I had an Isobaric configuration im my car in the late 80s with 2 12inch JL audio subs with a PPI amp and it would crush cars with multiple 18s and twice the power all day long and the bass was real low...no one could come close to deep bass that I had
How would you know no one could come close? Did you have a contest with everyone else in the world and win? If not, then you cannot make that statement accurately.
@@jasonjrf Sounds like that system was what i like man. Back in the day I had a Chev z71 pickup with custom abs door panels for a pair of old school German mb quart 6.5 separates and custom kick panels i fiberglassed with 6" Atomic mid bass drivers and in the stock dash location I had these bad ass 4" and 1" tweeter pods mounted made by Advent but they were nice. I used Aria 25 watt per channel high current cheater amps for the mids and tweets and a Autotek Mean machine high current amp for the bass. All the amps were 1 ohm stable bridged and I had an active 3way xover for filtering. One amp did tweets, the other same model amp for mids and the Autotek for the bass. In competitions it was rated at 200 watt class total. My subs were 2 Atomic 1599s in a 6th order isobaric tuned at 30 and 60 hz respectively. That box hit so hard that it was hard to listen at its limit. It would hit 152 spl db with a comp microphone. It was a sound Q system, but it was good for most music. Best for rock. I loved it and got lots of miles of fun with it all. Anyways that was what I built. Later man...keep rocking
David James - maybe it was everybody at the cruise spot, all of his friends, whatever. I don’t think that he was suggesting that he had the most incredible system in the universe, and your intentional misunderstanding and comment is simply not a nice way to be to a fellow enthusiast.
I have 2 very powerful 12s with 4" voice coils that I figured I'd build an isobaric box for in order to save some space in my hatch so I put "isobaric subwoofer box" into the TH-cam search & I couldn't have been happier when I saw "budget bass head" had a video on this! I was like "oh snap! That's my man!" Thanks again for your excellent tutorial and explanation of yet another way to enjoy that boom!
running a sealed isobaric cuts your box volume in half and as you already explained the 2 subs working together don't have to work as hard but you left out equals ....better sound quality...Also deeper bass. Which you can really hear the difference in a small cabin vehicle like a pick up truck where space is limited. Win Win right. I highly recommend a pair of old school Kicker Solobarics due to their design (there's a reason why they're called Solobarics). Or just any heavily worn out pair of subs that still work before you throw them away. You'll be glad you didn't toss them out. Very very simple box . Half the sealed volume required for just one of the subs. Simple as that
I can see that you did this here video six years ago but I just came across it. Great channel, helped me understand a lot. Just a li'l correction: Though "iso" means "equal" in some cases, it means "constant" or "unchanging" in other cases. For example, in this case, the pressure of the air trapped between the faces of the two cones is (or should be) constant, unchanging.
I like these videos a lot, you have a way of explaining some complicated things in a manner understandable by the average guy and I've gained a lot of insight so thank you man.
there's something missing at this explanation. The main reason why someone will use a isobaric loading it's just to get out the same performance as a single woofer, but with a half a space of the enclosure. In fact, at the same volume of air with the same voltage applied to both speakers, supposing that both are exactly the same speaker, you will loss 3db, compared to a single woofer at this same enclosure. But when you cut the volume of the chamber in half, you will get the same performance as a single woofer. The main reason why someone uses isobaric loading is to get a more compact arrangement Souce: Hexibase
Your explanation is correct. Isobaric configuration produces the most dB per cubic foot of enclosure volume, at the expense of higher power required. Not everyone can/will fit huge subwoofer enclosures, for practicality or simply for aesthetic reasons. Each enclosure has its own set of positives and tradeoffs. Ported enclosures produce the most DB/watt over a narrow frequency range, at the expense of enclosure volume. Sealed enclosures produce the most DB/Watt over a wider frequency range in a smaller (than ported) enclosure, at the expense of more power. Horns produce the most db/watt, at the expense of being the largest enclosures. Open baffle dipoles produce the most accurate/Least colored bass at the expense of power & specific positioning requirements. And so on and so forth. Don't quote me though, I may have mixed up a couple of things there :) This channel is awesome, Hexibase is awesome too.
That’s what I was always told because I had two 12s in a 3cube box and they said you don’t have the box split up inside it should only b 1.5 cube from being iso I hadn’t had any experience it was12 grade high school and 1992 so they did well n people thought I had 15s but I wired them in series and also for the bragging rights I blew up the first punch 200 in my home state like about a month after it had just came out I was thinking about this and gonna build it with 15s this time to the size of 1 cubic feet area for just 1 of them the others I had both facing out so I think they will be in a suv so I think I will see how it works I guess I’m gonna be the same in db or get more? I think clam shell is the 3 db loss but if you have twice the cone area you stay the same or gain I know cone to magnet stays the same on spl db . If it don’t work out I’ll just make another the same and make them that way.
@@haroldhprittjr7007 - With all isobaric arrangements (no matter if cone to cone, cone to magnet or magnet to magnet) you do NOT get twice the cone area. It's exactly the same as one single driver, so displacement volume stays the same as well. It's really just Vas being halved when compared to a single driver. Things follow theory best with the tightest possible mechanical coupling (= smallest enclosed volume/mass of air) of the isobaric drivers which is achieved in cone to cone arrangement. Another advantage of the cone to cone (and magnet to magnet) arrangement is the potential reduction of 2nd order distortion. Most drivers show a slightly different behavior and outward and inward motion. This gets cancelled out in push pull configuration.
Honestly I think you could have done a lot better explaining what isobaric is. The push pull refers to the drivers facing each other and one is wired up with reversed polarity. The reason for using isobaric is to double the power of the speakers but only have the footprint of one driver. Some people say it lowers the tuning of an enclosure as if it were double the size.
