Numbers don't lie when everything is the same, but the box. Keep up the good work, Sam. Everyone that is suggesting at improving this submitted box. Submit your design.. thats the whole point of this series.
Best car audio content on TH-cam for last 2 months. I would add some strictly traditional box types. Your small sealed, big sealed, small ported, big ported, 2/1 4th order, basically any prefab box to compare to some of these one of a kind designs? I believe that the simple design is going to be better then complicated design.
I don't know if the rules of your project allow but I suspect that that box would sound better if you oriented it so that the ports are firing into the corner and space the box back from the wall about the width of the port. I think this would have pretty much the same effect as the larger mouth. I built a similar box in 1990 using two 12" subs in a face to face isobaric. If my memory serves it was tuned to 25 and 65. I wired it at one ohm and ran it off of an HCCA 225 bridged. It literally knocked the suspended ceiling out of the demo room, but that also got the subs sold! We rewired it for 4 ohms and used a less expensive but more powerful amp and put it in the back of a Suburban. It absolutely slammed in that Suburban. We found that it sounded best with the ports facing towards the back door and spacing it about 3" from the back door.
My thoughts is when the air moves in a parallel port the pressure remains equal. But when it’s opened the pressure increase or decrease depending on travel. This then causes the air flow to either speed up (in) or slow down (out). With this giving a greater pressure out then the wave should be amplified further naturally.
I love this series, I'm in love with 6th orders as well! Love that somebody did this, awesome. I think clickbait is fine with me by the way, I was going to watch anyway! Edit: after watching, it's a pitty this box suffered that much from the harmonics and chuffing. Honestly, he needs better airflow, rounded ports would most likely help. Nevertheless, still fun to watch!
Nice! I wonder if doing a larger chamber for the low end hurt the score. Its good to see the testing. I am thinking the quarter wave tuning might be having the higher benefits for the cabin being used. I like the new setup. Thank you again for this series.
@@nnperformance76 when your port area is marginal, and airspeed is high, a roundover on the edges of the port (outside is more important) it can reduce turbulence of the air.
I wonder if some of the distortion you see on the graph is from the material the box is made of. Would be a interesting experiment to lay some sound deadening material on the panels to see if it changes the wave form. IE cleans it up. This one had the better looking graphs out of them all
I thought this also. I remember plastic boomboxes did that too. I know they make filament with a wood dust mixture, would be nice to see the original test box printed with it and tested again.
I did a whole lot of messing around on paper with 6th orders some years ago. I found a set of values that seemed to make everything fall into place. 0.5 - 1 - 2 - 4. Driver Qts = 0.5, port sizes 1:1, tuning frequencies 2:1, chamber volumes 4:1. Pretty sure that's how it went. Worked okay for me anyway. I called it the Badass Bandpass.
I'm watching this using my JBL Flip 5 with the DSP turned off on it, so I can see the passives reacting with the video in my hotel room. I think the low side might need more port area and a slight decrease in enclosure volume. The high side looks good, but could use more port area for more output. From looking at the graph, that's what i get from it. (I could be wrong....Acoustic loading matters.) Could also be the tuning of the high chamber needs adjusting to widen the peak.
I say a 6th order 1:1 ratio ported enclosure with both internal chambers tuned to the exact same frequency will end up being a good competitor to get the maximum SPL out of that little 2" Driver.
You should try a mini martin wsx sub, still one of the best hitting subs compared to other "industry stardard" pro audio subs on the market today.. plenty of accurate designs on the net, prob will be finding a driver with the right bl
Interesting. How much does driver selection effect the performance? I assume if the driver prefers a sealed side, like the mentioned 4th order, would there be a different result with one that is better suited to ported? I have no experience deal with this small of a scale and am just curious.
@Mr. Anderson 100% the parameters were set by the creator of the channel. Very difficult to design or cheat. However very interesting to see the results 🤔
Hmm.... the first dip in the impedance curve suggests that there might have been an air leak or something in the larger vented chamber, as it's higher than I'd expect it to be. Both dips should reach approximately the same impedance. And if there was an issue with the larger vented chamber, SPL at low frequencies would also be impacted. Looks like the box-modeling tool used to design that box also over-estimated the vent lengths required to achieve the target resonance frequencies. What are the sized of the chambers and the vents? Perhaps I can run it through Hornresp to see what it suggests the resonance frequencies should be.
