I may not like Disney's live-action Alice In Wonderland movie nearly as much as their animated one, but I can at least respect it for being its own thing rather than trying to "replace" its animated counterpart, unlike most Disney live-action remakes.
@@wickedfeylady Well, I think some of the movies before the Mulan remake were okay. When 2020 Mulan shows up... Nuh-uh! NOPE! Don't want to deal with any more remakes after that.
One thing I find fascinating is Japan’s fascination with Alice in Wonderland. I’m not even just talking about Kingdom Hearts. They just love the aesthetic of Alice in Wonderland. You can find countless manga artists drawing their characters in outfits modeled after Alice in Wonderland and even some manga retellings. I find that interesting.
The amount of Alice in wonderland merchandise are much more than the Disney princesses. They have like a bunch of Alice in wonderland puzzles. Even underrated characters have their plush e.g. March Hare in Nuimo. I remember there's a Disney store that the first floor was rabbit hole. The lobby of the resort have the 4 colors of tea cup couch and themed room for Alice.
@@memethyst you know there are times in which disney puts him and the mad hatter among the disney villains, i can understand how the cheshire cat can be a villain but the hatter seam odde
One insteresting thing about the KH manga shows Sora, after fighting a giant Heartless sent by the Cheshire Cat to test him, calling the cat out by asking which side he's on. Cheshire doesn't answer that, and only says that Alice is not in Wonderland anymore. A few pages later, we're shown the main Disney Villains commenting angrily about the cat deciding to give a hint to Sora, adding that Cheshire would've been a great ally, if only he didn't refuse the invitation to join them. So, canonically, Cheshire is considered great villain material, but he prefers to do his own thing. As for the Queen of Hearts, later in the game, she's shown to actually make sure that Wonderland doesn't get consumed by darkness. And another game, called Disney Magical Castle, show some rather cute instances of her love for her husband, while still being her usual short-tempered self.
@@XenomorphXIII 358/2 manga is my favorite! I remember there's a moment of Captain Hook that somehow he cares about Peterpan, but I don't really remember the story during that part.
I'd like to point out that the Cheshire cat does get Alice home. It is her confrontation with the queen, provoked by the Cheshire Cat, which causes Alice to wake up. Which is what Alice wanted help with. Cheshire Cat isn't a villain. He's the only character who actually helps Alice.
The Queen of Hearts was also an inspiration for Miss Trunchbull from Matilda, as they both resort to extreme punishments when they don't get their own way and have a very short temper. Also it would be terrifying if the Queen of Hearts had her very own chokey, in which Alice would have to escape from.
I don't think any of the wonderland characters are evil or good. They are just neutral and they don't have a moral compass due to their insanity, and even thou they sometimes commit very cuestionable actions they aren't evil, they are just mad.
Considering the rules of their world, Id say Alice is the villain, since shes the odd one out. Somewhat like the Requiem Vampire Knight comic, where evil is rewarded in the afterlife and good is punished, here, logic is the villain, while insanity is the only good in their world
It can be argued that the Cheshire cat was actually trying to help Alice by sending her to the queen and provoking her, assuming he knew she would wake up if she was about to be killed.
I used to check out the making of Alice in wonderland from the gold classic vhs tapes growing up and when costumed characters are introduced in one segment it’s very clearly a man dressed as the queen and shows up saying “Off with his head! Off with her head! Off with THEIR heads!”😂 and it’s a woman as the dormouse
@@memethyst Apparantly, the Winnie the Pooh ride in Disney World still has some audio recordings from Paul Winchell in it. So there is something nice about the parks keeping old voice actors for the characters.
I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention the Cheshire Cat taught Sora magic in the manga. It's just the best example of how he seems to be doing whatever amuses him.
If anything, I think the Disney Company is trying to retroactively turn the remakes into discount versions of episodes from the Show, starting with Alice, Cinderella and Mulan.
I'm surprised you even included the Walrus and the Carpenter as villains, though I can see why in retrospect with both the film, the original book, and other adaptations. Plus on a little fun fact you've overlooked: While the Walrus doesn't appear in the Tim Burton film, he does make a cameo as a portrait in one of the Queen's rooms. Same with the Mock Turtle and Gryphon. Same goes with the deleted song "I'm Odd", the closest to a villain song along with "Beware the Jabberwock." Also funny how like Stromboli and later Kaa, the Cheshire Cat was another character that wasn't a villain in the book, turned into a villain.
the walrus and the carpenter is one of my favorite part of the movie along side the mad tea party, olso can we appreciate how they are a subversion of the usual fat and skinny dynamic, usually the skinny one is smart and the fat one is dumme but in this case the roles are reverse
This movie stressed me out as a kid (and, lol, let's be honest, even as an adult!!!) because everyone is SO MEAN to Alice! Top Shelf work (as always), and let me know if you or want resources for the Peter Pan video!
I used to like the movie a lot more as a kid but now I just feel really bad for Alice. That's why I have a soft spot for Adventures in Wonderland. I like the idea of Wonderland being an escapist world from the hum-drum real world.
Honestly, Ken Page playing two very, very different kinds of Disney baddies with extremely similar motives really amazes me. Oh, btw, he's also the cannibalistic monster Oogie Boogie to those who are gonna ask in the comments after reading this.
In Once Upon a Time in Wonderland (a sadly underrated one-season show), the Cheshire Cat appeared. While he was apparently on good terms with Alice in the past, he is now much more sinister, with seemingly-murderous intent, and was voiced by Keith David.
@@andrewgoeing2701 I live in the UK, it's strange that it's on American Disney Plus and not UK Disney plus since it is a British story after all written by a British author
The queen accused child of "stealing her heart"? sounds to me like it's the queen who should be on trial (yeh,I know what the actual context is, but out of context it just sounds so hilariously wrong)
I'm glad you pointed out the 2010s live-action AiW being more of a separate adaptation than a live-action remake. I see it grouped in as one of those a lot.
When I was a kid I always hated those flowers in Alice in wonderland. I hated the fact they jumped straight to the fact that Alice was a weed... Like wouldn't they have guessed that she wasn't a weed since Alice looks NOTHING LIKE A WEED. I'm pretty if you didn't want a weed in your garden, you'd be pretty familiarised by them. I especially hated that lavender, violet, whatever flower that purple one was with the glasses because she was quick to call Alice a weed. I always wanted to pluck them slowly out of the ground just because I hated them so much.
