If I had to guess I’d say Horned King is popular in Japan because he’s a lot like the demon king archetype you see in a lot of anime, manga, and video games.
Fun fact: In Japanese he was voiced by the late Shōzō Iizuka, who among many others he voiced the Demon King in "Grimm's Fairy Tale Classics" and of course in "The Seven Deadly Sins".
The fact that the Horned King was the villain in a few Mickey games is kind of fitting in a meta sense, seeing as The Black Cauldron was seen as Disney's lowest point. Mickey might as well have defeated the Horned King using video cassettes of Disney Renaissance films.
Imagine if newer games had Jaeger Clade or Buck Cluck as bosses. Those movies were low points too. EDIT: King Magnifico is even more fitting. Edit: Imagine Mickey defeating Buck Cluck with MCU DVDs.
While the film overall certainly had problems which lead to it's failure, you can't deny that The Horned King was the absolute highlight, and arguably the only reason anyone still remembers this film existed. Disney has made some spectacular villains since, but very few have reached his level of creepy design. And John Hurt delivered an absolutely chilling vocal performance.
That inspiration is pretty obvious. Something less apparent might be the horned shadowy samurai horseman from the season 5 of Samurai Jack. Going by the description from the video, that one might have actually been inspired by the Horned King from the original books.
I definitely love to see something like that, he’s definitely dark, mysterious, and unholy enough to control Heartless, so I imagine him being able to control some very powerful heartless bosses
@@DuskoolNomura has stated Hades is his favorite Disney villian hence why Olympus is such a regular occurrence. Though I do wonder if Disney will try to quash that habit now that they seem to have burned all bridges with James Woods
I do wish to see the Horned King as a greetable character in the parks one day. If The Sanderson Sisters, Mad Madam Mim, Yokai, and Judge Doom can make it as a Halloween Guest Villain in the Oogie Boogie Bash perhaps the Horned King can too.
I can see why this might not have been popular as "Disney film," but, strangely, it fits in with *every other* dark/high fantasy for kids the 80's were so big on---Labyrinth, The Return to OZ, The Never-ending Story, Goonies, Legend, etc.
@isthatjackson I'm an '87 baby, so all of those films were basically what raised me. I spent years being obsessed with the unknown Black Cauldron until it came out on vhs. I wish that they had released it earlier so it could have been part of my development.
Plus, Black Cauldron also fits in with the dark animated features of the era; Transformers, Rock n’ Rule, NIMH, Heavy Metal, AKIRA, Fist of the North Star, Barefoot Gen, etc.
Im surprised you havent mentioned The Horned kings eyes. Whenever he's in a 'docile' mood, his eyes are black, almost sleepy, as he coveys his thoughts and wants on screen. However, whenever he's deeply engraged, or impationly demanding, his eyes burn a firey red that could literally light up the room! That tells me right there that he may seem like a tired, yet terrible king, his rage conveys how terrible of a plight he must come accross throught all the lands!
"A lot of praise should be given to Will Vinton-" I agree, his mustache is fantastic. "- the claymation animator who oversaw the Nome King sequences." Oh right, that too for sure.
It was a REALLY weird choice for them to make this movie at that point in time. I get the feeling they were trying for something similar to Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings, but Disney-ish, but didn't study the film's pitfalls. Plus, they nerfed the heck out of a movie about animals, pandering to parental groups and making the film more "kid friendly." So yeah... the next logical step is a darker adventure movie that should have a TON of death and destruction in the villains' wake. This thing doesn't need a live action remake so much as a live action complete re-adaption. A multi-film saga. I don't see that happening.
Creeper's delight at The Horned King's death reminds me of Pain and Panic's reaction to Hades' defeat at the end of Hercules (1997). I'm wondering if it might have inspired that, as well as their mistreatment at the hands of the God of the Underworld.
Both the Nome King and the Horned King are terrifying, traumatic villains with the former being psychological while the latter is traditionally scary- with memorably graphic deaths that have them rot to death on-screen.
8:03- when almost every other Disney villain is bombastic and energetic, the Horned King’s more subdued and sinister persona really sticks out, which helped his memorability.
Heres to the Horned King...the most terrifying of all Disney Villains and easily one of the best things of the entire movie! It would be wonderful if he got the Disney Live Action treatment...as that movie derserves a second chance!
On a more serious note, the horned king’s menacing and actually threatening demeanor no matter how flawed, was the necessary step in the right direction after a series of incompetent villains to get the iconic era of larger than life yet threatening villains of the Golden Age. Hopefully, Disney gets another villain like this to get them back on the right track.
The concept art and deleted scenes for "Black Cauldron" never cease to amaze me, especially the Tim Burton designs and the cels of that dying soldier. And even though it's been a while since I've last seen the movie, I love how they made the Horned King so terrifying. Can't wait to see you discuss Disney's earliest TV show villains. Quite an interesting tonal shift from dark and fearsome to goofy and whimsical.
oh here's a fun fact from an australian: over here we had 'satruay disney', a programming block/variety show that aired disney cartoon series back to back. Saturday Disney had its own little dedicated intro that showed clips from various disney shows and movies. The last clip that heralded the title of Saturday Disney appearing onscreen is in fact from the black cauldron (and in fact was my first introduction to the horned king EVER to the point I thought it was suppsoed to the wizard from Fantasia before I saw The BlackCauldron): namely, its the seen of light exploding from the blac cauldron as the horned king stands over it to summon his Deathless Army.
I stand by the fact, what hurt the Black Cauldron was ultimately, the "Disney" imagine. I don't know if it was WW2 or Disney himself, but when you look at the arc of Disney from Snow White to Black Cauldron, it's almost like Disney itself became afraid of going outside the brand of safe family entertainment and so darker broodier stories like Peter Pan or The Jungle Book get toned down. And that's why someone like Don Bluth was able to dominate the 1980s because he went, no, we have to show the dark to make us appreciate the light more.
You can see Disney trying to seriously tone stuff down as early as Dumbo (1941). Pinocchio and Fantasia had some truly frightening moments, but neither were financially successful. Dumbo was a CONSCIOUS effort by Disney to provide something "safe", ie. profitable. The film immediately following Dumbo, Bambi, also didn't do well. Part of this can be blamed on the movie being too sad and somber for the WW2 era (1942). And once Disney pulled itself outta the rut of the 40s, they immediately went back to the tried-and-true princess fairytale (Cinderella, 1950). Walt would repeatedly turn down darker projects such as the earlier drafts of Alice, Jungle Book, Rescuers, etc. Pinocchio and Fantasia's failures practically traumatized him, and you can see a concentrated effort to sanitize the company for the rest of his career. A sanitization that has carried on LONG after his passing.
@@sirhenrymorgan1187 The early draft of Alice in Wonderland was quite dark too. Eisner did make efforts to try and de-sanitize things, such as with HOND. But none of these efforts ended up sticking in the end.
How ironic. The Black Cauldron and Return to Oz were the darkest and scariest Disney movies of 1985, and they were such critical and financial flops that the company disowned them completely. It doesn't help that the former was publicly humiliated by The Care Bears Movie. On the bright side, they did at least earn a cult following years later and are enjoyable to watch during the Halloween season. In fact, the title of the Black Sheep of the Walt Disney Company now belongs to either Home on the Range or Chicken Little.
Not only that but I remember hearing that at one point, The Black Cauldron was kinda lost media because of how much Disney really didn’t want to acknowledge this film’s existence and tried to hide it from the world because of how the movie turned out both financially and critically. I believed it was up until the mid-late 90s, where there was no vhs release, no Disney promotional material that would feature those characters, and just the mention of the movie itself, Disney would be very silent about it, and the only way you would know if the movie existed is through people who actually remember watching or hearing about the movie back in 1985.
Not entirely. Disney acknowledged The Black Cauldron in the 50th WDAS montage, and this year on Wondrous Journeys, and might appear in Once Upon a Studio.
Again the Horned King would be good for a reboot series which can be turned into a tv series instead of a movie that way you can get every crucial story beat they can adapt. Also the Nome and Horned King are a good pairing since they came out when everyone was trying to do that dark fantasy thing which I think should be brought back.
The new logo is adorable and great, but now I'm just imagining a duck statue with the most calming voice telling me about scary Disney villains for fifty minutes. It's an oddly nostalgic mental image, even though I had no idea the channel existed until a year or so ago.
Akward fact: In the spanish dub the Horned King's name was changed, since the spanish word for "Horned" ("Cornudo" or "Cornuda") is also a derogatory word for a person who has been cheated on by their spouse. So, he was given the more vanilla name of "King of Evil".
@@jacedayne1535Re Cornelius in fact sounds awesome. And I think an ancient evil having a Latin name isn't so bad. After all, it's the go-to language for spells and ancient evils all over the history of cinema.
If modern Disney had any sense left they'd do live action Black Cauldron and Sword in the Stone films. That's not to say they would replace or be better than the animated versions but they could EASILY squeeze trilogies out of both franchises and the public not being as attached to the properties would mean that they could have more creative freedom to draw from the source material and make something really special and different. They won't and I'll be surprised if they do but just imagine...
Yeah not to mention since it’s intended to be a dark fantasy, it would actually benefit from the more dark and dull color palette of the live action remakes rather than have it be a detriment to it like every other single films Disney has decided to remake!
imagine thinking disney has any creative ideas. you know trying to put new shit into remakes is a quarter of the reason those movies suck ass right? pro-disney clown.
