Very interesting indeed. Clearly the various builders, plumbers and electricians that have worked on my house over the past 110 years have failed to watch your video!
You are a real help to engineers specially newly accredited 👍 big respect to you mate and you are actully helping people not make mistakes that could lead to damage and also disasters that could result in people being hurt.
Love this video Derek ...seen some rum pipe runs in me life ..cracks me up the way Plumbers lift and relay floor boards...and lets not mention chipboard flooring....LOL.
Helpful. But as amateur can I double check with you pls. I have squeaky UPPER floor, which appears to be from loose floorboards (after 18years from newbuild). The floor has underfloor NU-Heat heating which is clipped to the underside of the floorboards. The floorboards are 25mm thick. The original screws used by the builder (to screw down the floorboards) are 50mm long x 3.5mm diameter. My options are:- a) Re-tighten the floorboard screws b) Replace the floorboard screws to 5, or even 6mm diameter - for better grip c) Replace the floorboard screws to longer 60mm screws (of 5 or 6mm) I want to avoid hitting cables, pipes etc hidden in notch/hole passages in the joists. Question is, I assume it is safe to use the longer 60mm screws? I am led to “believe” that holes/passages must be 2inches (50mm) away from top/bottom of the joists. And with floorboard 25mm thick, the 60mm screws will only go down (25mm through the floorboard and..) 35mm into the joists; therefore the 60mm screws (re-screwed into the ORIGINAL/old screw holes of replaced screws) likely safe from hitting any wires etc? Also, can I assume changing to 5 or even 6mm diameter screws is NOT a problem? (if they do not split the floorboards etc). Can you kindly advise? p/s I also have headache that if I want to put extra screws, I might miss the JOIST and hit the pipes !!! So at the moment I am just thinking or replacing old screws with longer screws of bigger diameter - re-inserted into the old/original screw holes Look forward to you advice/comments. Thank you
@@kclim2631I don’t know your system so can’t really comment but I would lift a board first if possible to inspect underneath before I would start putting in longer screws
@@tomkatgastraining Thank you for your reply. Lifting a board will be difficult or impossible as it has underfloor heating clip-plates on the underside of the boards. Any other suggestions most welcome. By the way, is it true that (for UK regs) holes must be MORE than 50mm from the top of the joists?
My joists are overlapped, wall to wall it is 8.2meters which is 2x 4.8meter joists overlapped 600mm on the load bearing wall. Do I treat this as 1 big joist or do I treat it as 2 separate joists regarding notching/drilling?
I've kind of made up my own rules to go along with this. Generally the joist size will be the same size throughout the house regardless of span. They'll probably be sized for the greatest unsupported span found. For example, in my house I've got a 7x2 spanning less than 700mm in one place. Therefore I reckon I've got at least half unnecessary wood. 😅 Only to get me out of trouble. You would probably need a structural engineer to calculate it if you got pulled up. Position is still important because the bending moment of the timber is the same
So - notches are actually in the red zone A for holes. Holes are in the red zone C for notches ! So the 100 mm min distance btwn a hole & notch must straddle these zones.
Strange. From a structural point of view the bearing end of the joist has maximum shear force and zero bending stress, so the best place to notch. In the centre of the span is maximum bending stress which increases from the centre to the edges. So in theory notching near the wall (bearing) would be the best place. However in the centre is the worst place to notch but the best place to drill through is the centre (neutral axis) Of course as you say there's a limit to the size of holes or notches and smooth round edges are best! You can make extra notches of course. Bonus notches, GOODNIGHT! 🤣
renovating my kitchen, plan to run a 3" drain pipe through 5 solid wood joists of 8", (in B area) the holes that run the drain pipe are over 3" Dia, so I want to use the metal joist reinforcement plate to support the joists. it is possible? Thanks
Worked on a 16c farm house with oak beams and joists floors . both election and plumber notched and drilled joists much to my objection both within allowed spec but together they structural weakened the floor that could barely support itself it was already bent due to it's age . it was used a office above with filing cabinets after the work the floor began to move and became obvious it had been structural weakened the old timber which had dried out and became less strong over time . eventually the replacement oak floor joists were fitted between floor beams spanning 4ft The regs don't cover all situations and doesn't always give you the OK to go ahead without seeking advice from a structural engineer . Just been to look at another house fitted with none standard joists 9x1 over 5 meter never seen such thin joist used and fitted in the 1800's before any building regs existed chopping these joists would seriously weaken the floor . in this case I would run pipe work behind skirting boards and design bathroom so soil pipe doesn't interfere with floor joists . sometimes you have to design the bathrooms around the existing layout and not to the customers ideas if it structural compromise the floor joists . Also gas flue and solid fuel flues stoves pipes need to kept away from load bearing beams seen so may chopped out below load bearing beam especially 45° flues through solid stone walls these structural weak walls significantly . one customers fitted flue through a supporting 16inch wide column with a window lintel bearing both side and a oak beam 12x12 resting on top between the two windows lintel . the fitter was quite happy to smash a 6inch hole just below the Intels at 45° under a two tonne oak beam . if your unsure always seek advice from a structural engineer if the customers is insisting on a location and your unsure insist on a structural engineer reported before knocking and big holes in joists or walls or below beams.
