ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- Constructive criticism towards Jontohil2's rework ideas for the kunai and deadringer
#tf2 #spy #kunai
Includes clips from Jontohil2's videos and one of Cyberwizard's videos, check their channels out!
Music in order:
-The Amazing Digital Circus (Main theme) || Lofi version by @deathzacklofi
• The Amazing Digital Ci...
-Spy groove by Kevin Macleod
-Break the Targets! by Nintendo
-Robots by Valve Studio Orchestra
#Fixtf2, the petition is at save.tf
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:50 The Deadringer rework's problems
3:00 The Kunai rework's problems
4:23 My proposed rebalances
6:35 Mann versus Machine
8:28 Fixtf2 - เกม
My word is not gospel, and this is how you respond to it.
Now behold, the blessing of the community post:
Wow I didn't expect this lmao
Thanks for listening to what I had to say, means a lot considering the time I put into this
L has found his Kira, what move will he make next?
(I know this isnt a rivalry thing, but still!)
@@IronVigilante451 lmfao
I'm hoping to hear how spy can be reworked in mvm. Like making the y.e.r prevent aggro on successful kills like engine's turrets.
@@ryanbrook8384 I'll probably make a video on that at some point, weezy had the idea of a money magnet similar to scout but without money overheal and I partially agree with that idea
I hear the digital circus leitmotif...
GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD
lmfao
one of my friends has played the tadc theme so much that by simply playing the first note i instantly know what he's doing. HE DOESN'T EVEN NEED AN INSTRUMENT IF HE HAS A DESK HE'LL DRUM IT OUT AND I CAN RECOGNISE IT.
Hope you get the help you need ❤
This is its new home(your brain)
As someone who loves Spy’s disguising, I honestly love the idea of the Kunai abandoning it
The playstyle it proposes sounds incredibly fun and fitting, while not stepping on the toes of other knives. Very much appreciate you being able to maintain its flashy chain-trickstab infamy
Great video m8 ❤
Thank you!
honestly i really like it when people dont just complain about a ytbers idea and instead make their own idea, u made me click the funny button
:) Thank you!
I would suggest to tone down the music a little. I can't make out your voice as the music drowns it out
Hey thanks for the criticism
I got a new mic recently and im trying to figure the audio mixing out a bit, next videos shouldnt be quite as bad in that regard
I think it was fine, but I relate to this sentiment. I've experienced several vids in the past with over-bombastic background music targetted for those who need way too much stimulation.
Oh my god. A respectful, well thought out response video. Genuinely a rarity on this platform. My only criticism is audio balancing so the background music is quieter than your voice.
Woopsies, just saw the fixed audio upload, time to watch that now lmao
lol thank youu
just got here from the new kunai video
welcome!
the no disguises is honestly genius, turning his matchups on their head and acting as a sorta reverse eternal reward.
snowball weapons are honestly really hard to balance from only really needing one kill to start the momentum to becoming the best gun. like the fronteir justice garanteed crits is only balanced by needing to lose your main damage and having half a clip and it's arguably still engineers best shotty.
do still ultimately agree with the fish on a stick video which describes the captain facetank situation where the instant health with a high overheal leads to crossing major damage thresholds which makes the spys margin for error a tad too wide.
but i'll admit aside removing overheal and just keeping it a max health restore dunno how i would balance it without destroying its identity, maybe reverting it to 195 so the buffed spy can be 2 piped still would reduce the leniency given by the reduced overheal decay while allowing him to maintain the overhealing ability. does seem counter intuitive to the survivability but the ability to reset to max health mid chain stab still exists. good for mvm, busted in casual.
Yeah fish's kunai video was overall pretty good
It would take some testing to see if my rework is actually balanced but I think it would be, especially if jon's deadringer rework was implemented in the same testing
@@L_5050 honestly does look like a pretty fun rework ngl, might be something I have to play around with myself
I honestly really like these changes and would definitely use it alot more, also the no disguising downside is a really good idea making it almost an alternative version of the YER
Kunai + Dead Ringer = Troll Spy
For some reason there've been a ton of rework proposition videos in the community the last to months and this is the first one i've seen that feels like a genuinely large amount of thought went into the rebalance, it feels polished and professional and I hope we see something like this actually added some day!
I really appreciate your focus on the maintaining of a playstyle within the community. I'm not a spy main, and I hate playing against kunai spies, but I'm not okay with nerfing someone's fun out of the game((unless it's vax medic)), so I think it's super respectable how you focused on allowing kunai spies to still play similarly to how they did before!
