Starship Lore : Borg Ships - Fleet of Disappointment
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2018
- Whats up Lore Masters,
Today we are looking at Borg Ships including the Borg Sphere , Borg Probe, and Borg Scout .. Basically Borg ships - A fleet of Disappointment!
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Here's an idea, what if the reason behind the Borg's apparent technological regression is due to the efforts of Temporal Agents like Daniels in response to Borg attempts to disrupt the timeline in their favor like in First Contact?
Violating directives - prime or otherwise - was never a concern for the Federation when their interests were at stake. I like this theory!
Temporal Agent philosophy: They started it!!!
I really don't see anyone giving a f*** about the temporal prime directive when it comes to the Borg...
@Torchbearer Of the Republic unless they were influenced by Section 31.
I wonder if some of the "problems" that ST:V has with regards to the Borg seeming to be so de-powered is a result of the budget cuts that Paramount made to First Contact. In the early drafts, the opening space battle was supposed have another 5+ minutes of screen time and was to be with a fleet of over 50 cubes (and I think at least one of them was a larger, more heavily armored cube housing the queen and the sphere) taking on a Federation fleet of 100 to 150 ships, with the Federation ships doing quite well in the engagement, by the time Ent-E gets there more than half of the Borg fleet has been destroyed, while the Federation fleet has also suffered some serious losses, but mostly to ships being partially or fully disabled and thus unable to continue following the Borg fleet as it heads towards Earth at high warp, not outright destroyed ships. And the Ent-E, being one of the newest, most combat oriented ships absolutely wreaks havoc on the remaining Borg cubes escorting the sphere carrying cube.
Had they kept this version of the battle, it would have demonstrated that the Fed was rapidly catching up to the Borg and that their auto-modulating shields and weapons advances had largely nullified the advantages of the Borg subspace fields (giving a reason for the Borg to start using more conventional graviton shield emitters) while also allowing Federation ships to "hang in the fight" for far longer against a cube, and that in particular the newer Federation ships (such as Sovereign, Akira, Defiant, and of course Intrepid classes) were particularly potent against the Borg, which would have been a great segway explaining how Voyager has so much success in combating Borg ships that only a few years before could basically laugh at an entire squadron of Galaxy class starships opposing them.
So like every other problem with ST, I feel it's a combination of lazy writing and CBS/Paramount being so damn miserly with the budgets.
So basically what we see in Star Trek Online with the Borg (mainly the deep space encounters and TFOs)
If the borg ever sent a REAL fleet, the Terran system would be killed off pretty quick.
10 cubes could do it
The 3-part novel series "Destiny" and the followup stand-alone novel "A Singular Destiny" did that; the Borg finally got fed up with the Federation and its allies thwarting them and sent a massive fleet of thousands of Cubes into the Alpha Quadrant with the sole intent of scouring every planet of the Federation, Klingon Empire and Romulan Empire clean of resistance.
In the books, didn't the federation share Admiral Janeway's future tech and the new propulsion method with all the other allies? That, in my opinion, is making everyone too OP - can't understand why you would send 1000s of cubes, when you could have 1 cube steadily assimilate and build up invasion fleets in the Beta Quadrant?
@@sigmacademy I personally believe that the Borg are using the Federation to farm technology
I wonder if they'll run out of geometric shapes.
Behold: The Borg Decahedron, Oval, Rhombus, Square, and Moebius Strip!
Borg Paralleogram! Or the most devastating of all, the Borg Irregular Polygon!
Boisegang behold the borg torus, the borg cylinder, the borg cone and the strongest of them all the borg Rhombicosidodecahedron (yes that last one actually exists)
Borg Tesseract. At times I'm surprised Voyager didn't go there, just to have Janeway and company beat a four-dimensional Borg ship. Just think of how badly Voyager's writers could have messed up such an idea...
Not really. They'll just start to merge different shapes together. The Diamond is literally 2 pyramids with the bases facing each other. XD XD XD
How many turns would that Moebius strip have?
The pyramid was a planet assimilator ship, the Tactical Cube was a heavily armored Cube, The Tactical fusion cube was a fusion of 8 Tactical Cubes, The Borg Hypercube was a four-dimensional class of starship employed by the Borg Collective in a possible future. As it was only ever encountered inside of a transwarp conduit, it is unclear whether it can exist in real space.
Duo Maxwell the pyramid is an assimilated goa'uld cheops class ship (not) . (I know Stargate came after Trek)
Right? You would think with the Borg capability to enter other dimensions and built extra-dimensional structures, they would have access to much better technology?
@Amber Hoke Characters in Stargate are actively aware of Star Trek is the only problem. It is mentioned quite a few times.
@Amber Hoke Well, alternate realites can still manage a lot, lol.
I enjoyed the references myself. (They also mention Star Wars a few times.) For example:
- O'Neill wonders if the X-302 has phasers. (Carter responds: "Sorry, sir.)
- O'Neill wants to call the X-303 "The Enterprise." Carter says they can't do that. It ends up being Prometheus.
- In "The Other Guys," the three science geeks compare what they do to Star Trek. One is accused of worshipping at the feet of Roddenberry (in a good way). (One of them is also the actor who plays Dr. Phlox)
We never got a Borg Pyramid :'(
Guillermo Velasco pappa necron said no
If you’ve played Star Trek armada. They have a triangle and it is a colony ship.
vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starmadaii/images/3/33/Borgcolony.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110805182523 we did in star trek armada
@Rand0m27 I was about to say the same thing. I don't think those games count as cannon though.
Also unique to that game is that it is the only colony ship that wasn't destroyed in the process. All others would be dismantled to make the colony.
Watch Stargate.
