That Didn't Go As Planned: Can The Honda Navi Beat The Monkey In This Surprising MPG Test?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
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In this video, Alex and Kase test two miniMOTO bikes on an MPG loop with unexpected results.
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I don't think the monkey is a better value at over 2x the cost. And yeah shifting is fun. But you know what's more fun? Buying 2 navis and riding with a friend
I don’t think this is very fair situation to test the Navi. It’s not really for someone in Colorado pinning it back trying to beat headwinds on a cross country highway. Let me reassure anyone who has one ordered or wants one.
I got mine in the last couple of weeks and have been riding it every day I can.
For context I live in hilly Seattle, and I’m 212 lbs.
My first tank of gas got me around 60 miles. But each subsequent tank has gotten me more and more. I think I’m up to about 75-80 mpg depending on my route.
We have a lot of 35-40 mph two lane highways that are inter-suburban traveling roads. Most people go about 40-45 mph on them, and the Navi stays right with them. The steeper hills keep me topped at about 35, but I just navigate myself to roads that are lightly used so I’m not really bogging anyone down.
More often than not, on my routes, someone is holding me up more often than I’m holding up someone else. The important part is just finding routes to your destination that are a good fit for a mini moto. I’ve had an absolute blast on mine, and I just wouldn’t have been able to afford any of the pricier bikes, especially the way they mark these up in the Seattle area.
It's a city bike that can get on the highway briefly in a pinch. This wasn't really an ideal testing ground.
That means the Monkey gets 72% better MPG than the Navi. My Honda Ruckus can do 43mph on flat roads and I've been averaging 105mpg with it. I'm guessing you might need to adjust your carburetor for the higher altitude.
I had a scooter with same 110cc engine that gave me same mileage around 35kmpl that is around 80mpg.
Mine was Honda Activa 2nd Generation. Honda later solved this problem later in 4th Generation models which gave around 50kmpl.
@@siddharthkapadia7674 pretty weird to me that the 110 smaller navi gets worse mpg than the 125 grom. Maybe it has something to do with efficiency. I had a 2008 Kawasaki Vulcan 1600 and it would get about 35-40mpg how I rode it. My father has the exact same year motorcycle except it was a 2000cc and I would get 45-50 on that driving the same way. Bigger engine but better fuel economy. I think this happens because my 1600 had to work ever so slightly harder to propel me down the road. The 2000 burns more fuel per ignition in the cylinder, but it is a stronger engine and so it would get you up to speed a little faster than the 1600 and it would sit lower in the rpms to propel me at faster speeds. So my speed would go up and my engine rpm on a larger engine would go down, and I'd end up getting better fuel economy on a bike with 400 more ccs worth of displacement. I think it has to do with something like that. The 2000 was heavier than the 1600 too. It got better fuel economy with saddle bags and bigger windshields and accessories too. I think it just has more power and so you get up to speed faster and end up using less fuel eventhough it's a bigger engine with more power. Idk. I could be wrong.
@@MrMoneyHelper interesting that you mention this. I didn't know BMW performed this experiment. Very interesting 🤔 could be that too. Better gear ratios for the speeds in my area could also play a big part
@@TheAnnoyingBoss automatic transmision consume more gasoline...not only that the engine is smaller wich means that an adult riding the navi will make the scooter demand more.power.
I've got a Yamaha XF50 C3, 49cc, does 45+, and gets 135 mpg, it's insane, lol.
Maybe dont do burnouts in the dirt .
I know the Navi is basically a scooter but the price is really impressive. If only they offered the Honda trail for near this price and offered cheaper shipping.
I am not surprised by any of this. They are not designed to do what you just did. While it was not planned to happen that way, it just goes to show, play things like those bikes should stay inside of the school yards. lol I would not buy either bike for anything more than putting around camp grounds or small towns. Obviously you 2 know this. And seems most of the viewers do as well.
It just feels like we took a Navi and didn’t break it in. Then we took it on the freeway and pinned the throttle the whole time. So on one hand, we’re putting the bike through a realistic situation it will be put in from time to time. But on the other, it was kind of out of its element into a headwind and without a good broken in engine that uses a carb. So your numbers are real. But not a true representation of the bikes average performance over time. I’ve been going 60 miles on .55 gal consistently. Just to put in my two cents. Following the break in process so far. This video depicts a rare situation and I’m sure I would get 80mpg doing that. But the way I’ve been riding mine around town, it’s been 110mpg. A little less for the first 100 miles. Just about 300 miles on the odometer now. It’s a delightful bike for the environment I have to ride in.
