Amen to that judge. Completely right. She benefited from that income and she owes the taxes. She’s gonna be fine. She has already found a new parachute.
@@TH-camNeoconskeepcensoringme Good point. However, I do think she should have been liable (on her own) for $50k, and not jointly liable with her hex for $100k.
@@georgewagner7787 How familiar are you with Ramsey ?. He often says that when people are married , it is y'all's money !!.. Why wouldn't it be y'all's debt ??.
It's recommended to save at least 15% of your income in a 401k. You can use online calculators to estimate how much you should save based on your age and income. Saving at least 15% of your income in a 401(k) can help ensure that you have enough money to retire comfortably. By saving this much, you can take advantage of compound interest and potentially grow your retirement savings over time.
She dodged the question why she didn’t file separately those 7 years. If the excuse was his business was complicated and she had a separate income then she should have filed separately and she wouldn’t have been liable now.
Filing separately wouldn’t have solved their issue because they were still married thus she would still be responsible for the debt. It only makes sense in hindsight knowing they’d get divorced
There's no way this is correct because after not filing for the second or third year in a row they would come after you and force you to pay through the court. They're not going to wait seven years to call you on your back payments.
COVID probably had an impact. The IRS suspended levy and refund offset. I even wonder if new husband even knows. The IRS resumed collection this summer. I wonder if new husband said “honey, why do you have a certified letter from the IRS..”
@@matthewkroeker110 Right?? the one time I was behind, I called the IRS and asked them if I could pay payments. The rep said, "sure, how much can you afford?" It was so easy.
I am a former IRS Revenue Officer and am now an Enrolled Agent. This caller did everything wrong. She ignored filing seven years of taxes because life was complicated and rough. I am with Dave on this point only -The IRS is not bound by any state court decision. And she should have filed her own return. She needs to pay the $55,000 over now. She needs to enter a Manually Monitored Installment Agreement. Dave, you cant file an innocent spouse case on this - the spouse concealed nothing - the caller signed voluntarily and “complicated” does not mean she was duped. She’s a reasonable person and could have solved this during any of the seven years she was a scofflaw by filing a a return on her W2 income as married filing separately. With 7 years of non compliance and now the balance owed, if I were assigned to a case like that as an RO, I would be required to consider making a criminal referral. As it stands, paying other creditors while building up a $55,000 in liquid cash while ignoring IRS is stacking up to evasion of payment. She’s lucky she isnt facing federal prison…
It’s only fair that if she benefited of several years of the income, she also owes the tax on it. She doesn’t just get to eject out and leave the ex with all the debt. “Our income” but not “our tax bill”? Cmon Dave!
I was in a similar situation. Good thing I had my 4 years of all my bank statements and receipts. Just in boxes. I finally found someone to go through them. And found out. Instead of owing the irs 50k in taxes. My business wasn't profitable. The irs owed me 300 dollars. DO YOUR TAXES! ALL I CAN SAY.
Why does Dave think she’s not liable for this? They were married. Joint filing, joint venture. He tells married couples all the time not to have separate finances but in this case it’s okay? Makes no sense. She’s responsible as much as he is.
Not scott free. I married a woman who owed 100k through her ex (and she lied to me about it keeping it a secret). I found out when i filed my taxes and they took 'my refund...then they wouldn't talk to me because it was her and her exs debt. Insane. I filed innocent spouse. And had to pay 1/2 of my 7500 refund. Then i divorced her after finding out it was actually 400k back taxes she lied to me about.
I wondered if she disclosed her tax debt to her current husband. When family members sold their house, the first potential buyer owed $40,000 in tax debt and it was discovered by the bank during the loan approval process. If the potential buyers paid the tax debt, they would not have the down payment for the house. They fooled around for nearly a month tugging heartstrings and dragging out the process until the real estate agent representing the house stepped in and said "Release the good faith money or we kill the negotiation." The buyers dragged on for three more days and were confident enough to release the good faith money ($15,000). They were given a week to come up with legitimate financing. The deal fell apart and family members were done with them. We could not figure out why these people did not let the deal go and pay their tax debt instead of fooling around trying to get "alternative financing." They basically paid $15,000 in good faith money to lose out on buying a house they could not afford. Our family members were delayed in the purchase of their new house: The $15,000 covered the six weeks they were stuck renting; their house sold to buyers who actually had their finances in order. 🙄
Innocent spouse relief doesn't apply here. If she had any reason to know about what he was making and that there were no tax filings, that defense is not available. It really only applies in situations where things are hidden and the other spouse really has no idea it's going on.
Tax accountant here. Innocent spouse would actually apply to her current husband. So if she files jointly with her current husband, he would be able to claim innocent spouse and be entitled to the portion of his tax refund without it going towards her tax debt. It wouldn't apply to her since she filed jointly with her ex, and the innocent spouse provision doesn't work retroactively.
@@NATEG01 Current EA and former RO. You’ve confused innocent spouse and injured spouse. Her current spouse is an injured spouse because the Service will offset any MFJ refund to her sole debt. They attach an 8379 to their return and allocate. I do not believe innocent spouse applies here because there is no evidence of understatement or errors.
@@NATEG01 if innocent spouse does not apply retroactively, how would it work prospectively? If the basis of innocent spouse is a concealment or errors resulted in an understated tax, there has to be some action by the Service to increase the assessment after filing. You’d see AUR, Exam, or maybe a math error adjustment.
@@briandfallon74 As I stated in my first comment, the innocent spouse would only work prospectively by giving relief to her current husband if they file jointly. The IRS can't hold him liable for the tax debt. She is not an innocent spouse because she filed jointly with her ex. It doesn't matter if it's his business because if you file jointly, the IRS views both spouses liable for the tax debt. The only exception is if the tax debt was payroll taxes, or if the business was a C-Corp. But this doesn't sound like it's the case. In the case of an IRS adjustment, both spouses would be liable for the increase in tax since they filed jointly. I've seen this in other cases that I've worked with, and most of the time, the IRS will come after the easier target regardless of whose income resulted in the increase in tax. This is why it's a good idea to file separately if you're having marriage issues or have a spouse that has business or financial problems.