Should the Borg have only been the cubes? Well . . . They do need support ships. There would be some jobs that a Borg cube is just too big to do, and others where sending an entire massive cube is ridiculously inefficient. And we know how much they hate inefficiency.
But these ships really don't strike fear into your heart like the cubes did. It doesn't help that they all came out of the woodwork at about the time that the Borg lost their edge and stopped being scary.
First, you see Borg cubes most often, even in places where you see other Borg ships. There may be a Diamond in the area, flanked by three or four cubes, so my speculation is that the Borg cube CAN BE a support ship, and the others are specialized ships that do specific things. Maybe they should be called "minor" ships, kinda like a guided-missile frigate, as opposed to a battleship.
In terms of the Borg losing their edge, I agree, but I think it was primarily the writing of Voyager that did that. Now granted, Voyager had to cross Borg territory to get home, but that's an easy deal to make if you are the Borg, given the possible chaos that happens if Voyager finds the central hub ... you escort them through Borg space with about four cubes, make sure they stay on course, and that's it ... but then, we would not have Seasons 4 -7 of Voyager then ...
Instead, they turned the Borg into the next villain of the week, and completely ruined them. My question is, what happens to the Borg after Voyager? It's not like if you kill the queen of a bee colony that the entire colony is destroyed ... the next queen simply takes over.
They could've used smallr cubes. Other than with more complicated designs like the BoP, a cube is easily up and downscaled without issues.
Honestly, I preferred them to just be cubes. I was willing to accept the sphere as something for the Queen alone, meaning that not every cu e would have one. Since the Borg are so efficient and logical, I can't really fathom why they needed all of these other shapes.
I would like to think that in order to make the Borg remain a threat forever, you literally had 100s or even 1000s of Borg queens suddenly cut off from the Collective, each struggling to re-establish control over their own scouting missions, task forces, expeditions, invasion fleets or individual ships (in much the same was as the Borg Cooperative) in our galaxy, across the universe and in other dimensions. That way, you can retcon the ending of the Borg in the books, and still have the Borg around and available for many more stories.
Wasn't Unimatrix Zero just a mass of interconnected cubes? It looked that way in the TV series?
The Borg were amazing villains until the introduction of a "Queen" in First Contact. All downhill from there, and blame rests solely with the writers.
The whole fleet should be nothing but cubes. Stays true to the original concept and you can save on production costs by re-using the same model over and over.
Yeah the whole thing that was scary about the Borg was how soulless they were. The cube perfectly encapsulates what they were. Straight lines and industrial feel underlines their artificial nature, and the simplicity of a cube shape eliminates any sense of creativity or culture. That's what's scary about them, they aren't wasting any time on aesthetics, they are spending all of their time on assimilating others which makes them more powerful so they can assimilate even more.
When you have a quiet, variation in ships, etc. it starts feeling like they aren't completely focused on assimilating other civilizations... it gives the feeling they have some kind of culture and that makes them a lot less scary.
Yeah, but Alice Krige was born for the role!
Based on the fact that they didn't use a cube? It's not the first time, they'd done it plenty of times before. A Borg ship from one of the shows even looks like something from Tron!!!
I argue that its was Hue in TNG that ruined 'Borg Lore' (though it was a great episode). There are billions of them all over the place operating perfectly for thousands of years but one of them gets on the Enterprise and discovers a self of self identity - after which, their collective society falls apart... but when it was convenient, they'd often forget this if it got in the way of their story telling, lol.
The Borg Queen is what happens when assimilation goes very wrong and a oddity results - beyond predicitability
@@stanleyjedrzejczyk2966 I don´t even get what people have against the Queen it herself..She essentially does the same Locutus did...Noone can tell me that Locutus was not in "command" of THAT cube...Just should´ve made her a character LIKE Locutus...not that"i am the one that is many" but simply"I am a gloryfied Voicepipe in a somewhat alluring skintight suit"
a single cube could abduct an entire earth level planetary population of humanoids.
making them use smaller ships was simply to bring them down to a level inept writers could deal with.
The idea that a single cube could do that was pretty hard to swallow, frankly. Maybe against a relatively primitive population by using zombie horde tactics.
@@Swiftbow been a while since i looked into it, but iirc, even isaac arthur did the maths to demonstrate it. the rest is just humans failing to conceptualise scale, and star trek writers being a trash fire who spend more energy writing space home&away with plotlines that should never have left fanfiction.net rather than decent scifi.
@X Y they havent been seen in the presence of decent writing either.
@X Y
I would guess that a Cube's normal crew compliment is only so many as needed to operate the ship. The strategy would be to leave lots of space on the ship, then fill it with new Borg after conquering a planet.
I have a crazy theory. What if the borg vessels grow in to borg cubes? The core is the borg diamond thing, then it grows to a probe, then to a sphere, then the sphere is incased in the cube that was built around it. For some strange reason this makes more sense than the borg being some specialized culture.
That's an interesting idea. As much as I hate to use this as a reference, but it's a bit like how Pokemon start small and weak but evolve into bigger and more powerful forms until achieving an ultimate form?
I never could quite get my head around the idea of the Borg building such massive Cube ships from scratch in a shipyard, mostly because I have a hard time accepting the Borg putting out anything as specialized as a shipyard.
Given how the Borg operate, I'd imagine they capture and assimilate ships of other species, then modify them into a core Borg design that they build up on and eventually it becomes a Cube, like you said. That idea would go a long, long way towards explaining the hodgepodge almost organic designs of the exterior and interior looks of the Borg ships and would also nicely fill in a couple holes in Borg ship designs, i.e. why the Borg ships in TNG look so different from the one in First Contact and the ones in Voyager; those were "younger" Cubes that were probably one of the smaller stages when they got to the Alpha Quadrant but were in the process of building themselves into full sized Cubes when they were encountered by Starfleet. The Cube in First Contact was an older ship that was sent all the way from the Delta Quadrant and was already "finished".