The only thing an Isobaric configuration is good for is making any box half the size (except T-Lines). Two drivers in a Isobaric setup given twice the power you get the same SPL as 1 driver with half the power. You are doubling your BL but your woofer efficiency is halved. Double the BL=half the size of box for any given tune. The smaller box required a port twice the length to be tuned the same. You can make your ports smaller but air speed increases. What Isobaric enclosures do allow is double the boxes, so twice as much space for speakers. Or if you want a 15" in your trunk and it wont fit. But you will need twice the wattage for it to be as loud as 1 15" or be 3 db down. If you have 2 twelves you could have the output of 4 and fit all 8 12's with an Isobaric setup. But in general you can get 3 db more per cubic foot at the cost of 4x as many drivers and 4x the amp needed (otherwise if you have the space with the same amount of hardware you could have 6 db increase). Any Isobaric setup if taken apart and put in the larger boxed equally tuned counterpart will perform a full 6 db higher. Alas if there were any box that I would advise against this type of setup it would be anything where both sides of the subs have different tuning and are loaded. If you have designed your box for your amp and sub to reach your subs mechanical limits at max amp power (even if gain set) the cones will no behave well. I know it is done but beyond not having the space for 1 sub or the space for more subs it should be avoided. That little space in between will change pressures and substantially in the middle of 2 tuned chambers and a bunch of watts. The subs will not be doing as your math says they should do.
Great explanation! Reversing polarity instead of phase is the more accurate term. The distinction is becoming important now with FFT measurements becoming common place in system optimization to avoid confusion.
Isobaric configurations don't move more air, the pair of subs move the same amount of air as a single sub, but much easier and more efficient. This means that you can use a smaller enclosure because the air-spring formed by the enclosure and port can be tighter. You can also use a smaller amp because the efficiency is better due to the double motor structure. It was popular in the older days because SQ classes were limited by power output of amps. With this configuration you could get small enclosures for more control, yet have solid impact due to stronger motor output, and still use a small amp due to lowered efficiency.
Isobaric was the solution for me to get my two 18" into my very small car. Even one DC XL 18 wouldn't be happy with the space I can provede. Good thing I had another one. Thanks for that video!!!
Went to this to understand thermodynamics and it helped. Especially with the picture and going over the drivers as in the components of the system(also frequencies was cool to think of as well.. Could be wrong because I’m a bit ignorant. Thanks!
Not the loudest system but most memorable old school ISO sub setup I can remember was in early 90's, 12 x 15" JL Audio Subs in a 4th Order, powered by 12 PPI 2150 amps (not sure how it was wired but guessing roughly 3500 watts). It was built by Speaker Warehouse in Miami. By today's standards not a lot of power for 12 15"s, but it was so full down low, in its day I hadn't heard anything that came close.
Isobaric is great cause you can design a box that covers both the low bass and higher punchy bass in one box . one side has a long ported deep box and the other is smaller with shorter ports ,its really the only reason I would build a isobaric box and why I love them so much they sound awesome when built properly and the speaker is protected inside away form being damaged . I really don't know why more manufactures dont build these type of boxes .
The only isobaric I head was 4 old school jbl 15's the single magnent 40 or 50 pounders or whatever they were in the mid 90's. Nowhere is how it went 2 were inverted no box and 2 under them in a tuned ported chamber. Where the back seat was origionally. In a Honda prelude si. Running off a hyphonix or however you spell it amp. I believe it pushed around 2000 watts. 2 batteries optima red top 2 caps and stinger 200 amp alt. Anyway it recorded 155 or 156 range. Not bad for the mid 90's. Now kicker's first well second solobarics. Jensen the word basic. Had a TORNADO box specific to the kicker these were 2 10's running in a suburban with the biggest fosgate dsm I believe one to each sub anyway in the 90's. All I know was it was so loud it cracked the front window. Replaced it with a good window and brace and it cracked again. Then went in the lexan stuff. But anyway amazing for 2 10's. Isobaric loud as all get out.
I think the 1990s will always be referenced as the Basshead Golden era. 🤟 I got introduced to playing loud bass back in 1994 my uncle had a 1986 Ford mustang with 8/8 inch Kickers.
The beauty of isobaric design, is the mechanical noise is not obvious, but in a wrong port area, the port noize is horrible when played loud. The efficiency is remarkable.
mate your wicked! First video of yours ive watched, I know all that you've said but the break down in brilliant, many terminologies used love it, am a pc tech that works with old people all the time. you are an amazing teacher! Keep it going thank you xxx
I've never heard one play low bass but I have heard one play midbass and it was a monster bass sound 2/8 inch Rockford Fosgate subwoofer the box is very small but the bass was ridiculous so you know about the low in I know about the mid end in and the high-end I'm trying to combine the two, if you know of a configuration to combine the two please elaborate most people have never seen this configuration have no idea what it is but it's been out since the 80s and in a ported enclosure you don't have to have a lot of power to produce big sound it makes a 150 watt amp sound like it's putting out 300 watts easily! ! !
the first minute of this video is concise and easy to understand but after that i don't know what happened but the subsequent nine minutes is spent in the most confusing way possible to say that with isobaric you face two woofer into each other and wire one backwards. if you decide to make a video on solobaric you might want to dumb it down a little so it's a little less confusing, just a suggestion.....
Hey man, Im building a cylindrical enclosure with curved acrylic viewing window mounted from the inside....to make visable the two 12" Kenwood's facing each other. The kicker (no pun) is that youll be looking at a sealed glowing center tube thats axtually double fluted, and shaped like two tornados with tails touching in the middle. Theres no additional performance benefit that Im aware of, but I got that double-tornado shape of aerospace-grade acrylic from work, where wed been testing a process for it, and ended up with something crazy once. Ill send you a link by next week after Ive got to a section in the assembly when Ive got the time to edit sonething together. I'll say this...just to use that one cool element, has brought into play some math I had to leave overnight to run on a Wind Tunnel supercomputer at NASA to be done by 8am the next morning. calculating air volumn within the middle sealed space against the effeciency of air movement between the cones (which are also a third and forth tornado shape that must be factored) was beyond me. Ill get away with the run time by filing a use-form around a study on aucustics or something, so thats the priority before posting a video about it.....as will making sure I dont blow something up...and not tape it. That said, that was the best explaination Ive heard ANYBODY ever give on isoberic bandpass enclosures. Or the principals behind it which are relevent in many different disciplines. Its so easy to drift to either towards the science, or not go into it enough. In 10 minutes you touched on every essential point, and Id imagine most people to leave being confident they can build one...and will have the skills. Thats hard to do, to have them absorb the knowlege, and to also speak on the same level as your listener without speaking "down". So, "Well Done" If my opinion has anything to say about it. And loved the use of CAD to illustrate the presentation. A+
Hello I have 2 10s kicker compvr hook up to a hifonics feeding them about 1000 w. With 1 hook up in reversed polarity. but my design is a bit different 1 chamber is seal and smaller than the ported side and I absolutely love how low and loud it gets.