Queen of Hearts remains one of my favorite Disney villains solely because of her constant want to lose her temper. Compare that to many other Disney villains who are calm and collective during most of their screentime in their respective movies.
A fun and interesting fact about Kingdom Hearts and Alice in Wonderland, Alice’s Voice actor was actually Kathryn Beaumont (the original VA) she reprised her role as Alice and she also voiced Kairi’s grandmother as well. Seeing her revoice her role 51 years apart was something truly special ^-^ (Alice in wonderland-1951/Kingdom Hearts 2002)
In the original book, the Cheshire Cat is outright the only friend Alice makes and even if he's a weirdo who doesn't help much, whenever he shows up he's a comforting presence because it feels like there's someone genuinely on Alice's side. I wish the film kept that instead of making him the same flighty irrational jerk as the rest of the Wonderlanders
The Cheshire cat was going to have a song called, "I'm Odd" but it was cut so he could make a reference to jabberwocky by singing the first stanza of the poem
One nice detail I like is that the Cheshire Cat sings a little bit of the Jabberwocky poem in the animated film; it’s a nice way to give a little callback to such a memorable character!
I just want to say that this channel is absolutely wonderful. So well researched, and delivered. This villain series specifically is always one of my most anticipated TH-cam series. Thanks for the great work! :)
When I was a kid, I thought the Carpenter was a seafood chef. At that I time I didn't see Alice In Wonderland from start to finish and much of the clips showing the Carpenter like in the DTV music videos made him seem like a seafood chef in the way he prepares the food for the Walrus and the Oysters, and his attire looked more like that a seafood chef/server than a carpenter. My uncle's a carpenter and I'd never seen him wear a white apron and what looks like a paper hat. Have you? The only thing he did that was even remotely carpentry was building that shack or whatever you wanna call it.
Well this is a 1950’s animated movie based on a 1860’s Victorian English children’s story so maybe that was how some of them looked in either of those time periods.
@@brandonlyon730 Yes, but as I said, I didn't see the movie from start to finish when I was a kid. I should also note, I never read the book, illustrations, and all, when I was a kid, so give me some credit here. When I saw Kevin Smith's 1999 film Dogma where Matt Damon's character talks about the Walrus and the Carpenter bit, that was when I realized I was hilariously wrong.
Next time you do the Peter Pan one make sure you put in "a good pirate never steals another persons property" 'cause it's the funniest **** I've ever seen.
What’s especially crazy about the renewed interest Alice went through is that it happened in the 60s when LSD of all things became popular. Imagine watching Alice while high as a kite on acid
Tell me I'm not the only one who thought the Queen of Hearts was the mother of Fred Flintstone? I mean he does look enough like her to be her son, although I never suspected the King of Hearts was Flintstone's dad. Hey, Stone is a bastard surname in George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, given to bastards born in the Kingdom of the Vale, maybe Bedrock followed that logic, or illogic if in Wonderland.
Wow, the fact that the bats warn Alice and she threatens them with Dina reminds me of how in the book Alice is thinking about Dina falling with her and thinking that there’s no rats but Dina might be able to catch a bat, and going into “do cats eat bats/do bats eat cats.”
Once you get all the way up to Raya, it would be interesting to point out that by the time the movie came out, many, many people saw Disney themselves as evil for stuff like the Uiyghr controversy.
Another time the cat seems to be subtly leading people to trouble for his amusement was in kh 1 ,after alice dissappears ,before the gang can leave wonderland the cat leads them on an wild goose chase to find the key hole by turning on the lights in the round room...all this does is summon the second boss (or 3rd/4th depending on the order you play surten worlds) trick Master, after said battle, the talking door was coincidently awakened by the noise and yawns reveling the key hole...the cat trys to role with it pretending this was his plan all along. he does this again with roxas (in kh 359/2 days) , but at least this time around roxas was actually looking for the heartless, this one know as twin pranksters.
Man, Dan hall's version of the story was early dark disney stuff. I think it was softened after the war because people wanted to think of nicer things after a war decade. But seriously this movie, and Peter pan I notice had darker iterations that could have had different reactions to the public if released back then an again were delayed due to the war. Also its interesting how disney made a blowhard in the book into an actual threat.
I never liked "The Walrus & The Carpenter" part nor the two characters in general. I usually skip their part. I do enjoy the Queen & King of Hearts, as well as the Cheshire Cat (even though he's more of a neutral character & trouble maker than a villain).
There’s also an Alice in Wonderland Maze in Shanghai Disneyland’s Fantasyland. It’s based on the live action Alice films instead of the 1953 animated one like Alice’s Curious Labyrinth in Disneyland Paris.
Here in Dorset, there's an Alice in Wonderland theme park (that's since been revamped to include a jungle themed area) and I still have fond memories of it. Also in the KH Manga, Luxord actually charms the queen by making her a castle made of cards when it starts to rain.
Slight thing that you forgot to mention in the 358/2 Days manga: the Queen of Hearts ends up falling in love with Luxord after he charms her and uses his cards to build her a new house. It's honestly one of my favorite segments of the entire manga.
Another villain duo that can be compared to Foulfellow and Gideon are Gonzorgo and Rodrigo from Babes in Toyland. One does all the talking and the other is literally seen but not heard.
18:34 Having the voice of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum voice all of the characters in the story that those characters are telling Alice is such a great detail that I did not know until watching this video.
For the wonderland comic I like how they actually reference the other cards suits because I think it’s kind of weird that the queen of hearts has spades clubs and diamonds working for her also I’m guessing Peter Pan is going to take a lot longer mostly because this is the first Series do you have a connection to The movie and not just the reimagining and I’m guessing you’re gonna have to pick and choose which villains from Jake and the Neverland Pirates you want to use also I think there’s going to be a new Disney Junior show based on hours in wonderland
I've never actually looked into the stories or the movie other than a few, but it's definitely a fun warehouse. I think the The Jungle Book villains and their actual motives would be interesting, since some is just instinct, protection, or interest.