That actually makes a lot of sense. When you see the different Borg scenes, you actually get the idea that it might actually be several Borg vessels mashed together. We have seen a Borg cube with an ejecting Sphere. We have seen the Diamond, which definitely has a mix and match aesthetic and functionality, so it would make sense that the Cubes would be more powerful, because it is the combined components of several other Borg vessels which was interlinked with each other? We also have never seen Borg shipyards on the screen, so it would make sense that it could be that something that was built layer on layer, until it is completed as a Cube. Cubes then, would be interlinked to form an Unimatrix.
Because "Quantum" Should I tell Anti-Trekker that you've borrowed his cry?
When did I miss the Borg in the Kelvin timeline? I've watched all three of the movies and don't remember anything about a borg.
Comics which are canon for the jj verse
Ah....I was barely interested enough to watch the movies....comic books based on the movie weren't gonna get bought. (Shrug)
Oh the borg can travel back in time?
Oh they lost to VOYAGER?
maybe... And bear with me here... Borg are not the most consistent...
Look, have *YOU* ever tried to get networked computer systems to work properly? The file server with their time travel technology probably got disconnected from borgnet. They'd really be better off if they, you know, talked to each other.
What if they just brought the queen with them like they did in first contact? Or communicate though the transceiver like Harry kim used to communicate with 7 of 9 in the past
A kot of entities in Trek have time-travel technology. It's a wonder the temporal department of Starfleet didn't get wind of this and shut the whole thing down ...
Also, about Voyager beating the Borg, please remember that again, it was a time-travelling Janeway that even set that whole thing up. If it hadn't have been for her, they might still be doing the series and the ship might still be trying to get home (sorta like an interstellar Gilligan's Island ... )
Richard: Have you tried turning your Borg Collective off and then back on again? Have you updated the firmware on your multi-modal reflective sorting WIFI router? Can you run an Iso-CAIT5 cable through the temporal wormhole and connected directly to the Borgnet domain?
Politics City If it's a pre-destination paradox the temporal department couldn't do anything anyway. The federation exists because a captain from the future tried to kill Voyager then got trapped in the 90's where the technology was stolen to lead to humanity having the technology to begin with. Although this means that if the Timeship in "Year of Hell" managed to erase voyager who would have erased the entire federation as well. A bigger question is why the Ferengi aren't caught breaking temporal law every day. I mean, profit defines their afterlife. Why not use time travel for profit?
I would have loved to have seen Borg accountants, the most powerful type.
Why did they only send one ship at a time? Accounting. The break into fluid space was basically an Office Space -style rebellion against the suits.
Suits won that argument. Then were blown up on that planet in Voyager.
If a borg probe is the match of an intrepid then...
It’s more powerful than a tactical cube.
Specialization undercuts the true Borg aesthetic and Modus Operandi (M.O.). All their ships can do whatever they need when they need. The Borg is functionally incapable of having only specific ships that can only do a thing. There should be NO differentiation, unless current tactics and strategies require it. But then [it] would be limited to few Cubes in a limited region.
As a result, ALL BORG SHIPS SHOULD BE CUBES.
nah we have a queen a half dozen ships that accomplish nothing and run them into the ground the slaughter at wolf 359 is forgotten and people viwe the borg as having the same threat as cobra commander from the 80 cartoon.
Cobra Commander had style tho...
Keep in mind, the Borg is just reconfigured technology of a race from a while ago... that just kind of had a weird glitch to how it worked.
There was a war that happened... a few wires got crossed with their cyborg implants--and boom, the collective is now a thing all due to a product glitch and failure.
Since that collective thing only happened due to a weird software glitch that was made worse by being in a war... it is not really capable of being 100% consistent. More just like... 90% consistent.
Actually, it makes sense to have specialized ships or technology. Some scenarios (like mapping the inside of a wormhole of a specific size) would demand ships or vessels of a specific size and/or function to provide the necessary tool for the task at hand. The Cubes are the battleships/dreadnoughts of the Borg fleet, so it would make sense that you wouldn't send your dreadnoughts on patrol or scouting duties, but rather have them focusing on heavily armored targets like home worlds or high-value targets like certain technologies onboard prototype star ships or star bases.
I'd like to see a shift where you see many different types of ships that instead of Borg using Cubes most of the time we see Borg that assimilate alien vessels, and dramatically improve them for their purposes while still maintaining the general shape of the ship. Would be cool to see a Romulan warbird that's been assimilated by the Borg.
Would love for the Borg to be redeemed with consistency and returned to their godlike badassness
Honestly im intrested to see how they handle borg in discovery... With their budget they could make it look so pretty! However they'll find a way to ruin them completely, just can't beat Michael..... What if the borg assimilated her?
Nah she'd find a way to resist it and destory all borg
Voltage 483 I would only support the Borg showing up in Discovery if they somehow triggered a temporal Cascade that erased all of Discovery and brought us back to the original Prime universe, preferably with all of the original cast gathered in a room looking confused and saying "what the hell just happened?"
That would be epic.. But they'd still feck it up
Are Cats Gay? And it was all just a bad dream
Star Trek and consistency go together like peanut butter and pepperoni.
Tbh, if the Diamond was the Queen's personal ship, that ship should've been used in First Contact instead of a Sphere.