Thank you!
3:07 Fair enough. But if that's indeed the design goal (and not just your opinion), I'd remove the kunai from the game altogether. IMO, you're not supposed to be stabbed by the sneaky class *while you're looking at him and he's not disguised*. Meleed, like a sniper, is ofc fine.
Trickstabbing kunai spies show off their platforming skills (think Super Meat Boy or Celeste) and are fine in MvM. But they wreak havoc in casual (topscoring, shutting down the other team and thus killing servers), against fellow human players who want to have a good time.
If the kunai is kept, just disallow the DR loadout combo, since I don't think it's possible to balance it. Once the combo is out of the equation, balancing each (=separately) becomes much easier.
I think the problem with trickstabbing kunai spies isnt that theres no counterplay, because there is, but the counterplay is restrictive and forces you to be a team player and fill an empty role your team doesnt have when the appeal of casual is that you can do whatever you want without being a hindrance to your team
For example, the scorch shot has counterplay, but its extremely restrictive. Switching to the manmelter completely and utterly shuts the scorch shot down and gives you a bucketload of crits, but a weapon shouldnt force you to switch to a very niche weapon on a class you might not have experience on just to be able to have fun in the game, and I think the kunai suffers from a similar issue in casual
You can shut down kunai spies just by stickytrapping the flank routes and doing nothing but keeping an eye on the flank, ive killed many a kunai spy like that, but that isnt fun for most people is it?
I'm planning on making a youtube video series where I explain the counterplay each good weapon in the game has, since thats not something thats been done before, and I'll definitely talk more about kunai counterplay there
What intrigues me about your rebalance is that while it encourages the fast-paced trickstabbing playstyle of Kunai spies, it doesn't _kill_ the sneaky playstyle Jonto is a big supporter of.
The concept of a spy/secret agent with any slight variations boils down to evading detection, & deception. The latter of which was the core theme of Among Us, but only half of the Spy's playbook. And while Jonto makes it clear that disguises are not completely invalidated by experienced players, it is far less effective than in the controlled enviorment of Among Us, whereas in TF2 there are dozens more variables at play. This increased difficulty of course very well is what draws new players to Spy, using high skill and big-brain moves to pull off massive disruption within the enemy team, which can make you feel like a god. *But I digress.* What I'm trying to say is this rebalance encourages the other style of undercover agents, which is both refreshing & exciting. Some may prefer deception & mind-games, while others might enjoy the challenge of getting past & behind the enemy line unassisted, and subsequently transitioning to the thrilling rush gameplay of trickstabbing possibly multiple players, depending on skill as well as your situation, which feels like an action-movie type sequence; going from moving through the shadows into the sudden action of a fight-scene. This makes the Kunai playstyle not just one thing, and infact helps greatly pronounce both sides of the Spy coin, which were already there, but overshadowed by how forgiving the overpowered aspects of the current Deadringer + Kunai playstyle, which encourages overly wreckless players.
Best of all, this is a well-thought out _rebalance,_ with a thoughtful process. Most times, I hear the word "rebalanced" thrown around in any situation, and roll my eyes at the fancy-pants McGee who really just means *nerf it into the ground!1!* I mean, the term "Nerf" itself was coined from the toy brand and _specifically_ meant to severely debuff something to begin with. Many rebalance discussions in gaming communities are motivated by fustration, and results in the harsh over-adjustments that are often made with any action taken by the devs in response. The subsequent re-adjustments wouldn't be necessary if more thought & calmness went into the reworking, rather than to spite and smite a part of the playerbase the other players really don't like.
Of course, that is better than nerfs made by *the devs & the devs alone,* that are way overtuned and left that way, with an "F you" to the playerbase and the lack of caring about some people even leaving thanks to some rich suits to outweigh that loss, and it is killing many big games today.
*With all that being said, thanks for coming to my Ted-talk.*
Thank you! I appreciate that you gave my idea so much nuance, would definitely attend ted talk again
@@L_5050 *I appreciate your fast response, as well as just actually reading my pretty lengthly comment.* I do not typically expect this with the attention spans of average internet users today.
@@HANKSANDY69420 np, I love this game so I'll probably read any good faith discussion of it lol
@@L_5050 Indeed. We need more good-faith discussions in balancing within game communities.
I swear... I already thought of "no Disguis" myself... But it is actually such a REALY NEEDED ABILITY for the Spy... So i am not so sure of it... NEEDS to be tested MATHEMATICALLY.
