As a sword rogue you want to open up with 2 sinister strikes and then a S&D. this will allow you time to build 5 combo points before S&D falls off. if you have Ruthlessness and Relentless Strikes talents you can gamble those points into an eviscerate and be able to immediately do a 1 combo point S&D. if you don't want to gamble it (60% chance to get an instant combo point) then you will do a S&D after you build 5 points. In a raid you NEVER want to stealth and there are 2 reasons for that. First of all it takes longer to get behind a target. If it takes you 6 seconds to get behind a target, and you are doing 400 dps, you are losing out on 2400 damage. Second, with Lethality and Improved Backstab talents, it's actually better to use backstab instead of ambush for the increased crit damage and +30% crit chance. So the ideal way to open up is immediately run behind a target and start two backstabs followed by a S&D, while watching threat and feinting if need be. Keep up S&D 24/7, make sure you have vanish on a hotkey so you don't die, and don't use any dots.
Juju Power and Elixir of Giants don’t stack... You will only receive the strength bonus from the biggest one.. Same with Winter Firewater and Juju Might, both AP buffs, and you only get the benefit from one of them..
Which is the best to go for? There is a 5 difference in both but are the Jujus significantly harder to acquire? Edit: Stopped being a lazy piece of shit and done my own research, to me personally it seems better to get the lesser buffs because they are more easily obtainable and last significantly longer, if you want the +40 AP buff you need to kill elite giants(will need a healer) which then only have a 20% chance of dropping the item you need to get the buff (& I think you need multiple)
@@Cuppat1307 I usually just farm the Strength JuJus, which also gets me Firewaters. I don't really care about the 5AP difference. There is no reason to use Elixir of Giant's though.
Just a quick note: Dagger rogues should usually not put 2 points into Weapon Expertise. One point is 3 dagger skill. Most rogues (should) have something like aged core gloves or distracting dagger. This puts you at 308 or 309 weapon skill with 1 point into Weapon Expertise, which effectively caps you.
Cant stack Ground Scorpok Assay with ROIDS because of the shared 1 hour cooldown, also Elixir of Giants doesnt stack with Juju Power same with Winterfell Firewater it doesnt stack with Juju Might one will replace the other.
Yeah the log out method is the only way to stack the blasted buffs, but that is a huge waste of time IMO. 100% right about the strength buffs though, juju power and giants don’t stack..
Altough combat daggers is ''better'' on shorter fights, you dont need deathdealer for Seal Fate. You need flat 30% or more crit with full buffs, preferable that u have 30% unbuffed just incase you die.This can occur when you are BiS in MC/BWL gear. By the time you get deathdealer, ranked BS and Evisc and Deaths Sting from cthun, seal fate starts pumping insane numbers for #1 spec overall thru vanilla.
Good for new people, esle pretty basic. U missed: On horde do not put anything on mainhand because you get windfury. If you play swords or on horde, sinister strike right after your autoattack so you get more benefit if you refresh it with wf or sword spec. If you have crusader wait for a crusader prog to use your cooldowns.
PSA: ONLY POISON YOUR OFFHAND AS HORDE WHEN WITH A SHAMAN. Windfury cannot be put on MH if you have a poison on it, Poisons cannot be removed so if you accidentally poison your weapon you have to wait 30 mins or use all charges
This video has one important piece of information and that is to organically get 5 combo point snd before using your cds. Here’s how, you begin with 2 ss snd and then go into 5 ss snd and then use your ar 3/4 before a tick to get an additional tick in the duration. Once that’s done you can freely get 5 ss evis off twice before needing to tea and build into another 5 ss snd. While this video loosly explains this, do note that rogues do not use vanish ever, as it is a major dps loss and costs tons of energy. You can choose to vanish if you’re heading into high threat or just continue damaging, as tanks that are as geared as you can easily out threat you. There’s so very few examples where this isn’t true, such as vael or specific high mit fights where tanks don’t gen as much threat. Basically just go all out and if you climb, vanish, otherwise use vanish tactically to ignore a fear or a web spray.
Allways sinister after mainhand sving, because sword special resets auto attack timer. Also pop trinkets with cd's then Vanish switch trinkets to fx HoJ and drakefang talisman for Better stats after pop trinkets (top DPS rogue from nostalrius) ;)
While leveling as a Combat Swords i would get Riposte. Esentially you gonna lose ou on Endurance (1.5min cd on sprint and evasion) and Imp Sprint (Remove movement imparing effects on use) and 1 point of Lightning reflexes (1% dodge chance), but the most important one would be losing 1 talent point overall in term of progress. Riposte is really useful, when you're leveling. Why? Surprisingly it can happen very often, like once every two-three mob encounter encounter, but it shines against multiple mobs and elite/rare mobs. You gonna have a higher parry chance (5%). which isn't a lot, but some extra small amount of survivability. In case you parry, then you can use Riposte, which cost 10 energy, it has 6s cooldown, hits almost as hard as sinister strike, but doesn't award you a combo point. Overall it's low cost moderate damage skill with disarm aka utility. There's even a macro for it to use, when you parry, which will prioritze Riposte over Sinister Strike. Keep in mind it's really op in PvP as well. It might give you the upper hand against warrior, paladins, hunters (cuz of pets), warlocks (cuz of Succubus; Void Walker; Felhunter, although remove weapon from the lock not gonna help you that much, but it's an extra damage). 90% of the time people not gonna level up Unarmed expertise, which means, they not gonna be able to hit you with their bare hand, while the disarm is active. It can be helpful as well in dungeon enviroment, when somehow a mob targets you or the tank dies. I would NOT bring this to end game raid enviroment though, cuz if that happens, and you'll be able to disarm a trash mob, then the group lose out on one debuff slot and 1 point loss on Lethality, which 6% crit hit damage on sinister strike and eviscate it not worth it. Overall: High value, while leveling and farming Mid-High value in PvP (Do not use it, before t2, cuz Cold Blood+Eviserate combo is wonderful) Low value in dungeons No value in raids
Also if your a Human Rogue..then you only need 1 point in weapon expertise to max out glancing dmg...the other point can go into evis for 5% more dmg if you really want to min/max. Or have imp.sprint maxed with 1 point into reducing the cooldown of sprint and evasion. That way you cant be locked down.