Passive radiators are functionally identical to ports. So it wouldn't have any impact on the sound, you could just design the same box with a passive radiator
I mean bro in SPL, similar to what we are doing it's all about moving the enclosure around to see were the score is the loudest so yes move it into an odd position thx.
This is fantastic content, I would love to print these designs myself to test out, is there a way to get links to the designs? Looking forward to future content!
@@blakebrockhaus347 I bet that the 6th order that was just tested probably wouldn't load with any additional port area either, it was probably difficult to get the one Sam just tested to work also to get the parameters for the test.
IDK if anyone's tried it yet, but what about an expanding labyrinth design with the enclosure at 1.2-1.3 of optimal? Knowing that each solid surface a sound wave hits amplifies its output by 2-3db, why not take advantage of this phenomenon?
Is there any chance of getting YT/spotify/soundcloud links to the demo tunes? Been trying to find The Bakery but all the slowed ones on here sound wrong and it'd be cool to have the official barevids test playlist :)
This question of a 6th vs a ported enclosure makes me wonder if you are right I designed a ported enclosure with a huge port with a small enclosure.. so I can play lows. Should of tried it ports forward.
Is there such a thing as active ports? Ones that have a valve or plunger to control air volume of a port. Like a valve closes off the small chamber port at lower frequencies and vice versa with other chamber. In order to limit cancellation of frequencies. Or even combining ports together for lower frequencies.
I love your content! if I get time here ill probably try to make a series 6th order box for you to test out because I was planning to put my custom x12v2 in one. And I got one question for you aswell if you don't mind giving me a suggestion. So I was starting to plan my wiring and amp rack out in my car and I wanted to test everything out to just make sure it was working properly, my amps are the soundqubed u1 - 8000 and u4-500 and I hate the spark that happens when you wire an amp so I decided I was going to slowly charge up the amp with my variable dc supply however didn't realize the last project I was working on was at 24V and when I started applying current it jumped up to 24v and the U1-8k is in protect now. I have a good understanding of basic electronics basic electronics (finished school for electronic engineering at a community college) but we never played around with class D amps and the soundqubed amp doesn't have any labeled components other than stuff labeled like C5, C3 and stuff like that. I'm assuming its the preamp? but any advice on where to start with repairing this thing would be awesome!
I'm with you on the wide port. I can't stand port noise. I've been thinking about a 4th order with the port blowing through my rear deck but whenever I model a 4th or 6th order, it's never great, and doesn't seem at all musical.
4ths tend to have a pretty narrow bandwidth especially if you have a big peak. I read somewhere once that with series tuned 6th orders you want to have a big chamber with very high tuning for the front and use a crossover to cut the peak off of the curve and then you can end up with a ridiculously flat curve for days, at least that's how it should work. Lol. It works well when modeling parallel sixth orders, but that's modeling, and modeling never seems to be quite perfect. Have only ever built one sixth order, but any driver I am building an enclosure for usually gets modeled in 4th and 6th order just out of curiosity. The one I built was for 2 sa 6.5s. it didn't really have the volume I was hoping for, but what did I expect from 2 6.5s, plus it was a pretty small parallel 6th. Most likely would have been much louder in a larger series tuned sixth.
I think you may need to do a pretest for best box position before you record the test. Still have a lot to learn about enclosure designs, but my goal is to use my 3D printer to build a hybrid ported/sealed box that is narrow for my Tundra Crewmax. Currently running Two 12" NVX 124V3 each on a their own APMI2000 watt Amp.
boxes with 1 port play louder than boxes with mulitple ports i think. like i imagine it'd be hard for an 8th order to play loud, tho it would play very even i assume
Currently building same enclosure design for 6 15" EMF LOWBALLERs Duel 2 OHMS 1 chamber 18 cu ft tuned to 30 hertz 300 square in port area 1 chamber 18 cu ft tuned to 55 hertz 300 square in port area Saving for Sundown Salt 8 or Teampie 7500 Goal musical with wide band width
Can I get some advice or tips on my amp? I have a CTsounds Atv.2 3000.1d and I’ve had to warranty it twice already. Everytime it’s gone into protect and “blown” it was the same issue. It doesn’t blow while I’m using it, what happens is the amp gets pretty hot to the touch. I’ll be playing music perfectly fine, turn down my radio then turn the car off and leave. When I get back into my car the amp is in protect mode
18:49 hi Sam it is likely yours did better because it is a round port so less resistance on the air movement. Btw I have a design but don’t know how to use 3 printers or their software as of yet although it is something I am interested in pursuing.