I've tested it against bots who usually melt you when you're undisguised and its still pretty fun
What do you think about keeping the kuni the way Jonthil proposed, but instead of completely disabeling the knife after a stab it only turns off the healing effect?
That’s a good idea
its definitely better than his original suggestion, and would fix the issues it has in casual, but it wouldn't fix it being worse at high levels of play such as uncletopia or competitive, and I'd prefer weapons to be balanced for all levels of play
@@L_5050 fair. I don't play enough tf2 to understand how to balance weapons there properly
WARNING OPINION AHEAD: Honestly, I think the biggest problem with the Kunai when in casual people just trickstab everyone while tanking a lot of damage. There is nothing about spys design that communicates that he should be able to tank 600hp in a fight. It's insulting to see. Big earner and YER (debatable) helping with trickstabs are fine, because as long as you can track the spy, you can kill him. I do not agree with the sentiment that this playstyle being viable is healthy for the game. Combined with the poor hitreg and lag, it just feels unfair and is unfun to play against IMO.
One way I would buff the trickstabbing playstyle is I would buff the Big Earner to have a faster attackspeed - helping both trickstabs and chainstabs.
I do like the idea of there being cooldown for the healing for Kunai. There should still be some other persistent downside tho, but idk what it should be.
The big earner is fine as is honestly, the kunai just needs to be reworked so its not worthless in competitive and isnt broken in casual
I had to look up what increase blink time meant. I thought you were preposing spys screen goes black for half a second every stab
LMAO THAT'D BE SO BAD
a bit funny though
Look not to be that guy jonto did say that people are tired of trickstab and they want to see spy do more varied things and want trickstab to have some risk rather than a common ocurrence.
Edit:Side note your rework is interesting it makes spy more of a ninja, you instead have to rely on positioning and patience
@@chris2857j I know, but i dont think its really relevant to the video
I don't think the trickstab playstyle is healthy for spy's class design but there's no point mentioning that, I don't think that its enough of a reason to change the entire identity of a weapon just because people dislike the playstyle
Lonquodor hates the roamer soldier playstyle, but if he were to say that the gunboats should be changed completely just because he dislikes the playstyle he would be clowned on and rightfully so
asking for a playstyle to be completely changed because you dislike it isn't fair
that being said I appreciate your comment, I like having these kinds of discussions with people
Love your proposed Kunai rework!
Thank you!
A bit of editing advice:
The most important part of the audio is your voice. Background music is nice but it should be at 20-33% of the volume maximum (this isn't a hard and fast rule). The way human hearing works is that if you have too many inputs at reasonably similar levels, it becomes harder to differentiate between them, creating a sort of auditory noise effect. Think of it like finding waldo lite where you know what you're looking for and should be concentrating on but there's too many other inputs to do it quickly and accurately without expending a lot of conscious effort.
I appreciate it!
hey, a bit of a mixing tip: you should probably bump up your voice volume a bit while keeping the background music a bit lower
TF2bers keep the volume of background music very low for a reason, after a threshold, it can "distract" the viewer
btw the text at 2:14 is hard to read, the color should contrast well with the background (a font border really helps with that!) and the font should be a different one that is "equally thick" everywhere if it makes sense
Ok thanks!
I think something must be added to deal with sentries. Maybe they can take a few extra seconds to target you when decloaking ?
if you circlestrafe a sentry while decloaking you can get a sapper on it, so I don't think it needs much
@@L_5050 It was more if you wanted to stab someone but a sentry is nearby. Especially mini sentries.
@@Markty07 that's fair, but that's something spy is already fairly weak in, the YER is a better knife for stabbing near sentries imo
@@L_5050 others knifes allow disguises for at least 1 kill. This rework will die while decloaking to a sentry
lovely video 10/10 would like again
Thanks!
Now the Kunai would only need a new description cuz it says "Starts with low health, Stab someone with this knife, steal all of their health"
true yeah
Hello, this might be just me buy I have bad hearing. If you made your voiceover about 10% louder it would pop a bit more from the background music. Otherwise excellent video.
thanks, there is a version of this video on my channel that has better audio, so check that out if you want
Useless kunai fact: it actually doesnt give you a plaim 210 overheal but overheal 3x your max health, I once found a glitch on a community server and I was a 150 hp kinai spy wirh a max overheal of 450. That was so much fun
yeah lmao, when I was making my kunai rework plugin I had to find a way to specifically cap the overheal at 210 because giving the spy his health back made it overheal to like 375 which was overpowered
I don’t even play spy I just like watching stuff
valid
Now this is a video I can agree with!
glad to hear!