8:46: No one brings up why Alice shrunk, so I'll give the explanation: Alice ate both pieces of the Mushroom, one that grows and one that shrinks, not realizing that having to eat both of them would result in the shrinking effects take hold soon after.
28:51 jeez, that’s one hell of a skimpy outfit for Alice in the 70s. You can even see her uncovered knees. We must inform the village elders. You don’t see that in Disney parks anymore. Theses days her skirt is way past her knees and she seems to wear full length tights
A year late, but you forgot to mention The King of Hearts' appearance during Tokyo Disneyland's 30th Anniversary Parade "Happiness is Here" and the "Dreaming Up! Parade" for the park's 35th Anniversary.
Personally, the only characters in "Alice in Wonderland" that I consider villains are the Queen of Hearts and Mr. Walrus. The Carpenter seems too stupid to be a genuine villain, the King of Hearts is just there, and the Cheshire Cat is certainly a jerk but I wouldn't go so far as to call him a villain. As for the other characters... I know the Mad Hatter and the March Hare were put on some Disney Villain merchandise, but I don't think they're villainous. Unhelpful, yes. Mad, definitely. But I don't think they're malicious. The White Rabbit and the Doorknob definitely don't count. Mr. Dodo and Bill the Lizard seem friendly enough, just not very helpful. The Caterpillar and the flowers are jerks, but I wouldn't dub them villains either. As for the Tweedles, I think they fall into the same "not evil, just mad and not very helpful" category as the Hatter and the March Hare. Also, I'm really glad they didn't have Alice under the guillotine like in David Hall's version. And yeah, seeing Alice without a head is terrifying.
I disagree with you, the Cheshire Cat is a villains to me, much more than the Queen of Hearts. While the Queen is motly just like every other citizen of Wonderland absolutely nuts, the Cheshire seems to know what he is doing and is even said in some Kingdom Hearts adaptations that he almost worked with Maleficent and that's why he can control the Heartless
I know we could’ve had our “first” Disney couple in WISH if it had gone with the drafts and plot, but we have the Queen of Hearts and her husband RIGHT HERE!!!
That's what I was thinking! They compliment each other quite well also. There's no way the king could run Wonderland all by himself since nobody but the queen seems to take him seriously, and if it weren't for the king being only one able to talk some sense into the queen and pardon everyone in secret, things would be much more chaotic. There are some older recordings that were scrapped from the film and the two of them weren't supposed to get along at all. The queen actually called the king an idiot at one point like in the book! 😂 He was originally going to be of normal height instead of dwarf as well.
I agree that the Tim Burton Alice in Wonderlands don't really count for the live action remakes. They aren't a remake of the animated film, they're just from the same source material. Also, I really liked Once Upon a Time in Wonderland but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority on that one. *SHRUG*
There’s actually a twisted tale about Alice in wonderland. It’s called unbirthday. It would have been really useful if he referenced the twisted tale book, it really expands the wonderland lore as well as having a good real plot. Id really recommend it if you enjoy the movie and world in general.
And also you forgot to include MOBILE GAMES in the Video game section since both the Queen and Cheshire Cat are welcomed characters in Disney Magic Kingdoms during the Alice in Wonderland event
I’m surprise that Twisted Wonderland wasn’t feature in this video as this Japanese mobile game is own by Disney. Of course, since this video got release on 2021, the game was only in Japanese. But now in 2022, it got released in English!
I just got a little niece named Alice. It's her mother's middle name, and her favourite Disney movie was this one. Plus she's probably going to be blonde because she already looks like her mother, who was golden blonde when she was young, and then dark blonde later. I'm planning to give her my pristine hardback copy of Wonderland. Verna Felton was a Golden and SiIver Era Disney veteran, for sure. I actually never liked Flora. The way she brushed off Merryweather always irritated me.
And also you forgot to include cartoon shows on this entire video Like Alice's Wonderland Bakery which is a Disney Jr show that focus's on Alice's Great Great Granddaughter(Who shared the same same as her) who owns a bakery and in the show, both the Queen of Hearts and the King of Hearts arent married but related which the Queen of Hearts has a Latina heritage and is more nicer for the younger viewers and has a daughter named Rosa while the King himself is the father of the Queen of Hearts and the grandfather of Rosa who is also nice to Alice too. For the Cheshire Cat he is more mellowed out and he does help the current Alice a times and more nicer than he did in the film but he does confuse her and any Wonderland citizens sometimes like his movie counterpart
you know... in all this disney villain retrospectives I dont think I have seen you bring up twisted wonderland, is a mobile game with lots of disney villains as redesigned by teh creator of black butler, and it is done by disney.You might not have heard about it sicne its kinda recent tought id inform you
I just finished making two stained glass cheshire cats. They were done using an antique Disney pattern done in partnership with a German glass pattern maker. One I did in more Disney like colours using an antique lavander irridescent glass and a darker purple water glass and the other I did in a tim burton style with a streaky teal glass and an irridescent grey.
Oh yes this movie!! The queen is to me....just plain nuts!!! I mean seriously what's with her and cutting off heads?! Anyway love your videos Collin!!!!💙💙
Just found this channel, and I love it! Working my way through this series on Disney villains has been very entertaining and fascinating. I'm very much looking forward to when you one day do a video about Professor Ratigan from The Great Mouse Detective. It's my favorite Disney movie, I don't think it gets enough attention, and I think Ratigan is a very interesting villain.
You know, Mike Matei's video on Carl Barks got be intrigued at a young age, but your videos talking about Yellowbeak and the Mickey Mouse Comic Strip and those weird crossovers that used to always happen really sealed the deal in making me finally check them out and start reading them. I gotta say, I like 'em. I've only read two Captain Hook stories so far, but I can't help but notice that in them Hook's right hand man Smee is strangely different, like he was always on the bad guy's side but in the comics I've seen he seems just as evil as Hook and follows his orders without making any mistakes, is that how he always is in the comics?
Speaking of the Walrus and the Carpenter, you ever read the Roger Langridge comic series "Snarked?" I don't know if it's easy to track down now, but I highly recommend it.