Burny Mattinson is sprinkled throughout all of Disney history up to today. One character that was named after him that I know off the top of my head was "Legend," the dog from Strange World. He apparently suggested the name and Don Hall, the director who was mentored by Burny, named him Legend. The breed is also a Bernedoodle which is another reference to Burny. Apparently, he is starring in that new short "Once Upon A Studio" that premiered at Annecy this year with all the Disney characters.
Fun fact: the original author of Prydain, Lloyd Alexander, enjoyed The Black Cauldron in a "so bad it's good" kinda way. Nice to know he was a good sport about Disney butchering his work! 1:35 Also: it should be noted that Prydain isn't just based Wales, but all of Britain. Prydain isn't a made-up name, it's literally the Welsh transliteration of the word "Britain". Bri-tain = Pry-dain So the setting is actually just straight-up IRL Britain, but with explicitly Welsh protagonists.
From what I’ve heard, he enjoyed the film as its own thing, but he admits that its pretty much nothing like his books and would recommend people to read them.
@@sirhenrymorgan1187 Now so many others are doing worse than Walt did. Walt would have probably been at least whimsical about it while these modern ones would make it into a bad political critique.
After reading the Lloyd Alexander books in university, I have come to the conclusion that John Hurt's Horned King plays out more like a combination of the warlord Horned King (his original version, completely ruthless and silent in his execution, much like the Cauldron Born) and Achren, Eilonwy's wicked sorceress of an aunt who wanted her to become a witch (She takes over the Spiral Castle, as you mentioned.) I didn't notice the similarities between our three "closest to pure evil, complete with demonic horns" villains until you mentioned the parallels to Maleficent and Chernabog; I can definitely see the simlarities now, and not just because the Horned King on horseback recycles some of the animation from the Night on Bald Mountain sequence. The Witches of Morva... even before I read the books, they seemed more like figures who were neither good nor evil but did delight in mocking our cast for not "reading between the lines of reality". There is a hint that they are three consciousnesses trading bodies in The Book of Three; one witch mentioned that she wanted to be the pretty one, who seems to be the mouthpiece for them. More analogous to the Fates from Greek mythology, or perhaps banshees from Ireland if you believe you can encounter them washing the clothes of those doomed to die (rather than just hearing their cries foretelling death). "Emotional powder keg" is not a phrase I have heard before, but it definitely describes Professor Ratigan rather well. The Great Mouse Detective was Musker and Clements first work as directors for Disney, not The Little Mermaid as some may believe. This is one of my sister's and my favorite Disney films. I am eagerly anticipating the next video.
The Horned King in many ways encompasses everything regarding the Black Cauldron film as a whole: Ambitious and grand ideas with a uniqueness that Disney has arguably never again reached since, but very poorly executed overall. Still, the villain, much like the rest of the movie, lay in the back of your mind. You can't help but appreciate the fact that for the briefest of moments, Disney tried something a bit different, even if it didn't fully land and it resulted in their near bankruptcy. A true once in a generation level effort from them.
I'd argue that the dark aspects of The Black Cauldron aren't even that unique for Disney. They're not normal per se but not unheard of. (Remember the queen's dungeon in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs? There's a chopping block with a bloodstain on it in one scene.) To me, it just feels like a really generic 80s fantasy adventure.
This movie definitely had potential but yeah it never reached its full potential. I'll admit the Black Cauldron isn't even my favorite Disney movie but the Horned King (even if he does feel 'generic' or isn't as memorable as other villains) is my absolute favorite part of the movie. His voice and design are 👌👌👌
I've loved how much of a stark difference The Horned King is from the other cast of disney villains. No extravagant song, no cackling laughter, not even an evil grin. He cares about nothing but power. His mere presence sucks all the positive emotion out of his surroundings. He is pure and utter evil. Nothing can redeem him, nor does he care about being redeemed.
I come here bearing news; Hear ye hear ye! As of October 11th of this year, our villain and his enemies from the black cauldron have appeared in Disney's Magic Kingdoms. Also well done with getting good information on the movie and the villains of the black cauldron themselves. My sister and I can't wait to hear your retrospective on Ratigan.
Even if it wasn't a film I rewatch often, I applaud Disney for trying to adapt these books. I always wished they made an animated musical for "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe."
I’m stoked that you gave Return To Oz some love! It’s actually my favorite Oz movie, and its villains have both terrified and thrilled me since childhood. Thank you, thank you, for taking time to point out just how heavily the music ties into the mood & themes of Return To Oz, I actually think it’s one of the best film scores of all time. I cannot wait for your Ratigan video, GMD is another one of my faves!
Very true! While it changes a few things & combines some elements and characters from The Marvelous Land of Oz & Ozma of Oz, Return is overall much more faithful to the books than most Oz adaptations, which are usually fixated on trying to recreate the MGM film. I think that’s why so many adaptations feel lacking in comparison, they’re trying to replicate the magic of a movie that was really lightning in a bottle & was shaped by the context of the era in film history it was made in, as well as its own insane production history. I think the most successful adaptations since the MGM film, The Wiz and Wicked, worked because while there are definitely a lot of nods to the film, they also aren’t restrained by it & get to be their own interpretations of the world of Oz (there’s also the long history of Oz being adapted for the stage well before there were ever any movies to consider, but that’s it’s own discussion). Critics may not have appreciated it in 1985, but Return To Oz choosing to embrace the darker tone & more surreal elements of the books really did help it to stand out in the sea of Oz movies.
11:29 In this scene, when he meets Taran yet again, Horned King was able to tell that the three heroes are not actually what they say they are. The Horned King not only tells Taran that he's just a lowly pig keeper, but knows Eilonwy as a scholar maid not a princess and Fflewddur Fflam as a terrible bart. Horned King must have the power of foresight.
I’m continually impressed by how much research goes into these videos, including the ones for movies I’m not too fond of (Black Cauldron included). Also glad we’re now finally at Ratigan in the next installment cause there’s so many great things to talk about with him.
Vincent Price (RIP) nailed it as Ratigan. He played a major role in shaping the character into the delightfully despicable Professor Moriarty expy we all know and love.
I do love the 1939 Wizard of Oz, but i was *obsessed* with Return to Oz as a kid. Probably because I frequently read the original books on many a long road trip and fell in love with the turn of the century illustrations. And Return to Oz captures that look so well, more Art Noveau compared to Wizard of Oz's Art Deco.
8:30- yeah, we went from bumbling kings and butlers, greedy crooks, and morally gray hunters to a nihilistic god complex willing to cause genocide and rule over a dystopian hellscape of the undead. You don’t get much darker than that.
The Black Cauldron would make for a real cool Zelda-esque video-game, or at least a stunning Kingdom Hearts world with an epic fight against The Horned King.
The Prydain series were some of the first books I purchased after getting a kindle. It makes me wish Disney would remake it as a series, as there's so much untapped potential.
Gummi Bears is surprisingly lore heavy (I mean it was a major inspiration for Gargoyles!) , so I'm looking forward to see you cover some of that in a future video :D
Warms my heart you thought to cover the Nome King. Return to Oz is one of my all time favorite movies. The production design is gorgeous, the practical and visual effects (which were nominated for an Oscar) including the stop motion animation are incredible and David Shire's score is magical and cinematic.
I think Creeper is the one of the most abused Disney sidekick along with Molt from Bugs Life and Fungus from Monsters Inc as he never had a Dog's bite back moment like the Hyenas killing Scar , Horace and Jasper telling Crulla to shut up , Mr Snoops laughing at Medusa becomign gator chow , or Midge teling Syndrom off or even Lefou with this . Gaston " Bell would do anything to make sure her father isnt in the looney bin " Lefou " Even marry him " . They's also Creeper gettign blamed for everythign that goes wrong even when it does'nt make sense
Been binge watching these and as a big Kingdom Hearts fan, I get unreasonably giddy whenever it gets brought up lmao. Great work, learning tons of stuff
I always thought of The Horned King in the books in a similar term to the way the original Clone Wars series depicted General Grievous or how Disney handled Shere Khan in the Jungle Book. You get such a build up to him and then suddenly he appears as an almost mute, killing machine that only Prince Gwydion has the power to best. The Final Film version is good, but I feel like he could have been so much more. He just looks like a scarier version of Skeletor. I was hoping for someone far more ruthless, but I guess Disney fans had to wait until Ratigan or Ursula came about later. John Hurt did a fantastic job voicing him and I do enjoy the designs of the other villains, in particular the witches, the Gwythaints and the Deathless Warriors. I think, of all the remakes Disney is making, this film should get a proper remake, hopefully being a more loyal adaptation this time. The Prydain books are my favorite of all time and really deserve a proper retelling. They were to children's fantasy what Harry Potter later became and I adore them. Guess it's only wishful thinking though, given all the issues Disney is facing with their studio now
I mean it would be pretty hard to be more ruthless than an undead sorcerer who uses his followers as tools and raw material to make an army of deathless animate corpses.
Thoughts on the Horned King: As a kid I admired the Horned King as an awesome scary medieval villain and he was an inspiration for Nevar the main villain of Scottish fantasy game show Raven which I grew up with. That's why the Black Cauldron is one of my guilty pleasures and it deserves a live action tv series in the veins of Raven and LOTR.