I never heard, a ISO system, I have only seen pictures if them, I thought about experimenting with one, I have 2 sheets of MDF, and was thinking about getting 2 decent but cheap subs, 12" most likely, and just play with dimensions, and ports, I did have two kicker solobaric 15" subs back in the day, I'm thinking about getting a van, and putting 4, 15"subs in a 4th, looking for a tuning range of 25-80 hz, it will have about 8-9 cuft, and around 1500w RMS, I plan to use 6.5" or 8" woofers to do 80hz and up, maybe 10" woofers, whatever I can get under the rear seats, and 5.25" co Axels up front, on 150w with a set of 5.25" in the rear for rear listeners,
Williston Audio Labs. Budget Gem or Budget Bust here on TH-cam dynoed my JL Audio 500/1 and it gives a brief background on their startup and you can see it.
Hey I put 2 10 Rockford p2 in a tube made for a 12 it was 1.4 cubes in side ported I shrank it to .7 cause Rockford says 1.40 ported well I did the back to front and it was ok but I happen to have A12” sealed box empty and just like grabbed it and set it on top of the one that was playing out of the tube . Layer over the top to hold it on kinda air tight so I got port .7 sealed between them .7 and playing into 1.1 sealed ! Well there was a noticeable change and then I could really put more power on them . So I mounted it together and then seen the clamshell and wire one outa faze well that helped it even more . I like the fact about it is not one person believes you when you say 10s and they sound like a15 deep low bass un distorted the port is like 22sq inches about 24 -26 long . It moves a good amount of air with no chuffing ! The foot print it makes isn’t that bad it’s around 14x16x32 and the other part the bottom box sealed one is like 14x14x16 take that off the tube is only 16x13x21 but it sounds so much better with that on it
I'm going to do this with two 15" subs. One enclosure tuned to 32hz...the other tuned to 18hz. Hooked to a 3,000 watt amp for my sub in my home theater.
What I'm looking for is motor Force increasing. I want two $100 mid-price-range subwoofers becoming a high end 800 dollar subwoofer essentially.. because of the mechanical needs of the cheaper subwoofer less enclosure is needed than the higher dollar subwoofer.. example: audiopipe bd2 15 inch only needs 3 to 3.5 cubic feet vented and the sundown 15in subwoofer takes 5 cubic foot.. essentially running eight 15s in 12 to 14 ft of air space and saving$2,000..... what I need to know is the spacing between the subwoofers can that be made musically also... Meaning if I increase the size in between the subwoofers will the tuning frequency change
8th order bandpass isobaric is a hard box to build correctly. Hardly any audio place these days will have any experience with it and if its not perfect it'll sound like shit.
What if... We mount this isobaric config with passive radiators instead vented ports? I'm really curious about this setup but cannot find anything about it
Bose has patents on 6th order so nobody can mass produce them , gotta do the work and build one. I'm thinking of building Isobaric 15s in parallel 6th order like in this video for my jeep Cherokee if I can get the math to balance . big box but big sound ,also protects subs and HARDER for some lame ass to steal it and more time for me to get my thief welcoming kit. (Jacked twice in 2019) alarm disengaged 2 12subs gone each time. Heft and hard gotten subs might be my best defence . thanks.
I had isobaric enclosure in my car and still have and will never have it any other way , cheap pyramid 10s but they play more than enough for me and what kind of music i play !
Back in the day, anybody remember the box that was 4 6x9's in an isobaric setup? I forget the brand but it was supposed to be banging for what was being used.
The bubble body Impalas ( 94-96) were great for this. You put 4 6×9s on the rear deck on wood and it sounded like you had subs. The problem these days is finding one of these in pristine condition..
AKDsLB1 and isobaric configuration is to be used, primarily, when you have 2 very weak speakers. It really functions as one speaker in this configuration and it pretty much assist in the amount of power the the speaker has, in order to enable it to move more air; more efficiently.
Okay ... that configuration makes sense to me now. Thanks for the reply and thanks for all the great videos on your channel that provide some easy to understand explanations for some of these crazy looking configurations. Cheers
Wait 2 questions: 1) so this is basically a way to get the output of 2 subs inside a box meant for 1 sub? 2) since they’re thinking they are one sub (all these things equal), does this pain a pair of them 1000 watt subs would only need 1000 watts instead of 2000?
the biggest advantage here is motor force. The disadvantage is cost and lack of cone area. You could still apply the rated RMS power to your subs. This setup was originally designed for subwoofers with small motors.
What if you increased the space between the pink boards? Would it make them sound better or worse? They're sandwiched together in the demo, but what if they were a few inches apart?
Great question. in theory the pressure is supposed to be constant and never really changing so I guess it would not affect the sound much, if any at all, or the performance since both speakers would be in phase.
Isobarics do not always have to have 1 of the subs wired out of phase thats only if they face each other now if they face the same direction you hook them up in phase as you usually would.
I have two Bose 6 inch drivers from two subs I took apart that was thinking of doing this too but I’m not sure of the box dimensions. Do you think it would work good
sometimes you have to just go for it. Research other enclosures with 6 inch drivers and see what the specs are. Look at part stores with simular looking drivers and go from there. Good luck
@@noproblem2big337 I am not sure, but I don´t think they are isobaric, I think they are a dual ported design, probably a 2 1/2 way design, with 2 differently ported chambers. Isobaric is one chamber with 2 ports.