Tbh I also don't understand the reason they pinned the throttle, like I understand most roads in the US are above 30mph but the economy band on the Navi is 30-40mph so them having pinned the throttle is a bit defeating of the purpose of the test imo
@@ghillysniper45 bro you have to pin the throttles on all the mini motos. They live their whole lives right at redline. BakerxDerek In Cali has been riding groms for years pinned at redline.
If they didn't pin the throttle they would have been run over by a 5000 pound vehicle.
change the clutch out, there's a TH-cam video of a guy changing out the clutch on his and after the clutch swap. his clutch weighed 2.5lbs less. which really helped acceleration and probably mpgs too. I was really impressed.
Two questions. How many miles on the Navi? (broken in?)what is your elevation? It says in the manual to re-jet above 5000 ft. Great video. 🐵🛵🙂
TFL is always talking about how they are a mile above sea level (5,280 ft) in their Car/Truck/SUV reviews. Boulder where their office is sits at 5,318 feet. They said at the start they haven’t re-jetted the carb yet. Not sure why they didn’t remark about that in the ending.
Came here looking for a comment about the Navi being carbed and potentially running fat for the elevation… I think it had a lot to do with it… that being said chalk up one more reason to like fuel injection.
The Navi is getting around town not the getting on the highway with. Did not like the video.
I'm seeing comments about break-in and re-jetting, but you also didn't couldn't take into account the fuel wasted playing in the dirt that the Monkey didn't do. That burns A LOT of fuel. Remember, acceleration is where the most fuel is used.
And the fact that Navi rider was full throttle all the freaking time...on purpose I'd bet....
Another great video guys! Re-jetting the Navi would help, but you will shave top end speed off doing that. Because of the thin air we deal with here, sea level tuned bikes loose at least 15% in performance and fuel economy (carbureted). Fuel injection tames that a little, but still will loose performance. Because you two have not lived here long, I would love to show you how to get from the studio in Boulder to the tumble weed ranch on all back roads with posted 45 mph most of the way. It would add maybe ten more miles and 20 min longer, but your reduced heart rate and increased safety make for a really fun ride. Bikes were designed for urban city riding. Ringing the neck of these two mini motos on hwy, the Navi will become a big gulp on the fuel side, with the Monkey not so much.
I am so excited I just bought a red Navi and a green Navi. I can't wait to show all my friends how they can spend quality time with the grandkids! We are the cool grandparents in town!
Considering your elevation and the difference in price your the Navi did well. At half the price OTD it gets more than half the mpg. Once your Navi gets some miles and warm weather it should do better in the MPG department.
Interesting comments. The valuation comparison makes sense. I was thinking about the break in period too, maybe 500 miles until the engine fully breaks in? Warm temperatures result in less air density though. Generally speaking, a 4 stroke combustion engine loses three percent of its rated power for every 1,000 feet of altitude gained.
My Navi got crap mpg the first 400miles like 50 miles a tank(regular tank with out reserve) now it's about 70-85 depending on riding
The Navi is just a tool. The Monkey is so much more.
As previous comments said... no break-in. (Not Smart). Also, minis are Not made for the highway. You guys do well on video editing, but the concept of the content was not intelligent.
I'd like to see a Navi mpg test keeping it to just around town, nothing over 40mph like it seems to be designed for.
