child at random, but picks a child that the owner regrets (Elizabeth). After some time, the regret is enough for the owner to kill and scrap the pet project for the sake of the child, putting her back together (which is how Michael describes his task in Sister Location)
You’re pretty much proving it makes more sense for Charlie to be the first victim and Henry speech litteraly talks about the children
Your Candy Cadet explanations are really good
I always thought it this way.
C.C dies crushed by Fredbear.
William blames Henry for the Springlock failures, killing Charlie out of spite.
The security Puppet gets to her and the storm merges Charlie and The Puppet.
William discovered how that robot was able to work even broken and realised he could find a way to get his son "back together" in a robot form.
In order to to this, he starts experimenting by stuffing corpses inside of animatronics.
His other goal was to ruin Fazbear's reputation because Henry left him to work with their competition.
He left the Springbonnie suit in the safe room from the 85 pizzeria.
The bodies were discarded but their souls merged with the metal, specially the endos.
Now the animatronics hunted down any adult they come close with.
Also he reprogrammed the Toy models to do the same (maybe even with some Mimic AI involved)
The second Freddy's closes in 1987.
In the 90's Michael Afton looking for answers gets a job in a new but abandoned Freddy's location.
The robots think he's their killer, except for one soul a soul of redemption who is fighting with another who's vengeful and furious.
The establishment closes shortly after, and William decides to put an end to his creations, by destroying the original band, but keeping left Puppet and Golden.
He used all the Remnant infused metal to create special animatronics, not made for entertainment but made for experimentation.
But this time he made sure to warn her daughter of the dangerous stuff he was doing who was his favourite kid but her mother kept the custody till she died.
The Funtimes were born, and before they could start their first show, Elizabeth got closer to Baby, and her protocol activated, to catch her. Unfortunately, Baby's body malfunctioned and killed Elizabeth inside of her. Something she wasn't meant to.
William once again frustrated decided to return for the last pieces for his experiment, Charlie.
But he was confronted by the souls of the missing children, scared to death he put the old and moisten rabbit suit he used to wear, just right in time to have one of the worst deaths in fiction.
The Funtimes are a mixture of an advanced AI made by William to work as killer machines and Remnant that made them "alive".
Hand Unit was preprogrammed, nobody actually hired any of the Funtimes to perform, which is why they want to leave the bunker.
23:58 are we just going to ignore the fact that Lefty is just a reskinned Rockstar Freddy?
In fact, Carnie is closer in design to Rockstar Freddy than Lefty. So it would make more sense to try to make a connection between the Rockstar Freddy and Carrie
Great theory! It also makes sense regarding the order of the games (FNAF1 - MCI, FNAF2 - Charlotte, FNAF 4 - CC, SL - Elizabeth), and link FNAF4 to SL. Like, William says "I'll put you back together" to CC, so he creates the SL animatronics and learns about remnant, thus the child kindapping and the child faces in the SL bunker.
At first putting CC after the first 6 was weird to me, but you have really compelling arguments to back it up to be fair... It might be the new agreed timeline
Ohhhhh, you have a point. I never noticed but this order does match the order of the games. That’s pretty clever ngl.
Except we've been told that the funtime animatronics were among the first ones created
Unless the literal main villain of the story that theyve put so much effort into is only an ‘evil just to be evil’ character, there is no reason for the mci to happen first. Its either CC > MCI > Charlie > Elizabeth or a nonsensical incoherent story
I’m okay with MCI coming before Charlotte’s death, but it still feels weird to place CC after *both* of those. CC could technically be placed anywhere in the early timeline but works best as the first event because, like you said, it’s a tragedy. Since CC isn’t represented by any of the graves, I feel like we can still place his death first in the timeline, especially since we now know Charlotte was most likely killed at a Freddy’s.
EDIT: Just thought of this, but it feels weird for the Freddy’s locations to have Golden Freddy unless Fredbear’s has already closed by the time of the MCI.
Also that would mean that Cassidy was already possesing Fredbear as C.C. gets bit.
Nah, if the order is CC > mci > charlie then its not weird.
That would mean all of these events happened within a few days or weeks of eachother in 1983.
Fredbear would bite CC at the diner, then william would go to freddys and unalive cassidy who would be stuffed into that version of golden freddy
theres definitely multiple different versions of fredbear and springbonnie across locations because of the fnaf 3 phone call, fredbears parts and service room, design differences between nightmare fredbear/withered golden freddy etc
To me it’ll just always make the most sense if Charlie dies before the MCI because of Henry’s speech and because if Charlie possessed the Puppet before the MCI, it gives William a motive for the MCI, to study the weird possession stuff
Exactly why I believe CC has to die first. He is William's motivation. After his death, Afton spirals, kills Charlie in his grief and drunken rage. Charlie then revives the children after Afton decided to ruin Henry's reputation via MCI. And when he became a security guard in the FNAF 2 location he saw that the animatronics move on their own. This gives him hope that his son could live. Which is why he dismantled the 4 og animatronics (I believe that when we play as the ghost child in the Follow Me minigame it takes place long after he dismantles them). It fails successfully, he created the Funtimes, but they were aggressive. He made beasts, not children. But success would later come when Elizabeth dies. Sure she died, but the fact she possessed Baby proved Afton right. So he goes back to the location to collect more remnant but not before he tells Mike to find his sister in his bunker. Then William gets springlocked and Michael is scooped soon after. See, it makes sense.
@@raphaelapolinario8111i more in the side of afton always psychopath, he beats elizabeth in the books, put mike in sl bunker to be killed, used fear gas to experiment with his little son
But think about the security puppet minigame. Why would over the top monitor bracelets and an entire robot designed for security exist (before charlies death) just to make sure another bite doesn’t happen?
The bracelets monitor where every child in the building is. The mci happened due to children being lured to a place in the building they shouldn’t be. Afton doesnt need the motive of ‘studying possession’ at this point; hes deranged AND lost a child to henry’s creation. Hes going to ruin the places reputation, unexpectedly be able to murder his daughter, and start his own new company AND THEN expirement with posession after realising why henrys location shut down in the first place (puppet stuffed the bodies in the suits shortly after charlies death)
Also Charlie dies first in any continuity, and the MCI is showcased to be in 1985 many timed
based on cut lines (of which subtitles are still in the game) the character who helps the player is Vanny
I think that Charlotte was killed the same night as the MCI. Her body was the 1st found so Henry believed he was the 1st. Also Henry does have a flare for the dramatic. Also I think William mistook Cassidy for Charlotte that’s why she was the one you should not have killed. It’s possible the other kids weren’t random and were all children of investors ala Bons Burgers but Cassidy was an innocent kid with no relation to the franchise. That’s why Charlotte death was so rushed and out in the open. William in his rage/murder filled state didn’t realise it until he was about to leave and noticed Charlotte on her own in the dark rainy evening panicked and took her as far as his car killed her and left her there since he had no suits left to stuff
Oooh Cassidy being mistaken for Charlie is super interesting! It would also add to Charlotte’s sense of responsibility/protectiveness for the kids spirits, as it could stem from both this and the fact that the victims seem to be innocent bystanders of Afton’s “revenge” on her father
@@bpsara hmm never thought of it like that obviously the counter argument is how can William mistake the Daughter of his closest “friend”
Love this! But Cassidy is a blond boy and Charlie is a dark haired girl, so they probably wouldn't look too similar.