If the drivers are used in an enclosure that matches their alignment needs, but 3 pairs in iso would be much quieter than 1/2 that many in normal configuration, and the iso setup may be impossible to build proper ports for due to the tiny box they would require compared to normal (not compound) mounting.
Is there a limit on which type, size (diameter), size/thickness of magnet and the OHMs etc. Of a speaker that can, or may be used and would perform as sub-woofer??? Ex: 5 inches (diameter), 8 Ohms, 10 watts speaker with 1/2 inch magnet... Will it sound good if i use it on a portable Bluetooth speaker???
Any loudspeaker capable of frequencies below 50 Hertz is typically considered a Subwoofer. It doesn't matter the size of magnet. It's all about physical capabilities and implementation. Great question 👍
@@BudgetBassHead Okay... Then why fo some speakers have a capacitor or a resistor or sometimes both of it, on it??? What are those for? Does it make a speaker much louder?
Saddendude in my opinion it is not about how loud and enclosure is, it's about efficiency. But regardless, a 6th order will always trump a traditional ported enclosure; in my opinion. For, I would rather have my enclosure peaking at two different frequencies opposed to peeking at only one frequency. So yeah, I would choose the isobaric setup; to answer your question.
My speakers are isobaric they have 2 8 inch woofers and the go down to 24hz and the bass response is quite amazing anyone interested look up Jamo Concert VII
That’s not an isobaric bass reflex. That’s an isobaric 6th order bandpass. An isobaric bass reflex (4th Order) would have no partition and the rear of driver 1 would have the motor outside the box. An isobaric bass reflex (4th order) is a standard bass reflex with an extra driver and the box is half the size of a standard bass reflex box.
Title image shows "isobaric bassreflex" then you show a 6th order bandpass , with isobaric drivers. Then you start talking about people "don't understanding" something.
@@mikehileman9476 aaah... Ok. Got it!... Thank you... I plan to make a set of surround sound system sometime soon... Is it ok if I consult on you on what to do, if ever i encounter some troubles??? c",) v.. Because I'm sure to fail if I do it on my own... Thanks again and I hope and I pray that you and your family are safe during this covid19 outbreak...
@@johnfredericksamonte6696 No , I do not . You can find me @ Eastside Audio in Cincinatti , OH.Be happy to answer any questions. I forgot more than I care to think about... I am old , what can I say?
U don't sound too sure about how to wire one sub out of phase, sounds like you were sayin both need to be out of phase as well, nope,just one, and you just wire the one speaker right,and the out of phase speaker needs to have the posi and neg reversed ,too easy, great for when you don't have alot of airspace to play with
Well let me be the first to tell you it works very well and you can get away with a small enclosure my friend put one in his 240Z he only had two eight inch subwoofer Rockford Fosgate and they hit so hard it was so unbelievable that that small box for 2/8 and it sounded like that he had it tuned for the midbass so insane 80 and above is it with authority man it sounded as loud as 2- 12 in a ported enclosure it was ridiculous the only drawback to it was if the Bass Below 80 Hertz it sounded as though the subs was coming apart.
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I had an Isobaric configuration im my car in the late 80s with 2 12inch JL audio subs with a PPI amp and it would crush cars with multiple 18s and twice the power all day long and the bass was real low...no one could come close to deep bass that I had
How would you know no one could come close? Did you have a contest with everyone else in the world and win? If not, then you cannot make that statement accurately.
@@jasonjrf THE SHOGUN OF HARLEM! 💪
@@jasonjrf Sounds like that system was what i like man. Back in the day I had a Chev z71 pickup with custom abs door panels for a pair of old school German mb quart 6.5 separates and custom kick panels i fiberglassed with 6" Atomic mid bass drivers and in the stock dash location I had these bad ass 4" and 1" tweeter pods mounted made by Advent but they were nice. I used Aria 25 watt per channel high current cheater amps for the mids and tweets and a Autotek Mean machine high current amp for the bass. All the amps were 1 ohm stable bridged and I had an active 3way xover for filtering. One amp did tweets, the other same model amp for mids and the Autotek for the bass. In competitions it was rated at 200 watt class total. My subs were 2 Atomic 1599s in a 6th order isobaric tuned at 30 and 60 hz respectively. That box hit so hard that it was hard to listen at its limit. It would hit 152 spl db with a comp microphone. It was a sound Q system, but it was good for most music. Best for rock. I loved it and got lots of miles of fun with it all. Anyways that was what I built. Later man...keep rocking
David James - maybe it was everybody at the cruise spot, all of his friends, whatever. I don’t think that he was suggesting that he had the most incredible system in the universe, and your intentional misunderstanding and comment is simply not a nice way to be to a fellow enthusiast.
@@davidjames1684 no he had a contest with YOU, and put you to shame!
I have 2 very powerful 12s with 4" voice coils that I figured I'd build an isobaric box for in order to save some space in my hatch so I put "isobaric subwoofer box" into the TH-cam search & I couldn't have been happier when I saw "budget bass head" had a video on this! I was like "oh snap! That's my man!" Thanks again for your excellent tutorial and explanation of yet another way to enjoy that boom!
running a sealed isobaric cuts your box volume in half and as you already explained the 2 subs working together don't have to work as hard but you left out equals ....better sound quality...Also deeper bass. Which you can really hear the difference in a small cabin vehicle like a pick up truck where space is limited. Win Win right. I highly recommend a pair of old school Kicker Solobarics due to their design (there's a reason why they're called Solobarics). Or just any heavily worn out pair of subs that still work before you throw them away. You'll be glad you didn't toss them out. Very very simple box . Half the sealed volume required for just one of the subs. Simple as that
This! There’s so many haters, but my Silverado needs bass 😜 I currently removed the back seats and crammed in six 12”’s and an 18” 🤘
I can see that you did this here video six years ago but I just came across it. Great channel, helped me understand a lot.