Great video overall, some key points I think you missed(u might've talked about them, in that case I missed them :D) Always Sinister Strike AFTER mainhand swing, HoJ and Sword Spec resets swingtimer, and they can proc on Sinister. Can also be done as Dagger with backstab, but not as important because of only 2% from HoJ. Never start a fight with ambush as dagger, unless u got like AQ/Naxx gear and are well above 50% crit, Backstab will have a better secured crit. 1CP SnD is way better energy/SnD/s so always start off a fight with Backstab/SS -> Feint -> SnD, if you're afraid of Threat (which you shouldn't be) only SS/BS when you're at 80 or even at 100, before your next energy tick comes. Adrenaline Rush should always be popped when Crusader is up, and just before you get an energy tick, this way you can get 1 more 40 tick instead. Elemental Sharpening Stones are a great way to bump up your crit as dagger, since it's mandatory to be above 50% with dagger. 30% Backstab crit doesn't apply flat 30% crit, it takes your current crit and grants you a 30% of that.
Never Ambush in raids, BS has 30% more chance to crit and also if u stealth to come to the boss, u can lose easily 2-3 auto attacks which convert into even more dmg loss, cause if u just walk up to the boss without stealth as soon as the fight starts, u do more dmg that way.
@@MilkBoy270 You don't actually "lose" damage this way, but as I said, it's a way to manage threat. If you're tank is doing his job you don't really have to pool energy at all
3:40 for dagger why wouldn't you get 3 in imp gouge and 2 into lightning reflexes. since you main attack is back stab and slice and dice is for basic attacks. why/when would i sinister strike?
good video. only question is on weapon speed as swords rogue . should I have a slow MH (2.80 speed) and faster sword or can I equip a dagger on OH? I assume talent sword specialization procs OH as well as the MH so I should run 2x swords to maximize this talent? thanks!
At least mention the importance of swing timer if you are doing a guide on how to top DPS as a Rogue. It is literally the only thing that really makes the difference between the average button smasher and a good Rogue when it comes down to things you can actively do to improve the DPS
@@Zereleth Things like sword specialization, HoJ or Windfury reset your swing timer when they proc. Basically, you want to always use your abilities right after a MH swing in order to not lose too much of your swing time if one of the above mentioned procs. If you were just to smash your Sinisiter Strike and your swing timer is at the very end right before a hit, you would risk to lose an entire swing on a proc
@@wormgun9586 So you look at every single swing and also you gotta watch out for sword procs manually, so you don't fuck up the rotation... I mean, sure you can do it without addon, but why the hell would you go through that trouble when a simple Addon makes it so much easier. That is like saying you can raid without dbm, threatmeter and such, which is somewhat true but you'd be gimping yourself
Great video, but I'm a bit disappointed that you actually skipped Seal Fate daggers, which is the most difficult to master in terms of rotation (lots of trade-offs between SnD and Eviscerate). SF is perfectly viable right now and it is TOP dps in those fights were you have to stop dps for a few secs (Magmadar, Ragnaros) or have many transitions (Lucifron). Part of it is that you do not depend so much on your SnD autoattack damage and a more signifficant portion of your damage is Eviscerate, so you do not waste SnD time when pulling back from bosses. AND it is the only PvE build that is also capable of doing something in PvP. For horde, you don't use poison in your MH as you'll probably have WF shaman with you ;)
Do you have a link to the spec you are referring to? I'm learning the class still and the seal fate sounds interesting. I like having something viable for both PvE/PvP. Thanks!
Having Shadow craft and having 26% crit rate un-buff the Combat Rogues can’t touch me. However I wonder the combat rogues abuse the power of Shadow craft if they would out damage me? 🤔
@@Danny-wc2mi Something like this: classicdb.ch/?talent#fhefoxdVZGcV0bzZV Or a little bit more pvp version dropping 1 pt in dual wield and using vigor and picking remorseless attacks: classicdb.ch/?talent#fGefoxzVoGcV0bZV
@@Brettsauces I currently raid in SF! My raid has 2 SF dagger rogues and 3 combat swords rogues and SF rogues top the meters in magmadar, lucifron or majordomo by far.
I just unlocked Cheap Shot and I've been opening every fight with it ever since 🤣 Cheap Shot, AutoAttack, Sinister Strike, Gouge, wait for energy, Sinister Strike again and you have a full combo meter almost before they can even start attacking you
@@silverback5814 yea u use a dagger for vael, 30% more crit with backstab which also does higher damage than sinister strike, and u have infinite energy. Even sword rogues will do significantly more dps using backstab with a dagger on Vael. I have Vis'kag and am combat sword spec and my DPS goes up by like 600 using a gutgore ripper and backstab instead
When you start out a boss fight and your just doing white damage you should spam feint. That way when you start normal dps and use your cooldowns you should be near the bottom of the threat meter.
RobG811 actually no. You can always pool energy as you use ss or bs slowly before you waste an energy tick past 100 and you can vanish to completely wipe threat.