@@clayton_rose true true!
@@CottonCandySharks I thought Cassidy was a girl
Something to keep in mind Henry in that speech referencing Charlotte being the first wound is speaking about is how they kids were killed and fused to the animatronics. Charlotte was the first of Williams victims to possess and trapped inside an animatronic. Also something we don't talk about a lot. Elizabeth is completely absent in the CC minigames in FNAF4, there definitely implication that Elizabeth is already dead. I genuinely believe that William discover Remnant through his daughter possessing baby. The timeline that makes the most sense:
-William kills the MCI kids, stuffs their body in animatronics
-William kills Charlie in revenge against Henry
-Charlie possess the puppet and shepherds the souls of MCI kids to their bodies allowing them to possess the animatronics
-William builds the fun time minigames to trap and kill more kids which leads to Elizabeth's death
-William realizes that his daughter is possessing Baby and begins experimenting on Remnant
-Crying Child is accidently killed by Michael Afton
-William promises to bring CC back using his experiments with Remnant
-William realizes the FNAF animatronics are possessed and attempts to trap and dismantle them to continue his experiments on remnant
-The MCI Kids corner William and William gets springlocked
This is great, tho Crying child could easily be interchanged anywhere! (i’d probably put him first)
wait so, if cc didnt die first why would william kill charlie as revenge if there was nothing to get revenge for?
@@NarkyLMAO psychopath's don't necessarily need a reason.
12:26 I like how people have read this line in 3 different ways, and no one can agree on how many of them are true as they can all co-exist.
1. Layer 1, Chica/Susie was the first to go in the Missing Children's Incident(most people agree on this, but some people who take Pizza Party super literally insist it's Freddy/Gabriel)
2. Layer 2, the MCI came first(heavily disputed for every reason mentioned in this video
3. Layer 3, Chica was literally THE oldest animatronic of them all(Not backed by a ton of evidence, but it's a popular fan theory that Chica was originally part of thee Mediocre Melodies, and that whatever their original location was(run by Henry, not William) came first.(Probably at least 1972/73 based on Phone Guys lines in FNAF 1)
I don’t mind this timeline. I’m still curious after the MCI who the person arrested still is and if it’s significant
It's definitely Afton since there's no other killer present at the time. He somehow just got away with it.
Maybe he framed Henry after both missing children's incidents.
I always thought the Henry angle gives him a more satisfying reason to be absent for 30 years
@@avengerboy2171Which explains why Henry was gone for so long.
@@tobysinbadSame here.
Crying child dying was an accident.
As a form of revenge, William makes the fun times so that he can kill charlotte emily while having it also look like an accident. However it backfired when Elizabeth is killed instead.
Seeing this, Henry creates the puppet
Out of revenge and desperation William just straight up murders charlotte outside the restaurant.
MCI then happens afterwards as William starts seeing the effects the previous deaths have had on the animatronics.
I’d also say Cassidy’s death could fit either before or after charlotte without much changing.
This works the best to me because it works with Henry’s speech about it about a wound first inflicted on him. CC and Elizabeth’s deaths were accidents, but then charlotte is the first intentional murder.
As someone who is Wiccan, thank you for research on the poppet dolls and the simple fact that they are supposed to be for positive rituals, not negative. I've seen some other fnaf youtubers and fans call them "voodoo dolls" or try to make the dolls themselves out to be a bad thing all together. It's such a small gesture to have your religion respected, but you did your research and pointed out the stereotypes in media and that made me smile. : )
I used to be wiccan and i have a hoodoo shop in my town, I’m so glad he got this right
Rye really is so wholesome and does their best to respect others. I’m so happy for you that you found a place your religion is respected and accurately shown! I hope that this information being shown and respected here can help teach others.
Imagine thinking you’re being oppressed by a serial killer in a video game made trophies of his victims. 😂😂😂
@@madamplatypus313 ...Bro what are you talking about? I think you replied to the wrong comment.
@@farawayxgalaxy*his
The old timeline, where it's CC first, then Charlie, then MCI, then DCI and then Elizabeth could still work. Hell even Elizabeth being before MCI or between MCI and DCI could work.
It all comes down to how you read the gravestones. I think I am aligning more with Fuhnaff's reading of that sequence; it's not who died first, but who got put to rest first.
I have a bit of a theory on C.C. (Crying Child) that I've had in the back of my mind for awhile and would like some thoughts on.
The horrific thing C.C. saw was a springlock failure.
I always found it odd that C.C. didn't really seem to be scared of the animatronics in general, rather just the yellow springlock suits, and out of the nightmare variations of the originals, only Nightmare Fredbear had a stomach mouth, rather than all of them. I believe that C.C. saw someone putting on the Freabear springlock suit, but for one reason or another, ends up getting springlocked and dying, with C.C. misinterpreting it as Fredbear eating someone whole though his stomach. He tries to tell someone about what he saw, but no one believes him, with everyone (particularly Michael) saying he's just being irrational. William, knowing what C.C. actually saw, uses this to his advantage and creates the nightmares, manipulating his son into being more fearful of the animatronics to get him to stay away from them (which we all know how that turns out).
Side note, I've always found it odd that there were nightmare versions of Freddy, Bonnie, Chica, Foxy, and even Freadbear, yet not one of Spring-Bonnie (the closest we get to that being Plushtrap). I've always wondered if that was always an intentional detail, seeming how it kind of lines up with the next bit. Assuming C.C. died before Charlie, it would make more sense as to why William even kills Charlie in the first place. It's implied (in the books I believe) that William had always been jealous of Henry, one second comparing him to the devil, and praising him like a god the next. Now angry and bitter that his youngest son died to Fredbear (Henry's creation/suit), he blamed Henry for his son's early death and would make Henry suffer the pain of losing someone they cared about.
spoiler theory
Wild theory here, but just a thought.
The possible order we are presented with for the kids' deaths if you take the tombstones literally when we unlock the Bonnie mask are: 0 Chica/Susie, 1 Foxy/Fritz, 2 Freddy/Gabriel, 3 Bonnie/Jeremy, 4 Golden Freddy/Cassidy, 5 Puppet/Charlotte.
Hear me out.
What if the puppet, with what we know now about a mimic ai program, connecting net of thinking and masks and the story as it stands now, gave these kids masks? I always thought it weird that whenever we see the foxy mask kid in the house, his eyes are just black dots. But when we see all the kids in the pizza place carrying crying child, they have white dots for eyes. That's the standard "I'm possessed" eyes, or even with the Fredbear plush it's "Im controlled by something else" eyes.