Would definitely be interesting to see if the grom gets better fuel economy at speeds below 40. If your cruising around a small town at 30-35 all day just putting around for fun, it would be interesting to see if the Grom starts to fall behind in mpg or not. The navi probably gets better fuel economy the slower you go. Slower you go the less you'll burn so it probably matters less at that point anyway though tbh. Plus how do you get a miles per gallon if it takes you longer to go a mile? Will it burn more or less? Idk tbh
Given that the navi is basically honda activa with a different body you should get about 45km/l i think the fuel economy took a big hit on the highway section since it really not "geared" for american highway speeds
Navi is running rich due to elevation is my guess
This!! They need to try 85 or 87 octane and it will run better at this elevation. Running to Rich with 91
@@badass1g I might be dumb, but why would octane have anything to do with if it's running rich? If it's running rich it's going to run rich whether or not you use premium or not, simply because it's got too little oxygen at altitude and thus it has too much fuel to get a full burn without having extra going out the tailpipe wasted. Only issue is, since it's carbed you could just re-jet it, but while that's a solution, if you ever find yourself riding your navi at sea level, then you'll be running too lean, with too much atmosphere and not enough fuel. For a bike like this getting the mpg it does, if it was me I wouldn't even sorry about the hassle of rejeting the carb. 80 mpg not fully broken in is still very good for a 2k bike from the factory. Probably not worth the effort in rejeting unless you're quick with it. The money it would save you might not counterbalance the time it took to re-jet the carb for Denvers high elevation 😂
I feel like these guys don't know much about carburators nor Colorado... are those guys from Cali?
It really surprised me how far the Monkey could go on a single tank of fuel being pushed hard. Gas stations in TN/NC mountains were not everywhere and the only time I came very close to running out was Cherohala Skyway (A whole lot of clutch coasting downhill was involved) 😅Now my CRF450RL Hell Nah 80 miles and no fuel gauge, talk about sketch.
So if you plan on some long distance hauls on a Monkey it's got enough fuel to go further than you think it would. Just plan out your gas stations ahead of time.
You'd probably get better mpg if you didn't run "premium" its not higher quality, just higher octane. No added benefit and sometimes it causes poorer fuel economy.
As the owner of a '21 Blue Monkey, I like the videos you've made on this bike. Good stuff; thank you!
Incredibly ignorant to pull out in front of a tractor trailer/driver, who earns a living consuming miles, with a 7hp mini. The premise of this video is great but you two need to fall on some common sense once in a while. The minis, there are ways to destroy engine efficiency and MPG, I don't think Honda put much effort into getting MPG out of the Navi engine as it does their other motorcycles. The Navi basically competes with the CRF300L for MPG.
This was very enlightening. I've been interested in the Navi, but I'm thinking something with the 125 would be better now.
Nice vídeo guys we need more of this with the Honda adv150 for example and for the super cub I think is the same mpg from trail ct125 or not?
Awesome stuff guys. Would like to see the Navi’s carb set up professionally by a mechanic with optimal air/fuel ratio and run the test a second time. Or maybe see how the Navi compares to a Honda Ruckus for a little more money.
I would think a carb rejet would be a good idea for the carburetor in the Navi. That thing has to be running super rich at that altitude.
I thought that as well. I have a Navi and it came stock with an 85 main jet. Since I live at 6700’ I ordered an 80 main jet for it. Turns out the 80 was a bit lean (in cool weather). I put the 85 back in! Mileage doesn’t really matter to me since my commute is only three miles and the Navi is just so fun for my needs. Also, as it is breaking in, the power is improving and the suspension is too. Still won’t compare with the fuel injected and better suspended Monkey. Apples to oranges, haha!
Not a good test. The Navi has not been adjusted ifor mile high driving. Yeah let's compare EFI to an unadjusted carburetor. Real good test, not. . Possibly some do not care or there is confirmation bias. Jet or adjust the carb on the Honda Navi, please.
You can't get out the door with a Monkey for less than $5K. Three thousand dollars buys a lot of gas even at 79Mpg. The only reason to buy the Monkey is that it is more fun, not to save money on gas.
Agreed, $3k gets you 600 gallons at $5/gallon. Getting 80mpg would mean your break-even point is nearly 47k miles. The Navi is a better value from a strictly financial perspective. Maybe not the better choice depending one’s use case.
Honestly you’d be better off with Honda Metro or a Ruckus instead of a Navi.
navi was failed by the transmission
My 2022 Grom dash claimed 165 mpg before I sold it. I said the Navi was going to be an mpg lemon (carb + cvt + less power) but nobody wanted to hear it. Both are too slow though, we need a 200cc Grom, that would sell way way better than the current Grom, it would be 50-state freeway legal and top out at an honest 70 which is usable.
I'd like to see the Navi style conversion on a People 175 or Honda equivalent.
