Regarding the 6% soft cap with 305 weapon skill. Here is a source that collected data during the beta: github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table#weapon-skill There is no blizzard official confirmation of this, but equip 6% hit in raid with 305 weapon skill and you will not miss with abilities.
Well this is a hell of a lot more of a response with my source than I thought I'd get! Haha. I'm working on this set as we speak. Was it Shadowpanther that you were using for the 15 AP stat weight on hit btw? I was getting the 18-22 from Oto's.
TO CLARIFY: Talents give 5% hit from precision, 3% "hit" from weapon skill +5. That's a baseline of 8% on bosses. That's 1% short of the 9% hit soft cap for YELLOWS ON BOSSES, and it's why "1% of hit from gear is bare minimum". That being said, every %hit over 9% needs to be compared to a weighted value of what you're gaining instead of hit%. To say it differently, over 1% hit on your gear, some people think that 1% hit = 15AP worth of stat value. So, if your piece of gear adds some agility+AP, if it's less than the total "ap value" of the other item that could have added 1% hit, you'd reason to pick the 1% hit gear instead because the value of the %hit plus the rest of its stats is more value. ALL THIS TO SAY: The new meta shows that going for 9% hit on bosses (for entry-MC guilds and longer fights 1 minute or more) yields more total damage potential due to the procs than you could theoretically get by going heavy into hit% for better white damage .... overall. Because the shadowcraft proc adds a value rating of roughly 100 AP (which he mathed out in a separate video) You're welcome
after cap, 1% hit will only benefit your white auto attacks, whereas 1% crit will help all abilities/auto. the AP necessary to boost your dps by ~1% crit is generally considered 20-24 depending on your gear (the better your gear, the more AP a crit/hit will be worth)
Debuffs have priority and DoTs like the Shanker will not push off anything higher priority than other similar DoTs. They won't replace debuffs like Sunder Armor or Curse of Shadows
How much t1 is needed to be better then shadowcraft? Haven’t really heard an answer to this... like how much more raw stats would be needed to overcome the set bonus it provides
so with 305 skill you will have a base of 8% hit right? so you noly need 1% from gear to reach 9% and not miss with abilities. 5 weap skill = 3 hit plus 5 from precision. is this correct? or do i need 6hit from gear + 5 from precision and 1% from 5 weapon skill still?
Not sure about the statment that first buff is removed. As far as I read there is different prios on debuffs. Have u confirmed that the first is removed?
You don't really have to run dm tribute for the rings , just find a hunter that soloes the tribute and offer him gold for the ring. If it drops he invites you in. I got mine for 40 gold:D
When 60% of ur damage is auto attacking in Sword, it's crap to go soft cap hit. Maybe only on dagger seal it Can works but even in combat dagger 55% of the damage in raid is by auto attacking.
Absolutely. I have both the shadowcraft set and the pre-bis gear, wearing the full pre-bis item set is clearly better in damage (14% hit, or 17% if I switch trinkets). If you just go with 6% hit, you're really loosing damage (I'm talking about combat spec here).
@@justindavis2024 "is way better" Nope, it's not. The discussion here was on boss fights. If you're combat (best pve spec atm) white damage is always the biggest source of damage, and Hit Chance increases white damage. I use shadowcraft 6/8 + Devilsaur 2/2 all the time, but for solo content and farm, simply because it offers more defense, dodge and less downtimes, but on bosses and longer fights the +hit simply wins.
@@crazyRyoga I'm sorry you're bad, but don't go around spreading misinformation that truestrike/mask/etc is better than Shadowcraft, lest you might lead some poor noob astray.
@@justindavis2024 Hahah, nice argument, "you bad, me good" Grow up, no need to get triggered that much by different opinions, or like in this case, simple true facts. To everyone else, +hit rating is better than a random energy gain, it increases the white dmg, which is, if you are combat specced, the biggest source of dmg you do to a boss (not the yellow attacks like the guy up here thinks), don't stop at 6%. And with this, I'm done ;)
Hey man enjoying the content, one thought. I understand shadowcraft could/is potentially stronger than the normal pre raid bis but would it not be worse because as soon as you replace a piece you either need to swap out one of the other two pieces you didn’t currently have equipped probably breaking your devilsaur set or lose the 6set bonus...