As far back as I know in the first game we have always assumed the puppet was first because of the Give Gifts Give Life mini game.. but what are we really looking at there?
Certainly, there are dead children, and the puppet is giving them gifts. We assumed this is the puppet stuffing them into the suits because this game is all about stuffing kids into animatronics. But what the image actually shows us is.. masks.
After the masks are given out, we get the Golden Freddy jumpscare which makes sense as that's the final victim on the tombstone list. "The one you should not have killed" Why is this kid any different than any other kid William killed up till this point?
Phone Guy Night 6 fnaf 2: "Uh, the place is closed down, at least for a while. Someone used one of the suits. We had a spare in the back, a yellow one, someone used it... Now none of them are acting right. Listen, j-just finish your shift. I-It’s safer than trying to leave in the middle of the night. Uh, we have one more event scheduled for tomorrow, a birthday. "
In Ultimate Custom Night, we get this line Marionette: "The others are like animals, but I am very aware"
What if the spirits possessing the animatronics are different than who the puppet gives the masks to? After all, it's alluded that William himself stuffed those kids into the suits. But there are also times we see more children in the games just off to the side, foxy finds them. The ones who start not acting right, those seem like what's stuffed in the suits. It was always weird to me that in the games we kept being told the animatronics were roaming, doing things they had in their programming, just not at the right times or correct ways. Not really omg they are possessed. The only clue indicated that they have something other than program quirks to tell us what's going on is the smell and ooze. Maybe they weren't active right away. Just seems like a weird detail that they function mostly normally up to a point so much so that the place doesnt know there are dead things inside.
What if the puppet, to get revenge, put masks on separate kids who had died in the pizzeria, and controlled them to murder the crying child after Cassidy is murdered? What if that's the point we get the fnaf 2 puppet stare-down cut scene. Why else would William give the crying child a doll to continuously remind him "remember what you saw", "be careful", and hurry him to an exit. "you know what will happen if he catches you" "he hates you."
I think at the time of the game the puppet was still meant to be a male.
The only hitch I had to this theory for a while was Henry. "A wound first inflicted on myself" If the puppet dies last how does this make sense?
Those are separate theories, including Michael being stolen by William, as well as all of the info we skipped in the game involving the grandfather clocks, the grandfather song, the old man looking sprite in the house infront of the tv, the fact a building is called juniors in a story where the first franchise must have started in the 30's, well before william or henry could have lived. Grandpa Afton/Emily. But again that's separate.
What is interesting is that the Puppet doll is the one you get from punching 1983 which very well continues to confirms that Charlie did die in 1983.
0:17 I absolutely LOVE this art of Cassies dad, it's so cool that he's drawn with a compression glove and hearing aids, and the artstyle looks like it would fit right in as a cardboard cutout around the pizzaplex
I really like this theory, but something that puts a wrinkle in it for me is that in the FNAF 3 tapes it is said that the spring suits are discontinued when customers are being taken in the safe room
Am I the only one that still thought that the 4 missing children was always the first death despite anything new within the last few years.
Like I just don't see any narrative reason for why Henry's kid would be the first to die by William's hand.
I agree with this though I always thought the cry child died first. Although he still might be and the golden freddy gravestone would then be cassidy
because the wound that is losing a child was "first inflicted on him"?/lh
Well, if you wanna take this from the books, it would be due to the whole thing of him going back and forth between jealousy and worship of Henry.
I recently realized that FNAF's lore problems are because it has just too much evidence that allows for multiple possible timeline of events and no consensus can ever be reached on the actual storyline. The MCI dying first means William was a greedy lunatic, Charlie dying first means he was jealous of Henry, and C.C dying first means everything else he does is motivated by grief and vengeance. And these are all valid ways of looking at his character, but I don't see why Help Wanted 2 needed to add even more evidence instead of just confirming what we thought was the main sequence of events (C.C, Charlie, MCI, Elizabeth). The UCN voicelines hinted at many different fan theories and headcanons, so why doesn't this game do the same thing? It's probably because it just doesn't matter which incident takes place first, the simplest timeline is that some kids die, William goes crazier, Michael gets scooped, and supposedly everyone is burned in FNAF 6. But boy does this make everyone's characterization inconsistent, to the point that fans have to insert their headcanons about what each character is like in terms of personality and motivation, and everytime the games or books imply anything else, fans get mad.
TL;DR: nobody who worked on Help Wanted 2 has heard of Occam's Razor
The fact you’re just talking about the fnaf timeline while petting cats is just amazing
I've been saying for a while that I thought the MCI were before Charlie, but that she was the first "true" posession and that "giving life" just meant allowing them to be in control of the animatronics, instead of just being confused spirits
Doesn’t work cause of Henry line and cause they possessed the suit in the books WITHOUT Charlie
@@mynameisntimportant1374 But the book is in a different continuity.//
@@Horatio786 and ? People use the books for proof but I can’t ?
1:02 nah he’s the middle son, Elizabeth is the youngest, that bed in the girl’s bedroom in the fnaf 4 minigames is a cradle, it’s confirmed in a fnaf ar teaser.
I think the PQ4 graves are backwards, in terms of the placement of the incidents. The player is going through both their own and Glitchtrap’s memories to reach the Bite of 83, with the Bonnie mask. Commonly in media, and just plain logic, if you’re going through memories, the most recent events would come first. The MCI is in the correct order, since both the player and Glitchtrap wouldn’t remember it as the death of each individual kid, but the incident as a whole; neither were actually there, given mimicry and all that. Then there’s Charlie, then the Bite. But again, if it’s all backwards, then the order would actually be the Bite, then Charlie, then the MCI, which not only works better with everything else in the franchise, but also works better as a narrative.
As for Fall Fest: I think it’s just showing us the start of the timeline. Henry and Afton run the Fall Fest in the 70s, it’s successful, and everything kicks off from there. I also kind of think Charlie may have died at Fall Fest 83; Henry would be busy running the festival, leaving Charlie alone at Freddy’s/Fredbear’s/WhereverTheHell. William would be able to know this, and then know he’s open to kill Charlie.
Nah thats overthinking it.
Think of it like this; charlotte dies After security puppet and monitor bracelets are being used. If its CC > charlie > MCI, how would bracelets made to monitor where every kid in the building is prevent another bite of 83? Unless: they were made to prevent another incident which only happened because kids were left *unmonitored* and went to a *place* in the building which they werent supposed to be in
I think Charlie being the last to die makes sense - I think the order of events is that the Crying Child, terrified after seeing someone getting springlocked by the animatronics, or simply by seeing the animatronics without their fuzzy exteriors, was bullied and eventually accidentally killed by his brother. Afton, driven to insanity after losing his son, decided he would try to rebuild him, since he was proficient in repairing machinery. But to do this, using his own warped line of logic, he'd need children to experiment on. So Freddy's temporarily closed since a child died there, and that's when Afton used modified Henry tech to build the funtime animatronics and open Circus Baby's Pizza World, with the express purpose of capturing kids to experiment on. This, I believe, was the wound Henry was referring to, the one that went unresolved and resulted in far more tragedies down the line. Unfortunately, this also led to Elizabeth's death, and Circus Baby's was shut down and Afton was ousted one of the co-owners of Fredbear's/Freddy's for using such dangerous technology in the first place.