I love all these retrospectives, thank you for all the effort you put in. Your channel is truly wonderful. There is also a Alice in Wonderland ride in Blackpool pleasure beach in the UK, I believe it is the oldest ride in the park and has always been on of my favourites. There is a particularly cool part where it seems like you are upside down and also you transport for the ride is a Cheshire cat! Xx
I would say that, from the point of view of normal people, almost everyone in Wonderland is an antagonist, being amoral sociopaths. Only a handful of characters make an effort to help Alice get home, and they are sabotaged by another character shortly after. Of course, the citizens of Wonderland aren't mean, exactly; they simply don't care about anything beyond their nonsensical games. As terrifying as the Queen of Hearts is, the Mad Hatter and the March Hare also stand out for me as obnoxious antagonists. They NEVER let Alice drink any tea, then disingenuously ask her why she doesn't "take more" (and insist that she CAN take more, because she "can't very well take less"). As nasty a place as Wonderland would be in real life, though ALICE IN WONDERLAND is an underrated gem among Disney's animated films, and one of my favorites. To me it deserves to be high up enough to be on the level of PINOCCHIO and PETER PAN.
My favorite part of the Disney animated version (and part of this is because I saw it on Disney Channel back when it was traditionally aired on Easter on Disney Channel) is how all the visuals get momentarily desaturated the moment that the "mad" watch gets smashed.
To me, the Cheshire Cat seemed the only of the alleged villains, that was actually more mad than bad. What he did seemed typical cat to me, just having his own agenda, and being well... Catty (aloof, self interest minded) living with Alice and Dinah in the real world would have cured him, I think. He'd have a loving friend in both the girl and her pet cat. Just putting that out there ..
Don't think of Alice in Wonderland characters as "evil". Think of them as an entire cast if Chaotic Neutral "that guys" that ruin TTRPG games with really stupid decisions. Whether it be bullying other players, playing nasty pranks on the unstable DMPC because it's funny and because the DMPC keeps TPKing the party, pestering Father Time himself until the DM freezes time for them as a punishment, or eating children NPCs just because they can.
Although the Queen of Hearts has a fiery temper, she's not the deadliest card in the deck! That honor goes to the Ace of Spades, because that's the card of death, historically speaking!
If I remember correctly.... The Walrus and the Carpenter were supposedly analogous to a Incident in London. Where a Dock yard was constructed by some worker/laborers/carpenter's, on the promise of "Pearls" or oysters from the profits of said dock yard... By some upper crust wealthy type, walrus proxy. Only to it eventually come out that the Walruses have Eaten up the whole profit. Or something like that.
I may not like Disney's live-action Alice In Wonderland movie nearly as much as their animated one, but I can at least respect it for being its own thing rather than trying to "replace" its animated counterpart, unlike most Disney live-action remakes.
This. Summed it up perfectly.
@@wickedfeylady Well, I think some of the movies before the Mulan remake were okay. When 2020 Mulan shows up... Nuh-uh! NOPE! Don't want to deal with any more remakes after that.
For all the crap that the 2010 Alice in Wonderland movie gets, at least it tried to be different.
Am i the only one who didnt hate that movie because it was trying to be something different
@@coffintears5821 I liked it that tried to be different while still maintaining the Alice in Wonderland spirit.
the Cheshire Cat is pretty much the embodiment of chaotic neutral
fr
Chaotic Impure
He's just like a real cat.😂
One thing I find fascinating is Japan’s fascination with Alice in Wonderland. I’m not even just talking about Kingdom Hearts. They just love the aesthetic of Alice in Wonderland. You can find countless manga artists drawing their characters in outfits modeled after Alice in Wonderland and even some manga retellings. I find that interesting.
If you wanna stretch it so far, Alice in Wonderland is technically a isekai
Like how Mario’s mushrooms were inspired by Alice’s mushrooms, in order to visually say “this makes you bigger”
The amount of Alice in wonderland merchandise are much more than the Disney princesses. They have like a bunch of Alice in wonderland puzzles. Even underrated characters have their plush e.g. March Hare in Nuimo.
I remember there's a Disney store that the first floor was rabbit hole.
The lobby of the resort have the 4 colors of tea cup couch and themed room for Alice.
Well of course, Japan loves batsh*t insane things
@@alishanightshade3270 Twisted Wonderland also released two years ago
To be fair, the Cheshire Cat is more of a troublemaker really.
yeah i think he it's more of chaotic neutral character, and that is what makes him great
Yeah, that's pretty much how I've always read the character as well!
ive always seen him as morally ambiguous, not a villain but not a good guy either, but i can see why people could consider him a villain
@@memethyst you know there are times in which disney puts him and the mad hatter among the disney villains, i can understand how the cheshire cat can be a villain but the hatter seam odde
@@detectivewobbuffet2778 i've seen the cat considered a villain but i've never seen the mad hatter considered a villain, that's definitely odd
Who is and isn't a villain in Wonderland? Depends on when you meet them.
True, true.
So true😮
I always thought the story about the oysters was a stranger danger lesson
I thought so too
I can see that
Me too
Haiji “The Walrus” Towa
Yeah, even as a kid, I got a weird sexual predator vibe from them. Kind of like the wolf in Into The Woods. "Eating" is symbolic.
One insteresting thing about the KH manga shows Sora, after fighting a giant Heartless sent by the Cheshire Cat to test him, calling the cat out by asking which side he's on. Cheshire doesn't answer that, and only says that Alice is not in Wonderland anymore. A few pages later, we're shown the main Disney Villains commenting angrily about the cat deciding to give a hint to Sora, adding that Cheshire would've been a great ally, if only he didn't refuse the invitation to join them. So, canonically, Cheshire is considered great villain material, but he prefers to do his own thing.
As for the Queen of Hearts, later in the game, she's shown to actually make sure that Wonderland doesn't get consumed by darkness. And another game, called Disney Magical Castle, show some rather cute instances of her love for her husband, while still being her usual short-tempered self.
The best part was the Queen in the 358/2 Days manga, though! I will never get over her FALLING IN LOVE with Luxord after he fixes her castle for her!
@@XenomorphXIII Honestly, can you blame her? Luxord’s a hunk and he was 50ft tall at the time.
@@erenhearthandsherc1481 You make an excellent point. Luxord IS fantastic.
@@XenomorphXIII 358/2 manga is my favorite! I remember there's a moment of Captain Hook that somehow he cares about Peterpan, but I don't really remember the story during that part.
okay i needneedNEEEED a link to a playthrough of the disney magical castle game.