Sploops Mcgee yeah, I mean it’s fine if you get it and still get your pre raid bis but if you plan on raiding and don’t have items to swap in, I feel it’s just a dps loss
Why only stop at that low hit? Rogues most dmg as combat swords come from your white hits with slice and dice up. So the more hit the better. Guarantee I’m doing more DPS with 15% hit and 32% hit raid buffed than that. Sure 6% you don’t miss sinister strikes and Evis. But that’s not where your damage comes from. White hits are. More hit the better.
I never meant to imply that you stop at 6% hit, in fact the gear I am recommending will get you to 9%. I merely wanted to point out that Shadowcraft is better because you do not require 8% hit. This is because it would be difficult to have 8% hit while using Shadowcraft unless you had every hit item. It would also make incorporating raid drops more difficult because you are always on the edge of losing soft hit-cap. Dire Maul also helps, because now you can get 2% hit from rings, putting less stress on the 2 non-Shadowcraft items to have hit. All of these factors make Shadowcraft better than most (including me) anticipated it to be at launch.
As soon as classic launched and I looked at this set bonus I knew that it was going to be way better than the private server BiS list. No way do you need that much hit %. Sadly though, I have only gotten my hands on 4 pieces so far.
In stat weights (not actual AP): Bow: 3 Agi = 6ap 1% hit = 15-18AP Total = 21-24ap Gun: 14 agi = 28ap It's only a 4 pt difference. No need to break the bank.
I understand where you're coming from with the shadow craft but the problem is it's only going to take one raid and 1 piece of night slayer for it to completely ruin the rest of your gear.
The chance to miss a hit on a lvl 63 mob is 9% ok but what are the chances on a dead skull lvl mob like the bosses in MC ? Is it still 9% or more ? Because i reached the 10% hit cap and i still Miss some hits i don’t understand can someone explain ?
Skull mobs are treated as level 63. You will not miss with abilities however, 63 mobs have a 6.5% dodge chance that you cannot do anything about. If you are dual wielding, your white swings will miss until you get 24% hit.
I don't think it is since you'd need around 20-30% I believe for 100% hit on white attacks. Just get 6% from gear and 5% from talents and then prio agi/crit.
It depends on which pieces of nightslayer you get, and on what pieces of other pre-raid gear you have ready to equip when you drop Shadowcraft. Usually 4-6 raid pieces.
Im confused. In pve scenario, you need way more than 6% hit right? The 6% is just for abilities, and most combat rogue damage is from auto attacks. Is my understanding incorrect? Because I have like 15% hit on my rogue 😅
Need is the key word. You only "need" 6% hit (otherwise you would lose a very significant amount of dps), but after that you get hit when it is on good items. For example, I raid with 9% hit.
5 wep skill from talents which takes the required hit cap down from 9% to 6% (having 305 eliminates a factor that's in the game making you only need 8% and not 9%, the factor is that your first hit% is ignored or something at 300) then 5% from talents, making you only need 1% from gear to get yellow hit cap (yellow being abilities)
T0 6er is very nice but to random. In mc it comes on one boss for 6-7times 600dps owned all BiS Hit hunter rogues. But still have from gear 6%hit with 6 t0 on its enough..
@@vzdor5758 yeah i forgot u get a base 8% from precision and weapon expertise, I use mask of the unforgiven and cadaverous chest instead of the 6 pc shadowcraft and I use ancient bone bow for +11 agi over satyr's bow
so ive been running with 14% hit rating, around 28% crit and 690 AP. (all unbuffed) most of my damage in raids comes from auto attacks. i have been #1 dps (overall) in every raid ive attended since completing my pre-bis.i dont quite get why people think that going 6% hit in raids is better than going with a higher hit chance since most of your damage come from auto attacks.. if those attacks are missing surely thats way less damage that having your special attacks hit a little harder.. i mean were talking entire hits that could be crits not hitting at all? i have completed my shadowcraft set so ill give it a shot next raid.
Absolutely not, 1% hit is still worth roughly 15-20 attack power even after soft hit cap. However, soft hit cap is required or you lose to much damage. Basically hit past 6% is still good, just not absolutely essential.
