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CANON R7 AUTOFOCUS WOES, ANY IDEAS?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2024
- My Canon R7 has some autofocus issues and I don't know why, I showcase those issues and plenty of lovely shots I was able to capture with the R7 & RF100-500 in the field. I would love to hear if you have the same issues or any ideas what is going on. Cheers, Duade
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Chapters
00:00 R7 & RF100-500
01:01 R7 & Robins
04:44 Robins & Antechinus
09:38 Autofocus Issues
16:22 Conclusion
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Music
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Lysihea, Candelion - Epidemic Sound
I think It is an issue with the AF algorithm when using Servo on subjects that are basically stationary. You will find fewer problems if you use on shot AF… it’s as if the servo AF is constantly trying to chase the subject and if the subject is stationary it gets confused and tries to shift focus thus creating out of focus situations, which are then corrected by the AF system ….that way creating a succession of in-focus, out of focus shots.
You shouldn't need to use one-shot though, the fact that servo is unable to keep focus on the subject, moving or stationary, means there's an issue with the AF system
@@dr5290 Check out page 442 of the R7 manual, there is this caution:
Consider shooting with One-Shot AF if Servo AF operation is unsteady for still subjects.
This was confirmed by a level 3 customer service rep. When a person was having issues with the EOS R.
@@VoidShepherd it's not a settings issue though, it's an issue with the focus system in a batch of cameras. I returned my R6II and it's not happening with the new one. You shouldn't have to use one shot on a stationary subject, because the subject might move!
@georgeandreou695 While I agree with you that you shouldn't have to do such. I was just sharing a solution that has worked for others and was provided by Canon themselves. There are of course exceptions to everything.
I don't think it's your camera, I've also been having an extremely frustrating time getting keepers with this camera, particularly action shots. I don't know if there's specific autofocus settings I should be using (I've tried playing with the options), but honestly a camera at this price range should work well out of the box, particularly as I'm using canon glass (100-400 II). Would definitely love a followup vid if you ever solve these issues.
I have a Tamron 150-600 and i have the same issues. Must be the R7
@@lv9084 It definitely is. I also get it really badly with my Sigma 18-35mm. It's almost like DSLR-style back focusing. In bad conditions, it consistently misses.
@@lv9084 The R7 and the Tamron 150-600 just don't seem to play well together. I loved my 150-600 but became so frustrated with the inconsistent results that I finally traded it in for Canon 100-400 II L and a 1.4 teleconverter. (NOT the RF version but EF with teleconverter and adaptor). It doesn't give me quite the same range but the shots are more consistently clear. I found a really nice used 100-400 at a camera store for a good price. If you decide to do this in the future, make sure to get the "II" version, not the older version of this lens.
@@lv9084 that lens got way worse issues with the R7 canon themself said that it dosnt work well with the R7 but nothing about other lenses what ive heard
This happens to me all the time, and yes, it's incredibly frustrating. I've had it happen regardless of shutter speed, and regardless of lighting conditions, though it happens more in lower light, low contrast situations. I also have had multiple occasions where the camera grabs focus on a perched bird immediately and the moment I start shooting the focus shifts to the background. I've spoken to some folks at Canon and have sent examples of the burst to them on request. I've not heard anything.
I've had that as well. So frustrating.
🙋♂️ +1 Same
I’ve experienced something like that on my R6.
We need further investigation. Does adapting their native EF lens, which is in theory has no speed penalty, also suffer from this problem?
yes I have the EXACT problems.
Strangely other users DARE NOT bring this up, only when I questioned them do they say so....something about the Cancel Culture these days....
Same thing happened with my R7...every single time I used it. I did a couple videos about it and tried using it for a few months before I just gave up and sold it and went back to my R5 and R6 II. every other gripe I had about the camera was subjective and could have easily been overlooked and overcome, but I just couldn't get over that AF issue. From the comments on my videos and messages I've received, I'd say it's a large enough sample size to assume it's a general problem with the R7.
That’s fair. I watch all you guys videos particularly on canon bodies but not moved into bird photography (enjoyable to watch so thanks). My culling process has improved from keeping everything in the dslr days to getting rid now but not noticed this focus issue. I will keep my eye open
I don’t use canon but one thing I have found on Nikon and Fuji is IBIS and lens stabilisation settings sometimes cause the focus points to move about due to small phase differences and synchronisation between the systems. You may find changing to sports or switching one or the other off may help. No idea but just a guess. Thank for the videos and good luck 👍
yeah, I sometimes notice this on DSLRs without IBIS. The moving optical element can introduce defocusing and motion blur. On the RF 100-400 + 1.4x teleconverter it usually works fine but I've had some occasions where it spazzes out inexplicably.
Hi Duade - I am very glad that someone else is talking about these issues with the R7 - my partner has one, and has been plagued by focussing issues, despite updating the firmware each time, and even in desperation returning it to factory original settings. The final straw in terms of knowing there was a problem was a series of images in good light taken at 1/3200 shutter speed - the spot focus square was spot on the eye, but all the shots were out of focus, although some of the surrounding area was in focus. It was returned to Canon and they changed the circuit board - however, although this seems to improved the focus issue, the camera now will not save the time and date, so is having to be returned again, as all the shots taken now have no date stamp, and big problems in Lightroom. I’m afraid Canon seems to have not acknowledged that there are significant problems with a proportion of these bodies, and by the way, the lack of personal dialogue ( just computerised forms etc) doesn’t help, or provide much satisfaction. I’m afraid I will have to advise anyone to avoid this camera .
That's a bit harshbjust because you've had issues, to name a few the D500, D5, 7D mkii, Sony A7III etc all had issues at launch
I’m afraid as a long time Canon user I find the service provided given the (admitted) problems to be well short of what I would expect…
I increasingly believe, given the issues highlighted by numerous people that there are significant issue with this camera - very sad for the people who have bought it !
I use the R7 for HS Volleyball games and noticed the same issue. Took some pics at 15 fps and noticed some were in focus then out of focus and back. Lenses I use are 50mm f1.8m, 85mm f1.8, and 70-200mm f2.8. Will try to play around with the autofocus settings a bit more.
Dude, I sometimes see this on an R5 too, using RF 100-500.
I suspect tracking and movement from handholding interact. Would be easy to test using fixed target and on and off a tripod, haven't done it yet, perhaps you might want play?!
Where do you live? I suspect the level of service differs from country to country. At least they accepted there was an issue and changed the board, I didn't get that far.
I have the exact same issue! I usually don't pay too much attention, cause I take so many pictures that some end up being perfectly sharp! Still, I would be lying if I said this hasn't ruin some good pictures for me! Went to Brazil now, and out of 70k pictures, 30k had this issue of being out of focus!
out of curiosity, what places you visited? Did you enjoyed it? I live in Brazil and am looking for places to shoot
@@rflsms tu é de onde ?? Acredito que um lugar bacana seria no Mato Grosso, pela grande quantidade de espécies existentes lá ..
Quero me programar de ir pra lá quando eu estiver de férias no Brasil ..
No momento estou procurando por raposas do árticos kkk mas está difícil de fotografar elas, só encontro elas quando estou sem câmera 😅
Foi Mato Grosso mesmo, e um pouco no litoral norte de SP! Pantanal é o lugar mais incrível que já pisei!
@@leoguedes6781 deve ser uma experiência muito legal!! Os animais realmente parecem saber quando estamos com a câmera preparada 😂
Estou em Ribeirão Preto, no interior de São Paulo, procurando algum lugar bacana pra fotografar e descansar pouco antes do ano acabar, preciso sair dessas telas! (a do viewfinder não conta)
I have the same issues and found out that reducing the Tracking Sensitivity (AF menu option 2) to the minimum it helped a lot for it to stick to the subject and stop being naughty, hunting and getting distracted. Also if using eye detection, make sure you have the right subject for it, i.e. Animals Vs People. Also, I've noticed that my R7 works a lot better on the 100-400 ii, than on the 100-500, I guess that it's because the latter is slower.
I have also tried this, and it works perfectly. Using Case 2, tracking sensitivity to lowest.
I too don't have a high keeper rate. Recently I've started shooting in the lowest speed continuous mode. It's not perfect there either but the keeper rate does seem to be higher. Also, you virtually never hit the buffer. All that said, I believe the keeper rate is higher, even at 15 fps than it was with my old favorite APSC camera, the Nikon D500.
Phil, I subscribe and follow you on TH-cam, Ralph Thomason; I'd like to get a consensus on this... If the shot is difficult, I use manual focus to prefocus... This may be surprising but I find the R7 likes spot or partial spot metering... I use partial, it has improved my results.. Thanks love all your videos..
@@JOHNMARTIN501 Yes,I used to find the same sort of thing sometimes with my Nikon D500 and Sigma 150-600mm C. My view is that ir shoulsdn't happen but is one of the advantages of a burst. At the moment it is what it is and i can live wtih it until it gets sorted.