Just a li'l correction: Though "iso" means "equal" in some cases, it means "constant" or "unchanging" in other cases. For example, in this case, the pressure of the air trapped between the faces of the two cones is (or should be) constant, unchanging.
I like these videos a lot, you have a way of explaining some complicated things in a manner understandable by the average guy and I've gained a lot of insight so thank you man.
there's something missing at this explanation. The main reason why someone will use a isobaric loading it's just to get out the same performance as a single woofer, but with a half a space of the enclosure. In fact, at the same volume of air with the same voltage applied to both speakers, supposing that both are exactly the same speaker, you will loss 3db, compared to a single woofer at this same enclosure. But when you cut the volume of the chamber in half, you will get the same performance as a single woofer. The main reason why someone uses isobaric loading is to get a more compact arrangement
Souce: Hexibase
Your explanation is correct. Isobaric configuration produces the most dB per cubic foot of enclosure volume, at the expense of higher power required. Not everyone can/will fit huge subwoofer enclosures, for practicality or simply for aesthetic reasons.
Each enclosure has its own set of positives and tradeoffs. Ported enclosures produce the most DB/watt over a narrow frequency range, at the expense of enclosure volume. Sealed enclosures produce the most DB/Watt over a wider frequency range in a smaller (than ported) enclosure, at the expense of more power. Horns produce the most db/watt, at the expense of being the largest enclosures. Open baffle dipoles produce the most accurate/Least colored bass at the expense of power & specific positioning requirements. And so on and so forth. Don't quote me though, I may have mixed up a couple of things there :) This channel is awesome, Hexibase is awesome too.
That’s what I was always told because I had two 12s in a 3cube box and they said you don’t have the box split up inside it should only b 1.5 cube from being iso I hadn’t had any experience it was12 grade high school and 1992 so they did well n people thought I had 15s but I wired them in series and also for the bragging rights I blew up the first punch 200 in my home state like about a month after it had just came out I was thinking about this and gonna build it with 15s this time to the size of 1 cubic feet area for just 1 of them the others I had both facing out so I think they will be in a suv so I think I will see how it works I guess I’m gonna be the same in db or get more? I think clam shell is the 3 db loss but if you have twice the cone area you stay the same or gain I know cone to magnet stays the same on spl db . If it don’t work out I’ll just make another the same and make them that way.
@@haroldhprittjr7007 - With all isobaric arrangements (no matter if cone to cone, cone to magnet or magnet to magnet) you do NOT get twice the cone area. It's exactly the same as one single driver, so displacement volume stays the same as well. It's really just Vas being halved when compared to a single driver.
Things follow theory best with the tightest possible mechanical coupling (= smallest enclosed volume/mass of air) of the isobaric drivers which is achieved in cone to cone arrangement.
Another advantage of the cone to cone (and magnet to magnet) arrangement is the potential reduction of 2nd order distortion. Most drivers show a slightly different behavior and outward and inward motion. This gets cancelled out in push pull configuration.
Honestly I think you could have done a lot better explaining what isobaric is. The push pull refers to the drivers facing each other and one is wired up with reversed polarity. The reason for using isobaric is to double the power of the speakers but only have the footprint of one driver. Some people say it lowers the tuning of an enclosure as if it were double the size.
The only thing an Isobaric configuration is good for is making any box half the size (except T-Lines). Two drivers in a Isobaric setup given twice the power you get the same SPL as 1 driver with half the power. You are doubling your BL but your woofer efficiency is halved. Double the BL=half the size of box for any given tune. The smaller box required a port twice the length to be tuned the same. You can make your ports smaller but air speed increases.
What Isobaric enclosures do allow is double the boxes, so twice as much space for speakers.
Or if you want a 15" in your trunk and it wont fit. But you will need twice the wattage for it to be as loud as 1 15" or be 3 db down. If you have 2 twelves you could have the output of 4 and fit all 8 12's with an Isobaric setup.
But in general you can get 3 db more per cubic foot at the cost of 4x as many drivers and 4x the amp needed (otherwise if you have the space with the same amount of hardware you could have 6 db increase). Any Isobaric setup if taken apart and put in the larger boxed equally tuned counterpart will perform a full 6 db higher.
Alas if there were any box that I would advise against this type of setup it would be anything where both sides of the subs have different tuning and are loaded. If you have designed your box for your amp and sub to reach your subs mechanical limits at max amp power (even if gain set) the cones will no behave well. I know it is done but beyond not having the space for 1 sub or the space for more subs it should be avoided. That little space in between will change pressures and substantially in the middle of 2 tuned chambers and a bunch of watts. The subs will not be doing as your math says they should do.
Exactly! Forget the video. All you need is to read this comment.^ Its more accurate and informative.
So in essence a ported is better than isobaric
Why dose he kinda sound like Steve Harvey lol
Almost like you can hear Havey's mustache lol
@@GarretSterling lol
Does*
Wife said the same thing
I was just about to post that lol. If Steve Harvey was a basshead lol
Great explanation! Reversing polarity instead of phase is the more accurate term. The distinction is becoming important now with FFT measurements becoming common place in system optimization to avoid confusion.
Well said!
Isobaric configurations don't move more air, the pair of subs move the same amount of air as a single sub, but much easier and more efficient. This means that you can use a smaller enclosure because the air-spring formed by the enclosure and port can be tighter. You can also use a smaller amp because the efficiency is better due to the double motor structure.
It was popular in the older days because SQ classes were limited by power output of amps. With this configuration you could get small enclosures for more control, yet have solid impact due to stronger motor output, and still use a small amp due to lowered efficiency.
you mean "higher efficiency" perhaps?
Isobaric was the solution for me to get my two 18" into my very small car. Even one DC XL 18 wouldn't be happy with the space I can provede.
Good thing I had another one.
Thanks for that video!!!
Went to this to understand thermodynamics and it helped. Especially with the picture and going over the drivers as in the components of the system(also frequencies was cool to think of as well.. Could be wrong because I’m a bit ignorant. Thanks!