@@Zatar I would argue on boss fights, since so much of your DPS is from White Auto Attack Damage (WAAD), that going past the soft cap of 8% and 305 Weap Skill is not a "luxury" it is a necessity! Dual wielders have a 19% chance to miss (with weapon talent), so going past 8% soft hit cap will ensure higher WAAD, and definitely higher DPS. In a theory craft simulation, I would bet on a rogue with 11-12% hit to do more DPS on a boss fight than an 8% hit rogue who has higher agi or AP.
ya this is the point i think a lot of people miss. getting 6 piece shadowcraft would be great but more than likely you will get a piece or 2 of tier which will make breaking the set bonus worth it.
I was in the same boat, I just ended up trying it myself in-game to confirm it. I raided with 6% hit and never missed with an ability. Here is a source that collected data during the beta that others have linked me to: github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table#weapon-skill
I figured more people would understand stat weights, as they're likely coming from retail or pserver where it's common. This comment section has been.... interesting.
Hit rating increases your chance to hit with white attack past 6% as well. Your white attacks are a large amount of your damage, so hit rating continues to be good after 6%.
Yeah crit is better than hit past 6%, however, not by too much. Once you start getting really geared, hit becomes important because you can reach a point where you miss so much that you lose Critical Strike chance.
attack power increases your attack and hit increases your chance to hit. they are completely unrelated... or am I wrong ? I cant seem to find research otherwise. please answer
@@Velaar that makes absolutely 0 sense. attack power increases your attack. and hit increases your chance to hit. there is no 20 attack = 1 % hit. thats not comparable measurements.
@@pokesauceemajin6622 Dude, it all comes down to the fact that attack power as well as hit chance give you damage. And 1% hit gives you approx as much damage as 15-20 attack power. With 1% hit you hit more often but with 15-20 you hit harder and it equals the same dmg boost.
@@AJ-iu6nw just trying to understand the data mechanics of wow. good shit bro, always try and make fun of others when they are trying to learn. I hope you make something out of your life instead of making fun of others on youtube comments. Salute*
Arent u still stacking too much hit? U need 6 total because of weapon expertise. U get 5 from talents and 1 from the DM tribute ring. Wouldnt you then be better off exchanging the bow for a bow with agi on and the other ring for e.g. Painweaver. My question is: why are u still stacking hit beyond 6?
@@Zatar ok, thx for answer. But youre still so far away from the white hit cap. What do u think? Isnt hit over 6 so low in value that it is better to go for crit or other things?
6% is really only enough for ur yellow hits. U still need tons more for reducing ur chance to miss on white hits. U miss ur white hits, u lose dps. Bad dps.
Exactly, if ur hit chance is 6% u will lose alot of damage due to a lot of missing auto attacks. If u get that 9% hit rate u will barely miss any auto attacks increasing ur dmg like crazy.
Hit is still valuable. It's stat weight is btwn 15-20AP. We're just saying that there are more valuable pieces of gear after yellow hit cap, stat for stat.
I don't understand this "1% crit from items is enough" trend since around 2nd place in damage will be your AUTO ATTACKS that rely on your hit stat, Yes maybe 6 pieces of shadowcraft is best when you are playing in speedrun guild that downs boss in 30 seconds but in reality you need to stick with standart dps items.
wait wait, ur saying that the reason why shadow craft is better why? I disagree. I have to say cadver set is better for overall performance based on DPS. and btw attack power has nothing to do with hit. I really lost u there. hit is capped at 8.6%-9% not where did 6% come from... just really confused about this information
1% hit increases your damage output approximately equal to 15-20 attack power for rogues. It is just a means of comparing items with different effects like you mention. The Cadaverous set has really only 1 amazing piece, which is the chest. The rest are comparable or similar to Shadowcraft, and the set bonuses of Shadowcraft are better.
@@Zatar you cant measure hit % and calculate it with attack power, they're incomparable data that are not related. thats like saying 1% mana regeneration is related to spell power. its not.