I had a similar problem. I pre ordered an R7 when they were anounced, the camere eventually arrived and so I started testing it, within 3 days I noticed a similar AF issue, I was shooting at 15 fps in electronic shutter and shot in short bursts and found that some bursts were sharp and some out of focus, about 50/50. this was the case when using both eye detect and single point AF. I then spent 3 weeks communicating with Canon, sending them example pics and lists of settings, and trying different settings all to no avail, the problem persisted. At that point I asked told the technical suppor that I still had the option to return the camera for a full rufund and they advised that, that would be my best course of action, that suggested to me that they had no idea how to sort the problem and it looks like they still dont. The camera went back and I am still using my 7D2. I was very dissapointed that no one ells seemed to have the same problem all the reviewers said it was a great camera and didnt pick up on the problem, I thought it was a great camera but a camera must auto focus reliably to be any good.
I’ve noticed this as well. Both, with the R7 and an R6 MII. I actually had more issues with the R6 than the R7. The R6 I found would not autofocus after doing a photo shoot. It finally corrected itself but it was weird. The R7 I was using the RF 100-500, and the R6 I was using an EF 24-105 L. It wasn’t too big of an issue, the R7 I only had a couple of sports photos that weren’t tack sharp, out of hundreds of photos.
The R6 I couldn’t take any photos during this issue as the camera just wouldn’t focus, it was sort of hunting if you will. I was disappointed in the R6 for that reason. Perhaps there will be a firmware update to fix these issues.
Yes, this has been an issue with my R7. Seems to happen more with my RF 800 f11 than with my adapted EF 100-400MM MK2. I tried to contact Canon but unless you're one of their supported "Pro's" they don't reply back. I even sent them examples.... Hopefully they see your video and address this issue.
same with me. There are issues with my adapted 100-400mm MK2, but not as many when I am using the F/11 800mm. I hope Canon addresses this issue.
THIS IS the reason R1 is delayed
On some cameras using a monitor will disable the phase detect autofocus and the camera will use primarily contrast autofocus will pulse back and forth. I think this is what you're experiencing. Also i noticed you said you were using Electronic front curtain, have you tried using just mechanical shutter I know you'll have a slower frames per second but its normally more accurate.
Thanks again Duade for your forthright review of the issues you are having with the R7. To me, the R7 is a flawed design, because of an imbalance of components that have been combined together. Here is what I suspect is at least part of the issue:
1. Pixel Density and the impact on Dual Pixel AF.
Given the R7 has a 32MP FSI APS-C sensor: in terms of pixel density, if we convert that to an equivalent pixel count for a FF camera of the same density, it would result in a 82MP FF sensor! Those pixels are used to establish dual pixel focus and given that the R7 was using a variation of the focusing system designed for the R3, which is a FF BSI/Stacked sensor of just 24MP, it means that the sensor readout for focusing has to be incredibly fast, but it's not. What would be required is a stacked/BSI sensor to massively speed up the bus between the photosites, and the focus processor, which would also need to be very fast given the pixel density. This is exacerbated by the high electronic shutter speeds it tries to offer. I suspect that results in a delay readout across the sensor that delivers to the processor different focus results comparing top to bottom of the sensor, resulting in a confusing pattern and a pulsing effect.
2. It is interesting that you had an issue with Sigma lenses and the R7 and now exhibit the same issue on the native Rf 100-500L, which is a top of the line optic. I will first comment that after the flak that Sigma got, they published a video on You Tube to the point that their EF lenses work perfectly well with R-series bodies, showing (amongst others) them shooting birds with the 150-600c, which seems to have been the major subject of complaints. However, they were using the 150-600c on the R6, which is a FF sensor of 20MP and with its own focusing system.
I provide support from NZ on the Canon Community website, which supports Canon worldwide but is based out of the US. As such I see a significant number of people with all sorts of issues with using their Canon gear - many of which would be resolved if the read the manual (venting over). We have had numerous issues with people talking about focusing issues on the R7, but very very few on the R5, R6, R6II and even the lesser APS-C bodies - and I suspect that is because those units have a better balance between the components for focus, and also for the data delivery bus for image processing. From that, and using the R7 on trial, I have avoided that model. I have posted here before on what I consider it numerous flaws so I won't try your patience again.
Personally, I shoot with the R5, 2xR6, R6II on the Sigma 150-600c, 60-600s, RF 100-500, EF 100-400MkII, EF 70-200 f/4MkII, and EF 70-300L. I shoot hand-held, single point autofocus with tracking, in available light and have NEVER had an issue with pulsing on any of these bodies. I don't shoot electronic shutter.
I've had this exact same issue with my R6II, so I don't think it's a pixel density issue. I've also tested it with every setting possible and a number of EF/RF lenses and it happens consistently every time.,
@@georgeandreou695 What lenses were you using, under what conditions, and did the lenses and camera have the latest firmware? No camera will give 100% focus for wildlife, but there are clear technical shortcomings inherent in the design - it was built to a price.
@@trevor9934 I had this issue with two EF and one RF lens, on both an R6 and and R6II. So not entry level price points. I shot under a range of conditions and tried all AF settings, over a period of weeks. Body and lens firmware was up to date. The fact that the issue did not happen with my second R6II points to a problem batch, that also appears to have affected R7s and R5s. So I don't buy canon's explanation that it's due to the slower speed of the sensor in lower end models.
I’ve experienced something similar with my R7 and RF 100-400. I haven’t investigated it much because the AF is still so much better than my old 60d and I still get sharp images in almost all the bursts.
Yup, me too. I took the 100-400 to a wedding just two days ago and I could hardly get focus to save my life. There wasn't a *ton* of light and I was inside, but this was some DSLR back focusing stuff.
I think that's the problem, most of us changed 60d, 70d or even 90d for the R7, so the eye focus blows our minds, and we kinda don't care about getting some out of focus photos, because the eye AF is so much better than our old bodies...
Hi Duade - I have had the same issue from day one. It's not user error. I went through a number of tests trying to see if it was me or the camera. What I noticed is that the camera focus motors are oscillating back and forth constantly when it has achieved focus. Non of my previous cameras do this. I even went as far as setting up the camera on a tripod, using a remote trigger and listening to the lens constantly hunting back and forth. You need to put your ear up close to the lens, or use a microphone. This is with my 100-400 Mk2. I'm pretty sure it is an overly aggressive algorithm that is overshooting and then correcting back in the opposite direction and then overshooting focus again. That's why some of the shots are in focus, it just so happens that the shot was taken when the plane of focus was passing through the bit you initially focused on. Some have mentioned it focuses better in video mode, which is true. In that mode the lens is mostly quiet and the motors aren't hunting back and forth. On my last trip out I was so annoyed I started manually focusing and ended up with much sharper images. Whenever I get asked about the camera I now advise not to buy it, it's just not worth the hassle with the amount of shots that are out of focus. I often have a better success rate with my older EOS R which has an even slower sensor and worse AF system. Canon need to address the issue.
Hi Duade, I've gone ahead and bought the R7 with the 100-500mm. I've used your advice on manual with auto ISO. I've had no problem with focusing until I visited my local RSPB site. I noticed a small wader close to edge of the water. When I tried to focus on it, the focus wouldn't shift from the moving water. Slightly frustrating, but my hit rate made up for it. Also, you've got me using back button focus, and I'm loving it. A big thanks. Keep safe and keep doing the vids. 👍👍
Dave
I definitely have that problem with the r7. I watched a video from Wild Alaska and he talked about the issue as well. His thought is to release the focus button as soon as you see it land on what you want in focus, like the bird's eye, then fire away so the camera is not continuously trying to find focus. That trick definitely helped with my keeper rate.
What if the subject moves though?!
Not useful with moving subjects. I shoot sports... my subjects move 99% of the time. I have to track AF while shooting.
Same issues with my R7 & RF 100-500. I spent 3 months thinking it was operator error. I read articles and watched several videos and finally did tests on my own after which I concluded it was the camera. Contacted Canon and sent the camera in, they told me the sensor had been out of alignment. I got it back and had the same issues, so contacting Canon again they said send it in with the RF100-500 lens for calibration. I did and it did help quite a bit, but I still experience some of these issues. I've made multiple adjustments and reduced these issues a bit more, but have decided that at the price of roughly $1500 USD, that these are just the limitations of this camera. I've learned eye autofocus works best if subject is relatively close, and I understand eye autofocus effectiveness drops off with distance. So I've learned to just go back spot focus with no tracking in some cases and I get better results. I'm a bit frustrated with these limitations, but for the price and the fact that I am able to get many great shots, I still like a lot of things about this camera. But it would be nice if Canon sees this video and all the comments and comes up with a firmware update to fix this. Thanks for making this video.
Hi. Have you uploaded the 1.4.0 firmware for your R7?
It's solved my R7 focusing issues.
I had the same problem with my R6 and found out it had to do with the dual back button "Eye AF" focus button. It seems that when I pressed this button (button linked toe "Eye AF"), and pressed and hold the shutter button, the focus was (sometimes) switching between "Eye AF" and the currently selected focus method (in my case, the selected focus method was "Spot AF", and the focus point was set to a different part of the frame than where the subject's eyes were). I don't use the separate "Eye AF" button anymore, so I don't have this problem anymore. I now use 1 button to switch between the different AF modes and another button to focus. It's a bit slower, but it works.