Crazy isn't it! After a mere 38,000 miles you'd have paid the same for the driving the Navi as the the Grom lol
I think 250 is the sweet spot for small motorcycles. With anything smaller you are giving up something.
You do get what you pay for. The Navi Was designed for Intown commuting not Highway riding. Fuel injection versus carburetor? What would you expect?
Fuel injected engines automatically just for elevation to the O2 sensor carbureted engines do not
$ 4.79 per gallon?
Crazy cheap. It's $ 10 here In Finland.
I can get 190 Mpg with my 2019 monkey when driving gently.
Done 20k miles with the thing and loved every one of them.
Gas was $1.20 for around a month in Toledo, OH 2 years ago in 2020 lol
Those bikes, especially the scooter are for urban commuting.
Yep, I was surprised when my Navi ran down to reserve at only 53 miles the first time. Re-priming the carburetor at 11:35 can be very tricky in busy traffic. Preventing engine flame-out while switching to reserve is tricky, and rolling restarts aren't always possible. 😉👍 --QM
A rolling restart I dont think is a possibility on the Navi considering you have to have the bake applied to use the starter
@Squid Missile It can be done, but the timing is tricky. The brake only needs to be applied enough to engage the brake switch and enable the starter. The problem is that the Navi slows down fast without power, so you could end up sitting still before it fires up again... ask me how I know! 🤣👍 --QM
He kept calling the same bike, a monkey and a navvy. I don’t even know which one he’s driving at this point.
😂
Smaller tires and slower speeds makes for a rougher time on the road. For pure city commuting, or a first bike someone rides to school, the Navi would probably be just fine as long as secondary neighborhood roads are taken. But I wouldn't recommend it for longer commutes, aggressive traffic, or on roads with a lot of potholes.
Carb vs Fuel Injection.... Not surprising. Also, How did rider weights and apparel compare? I noticed the Navi rider wearing a baggy coat which itself is not good for fuel economy.
This guy needs more experience. Carbed scooters do best between 1/2 and 3/4 throttle. Full crank wastes a lot of fuel.
Sweet spot for the Navi is 25 to 35 mph for the 100+ mpg. Watch the original motovolgs from India.
2022 Super Cub Vs Monkey MPG
Run them both until dry and see which will go the extra Mile
This video makes a very strong case for a TW200.
I have one and it's still lacking on the highway. It will do it but will buzz your hands off. Absolute top speed on mine is 78.
@@travisb9130 I think Honda needs to cram the rebel 300 engine in the Grom, trail 125 and the monkey. Sell it sorta like how they do the rebel 300 and 500 except sell the minis with the 125 and instead of calling the rebel that has 276cc or whatever a "300" like they do now, just call it a 250 so they can say you can get a Grom in a 125 or 250. Plus the rebel 300 engine has a 6 speed. So you could get the 125 in 5 speed or a "250" rebel 300 engine with the 6 speed. Then you could actually take the Grom probably even up above 80mph pretty easy since it's so much lighter than the rebel 300. Maybe even add cruise control as an option to the 300 Grom, a bit like how the rebel 1100 has it from the factory. Then you could actually build a legit touring Grom that can go 80 mph from factory even if you throw on a windshield and saddle bags. Would be so cool. Keep it on scooter tires. I think if they did this with all the minis, if they made the larger engine options belt drive instead of chain, that would cut down on maintenance too. I've never had a bike where I have to clean a chain. I hate cleaning chains
What about Honda Grom vs. Monkey? I like look of Grom, and practical design, more than Monkey, but like the Monkey's MPG.
Dudes yall are on hwy 66 and 119 I know exactly where yall passed! I live in longmont. I knew you guys were from Colorado but I started recognizing where you are. Like coming off 119 into iris in boulder
i was considering a bike for local area and youtube has really been getting me with all these bike channels being from around here!
My experience on my previous 1966 S90. Running around conservatively, really great mileage similar to the Monkey here, but when you're WOT all the time, well WOT is not efficient at all. Tells you there's a sweet spot for non-freeway commuter bikes, me thinking 125-150cc.