I feel like the Horned King would be a perfect villain for Kingdom Hearts, he could even be used as an explanation for why Heartless exist (since they share some small similarities to the Deathless Army, being an unending horde of monsters created by the 'deaths' of others). (that or one of the final fantasy villains, whicha re sorely mising from thee KH franchise aside from sephiroth)
God, you don’t know how much I love and appreciate this series, you’re hard work and love for Disney really shows, as a huge Disney fan myself, I find all of your Disney villains retrospective videos deeply fascinating, and thank you for keeping up with them althought it might take you some time to make, you can’t imagine how excited I get everytime you announce a new villain retrospective, as always, thank you for your hard work and all the craft that comes with this videos, I truly adore them, keep it up! ❤️❤️❤️
I can assume Langwidere's consciousness is just always there. Edit: I also personal find Creeper comparable to Inuyasha's Jaken since they're both little green creatures of unknown species and both are simperingly devoted to the masters who physically abuse them. The only difference is while Jaken sucks up to Sesshomaru mainly out of genuine loyalty and respect, Creeper's a suck up due to fear.
I agree with the point about the Horned King not being very proactive it would have been nice if they had showed us more of what his powers could do or have him personally lead the army of the dead into battle there was a lot of missed potential when it came to the Horned King
I think the Witches of Morva had a lot of cauldrons for covering on where the true main cauldron was hidden beneath the ground and of them and also that's where they use to cook the humans turned into frogs, using not the same cauldron any other day, so they hold a record of a lot of them since they were keeping it for a hundred thousand years.
YES!!! This was the video for me; my 2 personal favorite Disney films featured together!! BTW; there's also an "official" 'Return to Oz' fan-site that has plenty of interesting info well worth looking into. And I just gotta say; now matter what their flaws, the Disney films of the so-called 'Dark Age' are some of my all-time favs, and IMHO, HIGHLY underrated. Thanks for the video! =)
What I knew about the main-villain was that it was meant to be Arawn all the time and he looked a lot like the Horned King, and the Black Cauldron didn't have a link about a dark spirit within him, but then somehow the role got splitted in two as the main villain was just the Horned King all along while Arawn became the ancient evil warrior-king which his spirit lived within the Black Cauldron and got also unnamed.
Once again, as with including Tron last time around, you picked up on one of my favourite childhood films paired with a classic Disney villain! And wow, if asked to pick which film scared the pants off me as a small child, it would definitely be return to oz! Melty face corpse skeletons? no problem, but psycho momby, the horribly nice gnome king and a desert that turns everything to sand! Yeeech! I distinctly remember as a six year old, avoiding stepping on any yellow or cream coloured patches in the carpet for fear that it was a bit of that desert!
@@srstriker6420I’d imagine all Ducktales related villains will be put together in one video. He did say it would be a large enough video when Sheldgoose was moved to the first Catch Up video as he explained.
I believe after Great Mouse Detective is Oliver and Company, and after that will be the Little Mermaid, though I imagine he will be talking about Who frame Roger rabbit and Judge doom first before little mermaid.
@@KaizokuGaeruI agree. While Disney's fumbled a bit with villains in their recent films, their TV animated villains are excellent. Dr. Doofenshmirtz, Bill Cipher, Lord Dominator, Toffee, King Andrias, Emperor Belos, etc. Lots of great animated evil fun to be had on the small screen!
I’m just gonna say this, I think we will see the Horned King at a Disney Park in the near future specifically at Oogie Boogie Bash. We have seen that they can do interactive skeletons with Ernesto and the Horned King can also fit into that style. Plus, he actually fits in to the event really well as the event is a bit more mature compared Not So Scary at Magic Kingdom. So if there willing to bring Judge Doom who is considered a really scary villain and has killed a character in front of viewers, why not bring the King to the event.
In preparation for this video, I went back and re-watched The Black Cauldron on Disney+. Before that, I had only seen this movie once as a kid. I barely remember anything about it, mostly what happens at the beginning and end of the movie (I completely forgot about the Fair Folk or what happened to Hen Wen), and upon rewatching it... well, it's hard for me to know if I really liked it or not. It definitely does not feel like a Disney movie, right from the opening describing the origins of The Black Cauldron; seeing that bit of blood in Taran's mouth while he tries to get Hen Wen back, it caught me off-guard. The movie reminded me of Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings in a way, with how "high fantasy" the story feels, and much like that movie, I can't help but wonder if being more familiar with the original books would make me appreciate what's on-screen more, or if it would just frustrate me... As for The Horned King, I suppose it's no surprise that he's got a bit of a cult following among Disney Villains; like the movie as a whole has a bit of a cult following, but the Horned King really stands out as a very creepy and sinister presence. Even if he doesn't do all that much, the scenes he does get are unnerving and really dig into you. Props the the late John Hurt for that voice, he really did a good job with the role, even if the Horned King, like the movie as a whole, is rather flawed in its execution. After watching the movie, I thought to myself if the Horned King motivations were a bit simplistic, but upon thinking all this, it reminded me of how many Disney villains have limited and/or shallow motivation and it didn't stop them from being memorable or considered one of the greats. In the case of the Horned King, I don't think he's one of the best Disney villains, but he's definitely memorable enough to get an honorable mention at the very least... especially given his death scene. Geez, surprised that made it into the final cut of the movie. Now Creeper, he's a lot like Sir Hiss in that he's a minion who gets a lot of abuse from the main villain, though The Black Cauldron goes beyond that to show he's mistreated by the rest of the Horned King's henchmen. He gets no respect at all... not that he necessarily deserves it; the few times things go his way or he's in some position of authority he barks orders and throws what little weight he has around. Still, it's difficult not to sympathize with him somewhat, and it does make me happy to see him gloat over his boss's demise. The witches were also surprisingly memorable to me, as one of the few things I remembered as a kid. Particularly how that one big witch Orwen had the hots for Fflewddur while the other witches tried to turn him into a toad and eat him. There's something I find oddly appealing about stereotypical witches like this (and Madam Mim for that matter), they're definitely a lot of fun to watch, though the movie left me curious as to why they have the Black Cauldron... Guess it's better explained in the books. I actually like that your doing the Nome King from Return to Oz, he's a villain I didn't even fully consider for this retrospective. I suppose he is partially stop-motion, so he technically counts as being animated. I've actually read a few of the Oz books, and the interesting thing about them is that, despite the Wicked Witch of the West being more iconic, she dies in the first book like she does in the famous movie, while it's the Nome King who is more of a recurring antagonist in the books. His first appearance in the third book mirrors that of how he appears in the movie, though he's smaller and more round compared to his movie counterpart and doesn't get involved with Mombi (who shows up in the second book, Return to Oz combines the two), and also he doesn't die in the end. What I find fascinating is his claim that the Emeralds in the Emerald City belonged to the Nomes and they were simply taking back what was rightfully there's, while turning everyone else to stone and kidnapping the Scarecrow while they're at it. Whether the emeralds truly were stolen or the Nomes merely claimed ownership of them because they were underground originally is something I forget the exact specifics off, but I'd like to think it's the latter, especially when the Nome King reveals he's not nearly as honorable as he presents himself. He gives Dorothy and the heroes a fighting chance, but once Dorothy figures out inanimate objects everyone was turned into, the Nome King goes back on his word and tries to kill everyone. Like The Black Cauldron, I saw this movie once when I was a kid, and holy Hell did the scene of the Nome King eating the Gump's couch body really freak me out, as did him almost eating Jack Pumpkinhead. Definitely a memorable villain, kind of a shame Return to Oz isn't as well know as the original classic. In closing, I want to say I'm REALLY looking forward to you finally getting into the villains from Disney's animated TV shows, there's a lot of them, and some are more memorable than others. Combining the Wuzzles and the Gummi Bears is probably a good idea for the next one... Though I don't even know what the Fluppy Dogs even is, or that it even existed, holy smokes...
My wife and I just got into that new Disney card game Lorcana and we’ve been talking about possible cards they could add in the future and after this video I am READY for a Black Cauldron set. Lemme summon The Horned King!
This retrospective chapter was truly amazing. I love both of these movies so much. Creeper is certainly one of my favorite characters. I can see why so many commentators are excited about the Horned king and I like him a lot too but I’m putting my flag behind Creeper as my favorite villain from this movie! Creeper is just so much fun. I miss Disney creations like him! From the very first time I watched Black Cauldron as a kid, I instantly loved Creeper and he will always be highly appreciated on my favorite henchmen list! I also love the witches, they’re highly underrated and truly hilarious! The witches and Creeper definitely deserve more support and I’m definitely happy to put my flag behind them. Thank you for covering Return to OZ! It’s amazing! I have to track down a copy of this movie on DVD someday! I loved it so much growing up. Looking forward to your next chapter in this series!
This was one of my favorite Disney movies as a kid, particularly because it reminds me so much of Star Wars and John Hurt It’s like Darth Vader in the Emperor rolled into one.
in my recent rewatch of descendants 3, i noticed that you can see the black cauldron in the museum!! during audrey’s song, when she takes the scepter, what looks like the black cauldron is in the background. i never noticed that until now 😭
I love the black Cauldron, I wish it did go alittle more spooky. But, Return To Oz....that movie, I watch it every halloween. I remember as a kid being terrified during Mombie's headless scene... her running down the hall of screaming heads, chasing Dorothy. But it was more weird and cool, so I could handle it. I love the books and I've watched many different tv adaptations of them. My absolute favorite one is a mini series called "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" from 1986 to 1987. I can't get enough of it, I still watch it (I found several dvds)
I love how Black Cauldron and QUest for Camelot had similar development problems that lasted for years and both came out not bad necessarily but flopped on release and now have cult followings. I think between the two films there's a great movie in there somewhere
BC was an attempt to cash in on the dark Fantasy films of the early 80s while QfC was an attempt to cash in on the popularity of Renaissance Disney musicals -- Chronicles of Prydain and The King's Damosel are both great books though
Also, this is the first time John Hurt voiced a villain as his previous voice role was actually the protagonist Hazel from Watership Down, which got its animated series in which he voiced General Woundwort.
