Headstock spindle for DIY metal lathe - part 4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ค. 2024
- My DIY metal lathe made at home have the #headstock spindle now. In this part 4 video is shown how it is designed and how I assembled the spindle for the headstock of my benchtop mini lathe. The spindle is made with components that I have designed myself and made bespoken for me at a machine shop. The spindle is completed with two deep grove ball bearings and two conical roller bearings, they should hold the shaft of the spindle with high rigidity, hopefully. The spindle is finally installed on the headstock.
The next step will be the construction of the bracket for the spindle's motor.
I have designed the spindle's components for a transition fit tolerance between the parts and the ball bearings, the idea was to hold them in place with retaining compound. This was meant to make the assembly easier, but ended up to be a little bit more complicated, particularly for the contact with the front and back flanges that should also prevent the rotation of the shells of the bearings, not sure that this will work well.
Link to the previous video of the series: • metal lathe home made ...
Link to the playlist of the series: • DIY Metal Lathe - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![DIY metal minilathe [part9] Is it spinning?](/img/n.gif)
This is a well thought out homemade lathe design. From the ground up. It’s really cool.
This is the most professional fabricated/built spindle I have seen from all the other home made lathe. Not only does it have 3 bearings including 2 conical bearings at either end but it also has a central bore to accept I think 5C collets or 3 MT taper accessories. All the other home made lathe did not have this level of complexities. A credit to your level of skills and mechanical,engineering knowledge and machining abilities. Well done! I can’t wait to see the build of your cross slide and tail stock, I am sure I won’t be disappointed.
Actually 4 bearings. The central bore is intended to host a future holder for collets, but first I have to finish the basic features. Thank you very much for your credit.
Having those set screws press against the back face of the spindle housing is GENIUS! As I was watching this I was thinking about when I rebuilt the spindle in my work's Clausing Knee mill and the set screw to hold it at the correct preload presses against the threads ruining them and making it a real pain in the ass to get the thing in and out without DRASTIC measures!
Very good and thank you!
You fulfilled my wish because I could not find anywhere on the Internet how to assemble a headstock spindle.
I am very grateful to you because I had no idea about this, but I would like to build my own lathe once in the future. So today, for your help, I'm really happy.
Well, keep in mind, I never assembled a spindle before ...actually I am neither a mechanical enigineer, just studied something here and there, and used as best as I can my biological computer.
Very good. Your answer gives me even more courage and impetus to do something like this. Thank you! :)
Beautiful design!
Very good videos and explanations, You are very detailed oriented and precise.
Cracking good precision.
Absolutely Genuine genius!!! Good job from the USA
Thank you! Cheers!
Lot of pricision and love in this assembeley.... Ancious to see the end of the project ... Good lovely work
Thank you mate.
Very nice job, your patience is amazing, thanks for posting!!
Thank you! Cheers!
I’m in awe of this channel!
Its a TREAT to watch the assembly👌
Awesome spindle for a home made lathe
The most handsome DIY lathe in youtube, and one of the "real" DIY lathe of 'em all. I really like your standard. Keep it up, Sir!
Thank you very much
@@AccidentalScience снимаю шляпу передвашим мастерством и трудолюбием но один момент почему вы не использовали аргонную сварку ?
Wow thanks for the video, really interesting to see!
Nice Work 👍
This is a very good job 👍 👍👏👌
Hi! It has been a very very nice to follow your videos (many times) how this lathe going to finnish. You are so exact and careful.. I hope you continue these projects..!!! Thank you!!
Thank you very much. Yes I will finish that project.
You have given much care to your baby
I hope she performs well for you
THIS....I was trying to design a headstock like yours, using taper roller bearing; but, I have no experience 😭😭😭. Thanks for showing your design!
Cool video shot, thank you for sharing it, keep it up :)
I lovvee such movie. Thanks for all. You done your best explonation
Glad you enjoyed it
i like this very much.
very good and thank you
Like your videos. Great work!
Thank you mate.
Nice build best I’ve seen sofar
@@markscarberry531 thank you.
nice headstock
Great job 👏 Almost like my spindle.
Thank you.
Thank you
that head stock has some real heft to it i like it other than the size that the way i would have done it
So that's why people buy a lathe! It's certainly going to be a beast! What do you intend to turn in it!
I made a slant 5c cnc lathe with gang tooling a couple of years ago but I used off the shelf parts 5c indexer for spindle 3/4" steel plate two flange bearings a pulley with a locking system for the shaft a sewing machine 3/4hp servo motor and a sherline mill cross slide. Works perfect for small jobs. Using GRBLGRU for cam and Inkscape for cad. Limited software but Free. I like yours better looks more substantial.