While leveling prior to level 42 is it better to use your points for SnD or should they go to eviscerate? I've seen videos go both ways. To me or send better to go with SnD for leveling and killing mobs. Dungeons bosses obviously would warrant SnD to eviscerate.
I play a fury war and in Mc I often have to hold back on bosses so I don't pull aggro. Whereas a few rogues will beat me in DPs because they can just go all out the entire time.
Watch Zatar's video instead, he has gameplay examples and actually has a clue about how to play rogue. This video is just like a bag of chips : 80% air
1) You're gonna go ahead and type "/details hide" because who needs that silly threat meter? 2) POP EVERYTHING. DO NOT WAIT FOR SUNDERS OR YOU WILL LOSE THE WHOLE GAME. 3) Be sure to stun mobs in the middle of a patrol's path while the tank is still trying to LOS. You're welcome.
the power of feint comes from the fact, that feint itself isn't a damaging gcd. The amount of threat reduced by feint itself is a joke (around -480 aggro at current rank).
you need to be building feint into your rotation along with vanish. You can feint once every 10 seconds to reduce % of your threat. When I crit out of ambush in MC I HAVE to feint before I applied SnD, now that I have the 5 set bonus for Nightslayer I can ambush (crit or not) > SnD > feint. This is especially important on Rag and Ony, if you pull threat on Rag, you may get instantly killed depending on how much Fire Resistance you have, if you pull threat on Ony and get a bunch of people tail whipped out of no where... well enjoy that conversation. Vanish is much better to use than feint, but feint can be used in a rotation if you climb the threat meter constantly.
@@FromSardiusToJasper feint does not reduce an %-amount of threat, it reduces an absolute value of threat. On current max rank feint reduces the threat by around 480, which equals 600 damage. If you are fully buffed, feint has no use, cause even a white crit makes more.
It's basically the same, although the current best spec seems to be 30/21/0 for SF daggers (it doesn't do as well as combat though). You also just try to keep SnD up at all times and weave in some 4/5CP Evis in between. The trick is to keep track of your CPs and use your finishers at 4 CPs (or 5 if it works out) so you don't potentially waste a CP procc
A correction, a lot of the buffs you listed at the end don’t stack. The buffs will show up, but Scorpok and mongoose on top of each other will only grant you 25 agility, not 50
@@mattiparviainen k, im still no fan of doing that, u dont even have core skillpoints for ambush as a combat rogue. and how much 1 ambush effects ur dps in an entire bossfight? sounds like tryhard 9 000 for me i mixed up ambush with eviscerate since i play german client not used to english ability names, my mistake, sorry for that one :P
Your video is pretty good (for the editing part) but your are missing so much essentials tips that push rogue skill to his limit, this video even show the basics, its still miss the principal difference between a dagger and a sword, like - how works the attack bonus from sword spec / hand of justice etc.
I have a general question to all rogues: i play combat rogue with swords. I got the brutality blade and now i got the dagger from rag. What should i do now? What is the best option to go with to do best dps? Playing with same specc but with dagger in hand or keep 2 swords and wait for 2nd dagger? Or even respecc to dagger now? Pls help
An amazing tip from a top rouge here, pop restorative potions/free action, depending on the boss, a few second before you pop cooldowns to prevent any loss of damage.
Yo, good video, but you could let ppl know that those potions elixirs and other stuff dont stack, other can be very confused, or make any video next time what stuff is stacking what not :) keep making videos, they are awesome
Was hoping to see a Subtlety build. Im only lvl 52 but consistently will be top dps on a single target. Points in "Setup" to add points when dodged, "Hemorrhage", "Premeditation" helps but I mostly forget to use it. I open with Cheap Shot (for the instant 3 to 4 combo points) then Hemorrhage, then Eviscerate. Most of the time the target will be dead. If the target is long lived, I will use "Rupture" instead of "Eviscerate" on the 1st full combo point set, "Vanish" to set up "Cheap Shot" for the 3 to 4 combo points, refresh "Hemorrhage" and "Eviscerate"...Still alive? "Preparation" "Vanish","Cheap Shot" etc... I know I have some useless points placed and came here to get the low down. Still great things to learn from, thanks man!
This only apply to raid i think. Stuff simply don't live that long. Usually i get 2 sinister then lightning then 3 or 4 for an eviscerate and mob is dead.
You are wrong about rogue consistency, its not SnD, it IS the MH weapon, majority of those top logs are same MH, my example is running sub in a raid. Its not the most efficient but it is very competitive dps done but you run SnD itll lower your dps Melee is about the same % of dmg done accross all 3 specs , either combat and sub spec
Why do you have 3 points in improved backstab for your Sword spec? Any other points up there is better than 3 in an ability you will NEVER use in a raid.
TL,DR guide : do whatever you want to do cause no one is checking dmg done or dps these days and you don't want to spend like 50g every raid for consumables which wont matter at all. Even you dying before the fight wont change the result :D As a rogue, just go into raid, dance half the fight, then roll 100 on everything, gg. Then get group of 2 another rogues and just go and instantly kill everyone you see with all 3 of you ambushing them.
I love manning my Ret Paladin! Giraffesmad on Anathema! But I love watching these videos so I know to the max what my enemies are using and how to counter them. “The more you know!”
A lot of good content in this video, although min-maxers actually continue the 1 point slice and dice usage throughout most fights. 1 point SND is the most efficient cost/time and if you have thistle tea worked correctly in your rotation, this method is better than the 1 snd - 5snd - 4-5evis - 5 snd -5 evis described in the video. Additionally, Juju Flurry is highly underrated and should be considered. Pro-tip for no-life rogues wanting MORE dps - if you have exhausted everything else, "bogling root" will be your friend. This thing doesn't look like much, but when you have every other consumable going, you can eek out just a bit more and go even further beyond! The consumables section is kinda bad, though. Sorry, but many things there don't stack. juju power doesn't stack with firewater, assay and mongoose look like they stack but don't, etc. Also missing some key consumables in their place, like flurry, giant growth, and bogling root (okay, 2 aren't "key" but will help a little).