Then, MCI happens, with Afton using the Springbonnie suit since he can't use the Funtime animatronics in a practical way besides trying to rent them to children's parties, and he gains access to the reopened Freddy locations as a security guard after using false aliases. Eventually, both fearing for his own child and business, Henry builds Security Puppet, and as one last cruel act of revenge against Henry, Afton kills Charlie when the other kids lock her outside. The puppet then uses her ability to place the lost souls into the suits, and eventually, he attempts to dismantle the suits to collect the bodies to experiment on remnant, until he's killed by the springlocks. I'm sure some smaller details need to be ironed out, but I'd say this makes sense of the timeline of the first 6 games pretty concisely.
Really good theory, but idk about that last part... I think Fallfest being the reason for the MCI is right, just not in that way. My idea is that Fallfest was William's thing. After all he is the one who makes the circus based pizzeria, Circus Baby's Pizza World, so it would make sense if he was the founder of Fallfest in 1970, which seems to have a circus/carnival theme too.
Then when he met Henry and they started working together, he had the idea of adding animatronics to the Fallfest in 1983. That year tho, because of a malfunction in Henry's animatronics, the whole thing caught on fire, ruining Afton's Fallfest. That would actually be supported by the Fazerblast minigame where we see the fire being caused by a malfunction of Dredbear.
my opinion - there's no way MCI happened before Charlie's death. spirits can't just possess the animatronics by themselves, and the "Give Gifts" minigame clearly shows that. Charlie is the one who gave life to the children, and she needs to die before them. also - it would be extremely weird if William killed Charlie before MCI. also, that would be extremely weird if William did such an absurd mistake as killing a child right in front of the restaurant. it needs to be his first kill - extremely emotional, impulsive, without any plan
(sorry for my english, not my first language)
Another point to support the timeline, the missing kids incident and Emily are both in black and white while the crying child and Elizabeth are in color, perhaps the timeline is following the development of technology, the first two were killed in the very early stages of video games, then once color was added the mini games got color as well. This might also explain why some video games have those lines through them, some of the cutscenes are being watched on old tvs, then as time goes on their emulated on higher quality screens when we see them (compare the first puppet mini game that you can barely make out, that we watch relatively early in the timeline at fnaf2, then the clear video game at fnaf6)
By that logic we could say the story was colorful till it degenerated
On one side the crying child’s death could have been what prompted security puppet. It was bullying that caused cc’ death, and the security puppet game slightly shows that Charlie might have been bullied (getting locked out and none of the kids caring). So maybe the puppet was made for that reason and not the missing child incident. Love the theories tho, great work!!!!
Rye should definitely make a theory on glamrock freddy and bonnie's relationship. That would be a fun one for Rye.
Maybe Valentine's Day...?
That's literally just gonna be shipping drama between team lovers and team brothers. I'm team brothers btw. Seen them as such as the main duo even during Fredbear's time.
People really ship those two? Uhhhh what about the dead children inside those robots??
@@sauce5097 glamrocks dont have children in them. Are you new to this?
@@boyhowdy682 You mentioned Freddy and Bonnie. Not the glamrocks. And it's still creepy shipping characters that previous iterations had dead children inside of them.
25:11 So... I have an idea based on this. Of course, no proof but kinda circunstancial evidence. What if the "a wound first inflicted on me, but one that I let bleed out to cause all of this" is even more literal? First time I saw Carnie, I was surprised he talked so much in such a "responsive" (ig?) way. He comments on specific things he sees (you look like you have kids), almost like a human is operating him. And he also starts screaming he's on fire. So... what if Henry WAS operating Carnie?
Maybe William started a fire to hurt him. Or maybe he didn't first intended to harm him, but that ignited something on William. It'd be a fun story, at the very least lol
Ok, this will be a big comment and you might not even see it but i think i should do it anyway, but i just wanted to say my point of view and thoughts, and honestly i like your theory, i just don't think we can forget the old bits of lore that i think you forgot about(?), especially the ones regarding Fredbear's Family Diner, since we barely have any information about it. Anyways, i love how the order MCI, Charlotte, Crying Child and Elizabeth just makes sense, but i dont think that's what all the evidences are telling us; the right order might be Charlotte, MCI, C.C. and Elizabeth. Ok, starting at the begining, William as Henry's deal (we have most of this information based on the novels): i agree that William might have already been messing with costumes and animatronics before this whole ordeal with Henry, but i dont think he was working on Fredbear's, i think William had his own little bussines that just messed with this kind of things, and that he worked with other companies (this explains the Fall Fest and Fnaf 1 Phone Guy's speach, which both confirm that the animatronics exist, at least, sinse the 70s). Now, we know William is capable of doing his own animatronics, mainly because of SL, but also because of the trilogy (this little business may or may not be Afton Robotics, i dont think it matters anyway). Getting out of especulation, William and Henry created Fredbear's Family Diner together, there's nothing explicitly proving the opposite (and that's what the trilogy tells); now, it could be Scott being inconsistent with his desings (wouldn't be a first), but there's a chance that there might've been two different Fredbear's Family Diners, one which was where Charlie died and another which the Crying Child died. The first is where Charlie died, and in the novels, it is described as a remote, simple and smal place. In the games, one place that fits this characteristcs is fnaf 6, where it's shown in the start of the game that the Pizza Place is in the middle of nowhere, and is a smal establishment with only two tables and is totally made out of wood. The place in the fnaf 3 minigame is also brown, and even in the minigame "Take Cake to the Children" it is smal, considering that it is, indeed, Fredbears. But the Fredbears that the Crying Child dies is very different from this, its in the middle of the city, the place isn't as little as the Pizzaria Simulator one and definitely is not as simple. But the place is not the only difference, the animatronics desing also are; i know we all have in mind that Springbonnie and Fredbear are all yellow with purple accessories, but the only times we see then like that are on the fnaf 4 minigames, in UCN and in Help Wanted with Glitchtrap. Every other sprite or drawing about then they are that yellow-ish brown with black accessories, like the fnaf 3 minigames, the posters on Security Breach (especially with "Fredbear's singing show" one), and im sure we can include the 'Take Cake' minigame not only bc the books said Charlie died in Fredbears but also because the remake of that minigame in fnaf 6 (the one at the start of the game) also has a yellow-ish brown bear with black accessories. The only different one is the graphic novels, where Springbonnie and Fredbear trully are yellow, but they still have the black hat and bowtie.