Nice project. There was a time when I thought to make mine slanted, but eventually I opted for a simpler solution.
My compliments on the very robust design of your spindle. In addition, the machine shop executed your design nicely. I am curious about the ball bearing mounted between the tapered roller bearings. What is its purpose? The large tapered roller bearings are more than adequate for the radial loads. This also has me wondering about what alternative design could be used for the siliconed debris ring that would be more positively fixed in place yet still easy to remove. Options such as a ring with a thin threaded nut would have required that the rest of the spindle be reduced in diameter. I am very much enjoying this series.
Hi Hans. The ball bearings are added to increase the rigidity, but admittedly they are likely redundant and add some friction, and even more admittedly I followed the design guidelines for spindles that I've read on a book of machine tools design that I lended from the city library. As I've said elsewhere this is the very first time I designed something of this kind. About the ring on the back, well that is just a patch because I mistakenly forgot to design that part! 😱
One more thig Hans, the less the threads the less the problems and the cost to make the part. The shaft is relatively large to accommodate a future accessory to hold collets, nonetheless it went a little bit too large because an overlooked typo in the drawing ...my channel is named "accidental" not by chance ☺
The external diameter of the spindle comes as a consequence, save using very expensive low profile bearings. It's always a compromise between the expected performances and costs.
Cheers, Claudio.
Hey man awesome build. Remember watching your lathe series back 3 years ago. Now I'm designing and building my own lathe and had to rewatch your videos again to learn from you.
Was wondering If you had any section drawings of the lathe headstock on hand? Or maybe even CAD models. Would be very helpful on validating my own design.
I'll have some of them on my website which is currently under development.
that's a sturdy peace
Very nice and rigid design , it seems that it would be able stand tremendous amount of forces. Do you plan to use an ac servo motor?
Hi cytron, I am still looking for a solution. I don't need a servo as there will be a follower for the other axes ...you will 👀
Nós dó canal ferreira motos estamos acompanhando tudo. 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷 torno caseiro. 👍👍👍👍👍👍
A do it yourself lathe can easily get more expensive that a good 2nd hand store bought lathe. Many parts are premium priced when quality is needed.
Definitely.
👌
Why did you mount the bearings with that configuration? It seems you didn’t consider the overturning moment, a crucial feature of tapered roller bearings that may cause loss of rigidity. (Anyway, glad to see an Italian who speaks English 😉)
I am very envious of your lathe !! Really very good. I wanted to know more about the method of making flat surfaces .. do you have any links (or videos) to better reduce the subject? Thank you very much
I will make a video soon, hopefully the end of the next week. Also there are a couple of videos here on YT, they use a ifferent method than mine though, unfortunately I don't have the link handy.
Cheers and thanks for commenting.
@@AccidentalScience Ok, if possible show the various techniques .... it is a precious resource for those who do not have equipment like me .. Meanwhile I have subscribed to your channel.
You probably have the best lathe on TH-cam going for you I'm very curious how much was the Machine Shop fees in if you can tell me please
At the moment I do not remember the costs, maybe around €200 or less for the spindle's parts. I will disclose the full costs once the work is completed.
Good job! What country are you from? What are you planning to make with the lathe?
Thanks. Asking what one plans to make with a machine tool is kinda impossible to answer :) ...everything?
Enjoying your videos very much; thank you for sharing!
I'm just about to embark on a similar build for a CNC lathe. Could you let me know why you included the pair of SKF 1611/C2 seen at 6:55 in the video? It looks like the two taper bearings would work fine on their own; is it just a "belt and braces" approach (making doubly sure!) to increase contact between the spindle and the housing? Apologies if I've missed something obvious here...!😁
That was the first time I designed a spindle, so I followed what the big guys that make spindles do. Yes in short it can be said that the scope is to increase contact with the housing. The radial (ball) bearings have the function to widthstand radial forces better than the tapered (roller) bearings that in turn widhstand axial forces and their ability to bear even radial forces is exploited for the slight preload to keep them in center and reduce play. In hindsight I frankly would have omitted almost one of the two radial ball bearings, reducing the cost and some headache :)
Accidental Science Rest assured, I am >200% more lost than you when I comes to spindle design! :(
I watched a Robrenz video about a spindle rebuild, and figured angular contact bearings were the way to go; less preload than tapered rollers, thus less motor torque needed to turn the spindle.