Given how many cubes the Borg seem to have, it actually surprises me that they have a need for other ships. And if they have a comparable number of other ships, Voyager should've run into them even more. Some say Voyager overused the Borg, but they were flying through the Borg's home quadrant, so more frequent encounters made sense. I think the real problem is that many of Voyager's victories over them didn't feel earned.
In Dark Frontier, we see that a mere Borg scout ship can match Voyager. If that ship had been a Sphere or Cube, Voyager would've been screwed if not for Plot Armor. But we never see any dedicated effort on part of the Voyager crew to actually find ways to effectively fight the Borg.
I'd be surprised if the other Borg ships couldn't adapt, either - adapting is literally the Borg's middle name. But since Spheres and especially Probes are much less powerful than Cubes, they may simply not be durable enough to make as effective use of that ability as a Cube could. A cube that hasn't adapted yet takes some damage, but it's so huge that even holes the Enterprise-D blew into it during Q Who wouldn't come close to stopping it. The same kind of damage would cripple a Probe, on the other hand.
I get the feeling that Seven of Nine was mostly responsible for most of Voyager's seemingly OP-status against the Borg; it wouldn't surprise me if she was working off-screen to enhance Voyager's weapons and shields to be more effective against the Borg, though given she was only one ex-drone against the entirety of the Collective, those few advantages were probably short-lived.
It’s worth noting that Borg adaptation does not make them invincible because they adapt through there Shields meaning if you have weapons that can put out more power or witle the Shields down like in the battle in First Contact then there’s no adapting the Borg can do and the Shields will fail that’s why I think the sphere and probe can adapt but they were just over powered by the ships they were up against or in the case of the probe on equal terms. That’s why Borg adaptation should be called optimization.
Its very inconsistent, they used to have subspace barriers capable of adapting to most things, then in voyager they switched to shields... Because shields are better than nigh invincible barriers
the adapt ability is not the most consistent, and I agree I believe there are limits to the borg's ability to adapt. for example at wolf 359 the federation had 1 shield type and a few phaser models in use with limited frequencies. come the battle at sector 001 the federation have multiple weapons, phaser beams and phaser cannons, various torpedoes types photon and quantum.
They have numerous phaser and torpedo models, multiple shield types including deflectors, multi-phasic, multi-spectrum and regenerative and they have armour on their ships ships with massively differing speed, agility and size capable of multiple types of attack at once.
if you have 40 star ships using 4 types of weapon, and there are 20 models of each and there are 200 frequencies to each model then there is no way the borg can adapt to them all at the same time.
People keep talking about how it was Voyager all these changes were made. Voyager mostly just retconned in and out a bunch of stuff added by the EU, TNG and DS9 that did really work that well together.
I agree with you for the most part, but I do have to point out that as more ships got damaged and destroyed, the amount of adaptation necessary would decrease. But I agree with you wholeheartedly that the initial assault on the Borg Cube would have had stacked damage due to concentrated fire, as evident when Picard orders the entire fleet to fire on a very specific point and the amount of damage that occurred every time phasers and torpedoes struck home. The original heavy damage might have been due to massive amounts of quantum torpedo volleys, as well as starships who due to being damaged too badly, rammed the cube in suicide runs. I wonder what would happen to a Borg cube if a starship rammed it at warp speed (yes, I saw the Star Wars scene, which makes me wonder)?
The episode with the queen ship, you mentioned that it was being damaged by weapon's fire. This is becasue the Queen was allowing it to be attacked in order to force Seven into a no win situation. Once Seven had adapted the ship to the weapons being fired at it, they were easily able to defeat the attacking ship and assimilate the planet.
what no fusion cube!
My favorite thing to do in Armada II is to turtle down behind a wall of defensive stations, build as many fusion cubes as map resources would allow then pop open a transwarp tunnel in the middle of the enemy base and just watch the debris fly as my fusion fleet steamrolled their defenses.
Borg should have stayed just the cube. And the Borg Queen was a dumb unnecessary idea that should have been axed.
the BORG SPHERE
is a redressed
DEATH STAR
that shows how big
VOYAGER was by being about
the same size as the
DEATH STAR
B-but what about the Borg Trapezoid, and the Right Angled Triangle, and of course how can we forget the famous Borg Rectangle!
My favorite will always be the Borg Tetrahedron.
A rectangle would be flat - as in - it would be impossible to see its sides; it's impossible
A wedge would be cool
And, as someone who loves ST, I have a love/hate relationship with ST:Voy... I love the characters, I love Voyager, I love how Janeway acts (she is doing her mission of getting her people home even though IMHO it would be best if she just found a nice M-Class world & settled down on it as there was no real chance for Voyager & her crew to ever make it home unless they had plot armor.... Plus, they got the Isokinetic Cannon, installed it, used it in on Ep, & then forgot it was on the bow of the ship... They had a F*CK*NG Mass Driver that could blow a Borg Cube up in one shot & they forgot about it... All you needed for ammo was iron, that is it... Nothing more, nothing less... Just iron & you can pick up iron from almost any asteroid...
What Isokinetic cannon? I don't remember anything about that.
Bewoulf1223 probably in a novel. It wasn't in the tv series
Yeah no weapon like that ever made the standard Voyager Show armament such weapons were only one or 2 time special use exotic weapons used for specific situations then discarded or used up or only existed apparently in alot the character's heads
Robert Agu well there was a tricobalt device but even then, I don't remember much other one time use weapons. Certainly nothing that boiled down to an iron canon so I'm confused what he's referring to.