PokeSaucee Majin it’s just how ppl theorycraft ... they give each stat a static value that has been determined by testing .. he is saying that adding 1 percent hit to your gear will give the same dps as adding an additional 15 attack power .. it’s how ppl decide which piece of gear is better
@@pokesauceemajin6622 There's a range that it's worth in stat weight, just like crit. 15-20AP is that range after soft cap for hit. This is nothing new. This is how stat weights have been measured for over a decade. This is how you min/max.
Wtf more hit more dmg. The shoulders from UBRS first boss 2% hit. Easy better than t0 shoulders same with the head from stratholme 2%hit and crit. I asked so many rogues today and no one can say that this setup is better same with the breast scholo one is better
@@vonhoff208 no i dont cause every guy who i talked about hit cap tell me different stuff. I play now with 6t0 and still have from gear 6% hit. I love it when the energie proccs on a boss like 4 times
Regarding the 6% soft cap with 305 weapon skill. Here is a source that collected data during the beta: github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table#weapon-skill
There is no blizzard official confirmation of this, but equip 6% hit in raid with 305 weapon skill and you will not miss with abilities.
Well this is a hell of a lot more of a response with my source than I thought I'd get! Haha. I'm working on this set as we speak.
Was it Shadowpanther that you were using for the 15 AP stat weight on hit btw? I was getting the 18-22 from Oto's.
@@Rave.- I looked through many stats weights, and Shadowpanther's I agreed with the most for raid dps.
is this with the 5percent hit talent included?
No, in fact with 305 weapon skill and 5 points in precision, you only need 1% hit from gear to reach the soft hit cap.
just dont forget that you need 24% hit chance to hit EVERY SINGLE white hit. Just saying so people wont mix it up with soft and hard cap
Exactly what I was looking for, good explanation and nice source for the hit dilemma. Well done, will use this when I am 60 with my Rogue!
TO CLARIFY: Talents give 5% hit from precision, 3% "hit" from weapon skill +5. That's a baseline of 8% on bosses. That's 1% short of the 9% hit soft cap for YELLOWS ON BOSSES, and it's why "1% of hit from gear is bare minimum". That being said, every %hit over 9% needs to be compared to a weighted value of what you're gaining instead of hit%. To say it differently, over 1% hit on your gear, some people think that 1% hit = 15AP worth of stat value. So, if your piece of gear adds some agility+AP, if it's less than the total "ap value" of the other item that could have added 1% hit, you'd reason to pick the 1% hit gear instead because the value of the %hit plus the rest of its stats is more value.
ALL THIS TO SAY: The new meta shows that going for 9% hit on bosses (for entry-MC guilds and longer fights 1 minute or more) yields more total damage potential due to the procs than you could theoretically get by going heavy into hit% for better white damage .... overall. Because the shadowcraft proc adds a value rating of roughly 100 AP (which he mathed out in a separate video)
You're welcome
yo sorry what is the firt quest of thet neck ? i didnt find anything about it at all / thx
Still need to reach 60
You are doing damn good work, very helpfull to not waste time in some instances. Keep up the good work! 👍👍
the real question is, what is more dps after the hit 6% soft cap: 1% hit, 1% crit, or 20 AP
after cap, 1% hit will only benefit your white auto attacks, whereas 1% crit will help all abilities/auto.
the AP necessary to boost your dps by ~1% crit is generally considered 20-24 depending on your gear (the better your gear, the more AP a crit/hit will be worth)
@Zatar how do you think is it okey to swap one ring to Painweaver Band and be Trash blade? cant get MH sword?=(
Debuffs have priority and DoTs like the Shanker will not push off anything higher priority than other similar DoTs. They won't replace debuffs like Sunder Armor or Curse of Shadows
Do you have the source of that info?
How much t1 is needed to be better then shadowcraft? Haven’t really heard an answer to this... like how much more raw stats would be needed to overcome the set bonus it provides
5 piece t1
Metagoblin ain't got shit in you. Bob's your uncle.
so with 305 skill you will have a base of 8% hit right? so you noly need 1% from gear to reach 9% and not miss with abilities. 5 weap skill = 3 hit plus 5 from precision. is this correct? or do i need 6hit from gear + 5 from precision and 1% from 5 weapon skill still?
you need 1% from gear
Not sure about the statment that first buff is removed. As far as I read there is different prios on debuffs. Have u confirmed that the first is removed?