I can’t understand why people mess with the IRS. It’s not fun, but it is easy. If you have a job they take it right away, if you are self-employed set 25-30% aside, not that hard.
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Wow, 7 years without filing taxes? Talk about 2 very immature and incompetent people. They are both lucky they didn't end up in jail for not filing these taxes for so long. Plus owing the IRS that much money baffles me. I'm shocked that their incomes aren't being garnished.
I dont get it. She was totally complicit in her husbands failure to file taxes. She DID benefit from his income. Why shouldnt she pay up? Shes not innocent!
Then you don't know the basics of US tax law, while you're married you can file separately or jointly. For a judge to mandate filing jointly at all sounds like an overreach of his authority, and just an insane thing to even suggest while in divorce proceedings
@@dudeorduuude5211if the business was an LLC, the tax liability passes through to the owner(s). And if the business was started when they were married, they're both the owners.
@@dudeorduuude5211I suspected that she might have been on the business paperwork, that question was not asked. If she follows the advice Dave gave her the truth will come out. Having $100,000 in tax debt makes a mortgage dicey at best, and she will likely have a hard time buying a house.
How much is she willing to spend on fighting something she may not win? It wasn’t even 50/50 split, so in a sense, she has already won; she should pay her percentage and move on.
its kinda funny listening Dave always talks about the income being our income when a couple, now he's changing his tune on this call, it wasn't his business when they were married it was "Their" business therefore she's on the hook too and just as responsible for not filing.
It would not be "their" business if she was not on the paperwork. She may have had an outside job while her ex ran the business into the ground (what may generally happen if one does not file and pay taxes on one's business). When the divorce came around, the taxes had to be filed, and the judge decreed jointly. If she was not on the husband's business paperwork she might be able to fight the liability to an extent, however, it sounds like when the joint taxes were filed she made more than the ex's business and wound up with more liability. Dave pointed her in a direction: The truth of her story will be revealed when/if she purses that direction for recourse. She may have been overwhelmed by the hourly cost for a real lawyer to fight her "battle" and she turned to the Ramsey Show. Guiding principles will often inform given counsel, by that standard Dave is not outside of a norm.
Can always count on Dave to try and pin the tax bill on the husband and let her skate. Guaranteed if the business did well he would’ve told her to take him for every penny he had. It’s only “ours” when things go well
So if the business did well, she is “liable” for the benefits, but because it went to shit, as a married couple, now she shouldnt be “liable” for it. Imagine that. Lol
That made me cringe. When I was a teenager, I was set up with a very respectable man and we dated for a few months. One night told me he had not paid income tax on his business for nine years. He justified why and I could not believe anyone would be that irresponsible, he owned a beautiful house and had a business that appeared to be doing really well. That was the last time I went out with him. Fast forward several months and my mother and her friend were giving me a hard time about "dumping" that "really great" guy. I looked mom's friend in the eyes and said "I quit dating him because he told me he had not paid his income tax in nine years." She was shocked. My mom was embarrassed: "Well, I never heard THAT." 😂😂😂
Hmm… A divorced, post-wall woman, who flat-out stopped paying taxes for 7 years, because of a potentially failed business. She owes 100k. Sounds like marriage material to me.
It got me wondering if her current husband knew about her post divorce tax debt before he married her. It is so important to discuss finances before marrying; if there is debt, there needs to be a plan to get out of it.
When i opened up my business the comptroller for the sales tax (i work in the trades) told me. "If you do what youre supposed to youll never hear from us from again" Its the same way with the IRS. 2 things guaranteed in life Death and taxes
Dave lost me on this one. They were married for 7 years while making that money. Both of them intentionally didn't file their taxes. She sure as heck benefited from the business income. Now you want her to file separately so he can get stuck with the bulk of the bill?? Dave always preaches that a marriage is ALL joint. The "innocent spouse" clause would not apply here. That would be for spouses that legitimately didn't know of their partners earnings/doings.
She’s lying about a lot of things. It’s most likely her debt but putting blame on the ex. The ex dodged a huge bullet. She’s delusional, I’m sure reason why they’re divorced. Feel sorry for the new husband because he won’t be the last guaranteed.
I wouldn't notice if my husband would commit fraud in his business but I WOULD notice us not filling taxes at all for 7 years! How can she claim innocence?
Thank you Dave, As soon as she started talking I thought she doesn’t need to be on this show, she needs to be sitting in an office with a GOOD cpa and a tax attorney. And you said that at the end. I’m sure she just went with whatever cpa her ex husband chose and that person worked in his interests. Local judges have a history of over extending their authority, many issues like bankruptcy and taxes are handled in a federal court and it muddies the water when a lower court tried to make rulings and a higher court says I don’t think so.
@@Excalibur2 correct, I am a business owner and my ex wife and this woman sound just the same. They expect to just be able to put life on cruise control while their spouse handles all the decisions, details, and money problems. This is a hold over of traditional society and these women get away with it because of the lack of accountability and expectations held for women from said chivalrous era. My difference is that i made sure our taxes got paid. I am just stating the course of actions she needs to take to get out of her issue. She is treating this problem socially and not logically.
Please tell me how much experience you have in this regard. I’m a former IRS Revenue Officer and now an Enrolled Agent in private practice. In any divorce situation, a credentialed tax pro (EA, CPA or Attorney) has a conflict of interest because both parties have differing interests. There’s a process to resolve that and if it wasnt followed, she can make a complaint against the CPA to the IRS Office of Professional Responsibility. No credentialed tax pro is risking sanction or losing the ability to practice before IRS for these irresponsible folks. Second, there is zero evidence the CPA didnt prepare a proper married filing joint return. Seven years is $15,000 a year - not earth shattering. Third, what efforts did divorce attorney make to advocate for a MFS return ie why did they agree or was it contested? Lastly, her decree gives her right to seek it from the ex if she pays it all. This caller needs to grow up and start adulting. She has two choices - enter into an installment agreement with the IRS after paying over the $55,000 or keep fighting losing battles. She’s not buying a house with $100 k of IRS debt
@@briandfallon74 My experiences are personal and I do have a few sparring with taxes and needed representation, but I think you have summarized it in your lengthy post here. We don't have all the information and definitely not the information to answer the questions you just asked. Another thing is based on your comments you assume she didn't pay any taxes on her income. If she is like most scenarios then she worked a "job" which did take taxes out on her behalf so there is a terminology mistake. She most likely paid her taxes but didn't file them. If she would have filed separately then she should have been in the clear (besides the penalties for late filing etc). Other than saber rattling and trying to flex your "authority" I fail to see any point you are trying to make. Why didn't the judge make them file separately using their own accountants? You say you are from the IRS but in all reality it has little to do with local courts and family law. As a contractor I am in local courts more than a few times a year and see many judges acting on emotion and overstepping the scope of the case. People get loans all the time with tax debt. You are also forgetting that she has a new spouse who doesn't have the tax debt so he is perfectly capable of obtaining the mortgage without her as long as he has enough income.