I have observed something similar, but with a different camera. For me it only happens when I combine a high pixel density sensor with a rather slow lens (f6.3 in my case) and shoot in lower light levels. Since mirrorless cameras use the sensor pixels for AF, when these pixels get smaller and they don't get enough light, the noise starts to affect autofocus accuracy, especially when the angle of the incoming light, which is used for phase detection AF, is narrower (which is the case with smaller apertures). That's my explanation why the focus keeps shifting a little bit in those kinds of situations. On cameras with really small pixels, like the R7, this effect would be worse than on a camera with larger pixels, like the A7IV. The solutions for this is to use a faster aperture lens or a camera with larger pixels or use contrast AF. Can't do much about the light levels outdoors. That's what I observed, so I 'd say it's not an error of the camera, but it comes with the system and its parameters. Hope this was understandable.
Thanks for your careful review of a problem I would also find frustrating. My primary camera is an R7 with RF 100-500, almost exclusively for birding. In the past 8 months with this setup, I haven't seen this problem, ever since I replaced my Sigma 150-600C, which did suffer from AF pulsing. I shoot at 15 fps with the electronic shutter, as I don't like sorting the output from 30 fps. I also shoot wide open with eye-tracking on, single point AF, and AF mode set to "sticky".
Since my keeper rate tends to be lower in low light, I can't help but wonder if your AF is struggling with low light and high fps, where the AF may not be able to keep up. Afterall, servo AF mode is supposed to newly acquire focus with each frame, and I could easily see how that might lead to pulsing, especially in suboptimal light or when a focus zone that is large relative to the bird's head confuses the AF.
Keep up the good work.
Taking photos with the R7 can be like celebrating a goal in football, knowing that VAR could come and steal it from you at any moment! The amount of times I've gone through the euphoria of capturing some lovely photos, only to find that what appeared to be fine on the back of the camera, was a missed AF point and lie! It's a brilliant camera and this APSC would rival the best full frame DSLR of yester-year, but it's not without it's flaws.
Love the VAR analogy, especially at the moment!
Thanks for sharing this video...I am also facing the same issues and am frustrated
I have auto focus issues with my R5 in this same fashion. What I've found is that the auto focus system (when using eye auto focus) is not that reliable. It's completely unfortunate but I'm glad people are starting to talk about it because a lot of the canon you tubers out there have been selling us all on how amazing the auto focus system is. I've started just using single point focus (switching back and forth with the animal/people tracking). Let us know if you find a solution. P.S. I am using the same lens (RF 100-500).
Totally agree with you, my R5 was a total disappointment and I think it was hyped too much by the internet. The reality for me was actually quite a shock, considering the amount I paid for the camera. AF misfiring all too often.
I know I say this in every comment I make on your videos, but they are just so enjoyable and educational to watch. The sincere joy and enthusiasm you have and share with us is appreciated beyond measure. And that you provide this forum for us to better understand how the use our equipment to the best of its ability and problem solve when things aren’t going right is outstanding.
Now that said, I wanted to add a bit to the dialogue with one more possible help towards resolution. I won’t say solution for it, but it has helped me.
I am using an R5 with the RF 100-400 most of the time (decided to wait for another Zoom lens from Canon, like maybe 200-600 with 1.4x built in, which is probably permanently in my dreams). I also have have had some of these same issues. And I think the problem is a combination of connectivity, speed and the battery. I do notice if I am using an RF extender , or adapter with my EF lens, this jumpiness and misfocusing issue seems to be more frequent. So I think they slow the speed of IBIS/AF communication a bit and we get photos taken before the camera has had the chance to fully refocus. I’ve wondered if the battery contributes to this. It seems to me that the battery works faster if it’s 50% or more charged, (and it of course depletes more rapidly after 50%). So, I tend to change the battery more frequently. Seems to help. Finally, and this is worth trying first, I use only Canon batteries from Canon in my R5. Other 3rd party batteries approved for and made for Canon were causing me many issues including camera freezing and slower speed for everything to communicate. When I used the Canon battery that came with my camera (Canon is embossed on the black casing and it has the Canon holographic label) everything was fine. So when these were finally again in inventory on the Canon site, I ordered a couple more and have had no grief since. The other third party batteries I had were fine and work great in my 5D Mark IV. Sometime ago Jan and Glenn were having trouble with R5 freezing up in the field too and I commented about the battery discovery. They thought there is probably some difference in the connectors/sensor between the battery makers that could be causing the issue.
Some time ago I just resolved that after every firmware update I do I totally reset my camera. This has helped, and it makes me rethink why I have the settings as I do and if they are still relevant. Sometimes a setting has caused me to have less optimal photos.
Sorry for the long comment but hopefully, maybe helpful to folks for all their RF cameras.
Thanks for this. Sounds feasible. The new tech may need constant fully charged batteries to operate, which of course is not possible. (I have the problem with the R5 RF 100-400.) Jan and Glenn talked about more expensive batteries but I can't remember which video it was. Edit: maybe walk around with it plugged into a battery bank :)
What I have come to understand about lithium ion batteries is that their optimal operating range is between 40-80% charged. Fully charged or running down to discharge shortens the battery life and accelerate the time to the next needed charge. So they do require cycled maintenance. I often feel like I spend a lot of time tethered to chargers and cords too. These batteries can also catch fire and explode unexpectedly if overcharged or left plugged in, or exposed to extreme temperatures so I treat them with caution. I wonder if this will also be true for the sodium batteries that are being developed.
Duade, SO glad you have addressed the R7's image blur issue more in-depth. I bought my R7 about 3-4 months ago and have been using it steadily since for a mix of bird and general use photography. I've experienced the exact same issues you've detailed, i.e. even at a very fast shutter speed and with the focus indicator directly over the eye of the bird, a good number of a burst of images will be soft but others will be sharp. This issue occurs for me with stationary subjects like when doing flower Macro shots. Trying to remedy this, I've given up on the mechanical shutter. That clearly made it worse. But it seems to be occurring with both EFC and full-electronic shutter modes. I'm using it with the ef 100-400 L IS Vers. ii, a lens I've had for many years and was always happy with for its sharpness and image quality.
And just to highlight as some other commenters have, within a week of using it the camera began freezing up its operations. Shutting it off and restarting it didn't remedy it. I'd have to remove the battery and start up again. But the problem could arise again within minutes of use. I contacted Canon USA and was advised to return it. They assessed the problem to be in the "motherboard", said they replaced that, and returned it to me. That has remedied the freezing up but not the focus issues. I've had no such problems with my Canon R6, or a Nikon Z50. Given how many R7 owners have responded to your video in so short a time, noting the same problem, it seems very hard to imagine there isn't some issue at play here that Canon hasn't acknowledged, at least not yet. I'd encourage all commenters to also write their respective country's Canon office to report and detail this issue, so they are put on record about this. I've owned and used many Canons over the years and I've never been frustrated by a Canon camera until this one. If Canon were to provide a 'Buy Back' option I'd avail of it in a heartbeat. I looked into selling it to KEH (a very large used gear buyer/seller here in the US). Even just a few months old and rated at "near new" condition, their offer price was only $900 - very low for a camera that I paid $1,500 for just 3 months earlier. This leads me to think more than usual numbers of people are selling them off and there isn't much demand for them second hand. Best regards, Craig
Interesting that you found mechanical shutter worse. I wonder if part of the issue could be shutter shock. It's a very noisy shutter, which is what caused me to mostly give up on mechanical shutter when shooting birds that spook easily. I saw a video recently (can't remember who did it) on TH-cam about that very issue. He strongly recommended electronic shutter for that very reason, occasional warping be darned.
Not sure 900.00 is a low offer. They would be reselling it and have to make a profit. Probably resell it at 1200.00 or more. I am very happy with mine overall. It has its flukes, but takes incredibly detailed and sharp images when it hits, and it hits more and more the longer I shoot with it. As someone pointed out, the pixel density is extremely high, something like 80 mpx. equivalent in a full frame camera. That's almost twice the density of the R5! With that amount of detail even the slightest imperfections are going to show. I have gotten shots with this camera that would have been impossible with my R6, 7d ii or 1d iv.
That is really frustrating problem. I have same focus issue with R6. It's the worst with EF-RF adapter + Tamron 150-600 G2
Yes it's much better on the 800 f11 and RF 100-400 but still somewhat noticeable. They don't "pulse" as much but the 800 f11 just sometimes falls behind in grabbing focus while the RF 100-400 inexplicably jumps out of focus and not having a focus limiter makes it difficult re-acquiring focus.