The Isokenetic cannon was “installed” in the season 4 episode “Retrospect”. I put installed in quotes because it was never fully clear if it was or not. They fire a test shot from Voyager but then after that is when they negotiate for the purchase of the weapon and its installation. Which is seemingly never finished and the weapons merchant guy ends up dead. The implication being they never got it, the transaction being incomplete I guess. It’s seen as a plot hole by many because the ship is seen firing it, even if it’s just a single test shot, that they should be able to make it work or something. I think it could have been written more clearly, but it’s definitely not a cut and dry plot hole. And I have no idea what the OP is talking about an iron shooting mass driver that blows up Borg Cubes in one shot, that’s not what the isokenetic cannon was and nothing from the show that I recognize.
The Borg have encountered Starfleet in the JJ verse? Huh? I was really _really_ helping they'd battle the _Enterprise_ over there, but instead they decided to fight random aliens of the week--err, week of the three-year period.
I've been wondering - in "Into Darkness," there's a rather Borg-like bridge officer, and the Vengeance is built in a station that looked like a Borg cube. I thought JJ was going somewhere with that, but maybe it's totally random and he's never heard of the Borg or is picking things from here and there and using them in wrong ways (Klingon Warbirds, for instance).
@@XTINFILM Fits Jar Jar Abrams' M.O.
@@shinigamimiroku3723 The black cube is a significant religious symbol that is often inserted in media. Abrams may have put it in without realizing it had already been put into Star Trek.
@@XTINFILM Sure, if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt...
@@shinigamimiroku3723 Look at the use of the black cube in media, and its religious significance. It shows up in a lot of places. I doubt JJ used it because he knows Trek lore, because he doesn't.
What about the Tactical Cube?
Also I remember from the Star Trek Armada game or at least I think it was that... you could combine 8 cubes to form the Tactical cube xD
That was only seen in Armada II, and completely non-canon.
aye the 8 cubes into 1 big one was for sure, but the tactical cube was defiantly in cannon.
*hypercube
Lore Reloaded: It's commonly known as a Borg sphere because of it's wait for it...sphere shape.
Me: (Gasp)
Could the Xindi weapon stop a Borg vessel?
Smart money says yes.. especially a one hit kill
EarthHound yeah even it probably be able to destroy entire unimatrixes
once. Then we get the sneaky, sweaty borg that somehow get in like Zombies at a police station.
Agentflash18462 The key is to have a carousel of lenses so that it rotates modulation as it's firing. Xindi eventually join the Federation so that could be a secret weapon.
@@earthhound well the Superweapon was Bouilt with spherebouilder technology which the xindi don't know how to replicate. However the Superweapon is so strong it may overwhelm the Borg cubes Subspace field
1:02 i think it was the very last episode of voyager in which we learned of a new borg transwarp hub (or whatever it was called) around a wormhole in a nebula... It was even new to Seven of Nine, she was asked by Janeway about it.
So if that hub was pretty new it would explain why they had to come to wolf and sector001 the old fashioned way
That's my understanding of that "plot hole" as well.
On the topic of the Transwarp exit near Earth, I always assumed that the cubes in Wolf 359, and in First Contact, served as 'Road builders'. Each one building the road closer to Earth before being stopped. Once the road was completed, the full federation invasion would occur with the borg fleet being diverted to the task for an efficient minimum amount of time. They won't be wasting it travelling.
Look forward to our next Borg Review
What I wanna know is how come in STO the Spheres give me more trouble than the Cubes, every damn time. Fewer weapons, less armor, yet kicks my ass easily twice if not three times as much. WTF.
That is not how it's been for me.
Brian Webber I’ve had no problem with any Borg ships
Maneuverability maybe? Allowing it to keep more attacks on your weakened shield sections?
The Borg do have big balls after all.
Brian Webber They have an un nerfed version of tachyon beam which wrecks your shields instantly.
Hay, so I was wondering...
Do Borg BUILD Transwarp tunnels or find them?
Given Discovery, I propose that the Borg found the transwarp conduit network. It could have been built by the Precursor race(s).
A mix of both I think. We see in Voy that the transwarp tunnels appear naturally, or at least existed before all modern races. But we also see that the Borg constructed transwarp hubs.
TRUE.....and there was that ONE TNG episode about how ALL life that is bipedal came from a single precursor
It's been my headcanon that the Borg learned about the transwarp tunnels through assimilation of a species that discovered them. Upon assimilating this information, the Borg utilized other technologies they'd assimilated like the adaptive subspace field generators, regenerative capabilities, etc. to stabilize and strengthen the existing transwarp tunnels, then expand the network by creating new tunnels. That's why the Borg had never used the transwarp terminus next to Earth to invade the Federation; that particular tunnel was either newly formed or too unstable to utilize in a full invasion. It's also possible that the chaos and rampant instability throughout the Collective that Admiral Janeway caused when she killed the Queen could have caused the Transwarp Hub to generate a number of accidental tunnels, one of which just happened to lead to the heart of Sector 001, though it's hinted in other episodes of TNG that transwarp tunnels can be altered by craft while they're in transit, so it's also possible that Voyager could have hijacked the Sphere's systems enough to use the tunnel they were in to get home, possibly using some unmentioned FutureTech that Admiral Janeway brought back with her.
It should also be noted that on top of Plot Armour... the Earth kind of has the Q Continuum and its own Future Versions defending itself in the past. With the technology of the 29th Century Federation and 30th Century Federation it would be rather easy to make certain Transwarp Tunnels seem very unstable--or just a very unlucky place to move down. Even more so--since the Q Continuum is not inclined to allow the Borg to have Time Travel abilities.
There is a good chance the whole time that tunnel was there it was understood to be a really really unstable and barely functional tunnel via sabotague from time travelers. Which... that being said... there is a chance that Admiral Janeway kind of nearly doomed Earth when she jumped back to help Voyager--as now the Borg know that Transwarp Tunnel is not "just really really unstable and not working well"
As for the Borg adapting... the Borg needs to know they are having to adapt to something to adapt to it. Though... trickery is somewhat difficult to apply to the Borg consistently.