Keeping velocity down on the ports and maintaining cone control has been a main focus for me. Also the end goal is an 8th which is done just havent been able to test it due to work. Will be home at the end of the month though.
Since when is he a master horn builder? Are you saying that since he's built a few in his time? Have you used his horns & compared them to others using the same driver/s?
@HashDogg06 just an opinion? MBE is a good box builder & has educational content. All box designs have pro/cons... Horns r my favorite. It is kinda like sports... all teams play the same sport but some are a bit better. 😃
The death box is awesome... however the constraint from the creator of 15 watts max,it won't shine like it other designs. That design will take tons more power than a woofer is rated and tunable. Low power designs take a different approach.
This is a fever project for me.. would much rather watch this than 99% of what's on Netflix
I absolutely love this series, I really hope it builds the channel 😊
Me too 😅
Agree. Sam should have over a million subs right now. One of the most interesting and informative channels on YT.
Numbers don't lie when everything is the same, but the box. Keep up the good work, Sam. Everyone that is suggesting at improving this submitted box. Submit your design.. thats the whole point of this series.
Agree 100%
I’ve been sharing the series on Facebook bass pages. I get so excited when new uploads come up! Keep ‘em coming
Best car audio content on TH-cam for last 2 months. I would add some strictly traditional box types. Your small sealed, big sealed, small ported, big ported, 2/1 4th order, basically any prefab box to compare to some of these one of a kind designs? I believe that the simple design is going to be better then complicated design.
Dude, I have said it before but BRO this is the BEST TH-cam series ever!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I don't know if the rules of your project allow but I suspect that that box would sound better if you oriented it so that the ports are firing into the corner and space the box back from the wall about the width of the port. I think this would have pretty much the same effect as the larger mouth. I built a similar box in 1990 using two 12" subs in a face to face isobaric. If my memory serves it was tuned to 25 and 65. I wired it at one ohm and ran it off of an HCCA 225 bridged. It literally knocked the suspended ceiling out of the demo room, but that also got the subs sold! We rewired it for 4 ohms and used a less expensive but more powerful amp and put it in the back of a Suburban. It absolutely slammed in that Suburban. We found that it sounded best with the ports facing towards the back door and spacing it about 3" from the back door.
What a great way to start the week with a Boom or Bust video!
You should print this box with flat sides to see if the diffusion pattern actually does anything
Neat to see how it performed. 👍 complex also. Agree the woofer makes a huge difference... glad to see B.O.B. back!
My thoughts is when the air moves in a parallel port the pressure remains equal. But when it’s opened the pressure increase or decrease depending on travel. This then causes the air flow to either speed up (in) or slow down (out). With this giving a greater pressure out then the wave should be amplified further naturally.
I love this series, I'm in love with 6th orders as well! Love that somebody did this, awesome. I think clickbait is fine with me by the way, I was going to watch anyway!
Edit: after watching, it's a pitty this box suffered that much from the harmonics and chuffing. Honestly, he needs better airflow, rounded ports would most likely help. Nevertheless, still fun to watch!
lulz
May actually purchase the plans for the wicked one box. It’s holding its ground. I have 2 FU-300 10s that need a home.
Highly recommend building that enclosure...
Thank you Sir
Barevids definitely the best content on YT by far
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Best Series on TH-cam
This is an awesome show
DOH! My boy... What did you do to my boy??!? Ha! Nice job. Really enjoying all of this.
Great video as always!👍
Series is awesome you should definitely do a video recap with each box in order from loudest to quietest
Would it be possible to add a spl sweep into the testing just to see the actual peak spl on each enclosure?