Hi Duade: Thanks for the video, it made me review the images from Kenya, and missed shots. One of which would have been what I would consider a lifetime shot, a cheetah in a chase, with all legs up against the body. I found I have the same issue. The R7 was paired with the RF70-200 F2.8 wide open. Shooting ISO 125, and 1/3200. So lots of light and speed. Many were out of focus, even though the focus box was on the subject. Which was highly disappointing. I recently traded the R7 and my R6, for a second R5. Yes there is cost, but when you consider the cost of the trips, not really that much. I will use the in body crop, and have used your tip, about programming a button to quickly change C modes. Keep up the good work,
Hi Duade, a common problem for me also. Mostly I use a RF100-500 and to a lesser extent an RF 800. It’s so frustrating when the focus point is on the eye but the subject is out of focus, oof focus images are common during a burst even in perfect light and high shutter speeds. I get marginally better results using a tripod with IS turned off on the lens. I used to get a better keeper rate on flight shots with my 7dll.
My wife uses an R5 with the same setup that produces better results but it lacks the reach. When I borrow her camera my keeper rate increases dramatically.
I enjoy your videos very much thank you for your time and effort.
Great video and glad I’m not the only one. The RF system is so incredible otherwise, that I’ve been dealing with it/trying work arounds. Note: I see this on R6s and sometimes (but less) on R5. If it’s helpful to anyone else:
- BBF is a must
- recently been toggling oneshot/Servo via programmed button - servo only when needed.
- have turned down the AF settings to slowest/least responsive. Still locks on to things super quick.
- when using IS/IBIS, honestly I can just bank on the first 4-5 shots being slightly soft. Images 6-10 are exactly what I want. I think the IBIS system just takes a moment to settle unfortunately. This aligns with what ^ he says about 1/2 way thru video.
- jury still out on mech vs elec shutter. Sometimes elec is consistently sharper, and sometimes I can’t use it due to LEDs. On mech shutter, I do feel like I see a slightly higher percentage of softies, guessing it’s a bit of shutter impact. 🤷♂️
While this may sound like a lot, I’ve gotten used to it and am continuing to get phenomenal extremely low light shots that would have never been possible with my 5D4/6D2/7D2 etc. being able to confidently shoot iso 25600/51200 and follow up with about 30% AI denoise in LR, regardless of all this AF drama, I couldn’t be happier. It’s certainly an odd relationship with these mirrorless cameras, but it’s the way it is, and after a handful of heartbreak images, I feel I’ve personally found the sweet spot-ish.
In a sentence, slow down the AF responsiveness and (unfortunately) overshoot a bit, and you’ll end up remarkable shot.
Exactly this behaviour made me buy a Nikon Z8 + 180-600mm to replace my Fujifilm X-H2.
While these sorts of complaints are nothing new when it comes to fuji, I'm kind of surprised hearing this about Canon cameras. No idea if that makes sense, but maybe it has got something to do with the insane pixel density these cameras have, or as you said, slow readout speed. This really does look 1:1 like what I've been facing with the X-H2.
Same problem with my R7 too. I stopped using the electronic shutter as a result, but the problem persists albeit to a lesser extent. I also find it difficult to keep the subject within the bounds of the EVF when panning with fast subjects using slow shutter speeds. I have had to go back to using my trusty 5DMkIV for those shots. At first I thought it was my Sigma lens and communication with the camera as it is not an RF mount lens, but to see you experiencing that same problem with a Canon RF lens is at least a relief for me on the lens front. I have to use way too much sharpening in Adobe Camera RAW for images from the R7 compared with the 5DMkIV.
I have it only to use it in bright day light, I taught it was my fault, but I am happy you share this video, I am now relaxed that it us really issue of R7, So now I use generally R6 and really happy. R7 is such a good camera, but in Canon style, they just make it so bad so we buy more expensive models...
Wow. Excellent shots with Canon R7. Canon R7 had some issues related to IBIS as well which connect lens IS.
There's a couple of autofocus issues I've noticed much more on mirrorless cameras than on DSLRs.
The first I've experienced on every camera I've had so far, including my current Z9, and that's that the AF points are too large for the area it's trying to focus on. For example, the AF picks out the eye, but the AF point covers the eye and the area around the eye, so the camera focuses on the closest part - which is likely the cheek below the eye. This also causes issues when the subject is small in the frame and causes a lot of cameras to drop to the background (I've had this on the OM-1, X-H2S, and Z9). It might be that the actual AF points on the R7 are larger than the UI shows, and it's shifting to other areas of the point.
The second _might_ be what's happening here, which is that the camera is using contrast-detect to confirm the AF (lots of cameras use a combination of contrast-detect and phase-detect), and is pulsing the focus back and forth to confirm focus. Panasonic in particular were infamous for this before they released the S5II, as they relied entirely on their Depth by Defocus system, which unfortunately resulted in constant focus pulsing in video in particular. I believe some manufacturers use CDAF when in single-shot mode and PDAF in burst, or alternatively PDAF for fast movement to the subject then CDAF for confirmation. However I don't know enough about the Canon setup to say what system they use 🤔
My issue with R7 was actually how I found your channel initially and after following your original recommendations, I fixed my focus issues. BUT... given that it has been quite some time and I took a whole bunch of photos since... in my opinion... that camera is meant to be in semi automatic mode rather than manual. Once I shifted it to semi auto (tweaking settings obviously)... I get sharp images by the truck load. When I shift it to full manual or full auto.. that is when I get AF issues. Shrugs. I found me a setting that works for me but honestly between canon 70d where I did not even have to think about nothing vs this camera... something clearly is a miss. I have your canon review reply video next in my queue so I hope they told you something we can all learn from.
Like everyone said before, same issues with my R7 with the 100-500. Just hope an update can help with the issue and not a R7 MKii.
Hi! Unfortunately, you're not the only one that experienced this problem with the R7. Last weekend, I was working as a volunteer photographer at a triathlon and I was taking pictures of cyclists in action. I was using the slowest bust mode with electronic shutter at 1/2000 sec. I've never had so many out-of-focus shots before, but it was my first experience with fast moving subjects. I usually shot portraits or items in my studio. I used Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 G2 EF with the adaptor on my R7. I was lucky enough to have a few good shots of every cyclist. I hope this issue wil get resolved with a future firmware update.
The R7 has focusing issues. There is a massive amount of evidence to be found on youtube. One French compared it to the R5 and R6 and found the R7 to be quite abysmal in comparison for wildlife. I use the R7 with the kit RF-S 18-150 on vacation and for wildlife my keeper rate is about 10%. I have not yet tried to find out what helps. Turning IBIS off might be a good suggestion I saw elsewhere on this thread, R5 and R6 both have IBIS but not the issues... so I'll have to see. I'll let you know if I find out.
I also have the RF 100-400 - based the buying decision on your glowing review of it - and with focusing it is even worse. For buying the RF 100-400 I traded in my old EF 70-300. The RF 100-400 is significantly better optically, but autofocus was to my dismay much better with the old (slower) lens. At one point I was testing it pointing it at a display cabinet with lenses on the shelf, 6 meters away from it, zoomed all in. The EF 70-300 was much sharper on the displayed lenses, I was amazed. Then I found out the RF 100-400 had been focusing ... on the dust of the glass door of the display cabinet! I thought it was a fluke, went back and switched the EF 70-300 plus some money for the RF 100-400. Now I know these focusing issues are a consistent problem. Maybe the 32.5 Mpix sensor is just too much and it focuses on stuff the RF 100-400 can see but the EF 70-300 was not able to resolve. On my 40D the old EF 70-300 was fine. But that body was 10 Mpix. The R7 is just sooo demanding I think we and Canon still need to learn about it.
By the way: I compared the RF 100 - 400 to the RF-S 18 - 150 on the R7 using an ISO resolution chart. The RF-S has the better resolution! I no longer feel so good about my decision to buy the RF 100-400. But currently there are not so many affordable alternatives. I'd like Canon to make a tack sharp RF-S 150 - 500 for 1500€.
I've had the R7 pretty much since it came out. along with the R5, it's in use all the time. I've just returned from a trip to photograph grizzlies with both cameras. Your video made me go back and review my shots with DPP to look at the focus points. the bears were dark and with dark brown eyes so there were a few times where the focus on the R7 with the 100-500mm would miss the eye but grab the head, which is understandable. On the whole the R7did very well even with the 800mm F11 and shooting from a boat as well. The R5 is my main shooter and it's great, the R7 is a backup, the rolling shutter can be annoying but as a whole the camera has been great for me, I must have lucked out.
The R7 combined with the RF100-500mm is my goto camera since last year and I got a lot of auto focus issues like you mention (along with the darn focusing a branch that is not even in my reticle). With wild animals, especially for birds about to take off, it's just not able to stay on the bird (big birds) no matter what it just 'unhook' it acquisition and lost the focus, just like in your examples. And it doesn't stop there, it is quite often completely disengage from the target even if it barely move. And like you I changed the autofocus to be as sticky as much as possible with no noticeable results, and I tried different autofocus area to spot to large area with and without tracking, and no eye tracking.
My theory is the sensor is just too small to be effective in variant lighting condition and busy backgrounds, and since the RF100-500mm has it aperture minimum to f7.1 fully extent, the background is less blurry making the acquisition harder for a such device to let it decide with the contrasts what is the subject and what not. I've talked to people with R5 who go out with me for bird photography and they don't seem to have any autofocus issues as me. I've been thinking to sell my R7 and go with a R5 body since I notified this issue and it feels now I am getting more annoyed by it now than I was when I just purchased it, at the time I felt it was more snappier.