Ok, but how does this works? In order, Willian and Henry created Fredbear's Family Diner together, that first place was made before Fazbear Entertainment and had the yellow-ish brown with black hat and bowtie Springlock animatronics, along with the security puppet. In the early's 1983, Willian kills Charlie and not to much later that Fredbears is closed. Some time before or after this, Fazbear Entertainment is Created along with the classic "unwithered" gang, and at some point, the Springlocks start to be used in this (or those) location. Late in the same year, they decide to open the Diner again, as a location belonging to Fazbear Entertainment (as that old fnaf 4 teaser says it does) in the fnaf 4 minigame place, but this time, probably bc Fredbear looks a lot like Freddy, they decide to give the old models a slight redesing, making them fully yellow and with purple accessories. I think what happened to them is the same think that happened to the classic gang, where they remodeled the older ones (the fixed whithereds) to the newer (the fnaf 1 models). The biggest clues for this are pretty much forgotten, but i honestly dont blame anyone (there's so much nowadays), but anyways, you know how HW just gives us the date of the Fazbear Entertainment creation? The TUG (The Ultimate Guide) also gives us what used to be the exact date of Charlies death, november 11th of 1982. The only reason i say this is not true anymore is because that Fredbear's was supposedly closed not so long after Charlies death, but since SB showed that the Diner was still open in 83 i think they changed her death to late 82 to early 83, and since MCI83 happens in june 26, Charlie has to be the first one to die. This old date for her death is also a proff itself of this "TwoDiners" theory, since Fazbear Entertaiment was created in 83, but before Security Breach, Charlie died in the late 82, so there has to be an old establishment that isnt Freddy's, since it didn't exist yet, but it also can't be fnaf 4's Fredbear's Family Diner bc that Diner is also an Fazbear Entertainment property, so it has to be something else. You can say that this date is not canon anymore so it can't be used to theorise, but as much as it can't be used it also can be, so do whatever you want, i guess.
So, the Crying Child's death was in 83? Yes, it was. I know that is really strange the way Scott just threw this date in a random spot in the game, but for this, we can't look at it with lore in mind, we have to look at it with Scott Cowthon in mind: When fnaf 4 was being made, Scott probably made this bite to be the Bite of 87, but for some reason he decided to change this, and make this another bite (probably something to do with he wanting fnaf 4 to be explaining how a kid was imagining all the fnaf lore), so he just gave us this date in a silver plate to make it clear that it is the Bite of 83, and not 87.
And about a reason for the original Fredbear's to have security puppet is pretty much like you said, just to have security. Like, in the minigame we literally have to prevent the children from going outside. I dare to say that during this time, the Puppet's gifts were those bracelets the kids were using, probably some kind of tracker to alert him when children are getting close to the exit, so he can stop them from leaving and apparently even go out to bring them back inside. It's clear to say that after the possesion and the transfer, the puppet was reporpused to be in Freddy's prize counter to give plushies or those masks or whatever to the children or the birthday kids insted of being security.
And lastly, one thing that this order gives an answer to is the Springlocks. The suits are, in some way or another, in all these important events, and interesting enought, they tell their own story. You may notice how i said earlyer that after Fredbear's Family Diner closes the Springlock suits went to be used at Freddy's, and that is true. In fnaf 3, the training tapes in nights 2 and 3, Phone Guy is explaining how to handle/climb into/climb out of the Springlocks suits, yet a lot of times he says for us to smile cuz we're the face of Freddy Fazbear's Pizza. Later, in the night 4 tape, he says that there has been a change of company policy regarding the use of the suits, and that is 'DONT use the suit', cuz there was multiple Springlock failures in some sister location and the "classic suits" were deemed "temporarily unfit for employees" and are being "retired to an appropriate location while being looked at by our technician", and "until replacements arrive, you'll be expected to wear the temporary costumes provided to you", and he also makes it very clear that the classic suits are not supposed to be touched, activated or worn. In night 5 tape, he makes a "reminder of company policy concerning the safe room", and all he says can be read as "there is someone messing around the safe room and even bringing guests in there, stop it" (interesting to say that in this part he uses 'other property not being currently used' when speaking of the Springlock suits), and he also says how "the Springbonnie animatronics has been noticeably moved" and another reminder to don't use the suit. What all this means is how there are classic Springlock suits being used at Freddy's, and when an incident happens and the suits are retired to an specific location to be fixed and/or upgraded by an specific technician (that location is definitely the first Freddy's and that tech is definitely William) and are not supposed to be used. Then, someone is using the Springbonnie suit, is messing around in the safe room and bringing guests there. Looks like some missing children incident, right? Yeah, i think this is telling the "suits pov" of the MCI, or however you wanna call it. The last tape is just Phone Guy talking about closing the safe room with a false wall in most locations duo to budget restrictions. Now, the tapes dont have to be from one day after the other, they can, and likely have, a time period between each other. I dont know if the Springlock failure in that sister location is important, likely not since it was never mentioned ever again.
Im pretty sure we never, and likely never will, get a look on what those temporarily costumes looked like and how they worked, but im sure that the redesingned Springbonnie and Fredbear in fnaf 4 are the replacements that P.G. talks about. I don't know if the replacements were ever used in Freddy's, i don't think it makes a difference anyways.
Sooooo, all this also kind of inplies that the first Freddy's was in the same location as the fnaf 1 one, aaaaand i.. thiiiink.. that's it? Good God i hope ALL this makes sense and i got my points proven 😭
Oh yeah Golden Freddy also has that yellow with black hat and bowtie style in fnaf 1, but in fnaf 2 he is that yellow-ish brown with black hat and bowtie
I dont believe fall fest would be able to happen before the MCI considering that the MCI is suspected to be in the summer. If MCI is summer of 83 and fall fest is in 83 it wouldnt work.
The area with the Bonnie Bro mask has 6 lights, so maybe this order works. Interesting idea to ponder.
You have GREAT arguments here, but here's something I think we're all missing: Crying Child HAS to die before Charlotte, because of "Midnight Motorist."
We know "Midnight Motorist" is titled "LATER THAT NIGHT," and considering the rain and the purple car, it's like a 95% chance that it's referring to the night Charlotte Emily died. And part of the evidence for William being the driver, aside from the purple car, is that the path from JR's to the driver's house is the exact same as the path as Fredbear's to Crying Child's. We're all pretty much in agreement that JR's was built over Fredbear's, meaning Fredbear's has to be CLOSED the NIGHT that Charlotte Emily died. Crying Child dies in Fredbear's, so logically it has to be open during that. Crying Child has to die before the restaurant closes, meaning he has to die BEFORE Charlotte Emily.