I very much hope you’re having success with your lathe!😊👍👍👍
@@hamiltonpianos thank you. Angular contact bearings are top notch for these applications, particularly when it comes for speed performance. But they are also much more expensive. For sure if I were to design a faster and maybe smaller spindle I would have ended up to use those bearings. However as far as I can recall preload should be roughly the same either you use tapered or angular bearings because it depends to the axial/radial force that must be supported within the elastic deformation determined by preload, or in other words with no/negligible play. The advantage of angular bearings is less friction thus higher speed. My spindle is designed to spin at 3000 rpm max or 5000 rpm with a bath of circulating oil.
Claudio.
Don't forget to run-in that spindle to temperature.
Very Interrestig.
At my selfmade lathe the Spindle lays 250 mm high from the Bed.I didnt know how big the forces are by such dimentions.I have used for its shaft 55 mm round steel.It didnt work.Lot of flexibility and weakness and vibrations.So I have replaced it with an massive 80 mm hole steel pipe,15 mm wall thickness.The bearing take much more power,so I need a bigger engine for.
Bigger mashine, stronger building .
I have another project in which I have used concret for stabilzation of the iron parts.Very massive.But the Spindel required lot of attention and quality.
250mm is quite a lot. Mine is at 156 mm and I realized I could had put it lower by 50 mm, and I regret that decision. About the shaft I have no experience, this is my very first construction of such a thing. But doing some math the shaft should not have lot of vibrations, yeah, that's the theory. Mine is 55mm in OD and 38 ID, that was a mistake (literally a typo in the drawing!) as it should have been 28 mm. That's my real concern but at this point I have just to try.
Man, what a great job. What is the accuracy you are getting on your lathe? Do you have drawing for the spindle from this video? I am planning on building my own lathe. Thanks a lot. God bless
Thanks. The goal is 0.01 mm . I will post a video with the achieved accuracy over the various dimensions.
@@AccidentalScience That is superb. Would you share the drawing of your spindle too? Thanks, God bless.
@@luboshcamber1992 I will post the drawings on my website but I am so busy that I'm not able to tell when it will be ready. Sorry.
@@AccidentalScience Many thanks. Keep up the good work.
ottimo video.
per quanto riguarda l'acquisto dei materiali hai un fornitori o su che sito/eshop ti rifornisci?
Grazia. Molti vari posti. Non posso listare.
@@AccidentalScience nessuno di essi pubblico o con eshop?
@@mitt1854 if you are referring to the spindle, those are bespoke parts, they are not on the market. Other parts can be sourced from any industrial hardware store, but among those I know nobody sell online. About steel in 2019 I bought in bulk leftovers from a couple of warehouses in the area where I live, though I wouldn't recommend them at all! At the time it was a bargain, but it is no longer the case. In fact I'm looking elsewhere for better prices.
Have a nice day.
P.s. Sorry for the reply in English, but I stick with this language to let others to understand comments.
Why the ball bearing between the roller bearings? I don't understand the function a ball being might serve in that position. You are building an impressive lathe,
Thanks Gordon for your comment. The ball bearings are there to increase rigidity, that's almost what I've read on a book describing various spindle's designs. It is likely redundant and maybe also noxious for the increased friction :) I will start turning soon so I will see if I did a big mistake or something good.
Greetings from the Alps.
Hello Sir. I want to ask you what is the reason put the conical bearings face to face and not in opposite side ( like is usual 🙄) 🤔! Thanks for your eventually answer. Regards 🙋
Look carefully at the video, notice how the outer holding rings work. That's the answer.
🔧😊👍
Hello,do you have a video where you make the spindle?Thank you very much.
He farmed it out to a machine shop.
@@MrSunrise- It takes a lathe to make a lathe.
I am curious about the cost of your build vs buying a used lathe?
Precision machining of single part is not cheap.
Used lathes in decent condition do come up in 1500-2500 range.
This is an excellent, well executed project, but I am curious about your make vs buy considerations before you started?
I did. The answer is a bit ...convoluted, and I prefer to provide that answer in the final video of the series. Hope you won't be disappointed for this reply. Merry Christmas.
@@AccidentalScience
Joyeux Noël à toi et à ta famille
Belo projeto.De quanto é o furo do eixo árvore ?
38mm ...foi um erro, porque um erro de digitação no desenho deve ser de 33 mm
How will you get the gap between the bearings?
They are tightened by the external discs, if I correctly got your question.
I have 2 questions
1. did you check the grade/class of the tapered bearings?