I'd like to point out that the Cheshire cat does get Alice home. It is her confrontation with the queen, provoked by the Cheshire Cat, which causes Alice to wake up. Which is what Alice wanted help with.
Cheshire Cat isn't a villain. He's the only character who actually helps Alice.
But he a Jerk.
@@jaggerguth4391 people in real life can be jerks sometimes.
He's a funny man and is awesome, he does help and adds a lot of comedy to the film.
Oh, no! Cheshire Cat isn't Disney Villain! He's the good guy from Disney's Alice in Wonderland!
Huh. I never thought of that.
The Queen of Hearts was also an inspiration for Miss Trunchbull from Matilda, as they both resort to extreme punishments when they don't get their own way and have a very short temper. Also it would be terrifying if the Queen of Hearts had her very own chokey, in which Alice would have to escape from.
Trunchbull always reminded me of the queen, kinda cool she's a reference.
And coincidentally the actress who played Miss Trunchbull in the movie, looks like a spitting image of a real life version of the Queen of Hearts.
Someone made this video th-cam.com/video/lTsyZjaVR4M/w-d-xo.html
It sounds like you're describing Ultimecia, too.
I don't think any of the wonderland characters are evil or good. They are just neutral and they don't have a moral compass due to their insanity, and even thou they sometimes commit very cuestionable actions they aren't evil, they are just mad.
Considering the rules of their world, Id say Alice is the villain, since shes the odd one out.
Somewhat like the Requiem Vampire Knight comic, where evil is rewarded in the afterlife and good is punished, here, logic is the villain, while insanity is the only good in their world
It can be argued that the Cheshire cat was actually trying to help Alice by sending her to the queen and provoking her, assuming he knew she would wake up if she was about to be killed.
Fun fact: The queen of hearts is typically played by a guy in the Disney parks because they’re tall
Who’s they? I’m assuming you’re referring to the Queen of hearts costumes
I used to check out the making of Alice in wonderland from the gold classic vhs tapes growing up and when costumed characters are introduced in one segment it’s very clearly a man dressed as the queen and shows up saying “Off with his head! Off with her head! Off with THEIR heads!”😂 and it’s a woman as the dormouse
I feel like most of the characters in Alice in Wonderland are obstacles for Alice and The Queen of Hearts is the true villain.
Fun fact: Alice’s original voice actor reprise her role in Kingdom Hearts in her 60s!
And returned in Birth By Sleep to voice Kairi's grandma.
Kathryn Boumant
@@lisanettles2731 Kathryn Beaumont is how it is written.
yeah she voiced alice and wendy for a very long time, you can still hear her in the alice and peter pan rides at the disney parks today too
@@memethyst Apparantly, the Winnie the Pooh ride in Disney World still has some audio recordings from Paul Winchell in it. So there is something nice about the parks keeping old voice actors for the characters.
I'm kind of surprised you didn't mention the Cheshire Cat taught Sora magic in the manga. It's just the best example of how he seems to be doing whatever amuses him.
Yeah, I don't blame anyone for not really getting into Once Upon a Time.
If anything, I think the Disney Company is trying to retroactively turn the remakes into discount versions of episodes from the Show, starting with Alice, Cinderella and Mulan.
The Queen of Hearts is also one of the seven Disney villains featured in the Japanese only game Twisted Wonderland.
I didn't know about that game.
I'm surprised you even included the Walrus and the Carpenter as villains, though I can see why in retrospect with both the film, the original book, and other adaptations. Plus on a little fun fact you've overlooked: While the Walrus doesn't appear in the Tim Burton film, he does make a cameo as a portrait in one of the Queen's rooms. Same with the Mock Turtle and Gryphon. Same goes with the deleted song "I'm Odd", the closest to a villain song along with "Beware the Jabberwock." Also funny how like Stromboli and later Kaa, the Cheshire Cat was another character that wasn't a villain in the book, turned into a villain.
the walrus and the carpenter is one of my favorite part of the movie along side the mad tea party, olso can we appreciate how they are a subversion of the usual fat and skinny dynamic, usually the skinny one is smart and the fat one is dumme but in this case the roles are reverse
This movie stressed me out as a kid (and, lol, let's be honest, even as an adult!!!) because everyone is SO MEAN to Alice! Top Shelf work (as always), and let me know if you or want resources for the Peter Pan video!
Yeah this movie always felt so oddly mean spirited
I used to like the movie a lot more as a kid but now I just feel really bad for Alice. That's why I have a soft spot for Adventures in Wonderland. I like the idea of Wonderland being an escapist world from the hum-drum real world.
That`s one area i prefer the 2010 version over the 1951 version.
The Queen was meanest to Alice in that regard.
Honestly, Ken Page playing two very, very different kinds of Disney baddies with extremely similar motives really amazes me.
Oh, btw, he's also the cannibalistic monster Oogie Boogie to those who are gonna ask in the comments after reading this.
In Once Upon a Time in Wonderland (a sadly underrated one-season show), the Cheshire Cat appeared. While he was apparently on good terms with Alice in the past, he is now much more sinister, with seemingly-murderous intent, and was voiced by Keith David.
It's a shame Once Upon A Time In Wonderland isn't on DVD, Blu Ray or Disney plus
@@maldon3659 Where do you live because it is on disney plus in the us.
@@andrewgoeing2701 I live in the UK, it's strange that it's on American Disney Plus and not UK Disney plus since it is a British story after all written by a British author
The queen accused child of "stealing her heart"? sounds to me like it's the queen who should be on trial
(yeh,I know what the actual context is, but out of context it just sounds so hilariously wrong)
It wonderland, Doofus.
That always sounded off to me, even as a kid...
Fun Fact: Sometimes, in Disneyland Paris parades, there is actually some cards in the parade!
I'm glad you pointed out the 2010s live-action AiW being more of a separate adaptation than a live-action remake. I see it grouped in as one of those a lot.
I think its more tim burton's interpretation of alice in wonderland
It started the whole trend by making a billion. Beauty and the Beast making another billion made later ones more closer to the animated ones.
@@sarasamaletdin4574 I prefer the 2010 Alice in Wonderland movie over the 2017 Beauty and the Beast movie.