Also one other thing but with the newspapers referencing two missing kids: I think you missed that the LAST two were the ones to get lured, not the first. It's after two are lured that a suspect is caught on camera and arrested; the next newspaper then says that five children are now LINKED, not that they're "now missing." It's most likely that the last two died at once, and then the police linked all the incidents together.
The puppet mini game isn't proof that the puppet died first. It's only proof that the puppet was possessed first while the others were just spirits without physical connections if the graves depict the order. That's my thoughts on it.
Man, I love how you make the theories and the timeline,happy new year🎉🎉.
16:00
"Small souls trapped in prisons of my making, now set to new purpose, and used in ways I never thought imaginable."
"Are they still, aware? I hope not. It keeps me awake at night. I could make myself…sleep. But not yet. Not until I undo what he has done, and heal this wound.
A wound first inflicted on me, but then one that I let bleed out to cause, all of this."
"I don’t know how those tiny breaths of life came to inhabit those machines, but they will never find rest now - not like this. I have to call them, all back. All of them. Together, in one place."
From what I can gather from Henry's FNaF 6 speech, the "wound" Henry is referring to is the small souls trapped inside his creations.
And to heal this "wound", aka, freeing the souls from the animatronics, he creates Paragraph 4, the plan to trap and burn the animatronics in FNaF 6.
In this context of the "wound", it's simply letting us know that Charlotte was the first to possess an animatronic, not that she died first.
I hope that helps :)
What if the gravestones being lit up in HW2 is just meant to represent the order which each child moved on?
I love how your editing always manages to improve! What we see on the screen is so dynamic and often never static :) !
let's see the final FNAF theory of the year
Oh yeah I guess it is
@@RyeToast indeed it is
Charlie comes before MCI. Both CC and Charlie die in 1983. The books on now HW2 solidify this. William hated the fact that “Henry’s” animatronic killed CC so he blames Henry and kills Charlie
I assumed that it was first C.C, Charlotte, Missing children, Elizabeth
I think a wound first inflicted on me could mean that Henry built fredbear that killed the crying child
It’s worth pointing out that in fnaf 1 there’s a child’s drawing of Bonnie popping out of what looks like the Puppet’s box. This could imply the Puppet replaced Bonnie in the prize corner and Bonnie was moved to the main stage. Another thing I think is good to point out is that while the Funtimes are advanced,they aren’t murder machines. They’re kidnapping machines. To me,that shows character growth in William. He goes from kidnapping kids to killing them. I also maintain the argument that Spring Bonnie and Fredbear can’t be at Freddy’s until after Crying Child’s death so the MCI as we know it happened literally can’t happen until after Crying Child dies (technically,it’s not confirmed William used the Golden Spring Bonnie suit for the first MCI as fnaf 3 does tell us there are spring lock suits at Freddy’s but we know Fredbear is Golden Freddy and the Vengeful Spirit gets stuffed in Golden Freddy)
regarding the first thing, isnt fnaf 2 supposed to be a prequel? maybe its the other way around
@@NarkyLMAO It could,except the puppet’s box isn’t in FNAF 1 which would imply this drawing had to be from an earlier location
Damn, predicted the fallfest game 8 months or so before it was announced. I think these SteelWool guys know how to leave breadcrumbs for the theorizers
Maybe "first inflicted upon me" is said because no one knew where the mci kids were. But everyone knew where Charlie was.
I don't hate the idea though that Henry was a foster parent. There are several Candy Cadet stories about 5 into 1. Including one about a person adopting 5 kids and losing them all.
That said I'm still convinced Elizabeth was first and the kidnapping tech was retrofitted.
Also because the MCI is in 1985
Short and simple alright. Henry’s newly installed hydraulics into Fredbears jaw snaps shut on Williams youngest son. William does not know his oldest son made that happen and automatically assumes Henry killed him since he installed the hydraulics. William retaliates and murders his daughter who is trapped outside by bullies. That happens in 1983 which tells us both of their youngest children died in the same year. Freddy’s opens in that same year and Henry has his suspicions but focuses on making the new location better. William checks out the new location and sees the puppet with tears on its mask which he realises that Charlie is still around. That gives him the impression he can bring back his child like he promised him and it also can potentially make him immortal so he lives forever. So for his own plans and to ruin Henry even more, he goes to the blocked off safe room and puts on his favourite rabbit suit on. He then finds Susie playing a game and tells her he can help her with her dog. So he then gains her trust leaving him to find a young Fritz watching foxy perform. He lies to him about something like getting a closer look at foxy, gaining his trust. Then on that night of June 26th 1985 when the animatronics are turned off for the day, everyone is playing some games or something before it closes which distracts them letting William not be seen with these kids. He takes them to the safe room and murders them. Unfortunately for him the cameras catch him in that hallway walking out and the parents report the kids go missing. They bring William in but no bodies were found nor any of the two kids were found alive so then pronounced dead sadly. He gets released then another night he returns and lures three more children to that safe room and murders them. The last one which we know is Cassidy, he goes berserk and messes her up badly before having to hide her in Fredbear. But again it’s like he forgot about the cameras and got caught once again. But again no bodies were found. Then the over the weeks parents smell weird odours radiating from the animatronics and report to the police about mucus around the mouth which leads to them closing down because of the mci and the sanitation problem. Then William is able to move far away for 2 years and becomes a fake identity knows as Dave Miller to not get caught if he is guilty. For 2 years Henry doesn’t know what to do since he knows his old business partner is a murderer and might do it again but since he hasn’t seen him in a while, he decides to create these toy animatronics with face recognition to identify predators. While away, William heard about Freddy’s reopening and decided to go back to once again screw Henry. He returns as Dave Miller and becomes the night time security guard to check the place out. Over the week he notices the old withered ones moving around and coming after him which scares him but he survives and gets moved to the day shift. A new guard by the name of Jeremy Fitzgerald takes the role and does a week there. In that week, William strikes again and puts on his rabbit suit and murders 5 more children in plain sight leaving their bodies slumped there on the ground for something to find them. Presumably Thursday the phone guy warns Jeremy that someone used a suit and done something bad telling him to leave. The toy animatronics become aggressive and come after him. On the Saturday he is walking around and was told to fix Mangle since kids messed her up but Mangle chomps him and kills him. So the place has only been open for a few short weeks but is already closing down and so Fritz Smith does the last two days there which he survives but he gets fired for odour and tampering with the robots which seems to be on purpose. Then the place shuts down and Henry scraps the new robots for not working and recycles the old endos from 85 to eventually reopen in a few years.