You are saying how to keep top dps as rogue, but why are you not actually showing it in molten core / ony runs? Show in the video how u are actually top dpsing the charts thats the only you to prove it actually works... showing a rogue fighting a dummy is not really proving your point sorry
Because that would take too much time. To fuel the demands of a self-imposed daily upload schedule, Punkrat has to churn out redundant, easy content. In cases such as this one, he possibly skimmed a couple Rogue guides and used them as a basis to create this video - which happens to be less informative than the guides the video's actually based upon.
I'm always top dps as a rogue for guild runs. Easy. Why tell backstab spec rogues to use ambush as opener when they are not even spec'd into Ambush? It's better to use BS as a opener..
As a sword rogue you want to open up with 2 sinister strikes and then a S&D. this will allow you time to build 5 combo points before S&D falls off. if you have Ruthlessness and Relentless Strikes talents you can gamble those points into an eviscerate and be able to immediately do a 1 combo point S&D. if you don't want to gamble it (60% chance to get an instant combo point) then you will do a S&D after you build 5 points. In a raid you NEVER want to stealth and there are 2 reasons for that. First of all it takes longer to get behind a target. If it takes you 6 seconds to get behind a target, and you are doing 400 dps, you are losing out on 2400 damage. Second, with Lethality and Improved Backstab talents, it's actually better to use backstab instead of ambush for the increased crit damage and +30% crit chance. So the ideal way to open up is immediately run behind a target and start two backstabs followed by a S&D, while watching threat and feinting if need be. Keep up S&D 24/7, make sure you have vanish on a hotkey so you don't die, and don't use any dots.
Finally someone who knows this... It's surprising how many rogues don't even know these things.
how can i Backstab with a Sword ? am i missing something.. you just wrote how to play a SWORD rogue then you write do the backstab ?
@@jankopandza1072 u can use a macro to swap sword and dagger off based how hes talking i image he does that
Still waiting for a, “How to Top DPS on a Ret Paladin Guide.”
The video would be short & sweet - have your entire raid unequip all of their items.
Naked Mage shits all over Ret.
Ret aura is useful for naxx.
@@quickcar5255 Ret is at its absolute strongest in Naxxramas. But...so is Fury and Fire. Ret is a waste of AQ40 gear.
I got up to level 21 as a ret pally, so glad I made the switch to rogue before I got too far with that mess of a class haha.
Juju Power and Elixir of Giants don’t stack... You will only receive the strength bonus from the biggest one.. Same with Winter Firewater and Juju Might, both AP buffs, and you only get the benefit from one of them..
Which is the best to go for? There is a 5 difference in both but are the Jujus significantly harder to acquire?
Edit: Stopped being a lazy piece of shit and done my own research, to me personally it seems better to get the lesser buffs because they are more easily obtainable and last significantly longer, if you want the +40 AP buff you need to kill elite giants(will need a healer) which then only have a 20% chance of dropping the item you need to get the buff (& I think you need multiple)
@@Cuppat1307 better =/= convenient
@@Cuppat1307 I usually just farm the Strength JuJus, which also gets me Firewaters. I don't really care about the 5AP difference. There is no reason to use Elixir of Giant's though.
does ground scorpok assay stack with mongoose and greater agi pots?
ManChild Mill that’s the one from blasted lands? If so, then yes. Just to be sure: mongoose does not stack with agi elixir
short answer: have good gear. keep SnD up all the time, spam sinister strike, use eviscerate if SnD is already up.
"You always want to go double instant poison" Except when u get windfury :)
Until that sweet poison hit stat comes on ur gear
Also not a good idea if target is immune to poisons..
@@Supreme0084 I mean youd have a point if MC was hard content/new in phases
@O K If you are a "good rogue" you dont come here for advise.
John Doe advice
Just a quick note: Dagger rogues should usually not put 2 points into Weapon Expertise. One point is 3 dagger skill. Most rogues (should) have something like aged core gloves or distracting dagger. This puts you at 308 or 309 weapon skill with 1 point into Weapon Expertise, which effectively caps you.
Cant stack Ground Scorpok Assay with ROIDS because of the shared 1 hour cooldown, also Elixir of Giants doesnt stack with Juju Power same with Winterfell Firewater it doesnt stack with Juju Might one will replace the other.
you *can* use both assay and roids if you use the logout strat, but I can't say I recommend it, given assay doesn't actually stack with mongoose.
Yeah the log out method is the only way to stack the blasted buffs, but that is a huge waste of time IMO. 100% right about the strength buffs though, juju power and giants don’t stack..
Even with a logout to get by cooldown the blasted lands buffs don't stack, the new one just replaces the old one.
Raids are usually longer than 1h. U can also use one, then pop the 2nd when first has expired. Or if u die
Mister Noodle assay stacks with mongoose.
Altough combat daggers is ''better'' on shorter fights, you dont need deathdealer for Seal Fate. You need flat 30% or more crit with full buffs, preferable that u have 30% unbuffed just incase you die.This can occur when you are BiS in MC/BWL gear. By the time you get deathdealer, ranked BS and Evisc and Deaths Sting from cthun, seal fate starts pumping insane numbers for #1 spec overall thru vanilla.
Good for new people, esle pretty basic.
U missed:
On horde do not put anything on mainhand because you get windfury.