When joists from a room meeting those from another room, still in the same direction but touching themselves sideways (usually joined together by bolts, plate with retaining nuts, are they to be considered 1 long joist when talking about 7 and 25%?
When I take up flooring for plumbing issues I always find the middle red danger zone drilled or notched, 9 think that is because if you refuse to do it, you should go for a very long run instead, is it correct?
Thanks Derek this is really helpful. Can you do any video on imperial and matric meters gas rats, reverse gas rate from appliance to meter and reverse gas rate from imperial ft3 to metric m3/hr gas rate thanks.
i need to run a vent hose for my cooker hood if the joists are going the wrong way how can this be achieved? the duct is 100mm. obviously cant drill a 100mm hole in a joist
Hi there Derek thanks for the video... brilliant as usual!! currently in my niceic book I think some things have started to become a bit misleading... fig 5.47 says that the max hole is equal to and no greater than 0.30 (30%)of the depth - and if that is the case then with the example they give marked in red ...then using a 200mm joist the max hole size should not be more than 60mm however the book says 30mm ....!! also in the same fig it says the min distance is equal to and no greater than 10%( 0.10) for a hole !!! Arrrggghh ....getting a bit confused .Can you throw any light on this for me ? many thanks again 🙂
Is this knew builds or retro installs and how many years back does this apply. As I see lots of older properties being drilled a notched in the wrong places. Thanks
@@tomkatgastraining Found it.. viper book , Volume 2 , K-24. Only said it because it jogged my memory watching your vid. Keep going with the knowledge and inspirational videos 👏👏👍.
Hi Derek great informative videos you make 😊 I'm have a problem with a Schrader valve in an expansion tank. It won't release air when I press the pin in so can't check the pressure. If I try to remove the valve with the removing tool will it shoot out like a bullet? 🙈😄
@@tomkatgastraining I think it does yes. I was thinking the Schrader valve pin is stuck but I could be wrong. Is it ok to remove the valve if it's under pressure? Of course I will do it in a safe place and point it away from me 😄
@@tomkatgastraining ok so this either means that you need to lower down the ceiling or increase the height of the floor upstairs? Or you were talking about ground floors, cause in ground floor you can go underneath joists with pipes so don't really need to notch or drill
Very interesting indeed. Clearly the various builders, plumbers and electricians that have worked on my house over the past 110 years have failed to watch your video!
Thanks Derek. I've always found this confusing so it's nice to have it explained clearly. Great video. 👍
You are a real help to engineers specially newly accredited 👍 big respect to you mate and you are actully helping people not make mistakes that could lead to damage and also disasters that could result in people being hurt.
Thanks Derek , As always an excellent presentation given with clarity.
Thanks a first class explanation. Very clear and broken down into the relevant sections.
Thank you for your efforts, good video better that so called training centres
The last of my 6035 practical assessments 👍👍👍 saved the best to last
Very informative without banging on forever - Thank you
Love this video Derek ...seen some rum pipe runs in me life ..cracks me up the way Plumbers lift and relay floor boards...and lets not mention chipboard flooring....LOL.
Always makes everything clear and easy to understand top guy top trainer 👍🏻
Great video will be sharing its information 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Brilliant presentation Derek. Now why do I watch these now I'm retired 😁
Thanks Derek.
Informative and essential as ever👍🏾
Derek you were correct, there's no air in the expansion tank. I've ordered a new one.
