Them howas are hard to beat. One of the last hunting rifles that is built the old school way. With a real recoil lugs and square flat bottom actions . None of that round barstock cost cutting bs design. .
The argument he used to eliminate the 7mm-08 is exactly why I choose it. With the higher BC bullet it has a flatter trajectory than the 6.5 Creedmoor. A 140 grain bullet performs near the top compared to the others, yet a 150 does even better in terms of trajectory, retained velocity and retained energy down range. If you want to go up to a 162 grain bullet, that is still well within the optimal performance envelope for the cartridge. 175 grains is GTG in a .308 but going heavier you’re starting to push that envelop and your rifle’s twist rate may come into play. And all other things being equal, I want a heavier bullet.
Thanks Steve! I need to get back to making them - I had a few weeks fishing in Canada that I’m trying to edit and get posted, but need to stay on the cartridge overviews!
All of those mentioned are perfect for whitetail inside 300 yards! When you head past 300.. a magnum would be a better choice.. my opinion That being said.. most game is harvested inside 200 yards.. with the majority inside 75 yards.. at least in the north east! There are the field shots.. and ridge shots.. but most hunting is in the woods here. My personal favorite is the 7mm-08.. but I've used the 358 Winchester as well! My 358 Winchester is my dedicated black bear rifle.. and I rotate rifles hunting whitetail. I've used the 303 British.. the 30-06; Springfield.. the 7mm-08.. the 350 Remington Mag.. the 350 legend and the 358 Winchester.. and the results were very similar 😊 Great video
Of all the short actions and long actions I have, hands down my all time fav is the 300 WSM. About as much power as you can get in a working man's short action, is highly efficient when reloading, and changes impact very little between 130's up to 180's. And for some reason it is very lethal.
I really like your approach. Clear criteria, reasonable constraints, and using sectional density to choose “comparable” bullets. One factor you don’t mention at all though is barrel length. Most data for 6.5 CM and 7mm-08 uses a 24” barrel, while .308 typically shows a 22” barrel. It’s just an impression and I want facts, but it seems like .308 continues to perform well down to an 18” barrel. Anecdotally, Frank Bartlein prefers a 20” barrel for .308. However, 6.5 Creedmoor appears to really need that full 24” barrel. 7mm-08 appears to be in the middle (again) here. This doesn’t matter on the bench or in wide open country, but where I live there a lot of scenarios where a barrel 4” shorter would be much better just for moving around quietly.
Really good point on barrel length - I didn’t want to get too deep into the rifle optimization side of things in this video, BUT I am planning to take the 6.5 creedmoor from this video and the 280AI from the long action cartridge video I did and make a true head to head “best mountain rifle” video.
338 fed with 200 grain sst is pretty spectacular on whitetail. .250 SD /.455 BC, large frontal area, larger weight/ mass. very interesting if not shooting past 300 yards
Totally - the big frontal area is really underrated when longer range shots aren’t needed. I think that’s part of what makes some of the straight wall cartridges so potent for whitetail in the states that have that restriction.
When we get to that final push between 6.5cm, 7-08, or 308 with the bullet weights listed, I haven’t noticed a substantial difference. It’s a good piece of data I will include going forward though! It will really stand out when we look at the extremes.
🕵♂ The 277 Sig Fury Factory Ammunition Meets Your "Short Action Requirements" and Can Push a 150 grain Nosler Accubond Bullet to 3,120 ft/s From a 24" Barrel, as Listed on the Ammunition Box I Have See on the Shelf Here! 🔥 Now, Finding the Rifle May Be a Bit Harder? 🤷♂
The lack of mainstream availability is what stopped me. And when it is doing something so radically different, it makes it hard to compare without doing a talk specifically about that cartridge.
You missed a Great one 6mm Rem. Load Hornady 103gr ELD-X .512 BC and .258 SD Reloaded 3200 FPS this will get you out to 600 yards with over 1000ft lbs energy.
🕵♂ It Appears That You Have Completely Skipped The Short/Fat Cartridges in Your "Short Action" and "Long Action" (Should Be "Standard Action", As the "Long Action" is For Big Magnum Cartridges Like the 416 Remington Magnum ) Videos - Like the 277 Sig Fury, 270 wsm, 6.8 Western, etc...? Why? 🤔
That’s fair - I’ve always used the terms standard, long, and magnum length for actions. But subbing long for standard makes sense. Just trying to limit the number of rifles talked about by focusing in on families of cartridges versus the whole lot of them - thanks for watching!
Ooooo, I like that! Especially if you can push your COAL to closer to 3” - could really have a sweet cartridge if a person wanted to go with a bigger bullet!
“How heavy is that bullet relative to its diameter?” Sectional density FTFY This is a good example where using “caliber” correctly instead of “cartridge” makes a difference. /OCD off/ 🤪
Great discussion, and the eye candy that is the host doesn’t hurt either!
Nice video. Just ordered a Howa 1500 barreled action in 6.5 Creedmoor earlier today for a build.
Awesome! What are you planning to use for a stock and optics?
I'm using a Southern Cross Small Arms chassis. Not set on an optic yet. It's a compact 16 inch build to go with my suppressor.
That sounds like a sweet build!
Them howas are hard to beat. One of the last hunting rifles that is built the old school way. With a real recoil lugs and square flat bottom actions . None of that round barstock cost cutting bs design. .
I'll stop at the 7-08 thank you.