Not a bad idea!
Low end monster 👿 enclosure 12:20
Nice! I wonder if doing a larger chamber for the low end hurt the score. Its good to see the testing. I am thinking the quarter wave tuning might be having the higher benefits for the cabin being used. I like the new setup. Thank you again for this series.
He missed out to make chamfered edges but that really helps sound flow so for Spl it is very desirable
Can you explain? How much gain would you expect to get?
@@nnperformance76 when your port area is marginal, and airspeed is high, a roundover on the edges of the port (outside is more important) it can reduce turbulence of the air.
I want to see the 6th order series on lows seams to do good on demo vehicles
I wonder if some of the distortion you see on the graph is from the material the box is made of. Would be a interesting experiment to lay some sound deadening material on the panels to see if it changes the wave form. IE cleans it up. This one had the better looking graphs out of them all
I thought this also. I remember plastic boomboxes did that too.
I know they make filament with a wood dust mixture, would be nice to see the original test box printed with it and tested again.
New to the channel, I am very impressed
Sick video as always 🙌
I did a whole lot of messing around on paper with 6th orders some years ago. I found a set of values that seemed to make everything fall into place. 0.5 - 1 - 2 - 4. Driver Qts = 0.5, port sizes 1:1, tuning frequencies 2:1, chamber volumes 4:1. Pretty sure that's how it went. Worked okay for me anyway. I called it the Badass Bandpass.
Epic series!!!!!!
I'm curious on how it would perform when positioned as a c-pillar wall with ports firing forward
I'm curious about if a cone port vs a tube tuned the same. Witch one would be better.
I'm watching this using my JBL Flip 5 with the DSP turned off on it, so I can see the passives reacting with the video in my hotel room. I think the low side might need more port area and a slight decrease in enclosure volume. The high side looks good, but could use more port area for more output. From looking at the graph, that's what i get from it. (I could be wrong....Acoustic loading matters.) Could also be the tuning of the high chamber needs adjusting to widen the peak.
I say a 6th order 1:1 ratio ported enclosure with both internal chambers tuned to the exact same frequency will end up being a good competitor to get the maximum SPL out of that little 2" Driver.
You should try a mini martin wsx sub, still one of the best hitting subs compared to other "industry stardard" pro audio subs on the market today.. plenty of accurate designs on the net, prob will be finding a driver with the right bl
Interesting. How much does driver selection effect the performance? I assume if the driver prefers a sealed side, like the mentioned 4th order, would there be a different result with one that is better suited to ported? I have no experience deal with this small of a scale and am just curious.
The design is based on that driver and the only one you can use according to the rules. Of course a different driver changes things.
@Mr. Anderson 100% the parameters were set by the creator of the channel. Very difficult to design or cheat. However very interesting to see the results 🤔
Hmm.... the first dip in the impedance curve suggests that there might have been an air leak or something in the larger vented chamber, as it's higher than I'd expect it to be. Both dips should reach approximately the same impedance. And if there was an issue with the larger vented chamber, SPL at low frequencies would also be impacted.
Looks like the box-modeling tool used to design that box also over-estimated the vent lengths required to achieve the target resonance frequencies. What are the sized of the chambers and the vents? Perhaps I can run it through Hornresp to see what it suggests the resonance frequencies should be.
My slot ported enclosure I built fires to the side rear corner opposite the driver, and is significantly louder than rear firing the port.
Cool !! I love 6th orders.
Great content.
Now try an passive radiator enclosure 😁
Passive radiators are functionally identical to ports. So it wouldn't have any impact on the sound, you could just design the same box with a passive radiator
Maybe this is why kerf style ported enclosures are so popular these days even though some argue that it does nothing & is just for looks.
Sam what's the speaker that is used I wanna design a box and see how it does on your testing
I mean bro in SPL, similar to what we are doing it's all about moving the enclosure around to see were the score is the loudest so yes move it into an odd position thx.
This looks like the Bose 302 pa base cabinet design.They called it the Tandem
This is fantastic content, I would love to print these designs myself to test out, is there a way to get links to the designs? Looking forward to future content!
11:40 do you have a version of visions of the future in anything higher than 128kbps mp3?