After those events, William knows a lot about robotics now thanks to Henry and wants to continue creating robots and murdering children so he decides to build an underground bunker under his house to create his own Funtime animatronics to kidnap and kill children so he can experiment. His daughter Elizabeth finds about the main attraction Circus Baby and wants to play with her but obviously his robots will harm her so he tells her to stay away from it. William then opens up Circus Baby’s Pizza World to make money and again be a horrible person but Elizabeth decides to disobey her fathers words and finds Baby’s room where she is meant to be so she goes up close to her and William installed a claw inside her stomach that grabs children so unfortunately Baby pulls her in and kills her in an instant. For that reason the newly opened restaurant closes down and William puts it down to gas leaks. He is enraged that she didn’t listen but has hope she is alive so he sends Mike down there to try and find her while he works on his experiments. Since a lot of people believe Henry reopens Freddy’s one last time in 1992 Mike goes looking for his sister while William goes to Freddy’s to gain more remnant. William knows his victims are possessing the suits so he puts on a purple Freddy suit to gain their trust once again and lure them to the exact same room they died in 8 years ago and uses an axe to destroy them. He thinks his job is done there but he can’t leave as his victims spirits can access the safe room trapping him in there and presumably Cassidy chases him scaring him while he swings his knife in fear leading him to hide in his infamous rabbit suit. He taunts them and laughs thinking he escaped them. We know the location is a low budget one so the roof leaks and a drop of water goes into the endo joints and he is moving inside of the suit so it then triggers the spring locks and crushes his bones and his insides. He screams for someone to get it off but the spirits watch him fall to his knees and against the wall struggling they disappear leaving him there. Mike in the underground bunker finds his sister but she turns on him basically and his insides get scooped out allowing the newly formed Ennard to escape through his body. Ok I could keep going but fuck me it’s long
I had a thought that Cassie’s dad is Jeremy from help wanted 1, who sliced his own face off. I have a lot of reasons but it something to maybe think about
Alright I'm curious now what's your reasons?
As the plushies fade in FNAF 4 we HEAR AN ACTUAL FLAT - LINE sound… if you ask me, it’s cut and dry that he’s dead!
What if the order of the graves isn’t the order of DEATHS but the order of when the spirits move on after Happiest Day
One way to make "a wound first inflicted on me" work with MCI being first is just making Susie a relative of Henry
It is an overly simplistic theory with no good evidence to back it but it works
One thing to add to your evidence of the Bonnie mask referring to the Bite of 83 (and therefore being between Charlie and elizabeth's death) is that the entryway to the Bonnie mask chest has 6 dots surrounding it. Which, the Puppet's grave has 5, placing the Bite of 83 as the next major event after Charlie
I always though Charlotte died first just it kinda makes sense for willian to kill Henry's child to get revenge in some sick way of losing the crying child and could also show how william discover remnemt
omg your explanation at the end made so much sense! I really hope your timeline is right because it would really tie all these events together nicely and with reason.
Hey I noticed something. So, we play as Bonnie bro from FNAF 4 right. Well, you get an achievement when you get the bonnie doll which says, "remember Jeremy?" Why would it bring up Jeremy out of all people. At first, I thought maybe the crying child but I'm not sure yet. The only issue about this theory is that phrase has also been used for the Help Wanted character Jeremy. I have more proof that Jeremy is the name of the crying child, but I don't know for certain.
Wasn't Jeremy the kid who possessed Bonnie? It could be another Refrence to that if so
Another issue I didn't realize is that there is also tombstone that has Jeremy's name on it. Which could go both ways but it's just an idea. In FNAF 1 the phone was talking about the bite of 87 which when putting that into the custom night we get jump scared by golden Freddy. In FNAF 2 it IS 1987 and oddly enough we play as a person name Jeremy. Not only that but we have characters jump scare biting the characters head. Though In FNAF 4 we see yet another point in time the chomp of 1983. This is odd because if there was yet another bite with a yeah nearly unknown of. Not only that but Fred bear is the one who does it and when we type in 1987 in the custom night like I said Golden Freddy comes up. I think that the year 1987 was reckoned. And instead, he went with 1983 instead. I also have something else. In FNAF Help Wanted 2 in the secret sister location room when you have to get the bonnie memory. You have to type in 1983 in that to get it to work. And sure, enough that's the same memory that you get the achievement "remember Jeremy." I really hope you read this cause if not then I just said all this for nothing.
You get the rembember jeremy achievement when you get a doll for the first time
@@xXmoonlight_heartXx Could have been if that's the case then my entire theory goes sideways! 😅
@@isabelortiz1230 Yes I explained that why would remember Jeremy come up as an achievement when the comp of 83 happened before the missing kids' incident.
"It helps to have a reason for the puppet to exist" You mean like a bunch of bullies accidentally killing a little boy?
Exactly 💯
amazing job RyeToast & Happy New Year !
Thank you!! Happy New Year!
I like how this Theory actually simplifies a lot of things. It also makes a lot of sense considering the order the original games came out in: the MCI (FNAF 1), then Charlie (introduced in FNAF 2), then the crying child (FNAF 4), and then Elizabeth (FNAF 5). I'm not necessarily sold on Afton being the one to burn Fall Fest down, but I think the theory still holds water without him being the culprit of that particular incident. MatPat putting the crying child's death first, in order to give Afton motive to kill Charlie, does make for a good story, but I think that train of thought is what has made the timeline so convoluted. This seems simpler and closer to the evidence actually presented in the games.
Tbh it’s not at all sure the afton motivation is forced but this timeline it’s also very forced
Good to see a new video about hw 2
Gotta be done!
Help Panted 2?
This is fairly unrelated, but I just noticed it.
In the fnaf 4 cutscene where the crying child gets bitten, that's a Henry anamatronic. The bonny is William's spring lock suit. (Because of the jaw hinge. Can also be seen in leftie and in the fnaf 6 anamatronics.)
Has anyone covered that? Or is it even lore relevant?
Bro just upload 3 vids which concludes all lores of HW2 in 3 weeks 😂
I'm trying my damnedest lol
If you think about it we actually get two instances of a burning fall festival, one in fazerblast 4 and in the cinder carousel. You could probably also include Grim Foxy, Jack-o-Bonnie, and Jack-o-Chica as they are also on fire. They could have been at the fall fest when the fire happened. (But that’s only speculation on my part anyway.)
You know what that means!
FISH!
I DON'T
Fish??
@@RyeToast Ain't no way you actually responded. It's also my birthday lol
16:05 My issue is - why would that specifically refer to Charlie and not maybe a previous event that lead to it all? Especially as Henry directly talks to Charlie in that monologue, there could have been more allusions to her death being source of it all.
For all we know - this could be any tragedy. Henry made a lot of those animatronics, he could blame himself for Fredbear or Circus Baby (if those were his designs) - that lead to William's madness.
Or like Mr. Hippo said right in the next game after - It could have meant nothing at all. Just Henry doing a cool monologue for sake of a monologue.
On the other hand - the second part of that phrase - for it to bleed to others, he could also talk about events that happened after Charlie's death. Maybe her giving the life back to the children (the wound being Henry recognising Charlie within the Puppet) or it could refer to all the other tragedies that happened because of Charlie reviving the animatronics. For all he knew - missing children, just were missing. All the bites, were just tragedies. Robotic zombie apocalypse? That spread, because he made the Puppet. He calls animatronics monsters in that same monologue and he makes Lefty to bring and end his own daughter. He found a way for immortality and it scared him.