@@bighand1530 Same with Christopher Robin as its a sepreate movie from the Winnie the Pooh films
@@nicholassims9837 Been a while since i have seen that movie as well
When I was a kid I always hated those flowers in Alice in wonderland. I hated the fact they jumped straight to the fact that Alice was a weed... Like wouldn't they have guessed that she wasn't a weed since Alice looks NOTHING LIKE A WEED. I'm pretty if you didn't want a weed in your garden, you'd be pretty familiarised by them. I especially hated that lavender, violet, whatever flower that purple one was with the glasses because she was quick to call Alice a weed. I always wanted to pluck them slowly out of the ground just because I hated them so much.
The purple flower is known as an Iris
At least the rose bud was nice to her.
All these years later, i still hate the flowers.
What can you expect? They're all mad, after all.
@@christopherwall2121 Even then, there is something with the flowers i find more off putting compared to a lot of the other Wonderland characters.
Queen of Hearts remains one of my favorite Disney villains solely because of her constant want to lose her temper. Compare that to many other Disney villains who are calm and collective during most of their screentime in their respective movies.
A fun and interesting fact about Kingdom Hearts and Alice in Wonderland, Alice’s Voice actor was actually Kathryn Beaumont (the original VA) she reprised her role as Alice and she also voiced Kairi’s grandmother as well. Seeing her revoice her role 51 years apart was something truly special ^-^ (Alice in wonderland-1951/Kingdom Hearts 2002)
Excellent video! I think "Alice" concept art is my favorite out of all the Disney productions; there's some great variety throughout the years.
I so do wish the Jabberwocky scene made it in it would have been so creepy and then hilarious 😂
In the original book, the Cheshire Cat is outright the only friend Alice makes and even if he's a weirdo who doesn't help much, whenever he shows up he's a comforting presence because it feels like there's someone genuinely on Alice's side. I wish the film kept that instead of making him the same flighty irrational jerk as the rest of the Wonderlanders
The Cheshire cat was going to have a song called, "I'm Odd" but it was cut so he could make a reference to jabberwocky by singing the first stanza of the poem
The “I’m Odd” song would be sung by Jim Cummings (in his Pooh voice), with a musical tune accompanying the never-before-heard lyrics.
One nice detail I like is that the Cheshire Cat sings a little bit of the Jabberwocky poem in the animated film; it’s a nice way to give a little callback to such a memorable character!
I just want to say that this channel is absolutely wonderful. So well researched, and delivered. This villain series specifically is always one of my most anticipated TH-cam series. Thanks for the great work! :)
When I was a kid, I thought the Carpenter was a seafood chef. At that I time I didn't see Alice In Wonderland from start to finish and much of the clips showing the Carpenter like in the DTV music videos made him seem like a seafood chef in the way he prepares the food for the Walrus and the Oysters, and his attire looked more like that a seafood chef/server than a carpenter. My uncle's a carpenter and I'd never seen him wear a white apron and what looks like a paper hat. Have you? The only thing he did that was even remotely carpentry was building that shack or whatever you wanna call it.
Well this is a 1950’s animated movie based on a 1860’s Victorian English children’s story so maybe that was how some of them looked in either of those time periods.
@@brandonlyon730 Yes, but as I said, I didn't see the movie from start to finish when I was a kid. I should also note, I never read the book, illustrations, and all, when I was a kid, so give me some credit here. When I saw Kevin Smith's 1999 film Dogma where Matt Damon's character talks about the Walrus and the Carpenter bit, that was when I realized I was hilariously wrong.
The Cheshire Cat is one of my favorite Disney characters.
Next time you do the Peter Pan one make sure you put in "a good pirate never steals another persons property" 'cause it's the funniest **** I've ever seen.
NEVER MIND ALL THAT! Get to the part where I lose my temper.
What’s especially crazy about the renewed interest Alice went through is that it happened in the 60s when LSD of all things became popular. Imagine watching Alice while high as a kite on acid
It could honestly be really easy to call everybody in Wonderland a villain.
The Cheshire Cat actually had a cut song from the 1951 movie called I'm Odd.
The Carpenter appeared on "Once Upon a Time in Wonderland" played by John Prowse. He appeared in only one episode.
Tell me I'm not the only one who thought the Queen of Hearts was the mother of Fred Flintstone? I mean he does look enough like her to be her son, although I never suspected the King of Hearts was Flintstone's dad. Hey, Stone is a bastard surname in George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, given to bastards born in the Kingdom of the Vale, maybe Bedrock followed that logic, or illogic if in Wonderland.
Wow, the fact that the bats warn Alice and she threatens them with Dina reminds me of how in the book Alice is thinking about Dina falling with her and thinking that there’s no rats but Dina might be able to catch a bat, and going into “do cats eat bats/do bats eat cats.”
Once you get all the way up to Raya, it would be interesting to point out that by the time the movie came out, many, many people saw Disney themselves as evil for stuff like the Uiyghr controversy.
Before, i didn't even think of Cheshire as a villain, but now I see it. He's literally the reason that Alice got tried.
Another time the cat seems to be subtly leading people to trouble for his amusement was in kh 1 ,after alice dissappears ,before the gang can leave wonderland the cat leads them on an wild goose chase to find the key hole by turning on the lights in the round room...all this does is summon the second boss (or 3rd/4th depending on the order you play surten worlds) trick Master, after said battle, the talking door was coincidently awakened by the noise and yawns reveling the key hole...the cat trys to role with it pretending this was his plan all along.
he does this again with roxas (in kh 359/2 days) , but at least this time around roxas was actually looking for the heartless, this one know as twin pranksters.
Man, Dan hall's version of the story was early dark disney stuff. I think it was softened after the war because people wanted to think of nicer things after a war decade. But seriously this movie, and Peter pan I notice had darker iterations that could have had different reactions to the public if released back then an again were delayed due to the war.
Also its interesting how disney made a blowhard in the book into an actual threat.
Oh, you think Once Upon a Time is confusing if you haven't watched it? I have watched it and believe me, it STILL is confusing.
I never liked "The Walrus & The Carpenter" part nor the two characters in general. I usually skip their part.
I do enjoy the Queen & King of Hearts, as well as the Cheshire Cat (even though he's more of a neutral character & trouble maker than a villain).