@@electricalsociety5593 my point is you are drawing conclusions without the facts. I spent 15 years at IRS and now have a private EA practice. This called has very typical statements of someone that is irresponsible. She could have avoided the whole thing at the start of 7 years of non compliance with a grown up conversation with the ex: “Since you arent ready to file taxes, I’m filing a separate return.” She’d not be in this problem - it’s self created. She’s now doubling down by ignoring the tax debt, while building a healthy cash account and becoming “debt free.” She needs to pay. You posit somehow a new CPA will get a different result. The IRS prohibits a tax payer from amending from MFJ to MFS after the original due date of the return and innocent spouse is not applicable - she has no evidence she was duped. She needs to grow up and pay. On courts, I do believe local judges issue orders about a lot of things they cant control - but well intentioned folks rely on that for, say claiming a dependent or dividing up tax debt. The IRS isnt bound by a state court decision. The new spouse may very well qualify for the mortgage on his own. In that type of case, with the facts presented in the call, if he alone buys a house using the $55,000, if a Revenue Officer is assigned, the new spouse will likely find a special condition Notice of Federal Tax Lien naming him a nominee of his spouse and the IRS asserting a lien interest in the real estate. Then it starts to get real sporty as the IRS has the legal authority to file a suit to foreclose the tax lien in federal court. She can go your route and continue to delay and evade or she can go my route to pay over the $55,000 and enter into an installment agreement. If she goes my route, life gets easier. If she goes your route, it’s exponentially more difficult.
I don’t agree with Dave she is responsible for the taxes,she was just not paying attention to their taxes. I say make a offer in compromise and hire a tax attorney to settle and move on.
i'm no champion for the IRS, but if you legitimately owe $100k you've been dodging your taxes due and need to pay in full or else the money will affect everyone that DOES pay their as they should.
This might be an elected, layman probate judge. I had to deal with one when my dad passed. He was corrupt, abusive of his power, and utterly ignorant of the law.
Innocent spouse can only be used if she had no clue her ex was understating his income. From what the caller stated in this call that assertion would not hold any merit. If she had filed separately initially then maybe she could claim innocent spouse, however she never filed her taxes. Also Dave did not consider what type of entity the business was and whether she was employed by the ex husband or part owner. He also did not think about whether she is in a community property state or not
That $100K would appear to include the taxes from her income too. I don't think she paid an amount and is now talking about just the business. They got hit with $100K bill for all their joint shenanigans, I'd think. Joint filing for those 7 years. Good on the judge for giving her some "adulting".
I apologize. I didn't mean to offend your mother. Based on your emotional response I am guessing you are related to her. Otherwise, you would be rationale enough to understand that a comment section is for comments, and I am sure I have a right to my opinion.@@dudeorduuude5211
I love me some Dave Ramsey, but seriously? Saying she's not liable for his taxes??? They were Married and jointly decided To NOT Pay Their Taxes! Smh on this one.
A spouse only typically qualifies for innocent spouse if they determine one spouse did not benefit from the income which caused the tax liability. It sounds like she did benefit, so good luck with the Innocent Spouse application.
They’ll never get to that because there is zero allegation of understatement, concealment or error on the part of the other spouse. Opposite was true - she was involved. She owes; pay up
Spend 10k to maybe save 40k and stretch this thing out and deal w added daily stress...depending on how mich she makes would be better to just pay it herself
Her ex probably had his business registered as a proprietorship (not a corporation or partnership) which means that the income made from the business becomes 50/50 income for her ex and herself. If she didn't file taxes for 7 years during her marriage then she is liable to pay taxes on 50% of the profits from the business plus penalty and interest. If her ex-husband paid taxes on his 50% of the profits during the 7 year period then this $100K debt to IRS is entirely hers. So, I think David is wrong on this one.
Is there evidence she’s in a community property state? For tax purposes, a Sch C lists the SSN of the owner - even on a joint return. A married couple can choose to allocate - for essentially social security - half to each spouse, but that’s not applicable here as she doesnt indicate she worked in the business. She indicated they did not file any tax return for 7 years. If she filed MFS, under federal law, at least four of those years, she’d be barred from amending to include his income. As she said she had w2 income, she could have filed separately.
You can void uncle same but he WILL find you unless you die first lol if your terminal stop paying taxes if your in your 90's stop paying taxes if your anything else PAY TAXES...
Wrong. She is also liable. She also did not file her taxes either for 7 years. It was not just the business. The judge said that she benefited for the business income. Dave loves to say everyone is wrong. These people love to put men down. And hold women up on a pedestal.
If a man had called with a situation of not paying taxes on her business, would Dave say that he doesn’t owe the taxes on her business? She admitted knowing they weren’t filing, even on her income.
I think a lot of people are missing that Dave is specifying the personal income taken from the business profit to be shared taxes, excluding dollars re-invested into the business, because it sounds like the ex-husband still owns and profits off the business
My two daughters 30 , 36 both live with me and my wife they making really good money and avoid rent that way they could pay the irs when it comes to taxes
If they make really good money, taxes shouldn’t be a problem. They must have other reasons to still be living off of with mom and dad at their ages. 🤷♀️
Avoiding taxes for SEVEN years just doesn't "happen." There has to be intent to do that. She seemingly wants us to believe she was too dumb to know what was happening. I don't buy it.