Borg only needed cubes. The cube is essentially the pinnacle of technology in every way and the Borg were never particularly good at being subtle. It would only make sense if they just used the ship that's better at everything than everything else.
I've always wanted to see a Borg Obelisk!
The diamond in Star Trek Armada was more of a support command ship and if I remember right it was pretty squishy, though it provided lots of buffs to allies and debuffs to enemies.
If my memory still serves, the Queen and Seven had a discussion on how to best stop the attack of an alien race on the shielding of the Diamond, and after a bit of technobabble, the Queen compliments Seven as she does what Seven says and adapts the shielding to counter the attack. So the Diamond does have adaptation capability.
I like the round time traveling version but the Cubes were so cool it became their signature.
Borg have naming systems too complex for our human minds to understand
You have the borg cube
Borg sphere
Borg probe
Borg diamond
Borg queen
Locotus
Tactical cube has always been my fav..
I would have like to see the borg obelisk that was in the early idea for first contact. Or the sphere that had half of it as a dome filled with gas.
How about a Borg monolith, ala 2001?? That would be spooky ...
Politics City, Oooo that would be nice.
You say its a fleet of disappointment and yet the show has never shown what a full scale Borg invasion would look like.
I always thought a borg "diamond" would be cool as the "heart" of a cube. It rolls up to a planet under-assimilation, takes on materials as the assimilation progresses, and eventually out comes a cube.
I think the reason the borg diamond seemed like it was weak or under powered in dark frontier is not because the ship is actually weak but because the Queen wanted to force 7 into a situation where she had to willingly help the collective assimilate a speices. The queen could at any time increase power or adapted or whatever but she wanted manipulate 7 into doing it for her; to show 7 she was, at heart, still borg. The queen made 7 think they were in danger to force seven to choose herself, and by extention the collective, over her human ideals of freedom and morality.
Cubes only. Drones are all interchangeable, so the ships should all be identical
Honestly wish there were more ships. Not just the Cubes when you actually see their fleet. Like there is the single Cubes for the lesser species ( yes that includes humans) that they want to go after. While the fleet full blown drone fighters and such man that would have been nuts. Fun as hell too. The borg in the end were just stupid.
If I remember correctly, the reason the Diamond is considered to be the Queen's personal ship is because when it departs Unimatrix 01 the Queen, Seven, and all the attending Borg drones did not need to move from the room or facility where the Queen was already operating from. She just tilted her head and her whole command area and sex dungeon chassis (circular frame where she keeps her body parts and prisoners) departed from the Unimatrix. This implies that her entire command center inside the Unimatrix is actually this particular Diamond ship. Therefore it would be HER command ship as Memory Alpha claims.
Scary Terry: "You can run, but you can't hide, bi%#$!"
Morty: "I don't think either of those things are true."
The idea that the Borg probe and sphere don't have the subspace EM adaptive shielding is... challengeable. Most Starfleet vessels produced after the first encounter with the Borg were given modulated phasers, so it's likely the classic Borg adaptability still existed but was defeated by Starfleet ingenuity. The rifles not being able to adapt as well (seen in First Contact) is likely due to the constraints of a smaller, non-ship weapons system.
After all, if an individual drone can have this technology there's no reason every Borg ship wouldn't have it as well.
What about the ship seven of nine came from, it’s not as big as a sphere, or cube but it’s not the probe or the “queens” vessel? What would that one be called ?
i think that they would have been better as just the borg cubes, as it fits their whole uniformity thing. also it would have distingrished them from the other races, who all have several different ships.
Yeah - even if they had to include smaller cubes for plot element reasons - an all cube Borg fleet just seems, so....Borg....
You know when Lore Reloaded mention about the transwarp conduit near Earth that we see at end of Voyager, I'm thinking about back to near the end of Best of Both Worlds episode in TNG. We see the cube in orbit around Earth but no yet attacking. Got me thinking. What if the cube was there to setup a transwarp "access point" so the collective have an easy way to get to Earth, but was not ,mentioned till after First Contact due to writing...
I think it’s much more reasonable to assume the Borg build ships to specific needs in highly modular but generic shapes. And I would hope at some point canonically this will be retcon explanation. It would explain the vastly different capabilities of each ship and even the size inconsistencies. As there seems to be at least 3 distinct sizes of cubes and two of spheres. I also like the subjection some Borg ships are built out from bases of assimilated ships. And thus maybe some older vessels are larger than newer ones etc. It would also fit the ethos of the collective. As ships would probably be retrofitted and grow to tackle new threats.
I would like to see a video on how the Borg episode of enterprise just stopped with them leaving earth. How was no further problems with the wreackadge.
Resistance is futile,you will be assimilated, & the lazy writers will win any day of the week...
Was everything after the cube just a downgrade? Like I can see the orb as a last ditch escape pod, and the probe as a throwaway unit to map unexplored areas, but the diamond? Did something happen to render the cubes defenses irrelevant or inefficient?
The Borg Twinki should have been the most commonly seen borg vessel in Voyager, what with being on par with an Intrepid class ship, and the Borg being busy with the species 8472 war
YOU FORGOT THE EPISODE
UNIMATRIX ZERO pt 2
GENERAL KOROK
Andrew Blanchard i mentioned that in a comment
Also forgot VOY 502 "Drone" & 619 "Child's Play"
Rory Sedar
Thank you
There was also a TNG episode where the Enterprise (galaxy class) tested out their new shielding system while hiding in the outer part of a sun, while a rogue Borg vessel was in system - had an unique shape, almost like an L.