Nah don't think so lol. The compression doesn't affect the low frequencies anyway. Just the highs and separation that get borked.
@@barevids fair enough, I appreciate the response.
I want to see a double horn loaded box.
Right like an old school bandpass, bandpasses are weird though, some subs don't work with them.
It's not surprising that a horn is in the lead. Especially with such a small driver. Is size limited? That box will be large.
@@MrAnderson5157 heh what part?
It wouldn't fit it the print volume. Getting a regular horn to actually load down to ~200 hz with this driver is tough enough
@@blakebrockhaus347 I bet that the 6th order that was just tested probably wouldn't load with any additional port area either, it was probably difficult to get the one Sam just tested to work also to get the parameters for the test.
Slotting that little box into a wedge top flare... might aolve that
Nice entry!
IDK if anyone's tried it yet, but what about an expanding labyrinth design with the enclosure at 1.2-1.3 of optimal?
Knowing that each solid surface a sound wave hits amplifies its output by 2-3db, why not take advantage of this phenomenon?
Is there any chance of getting YT/spotify/soundcloud links to the demo tunes? Been trying to find The Bakery but all the slowed ones on here sound wrong and it'd be cool to have the official barevids test playlist :)
I just slowed it myself so there's no link lol
This question of a 6th vs a ported enclosure makes me wonder if you are right I designed a ported enclosure with a huge port with a small enclosure.. so I can play lows. Should of tried it ports forward.
Thanks bro good job
X3 the total port area and build a series tuned 6th next!!!
I'm waiting to see if a p-flex gets printed to see how it stacks to the wicked one :)
?,? Not familiar with that design? Explain please.
Is there such a thing as active ports? Ones that have a valve or plunger to control air volume of a port. Like a valve closes off the small chamber port at lower frequencies and vice versa with other chamber. In order to limit cancellation of frequencies. Or even combining ports together for lower frequencies.
Dakousics made a Tesla valve port, one port only letting air in and one port letting air out
@@FSXgta thanks for the reply. I didn’t think of that. Cool.
@@FangOfTruth unfortunately. That concept acts like free air. & makes it more complicated than it needs to be. With no gain... hope that helps.
I love your content! if I get time here ill probably try to make a series 6th order box for you to test out because I was planning to put my custom x12v2 in one. And I got one question for you aswell if you don't mind giving me a suggestion. So I was starting to plan my wiring and amp rack out in my car and I wanted to test everything out to just make sure it was working properly, my amps are the soundqubed u1 - 8000 and u4-500 and I hate the spark that happens when you wire an amp so I decided I was going to slowly charge up the amp with my variable dc supply however didn't realize the last project I was working on was at 24V and when I started applying current it jumped up to 24v and the U1-8k is in protect now. I have a good understanding of basic electronics basic electronics (finished school for electronic engineering at a community college) but we never played around with class D amps and the soundqubed amp doesn't have any labeled components other than stuff labeled like C5, C3 and stuff like that. I'm assuming its the preamp? but any advice on where to start with repairing this thing would be awesome!
Hey man send this to my barevids facebook page I'll give some advice
propper droppers .. havent seen that in a while!!
I'm with you on the wide port. I can't stand port noise. I've been thinking about a 4th order with the port blowing through my rear deck but whenever I model a 4th or 6th order, it's never great, and doesn't seem at all musical.
4ths tend to have a pretty narrow bandwidth especially if you have a big peak.
I read somewhere once that with series tuned 6th orders you want to have a big chamber with very high tuning for the front and use a crossover to cut the peak off of the curve and then you can end up with a ridiculously flat curve for days, at least that's how it should work. Lol. It works well when modeling parallel sixth orders, but that's modeling, and modeling never seems to be quite perfect. Have only ever built one sixth order, but any driver I am building an enclosure for usually gets modeled in 4th and 6th order just out of curiosity. The one I built was for 2 sa 6.5s. it didn't really have the volume I was hoping for, but what did I expect from 2 6.5s, plus it was a pretty small parallel 6th. Most likely would have been much louder in a larger series tuned sixth.
I think you may need to do a pretest for best box position before you record the test.