I always forget that return to Oz is a Disney movie. It was one of my favorites growing up because it scared me so much, but I could never get it at blockbuster cause someone rented it and never gave it back
At Spanish speaking people there happened a lot of changes on the character's names so they could be kinda more understandable for the audience as the original Welsh-type are kinda odd, and even the Horned King got a rather fitting cool darker name as "The King of Evil" (El Rey del Mal), simplier yet kinda more compelling gruesome than the English version. Aside of that other characters got huge changes as King Eidelwig became King Henry (Rey Enrique), Princess Eillonwy became Princess Ellen (Princesa Elena) and Flwedden Flame became Faust Flame (Fausto Flama), as the Welsh names were so hard to grasp on Spanish speakers.
I think an R rated animated adventure movie would be an easy sell at the time even on a different label. Animation was seen almost exclusively as a children's medium at the time in the states. Released without the fanfare of being part of the Disney Studio lineage and with the Scarlet R on it, It might've become a huge cult classic, but would've been Box Office Suicide. And at the time, Cult Classic was a terrible strategy before home media boom of the 90s.
@@rvawildcardwolf2843 Quite sad that people still view animation as childish when there are plenty of adult animated shows and movies that proved the argument wrong time and again.
I think the books are waaaay better but i will admit the movie version The Horned King is an huge improvment of his book counterpart. I still love this movie i have lots of nostaligia for it.
Oh my gosh, I remeber that Choose Your Own Adventure comic (or, *a* choose your own adventure comic about Taran, don't know if the German version was the same one). Little me was sooooooo confused by the concept 😂
I believe the original printing was in French, which was the one I was able to locate. There's a second one out there, but it's shorter and doesn't feature any of the main villains.
@@ColinLooksBack The only things I remember were: - It was about The Dark Cauldron, and - it had a weird structure I later came to know and love as Choose Your Own Adventure structure. Nice to know there were two of them! 🙂
Here is how I make The Black Cauldron better. Make Taran doubt whether he is truly worthy of the title "warrior". You can have him fantasise about being a great warrior, but also make him realistically acknowledge that he knows his place as an assistant pig-keeper and it was going to be that way. Enter the Gwythaints whom captured Hen Wen and it is up to Taran to save the pig because that was his responsibilty as an assistant pig-keeper. Taran then meets Gurgi, through trial and error, whom guides him where were the Gwythaints were flying to and then told him that these creatures were the servants of the fearsome Horned King. Taran thanked Gurgi and then rushed towards the castle gates. Whilst there, he meets Princess Eilonwy and Fflewddur Fflam, whom were prisoners of the Horned King. Eilonwy asked Taran if he was there to rescue her and Fflam, but Taran said that he was looking for Hen Wen, his pig, that had been captured since it is his responsiblity as an assistant pig-keeper. Both Eilonwy and Fflam know where the pig but in exchange, Taran needs to unlock them from their prison and Fflam knows where the keys is. Taran, through steadiness and caution, got the keys and unlocked them from their prison and both Eilonwy and Fflam went into the direction that they saw Hen Wen with Taran following them. After reuniting with Hen Wen and getting a brief confrontation from the Horned King, Taran and company escaped the army and went into the forest for hiding and taking a breather. Both Eilonwy and Fflam, with the former especially, congratulated Taran for setting them free and saving Hen Wen and called him a "warrior". Taran thanked her gratification but then said that he isn't a 𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘳𝘪𝘰𝘳 warrior but more as just a regular assistant pig-keeper and that he knows his place. Eilonwy then wisely states that it doesn't matter what sort of person are you to become a warrior, it is what who you are to become a warrior and she occasionally says that whenever Taran doubts himself. Through many trials and tribulations such as meeting with Gurgi again, finding the sword, meeting the witches, discovering the Black Cauldron and defeating the Horned King once and for all, Taran finally becomes worthy of a "warrior". Also, is it me or does Raya and the Last Dragon felt like The Black Cauldron all over again although slightly better? Another thing. Belos from The Owl House is a much better Horned King than the Horned King himself.
I'm one of the few people who've read the Chronicles of Prydain. They're pretty good. I feel like there was a bit too many plot points that almost directly happen in The Lord of the Rings. That includes most of the main characters going to the undying lands at the end of the series. It's pretty bizarre and probably moreso because they had very similar inspirations.
I am so fascinated by the Point and Click game shown here. It's so clearly one of the reference points for Peasant's Quest from Homestar Runner, and I love it.
According ti yesterworld some people at Disney are interested in releasing an extended cut of the film. One even talked to Roy back when he was around about it. We can only hope it happens someday.
Nice coverage. One thing to mention is that Alwine mentioned in an interview that he voiced the henchman that flirted with the Sexy Dancer just before the Horned King made his entrance.
RIP John Hurt (the voice of the Horned King) Edit 2: I've seen how fans of the original books call "Return to Oz" faithful to the original source material. Edit: I heard somewhere that Walt wanted to adapt the Wizard of Oz back in the 1930s before finding out that MGM already had the rights to the story.
When you do end up looking at Ratigan, I wanted you to know he made a small cameo in an episode of Quack Pack, in episode 5, "Pride Goeth Before the Fall Guy", where he appears as a collectable card,part of a series of cards based on infamous criminals.
Groovy Foes!! Neat Detail combo of Creepy Nostalgia!! I hope Some day or somewhere whe get a properly return or consideration for such trilling, grim Villans but mostly to those Epic style plot stoyies with innocent but also growing Characters!!! Neat Review for such Wicked Dúo of Nightmares!! Behind all the flaws they Trully became frigthing classics and inspiratives módels too! Thank you so much!! Means a Lot and i cant wait the adventures of the Gummie Bears review soon!! Yay!!
If I had to guess I’d say Horned King is popular in Japan because he’s a lot like the demon king archetype you see in a lot of anime, manga, and video games.
Fun fact: In Japanese he was voiced by the late Shōzō Iizuka, who among many others he voiced the Demon King in "Grimm's Fairy Tale Classics" and of course in "The Seven Deadly Sins".
@@NameGKal He was also Nappa in Dragon Ball Z.
The fact that the Horned King was the villain in a few Mickey games is kind of fitting in a meta sense, seeing as The Black Cauldron was seen as Disney's lowest point. Mickey might as well have defeated the Horned King using video cassettes of Disney Renaissance films.
Imagine if newer games had Jaeger Clade or Buck Cluck as bosses. Those movies were low points too.
EDIT: King Magnifico is even more fitting.
Edit: Imagine Mickey defeating Buck Cluck with MCU DVDs.
@@austinreed7343 I wouldn't be opposed to beating up Buck Cluck.
Sandersons sisters from Hocus-pocus would be great in Kingdom Hearts
While the film overall certainly had problems which lead to it's failure, you can't deny that The Horned King was the absolute highlight, and arguably the only reason anyone still remembers this film existed. Disney has made some spectacular villains since, but very few have reached his level of creepy design. And John Hurt delivered an absolutely chilling vocal performance.
Very much agreed
One of Disney's most underrated villain.
He lost to a light shove though…
Even the Mexican Spanish dub gave him an awesome voice
@@waterbullstudios9195 yes because he deserves better
If you're wondering where the surprisingly dark Lich from Adventure Time gets his design from, now you know
That inspiration is pretty obvious. Something less apparent might be the horned shadowy samurai horseman from the season 5 of Samurai Jack. Going by the description from the video, that one might have actually been inspired by the Horned King from the original books.
“FALL.”
There's not a single villain I want to appear in Kingdom Hearts more than the Horned King
He seems like he would be so fun to fight
I definitely love to see something like that, he’s definitely dark, mysterious, and unholy enough to control Heartless, so I imagine him being able to control some very powerful heartless bosses
I smell ADDs
The developers of the games hear you and say "What's that? You want a Hercules world again? On it, chief!"
@@DuskoolNomura has stated Hades is his favorite Disney villian hence why Olympus is such a regular occurrence.
Though I do wonder if Disney will try to quash that habit now that they seem to have burned all bridges with James Woods
@@skibot9974don’t know about that since Woods has still voice hades in a kart racing game, that came out barely 2 months
I do wish to see the Horned King as a greetable character in the parks one day. If The Sanderson Sisters, Mad Madam Mim, Yokai, and Judge Doom can make it as a Halloween Guest Villain in the Oogie Boogie Bash perhaps the Horned King can too.
Wait, "Yokai"? When were YOKAI of all things in a Disney film?!?
@@shirleymaemattthews4862 Yokai is the villain of Big Hero 6. He's not an actual yokai, but his design is influenced by them.
I can see why this might not have been popular as "Disney film," but, strangely, it fits in with *every other* dark/high fantasy for kids the 80's were so big on---Labyrinth, The Return to OZ, The Never-ending Story, Goonies, Legend, etc.
Right?! It’s quintessential 80s dark fantasy
@isthatjackson I'm an '87 baby, so all of those films were basically what raised me. I spent years being obsessed with the unknown Black Cauldron until it came out on vhs. I wish that they had released it earlier so it could have been part of my development.