Have you considered a SF Daggers build with shadowcraft + muggers + distracting?
You don't really have to run dm tribute for the rings , just find a hunter that soloes the tribute and offer him gold for the ring. If it drops he invites you in. I got mine for 40 gold:D
Got mine for 10g.
Is this the same for sword rogues to? Im new to wow classic, just got to lvl 50 an want to make sure I know what to look for
the set he is showing here is using swords
the DalRend sword set to be exact
@@everythingtaken3674 thanks man I appreciate the response an help
When 60% of ur damage is auto attacking in Sword, it's crap to go soft cap hit. Maybe only on dagger seal it Can works but even in combat dagger 55% of the damage in raid is by auto attacking.
Absolutely. I have both the shadowcraft set and the pre-bis gear, wearing the full pre-bis item set is clearly better in damage (14% hit, or 17% if I switch trinkets). If you just go with 6% hit, you're really loosing damage (I'm talking about combat spec here).
@@crazyRyoga That's just not true. 6/8 shadowcraft is way better than the uh... "preraid bis" set.
@@justindavis2024 "is way better" Nope, it's not. The discussion here was on boss fights. If you're combat (best pve spec atm) white damage is always the biggest source of damage, and Hit Chance increases white damage. I use shadowcraft 6/8 + Devilsaur 2/2 all the time, but for solo content and farm, simply because it offers more defense, dodge and less downtimes, but on bosses and longer fights the +hit simply wins.
@@crazyRyoga I'm sorry you're bad, but don't go around spreading misinformation that truestrike/mask/etc is better than Shadowcraft, lest you might lead some poor noob astray.
@@justindavis2024 Hahah, nice argument, "you bad, me good"
Grow up, no need to get triggered that much by different opinions, or like in this case, simple true facts.
To everyone else, +hit rating is better than a random energy gain, it increases the white dmg, which is, if you are combat specced, the biggest source of dmg you do to a boss (not the yellow attacks like the guy up here thinks), don't stop at 6%. And with this, I'm done ;)
Hey man enjoying the content, one thought. I understand shadowcraft could/is potentially stronger than the normal pre raid bis but would it not be worse because as soon as you replace a piece you either need to swap out one of the other two pieces you didn’t currently have equipped probably breaking your devilsaur set or lose the 6set bonus...
How did I have to look this far down in the comments to find this comment. This is exactly why it's not really time efficient.
Sploops Mcgee yeah, I mean it’s fine if you get it and still get your pre raid bis but if you plan on raiding and don’t have items to swap in, I feel it’s just a dps loss
Why only stop at that low hit? Rogues most dmg as combat swords come from your white hits with slice and dice up. So the more hit the better. Guarantee I’m doing more DPS with 15% hit and 32% hit raid buffed than that. Sure 6% you don’t miss sinister strikes and Evis. But that’s not where your damage comes from. White hits are. More hit the better.
I never meant to imply that you stop at 6% hit, in fact the gear I am recommending will get you to 9%. I merely wanted to point out that Shadowcraft is better because you do not require 8% hit.
This is because it would be difficult to have 8% hit while using Shadowcraft unless you had every hit item. It would also make incorporating raid drops more difficult because you are always on the edge of losing soft hit-cap.
Dire Maul also helps, because now you can get 2% hit from rings, putting less stress on the 2 non-Shadowcraft items to have hit.
All of these factors make Shadowcraft better than most (including me) anticipated it to be at launch.
White hits are most easily boosted by AP more than anything, which you lose from stacking all that hit.
As soon as classic launched and I looked at this set bonus I knew that it was going to be way better than the private server BiS list. No way do you need that much hit %. Sadly though, I have only gotten my hands on 4 pieces so far.
Would you still equip double elven ring over a quick strike ring?
Is the precisely gun a lot better than satyr’s bow? I have both and not sure which to use
They are close, but the gun is better.
In stat weights (not actual AP):
Bow:
3 Agi = 6ap
1% hit = 15-18AP
Total = 21-24ap
Gun:
14 agi = 28ap
It's only a 4 pt difference. No need to break the bank.