Yes, I experience the same issues and agree with your theory. I recently went from the RF 100-400 to the RF 100-500mm and the various autofocus problems are incredibly frustrating. I’m planning on getting rid of it too-these issues take the joy out of birding photography.
@@Goodkarenmostly Since Duade tested his R7 on a faster lens (the new 100-300 F2.8), it debunk my theory. The issue seems now solely on the R7 body no matter how fast the lens is. Now only hoping that Canon will acknowledge this and release a firmware to fix this issue.
Definitely happens to me, using the RF 100-400 lens. I've even had occasions where the focus doesn't come back to the bird, just stays on the background even though the focus point remains on the bird. I lost some great shots of an Osprey leaving it's perch and flying past me a couple of weeks ago due to this problem.
Yup, same here, very annoying. As if the autofocus is freezed.
yep, I've had that as well with the RF100-400. I feel like I'm fighting with it sometimes and panic because I might miss the shot.@@lv9084
Thanks for sharing! I've been using R7 with RF 35 1.8 for about a month and noticed in photos that I was 1000% sure that the focus point was on the person I was shooting (varying f4-f9 on different occasions) was totally off when browsing the pics in LR. Examples from urban environment mainly. I'm considering if it could be a lens calibration issue (added UV filter directly after purchase). Also there was a day (suspecting due to high humidity) that the camera felt overheating and turned black while it was on, without any button or function being responsive. Only after shutting it off and getting the battery out came back to life. I got pretty worried but haven't occurred a 2nd time so far. Upgraded from a Nikon d5500 which have been using with same focal length/settings for 7 years without issues.
Hi, I have the same problem on this camera in photo mode, but imagine there are no problems in video mode, autofocus is just great.
Interesting. Lots of focus issues also with the 90D. Michael the Maven has a few videos about it, something to do with the high MP and the smaller APS-C sensor, though i don't know if something similar would apply here. I'm still shooting with my 90D and the focus issue is frustrating. I had been looking at the R7 for when I finally upgraded, but, frankly, I'm so over these focus issues.
I was just planning to purchase R7 this week. This surely saved my money.. Thanks this really does effect my work as I was planning to keep R7 to capture only action, mostly sports. Thankyou for this review. Much needed and i wonder how this information was kept away from users so far.. i have been researching enough before i made decision to purchase and i guess most reviewers only focus on the video part and daily life clicks for the purpose of reviewing. This is an actual field test of a user and so accurate about the practical problems we face on field.
I've experienced this with my R3, possibly not as often as your telling us. I had a Leopard in a tree while on a safari, the frame wasn't even that busy but the focus kept sticking to the nearest branch with the focus point sitting on the Leopard. Bad enough for me to notice it just zooming in on the LCD screen. I switched over to ONE SHOT with single point focus so the focus didn't move, which worked. I know that might not be very practical for small birds. I tend to think it's just the short fall of mirrorless AF technology, it does amazing at tracking moving subjects but it doesn't always stick to still subjects in certain situations.
Hi Duade. Thank you for this. Adding my voice to the mix. I have had the same issues. I’d say only about 50% of my shots are acceptably sharp despite confirmation of focus in various AF modes. Very dissapointing. I’m chalking this up to a non-intentional canon cripple hammer. I suspect the hardware choices Canon had to make to hit the body’s low price point is the root cause. Sadly, I think Canon has not met the expectations of it’s serious APS-C enthusiasts; those that previously shot with the 7D series bodies. I think Canon made a mistake by trying to appease both xxD and xD APS-C shooters with a dual-use body when they should have offered 2 separate bodies… The R7 is, in my opinion, more of a xxD replacement than a xD replacement. My impression is that xxD shooters are quite pleased with the R7, while 7D/7Dm2 shooters, whose expectations are higher, have been left frustrated and disappointed. Personally, I’d have preferred the R7 to have been a proper 7Dm2 replacement with either an R5 or R6 pro-style body, with a faster sensor read-out, much high quality mechanical shutter, and a larger / higher-res EVF, for a price more akin to Fuji’s X-H2s (on the assumption that a Pro R7 body would have similar AF performance to the R5/R6 bodies). As well, in addition to the R7’s focus problems, I’m also suffering many inadvertent button press problems due to the poor placement of the thumb-rest buttons when reaching for buttons/scroll-wheel near the shutter release. Combined, many inadvertent button presses along with sub-par focus performance, have left me very frustrated. Again, it’s hard to fault the camera body for it’s price point, but I will fault Canon for not offering a proper Pro APS-C body replacement given their misleading communications; suggesting the R7 as a 7D/7Dm2 replacement. Hope they get this resolved with a proper “pro” R7 Mark 2 soon!
Oh gosh! I've done so much research over the last weeks and been dithering back and forth about which camera to buy and finally today went and purchased the R7 with rf 100-400 mm lens....and now I've found this video and all these comments 🥺
I still work with my hummble Canon 80D XD and it has these problems. I was coming to do a little research on the R7 to see if maybe I could do the upgrade....
Sigh.... Once again Canon disappoints.
I keep repeating throughout the video.... His property 😂
Some of us out here struggling while this guy does photography for fun on "His property".
Different worlds I guess.
Very nice video. I liked the energy and enthusiasm.
Very informative.
I have to admit now you have pointed it out yes I get this,lets just hope canon are watching this and get some updates out
Hi Duade, I'm pleased you've made this video because i'm experiencing the same issues and have basically stopped using the R7 body for anything.
Hi Duade. Long time listener, first time caller. I've been having this exact issue (and many others) with my R5, and it's been going on for the entire time I've owned it. I've used Canon's RF lenses, Canon's EF lenses with the adapter, and third party EF lenses (Sigma & Tamron) with the adapter. I've tried the various shooting modes, higher shutter speeds, brighter lighting, and everything else you mentioned. It doesn't matter. There's something "broken" with Canon's mirrorless ecosystem and their auto-focus. When I talk to the local Canon reps at the local camera stores in my area they don't acknowledge the issue - even when I'm showing them the photos with the focus points displayed. I've been shooting with Canon for a long time, but I've missed too many shots with my R5, so I've decided it's time to switch. Thanks for your great videos and your amazing photos!
What did you switch to?
@@nk-oi3oo - I haven't made my switch yet. I'm going to wait until the spring, and nicer weather here in the Seattle, WA area. I'm hoping some new camera models will be announced this spring as well. Right now I'm leaning towards getting the OM-1 from OM Systems.
@@wradinJDK I had same issue where my R5 was causing focus issue. I clicked few pictures and wasn’t impressed and returned it immediately. Only reason i am not going for OM 1 is cause of micro 4/3.
I was waiting till see if nikon will come with some new model with updated auto focus system. Or maybe save some money and buy z8.
Hi Duade - as so many others making comments here, I have also experienced the same thing. I have a R7 and a R5 together with RF 100-500 and it's much more of a problem with the R7.This was an eye opener - not just me having problems - not just me not being on "speaking terms" with my camera.
Thanks for addressing this issue. I’m new to both Canon and mirrorless, so it has been difficult to sort out what is a camera problem vs the learning curve. I have been disappointed that my Nikon D7500 images are more reliably sharp than the R7 with the RF 100-500, even though the weight reduction makes it easier to hold. Taking more shots helps, but it shouldn’t be so inconsistent. I hope you will get Canon’s attention to help explain/ fix this problem.
I have the Nikon d7500 as well. Wondering if you have a zoom lens you prefer to use with it?
@@karengreene4476 I have the Nikon 200-500 f 5.6, which is great but weighs 5 lb.
@@sandramcquain8715 I'm using the Sigma 150-600mm but my images lack the sharpness Id like.
@@sandramcquain8715 I feel your pain! Thanks for your reply.
Nice image of the Eastern Yellow Robin. I'm not a fan of selective color, though.
I am a canon shooter for at least 20 years and I currently use an R3,R5 and I thought the R7 would fit in nicely with its crop censor . I have it since it’s initial release and regret buying it ever since. I can forgive the buffer, the shutter roll at this price point but the auto focus and shutter noise I cannot forgive these issues. I mainly shoot field sports,equestrian and wildlife,I also use my older 1dxii and with the exception of reviewing images in the evf it is still a favourite to shoot with. I am also glad that I am not the only one having these issues.
Hi Duade, I have the exact same issue. At first I thought it was because I was adapting an EF lens, but I'm getting the same problem with my new RF 100-400mm. I'm still getting plenty of sharp keepers, but when I miss the perfect pose in a burst it's a real pain. I wish Canon would sort it out.
I have these issues with the R7 and every experienced wildlife photographer, that I have spoken to, is having the same issues. Unfortunately the R7 has come out a bit half baked, and it’s not being supported by Canon. The camera has a number of issues, which could likely be fixed with firmware. BTW, the R7 does this with people, at even medium distances too.