Goonies?
Plus, Black Cauldron also fits in with the dark animated features of the era; Transformers, Rock n’ Rule, NIMH, Heavy Metal, AKIRA, Fist of the North Star, Barefoot Gen, etc.
Im surprised you havent mentioned The Horned kings eyes. Whenever he's in a 'docile' mood, his eyes are black, almost sleepy, as he coveys his thoughts and wants on screen. However, whenever he's deeply engraged, or impationly demanding, his eyes burn a firey red that could literally light up the room! That tells me right there that he may seem like a tired, yet terrible king, his rage conveys how terrible of a plight he must come accross throught all the lands!
Talk about an underrated performance! John Hurt gave his all to a very underappreciated character
"A lot of praise should be given to Will Vinton-"
I agree, his mustache is fantastic.
"- the claymation animator who oversaw the Nome King sequences."
Oh right, that too for sure.
I'm going to be honest this film's deserves a live-action. Because Disney treated this film so dirty and it deserves a second chance
If there is a movie that deserves a live action remake, it’s this one.
Exactly like I have 3 picks for the Horned king for the remake if any, 1,Willem Defoe 2,Andy Serkis and 3,Christian Bale
It was a REALLY weird choice for them to make this movie at that point in time. I get the feeling they were trying for something similar to Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings, but Disney-ish, but didn't study the film's pitfalls. Plus, they nerfed the heck out of a movie about animals, pandering to parental groups and making the film more "kid friendly." So yeah... the next logical step is a darker adventure movie that should have a TON of death and destruction in the villains' wake. This thing doesn't need a live action remake so much as a live action complete re-adaption. A multi-film saga. I don't see that happening.
Imagine if Black Cauldron was Disney's answer to the D&D movie?
@@srstriker6420I could see Beneficial Cummerbund. He has that energy
Creeper's delight at The Horned King's death reminds me of Pain and Panic's reaction to Hades' defeat at the end of Hercules (1997). I'm wondering if it might have inspired that, as well as their mistreatment at the hands of the God of the Underworld.
Both the Nome King and the Horned King are terrifying, traumatic villains with the former being psychological while the latter is traditionally scary- with memorably graphic deaths that have them rot to death on-screen.
8:03- when almost every other Disney villain is bombastic and energetic, the Horned King’s more subdued and sinister persona really sticks out, which helped his memorability.
Heres to the Horned King...the most terrifying of all Disney Villains and easily one of the best things of the entire movie! It would be wonderful if he got the Disney Live Action treatment...as that movie derserves a second chance!
On a more serious note, the horned king’s menacing and actually threatening demeanor no matter how flawed, was the necessary step in the right direction after a series of incompetent villains to get the iconic era of larger than life yet threatening villains of the Golden Age. Hopefully, Disney gets another villain like this to get them back on the right track.
The concept art and deleted scenes for "Black Cauldron" never cease to amaze me, especially the Tim Burton designs and the cels of that dying soldier. And even though it's been a while since I've last seen the movie, I love how they made the Horned King so terrifying.
Can't wait to see you discuss Disney's earliest TV show villains. Quite an interesting tonal shift from dark and fearsome to goofy and whimsical.
oh here's a fun fact from an australian: over here we had 'satruay disney', a programming block/variety show that aired disney cartoon series back to back. Saturday Disney had its own little dedicated intro that showed clips from various disney shows and movies. The last clip that heralded the title of Saturday Disney appearing onscreen is in fact from the black cauldron (and in fact was my first introduction to the horned king EVER to the point I thought it was suppsoed to the wizard from Fantasia before I saw The BlackCauldron): namely, its the seen of light exploding from the blac cauldron as the horned king stands over it to summon his Deathless Army.
I stand by the fact, what hurt the Black Cauldron was ultimately, the "Disney" imagine. I don't know if it was WW2 or Disney himself, but when you look at the arc of Disney from Snow White to Black Cauldron, it's almost like Disney itself became afraid of going outside the brand of safe family entertainment and so darker broodier stories like Peter Pan or The Jungle Book get toned down. And that's why someone like Don Bluth was able to dominate the 1980s because he went, no, we have to show the dark to make us appreciate the light more.
You can see Disney trying to seriously tone stuff down as early as Dumbo (1941). Pinocchio and Fantasia had some truly frightening moments, but neither were financially successful. Dumbo was a CONSCIOUS effort by Disney to provide something "safe", ie. profitable.
The film immediately following Dumbo, Bambi, also didn't do well. Part of this can be blamed on the movie being too sad and somber for the WW2 era (1942). And once Disney pulled itself outta the rut of the 40s, they immediately went back to the tried-and-true princess fairytale (Cinderella, 1950).
Walt would repeatedly turn down darker projects such as the earlier drafts of Alice, Jungle Book, Rescuers, etc. Pinocchio and Fantasia's failures practically traumatized him, and you can see a concentrated effort to sanitize the company for the rest of his career. A sanitization that has carried on LONG after his passing.
@@sirhenrymorgan1187
The early draft of Alice in Wonderland was quite dark too.
Eisner did make efforts to try and de-sanitize things, such as with HOND. But none of these efforts ended up sticking in the end.
You know this also could apply how bland these recent movies have been.
@@92JazzQueen
The Neo-Iger era isn’t quite a whole new level; Home on the Range is pretty close to how Strange World-onward are.
How ironic. The Black Cauldron and Return to Oz were the darkest and scariest Disney movies of 1985, and they were such critical and financial flops that the company disowned them completely. It doesn't help that the former was publicly humiliated by The Care Bears Movie. On the bright side, they did at least earn a cult following years later and are enjoyable to watch during the Halloween season. In fact, the title of the Black Sheep of the Walt Disney Company now belongs to either Home on the Range or Chicken Little.
Not only that but I remember hearing that at one point, The Black Cauldron was kinda lost media because of how much Disney really didn’t want to acknowledge this film’s existence and tried to hide it from the world because of how the movie turned out both financially and critically. I believed it was up until the mid-late 90s, where there was no vhs release, no Disney promotional material that would feature those characters, and just the mention of the movie itself, Disney would be very silent about it, and the only way you would know if the movie existed is through people who actually remember watching or hearing about the movie back in 1985.
Home on The Range was good tho.
@@SnakeRoadComicsOfficial3677 th-cam.com/video/lhckuhUxcgA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=sRM8jlOVrUAt_uUn
Not entirely. Disney acknowledged The Black Cauldron in the 50th WDAS montage, and this year on Wondrous Journeys, and might appear in Once Upon a Studio.
@@TwilightLink77 The characters from The Black Cauldron did made appearance in Once Upon a Studio.
Again the Horned King would be good for a reboot series which can be turned into a tv series instead of a movie that way you can get every crucial story beat they can adapt. Also the Nome and Horned King are a good pairing since they came out when everyone was trying to do that dark fantasy thing which I think should be brought back.
bring back the darkness in family films! make kids shit thir pants again!
The new logo is adorable and great, but now I'm just imagining a duck statue with the most calming voice telling me about scary Disney villains for fifty minutes. It's an oddly nostalgic mental image, even though I had no idea the channel existed until a year or so ago.
Akward fact: In the spanish dub the Horned King's name was changed, since the spanish word for "Horned" ("Cornudo" or "Cornuda") is also a derogatory word for a person who has been cheated on by their spouse.
So, he was given the more vanilla name of "King of Evil".
Same thing in Italian. They changed to Re Cornelius. Sounds ancient, but a little too Latin for the Welsh landscape
@@jacedayne1535Re Cornelius in fact sounds awesome.
And I think an ancient evil having a Latin name isn't so bad. After all, it's the go-to language for spells and ancient evils all over the history of cinema.
In Finnish dub the Horned King is named Hornansarvi meaning The Horn of Hell.
@@Recessbiru The Horn of Hell? That sounds amazing!
@@Recessbirusounds metal
If modern Disney had any sense left they'd do live action Black Cauldron and Sword in the Stone films. That's not to say they would replace or be better than the animated versions but they could EASILY squeeze trilogies out of both franchises and the public not being as attached to the properties would mean that they could have more creative freedom to draw from the source material and make something really special and different. They won't and I'll be surprised if they do but just imagine...
Yeah not to mention since it’s intended to be a dark fantasy, it would actually benefit from the more dark and dull color palette of the live action remakes rather than have it be a detriment to it like every other single films Disney has decided to remake!
Rather Disney stay away from old animated films and stop making them into Live actions all together.
That would be awesome.
imagine thinking disney has any creative ideas.
you know trying to put new shit into remakes is a quarter of the reason those movies suck ass right? pro-disney clown.
I did hear they were planning on doing so with the original books title.
41:30 I love how dedicated Pete and his minions are to that evil cosplay project. Those costumes and sets must have been a ton of work to get right!
Burny Mattinson is sprinkled throughout all of Disney history up to today. One character that was named after him that I know off the top of my head was "Legend," the dog from Strange World. He apparently suggested the name and Don Hall, the director who was mentored by Burny, named him Legend. The breed is also a Bernedoodle which is another reference to Burny.
Apparently, he is starring in that new short "Once Upon A Studio" that premiered at Annecy this year with all the Disney characters.
I can simply hardly wait for both the short and Wish.
@@danielsvetlichny5721have any prveiws gone well.
Fun fact: the original author of Prydain, Lloyd Alexander, enjoyed The Black Cauldron in a "so bad it's good" kinda way. Nice to know he was a good sport about Disney butchering his work!