@@Rave.- uuhm Agility only increases AP by 1 point tho !
why your website doesn't work for me :(
What is better for a combat rogue Ghostshroud or Mask of the Unforgiven?
The mask is better for pve for sure.
I understand where you're coming from with the shadow craft but the problem is it's only going to take one raid and 1 piece of night slayer for it to completely ruin the rest of your gear.
This also runs true if you get blood fang from ony or rag
Because the 4 set is so strong, I am not worried about it. Unless you get lucky with raid drops, you will use shadow craft for a while.
@@Zatar So is it better to wear Shadowcraft Tunic with the 4pc bonus over the Cadaverous Armor+Devilsaur leggings ?
The chance to miss a hit on a lvl 63 mob is 9% ok but what are the chances on a dead skull lvl mob like the bosses in MC ? Is it still 9% or more ? Because i reached the 10% hit cap and i still Miss some hits i don’t understand can someone explain ?
Skull mobs are treated as level 63. You will not miss with abilities however, 63 mobs have a 6.5% dodge chance that you cannot do anything about.
If you are dual wielding, your white swings will miss until you get 24% hit.
Classic Wow Builds as a rogue with 305 sword skill and +5% hit how many % hit i need from gear ? To be on the maximum ?
Is it worth stacking hit over crit after the soft cap? Hitting with white attacks in raids is important too right?
I don't think it is since you'd need around 20-30% I believe for 100% hit on white attacks. Just get 6% from gear and 5% from talents and then prio agi/crit.
Another great vid man!!
When do you ideally break this set? 5 Nightslayer pieces before breaking this combo?
It depends on which pieces of nightslayer you get, and on what pieces of other pre-raid gear you have ready to equip when you drop Shadowcraft.
Usually 4-6 raid pieces.
spectors blade is not impossible to get on horde, the same boss is required to be killed for a shaman quest.
Im confused. In pve scenario, you need way more than 6% hit right? The 6% is just for abilities, and most combat rogue damage is from auto attacks. Is my understanding incorrect? Because I have like 15% hit on my rogue 😅
Need is the key word. You only "need" 6% hit (otherwise you would lose a very significant amount of dps), but after that you get hit when it is on good items. For example, I raid with 9% hit.
Only few people know that the soft hit cap is 6% due to precission tree
Ahh okay. So th 6% soft cap are with 5 points in precisson?
Uhh no, it's 6% because of the weapon expertise talents. The precision tree makes it only 1% hit needed from gear.
Even better =)
Who confirmed 6% hit ? Is this before or after the talent 5%hit ?
6% with no talents
So how do you reach 6% with pre-raid? i count 2% for 2x rings and 2% for devilsaur set =4 ?
Precision Talent. 1% Hit per Talent Point, up to a Maximum of 5.
Rogues got 5% hit from talents, so it's actually 9 with the talents reaching the 9% required for raid bosses and well above the 6% for players
5 wep skill from talents which takes the required hit cap down from 9% to 6% (having 305 eliminates a factor that's in the game making you only need 8% and not 9%, the factor is that your first hit% is ignored or something at 300) then 5% from talents, making you only need 1% from gear to get yellow hit cap (yellow being abilities)
T0 6er is very nice but to random. In mc it comes on one boss for 6-7times 600dps owned all BiS Hit hunter rogues. But still have from gear 6%hit with 6 t0 on its enough..
So ive been following your guide and i noticed wearing full shadowcraft setup only gives you 4% hit
There is a talent called precision which gives 5% hit
2% rings, 2% devilsaur set, 1% bow or crossbow + 5% talent. It is more then enough. Also u can use 2% hit trinket in some way..
@@vzdor5758 yeah i forgot u get a base 8% from precision and weapon expertise, I use mask of the unforgiven and cadaverous chest instead of the 6 pc shadowcraft and I use ancient bone bow for +11 agi over satyr's bow
so ive been running with 14% hit rating, around 28% crit and 690 AP. (all unbuffed) most of my damage in raids comes from auto attacks. i have been #1 dps (overall) in every raid ive attended since completing my pre-bis.i dont quite get why people think that going 6% hit in raids is better than going with a higher hit chance since most of your damage come from auto attacks.. if those attacks are missing surely thats way less damage that having your special attacks hit a little harder.. i mean were talking entire hits that could be crits not hitting at all? i have completed my shadowcraft set so ill give it a shot next raid.