Much appreciated 😉
Not the loudest system but most memorable old school ISO sub setup I can remember was in early 90's, 12 x 15" JL Audio Subs in a 4th Order, powered by 12 PPI 2150 amps (not sure how it was wired but guessing roughly 3500 watts). It was built by Speaker Warehouse in Miami. By today's standards not a lot of power for 12 15"s, but it was so full down low, in its day I hadn't heard anything that came close.
Isobaric is great cause you can design a box that covers both the low bass and higher punchy bass in one box . one side has a long ported deep box and the other is smaller with shorter ports ,its really the only reason I would build a isobaric box and why I love them so much they sound awesome when built properly and the speaker is protected inside away form being damaged . I really don't know why more manufactures dont build these type of boxes .
They don't because of cost. Besides, iso is for subwoofers with limited mechanical throw. Most subs these days don't suffer from that.
@@BudgetBassHeadwhat about isobaric with passive radiators? Can you do a video about this kind of configuration? Thanks!
Hey man great video! Super explanitory, and helped me tons on a little project I have going on. Keep on keeping on. 👍👍👍
The only isobaric I head was 4 old school jbl 15's the single magnent 40 or 50 pounders or whatever they were in the mid 90's. Nowhere is how it went 2 were inverted no box and 2 under them in a tuned ported chamber. Where the back seat was origionally. In a Honda prelude si. Running off a hyphonix or however you spell it amp. I believe it pushed around 2000 watts. 2 batteries optima red top 2 caps and stinger 200 amp alt. Anyway it recorded 155 or 156 range. Not bad for the mid 90's. Now kicker's first well second solobarics. Jensen the word basic. Had a TORNADO box specific to the kicker these were 2 10's running in a suburban with the biggest fosgate dsm I believe one to each sub anyway in the 90's. All I know was it was so loud it cracked the front window. Replaced it with a good window and brace and it cracked again. Then went in the lexan stuff. But anyway amazing for 2 10's. Isobaric loud as all get out.
I think the 1990s will always be referenced as the Basshead Golden era. 🤟 I got introduced to playing loud bass back in 1994 my uncle had a 1986 Ford mustang with 8/8 inch Kickers.
The beauty of isobaric design, is the mechanical noise is not obvious, but in a wrong port area, the port noize is horrible when played loud. The efficiency is remarkable.
Agreed 👍
mate your wicked! First video of yours ive watched,
I know all that you've said but the break down in brilliant, many terminologies used love it,
am a pc tech that works with old people all the time.
you are an amazing teacher! Keep it going
thank you xxx
Isobaric loudspeaker
often used to improve low-end frequency response without increasing cabinet size.
I've never heard one play low bass but I have heard one play midbass and it was a monster bass sound 2/8 inch Rockford Fosgate subwoofer the box is very small but the bass was ridiculous so you know about the low in I know about the mid end in and the high-end I'm trying to combine the two, if you know of a configuration to combine the two please elaborate most people have never seen this configuration have no idea what it is but it's been out since the 80s and in a ported enclosure you don't have to have a lot of power to produce big sound it makes a 150 watt amp sound like it's putting out 300 watts easily! ! !
the first minute of this video is concise and easy to understand but after that i don't know what happened but the subsequent nine minutes is spent in the most confusing way possible to say that with isobaric you face two woofer into each other and wire one backwards. if you decide to make a video on solobaric you might want to dumb it down a little so it's a little less confusing, just a suggestion.....
Hey man, Im building a cylindrical enclosure with curved acrylic viewing window mounted from the inside....to make visable the two 12" Kenwood's facing each other.
The kicker (no pun) is that youll be looking at a sealed glowing center tube thats axtually double fluted, and shaped like two tornados with tails touching in the middle. Theres no additional performance benefit that Im aware of, but I got that double-tornado shape of aerospace-grade acrylic from work, where wed been testing a process for it, and ended up with something crazy once.
Ill send you a link by next week after Ive got to a section in the assembly when Ive got the time to edit sonething together. I'll say this...just to use that one cool element, has brought into play some math I had to leave overnight to run on a Wind Tunnel supercomputer at NASA to be done by 8am the next morning. calculating air volumn within the middle sealed space against the effeciency of air movement between the cones (which are also a third and forth tornado shape that must be factored) was beyond me. Ill get away with the run time by filing a use-form around a study on aucustics or something, so thats the priority before posting a video about it.....as will making sure I dont blow something up...and not tape it.
That said, that was the best explaination Ive heard ANYBODY ever give on isoberic bandpass enclosures. Or the principals behind it which are relevent in many different disciplines. Its so easy to drift to either towards the science, or not go into it enough. In 10 minutes you touched on every essential point, and Id imagine most people to leave being confident they can build one...and will have the skills. Thats hard to do, to have them absorb the knowlege, and to also speak on the same level as your listener without speaking "down". So, "Well Done" If my opinion has anything to say about it. And loved the use of CAD to illustrate the presentation. A+
Hello I have 2 10s kicker compvr hook up to a hifonics feeding them about 1000 w. With 1 hook up in reversed polarity. but my design is a bit different 1 chamber is seal and smaller than the ported side and I absolutely love how low and loud it gets.
I never heard, a ISO system, I have only seen pictures if them, I thought about experimenting with one, I have 2 sheets of MDF, and was thinking about getting 2 decent but cheap subs, 12" most likely, and just play with dimensions, and ports, I did have two kicker solobaric 15" subs back in the day, I'm thinking about getting a van, and putting 4, 15"subs in a 4th, looking for a tuning range of 25-80 hz, it will have about 8-9 cuft, and around 1500w RMS, I plan to use 6.5" or 8" woofers to do 80hz and up, maybe 10" woofers, whatever I can get under the rear seats, and 5.25" co Axels up front, on 150w with a set of 5.25" in the rear for rear listeners,
Jim and Lou (JL Audio) did an isobaric configuration back in the day. 4 inline (8 total).
Williston Audio Labs. Budget Gem or Budget Bust here on TH-cam dynoed my JL Audio 500/1 and it gives a brief background on their startup and you can see it.