Hello Duade, i have the Canon R7 and I love it. I also have the R6, 7D Mkii, and other bodies. The focusing issue I do have, but I only notice it on high speed continuous shutter. Your theory might be correct. With that said, I decided to pick up the R7, and put the R6 down. I haven't picked up the R6 since. The R7 in combo with the RF 100-500, and the RF 800 F11. I do very well for the price. Love It!
Thank you for a great and honest video... I love your videos... I have shot 35000+ pictures with mine.... the Autofocus will work better if you use spot metering or partial spot.... also use manual focus to prefocus if you have time... love you my brother, keep up the good work...
Hi Duade, I remember a TH-cam video that suggested that the autofocus problem became evident after the installation of the latest firmware. The fix was to do a complete factory reset after the firmware update, and then re-install your preferred settings and button and dial configurations. I never bothered with the latest firmware update and have not noticed any significant autofocus issues.
I almost never do firmware updates unless they add significant new features. It seems that most updates just "fix" what was screwed up by the last update.
I have the problem described with the never updated firmware from a day 1 purchase.
+
I have been having the same issues with my R7 and EF 100-400 L . I have tried everything as well and now use : 1st curtain mechanical shutter, no in camera stabilization and take lots of shots !
I have the same problem with the R7. Half are usable because of soft focus. No problem with the R5 or R6ii
I've had this issue occasionally with the R5 in high-speed burst. I shoot landscape more often than birds, so it's less notable for me. For stills I prefer mechanical or first-curtain ES because full ES rolls too much. Back-focus is mainly an issue in iffy light.
My R6, which I use mainly for video, also wanders off my face occasionally in low light. In bright light, there's no issue.
Did you ever figure out you autofocus problems? If not and you haven't tried this, give this a try. I found about this from another TH-camr who was having same problem and so he talked with Canon tech and this is what they told them to do and it worked. It fixed pretty much most of his autofocus problems, but this camera will never perform like R5, R6 II or R3. But you already know that. But your problems seemed excessive, because mine camera was never that bad. Make sure have most recent firmware, then you need to go in and reset all of your camera settings Basic & Other settings. Then after that turn your camera off and pull out battery, count to about 30 then put battery back in. Then you will have to renter all your settings again (I know it is a pain, but I know the more I have done that, the better I know all menu and camera settings on it). Give it a try if your still having issues.. Happy shooting. BTW I love your video's, your one of my most watched TH-camrs along with Jan.
Thank you so much for making this video. I've been experiencing focus shifting and was wondering if it was my camera, my lens, my technique or a combination there of.
I have pretty much eliminated the camera shakes for the same reasons you mentioned, but I was left struggling to make sense of this issue. You're probably on to something when you compare the speed of the sensor of the R7 with that of the sensor on the R5...
This situation is extremely frustrating, had I known this before I might have gone with a different camera system...
Cheers,
Same problem with the R5 with Canon 600 F4 IS and Sigma 500 F4 Sport. I always thought it was an adapter problem even if I don't understand why. The focus, the point is on the subject but focuses behind or in front.
Definitely happening to me (R7 with RF 100-500) it also happened a bit when using my EF 300mm f/4. So I switched to exclusively electronic shutter and started just firing away.
My suspicion is the IBIS is what’s causing the issue. The IBIS on the sensor moving in and out just ever so slightly might be causing this. Might also explain why the focus indicator box is in the wrong place. I wonder in that split second the AF and the IBIS aren’t talking to each other.
I don’t think there’s a way to disable IBIS though to see if that’s issue. Could turn all IS from the lens off and work completely from tripod to see if it happens versus handheld. Will try it out on my next outing.
I recommend sending this entire comment section to Canon. Perhaps they can come up with a firmware correction, or suggest AF settings where this doesn't happen?
Let me add my two and a half cents worth. I never, ever do a firmware upgrade unless I have an issue that I can't live with. For most of my computers, not all, I will not even upgrade the operating system. I mostly shoot video and my 4K Canon that is maybe 15 years old has never had a firmware upgrade. I usually have more problems with upgrades and shun them like the plague. Just because it says it's a factory reset doesn't mean it's an actual factory reset. Just my thoughts. I would like to hear from others. Good video.
Same here. Happens almost every time. However, there usually is a shot in there which is perfect. But I agree it can be very annoying. What is also does sometimes is freeze when I try to focus. There is a bird, I’m trying to focus on it and it just stops working. When I pick another place to focus it will start focusing again. Fortunately, this is much less frequent.
Had this happen once or twice. Not a big issue, but it's like the viewfinder will freeze, like it took a picture and I am reviewing it, even though I didn't touch the shutter button. I have had to remove the battery to resolve it. As I said, it's only happened at most twice in thousands and thousands of shots, so not concerned with it.
Thanks, yes, that is the paradox, when it hits its fantastic, I have many wonderful shots and the detail is great. I just wish it didn't have this shifting issue. Cheers, Duade
YES! I do have the same problem as you describe here. What saddens me is that I tried to discuss this on Canon forums/fb groups and people (fanboys of Canon and "professionals") blame the user... and do not even consider talking about the fact that the camera body R7 might have this issue. I prefer using R6 + RF 100-500 instead the R7 ... R7 AF dissappointed me so many times, I don't want the hassle.
I thought I was going crazy! I bought and returned mine because I had more soft shots that in focus ones. I thought I had a defective model.
Strange. I'm using the R7 and the RF100-400 and it seems fine, the only AF issues I've had is our gloomy Irish skies confusing the AF but I've been getting pretty consistent AF while shooting handheld with IS.
I was using the Tamron 150-600 G2 before that and had a lot of problems with softness or missed shots due to back-focusing, even after updating the lense's firmware, but the RF lens has been a step up for me.
Don't get me wrong, not every single shot is perfect but it's definitely an improvement for me and after owning a Sony A7iii with both the 100-400 and 150-600 Sigma DG DN lenses, a Fuji XT-4 with the 100-400 Fuji, a Nikon D500 with a Sigma 150-600mm; I have to say that the canon R7 with the modestly apertured RF100-400 is the most user-friendly and reliable combo I've used and I've sacrificed 200mm of reach and a full stop for that kind of usability. The ease of overriding the AF in difficult lighting with that lens is also a big bonus and it helped me get shots of a sleeping fox in some very difficult conditions that would make any AF system struggle
I have exactly the same issue with my r7 with the EF 100-400 II. I always have to take many sequences and refocus because even if the focus point is where it should be, random pics are (slightly) out of focus and much less sharp. I had exactly the same issue with the 90d, it was even worse, so I though it was a problem with the lens, but apparently not now that I see your video
Anyway, thanks for your channel, I love it.
Greetings from France
Frederic
I've had the same problem, since day 1 with the R7. It happens even with stationary birds , few good shots then random out of focus ones, with viewfinder showing that focus is staying on the eye. Neither I or the bird is moving, no reason for focus to change. I've called Canon about it, didnt getanywhere, i think more people need to call then maybe we can get a firmware update to correct the problem. I've brought this up on different forums also, mostly get the usual, people telling me I don't understand R7 settings, or it's heat haze etc.. others say the R7 is their best focussing camera. I think it depends how you shoot, I always shoot close up with a 500 f4 II so changes in focus are quickly apparent. If someone shoots farther away with higher apertures it won't be as noticeable. I did reset my camera settings with it seeming to help some, but only had one outing with it. If the problem comes back up I will try turning exposure Sim off but really like that feature.
Yes me too. My camera also has an issue with in-body recharging through the USB port, so will be heading back to Canon for repair. I am also planning to get them to test the AF as I am getting a ridiculous number of soft shots. However, seeing these comments I’m starting to think that they won’t be able to help.
Happens to me too. Seems to happen a lot less with the R5. I also noticed the colors are sometimes washed out with some frames in a burst, even at the same ISO as the previous one, which looked more colorful with less noise.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Cheers, Duade
Thanks for sharing your issues with the R7 and 100-500 lens, I upgraded from a Panasonic G9 and 100-400 lens and am generally happy with the improvement in autofocus and IQ. With the R7 I have experienced issues with the autofocus, I'm finding little difference in sharpness regardless of shutter speed, but have noticed that using back button focus in short 15 frame electronic shutter bursts and frequently reacquiring focus helps, though I still only get some sharp images from each burst. Obviously I wish Canon would address this, but suspect that only a better sensor with a faster read speed will resolve the issue. The benefit of having an APSC sensor in making subjects larger in the frame with a relatively lightweight system remain, but the autofocus system needs some work.
Similar experience here. I just shot a few short bursts of a thrush on the trail and got less than 1/2 in sharp focus even though the r7 was showing eye detect focus lock. The light was poor and I think that is a significant contributor to the problem. Although it will sometimes miss in good light. Same issue with either 100-500 or 600 f4. My r5 yields a much better keeper rate. I still like the high density crop sensor it produces some nice images when I can get it to focus. Cheers
This has been documented by a number of R7 users including myself. Especially when we are talking about throwing 1/8000 shots for me with planes and I’m getting soft shots. Back and front focusing is a problem with some R7’s and seems to be only with super telephoto lenses like 100-400 or your 100-500
I had similar issues with the 90D and I put it down to myself, but I do think its this 32mp cropped sensor, especially if a mirrorless camera is struggling with it now too. Issues that I never experienced on the 7D2 or either of the other cameras I've used.
queue torrents of people saying "up the shutter speed" I'm at 1/4000th, how much faster does it need to be???