6% is just the minimum of hit required. You will be using 9-11% hit once you are full pre-bis in addition to the shadowcraft set.
so is 9% a big waste i should just stick with 6% with 305 wep skill?
Absolutely not, 1% hit is still worth roughly 15-20 attack power even after soft hit cap. However, soft hit cap is required or you lose to much damage. Basically hit past 6% is still good, just not absolutely essential.
@@Zatar cuzz ive been runing this set up 6p shadowcraft ive been crushing all rogues with normal preraid bs gear
@@Zatar I would argue on boss fights, since so much of your DPS is from White Auto Attack Damage (WAAD), that going past the soft cap of 8% and 305 Weap Skill is not a "luxury" it is a necessity!
Dual wielders have a 19% chance to miss (with weapon talent), so going past 8% soft hit cap will ensure higher WAAD, and definitely higher DPS.
In a theory craft simulation, I would bet on a rogue with 11-12% hit to do more DPS on a boss fight than an 8% hit rogue who has higher agi or AP.
@@AJ-iu6nw so think its worth going for 11 to 12% hit?
Does the weapon expertise talent on the combat spec give you 3% hit or is that crit?
Dash Precision gives 5% hit. Weapon Skill of 5 or higher eliminates the 3% penalty.
But if you raid, you'll get T1/T2 upgrades eventually and have to break your Shadowcraft sooner of later.
That is true, but you will likely be able to maintain 4 pc shadowcraft for a while and that is still really good.
@@Zatar Do you think T0 is better than T1 overall?
@@HeK. No, full t1 is better than t0, not only in terms of damage, but also because of the extra stamina and fire resistance.
ya this is the point i think a lot of people miss. getting 6 piece shadowcraft would be great but more than likely you will get a piece or 2 of tier which will make breaking the set bonus worth it.
hey, you are the second guy that i hear talking about the change from 8% softcap to 6% (not human). where can i find the official confirmation ?
I was in the same boat, I just ended up trying it myself in-game to confirm it. I raided with 6% hit and never missed with an ability.
Here is a source that collected data during the beta that others have linked me to: github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table#weapon-skill
@@Zatar 6% hit cap for non human rouges or do you need to be higher?
Depends if you take the weapon expertise talent. If you do, you will have at least 305 skill, which is what gives you the "extra" 3% hit.
So this isnt for a sub rogue? Only combat?
I'm thinking of making a pvp gear video with phase 2 coming up soon, but this is for pve.
@@Zatar do it please
How is Elven ring better than Painweaver Band?
Agi
I figured more people would understand stat weights, as they're likely coming from retail or pserver where it's common. This comment section has been.... interesting.
As someone who hasn't read the comments yet (yours was first) and has no idea what you are talking about care to elaborate?
Edit No? Good talk.
i dont get it... why so much hit rating when we have precision? wouldnt 1% be enough
Hit rating increases your chance to hit with white attack past 6% as well. Your white attacks are a large amount of your damage, so hit rating continues to be good after 6%.
@@Zatar wouldnt for example 1% crit chance be considered better than 1% hit chance at that point?
Yeah crit is better than hit past 6%, however, not by too much.
Once you start getting really geared, hit becomes important because you can reach a point where you miss so much that you lose Critical Strike chance.
Human sword rogue with Expertise and 5 to weapon skill from talents. 310 total weapon skill. 1% hit is all i need soft cap correct for 63 boss
Correct
@@Zatar Do I still need 5% hit for hemo pvp as human rogue with sword?
Yes, weapon skill is practically useless in PvP
Zatar Thank you for the answer
attack power increases your attack and hit increases your chance to hit. they are completely unrelated... or am I wrong ? I cant seem to find research otherwise. please answer
Basicallh having 20 attack power is ON AVERAGE the same boost to your character as 1% hit is... on average
@@Velaar that makes absolutely 0 sense. attack power increases your attack. and hit increases your chance to hit. there is no 20 attack = 1 % hit. thats not comparable measurements.