Something I don't think you realize that you also do with the kunai is now you made it a good gun spy weapon I'm assuming butter knives also give you health but you don't get the over heal it has to be a backstab to get the over heal it is the gun spy weapon so this now supports to play styles the chain stabs or the guy that says f*** it and use his gun
I dont mind that honestly, gives the spycicle some competition as "the go-to" gunspy knife
It would probably still be worse than the spycicle just because the spycicle isnt weak to sentry guns but thats something that'd need to be tested
@@L_5050 ya
@@L_5050 the reason why I think it would be a good guns by weapon is because most gun spies shoot the century to death which means you shoot the century out of its range but I see your point I'm not trying to argue with you but this person who loves gun spy I switch from guns by to normal spy all the time it confuses them a lot
Very good job sir
Thanks!
I still think having a maximum of 210 health is way too much for spy
Eh it has counterplay on most classes
the only classes who dont have counterplay against spy with 210 health are medic (who isnt a combat class anyways), and demoman/sniper at close range (where both are weakest)
its mostly the fact that a vanilla kunai user with 210 health suddenly has surpassed the only downside the knife has which forces people to focus on just one or two methods of counterplay rather than counterplay they'd find enjoyable, and the fact that it feeds off of new players too much
*Well Spy has way too little health, too*
this change doesnt do anything to nerf the most anyoing aspect of the kunai, the snowballing off weak players
I don't think you understood the ramifications of the changes then
Its not about making strong players stronger versus the kunai, its about making weak players stronger versus the kunai
The fact that spy has no disguise means that players cant fall for bad acting anymore, even the newest of players will see opposite color and shoot, and the longer blink time makes it harder for spies to get away if they position themselves poorly
I'm going to copy paste what I said to another commenter in regards to counterplay versus the kunai
The counterplay against a kunai spy in tf2 right now is to
1: Stay out of Melee range
2: Use knockback to deny the spy stabs
3: Watch the flank so that the spy doesn't have a chance to stab anyone in your team
4: Focus fire
As long as your roamer does their job and watches the flank and your team has general awareness they can counter the kunai spy with no disguise, and if he tries to cloak and run away the longer blink time makes it harder to escape
In my honest opinion if a spy can stomp with this version of the kunai he can stomp with any other knife except the spycicle
Regardless I appreciate your comment
@@L_5050 i agree your rendition is interesting as it buffs the kunai while giving it a unique weakness
but it will remain an anoying weapon that feeds off bad players much like the eyelander. Eg a pubstomper. For better teams it actually seems really good and offers a unique playstyle.
One criticism, turn up your mic or turn down the background music. It's hard to understand you.
May I recommend lowering the volume of the music in your next video lol
Yeah I made a version of this video with better audio because it kind of sucks rn
Nice
tyy
@@L_5050 Btw can you make some other spy videos on other weapons?
@@ThatGuy-mg2hc for sure
@@L_5050 Thx
The Kunai was never specifically a Trickstab knife nor was that the intention. It simply happened to work out with the playstyle. And while the rework you suggested seems fine, it completely ignores what makes people hate it in the first place. Leeching off bad players. Not being able to disguise or the longer cloak duration don't matter when the weapon is at it's most infuriating. When you just run behind the enemy team while under fire but you just stab your way through oblivious players, invalidating their attempt to kill you.
Not to mention it is a unreasonable demand to make that if someone really wants to stop you they can take engineer. But setting up with Engineer takes time and you can only control a limited area.
While Jontho praised this video I have to strongly disagree with the rebalance as it failed to address the main problem. I think ultimately Jontho was on a much better track, limiting the usage of the knife and it's ability to heal you. The only thing I would add onto it would be that Spy could carry multiple Kunai (up to 3) and those get used up for a backstab. While this will not resolve the issue entirely as spy can steal leech off enough health with 3 knifes to not die to concentrated from a singular player, it will add a cooldown to these scenarios where you desperately try to stop a spy from killing your entire just because they can't turn around.
This would also keep the knife viable in MVM as it is easy to give the Kunai a upgrade that allows you stock up on more knives and possibly even add bonus damage on giants for each knife that is stuck in one.