I’m confused on Dave’s take on this. In a marriage it is 50/50, at least that’s what I get from being a long listener of this show, so why is he advising her to not take responsibility of half the cost of the businesses she benefited from. Just seems off to hear him say she go back to court to get completely out of it. If I’m missing something someone educate me.
Whenever he says that the gears start spinning, and the women have to decide real quick if it benefits them to lie and say they're in danger to appear the victim.
"Jill, you can't breathe... you can't breathe, Jill. Life has hit you like a ton of bricks. I want you to take a deep breath right now then tonight I want you to grab a big ugly rock, drive to a swamp, and Jill I want you to throw that rock into that swamp, Jill. There goes all your problems. I had a friend who said something amazing once. He tol - and he's not a psychologist, just a smart dude - he said 'every 60 seconds....a minute passes...' Say that out loud. Did you feel the weight being lifted off your ample bosom? I love you, Jill. Call me."
Why would she not be responsible for the tax Dave? You would argue vehemently for the whole income the business earned while they were married being THEIRS together. So she should share the tax burden equally. Dave = Simp. Always sides with the woman. Pathetic. Good job judge.
Tax accountant here. Innocent spouse wouldn't work in this case because that provision of the tax law only applies to filing future years of taxes. It doesn't work retroactively and since it's already been at least 7 years, it would be far too late to file amendments.
Just append the return with an injured spouse form, stating what was his and hers. Taxes are not "together", despite the "joint" status. The court divorce ruling may have impacted this though...
🤔 100k over 7 years is approx. 1200 per month. How much was the business making per month? Because for it to last 7 years it sounds like business was thriving. Even if they only brung home 3k per month from the business, its not like the taxes were k*lling them? Just pay it!
Amen to that judge. Completely right. She benefited from that income and she owes the taxes. She’s gonna be fine. She has already found a new parachute.
What a dummy the new husband is!
Exactly I’m right there with you
Agree completely! I can’t understand why Dave wants this woman not to pay for her fair share. SHE BENEFITTED FROM THE BUSINESS DAVE!!!!
The judge even split it 60/40. She’ll spend 10k on lawyers to fight it
New simp...I mean husband will pay for it
I agree with the Judge. She is an adult and chose to avoid 7 years of taxes.
@@DJ-tn3ovno he's right, they were in a marriage!!!
Kudos to that judge on taking a look at the whole picture and administering a fair ruling. Need more judges like them.
Yup, because if the ex had 100,000 in profit she would be entitled to half. So now she gets half of the debt
@@TH-camNeoconskeepcensoringme Good point. However, I do think she should have been liable (on her own) for $50k, and not jointly liable with her hex for $100k.
Just pay your taxes like the rest of us, good god. She is not a victim.
Ramsey continues to encourage simping , and often not holding women accountable .
How did he treat her as a victim, all he did was give her advice.
@@georgewagner7787 How familiar are you with Ramsey ?. He often says that when people are married , it is y'all's money !!.. Why wouldn't it be y'all's debt ??.
It's recommended to save at least 15% of your income in a 401k. You can use online calculators to estimate how much you should save based on your age and income. Saving at least 15% of your income in a 401(k) can help ensure that you have enough money to retire comfortably. By saving this much, you can take advantage of compound interest and potentially grow your retirement savings over time.
She dodged the question why she didn’t file separately those 7 years. If the excuse was his business was complicated and she had a separate income then she should have filed separately and she wouldn’t have been liable now.
Exactly.
They both enjoyed tax free income coming in until they decided to divorce.
Filing separately wouldn’t have solved their issue because they were still married thus she would still be responsible for the debt. It only makes sense in hindsight knowing they’d get divorced
Dave's comment VerBatim
There's no way this is correct because after not filing for the second or third year in a row they would come after you and force you to pay through the court. They're not going to wait seven years to call you on your back payments.
Why you'd skip the IRS is completely beyond me.
COVID probably had an impact. The IRS suspended levy and refund offset. I even wonder if new husband even knows.
The IRS resumed collection this summer. I wonder if new husband said “honey, why do you have a certified letter from the IRS..”
@@briandfallon74according to her timeline they already hadn’t filed in 3 years by the time Covid hit.
@@TonyCox1351 that was my thought.
From someone who didn't pay taxes last year. I'm trying to pay off my house first 😆 they can take payments
@@matthewkroeker110 Right?? the one time I was behind, I called the IRS and asked them if I could pay payments. The rep said, "sure, how much can you afford?" It was so easy.
He didn’t want to deal with it but she decided to ignore it. Sounds like they were both incompetent.
agreed
But everything was “overwhelming “. Welcome to life!😂
I am a former IRS Revenue Officer and am now an Enrolled Agent.
This caller did everything wrong. She ignored filing seven years of taxes because life was complicated and rough.
I am with Dave on this point only -The IRS is not bound by any state court decision. And she should have filed her own return.
She needs to pay the $55,000 over now. She needs to enter a Manually Monitored Installment Agreement.
Dave, you cant file an innocent spouse case on this - the spouse concealed nothing - the caller signed voluntarily and “complicated” does not mean she was duped.
She’s a reasonable person and could have solved this during any of the seven years she was a scofflaw by filing a a return on her W2 income as married filing separately.
With 7 years of non compliance and now the balance owed, if I were assigned to a case like that as an RO, I would be required to consider making a criminal referral. As it stands, paying other creditors while building up a $55,000 in liquid cash while ignoring IRS is stacking up to evasion of payment.
She’s lucky she isnt facing federal prison…
The IRS can seize her house if she doesn’t make arrangements with the IRS.
It’s only fair that if she benefited of several years of the income, she also owes the tax on it. She doesn’t just get to eject out and leave the ex with all the debt. “Our income” but not “our tax bill”? Cmon Dave!
Would he have responded the exact same way if the roles were reversed ?.
"I'm innocent! I'm just a dumb girl who doesn't understand! Math is hard!". There's a reason the judge ruled the way he did.
But dat poon
"Strong and independent" when it's convenient
"Just a dumb girl" when it's convenient
I was in a similar situation. Good thing I had my 4 years of all my bank statements and receipts. Just in boxes. I finally found someone to go through them. And found out. Instead of owing the irs 50k in taxes. My business wasn't profitable. The irs owed me 300 dollars. DO YOUR TAXES! ALL I CAN SAY.