Same here with my ef 70-200 f2.8 non IS first Gen.
Have you got the viewfinder on exposure simulation? If yes, your light was quite lacking in contrast and that may have reduced the autofocus capability of the camera. In Germany we often have this kind of light and since I turned off the exposure simulation the keeper rate increased significantly. Oh, and color key never works :(
Edit: The EXIF information regarding the AF point only gets updated on internal "focus confirmation", thus as long as the camera hunts the stored focus point remains the last known confirmed focus point. What you can run into is repeating patterns (feathers) throwing off the autofocus calculations (based on a possible phase difference). IMHO it really is the lack of contrast that is making life hard for the autofocus - as mentioned in my first version of this comment set the viewfinder display to quite bright and disable the exposure simulation, that wil give the camera a much better base for the autofocus calculations.
Disable exposure simulation huh? I'll give it a shot.
Interesting. However, we shouldn't have to disable what is arguably one of the top features of mirrorless cameras just to make the autofocus work. Also, I have shot bald eagles against a dark background and had the same issues. Can't get much more contrast than that!
@@alansach8437 It's a target conflict - you need bright, contrasty image capture for autofocus purposes and want benign, less contrasty captures to preserve detail...
@@rockymanilow5115 On the R7 you have the ability to have the EVF act as if it were an OVF (Menu Red 9-2). That did the trick and increased my hit rate enormously...
I have the same problem with 100-500 lens,if i shoot stationary birds i always choose spot af and no eye detection!
Well this confirms what I thought of this camera , I’ve tried many times to make use of the R7 usually when I need a bit more focal length but I always go back to the reliable R5 , there is a few reasons I don’t like the R7 including the ergonomics , it will remain my back up body . Let’s hope it’s a software issue that Canon might address and then I might make the effort to get around the unusual control layout .
This is exactly what my Sony A7R IV would do, 1 or 2 shots sharp out of 10. I accepted this compromise to have 61 megapixels. I think your right though, the autofocus software and processor is quick, but the sensor isn't fast enough to keep up. Thankfully I upgraded to the A1 and now I find bursts of 10 with every shot sharp.
Hey Duade, R7 with Sigma 150-600 through RF adaptor. I also have a very high discard rate and agree with other comments on here that this issue becomes even more pronounced when the distance to the subject is greater, and it’s a low light/low contrast scene. I actually find that using the normal "regular" AF mode rather than the eye tracking function gives me a noticeably better keeper rate. Must be disappointing though the get the same result in broad good daylight. All the best!
I use the R7 since 7 months. I use it exclusively with the EF 100-400mm L II and extender EF 1,4x III . I am happy with it but my general opinion about the AF is that it is no better than the AF of my 'old' 7D mk II (with previously mentioned lens and extender).
I totally agree with you Duade.. Thanks for your in depth and honest reviews always.. Canon R7 is my 1st Mirrorless Crop sensor.. I had been eyeing this camera for a while due to its Mid level and couple of good specs inherited from other full frame cameras.. I bought it just last month and I can feel the heat.. I used both 18-150 and 100-500 rf lenses. Even though it appears great on the monitor, softness is evident on the computer screen... I lost many good shots of Woodpecker, Blue Heron, Racket tailed drongo and Kingfisher due to autofocus and softness... Both at low and high bursts..
Have thoughts of returning it...
Not sure if it's issue with firmware or the sensor itself...
Had used Nikon 750D earlier and was quite good
Cheers,
Ank
Thanks for sharing. I too have the same experience and thought it was just me... 😉. I've been using the R7 for half a year now with the RF 100-500 and EF 400 f2.8 II and RF 800. Have taken 40,000 shots with it, mostly from a swinghead and see what's described here. In a series of photos there are some nicely in focus but also many out of focus while the focus point was really on the eye. Frustrating indeed. I find the explanation as to the cause very plausible.
I dont seem to be having these issues with the Sigma 150-600C after Simon d'Entremont suggestions on Duade Paton's video on the Sigma pulsating issues. Perhaps I am fooling myself but happy to send you Duade a series of shots ive taken in my backyard with some Rainbow Lorikeets who visit daily.
What was that suggestion? Can You quote please? Or is it other Simon :)
@@PatrykGrzech th-cam.com/video/l7TEu1Tgq5I/w-d-xo.html
@@PatrykGrzech
@simonthibodeau7082
@simonthibodeau7082
8 months ago (edited)
CA$10.00
Thanks Duade! Obviously I was really looking forward to this vid! Amazing moments captured, I was completely awed a couple times.
Some further info for those still playing around with the settings:
1- You should probably play around with sensitivity in the AF menu and with the custom AF speeds/OIS modes to see which one you prefer. Accel/deccel at -2 is really the one setting to look out for.
Edit: my modes are now as follows:
Sensitivity 0, accel/deccel -2
C1: Slowest AF, moderate OIS
C2: Standard AF, moderate.
I also use the default settings when shooting handheld sometimes.
C2 on monopod is now my preferred choice in many situations (still use handheld and tripod a lot) but I use all three from time to time. In low light with a close target, I'll often use C1.
2- Jan Wegener suggested -2 sensitivity too for his 100-500, and after playing around with it in the field I don't see that much of a difference, but perhaps it could help the tracking on a busy background. Right now mine is set to 0 I think.
3- I think background separation and distance from subject are really the two to look out for. Subject movement as well like Duade showcased (seeing Gary spin around was hilarious btw), but I found background separation made even more of a difference, especially if the background is moving (wind in branches for example). When you look at all the scenarios that had the worst pulsing, they were usually the ones with slightly less ideal background separation (bird in tall grass with wind, bird on the ground, odd reflections in the water). It just seems to trigger it for some reason. In my initial controlled testing I barely saw any pulsing past 7m but after trying it out more and more, it does happen a bit when the subject is on a busy/changing background. Maybe lower sensitivity would help? It's hard to test it but I'm still experimenting as I'm shooting in the field.
For panning BIF however, haven't had too many issues so far are those are usually pretty far away and/or behind a sky background.
Edit #2: I think my settings for stills are pretty dialed in at this point, but I'm still experimenting more with BIF and need more time to test it on gulls. I'll update the comment once I have some definitive results. But with my C2 from edit #1 or even default dock settings, handheld or on mono, it's fine, really.
4- I think most people will still prefer standard OIS for the ease of framing, especially if shooting at around 1/640-1000 where standard performs just fine. Maybe keep just one mode on moderate and only switch to it if using 1/320-400 and lower, you'll have a shaky viewfinder but better stabilization in those scenarios.
Personally I use the Sigma on monopod a lot. I know Duade isn't a big fan of them but the Wimberley MH100 gimbal head is imo fantastic for ease of use, stabilization and ease of carrying around in the field on the shoulder. Moderate + a good monopod head is a killer combo as you get stabilization from camera/monopod shake and a stable viewfinder. Using a tripod gimbal on a monopod is also one of the best monopod heads you can use. Handheld is also good but there's a compromise between the OIS modes (stable image vs viewfinder) for sure.
I shoot handheld a lot too and I do have a good tripod+gimbal similar to Duade I mostly use around my feeders but since trying out the Wimberley Gimbal head, I just reach out for it more and more. I get as much stabilization as I would ever need and it's so much easier to recompose/move around and walk with it.
Personally if you have this combo, the first next purchase you should make with it is DXO PureRaw, the second is the Wimberly mono gimbal. Those are really the two best purchases I've made to improve my pics with the Sigma. But that's just my opinion ofc! If that mono gimbal didn't exist I wouldn't bother with monopods altogether, but it's just that good for me that it makes them worth it.
5- From the different AF speeds, I find the slowest one is fast enough once the subject is detected, but initial (prefocusing) acquisition is notably slower, as Duade said. Until you're really used to dual BBF and have dialed down your prefocusing technique it's probably best to use standard, and in situations that are less "sit and wait" you might prefer standard in general.
Edit#3: been using more and more standard speed and I prefer it now in most scenarios, especially for pre-acquisition speed. I still think fastest speed is overkill and a bit jerky.
6- if you're wondering when to shoot at F8 vs f6.3, note that with the R7 and DXO PureRaw, 2-3k ISO is the max you should ever shoot at F8, unless you really really need that extra DOF. The increase in sharpness is pretty marginal and at higher ISOs you will gain more resolution from the extra light gathering by shooting wide open. I've recently tested this extensively.
7- Don't use TCs with the Sigma. It just doesn't scale well optically.
8- Personally I've recently purchased the RF100-400 after hearing all the good things about it and I'm really really happy with it.