16:30 Other detail for me that supports Charlie being 6th - is that Puppet giving life mini-game doesn't happen every time one of the kid gets missing. We see four ghosts/bodies in that mini-game, there is no reason for Charlie to wait until another victim comes - she would revive them immediately like Puppet revived her. And then Golden Freddy would be special in it, either because it's already alive (either Cassidy's anger already keeping her going or Afton Jr. doing Puppets's job) or it's just an artistic choice, because Golden Freddy was type of Easter Egg in earlier games.
18:00 But also there was a lot of bad events before Missing Children incident and if Charlie was playing in that restaurant - Puppet could have been added solely to keep her safe. Something an inventor father would do. It could also explain Puppets's design - quite different from all the other deadly machines Henry (and William?) have made before. Or it was made because of the Missing Children incident - to make sure it didn't happen again. Especially as those children were meant to dissappear inside the establishment.
21:10 Or one could lead to the other. Remember that one of the leading theories right now is that after Missing Children incident William was the main suspect, but couldn't be fully prosecuted due to lack of evidence. Who he would blame for it? Probably Henry, his co-owner and person who had access to the cameras and other stuff. Henry who probably didn't even try to defend him.
And then William after leaving jail - potentially drunk, mad and wet from the rain, very likely would be very bitter. To the point where he would just push all that anger on Charlie (either randomly or as revenge).
21:40 One detail to notice though - Puppet doesn't have a specific number assigned, it's more than 4 - after Golden Freddy. Nothing says that Crying Child couldn't get bitten before Charlie's death. It would make even more sense to happen right after Missing Children Incident, if Cassidy was already tweaking (we don't actively see Puppet give life to her and Happy Days mini-game is confusing enough that it could imply either Cassidy or Crying Child) - and it could also be the main reason the suit since then has been always in the costume mode, to not lead to more tragedies.
On the other hand - aside 6 graves. That part of Princess Quest 4 has the secret location to the Bonnie mask. The stones around the stairs also have lights - 6 for every kid with a grave. But it could also be done to show us that Bite of 83 happened after both Missing Children and Charlie Emily incidents. Crying Child having 6 gems.
In that interpretation Bonnie mask would represent Bite of 83. Especially, if we are playing as the Bonnie-bro, that would be his link to the event.
22:40 Oh nice you actually are talking about it, as well.
26:40 Welp.
William has to be killing for a reason. If it turns out he's killing for no reason then I'm going to be very pissed.
You fight Cardboard Springtrap in the Shooting Gallery at Fall Fest, this could be a hint that Afton burned down Fall Fest.
Super awesome video. I really enjoyed seeing your take on the timeline when it comes to the order of the tragedies of the 8 children. And the way you integrated Fallfest is really cool too. Man, I am pumped to see what Fallfest is all about if FNaF decides to fully explore it in the next mainline game.
This actually fixes everything in the lore!
Ironically, it's just speculation DISPROVED by another speculation XD.
Nice video Rye!
I think the security puppet was made to keep kids safe from animatronic accidents, not because of the MCI. So the order is something like:
1. 1983- CC gets bit at Fredbear's, dies and the restaurant closes.
2. 1983-1985(?)- Security Puppet is built to keep kids safe from the dangerous animatronics, Charlie is killed outside of Freddy's.
3. 1985(?)- MCI happens, Freddy's closes.
4. 1987- New Freddy's opens, William kills more kids and the restaurant closes after only a few weeks.
5. 1987(?)- Circus Baby's opens, with William intending to perform tests on kids, but Elizabeth dies and the restaurant closes and Circus Baby's rentals opens.
A bit off topic sorry, but I love coming to watch you specifically because of how loving your cats are. They must trust and love you a lot and always makes my day. On topic: i love watching how this kind of things shifts and grows, and I'm hoping we'll learn more about the fun fest soon! The mimic has costumes you could reasonably have at a local fair, so maybe we'll get more info when we see Cassy again?
Rye toast:this is not a disproving comment, this is simply my observation in a way to promote discussion
The wound Henry got first was his kid being murdered so the order has always been pretty cut and dry to me, has to be Crying child, Charlie, MCI at least, and from there is when things become up for debate
your conclusion feels so satisfying wth!
great work :0
notice that in the VR section of Princess Quest 4, you have to "climb down a hole", and it feels oddly familiar to the hole in the main lobby/FNaF 6 pizzeria sim that leads to Burntrap, the Mimic and M.X.E.S
long time viewer, first time commenter (lol)
i think a less narratively satisfying possible answer to the whole "wound inflicted on me first" vs. the missing children incident could be that the missing children are just that---missing. they wouldn't technically be considered dead/murdered, especially at the time that charlie is killed. pretty flimsy, i know, but still.
all that aside, great video as always! love your channel, keep up the fantastic work!!
Isn't this also ignoring the fact that golden freddy, golden bonnie, and the puppet are all at Fazbear's family diner, not Freddie's pizzeria? More specifically that one of the MCI children (Cassidy) winds up stuffed into the golden freddy outfit which would have to be present at Fazbear's at the same time to cause the bite of '83?
I understand where you're coming from, but without reconciling that I think that the bite of '83 HAS to come before the MCI.
On another side note, have we ever established how the puppet winds up at Freddie's Pizzeria to "give gifts give life"? Is it simply moved with the golden animatronics?
I guess Henry built Fredbear because of the similar building of Rockstars and William's child died from Henry's creation
I just can’t see the Crying Child being killed anywhere but first. It just makes too much sense that that incident sparks William’s murder spree. Especially since Fredbear’s is open first and it wouldn’t make much business sense to have Fredbear’s and Freddy’s competing for revenue with characters that confuse the branding. In the particular theory speculated in the video the crying child could be killed just about anywhere. Heck he could have seen things at fall fest that made home scared of the animatronics and then later that year his birthday takes place and that is when the bite happens.
"A wound first inflicted on me" could be more personal. Rather than Henry saying he is the first victim, he's saying Afton threw the first blow between two of them, and that was when Henry first realized for a fact Afton was the villain. Then, rather than stopping the now identified villain, Henry left, allowing Afton's evil to 'bleed out' and continue to hurt others.
I was skeptical at first when you talked about the order of events on that last theory but as you explained it i do see how it works with the Fall Fest being the kickoff of Williams insanity then MCI, Charlie, Crying Child and Elisabeth.
Its so convoluted in the story placements you really have to look into all the possibilites for the story to work especially the MCI being Missing and animatronics being soulless and Charlie killed after but before the give the souls/presents to the animatronics and for crying child to be scared for that very reason does make sense.
Im just casually trying to understand the order of things watching MatPats videos this in my mind gives a very overarching understanding, thank you for that!