So, the IRS prepared a substitute for return?
She is not innocent and knew they weren't paying the taxes which is why she jumped around answering the question. She is liable
"Just didn't want to deal with it", well now you're dealing with it all at once! Government wants their money!
Why does Dave think she’s not liable for this? They were married. Joint filing, joint venture. He tells married couples all the time not to have separate finances but in this case it’s okay? Makes no sense. She’s responsible as much as he is.
customer is always right
Because married couples don’t have to file jointly.
Understand, it’s less of a legal question and more of an ethics questions which Dave is big on.
All sorts of red flags going on here 😂😂😂
Not scott free. I married a woman who owed 100k through her ex (and she lied to me about it keeping it a secret). I found out when i filed my taxes and they took 'my refund...then they wouldn't talk to me because it was her and her exs debt. Insane. I filed innocent spouse. And had to pay 1/2 of my 7500 refund. Then i divorced her after finding out it was actually 400k back taxes she lied to me about.
Omg, that's scary.
I wondered if she disclosed her tax debt to her current husband. When family members sold their house, the first potential buyer owed $40,000 in tax debt and it was discovered by the bank during the loan approval process. If the potential buyers paid the tax debt, they would not have the down payment for the house. They fooled around for nearly a month tugging heartstrings and dragging out the process until the real estate agent representing the house stepped in and said "Release the good faith money or we kill the negotiation." The buyers dragged on for three more days and were confident enough to release the good faith money ($15,000). They were given a week to come up with legitimate financing. The deal fell apart and family members were done with them. We could not figure out why these people did not let the deal go and pay their tax debt instead of fooling around trying to get "alternative financing." They basically paid $15,000 in good faith money to lose out on buying a house they could not afford.
Our family members were delayed in the purchase of their new house: The $15,000 covered the six weeks they were stuck renting; their house sold to buyers who actually had their finances in order. 🙄
Thats horrible!
Why is she saving for a house when she owes the IRS???
She believes she shouldn’t be obligated to pay it
Exactly, id hate to owe the gov 1 penney
She is just a flake😅
It's all backwards
Innocent spouse relief doesn't apply here. If she had any reason to know about what he was making and that there were no tax filings, that defense is not available. It really only applies in situations where things are hidden and the other spouse really has no idea it's going on.
Tax accountant here. Innocent spouse would actually apply to her current husband. So if she files jointly with her current husband, he would be able to claim innocent spouse and be entitled to the portion of his tax refund without it going towards her tax debt. It wouldn't apply to her since she filed jointly with her ex, and the innocent spouse provision doesn't work retroactively.
@@NATEG01 Current EA and former RO. You’ve confused innocent spouse and injured spouse.
Her current spouse is an injured spouse because the Service will offset any MFJ refund to her sole debt. They attach an 8379 to their return and allocate.
I do not believe innocent spouse applies here because there is no evidence of understatement or errors.
@@NATEG01 if innocent spouse does not apply retroactively, how would it work prospectively?
If the basis of innocent spouse is a concealment or errors resulted in an understated tax, there has to be some action by the Service to increase the assessment after filing. You’d see AUR, Exam, or maybe a math error adjustment.
@@briandfallon74 As I stated in my first comment, the innocent spouse would only work prospectively by giving relief to her current husband if they file jointly. The IRS can't hold him liable for the tax debt.
She is not an innocent spouse because she filed jointly with her ex. It doesn't matter if it's his business because if you file jointly, the IRS views both spouses liable for the tax debt. The only exception is if the tax debt was payroll taxes, or if the business was a C-Corp. But this doesn't sound like it's the case.
In the case of an IRS adjustment, both spouses would be liable for the increase in tax since they filed jointly. I've seen this in other cases that I've worked with, and most of the time, the IRS will come after the easier target regardless of whose income resulted in the increase in tax. This is why it's a good idea to file separately if you're having marriage issues or have a spouse that has business or financial problems.
I can’t understand why people mess with the IRS. It’s not fun, but it is easy. If you have a job they take it right away, if you are self-employed set 25-30% aside, not that hard.
They wanted to spend every penny. It insanity thinking that this wouldn’t bite you in the a$$. I think this woman is short on brain cells.
I realized that the secret to making a million is making better investment. I bought my 1st home at 21 for 87k sold for 197k, 2nd home 170k and sold for 320k, 3rd 300k and sold for 589k and buyers paid all closing costs expenses etc Not making up to a million before retirement is unfulfilled retirement.!!
I started out with a financial advisor called *"Rochelle Dungca Schreiber"*. Her honest approach gives me complete ownership and control of my positions, and her rates are incredibly affordable given my ROI. However, do your due diligence before contacting a financial advisor..
Rochelle appears to be very knowledgeable. I found her webpage and read through her resume, educational background, and qualifications, which were all very impressive. She is a fiduciary, which means she will act in my best interests. So I scheduled a call with her.
Wow, 7 years without filing taxes? Talk about 2 very immature and incompetent people. They are both lucky they didn't end up in jail for not filing these taxes for so long. Plus owing the IRS that much money baffles me. I'm shocked that their incomes aren't being garnished.
I dont get it. She was totally complicit in her husbands failure to file taxes. She DID benefit from his income. Why shouldnt she pay up? Shes not innocent!
How do you know she benefited from his income, Maybe the GF did?
@@aolvaar8792She herself said the judge told her she benefited from it.
She telling lies. An absolute disgrace 😒
Yes and Dave ok wt it 😮😮😮
@@LuisLopez-nk7fj Apparently her new husband is $$$$$ buying into it .
They were married during the years that they didn’t file, therefore they should file as married. Makes sense to me
Then you don't know the basics of US tax law, while you're married you can file separately or jointly. For a judge to mandate filing jointly at all sounds like an overreach of his authority, and just an insane thing to even suggest while in divorce proceedings
@@001SpecialAgent She also did not file her own taxes.
Businesses tend to be their own entities. If she isn't owner, this doesn't make sense.
@@dudeorduuude5211if the business was an LLC, the tax liability passes through to the owner(s). And if the business was started when they were married, they're both the owners.
