Worlds Largest OpenRC F1 - The First Drive?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ธ.ค. 2018
- WOW. We took the OpenRC F1 car for it's first drive! The motor was in, batteries charged, and skies were clear. It was time to see if 3d printing this huge race car paid off!
#3dprinting #openrc #worldslargest
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1:08 When your crush gives you a compliment
AHAHAH
Joel needs to make that a gif for us all to enjoy.
7 Sage Labs yes he does
Print the axle and the bushings with iglidur, this could work out quite well ;)
imitation is the greatest form of flattery relatable
This was awesome. Maybe replace the belt drive with a gear drive. That way the force isn’t pulling on the axle. Also consider a 3D printed ball bearing design for the axles like the ones used for Filament Spools. It should spread out the surface contact.
agreed... most rc car kits do it this way. team associated RC-10 has since the late 70's and it runs phenomenal.
Using nylon bushings might work as well. Although heat might still be a concern, at least nylon shouldn't chew up the PLA shafts.
Mount the drive gear and belt in the middle of the axle. This will distribute the pressure evenly. Using a bearing will only solve part of the problem. You need to distribute the force evenly. This is why in cars the transfer case is in the middle of the rear axle.
the problem with gear drive like stated in a previous video is that the motor's torque would destroy plastic to plastic gears. He could swap from the GT2 belt to a sprocket with a chain, but that would add more weight and also change the top speed of the RC car depending on the sprocket gear ratio..
@@toyotaboyhatman keep in mind, those are injection molded nylon. Also, keep in mind the weight of this model! If anyone has the exact mass, pls post it, but I think it was north of 20 kg BEFORE the motor and electronics were added!
Here you can see a real excited Nerd in its natural habitat. 1:08
Love u Joel
@3D Printing Nerd : 6810 bearings would fit for your rear axle. These are sized: 50x65x7 can be bought for a few dollars a piece from ebay.
you didn't get heat death because you went so slow. you will need bearings for the front once you get that thing moving at any kind of decent speed.
Agreed. The friction at running speed will destroy the bushings. But It will be fun to watch the front brakes slam on when he does drive it!
You need basicly every part proper made to drive it at any decent speed, plastic tires don't have grip, decent suspension and shocks, stronger axles, its fun that its possible to make, but to drive a decent car at that scale.. Think XO-1 or Shredder.
The bushings... oh... I facepalm here... actually I've didn't believed that these are not bearings... before he cracked up them. Badly printed bearings can be melted too... But not so easy and quickly. The 3dNerd did destroyed a good axle (a lot of plastic) to prove himself that bushings are not acceptable here :)
Silicone grease instead of graphite powder.
You want to find Super Lube, it's what we used on the RC cars back in the day, and of course bearings.
www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-21030-Synthetic-Grease/dp/B07HR46FKV/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1545073686&sr=8-4&keywords=super+lube
use heavy ball brearing grease and stop fooling around. you cant expect any lubrication if the surfaces arent even smooth. No amount of grease will work if you have sandpaper against sandpaper
or Tamiya Anti-Wear grease works well, too. Heck, Tamiya RC cars still runs on plastic and metals bearings for all I know ^_^
molymulebdeum greaseworks great for pitted surfaces it has plate lits that fill in he microscopic dents
Heavy ball bearings can make a joke with this conctruction... IMO it's better to print some decent plastic bearings. With sizes where the rollers will not be micro-sized. And I could place two pairs of identical plastic bearings there. A lot of space. It will load off that axle good. Plus some good lube and it's done. Will not work on high speeds of course but these bearings will be lite-weighted and it's important IMO.
But need to work with nylon or PETG (at least).
That is completely wrong belt standard for that application, atleast go for 11mm or 15mm with. When it slips its always on the motor pulley since that has the fewest theeth that enganges. Its possible to run 2-4kW though a printed teeth pulley when done right :) Also with a slightly larger motor pulley you wouldn't need to overtighten the belt, and belt efficiency would be a lot higher. (For everyone that wants to learn about printed pulleys check out Tom Stanton's ebike on YT).
I was thinking myself the belt looked a little thin
Also a different axle design might worth a shot. This fletened one is simple, but it has stress pionts, where a lot of heat is built up.