If you play swords or on horde, sinister strike right after your autoattack so you get more benefit if you refresh it with wf or sword spec.
If you have crusader wait for a crusader prog to use your cooldowns.
PSA: ONLY POISON YOUR OFFHAND AS HORDE WHEN WITH A SHAMAN.
Windfury cannot be put on MH if you have a poison on it, Poisons cannot be removed so if you accidentally poison your weapon you have to wait 30 mins or use all charges
This video has one important piece of information and that is to organically get 5 combo point snd before using your cds.
Here’s how, you begin with 2 ss snd and then go into 5 ss snd and then use your ar 3/4 before a tick to get an additional tick in the duration.
Once that’s done you can freely get 5 ss evis off twice before needing to tea and build into another 5 ss snd.
While this video loosly explains this, do note that rogues do not use vanish ever, as it is a major dps loss and costs tons of energy. You can choose to vanish if you’re heading into high threat or just continue damaging, as tanks that are as geared as you can easily out threat you.
There’s so very few examples where this isn’t true, such as vael or specific high mit fights where tanks don’t gen as much threat.
Basically just go all out and if you climb, vanish, otherwise use vanish tactically to ignore a fear or a web spray.
Allways sinister after mainhand sving, because sword special resets auto attack timer.
Also pop trinkets with cd's then Vanish switch trinkets to fx HoJ and drakefang talisman for Better stats after pop trinkets (top DPS rogue from nostalrius) ;)
Yo, Which trinkets you're referring to? Just like dragonlings and barovs etc?
@@sapu13 its more for when Better trinkets are aviable
Also to top meters enginering for sapper Charges for that sweet aoe :)
@@sapu13 aq and naxx trinkets :) dont remember og there was one in zg, its Been awhile since i got 3 kids now and dont Play anymore :)
While leveling as a Combat Swords i would get Riposte. Esentially you gonna lose ou on Endurance (1.5min cd on sprint and evasion) and Imp Sprint (Remove movement imparing effects on use) and 1 point of Lightning reflexes (1% dodge chance), but the most important one would be losing 1 talent point overall in term of progress.
Riposte is really useful, when you're leveling. Why? Surprisingly it can happen very often, like once every two-three mob encounter encounter, but it shines against multiple mobs and elite/rare mobs. You gonna have a higher parry chance (5%). which isn't a lot, but some extra small amount of survivability. In case you parry, then you can use Riposte, which cost 10 energy, it has 6s cooldown, hits almost as hard as sinister strike, but doesn't award you a combo point. Overall it's low cost moderate damage skill with disarm aka utility. There's even a macro for it to use, when you parry, which will prioritze Riposte over Sinister Strike.
Keep in mind it's really op in PvP as well. It might give you the upper hand against warrior, paladins, hunters (cuz of pets), warlocks (cuz of Succubus; Void Walker; Felhunter, although remove weapon from the lock not gonna help you that much, but it's an extra damage). 90% of the time people not gonna level up Unarmed expertise, which means, they not gonna be able to hit you with their bare hand, while the disarm is active.
It can be helpful as well in dungeon enviroment, when somehow a mob targets you or the tank dies. I would NOT bring this to end game raid enviroment though, cuz if that happens, and you'll be able to disarm a trash mob, then the group lose out on one debuff slot and 1 point loss on Lethality, which 6% crit hit damage on sinister strike and eviscate it not worth it.
Overall:
High value, while leveling and farming
Mid-High value in PvP (Do not use it, before t2, cuz Cold Blood+Eviserate combo is wonderful)
Low value in dungeons
No value in raids
Also if your a Human Rogue..then you only need 1 point in weapon expertise to max out glancing dmg...the other point can go into evis for 5% more dmg if you really want to min/max. Or have imp.sprint maxed with 1 point into reducing the cooldown of sprint and evasion. That way you cant be locked down.
Great video overall, some key points I think you missed(u might've talked about them, in that case I missed them :D)
Always Sinister Strike AFTER mainhand swing, HoJ and Sword Spec resets swingtimer, and they can proc on Sinister. Can also be done as Dagger with backstab, but not as important because of only 2% from HoJ.
Never start a fight with ambush as dagger, unless u got like AQ/Naxx gear and are well above 50% crit, Backstab will have a better secured crit.
1CP SnD is way better energy/SnD/s so always start off a fight with Backstab/SS -> Feint -> SnD, if you're afraid of Threat (which you shouldn't be) only SS/BS when you're at 80 or even at 100, before your next energy tick comes.
Adrenaline Rush should always be popped when Crusader is up, and just before you get an energy tick, this way you can get 1 more 40 tick instead.
Elemental Sharpening Stones are a great way to bump up your crit as dagger, since it's mandatory to be above 50% with dagger.
30% Backstab crit doesn't apply flat 30% crit, it takes your current crit and grants you a 30% of that.
Good points thx
Robin Håkansson why should you only ss at 80 or 100 energy?
Never Ambush in raids, BS has 30% more chance to crit and also if u stealth to come to the boss, u can lose easily 2-3 auto attacks which convert into even more dmg loss, cause if u just walk up to the boss without stealth as soon as the fight starts, u do more dmg that way.
@@MilkBoy270 You don't actually "lose" damage this way, but as I said, it's a way to manage threat. If you're tank is doing his job you don't really have to pool energy at all
Robin Håkansson thanks. I'm lvling a rogue rn. Awesome awesome tips
3:40 for dagger why wouldn't you get 3 in imp gouge and 2 into lightning reflexes. since you main attack is back stab and slice and dice is for basic attacks. why/when would i sinister strike?