@@dudeorduuude5211I suspected that she might have been on the business paperwork, that question was not asked. If she follows the advice Dave gave her the truth will come out. Having $100,000 in tax debt makes a mortgage dicey at best, and she will likely have a hard time buying a house.
She wouldn't be liable for the taxes but if the business was successful and paid up she would get half of that in the divorce. 🤔 Sounds...icky.
How much is she willing to spend on fighting something she may not win? It wasn’t even 50/50 split, so in a sense, she has already won; she should pay her percentage and move on.
The answer is easy. You owe it. Pay it.
Death AND taxes!
So these people didn’t pay taxes for 7 years and thought they’d be fine??? LOL
My father was a CPA. From a youngster he would opine, “Don’t mess with the IRS”.
New husband should be running for the hills from this lady.
Indeed! I wonder if he even knew.
Ageeed
its kinda funny listening Dave always talks about the income being our income when a couple, now he's changing his tune on this call, it wasn't his business when they were married it was "Their" business therefore she's on the hook too and just as responsible for not filing.
If the caller were a man then Dave would be singing a different song.
It would not be "their" business if she was not on the paperwork. She may have had an outside job while her ex ran the business into the ground (what may generally happen if one does not file and pay taxes on one's business). When the divorce came around, the taxes had to be filed, and the judge decreed jointly. If she was not on the husband's business paperwork she might be able to fight the liability to an extent, however, it sounds like when the joint taxes were filed she made more than the ex's business and wound up with more liability. Dave pointed her in a direction: The truth of her story will be revealed when/if she purses that direction for recourse. She may have been overwhelmed by the hourly cost for a real lawyer to fight her "battle" and she turned to the Ramsey Show. Guiding principles will often inform given counsel, by that standard Dave is not outside of a norm.
Wow! I am always learning something new watching this show! Thank you Mr. Ramsey!
As good as Ramsey is about basic financial advice , hopefully you've also learned that he also encourages simping .
Can always count on Dave to try and pin the tax bill on the husband and let her skate. Guaranteed if the business did well he would’ve told her to take him for every penny he had. It’s only “ours” when things go well
He told her one option was to pay. The other option is to fight. Those are her legal rights.
I wonder if her income was from the business and she was in the business with him? I’m thinking maybe it was and she left that part out
Thank you , because you are saying exactly what I am thinking . As much as I like Ramsey's basic financial advice , he constantly encourages simping .
Amen
@@WISHBONEL7 The guy is at fault most of the time. They are the heads of the household. Instead, they act like spoiled brats.
What type of business that’s so complicated that they decided not to hire a cpa to file taxes annually. Something is not fully disclosed.
So if the business did well, she is “liable” for the benefits, but because it went to shit, as a married couple, now she shouldnt be “liable” for it. Imagine that. Lol
Exactly my thoughts! If the business thrived Dave would have advised her on how to take half if not more!
Why is she laughing ? She owes the money. Who doesn’t file taxes for 7 years ?
That made me cringe. When I was a teenager, I was set up with a very respectable man and we dated for a few months. One night told me he had not paid income tax on his business for nine years. He justified why and I could not believe anyone would be that irresponsible, he owned a beautiful house and had a business that appeared to be doing really well. That was the last time I went out with him. Fast forward several months and my mother and her friend were giving me a hard time about "dumping" that "really great" guy. I looked mom's friend in the eyes and said "I quit dating him because he told me he had not paid his income tax in nine years." She was shocked. My mom was embarrassed: "Well, I never heard THAT." 😂😂😂
@@user-mv9tt4st9k Smart gal!
She was half owner for sure, and they probably got off light it’s prob more like 200k and they settled on 100k and she spent a lot
Hmm…
A divorced, post-wall woman, who flat-out stopped paying taxes for 7 years, because of a potentially failed business. She owes 100k.
Sounds like marriage material to me.
50 bucks says she's hot.
she does that "thing" he likes the other girls dont do lol...priceless...
It got me wondering if her current husband knew about her post divorce tax debt before he married her. It is so important to discuss finances before marrying; if there is debt, there needs to be a plan to get out of it.
When i opened up my business the comptroller for the sales tax (i work in the trades) told me.
"If you do what youre supposed to youll never hear from us from again"
Its the same way with the IRS.
2 things guaranteed in life
Death and taxes
It’s amazing how people can’t answer simple questions.
Because she was thinking of a way to lie or spin something.
Never piss off the tax man. No matter what country. 🇨🇦 here.
But it goes tenfold for the US.
Poor new husband, paying a lot
Her butt must be worth it, right?!?
Yeah, caller is probably a 10 lol
@@GatoradeAppreciatori assume its the poon
Avoidant personality disorder. She better face reality as painful as it is.
She owed the IRS $100k and is saving for a house! If she is not careful she will end up in the big house!
Dave lost me on this one. They were married for 7 years while making that money. Both of them intentionally didn't file their taxes. She sure as heck benefited from the business income. Now you want her to file separately so he can get stuck with the bulk of the bill?? Dave always preaches that a marriage is ALL joint. The "innocent spouse" clause would not apply here. That would be for spouses that legitimately didn't know of their partners earnings/doings.
Dave thinking judges always think logically 😅 bless his heart
She’s lying about a lot of things. It’s most likely her debt but putting blame on the ex. The ex dodged a huge bullet. She’s delusional, I’m sure reason why they’re divorced. Feel sorry for the new husband because he won’t be the last guaranteed.
She is a woman.
I hope you have some salve for your butt. I'm sure it hurt to pull that made up story out of there.
Listen to how well she dodged questions, I'm glad Dave called her on it, he doesn't always do that.
A new ATM Man is working thus far!
No accountability or accounting. SMH.
I wouldn't notice if my husband would commit fraud in his business but I WOULD notice us not filling taxes at all for 7 years! How can she claim innocence?
Thank you Dave,
As soon as she started talking I thought she doesn’t need to be on this show, she needs to be sitting in an office with a GOOD cpa and a tax attorney. And you said that at the end. I’m sure she just went with whatever cpa her ex husband chose and that person worked in his interests. Local judges have a history of over extending their authority, many issues like bankruptcy and taxes are handled in a federal court and it muddies the water when a lower court tried to make rulings and a higher court says I don’t think so.