Still have a lot to learn about enclosure designs, but my goal is to use my 3D printer to build a hybrid ported/sealed box that is narrow for my Tundra Crewmax. Currently running Two 12" NVX 124V3 each on a their own APMI2000 watt Amp.
I do pretest for most of the boxes! For this one, there was only one orientation that made sense though 😎
@@barevids
You doing these tests are super cool and very informative for everyone! Thanks!
boxes with 1 port play louder than boxes with mulitple ports i think. like i imagine it'd be hard for an 8th order to play loud, tho it would play very even i assume
Currently building same enclosure design for 6 15" EMF LOWBALLERs
Duel 2 OHMS
1 chamber 18 cu ft tuned to 30 hertz
300 square in port area
1 chamber 18 cu ft tuned to 55 hertz
300 square in port area
Saving for Sundown Salt 8 or Teampie 7500
Goal musical with wide band width
You'll want a lot more power than that! Get a powerus pw15000 or Bass 12k, or a pair of smart 5 or something
Can I get some advice or tips on my amp? I have a CTsounds Atv.2 3000.1d and I’ve had to warranty it twice already. Everytime it’s gone into protect and “blown” it was the same issue. It doesn’t blow while I’m using it, what happens is the amp gets pretty hot to the touch. I’ll be playing music perfectly fine, turn down my radio then turn the car off and leave. When I get back into my car the amp is in protect mode
Try using bigger gauge wire, shorter length wire, better grounds & up your
voltage / amps..
I have a box you might be interested in then. Its sort of horn, sort of ported. I can send it in after work
hey mate ive just sent in a W-Bin Sub with ported chamber and large mouth area
18:49 hi Sam it is likely yours did better because it is a round port so less resistance on the air movement.
Btw I have a design but don’t know how to use 3 printers or their software as of yet although it is something I am interested in pursuing.
Can i get the gcode to print this?
at initial glance it looks like they used nearly the same size chambers as I did on my initial test 6ths. I used round ports though
I tuned 145 and 263 on mine though.
now that I look at it mines quite a bit different
Keeping velocity down on the ports and maintaining cone control has been a main focus for me. Also the end goal is an 8th which is done just havent been able to test it due to work. Will be home at the end of the month though.
8th order next!
Hope we get acryl for demo
Yea, the average freq of the 2 is going to be the loudest, not just one side at it's peak.
Try Nicola's box!
I've found that 8 ish hz higher then the tuning seems to be the loudest
Do a collab with hexibase
Would love to lol
Sam is just gonna have to book a flight and show up to Hexis door with a case of beer and a gopro 😆😆
Shoulda chamfered the edges. A series tuned 6th would be just as good if not better.
I'm all about horns. They rule
❤❤❤
How did I go from watching videos of 6 18" subs pounding away to this?
MBE enclosures is a master a building horn enclosures u should reach out for one of his designs
MBE is a good designer 100%. However Not anything like Steve Deckert. And semtrical loading...
MBE is the man I have a bix built by him I'm very happy with it
thats funny.
Since when is he a master horn builder? Are you saying that since he's built a few in his time? Have you used his horns & compared them to others using the same driver/s?
@HashDogg06 just an opinion? MBE is a good box builder & has educational content. All box designs have pro/cons... Horns r my favorite. It is kinda like sports... all teams play the same sport but some are a bit better. 😃
Lol nasa t shirt, I assumed you must know?
Woops.not quite a Bose 302 as that one has two drivers.sorry
im building a 6th for my home theater sub. 38 cubic feet 21" 6ohm 2500W sub
You need a real horn box .
Paraflex all day..
Death box! Death box! Death box! ;)
The death box is awesome... however the constraint from the creator of 15 watts max,it won't shine like it other designs. That design will take tons more power than a woofer is rated and tunable. Low power designs take a different approach.
Test it without the texturing on the inside also!!!
It's less "farty" than some of the others.
i need to learn cad lol
Xocontralto van will be a sixth order
👀
What is the point of this? how does this translate into MUSIC
NASA. haha
My man, that is a TERRIBLE neckline on that beard. You literally have NO neck hair, and it looks wrong.
My stunning girlfriend thinks otherwise and that's all that matters to me buddy!
the 6th order series wins