Hey I put 2 10 Rockford p2 in a tube made for a 12 it was 1.4 cubes in side ported I shrank it to .7 cause Rockford says 1.40 ported well I did the back to front and it was ok but I happen to have A12” sealed box empty and just like grabbed it and set it on top of the one that was playing out of the tube . Layer over the top to hold it on kinda air tight so I got port .7 sealed between them .7 and playing into 1.1 sealed ! Well there was a noticeable change and then I could really put more power on them . So I mounted it together and then seen the clamshell and wire one outa faze well that helped it even more . I like the fact about it is not one person believes you when you say 10s and they sound like a15 deep low bass un distorted the port is like 22sq inches about 24 -26 long . It moves a good amount of air with no chuffing ! The foot print it makes isn’t that bad it’s around 14x16x32 and the other part the bottom box sealed one is like 14x14x16 take that off the tube is only 16x13x21 but it sounds so much better with that on it
I'm going to do this with two 15" subs. One enclosure tuned to 32hz...the other tuned to 18hz. Hooked to a 3,000 watt amp for my sub in my home theater.
Your neighbors are really going to get to know you! 😆
What I'm looking for is motor Force increasing. I want two $100 mid-price-range subwoofers becoming a high end 800 dollar subwoofer essentially.. because of the mechanical needs of the cheaper subwoofer less enclosure is needed than the higher dollar subwoofer.. example: audiopipe bd2 15 inch only needs 3 to 3.5 cubic feet vented and the sundown 15in subwoofer takes 5 cubic foot.. essentially running eight 15s in 12 to 14 ft of air space and saving$2,000..... what I need to know is the spacing between the subwoofers can that be made musically also... Meaning if I increase the size in between the subwoofers will the tuning frequency change
Isobaric 8th order = best possible SQL widest flattest response design?
Yes, but not that efficient SPL wise. I’ve modeled a few lately, truly, they can be flat all the way at 15 hertz.
@@voidedspace5510 What gets the widest flattest response but is also the loudest?
8th order bandpass isobaric is a hard box to build correctly. Hardly any audio place these days will have any experience with it and if its not perfect it'll sound like shit.
As shown in your diagram ,does the dark pink plywood holding the two subs have a hole or is is a complete full piece of Plywood..
Sirji,.Please answer my question...
Yes
I have 2 isobaric subs with 4 x 12" drivers in each, they are a good match for my maggies
What if... We mount this isobaric config with passive radiators instead vented ports?
I'm really curious about this setup but cannot find anything about it
Bose has patents on 6th order so nobody can mass produce them , gotta do the work and build one. I'm thinking of building Isobaric 15s in parallel 6th order like in this video for my jeep Cherokee if I can get the math to balance . big box but big sound ,also protects subs and HARDER for some lame ass to steal it and more time for me to get my thief welcoming kit. (Jacked twice in 2019) alarm disengaged 2 12subs gone each time. Heft and hard gotten subs might be my best defence . thanks.
I had isobaric enclosure in my car and still have and will never have it any other way , cheap pyramid 10s but they play more than enough for me and what kind of music i play !
I really like these vids, man! Major props
Thanks for the support
I have 2 Sony 12s and im thinking isobaric 6th order tuning for 11hz and 44hz. Should be interesting
Back in the day, anybody remember the box that was 4 6x9's in an isobaric setup? I forget the brand but it was supposed to be banging for what was being used.
I think you may be talking about the Polk Audio C4 6x9's. It was called a teardrop enclosure. I think Big D Wiz did a video on them.
Yep that's exactly how the box looked with a couple of ports, right on buddy
It was made for small cars which didn't have alot of space and people still wanted to have some lows
The bubble body Impalas ( 94-96) were great for this. You put 4 6×9s on the rear deck on wood and it sounded like you had subs. The problem these days is finding one of these in pristine condition..
Does an isobaric configuration have frequency range or is it a 'one note wonder' kind of thing?
AKDsLB1 and isobaric configuration is to be used, primarily, when you have 2 very weak speakers. It really functions as one speaker in this configuration and it pretty much assist in the amount of power the the speaker has, in order to enable it to move more air; more efficiently.
Okay ... that configuration makes sense to me now. Thanks for the reply and thanks for all the great videos on your channel that provide some easy to understand explanations for some of these crazy looking configurations. Cheers
Hey man what would you tune each chamber to?
Ok now, if you put a port Between those drivers,
would that give you a Negative order? Thus producing Anti-Sound waves.
U A DAMN GENIUS MAN.
😀 Thanks bro!
So it’s like a ported passive radiator sub
So if you used 2 dual 4 ohm it would still read a 1 ohm load with one woofer wired out of fase?
LIKES2CRAWL yes
Phase has no bearing on resistance.
Wait 2 questions:
1) so this is basically a way to get the output of 2 subs inside a box meant for 1 sub?
2) since they’re thinking they are one sub (all these things equal), does this pain a pair of them 1000 watt subs would only need 1000 watts instead of 2000?
the biggest advantage here is motor force. The disadvantage is cost and lack of cone area. You could still apply the rated RMS power to your subs. This setup was originally designed for subwoofers with small motors.
Should I use 2 separated amps to push each driver? Any benefits I can get? Thank you
As long as the amps RMS rating meet the subwoofer combined RMS rating, it doesn't matter if you have one amp or 2 amps
so does this increase how low the system plays or atleast the output on lower frequencies?
thanks
Magick
On a box like this, could one theoretically tune each side differently? Like one side say 28hz, the other higher, to get a wider bandpass?
Yes. That's an isobaric 6th order bandpass
What if you increased the space between the pink boards? Would it make them sound better or worse? They're sandwiched together in the demo, but what if they were a few inches apart?
Great question. in theory the pressure is supposed to be constant and never really changing so I guess it would not affect the sound much, if any at all, or the performance since both speakers would be in phase.
Like the linear power bass vent,old school.
Is this design has been tested? And hows the result?
This design was introduced by Harry Olson in the early 1950s.