Tweedledee and Tweedledum were some of my favorites lol.
There’s also an Alice in Wonderland Maze in Shanghai Disneyland’s Fantasyland. It’s based on the live action Alice films instead of the 1953 animated one like Alice’s Curious Labyrinth in Disneyland Paris.
Here in Dorset, there's an Alice in Wonderland theme park (that's since been revamped to include a jungle themed area) and I still have fond memories of it.
Also in the KH Manga, Luxord actually charms the queen by making her a castle made of cards when it starts to rain.
Slight thing that you forgot to mention in the 358/2 Days manga: the Queen of Hearts ends up falling in love with Luxord after he charms her and uses his cards to build her a new house. It's honestly one of my favorite segments of the entire manga.
I like how the walrus and the carpenter are some of the few villains to never harm the main protagonist
I totally agree about the Cheshire Cat and I cannot wait for the Jungle Book episode
Another villain duo that can be compared to Foulfellow and Gideon are Gonzorgo and Rodrigo from Babes in Toyland. One does all the talking and the other is literally seen but not heard.
18:34 Having the voice of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum voice all of the characters in the story that those characters are telling Alice is such a great detail that I did not know until watching this video.
ITS FINALLY UP! 😄 I’ve been waiting for this video to drop all week! Alive in Wonderland is one of my favorites!
For the wonderland comic I like how they actually reference the other cards suits because I think it’s kind of weird that the queen of hearts has spades clubs and diamonds working for her also I’m guessing Peter Pan is going to take a lot longer mostly because this is the first Series do you have a connection to The movie and not just the reimagining and I’m guessing you’re gonna have to pick and choose which villains from Jake and the Neverland Pirates you want to use also I think there’s going to be a new Disney Junior show based on hours in wonderland
Anybody else completely forget there was a King of Hearts?
I don't think the Walrus and the Carpenter and the Chesire Cat count as villains in my point of view!
I've never actually looked into the stories or the movie other than a few, but it's definitely a fun warehouse. I think the The Jungle Book villains and their actual motives would be interesting, since some is just instinct, protection, or interest.
8:46: No one brings up why Alice shrunk, so I'll give the explanation: Alice ate both pieces of the Mushroom, one that grows and one that shrinks, not realizing that having to eat both of them would result in the shrinking effects take hold soon after.
28:51 jeez, that’s one hell of a skimpy outfit for Alice in the 70s. You can even see her uncovered knees.
We must inform the village elders.
You don’t see that in Disney parks anymore. Theses days her skirt is way past her knees and she seems to wear full length tights
A year late, but you forgot to mention The King of Hearts' appearance during Tokyo Disneyland's 30th Anniversary Parade "Happiness is Here" and the "Dreaming Up! Parade" for the park's 35th Anniversary.
Personally, the only characters in "Alice in Wonderland" that I consider villains are the Queen of Hearts and Mr. Walrus. The Carpenter seems too stupid to be a genuine villain, the King of Hearts is just there, and the Cheshire Cat is certainly a jerk but I wouldn't go so far as to call him a villain.
As for the other characters... I know the Mad Hatter and the March Hare were put on some Disney Villain merchandise, but I don't think they're villainous. Unhelpful, yes. Mad, definitely. But I don't think they're malicious. The White Rabbit and the Doorknob definitely don't count. Mr. Dodo and Bill the Lizard seem friendly enough, just not very helpful. The Caterpillar and the flowers are jerks, but I wouldn't dub them villains either. As for the Tweedles, I think they fall into the same "not evil, just mad and not very helpful" category as the Hatter and the March Hare.
Also, I'm really glad they didn't have Alice under the guillotine like in David Hall's version. And yeah, seeing Alice without a head is terrifying.
I disagree with you, the Cheshire Cat is a villains to me, much more than the Queen of Hearts. While the Queen is motly just like every other citizen of Wonderland absolutely nuts, the Cheshire seems to know what he is doing and is even said in some Kingdom Hearts adaptations that he almost worked with Maleficent and that's why he can control the Heartless
Concept art did show them trying to mutilate Alice.
I know we could’ve had our “first” Disney couple in WISH if it had gone with the drafts and plot, but we have the Queen of Hearts and her husband RIGHT HERE!!!
That's what I was thinking! They compliment each other quite well also. There's no way the king could run Wonderland all by himself since nobody but the queen seems to take him seriously, and if it weren't for the king being only one able to talk some sense into the queen and pardon everyone in secret, things would be much more chaotic. There are some older recordings that were scrapped from the film and the two of them weren't supposed to get along at all. The queen actually called the king an idiot at one point like in the book! 😂 He was originally going to be of normal height instead of dwarf as well.
I agree that the Tim Burton Alice in Wonderlands don't really count for the live action remakes. They aren't a remake of the animated film, they're just from the same source material.
Also, I really liked Once Upon a Time in Wonderland but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority on that one. *SHRUG*
Hopefully by Maleficent you’ll cover the books like A Twisted Tale, A Tale Of, and Kingdom Keepers. Hook appeared in all of them except A Tale Of.
There’s actually a twisted tale about Alice in wonderland. It’s called unbirthday. It would have been really useful if he referenced the twisted tale book, it really expands the wonderland lore as well as having a good real plot. Id really recommend it if you enjoy the movie and world in general.
For the Queen of Hearts' personality, I imagine that the animators just split the difference between funny and threatening.
I can’t say how much a love the Wonderland villains and Lewis Carol books in general ♦️♣️♠️♥️ #OFFWITHYOURHEAD
Did you do the voice for Alice and the Carpenter when showing that Looking-Glass comic? I really enjoyed their banter.
Alice In Wonderland (1951): The Queen Of Hearts | The Card Soldiers | The Cheshire Cat | The Walrus & The Carpenter
And also you forgot to include MOBILE GAMES in the Video game section since both the Queen and Cheshire Cat are welcomed characters in Disney Magic Kingdoms during the Alice in Wonderland event
I’m surprise that Twisted Wonderland wasn’t feature in this video as this Japanese mobile game is own by Disney. Of course, since this video got release on 2021, the game was only in Japanese. But now in 2022, it got released in English!