One Key issue however that HAS to go is the ability to constantly heal yourself. That is was caused the debate around the Kunai in the first place and no defense of the playstyle will ever make it okay to invalidate all the damage another person does to you by leeching of someone else beyond their control.
Spy is balanced around the fact that you have to put yourself out into necking breathing distance of the enemy team to get value out of him, similar to pyro (excluding broken unlocks like diamondback and scorch shot)
The counterplay against a kunai spy in tf2 right now is to
1: Stay out of Melee range
2: Use knockback to deny the spy stabs
3: Watch the flank so that the spy doesn't have a chance to stab anyone in your team
4: Focus fire
New players might fall for the worst disguise of all time, they wont fall for a spy with no disguise at all
As long as your roamer does their job and watches the flank and your team has general awareness they can counter the kunai spy with no disguise, and if he tries to cloak and run away the longer blink time makes it harder to escape
In my honest opinion if a spy can stomp with this version of the kunai he can stomp with any other knife except the spycicle
I disagree with forcing spy to use an upgrade for the kunai to stay viable in mvm, he already has one of the most expensive upgrade paths other than demoman
I see an engineer on basically every game I join, using usually the jag or gunslinger
you shouldn't *need* to change class to counter an unlock, but it has an added bonus of giving an area of protection around sentries, giving kunai spies a counter they never had before shouldn't be something to complain about
@@L_5050 Yet your suggested rebalance still allows spy to unclock behind the enemy team, stab a oblivious player and then keep chainstabbing other oblivious players while being under focus fire of a roamer. That is the big Main complaint about the weapon.
As long as you got exposed backs you can undo all the progress of another player that is trying to kill you. You don't even have to get away. You don't even have to trickstab.
You have failed to address this main problem. The Problem of watching your entire team die to a single spy while you shot rocket after rocket at him and he doesn't die because your teammates don't turn around.
Not being able to disguise or having a longer blink time are separate downsides that do next to nothing to combat this.
Let's take another example okay. Bare with me for a moment. Let's take the engi's wrangler a generally agreed upon broken weapon. The problem with the Wrangler is it's shield that gives a Level 3 sentry a effective healthpool of 654. That is simply too much health to deal with and allows the sentry to outlast the enemy until they have to reload. Now here is where YOUR supposed downsides would come in. Instead of taking the Wranglers shield away which is the agreed upon problem, the engi can now no longer use his teleporter.
The reason behind this is that now when you kill the engi he is much longer away from his buildings which prevents him from repairing them. But the same issue still remains. The absurd amount of health that prevents you from killing the sentry.
And this is the same problem you face with the Kunai Spy. The problem is the insane amount of self-sustain he gets from your bad teammates. None of your downsides prevent it from doing the same thing it is hated for now.
As I said. The ability keep healing yourself HAS to go. Giving unrelated downsides does not suddenly make it's upsides okay.
You can list any amount of playstyles and counters to spy but with the current and proposed version of the Kunai I will be unable to do anything to save my team unless I get a random crit and kill the spy outright before he can refill his health on my next teammate.
I hope I made my point clear.
@@rayzuke1232
if you're shooting rocket after rocket and you can't kill a kunai spy then you aren't doing it right
use your rockets for knockback to deny the spy stabs, knock him into the air and shoot him with either a shotgun or another rocket if you're good at airshots, and hes just dead
I get that you dislike the kunai but that was an awful example, soldier is the second best class for killing kunai spies before pyro
you ignored the fact that a spy not having a disguise makes it harder for spies to fool oblivious players, and decloaking right behind oblivious players gives experienced players a couple seconds to gun down the spy before he fully decloaks, versus disguises which can blend in in the heat of battle and dont give spy a 2 second cooldown before he can stab someone
and no, the wrangler and kunai do not have the same balance problems, thats a false equivalency
the wrangler doesn't have a significant downside for the massive upsides it has, the kunai has a significant downside but its negated after one kill
these are completely different issues and should not be compared with each other
my source for the kunai being intended to be a trickstab knife is Lister's "the evolution of spy" video
you say that the ability to heal is the entire reason why the kunai is bad, so I ask you
how is it that the half zatoichi on demoknight is less hated than the kunai?
it feeds off of bad players, the demoknight can insta kill players within melee range, get up to 300 health
its not hated because players know that to stop a demoknight you just use knockback to prevent him from killing you, and he's weak to sentries
so your "health on kill is a bad mechanic that cant be balanced" argument doesn't work either since there's a clearly accepted version of it on the game, health on kill is weak to knockback but people dont try to knock spies back for some reason
I appreciate your comment though
@@L_5050 Demoknight's charge is very loud and only works for the first kill. After that demo requires 2-3 swings to reliable kill everyone after that which. A: Takes more time and B: a lot more players will react to taking damage from the back.