When people say you should own a zoom and a prime, getting the 100-400 has been eye opening in that regard. It's so easy to carry, point and shoot with it, my keeper rate with it blows me away. Even just the 200mm less reach makes it easier to frame, but I underestimated how much a lighter lens is easier for just aiming and shooting quick shots of small birds that jump in front of you in the trail when hiking for example. I think it's made me realize more why Duade likes the 100-500 so much now, I get it now. Still can't afford it sadly though!
I think it really relates to your style of shooting. "Sit and wait" and "tracking down" are the two ways to hunt animals (in photography or with rifles!) and in french we even have specific words for those two techniques (affût and billebaude).
Primes are better for sit and wait (feeders or lures for example), lighter zooms for tracking down. For me, the RF100-400 for tracking and the sigma for sit and wait serve those niches pretty well, within my budget. To me, the 100-400 serves the same purpose as Duade's 100-500, and the sigma serves the same purpose as his 500f4+1.4x. At a fraction of the price, it's not the same performance obviously but it's good enough for me so far.
To be fair, the sigma can definitely bridge that gap, before getting the 100-400 I would go on day long hikes with it no problem, even with the monopod as it's so easy to carry on the shoulder if it's an easy hike. It's a pretty good do it all with some compromises like AF and weight, to an extent.
9- If you're looking for purchase advice, here's my opinion. If you're new to the hobby and getting your first ever lens, I think the 100-400 is a better option. It's so much easier to use and learn on and will ease you into the hobby much better. It will get you in the habit of getting closer to the animals which is really the crucial thing to learn.
If you're looking for an upgrade to your current lens and need more reach, I think the sigma is a great option to consider for its price, versatility and great optics.
Consider the f11 primes, but take into account your shooting style. If you shoot mostly waterfowl, live in an area with plenty of sunlight and/or are the kind of person to check the weather and avoid cloudy days for shooting anyway, the f11 primes are a great option.
If you're like me and shoot almost everyday for fun no matter the weather, shoot mostly songbirds in dense boreal forests and live in a place like Quebec where the weather is pretty rock and roll, shoot anything that you come across including insects etc., Enjoy shooting at dusk and dawn, the Sigma is the clear choice imo. Note that the pulsing on the sigma is very minor past 6m, which is the minimum focus distance on the RF800! And I go up to 6-10-15 and even 20-25k ISO already at f6.3, so I can't imagine using an f11 lens personally. There's so many pictures I've taken with the Sigma that I know for a fact, would've been almost impossible to shoot at f11.
I think that's about it. Go out with the Sigma and enjoy it y'all, it's a neat little lens 🙂 and make sure to tip Duade if you can afford it! We need to support content creators such as him, I don't know about y'all but I can't think of any wildlife TH-camr that has better content, production quality and community outreach as he does. He's a pillar to the community! The fact he made an entire vid revisiting the Sigma after learning about these settings is a true testament of his commitment to rigorous methodology! And thanks to your mate for lending the lens, that Sigma has definitely gotten milked for content for sure by now 😅 Cheers
Edit: for all the people thanking me for the experimenting, you're welcome! I got frustrated no one was doing this testing and felt it needed to be done, so I did it myself 🙂 testing your own lens+camera is tedious but worth it to learn more about it. Thanks for the kind words everyone. Check out the sigma's FB group for more info/results in my post history aswell as others.
To start with I'm not a canon photographer (not really a wildlife photographer either) so can't speak about these specific problems but, I have seen similar issues on other systems.
I doubt it is a faulty body, it just may well be the camera can not keep up the continuous autofocus at such high frame rate, Sony capped theirs at 10FPS not because it couldn't do technically 20 or 30 FPS, they just couldn't do it and get a near perfect hit rate.
This to me just seems that it is a readout speed issue, if you shoot at 10FPS are the results better? on a similar priced system from Fuji, they do tell you that continuous auto focus is better on the Stacked sensor X-H2s which is £/$2500 compared to the X-H2/X-T5 (similar price to R7) where as Single point autofocus is better on the latter (due to more autofocus pixels).
I have seen IBIS cause errors in focus point when the camera is already stable (tri-pod/gimbal etc) but these are normally slight changes, and these errors almost completely disappear when the IBIS is switched off, but your examples look like big movements in focus, so I think readout speed not the sensor jumping around behind the lens.
Really the camera performs really well for a £/$1500 camera and although we all want better continuous autofocus performance the starting price for that is at least another £/$1000
Hi Duade - very timely video. I shoot an R6 + RF100-500 and usually a 1.4x extender and have consistently had these problems for the last few years. It drives me nuts to see the focus point on the bird's eye but the camera clearly focuses somewhere else. While shooting birds in flight, I often notice the focus point lagging the bird. After some dismal performance last Saturday, I just did a thorough review of every setting in the R6 and the lens also. I have a theory that the IBIS and lens stabilization might be causing this problem or contributing to it. I discovered that I have been shooting on mode 1 on the lens and should really be on 2 or 3 but that shouldn't cause a problem with perched birds. I almost always shoot wide open at 1/2500 or 1/3200. Next time I'm out - I am going to do a run with the stabilization off and on modes 2 and 3 to see if it helps. Thanks for your contributions to the community.
I think I might have the same issue with my R6 and RF 100 and RF 100 to 500. In macro I had hold and get good results with a few out of focus and I think I get it with birds and birds in flight. I've put it down to the fact I'm really making the AF work. I'll keep an I eye it more. I don't think I've missed shots like I used to with my Sigma 150-600
I gave it a try yesterday - my keeper rate dropped markedly when exposure simulation was active, the OVF simulation was key to getting consistent harp shots with my old 100-400 L IS USM (yes, that shunned air pump) on the R7…
Just returned from a 7 day photo trip to Yellowstone shooting mainly large mammals like bears, elk, moose, bison, and pronghorn. Used the R7 and 800mm about a third of the time to get that reach. I noticed that on average, every other shot of a burst was slightly out of focus though the focus square remained constant. Atmospheric conditions would have affected all of the shots. These are stationary animals for the most part and I was using slower burst rates and often single point vs eye focus. Still, considerable variation in focus. Had to toss about half the images as a result. Much better luck with the R5
Had the R7 for 3 weeks... and returned it today because of that focus shifting. I used the R7 with the Sigma 120-300 2.8 Sports. I got sharp images. But i got a lot of blurry images with servo AF. It doesn't matter if i use mechanical oder electronic shutter. Same result. I start shooting und focus clearly shifts from my subject. But the blue rectangle for Servo AF stays at the eye of my subject. I'm shooting sports (most of the time soccer). Thank god i saw this in practice and not at an actual game. I used every AF case, tried different setups. But still got a lot of focus shifting. Even with players standing on the field taking a break.
I own a R5 and a R6. I used the same Sigma lens and never had that issue. Thanks to your video i'm confident that returning the R7 was the right choice. Was at the post office before i found your video.
Shutter Speed was always very high at the pratice (1/3200-1/8000) because of sun light and f/2.8. ISO not higher than 500.
I too have the R7 and have noticed this problem. I thought it was me, that I was doing something wrong or I had a setting wrong. I agree that it is frustrating. Hopefully Canon will see this video and do some investigating into this issue. Love your videos. Thank you.
This happens with my Lumix G9 and Leica 100-400 a lot. Looks sharp on screen, then replays suggest otherwise. Tried shutter speed, stopped up/down, moved to better light and same results. Shots I think will be awful are super sharp and shots I spend ages with a stationary bird and perfect scenario are binned. Can't explain it either. Great topic Duade, I think you'll find it's not just the R7!
Thanks for the input Dylan, yes, could be a mirrorless issue also, lets hope they improve it over time and with updates. Cheers, Duade
YES!!! I have noticed that too! I thought it was me, moving the camera off the eye, but yet like you said the eyeball focus was locked on the whole time. I wonder if it just some cameras or all R7's. My friend has an R5 and also says it has problems focusing. Altho he gets much better shots than I do.
I have also noticed that if I don't get the eyeball (I photograph birds almost exclusively) focus to lock on, my shots are blurry with just regular focus. I use the adapter and the 100-400 USMII L Lens. I generally shoot at 1/200-1/4000.
Finally fixed this issue with the R7, Sold it now I shoot a sony A9 and no more focus shift issues :)
thanks for your reviews Duade. Your property is an amazing wildlife refuge.
Yes I’ve had similar problems also especially with the R10 which I sold shortly after I purchased it. Assuming you shoot in AI Autofocus, have you tried letting off the autofocus once focused and shooting a burst of images at set distance provided the subject doesn’t move? Or try One Shot autofocus and seeing if the focus still shifts at set subject distance? I’m assuming in AI Autofocus the system is still searching for subject changing distance and attempt s to micro adjust and over compensates or falsely recognizes a subject and then jumps back to the real subject in split second intervals. I also find this happens more so with eye autofocus and when having trouble I use subject detection instead to lock on to subject. I find for birds in flight this is sticker than eye autofocus. What might also help is adjusting case sensitivities for better tracking. Hope this helps. Camera is not perfect but for what it is for $1500 it’s very good. 😊