It would be much better to use 3d printed gears - they don't need tightening
Mount the drive gear and belt in the middle of the axle. This will distribute the pressure evenly. You need to distribute the force evenly. This is why in cars the transfer case is in the middle of the rear axle.
Widening the belt will only solve part of the problem. As Joel said the belt wasn't slipping it was the poorly distributed force on the rear axle bushings.
@@Scott_C that wouldn't be that big of a problem if they used a method which transfers torque more evenly.
Or just make the axle completely round at the bushing.
Been waiting for this video since MRRF2018. So happy to see it finally moving under its own power. Well done!
Great job Joel! It was a blast being a part of this inspiring project. =)
Actually until this was suggested to me, I only knew Open RC as 'Open Rollercoaster Tycoon'
Oh wow!
1)If you designed and 3d printed a gearbox for the motor you could then use a drive cog on the rear axel and reduce the loading created by the belt tensioning making the plastic parts last longer.
2) You could play round with printing bushing's with different materials, you could set up a jig in your workshop to see which one works best and last longest.
3) I know you are going to try keep as true to the original as possible but it doesn't surprise me you are finding you need to reinforce certain areas. The bigger motors tend to have more torque and also weight doesn't tend to scale particularly well so while it might be 4X scale i am guessing you are more than 4X the weight?
Weight tends to be a function of volume and therefore cubic. So, 4x4x4=64 x the weight.
Yeah he could contact "gear down for what"
@@martindinner3621 32x
@@Spooglecraft 4x4x4 is 64
why bushings? 3d-printed bearings of similar sizes are easy to make (there is a constructor on Thingiverse).
This is great, awesome to have the progress videos, looking forward to seeing how far this project will go!!
1:08 Little kid trying to contain his excitement on Christmas day
Awesome!! - we all knew you were going to need to iterate the design especially for PLA on PLA and you were very clear about this. Can't wait to see the next run - hopefully at MRRF 2019.
Looking forward to "take 2" thank you for the many hours of enjoyment in 2018, I can't wait to see what you have ins store for us in 2019. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
I love that you showed the problem area. Looking forward to the next revision! I hope to see it zoom pass the camera in the next video! I love that an iPhone was used to film that.
Such an amazing project Joel!
Next the FK1, open RC project.
It didn't even work lol
@@AG.Floats sure it did. Maybe it did not do what you wanted, but it moved under it's own power. That is a win to me. :)
This was awesome. Many things require many iterations to reach success. I love that you were willing to share the successes and failures and your plans to improve and make it better. Awesome work.
Nice job. Can't wait for the next episode.
Ayy it drove !!! Super cool. Can't wait to see improvements !!
Well done Joel! You're getting there!
Thanks!
Fantastic work Joel. Progress was made, information was gathered and FUN was had. Keep up the good work. Cheers, JAYTEE
“Wheels on the bus go round and round...” good work!!!
This is an amazing build. Love watching your progress with it.
Dude! This was awesome! Can't wait for the next stage!
Great project! I think what I like most is the mix of skills you need to finish this, designing, printing, gluing, electronics. I think it was a great idea to find experts for those sub steps and include them. If I could have wished for something, than it would have been a deeper look into the electronics.
As a RC Car guy.... once you add the bearings you are going to have so much fun with this thing!!! This is an awesome and amazing project... I have really enjoyed your journey getting this bad boy to the point it is now and cannot wait to see how far you can take it... maybe you can race it one day with others that have built an 1/4 scale Open R/C. 🤔
I waited so long to see this run, I hope you fix the little problems. Beautiful car
What a brilliant way to teach design, C.A.D., material science, electronics etc., etc.
Great work, truely amazing.
Joel love that it worked. Happier that you are going to try to fix the issues. You know that hole in the back is killing me though because I want to make it shoot fire!!!!
YEAAH!! I've been waiting for this for so long!!!!!! Great job Joel.
This is so cool I can't wait to see it fixed up and running again
Great work guys. Like you said Joel, not a failure, a learning experience.
It’s alive! Congrats! What a wonderful maiden voyage on such a cool undertaking. Or is it an “upscaling”. IDK. I had a thought, is there any advantage to swapping the rings or the axel for 3D printed nylon or some higher heat tolerant filament? A bearing would be the most ideal though for sure. So fun to see it move in any case. Great job Joel.