If you drink mongoose, you can also drink greater agility. If you use them in the other order mongoose will eat the agi pot.
good video. only question is on weapon speed as swords rogue . should I have a slow MH (2.80 speed) and faster sword or can I equip a dagger on OH? I assume talent sword specialization procs OH as well as the MH so I should run 2x swords to maximize this talent? thanks!
At least mention the importance of swing timer if you are doing a guide on how to top DPS as a Rogue. It is literally the only thing that really makes the difference between the average button smasher and a good Rogue when it comes down to things you can actively do to improve the DPS
whats the swing timer thing?
@@Zereleth Things like sword specialization, HoJ or Windfury reset your swing timer when they proc. Basically, you want to always use your abilities right after a MH swing in order to not lose too much of your swing time if one of the above mentioned procs. If you were just to smash your Sinisiter Strike and your swing timer is at the very end right before a hit, you would risk to lose an entire swing on a proc
@@chocrikir655 you dont need a swing timer for that (unless you're bad). You can time it yourself
@@wormgun9586 So you look at every single swing and also you gotta watch out for sword procs manually, so you don't fuck up the rotation... I mean, sure you can do it without addon, but why the hell would you go through that trouble when a simple Addon makes it so much easier.
That is like saying you can raid without dbm, threatmeter and such, which is somewhat true but you'd be gimping yourself
Great video, but I'm a bit disappointed that you actually skipped Seal Fate daggers, which is the most difficult to master in terms of rotation (lots of trade-offs between SnD and Eviscerate). SF is perfectly viable right now and it is TOP dps in those fights were you have to stop dps for a few secs (Magmadar, Ragnaros) or have many transitions (Lucifron). Part of it is that you do not depend so much on your SnD autoattack damage and a more signifficant portion of your damage is Eviscerate, so you do not waste SnD time when pulling back from bosses. AND it is the only PvE build that is also capable of doing something in PvP.
For horde, you don't use poison in your MH as you'll probably have WF shaman with you ;)
Do you have a link to the spec you are referring to? I'm learning the class still and the seal fate sounds interesting. I like having something viable for both PvE/PvP. Thanks!
I actually raid seal fate daggers in that aq and on is actually top dps in raids. Kind of contradicts his statement that rogues dont scale
Having Shadow craft and having 26% crit rate un-buff the Combat Rogues can’t touch me. However I wonder the combat rogues abuse the power of Shadow craft if they would out damage me? 🤔
@@Danny-wc2mi Something like this: classicdb.ch/?talent#fhefoxdVZGcV0bzZV
Or a little bit more pvp version dropping 1 pt in dual wield and using vigor and picking remorseless attacks:
classicdb.ch/?talent#fGefoxzVoGcV0bZV
@@Brettsauces I currently raid in SF! My raid has 2 SF dagger rogues and 3 combat swords rogues and SF rogues top the meters in magmadar, lucifron or majordomo by far.
I just unlocked Cheap Shot and I've been opening every fight with it ever since 🤣 Cheap Shot, AutoAttack, Sinister Strike, Gouge, wait for energy, Sinister Strike again and you have a full combo meter almost before they can even start attacking you
3:03 is that sword spec with 3 points on improved backstab?
yes, that's the spec u run for BWL because of Vael.
@@rumham7631 cant you only backstab with daggers?
@@silverback5814 yea u use a dagger for vael, 30% more crit with backstab which also does higher damage than sinister strike, and u have infinite energy. Even sword rogues will do significantly more dps using backstab with a dagger on Vael.
I have Vis'kag and am combat sword spec and my DPS goes up by like 600 using a gutgore ripper and backstab instead
Thanks for this fam
I raided all the way to 4 horsemen in Naxx as a Rogue in vanilla and very rarely was not top DPS.
Doug Campbell
Must of not had a lot of mages, huh?
Ur bad bud.
@@liljeff4788 did you read that right?
Bet your not even close now :)
When you start out a boss fight and your just doing white damage you should spam feint. That way when you start normal dps and use your cooldowns you should be near the bottom of the threat meter.
RobG811 actually no. You can always pool energy as you use ss or bs slowly before you waste an energy tick past 100 and you can vanish to completely wipe threat.
With anniversary realms live and no debuff limit would you say rupture has a priority over eviscerate?
While leveling prior to level 42 is it better to use your points for SnD or should they go to eviscerate? I've seen videos go both ways. To me or send better to go with SnD for leveling and killing mobs. Dungeons bosses obviously would warrant SnD to eviscerate.
Combat swords build, you don't put points in imp backstab. Points go into imp eviscerate instead.
Adrian May its BWL build
@@I0Rus except bwl isn't out yet
@@I0Rus and you don't backstab with swords...
@@enjoiadrian i know
hey guys ear here
I always go full burn on ony. Get high agroe. Vanish . from there back to full burn feinting in my rotation.
pantera owns you shouldn’t have to use feint. Vanish should be enough
Why is improved backstab selected for swords?
yea wtf is that
It's for Vael-fight. Using a dagger and spamming backstab > spamming ss when you have unlimited energy
why does ur combat swords spec have backstab talents?
I play a fury war and in Mc I often have to hold back on bosses so I don't pull aggro. Whereas a few rogues will beat me in DPs because they can just go all out the entire time.
Thank you Punk
What's about the swing timer you need as a combat sword rogue?
What?
only SS right after MH swing
Watch Zatar's video instead, he has gameplay examples and actually has a clue about how to play rogue.
This video is just like a bag of chips : 80% air
1) You're gonna go ahead and type "/details hide" because who needs that silly threat meter?
2) POP EVERYTHING. DO NOT WAIT FOR SUNDERS OR YOU WILL LOSE THE WHOLE GAME.