2. did you check for the TIR of rotation? I think how round your turned parts will be is based on the bearings class and the assembly, let me know, thanks
Standard bearings there. I asked for higher class (P4) but the dealer simply p*sd me off for just 2 pieces, and asking for €240 ...each! Anyway total run out at the spindle's shaft is about 40 microns. What do you think?
I've seen the object featured in your videos, are you actually making them? They are really nice.
@@AccidentalScience 40 microns?
that is way way too much, I dont think you will accept that off roundness on your turned parts, however measuring the TIR from the spindle shaft is not really true compared to a turned part, you will need to turn something and check it with both a dial and a 1um resolution mic, i got my standard spindle bearings for $2.24 each and i got about 7um in average out of roundness which is unacceptable for me and looking forward to replace them, the problem is that i found most manufacturers produce only standard class for such tapered bearings! only Timken that i only have many classes for them, SKF for example does NOT have, yes everything on my channel is made by me, i am very unactive here, you should check my FB page to find a lot of stuff, thanks for ur reply
@@GraphicManInnovations yes, I'm aware that 40um is quite high but I've removed the pre-load rings when I tested the motor and maybe I haven't tightened well them after they were reinstalled. I have to check it out. About the cost bear in mind that these are 95mm bearings.
@@AccidentalScience
it has to be tightened and have some preload, there are some sequence in doing it, tighten strongly then release a little and run for a while, then add the right preload again and run for a while again, you should notice a difference, if you can cut with ur lathe you should do this now not later, because every alignment will depend on it, now all your previous time consuming alignments have to be remade, but first turn something and check for roundness
What size is the inner diameter of the spindle? You are using 55mm ID bearings so it must be out of standard
There was a standard? :)
there is an open source and universal driver for servo motors available, cost about 100 euro to build.
i dont remember the name, but i can look it up if you are interested.
search for "stmbl" on www.github.com
Thank you for your kind offer, and for commenting. I already made the drivers, not yet testes though. I will post the build in one of the next videos.
Thank you for the link. As said I have already made the drivers, but I will give a look at it, particularly if it works with brushless motors (mine are for DC servomotors).
what is the cost for these parts? and thanks for your contribution
If you see twice be aware this is a repeated reply as it seems the previous one was lost and something went wrong.
The cost of the machined parts was about €180, the bearings €120, all +VAT. Not cheap. At the end of the series I will disclose the full costs and will tell why I have choosen to DIY instead of buy, so stay tuned. Cheers.
@@AccidentalScience thank you. I follow you with wisdom and admiration until the end of this series and more.
Back when I worked in a machine shop if a bearing did not fit tight we'd use an engraver on the surfaces and that'd raise up burrs. We'd usually make a bunch of Xs on the bearing itself. That gave it grip.
witam z Polski można robić w białym fartuchu i w rękawiczkach jeśli łożysko wpada to nie jest dobre w pracy przy obciążeniach szybko wybije gniazda łącznie z wrzecionem,przy łożyskach stożkowych nie stosuje się łożysk jako pomocnicze kulkowe co nie pozwoli się ułożyć łożyską stożkowym pozdrawiam
Hello. Google translate did not helped, I was not able to understand your point, sorry. May you rephrase in English?
Do you by chance have plans or 3d model for this build?
Sorry, no at the moment. I have 2d drawings only and some of them need to be redrawn to include corrections.
@@AccidentalScience ok. Loved the entire build process. Thinking if building a metal lathe myself. Would you say it was cheaper than just buying a metal lathe?
@@Demon_Mx2277 no it's not. But it could be more precise (that depends on your skills and equipment) and could better fit your needs .
Certainly you get the chance to learn a lot in the process.
Are you italian? Sei italiano? Complimenti per il lavoro fatto
Well, not exactly, but I'm living almost on the Venetian Alps. Ma so bene la lingua. Grazie per complimenti.
What is it made out of?
Steel.
Why did you isntall a ball bearing as well? Two tapered roller bearings are enough to support the spindle, the ball bearing doesn't have a purpose at all like this. If anything it could cause the spindle to be overconstrained. Also, the spindle should be more stiff if you put the tapered roller bearings the other way around (O-configuration), it's the favorable configuration for shafts with the load outside of the bearings.
I already given an answer, look at other comments. But I will put online another Q+A video, so even your points are welcome. Thanks for commenting.
I need/want a pool cue lathe.
How much did it cost to machine those custom parts?
Don't remember right now...around 150 euros.
I'll do a breakdown of the costs in a future video.
That's not bad at all, where di you get it from. I thought it would be way more.
@@davynolan182 I should check the cost maybe I'm not remembering what I've paid correctly.