I just got a little niece named Alice. It's her mother's middle name, and her favourite Disney movie was this one. Plus she's probably going to be blonde because she already looks like her mother, who was golden blonde when she was young, and then dark blonde later. I'm planning to give her my pristine hardback copy of Wonderland.
Verna Felton was a Golden and SiIver Era Disney veteran, for sure. I actually never liked Flora. The way she brushed off Merryweather always irritated me.
And also you forgot to include cartoon shows on this entire video Like Alice's Wonderland Bakery which is a Disney Jr show that focus's on Alice's Great Great Granddaughter(Who shared the same same as her) who owns a bakery and in the show, both the Queen of Hearts and the King of Hearts arent married but related which the Queen of Hearts has a Latina heritage and is more nicer for the younger viewers and has a daughter named Rosa while the King himself is the father of the Queen of Hearts and the grandfather of Rosa who is also nice to Alice too.
For the Cheshire Cat he is more mellowed out and he does help the current Alice a times and more nicer than he did in the film but he does confuse her and any Wonderland citizens sometimes like his movie counterpart
I’m looking forward for more Disney villains 🦹♀️ starting with Peter Pan
you know... in all this disney villain retrospectives I dont think I have seen you bring up twisted wonderland, is a mobile game with lots of disney villains as redesigned by teh creator of black butler, and it is done by disney.You might not have heard about it sicne its kinda recent tought id inform you
I just finished making two stained glass cheshire cats. They were done using an antique Disney pattern done in partnership with a German glass pattern maker. One I did in more Disney like colours using an antique lavander irridescent glass and a darker purple water glass and the other I did in a tim burton style with a streaky teal glass and an irridescent grey.
I FREAKING KNEW IT! I KNEW THE KH MANGA GAVE THE CHESHIRE CAT A MORE ANTAGONISTIC ROLE!
Oh yes this movie!! The queen is to me....just plain nuts!!! I mean seriously what's with her and cutting off heads?! Anyway love your videos Collin!!!!💙💙
Once you get to sleeping beauty, will Education for Death be mentioned?
Just found this channel, and I love it! Working my way through this series on Disney villains has been very entertaining and fascinating. I'm very much looking forward to when you one day do a video about Professor Ratigan from The Great Mouse Detective. It's my favorite Disney movie, I don't think it gets enough attention, and I think Ratigan is a very interesting villain.
The Alice books were (and are) two of my favorites. Thank you for this amazing retrospect!
You know, Mike Matei's video on Carl Barks got be intrigued at a young age, but your videos talking about Yellowbeak and the Mickey Mouse Comic Strip and those weird crossovers that used to always happen really sealed the deal in making me finally check them out and start reading them. I gotta say, I like 'em.
I've only read two Captain Hook stories so far, but I can't help but notice that in them Hook's right hand man Smee is strangely different, like he was always on the bad guy's side but in the comics I've seen he seems just as evil as Hook and follows his orders without making any mistakes, is that how he always is in the comics?
I think that after you’re done with all the Disney villains retrospect you should do the Pixar ones too starting with Sid and his dog scud
2:12 The Queen of Hearts
11:51 The Cheshire Cat
15:35 The Walrus and The Carpenter
18:42 The Jabberwock
Another gear episode of this lookback. Looking forward to captain hook
Tick Tock the Crock is after Captain " Bonk"
Also the "Sir Goofy" scene with the Dwarfs in the background. Which comic is this from?
This was impressively comprehensive actually, really enjoyed it, appreciate your work for sure.
Speaking of the Walrus and the Carpenter, you ever read the Roger Langridge comic series "Snarked?" I don't know if it's easy to track down now, but I highly recommend it.
Who did the voices for the comic here?
I love all these retrospectives, thank you for all the effort you put in. Your channel is truly wonderful.
There is also a Alice in Wonderland ride in Blackpool pleasure beach in the UK, I believe it is the oldest ride in the park and has always been on of my favourites.
There is a particularly cool part where it seems like you are upside down and also you transport for the ride is a Cheshire cat! Xx
Cheshire Cat my beloved!
I would say that, from the point of view of normal people, almost everyone in Wonderland is an antagonist, being amoral sociopaths. Only a handful of characters make an effort to help Alice get home, and they are sabotaged by another character shortly after. Of course, the citizens of Wonderland aren't mean, exactly; they simply don't care about anything beyond their nonsensical games. As terrifying as the Queen of Hearts is, the Mad Hatter and the March Hare also stand out for me as obnoxious antagonists. They NEVER let Alice drink any tea, then disingenuously ask her why she doesn't "take more" (and insist that she CAN take more, because she "can't very well take less").
As nasty a place as Wonderland would be in real life, though ALICE IN WONDERLAND is an underrated gem among Disney's animated films, and one of my favorites. To me it deserves to be high up enough to be on the level of PINOCCHIO and PETER PAN.
My favorite part of the Disney animated version (and part of this is because I saw it on Disney Channel back when it was traditionally aired on Easter on Disney Channel) is how all the visuals get momentarily desaturated the moment that the "mad" watch gets smashed.
To me, the Cheshire Cat seemed the only of the alleged villains, that was actually more mad than bad. What he did seemed typical cat to me, just having his own agenda, and being well... Catty (aloof, self interest minded) living with Alice and Dinah in the real world would have cured him, I think. He'd have a loving friend in both the girl and her pet cat. Just putting that out there ..
Don't think of Alice in Wonderland characters as "evil". Think of them as an entire cast if Chaotic Neutral "that guys" that ruin TTRPG games with really stupid decisions. Whether it be bullying other players, playing nasty pranks on the unstable DMPC because it's funny and because the DMPC keeps TPKing the party, pestering Father Time himself until the DM freezes time for them as a punishment, or eating children NPCs just because they can.
Although the Queen of Hearts has a fiery temper, she's not the deadliest card in the deck! That honor goes to the Ace of Spades, because that's the card of death, historically speaking!
If I remember correctly....
The Walrus and the Carpenter were supposedly analogous to a Incident in London.
Where a Dock yard was constructed by some worker/laborers/carpenter's, on the promise of "Pearls" or oysters from the profits of said dock yard...
By some upper crust wealthy type, walrus proxy.
Only to it eventually come out that the Walruses have Eaten up the whole profit.
Or something like that.