👍🏻
Great video that helped me with my acs reassessment fantastic
Helpful. But as amateur can I double check with you pls. I have squeaky UPPER floor, which appears to be from loose floorboards (after 18years from newbuild). The floor has underfloor NU-Heat heating which is clipped to the underside of the floorboards. The floorboards are 25mm thick. The original screws used by the builder (to screw down the floorboards) are 50mm long x 3.5mm diameter. My options are:-
a) Re-tighten the floorboard screws
b) Replace the floorboard screws to 5, or even 6mm diameter - for better grip
c) Replace the floorboard screws to longer 60mm screws (of 5 or 6mm)
I want to avoid hitting cables, pipes etc hidden in notch/hole passages in the joists.
Question is, I assume it is safe to use the longer 60mm screws? I am led to “believe” that holes/passages must be 2inches (50mm) away from top/bottom of the joists. And with floorboard 25mm thick, the 60mm screws will only go down (25mm through the floorboard and..) 35mm into the joists; therefore the 60mm screws (re-screwed into the ORIGINAL/old screw holes of replaced screws) likely safe from hitting any wires etc?
Also, can I assume changing to 5 or even 6mm diameter screws is NOT a problem? (if they do not split the floorboards etc). Can you kindly advise?
p/s I also have headache that if I want to put extra screws, I might miss the JOIST and hit the pipes !!! So at the moment I am just thinking or replacing old screws with longer screws of bigger diameter - re-inserted into the old/original screw holes
Look forward to you advice/comments. Thank you
@@kclim2631I don’t know your system so can’t really comment but I would lift a board first if possible to inspect underneath before I would start putting in longer screws
@@tomkatgastraining Thank you for your reply. Lifting a board will be difficult or impossible as it has underfloor heating clip-plates on the underside of the boards. Any other suggestions most welcome. By the way, is it true that (for UK regs) holes must be MORE than 50mm from the top of the joists?
Absolute legend, have learnt a lot from watching your videos.
great video , explained in detail and in simple terms . one thing , have the code changed since the video was made?
My joists are overlapped, wall to wall it is 8.2meters which is 2x 4.8meter joists overlapped 600mm on the load bearing wall. Do I treat this as 1 big joist or do I treat it as 2 separate joists regarding notching/drilling?
I've kind of made up my own rules to go along with this. Generally the joist size will be the same size throughout the house regardless of span. They'll probably be sized for the greatest unsupported span found. For example, in my house I've got a 7x2 spanning less than 700mm in one place. Therefore I reckon I've got at least half unnecessary wood. 😅
Only to get me out of trouble. You would probably need a structural engineer to calculate it if you got pulled up. Position is still important because the bending moment of the timber is the same
Brilliant vid. Thanks Derek!
So - notches are actually in the red zone A for holes. Holes are in the red zone C for notches ! So the 100 mm min distance btwn a hole & notch must straddle these zones.
Thanks Derek great video 👍
Another interesting video
Very good presentation
Hi Derek very interesting.
Mark
Thomas Bradwell
Thanks Derek
Strange. From a structural point of view the bearing end of the joist has maximum shear force and zero bending stress, so the best place to notch. In the centre of the span is maximum bending stress which increases from the centre to the edges. So in theory notching near the wall (bearing) would be the best place. However in the centre is the worst place to notch but the best place to drill through is the centre (neutral axis)
Of course as you say there's a limit to the size of holes or notches and smooth round edges are best!
You can make extra notches of course. Bonus notches, GOODNIGHT! 🤣
Great info well done 😊👍🏼♥️
renovating my kitchen, plan to run a 3" drain pipe through 5 solid wood joists of 8", (in B area) the holes that run the drain pipe are over 3" Dia, so I want to use the metal joist reinforcement plate to support the joists. it is possible? Thanks
Thank you so much i understood it better
very informative video
Worked on a 16c farm house with oak beams and joists floors . both election and plumber notched and drilled joists much to my objection both within allowed spec but together they structural weakened the floor that could barely support itself it was already bent due to it's age . it was used a office above with filing cabinets after the work the floor began to move and became obvious it had been structural weakened the old timber which had dried out and became less strong over time . eventually the replacement oak floor joists were fitted between floor beams spanning 4ft
The regs don't cover all situations and doesn't always give you the OK to go ahead without seeking advice from a structural engineer .
Just been to look at another house fitted with none standard joists 9x1 over 5 meter never seen such thin joist used and fitted in the 1800's before any building regs existed chopping these joists would seriously weaken the floor . in this case I would run pipe work behind skirting boards and design bathroom so soil pipe doesn't interfere with floor joists . sometimes you have to design the bathrooms around the existing layout and not to the customers ideas if it structural compromise the floor joists .