I'd like to see a set of polyhedral dice modeled after Borg ships
Since you're doing Beta-Canon, maybe the Pyramid, Assimilator, Tactical Cube and Fusion Cube?
As a patron i don like pointing things missed a few spheres Voyager encountered. Episodes 'One', 'Child's Play', 'Unimatrix Zero'. Please note these are off the top of my head.
Noticed the st armada reference XD
In TNG they sent a virus into the Borg collective, so maybe that's why the Borg became so weak. 90% of their run time was being devoted to stopping the virus and they needed to create a Queen to keep it in check.
They never used that virus, though. By the end of the episode, Picard realized that using such a weapon was unethical and instead opted to use Hugh's newfound sense of individuality against the Collective, hoping that would spread and allow the drones to think for themselves, but that didn't go so well when the Borg sundered the affected ship and they became Lore's rogue Borg army in Descent.
Ah, right. I had forgotten they hadn't actually used it. There goes my theory.
Funny how they never used any of the weapons they discussed on the Enterprise before Wolf 359? There was talk of a nanite weapon, the deflector weapon was used, etc. I would have thought all those weaponry would have been available at Sector 001 battle? You would also think with all the alien technologies and weapons that the Enterprise ever encountered, they could have incorporated some of those into their anti-Borg initiatives?
Liked the video, love your channel! One small point: it's 'weaponRY' not weapondry or weapontry or whatever it is you say in every episode haha :P Keep up the good work!
Where did you get the info on the kelvin time line Borg.
Found it in memory alpha confirmed it via the comic it was sourced
What about the ships the Borg that were following Lore used?
idk if anyone else said this but in the episode were they free the borg from unimatrix 0 their was a borg sphere that help voyager attack the tacticle cube
You forgot the Tactical Cube. You know, the one thats a billion times more badass than a standard cube with like half a kilometer thick armor plates, which after 5 minutes of fighting doesnt even manage to disable a meager intrepid class ship.
Tactical Cubes are actually a bit smaller than a regular Cube, they still do have better defense systems however
I always thought every borg ship would be a cube and they got bigger the more they assimilated.
What a Hexagon frame sphere of the fort Knox Heist? Or Tactical Sphere? ( Also I've heard of a book on the New Co. Alishion ( Or the New Collective ; that Comander Cha' koata encountered. . ) WHAT happened to them? )
I am on board with cubes and spheres but not keen on the other stuff. Only because I feel like the other ships sorta detracted from the Borg as a whole. If they wanted the Borg to have smaller ships the Borg could have converted shuttles and the like but they would still have regenerative abilities because the Borg should be a threat. The Borg got neutered in Voyager and First Contact.
I’m glad that you call trek out on stupid lazy inconsistencies.
i think the smaller vassels dosent have adaption field because they cant tage hits as well. i mean da borg cube needs so be shoot multiple times but a scout not
well i believe the borg ships alter their configuration based on need, so they can take what ever shape they need to, it is just that cubes work out well for some reason. this means that no ship is the same as another despite any sort of visual similarities.
I was watching TNG the other day, I got to relics and it got me thinking
Dyson Spheres can exist in Star Trek.
Borg love efficiency
Dyson Spheres are very efficient for storage of drones materials, ect.
Dyson Spheres can be moved, without impulse engines or warp drive, just open one section, and boom you're moving the other way.
Why don't the borg make these massive Dyson Spheres that hop from solar system to solar system assimilating all civilizations they find, and building another sphere out of the star (assuming its G type or better)
Well, the resource constraints are huge and time necessary to build a Dyson sphere is VERY VERY VERY long. It might be something the Borg might attempt over time, or assimilate from an alien race. But considering they are either always attacking or being attacked, building such a huge undertaking might be counter-productive - they could build entire Borg fleets from the resources necessary to build a Dyson sphere.
I can see the Borg assimilating one or more and using it as part of their infrastructure, but not them actually building any.
what about the borg tactical cube seen in voyager?
The different types of ships makes logical sense because the cubes are powerful but stand out while the spheres are less so the real problem is the inconsistent writing or lack of detail on certain subjects.
I think the type 3 ship is a work in progress. made from scratch and salvaged or assimilated parts.
Someone mentioned Tactical Spheres. It would have been cool if there were no cubes, just Tactical Spheres and small Scout Spheres that could be inside them. Maybe something like Doctor Who where the smaller Spheres reside inside a larger one, but multiple because the others materialize into regular space right before shooting out. It would be cool to see a few Tactical Sphere surround a task force and then shoot out a ton of small Spheres and overwhelm almost any size fleet.
death by thousand cuts, a swarm over a sledgehammer. interesting
I forget which episode it was in, (it was in Voyager, I am pretty sure), but there was a tactical cube, that I think LR missed.
Update: It was in Unamatrix Zero
memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_tactical_cube
Politics City I believe in another comment he mentions that this ship is worthy of its own video
3:07 Borg Breadcrumb =D =D
Well to be fair the borg cube in first contact seemed to be damaged and I’m pretty sure the borg were playing possum to beam on board the enterprise, I don’t think 4 quantum torpedos would be enough to destroy it that quick. Maybe they triggered a self destruct to coincide with the definition of the quantum’s ? And the enterprise crew would never know because their sensors were down anyway, plus they had main character torpedos as well.