1:35 Also: it should be noted that Prydain isn't just based Wales, but all of Britain. Prydain isn't a made-up name, it's literally the Welsh transliteration of the word "Britain".
Bri-tain = Pry-dain
So the setting is actually just straight-up IRL Britain, but with explicitly Welsh protagonists.
We need disney to go back to butchering more British stories
From what I’ve heard, he enjoyed the film as its own thing, but he admits that its pretty much nothing like his books and would recommend people to read them.
@@92JazzQueen There was a reason Tolkien swore he'd never let Disney adapt his work. He knew what they'd do to his beloved Middle-earth!
@@sirhenrymorgan1187 Now so many others are doing worse than Walt did. Walt would have probably been at least whimsical about it while these modern ones would make it into a bad political critique.
@@brandonlyon730 well this movie deserves a remake and a second chance
36:29 "Not one but two Gurgis" Jesus Christ how horrifying
After reading the Lloyd Alexander books in university, I have come to the conclusion that John Hurt's Horned King plays out more like a combination of the warlord Horned King (his original version, completely ruthless and silent in his execution, much like the Cauldron Born) and Achren, Eilonwy's wicked sorceress of an aunt who wanted her to become a witch (She takes over the Spiral Castle, as you mentioned.) I didn't notice the similarities between our three "closest to pure evil, complete with demonic horns" villains until you mentioned the parallels to Maleficent and Chernabog; I can definitely see the simlarities now, and not just because the Horned King on horseback recycles some of the animation from the Night on Bald Mountain sequence.
The Witches of Morva... even before I read the books, they seemed more like figures who were neither good nor evil but did delight in mocking our cast for not "reading between the lines of reality". There is a hint that they are three consciousnesses trading bodies in The Book of Three; one witch mentioned that she wanted to be the pretty one, who seems to be the mouthpiece for them. More analogous to the Fates from Greek mythology, or perhaps banshees from Ireland if you believe you can encounter them washing the clothes of those doomed to die (rather than just hearing their cries foretelling death).
"Emotional powder keg" is not a phrase I have heard before, but it definitely describes Professor Ratigan rather well. The Great Mouse Detective was Musker and Clements first work as directors for Disney, not The Little Mermaid as some may believe. This is one of my sister's and my favorite Disney films. I am eagerly anticipating the next video.
The Horned King in many ways encompasses everything regarding the Black Cauldron film as a whole: Ambitious and grand ideas with a uniqueness that Disney has arguably never again reached since, but very poorly executed overall.
Still, the villain, much like the rest of the movie, lay in the back of your mind. You can't help but appreciate the fact that for the briefest of moments, Disney tried something a bit different, even if it didn't fully land and it resulted in their near bankruptcy. A true once in a generation level effort from them.
I'd argue that the dark aspects of The Black Cauldron aren't even that unique for Disney. They're not normal per se but not unheard of. (Remember the queen's dungeon in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs? There's a chopping block with a bloodstain on it in one scene.) To me, it just feels like a really generic 80s fantasy adventure.
This movie definitely had potential but yeah it never reached its full potential. I'll admit the Black Cauldron isn't even my favorite Disney movie but the Horned King (even if he does feel 'generic' or isn't as memorable as other villains) is my absolute favorite part of the movie. His voice and design are 👌👌👌
I've loved how much of a stark difference The Horned King is from the other cast of disney villains. No extravagant song, no cackling laughter, not even an evil grin. He cares about nothing but power. His mere presence sucks all the positive emotion out of his surroundings. He is pure and utter evil. Nothing can redeem him, nor does he care about being redeemed.
I come here bearing news; Hear ye hear ye! As of October 11th of this year, our villain and his enemies from the black cauldron have appeared in Disney's Magic Kingdoms. Also well done with getting good information on the movie and the villains of the black cauldron themselves. My sister and I can't wait to hear your retrospective on Ratigan.
I think the Chronicles of Prydain would make a pretty epic Netflix series. This needs to happen. Who's with me?
Even if it wasn't a film I rewatch often, I applaud Disney for trying to adapt these books. I always wished they made an animated musical for "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe."
Two terrifying villains from two of Disney’s darkest films!
Looking forward to hearing you talk about the World’s Greatest Criminal Mind!
I wonder will he add Merlock from the Ducktales movie along with the rest of Ducktales villains as a bonus?
@@sirhenrymorgan1187 oh really because I thought that the movie doesn’t count in the mainstream
the Horned King looks like Papyrus from Undertale on the cover at 5:37
Villain themes:
Horned King 29:02 - 29:07
Creeper 29:31 - 29:39
Creeper being chocked 29:46 - 29:50
March of the Cauldron-born 29:56 - 30:05
Return to Oz villains 53:45 - 53:54
Mambi's Mandolin 53:59 - 54:03
I’m stoked that you gave Return To Oz some love! It’s actually my favorite Oz movie, and its villains have both terrified and thrilled me since childhood. Thank you, thank you, for taking time to point out just how heavily the music ties into the mood & themes of Return To Oz, I actually think it’s one of the best film scores of all time. I cannot wait for your Ratigan video, GMD is another one of my faves!
Return is more faithful to the Oz books than the mgm movie
Very true! While it changes a few things & combines some elements and characters from The Marvelous Land of Oz & Ozma of Oz, Return is overall much more faithful to the books than most Oz adaptations, which are usually fixated on trying to recreate the MGM film. I think that’s why so many adaptations feel lacking in comparison, they’re trying to replicate the magic of a movie that was really lightning in a bottle & was shaped by the context of the era in film history it was made in, as well as its own insane production history. I think the most successful adaptations since the MGM film, The Wiz and Wicked, worked because while there are definitely a lot of nods to the film, they also aren’t restrained by it & get to be their own interpretations of the world of Oz (there’s also the long history of Oz being adapted for the stage well before there were ever any movies to consider, but that’s it’s own discussion). Critics may not have appreciated it in 1985, but Return To Oz choosing to embrace the darker tone & more surreal elements of the books really did help it to stand out in the sea of Oz movies.
11:29 In this scene, when he meets Taran yet again, Horned King was able to tell that the three heroes are not actually what they say they are. The Horned King not only tells Taran that he's just a lowly pig keeper, but knows Eilonwy as a scholar maid not a princess and Fflewddur Fflam as a terrible bart. Horned King must have the power of foresight.
Okay, that ending with the Cracks audio was prettt cool, was not expecting it
I’m continually impressed by how much research goes into these videos, including the ones for movies I’m not too fond of (Black Cauldron included).
Also glad we’re now finally at Ratigan in the next installment cause there’s so many great things to talk about with him.
Vincent Price (RIP) nailed it as Ratigan. He played a major role in shaping the character into the delightfully despicable Professor Moriarty expy we all know and love.
I do love the 1939 Wizard of Oz, but i was *obsessed* with Return to Oz as a kid. Probably because I frequently read the original books on many a long road trip and fell in love with the turn of the century illustrations. And Return to Oz captures that look so well, more Art Noveau compared to Wizard of Oz's Art Deco.
8:30- yeah, we went from bumbling kings and butlers, greedy crooks, and morally gray hunters to a nihilistic god complex willing to cause genocide and rule over a dystopian hellscape of the undead. You don’t get much darker than that.
The Black Cauldron would make for a real cool Zelda-esque video-game, or at least a stunning Kingdom Hearts world with an epic fight against The Horned King.
The Prydain series were some of the first books I purchased after getting a kindle. It makes me wish Disney would remake it as a series, as there's so much untapped potential.
Gummi Bears is surprisingly lore heavy (I mean it was a major inspiration for Gargoyles!) , so I'm looking forward to see you cover some of that in a future video :D
Return to oz is an underrated gem and more faithful to the Oz books more than the 1939 movie
Warms my heart you thought to cover the Nome King. Return to Oz is one of my all time favorite movies. The production design is gorgeous, the practical and visual effects (which were nominated for an Oscar) including the stop motion animation are incredible and David Shire's score is magical and cinematic.
Underrated gem
I think Creeper is the one of the most abused Disney sidekick along with Molt from Bugs Life and Fungus from Monsters Inc as he never had a Dog's bite back moment like the Hyenas killing Scar , Horace and Jasper telling Crulla to shut up , Mr Snoops laughing at Medusa becomign gator chow , or Midge teling Syndrom off or even Lefou with this . Gaston " Bell would do anything to make sure her father isnt in the looney bin " Lefou " Even marry him " . They's also Creeper gettign blamed for everythign that goes wrong even when it does'nt make sense
Been binge watching these and as a big Kingdom Hearts fan, I get unreasonably giddy whenever it gets brought up lmao. Great work, learning tons of stuff
I love this movie despite its questionable performance. It’s an 80s gem for me. The Horned King is one of my fave Disney villains!
I always thought of The Horned King in the books in a similar term to the way the original Clone Wars series depicted General Grievous or how Disney handled Shere Khan in the Jungle Book. You get such a build up to him and then suddenly he appears as an almost mute, killing machine that only Prince Gwydion has the power to best.
The Final Film version is good, but I feel like he could have been so much more. He just looks like a scarier version of Skeletor. I was hoping for someone far more ruthless, but I guess Disney fans had to wait until Ratigan or Ursula came about later. John Hurt did a fantastic job voicing him and I do enjoy the designs of the other villains, in particular the witches, the Gwythaints and the Deathless Warriors.