Why not print a pair of needle bearings?
You could use 1.75mm filament sections for the needles and print the races. The graphite powder would only need to lubricate the surfaces between the needles.
Good call. But pack the bearings with grease like the real ones.
At that scale 3mm filament could be the rollers.
Just awesome! Looking @ you guys (and your enthusiasm) makes even me feel like a kid testing his new toy. Love it! Greetings from Belgium ;-)
It's great to see it moving! I'd say the belt was slipping because the bearing was seizing. Friction welding can happen from high pressure or high speed. If this thing had long-term use in its future, it just needs bearings.
very cool. nice work
i am loving this can not wait for up date
I completely agree, the belt is constantly pulling against the bearing causing excessive wear on the PLA bushing. If you look at the bushing it should look like an oval where the projective plane of the oval is parallel with the pulling force of the belt. The use of meshed gears would help to alleviate this as it would remove the tension of the belt. However there will be the constant tension of gravity exacerbated by heat on these PLA parts.
The solution you propose should be "good enough", however if you want to run this at any speed for longer periods of time, but keep as much as this car PLA, then you need an inner and outer bearing surface where the parts meet and are under a friction load.
Great show!
IT'S ALIVE!!! Amazing job 3DPN.
Dude...just printing that thing at that scale is an awesome accomplishment. You'll get er all tuned up!
I think you are AWESOME for just having the idea, then working thru everything while the whole world was watching.Great work!
Thank you!
Such a fun project Joel! High five great work!!
Nice project! Realy liked it.
Bearings will be the answer, because what your doing with the both plastics binding is in affect your plastic welding I know because I used to make float switches and that's how they were put together, looking forward to seeing it run fully nice job
As you state in your postmortem. It was the pulling of the belt on one side of the axle which caused the high pressure on one side of the drive train.
Mount the drive gear and belt in the middle of the axle. This will distribute the pressure evenly. Only using a bearing will only solve part of the problem. You need to distribute the force evenly. This is why in cars the transfer case is in the middle of the rear axle.
Good to see it finally moving, glad you're getting some real bearings on it. I have to wonder if 3d Printed roller bearings would do a nice job. Good luck.
Thanks for reassuring me that I wasn't going mad when I thought I saw Barnacules (Jerry) in the mix! I'd love to see the two of you collab more.
Cant you buy igus bushing filament?
When the belt slips the car sounds a bit like a real f1 car
I love how much your mouse-scale formula e squeaks.
This was awesome buddy! Progress!
So awesome seeing it move! If you are going to stick with belt drive, a spring loaded idler pulley to tension the belt might let you get away with less tension and adjustments. It can increase the belt contact area on the pulleys for more grip. You would end up with another pla on pla friction spot. Snowblower auger belts use this design. (can you guess what I fixed recently?😂)
Belt tensioner, bearings & fill the with a lot of graphite. Great first run!
I think using silicon grease would have been better than graphite..but a full metal bearing would be better (danco in plumbing at lowes)
Such an ambitious project, great job
Yes I've been waiting so long to see this video
When the rear wheels are that far apart, you most definately need a differential !!!
It will make the car drive so much easier...!!
Where's the next installment with bearings? We're already halfway through 2019 :(
Guessing this is the last video in the series so far? Loving it, just got my first 3d printer and it's not quite ready yet, but I'm super excited and loving your stuff.
Are you just stuck on finding the right size bearings?
I was nearly giddy when I saw the thumbnail then I felt do, so bad for you when it started having issues so soon. It moved! It's amazing in that aspect. I have been so enamored of this project. Why not go sith a wooden axle? I know you wanted to do as much of it out of PLA as possible but you used other materials when necessary. Why not step back and replace the axle with wood or metat. . . or even a different plastic like nylon that will resist the temperature? Cannot wait to see it really open up! Best wishes for the holidays to you and your family, Joel!
Honestly it will be fine with a plastic axle. What it needs are metal bearings and a wider drive belt.
Awesome work Joel! 👍🏻👊🏻 Perhaps besides the addition of the bearings and tensioner, using a toothed belt would help to reduce the amount of overall tension required to drive it without slippage.