3) Be sure to stun mobs in the middle of a patrol's path while the tank is still trying to LOS.
You're welcome.
the power of feint comes from the fact, that feint itself isn't a damaging gcd. The amount of threat reduced by feint itself is a joke (around -480 aggro at current rank).
you need to be building feint into your rotation along with vanish. You can feint once every 10 seconds to reduce % of your threat. When I crit out of ambush in MC I HAVE to feint before I applied SnD, now that I have the 5 set bonus for Nightslayer I can ambush (crit or not) > SnD > feint. This is especially important on Rag and Ony, if you pull threat on Rag, you may get instantly killed depending on how much Fire Resistance you have, if you pull threat on Ony and get a bunch of people tail whipped out of no where... well enjoy that conversation. Vanish is much better to use than feint, but feint can be used in a rotation if you climb the threat meter constantly.
@@FromSardiusToJasper feint does not reduce an %-amount of threat, it reduces an absolute value of threat. On current max rank feint reduces the threat by around 480, which equals 600 damage.
If you are fully buffed, feint has no use, cause even a white crit makes more.
@@stevevaii1094 oh yeah, you're right about that. Though I think rank 5 feint is -800 threat
@@FromSardiusToJasper -800 threat *0,8 aggro coefficient = 640
Great video, starting a rogue while the savage PvP raid die down on Firemaw...
why would you take points into imp. backstep as a combat swords rogue?
JeremyJaquane because gouge and lightning reflexes is useless, imp back stab allows you to put on a dagger for the vael fight
why did u spec 3 points into backstab on combat swords?
Why would you want 2 points in dodge instead of 2 points in imp eviscerate?
As a dagger rogue you rarely evis and dodge keeps you alive
whats the name of your rogue char? can we see your warcraft logs since your such an expert?
O K you legit stupid mate
@@ki1631 he literally stopped making vids and now makes conservative vids
Is there any footage of the seal fate evis dagger rogue? Can't find anything and i never heard of it or seen how it plays
It's basically the same, although the current best spec seems to be 30/21/0 for SF daggers (it doesn't do as well as combat though).
You also just try to keep SnD up at all times and weave in some 4/5CP Evis in between. The trick is to keep track of your CPs and use your finishers at 4 CPs (or 5 if it works out) so you don't potentially waste a CP procc
A correction, a lot of the buffs you listed at the end don’t stack. The buffs will show up, but Scorpok and mongoose on top of each other will only grant you 25 agility, not 50
What's the story with Scorpok and Mongoose not stacking? Just checked ingame and both buffs applied show a +50 agi increase in my character pane.
I use sword spec but I use weapon swap macros for backstab and ambush
Rogue alt got mine at 54 now and farming honour at the same time 😀
4:50 I'm doing ambush as combat swords.. Just macroed the dagger/sword switch for it in the skill :D
resets melee swing timers twice, 99% sure u lower ur dps :D
@@pyscho86 twice?
@@mattiparviainen
i guess u want to swap weapons twice?
dont u?
@@pyscho86
Ambush is done from stealth, so your swingtimer doesn't matter the first swap.
@@mattiparviainen
k, im still no fan of doing that, u dont even have core skillpoints for ambush as a combat rogue.
and how much 1 ambush effects ur dps in an entire bossfight?
sounds like tryhard 9 000 for me
i mixed up ambush with eviscerate
since i play german client not used to english ability names, my mistake, sorry for that one :P
Your video is pretty good (for the editing part) but your are missing so much essentials tips that push rogue skill to his limit, this video even show the basics, its still miss the principal difference between a dagger and a sword, like - how works the attack bonus from sword spec / hand of justice etc.
In the combat swords build and the combat daggers build, you put 3 points into imp backstab. Was this an error?
3:49 "It's really not that complicated in Vanilla when it comes to your attack Rotation." Word?
Spec backstab as swords?
same question
Only reason you would is after BWL comes out because a dagger on Vael is a large increase in damage
what mob were you testing your rotation on?
i pop rush and flurry when i have double crusader proc
was that a shot from smolderforge at 2:14?
Do holy priest healing my guy
I have a general question to all rogues: i play combat rogue with swords. I got the brutality blade and now i got the dagger from rag. What should i do now? What is the best option to go with to do best dps? Playing with same specc but with dagger in hand or keep 2 swords and wait for 2nd dagger? Or even respecc to dagger now? Pls help
Andreas N wait until dagger or get a scarlet kris from AH
An amazing tip from a top rouge here, pop restorative potions/free action, depending on the boss, a few second before you pop cooldowns to prevent any loss of damage.
imagine using fap potions in mc lolno
use mongoose then use agility elixir right after then they stack
Doesn't work, it only shows the icon on the buff bar, but just visually. Spent lots of gold before realizing this.
Where you at bro?
Yo, good video, but you could let ppl know that those potions elixirs and other stuff dont stack, other can be very confused, or make any video next time what stuff is stacking what not :) keep making videos, they are awesome
Was hoping to see a Subtlety build. Im only lvl 52 but consistently will be top dps on a single target. Points in "Setup" to add points when dodged, "Hemorrhage", "Premeditation" helps but I mostly forget to use it. I open with Cheap Shot (for the instant 3 to 4 combo points) then Hemorrhage, then Eviscerate. Most of the time the target will be dead. If the target is long lived, I will use "Rupture" instead of "Eviscerate" on the 1st full combo point set, "Vanish" to set up "Cheap Shot" for the 3 to 4 combo points, refresh "Hemorrhage" and "Eviscerate"...Still alive? "Preparation" "Vanish","Cheap Shot" etc... I know I have some useless points placed and came here to get the low down. Still great things to learn from, thanks man!
time for a bossfight is like 30 sec für what u wait
Using a Blasted Lands Buff starts the CD on the items for an hour, cant stack them
Just came here to say that I have hand of justice
I have a Felstriker
I have a girlfriend
@@DomSchu I have burnt from classic :)
@@DomSchu HoJ is harder to get
i have rend mh :)
This only apply to raid i think. Stuff simply don't live that long. Usually i get 2 sinister then lightning then 3 or 4 for an eviscerate and mob is dead.
how to top dps as a rogue in classic: play in a guild that has 0 warriors
what you mean ? can you xplain?