I think, of all the remakes Disney is making, this film should get a proper remake, hopefully being a more loyal adaptation this time. The Prydain books are my favorite of all time and really deserve a proper retelling. They were to children's fantasy what Harry Potter later became and I adore them. Guess it's only wishful thinking though, given all the issues Disney is facing with their studio now
I mean it would be pretty hard to be more ruthless than an undead sorcerer who uses his followers as tools and raw material to make an army of deathless animate corpses.
It’s always sad when Disney ignores some of their franchises. I’d love to see more Black Cauldron
Same :(( Altho I do remember seeing som Funko pops of Taran and the Horned King being sold online once
Thoughts on the Horned King: As a kid I admired the Horned King as an awesome scary medieval villain and he was an inspiration for Nevar the main villain of Scottish fantasy game show Raven which I grew up with. That's why the Black Cauldron is one of my guilty pleasures and it deserves a live action tv series in the veins of Raven and LOTR.
I feel like the Horned King would be a perfect villain for Kingdom Hearts, he could even be used as an explanation for why Heartless exist (since they share some small similarities to the Deathless Army, being an unending horde of monsters created by the 'deaths' of others). (that or one of the final fantasy villains, whicha re sorely mising from thee KH franchise aside from sephiroth)
4:07 The Horned King
13:11 Creeper
16:45 Gwythaints
17:57 Human Guards
20:15 Guard Dogs
21:03 The Cauldron-Born
23:39 The Witches of Morva
42:40 The Nome King
51:11 Mambi
Thanks
God, you don’t know how much I love and appreciate this series, you’re hard work and love for Disney really shows, as a huge Disney fan myself, I find all of your Disney villains retrospective videos deeply fascinating, and thank you for keeping up with them althought it might take you some time to make, you can’t imagine how excited I get everytime you announce a new villain retrospective, as always, thank you for your hard work and all the craft that comes with this videos, I truly adore them, keep it up! ❤️❤️❤️
I can assume Langwidere's consciousness is just always there.
Edit: I also personal find Creeper comparable to Inuyasha's Jaken since they're both little green creatures of unknown species and both are simperingly devoted to the masters who physically abuse them. The only difference is while Jaken sucks up to Sesshomaru mainly out of genuine loyalty and respect, Creeper's a suck up due to fear.
46:19
If I didnt know any better I'd say Pendelton Ward had some inspiration for the Ice King
I agree with the point about the Horned King not being very proactive it would have been nice if they had showed us more of what his powers could do or have him personally lead the army of the dead into battle there was a lot of missed potential when it came to the Horned King
I think the Witches of Morva had a lot of cauldrons for covering on where the true main cauldron was hidden beneath the ground and of them and also that's where they use to cook the humans turned into frogs, using not the same cauldron any other day, so they hold a record of a lot of them since they were keeping it for a hundred thousand years.
If I can compliment the movie on one thing, it’s made me want to read the books
YES!!! This was the video for me; my 2 personal favorite Disney films featured together!! BTW; there's also an "official" 'Return to Oz' fan-site that has plenty of interesting info well worth looking into. And I just gotta say; now matter what their flaws, the Disney films of the so-called 'Dark Age' are some of my all-time favs, and IMHO, HIGHLY underrated. Thanks for the video! =)
What I knew about the main-villain was that it was meant to be Arawn all the time and he looked a lot like the Horned King, and the Black Cauldron didn't have a link about a dark spirit within him, but then somehow the role got splitted in two as the main villain was just the Horned King all along while Arawn became the ancient evil warrior-king which his spirit lived within the Black Cauldron and got also unnamed.
Once again, as with including Tron last time around, you picked up on one of my favourite childhood films paired with a classic Disney villain!
And wow, if asked to pick which film scared the pants off me as a small child, it would definitely be return to oz!
Melty face corpse skeletons? no problem, but psycho momby, the horribly nice gnome king and a desert that turns everything to sand! Yeeech!
I distinctly remember as a six year old, avoiding stepping on any yellow or cream coloured patches in the carpet for fear that it was a bit of that desert!
Your getting close to Disney renaissance and beginning retrospective of Disney tv shows can’t wait for them
The Disney Afternoon will be exciting, but to see the eventual modern Disney TV shows in the near future will be great.
@@KaizokuGaeru yes especially will he put Merlock from the Ducktales movie as a bonus
@@srstriker6420I’d imagine all Ducktales related villains will be put together in one video. He did say it would be a large enough video when Sheldgoose was moved to the first Catch Up video as he explained.
I believe after Great Mouse Detective is Oliver and Company, and after that will be the Little Mermaid, though I imagine he will be talking about Who frame Roger rabbit and Judge doom first before little mermaid.
@@KaizokuGaeruI agree. While Disney's fumbled a bit with villains in their recent films, their TV animated villains are excellent. Dr. Doofenshmirtz, Bill Cipher, Lord Dominator, Toffee, King Andrias, Emperor Belos, etc. Lots of great animated evil fun to be had on the small screen!
I’m just gonna say this, I think we will see the Horned King at a Disney Park in the near future specifically at Oogie Boogie Bash. We have seen that they can do interactive skeletons with Ernesto and the Horned King can also fit into that style. Plus, he actually fits in to the event really well as the event is a bit more mature compared Not So Scary at Magic Kingdom. So if there willing to bring Judge Doom who is considered a really scary villain and has killed a character in front of viewers, why not bring the King to the event.
31:42 Why have I never heard of this movie??? Like not even a passing reference. I would have LOVED having this as a kid. XD
I don't believe it was ever released in North America. I didn't know about it until recently.
@@ColinLooksBack Is it the ONLY time Disney has acknowledge Home on the Range ?
In preparation for this video, I went back and re-watched The Black Cauldron on Disney+. Before that, I had only seen this movie once as a kid. I barely remember anything about it, mostly what happens at the beginning and end of the movie (I completely forgot about the Fair Folk or what happened to Hen Wen), and upon rewatching it... well, it's hard for me to know if I really liked it or not. It definitely does not feel like a Disney movie, right from the opening describing the origins of The Black Cauldron; seeing that bit of blood in Taran's mouth while he tries to get Hen Wen back, it caught me off-guard. The movie reminded me of Ralph Bakshi's The Lord of the Rings in a way, with how "high fantasy" the story feels, and much like that movie, I can't help but wonder if being more familiar with the original books would make me appreciate what's on-screen more, or if it would just frustrate me...
As for The Horned King, I suppose it's no surprise that he's got a bit of a cult following among Disney Villains; like the movie as a whole has a bit of a cult following, but the Horned King really stands out as a very creepy and sinister presence. Even if he doesn't do all that much, the scenes he does get are unnerving and really dig into you. Props the the late John Hurt for that voice, he really did a good job with the role, even if the Horned King, like the movie as a whole, is rather flawed in its execution. After watching the movie, I thought to myself if the Horned King motivations were a bit simplistic, but upon thinking all this, it reminded me of how many Disney villains have limited and/or shallow motivation and it didn't stop them from being memorable or considered one of the greats. In the case of the Horned King, I don't think he's one of the best Disney villains, but he's definitely memorable enough to get an honorable mention at the very least... especially given his death scene. Geez, surprised that made it into the final cut of the movie.
Now Creeper, he's a lot like Sir Hiss in that he's a minion who gets a lot of abuse from the main villain, though The Black Cauldron goes beyond that to show he's mistreated by the rest of the Horned King's henchmen. He gets no respect at all... not that he necessarily deserves it; the few times things go his way or he's in some position of authority he barks orders and throws what little weight he has around. Still, it's difficult not to sympathize with him somewhat, and it does make me happy to see him gloat over his boss's demise. The witches were also surprisingly memorable to me, as one of the few things I remembered as a kid. Particularly how that one big witch Orwen had the hots for Fflewddur while the other witches tried to turn him into a toad and eat him. There's something I find oddly appealing about stereotypical witches like this (and Madam Mim for that matter), they're definitely a lot of fun to watch, though the movie left me curious as to why they have the Black Cauldron... Guess it's better explained in the books.
I actually like that your doing the Nome King from Return to Oz, he's a villain I didn't even fully consider for this retrospective. I suppose he is partially stop-motion, so he technically counts as being animated. I've actually read a few of the Oz books, and the interesting thing about them is that, despite the Wicked Witch of the West being more iconic, she dies in the first book like she does in the famous movie, while it's the Nome King who is more of a recurring antagonist in the books. His first appearance in the third book mirrors that of how he appears in the movie, though he's smaller and more round compared to his movie counterpart and doesn't get involved with Mombi (who shows up in the second book, Return to Oz combines the two), and also he doesn't die in the end. What I find fascinating is his claim that the Emeralds in the Emerald City belonged to the Nomes and they were simply taking back what was rightfully there's, while turning everyone else to stone and kidnapping the Scarecrow while they're at it. Whether the emeralds truly were stolen or the Nomes merely claimed ownership of them because they were underground originally is something I forget the exact specifics off, but I'd like to think it's the latter, especially when the Nome King reveals he's not nearly as honorable as he presents himself. He gives Dorothy and the heroes a fighting chance, but once Dorothy figures out inanimate objects everyone was turned into, the Nome King goes back on his word and tries to kill everyone. Like The Black Cauldron, I saw this movie once when I was a kid, and holy Hell did the scene of the Nome King eating the Gump's couch body really freak me out, as did him almost eating Jack Pumpkinhead. Definitely a memorable villain, kind of a shame Return to Oz isn't as well know as the original classic.