And she needs a good counselor to help her start taking responsibility for her own life.
@@Excalibur2 correct,
I am a business owner and my ex wife and this woman sound just the same. They expect to just be able to put life on cruise control while their spouse handles all the decisions, details, and money problems. This is a hold over of traditional society and these women get away with it because of the lack of accountability and expectations held for women from said chivalrous era.
My difference is that i made sure our taxes got paid. I am just stating the course of actions she needs to take to get out of her issue. She is treating this problem socially and not logically.
Please tell me how much experience you have in this regard. I’m a former IRS Revenue Officer and now an Enrolled Agent in private practice.
In any divorce situation, a credentialed tax pro (EA, CPA or Attorney) has a conflict of interest because both parties have differing interests. There’s a process to resolve that and if it wasnt followed, she can make a complaint against the CPA to the IRS Office of Professional Responsibility. No credentialed tax pro is risking sanction or losing the ability to practice before IRS for these irresponsible folks.
Second, there is zero evidence the CPA didnt prepare a proper married filing joint return. Seven years is $15,000 a year - not earth shattering.
Third, what efforts did divorce attorney make to advocate for a MFS return ie why did they agree or was it contested?
Lastly, her decree gives her right to seek it from the ex if she pays it all.
This caller needs to grow up and start adulting. She has two choices - enter into an installment agreement with the IRS after paying over the $55,000 or keep fighting losing battles.
She’s not buying a house with $100 k of IRS debt
@@briandfallon74
My experiences are personal and I do have a few sparring with taxes and needed representation, but I think you have summarized it in your lengthy post here. We don't have all the information and definitely not the information to answer the questions you just asked. Another thing is based on your comments you assume she didn't pay any taxes on her income. If she is like most scenarios then she worked a "job" which did take taxes out on her behalf so there is a terminology mistake. She most likely paid her taxes but didn't file them. If she would have filed separately then she should have been in the clear (besides the penalties for late filing etc). Other than saber rattling and trying to flex your "authority" I fail to see any point you are trying to make.
Why didn't the judge make them file separately using their own accountants? You say you are from the IRS but in all reality it has little to do with local courts and family law. As a contractor I am in local courts more than a few times a year and see many judges acting on emotion and overstepping the scope of the case.
People get loans all the time with tax debt. You are also forgetting that she has a new spouse who doesn't have the tax debt so he is perfectly capable of obtaining the mortgage without her as long as he has enough income.
@@electricalsociety5593 my point is you are drawing conclusions without the facts.
I spent 15 years at IRS and now have a private EA practice. This called has very typical statements of someone that is irresponsible. She could have avoided the whole thing at the start of 7 years of non compliance with a grown up conversation with the ex: “Since you arent ready to file taxes, I’m filing a separate return.” She’d not be in this problem - it’s self created. She’s now doubling down by ignoring the tax debt, while building a healthy cash account and becoming “debt free.” She needs to pay.
You posit somehow a new CPA will get a different result. The IRS prohibits a tax payer from amending from MFJ to MFS after the original due date of the return and innocent spouse is not applicable - she has no evidence she was duped. She needs to grow up and pay.
On courts, I do believe local judges issue orders about a lot of things they cant control - but well intentioned folks rely on that for, say claiming a dependent or dividing up tax debt. The IRS isnt bound by a state court decision.
The new spouse may very well qualify for the mortgage on his own. In that type of case, with the facts presented in the call, if he alone buys a house using the $55,000, if a Revenue Officer is assigned, the new spouse will likely find a special condition Notice of Federal Tax Lien naming him a nominee of his spouse and the IRS asserting a lien interest in the real estate.
Then it starts to get real sporty as the IRS has the legal authority to file a suit to foreclose the tax lien in federal court.
She can go your route and continue to delay and evade or she can go my route to pay over the $55,000 and enter into an installment agreement.
If she goes my route, life gets easier. If she goes your route, it’s exponentially more difficult.
I don’t agree with Dave she is responsible for the taxes,she was just not paying attention to their taxes. I say make a offer in compromise and hire a tax attorney to settle and move on.
Man the guy who married her took on some serious responsibility
i'm no champion for the IRS, but if you legitimately owe $100k you've been dodging your taxes due and need to pay in full or else the money will affect everyone that DOES pay their as they should.
She married rich. Just pay it.
This might be an elected, layman probate judge. I had to deal with one when my dad passed. He was corrupt, abusive of his power, and utterly ignorant of the law.
Why does Dave suddenly change his tune on we during the marriage. There is no “his” business when they were married.
Innocent spouse can only be used if she had no clue her ex was understating his income. From what the caller stated in this call that assertion would not hold any merit. If she had filed separately initially then maybe she could claim innocent spouse, however she never filed her taxes.
Also Dave did not consider what type of entity the business was and whether she was employed by the ex husband or part owner. He also did not think about whether she is in a community property state or not
If she filed a separate return with her own income only, there would never be innocent spouse because she’s not liable for her spouse’s debt
That $100K would appear to include the taxes from her income too. I don't think she paid an amount and is now talking about just the business. They got hit with $100K bill for all their joint shenanigans, I'd think. Joint filing for those 7 years. Good on the judge for giving her some "adulting".
Just went through a divorce with a similar woman. Spent every dollar she could the business made but didn't understand how the debt was half hers
but what’s her household income?
Why is she acting like a victim? She absolutely is responsible for half
Because that’s what entitled women do
No, sounds like 40%. She isn't acting like a victim and admitted she messed up right at the beginning. Question is, why are you twisting reality?
I apologize. I didn't mean to offend your mother. Based on your emotional response I am guessing you are related to her. Otherwise, you would be rationale enough to understand that a comment section is for comments, and I am sure I have a right to my opinion.@@dudeorduuude5211
@@dudeorduuude5211 I think we found the new husband 😂
She is a liar, nothing adds up here
Thus the divorce. The ex husband dodged a bullet.
Could you imagine the story she spun and probably still spinning to her new husband?
I love me some Dave Ramsey, but seriously? Saying she's not liable for his taxes??? They were Married and jointly decided To NOT Pay Their Taxes! Smh on this one.