But you want battle shout
You are wrong about rogue consistency, its not SnD, it IS the MH weapon, majority of those top logs are same MH, my example is running sub in a raid. Its not the most efficient but it is very competitive dps done but you run SnD itll lower your dps
Melee is about the same % of dmg done accross all 3 specs , either combat and sub spec
Feint is highly resisted until that sweet poison hit gear drops
Why do you have 3 points in improved backstab for your Sword spec? Any other points up there is better than 3 in an ability you will NEVER use in a raid.
Its what people use in BWL for the boss with infinite energy, atleast thats the explanation that LMGD gave
@@MrDoggson I guess that makes sense for phase 3. Thank you.
does ground scorpok assay stack with mongoose and greater agi pots?
Mongoose and greater agi don't stack, scorpok does tho
Nin Pot thank you good sir!
@@ninpot2765 Incorrect. Use Mongoose first then greater agi pot.
@@TranceRevolved did they change this for classic?
@@ninpot2765 I guess so. it worked for me last week when somebody in raid said so.
TL,DR guide : do whatever you want to do cause no one is checking dmg done or dps these days and you don't want to spend like 50g every raid for consumables which wont matter at all. Even you dying before the fight wont change the result :D As a rogue, just go into raid, dance half the fight, then roll 100 on everything, gg. Then get group of 2 another rogues and just go and instantly kill everyone you see with all 3 of you ambushing them.
I love manning my Ret Paladin! Giraffesmad on Anathema! But I love watching these videos so I know to the max what my enemies are using and how to counter them. “The more you know!”
Punkrat thanks for your videos, I watch them every morning on my way to work and it’s great!
Please do a Pvp guide
Don’t forget about FADE (priest here)
Save cds for Crusader Procs.
oil of immolation?
why the do u show buffs that dont stack, why not just show the strongest of them?
Massiveballs...
...strong name
edging above the next guy lol
Would you recommend a sword or dagger build during phase 5 and 6?
The last time I was this early Jeffrey Epstein hadn't killed himself.
Still didn't
so you're implying it was suicide
ive watched this twice and i still feel like ur not saying anything COMPLETELY obvious if u play a rogue...
I was hoping for some spell power talk at least
Not even mentioning about energy pooling. Guess its a guide for noobs
Combat Fists B)
elixir of giants and juju pwoer dont stack, neither does juju might and firewater.
never mh instant poison on horde u should have windfury
Great advice tyvm.
1. If you want to have a chance to top the chart go into raid without competent warriors. :D
How to top as warlock?
Spam shadowbolt
Wait until AQ is released and then spam one button shadowbolt 😂
A lot of good content in this video, although min-maxers actually continue the 1 point slice and dice usage throughout most fights. 1 point SND is the most efficient cost/time and if you have thistle tea worked correctly in your rotation, this method is better than the 1 snd - 5snd - 4-5evis - 5 snd -5 evis described in the video. Additionally, Juju Flurry is highly underrated and should be considered.
Pro-tip for no-life rogues wanting MORE dps - if you have exhausted everything else, "bogling root" will be your friend. This thing doesn't look like much, but when you have every other consumable going, you can eek out just a bit more and go even further beyond!
The consumables section is kinda bad, though. Sorry, but many things there don't stack. juju power doesn't stack with firewater, assay and mongoose look like they stack but don't, etc. Also missing some key consumables in their place, like flurry, giant growth, and bogling root (okay, 2 aren't "key" but will help a little).
What's the story with Scorpok and Mongoose not stacking? Just checked ingame and both buffs applied show a +50 agi increase in my character pane.
Punkrat, are you not streaming anymore? I keep looking to see if you're on Twitch but I haven't seen you play in forever. Whuddafuxup with that man?
Pretty sure he's been pumping out these phase 2 videos in all his free time.
WOW is that all u need on your bar
Druid guide nxt
You are saying how to keep top dps as rogue, but why are you not actually showing it in molten core / ony runs? Show in the video how u are actually top dpsing the charts thats the only you to prove it actually works... showing a rogue fighting a dummy is not really proving your point sorry
Because that would take too much time. To fuel the demands of a self-imposed daily upload schedule, Punkrat has to churn out redundant, easy content. In cases such as this one, he possibly skimmed a couple Rogue guides and used them as a basis to create this video - which happens to be less informative than the guides the video's actually based upon.
lota misinformation here
David Curran indeed and missing important details
Feint is a dps loss, just vanish
I'm always top dps as a rogue for guild runs. Easy. Why tell backstab spec rogues to use ambush as opener when they are not even spec'd into Ambush? It's better to use BS as a opener..
I was debating about that as well since backstab for me is nearly a consistent 2 CP where ambush has less of a chance of hitting a crit.
I was tempted to play rogue until reading their rotation and then watching this video. Much like retail....they have a 2-button rotation, zzzzzzz
Step 1 you reroll warrior
*seal fate
why no riposte fukin OP
Wouldn't it be usually you're not gonna parry because the tank is taking aggro?
Yep you're about as smart as the average rogue.