It's a great build, but am surprised you did not add the bearings as I think we all new the plastic parts were going to bind up together, also that drive belt could do with being wider so it gives more grip on the pulleys as you want this car to go fast, can't wait to see this work with these mods, but really cool idear look forward to seeing the next video.
Well, there was a high chance it would bind, but, it didn't bind in the way I thought it would. Believe me, once I am back from MRRF, bearings are going in it.
It was interesting to watch and yes it is easy to suggest changes after the fact. 😉 Sounds like a kids Big Wheel on rough concrete sidewalk. 😂
awesome job!!
The huge size difference between the two pulley wheels means not many teeth are engaging on the motor's pulley. I think you need an idler wheel to push the loose belt down and get more teeth engaging with the pulley on the motor, and might have to relocate the motor a bit to accommodate that. And as an added bonus you can make the idler wheel adjustable and/or spring loaded so you can solve the belt tension problems.
Yessss!!! Been waiting so long for this moment! 😂
Just frigging awsome 👍👍👏👏👏👏
Great build! Looking forward to the 2.0 version! High five
Is there a link to video of Rober assembling the RC electronics? It's not in the playlist
I am SO glad you put the car driving part at the beginning. If I had to wait through a long video for that I would have unsubscribed hahaha
Did I see Bill there on one camera?
yep - and Barnacules too
*waves*
This is just EPIC!!!
i just don't see the whole point of keeping everything plastic. Bearings are ceramic/metallic for a reason, and the belt system looks highly unprofessional. This project would've been more impressive, (not trying to undermine it) if some actual engineering calculations are done, instead of plain scaling up of a model.
the channel is 3D printing nerd... not professional RC Nerd... the point was to scale it up as much as possible, 3d print everything possible, and see if it would work. it did. now, he is making some changes so it works better. the project is 100% 3d printing centered, not to make something outside of 3d printing look professional. not too difficult to wrap your head around.
Erik Lawrence but then make it into something 3D printed that actually works. 3D printing isn’t plastic only...
I dont understand what you mean by "engineering calculations" & "unprofessional" we still have tons of heavy machinery that are friction belt driven for their powertrain with shitty plastic tensioners. There is nothing wrong with their approach hell they even have a leg up using a toothed system.
We use belt driven rc drift cars
There are plenty of motorcycles built today that use this belt style system, and some are even on the drag strip. I used to be scepticle about the idea until i saw the capabilities.
I have used dry Teflon bike lube (for chain and sprocket) on PLA to PLA bearings. It drys to a waxy coating and reduces friction and wear a lot. In the case of a belt drive where there is much tension needed to keep a very small drive wheel from skipping teeth, I think you need to rethink the drive arrangement or get a more heavy duty bearing arrangement. I would go for a metal sleeve over the bearing part of the existing shaft riding on a nylon printed bearing with a very high fill and many walls.
Thoughts:
1. Mount another gear for the belt to the axle mount *behind* the axle. That way, all of the pressure from the belt will be balanced--up and back at the bottom of the axle gear & down and forward at the top of it. Yes, you won't have as many teeth engaging, but there won't be uneven pressure on the axle. Alternatively, use the current belt setup and add a second belt going to the rear (idle) gear. That would maximize the number of teeth engaged while also completely balancing the forward and backward forces on the axle. (Now that I think about it, to perfectly balance the forces acting on the axle, both the motor and idle gear should be mounted *below* the plane of the axle, as gravity will cause the mass of the vehicle to press the axle against the top of the bushing. By the belts pulling *down* on the axle, there would be less pressure against the top of the bushing.)
2. Use *two* bushings with a tiny gap between them that matches up with a reservoir built into the axle mount that holds a large quantity of graphite. That way there will be a constant source of lubrication.
3. Would a carbon fibre or metal-infused filament be considered cheating? If not, matching axle and bushing surfaces should reduce friction.
4. Mating surfaces should not just be sanded, but *lapped* until they are mirrors. That alone will reduce friction by an *incredible* amount.
Hope this helps!
awesome fun, still loving this project
BTW, who was that skinny guy that looked a bit like Barnacules? Doing great fella
Joel, love the idea that build itself! Great execution it works... Sort of. Three words for you if I was going to do this Kamaan Be bearing sales, give them your shaft sizes ID and OD in they'll get you some bearings. I do understand your point was to do as much as possible without using metal but at least a set of bearings would have saved the project a little bit
I use 3d printed parts made froom Aprintapro PLA and PETG in my RC Scale Crawlers, they hold up to extremely rough handling on demanding trails.