A spouse only typically qualifies for innocent spouse if they determine one spouse did not benefit from the income which caused the tax liability. It sounds like she did benefit, so good luck with the Innocent Spouse application.
They’ll never get to that because there is zero allegation of understatement, concealment or error on the part of the other spouse.
Opposite was true - she was involved.
She owes; pay up
Love to the judge, unlike Dave the king of simp.
Spend 10k to maybe save 40k and stretch this thing out and deal w added daily stress...depending on how mich she makes would be better to just pay it herself
Her ex probably had his business registered as a proprietorship (not a corporation or partnership) which means that the income made from the business becomes 50/50 income for her ex and herself. If she didn't file taxes for 7 years during her marriage then she is liable to pay taxes on 50% of the profits from the business plus penalty and interest. If her ex-husband paid taxes on his 50% of the profits during the 7 year period then this $100K debt to IRS is entirely hers. So, I think David is wrong on this one.
Is there evidence she’s in a community property state?
For tax purposes, a Sch C lists the SSN of the owner - even on a joint return. A married couple can choose to allocate - for essentially social security - half to each spouse, but that’s not applicable here as she doesnt indicate she worked in the business.
She indicated they did not file any tax return for 7 years. If she filed MFS, under federal law, at least four of those years, she’d be barred from amending to include his income. As she said she had w2 income, she could have filed separately.
There is a lot of complexity to this case and Dave is not the proper person to advise here. This caller should talk to her attorney.
A TAX ATTORNEY!
And I thought I was irresponsible 😂
7 years!!! Debt doesn't disappear if you shove it to the side. It's just waiting to bite you in the ass.
You can void uncle same but he WILL find you unless you die first lol if your terminal stop paying taxes if your in your 90's stop paying taxes if your anything else PAY TAXES...
Wrong. She is also liable. She also did not file her taxes either for 7 years. It was not just the business.
The judge said that she benefited for the business income.
Dave loves to say everyone is wrong.
These people love to put men down. And hold women up on a pedestal.
You lovr to say Dave is wrong. Monday through Sunday. Everyday the past 3 years.
Yall are more alike than you like to admit.
@@Tank-vi2dvMORE ON
All Americans ARE always wrong.
If a man had called with a situation of not paying taxes on her business, would Dave say that he doesn’t owe the taxes on her business? She admitted knowing they weren’t filing, even on her income.
Although he gives very good basic financial advice , he constantly encourages simping .
Begging to IRS for forgiveness can reduce your debt significantly
😂😂😂
She should have filed separately and just let the judge hold her in contempt. A lot cheaper way of doing it.
That's right lady, you put dat Dave Ramsey in his place!
1099c cancelation Of Debt form with a 1096 cover sheet get the IRS EIN #
Caller says it was his business, but was it really only his?
This is what I heard. Never get married again. The new guy needs to divorce here. Until she cleans up her mess. That is her mess not our mess.
I think a lot of people are missing that Dave is specifying the personal income taken from the business profit to be shared taxes, excluding dollars re-invested into the business, because it sounds like the ex-husband still owns and profits off the business
I doubt it. The IRS would've gone after him already.
My two daughters 30 , 36 both live with me and my wife they making really good money and avoid rent that way they could pay the irs when it comes to taxes
If they make really good money, taxes shouldn’t be a problem. They must have other reasons to still be living off of with mom and dad at their ages. 🤷♀️
She hit the wall AND got a $100k tax bill. Rough.
Avoiding taxes for SEVEN years just doesn't "happen." There has to be intent to do that. She seemingly wants us to believe she was too dumb to know what was happening. I don't buy it.
I’m confused on Dave’s take on this. In a marriage it is 50/50, at least that’s what I get from being a long listener of this show, so why is he advising her to not take responsibility of half the cost of the businesses she benefited from. Just seems off to hear him say she go back to court to get completely out of it. If I’m missing something someone educate me.
Ummm, this woman can't file for innocent spouse protection because she's not innocent in the matter.
Hubby 2 payin' that simp tax helping her clean up this mess. 🤦
I assume its dat poon
Men, avoid these divorced ladies.
How is the irs not garnishing her wages at this point?
The IRS suspended levies during covid and resumed collection this summer. It’s probably on the way
But is she safe?
Lol. Not you making fun of deloney 😅😅
“Can I tell you something Jill you are worth so much more then him” 😂 look in the mirror and say I’m better now
Whenever he says that the gears start spinning, and the women have to decide real quick if it benefits them to lie and say they're in danger to appear the victim.
"Jill, you can't breathe... you can't breathe, Jill. Life has hit you like a ton of bricks. I want you to take a deep breath right now then tonight I want you to grab a big ugly rock, drive to a swamp, and Jill I want you to throw that rock into that swamp, Jill. There goes all your problems. I had a friend who said something amazing once. He tol - and he's not a psychologist, just a smart dude - he said 'every 60 seconds....a minute passes...' Say that out loud. Did you feel the weight being lifted off your ample bosom? I love you, Jill. Call me."
@@robloxvids2233 lmao 😂
Why would she not be responsible for the tax Dave? You would argue vehemently for the whole income the business earned while they were married being THEIRS together. So she should share the tax burden equally. Dave = Simp. Always sides with the woman. Pathetic. Good job judge.
You can't change your filing status though?? At least that's how it used to be.
She should have filed separately from the beginning
Sorry, judge is right!
Tax accountant here. Innocent spouse wouldn't work in this case because that provision of the tax law only applies to filing future years of taxes. It doesn't work retroactively and since it's already been at least 7 years, it would be far too late to file amendments.
Interesting, thanks!
Just append the return with an injured spouse form, stating what was his and hers. Taxes are not "together", despite the "joint" status.
The court divorce ruling may have impacted this though...
🤔 100k over 7 years is approx. 1200 per month. How much was the business making per month?
Because for it to last 7 years it sounds like business was thriving.
Even if they only brung home 3k per month from the business, its not like the taxes were k*lling them? Just pay it!
Maybe her name is on the business.
Another scumbag not paying their taxes.
Calm the fak done
I don't believe a thing this lady says; and she also found a simp to pay her bills.