I got a Navi for my daughter, but find myself driving it a lot, as it’s fun around town . I am about 200 lbs , and only get around 45-55 miles before I need to go to reserve tank . Believe Honda was too optimistic on MPG , other than that it’s a fun bike . Can get to 45-48 MPH on a straightaway on a good day . Great video, really enjoyed, as well as your other mini Moto videos . Thanks!
how is it? i weight 190lbs and want to get a navi
@@coralcortez3879 so far I like it more than I thought I would. I have bigger bikes , but the Navi is relaxing to drive around on, just twist & go . Got it for my daughter, but I ride it more than her .
@@coralcortez3879 Like Pete Scaperi, I bought my wife a Kymco S200 (163cc) scooter, I've put 1500 miles on it and she hasn't even rode it yet! My son bought his wife a Navi and same... He rides it all over the place! LOL They get best mpg backed off full throttle. So, this test was misleading.
@@coralcortez3879 I have a 2022 Navi and I am 240 lbs. It will go 45 easily with me on board on level roads. Up hill usually will slow down to 40. Gas mileage is about 55 mpg before reserve switch goes on.
The navi would be best for people just starting, due to no clutch and the much lower price point.
Navi is more of a city bike, not for hwy.
Did you fill both with premium at the beginning like you did at the end? That could have had an adverse effect on both power and MPG since both are designed to run on regular (87 in the US)...
That's not how octane works. That wouldn't affect the outcome.
@@frostedjedi Either way, it's a waste of money to put premium in a vehicle designed to run on regular.
@@alexp6409 very true. Although at .5 gallons, a negligible cost.
@@frostedjedi A carb bike not rejetted for high alt. will run better on lower octane fuel. 85 octane would be way better for the Navi than 91...
I love my monkey. I wish I had more time to ride it!
I’d like to see this test conducted again once the Navi has had plenty of break-in miles. I’ve noticed that these MiniMotos dont get nearly the mileage they should until they’ve got 400-600 miles on them.
No need to break any brand new engine in tbh.... but yeah go like 700-800 miles and you'll know what's you're getting into
Navi mileage sucks when I had one I’d be lucky to get 70-75 miles a tank. Really sucked compared to grom, monkey, trail and even ruckus and metropolitan. I’d recommend to anyone to get one of those over the Navi might cost more but totally worth it. Navi is a waste of space in the Honda lineup
And it’s possible to upgrade the engine to a 150 cc would like to see that too like I said I have one and so far just makes it seem it’s not a good travel bike for long distance it’s good for around town on 300+ might get even shitty mileage for distance at top speed but mine does seem to get up to 50 but that’s like peg to the floorboard
When you're on the Navi, it seems like even reality is catching up with you pretty quickly.
I would take the trail 125 over both of these.
Dope video.
I say another video where they said the Navi doesn't hit that 100 MPG as advertised.
All the TH-cam videos I’ve been watching have been touting the Navi low $1800 price, I don’t know what the out the door price is elsewhere, but the Honda dealers withina 200 mile radius of me are between $3600-$3900, twice the msrp! and way more than I would spend on a tiny underpowered scooter.
$2500 OTD with title and registration fees included. Indianapolis IN.
200 miles in and tons of fun for city riding.
@@_purge9488 I ended up buying a Honda Ct70 clone that’s 125cc delivered for $1600. that looks and works great.
@@imperialrving4435 not my style but looks fun!
1800 where I'm at in texas. They got a crap ton of them 30 miles from where I'm at, at that price.
That's because their are a bunch of low life dealers out there that are just raping the public. Thousand dollar mark up, SMH. I found a dealer here in California that's kinda far from me but no mark up, no prep fees. I have to wait till the next shipment to get mine but I'm saving 1600 bucks. I'll wait.
Using 91 octane on such low compression engines seems like an interesting choice.
Monkey is nice but the Grom has better instrumentation now and is a better value than the Monkey. That being said the Monkey and Grom get even better fuel mileage with the new more efficient motor and 5 speed transmission.
Monkey all day!
I have that exact monkey, same color. Very dependable and I get a lot of comments when I stop at gas stations to get a coke. The seat is very comfortable. I like to ride mine much slower, maybe 40mph so I stick to the backroads. I bought it to take camping and maybe cruise the strip down at Panama City or Fernandina. Haven't had the chance to do that yet.
Is there a way you can upgrade the tank on it to a bigger tank I like to upgrade mine to 1 2 gallon tank or 1.5 gallons is it possible to see a video on that
I've got a navi, in south america. It's a city,like super downtown scooter. I get about 91 mpg but I'm rarely going over 25mph.