With the right lubrication and print settings you will be able to make it much more resiliant. I'd change the geometry of the drivewheel to use a coarse timing belt and use PETG on the bushings(this material tends to slip better on other PETG parts than PLA. you can drastically reduce the stress on the pully by adding more stages of transmission to increase torque. a gear ratio o 1:25 is considered aminimum in RC
YES! I've been waiting for so long!
Will you be at mrrf this year with the car? Id love to check it out q vit closer than i got to lastyear
🍺🍺 Congrats. Great to see it finally run
From an r/c guy, dump that belt setup. It's going to put too much stress on the axle as you found out. Print two carrier gears, rework the piece that mounts to the axle as a gear. Then print a cover to help keep everything aligned properly, and test again. Another reason to switch to gears is to control the possible speed the car can go.
Finally!!!! Was waiting for do long
Hardly a failure as it moved and worked. We all learned a lot too. 👏👏👏
Close, I spent 1 year in a 3d print airplane, it flew 3 seconds, and I am back to the next iteration, you cannot work in engineeging if you are not embracing failure as a learning process. Thanks! good luck with the bearings! wish me luck with my project
Joel: What might also help with prolonging axle life would be if you made little crescent sections for where the axle rides in the bearing in order to make it a full circle there.
If you're going for 3d printed bushing possibly use acetal/POM/delrin. It has great low friction and wear resistance. I wonder how it would hold up with a pla axle rubbing against it.
You should add a halo in the next episode!
you've got bores for the axle, just press in roller element bearings from McMaster after re-sizing them along with the axle-shaft.
6S Pulse battery. Damn guys that is a hulk of a power source!
What about using the gear bearing spinners for your bearings. I spun them up really fast with a drill and they stayed cool. I feel they would hold up for a while. I am talking about the same gear bearing Prusa has as a test print. Might have to scale it up due to your axle being so large.
Wow Jerry even was involved. Good to see him
As you said, You had some slip on the belt at the drive pulley, Well you use around 20% of the teeth. I would have added 2 bearings above and under the pulley so the belt will get around 50% use of the pulley. This is how i mean, The 2 dots are the bearing and the (o) is the pulley [ : o ]
More grip and more torque can be applied!
But cool and funny build :D
I’m willing to bet that the pla axle is going to be an issue even with a metal bearing. That thing has to be bowing under belt tension. Still an awesome project to undertake and I can’t wait to see where it goes from here. Kudos 3D Printing Nerd.
Brushless motors have a lot of torque so I suspect his gear ratio was way off for the motor. A much bigger pinion pulley and smaller spur pulley will give better tooth engagement on the belt so it won't need to be so tight. On racing RC F1 cars we are geared at about 1.8:1 with brushless motors. This one looked more like it was 50:1. Also if you use a coarse tooth instead of a fine tooth you'll get no slippage with only a slight amount of tension.
Joel you need to go full bearing in all of the axles, I know you can make it move with just bearings on the rear, however I want to see this run as fast as it possibly can for as long as it can. You and many other have demonstrated that 3d printed parts can go a long way, however they have a limit on what they can accomplish by itself, doing a combination of 3d plastic and metal components is the best route. Another suggestion is to change the rear axle to something made of metal if possible like a threaded steel pipe :D. If I can do anything to help let me know.
Dude the RC car geeks know what they’re talking about. I’ve worked on a few large RC cars. My favorite was the XMAXX truck
If you want to keep it plastic use delrin. It is designed to be used as a bushing material for metal and or plastic contact. Very slick! Almost feels like Teflon.
Some tips:
1) try bushings with different materials
2) try 3D printing bearings - this works (i can send you the stl if you give me the dimensions: D_out, Din, heigt)
3) the GT2 belt is rubbish - they are 0,75mm high - so if your belt is becomming ~2mm longer or the distance betwen the two axis becom ~1mm shorter they might skip as you experienced. therefore i woud use some biger belt ore chain -> bigger teeth means that you don't need that much tension therefore the bushings shoud work better
I second the printed bearings! Needle bearings would work best. Spread out the load. Oh and pack them with grease.