One theory that, as I recall, you proposed was that most Borg ships were built upon assimilated ships. If we take that theory, I would postulate that the Borg probe, sphere, and cubes were various stages of completion. Shaped into these different classes to fill different roles during the process. The cube being the perfected form. As for the Borg diamond... I suspect that was the original Borg ship design, after they became a space farring race and began the construction of Unimatrix 01. Perhaps even with the Queen's diamond being the heart of the Unimatrix. She did mention disembodiment as being the epitome of perfection. As well as calling Picard small for thinking in three dimensional terms. Hm... Just theory. For fun. For one of the greatest syfy shows of all time.
That could be because she views herself in god-like terms - see everything, be everywhere and know everything through the many tendrils of the Collective. Regarding the Diamond, I see it as the internal superstructure of the Cube, if nothing else. Add a Sphere on the inside, and maybe a probe, then build a cube-like outer shell around it all?
Maybe a Borg Cube is the result of a smaller Borg vessel (maybe a sphere) having accumulated alot of destroyed/assimilated ships?
The sphere is my fav
Keep in mind, before we even meet up with the Borg in Voyager, Red from That 70s Show was kind of firing a time canon at shit in an attempt to relive nostalgia. While that time canon nonsense did end up with having things fairly similar to how it looked when stuff started... it was not 100% similar.
There is a good chance that the Borg were either not shielded properly from the temporal damage... or one of the species they fought and failed to assimilate were greatly affected. If that species had the right shit going on, it could have hit them indirectly around the temporal shields.
As per the Borg's time travel abilities... they have not been okayed to ever time travel... so this means they probably are not going to ever be able to do it in any proper manner. The few times they've been able to do it--they had humans nearby and assimilated.
they should have expanded on the ships making them multifunctional. The Borg ships were very powerful.
Borg Pentagon!
The Transwarp Hub that had an opening near Earth was still under construction during the Battle of Sector 001 genius.
There ya go
What are all the borg vessel types
What about the Borg vessel that lore took over in TNG, Descent?
cube only, then they could stack em in a giant wall and form tertris
The Borg are humanities and the Federations only hope! And the Romulans, Klingons, and Dominion. With the Borg they can all live in peace. Only the Borg can achieve this.
Actually in the Dark frontier episode they have remodulated their shields from what i know borg refer to shields but in reality they dont use deflector shields but the subspace fields - after that the enemy weapons fire was no longer a threat - so the Diamond indeed had the ability to adapt.
Also for the Diamond vessel being in danger- i would imagine that was actually a plot device - queen wanted Seven to take action - to be again a villing participant in the events - So she could study her respones and thoughts - So placing the vessel in danger (or at least to make it apear so) it was just a way for the Queen to force seven to be an active actor instead of being just the observer. You can tell that was the case because the Queen had already a solution ready - but she was waiting to see if seven would cooperate -and if she was actually trying to be truthfull about it.
They start using shielding in Voyager..when or how they made that change or if it works in tandem is never made clear
@@LoreReloaded Ah cool - Dang now i have the temptation to rewatch all of the Borg episodes all over again xD
ps i apreciate the reply Cheers o/
No comments on the possible Borg origins of the V'ger ship from TMP? I know STO uses said ships as the Unimatrix Command Ship.
There are some Borg origins video on TH-cam, but it's kinda sketchy. There was a book that introduced the original Borg race, that somehow got sent back in time, and then of how they 'merge' with the Borg and stop the Borg from being such a destructive force in the galaxy in the current Fed timeline, but it's not decent, in my opinion for such a great enemy.
I think we need a star trek show r mini series that focuses on each of the "villains" or unflushed races of the universe. It can be through the eyes of a borg queen or of a drone that is given sentience in order to document all knowledge of the collective in a easy to understand video format (i know it wouldn't be like this but im a Borg freek i love the race and would love a mini series on them even though there evil)
There are several stories with characters who were never explored again, so it would make sense to base stories around such characters. Picard's love interests for example, some Klingons, some Romulans, some Vulcans, what happened with that individuality in the Borg arc, holographic sentience, a Data on every starship idea, etc. I mean, if fan productions can focus on other starships, surely such a series can focus on the Federation institutions and power relations with other empires, right? ;)
Totally Agreed
I do think that Borg need support vessels but they seriously need to rethink some of their designs
Borg Spheres ought to be the next deadliest Borg enemy ship next to those Cube Battleships.. BUT then again the Sovereign near as i can tell are basically Human equals to Super Battleships or Dreadnaughts so guess it would have the heavy firepower needed to seriously make any random Borg rethink trying to fight one.
The Borg had the tech level to make even formidable ships as small as fighter craft if they really wanted too. Not sure why all we've ever really seen are Spheres, Cubes, some Diamonds, an i even saw a Borg "scout" Rectangle/Box once... Dunno what their geometric shape fetish is about...
Maybe left over from their origins.
Maybe we'll see some "Pyramid" or "Octagon" shaped new super cruiser carrier thing somewhere some day.
*shrug* who knows
The cubes should be the only representation of the Borg as they are feared by all that oppose them (except species 8472). For the Borg to be represented by any other ship is like the Empire without Star Destroyers.
In star trek online, all races have three tiers of main line ships. As a result, while in the shows it is tantamount to a intrepid class, in star trek online it compares to the NX-01, oberth, Miranda, or b'rel. I suppose all those ships got 'minor refits'.
I think it was ok to flesh them out. I mean, Voyager was about the Delta Quadrant and the Borg were a Delta Quadrant enemy.
That said, Voyager did a bad job fleshing out the Borg. Granted, Seven is my favorite Voyager character (the Doctor is a close second and everyone else is whatever) but other than her, there really wasn’t much payoff for the Borg. They would probably have been a better addition for a final season where they have to push through Borg territory before they steal the secret to get home.
I thought there was a borg sphere when 7 of 9 mixed nanoprobes with the doc badge