Isobarics do not always have to have 1 of the subs wired out of phase thats only if they face each other now if they face the same direction you hook them up in phase as you usually would.
In no way, is this meant to be a 'complete' explanation of Iso chambers. Just an intro. Thanks for the comment
I have two Bose 6 inch drivers from two subs I took apart that was thinking of doing this too but I’m not sure of the box dimensions. Do you think it would work good
sometimes you have to just go for it. Research other enclosures with 6 inch drivers and see what the specs are. Look at part stores with simular looking drivers and go from there. Good luck
My isobaric setup has one chamber ported and the other chamber sealed for best of both worlds.
From what I have read over time, that is the right way to do it. People say it is very hard to control a dual open cab.
@@kimhansen6384 I have a pair of Jamo Concert 7 speakers (since 1991) the bass is push-pull (isobaric) and both ports are open, it works very well
@@noproblem2big337 I am not sure, but I don´t think they are isobaric, I think they are a dual ported design, probably a 2 1/2 way design, with 2 differently ported chambers. Isobaric is one chamber with 2 ports.
10:00 its about SQ
@ high SPL 👌
I wonder if about 6 6.5" subs isobaric under a truck back seat would be as awesome as I think it would.
With the right amount of power, of course. That would be a killer amount of surface area.
If the drivers are used in an enclosure that matches their alignment needs, but 3 pairs in iso would be much quieter than 1/2 that many in normal configuration, and the iso setup may be impossible to build proper ports for due to the tiny box they would require compared to normal (not compound) mounting.
subbed. Great content!
Show man!!!
Actually one driver is wired in phase and the other is out of phase.
Is there a limit on which type, size (diameter), size/thickness of magnet and the OHMs etc.
Of a speaker that can, or may be used and would perform as sub-woofer???
Ex: 5 inches (diameter),
8 Ohms, 10 watts speaker with 1/2 inch magnet...
Will it sound good if i use it on a portable Bluetooth speaker???
Any loudspeaker capable of frequencies below 50 Hertz is typically considered a Subwoofer. It doesn't matter the size of magnet. It's all about physical capabilities and implementation. Great question 👍
@@BudgetBassHead Okay... Then why fo some speakers have a capacitor or a resistor or sometimes both of it, on it???
What are those for? Does it make a speaker much louder?
who would have thought to do this? I had solobaric sub. that supposed to sound like this. setup. I never really understood this set up.
So if you take 2 drivers and use them both in a ported box and use them both in a Isobaric 6th order box, which would be louder?
Saddendude in my opinion it is not about how loud and enclosure is, it's about efficiency. But regardless, a 6th order will always trump a traditional ported enclosure; in my opinion. For, I would rather have my enclosure peaking at two different frequencies opposed to peeking at only one frequency. So yeah, I would choose the isobaric setup; to answer your question.
My speakers are isobaric they have 2 8 inch woofers and the go down to 24hz and the bass response is quite amazing anyone interested look up Jamo Concert VII
Jamo are lovely , I have their 707i
Wat up d I need a box design from u bro how can I get one from u
Anyone ever told you, you sound so much like Steve Harvey? 😂
If I had a dollar for everytime I heard that... :)
BudgetBassHead its all good, meant it as a compliment
He really does. Lol
Plot twist this IS Steve Harvey hahaha
If "what does it mean" is removed from the video it will be two times shorter I think
I had no idea Steve Harvey was an audio engineer on the side.
That’s not an isobaric bass reflex. That’s an isobaric 6th order bandpass. An isobaric bass reflex (4th Order) would have no partition and the rear of driver 1 would have the motor outside the box.
An isobaric bass reflex (4th order) is a standard bass reflex with an extra driver and the box is half the size of a standard bass reflex box.
Thank you
Next project8 12s sorry I was typing out loud
I sub'ed you Budget!
sorry dude but why the hell if you have a 21:9 screen would you upload it in 1080p... this just blew my mind
Stfu
i like this vedio
Title image shows "isobaric bassreflex" then you show a 6th order bandpass , with isobaric drivers.
Then you start talking about people "don't understanding" something.
So basically, one driver should be wired
(+)to (+) and (-) to (-),while the other one should be (+) to (-) and( -) to (+)???
You have to have the cones moving in the same direction at the same time in a push pull, hence the name. But yes , you are correct.
@@mikehileman9476 aaah... Ok. Got it!... Thank you... I plan to make a set of surround sound system sometime soon... Is it ok if I consult on you on what to do, if ever i encounter some troubles??? c",) v..
Because I'm sure to fail if I do it on my own...
Thanks again and I hope and I pray that you and your family are safe during this covid19 outbreak...
@@johnfredericksamonte6696 sure ! Installed my first car audio system in 1984 so pretty confident I * might* have a clue
@@mikehileman9476 Wow, thanks... Do you have a channel sir???
Any way i can reach you sir???
@@johnfredericksamonte6696 No , I do not . You can find me @ Eastside Audio in Cincinatti , OH.Be happy to answer any questions. I forgot more than I care to think about... I am old , what can I say?
Iso = 1/2 vas, less air movement (smaller box,) -3dB efficiency.
Double mms, double rms,
Short n simple but very accurate...good job!
U don't sound too sure about how to wire one sub out of phase, sounds like you were sayin both need to be out of phase as well, nope,just one, and you just wire the one speaker right,and the out of phase speaker needs to have the posi and neg reversed ,too easy, great for when you don't have alot of airspace to play with
Well let me be the first to tell you it works very well and you can get away with a small enclosure my friend put one in his 240Z he only had two eight inch subwoofer Rockford Fosgate and they hit so hard it was so unbelievable that that small box for 2/8 and it sounded like that he had it tuned for the midbass so insane 80 and above is it with authority man it sounded as loud as 2- 12 in a ported enclosure it was ridiculous the only drawback to it was if the Bass Below 80 Hertz it sounded as though the subs was coming apart.
Steave ? Harvey
6th Order Bandpass - Skar VXF12:
th-cam.com/video/DerxD35vfWs/w-d-xo.html