In closing, I want to say I'm REALLY looking forward to you finally getting into the villains from Disney's animated TV shows, there's a lot of them, and some are more memorable than others. Combining the Wuzzles and the Gummi Bears is probably a good idea for the next one... Though I don't even know what the Fluppy Dogs even is, or that it even existed, holy smokes...
My wife and I just got into that new Disney card game Lorcana and we’ve been talking about possible cards they could add in the future and after this video I am READY for a Black Cauldron set. Lemme summon The Horned King!
This was a big one, almost as big as the box office disappointment that was the Black Cauldron.
This retrospective chapter was truly amazing. I love both of these movies so much. Creeper is certainly one of my favorite characters. I can see why so many commentators are excited about the Horned king and I like him a lot too but I’m putting my flag behind Creeper as my favorite villain from this movie! Creeper is just so much fun. I miss Disney creations like him! From the very first time I watched Black Cauldron as a kid, I instantly loved Creeper and he will always be highly appreciated on my favorite henchmen list! I also love the witches, they’re highly underrated and truly hilarious! The witches and Creeper definitely deserve more support and I’m definitely happy to put my flag behind them. Thank you for covering Return to OZ! It’s amazing! I have to track down a copy of this movie on DVD someday! I loved it so much growing up. Looking forward to your next chapter in this series!
Oz needs a uhd 4k
This was one of my favorite Disney movies as a kid, particularly because it reminds me so much of Star Wars and John Hurt It’s like Darth Vader in the Emperor rolled into one.
Well I thought of this movie as Lord of the Rings
in my recent rewatch of descendants 3, i noticed that you can see the black cauldron in the museum!! during audrey’s song, when she takes the scepter, what looks like the black cauldron is in the background. i never noticed that until now 😭
I love the black Cauldron, I wish it did go alittle more spooky.
But, Return To Oz....that movie, I watch it every halloween. I remember as a kid being terrified during Mombie's headless scene... her running down the hall of screaming heads, chasing Dorothy. But it was more weird and cool, so I could handle it. I love the books and I've watched many different tv adaptations of them. My absolute favorite one is a mini series called "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" from 1986 to 1987. I can't get enough of it, I still watch it (I found several dvds)
I love how Black Cauldron and QUest for Camelot had similar development problems that lasted for years and both came out not bad necessarily but flopped on release and now have cult followings. I think between the two films there's a great movie in there somewhere
BC was an attempt to cash in on the dark Fantasy films of the early 80s while QfC was an attempt to cash in on the popularity of Renaissance Disney musicals -- Chronicles of Prydain and The King's Damosel are both great books though
While i barely remember a thing about this movie's plot and setting, every disturbing moment has been burned into my brain since the day i saw it.
Why, thank you for releasing this so close to my Birthday.
I now know what I'll watch while I eat my dinner and my cake.
Also, this is the first time John Hurt voiced a villain as his previous voice role was actually the protagonist Hazel from Watership Down, which got its animated series in which he voiced General Woundwort.
I always forget that return to Oz is a Disney movie. It was one of my favorites growing up because it scared me so much, but I could never get it at blockbuster cause someone rented it and never gave it back
At Spanish speaking people there happened a lot of changes on the character's names so they could be kinda more understandable for the audience as the original Welsh-type are kinda odd, and even the Horned King got a rather fitting cool darker name as "The King of Evil" (El Rey del Mal), simplier yet kinda more compelling gruesome than the English version.
Aside of that other characters got huge changes as King Eidelwig became King Henry (Rey Enrique), Princess Eillonwy became Princess Ellen (Princesa Elena) and Flwedden Flame became Faust Flame (Fausto Flama), as the Welsh names were so hard to grasp on Spanish speakers.
If Disney was so scared with this film initially having an R rating, why couldn't they have put it under the Touchstone label?
I think an R rated animated adventure movie would be an easy sell at the time even on a different label. Animation was seen almost exclusively as a children's medium at the time in the states. Released without the fanfare of being part of the Disney Studio lineage and with the Scarlet R on it, It might've become a huge cult classic, but would've been Box Office Suicide. And at the time, Cult Classic was a terrible strategy before home media boom of the 90s.
That would be cool.
@@rvawildcardwolf2843 Quite sad that people still view animation as childish when there are plenty of adult animated shows and movies that proved the argument wrong time and again.
Heavy metal was an r rated animated fantasy and was a box office hit
Japan really loved him
I love the horn king.
He was my favorite underrated villain.
And John hurt is perfect voice.
I think the books are waaaay better but i will admit the movie version The Horned King is an huge improvment of his book counterpart.
I still love this movie i have lots of nostaligia for it.
The Horned King is also playable in Disney Heroes: Battle Mode
Looking forward to Ratigan!
Me too
Oh my gosh, I remeber that Choose Your Own Adventure comic (or, *a* choose your own adventure comic about Taran, don't know if the German version was the same one).
Little me was sooooooo confused by the concept
😂
I believe the original printing was in French, which was the one I was able to locate. There's a second one out there, but it's shorter and doesn't feature any of the main villains.
@@ColinLooksBack The only things I remember were:
- It was about The Dark Cauldron, and
- it had a weird structure I later came to know and love as Choose Your Own Adventure structure.
Nice to know there were two of them! 🙂
Here is how I make The Black Cauldron better. Make Taran doubt whether he is truly worthy of the title "warrior". You can have him fantasise about being a great warrior, but also make him realistically acknowledge that he knows his place as an assistant pig-keeper and it was going to be that way. Enter the Gwythaints whom captured Hen Wen and it is up to Taran to save the pig because that was his responsibilty as an assistant pig-keeper. Taran then meets Gurgi, through trial and error, whom guides him where were the Gwythaints were flying to and then told him that these creatures were the servants of the fearsome Horned King. Taran thanked Gurgi and then rushed towards the castle gates. Whilst there, he meets Princess Eilonwy and Fflewddur Fflam, whom were prisoners of the Horned King. Eilonwy asked Taran if he was there to rescue her and Fflam, but Taran said that he was looking for Hen Wen, his pig, that had been captured since it is his responsiblity as an assistant pig-keeper. Both Eilonwy and Fflam know where the pig but in exchange, Taran needs to unlock them from their prison and Fflam knows where the keys is. Taran, through steadiness and caution, got the keys and unlocked them from their prison and both Eilonwy and Fflam went into the direction that they saw Hen Wen with Taran following them. After reuniting with Hen Wen and getting a brief confrontation from the Horned King, Taran and company escaped the army and went into the forest for hiding and taking a breather.
Both Eilonwy and Fflam, with the former especially, congratulated Taran for setting them free and saving Hen Wen and called him a "warrior". Taran thanked her gratification but then said that he isn't a 𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘳𝘪𝘰𝘳 warrior but more as just a regular assistant pig-keeper and that he knows his place. Eilonwy then wisely states that it doesn't matter what sort of person are you to become a warrior, it is what who you are to become a warrior and she occasionally says that whenever Taran doubts himself.
Through many trials and tribulations such as meeting with Gurgi again, finding the sword, meeting the witches, discovering the Black Cauldron and defeating the Horned King once and for all, Taran finally becomes worthy of a "warrior".
Also, is it me or does Raya and the Last Dragon felt like The Black Cauldron all over again although slightly better? Another thing. Belos from The Owl House is a much better Horned King than the Horned King himself.
i woulnt call it slightly better as it was too black and white on trust
I'm one of the few people who've read the Chronicles of Prydain. They're pretty good. I feel like there was a bit too many plot points that almost directly happen in The Lord of the Rings. That includes most of the main characters going to the undying lands at the end of the series. It's pretty bizarre and probably moreso because they had very similar inspirations.
I just watched Return to Oz for the first time a few days ago. How convenient that the Nome King is in this video.
I am so fascinated by the Point and Click game shown here. It's so clearly one of the reference points for Peasant's Quest from Homestar Runner, and I love it.
According ti yesterworld some people at Disney are interested in releasing an extended cut of the film. One even talked to Roy back when he was around about it. We can only hope it happens someday.
Nice coverage. One thing to mention is that Alwine mentioned in an interview that he voiced the henchman that flirted with the Sexy Dancer just before the Horned King made his entrance.
Very good to know! Thanks!
And yeah, I totally agree; I miss the days when kids'-movie actually dared to give us a few nightmares. =) XD
55:30
Well that didn’t age well as it’s now gone. Disney seems to really hate Return to Oz.
RIP John Hurt (the voice of the Horned King)
Edit 2:
I've seen how fans of the original books call "Return to Oz" faithful to the original source material.
Edit:
I heard somewhere that Walt wanted to adapt the Wizard of Oz back in the 1930s before finding out that MGM already had the rights to the story.
When you do end up looking at Ratigan, I wanted you to know he made a small cameo in an episode of Quack Pack, in episode 5, "Pride Goeth Before the Fall Guy", where he appears as a collectable card,part of a series of cards based on infamous criminals.
Groovy Foes!! Neat Detail combo of Creepy Nostalgia!! I hope Some day or somewhere whe get a properly return or consideration for such trilling, grim Villans but mostly to those Epic style plot stoyies with innocent but also growing Characters!!! Neat Review for such Wicked Dúo of Nightmares!! Behind all the flaws they Trully became frigthing classics and inspiratives módels too! Thank you so much!! Means a Lot and i cant wait the adventures of the Gummie Bears review soon!! Yay!!
Ghostbusters wasn't the first movie score that Elmer Bernstein used the Ondes Martenot for. He used it three years earlier in Heavy Metal.