@@AccidentalScience would it be possible to let me know, I would appreciate it, I'm building something similiar
Was wrong. It's ~€180, made from a local machine shop with which I was used to work with for previous prototypes. Considering the raise in price of C40 steel I am afraid that today it would cost much much more.
How many Maximum rpm ?
Ball bearings can safely reach 5600, but I think to stay well below.
Awesome job but I would like much more an italian spoken version
Sorry, I am not able to maintain two languages for the same content, besides I am afraid my accent is not much better in Italian rather than in English.
Cheers.
@@AccidentalScience Grazie comunque :-) Ho una domanda da farti, Quando hai saldato tutto il bancale del tornio, non potevi rientrare delle inevitabili distorsioni di saldatura con una bella fresata alle guide?
@@danielepatane3841 il primo pezzo ho considerato non buono, cattiva idea, il secondo attualmente è stato messo in forno e livellato con la fresa sulle basi delle guide, e poi ancora livellate grattando.
Dovrei mettere dei sottotitoli in altre lingue ma non ho tempo, e la traduzione automatica sucks.
I subscribed to your channel because I understand every word that you carefully say. Best wishes from Ukraine.@@AccidentalScienceI subscribe
Looks good except for those flat ways
where's part 5?
Hello 👋🏻
You probably have considered temperature rise and thermal expansion in your spindle design. You need a compressible component in the design so that as temperature rises, and the spindle increases in length, the tapered roller bearings do not get compressed axially tight. You can use a suitable wave washer or a high durometer O ring as the compressible component. Because the spindle will increase in length with temperature rise, your tapered roller bearings need to be a "slip" fit on the spindle, so that they can move axially anong the spindle shaft with temperature rise. Ask me how I know this.
Also according to SKF, the correct way to set preload is to measure temperature. Correctly preloaded bearings should run at between 60 and 65 degrees C. I use one of those non-contact thermometers to monitor the temperature near the tapered roller housing. I have to limit the speed of my spindle to 750 rpm to prevent too much temperature rise.
Very good point. I did considered the expansion, and my idea was to possibly pre-heat the whole machine or at least the spindle, at a given operating temperature before use. The outer ring between the deep groove and the tapered bearings should provide enough elasticity for the job, but the idea is to work at a near constant temperature when in operation. This should be achieved with a resistor and a thermometer embedded into the barrel and a pre-heat cycle at start up (the motor should start at low speed, slowly increasing the speed and, in case of need, heating with the resistor). As I already said somewhere, in hindsight the design could have been better, i.e. among other things, would the conical (tapered) bearings were in a back-to-back configuration that would have been a better solution because the thermal expansion would have pushed the internal rings away while at the same time the bearing would have expanded radially. In hindsight.
Anyway, the tapered bearings can slip axially within the housing barrel. I've read the SKF manual but I didn't found the temperature method, while I remember they suggest the displacement, torque and direct force methods (of which the last one I never understood). Beware of gauging the temperature with a contactless thermometer (typically based on IR sensing) on metals as that could lead to false measurements due to the reflection of IR radiation on metals.
I greatly appreciate your offer for help, actually this is the first time I venture into spindles.
Thank you very much for having commented, and please let me know what do you think about my idea of working at near constant temperature.
Cheers, Claudio.
@@AccidentalScience Hi Claudio,
Bearing life will be maximized by keeping bearing running temperatures below 180°F (82°C). See article in this link: www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30608/manage-hot-bearings
The faster you run your spindle the hotter it will get, increasing the axial expansion.
Rather than using your suggested preheat method (would be useful if you live in a very cold climate), consider recirculating oil lubrication with an external oil pump, radiator fitted with 125mm computer fan. The flow rate would not have to be fast, as long as heat is removed from your spindle cartridge.
Regards
Chris
Hi Chris. Sorry for the delay but I've seen just today that your last comment was held for review by YT for incomprehensible reasons, yet it happened to many other commentators as well, and I had to clear all the comments manually.
Cooling down: if required the top and bottom tapped holes could be used for that purpose I think. Good idea the radiator with a computer fan. Honestly I do not have experience to say if it will overheat or will struggle to get warm enough, it will be interesting to see.
Over engineered? I have to see what you do for a tail stock.
Так шпинделя нормальные не делают
Есть специальные подшипники, с которыми и конструкция проще и гораздо жёстче и не будет люфтов как в этой конструкции
Can you send me your blue Prince
And a material list
our kudibiny do everything on their knees))))) !!!!!! look! ( Живи не ленясь )