You can't run a small engine at high RPM and expect good gas mileage. That Navi should stick to the surface streets.
At your high elevation you could and should def experiment with running 85 or 89 octane because you’re running to rich on the navi at high altitude. It would run better with lower octane in that situation.
The Navi is the worst machine Honda have ever made. It's a bargain basement bike, but much worse than that because it offers a false economy. At the same time the Monkey is a great bike but way over-priced. Honda are being greedy. They need to discount the Monkey and Grom as neither are worth the inflated price. This is the problem with "lifestyle" transport. They are either too expensive or plain rip offs. As charming as the Monkey bike is you'd be better off with a PCX. Better speed. More room for luggage. Better spec. And nearly the same fuel economy.
I'm a wealthy man with lots of toys. My 2021 Monkey may be my favorite. Brings me right back to when I was 13 riding my trail 70.
Let me hold 500k 👀
Gimme 1k pls 🥺
Hi, uh, I’m a distant cousin of yours. My name is Greg. Uh, let me know how I can provide value
@@athiftsabit1208 😢😂😂😂😂
Picked up a new navi for my wife. Had .3 mile on it at purchase. Rode back roads home for a hr and 10 min in 53 degree weather with a full tank. 36 miles home burnt 3/4 of a tank. I’ll compare it again once it got it 600 mile break in. But that initial mileage is crap.
I’m only getting like 65 mpg on my Navi Way way off from advertising
The EFI motor is ALWAYS going to be better Having ridden my carburetor Suzuki GS850 through the West several times it always barely ran at high elevations
The difference is Manual and CVT,
CVT are less efeecient than Gears, Power lose is inevitable in CVTs
The monkey has an EFI and manual clutch, that's a good parts if you wanted a good mileage. The Navi has a carb and using CVT scoot engine.
First, why is Alex sticking his finger all the way in the fuel neck of the gas tank? Secondly, why are you guys being assholes to the trucker by cutting him off? I mean, these mini motors are too slow and dangerous for highway driving.
semi behind you ... move over onto the emergency lane. Why stick in the middle of the lane as though you were riding a Harley?
Is that the 5speed monkey or 4speed? I have the 2019 4 speed, is there any major differences in mpg? Im sure 5 speed will be better on gas mileage but by how much?
Exactly the reason I don't buy carburetors on bikes anymore, I'd rather just replace the pump on an injected bike than pay more money for fuel on an incorrectly tuned carb. Some people like it, I say its obscelete technology
Belt style CVTs have their advantages but efficiency isn't one of them. On something underpowered like one of these the difference in efficiency vs. a traditional transmission is going to be a huge factor in fuel efficiency and top speed.
That's almost twice the fuel efficiency! Why would you go with the Navi?
That's enough to make me appreciate my KLR 650.
i think maybe the best place for the navi is in town or just putting around on country roads with a 110 cc motor can expect to much.good video
"we didn't tune it for altitude even though it's not fuel injected."
Also
"Let's test its performance!"
Numbers don't lie. I'd be afraid of getting run over on that Navi. The Trail 125cc is more worth it.
With CVT transmission don't expect better gas mileage with it.
I did not like the video guys. There is another video on TH-cam. This guy got 90 miles on a single tank of gas.
Why do I love 2 wheels so much!!! lol.... :)
the navi is just honda saying" you dont need anything fancy to have fun"
My Navi full peg gets 50 miles per gallon at no more than 35 miles per mile I get the claimed 100 mpg
NC750 gets that kind of mileage.
Navi is meant for city commuting. For that it's the best.
The Navi was a africa reject.. so they had to do something with it
Love the I Did That Biden sticker on the gas pump. Lol
The Navi is half the price. This is comparing apples to oranges.
Trail gets better MPG than Navi. Hands down.
Really you can’t pull over on the shoulder and let the semi go by!!
Bad test, navi was pinned 100% .the aweet spot os 30-35, not 50mph
Was the Navi's Choke partially Closed?
Navi has a carburetor vs the EFI on the Monkey or the Grom
On a 40mph road I get 118 mpg. 2019 PCX 150.
Vance hynes header pos broke twice on me😮😢 sucks