Also gas flue and solid fuel flues stoves pipes need to kept away from load bearing beams seen so may chopped out below load bearing beam especially 45° flues through solid stone walls these structural weak walls significantly . one customers fitted flue through a supporting 16inch wide column with a window lintel bearing both side and a oak beam 12x12 resting on top between the two windows lintel . the fitter was quite happy to smash a 6inch hole just below the Intels at 45° under a two tonne oak beam . if your unsure always seek advice from a structural engineer if the customers is insisting on a location and your unsure insist on a structural engineer reported before knocking and big holes in joists or walls or below beams.
One of my pet peeves is plumbers not adhering to this. Some of the joists I’ve seen with 2 inch notches in the centre for bath wastes lol.
When joists from a room meeting those from another room, still in the same direction but touching themselves sideways (usually joined together by bolts, plate with retaining nuts, are they to be considered 1 long joist when talking about 7 and 25%?
When I take up flooring for plumbing issues I always find the middle red danger zone drilled or notched, 9 think that is because if you refuse to do it, you should go for a very long run instead, is it correct?
What about going through noggins? Does this still apply in full as they are secondary to the main joists. Thanks Brian
Thanks Derek this is really helpful. Can you do any video on imperial and matric meters gas rats, reverse gas rate from appliance to meter and reverse gas rate from imperial ft3 to metric m3/hr gas rate thanks.
Already have check out the channel
Thank you, Nikola Ditsov
😂😂 build control would have a feild day in all these old terrace houses
Can you change normal joist for metal web ones?
i need to run a vent hose for my cooker hood if the joists are going the wrong way how can this be achieved? the duct is 100mm. obviously cant drill a 100mm hole in a joist
Hi there Derek thanks for the video... brilliant as usual!! currently in my niceic book I think some things have started to become a bit misleading... fig 5.47 says that the max hole is equal to and no greater than 0.30 (30%)of the depth - and if that is the case then
with the example they give marked in red ...then using a 200mm joist the max hole size should not be more than 60mm however the book says 30mm ....!! also in the same fig it says the min distance is equal to and no greater than 10%( 0.10) for a hole !!! Arrrggghh ....getting a bit confused .Can you throw any light on this for me ? many thanks again 🙂
thanks derek..
Thanks 🙏
Is this knew builds or retro installs and how many years back does this apply. As I see lots of older properties being drilled a notched in the wrong places. Thanks
New and old and been around for a very long time 👍🏻
Can you just increase the joist size in the area that you need to drill/notch by by nailing/bolting a short length of deeper joist?
As long as the new larger joist is supported at each end
Thanks Tomkat... read somewhere notches should be U-shaped.... any thoughts.
I have not seen that in the building regs mate and I don’t see why you would
@@tomkatgastraining Found it.. viper book , Volume 2 , K-24. Only said it because it jogged my memory watching your vid. Keep going with the knowledge and inspirational videos 👏👏👍.
Hi Derek great informative videos you make 😊
I'm have a problem with a Schrader valve in an expansion tank. It won't release air when I press the pin in so can't check the pressure. If I try to remove the valve with the removing tool will it shoot out like a bullet? 🙈😄
Are you sure it has any air in it
@@tomkatgastraining I think it does yes. I was thinking the Schrader valve pin is stuck but I could be wrong. Is it ok to remove the valve if it's under pressure? Of course I will do it in a safe place and point it away from me 😄
@@2711marcus I have removed them full of air but make sure you use the correct removal tool
@@tomkatgastraining Thank you Derek I will do 😊
How do you increase the size of the joist?
Put new ones in
@@tomkatgastraining ok so this either means that you need to lower down the ceiling or increase the height of the floor upstairs?
Or you were talking about ground floors, cause in ground floor you can go underneath joists with pipes so don't really need to notch or drill
Why we cant notch closer to the support than A ? Please explain
Weakens the supported end and it’s where the joiners nail the first board of the floor
@@tomkatgastraining the joist's effort is zero at the support since its held by the wall, I understand the rule of B but not the rule of A
👍 Sue Warrington
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Shane hunt
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Bryan Williams
Stephen Humphreys
Seen a whole row of joists notched out to carry a 110mm soil pipe.😖😖😖
Jon-Paul Ward
tomkat👍
Marcin Masalski
James O’Brien
A Przybyl
Raza watched 08/02/2022
Mike Fahy
These rules are hardly ever adhered to....I had my house rewired recently and they put holes all over the place that breach these rules
Bilal
As much as this is acurate no one measures the joists lol
You are not wrong
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