The argument he used to eliminate the 7mm-08 is exactly why I choose it. With the higher BC bullet it has a flatter trajectory than the 6.5 Creedmoor. A 140 grain bullet performs near the top compared to the others, yet a 150 does even better in terms of trajectory, retained velocity and retained energy down range. If you want to go up to a 162 grain bullet, that is still well within the optimal performance envelope for the cartridge. 175 grains is GTG in a .308 but going heavier you’re starting to push that envelop and your rifle’s twist rate may come into play. And all other things being equal, I want a heavier bullet.
Your evaluation approach and criteria are spot on. Especially picking bullet designs with very close sectional densities.
Well done!
Thanks for the compliments!
I'm loving this kind of videos
Thanks Steve! I need to get back to making them - I had a few weeks fishing in Canada that I’m trying to edit and get posted, but need to stay on the cartridge overviews!
All of those mentioned are perfect for whitetail inside 300 yards!
When you head past 300.. a magnum would be a better choice.. my opinion
That being said.. most game is harvested inside 200 yards.. with the majority inside 75 yards.. at least in the north east!
There are the field shots.. and ridge shots.. but most hunting is in the woods here.
My personal favorite is the 7mm-08.. but I've used the 358 Winchester as well!
My 358 Winchester is my dedicated black bear rifle.. and I rotate rifles hunting whitetail.
I've used the 303 British.. the 30-06; Springfield.. the 7mm-08.. the 350 Remington Mag.. the 350 legend and the 358 Winchester.. and the results were very similar 😊
Great video
Of all the short actions and long actions I have, hands down my all time fav is the 300 WSM. About as much power as you can get in a working man's short action, is highly efficient when reloading, and changes impact very little between 130's up to 180's. And for some reason it is very lethal.
130s in a 300 WSM have to be blazing!
6.5 PRC
338 federal , with 7mm 08 as an honorable mention. 338 because it is more effective on heavier game!
I really like your approach. Clear criteria, reasonable constraints, and using sectional density to choose “comparable” bullets.
One factor you don’t mention at all though is barrel length. Most data for 6.5 CM and 7mm-08 uses a 24” barrel, while .308 typically shows a 22” barrel. It’s just an impression and I want facts, but it seems like .308 continues to perform well down to an 18” barrel. Anecdotally, Frank Bartlein prefers a 20” barrel for .308. However, 6.5 Creedmoor appears to really need that full 24” barrel. 7mm-08 appears to be in the middle (again) here. This doesn’t matter on the bench or in wide open country, but where I live there a lot of scenarios where a barrel 4” shorter would be much better just for moving around quietly.
Really good point on barrel length - I didn’t want to get too deep into the rifle optimization side of things in this video, BUT I am planning to take the 6.5 creedmoor from this video and the 280AI from the long action cartridge video I did and make a true head to head “best mountain rifle” video.
@@stienfamilyoutdoors what barrel length would you recommend for a 280 Ackley Improved hunting rifle?
308 shines w a 150grain projectile. Really pulls away forr hunting situations in the timber. These 150s going 2980 ish fps pancake whitetail
Totally - I helped a buddy develop some 130 grain TTSX loads for his 308 win. Makes for an awesome load for a deer rifle!
@@stienfamilyoutdoorshells yea. Ya can push them 130s up into 300win mag velocity relm
338 fed with 200 grain sst is pretty spectacular on whitetail. .250 SD /.455 BC, large frontal area, larger weight/ mass. very interesting if not shooting past 300 yards
Totally - the big frontal area is really underrated when longer range shots aren’t needed. I think that’s part of what makes some of the straight wall cartridges so potent for whitetail in the states that have that restriction.
Recoil? Are they all similar? 6lb gun is lite.
When we get to that final push between 6.5cm, 7-08, or 308 with the bullet weights listed, I haven’t noticed a substantial difference. It’s a good piece of data I will include going forward though! It will really stand out when we look at the extremes.
🕵♂ The 277 Sig Fury Factory Ammunition Meets Your "Short Action Requirements" and Can Push a 150 grain Nosler Accubond Bullet to 3,120 ft/s From a 24" Barrel, as Listed on the Ammunition Box I Have See on the Shelf Here! 🔥 Now, Finding the Rifle May Be a Bit Harder? 🤷♂
The lack of mainstream availability is what stopped me. And when it is doing something so radically different, it makes it hard to compare without doing a talk specifically about that cartridge.
You missed a Great one 6mm Rem. Load Hornady 103gr ELD-X .512 BC and .258 SD
Reloaded 3200 FPS this will get you out to 600 yards with over 1000ft lbs energy.
Good call - and a solid round to miss!
🕵♂ It Appears That You Have Completely Skipped The Short/Fat Cartridges in Your "Short Action" and "Long Action" (Should Be "Standard Action", As the "Long Action" is For Big Magnum Cartridges Like the 416 Remington Magnum ) Videos - Like the 277 Sig Fury, 270 wsm, 6.8 Western, etc...? Why? 🤔
That’s fair - I’ve always used the terms standard, long, and magnum length for actions. But subbing long for standard makes sense.
Just trying to limit the number of rifles talked about by focusing in on families of cartridges versus the whole lot of them - thanks for watching!
260 AI if you are a Reloader.
Ooooo, I like that! Especially if you can push your COAL to closer to 3” - could really have a sweet cartridge if a person wanted to go with a bigger bullet!
Sheep will always follow.
Having raised sheep, I can verify this is usually true.
“How heavy is that bullet relative to its diameter?” Sectional density
FTFY
This is a good example where using “caliber” correctly instead of “cartridge” makes a difference.
/OCD off/ 🤪
Thank you! I always try to use the correct words because it absolutely makes a difference - missed this one!