@@pokesauceemajin6622 Dude, it all comes down to the fact that attack power as well as hit chance give you damage. And 1% hit gives you approx as much damage as 15-20 attack power. With 1% hit you hit more often but with 15-20 you hit harder and it equals the same dmg boost.
@@pokesauceemajin6622 think about it a little deeper. Then take a statistics class. Report back to us later! *salutes
@@AJ-iu6nw just trying to understand the data mechanics of wow. good shit bro, always try and make fun of others when they are trying to learn. I hope you make something out of your life instead of making fun of others on youtube comments. Salute*
Arent u still stacking too much hit?
U need 6 total because of weapon expertise. U get 5 from talents and 1 from the DM tribute ring.
Wouldnt you then be better off exchanging the bow for a bow with agi on and the other ring for e.g. Painweaver.
My question is: why are u still stacking hit beyond 6?
6 % hit prevents you from missing with abilities, but you can still miss with auto attacks until 25% hit
@@Zatar ok, thx for answer. But youre still so far away from the white hit cap. What do u think? Isnt hit over 6 so low in value that it is better to go for crit or other things?
6% is really only enough for ur yellow hits.
U still need tons more for reducing ur chance to miss on white hits. U miss ur white hits, u lose dps. Bad dps.
Exactly, if ur hit chance is 6% u will lose alot of damage due to a lot of missing auto attacks. If u get that 9% hit rate u will barely miss any auto attacks increasing ur dmg like crazy.
Hit is still valuable. It's stat weight is btwn 15-20AP. We're just saying that there are more valuable pieces of gear after yellow hit cap, stat for stat.
Which is what he said? Mentioned the confirmed percentage such that abilities don't miss.
Game changer in PVE we got options
change playback speed to 1.25 or 1.5. thank me later.
No
@@Einomar no to you watching phase 1.5 vids today.
6% for humans not if you are horde. Not everyone plays human. I outdps shadowcraft users in mc
6% for every race you dimwit. Also I guarantee I out DPS you with my shadowcraft set. I'd say by a significant margin.
@@justindavis2024 yea and humanoids don't get extra sword skill, and each point of sword skill increases your hit % moron
I don't understand this "1% crit from items is enough" trend since around 2nd place in damage will be your AUTO ATTACKS that rely on your hit stat, Yes maybe 6 pieces of shadowcraft is best when you are playing in speedrun guild that downs boss in 30 seconds but in reality you need to stick with standart dps items.
wait wait, ur saying that the reason why shadow craft is better why? I disagree. I have to say cadver set is better for overall performance based on DPS. and btw attack power has nothing to do with hit. I really lost u there. hit is capped at 8.6%-9% not where did 6% come from... just really confused about this information
1% hit increases your damage output approximately equal to 15-20 attack power for rogues. It is just a means of comparing items with different effects like you mention.
The Cadaverous set has really only 1 amazing piece, which is the chest. The rest are comparable or similar to Shadowcraft, and the set bonuses of Shadowcraft are better.
@@Zatar you cant measure hit % and calculate it with attack power, they're incomparable data that are not related. thats like saying 1% mana regeneration is related to spell power. its not.
PokeSaucee Majin it’s just how ppl theorycraft ... they give each stat a static value that has been determined by testing .. he is saying that adding 1 percent hit to your gear will give the same dps as adding an additional 15 attack power .. it’s how ppl decide which piece of gear is better
@@pokesauceemajin6622 There's a range that it's worth in stat weight, just like crit. 15-20AP is that range after soft cap for hit.
This is nothing new. This is how stat weights have been measured for over a decade. This is how you min/max.
@@kzarate88 thank you for explanation appreciate it alot, just was not understanding the link between the two.
Wtf more hit more dmg. The shoulders from UBRS first boss 2% hit. Easy better than t0 shoulders same with the head from stratholme 2%hit and crit. I asked so many rogues today and no one can say that this setup is better same with the breast scholo one is better
So you dont understand how min/max and theorycrafting works, gotcha
@@vonhoff208 no i dont cause every guy who i talked about hit cap tell me different stuff. I play now with 6t0 and still have from gear 6% hit. I love it when the energie proccs on a boss like 4 times