Secondly Spy can cloak and sneak behind enemy lines where demoknight can not (at least not without trimping).
But let's not play pretend here. The one disregarding everything here is you. Shooting rocket and not doing it right? While the spy is ignoring you and running towards a other target. Do you realize how insanely difficult to night impossible it is to juggle a spy that is not moving towards you. Chances stand higher that the spy will surf the explosion to his next backstab target.
I get that you are Spy main and don't want your favorite playstyle to suffer but health absorbtion via a insta kill backstab without any form of cooldown is too much.
Put yourself in the shoe's of another class that has to kill a kunai spy that is on his way to backstab his way through 5 of your teammates. Unless you are pyro with Airblast you cannot do anything because Spy will outheal any damage you do to him until he stabbed his way through the front line. Sure your teammates take much of the blame but if that spy was using any other knife you would have been able to at least deter him if not outright kill him.
I am not talking about a trickstabber montage here. I am talking about uncloaking behind enemy line ---> Stab your way to the front through every enemy who doesn't turn around. Your downsides do literally nothing against that. There is no need to disguise or cloak during a killing spree where you essentially gain god-mode.
You can talk all day about playstyles but none of it will change bad teammates that you have ZERO control over that are not turning around and serve as health packs.
If you really want to make a case that spy is in the same position as a Zatoichi Demoknight then remove Spy's ability to cloak entirely while also keeping disguises removed. But you know yourself why that would be terrible and how hard it would make it to get into a good position. But at the same time if you want a Spy Knife that solely relies on Trickstabs, well there you go.
@@rayzuke1232 I love how you assume that I adore the kunai and don't want my favorite playstyle to suffer but that couldn't be further from the truth
I rarely use the kunai nowadays and prefer the stock knife for its flexibility, my playstyle is based around fooling people with disguises and escaping with good cloak movement similar to jonto's preferred playstyle, and I think that the trickstab playstyle actively hurts spy as a class
I also main soldier alongside spy and find it easy to deny kunai spies kills as solly, even ones with thousands of hours on spy alone, just by using explosive knockback
you dont shoot the spy from behind as soldier, thats a terrible idea as you mentioned, you rocket jump to get in front of him first
dont accuse me of being biased against the kunai and just want to keep my favorite playstyle when have no evidence towards that being the case other than just "you made a defense video"
I guarantee you that if I added up my hours from other classes it would outnumber spy; I have fought against the kunai as other classes
Idk.. i already dont yse the kuni cuz i dont like its playstyle, but slower cloack *and especially the no disguise* would make me hate it even more
I think its perfectly fine for you to dislike a playstyle associated with a weapon, although I didn't suggest a slower cloak for the kunai
@L_5050 oh am just stupid I confused the cloak time and blink time
@@blacklight683 yeah valve could have named that stat better
nice vkd
tyy
Is this the real L from death note
The music is too loud
I posted a version of this video with better audio
NON TOXIC RESPONCE VIDEO!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?! 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
lol ty
I dont understand the kunai is unbalanced crowd to begin with. It's bad against good players and if the spy is stabbing new players he isn't dealing damage to you so at max he has 200 hp any one individual needs to deal with. So end result, some new players who can't turn around die because one person doesn't have the DPS to kill the chainsstab kunai and the spy runs away with some decaying overheal.
"grr it's so unsatisfying, I didn't get to kill that guy and now the new players are dead." isn't a reason to change a weapon, let's be real, those 5 new players weren't gonna do much anyways, who cares if it's a spy or the frontline that deletes them from the gene pool without punishment?
This is an interesting point, I'm not sure if I agree or disagree, but I will say that it does make a difference if they're deleted by a spy or the frontline, since the frontline takes them out gradually which makes it take more time to be pushed by versus a spy who deletes them very quickly
it also depends on what class they're playing but thats a more complicated discussion
@L_5050 Would it then be more acceptable if they died to a sticky trap, up close heavy, kritzkrieg, or just some unlucky spam? Or do we need to nerf all those for achieving that same risk free and near instant new player deletion?
@@BevvRatBites you think all of these are risk free?
@@L_5050 I'd say they're all at least equally as risky as the spy killing half the enemy team.